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View Full Version : Conspiracy Theory 346: LBJ + Three #1 picks



JasonJohnHorn
09-04-2014, 09:24 AM
Considering the Cavs cap-space issues in 2010, and their draft position, it was clear that the Cavs weren't going to be able to add the pieces they needed to win. The NBA wanted their best and most marketable player in the finals, and the Cavs wanted to keep LBJ as much as he wanted to stay, but LBJ and Cleveland wanted championships.

The compromise?

The Cavs loan out LBJ for four years to the Miami Heat so the league could promote and market a super-team, while the Cavs get rewarded with three #1 picks. LeBron returns, and the Cavs have three All-Star calibre players on rookie contracts ready to form a new dynasty and keep LBJ in a title hunt for the rest of his career.

Of course, the Cavs have a $#!TTY GM, so they didn't get their All-Stars, but they got enough, and the T-Wolves got Wiggins (and who knows, maybe a #1 pick next year).

Part of the deal? The Clippers give their first-rounder to Cleveland, NBA ensures CP3 goes to LAC (blocks the Lakers trade), putting them in a position to win, and giving the Cavs more assets to add to LBJ. for his return.


Far fetched, yes, but come on.... 3 #1 picks in four years? How the fawk does that happen?

Raps18-19 Champ
09-04-2014, 09:36 AM
Considering the Cavs cap-space issues in 2010, and their draft position, it was clear that the Cavs weren't going to be able to add the pieces they needed to win. The NBA wanted their best and most marketable player in the finals, and the Cavs wanted to keep LBJ as much as he wanted to stay, but LBJ and Cleveland wanted championships.

The compromise?

The Cavs loan out LBJ for four years to the Miami Heat so the league could promote and market a super-team, while the Cavs get rewarded with three #1 picks. LeBron returns, and the Cavs have three All-Star calibre players on rookie contracts ready to form a new dynasty and keep LBJ in a title hunt for the rest of his career.

Of course, the Cavs have a $#!TTY GM, so they didn't get their All-Stars, but they got enough, and the T-Wolves got Wiggins (and who knows, maybe a #1 pick next year).

Part of the deal? The Clippers give their first-rounder to Cleveland, NBA ensures CP3 goes to LAC (blocks the Lakers trade), putting them in a position to win, and giving the Cavs more assets to add to LBJ. for his return.


Far fetched, yes, but come on.... 3 #1 picks in four years? How the fawk does that happen?

Lucky bounce. They had chances to win each time. And it's pretty dumb to believe PWC would actually allow a rigging to take place since the NBA has no way to bribe a firm who makes WAAAAY more than them.

WSU Tony
09-04-2014, 09:39 AM
Lucky bounce. They had chances to win each time. And it's pretty dumb to believe PWC would actually allow a rigging to take place since the NBA has no way to bribe a firm who makes WAAAAY more than them.

Is there a higher probability this is a conspiracy theory or that the cavs would hit the 1/10,000 chance of 3 #1 picks?

1/10,000 is pretty far fetched.....

Dade County
09-04-2014, 09:56 AM
No...

The league manipulated the draft behind the scenes to entice Lbj to go back to cleveland. The league controlled the HEAT organization making sure the 3 kings didn't completely break all records and go ham on the league.

They new if they made Lbj, Wade & Bosh sacrifice time and time again, they could split them up. Lbj was to easy to manipulate and him going back home was the icing on the cake.

Miami organization got there championships, Cav's get their home town star back & the league saves face, when people look back at this 15yrs from now.

But I will never forget what Lbj did in the 2011 Final's... I will never forget what happened this last Finals.

I just hope that everything is back to normal and I don't have to see ring games and playoff games when it comes to my HEAT ever again.

valade16
09-04-2014, 10:05 AM
If the league did do that they took a huge gamble on LeBron not winning all 4 titles in Miami and wanting to stay there. He came pretty darn close.

ottograham14
09-04-2014, 10:22 AM
You realize that the Cavs didn't even win the 2011 Draft Lottery but instead the Clippers did. Now the Clippers did have a 1.7% chance to win that but the Cavs took on Baron Davis' awful contract from them to get their non-protected first round pick in 2011 which led them to Kyrie Irving. So blame that First overall pick on the Clippers doing anything to move Baron Davis' contract and Chris Grant/Dan Gilbert willing to take on that money.

Also in 2013 they were the 3rd worse team in the league so they only jumped 2 other teams and had a great shot to begin with to win the lottery. Wouldn't really call winning that lottery very lucky though since the draft was awful.

If it was a conspiracy then they would have won in 2012 and got Anthony Davis.

For 3 years the Cavs took on bad contracts to get protected and non-protected draft picks. Dan Gilbert has been willing to spend each year while Lebron was gone to take on future assets which other TANKING teams aren't willing to do where they cut salary and hope they are bad enough to win the lottery.

Haters gonna hate though.

FraziersKnicks
09-04-2014, 10:33 AM
:yawn:

jaydubb
09-04-2014, 10:45 AM
There's been conspiracy theories about the nba for years and honestly, they might actually be true..

I know I keep saying this, but the NBA is a business. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some behind the scenes deals going on. They had a 2.8% chance in 2011(i know it was the clippers pick, but who cares it was still owned by Cleveland before the draft) 15.6% chance in 2013 and a 1.7% chance in 2014.. That's too much of a coincidence imo.

One thing for sure tho, if this really is happening we will know eventually. Someone will talk eventually at least unanimously. Someone always talks..

I could see it happening but I also could see it just being a theory.

2-ONE-5
09-04-2014, 11:08 AM
No...

The league manipulated the draft behind the scenes to entice Lbj to go back to cleveland. The league controlled the HEAT organization making sure the 3 kings didn't completely break all records and go ham on the league.

They new if they made Lbj, Wade & Bosh sacrifice time and time again, they could split them up. Lbj was to easy to manipulate and him going back home was the icing on the cake.

Miami organization got there championships, Cav's get their home town star back & the league saves face, when people look back at this 15yrs from now.

But I will never forget what Lbj did in the 2011 Final's... I will never forget what happened this last Finals.

I just hope that everything is back to normal and I don't have to see ring games and playoff games when it comes to my HEAT ever again.

will you serioulsy **** up already with your bs theory?

ottograham14
09-04-2014, 11:10 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/video/2014-nba-draft-lottery-behind-010850596.html

The entire NBA even the other teams representatives in the draft lottery room are in on it.

ThuglifeJ
09-04-2014, 11:34 AM
It crossed my mind plenty. How on earth does Cleveland get back to back #1 picks...

they don't..its near impossible.

Then the Kevin love, not mentioning Wiggins and Bennett...

Definitely feel like lebron was coming back the whole time. As someone who works in marketing it just seems like one giant scam to make max profit off lebron. Too storyline esque with lack of surprise or emotion from the players like kyrie, lebron

Raps18-19 Champ
09-04-2014, 11:38 AM
Is there a higher probability this is a conspiracy theory or that the cavs would hit the 1/10,000 chance of 3 #1 picks?

1/10,000 is pretty far fetched.....

Don't compound the %'s.

ThuglifeJ
09-04-2014, 11:46 AM
Is there a higher probability this is a conspiracy theory or that the cavs would hit the 1/10,000 chance of 3 #1 picks?

1/10,000 is pretty far fetched.....

Don't compound the %'s.

Its still insanely unlikely.

Arch Stanton
09-04-2014, 11:56 AM
Considering the Cavs cap-space issues in 2010, and their draft position, it was clear that the Cavs weren't going to be able to add the pieces they needed to win. The NBA wanted their best and most marketable player in the finals, and the Cavs wanted to keep LBJ as much as he wanted to stay, but LBJ and Cleveland wanted championships.

The compromise?

The Cavs loan out LBJ for four years to the Miami Heat so the league could promote and market a super-team, while the Cavs get rewarded with three #1 picks. LeBron returns, and the Cavs have three All-Star calibre players on rookie contracts ready to form a new dynasty and keep LBJ in a title hunt for the rest of his career.

Of course, the Cavs have a $#!TTY GM, so they didn't get their All-Stars, but they got enough, and the T-Wolves got Wiggins (and who knows, maybe a #1 pick next year).

Part of the deal? The Clippers give their first-rounder to Cleveland, NBA ensures CP3 goes to LAC (blocks the Lakers trade), putting them in a position to win, and giving the Cavs more assets to add to LBJ. for his return.


Far fetched, yes, but come on.... 3 #1 picks in four years? How the fawk does that happen?

Yeah the NBA is rigging the lottery for Cleveland, not LA, not NY... Give me a break?!?!?!?

