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View Full Version : It's Official - K. Love to the Cavaliers



chi-townlove1
08-23-2014, 01:06 PM
The long-awaited Kevin Love trade from the Minnesota Timberwolves to the Cleveland Cavaliers will finally be formalized soon, but there was an unexpected twist near the end: Anthony Bennett won't go to the Philadelphia 76ers as part of the three-team deal after all.

According to a person with knowledge of the deal that will be finalized on Saturday, the Cavaliers forward and 2013 No. 1 pick who was rumored to be headed for the 76ers will be retained by the Timberwolves. He'll join 2014 No. 1 pick and fellow Cavaliers youngster Andrew Wiggins in Minnesota, where the Timberwolves will also receive 76ers forward Thaddeus Young and a trade exception (which allows teams to acquire players via trade without taking players back in return) worth more than $5 million.

Minnesota will send Luc Mbah a Moute, Alexey Shved (both expiring contracts) and a 2015 first-round pick (via the Miami Heat) to Philadelphia. The Cavaliers, of course, land the three-time All-Star in Love who will join LeBron James, Kyrie Irving & Co. on the most unexpected of title contenders. The person spoke to USA TODAY Sports on the condition of anonymity because the deal — which was delayed because of league rules relating to Wiggins' contract — can't be formalized until Saturday.

The Minneapolis Star Tribune first reported that the final terms of the three-team trade had been agreed upon.

When the deal was first agreed on in principle in early August, it was a two-team trade in which the Timberwolves would land Wiggins, Bennett and a future first-round pick. Instead, they'll add Wiggins, Bennett, and Young to the roster that still includes the likes of point guard Ricky Rubio, shooting guard Kevin Martin, small forward Corey Brewer and center Nikola Pekovic from its 2013-14 starting lineup.

Minnesota, which went 40-42 last season before president of basketball operations Flip Saunders decided to add the head coaching role to his duties in the wake of Rick Adelman's retirement, is hopeful that the injection of young and athletic talent coupled with the veteran presence can make for a positive situation. Still, the odds of the Timberwolves ending their decade-long playoff drought anytime soon in the loaded Western Conference certainly appear slim.

The 76ers, meanwhile, continue down their longest of rebuilding roads while losing their best player from their awful 2013-14 campaign (19-63). Young, who averaged a career high of 17.9 points, six rebounds and 2.1 steals last season, is entering the final year of his deal.

As for the Cavaliers, they get their man in Love at a relative bargain. Wiggins was an asset they never expected to have at their disposal for this sort of game-changing scenario, as they entered the draft lottery with a 1.7% chance of drafting first overall and walked away with their third top pick in the last four years. The Bennett subplot wasn't nearly as much of a surprise the year prior, as Cleveland entered with the best odds of landing the top pick of any team (15.6%) and surprised the masses by taking Bennett out of UNLV. And now, both players have allowed these most-fortunate Cavaliers to do what they couldn't do when James was there the first time around (2003-10): give him not only one formidable co-star, but two.

James made his surprising decision to leave the Miami Heat last month without knowing that Love would be part of the Cavaliers' plan, but he now finds himself heading a roster that should be among the Eastern Conference elite. As James said in his Sports Illustrated essay explaining his decision to return to his home state, "My patience will get tested."
Just not nearly as much as he may have thought back then.

Greedy22
08-23-2014, 05:41 PM
Lol Gilbert cries foul in 2011 to nix the cp3 trade only to do the same thing less than 3 years later.

ink
08-23-2014, 05:43 PM
Wolves got some solid pieces. It would be awesome to see them take off.

JustinTime
08-23-2014, 05:56 PM
Wolves got some solid pieces. It would be awesome to see them take off.

Wolves would be a playoff team in the East. It would be funny if they beat Cleveland when they meet, doubt it but I can hope.

JLeBeau76
08-23-2014, 06:16 PM
Wolves would be a playoff team in the East. It would be funny if they beat Cleveland when they meet, doubt it but I can hope.

I think this years wolves could be an 8 seed in last years east but I don't see it this year.

Washington, Charlotte, Miami, Cleveland, Toronto, Chicago are clearly better while the Knicks, Pacers and Nets are arguably better.

And I say this about THIS years Wolves. I think in two years they will be a playoff team in the West.

Confusious
08-23-2014, 07:09 PM
Wolves would be a playoff team in the East. It would be funny if they beat Cleveland when they meet, doubt it but I can hope.
I'd probably cry and have to use my tears as lubricant to shame myself...

Wolves definitely got a VERY good package for a guy that was 1000% on his way out. So kudos to them. And kudos for keeping the Canadians together. I truly hope they do well in Minny, and I'll be watching the Wolves again this year just to see how they do.

JustinTime
08-23-2014, 07:20 PM
I think this years wolves could be an 8 seed in last years east but I don't see it this year.

