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Matter.
09-07-2014, 11:29 AM
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
Owner Bruce Levenson will sell the Atlanta Hawks after revelation of a 2012 racist email, NBA commissioner Adam Silver announces.

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA · 4m
There was meeting in NYC including NBA owners late last week discussing issue, sources told Yahoo. Levenson agreed to sell, Silver says.

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
Levenson released statement, outlining details of 2012 email and an apology. "I trivialized our fans by making cliched assumptions…"

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA · 22s
Levenson (cont) "…about their interests (i.e. hip hop vs country, white vs. black cheerleaders, etc.) and stereotyping their perceptions…"

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA · 1m
Levenson (cont) "…of one another (i.e. white fans might be afraid of our black fans…If you're angry about what I wrote, you should be."

KnicksYanks
09-07-2014, 11:30 AM
Wow

flea
09-07-2014, 11:31 AM
Burn him at the stake!!!!!!!!!

ManRam
09-07-2014, 11:39 AM
Per Ziller, he is one of 7 co-owners and this probably has zero implications in regards to relocation.

Also, for those who feel the NBA is so nefarious, secretive and potentially manipulative even, they came out with the truth here without being provoked to, as opposed to having him quietly selling his shares.

Dade County
09-07-2014, 11:49 AM
This is getting ridicules now.

torocan
09-07-2014, 11:50 AM
One of 7 co-owners... I'm guessing that the way this is going down without a fuss that it wasn't just the other NBA owners, but probably his partners that had a few words with him.

Definitely a different standard than how the NFL is handling their stuff.

lamzoka
09-07-2014, 11:50 AM
I wonder if donald sterling have something to do with this

lamzoka
09-07-2014, 11:52 AM
This is getting ridicules now.
what's getting ridiculous? the fact that he's racist or the fact that he's selling?

torocan
09-07-2014, 11:52 AM
I wonder if donald sterling have something to do with this

It wouldn't be completely surprising. Remember that Sterling is still looking to sue the NBA in civil court. If the NBA wants to argue that they're not holding Sterling to a double standard, then they need to treat all such cases with the same gravity.

With the sale from the Hawks, the NBA can simply point to the Hawks and say that they weren't targeting Sterling specifically, but adhering to a general code of conduct.

JustinTime
09-07-2014, 11:57 AM
Move them to Vancouver

hugepatsfan
09-07-2014, 11:57 AM
Curious about what he said in the full e-mail. The music stuff doesn't seem racist at all to me. You can't go around and ask every fan what type of music they like so you do have to use some demographics in marketing. The stuff about white people being afraid of black people is pretty racist, but really more so against whites than blacks IMO. Unless of course he's implying that there's a reason for white people to be afraid of blacks.

JustinTime
09-07-2014, 11:59 AM
I think you'll find that there are a lot of owners like this out there. NBA is way for rich white people to reinforce their families past traditions.

lamzoka
09-07-2014, 11:59 AM
It wouldn't be completely surprising. Remember that Sterling is still looking to sue the NBA in civil court. If the NBA wants to argue that they're not holding Sterling to a double standard, then they need to treat all such cases with the same gravity.

With the sale from the Hawks, the NBA can simply point to the Hawks and say that they weren't targeting Sterling specifically, but adhering to a general code of conduct.

Exactly.

Mind u Sterling hired some private investigators to dig in dirt from the NBA. Why would he randomly snitched on himself because of an email he wrote 2 years ago.

torocan
09-07-2014, 12:02 PM
Here is the actual e-mail :


From: Bruce Levenson

To: Ferry, Danny

CC: Foreman, Todd (ucg.com); Peskowitz, Ed (ucg.com)

Sent: 8/25/2012 11:47:02 PM

Subject: Re: Business/Game ops

1. from day one i have been impressed with the friendliness and professionalism of the arena staff — food vendors, ushers, ticket takers, etc. in our early years when i would bring folks from dc they were blown away by the contrast between abe pollin’s arena and philips. some of this is attributable to southern hospital and manners but bob and his staff do a good job of training. To this day, I can not get the ushers to call me Bruce yet they insist on me calling them by their first names.

2. the non-premium area food is better than most arenas, though that is not saying much. i think there is room for improvement and creativity. Levy is our food vendor so we don’t have much control but they have been good partners. i have wished we had some inconic offereing like boog’s barbeque at the baseball stadium in balt.

3. our new restaurant, red, just opened so too early for me to give you my thoughts.

4. Regarding game ops, i need to start with some background. for the first couple of years we owned the team, i didn’t much focus on game ops. then one day a light bulb went off. when digging into why our season ticket base is so small, i was told it is because we can’t get 35-55 white males and corporations to buy season tixs and they are the primary demo for season tickets around the league. when i pushed further, folks generally shrugged their shoulders. then i start looking around our arena during games and notice the following:

— it’s 70 pct black

— the cheerleaders are black

— the music is hip hop

— at the bars it’s 90 pct black

— there are few fathers and sons at the games

— we are doing after game concerts to attract more fans and the concerts are either hip hop or gospel.

Then i start looking around at other arenas. It is completely different. Even DC with its affluent black community never has more than 15 pct black audience.

Before we bought the hawks and for those couple years immediately after in an effort to make the arena look full (at the nba’s urging) thousands and thousands of tickets were being giving away, predominantly in the black community, adding to the overwhelming black audience.

My theory is that the black crowd scared away the whites and there are simply not enough affluent black fans to build a signficant season ticket base. Please dont get me wrong. There was nothing threatening going on in the arean back then. i never felt uncomfortable, but i think southern whites simply were not comfortable being in an arena or at a bar where they were in the minority. On fan sites i would read comments about how dangerous it is around philips yet in our 9 years, i don’t know of a mugging or even a pick pocket incident. This was just racist garbage. When I hear some people saying the arena is in the wrong place I think it is code for there are too many blacks at the games.

I have been open with our executive team about these concerns. I have told them I want some white cheerleaders and while i don’t care what the color of the artist is, i want the music to be music familiar to a 40 year old white guy if that’s our season tixs demo. i have also balked when every fan picked out of crowd to shoot shots in some time out contest is black. I have even *****ed that the kiss cam is too black.

Gradually things have changed. My unscientific guess is that our crowd is 40 pct black now, still four to five times all other teams. And my further guess is that 40 pct still feels like 70 pet to some whites at our games. Our bars are still overwhelmingly black.

This is obviously a sensitive topic, but sadly i think it is far and way the number one reason our season ticket base is so low.

And many of our black fans don’t have the spendable income which explains why our f&b and merchandise sales are so low. At all white thrasher games sales were nearly triple what they are at hawks games (the extra intermission explains some of that but not all).

Regardless of what time a game starts, we have the latest arriving crowd in the league. It often looks and sounds empty when the team takes the floor.

In the past two years, we have created a section of rowdy college students that has been a big plus. And we do a lot of very clever stuff during time outs to entertain the crowd. Our kiss cam is better done than any in the league.

We have all the same halftime acts that other arenas have but i question whether they make sense. people are on their cell phones during half time. i wonder if flashing on the scoreboard “$2 off on hot dogs during halftime tonight” just as the half ends would be a better use of our halftime dollars and make the fans happier.

We do all the usual giveways and the fans are usually their loudest when our spirit crew takes the floor to give away t-shirts. It pisses me off that they will yell louder for a t-shirt then for our players.

Our player intro is flat. We manufacture a lot of noise but because of the late arriving crowd and the fact that a lot of blacks dont seem to go as crazy cheering (another one of my theories) as whites, it is not great. Even when we have just returned from winnng four straight on the road, i am one of the few people in the arena standing and cheering when our team takes the floor. Bob has kicked around ideas like having the starters coming down aisles rather than off the bench during intros. Sounds cool but may highlight all the empty seats at the start of games.

Not enough of our fans wear hawks jerseys to games. i have just begun to push for ideas like discount food lines for folks wearing jerseys, special entrances, etc. I think we need a committed and perhaps incentivized fan club. We need to realize atl is simply different than every other city. Just adopting nba best practices is not enough. we have to create our own.

I am rambling and could probably go on forever. If you have any specific areas you would like my thoughts on, let me know.

Best,

Bruce

ps — I have cc’d todd and ed so they can chime in with additional or different thoughts.

http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/basketball/complete-e-mail-sent-by-levenson/nhHbD/

JustinTime
09-07-2014, 12:02 PM
Curious about what he said in the full e-mail. The music stuff doesn't seem racist at all to me. You can't go around and ask every fan what type of music they like so you do have to use some demographics in marketing. The stuff about white people being afraid of black people is pretty racist, but really more so against whites than blacks IMO. Unless of course he's implying that there's a reason for white people to be afraid of blacks.

If white people are afraid of blacks it's because of the media. I don't live in the US but I do see a lot of American media and especially in the US they tend to make blacks look like some evil race when the reality is there are ****ty people in all races.

torocan
09-07-2014, 12:07 PM
My thoughts on the e-mail... not overt racism as opposed to the more subtle and entrenched forms of racism, stereotyping and profiling that you see take place in the corporate world.

While not as in your face as Archie Bunker, in many ways it's probably more insidious as you're targeting racial groups for preference while trying to force a demographic change in the pursuit of the dollar.

It's unfortunate, but this type of racial bias is much, much harder to not only spot but to deter as it tends to take place in the quiet back rooms of the corporate suite.

KingPosey
09-07-2014, 12:10 PM
He saw the clippers go for a bazillion dollars and wanted in on that inflated price tag sales game.

lamzoka
09-07-2014, 12:12 PM
"Less Blacks, More Whites" -Hawks Owner-

Phenomenonsense
09-07-2014, 12:14 PM
Per Ziller, he is one of 7 co-owners and this probably has zero implications in regards to relocation.

Also, for those who feel the NBA is so nefarious, secretive and potentially manipulative even, they came out with the truth here without being provoked to, as opposed to having him quietly selling his shares.

How in the world does that not make them manipulative? If anything it makes future manipulations more likely to succeed. If it is something they do not care about losing, especially in light of such a ridiculous scandal months before, acting in this way can easily be a maneuver to seem trustworthy.

Not that I have an opinion on the NBA being manipulative. I would be hard-pressed to name a company that wasn't manipulative, honestly, so the NBA is average at worst.

bulldog312
09-07-2014, 12:23 PM
Crucify me if you want, but I have 0 problem with that email. Not even a little bit. He's identified a business problem with the business end of his team and is taking steps to correct it. He has data that identifies a demographic that is most likely to buy season tickets and he is trying to appeal to that demographic. IMO that's good business. Every single good business owner uses demographic data like that.

I'm sick of skin color being such a damn sensitive topic. Believe it or not black culture is different than white culture, and we shouldn't expect business owners to ignore that. Why is nobody complaining about ageism because he is trying to appeal to ages 35-55. Must mean he clearly hates teenagers right? He also says he's trying to appeal to males as well. Such a sexist email. Probably beats his wife when he goes home too. Get him out of the league. SMDH...

ManRam
09-07-2014, 12:23 PM
How in the world does that not make them manipulative? If anything it makes future manipulations more likely to succeed. If it is something they do not care about losing, especially in light of such a ridiculous scandal months before, acting in this way can easily be a maneuver to seem trustworthy.

Not that I have an opinion on the NBA being manipulative. I would be hard-pressed to name a company that wasn't manipulative, honestly, so the NBA is average at worst.

I'm talking about fixing games and rigging things. They disclosed all the info as opposed to trying to brush it under the table. That's all. They might have been able to facilitate a quiet selling of his shares and try to keep it a secret. That's it. There are no competitive ramifications of this either; it's neither going to hurt nor help the Hawks.


Also, I don't quite think that email is sell-worthy. It's sad that so many whites in the south act the way they do, to the extent that an owner would have to worry about things like this, but I think it was mostly a poor usage of words as opposed to outright bigotry and racism. It's mostly still just sad that they have to consider that type of marketing plan in the first place. However, it does come off as him chasing away blacks for the sole purpose of bringing in more whites...and all just for the $$$$$$$$$$$. That's not necessarily a good thing, especially for the NBA's image.


But whatever. Dude is about to get paid.

curtcocaine
09-07-2014, 12:24 PM
If white people are afraid of blacks it's because of the media. I don't live in the US but I do see a lot of American media and especially in the US they tend to make blacks look like some evil race when the reality is there are ****ty people in all races.

This im black. Nobody knows that every year I go to the Christian help center to help feed the homless. No one knows that every year my wife and I go get 1 homless person a gift every year. The media portrays us in such a negative manner its sicking.

Just the other day I was pulled over and handcuffed for having an air freshener hanging on my rear view mirror. WTF. im not saying that every black person is innocent. But for some reason I get the notion that we are often considered guilty until proven other wise.

Not to long ago one if my childhood friend ( Mario Rameoro) was murdered in cold blood by a police officer (D Joseph) it was about 2 in the morning he was in his car in his drive way. The police officer jumped on the hood of his car and filled his car with over 30 rounds.


What was there excuses? He had a pellet gun. Im not saying gs was the most innocent peeson id be lying. But if the had better training my friend he'd still be here and I woulndt have this momeral covering my right forearm,

I wish this had media coverage rather than mike brown who I show no sympathy for. I belive in karma. Shoundt have been out there doing dirt. Sooner are later your gonna get coverd in it.

ManRam
09-07-2014, 12:27 PM
In the end, the guy snitched on his own damn self. Either had a guilty conscience or he just really wanted to sell. Either way, I don't think this is that huge of an issue. Sounds like a mutual agreement to part ways...and doesn't have too many parallels to the Sterling debacle.

curtcocaine
09-07-2014, 12:28 PM
Whats black culture? I know pleanty white people by media standards actcway more black than I. I work 6 says a week 11 hour shifts never been to jail. The only knock I give myself is not taking my education futher.

jimm120
09-07-2014, 12:35 PM
is it a racist email?

You're looking at your demographic. You're looking at your stereotypes. You're looking at what's at your game.

Your job is to analyze the landscape and attract more people. None of those things seemed racist.

That said, he might just want to sell his $450 million dollar business for $1 billion instead of $600 which he would have sold it for.

flea
09-07-2014, 12:38 PM
I've been to Hawks games at Phillips and what he's saying isn't wrong. Attendance is very poor and the whole time it's loud hip-hop and other spectacles clearly meant to appeal to a demographic other than middle-aged whites. I don't really see that as an objectionable observation - it's just the way it is. He was also speculating on why concession sales are in the toilet along with attendance.

Again, not sure I'm seeing anything offensive but I guess this is 2014 and if you ever talk about race it better be in an ultra-apologetic way or someone is coming after your shirt. I'm sure this was Dr. King's dream: everyone so afraid to talk about racial disparities that we finally need racial rioting again to bring attention to certain racial divides.

lamzoka
09-07-2014, 12:42 PM
Crucify me if you want, but I have 0 problem with that email. Not even a little bit. He's identified a business problem with the business end of his team and is taking steps to correct it. He has data that identifies a demographic that is most likely to buy season tickets and he is trying to appeal to that demographic. IMO that's good business. Every single good business owner uses demographic data like that.

I'm sick of skin color being such a damn sensitive topic. Believe it or not black culture is different than white culture, and we shouldn't expect business owners to ignore that. Why is nobody complaining about ageism because he is trying to appeal to ages 35-55. Must mean he clearly hates teenagers right? He also says he's trying to appeal to males as well. Such a sexist email. Probably beats his wife when he goes home too. Get him out of the league. SMDH...


Easy fix.
Build an all white team and see how many blacks will show up to games.

jimm120
09-07-2014, 12:43 PM
I'd understand if the notion is to get "black people out"...but its not. The intended analysis is to attract more people that will spend more.

This feels too much like an owner wanting to get more money than he would have gotten.

Actual Price: $450 million
Sell Price: Probably around $600 million
Sell Price with "racism scandal": $900-$1 billion

They saw that Clips went :

Actual Price: $600
Sell price probably: $900-1.1 billion
Sell Price with "Racism Scandal": $2 billion


They saw that, and thought that hey, I can sell well.

Just like the Brooklyn Nets owner kinda looked into selling too. Just WAYYYYY too much money and an increase.

bulldog312
09-07-2014, 12:48 PM
Whats black culture? I know pleanty white people by media standards actcway more black than I. I work 6 says a week 11 hour shifts never been to jail. The only knock I give myself is not taking my education futher.

I'm not saying every black acts the same way or every white does. But the black demographic, as a group, is significantly different than the white demographic, as a group. I'm not trying to say that it is better or worse, just different. The owner has data that says the white, male, 35-55 demographic is more likely to buy season tickets than any other demographic, and he's trying to appeal to them to get their business. This has nothing to do with anything other than that.

MrfadeawayJB
09-07-2014, 12:52 PM
Crucify me if you want, but I have 0 problem with that email. Not even a little bit. He's identified a business problem with the business end of his team and is taking steps to correct it. He has data that identifies a demographic that is most likely to buy season tickets and he is trying to appeal to that demographic. IMO that's good business. Every single good business owner uses demographic data like that.

I'm sick of skin color being such a damn sensitive topic. Believe it or not black culture is different than white culture, and we shouldn't expect business owners to ignore that. Why is nobody complaining about ageism because he is trying to appeal to ages 35-55. Must mean he clearly hates teenagers right? He also says he's trying to appeal to males as well. Such a sexist email. Probably beats his wife when he goes home too. Get him out of the league. SMDH...


Easy fix.
Build an all white team and see how many blacks will show up to games.

Twolves did it

MrfadeawayJB
09-07-2014, 12:55 PM
Not as bad as I thought it would be. A few questionable statements but not worthy of guilted into selling. But, as others said, he prob wants to cash out. The NBA was pressuring him to sell because they need to come down hard on owners so they have a case against sterling when he takes the NBA to court

Clippersfan86
09-07-2014, 12:55 PM
As others said this isn't really racist so much as he's a bigot. I also agree with most of you that the dude leaked this himself and snitched on himself after he saw the payday Sterling got with the drama of the Clippers. This guy stereotyped, but it was more from the perspective of how he believes the FANS feel, more than himself.

JasonJohnHorn
09-07-2014, 01:06 PM
Perhaps he's hoping it pays as well to be racist as it did for Sterling.

This stuff is offensive, but it isn't nearly as offensive as what came out of Sterling's mouth. This just sounds like a businessman relying on stats to increase profits, which isn't to say that it isn't prejudicial, just that the motivation is different.

Either way, not cool. But at least the guy was honest about it and took responsibility for his words.

Clippersfan86
09-07-2014, 01:17 PM
Good choice of words Jason. I'd call him prejudice or ignorant long before racist.