True Sports Fan
09-04-2014, 11:58 AM
Aren't people watching the lotto? Almost positive it would get out if they were really rigging the lotto. (And yes I know I have previously said the Lotto was rigged)

FlashBolt
09-04-2014, 12:00 PM
I hate when people say this because Cavs didn't even win the #1 pick for Kyrie.. It was the Clippers... And if you knew how the lottery system worked, there is absolutely no way to manipulate the results to your liking while 30 other representatives are there the entire time.. Statistically, it would be less than 1%. So realistically, they've only one won one in which they shouldn't have but guess what, it happens. Heck, if it was rigged, who better to have than to rig it with Anthony Davis?

Raps18-19 Champ
09-04-2014, 12:13 PM
Its still insanely unlikely.

Unlikely, but they had the odds to do it. If the actual process wasn't viewable by team representatives and by an accounting firm WAAAY larger, richer and stronger than the NBA, I can maybe get into the idea it's rigged.

WITZ
09-04-2014, 12:22 PM
Conspiracy theorist are the ****ing worst :laugh2:

2-ONE-5
09-04-2014, 12:23 PM
as long as there is a 1 and not 0 in in the odds its not rigged. whenever there is even the slightest chance of something happeing it can still happen regardless of how unlikely

jericho
09-04-2014, 12:40 PM
Come on guys you know the league is rigged, there has been multiple examples of it. From the Patrick Ewing one (im a knicks fan so i aint complaining about that one to much) to Kings/Lakers series. Cleveland winning the draft in 03 to get the hometown hero. The 06 finals we all know that it was rigged to make Wade look like this incredible superstar. The Derrick Rose draft with chicago winning that one. The Anthony Davis draft with the Pelicans getting a new owner before the draft. And most recently Cleveland yet again getting 3 # 1 picks in the past 4 drafts.

Another thing guys you need to stop being so naive. Why does the league has to rig the draft for big market cities specially for New York??? Since no matter what they do with that team the fans in New York are going to still support it, they have to rig it for other teams that way they can maximize the league profit by making less attractive teams more attractive to their fan bases. Its all a big marketing plan to promote the league.

I'm also a lil bit surprised seeing some Cleveland fans showing up on psd, i haven't seen them in 4 years

lamzoka
09-04-2014, 12:56 PM
Come on guys you know the league is rigged, there has been multiple examples of it. From the Patrick Ewing one (im a knicks fan so i aint complaining about that one to much) to Kings/Lakers series. Cleveland winning the draft in 03 to get the hometown hero. The 06 finals we all know that it was rigged to make Wade look like this incredible superstar. The Derrick Rose draft with chicago winning that one. The Anthony Davis draft with the Pelicans getting a new owner before the draft. And most recently Cleveland yet again getting 3 # 1 picks in the past 4 drafts.

Another thing guys you need to stop being so naive. Why does the league has to rig the draft for big market cities specially for New York??? Since no matter what they do with that team the fans in New York are going to still support it, they have to rig it for other teams that way they can maximize the league profit by making less attractive teams more attractive to their fan bases. Its all a big marketing plan to promote the league.

I'm also a lil bit surprised seeing some Cleveland fans showing up on psd, i haven't seen them in 4 years

Former Heat Fans :hide:

Dade County
09-04-2014, 01:04 PM
If the league did do that they took a huge gamble on LeBron not winning all 4 titles in Miami and wanting to stay there. He came pretty darn close.

Thats what the league stopped. Miami should have won 4 straight titles and demolished records.


will you serioulsy **** up already with your bs theory?

Not a theory.

Deal with it.


Yeah the NBA is rigging the lottery for Cleveland, not LA, not NY... Give me a break?!?!?!?

If they didn't plan it the way they did, Lbj would have had no reason to leave. That means no reason to ever follow the scripted past 4 years. Him playing the way he did in the Dallas series, was just a right of passage test.

2-ONE-5
09-04-2014, 01:18 PM
Thats what the league stopped. Miami should have won 4 straight titles and demolished records.



Not a theory.

Deal with it.



If they didn't plan it the way they did, Lbj would have had no reason to leave. That means no reason to ever follow the scripted past 4 years. Him playing the way he did in the Dallas series, was just a right of passage test.

prove it. i would wait but forever will take to long

PurpleLynch
09-04-2014, 01:29 PM
The thing that make me always smile is that apparently cospirationalists think the "League"(it's like saying "The Illuminati") rigged the draft because Cleveland is a known huge market that brings in a lot of money :laugh:...
Do you understand that if the "League" decided to do something like that they'd surely choose a team like Lakers or Knicks to pull something like that?
Do you really think that Gilbert has more power than any other owner in the Nba?

hugepatsfan
09-04-2014, 01:30 PM
You realize that the Cavs didn't even win the 2011 Draft Lottery but instead the Clippers did. Now the Clippers did have a 1.7% chance to win that but the Cavs took on Baron Davis' awful contract from them to get their non-protected first round pick in 2011 which led them to Kyrie Irving. So blame that First overall pick on the Clippers doing anything to move Baron Davis' contract and Chris Grant/Dan Gilbert willing to take on that money.

Not that I believe the conspiracy theories but this is an awful counterargument to them. CLE had the LAC pick unprotected so if the league was rigging things for the Cavs what difference at all does it make which pick won the lottery.

jericho
09-04-2014, 01:30 PM
prove it. i would wait but forever will take to long

Do you really think that there will be prove out there to show that it is rigged? All evidence that would point to this would be eliminated immediately. You just have to use your common sense and see the things that have happen before you. There has been countless occasions were the league has rigged the draft and many many games.

PurpleLynch
09-04-2014, 01:30 PM
Thats what the league stopped. Miami should have won 4 straight titles and demolished records.



Not a theory.

Deal with it.



If they didn't plan it the way they did, Lbj would have had no reason to leave. That means no reason to ever follow the scripted past 4 years. Him playing the way he did in the Dallas series, was just a right of passage test.

Yeah,but Mavs&Spurs happened. That's why they didn't win.

hugepatsfan
09-04-2014, 01:33 PM
I hate when people say this because Cavs didn't even win the #1 pick for Kyrie.. It was the Clippers... And if you knew how the lottery system worked, there is absolutely no way to manipulate the results to your liking while 30 other representatives are there the entire time.. Statistically, it would be less than 1%. So realistically, they've only one won one in which they shouldn't have but guess what, it happens. Heck, if it was rigged, who better to have than to rig it with Anthony Davis?

OMG another person talking about this. Going into the draft we knew the Cavs had that LAC pick. The league KNEW that so if they were rigging it for CLE then it had no effect. It would actually make more sense to rig that pick so that the Cavs had two high picks rather than just make their own pick #1 and then have LAC's on the backend of the lottery. Pointing out that it wasn't CLE's own pick does absolutely nothing to disprove the conspiracy theories. Not that they need disproving because they're ridiculous. But still...

Chronz
09-04-2014, 01:35 PM
Its impossible to rig the lottery and even if by some miracle they were rigging it, why would the NBA allow team reps to take the evidence (weighted lotto balls), are ALL the teams in on it? I highly doubt that would be true and I dont think anyone would be stupid enough to make it so obvious. Easy connections mean nothing, why risk so much when the pay off is a weak headliner like Anthony Bennet?

jericho
09-04-2014, 01:36 PM
The thing that make me always smile is that apparently cospirationalists think the "League"(it's like saying "The Illuminati") rigged the draft because Cleveland is a known huge market that brings in a lot of money :laugh:...
Do you understand that if the "League" decided to do something like that they'd surely choose a team like Lakers or Knicks to pull something like that?
Do you really think that Gilbert has more power than any other owner in the Nba?

There is no need for them to rig it to favor those 2 teams. They have the biggest fan bases on the league, so no matter what happens to those 2 teams they could suck for 10 yrs in a row (knicks) the nba would still make big money out of them. What they are trying to do is increase lower markets teams fan bases in order to make more money out of them

hugepatsfan
09-04-2014, 01:37 PM
The thing that make me always smile is that apparently cospirationalists think the "League"(it's like saying "The Illuminati") rigged the draft because Cleveland is a known huge market that brings in a lot of money :laugh:...
Do you understand that if the "League" decided to do something like that they'd surely choose a team like Lakers or Knicks to pull something like that?
Do you really think that Gilbert has more power than any other owner in the Nba?

Once again, poor reasoning to disprove the theories. For any other player, yes, LA or NY would have made more sense. But because Lebron is from CLE (or near there) it's a unique case. Lebron thriving in CLE is a bigger marketing ploy for the NBA than Lebron thriving anywhere else. In this specific case, yes, CLE is the ideal market.

