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JasonJohnHorn
08-26-2014, 01:46 PM
Would any center today have been able to make an All-NBA team between 1983-97?

And would any have been able to make the All-NBA First team between 76-06?

Goose17
08-26-2014, 01:50 PM
Dwight.

People will disagree and hate but it's true.

I think a guy like Jefferson would have thrived back then personally, would have been interesting to see Marc Gasol play back then. Maybe some specialist guys, shot blockers, doubtful though.

GREATNESS ONE
08-26-2014, 01:52 PM
The league was loaded with big man talent between 83-97.

Saying that a few players would probably be able to but that game was different then. You had to be tough and have post game.

KnicksorBust
08-26-2014, 02:03 PM
D12
Bosh
Noah
Duncan
KG
Pau
Marc Gasol
Tyson Chandler
Al Horford
Brook Lopez

Soon to be...
Andre Drummond
Demarcus Cousins
Anthony Davis

Chronz
08-26-2014, 02:20 PM
Dwight would look abit better if he didn't have to deal with zone defenses, hes simply not good at surveying the floor quickly. Then again, they had less stretch-4 types to help him out too and his agility is what made him so unique in the small ball era. On the right team, I could see him making a few.

NYKalltheway
08-26-2014, 02:24 PM
All-NBA 1983-97? Very difficult. I don't see any centers that had that two-way effect. And Dwight would have been a PF mostly and even as a center he doesn't have the quality to be in such a list.

All-NBA 1976-06 is a tougher question. For starters, you have to eliminate the enormous physical advantage, accessories advantage (shoes etc) and all that things that come with a generation. Otherwise anyone can just assume various things that have no logical pattern. What we shouldn't assume is that the players have different skillsets. And that's why you can't have any modern players back then performing as their fanboys and modern NBA fanatics hope they would.

First team is hard. I don't think so. You are talking about dethroning Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Moses Malone, Bill Walton, Hakeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Shaquille O'Neal.. No way. I say no. Even in the lockout year where Zo was the 1st choice, he was superb and faced superior players to the ones we have now. I don't think anyone around was a

I'll exclude Duncan who's already in one of those lists(as a forward) but I don't think 2014-15 Duncan could be at that level by 2006.

Al Jefferson could have been a top 10 center during the first time period (83-97) for sure. I also think that a fit Tyson Chandler could have had a small impact in a few years defensively but other than that, the rest would have been lower tier players, not being able to participate in more than 82 games a year.

jaydubb
08-26-2014, 02:30 PM
Wow tough question.. The nba is very weak at center at the moment, I'd have to take every single year apart and double check but that's gonna be hard.. Your talking about dethroning some of the all time greats during those years..

Shlumpledink
08-26-2014, 02:39 PM
Nah, the league was a bigman's league back then. The quality of bigmen, and the size and skill of said bigmen makes it tough to beat them.

Maybe Howard could come close a couple years, I would love to see him guarded by Ewing/Robinson/Olajuwon/Mutumbo/Shaq to see what he really was made of

jaydubb
08-26-2014, 02:41 PM
Nah, the league was a bigman's league back then. The quality of bigmen, and the size and skill of said bigmen makes it tough to beat them.

Maybe Howard could come close a couple years, I would love to see him guarded by Ewing/Robinson/Olajuwon/Mutumbo/Shaq to see what he really was made of

Dwight wouldn't do **** against any of those guys primes, that's the truth

Hawkeye15
08-26-2014, 04:10 PM
How many of today's PG's would have flooded those same years all NBA teams? Hell, Rose/Westbrook are SG's back then, leaving Curry/CP3/Parker, and more to suck up plenty of spots from those same years all NBA teams.

In reality, the game has changed. People can complain about it or not care. It just has. And it will keep changing.

LOVE42
08-26-2014, 04:20 PM
How many of today's PG's would have flooded those same years all NBA teams? Hell, Rose/Westbrook are SG's back then, leaving Curry/CP3/Parker, and more to suck up plenty of spots from those same years all NBA teams.

In reality, the game has changed. People can complain about it or not care. It just has. And it will keep changing.
Is there an explanation for why it's become such a guard/wing dominated league?

NYKalltheway
08-26-2014, 04:25 PM
How many of today's PG's would have flooded those same years all NBA teams? Hell, Rose/Westbrook are SG's back then, leaving Curry/CP3/Parker, and more to suck up plenty of spots from those same years all NBA teams.

In reality, the game has changed. People can complain about it or not care. It just has. And it will keep changing.


Not many really. It was a different game. There was no room for most of them. I know you're gonna say Isiah Thomas but not quite. They wouldn't have open lanes to begin with. That makes most of their game redundant.

Selfish guards back then was something that you'd see on the bench, not in an all star game. And please don't give me "assist statistics" because they really don't show the lack of selfishness from these modern guards. Almost all of these flashy guards have a score first mentality. Even guys like Chris Paul and Tony Parker.
The only PGs that could play in the earlier eras as starters are guys like Hinrich, Calderon, Rubio while I think the only one capable of doing some noise would be Steph Curry and that's due to his range. But I'm not sure he'd be anything more than a Dana Barros.