NYKalltheway
09-07-2014, 01:19 PM
It's not really racism but the loose translation is "less blacks, more whites please" which is clearly a racist message.

What surprised me mostly was the comment about fan noise.... That was the most bizarre statement in the letter imo which has absolutely no basis.

Vinylman
09-07-2014, 01:21 PM
People are such dopes...

This is nothing more than an owner throwing in the towel because he can't change the business model...

Another case where a local market can't support a business unless it is subsidized.

The overpay on this franchise will be minor due to the realities laid out in the email

Vinylman
09-07-2014, 01:25 PM
It's not really racism but the loose translation is "less blacks, more whites please" which is clearly a racist message.

What surprised me mostly was the comment about fan noise.... That was the most bizarre statement in the letter imo which has absolutely no basis.

not really... if you read his email he talks about wealthy blacks in DC... It is obvious he doesn't really care about skin color as long as you have money...

he would have wrote the same email if it was poor white trash rednecks that couldn't get him the proper revenue mix...

Clippersfan86
09-07-2014, 01:27 PM
not really... if you read his email he talks about wealthy blacks in DC... It is obvious he doesn't really care about skin color as long as you have money...

he would have wrote the same email if it was poor white trash rednecks that couldn't get him the proper revenue mix...

That was something I said on a FB group too. I think the issue is entirely about the green, not the black or white. If the only fans buying ST's and spending money were blacks and the whites as you said were the poor trash, he would of likely stereotyped them too. Doesn't seem like a truly racist guy.

bulldog312
09-07-2014, 01:30 PM
Good choice of words Jason. I'd call him prejudice or ignorant long before racist.

prejudice - preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

Everything he said was based on reason or actual experience. The letter isn't racist or prejudiced. Just because it makes blacks look bad because it says they make less money doesn't make it racist, prejudiced, or anything like that. Whites DO make more than blacks. I don't have Atlanta specific data, but a quick google search tells me the average white household income is $22,000 more than the average black household income. It's facts.

As a side note, the Asian household income is actually higher than whites. What if he was trying to attract asians to the stadium for the same reasons? Would we be discussing this at all? What if he was trying to bring in females to expand the demographics. What if a team was trying to diversify and trying to bring in more black fans and everything in this email was reversed. Would it be an issue at all? I'm guessing no.

NYKalltheway
09-07-2014, 01:32 PM
not really... if you read his email he talks about wealthy blacks in DC... It is obvious he doesn't really care about skin color as long as you have money...

he would have wrote the same email if it was poor white trash rednecks that couldn't get him the proper revenue mix...


Yes it's obviously about the money but I think he infers that the population of blacks in Atlanta are not as wealthy as the whites, so he wants to market for the whites. If the demographics agree with him, then it's just a call to shift in their business strategy. But what he actually says is that he feels that the southern white people don't feel comfortable in situations where they're not the majority, hence the Hawks need to find a way to make the whites the majority*. That's why I said the loose translation was that ;)


*as he says: they spend more, they go to the arena on time and they are louder... You can't argue in favor of the last two no matter what imo. The first can be refuted or verified with statistics.

Vinylman
09-07-2014, 01:35 PM
That was something I said on a FB group too. I think the issue is entirely about the green, not the black or white. If the only fans buying ST's and spending money were blacks and the whites as you said were the poor trash, he would of likely stereotyped them too. Doesn't seem like a truly racist guy.

it is obvious he turned himself in so he could control the narrative... no one will really spend much time on this since he has relinquished control...

nor does the nba really care because they are all about making money at the expense of the average fan.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 01:36 PM
I think you'll find that there are a lot of owners like this out there. NBA is way for rich white people to reinforce their families past traditions.

wow, that was pretty racist right there. Unless you're joking

Chronz
09-07-2014, 01:37 PM
Sounds like he thinks the target audience he wants have prejudices against minorities. I guess thats racist.... I honestly dont know anymore.... Sterling had to go tho

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 01:39 PM
If white people are afraid of blacks it's because of the media. I don't live in the US but I do see a lot of American media and especially in the US they tend to make blacks look like some evil race when the reality is there are ****ty people in all races.

I'm pretty sure alot of that is taken out of context and I would like to see the full email and even then I'm not going to judge someone off an email like this. People need to learn the difference between racism and just saying stuff. The guy could be joking. I mean didn't SNL used to make tons of skits like this even back when Chris Rock and others were on there?

JustinTime
09-07-2014, 01:42 PM
wow, that was pretty racist right there. Unless you're joking

It's OK I'm white. I wasn't putting down white people anyways I was putting down a certain type that like to relive their families history of slavery like Sterling.

Vinylman
09-07-2014, 01:43 PM
Yes it's obviously about the money but I think he infers that the population of blacks in Atlanta are not as wealthy as the whites, so he wants to market for the whites. If the demographics agree with him, then it's just a call to shift in their business strategy. But what he actually says is that he feels that the southern white people don't feel comfortable in situations where they're not the majority, hence the Hawks need to find a way to make the whites the majority*. That's why I said the loose translation was that ;)


*as he says: they spend more, they go to the arena on time and they are louder... You can't argue in favor of the last two no matter what imo. The first can be refuted or verified with statistics.

they are ... its a fact and not debatable

you also misunderstand his point on southern whites... is it ignorant to not associate with blacks just based on the color of their skin? of course it is .... but that ignorance is also a fact that has been shown in study after study.

Again, he has an investment that he is trying to maximize... that strategy will always leave the poor behind... whether white black green purple ....

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 01:43 PM
prejudice - preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

Everything he said was based on reason or actual experience. The letter isn't racist or prejudiced. Just because it makes blacks look bad because it says they make less money doesn't make it racist, prejudiced, or anything like that. Whites DO make more than blacks. I don't have Atlanta specific data, but a quick google search tells me the average white household income is $22,000 more than the average black household income. It's facts.

As a side note, the Asian household income is actually higher than whites. What if he was trying to attract asians to the stadium for the same reasons? Would we be discussing this at all? What if he was trying to bring in females to expand the demographics. What if a team was trying to diversify and trying to bring in more black fans and everything in this email was reversed. Would it be an issue at all? I'm guessing no.


agreed

IndyRealist
09-07-2014, 01:44 PM
While there is certainly racism in the email (black people can't afford to buy merchandise, etc.) the motive of the email is being misinterpreted. The point was NOT to say, "we need less black people at games", it was to say, "we are not effectively bringing in white males, who have lots of money as a group". They are trying to get attendance up, not force one group out while bringing in another.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 01:46 PM
not really... if you read his email he talks about wealthy blacks in DC... It is obvious he doesn't really care about skin color as long as you have money...

he would have wrote the same email if it was poor white trash rednecks that couldn't get him the proper revenue mix...

I think just the term "poor whites" would be sufficient here. Ok?

Vinylman
09-07-2014, 01:46 PM
Sounds like he thinks the target audience he wants have prejudices against minorities. I guess thats racist.... I honestly dont know anymore.... Sterling had to go tho

his target audience is generally racist... that doesn't mean he is ... it just means he recognizes it.

flea
09-07-2014, 01:48 PM
I don't think posters here have an idea what he's talking about. Some of the displays and things at games are so stereotypically "black culture" that it's borderline offensive. I think he is singling these things out as alienating middle-aged whites (spinning rims, grills, and other BET junk culture that many blacks find offensive at the association with their culture).

Vinylman
09-07-2014, 01:49 PM
I think just the term "poor whites" would be sufficient here. Ok?

thanks for your non-value added PC response...

Clippersfan86
09-07-2014, 01:53 PM
prejudice - preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

Everything he said was based on reason or actual experience. The letter isn't racist or prejudiced. Just because it makes blacks look bad because it says they make less money doesn't make it racist, prejudiced, or anything like that. Whites DO make more than blacks. I don't have Atlanta specific data, but a quick google search tells me the average white household income is $22,000 more than the average black household income. It's facts.

As a side note, the Asian household income is actually higher than whites. What if he was trying to attract asians to the stadium for the same reasons? Would we be discussing this at all? What if he was trying to bring in females to expand the demographics. What if a team was trying to diversify and trying to bring in more black fans and everything in this email was reversed. Would it be an issue at all? I'm guessing no.

Racist= The believe that a race is superior. A hatred or disdain for another race

Doesn't seem to fit the bill either. Maybe bigot is closest, bottom line is this isn't very racist by definition.

TheNumber37
09-07-2014, 02:15 PM
He voluntarily release the email...
Something tells me he saw how much money they clippers went for and once a huge deal too

ewing
09-07-2014, 02:23 PM
Here is the actual e-mail :



http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/basketball/complete-e-mail-sent-by-levenson/nhHbD/


well that wasn't racist

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 02:24 PM
I don't think posters here have an idea what he's talking about. Some of the displays and things at games are so stereotypically "black culture" that it's borderline offensive. I think he is singling these things out as alienating middle-aged whites (spinning rims, grills, and other BET junk culture that many blacks find offensive at the association with their culture).

Agreed, He's probably just trying to say the franchise is doing a poor job of bringing in more people with money.

IDunknown
09-07-2014, 02:26 PM
Crucify me if you want, but I have 0 problem with that email. Not even a little bit. He's identified a business problem with the business end of his team and is taking steps to correct it. He has data that identifies a demographic that is most likely to buy season tickets and he is trying to appeal to that demographic. IMO that's good business. Every single good business owner uses demographic data like that.

I'm sick of skin color being such a damn sensitive topic. Believe it or not black culture is different than white culture, and we shouldn't expect business owners to ignore that. Why is nobody complaining about ageism because he is trying to appeal to ages 35-55. Must mean he clearly hates teenagers right? He also says he's trying to appeal to males as well. Such a sexist email. Probably beats his wife when he goes home too. Get him out of the league. SMDH...

I agree with this, and I'm black. He is using stereotypes to recognize demographics, and grow his business. Of course we are all individuals, but he is generalizing. He is saying everybody should feel comfortable, but his business has targeted the black audience...in general.

BigCityofDreams
09-07-2014, 02:30 PM
While there is certainly racism in the email (black people can't afford to buy merchandise, etc.) the motive of the email is being misinterpreted. The point was NOT to say, "we need less black people at games", it was to say, "we are not effectively bringing in white males, who have lots of money as a group". They are trying to get attendance up, not force one group out while bringing in another.

If that's the case why even bring up things such as "My theory is that the black crowd scared away the whites...but i think southern whites simply were not comfortable being in an arena or at a bar where they were in the minority" Why not just we've seen our white customer base decline over the past several yrs. I think there are ways we can gain them back. Yes we do have a predominately black fan base but I believe we can have a diverse and passionate crowd at our games. Sure there are difference in cultre and things along those lines and maybe we have to adjust a few things but we aren't doing so to alienate or shun anyone. We're all Atlanta Hawks fans and we have to find ways to provide a great fun atmosphere for everyone no what who they are or where they're from.


I've been to Hawks games at Phillips and what he's saying isn't wrong. Attendance is very poor and the whole time it's loud hip-hop and other spectacles clearly meant to appeal to a demographic other than middle-aged whites. I don't really see that as an objectionable observation - it's just the way it is. He was also speculating on why concession sales are in the toilet along with attendance.

Again, not sure I'm seeing anything offensive but I guess this is 2014 and if you ever talk about race it better be in an ultra-apologetic way or someone is coming after your shirt. I'm sure this was Dr. King's dream: everyone so afraid to talk about racial disparities that we finally need racial rioting again to bring attention to certain racial divides.

Why do people always bring up Dr. King? This is the same Dr. King who was jailed for what he was fighting for. A large section of this nation hated the man but every time a discussion like this occurs people constantly bring up his name.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 02:32 PM
I read enough of the email.

Sounds like he's trying to be the opposite of racist. He's trying to find a way to include whites as well as blacks.

nycericanguy
09-07-2014, 02:34 PM
Crucify me if you want, but I have 0 problem with that email. Not even a little bit. He's identified a business problem with the business end of his team and is taking steps to correct it. He has data that identifies a demographic that is most likely to buy season tickets and he is trying to appeal to that demographic. IMO that's good business. Every single good business owner uses demographic data like that.

I'm sick of skin color being such a damn sensitive topic. Believe it or not black culture is different than white culture, and we shouldn't expect business owners to ignore that. Why is nobody complaining about ageism because he is trying to appeal to ages 35-55. Must mean he clearly hates teenagers right? He also says he's trying to appeal to males as well. Such a sexist email. Probably beats his wife when he goes home too. Get him out of the league. SMDH...

Agreed, it's just part of this new politically correct, entitled generation. Everyone is so perfect and unbiased right? No one ever has thoughts like this.

Truth is there's nothing really wrong with what he said, he's talking business, and this kind of stuff goes on behind closed doors in every corporation. Everyone just wants to sound alarms and scream racism and be a victim and prop themselves up.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 02:38 PM
If that's the case why even bring up things such as "My theory is that the black crowd scared away the whites...but i think southern whites simply were not comfortable being in an arena or at a bar where they were in the minority" Why not just we've seen our white customer base decline over the past several yrs. I think there are ways we can gain them back. Yes we do have a predominately black fan base but I believe we can have a diverse and passionate crowd at our games. Sure there are difference in cultre and things along those lines and maybe we have to adjust a few things but we aren't doing so to alienate or shun anyone. We're all Atlanta Hawks fans and we have to find ways to provide a great fun atmosphere for everyone no what who they are or where they're from.

You're nitpicking his email or emails.

Just look at the "just" of the email as a whole. That one sentence isn't the whole thing he's saying. It's just one line. Also it's not really a racist line. You're trying to take a rather meaningless line out of a full paragraph or email.

Basically the just of the email is that he's talking about trying to get a more balanced demographic. Which is actually the opposite of racist.

Bruno
09-07-2014, 02:49 PM
ugh, good lord. sick of this stuff.

KnicksorBust
09-07-2014, 02:50 PM
I'm glad that other people did not think this email was racist. I completely agree that his motivation was specifically monetary (how to increase attendance/sales/etc) and that he was using evidence to support his claims. I found there to be very little that was actually inflammatory.

flea
09-07-2014, 02:51 PM
People talk about Dr. King because his dream was of a colorblind society - not a society too scared to address issues of color.

BigCityofDreams
09-07-2014, 03:06 PM
You're nitpicking his email or emails.

Just look at the "just" of the email as a whole. That one sentence isn't the whole thing he's saying. It's just one line. Also it's not really a racist line. You're trying to take a rather meaningless line out of a full paragraph or email.

Basically the just of the email is that he's talking about trying to get a more balanced demographic. Which is actually the opposite of racist.

He could have done that w/o the other stuff. Without the this is too black, black crowd scared off white crowd, southern whites aren't comfortable, etc. Nothing wrong with wanting to have a broad variety of fans.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 03:14 PM
He could have done that w/o the other stuff. Without the this is too black, black crowd scared off white crowd, southern whites aren't comfortable, etc. Nothing wrong with wanting to have a broad variety of fans.

He didn't have to word it that way.

But still not really a racist comment. And it's just that, a comment.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 03:18 PM
I actully think the NBA in gerneral could do a better job of catering to the non african american fan. I mean heck the All Star game has been bascially a celebration of all things black the last 9-10 years. It's gotten really bad and very offensively catering to one race way too much.

Jeffy25
09-07-2014, 03:29 PM
I don't see anything racist about what he said, at all.

It's an internal email about the teams demographics and how to improve gate receipts by attempting to attract a more affluent crowd.

Maybe he shouldn't have said it all with a point of 'black and white' but there is nothing wrong with this in my mind. He has a responsibility to do what he can to attract a family atmosphere and bring more money in. He didn't feel like that was happening, and he cited why (r&b dollars are down, jersey sales are down, gate receipts are down, etc).

If this is racist, burn me with him.

Jeffy25
09-07-2014, 03:30 PM
Sounds like he thinks the target audience he wants have prejudices against minorities. I guess thats racist.... I honestly dont know anymore.... Sterling had to go tho

Agreed

Jeffy25
09-07-2014, 03:32 PM
People talk about Dr. King because his dream was of a colorblind society - not a society too scared to address issues of color.

yup

BigCityofDreams
09-07-2014, 03:37 PM
He didn't have to word it that way.

But still not really a racist comment. And it's just that, a comment.

I don't think it's on par with comments made by someone like Paula Deen but it's cringe worthy at the least.


I actully think the NBA in gerneral could do a better job of catering to the non african american fan. I mean heck the All Star game has been bascially a celebration of all things black the last 9-10 years. It's gotten really bad and very offensively catering to one race way too much.

What would you like to see done exactly?

lamzoka
09-07-2014, 03:49 PM
I actully think the NBA in gerneral could do a better job of catering to the non african american fan. I mean heck the All Star game has been bascially a celebration of all things black the last 9-10 years. It's gotten really bad and very offensively catering to one race way too much.

But its still the best all star celebration out of all the other sports.

BigCityofDreams
09-07-2014, 03:57 PM
People talk about Dr. King because his dream was of a colorblind society - not a society too scared to address issues of color.

It was??


The problem with the conservative logic is that King said he didn't want his children judged by the color of their skin. He never said he wanted the color of their skin to be ignored.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/23/martin-luther-king-dream-speech-misunderstand

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 04:04 PM
But its still the best all star celebration out of all the other sports.

It's become an absolute joke, the entire weekend. It's 90% commercials and black entertainers in hip hop. It's not even a resemblence of a game. I'd rather watch a pick up game at the local rec center. Seriously and it's not even close. Also the ratings have suffered dramatically in the last 9-10 years and is reaching all time lows of 6 on the Neilson scaled
The contest used to draw in the high 12's and even 13's back about 20 years ago. You know, when it was a competitive game and all the players really wanted to win and they played as teams.

bulldog312
09-07-2014, 04:05 PM
Saw this headline on ESPN

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/11483181/seattle-mariners-manager-mlb-not-reaching-blacks

Now imagine if that was the NBA and a coach was talking about how the NBA doesn't have enough white people and discussing programs to bring more white people to basketball.

bulldog312
09-07-2014, 04:06 PM
It's become an absolute joke, the entire weekend. It's 90% commercials and black entertainers in hip hop. It's not even a resemblence of a game. I'd rather watch a pick up game at the local rec center. Seriously and it's not even close. Also the ratings have suffered dramatically in the last 9-10 years and is reaching all time lows of 6 on the Neilson scaled
The contest used to draw in the high 12's and even 13's back about 20 years ago. You know, when it was a competitive game and all the players really wanted to win and they played as teams.