Washington, Charlotte, Miami, Cleveland, Toronto, Chicago are clearly better while the Knicks, Pacers and Nets are arguably better.

And I say this about THIS years Wolves. I think in two years they will be a playoff team in the West.

Pacers without George aren't better I know that much. I haven't really been paying attention to the Knicks what did they do to get better? Brooklyn lost some players but will have Lopez back and a years worth of experience so I agree they might be better.

I really don't know what to expect from the Wolves but I do expect Bennett and Wiggins to be hungry to prove themselves after all they've been through and I would not be surprised if they were a lot better than people may think. Minnesota has a lot of good 2-way players on their team right now and any time you have a squad that can play elite defense you can expect surprises.

JustinTime
08-23-2014, 07:23 PM
I'd probably cry and have to use my tears as lubricant to shame myself...

Wolves definitely got a VERY good package for a guy that was 1000% on his way out. So kudos to them. And kudos for keeping the Canadians together. I truly hope they do well in Minny, and I'll be watching the Wolves again this year just to see how they do.

Nothing would give me more pleasure than seeing Lebron egotistical *** lose to Wiggins. That Lebron face would be priceless if it happened.

east fb knicks
08-23-2014, 07:47 PM
the twolves got off great in this trade they could make the playoffs out west nobody knows how good wiggins and bennet can be plus young is a good replacement for love this might be like the melo trade when the nuggets got better after trading melo Rubio is the perfect pg for wiggins and is very underrated along with pek the wolves aren't going to be a lottery team next year

R. Johnson#3
08-23-2014, 08:08 PM
The Wolves will definitely be an exciting team to watch.

jaydubb
08-23-2014, 10:12 PM
the twolves got off great in this trade they could make the playoffs out west nobody knows how good wiggins and bennet can be plus young is a good replacement for love this might be like the melo trade when the nuggets got better after trading melo Rubio is the perfect pg for wiggins and is very underrated along with pek the wolves aren't going to be a lottery team next year

Ehhh I think I like this trade for the wolves more then most non timberwolves fans do, but I don't think they'll make the playoffs this year.. The west is waaaay too stacked. I can see them being a top 4 team in 3-5 years tho when these young guys mature. Only time will tell, I'll definitely keep an eye out in them this year tho wit my league pass

pebloemer
08-23-2014, 10:33 PM
What a great deal for the Twolves - (and an understandably exciting one for the Cavs).

bucketss
08-23-2014, 10:38 PM
wait so.. wolves couldn't make the playoffs with kevin love, who is supposedly a superstar. but with the addition of bennet/wiggins/young some people are saying they can?

JustinTime
08-23-2014, 11:51 PM
wait so.. wolves couldn't make the playoffs with kevin love, who is supposedly a superstar. but with the addition of bennet/wiggins/young some people are saying they can?

They lost a so-called superstar who plays 0 D in Love and added 4 future 2-way caliber players according to Flip Saunders. I have to see more of Bennett's defense because I never thought he was that great on d even in college but apparently Mike Brown said he was the Cavs best pick-and-roll defender last year so we'll see. Lavine is raw defensively as well but he has all the athleticism to be good. Thad Young and Wiggins can already play d so I think the T-wolves could definitely be better than last year. Cleveland gave up way too much in this trade, Love isn't even willing to sign an extension at this time.

JLeBeau76
08-24-2014, 12:17 AM
They lost a so-called superstar who plays 0 D in Love and added 4 future 2-way caliber players according to Flip Saunders. I have to see more of Bennett's defense because I never thought he was that great on d even in college but apparently Mike Brown said he was the Cavs best pick-and-roll defender last year so we'll see. Lavine is raw defensively as well but he has all the athleticism to be good. Thad Young and Wiggins can already play d so I think the T-wolves could definitely be better than last year. Cleveland gave up way too much in this trade, Love isn't even willing to sign an extension at this time.

Remember, Cleveland offered Waiters, Bennett and the number one pick before the draft for Love (that would have been too much). Also, when you think about it honestly, the Cavs only gave up two unproven talents and a pick they got for LeBron to get arguably the top PF in the game.

I'm not saying the Wolves didn't do great in getting what they got but don't act like we traded the family cow for a few beans, lol.

It was win-win all around and everyone got what they were looking for.

Also, sorry, but AB was horribly slow on defense last season. That was the main reason Brown barely played him. Being trimmed down, he should have more to offer on that end.

Dade County
08-24-2014, 12:40 AM
James made his surprising decision to leave the Miami Heat last month without knowing that Love would be part of the Cavaliers' plan, but he now finds himself heading a roster that should be among the Eastern Conference elite. As James said in his Sports Illustrated essay explaining his decision to return to his home state, "My patience will get tested."
Just not nearly as much as he may have thought back then.

:laugh2:

Sure he didn't.