Can I help out all the people trying to disprove the conspiracy theories? Because everyone in this thread doing it is bringing up dumb reasons. All that needs to be said to disprove it is "really?" That's it. Common sense says that there's no way the NBA is going to undergo a 4 year plan with many people involved and risk that not even a single person squeals. Good God, the NBA isn't the ****ing mafia. Some of you need to get real.

Chronz
09-04-2014, 01:40 PM
Do you really think that there will be prove out there to show that it is rigged? All evidence that would point to this would be eliminated immediately. You just have to use your common sense and see the things that have happen before you. There has been countless occasions were the league has rigged the draft and many many games.

Nothing you've just said was true.

jericho
09-04-2014, 01:45 PM
Nothing you've just said was true.

Tim Donaghy disagrees with you.

Correct me in my first post in this forum

Chronz
09-04-2014, 01:46 PM
There is no need for them to rig it to favor those 2 teams. They have the biggest fan bases on the league, so no matter what happens to those 2 teams they could suck for 10 yrs in a row (knicks) the nba would still make big money out of them. What they are trying to do is increase lower markets teams fan bases in order to make more money out of them

The league is at its best with the big markets succeeding. You can cater any storyline to either side, thats the beauty of conspiracy theories, especially when it comes from people from the outside looking in (tho not very clearly, it appears)

PurpleLynch
09-04-2014, 01:47 PM
Once again, poor reasoning to disprove the theories. For any other player, yes, LA or NY would have made more sense. But because Lebron is from CLE (or near there) it's a unique case. Lebron thriving in CLE is a bigger marketing ploy for the NBA than Lebron thriving anywhere else. In this specific case, yes, CLE is the ideal market.

Can I help out all the people trying to disprove the conspiracy theories? Because everyone in this thread doing it is bringing up dumb reasons. All that needs to be said to disprove it is "really?" That's it. Common sense says that there's no way the NBA is going to undergo a 4 year plan with many people involved and risk that not even a single person squeals. Good God, the NBA isn't the ****ing mafia. Some of you need to get real.

I agree with you,but I don't think my idea is "dumb". I just said that:
-There are more owners and they don't surely are less powerful than Gilbert.
-The term "League" is a generalization of something that doesn't exist.Who are "The League"? The owners?Stern?Silver?
-Yes Lebron is from Cleveland etc,but I think that if he paired up with Carmelo or Kobe the market would be stronger than Cleveland's one.
-I agree that against cospirations the answer should be just "really?" and using common sense. But on the internet and on PSD in this specific case,things are different. Do you think you could just debunk this kind of people saying that? That's what I call "poor reasoning".

jericho
09-04-2014, 01:47 PM
The league is at its best with the big markets succeeding. You can cater any storyline to either side, thats the beauty of conspiracy theories, especially when it comes from people from the outside looking in (tho not very clearly, it appears)

So you are saying you can see things clearly? ok lol

hugepatsfan
09-04-2014, 01:53 PM
I agree with you,but I don't think my idea is "dumb". I just said that:
-There are more owners and they don't surely are less powerful than Gilbert.
-The term "League" is a generalization of something that doesn't exist.Who are "The League"? The owners?Stern?Silver?
-Yes Lebron is from Cleveland etc,but I think that if he paired up with Carmelo or Kobe the market would be stronger than Cleveland's one.
-I agree that against cospirations the answer should be just "really?" and using common sense. But on the internet and on PSD in this specific case,things are different. Do you think you could just debunk this kind of people saying that? That's what I call "poor reasoning".

It's not about which market is strongest with Lebron. It's about which market has more incremental improvement with Lebron compared to if they don't. If you're familiar with economics, it's the law of diminishing returns. LA is a huge market that will make a lot of money with or without Lebron. More with him for sure but still a lot without him. There's no way LA experiences more improvement as a market because of Lebron than CLE does. Lebron going to CLE takes that market from a near nothing to a good one and also makes Lebron more marketable to the average fan because it makes him look like the "good guy" again.

jericho
09-04-2014, 01:57 PM
It's not about which market is strongest with Lebron. It's about which market has more incremental improvement with Lebron compared to if they don't. If you're familiar with economics, it's the law of diminishing returns. LA is a huge market that will make a lot of money with or without Lebron. More with him for sure but still a lot without him. There's no way LA experiences more improvement as a market because of Lebron than CLE does. Lebron going to CLE takes that market from a near nothing to a good one and also makes Lebron more marketable to the average fan because it makes him look like the "good guy" again.

I know you aint pro conspiracy im just quoting this more towards chronz ..... Anyways this is what im talking about why try to make a profitable market be more profitable by lets 30 to 40 % when you can make a market increase their profit by 100%

Chronz
09-04-2014, 01:59 PM
Tim Donaghy disagrees with you.
1 rogue ref = the NBA ? LMFAO


Correct me in my first post in this forum

ok


Come on guys you know the league is rigged, there has been multiple examples of it. From the Patrick Ewing one (im a knicks fan so i aint complaining about that one to much)
Maybe, maybe not.


to Kings/Lakers series.
Nope.


Cleveland winning the draft in 03 to get the hometown hero. The 06 finals we all know that it was rigged to make Wade look like this incredible superstar. The Derrick Rose draft with chicago winning that one. The Anthony Davis draft with the Pelicans getting a new owner before the draft. And most recently Cleveland yet again getting 3 # 1 picks in the past 4 drafts.

Another thing guys you need to stop being so naive. Why does the league has to rig the draft for big market cities specially for New York??? Since no matter what they do with that team the fans in New York are going to still support it, they have to rig it for other teams that way they can maximize the league profit by making less attractive teams more attractive to their fan bases. Its all a big marketing plan to promote the league.

I'm also a lil bit surprised seeing some Cleveland fans showing up on psd, i haven't seen them in 4 yearsOK Im seeing the pattern here.
Opinionated drivel that has zero supporting evidence is impossible to correct. You are entitled to think what you want, just dont call others naive when you provide nothing but conjecture because, again, the league is at its healthiest with the big markets thriving. No matter how successful OKC has been the last few years, it is in no way comparable to the revenue that an elite Lakers/Knicks/Bulls/Sixers squad brings in, just on their incoming TV deals alone, they are helping the NBA in more ways than the risky/stupid endeavor you propose.

Chronz
09-04-2014, 02:02 PM
So you are saying you can see things clearly? ok lol
Nah. Just clearer, given some of the responses on here.

jericho
09-04-2014, 02:10 PM
1 rogue ref = the NBA ? LMFAO


ok


Maybe, maybe not.


Nope.

OK Im seeing the pattern here.
Opinionated drivel that has zero supporting evidence is impossible to correct. You are entitled to think what you want, just dont call others naive when you provide nothing but conjecture because, again, the league is at its healthiest with the big markets thriving. No matter how successful OKC has been the last few years, it is in no way comparable to the revenue that an elite Lakers/Knicks/Bulls/Sixers squad brings in, just on their incoming TV deals alone, they are helping the NBA in more ways than the risky/stupid endeavor you propose.

Naw he mite have been rogue be the league needed somebody to take the fall and people were getting close to what was going on. It was either the nba or Tim. Kings/Lakers everybody knows that series was rigged as hell even the commentators. If you watched that series you could hear the commentators talking on it. Maybe, maybe not isnt much of an answer now you are just talking just to talk. The last part i know i was wrong calling people naive ill give you that and ill respect your opinion but this aint "Opinionated drivel that has zero supporting evidence is impossible to correct" this are some major points that people have brought up thru out this past few years.

jericho
09-04-2014, 02:13 PM
So you are saying you can see things clearly? ok lol
Nah. Just clearer, given some of the responses on here.

Whatever floats your boat

ABOMB_56
09-04-2014, 02:22 PM
I don't know which of the big 4 companies, E&Y or PWC, oversees the NBA lottery operations but their presence is reason enough for me to believe that there is no conspiracy.
NBA's Global Revenue:5+ Billion
PWC's Global Revenue:32+ Billion
E&Y's Global Revenue: 25+ Billion.

Now, if someone could give me a legitimate reason as to how the NBA has any type of leverage over accounting companies that make 500-600% more per year, then maybe I'd listen. But until that happens, the conspiracy theories are just that, theories that have no substantiated evidence behind them.

valade16
09-04-2014, 02:22 PM
1 rogue ref = the NBA ? LMFAO

But he said the NBA was involved and who was directing it. Do you not believe him?