They should give the winning team home court advantage in the Finals ;)

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 04:55 PM
They should give the winning team home court advantage in the Finals ;)

No, there's little things they could do with the weekend that would help the game be more of a competitive game and entertaining. I'm not going to list them all, but in general don't make the entire weekend a celebration.

take out the commercials in the dunk contest and invite 10 borderline stars looking to make a name for theirselves, Give each dunker 10 dunks and may the best all around dunker win.

Something like this would make for a more competitive weekend in general.

Add some non black musicians to appeal to a larger group of people.

Don't put non basketball fans like byonce courtside like she means anything to sports.

Tip the game off at 5 oclock Eastern because 9 o clock eastern is too late for an all star game. Many of the players want to be on a flight back home by that time.

Make it somewhat mandetory that the coaches not play favorites and play "thier" guys or starters 35+ minutes. I've seen a bad trend in this over the last 9 or so years. It's gotten to where some players play like 2 minutes. It's really bad and disrespectful to the players and the game. Also I notice a lot of the starters anyway are somewhat full of themselves and just play hero ball the entire game and chuck away, it's clear they're just trying to win the MVP for thierselves and not playing any defense of team basketball. I'd say if it comes to it award the MVP of the game to the best defensive player in the game... Then you'll have competitiveness.

Also one other thing I was thinking of. eliminate a lot of the commercials and make the halftime no more than 10 minutes. Because extended breaks and too many breaks can affect the flow of a game.

flea
09-07-2014, 05:11 PM
It was??



http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/23/martin-luther-king-dream-speech-misunderstand

No idea what affirmative action and politicians have to do with what I said, but Dr. King's dream was about judging on character and not color. That doesn't mean eliminating black culture. Even if we wanted to, black culture is indelibly linked to American culture and many of the finest parts of our culture are a direct result of black culture.

Bruno
09-07-2014, 05:14 PM
i read it. i don't see the problem. i don't like the increasingly PC world that we live in, it's just a way to control people. people like sterling is one thing, but this isn't even in the same stratosphere. i would have read this and thought nothing of it if it wasn't a big news story.

Jagged QT
09-07-2014, 05:17 PM
Saw this headline on ESPN

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/11483181/seattle-mariners-manager-mlb-not-reaching-blacks

Now imagine if that was the NBA and a coach was talking about how the NBA doesn't have enough white people and discussing programs to bring more white people to basketball.

Arent the majority of NBA season ticket holders either white or corporations? Not sure the point you're making.

MLB actually banned blacks from playing at one point, it will NEVER get the support it desires. The NBA isnt gonna denounce talent based on race.

Jagged QT
09-07-2014, 05:22 PM
As far as the topic goes, the two issues I take is....

1) this owner wants to change his demographic without changing the actual product. Put a better team on the floor and those seats will have a better chance of getting filled.

2) he's actually blaming one specific demographic for why the other isnt participating when the team plays in a demographic that is supporting the team.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 05:26 PM
The US could do a better job of including white athletes in their younger years. Organizations like AAU seem racist to me. High school coaches can do a better job.

Nash, Dirk, Gasol and Gasol are all great players but may have not gotten noticed if they grew up in America. Same goes for Ginobili.

Todays league is lacking players like Majerle, Chambers, Hornacek, Price, Stockton, McHale etc. And I'd say it's because the highschool here don't invite them or give them a chance.

These types of players are good for the game and the NBA needs to see that.

Seems that highschool coaches and college coaches are looking for the self absorbed chuckers.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 05:31 PM
As far as the topic goes, the two issues I take is....

1) this owner wants to change his demographic without changing the actual product. Put a better team on the floor and those seats will have a better chance of getting filled.

2) he's actually blaming one specific demographic for why the other isnt participating when the team plays in a demographic that is supporting the team.


I totally agree with your first comment. So true. The Hawks overall have been a poor product the last 15 years. Last time they were truly entertaining was when they had Mutombo, Laettner, Smith, Manning, and Blaylock. With Lenny coaching.

Also he could try to put a few good white players on the team, that might help.

PurpleLynch
09-07-2014, 05:36 PM
Here is the actual e-mail :



http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/basketball/complete-e-mail-sent-by-levenson/nhHbD/

:crazy:

Actually I'm very surprised that a there are racist owners in the Nba. What can I say? I guess money wins over racism from the perspective of these owners like Sterling...bunch of fools...

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 05:42 PM
Actually I'm very surprised that a there are racist owners in the Nba. What can I say? I guess money wins over racism from the perspective of these owners like Sterling...bunch of fools...

He's not racist, he was just trying to say in writing that he wanted a more board based racial diversity at his games and didn't know how to write it the proper way.

InRoseWeTrust
09-07-2014, 05:42 PM
People need to stop conflating "racially insensitive" with "racist." Totally different things.

Jagged QT
09-07-2014, 05:59 PM
People need to stop conflating "racially insensitive" with "racist." Totally different things.

Racial sterotyping is racism. The issue to me is he feels his teams patrons and employees are too black saturated and thats preventing whites from attending. To be honest he even slants the white race as well by assuming for instance a 35 year old white doesnt like rap in Atlanta.

PurpleLynch
09-07-2014, 06:01 PM
He's not racist, he was just trying to say in writing that he wanted a more board based racial diversity at his games and didn't know how to write it the proper way.

He wanted that because he thinks that if you have a majority of blacks in the audience you scare white people.
We could use an analogy and say that even the majority of Nba players are blacks,but I don't think that it damages the buisness and keeps back white people.
I'm not judging him and he probably can't explain an idea in the proper way,but if he's not racist,at least he is very bigot.
Hawks just need a better team,after that you will see more people(also whites).

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 06:07 PM
Racial sterotyping is racism. The issue to me is he feels his teams patrons and employees are too black saturated and thats preventing whites from attending. To be honest he even slants the white race as well by assuming for instance a 35 year old white doesnt like rap in Atlanta.

A racist is something more really. He could've been joking in the email for all you know.

Also, news to jagged qt. Not everyone likes rap.

It's honestly seen as somewhat of trash and not even music to most in the US and probably especially high class business men in their mid 30's.


Also he mentioned that some have reported muggings and such. He says he hasn't seen any, but Let's be real, is a multimillionaire really there on the streets hours before the game and hours after the games observing... So we don't know what has gone on.

BigCityofDreams
09-07-2014, 06:07 PM
Racial sterotyping is racism. The issue to me is he feels his teams patrons and employees are too black saturated and thats preventing whites from attending. To be honest he even slants the white race as well by assuming for instance a 35 year old white doesnt like rap in Atlanta.

I wonder if he thinks the players are too black.

"Damn it why couldn't this be the 1940s" lol

joeyc77
09-07-2014, 06:08 PM
This is not racism. It's not bigoted or stereotyping. It's a business strategy based on demographics, statistics, polling, and other relevant data to try and raise overall profits.

When the NFL purposely made an effort to increase female fans, no one said boo. In fact, cases were made that raunchy and vulgar male fans (mostly white) scared off females from attending the games. They have toned down some of the language, lowered beer sales, policed the stadiums better along with other "gimmick" marketing geared towards women such as the pink jerseys.

In Atlanta, this is no different except that it's geared towards white men. The only color this is about is green.

This is also the exact tactics used by political parties to target certain voter groups.

PurpleLynch
09-07-2014, 06:24 PM
This is not racism. It's not bigoted or stereotyping. It's a business strategy based on demographics, statistics, polling, and other relevant data to try and raise overall profits.

When the NFL purposely made an effort to increase female fans, no one said boo. In fact, cases were made that raunchy and vulgar male fans (mostly white) scared off females from attending the games. They have toned down some of the language, lowered beer sales, policed the stadiums better along with other "gimmick" marketing geared towards women such as the pink jerseys.

In Atlanta, this is no different except that it's geared towards white men. The only color this is about is green.

This is also the exact tactics used by political parties to target certain voter groups.

Man,he said that there are too much black cheerleaders and staff in the Hawks stadium. And that could scare white people.
It's a strategy indeed,but a racist one.
Plus,in the e-mail it seems that his statistics are taken from his "eye test" rather than true statistics.

bulldog312
09-07-2014, 06:26 PM
Arent the majority of NBA season ticket holders either white or corporations? Not sure the point you're making.

MLB actually banned blacks from playing at one point, it will NEVER get the support it desires. The NBA isnt gonna denounce talent based on race.

The article was referencing the players, and white players are obviously a minority in the NBA. The point was that things are always being done to increase diversity all over sports and the US in general. When it's catering to females, no one cares. When it's catering to blacks, or hispanics, or asians, no one cares. But when something is done to cater to white males, it's suddenly racist. I just found it funny how on this same day there is an article on the front page of ESPN claiming we need more blacks in baseball, which isn't really a huge jump from an owner claiming he needs more whites in his stadium, but one is applauded while the other is lashed.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 06:33 PM
Man,he said that there are too much black cheerleaders and staff in the Hawks stadium. And that could scare white people.
It's a strategy indeed,but a racist one.
Plus,in the e-mail it seems that his statistics are taken from his "eye test" rather than true statistics.

You're taking things out of context man and you're even mixing it up. He didn't say anything of the sort.

Plus I've actually heard black people say they don't like going around large crowds of black people... What is that supposed to mean?

So we need to stop taking a meaningless email out of context. I doubt they really conduct business decisions through emails.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 06:37 PM
The article was referencing the players, and white players are obviously a minority in the NBA. The point was that things are always being done to increase diversity all over sports and the US in general. When it's catering to females, no one cares. When it's catering to blacks, or hispanics, or asians, no one cares. But when something is done to cater to white males, it's suddenly racist. I just found it funny how on this same day there is an article on the front page of ESPN claiming we need more blacks in baseball, which isn't really a huge jump from an owner claiming he needs more whites in his stadium, but one is applauded while the other is lashed.

So true.

joeyc77
09-07-2014, 06:44 PM
Man,he said that there are too much black cheerleaders and staff in the Hawks stadium. And that could scare white people.
It's a strategy indeed,but a racist one.
Plus,in the e-mail it seems that his statistics are taken from his "eye test" rather than true statistics.

No. White cheerleaders appeal more to white men. There's no reason for a cheerleading team to be made up of the majority of one race or the other.

He's trying to increase sales by bringing more white males (35-55) to the game. That's it. Statistically speaking, they are the most attractive consumer market.

PurpleLynch
09-07-2014, 06:47 PM
You're taking things out of context man and you're even mixing it up. He didn't say anything of the sort.

Plus I've actually heard black people say they don't like going around large crowds of black people... What is that supposed to mean?

So we need to stop taking a meaningless email out of context. I doubt they really conduct business decisions through emails.

"...then i start looking around our arena during games and notice the following:

-- it's 70 pct black
-- the cheerleaders are black
-- the music is hip hop
-- at the bars it's 90 pct black
-- there are few fathers and sons at the games
-- we are doing after game concerts to attract more fans and the concerts are either hip hop or gospel."

Why pointing out that? Ok,you think that large crowd of blacks could scare white people. So why pointing out that cheerleaders are black? It seems odd.
You heard them saying that? It's ok,but maybe they just don't want to be near large crowds in general. Or those black dudes you have heard are more comfortable next to white or hispanic large crowds?
He's trying to be polite and all,but to me under his politeness there is a some kind of racism.

This email wasn't so meaningless,it led to this owner selling his share.

BigCityofDreams
09-07-2014, 06:48 PM
The article was referencing the players, and white players are obviously a minority in the NBA. The point was that things are always being done to increase diversity all over sports and the US in general. When it's catering to females, no one cares. When it's catering to blacks, or hispanics, or asians, no one cares. But when something is done to cater to white males, it's suddenly racist. I just found it funny how on this same day there is an article on the front page of ESPN claiming we need more blacks in baseball, which isn't really a huge jump from an owner claiming he needs more whites in his stadium, but one is applauded while the other is lashed.


Because it's not the same thing.

PurpleLynch
09-07-2014, 06:58 PM
No. White cheerleaders appeal more to white men. There's no reason for a cheerleading team to be made up of the majority of one race or the other.

He's trying to increase sales by bringing more white males (35-55) to the game. That's it. Statistically speaking, they are the most attractive consumer market.

The bolded is very debatable(and false imo).But I agree,there's no reason to have a completely black cheerleading team.But that's also false,I saw pics of 2012's Hawks cheerleaders and they were well mixed.
Yes,white consumer market is more attractive from a buisness point of view,but I think a better strategy to gather more people in the stadium is focusing on building a championship team rather that selecting your audience/staff.

ldawg
09-07-2014, 07:01 PM
I don't see much wrong here its a little racist and some things are off but its a business and if you want to be successful you have to target groups. I thought Miami had the latest crowed and they had a championship team. Miami had trouble getting fans to the game black white or cuban. However I think he could of solve some issues without making race the focal point. Like when your in Atlanta you don't see or here nothing about the hawks so it maybe marketing. They could also do more family oriented activities on weekends maybe hold camps in other areas of the state. Their baseball field is in a more black populated area and have many white fans if not all. so location is not an issue. like most teams if they had more marketable players that help plenty. To be on his side it cant be 70% black got to mix it up even the bars. At night kids go to school so don't expect to see many kids at the game on week days. Black dad have kids too so to say they don't bring their kids is not a true statement. Not all black Dads are single. Now that the White people are moving back in the City of Atlanta that will also help. Now they don't have to come from way out in the country to attend a game. I don't find it offensive but he could have been more clever with his words.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 07:04 PM
"...then i start looking around our arena during games and notice the following:

-- it's 70 pct black
-- the cheerleaders are black
-- the music is hip hop
-- at the bars it's 90 pct black
-- there are few fathers and sons at the games
-- we are doing after game concerts to attract more fans and the concerts are either hip hop or gospel."

Why pointing out that? Ok,you think that large crowd of blacks could scare white people. So why pointing out that cheerleaders are black? It seems odd.
You heard them saying that? It's ok,but maybe they just don't want to be near large crowds in general. Or those black dudes you have heard are more comfortable next to white or hispanic large crowds?
He's trying to be polite and all,but to me under his politeness there is a some kind of racism.

This email wasn't so meaningless,it led to this owner selling his share.

There's no reason to have an audiene 70 % black and have the bars 90% black. That doesn't even represent the city of Atlanta and it's suburbs which is more like 65% white in the Greater Atlanta area.
The owner is trying to figure out why there aren't 65% whites at this game like the Atlanta area. He doesn't know why exactly. That is where some of you are putting too much into what he's saying while speaking hyperbole. Also some people aren't great writers and have trouble expressing what they're thinking in writing.

He's just observing and trying to figure out how he can first of all fill the arena seats and suites and how he can maybe help whites feel more welcome at the games. He doesn't know exactly why this is the case. He never exactly definitively say why it's they way it is.

He's just listing examples of why he thinks maybe there aren't enough target cliental at his games.

He lists poor music choice for the cliental he'd like to attract more of, he list other things that possibly play a small part in it.

Someone early mentioned the roster and the actual team that plays. He failed to look at that very important factor. The team could be better and maybe they could atleast try to bring in a good white player or two.

ldawg
09-07-2014, 07:08 PM
Maybe he need to get some gay cheerleaders and a gay bar after all its close to midtown. Atlanta is no longer black populated its very mix. White people now live in the middle of areas that was once hood. They are getting in before it becomes to expensive. But yes you cant cater to only your black viewers. mix up the bars. mix up the music. Frank their DJ may not like that but as a dj you got to be able to cater to all kind of crowds. Hawks issue is Marketing not only in Atlanta but Georgia. Get better Star players.

gaughan333
09-07-2014, 07:12 PM
The fact that people think this is racist just makes me laugh. Go look up the actual definition of the word.

PurpleLynch
09-07-2014, 07:16 PM
There's no reason to have an audiene 70 % black and have the bars 90% black. That doesn't even represent the city of Atlanta and it's suburbs which is more like 65% white in the Greater Atlanta area.
The owner is trying to figure out why there aren't 65% whites at this game like the Atlanta area. He doesn't know why exactly. That is where some of you are putting too much into what he's saying while speaking hyperbole. Also some people aren't great writers and have trouble expressing what they're thinking in writing.

He's just observing and trying to figure out how he can first of all fill the arena seats and suites and how he can maybe help whites feel more welcome at the games. He doesn't know exactly why this is the case. He never exactly definitively say why it's they way it is.

He's just listing examples of why he thinks maybe there aren't enough target cliental at his games.

He lists poor music choice for the cliental he'd like to attract more of, he list other things that possibly play a small part in it.

Someone early mentioned the roster and the actual team that plays. He failed to look at that very important factor. The team could be better and maybe they could atleast try to bring in a good white player or two.

Didn't know about Atlanta races distribution...Now I'm sure that his strategy was flawed and stupid(and with obviously light racial tones imo).
65% of the Atlanta area is white and he looks to that kind of stuff(staff/audience) to improve income? Maybe Hawks are lucky that Silver laid the hammer again.
Black people also have families,just make more family friendly events and you'll see how things change.Suddenly you find black and white children screaming,more age/race diversity,more quiet audience and more money to make.
Plus,just get a good team and you will see that more people of any race will pay more attention to the Hawks.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 07:16 PM
Because it's not the same thing.

It's exactly the same thing. He's just wanting a more balanced audience and wanting his team and the experience to appeal to all.

Anyone can see you're a little racist bigcitydreams and they can see you get a kick out of the 40% black population in the Greater Atlanta area "taking over" the arena with "thier type stuff". With 75%

You also probably get a kick out of this man losing his career over something so little.

black people say stuff like this and worse so much but they never lose their jobs over it.

Jagged QT
09-07-2014, 07:18 PM
A racist is something more really. He could've been joking in the email for all you know.

Also, news to jagged qt. Not everyone likes rap.

It's honestly seen as somewhat of trash and not even music to most in the US and probably especially high class business men in their mid 30's.


Also he mentioned that some have reported muggings and such. He says he hasn't seen any, but Let's be real, is a multimillionaire really there on the streets hours before the game and hours after the games observing... So we don't know what has gone on.
Not defending rap, but pretty much every nba arena plays it during timeouts, so clearly the NBA supprots it for whatever reason they allow it.

But thats a minor point, the bigger point is he is blaming an entire race for why another race isnt attending.

Send from free tickets into the white populations and see if they come out like he admitted he did in the black comunities.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 07:23 PM
The fact that people think this is racist just makes me laugh. Go look up the actual definition of the word.