JustinTime
08-24-2014, 12:43 AM
Remember, Cleveland offered Waiters, Bennett and the number one pick before the draft for Love (that would have been too much). Also, when you think about it honestly, the Cavs only gave up two unproven talents and a pick they got for LeBron to get arguably the top PF in the game.

I'm not saying the Wolves didn't do great in getting what they got but don't act like we traded the family cow for a few beans, lol.

It was win-win all around and everyone got what they were looking for.

Also, sorry, but AB was horribly slow on defense last season. That was the main reason Brown barely played him. Being trimmed down, he should have more to offer on that end.

I know but it was Brown who apparently told Saunders that he was the Cavs best pick-and-roll defender last year despite being out of shape. But yea I still think Cavs traded too much especially since Love isn't even signing an extension. Wiggins and Bennett are unproven for sure but they are also two guys that were picked first overall and typically a guy who goes first overall did something to earn it.

JustinTime
08-24-2014, 12:46 AM
:laugh2:

Sure he didn't.

haha how gullible can someone be to believe that BS,

bucketss
08-24-2014, 01:08 AM
:laugh2:

Sure he didn't.

lol i know right, the script writers would have to let lebron in on whats happening.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-24-2014, 02:19 AM
C-Pekovic
PF-Bennett
SF-Wiggins
SG-LaVine
PG-Rubio

That fast paced offense is absolutely fun to watch.

east fb knicks
08-24-2014, 02:46 AM
Remember, Cleveland offered Waiters, Bennett and the number one pick before the draft for Love (that would have been too much). Also, when you think about it honestly, the Cavs only gave up two unproven talents and a pick they got for LeBron to get arguably the top PF in the game.

I'm not saying the Wolves didn't do great in getting what they got but don't act like we traded the family cow for a few beans, lol.

It was win-win all around and everyone got what they were looking for.

Also, sorry, but AB was horribly slow on defense last season. That was the main reason Brown barely played him. Being trimmed down, he should have more to offer on that end.

bennet i'll give you but teams were tanking hard for wiggins he might be unproven but him embiid and parker are some of the best prospects to come out of the draft in a while

bleedprple&gold
08-24-2014, 03:21 AM
Ehhh I think I like this trade for the wolves more then most non timberwolves fans do, but I don't think they'll make the playoffs this year.. The west is waaaay too stacked. I can see them being a top 4 team in 3-5 years tho when these young guys mature. Only time will tell, I'll definitely keep an eye out in them this year tho wit my league pass

I agree no way T-Wolves makes the playoffs this year, the west is just too good and they need more time to develop. They lost a perennial all-star in Love and basically added 3 rookies (Bennett is practically a rookie because you can throw away last year) along with Young. These guys are going to need some time to develop and gel but the future is looking bright in Minny.

bbcmillionaire
08-24-2014, 03:50 AM
lol I wonder how much and if they're willing to part ways with Kevin love.
Rose-brooks
Martin-hinrich-snell
Butler-dunleavy-McDermott
Gasol-Gibson
Noah-mirotic
Would be a great bulls vs cavs series

Goose17
08-24-2014, 04:54 AM
Anyone that thinks Minny is finishing higher than 12th are kidding themselves.

VikesTwinsWolve
08-24-2014, 10:02 AM
^^^^^Funny how Klay Thompson is pissed that his name was possibly in on the Klove trade! ha Who the hell does klay think he is MJ? Anyone who thinks Klay is too good to trade for Klove Is kidding themselves!

Cal827
08-24-2014, 10:07 AM
^^^ Anyone who thinks that Kevin Love is a superstar is kidding themselves

VikesTwinsWolve
08-24-2014, 10:21 AM
^^^Can't wait for Klove to win a title soon to put all this BS to rest.

Goose17
08-24-2014, 10:41 AM
^^^^^Funny how Klay Thompson is pissed that his name was possibly in on the Klove trade! ha Who the hell does klay think he is MJ? Anyone who thinks Klay is too good to trade for Klove Is kidding themselves!

What does that have to do with anything? And he never said he was pissed or angry or anything of the sort. That's just Ric Bucher stirring ****.

And the trade was never Klay for Love. You need to follow the league more.

Goose17
08-24-2014, 10:44 AM
^^^Can't wait for Klove to win a title soon to put all this BS to rest.

That won't put it to rest. He'll never get credit for winning any titles as long as he is under Lebrons wing. That's how it works unfortunately.

I.E Chris Bosh.

WSU Tony
08-24-2014, 11:40 AM
Remember, Cleveland offered Waiters, Bennett and the number one pick before the draft for Love (that would have been too much). Also, when you think about it honestly, the Cavs only gave up two unproven talents and a pick they got for LeBron to get arguably the top PF in the game.

I'm not saying the Wolves didn't do great in getting what they got but don't act like we traded the family cow for a few beans, lol.

It was win-win all around and everyone got what they were looking for.