Didn't we learn our lesson with Jose Canseco?

valade16
09-04-2014, 02:23 PM
I don't know which of the big 4 companies, E&Y or PWC, oversees the NBA lottery operations but their presence is reason enough for me to believe that there is no conspiracy.
NBA's Global Revenue:5+ Billion
PWC's Global Revenue:32+ Billion
E&Y's Global Revenue: 25+ Billion.

Now, if someone could give me a legitimate reason as to how the NBA has any type of leverage over accounting companies that make 500-600% more per year, then maybe I'd listen. But until that happens, the conspiracy theories are just that, theories that have no substantiated evidence behind them.

The only leverage needed is money. Yes they make $32 billion a year, but show me a company that makes $32 billion a year that would say no to some extra money to bend the rules a little and I'll show you a live martian who can play the trumpet...

ABOMB_56
09-04-2014, 02:25 PM
The only leverage needed is money. Yes they make $32 billion a year, but show me a company that makes $32 billion a year that would say no to some extra money to bend the rules a little and I'll show you a live martian who can play the trumpet...

So a company that makes 6x more than the NBA is willing to potentially throw away their reputation as one of the best accounting firms in the world and being investigated by the SEC (or whatever government agency would get involved) for more money? I call BS

Also, bending the rules a little? Allowing rigging is more than just a little, and would essentially shut down PWC because their company is the one that investigates these types of frauds because, IIRC, they are an auditing firm

valade16
09-04-2014, 02:31 PM
So a company that makes 6x more than the NBA is willing to potentially throw away their reputation as one of the best accounting firms in the world and being investigated by the SEC (or whatever government agency would get involved) for more money? I call BS

Also, bending the rules a little? Allowing rigging is more than just a little, and would essentially shut down PWC because their company is the one that investigates these types of frauds because, IIRC, they are an auditing firm

So you're answer is you don't think a company that makes an obscene amount of money would bend the rules to get some more? About that flying, trumpet playing martian...

http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2011/2011-82.htm

http://news.oneindia.in/2011/04/06/sec-satyam-pwc-fine-aid0143.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12981738

http://www.big4.com/pricewaterhousecoopers/pcaob-fines-pricewaterhousecoopers-1-5-million-for-audit-violations-re-satyam-india-71/

http://business.financialpost.com/2014/08/18/auditors-under-increased-scrutiny-as-pwc-fined-us25m-for-improperly-altered-report/

I guess you "call BS" because you literally don't know anything about their past business practices.

Chronz
09-04-2014, 02:33 PM
But he said the NBA was involved and who was directing it. Do you not believe him?

Didn't we learn our lesson with Jose Canseco?

His own cohorts didn't believe him, thats why they learned to only wage in games he personally officiated. Its why many of his claims about his former co-workers were proven inaccurate by all involved. I live under a rock when it comes to baseball tho, so no I didn't learn anything, nor do I think its in any way comparable

Dade County
09-04-2014, 02:40 PM
prove it. i would wait but forever will take to long




Do you really think that there will be prove out there to show that it is rigged? All evidence that would point to this would be eliminated immediately. You just have to use your common sense and see the things that have happen before you. There has been countless occasions were the league has rigged the draft and many many games.


2-ONE-5... smh

If I was in position to have that kind of info on hand... To be able to walk into any news outlet and say here; a couple of things would get in my way. The news company it's self, maybe my life would be on the line becasue I would of had to be near the situation ; or I might be one of the lucky few that would have been bought off already :)

The league is clearly rigged man, just watch the damn games (story lines). They're has also been an investigation by Cuban that could have brought all of this to light.



Yeah,but Mavs&Spurs happened. That's why they didn't win.

Lol... Lbj happened.

Go check his stats and re-watch the games, he clearly forgot how to play basketball. If you can honestly say, that Lbj was playing to his best potential (when we seen him play against tougher defenses before that series and all through his career), for all 4qtrs each game.

But hey, you can blame it on the moment... lmao

Chronz
09-04-2014, 02:44 PM
Naw he mite have been rogue be the league needed somebody to take the fall and people were getting close to what was going on.
wat? Who are these people and how would finding LEGITIMATE evidence against the NBA be something that the league would want? Remember, TD was looking to stick it to the NBA, IIRC he never actually admitted to rigging anything, he would have gotten a much harsher penalty had he done so. So he tried to come up with some ludicrous story based on a plethora of testimony that was proven inaccurate. Thats not taking the fall, thats a rogue ref looking out for his own skin. Tim is so alone that his own family member (a FORMER REF) wouldn't even come to his defense. Now if a retired ref doesn't want to help his own relative, then either the NBA is the biggest crime syndicate in the states, or he sees what the rest of us have, fairy tales from a desperate/disgrace man.



Kings/Lakers everybody knows that series was rigged as hell even the commentators. If you watched that series you could hear the commentators talking on it.
Nah, just conspiracy clowns who expect perfection. It was poorly officiated, the Lakers should have won that series alot sooner had they called the game correctly IMO. But poor reffing doesn't equate to rigging.



Maybe, maybe not isnt much of an answer now you are just talking just to talk.
LOL. Wat? We are exchanging opinions, thats my way of saying you have a decent point, because its in the realm of possibility given how odd the whole event was. Even I have a hard time looking at it 50.50. But again, this is an OPINION, wake me up when we have something alil more concrete.


The last part i know i was wrong calling people naive ill give you that and ill respect your opinion but this aint "Opinionated drivel that has zero supporting evidence is impossible to correct" this are some major points that people have brought up thru out this past few years.
So what? People have been believing in alot of stupid **** since man was first created. I dont put stock into unsubstantiated claims, only facts.

Raps18-19 Champ
09-04-2014, 02:48 PM
The only leverage needed is money. Yes they make $32 billion a year, but show me a company that makes $32 billion a year that would say no to some extra money to bend the rules a little and I'll show you a live martian who can play the trumpet...

They'd probably face some pretty bad publicity if they were involved in something like that.

jericho
09-04-2014, 03:02 PM
Naw he mite have been rogue be the league needed somebody to take the fall and people were getting close to what was going on.
wat? Who are these people and how would finding LEGITIMATE evidence against the NBA be something that the league would want? Remember, TD was looking to stick it to the NBA, IIRC he never actually admitted to rigging anything, he would have gotten a much harsher penalty had he done so. So he tried to come up with some ludicrous story based on a plethora of testimony that was proven inaccurate. Thats not taking the fall, thats a rogue ref looking out for his own skin. Tim is so alone that his own family member (a FORMER REF) wouldn't even come to his defense. Now if a retired ref doesn't want to help his own relative, then either the NBA is the biggest crime syndicate in the states, or he sees what the rest of us have, fairy tales from a desperate/disgrace man.



Kings/Lakers everybody knows that series was rigged as hell even the commentators. If you watched that series you could hear the commentators talking on it.
Nah, just conspiracy clowns who expect perfection. It was poorly officiated, the Lakers should have won that series alot sooner had they called the game correctly IMO. But poor reffing doesn't equate to rigging.



Maybe, maybe not isnt much of an answer now you are just talking just to talk.
LOL. Wat? We are exchanging opinions, thats my way of saying you have a decent point, because its in the realm of possibility given how odd the whole event was. Even I have a hard time looking at it 50.50. But again, this is an OPINION, wake me up when we have something alil more concrete.


The last part i know i was wrong calling people naive ill give you that and ill respect your opinion but this aint "Opinionated drivel that has zero supporting evidence is impossible to correct" this are some major points that people have brought up thru out this past few years.
So what? People have been believing in alot of stupid **** since man was first created. I dont put stock into unsubstantiated claims, only facts.

Hahahaha wow you are the first one that I have seen that says Lakers should have won that series sooner. Kings are the nba champs in 2002 they got robbed it was not poorly officiated. Multiple calls happen rite in front of the refs that weren't called.

As sad as this may sound money speaks louder than family. I'm not saying I would do something like it but nba could have easily bought that guy and tell him not to say a thing and we will give you X amount of money.

Again the Ewing thing you are just talking just to talk and seem kinda confused about it.

Facts thru out history have been changed. Not everything that has been written down on pen and paper actually happen. It can easily be altered into what somebody wants to make us believe.

Like example if you want to believe that the lakers beat the kings fair in 02 you can believe that. But in reality it was more of an 8 vs 5 series type of thing.

jericho
09-04-2014, 03:04 PM
The only leverage needed is money. Yes they make $32 billion a year, but show me a company that makes $32 billion a year that would say no to some extra money to bend the rules a little and I'll show you a live martian who can play the trumpet...

They'd probably face some pretty bad publicity if they were involved in something like that.