It's like some sensitive people out there have never even seen an actual racist comment.
and we're just talking about 'comments" here. doesn't hardly even start there.

ldawg
09-07-2014, 07:28 PM
He is trying to target the buckhead, Brookhaven, Atlanta rich folks. The ones in the Million dollar homes. In other words he wants to charge more so tickets than 20 dollar seats.

BigCityofDreams
09-07-2014, 07:28 PM
It's exactly the same thing. He's just wanting a more balanced audience and wanting his team and the experience to appeal to all.

Anyone can see you're a little racist bigcitydreams and they can see you get a kick out of the 40% black population in the Greater Atlanta area "taking over" the arena with "thier type stuff". With 75%

You also probably get a kick out of this man losing his career over something so little.

black people say stuff like this and worse so much but they never lose their jobs over it.

Actually it's not the same.

Far from racist I just have to call out ppl on their BS. You're the one stating this team needs to go out and get a good white player or two. If a white player is good he will get a chance just like anyone else. In the NBA if you can play they will play you. Many ppl didn't think JJ Reddick could stick in the league as long as he has when he came in. He's turned his career into a nice one. I wish he was on the Lakers.

Why would I get a kick out of it exactly???

He didn't lose his career. He fell on his sword and is selling his stake. He's going to get paid from this. Years from now no one will even remember his e-mail except when something like this again pops up.

Are these black people running big corporations and companies as well. Hell how many black ppl who have said worse even hold high positions in a corporation?

PurpleLynch
09-07-2014, 07:29 PM
It's exactly the same thing. He's just wanting a more balanced audience and wanting his team and the experience to appeal to all.

Anyone can see you're a little racist bigcitydreams and they can see you get a kick out of the 40% black population in the Greater Atlanta area "taking over" the arena with "thier type stuff". With 75%

You also probably get a kick out of this man losing his career over something so little.

black people say stuff like this and worse so much but they never lose their jobs over it.

Yes,but one is to extend a sport also to minorities that usually have lower income,while the other one is a stupid strategy just to make more income for the Hawks. So it's very different.
Well then,find a black owner saying that he wants more black cheerleaders and more black audience because he thinks that white crowds are keeping out blacks from the stadium and I'll agree with you...

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 07:30 PM
Not defending rap, but pretty much every nba arena plays it during timeouts, so clearly the NBA supprots it for whatever reason they allow it.

But thats a minor point, the bigger point is he is blaming an entire race for why another race isnt attending.

Send from free tickets into the white populations and see if they come out like he admitted he did in the black comunities.


They do play sorry rap during basketball games too much especially along the eastern teams atleast most of them and a few western teams.

But this is one of the reasons why the NBA experience isn't what it used to be 20 years ago. They're still just riding the wave that Jordan, Bird, Magic, Barkley, Robinson, Ewing and others made and the game experience from then. It is faltering in the last 10 or so years.

The NBA was more about the game at hand now it is about making money in the arena. But the funny thing is, it has the exact opposite affect that they want.

Jagged QT
09-07-2014, 07:34 PM
They do play sorry rap during basketball games too much especially along the eastern teams atleast most of them and a few western teams.

But this is one of the reasons why the NBA experience isn't what it used to be 20 years ago. They're still just riding the wave that Jordan, Bird, Magic, Barkley, Robinson, Ewing and others made and the game experience from then. It is faltering in the last 10 or so years.

The NBA was more about the game at hand now it is about making money in the arena. But the funny thing is, it has the exact opposite affect that they want.

I hope you arent of the impression that the NBA is struggling. The NBA business is contantly growing.

I admit as a fan I enjoyed it more back in the late 70's and 80's, but the NBA is huge now...way more than back then.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 07:36 PM
Yes,but one is to extend a sport also to minorities that usually have lower income,while the other one is a stupid strategy just to make more income for the Hawks. So it's very different.
Well then,find a black owner saying that he wants more black cheerleaders and more black audience because he thinks that white crowds are keeping out blacks from the stadium and I'll agree with you...

One is trying to "advance" or "elevate" while the other just wants a diverse customer.

By the way, I'd be ok if someone said something like that last statement from you. It's really not a big deal. Infact I've actually heard some players and others around the game say some stuff like that about Portland and Sacramento and some others.... It's not big deal. It's just their loss.


You act like what the Atlanta owner said was "true". Or Maybe you think it is true, what he said and that's why it offends you so much. The only way to fix that is to be more inviting to anglo saxon Americans as another fan. But many anglo saxons don't think like this.

But I'm all for him wanting a more diverse fan base. He should always be trying to advance the game because this would appeal to more.

BigCityofDreams
09-07-2014, 07:48 PM
They do play sorry rap during basketball games too much especially along the eastern teams atleast most of them and a few western teams.

But this is one of the reasons why the NBA experience isn't what it used to be 20 years ago. They're still just riding the wave that Jordan, Bird, Magic, Barkley, Robinson, Ewing and others made and the game experience from then. It is faltering in the last 10 or so years.

The NBA was more about the game at hand now it is about making money in the arena. But the funny thing is, it has the exact opposite affect that they want.

Actually it's not. The NBA has improved over the yrs. They are doing better business in this day and age.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 07:51 PM
Actually it's not the same.

Far from racist I just have to call out ppl on their BS. You're the one stating this team needs to go out and get a good white player or two. If a white player is good he will get a chance just like anyone else. In the NBA if you can play they will play you. Many ppl didn't think JJ Reddick could stick in the league as long as he has when he came in. He's turned his career into a nice one. I wish he was on the Lakers.

Why would I get a kick out of it exactly???

He didn't lose his career. He fell on his sword and is selling his stake. He's going to get paid from this. Years from now no one will even remember his e-mail except when something like this again pops up.

Are these black people running big corporations and companies as well. Hell how many black ppl who have said worse even hold high positions in a corporation?

You're assuming that all white players get a legit chance, especially now with racist organizations like aau. far from just throwing down a 20 dollar bill at the ticket booth to see a game you'r trying to compare it to.

reddick really isn't even any good. The only reason he gets a chance is because he played at Duke and started there and Coach K has a huge pull in the NBA for some reason. Also he somehow has "fans".



So would it be your goal to have 100% blacks at your games as an owner? Nothing but blacks?

PurpleLynch
09-07-2014, 07:54 PM
One is trying to "advance" or "elevate" while the other just wants a diverse customer.

By the way, I'd be ok if someone said something like that last statement from you. It's really not a big deal. Infact I've actually heard some players and others around the game say some stuff like that about Portland and Sacramento and some others.... It's not big deal. It's just their loss.


You act like what the Atlanta owner said was "true". Or Maybe you think it is true, what he said and that's why it offends you so much. The only way to fix that is to be more inviting to anglo saxon Americans as another fan. But many anglo saxons don't think like this.

But I'm all for him wanting a more diverse fan base. He should always be trying to advance the game because this would appeal to more.

I'm not offended,I just think this owner wrote down stupid and personal perception trying to make more money. And his strategy turned out to be a failure,while he probably just had to focus on getting a better team.
Do you want to increase diversity? Just make more friendly families events(as I said in another post) and get a good team for your city.Plus,if they gave free tickets to black people,they should also do that for white people.
This owner just made dumb statements and didn't understand what's the real problem of the Hawks.
And,by the way,I'm an italian with blond hair and blue eyes. Technically it can't be possible for me to get racially offended.

BigCityofDreams
09-07-2014, 08:16 PM
You're assuming that all white players get a legit chance, especially now with racist organizations like aau. far from just throwing down a 20 dollar bill at the ticket booth to see a game you'r trying to compare it to.

reddick really isn't even any good. The only reason he gets a chance is because he played at Duke and started there and Coach K has a huge pull in the NBA for some reason. Also he somehow has "fans".



So would it be your goal to have 100% blacks at your games as an owner? Nothing but blacks?

So JJ Reddick hasn't lasted this long because of his skill...he's there because of Coach K lol.

Did I say that?? If they want more white fans no problem but he could have left the other stuff out.

Punk
09-07-2014, 08:40 PM
Agreed, He's probably just trying to say the franchise is doing a poor job of bringing in more people with money.

That's exactly what he is saying but what does black culture have to do with pushing away rich white people?

It doesn't happen in New York, Brooklyn, Cleveland, Miami, LA, Houston, Memphis, etc. I haven't heard any white people afraid to attend Thunder games despite the fact, they play hip-hop during intros and timeouts. The Thunder fanbase is predominately white.

Instead of acknowledging the ugly truth that Atlanta itself is a bad sports city that doesn't attract anybody. He wants to blame it on the Hip-Hip culture in Atlanta as the reason. The reality is the Hawks sucked at bringing in ALL types of fans for years and after the Joe Johnson trade, their attendance fell to bottom in the league. Even the Atlanta Braves don't draw fans. Baseball has "black culture" too, right?

He's an idiot.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 08:42 PM
Actually it's not. The NBA has improved over the yrs. They are doing better business in this day and age.

They're simply still riding the huge wave Jordan, Bird and Magic built.

They are actually not making the revenue they made in the early 90's inflation adjusted. They also need more commercials to make revenue to pay the bills than before. The commecials were not as long and there were fewer of them in the 90's and still made more inflation adjusted.

I doubt seriously that this comissioner can guide the league. He's talking about putting advertisements all over the court and jerseys. Also he's moved the NBA logo on the jerseys which should be looked at as taboo in my book plus he put it in a weird place.

Plus hardcore fans have been asking for the league to go to an all out "any defense goes" league and do away with any 3 second defensive calls for years now. Yet he is not hearing us.

Also many NBA fans want them to illiminate the charge circle becuase it's only increased defensive players jumping in front at the last second and undercutting offensive players when they're going up to dunk it. The exact thing it was supposed to try to cut back on. Sometimes things work out that way. They were trying to fix something that wasn't broke.

All Jerseys and Courts have become bland.
Players can't show emotion on the court now.
In game music is terrible now for the most part... maybe partly a music industy problem
lighting isn't as good. Too many lights on the fans. That does not increase optimum viewing for the court. The lighting is just bad in general for good basketball and I don't mean they need more. Good shooters like a slightly dim gym. That's what I've heard.

There's many things that haven't gone well in the NBA over the last 15 years.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 08:47 PM
So JJ Reddick hasn't lasted this long because of his skill...he's there because of Coach K lol.

Did I say that?? If they want more white fans no problem but he could have left the other stuff out.


You implied it.

JJ got drafted because of Coach K. He lasted because he collected fans for whatever reason... not all basketball related I hate to say.

So you agree it's fine for him to want to reach out to the white community? What advice would you give him in doing so? Besides the obvious like make the team better. What other in game things with the arena would you change to make more inviting for all races and cultures, that's means whites as well.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 08:53 PM
I know Okc fans and they don't like the music that plays there. I've heard several fans voice their opinion about it.
Also know that they really only go because it's a winner and one of the top 2-3 teams in the entire NBA. They would stop going and buying merchandise the second they're a lottery team.

Only a truly great owner and someone that "sees all" can keep a loyal fanbase through the years. There's a lot you have to keep up. Things like logo, jersey design, court design, in game experience, in game music and gifts, game programs, even in game lighting, contests for kids before some games, etc. etc. And of course the players have to be good and well coached to want to pay to go see.

lamzoka
09-07-2014, 08:55 PM
Some people are racist themselves and don't even know it. Donald Sterling is a good example.

I mean some of you guys here thought there was nothing wrong with what Donald Sterling said, so I'm not really surprise with some of the comment I'm seeing up here.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 08:57 PM
[QUOTE=

Jagged QT;29012324] the bigger point is he is blaming an entire race for why another race isnt attending.
QUOTE]

That's not really what he has written. writing and doing are two different things as well, but he only said it's a "theory" . He never even said it is the real reason. Plus he could've been joking.
You can't really get the full context of things in writing somtimes..

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 09:01 PM
Donald Sterling is a different situation. They're not the same at all. Also I do believe that was an attempt at extrosion. But she knew her stuff enough and got him. She did her best to piss him off

lamzoka
09-07-2014, 09:07 PM
They play Hip Hop in every NBA arena and Football stadium. Lets not act like they play it throughout the whole game with curse and derogatory words.

lamzoka
09-07-2014, 09:10 PM
Donald Sterling is a different situation. They're not the same at all. Also I do believe that was an attempt at extrosion. But she knew her stuff enough and got him. She did her best to piss him off

Are you saying Donald Stern isn't racist, the girl just got into him?

BigCityofDreams
09-07-2014, 09:11 PM
They're simply still riding the huge wave Jordan, Bird and Magic built.

They are actually not making the revenue they made in the early 90's inflation adjusted. They also need more commercials to make revenue to pay the bills than before. The commecials were not as long and there were fewer of them in the 90's and still made more inflation adjusted.

I doubt seriously that this comissioner can guide the league. He's talking about putting advertisements all over the court and jerseys. Also he's moved the NBA logo on the jerseys which should be looked at as taboo in my book plus he put it in a weird place.

Plus hardcore fans have been asking for the league to go to an all out "any defense goes" league and do away with any 3 second defensive calls for years now. Yet he is not hearing us.

Also many NBA fans want them to illiminate the charge circle becuase it's only increased defensive players jumping in front at the last second and undercutting offensive players when they're going up to dunk it. The exact thing it was supposed to try to cut back on. Sometimes things work out that way. They were trying to fix something that wasn't broke.

All Jerseys and Courts have become bland.
Players can't show emotion on the court now.
In game music is terrible now for the most part... maybe partly a music industy problem
lighting isn't as good. Too many lights on the fans. That does not increase optimum viewing for the court. The lighting is just bad in general for good basketball and I don't mean they need more. Good shooters like a slightly dim gym. That's what I've heard.

There's many things that haven't gone well in the NBA over the last 15 years.

How is that the case the NBA went through a lull period in about the 2000s. So they were living off Bird, Magic, and MJ. Then died down for a few yrs and then are now living off them again lol.

I think this commissioner will do a fine job. He's been learning under Stern for yrs. The ads on jerseys means more money for the league. I'm not for it because I think it's tacky but other sports have done it and he sees it as a possibility.

Who cares about the location of the logo. I'm sure ppl didn't realize it until you mentioned it.

Why would he want an all defense league. We live in the age where people want scores. Look at baseball. They are getting killed by a lack of PEDs and a shift. Fans are literately complaining about the sport being boring.

They have let up on emotion a bit. They need better judgement on whats over the line and what's not.

And yet with all those things they have seen a resurgence over the past few seasons.


[QUOTE=

Jagged QT;29012324] the bigger point is he is blaming an entire race for why another race isnt attending.
QUOTE]

That's not really what he has written. writing and doing are two different things as well, but he only said it's a "theory" . He never even said it is the real reason. Plus he could've been joking.
You can't really get the full context of things in writing somtimes..


If he was joking he would have came out and said it.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 09:16 PM
They play Hip Hop in every NBA arena and Football stadium. Lets not act like they play it throughout the whole game with curse and derogatory words.

They play it too much at most arenas. I'm a very fair person, but they do play it too much and it's really not a cool choice of music and doens't even sound good. Most of it doens't even have a rhythm, it's just beats and words. Poor lyrics aswell.

It's not high quility music that increases the game experience.

I will say that there are not many good artist today that make music. Not like in the 90's when they could easily throw on a new current hit form U2 or someone that no one has really heard a lot as people are leaving the games.

I'm thinking they need to do thier best to choose from the artist of the 90's and late 90's and mix in a few 80's and maybe even a few 70's songs. But not too many cool sounding or creative sounding songs from the last 10 years.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 09:20 PM
"If he was joking he would have came out and said it"

maybe, maybe not... you mean after the fact like now? Maybe he didn't think he could prove he was joking. I'm thinking he doesn't care to own the Hawks anymore and is looking for a large offer and this sets the table for a large offer for superman with the big checkbook to come in and save the day for everyone. (like the 2 billion dollar sale price the clippers got, rediculous).

It's honestly not racist though. On a scale of 1 to 10 it's like a 0.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 09:33 PM
How is that the case the NBA went through a lull period in about the 2000s. So they were living off Bird, Magic, and MJ. Then died down for a few yrs and then are now living off them again lol.

I think this commissioner will do a fine job. He's been learning under Stern for yrs. The ads on jerseys means more money for the league. I'm not for it because I think it's tacky but other sports have done it and he sees it as a possibility.

Who cares about the location of the logo. I'm sure ppl didn't realize it until you mentioned it.

Why would he want an all defense league. We live in the age where people want scores. Look at baseball. They are getting killed by a lack of PEDs and a shift. Fans are literately complaining about the sport being boring.

They have let up on emotion a bit. They need better judgement on whats over the line and what's not.

And yet with all those things they have seen a resurgence over the past few seasons.



A poor location of the logo makes for a sloppy looking jersey and product.

The NBA was never in a lull in the early 2000's. Some of there highest rated games were played then and they were still making tons of money. The players were making more overall then too. Sure there were bad teams in the Finals like the nets and the cavs, but the Pistons were pretty good overall and drew a large ratings against the Lakers. Lakers Kings was a great rival as was Spurs Mavs. I've noticed the NBA really start pushing to sell "hype" in the last 10 years.
As for the commissioner, you assume he'll be great. You have nothing to base this on except that he studied from a poor commissioner like Stern who actually hurt the league. The league had better ratings when he took over than when he left. The previous commissioner of the 70's is the one that advanced the NBA the most and kept the integrity of the game. He's the one that ushered in Showtime Magic and the Lakers and Bird's Celtics as long of those great matchups between Sixers and Celtics. He's even the one that honestly ushered in Michael Jordan and the other greats that came in during the early 80's and mid 80's.

I predict that the ratings will continue to fall and that the players will continue to lose their share of the revenue like this past CBA.
Rodman even said his day was the Golden Era because he said 'they gave us everything".

BigCityofDreams
09-07-2014, 09:36 PM
You implied it.

JJ got drafted because of Coach K. He lasted because he collected fans for whatever reason... not all basketball related I hate to say.

So you agree it's fine for him to want to reach out to the white community? What advice would you give him in doing so? Besides the obvious like make the team better. What other in game things with the arena would you change to make more inviting for all races and cultures, that's means whites as well.

I disagree on the Reddick point.

. Making the team better is a big thing. If the belief is southern white people are afraid to be around black people why would they spend money on a mediocre team surround by ppl they are afraid of. People come out to see winners. They are more willing to spend when they know the quality is good. If he wants more white fans improve the experience as a whole. Make it more family oriented so that way he's not excluding anyone. Pre game games and work shops with the fans. You can increase the white audience and still hold onto the black fans despite them being a blight on the organization. They can still play hip hop if they want. If the new stuff is to corrupted for some ppl go to an old school playlist. If they want some pop songs there are a host of good artists to choose from.