Also, sorry, but AB was horribly slow on defense last season. That was the main reason Brown barely played him. Being trimmed down, he should have more to offer on that end.

Weren't you arguing just weeks ago that Wiggins, Bennett, and a #1 was too much to give up for love? Now you're defending what was traded and even agree with the package? Sounds like you were off base a few weeks ago but now have come to the realization I was trying to explain to you. :)

JLeBeau76
08-24-2014, 02:12 PM
Weren't you arguing just weeks ago that Wiggins, Bennett, and a #1 was too much to give up for love? Now you're defending what was traded and even agree with the package? Sounds like you were off base a few weeks ago but now have come to the realization I was trying to explain to you. :)

No, actually I never said that but thanks for trying. Try baiting someone else.

WSU Tony
08-24-2014, 04:36 PM
No, actually I never said that but thanks for trying. Try baiting someone else.

Keeping you honest with your comments and positions isn't baiting.

Arch Stanton
08-24-2014, 06:57 PM
Keeping you honest with your comments and positions isn't baiting.

Yes it's baiting because you've been saying this to pretty much every Cavs fan, but yet are still unable to back it up. Get a life!

Confusious
08-24-2014, 07:05 PM
^^^ Anyone who thinks that Kevin Love is a superstar is kidding themselves
This quote is signature worthy. And I don't put people's dumbass statements in sigs, but I am SO tempted with this one, because it's on a whole other level of mental retardation.

Bulls_fan90
08-24-2014, 07:38 PM
Wolves won this trade. There was no way they could have possible got anymore out of Kevin love who was clearly never going to stay there.

Can't wait to see the young Wolves.

KINGOFSPORTS
08-24-2014, 09:08 PM
Cavs continue to make the worst decisions of any organization in pro sports

They draft is rigged to a point where its statistically impossible that they receiv 3 #1 picks in 5 years and they STILL mess it up.

Mark these words down:

K Love will not be healthy enough to make a multi year run at NBA titles. He also doesnt play any defense.

Cavs just traded a 2 way Wing Player with as much upside as any player in the League PLUS more for K love

What a disgraceful franchise. Lebron might consider leaving after he sees what a trainwreck this is....

WHos coaching them BTW? Some european guy??

OMG this is scuh a trainwreck. Good for Twolves though - they finally got something going imo

WSU Tony
08-24-2014, 09:12 PM
Yes it's baiting because you've been saying this to pretty much every Cavs fan, but yet are still unable to back it up. Get a life!

I'm not going back 30 days worth of posts to quote you. People can be called out for flip flopping in a 30 day period. It keeps people honest.

Arch Stanton
08-24-2014, 09:46 PM
I'm not going back 30 days worth of posts to quote you. People can be called out for flip flopping in a 30 day period. It keeps people honest.

Well seeing that you've been claiming this for the past month and for the past month I've asked you to show me where I have stated this. You're full of ****!

More-Than-Most
08-24-2014, 09:50 PM
Amazing.

Love on Woles.... top 5 player in basketball..
Love leaves wolves and Joins James.... Worst player ever who plays no defense and cavs wont do anything

ClevelandSpider
08-24-2014, 10:09 PM
Amazing.

Love on Woles.... top 5 player in basketball..
Love leaves wolves and Joins James.... Worst player ever who plays no defense and cavs wont do anything

Exactly. It's the same fools who wrote off Bennett this year, said he's the worst #1 of all time, shouldn't have been drafted in the top 10 etc, and are now saying hes gonna be something special. Love is proven, Wiggins is potential. Does Wiggins reach the level Kevin Love is at right now? I wouldn't bet on that, he could but odds are he won't. Kevin Love is top 10 NBA right now, the Cavs realistically have a shot at contending for a title for the next 6 years before LeBron starts declining and the team needs retooling. In 6 years Wiggins may be an MVP caliber player, again I wouldn't bet on it, but you know what you have in Love right now, its time to win now...people hate Cleveland and love to kick the city while it's down, rather than root against the Boston's and NY and LA's who consistently win pro sports championships, they choose to root against the underdog, the also ran Cleveland teams, its pathetic, and nothing but dumb words come out of their mouths when they try to argue sports or give takes on Cleveland teams they never watch and know nothing about...

The Cavs have mad assets, next year Haywoods contract turns into a $10.5 million expiring, plus the 3 nonguaranteeds for this season...I would bet the Grizz don't make the playoffs this season and the Cavs have a lottery pick to further add to the team along with their own 1st rounder...the Cavs may not win it all this year, but I'd bet the farm they at least win one before LeBron retires and thus ends the title drought in the "Land." It's an exciting time to be a Cleveland fan!

WSU Tony
08-24-2014, 10:51 PM
Well seeing that you've been claiming this for the past month and for the past month I've asked you to show me where I have stated this. You're full of ****!

Here.