Read his post rite after that one

Arch Stanton
09-04-2014, 03:40 PM
Thats what the league stopped. Miami should have won 4 straight titles and demolished records.



Not a theory.

Deal with it.



If they didn't plan it the way they did, Lbj would have had no reason to leave. That means no reason to ever follow the scripted past 4 years. Him playing the way he did in the Dallas series, was just a right of passage test.

I'm sorry do you have actually proof that all of this is scripted? Or are you just playing telephone?

JasonJohnHorn
09-04-2014, 03:53 PM
You realize that the Cavs didn't even win the 2011 Draft Lottery but instead the Clippers did. Now the Clippers did have a 1.7% chance to win that but the Cavs took on Baron Davis' awful contract from them to get their non-protected first round pick in 2011 which led them to Kyrie Irving. So blame that First overall pick on the Clippers doing anything to move Baron Davis' contract and Chris Grant/Dan Gilbert willing to take on that money. .

You realize I mentioned that right?

jericho
09-04-2014, 03:56 PM
Thats what the league stopped. Miami should have won 4 straight titles and demolished records.



Not a theory.

Deal with it.



If they didn't plan it the way they did, Lbj would have had no reason to leave. That means no reason to ever follow the scripted past 4 years. Him playing the way he did in the Dallas series, was just a right of passage test.

I'm sorry do you have actually proof that all of this is scripted? Or are you just playing telephone?

Do you have prove it ain't scripted? Or are you playing guess who?

Arch Stanton
09-04-2014, 04:05 PM
Do you have prove it ain't scripted? Or are you playing guess who?

Yeah where exactly has this been reported? Oh that's right it hasn't. That's my proof. Good try though. Don't let your imagination run too wild with this or the aliens will anal probe you in your sleep.

jericho
09-04-2014, 04:14 PM
Do you have prove it ain't scripted? Or are you playing guess who?

Yeah where exactly has this been reported? Oh that's right it hasn't. That's my proof. Good try though. Don't let your imagination run too wild with this or the aliens will anal probe you in your sleep.

You are to funny ;)

JasonJohnHorn
09-04-2014, 06:31 PM
The thing that make me always smile is that apparently cospirationalists think the "League"(it's like saying "The Illuminati") rigged the draft because Cleveland is a known huge market that brings in a lot of money :laugh:...
Do you understand that if the "League" decided to do something like that they'd surely choose a team like Lakers or Knicks to pull something like that?
Do you really think that Gilbert has more power than any other owner in the Nba?

Who said it was because Cleveland was a big market? lol

nastynice
09-04-2014, 06:39 PM
If it was a conspiracy then they would have won in 2012 and got Anthony Davis.

Thats actually a great point. Anthony Davis easily the most bonafide looking nba superstar player coming out of those drafts. If it were that controlled to a tee, my guess would be they'd try n get davis onto the cavs.

nastynice
09-04-2014, 06:43 PM
Thats what the league stopped. Miami should have won 4 straight titles and demolished records.



Not a theory.

Deal with it.



If they didn't plan it the way they did, Lbj would have had no reason to leave. That means no reason to ever follow the scripted past 4 years. Him playing the way he did in the Dallas series, was just a right of passage test.

lol, c'mon guy, maybe the Heat just not as good as you thought they were.

WITZ
09-04-2014, 06:47 PM
You realize that the Cavs didn't even win the 2011 Draft Lottery but instead the Clippers did. Now the Clippers did have a 1.7% chance to win that but the Cavs took on Baron Davis' awful contract from them to get their non-protected first round pick in 2011 which led them to Kyrie Irving. So blame that First overall pick on the Clippers doing anything to move Baron Davis' contract and Chris Grant/Dan Gilbert willing to take on that money.

Also in 2013 they were the 3rd worse team in the league so they only jumped 2 other teams and had a great shot to begin with to win the lottery. Wouldn't really call winning that lottery very lucky though since the draft was awful.

If it was a conspiracy then they would have won in 2012 and got Anthony Davis.

For 3 years the Cavs took on bad contracts to get protected and non-protected draft picks. Dan Gilbert has been willing to spend each year while Lebron was gone to take on future assets which other TANKING teams aren't willing to do where they cut salary and hope they are bad enough to win the lottery.

Haters gonna hate though.

That reality was oh so close. Had they lost the coin flip with the pelicans they would have jumped up to #1 ,but their luck worked against them in that case.

PurpleLynch
09-04-2014, 07:07 PM
It's not about which market is strongest with Lebron. It's about which market has more incremental improvement with Lebron compared to if they don't. If you're familiar with economics, it's the law of diminishing returns. LA is a huge market that will make a lot of money with or without Lebron. More with him for sure but still a lot without him. There's no way LA experiences more improvement as a market because of Lebron than CLE does. Lebron going to CLE takes that market from a near nothing to a good one and also makes Lebron more marketable to the average fan because it makes him look like the "good guy" again.

Honestly I'm familiar with the concept(I had some economics exams at my university) and I know what is it(but I'm not very good at economics anyway,just know concepts);you are right,I didn't think about it. And I agree with you,it was a perfect marketing move(the "good guy" thing is completely the truth).
But my other points were not dumb anyway :D

Chronz
09-04-2014, 11:32 PM
Hahahaha wow you are the first one that I have seen that says Lakers should have won that series sooner.
Sounds like you werent on the interwebs those days. I've seen the whiners try to make the argument you have, only to see Laker fans put that argument in its place. Ill get the guy who does it best if you care to take a stab at the debate. Im only giving you my opinion because its all you have provided. The minute you start citing facts, Ill do the same.


Kings are the nba champs in 2002 they got robbed it was not poorly officiated. Multiple calls happen rite in front of the refs that weren't called.
Nonsense, Lakers got hosed by the refs early in the series. Multiple calls happened right in front of the refs that weren't called. See I can say the same thing too. :)


As sad as this may sound money speaks louder than family. I'm not saying I would do something like it but nba could have easily bought that guy and tell him not to say a thing and we will give you X amount of money.

You are reaching REALLY hard now, maybe aliens are hiding the money for him too. No paper trail when you got martians.


Again the Ewing thing you are just talking just to talk and seem kinda confused about it.
What gives you that impression. I dont know how I could be any more clear about that.


Facts thru out history have been changed. Not everything that has been written down on pen and paper actually happen. It can easily be altered into what somebody wants to make us believe.
Thats my point, wake me up when you have more than stories.


Like example if you want to believe that the lakers beat the kings fair in 02 you can believe that. But in reality it was more of an 8 vs 5 series type of thing.
In reality, you have provided nothing but conjecture and ZERO facts so the burden of truth is on you, I see no reason to side with what you have uncovered vs the feds/media.

FlashBolt
09-04-2014, 11:35 PM
1) How does NBA helping LeBron and then making him lose vs Spurs/Mavs help them in any way? Why would the NBA let Mavs win and not Kobe vs LeBron - something which would shatter ratings and everyone with their grandmothers would be watching?
2) You can't rig the lottery system. Well, you can but you do realize there are about 30 individuals with a representative from each team to overlook the process, right? So unless you're suggesting all 30 teams are willing to lose the 1st pick, fine by me.
3) As Chronz stated, why would the Cavailers select Anthony Bennett? Why would the NBA make Cavs win the 1st pick of the 2013 draft instead of 2012, where they could have gotten Anthony Davis?
4) So the NBA fixed last season's NBA finals in which:
•Ginobili missed a free throw.
•Leonard missed a free throw.
•Duncan was taken out of the game.
•Mike Miller grabs the rebound after James misses a three.
•James makes a three with 20 seconds left.
•Bosh grabs an important rebound (the most important of his career).
•Allen sinks the three after being chased by two guys and under severe pressure.
•Tony Parker misses a shot.

Do you know the odds involved with this?

Yes, there were some illegal activity going on but why the hell are you watching then? Go watch WWE or something.. I don't get how you can watch an NBA game knowing it's fake and then coming to an NBA forum to answer legitimate questions. Do you really believe what you're saying or are you a private investigator?

Dade County
09-05-2014, 12:45 AM
1) How does NBA helping LeBron and then making him lose vs Spurs/Mavs help them in any way? Why would the NBA let Mavs win and not Kobe vs LeBron - something which would shatter ratings and everyone with their grandmothers would be watching?
2) You can't rig the lottery system. Well, you can but you do realize there are about 30 individuals with a representative from each team to overlook the process, right? So unless you're suggesting all 30 teams are willing to lose the 1st pick, fine by me.
3) As Chronz stated, why would the Cavailers select Anthony Bennett? Why would the NBA make Cavs win the 1st pick of the 2013 draft instead of 2012, where they could have gotten Anthony Davis?
4) So the NBA fixed last season's NBA finals in which:
•Ginobili missed a free throw.
•Leonard missed a free throw.
•Duncan was taken out of the game.
•Mike Miller grabs the rebound after James misses a three.
•James makes a three with 20 seconds left.
•Bosh grabs an important rebound (the most important of his career).
•Allen sinks the three after being chased by two guys and under severe pressure.
•Tony Parker misses a shot.