"If he was joking he would have came out and said it"

maybe, maybe not... you mean after the fact like now? Maybe he didn't think he could prove he was joking. I'm thinking he doesn't care to own the Hawks anymore and is looking for a large offer and this sets the table for a large offer for superman with the big checkbook to come in and save the day for everyone. (like the 2 billion dollar sale price the clippers got, rediculous).

It's honestly not racist though. On a scale of 1 to 10 it's like a 0.


Maybe it's not racist in the literal sense but it's a bad point of view. The wording of it is cringe worthy.


A poor location of the logo makes for a sloppy looking jersey and product.

The NBA was never in a lull in the early 2000's. Some of there highest rated games were played then and they were still making tons of money. The players were making more overall then too. Sure there were bad teams in the Finals like the nets and the cavs, but the Pistons were pretty good overall and drew a large ratings against the Lakers. Lakers Kings was a great rival as was Spurs Mavs. I've noticed the NBA really start pushing to sell "hype" in the last 10 years.
As for the commissioner, you assume he'll be great. You have nothing to base this on except that he studied from a poor commissioner like Stern who actually hurt the league. The league had better ratings when he took over than when he left. The previous commissioner of the 70's is the one that advanced the NBA the most and kept the integrity of the game. He's the one that ushered in Showtime Magic and the Lakers and Bird's Celtics as long of those great matchups between Sixers and Celtics. He's even the one that honestly ushered in Michael Jordan and the other greats that came in during the early 80's and mid 80's.

I predict that the ratings will continue to fall and that the players will continue to lose their share of the revenue like this past CBA.
Rodman even said his day was the Golden Era because he said 'they gave us everything".

The NBA has always sold hype. Are ppl forgetting how they searched high and low for the next Jordan. Players like Steve Francis and Marbury were the franchise players on teams lol.

Stern took the league from the era of tape delay to having some of the biggest stars in the world. I don't agree with everything he did but let's be honest he made some big strides.

So you're predicting the league to fall allow the're on an upswing what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeffy25
09-07-2014, 09:42 PM
2) he's actually blaming one specific demographic for why the other isnt participating when the team plays in a demographic that is supporting the team.

No he doesn't, re-read what he said.

ldawg
09-07-2014, 09:43 PM
I notice that too. I think all humans are racist to a point good or bad. However the ignorant ones are the ones that hate because you don't look like them. Bad and good people comes in all color shape and sizes. Now however if you trace back I find that White people tend to be the more ignorant. White have the highest hate group. Notice how its mostly White people killing, beating, stealing other cultures and selling as their own. I don't think White people should fear black people I think its the other way around. How many black men have died, how many are locked away how many mothers have been raped.

flea
09-07-2014, 09:45 PM
If you're a white person who is afraid of black people then you don't live in Atlanta anyway - you live in North Dakota.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 09:45 PM
Are you saying Donald Stern isn't racist, the girl just got into him?

No, Although I don't know how racist he really is. I just think he's maybe a bit of a punk.

I mean he was dating a half black girl. Also I'm sure he hired thousands of african americans in his life.
I'm sure he's invited african Americans into his home and been more than hospitable and polite and nice to them... Don't really know what his deal was in those phone conversations and such. But it did sound like he didn't want his so called "girl friend" to not sleep with other guys etc etc.

Too me ther are many african americans like yourself that have an inferiority complex and are always paranoid that someone is racist.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 09:49 PM
I notice that too. I think all humans are racist to a point good or bad. However the ignorant ones are the ones that hate because you don't look like them. Bad and good people comes in all color shape and sizes. Now however if you trace back I find that White people tend to be the more ignorant. White have the highest hate group. Notice how its mostly White people killing, beating, stealing other cultures and selling as their own.

ummm some of you comments here are COMPLETELY FALSE AND RACIST. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!

Punk
09-07-2014, 09:51 PM
I know Okc fans and they don't like the music that plays there. I've heard several fans voice their opinion about it.
Also know that they really only go because it's a winner and one of the top 2-3 teams in the entire NBA. They would stop going and buying merchandise the second they're a lottery team.

Only a truly great owner and someone that "sees all" can keep a loyal fanbase through the years. There's a lot you have to keep up. Things like logo, jersey design, court design, in game experience, in game music and gifts, game programs, even in game lighting, contests for kids before some games, etc. etc. And of course the players have to be good and well coached to want to pay to go see.

The Thunder were 20th in attandance during 2008 when they were a lottery team. That's significantly better than Atlanta the post-Joe Johnson era and the Hawks haven't been bad.

Even if a few fans don't necessarily like the music played in OKC, it doesn't hurt their attendance and a few fans compared to hundreds is a significant difference. Especially when OKC draws a 80-90% white dominated crowd.

BigCityofDreams
09-07-2014, 09:54 PM
I notice that too. I think all humans are racist to a point good or bad. However the ignorant ones are the ones that hate because you don't look like them. Bad and good people comes in all color shape and sizes. Now however if you trace back I find that White people tend to be the more ignorant. White have the highest hate group. Notice how its mostly White people killing, beating, stealing other cultures and selling as their own.

Reminds me of the Columbusing skit from College Humor lol. I think that might be a gripe that the black community has when it comes to things like this. Something is created in the inner city or the culture in general. It tends to be shunned/rejected. A few ppl do it, becomes mainstream and it's like hey it's ok now.


No, Although I don't know how racist he really is. I just think he's maybe a bit of a punk.

I mean he was dating a half black girl. Also I'm sure he hired thousands of african americans in his life.
I'm sure he's invited african Americans into his home and been more than hospitable and polite and nice to them... Don't really know what his deal was in those phone conversations and such. But it did sound like he didn't want his so called "girl friend" to not sleep with other guys etc etc.

Too me ther are many african americans like yourself that have an inferiority complex and are always paranoid that someone is racist.


Lol wow just wow.

Maybe because people often encounter someone with racial views. Obviously everything isn't racist and there are good people in the world but racism still exists. I know that's a tough thing for some ppl to come to terms with.

da ThRONe
09-07-2014, 09:59 PM
"Less Blacks, More Whites" -Hawks Owner-

More like less poor spender and more good spenders. The black white thing is just how he expressed it which was a bad decision on his part.

ldawg
09-07-2014, 10:01 PM
its real http://www.buzzfeed.com/adriancarrasquillo/meet-jose-zamora-the-guy-who-changed-his-name-to-joe-to-get

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 10:04 PM
I disagree on the Reddick point.

. Making the team better is a big thing. If the belief is southern white people are afraid to be around black people why would they spend money on a mediocre team surround by ppl they are afraid of. People come out to see winners. They are more willing to spend when they know the quality is good. If he wants more white fans improve the experience as a whole. Make it more family oriented so that way he's not excluding anyone. Pre game games and work shops with the fans. You can increase the white audience and still hold onto the black fans despite them being a blight on the organization. They can still play hip hop if they want. If the new stuff is to corrupted for some ppl go to an old school playlist. If they want some pop songs there are a host of good artists to choose from.




Maybe it's not racist in the literal sense but it's a bad point of view. The wording of it is cringe worthy.



The NBA has always sold hype. Are ppl forgetting how they searched high and low for the next Jordan. Players like Steve Francis and Marbury were the franchise players on teams lol.

Stern took the league from the era of tape delay to having some of the biggest stars in the world. I don't agree with everything he did but let's be honest he made some big strides.

So you're predicting the league to fall allow the're on an upswing what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I don't see how it's so offensive what he said unless you think it hits home a little??? If you don't believe it at all then you shouldn't bat an eye.

It was actually the Previous Owner that took the league from a tape delay on some Finals. I know of one that apparently was for a few games because there was a PGA tournament that day that lasted until 6. But it was that commissioner that truly brought the league from a 5 rating scale to a 14. He is the one that ushered in Jordan, Magic, Bird and many others. He's the one that combined the ABA and NBA and made a super league bring in stars like Julius Erving, Hawkins, and Gervin. He's the one that starting paying the players millions of dollars including the afircan americans millions of dollars.. .He was the first.. think about it. He was the one that advancded the viewer ratings and gained the huge deal with CBS in the 80's.

Confusious
09-07-2014, 10:08 PM
Crucify me if you want, but I have 0 problem with that email. Not even a little bit. He's identified a business problem with the business end of his team and is taking steps to correct it. He has data that identifies a demographic that is most likely to buy season tickets and he is trying to appeal to that demographic. IMO that's good business. Every single good business owner uses demographic data like that.

I'm sick of skin color being such a damn sensitive topic. Believe it or not black culture is different than white culture, and we shouldn't expect business owners to ignore that. Why is nobody complaining about ageism because he is trying to appeal to ages 35-55. Must mean he clearly hates teenagers right? He also says he's trying to appeal to males as well. Such a sexist email. Probably beats his wife when he goes home too. Get him out of the league. SMDH...
Agreed. I really find it funny how being racist means just mentioning a certain colour of skin now. Like, for example. You're out, and you comment on how a black man has a nice shirt. And your looks at you and gasps, "THAT'S RACIST!!!!!!!". Umm, the hell it ****ing is. Commenting on a person of colour is not racist. I wish people would look up what the word means.


rac·ist
ˈrāsist/Submit
noun
1.
a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
synonyms: racial bigot, racialist, xenophobe, chauvinist, supremacist More
adjective
noun: racist; plural noun: racists; adjective: racist
1.
having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another.

Okay, with that in mind, where in that email does it say that Levenson believes that whites are superior to blacks? Yes, he outlines that there are more black people than white people in attendance. That is not racist. He is not saying that he hates them. He is trying to find a way to make the game appeal to other people. And that is NEVER a bad thing.

Jesus christ people and their sensitive "racist" spearheading are almost as bad as real racism itself.

ldawg
09-07-2014, 10:09 PM
ummm some of you comments here are COMPLETELY FALSE AND RACIST. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!I know the truth hurts so I changed it up a bit. That was just 1%. Don't look at the fabricated history. Maybe you actually think America was white owned. Its seem like it right?

lamzoka
09-07-2014, 10:13 PM
No, Although I don't know how racist he really is. I just think he's maybe a bit of a punk.

I mean he was dating a half black girl. Also I'm sure he hired thousands of african americans in his life.
I'm sure he's invited african Americans into his home and been more than hospitable and polite and nice to them... Don't really know what his deal was in those phone conversations and such. But it did sound like he didn't want his so called "girl friend" to not sleep with other guys etc etc.

Too me ther are many african americans like yourself that have an inferiority complex and are always paranoid that someone is racist.


And then there are people like you, who think racism doesn't exist.

I'm done replying to u man, cuz u obviously have something against black people.


deuces

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 10:16 PM
The Thunder were 20th in attandance during 2008 when they were a lottery team. That's significantly better than Atlanta the post-Joe Johnson era and the Hawks haven't been bad.

Even if a few fans don't necessarily like the music played in OKC, it doesn't hurt their attendance and a few fans compared to hundreds is a significant difference. Especially when OKC draws a 80-90% white dominated crowd.

None of them like the music. They don't exactly have a choice now do they. And technically it's not music. Music requires a rhythm as well. You act like they're all requesting this poor hip hop that is really more like full out rap. They're not and they have no choice really. They should try to feel out what the fans want better. Maybe in a survey or something. Because I guarantee you the people in OKC that are paying the money would just chose a more positive pop music, or classic rock type music.
Also I think fans should have the final say and the entire say on the jerseys maybe.

Punk
09-07-2014, 10:17 PM
What's happening now isn't exactly racist but it is stereotyping. Sterling was totally racist. This guy is simply uneducated. He is wrong and comes off ignorant but our own generation does it to themselves.

In terms of "black culture", I can't speak for Atlanta but It's funny how the top rappers are Drake, Kendrick Lamar, J Cole, Wale, etc. They all have one thing in common: They don't rap about guns, selling drugs or killing which is why the NBA, MLB, NFL promote their music and brand.

The irony here is most hip hop cultured teenagers label most of them as "soft" or "lame" because they don't rap about violence or drug selling and they've actually done positive community oriented things. Drake is fake because he didn't grow up in the streets, Kendrick Lamar is fake because he valued education over compton gang relations. So, to be honest. Our own generation helps make it easier for these ignorant folks to express their tunnel vision opinions about our 'culture'. It really has to stop.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 10:20 PM
And then there are people like you, who think racism doesn't exist.

Nah man you got it all wrong. you don't even know what a racist comment is.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 10:22 PM
Reminds me of the Columbusing skit from College Humor lol. I think that might be a gripe that the black community has when it comes to things like this. Something is created in the inner city or the culture in general. It tends to be shunned/rejected. A few ppl do it, becomes mainstream and it's like hey it's ok now.




Lol wow just wow.

Maybe because people often encounter someone with racial views. Obviously everything isn't racist and there are good people in the world but racism still exists. I know that's a tough thing for some ppl to come to terms with.

uhmm

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 10:27 PM
What's happening now isn't exactly racist but it is stereotyping. Sterling was totally racist. This guy is simply uneducated. He is wrong and comes off ignorant but our own generation does it to themselves.

In terms of "black culture", I can't speak for Atlanta but It's funny how the top rappers are Drake, Kendrick Lamar, J Cole, Wale, etc. They all have one thing in common: They don't rap about guns, selling drugs or killing which is why the NBA, MLB, NFL promote their music and brand.

The irony here is most hip hop cultured teenagers label most of them as "soft" or "lame" because they don't rap about violence or drug selling and they've actually done positive community oriented things. Drake is fake because he didn't grow up in the streets, Kendrick Lamar is fake because he valued education over compton gang relations. So, to be honest. Our own generation helps make it easier for these ignorant folks to express their tunnel vision opinions about our 'culture'. It really has to stop.

It's young people you speak of with an inferority complex that think that like.

But really rap all together is stupid. Even past musicians like Smokey Robinson and Lionel Richie have all but come out and said this in public on the stage.

Punk
09-07-2014, 10:27 PM
None of them like the music. They don't exactly have a choice now do they. And technically it's not music. Music requires a rhythm as well. You act like they're all requesting this poor hip hop that is really more like full out rap. They're not and they have no choice really. They should try to feel out what the fans want better. Maybe in a survey or something. Because I guarantee you the people in OKC that are paying the money would just chose a more positive pop music, or classic rock type music.
Also I think fans should have the final say and the entire say on the jerseys maybe.

I don't see a reason to complain in the first place. In-game music has no lyrics attached. It's mainly the instrumental beat. Most pop music is attached to hip-hop nowadays. Taylor Swift has done songs with rappers and If I remember correctly, she has made her own hip-hop music. Same goes for Katy Perry, Miley Cyrus, A. Grande, Justin Bieber, etc. Would any of these fans complain if Maclemore was fine with OKC using their music? Probably not.

Jagged QT
09-07-2014, 10:28 PM
Agreed. I really find it funny how being racist means just mentioning a certain colour of skin now. Like, for example. You're out, and you comment on how a black man has a nice shirt. And your looks at you and gasps, "THAT'S RACIST!!!!!!!". Umm, the hell it ****ing is. Commenting on a person of colour is not racist. I wish people would look up what the word means.



Okay, with that in mind, where in that email does it say that Levenson believes that whites are superior to blacks? Yes, he outlines that there are more black people than white people in attendance. That is not racist. He is not saying that he hates them. He is trying to find a way to make the game appeal to other people. And that is NEVER a bad thing.

Jesus christ people and their sensitive "racist" spearheading are almost as bad as real racism itself.

Apparanetly what fans on a sports board think made a multi millionaire sell his shares.

Nope, try again. he realized what he said was wrong, should have left race completely out of it and likely was on the verge of getting caught. This owner isnt just trying to gain more white fans, he's on record as complaining that it's too many blacks compared to other arenas, and made some rather unproven and ridiculous assumptions. here's a piece of that....

"Gradually things have changed. My unscientific guess is that our crowd is 40 pct black now, still four to five times all other teams. And my further guess is that 40 pct still feels like 70 pet to some whites at our games. Our bars are still overwhelmingly black.

This is obviously a sensitive topic, but sadly i think it is far and way the number one reason our season ticket base is so low.

And many of our black fans don't have the spendable income which explains why our f&b and merchandise sales are so low. At all white thrasher games sales were nearly triple what they are at hawks games (the extra intermission explains some of that but not all)."

blahblahyoutoo
09-07-2014, 10:30 PM
Crucify me if you want, but I have 0 problem with that email. Not even a little bit. He's identified a business problem with the business end of his team and is taking steps to correct it. He has data that identifies a demographic that is most likely to buy season tickets and he is trying to appeal to that demographic. IMO that's good business. Every single good business owner uses demographic data like that.

I'm sick of skin color being such a damn sensitive topic. Believe it or not black culture is different than white culture, and we shouldn't expect business owners to ignore that. Why is nobody complaining about ageism because he is trying to appeal to ages 35-55. Must mean he clearly hates teenagers right? He also says he's trying to appeal to males as well. Such a sexist email. Probably beats his wife when he goes home too. Get him out of the league. SMDH...

Stats and facts are the races!!!!!11111!!!

blahblahyoutoo
09-07-2014, 10:32 PM
I'm talking about fixing games and rigging things. They disclosed all the info as opposed to trying to brush it under the table. That's all. They might have been able to facilitate a quiet selling of his shares and try to keep it a secret. That's it. There are no competitive ramifications of this either; it's neither going to hurt nor help the Hawks.


Also, I don't quite think that email is sell-worthy. It's sad that so many whites in the south act the way they do, to the extent that an owner would have to worry about things like this, but I think it was mostly a poor usage of words as opposed to outright bigotry and racism. It's mostly still just sad that they have to consider that type of marketing plan in the first place. However, it does come off as him chasing away blacks for the sole purpose of bringing in more whites...and all just for the $$$$$$$$$$$. That's not necessarily a good thing, especially for the NBA's image.


But whatever. Dude is about to get paid.

I for one think it's races cuz he be not mentioning the asians.

ldawg
09-07-2014, 10:33 PM
Agreed. I really find it funny how being racist means just mentioning a certain colour of skin now. Like, for example. You're out, and you comment on how a black man has a nice shirt. And your looks at you and gasps, "THAT'S RACIST!!!!!!!". Umm, the hell it ****ing is. Commenting on a person of colour is not racist. I wish people would look up what the word means.



Okay, with that in mind, where in that email does it say that Levenson believes that whites are superior to blacks? Yes, he outlines that there are more black people than white people in attendance. That is not racist. He is not saying that he hates them. He is trying to find a way to make the game appeal to other people. And that is NEVER a bad thing.