I tell Flip to &$@! Off and invest our assets (less assets) into a rim protecting big that will pay dividends. I think even better than adding Love. Then you have Wiggins, LeBron, and ? Rim Protecting Big protecting Kyrie/Dion's defensive deficiencies.

ClevelandSpider
08-24-2014, 11:04 PM
Here.

Really? He was responding to rumors the cavs would have to send out waiters to Philly and take back Martin in order to get love, I think everyone even twolves fans would agree that's too much and those rumors turned out to be false...he argued we'd be better off investing our assets in other players, nowhere did he say at least in that conversation that Wiggins Bennett and a first were too much, try again, you're really starting to look like a foolish troll...

ClevelandSpider
08-24-2014, 11:11 PM
Here.

Oh and BTW, you're confusing two separate posters and saying they both said the same thing, Jlebeau and arch, your posts are all sorts of effed up right now tony, just stop and don't post again and we'll know you know you're wrong and admit it and take responsibility for it and we won bring it up again

Arch Stanton
08-24-2014, 11:12 PM
Really? He was responding to rumors the cavs would have to send out waiters to Philly and take back Martin in order to get love, I think everyone even twolves fans would agree that's too much and those rumors turned out to be false...he argued we'd be better off investing our assets in other players, nowhere did he say at least in that conversation that Wiggins Bennett and a first were too much, try again, you're really starting to look like a foolish troll...

Yep exactly this. WSU Troll forgot to add that little detail about Flip trying to get the Cavs to take back Martins/Bareas contracts in addition to the package recently sent to Minny.

PurpleJesus
08-24-2014, 11:31 PM
This one is pretty good.


I tend to agree with you. I hope LeBron's letter was genuine and not a image restoring ploy. I do think he wants to stay in NE Ohio, but he has a nagging need to win it all each year. Personally I think Wiggins is too much so a Wiggins and Bennett plus a first is WAY too much. Maybe I'm biased because the Cavs got **** for LeBron? I understand why Minny wants what it wants because why not? But I'd hold off. They're trying scare the Cavs into thinking a deal with GS is happening. I'd deal Wiggins in a trade for Love, but only Wiggins goes. That's it. I understand money needs to match and that's why a 3rd team is necessary. I'm kind of hoping that Minny is just too greedy that they burn any trade possibility right now and get hosed later this year. No offense Wolves fans.

how are you going to play that one away? At one point, Wiggins alone was too much, now Wiggins, Bennett and a first is just fine.

Oefarmy2005
08-24-2014, 11:38 PM
Keeping you honest with your comments and positions isn't baiting.
Seriously Tony, JleBeau was always on board with the trade - you are barking up the wrong tree. The rest are a bunch of flip floppers. And to close this message, Love plays average defense and is not injury prone. This was a win for the Cavs and hopefully a win for the Wolves if Wiggins turns out. If Wiggins busts, its a one sided trade, because I have zero doubt Love will resign with the Cavs.

Hawkeye15
08-24-2014, 11:44 PM
Amazing.

Love on Woles.... top 5 player in basketball..
Love leaves wolves and Joins James.... Worst player ever who plays no defense and cavs wont do anything

until he helps LeBron win a ring, then he is the greatest 2nd option ever...

Arch Stanton
08-24-2014, 11:45 PM
This one is pretty good.



how are you going to play that one away? At one point, Wiggins alone was too much, now Wiggins, Bennett and a first is just fine.

Good job! You got me. But I don't remember preaching this in the main forum or really any forum as Tonys been alluding. And btw in that post I did say Id include Wiggins for Love so there's that! And I'm pretty sure that is what Tonys been claiming all along. You must have a lot of time on your hands!
Let's be clear I did say I thought it was too much and now I am accepting the trade. There you win! Now **** off!

More-Than-Most
08-24-2014, 11:51 PM
until he helps LeBron win a ring, then he is the greatest 2nd option ever...

lol yea forgot about this... once they win a ring its because they had bestest and deepest team everz

PurpleJesus
08-24-2014, 11:52 PM
Good job! You got me. But I don't remember preaching this in the main forum or really any forum as Tonys been alluding. And btw in that post I did say Id include Wiggins for Love so there's that! And I'm pretty sure that is what Tonys been claiming all along. You must have a lot of time on your hands!
Let's be clear I did say I thought it was too much and now I am accepting the trade. There you win! Now **** off!

woh, sorry man, i thought you had thicker skin.

Cal827
08-25-2014, 12:04 AM
This quote is signature worthy. And I don't put people's dumbass statements in sigs, but I am SO tempted with this one, because it's on a whole other level of mental retardation.

Go right ahead, I stand by my point. Wade was the only clear superstar that Lebron got to play with (at the beginning).

To be deemed a Superstar, you have to play on both sides of the ball, and be able to carry your team when the rest of the team is down. As of today, the only ones around who are true superstars are Kevin Durant and Lebron James (at least in my opinion). With those two, you know that these guys will get you to where you need to go.