Do you know the odds involved with this?

Yes, there were some illegal activity going on but why the hell are you watching then? Go watch WWE or something.. I don't get how you can watch an NBA game knowing it's fake and then coming to an NBA forum to answer legitimate questions. Do you really believe what you're saying or are you a private investigator?

OMG


You are not factoring in, how did the game get into that situation in the first place.


When the big 3 got together, the 3 of them were in top 4 of getting to the line. The first 2months of playing together in their first year, they learned pretty quickly, that the refs were not calling fouls like they used too... HEAT fans noticed.

I didn't mind as the season went on, because if you think about it, most NBA fans would have went crazy if the refs actually called the fouls they should have, Miami could have actually dismantled a team with pure foul calls alone, and thats not the look the NBA wants in the public eye.

Fast forward.

The HEAT style of play when engaged or just coasting.


If the HEAT come out aggressive from the start of the game (meaning), Lbj & Wade attacking the rim, in half court sets or fast breaks; nice ball movement penetrate & kick out game & Bosh fully engaged. The opposing team doesn't usually have the personally to combat this for more then a quarter and a half. The media labels this, Miami has flip the switch, but in actuality Miami is just playing to their full offensive potential.

Like in any offense or defense, if someone isn't on the right page the play thats drawn up will have a low success rate (the HEAT defense is very dependent on every man rotating to the free man at a certain speed... One late reaction causes everything to go to hell, but when done right it's a beautiful thing to see).

Since Lbj was the focal point of the offense, if he choses not to be aggressive or turn over prone, or doesn't start the offensive play set into late in the shot clock and doesn't create the triggers as Spo's calls them; any offense would suffer in that situation.

So FlashBolt, just take the time to re-watch some of the HEAT past games, then go back to some of the games you pointed out, and watch Lbj during the course of the game (yes he's going to score some points, but don't let that throw you off); just pay attention to potential scoring runs being shut down by Lbj (and Spo tries to call him out the game, and he says Naw I'm alright), pay attention to his late reaction on defensive switch and then re-watch some games when he is on the money on the defensive assignments.

It may take you 10 games to notice something fishy, or maybe just 2; you never know.

So in short, do to the constant pressure the HEAT could have placed on their opponents offensively & defensively through out the game, Miami left uncheck by the league would have completely re-wrote some of the record books in wins and loses, winning streaks, margin of victory...etc

OK, I know, bash me now lol

FlashBolt
09-05-2014, 01:37 AM
OMG


You are not factoring in, how did the game get into that situation in the first place.


When the big 3 got together, the 3 of them were in top 4 of getting to the line. The first 2months of playing together in their first year, they learned pretty quickly, that the refs were not calling fouls like they used too... HEAT fans noticed.

I didn't mind as the season went on, because if you think about it, most NBA fans would have went crazy if the refs actually called the fouls they should have, Miami could have actually dismantled a team with pure foul calls alone, and thats not the look the NBA wants in the public eye.

Fast forward.

The HEAT style of play when engaged or just coasting.


If the HEAT come out aggressive from the start of the game (meaning), Lbj & Wade attacking the rim, in half court sets or fast breaks; nice ball movement penetrate & kick out game & Bosh fully engaged. The opposing team doesn't usually have the personally to combat this for more then a quarter and a half. The media labels this, Miami has flip the switch, but in actuality Miami is just playing to their full offensive potential.

Like in any offense or defense, if someone isn't on the right page the play thats drawn up will have a low success rate (the HEAT defense is very dependent on every man rotating to the free man at a certain speed... One late reaction causes everything to go to hell, but when done right it's a beautiful thing to see).

Since Lbj was the focal point of the offense, if he choses not to be aggressive or turn over prone, or doesn't start the offensive play set into late in the shot clock and doesn't create the triggers as Spo's calls them; any offense would suffer in that situation.

So FlashBolt, just take the time to re-watch some of the HEAT past games, then go back to some of the games you pointed out, and watch Lbj during the course of the game (yes he's going to score some points, but don't let that throw you off); just pay attention to potential scoring runs being shut down by Lbj (and Spo tries to call him out the game, and he says Naw I'm alright), pay attention to his late reaction on defensive switch and then re-watch some games when he is on the money on the defensive assignments.

It may take you 10 games to notice something fishy, or maybe just 2; you never know.

So in short, do to the constant pressure the HEAT could have placed on their opponents offensively & defensively through out the game, Miami left uncheck by the league would have completely re-wrote some of the record books in wins and loses, winning streaks, margin of victory...etc

OK, I know, bash me now lol

I don't get what you're talking about mainly because there doesn't seem to be a disagreement from my part. What are you complaining about? The reality is, Miami really does flip the switch. There are times where they just seem bored and you know who I blame? Heat fans in the arena. They are God boring. I've watched GSW games and even though I'm not a fan of the team, you notice the excitement. If fans showed up and showed some zealous, maybe the players would hustle every play. Don't get me wrong, they get paid to entertain but they also know when the arena is just darn quiet.

jericho
09-05-2014, 08:00 AM
Sounds like you werent on the interwebs those days. I've seen the whiners try to make the argument you have, only to see Laker fans put that argument in its place. Ill get the guy who does it best if you care to take a stab at the debate. Im only giving you my opinion because its all you have provided. The minute you start citing facts, Ill do the same.


Nonsense, Lakers got hosed by the refs early in the series. Multiple calls happened right in front of the refs that weren't called. See I can say the same thing too. :)


You are reaching REALLY hard now, maybe aliens are hiding the money for him too. No paper trail when you got martians.


What gives you that impression. I dont know how I could be any more clear about that.


Thats my point, wake me up when you have more than stories.


In reality, you have provided nothing but conjecture and ZERO facts so the burden of truth is on you, I see no reason to side with what you have uncovered vs the feds/media.

And for me it sounds like you didnt watch the series. Of course Laker fans are gonna be the ones arguing in favor of this, they are the ones that benefited the most out of it. The diference with what you are claiming is that when you see the game you will see way more favorable calls towards the lakers side than the kings. The evidence for this one is there a simple search on youtube can let you see the games of that series and im talking about the games not the ones with the conspiracies attached to it. You know what lets watch those games if you still feel as strong as you do on it ill forget about it and not bring it back. But lets just do our homework on it before keeping on this debate on the kings/lakers issue.

Now you are the one who is reaching to hard, exagerating bringing up aliens. Its not the first time that somebody has been bought, its not the first time that family stabs family in the back and it aint the first time that people with enough access and influence within a company is able to erase any paper trail.

To the Ewing thing you arent being clear on that one. You are staying in the middle saying maybe it happen maybe it didnt. Its like you dont want to agree with me on that one because you dont want to give me any validity in what im claiming.

Same with the Ewing thing on this one "Thats my point, wake me up when you have more than stories." you didnt bring anything to the table again. Just to prove you how easily things can be altered take a look at WWE a few years back with the hole Benoit thing. Fact is that nobody past our current genaration is gonna know that Benoit worked for that company and that he won multiple tittles. (yeah we all know wrestling is fake)

And finally to the last point. I have provided you valid points. The thing is that you dont want to accept them and i respect that, i aint trying to change your view on it i just like friendly arguments. Ill let you believe what you want to believe and you let me believe what i want to believe. We will still watch the game regardless anyways.

Chronz
09-05-2014, 10:24 AM
You are not factoring in, how did the game get into that situation in the first place.

Yes he did. You completely ignored all the points he raised. Dont start a lengthy post by dismissing everything he said, it only shows how far you're willing to go, to convince yourself of this delusion.


It may take you 10 games to notice something fishy, or maybe just 2; you never know.


I've seen 90% of all Big-3 Era Heat Games. Maybe you just need to start watching more games outside of Miami.

Chronz
09-05-2014, 10:50 AM
And for me it sounds like you didnt watch the series. Of course Laker fans are gonna be the ones arguing in favor of this, they are the ones that benefited the most out of it. The diference with what you are claiming is that when you see the game you will see way more favorable calls towards the lakers side than the kings. The evidence for this one is there a simple search on youtube can let you see the games of that series and im talking about the games not the ones with the conspiracies attached to it. You know what lets watch those games if you still feel as strong as you do on it ill forget about it and not bring it back. But lets just do our homework on it before keeping on this debate on the kings/lakers issue.
Funny because thats exactly how I feel about you, thats what happens when both parties provide unsubstantiated opinions. I've seen the evidence, its why I know you're wrong.