Hawkeye15
08-26-2014, 04:57 PM
Not many really. It was a different game. There was no room for most of them. I know you're gonna say Isiah Thomas but not quite. They wouldn't have open lanes to begin with. That makes most of their game redundant.

Selfish guards back then was something that you'd see on the bench, not in an all star game. And please don't give me "assist statistics" because they really don't show the lack of selfishness from these modern guards. Almost all of these flashy guards have a score first mentality. Even guys like Chris Paul and Tony Parker.
The only PGs that could play in the earlier eras as starters are guys like Hinrich, Calderon, Rubio while I think the only one capable of doing some noise would be Steph Curry and that's due to his range. But I'm not sure he'd be anything more than a Dana Barros.

selfishness? No. The rules now make it easier for guards, and harder for bigs. Production wise, whether you want to credit the style today versus yesterday, the modern PG's put up better numbers. Bigs do not, because of zone, the 5 second backdown rule, and various other reasons.

My point is, in creating this thread, you are simply ignoring the rule changes. Those bigs back then wouldn't have dominated the same today, because there are rules to limit them. Where as those rules for hand checking, and the three point line being such a huge play now, would mean the guards from yesterday would be better today.

My point was, if you are just going to create a question without context, then we can easily throw Richmond/Price/Hardaway/Dumars/Ellis, and plenty of others off the all NBA teams and sub them with CP3, Curry, Parker, Rose, Westbrook, etc.

Phil Ford made an all NBA team. Phil ****ing Ford, with his whopping 5.7 win shares and a PER of 15.

Hawkeye15
08-26-2014, 04:59 PM
Is there an explanation for why it's become such a guard/wing dominated league?

because people were sick of seeing the ball dumped into the post, the post player sucking up 15 seconds of the clock, and scoring went down, because even though there was a 3 point line, it wasn't being taken advantage of. The new rules basically made it so you could zone a big man, effectively limiting where he can go, and when they implemented no hand checking, guards/wings had free reign. The more it moved to a perimeter game, the more bigs started developing perimeter skills, and the 3 point line started picking up steam.

JasonJohnHorn
08-26-2014, 05:18 PM
How many of today's PG's would have flooded those same years all NBA teams? Hell, Rose/Westbrook are SG's back then, leaving Curry/CP3/Parker, and more to suck up plenty of spots from those same years all NBA teams.

In reality, the game has changed. People can complain about it or not care. It just has. And it will keep changing.

I think the point guard position is just as deep as it ever was. Perhaps more so.

We have Kidd and Nash just wrapping up their careers, but D-Will under Jerry Sloan would have been a top 5 point guard in the late 80's early 90's, and CP3, to me, is as good as just about any point guard. If he's competing with Magic, Stockton, Thomas and KJ for an All-Point guard spot.... he's going to get a couple.

Then you got guys like Curry blossoming into something special, and defensive specialist who can pass in Rondo.

Look at 86: Alvin Robertson and Sindy Moncrief made the second team. 89 was KJ on the 2nd team and Dale Ellis and Mark Price on the 3rd team. Mark Price made the 1st team in 93.

With KJ and Mark Price getting All-NBA team nods, I think it is fair to say that guys like CP3 and Curry would be able to make the team.

THE MTL
08-26-2014, 06:57 PM
I'm going to say no. The all nba teams only had 3 centers and maybe an extra man if we slide them over to PF.

But between Moses, Jabbar, Shaq, Ewing, Robinson, Hakeem, Coleman, Kemp, Parish, etc. I'm going to say no

Confusious
08-26-2014, 07:18 PM
I'd say Joakim Noah could. Dwight's far too soft for the 90s. His goofiness would have been ripped to shreds.

NYKalltheway
08-26-2014, 08:21 PM
With KJ and Mark Price getting All-NBA team nods, I think it is fair to say that guys like CP3 and Curry would be able to make the team.

Mark Price is what Steph Curry dreams of becoming...
And Kevin Johnson was insanely good. I don't think you realize what players you're talking about here so lightly.

5ass
08-26-2014, 10:12 PM
I'd say Joakim Noah could. Dwight's far too soft for the 90s. His goofiness would have been ripped to shreds.

No way. Dwight would do OK in the 90s his defense translates well in any era. Noah would get destroyed trying to guard those elite bigger centers.

mightybosstone
08-26-2014, 11:38 PM
It would depend on the year. Everyone's speaking in generalities, but if you look at the actual lists, there's a lot of opportunities. Looking at 83-97, I see these years as real possibilities:
88-89: Parish made All-NBA third team with a 19/13/2/2/1
91-92: Dougherty made All-NBA third team with a 21/10/4, Hakeem missed significant time with injuries
95-96, 96-97: Shaq made All-NBA third team with ridiculous numbers, but played in only 54 and 51 games those years

Are there any centers today that are better than a prime Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq, Moses, Robinson or Ewing? No, But those are all top 30 all-time players. That doesn't mean centers today couldn't have still been really successful in that era or cracked the top three in an off year for one of those guys.

MTar786
08-26-2014, 11:50 PM
seeing as kaj/malone/Ewing/Robinson/Olajuwon/Mutumbo/Shaq/mourning would have all been around at one point or another. Im going to say hell no. i bet there are a few centers im even forgetting to name