There were more superstars in the past, but many of them aren't anymore as age or injury (or both) have caught up to them. Examples of this include Wade, Dirk (kinda a question mark on this due to not being too good of a defender), Duncan, and (likely) Kobe. For the most part, these guys would put the team on their back if the time called.

Kevin Love is a Star Player. I think he's one of the best offensive PFs in the League. He puts up monster numbers, but where exactly are the accomplishments? He's had issues staying healthy, but when he has been, the team hasn't exactly gotten into the playoffs. And while he puts up the good numbers on one side of the ball, he gets burned a lot on the other end. Perhaps it's lack of effort or focus, either way it's not acceptable how he is on that side of the ball. He reminds me quite a bit of Chris Bosh (just with more range and a slightly more range) when he was in Toronto. Just before Bosh left, he also had a few monster seasons (I think he averaged like 25-11 in his last year here).

I expect that Love will focus more on the defensive end, like Bosh did after his first season in Miami more, making the Cavs a much more formidable team (as in most of the people who have them winning the East, would also have them winning the title, not getting wrecked by the WC champion), but now that he's on the Cavs, he'll never have to really carry that team (as Lebron is there to do that).

I guess we have a general disagreement on what we require from a player to deem them a superstar lol

JustinTime
08-25-2014, 12:34 AM
Go right ahead, I stand by my point. Wade was the only clear superstar that Lebron got to play with (at the beginning).

To be deemed a Superstar, you have to play on both sides of the ball, and be able to carry your team when the rest of the team is down. As of today, the only ones around who are true superstars are Kevin Durant and Lebron James (at least in my opinion). With those two, you know that these guys will get you to where you need to go.

There were more superstars in the past, but many of them aren't anymore as age or injury (or both) have caught up to them. Examples of this include Wade, Dirk (kinda a question mark on this due to not being too good of a defender), Duncan, and (likely) Kobe. For the most part, these guys would put the team on their back if the time called.

Kevin Love is a Star Player. I think he's one of the best offensive PFs in the League. He puts up monster numbers, but where exactly are the accomplishments? He's had issues staying healthy, but when he has been, the team hasn't exactly gotten into the playoffs. And while he puts up the good numbers on one side of the ball, he gets burned a lot on the other end. Perhaps it's lack of effort or focus, either way it's not acceptable how he is on that side of the ball. He reminds me quite a bit of Chris Bosh (just with more range and a slightly more range) when he was in Toronto. Just before Bosh left, he also had a few monster seasons (I think he averaged like 25-11 in his last year here).

I expect that Love will focus more on the defensive end, like Bosh did after his first season in Miami more, making the Cavs a much more formidable team (as in most of the people who have them winning the East, would also have them winning the title, not getting wrecked by the WC champion), but now that he's on the Cavs, he'll never have to really carry that team (as Lebron is there to do that).

I guess we have a general disagreement on what we require from a player to deem them a superstar lol

Love is just a star, only 2 way players are superstars.

TheIlladelph16
08-25-2014, 01:35 AM
until he helps LeBron win a ring, then he is the greatest 2nd option ever...


lol yea forgot about this... once they win a ring its because they had bestest and deepest team everz

It's incredible. IMO It's a combination of posters who seriously just hate James and Lakers homer who are 1) pissed off that their hometown boy wanted the trade to Cleveland rather than going to LA in FA and 2) are just coming to terms with the fact that it's 2014 and not every star player wants to play for their team anymore (Durant 2016!). This forum is absolutely insane sometimes.

JLeBeau76
08-25-2014, 05:46 AM
Seriously Tony, JleBeau was always on board with the trade - you are barking up the wrong tree. The rest are a bunch of flip floppers. And to close this message, Love plays average defense and is not injury prone. This was a win for the Cavs and hopefully a win for the Wolves if Wiggins turns out. If Wiggins busts, its a one sided trade, because I have zero doubt Love will resign with the Cavs.

Thanks guys! Tony is just looking for validation for saying the trade was going to go this way....which it did and Tony was right in what I remember anyway (minus the baiting and homer bashing of course).

Dude just needs to express himself better but its all good. The wolves deserve an A for what they got back and kudos for Flip for staying the course.

As for K Love, well, to be honest I haven't watched alot of his games but experts and his stats say that he is a super star talent. Knock stats all you want but if they were that easy to put up, wouldn't everyone be doing it?

Even delving into the advanced stats like win share, warp and the like he is up there with the very best in the league.

Does he have some deficiencies on defense? I guess, from wHat I hear. But experts again have said that he is average in that area.

Idk, I will see once the season starts.

Just looking forward to some meaningful basketball again and am happy Wolves fans are close to this as well.

VikesTwinsWolve
08-25-2014, 08:14 AM
That won't put it to rest. He'll never get credit for winning any titles as long as he is under Lebrons wing. That's how it works unfortunately.