Now you are the one who is reaching to hard, exagerating bringing up aliens. Its not the first time that somebody has been bought, its not the first time that family stabs family in the back and it aint the first time that people with enough access and influence within a company is able to erase any paper trail.
So the NBA silenced this family with a threat that the FBI's witness protection program wouldn't be an option for such an old man. You also expect me to believe that the money involved with exposing this fraud wouldn't be worthwhile for the family. Is the FBI in on it with the NBA too? OK lets take that leap and suggest an old man is getting laundered money, lets ignore how little you know about his lifestyle change during this leap, and lets also pretend the NBA is bigger than the biggest of crime syndicates.

This is STILL just a single aspect of my argument that you have "explained away". You still got the FBI investigation and everyone else who would stand to gain from exposing such a grand conspiracy that you ignored, you even had to drop the "fall guy" aspect just to get to this explanation, if your stance is that flexible, then it speaks to how little weight your argument carries. Like I said, Aliens .... I actually have an easier time believing in Aliens



To the Ewing thing you arent being clear on that one. You are staying in the middle saying maybe it happen maybe it didnt. Its like you dont want to agree with me on that one because you dont want to give me any validity in what im claiming.
LOL, it was the only valid point you made, that in itself is giving you some validity. That Im not outright denying the plausibility of that one is because its the easiest case to come halfway on. Everything else you've said was too much of a reach to get that far.




Same with the Ewing thing on this one "Thats my point, wake me up when you have more than stories." you didnt bring anything to the table again.
Hence me giving it slight credibility. Which wouldn't be the case in everything else you've said, especially given how many facts you've ignored.


And finally to the last point. I have provided you valid points. The thing is that you dont want to accept them and i respect that, i aint trying to change your view on it i just like friendly arguments. Ill let you believe what you want to believe and you let me believe what i want to believe. We will still watch the game regardless anyways.

Incorrect, you have provided unsubstantiated opinions, a valid point would have more than conjecture behind it, you also ignored the facts I've mentioned and also ignored the question I asked you but its ok, I am going to get that SPECIFIC Lakers fan or Ill just copy and paste one of his old arguments that completely destroys ur "valid points". You tell me which argument in the Kings-Lakers series is more convincing. The one that states facts or the one that states opinion.

Raps18-19 Champ
09-05-2014, 11:14 AM
Read his post rite after that one

Yea but the money they receive from the NBA probably doesn't even make up 1% of their total revenue. If this was a big part in their revenue stream, I can understand them sweeping things under the rug. Not for something that doesn't even hit their books too much, which is what they are probably receiving from the NBA.

jmartin80
09-05-2014, 11:24 AM
I 100% believe it is rigged. Said the same thing when the Bulls got their "Home town Star" with a 1.7% chance. Good story line.

The NBA has way more to gain long term by Lebron saving his legacy then they do giving the number one pick to a main powerhouse franchise.

The powerhouse franchises will get FA and will still be successful at some point. Lebron saving his legacy and being the poster child hero of his hometown and the NBA is way more important to them then anything else.

I even said this before this years lottery and was not surprised at all when this happened.

Dade County
09-05-2014, 11:57 AM
Yes he did. You completely ignored all the points he raised..

No he didn't factor in why the game(s) were even it the state they were in... He just brought up moments that happen in the game, and said how is this rigged.



Dont start a lengthy post by dismissing everything he said, it only shows how far you're willing to go, to convince yourself of this delusion.

Couldn't I say the same-thing about you. You probably have it in your mind that, that the league couldn't be rigged; and the only way you will accept if it is rigged, is if CNN or a major news outlet says it is (but thats not going to happen... Too much money to be lost)

Also, if a player comes out and says this **** is rigged, you and many others would just say that it was only one bad apple.



I've seen 90% of all Big-3 Era Heat Games. Maybe you just need to start watching more games outside of Miami.

What does this have to do with anything... Me and you can watch the same thing and see something totally different. You are a fan, you will see what you want to see.

Dade County
09-05-2014, 12:04 PM
double post

Chronz
09-05-2014, 12:16 PM
No he didn't factor in why the game(s) were even it the state they were in... He just brought up moments that happen in the game, and said how is this rigged.

Thats because its completely unfathomable that a plan to rig titles would boil down to those events in the first place. Why put them in such a precarious position in the first place?


Couldn't I say the same-thing about you. You probably have it in your mind that, that the league couldn't be rigged; and the only way you will accept if it is rigged, is if CNN or a major news outlet says it is (but thats not going to happen... Too much money to be lost)
I dont see how you could, the onus is on you to convince others of this conspiracy, not the other way around. I dont buy your excuse, there is too much money to be made by breaking such a story. The only way there isn't, is if the NBA is paying off those corporations. At some point the paper trail comes out. Wake me up when that happens.


Also, if a player comes out and says this **** is rigged, you and many others would just say that it was only one bad apple.
LOL. I would say its his opinion. In this world we need actual proof. Show me a single player with a shred of proof, and Ill be interested. Not what something appears to be, which is subjective in itself, but actual proof.




What does this have to do with anything... Me and you can watch the same thing and see something totally different. You are a fan, you will see what you want to see.
Thats precisely my point. Its troubling that you dont see the connection. THIS is what YOU said;

It may take you 10 games to notice something fishy, or maybe just 2; you never know.

You cant tell someone to watch the games as the foundation to your reasoning and now say its completely subjective. Sounding senile really shows how little you have to stand on

mike_noodles
09-05-2014, 12:42 PM
Worst conspiracy theory ever.

jericho
09-05-2014, 01:16 PM
Funny because thats exactly how I feel about you, thats what happens when both parties provide unsubstantiated opinions. I've seen the evidence, its why I know you're wrong.


So the NBA silenced this family with a threat that the FBI's witness protection program wouldn't be an option for such an old man. You also expect me to believe that the money involved with exposing this fraud wouldn't be worthwhile for the family. Is the FBI in on it with the NBA too? OK lets take that leap and suggest an old man is getting laundered money, lets ignore how little you know about his lifestyle change during this leap, and lets also pretend the NBA is bigger than the biggest of crime syndicates.

This is STILL just a single aspect of my argument that you have "explained away". You still got the FBI investigation and everyone else who would stand to gain from exposing such a grand conspiracy that you ignored, you even had to drop the "fall guy" aspect just to get to this explanation, if your stance is that flexible, then it speaks to how little weight your argument carries. Like I said, Aliens .... I actually have an easier time believing in Aliens



LOL, it was the only valid point you made, that in itself is giving you some validity. That Im not outright denying the plausibility of that one is because its the easiest case to come halfway on. Everything else you've said was too much of a reach to get that far.




Hence me giving it slight credibility. Which wouldn't be the case in everything else you've said, especially given how many facts you've ignored.


Incorrect, you have provided unsubstantiated opinions, a valid point would have more than conjecture behind it, you also ignored the facts I've mentioned and also ignored the question I asked you but its ok, I am going to get that SPECIFIC Lakers fan or Ill just copy and paste one of his old arguments that completely destroys ur "valid points". You tell me which argument in the Kings-Lakers series is more convincing. The one that states facts or the one that states opinion.

I don't see why we should continue this then. The evidence is there if you don't want to see it not much i can do. Just re-watching the games from that 02 series is good enough. And again i ain't taking the word of a Laker fan on this. The rest of the stuff all i see is just a blah blah blah. What you really are expecting is a letter from Mr Stern admitting that this stuff did happen when in reality no paper trail or evidence is gonna be provided because it would be eliminated before it got out to the public. It just kinda seems like you work for the nba defending it so hard lol.

TheIlladelph16
09-05-2014, 01:26 PM
I legitimately question the intelligence of conspiracy theorists regarding the NBA. The leaps in logic that they have to put themselves through to make and semblance of a point, which is almost always rambling nonsense, is hilarious.

Dade, your schtick got old like three years ago. You fall into the far end of the crazy spectrum I reference above. Leave your house for a little bit once and a while, it will do your mind some good.

valade16
09-05-2014, 01:28 PM
Thats because its completely unfathomable that a plan to rig titles would boil down to those events in the first place. Why put them in such a precarious position in the first place?

Aren't you assuming that "rigging" the game means 100% certainty of success for one team over the other.