Jesus christ people and their sensitive "racist" spearheading are almost as bad as real racism itself.Well because what Black people and other minority groups had to go through and still go through on some levels yes. Its a very sensitive topic. Sure its petty to some but at the same time your talking about cutting out a certain group and catering to another. your goal should be to sell tickets no mater the color. Market your team get marketable players be a true contender people will come to your game. Instead you a talking color.

ldawg
09-07-2014, 10:34 PM
I for one think it's races cuz he be not mentioning the asians.lol

Punk
09-07-2014, 10:34 PM
It's young people you speak of with an inferority complex that think that like.

But really rap all together is stupid. Even past musicians like Smokey Robinson and Lionel Richie have all but come out and said this in public on the stage.
Rap all together is not 'stupid'. Music is subjective to the listener. If being able to put metaphors, undertone messages differently in tempos of a beat is stupid, poetry is equally as stupid.

Lionel Richie is honestly the last person to talk about stupid with the child he raised.

blahblahyoutoo
09-07-2014, 10:35 PM
As others said this isn't really racist so much as he's a bigot. I also agree with most of you that the dude leaked this himself and snitched on himself after he saw the payday Sterling got with the drama of the Clippers. This guy stereotyped, but it was more from the perspective of how he believes the FANS feel, more than himself.

that word does not mean what you think it does.

BigCityofDreams
09-07-2014, 10:37 PM
I don't see how it's so offensive what he said unless you think it hits home a little??? If you don't believe it at all then you shouldn't bat an eye.

It was actually the Previous Owner that took the league from a tape delay on some Finals. I know of one that apparently was for a few games because there was a PGA tournament that day that lasted until 6. But it was that commissioner that truly brought the league from a 5 rating scale to a 14. He is the one that ushered in Jordan, Magic, Bird and many others. He's the one that combined the ABA and NBA and made a super league bring in stars like Julius Erving, Hawkins, and Gervin. He's the one that starting paying the players millions of dollars including the afircan americans millions of dollars.. .He was the first.. think about it. He was the one that advancded the viewer ratings and gained the huge deal with CBS in the 80's.

I shouldn't bat an eye at someone who thinks southern whites think black people are scary??

It sounds like you want the league to fail.

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 10:40 PM
I don't see a reason to complain in the first place. In-game music has no lyrics attached. It's mainly the instrumental beat. Most pop music is attached to hip-hop nowadays. Taylor Swift has done songs with rappers and If I remember correctly, she has made her own hip-hop music. Same goes for Katy Perry, Miley Cyrus, A. Grande, Justin Bieber, etc. Would any of these fans complain if Maclemore was fine with OKC using their music? Probably not.

That's just it, none of those characters are musicians.

Real musicians or groups that make music are, and bare with me I'll list a few.
U2
Billy Idol
Moody Blues
Cars
Madonna 90's stuff was pretty good.
Tears for Fears
Gin Blossums
Alanis Morrsette
Collective Soul
etc etc

These are just a few.

BigCityofDreams
09-07-2014, 10:45 PM
uhmm

It's true it's tough for some ppl to handle. I understand your head is probably spinning right now. It's ok we'll walk you through this.

blahblahyoutoo
09-07-2014, 10:47 PM
Maybe he need to get some gay cheerleaders and a gay bar after all its close to midtown. Atlanta is no longer black populated its very mix. White people now live in the middle of areas that was once hood. They are getting in before it becomes to expensive. But yes you cant cater to only your black viewers. mix up the bars. mix up the music. Frank their DJ may not like that but as a dj you got to be able to cater to all kind of crowds. Hawks issue is Marketing not only in Atlanta but Georgia. Get better Star players.

question for someone that's never been to atlanta. these once hood areas... are they still hood after the whites moved in?

blahblahyoutoo
09-07-2014, 10:50 PM
They do play sorry rap during basketball games too much especially along the eastern teams atleast most of them and a few western teams.

But this is one of the reasons why the NBA experience isn't what it used to be 20 years ago. They're still just riding the wave that Jordan, Bird, Magic, Barkley, Robinson, Ewing and others made and the game experience from then. It is faltering in the last 10 or so years.

The NBA was more about the game at hand now it is about making money in the arena. But the funny thing is, it has the exact opposite affect that they want.

all those players you're naming from the 90's aren't the same characters as you see in the NBA today. it's really sad actually to see regression instead of progression.

blahblahyoutoo
09-07-2014, 10:51 PM
I hope you arent of the impression that the NBA is struggling. The NBA business is contantly growing.

I admit as a fan I enjoyed it more back in the late 70's and 80's, but the NBA is huge now...way more than back then.

how much has it grown within the US?
i'm thinking most of the growth is from overseas.

blahblahyoutoo
09-07-2014, 10:53 PM
I'm not offended,I just think this owner wrote down stupid and personal perception trying to make more money. And his strategy turned out to be a failure,while he probably just had to focus on getting a better team.
Do you want to increase diversity? Just make more friendly families events(as I said in another post) and get a good team for your city.Plus,if they gave free tickets to black people,they should also do that for white people.
This owner just made dumb statements and didn't understand what's the real problem of the Hawks.
And,by the way,I'm an italian with blond hair and blue eyes. Technically it can't be possible for me to get racially offended.

perception, or facts/stats?

ldawg
09-07-2014, 10:54 PM
Apparanetly what fans on a sports board think made a multi millionaire sell his shares.

Nope, try again. he realized what he said was wrong, should have left race completely out of it and likely was on the verge of getting caught. This owner isnt just trying to gain more white fans, he's on record as complaining that it's too many blacks compared to other arenas, and made some rather unproven and ridiculous assumptions. here's a piece of that....

"Gradually things have changed. My unscientific guess is that our crowd is 40 pct black now, still four to five times all other teams. And my further guess is that 40 pct still feels like 70 pet to some whites at our games. Our bars are still overwhelmingly black.

This is obviously a sensitive topic, but sadly i think it is far and way the number one reason our season ticket base is so low.

And many of our black fans don't have the spendable income which explains why our f&b and merchandise sales are so low. At all white thrasher games sales were nearly triple what they are at hawks games (the extra intermission explains some of that but not all)."If a black fan can buy a ticket he can buy the goods to. Yes because of history more whites can afford more but to say a black man who dress in sports wear like 70% of the time cant afford the goods at a game is faults. Just like the owner you are putting a color on it and that's not the problem. The problem is the Hawks sucks, How many good free agents say they want to sign with the Hawks? Do they even Market the Hawks besides one or two Marta bus? Half the fans cant name one player on the Hawks. You see the stadium full depending on who they are playing. Its not the color. Asians, Hispanics, Whites or who ever would go to the game if they are good. Miami was like that, Bobcats, OKC before KD, etc. He is trying to put a color on. My cousin live in a mostly white area and their Brands mart is closing while the other in a Hispanic/black Area is doing fine. What white people now cant afford their goods?

joeyc77
09-07-2014, 10:54 PM
I shouldn't bat an eye at someone who thinks southern whites think black people are scary??

It sounds like you want the league to fail.

In the email, he was speculating as to the reason white people weren't showing up to games. He said it was racism by southern whites if his thoughts were accurate.

The irony is that in trying to be hypersensitive and blame white people, he's being called the racist now.

blahblahyoutoo
09-07-2014, 10:57 PM
They play it too much at most arenas. I'm a very fair person, but they do play it too much and it's really not a cool choice of music and doens't even sound good. Most of it doens't even have a rhythm, it's just beats and words. Poor lyrics aswell.

It's not high quility music that increases the game experience.

I will say that there are not many good artist today that make music. Not like in the 90's when they could easily throw on a new current hit form U2 or someone that no one has really heard a lot as people are leaving the games.

I'm thinking they need to do thier best to choose from the artist of the 90's and late 90's and mix in a few 80's and maybe even a few 70's songs. But not too many cool sounding or creative sounding songs from the last 10 years.

to be fair, most music these days are ****** auto-tuned to hell songs from low talent "artists".
but I will agree that if there is a culture that i don't identify and assimilate with, i will go out of my way to avoid it.

it's like changing the radio station when a song you don't like comes on. except this time it's avoiding the game because of music and culture.

Jagged QT
09-07-2014, 11:03 PM
If a black fan can buy a ticket he can buy the goods to. Yes because of history more whites can afford more but to say a black man who dress in sports wear like 70% of the time cant afford the goods at a game is faults. Just like the owner you are putting a color on it and that's not the problem. The problem is the Hawks sucks, How many good free agents say they want to sign with the Hawks? Do they even Market the Hawks besides one or two Marta bus? Half the fans cant name one player on the Hawks. You see the stadium full depending on who they are playing. Its not the color. Asians, Hispanics, Whites or who ever would go to the game if they are good. Miami was like that, Bobcats, OKC before KD, etc. He is trying to put a color on. My cousin live in a mostly white area and their Brands mart is closing while the other in a Hispanic/black Area is doing fine. What white people now cant afford their goods?
What part of my post has me putting color as the balme? My post is faulting the owner for doing so.

Jeffy25
09-07-2014, 11:08 PM
And then there are people like you, who think racism doesn't exist.

I'm done replying to u man, cuz u obviously have something against black people.


deuces

Except, his comments here, are not racist.

not by the definition of racism any way.

blahblahyoutoo
09-07-2014, 11:12 PM
Except, his comments here, are not racist.

not by the definition of racism any way.

you can safely ignore lamzoka. he thinks anything said about blacks that's not 100% flattering is races.

Jagged QT
09-07-2014, 11:14 PM
Except, his comments here, are not racist.

not by the definition of racism any way.
ironic that the individual himself even states it as racist comments.....

“If you’re angry about what I wrote, you should be,” Levenson said in a statement released by the team. “I’m angry at myself, too. It was inflammatory nonsense. We all may have subtle biases and preconceptions when it comes to race, but my role as a leader is to challenge them, not to validate or accommodate those who might hold them.

“I have said repeatedly that the NBA should have zero tolerance for racism, and I strongly believe that to be true. That is why I voluntarily reported my inappropriate e-mail to the NBA.

blahblahyoutoo
09-07-2014, 11:15 PM
If a black fan can buy a ticket he can buy the goods to. Yes because of history more whites can afford more but to say a black man who dress in sports wear like 70% of the time cant afford the goods at a game is faults. Just like the owner you are putting a color on it and that's not the problem. The problem is the Hawks sucks, How many good free agents say they want to sign with the Hawks? Do they even Market the Hawks besides one or two Marta bus? Half the fans cant name one player on the Hawks. You see the stadium full depending on who they are playing. Its not the color. Asians, Hispanics, Whites or who ever would go to the game if they are good. Miami was like that, Bobcats, OKC before KD, etc. He is trying to put a color on. My cousin live in a mostly white area and their Brands mart is closing while the other in a Hispanic/black Area is doing fine. What white people now cant afford their goods?

nah, i disagree with you mang.
people with more income, and hence disposable income, are much more likely to buy ****. this should be obviously as **** to anyone.

so the question really for you now is... do you believe that whites on average make more money than blacks?

blahblahyoutoo
09-07-2014, 11:16 PM
ironic that the individual himself even states it as racist comments.....

“If you’re angry about what I wrote, you should be,” Levenson said in a statement released by the team. “I’m angry at myself, too. It was inflammatory nonsense. We all may have subtle biases and preconceptions when it comes to race, but my role as a leader is to challenge them, not to validate or accommodate those who might hold them.

“I have said repeatedly that the NBA should have zero tolerance for racism, and I strongly believe that to be true. That is why I voluntarily reported my inappropriate e-mail to the NBA.

because an individual can never be wrong. we must believe everything that comes out of someone's mouth.
gotcha.

Jeffy25
09-07-2014, 11:19 PM
ironic that the individual himself even states it as racist comments.....

“If you’re angry about what I wrote, you should be,” Levenson said in a statement released by the team. “I’m angry at myself, too. It was inflammatory nonsense. We all may have subtle biases and preconceptions when it comes to race, but my role as a leader is to challenge them, not to validate or accommodate those who might hold them.

“I have said repeatedly that the NBA should have zero tolerance for racism, and I strongly believe that to be true. That is why I voluntarily reported my inappropriate e-mail to the NBA.

Sounds like there are a lot of people that don't know what racism actually is defined as.

Ignorance and prejudice, sure, but this isn't racism. That email at least, wasn't racist.

BigCityofDreams
09-07-2014, 11:21 PM
nah, i disagree with you mang.
people with more income, and hence disposable income, are much more likely to buy ****. this should be obviously as **** to anyone.

so the question really for you now is... do you believe that whites on average make more money than blacks?

Don't the numbers suggest that they do? That should be the bigger question despite the strides that have been made why the gap in wealth between the two groups?

Jagged QT
09-07-2014, 11:24 PM
Sounds like there are a lot of people that don't know what racism actually is defined as.

Ignorance and prejudice, sure, but this isn't racism. That email at least, wasn't racist.

the entire email had a racist connotation.

Jeffy25
09-07-2014, 11:25 PM
the entire email had a racist connotation.

connotation?

That's a stretch.

The focus was demographic leveling, and focusing on a group that has a higher income. That isn't racist.

Jeffy25
09-07-2014, 11:26 PM
Don't the numbers suggest that they do? That should be the bigger question despite the strides that have been made why the gap in wealth between the two groups?

education and socio-economic disparity

Jagged QT
09-07-2014, 11:28 PM
connotation?

That's a stretch.

The focus was demographic leveling, and focusing on a group that has a higher income. That isn't racist.

Right. So how exactly does he target that "demographic"? By saying his current supporters are too black and their overwhleming presence is preventing that tageted demographic to appear,

Jeffy25
09-07-2014, 11:35 PM
Right. So how exactly does he target that "demographic"? By saying his current supporters are too black and their overwhleming presence is preventing that tageted demographic to appear,

He never actually says any of that.

He says


My theory is that the black crowd scared away the whites and there are simply not enough affluent black fans to build a signficant season ticket base. Please dont get me wrong. There was nothing threatening going on in the arean back then. i never felt uncomfortable, but i think southern whites simply were not comfortable being in an arena or at a bar where they were in the minority. On fan sites i would read comments about how dangerous it is around philips yet in our 9 years, i don't know of a mugging or even a pick pocket incident. This was just racist garbage. When I hear some people saying the arena is in the wrong place I think it is code for there are too many blacks at the games.

I have been open with our executive team about these concerns. I have told them I want some white cheerleaders and while i don't care what the color of the artist is, i want the music to be music familiar to a 40 year old white guy if that's our season tixs demo.

He wants to target a higher income demographic. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing that as a business owner.




It's funny that this is considered racist, but the MLB is openly trying to attract young black men to the game, and are very open about it. But nothing is thought of when they make very similar statements to that of Levenson here.

blahblahyoutoo
09-07-2014, 11:46 PM
education and socio-economic disparity

more like inner city black culture.

i alluded to it earlier in this thread, but players from the 80's and 90's had more integrity and were overall better characters than what we have today. they actually spoke proper english and didn't dress like buffoons with their pants below their arses.

somewhere along the line, blacks thought it was uncool to "act white" and shunned those around them that did. you became a sell out when you talked white, and acted white and cared about education.

but to be honest, it starts at home. when the dad isn't around during the child's impressionable years, who's there to teach them right from wrong? when mom is worrying about her weave and nails instead of the child's homework, how will they succeed? when their role model is the drug dealer downstairs, or the "aspiring rapper" that raps about nutting ho's and giving stitches to snitches, how will the child grow up to be a positively contributing member of society?

blahblahyoutoo
09-07-2014, 11:48 PM
Don't the numbers suggest that they do? That should be the bigger question despite the strides that have been made why the gap in wealth between the two groups?

our buddy over there seems to think that people with less money are as able to spend as those with more money.
i'm just trying to lead the horse to the water with that question.

if he can believe that whites make more money than blacks, then he can see the fallacy in his statement, amirite?

blahblahyoutoo
09-07-2014, 11:50 PM
Right. So how exactly does he target that "demographic"? By saying his current supporters are too black and their overwhleming presence is preventing that tageted demographic to appear,

because that's the truth? are facts racist?

Sonicsfan1980
09-07-2014, 11:55 PM
It's true it's tough for some ppl to handle. I understand your head is probably spinning right now. It's ok we'll walk you through this.

I didn't care to reply to the post but accidentally and couldn't delete it.

You seem to want there to be racism for some reason. You don't even know real racism. I bet you're 15 years old and have had handouts your entire life.

ldawg
09-07-2014, 11:59 PM
more like inner city black culture.

i alluded to it earlier in this thread, but players from the 80's and 90's had more integrity and were overall better characters than what we have today. they actually spoke proper english and didn't dress like buffoons with their pants below their arses.

somewhere along the line, blacks thought it was uncool to "act white" and shunned those around them that did. you became a sell out when you talked white, and acted white and cared about education.

but to be honest, it starts at home. when the dad isn't around during the child's impressionable years, who's there to teach them right from wrong? when mom is worrying about her weave and nails instead of the child's homework, how will they succeed? when their role model is the drug dealer downstairs, or the "aspiring rapper" that raps about nutting ho's and giving stitches to snitches, how will the child grow up to be a positively contributing member of society?I do see some ******* with pants below their but the average black man don't wear his pants below his ***. Also many Black men speak very good English. Why do a black man need to look white. Black men actually care about education. many black kids have black dads. Well if white women raise their own kids and stop worrying about their nails and stop the gossip at the local coffee shop. How can he be a contributing member of society if you already label him a no good piece of ****?

BigCityofDreams
09-07-2014, 11:59 PM
more like inner city black culture.

i alluded to it earlier in this thread, but players from the 80's and 90's had more integrity and were overall better characters than what we have today. they actually spoke proper english and didn't dress like buffoons with their pants below their arses.

somewhere along the line, blacks thought it was uncool to "act white" and shunned those around them that did. you became a sell out when you talked white, and acted white and cared about education.

but to be honest, it starts at home. when the dad isn't around during the child's impressionable years, who's there to teach them right from wrong? when mom is worrying about her weave and nails instead of the child's homework, how will they succeed? when their role model is the drug dealer downstairs, or the "aspiring rapper" that raps about nutting ho's and giving stitches to snitches, how will the child grow up to be a positively contributing member of society?

No people get shunned when they turn their black on their community and make it seem like the lives and people they are around are superior t o the ones they left behind. There is nothing wrong with dressing accordingly and wanting to be successful.

That might go for a portion in the community but not everyone. A majority of the friends I graduated with are married with degrees and raise children in a two family household. Even my friends 10 yrs older are the same.