I.E Chris Bosh.
I don't see a Lebron on your roster, so ill assume the Warriors never win a title.

WSU Tony
08-25-2014, 10:12 AM
Thanks guys! Tony is just looking for validation for saying the trade was going to go this way....which it did and Tony was right in what I remember anyway (minus the baiting and homer bashing of course).

Dude just needs to express himself better but its all good.

I shouldn't lump you in with the "rest" of the Cavs fans - that's my mistake.

I guess my frustration lies in that Cavs fans seem fine/thrilled with this trade now. It was less than 30 days ago many Cavs fans had a VERY strong opinion to keep Wiggins. They didn't understand that Wiggins probably won't live up to his potential and probably won't ever be as good of a player as Love is now. Many Cavs fans didn't understand that going for a title now, while Lebron is in his prime, is important. I had push back on both of these topics only 30 days ago. Now, though, after the trade goes through, either Loves game has improved or Cavs fans have drastically changed their opinion. Confirmation bias I would guess.

mngopher35
08-25-2014, 01:11 PM
As for K Love, well, to be honest I haven't watched alot of his games but experts and his stats say that he is a super star talent. Knock stats all you want but if they were that easy to put up, wouldn't everyone be doing it?

Even delving into the advanced stats like win share, warp and the like he is up there with the very best in the league.

Does he have some deficiencies on defense? I guess, from wHat I hear. But experts again have said that he is average in that area.


Thought I'd confirm some of this for you. I think Love is average on defense imo and his deficiencies are brought up more than others for some reason. He can't be a help defender who gets blocks, it just won't happen. He does however use good position and knows how to get opponents into tougher positions (if you like catch it low maybe he forces you to catch it up high or on the wing etc (good lower body strength to push and also solid IQ). One of the most frustrating things on the wolves though is effort on that end (a lot of times complaining to the ref instead of getting back). I think this issue will solve itself a little in Cleveland with everything to play for. Getting a shotblocker or defensive C is definitely the best pairing next to him (andy v should be fine if healthy).

Offensively you are getting a star PF who stretches the floor and can pass better than most bigs. I think he will fit great with Blatt/Lebron and will be what you guys hoped for on that end at the least. My guess is you have seen enough of him on offense for me not to go on haha.

Kaner
08-25-2014, 01:51 PM
Cleveland messed up not demanding Dieng in the trade. Now they're gonna be dealing with finding a replacement for Varejao in a year or 2.

Confusious
08-25-2014, 01:59 PM
Cavs continue to make the worst decisions of any organization in pro sports

They draft is rigged to a point where its statistically impossible that they receiv 3 #1 picks in 5 years and they STILL mess it up.

Mark these words down:

K Love will not be healthy enough to make a multi year run at NBA titles. He also doesnt play any defense.

Cavs just traded a 2 way Wing Player with as much upside as any player in the League PLUS more for K love

What a disgraceful franchise. Lebron might consider leaving after he sees what a trainwreck this is....

WHos coaching them BTW? Some european guy??

OMG this is scuh a trainwreck. Good for Twolves though - they finally got something going imo
If it's as big of a train wreck as you suggest, "King of Sports", then maybe you'll be happy and won't need to post boring, uneducated rants on internet forums.

Confusious
08-25-2014, 02:05 PM
Go right ahead, I stand by my point. Wade was the only clear superstar that Lebron got to play with (at the beginning).

To be deemed a Superstar, you have to play on both sides of the ball, and be able to carry your team when the rest of the team is down.
Let me stop you right here. I'm sure the rest of your response was more concurrent than this, but I'm just going to respond to this because you have no idea how wrong you are. So, basically, a superstar can only be a two way forward? So, by definition, players like Luol Deng are superstars? Because he is a very good two-way forward. I think you need to re-evaluate what truly defines a superstar. Perhaps then you will realize that Kevin Love fits into that demographic, despite being rather weak on one side of the court.

JustinTime
08-25-2014, 02:21 PM
Let me stop you right here. I'm sure the rest of your response was more concurrent than this, but I'm just going to respond to this because you have no idea how wrong you are. So, basically, a superstar can only be a two way forward? So, by definition, players like Luol Deng are superstars? Because he is a very good two-way forward. I think you need to re-evaluate what truly defines a superstar. Perhaps then you will realize that Kevin Love fits into that demographic, despite being rather weak on one side of the court.

I think he means you have to be great on both sides. Players get called superstars way to easily these days. Just because you make the All-star team doesn't mean you're a superstar. I'd say the NBA only has two real superstars right now and that would be James and Durant. Duncan, Kobe, Wade and maybe Nowitzki were superstars in the past.

JustinTime
08-25-2014, 02:24 PM
I should add that Rose is a superstar if he can get back to his pre-injury level.