That doesn't necessarily have to be the case. One could "rig" a game by not allowing one team to blow out the other thereby providing greater drama and excitement (and therefore reveneue).

jericho
09-05-2014, 01:39 PM
I legitimately question the intelligence of conspiracy theorists regarding the NBA. The leaps in logic that they have to put themselves through to make and semblance of a point, which is almost always rambling nonsense, is hilarious.

Dade, your schtick got old like three years ago. You fall into the far end of the crazy spectrum I reference above. Leave your house for a little bit once and a while, it will do your mind some good.

And you are the sane one because you believe what they feed you :D

mRc08
09-05-2014, 01:49 PM
TBH the lottery seems pretty sketch. I mean with what the cavs have done, how d-rose ended up on the bulls, I mean I understand the "its a bounce of the balls" argument but the way it has played out make me feel eh....

It seems impossible that such a large corporation like the nba would be able to rig something that effects other enterprises (teams) in such a big way. Robbing other teams of the chance to get a star player is litterly stealing millions from their own business partners. Is that actually possible? almost no chance, but the lottery does seem like something that would be shown on WWE

TheIlladelph16
09-05-2014, 01:52 PM
And you are the sane one because you believe what they feed you :D

I believe what logic and reality dictate. Conspiracy theorists see what they want to see in the situation because they are frustrated with the end product. Sometimes **** just happens. A reality of the universe we live in is randomness even when it appears otherwise. Human beings and life were very likely created from randomness. Do you know what the odds of that are? Astronomically lower odds than the Cavs winning three lottery picks in four years, yet both happened.

There is so much overwhelming logic and evidence that none of this was fixed that the burden of proof is upon the conspiracy theorists to give us something more than "Well if you follow the clues." Thanks Scooby, but I'll stick to what the actual evidence shows me.

Chronz
09-05-2014, 01:56 PM
Aren't you assuming that "rigging" the game means 100% certainty of success for one team over the other.
Isn't that why he calls it "the script"? Bron knowingly controls/holds back in concert with the refs allowing certain things to happen. If the league wanted to rig titles (not games but actual championships) it could be doing alot more to ensure that. In either event, either side could argue for rigging against/for their team so its flawed no matter what.


That doesn't necessarily have to be the case. One could "rig" a game by not allowing one team to blow out the other thereby providing greater drama and excitement (and therefore reveneue).

Agreed. But thats not the sense of the word hes using. At least not from what Im understanding.

GoldDustTwin
09-05-2014, 02:14 PM
Considering the Cavs cap-space issues in 2010, and their draft position, it was clear that the Cavs weren't going to be able to add the pieces they needed to win. The NBA wanted their best and most marketable player in the finals, and the Cavs wanted to keep LBJ as much as he wanted to stay, but LBJ and Cleveland wanted championships.

The compromise?

The Cavs loan out LBJ for four years to the Miami Heat so the league could promote and market a super-team, while the Cavs get rewarded with three #1 picks. LeBron returns, and the Cavs have three All-Star calibre players on rookie contracts ready to form a new dynasty and keep LBJ in a title hunt for the rest of his career.

Of course, the Cavs have a $#!TTY GM, so they didn't get their All-Stars, but they got enough, and the T-Wolves got Wiggins (and who knows, maybe a #1 pick next year).

Part of the deal? The Clippers give their first-rounder to Cleveland, NBA ensures CP3 goes to LAC (blocks the Lakers trade), putting them in a position to win, and giving the Cavs more assets to add to LBJ. for his return.


Far fetched, yes, but come on.... 3 #1 picks in four years? How the fawk does that happen?

If this is meant to be a conspiracy theory that benefits the NBA, why is it that the NBA really doesn't profit from this at all?

Also, why is it in the NBA's interests to placate the wants of an otherwise peripheral franchise in a small market?

It seems a great deal of trouble to go to to ensure that the massive market of greater Cleveland is kept watching their TV's during the playoffs.

If you were talking about New York or LA this might approach the outer edges of "very, very skeptical".

Chronz
09-05-2014, 02:26 PM
I don't see why we should continue this then. The evidence is there if you don't want to see it not much i can do. Just re-watching the games from that 02 series is good enough.
LOL. As I've already explained, I've seen them, we've come to different conclusions none the less.


And again i ain't taking the word of a Laker fan on this.
Nobody is asking you to, Im just curious to see what you think of it. Haven't sent him the request yet but its coming.


The rest of the stuff all i see is just a blah blah blah. What you really are expecting is a letter from Mr Stern admitting that this stuff did happen when in reality no paper trail or evidence is gonna be provided because it would be eliminated before it got out to the public. It just kinda seems like you work for the nba defending it so hard lol.

Its really not that hard given what little you know about the situation. Ill be short and sweet, blah blah blah, aliens, blah blah blah.

valade16
09-05-2014, 02:39 PM
Isn't that why he calls it "the script"? Bron knowingly controls/holds back in concert with the refs allowing certain things to happen. If the league wanted to rig titles (not games but actual championships) it could be doing alot more to ensure that. In either event, either side could argue for rigging against/for their team so its flawed no matter what.


Agreed. But thats not the sense of the word hes using. At least not from what Im understanding.

Either way, as much as the conspiracy theorist in me really wants to believe this is all true, I just can't see it. I think the fantastical outcomes that inevitably occur in sports coupled with the secrecy and perceived image of Stern's tenure as Commissioner has caused people to write a narrative where the simpler narrative is "sports are unpredictable".

jericho
09-05-2014, 02:48 PM
LOL. As I've already explained, I've seen them, we've come to different conclusions none the less.


Nobody is asking you to, Im just curious to see what you think of it. Haven't sent him the request yet but its coming.


Its really not that hard given what little you know about the situation. Ill be short and sweet, blah blah blah, aliens, blah blah blah.

Now we've come to an understanding.

FlashBolt
09-05-2014, 04:57 PM
NBA wants to rig the draft so Cleveland can become the next fastest growing city in America and then all the investors over there will see an exponential growth in their investments! NBA wanted Cleveland to draft the legendary Canadian Andrew Bennett - the future MVP and clearly better than Anthony Davis! Yeah, good luck with that conspiracy. It sounds like you're forcing yourself to believe this nonsense. I can make a conspiracy about every and anything too. It's a conspiracy - not the truth. Go to sleep...

Arch Stanton
09-05-2014, 05:14 PM
The conspiracy theorists are really just angry/bitter fans.

JEDean89
09-05-2014, 06:36 PM
Anthony Davis >>> Thompson, Waiters, Irving, Bennet, Wiggins combined

jmartin80
09-06-2014, 10:12 AM
The conspiracy theorists are really just angry/bitter fans.

I can agree with this. Lebron has ruined the East and the NBA for a lot of fans for the last four years with boring, predictable playoffs. Now, he is doing it again.

Cleveland "fans" are really just hypocritical fans who now support everything they hated in 2010.

Arch Stanton
09-06-2014, 04:53 PM
I can agree with this. Lebron has ruined the East and the NBA for a lot of fans for the last four years with boring, predictable playoffs. Now, he is doing it again.

Cleveland "fans" are really just hypocritical fans who now support everything they hated in 2010.

So I guess that makes you a hypocrite during the Jordan era? I guess I shouldn't root for my team because they are contenders. Oh wait, are we contenders because apparently we only have a big two. We will need to trade Irving for George Hill to get our legit big 3.

Dade County
09-07-2014, 12:52 AM
Thats because its completely unfathomable that a plan to rig titles would boil down to those events in the first place. Why put them in such a precarious position in the first place?


I dont see how you could, the onus is on you to convince others of this conspiracy, not the other way around. I dont buy your excuse, there is too much money to be made by breaking such a story. The only way there isn't, is if the NBA is paying off those corporations. At some point the paper trail comes out. Wake me up when that happens.


LOL. I would say its his opinion. In this world we need actual proof. Show me a single player with a shred of proof, and Ill be interested. Not what something appears to be, which is subjective in itself, but actual proof.


Thats precisely my point. Its troubling that you dont see the connection. THIS is what YOU said;

It may take you 10 games to notice something fishy, or maybe just 2; you never know.

You cant tell someone to watch the games as the foundation to your reasoning and now say its completely subjective. Sounding senile really shows how little you have to stand on

Once again, I believe that this league is rigged; since Stern stepped foot into it lol... You don't believe it's rigged, but it's not my job to have to prove to you that the league is rigged (if thats what you was trying to say in your above post).

And if a player came out and said the league was rigged you still wouldn't believe until he brought you proof; so I am guessing you would need a video or an audio recording of some sort of conversation. OK...smh