I didn't care to reply to the post but accidentally and couldn't delete it.

You seem to want there to be racism for some reason. You don't even know real racism. I bet you're 15 years old and have had handouts your entire life.

Translation: I was going to ignore it but couldn't so I had to reply.

Translation: You have to be young because I think your ignorant on many things you believe is true.

You're batting 1.000 tonight man. You came out so strong on this issue. It's almost personal with you. Earlier you said:


Anyone can see you're a little racist bigcitydreams and they can see you get a kick out of the 40% black population in the Greater Atlanta area "taking over" the arena with "thier type stuff". With 75%

You also probably get a kick out of this man losing his career over something so little.

Then that was shot down so you come back with:


So would it be your goal to have 100% blacks at your games as an owner? Nothing but blacks?

Then that was shot down. I love interactions like this with ppl especially on the net. They twist themselves into a pretzel to try and make a gotcha moment but come up short every time. It's ok you're not the first and probably won't be the last.

What's real racism exactly? I've seen that a lot. Does it refer to segregation and separate fountains. I hope this convo isn't going the way it normally does. "Well real racism doesn't exist today we have a black president and real racism is not what ppl complain about in 2014"

No I'm not 15 if I was I would be getting ready for gym tomorrow or something along those lines.

No handouts either sorry. I know that disappoints you.

Sonicsfan1980
09-08-2014, 12:01 AM
more like inner city black culture.

i alluded to it earlier in this thread, but players from the 80's and 90's had more integrity and were overall better characters than what we have today. they actually spoke proper english and didn't dress like buffoons with their pants below their arses.

somewhere along the line, blacks thought it was uncool to "act white" and shunned those around them that did. you became a sell out when you talked white, and acted white and cared about education.

but to be honest, it starts at home. when the dad isn't around during the child's impressionable years, who's there to teach them right from wrong? when mom is worrying about her weave and nails instead of the child's homework, how will they succeed? when their role model is the drug dealer downstairs, or the "aspiring rapper" that raps about nutting ho's and giving stitches to snitches, how will the child grow up to be a positively contributing member of society?
agreed and you're very right about the NBA players in general had more integrity back then.

ldawg
09-08-2014, 12:07 AM
No people get shunned when they turn their black on their community and make it seem like the lives and people they are around are superior t o the ones they left behind. There is nothing wrong with dressing accordingly and wanting to be successful.

That might go for a portion in the community but not everyone. A majority of the friends I graduated with are married with degrees and raise children in a two family household. Even my friends 10 yrs older are the same.

that is just an out of touch person reciting what they were thought

blahblahyoutoo
09-08-2014, 12:08 AM
I do see some ******* with pants below their but the average black man don't wear his pants below his ***. Also many Black men speak very good English. Why do a black man need to look white. Black men actually care about education. many black kids have black dads. Well if white women raise their own kids and stop worrying about their nails and stop the gossip at the local coffee shop. How can he be a contributing member of society if you already label him a no good piece of ****?

the only people that accuse blacks of "acting white" are other fellow blacks. the rest of functioning society just calls it acting civil.

ldawg
09-08-2014, 12:09 AM
agreed and you're very right about the NBA players in general had more integrity back then.more like they had to put on a front to cater and had to top it off to marry a white women.

blahblahyoutoo
09-08-2014, 12:09 AM
No people get shunned when they turn their black on their community and make it seem like the lives and people they are around are superior t o the ones they left behind. There is nothing wrong with dressing accordingly and wanting to be successful.

That might go for a portion in the community but not everyone. A majority of the friends I graduated with are married with degrees and raise children in a two family household. Even my friends 10 yrs older are the same.

anecdotes.
statistics will tell you the full story.

BigCityofDreams
09-08-2014, 12:13 AM
that is just an out of touch person reciting what they were thought

True but I couldn't help myself lol.

ldawg
09-08-2014, 12:14 AM
the only people that accuse blacks of "acting white" are other fellow blacks. the rest of functioning society just calls it acting civil.

who else can accuse him of acting white? what is civil? civil to who? you worship clothes cars and material stuff. dude at the end of the day we all die. we leave with nothing. That's the problem with people if your not like them your no good. why should a man waste his time to be something he is not. Did it make Micheal Jackson a better person or a happier man? Never thought being white was the ultimate goal.

BigCityofDreams
09-08-2014, 12:15 AM
anecdotes.
statistics will tell you the full story.

So do these stats also break down how many black women are focused on their nails and weaves? I'll make sure to pass the info to my female friends. Don't be shy with the info now.

blahblahyoutoo
09-08-2014, 12:21 AM
So do these stats also break down how many black women are focused on their nails and weaves? I'll make sure to pass the info to my female friends. Don't be shy with the info now.

Do we really want to have a discussion about graduation/literacy/incarceration rates, out of wedlock childbirths, single family homes, crime?
Because it's not hard to dig up.

ldawg
09-08-2014, 12:22 AM
So do these stats also break down how many black women are focused on their nails and weaves? I'll make sure to pass the info to my female friends. Don't be shy with the info now.go in a nail shop you would be surprise who is in there. mostly white women.

ldawg
09-08-2014, 12:24 AM
Do we really want to have a discussion about graduation/literacy/incarceration rates, out of wedlock childbirths, single family homes, crime?
Because it's not hard to dig up.go dig it up then ask why is it so. don't just dig it it up get to the root cause.

BigCityofDreams
09-08-2014, 12:26 AM
Do we really want to have a discussion about graduation/literacy/incarceration rates, out of wedlock childbirths, single family homes, crime?
Because it's not hard to dig up.

But again you're labeling the entire race with that brush in your earlier post. There are issues in the black community no one will deny that. You can have the discussion since you seem to be very gung ho about it. "Hey look at the ills of the black community"


go in a nail shop you would be surprise who is in there. mostly white women.

Oh yea I've seen it before with my own eyes.

blahblahyoutoo
09-08-2014, 12:32 AM
who else can accuse him of acting white? what is civil? civil to who? you worship clothes cars and material stuff. dude at the end of the day we all die. we leave with nothing. That's the problem with people if your not like them your no good. why should a man waste his time to be something he is not. Did it make Micheal Jackson a better person or a happier man? Never thought being white was the ultimate goal.
You are so far off point, I'm not sure if I'm not explaining myself properly, or if you have reading comprehension issues.
serious, wtf are you talking about? being white is the ultimate goal? who said that?

blahblahyoutoo
09-08-2014, 12:34 AM
go dig it up then ask why is it so. don't just dig it it up get to the root cause.

i already explained what the root cause is. i'll repeat it again for you since you're having trouble keeping up.
poor parenting, e.g. childhood issues at home.

Jeffy25
09-08-2014, 12:38 AM
Also many Black men speak very good English. Why do a black man need to look white.
I don't know your race, and it doesn't matter. But this could be very ironic potentially

blahblahyoutoo
09-08-2014, 12:39 AM
But again you're labeling the entire race with that brush in your earlier post. There are issues in the black community no one will deny that. You can have the discussion since you seem to be very gung ho about it. "Hey look at the ills of the black community"

Oh yea I've seen it before with my own eyes.

Nope, someone axed and I responded.
And I did no such thing, labeling an entire race. I stated very specifically that it was inner city black culture, not all blacks. L2read my homie.

BigCityofDreams
09-08-2014, 12:41 AM
Nope, someone axed and I responded.
And I did no such thing, labeling an entire race. I stated very specifically that it was inner city black culture, not all blacks. L2read my homie.


Translation: I'm going to walk back what I said before.

Punk
09-08-2014, 12:41 AM
That's just it, none of those characters are musicians.

Real musicians or groups that make music are, and bare with me I'll list a few.
U2
Billy Idol
Moody Blues
Cars
Madonna 90's stuff was pretty good.
Tears for Fears
Gin Blossums
Alanis Morrsette
Collective Soul
etc etc

These are just a few.

That's YOUR opinion. That's NOT a fact. Like I said, music is subjective. I'm 100% sure none of those groups mention or can relate to people in the middle and lower class struggling growing up or the struggles of maintaining success. Did you know those 'real musicians' get their newer albums produced by Hip Hop producers like Phrarrel Williams,Timberland, Dr. Dre, Rick Ruben?

Are R&B artists not 'real' musicians because they are related to Hip Hop music?

Phenomenonsense
09-08-2014, 12:41 AM
I don't really see the racist-ness of what he was saying. He was commenting on numbers. If the major demographic of season ticket holders are 35-55 white males, and they are wondering why there aren't enough season ticket holders, it seems obvious that trying to attract that demographic, and looking at what demographic they currently have (more black people, by his crude estimations). If the current demographic, simply by being black, is scaring off a bunch of racist (scared, by his terminology) white men, then doing things to create a different culture around the arena would be the logical path any business that wants to make money should take.

It seems more like a company who sees the profit machines (whites, males) as being driven away by SOMETHING (because their numbers are much lower than the other 29 teams in the league) and he is trying to reason out why that is. It isn't his fault that the black demographic of season ticket holders weren't making up for the missing white demographic. This is overly sensitive ********.

ldawg
09-08-2014, 12:42 AM
i already explained what the root cause is. i'll repeat it again for you since you're having trouble keeping up.
poor parenting, e.g. childhood issues at home.thats not the root cause do your home work go further back.

blahblahyoutoo
09-08-2014, 12:43 AM
I don't know your race, and it doesn't matter. But this could be very ironic potentially

I picked up on that too.
I'm guessing he's black.

BigCityofDreams
09-08-2014, 12:44 AM
He's black.
Don't axe me how I know.
Hint: it's not from where he's aligned himself wrt the discussion.

How can you be so sure. He could be any race.

Unless you're just trying to be funny.

I see you took out the last part of your post as well as the axe me phrase. Which is something ppl do when they make fun of black ppl. It's axe instead of ask. I guess someone finds it funny.


Welp, since you're just resorting to lies now, my discussion with you is over.

Translation: You got me I'm leaving now.

blahblahyoutoo
09-08-2014, 12:45 AM
Translation: I'm going to walk back what I said before.

Welp, since you're just resorting to lies now, my discussion with you is over.

blahblahyoutoo
09-08-2014, 12:47 AM
thats not the root cause do your home work go further back.

since you're so confident that you have the answer and that I'm wrong, just tell me so we can try to have an intelligent debate on it.

Phenomenonsense
09-08-2014, 12:50 AM
since you're so confident that you have the answer and that I'm wrong, just tell me so we can try to have an intelligent debate on it.

I don't know why, but I just get the feeling he is going to say slavery.

fingerbang
09-08-2014, 12:51 AM
Owners want to maximize profits. They want to attract the demographic that spends the most money which is corporate guys in suits that are 30+ years old. His problem is... he bought a team in ****ing Atlanta. There's a big black population in Atlanta, you're gonna get a lot of black people at the games. It's not NY, it's a meh sports market. You're not pricing out the common folk like they do in NY.

Racist? No, not really. Basically just some owner who thinks he's going to attract a NY/LA crowd in a city that isn't NY or LA and with a team that doesn't have a big draw. Not happening.

And the fact that they play hip hop and have black cheerleaders is irrelevant. Basketball games tend to have an "urban" spin all over the country.

BigCityofDreams
09-08-2014, 01:03 AM
I don't know why, but I just get the feeling he is going to say slavery.

He could who knows we'll have to wait and see.

An author for the Atlantic wrote an article on reparations. I know I know the R word. The piece wasn't just give black people a ton of money and problem solved. It was an eye opening read on the destruction of black families through redlining, block busting, and other methods. It was sad to be honest with you. Not sure people would want to read that though. That's not to say black community shouldn't work hard because they have strides have been made but there is still a ways to go.

Honest question: If the black community became an economic powerhouse would ppl be ok with it? I'm not saying black people would use the money and clout to takeover but if they improved the economic conditions of their people would the general public be happy or would they feel a certain way. I ask that question because there have been moments in history when black people have taken a step forward their conditions and then it's met with hatred: Tulsa Oklahoma bombing, Jim Crow, etc.

Jeffy25
09-08-2014, 01:05 AM
He could. An author for the Atlantic wrote an article on Reparations. I know I know the R word. The piece wasn't just give black people a ton of money and problem solved. It was an eye opening read on the destruction of black families through redlining, block busting, and other methods. It was sad to be honest with you. Not sure people would want to read that though. That's not to say black community shouldn't work hard because they have strides have been made but there is still a ways to go.

Honest question: If the black community became an economic powerhouse would ppl be ok with it? I'm not saying black people would use the money and clout to takeover but if they improved the economic conditions of their people would the general public be happy or would they feel a certain way. I ask that question because there have been moments in history when black people have taken a step forward their conditions and then it's met with hatred: Tulsa Oklahoma bombing, Jim Crow, etc.

Pretty sad to think some people would probably have a problem with it.

I wouldn't, if they became the financial and economic powerhouse of America, then you learn to cater to their demographic better lol. At least I would.

BigCityofDreams
09-08-2014, 01:10 AM
Pretty sad to think some people would probably have a problem with it.

I wouldn't, if they became the financial and economic powerhouse of America, then you learn to cater to their demographic better lol. At least I would.

I know but some ppl would have a problem with it. As weird as it might sound. I know members in here are probably sharing their head but it's true. It would definitely bother some folks if it happened.

Phenomenonsense
09-08-2014, 02:58 AM
I don't think there would be nearly as much backlash if black people were a large(er) powerhouse. I think the media hypes up this disgusting criminal/*****es and money/etc culture that predominates low-socioeconomic black neighborhoods, and for whatever reason the people in those neighborhoods buy into it. I think that if that cultural sub-group were, say, half as economically relevant in politics as major corporations owned by old white racist, I would probably have a problem with it. I think, at this point, the perpetuation of that culture is going to be the single most limiting factor in the advancement of black people in society. (once all the old super-racist white guys who are in power but are dying off as the younger generations who have been taught love and tolerance for everyone take over). I do not want that culture to spread. I grew up there, I left there, and I never want to see it become any more prevalent than it is.

And, for anyone stupid enough, that isn't racist. I think the same thing of my step-brothers who think they're going to be rappers by singing about drugs, killin, and *****es, or the "gangsta" **** they're involved in. I don't want them in power. I think they're brainwashed by stupidity and that they stay willfully ignorant when the whole of human knowledge is as their ****ing fingertips, but they use it to watch vines and "tlk bout dat real shyt."

PurpleLynch
09-08-2014, 06:28 AM
He never actually says any of that.

He says



He wants to target a higher income demographic. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing that as a business owner.




It's funny that this is considered racist, but the MLB is openly trying to attract young black men to the game, and are very open about it. But nothing is thought of when they make very similar statements to that of Levenson here.

Maybe because MLB is trying to get to the stadium people who in general have lower income,while Hawks's owner theorized that the lack of white people("southern white" as he called them)were scared of black people,so the solution was lowering black people in the Hawks staff/audience to gather more white people.

The question that all of you that are defending this email should answer is: do you think that lowering black staff/audience will gather more white people? Because that's what was implied in the e-mail.

PurpleLynch
09-08-2014, 06:32 AM
more like inner city black culture.

i alluded to it earlier in this thread, but players from the 80's and 90's had more integrity and were overall better characters than what we have today. they actually spoke proper english and didn't dress like buffoons with their pants below their arses.

somewhere along the line, blacks thought it was uncool to "act white" and shunned those around them that did. you became a sell out when you talked white, and acted white and cared about education.

but to be honest, it starts at home. when the dad isn't around during the child's impressionable years, who's there to teach them right from wrong? when mom is worrying about her weave and nails instead of the child's homework, how will they succeed? when their role model is the drug dealer downstairs, or the "aspiring rapper" that raps about nutting ho's and giving stitches to snitches, how will the child grow up to be a positively contributing member of society?

So in your opinion black people were more integrated in US society in the '80-'90? More than NOW?

The bolded is just pure Billy O'Reilly level of stereotyping people:hell,I even seen a youtube video with him where he generalized that adult male blacks look like drug dealer. Billy,are you there?

MILLERHIGHLIFE
09-08-2014, 08:11 AM
Per Ziller, he is one of 7 co-owners and this probably has zero implications in regards to relocation.

Also, for those who feel the NBA is so nefarious, secretive and potentially manipulative even, they came out with the truth here without being provoked to, as opposed to having him quietly selling his shares.

Actually he's majority owner according to this article.

http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2014/09/07/nba-rumors-atlanta-hawks-could-be-on-their-way-to-seattle/

Mentions Hawks been in playoffs seven years in a row and barely any fan support. Mentions Seattle and St. Louis would be interested as buyers if they relocate. Last time Hawks won a championship was in St. Louis.

valade16
09-08-2014, 08:53 AM
I do find it ironic that the same people in here saying this email is OK because he's simply trying to pinpoint his demographics and business plan are the same people who said the best way to get rid of racism is to not talk about it in the Mike Brown thread.

Apparently it is OK to talk about race when you're trying to make money but not when you're trying to fix complex social issues.

Punk
09-08-2014, 09:01 AM
Honest question: If the black community became an economic powerhouse would ppl be ok with it? I'm not saying black people would use the money and clout to takeover but if they improved the economic conditions of their people would the general public be happy or would they feel a certain way. I ask that question because there have been moments in history when black people have taken a step forward their conditions and then it's met with hatred: Tulsa Oklahoma bombing, Jim Crow, etc.

Of course. The reality is alot of racism exists in the south. Not stereotyping but pure 'I should be better than you' racism. I've seen it and I've even experienced it.

The reality is we would see alot of people making rigidity comments like this about fears that the black community would dominate our finances and that puts us at risk. There is absolutely a pecentage of America that would dislike it or feel uncomfortable.

We've already seen expensive clothing stores in Manhattan detain blacks because the store manager felt it was suspicious for a young black individuals to be able to afford name brand clothing. Despite the fact, the individuals accused were vastly edcuated and employed college students.

From what I've seen is middle class or lower class white people get along black people. They mix within' each other's culture. When it trickles down to Suburban and Country whites, it becomes a slippery slope.

c.c.
09-08-2014, 09:09 AM
Easy fix.
Build an all white team and see how many blacks will show up to games.

If an all white team was put together, what would your starting five look like. And by the way your team gotta be American born full blooded white basketball players (no Canadians). That means no Dirk Nowitzki, no Joakim Noah, Deron Williams, Steven Adams, etc.

Pg-Steve Black
Sg- JJ Redick
Sf- Chandler Parsons
Pf- Kevin Love
C- Miles Plumlee

ldawg
09-08-2014, 09:22 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kti9O87Ok_I

Sonicsfan1980
09-08-2014, 09:22 AM
If an all white team was put together, what would your starting five look like. And by the way your team gotta be American born full blooded white basketball players (no Canadians). That means no Dirk Nowitzki, no Joakim Noah, Deron Williams, Steven Adams, etc.

Pg-Steve Black
Sg- JJ Redick
Sf- Chandler Parsons
Pf- Kevin Love
C- Miles Plumlee

Rather have Gordon Heyward at the shooting gaurd. He's like 6'6 210 with a good vert of 36 inches off two legs coming out of college. Don't know if he's continued to work on it as I really don't watch many Jazz games these days. He was one of the best college players in the Nation coming out of Butler.

ldawg
09-08-2014, 09:26 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Jz7JRLuYJM

Punk
09-08-2014, 09:27 AM
ESPN is reporting the player Danny Ferry filed a background check on and made a racist remark about was Loul Deng.


Yikes.

c.c.
09-08-2014, 09:28 AM
And maybe Hinrich at the point guard or Barea. PR, is pretty much a province of the US

I think Barea would be considered Latino

Sonicsfan1980
09-08-2014, 09:32 AM
I think Barea would be considered Latino

Yeah, I erased that part, plus I don't really like Hinrichs game anymore. I liked his game somewhat like 7 years ago.

Seems to me the NBA doesn't allow Anglo Saxon point gaurds in the league anymore which is easily the most racist thing going right now in America.

Mark Price would destroy any pg today.

c.c.
09-08-2014, 09:38 AM
Yeah, I erased that part, plus I don't really like Hinrichs game anymore. I liked his game somewhat like 7 years ago.

Seems to me the NBA doesn't allow Anglo Saxon point gaurds in the league anymore which is easily the most racist thing going right now in America.

Mark Price would destroy any pg today.

So who would be your starting five? Lol I think this is thread worthy, I'm very curious of other PSD users opinions on this.

c.c.
09-08-2014, 09:44 AM
If an all white team was put together, what would your starting five look like. And by the way your team gotta be American born full blooded white basketball players (no Canadians). That means no Dirk Nowitzki, no Joakim Noah, Deron Williams, Steven Adams, etc.

Pg-Steve Black
Sg- JJ Redick
Sf- Chandler Parsons
Pf- Kevin Love
C- Miles Plumlee

In a response to this, I'll make an all African American squad

Pg- Chris Paul
Sg - James Harden
Sf- Kevin Durant
PF- Lebron James
C - Dwight Howard

Who wins and what the score will be

Sonicsfan1980
09-08-2014, 09:47 AM
So who would be your starting five? Lol I think this is thread worthy, I'm very curious of other PSD users opinions on this.

Don't really know, I'm sure there are plenty of Americans that don't get a real chance in high school or college.

I could find them in high school and get them ready for the NBA there.

But it would make for good competitive games. Much like Celtics vs Lakers.

Sonicsfan1980
09-08-2014, 09:53 AM
In a response to this, I'll make an all African American squad

Pg- Chris Paul
Sg - James Harden
Sf- Kevin Durant
PF- Lebron James
C - Dwight Howard

Who wins and what the score will be

No one knows who would win

pacofunk64
09-08-2014, 10:14 AM
Crucify me if you want, but I have 0 problem with that email. Not even a little bit. He's identified a business problem with the business end of his team and is taking steps to correct it. He has data that identifies a demographic that is most likely to buy season tickets and he is trying to appeal to that demographic. IMO that's good business. Every single good business owner uses demographic data like that.

I'm sick of skin color being such a damn sensitive topic. Believe it or not black culture is different than white culture, and we shouldn't expect business owners to ignore that. Why is nobody complaining about ageism because he is trying to appeal to ages 35-55. Must mean he clearly hates teenagers right? He also says he's trying to appeal to males as well. Such a sexist email. Probably beats his wife when he goes home too. Get him out of the league. SMDH...

I agree with you Bulldog. I'm going to use the Iowa Hawkeyes basketball team as an example. The crowd can be somewhat...boring. If you look at the age group there are a lot of older people that attend. Which is fine, no problem with that at all, but no doubt if you want a louder, maybe more hostile crowd, you want a younger age group in there.

ldawg
09-08-2014, 10:17 AM
Obama got to be the coolest and most clever president ever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eJpWOY3r18

InRoseWeTrust
09-08-2014, 10:28 AM
Obama got to be the coolest and most clever president ever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eJpWOY3r18

Ummmm.....relevance?

SLY WILLIAMS
09-08-2014, 10:30 AM
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar @kaj33 6:50 AM ET

Bruce Levenson Isn’t a Racist, He’s a Businessman

Sure, there are assumptions he makes that are cringe-worthy—but the questions about how to attract more white fans were entirely reasonable.

Well, the pitchforks are already sharpened and the torches lit anyway, so rather than let them go to waste why not drag another so-called racist before the Court of Public Opinion and see how much ratings-grabbing, head-shaking, race-shaming we can squeeze out of it. After all, the media got so much gleeful, hand-wringing mileage out of Don Sterling and Michael Brown.

The only problem is that Atlanta Hawks controlling owner Bruce Levenson is no Donald Sterling. Nor is his email racist. In fact, his worst crime is misguided white guilt.

I read Levenson’s email. Here’s what I concluded: Levenson is a businessman asking reasonable questions about how to put customers in seats. In the email, addressed to Hawks President Danny Ferry, Levenson wonders whether (according to his observations) the emphasis on hip-hop and gospel music, the fact that the cheerleaders are black, the bars are filled with 90 percent blacks, kiss-cams focus on black fans, and timeout contestants are always black has an effect on keeping away white fans.

Seems reasonable to ask those questions. If his arena was filled mostly with whites and he wanted to attract blacks, wouldn’t he be asking how they could de-emphasize white culture and bias toward white contestants and cheerleaders? Don’t you think every corporation in America that is trying to attract a more diverse customer base is discussing how to feature more blacks or Asians or Latinos in their TV ads?

Back when the original Law & Order first launched, there was a cast shake-up, adding more females, reportedly in an effort to attract more women viewers. MTV shows like Finding Carter and Teen Wolf can’t get through an emotional scene without a pop song coming in to sing to the viewer what they should be feeling because that’s what their demographic wants. Car companies hire specialized advertising agencies to create ads to appeal specifically to women, blacks, and Latinos. That’s business.

Sure, there are a few assumptions he makes that make me cringe a little: “My theory is that the black crowd scared away the whites and there are simply not enough affluent black fans to build a significant season ticket base.” On the other hand, I have no evidence that he’s wrong on either count. Even if he is, the question still needed to be raised because racism is a realistic possibility as to why whites in Atlanta, Georgia may not be coming.

To Levenson’s credit, in that same paragraph, he dismisses fans who complained about the arena’s site as being code for racist fear that “there are too many blacks at the games.” He further decries the white perception that even though the percentage of blacks in attendance had lessened, that they still feel it’s higher and therefore somehow threatening. His outrage seems authentic.

Business people should have the right to wonder how to appeal to diverse groups in order to increase business. They should even be able to make minor insensitive gaffs if there is no obvious animosity or racist intent. This is a business email that is pretty harmless in terms of insulting anyone — and pretty fascinating in terms of seeing how the business of running a team really works.

The thing that makes me mad is that Levenson was too quick to rend his clothing and shout mea culpa. In his apology, he wrote: “By focusing on race, I also sent the unintentional and hurtful message that our white fans are more valuable than our black fans.” But that’s not the message in the email at all. If the seats had all been filled, even if all by blacks, the email wouldn’t have been written. He wasn’t valuing white fans over blacks, he was trying to figure out a way to change what he thought was the white perception in Atlanta so he could sell more tickets. That’s his job.http://time.com/3296175/bruce-levenson-atlanta-hawks-racist-email-kareem-abdul-jabbar/

ldawg
09-08-2014, 10:59 AM
Ummmm.....relevance?Ummmm nothing

ldawg
09-08-2014, 11:02 AM
I don't think he was being racist but he could have been more clever.

BigCityofDreams
09-08-2014, 11:04 AM
I don't think there would be nearly as much backlash if black people were a large(er) powerhouse. I think the media hypes up this disgusting criminal/*****es and money/etc culture that predominates low-socioeconomic black neighborhoods, and for whatever reason the people in those neighborhoods buy into it. I think that if that cultural sub-group were, say, half as economically relevant in politics as major corporations owned by old white racist, I would probably have a problem with it. I think, at this point, the perpetuation of that culture is going to be the single most limiting factor in the advancement of black people in society. (once all the old super-racist white guys who are in power but are dying off as the younger generations who have been taught love and tolerance for everyone take over). I do not want that culture to spread. I grew up there, I left there, and I never want to see it become any more prevalent than it is.

And, for anyone stupid enough, that isn't racist. I think the same thing of my step-brothers who think they're going to be rappers by singing about drugs, killin, and *****es, or the "gangsta" **** they're involved in. I don't want them in power. I think they're brainwashed by stupidity and that they stay willfully ignorant when the whole of human knowledge is as their ****ing fingertips, but they use it to watch vines and "tlk bout dat real shyt."

The problem is they are being replaced by some of the young super racist people. I'm not saying that achieving what you stated won't happen but a belief I've seen a lot is "the world is changing and old guys like Sterling are a thing of the past." Well what about the 14 with racist views or the 25 who feels the same way or the middle aged man who has a outdated thought process and won't change for anyone.

Mr.ATLHawks
09-08-2014, 12:03 PM
I think the owner was fine until he started talking about "Blacks Scare Whites". If it was an intelligent business analysis then he wouldn't have arrived at such a shallow conclusion as that. Living in Atlanta I can tell you why "whites" don't attend the games. Its because they don't care about Basketball in the State of Georgia. Georgia is all about Football Football Football. Falcons and Braves stadiums are pretty much located in the same area as Phillips Arena so if that was the case, then why can the Falcons pack a stadium and the Braves. Until the culture in Atlanta changes then the crowd will be predominately black.

knickerbockerny
09-08-2014, 12:04 PM
Im going to start by taking a micro look at the Levenson issue than a macro.

First things first I would like to say that I don't think Mr. Levenson is a racist, but I would like to say his opinion in the letter has prejudices, biases, and were unfounded. The guy was just ranting about a product was not selling, he was frustrated and went off the deep in with such remarks ("theories") as "My theory is that the black crowd scared away the whites and there are simply not enough affluent black fans to build a signficant season ticket base." Comments like that one unfounded, prejudiced and biased.

Second, I would like to state that although the Hawks have made the playoffs the last 7 years, the NBA is a star driven league. Stars like Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Melo, Durant, etc. are going to sell out arenas wherever the play, home or away. Fans in this day and age, where there is social media and more people are socially aware tend to be more player oriented then team oriented. Wherever Lebron goes, he takes Lebron nation with him. Millions of Heat fans are now back to Cavalier fans. The Hawks lack that transcendent player/personality to sell Hawks basketball and haven't had that since they traded away Dominique Wilkins.

Third, for the most part only major cities can continue to support a losing or lackluster product. Teams are constantly looking to relocate or have relocated because fans will not support losing (Seattle, Sacramento, Vancover, Milwaukee, New Jersey, etc.) Whereas teams like the Knicks, Lakers, Clippers, Orlando, Houston, etc. are a big draw regardless of record.

Fourth, Atlanta has become a transient city, with many of there residents having migrated from other parts of the country. In the mid 60s, Atlanta had a popolace under 1 million, now they have a populace at about 5 million. Majority of these folks allegiance are to other cities, like New York, Boston, L.A. etc. Im a Knicks fan and mosts games along the Atlantic coast, us Knicks fans may outnumber the home crowd, whether the game is in DC, Atlanta, Miami, or Charlotte.

Fifth, out of the 4 major sports, the NFL seems to be the only ones that have things right. There are two many games in the NBA period, and these games are at times played at during slots that makes attendance difficult. One of Levensons complaints was that there are few father and sons at the games. I have a question, how feasible is it for a father to bring a son to a 7:30pm game on a school night? its not too feasible given the traffic to and from the arena and an on average 3 hour game, the family give or take will return home at midnight. The NFL on the other hand plays the majority of their games on weekends, during the day, and have a 17 game regular season, completely opposite of the other major sports.

Sixth, overall the increase in technology, will continue to decrease attendance at sporting events.

These are the issues that Mr. Levenson and the NBA should be trying to tackle, and not use prejudices in accessing the attendance problems. Levenson and the Hawks need to do a better job with player personal (recruiting, drafting, development, marketing, etc.). Bottom line, put a better product on the court and people will come.

Phenomenonsense
09-08-2014, 12:08 PM
The problem is they are being replaced by some of the young super racist people. I'm not saying that achieving what you stated won't happen but a belief I've seen a lot is "the world is changing and old guys like Sterling are a thing of the past." Well what about the 14 with racist views or the 25 who feels the same way or the middle aged man who has a outdated thought process and won't change for anyone.

The business men of America are educated, and the educated man has been being force fed equality and tolerance for at least the past twenty years. There has been a huge swing in culture. The very fact that the media RUSHES to gobble up this 'racist' email is proof enough. I wouldn't venture to say that Racism is a thing of the past because people will always have prejudices and biases. That's how the human brain works. It generalizes **** for ease of use. (Hell, our ancestors couldn't take time to wonder if "This" predator was nicer than the last, or if "these" berries were somehow less poisonous than the ones that looked just like them).

None of those people you mention matter. They simply don't. Racism doesn't matter, and shouldn't matter to anyone. If someone wants to hate another based on race then they would find a million different reasons to hate that same person if we "eliminated" racism. What is important is discrimination, the acting upon racism in a way that actually affects people. With our culture, that is most definitely dying out.

Phenomenonsense
09-08-2014, 12:15 PM
Im going to start by taking a micro look at the Levenson issue than a macro.

First things first I would like to say that I don't think Mr. Levenson is a racist, but I would like to say his opinion in the letter has prejudices, biases, and were unfounded. The guy was just ranting about a product was not selling, he was frustrated and went off the deep in with such remarks ("theories") as "My theory is that the black crowd scared away the whites and there are simply not enough affluent black fans to build a signficant season ticket base." Comments like that one unfounded, prejudiced and biased.


These are the issues that Mr. Levenson and the NBA should be trying to tackle, and not use prejudices in accessing the attendance problems. Levenson and the Hawks need to do a better job with player personal (recruiting, drafting, development, marketing, etc.). Bottom line, put a better product on the court and people will come.

I'm going to assume you meant assessing. The prejudice and biases you were whining about are never going to go away, see my last post if you need help understanding why. Your post is kind of dumb, if I can say it simply. Of course the theory he posited was "unfounded." If they founded a reason, there wouldn't be a need for the theory. If, for example, they went through with this plan to bring in the demographic they wanted, and it didn't work, then this person wouldn't be continuously arguing for the theory. This man is worried about making money.

And why would you talk as though the prejudices in the sentence you posted were his? If anything he's being prejudice against white people, believing the 35-55 white demographic to be racist old farts who are too afraid of change in culture to come to a game.

PurpleLynch
09-08-2014, 12:49 PM
I'm going to assume you meant assessing. The prejudice and biases you were whining about are never going to go away, see my last post if you need help understanding why. Your post is kind of dumb, if I can say it simply. Of course the theory he posited was "unfounded." If they founded a reason, there wouldn't be a need for the theory. If, for example, they went through with this plan to bring in the demographic they wanted, and it didn't work, then this person wouldn't be continuously arguing for the theory. This man is worried about making money.

And why would you talk as though the prejudices in the sentence you posted were his? If anything he's being prejudice against white people, believing the 35-55 white demographic to be racist old farts who are too afraid of change in culture to come to a game.

He was trying to say that things backing up his theory are unfounded. And so his theory.

Theory of relativity is still a theory and could be wrong,but right now is widely accepted because it has experimental evidences.
This "theory" was based of prejudices that can't count as experimental evidences. He just left a lot of factors out of his "theory" and those were the most important (and not race related) factors(NFL more followed in the area than Nba,mediocre team,mediocre front office etc.)

He probably isn't a racist,but he showed a lot of prejudices. And his e-mail had clear racial tones.

Jeffy25
09-08-2014, 12:53 PM
Not that there wasn't anything terribly racist here

But we see something like this basically every week in baseball

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/11483181/seattle-mariners-manager-mlb-not-reaching-blacks

Baseball isn't reaching blacks, and it's a problem.

But an internal email about demographics to reach a higher income clintele is racist.

Why is it racist? Because his comments are read as negative toward a minority, McClendon's aren't.

Punk
09-08-2014, 01:00 PM
Danny Ferry's Racial Comments On Deng:


Yahoo Sports:

"He's still a young guy overall," Ferry said, league sources with direct knowledge of the probe told Yahoo. “He's a good guy overall. But he's not perfect. He's got some African in him. And I don't say that in a bad way."

This is pretty ugly.

lamzoka
09-08-2014, 01:01 PM
The trigger of events that led to the toppling of Atlanta Hawks owner Bruce Levenson began with general manager Danny Ferry referring to free agent Luol Deng as still having "some African in him" on an organizational conference call, league sources with direct knowledge of the probe told Yahoo Sports.

"He's still a young guy overall," Ferry said, league sources with direct knowledge of the probe told Yahoo. “He's a good guy overall. But he's not perfect. He's got some African in him. And I don't say that in a bad way."


Deng, considered one of the highest character players in the NBA, was born in the Sudan.
The call with the ownership group had been set up to inform them of free-agent options on the market in July. -Woj-

What the **** does that even mean "He's not perfect. He got some African in him"?

We live in a crazy ****ing world man.

Jeffy25
09-08-2014, 01:06 PM
I do find it ironic that the same people in here saying this email is OK because he's simply trying to pinpoint his demographics and business plan are the same people who said the best way to get rid of racism is to not talk about it in the Mike Brown thread.

Apparently it is OK to talk about race when you're trying to make money but not when you're trying to fix complex social issues.
Because this is another example of finding racism where there isn't

SLY WILLIAMS
09-08-2014, 01:11 PM
-Woj-

What the **** does that even mean "He's not perfect. He got some African in him"? We live in a crazy ****ing world man

I have no clue what that means. I could read in to it and guess something very negative but when he says not in a bad way I'm not sure what he was getting at.

Edit: Apparently some media sources are now saying Ferry was actually reading a scouts words from a scouting report not using his own words. Still Ferry probably should have thought twice before reading those last 2 lines out loud even if they were the scouts words.

PurpleLynch
09-08-2014, 01:13 PM
Danny Ferry's Racial Comments On Deng:



This is pretty ugly.

/thread