Confusious
08-25-2014, 02:26 PM
I think he means you have to be great on both sides. Players get called superstars way to easily these days. Just because you make the All-star team doesn't mean you're a superstar. I'd say the NBA only has two real superstars right now and that would be James and Durant. Duncan, Kobe, Wade and maybe Nowitzki were superstars in the past.
I'm not disagreeing with you. Particularly on the all-star team subject. However...


su·per·star
ˈso͞opərˌstär/Submit
noun
a high-profile and extremely successful performer or athlete.

Extremely successful. So, why does a superstar have to be limited to only two players in a 200+ player league? LeBron and KD are the only two CLEAR superstars, but there are other players out there that definitely fit the mold. To me, I would have never paid attention to Minnesota sports at all if not for Love. Who else has that kind of effect but a superstar? But then again Love has never been in the playoffs, so obviously he's 0/10, worst PF in the game.


I should add that Rose is a superstar if he can get back to his pre-injury level.
I don't want to say this with that Clippers dude hanging around, because boosting his ego would be a crime at this point, but Chris Paul is the bigger superstar of the two.

mngopher35
08-25-2014, 02:34 PM
I think he means you have to be great on both sides. Players get called superstars way to easily these days. Just because you make the All-star team doesn't mean you're a superstar. I'd say the NBA only has two real superstars right now and that would be James and Durant. Duncan, Kobe, Wade and maybe Nowitzki were superstars in the past.

You don't always have to be a great 2 way player though is the point. If you want an example, Magic. Want another? Dirk. They weren't great defensively but I bet all/most consider them superstars. Now being a 2 way player helps a ton no doubt, but not a requirement.

That said I'm not sure I put Klove in superstar group either (at least yet in his career). I agree at least james/durant are, not sure if I'd label more there but even so Love would be a few players down the list anyways. Some people have broader definitions though.

JustinTime
08-25-2014, 02:44 PM
I'm not disagreeing with you. Particularly on the all-star team subject. However...



Extremely successful. So, why does a superstar have to be limited to only two players in a 200+ player league? LeBron and KD are the only two CLEAR superstars, but there are other players out there that definitely fit the mold. To me, I would have never paid attention to Minnesota sports at all if not for Love. Who else has that kind of effect but a superstar? But then again Love has never been in the playoffs, so obviously he's 0/10, worst PF in the game.


I don't want to say this with that Clippers dude hanging around, because boosting his ego would be a crime at this point, but Chris Paul is the bigger superstar of the two.

What is successful though? I'd say being the top player on a recent championship winning team would be the best way to define a superstar. Even that though is bad because I have no doubt that a healthy Rose, or Durant could win on the right team. Chris Paul is definitely close but why hasn't he won anything the Clippers are stacked.

JustinTime
08-25-2014, 02:54 PM
You don't always have to be a great 2 way player though is the point. If you want an example, Magic. Want another? Dirk. They weren't great defensively but I bet all/most consider them superstars. Now being a 2 way player helps a ton no doubt, but not a requirement.

That said I'm not sure I put Klove in superstar group either (at least yet in his career). I agree at least james/durant are, not sure if I'd label more there but even so Love would be a few players down the list anyways. Some people have broader definitions though.

Dirk wasn't good coming in but he actually did turn out to be a pretty good defender by the time he won a title. I can't really comment on Magic I haven't seen much of him.

mngopher35
08-25-2014, 03:09 PM
Dirk wasn't good coming in but he actually did turn out to be a pretty good defender by the time he won a title. I can't really comment on Magic I haven't seen much of him.

He wasn't a great defender even if he did become average or slightly above. Klove isn't horrible on that end he is just average (or slightly below). If he improves a bit he could be above average which could happen since he is young (defense at this age at least similar to Dirk).

Either way those 2 prove that you don't need to be great at both ends. Love has some work to do to get there but superstars don't HAVE to be great defenders so he does have a chance.

WSU Tony
08-25-2014, 03:27 PM
If it's as big of a train wreck as you suggest, "King of Sports", then maybe you'll be happy and won't need to post boring, uneducated rants on internet forums.

It's just his opinion, easy now. You're very defensive of your new team.

I thought you were a Heat fan.

JustinTime
08-25-2014, 04:04 PM
He wasn't a great defender even if he did become average or slightly above. Klove isn't horrible on that end he is just average (or slightly below). If he improves a bit he could be above average which could happen since he is young (defense at this age at least similar to Dirk).

Either way those 2 prove that you don't need to be great at both ends. Love has some work to do to get there but superstars don't HAVE to be great defenders so he does have a chance.

I saw a stat awhile back that showed K love as being the worst rim protector in the league for a guy who had to defend 6 or more FGA.

KingstonHawke
08-25-2014, 04:06 PM
Cavs need to trade Waiters, Thompson, and Verajao to the Bucks for Sanders and Mayo. Add in Ray Allen and that would win them the championship.

Sanders is a big upgrade over Verajao, and in the role of sharpshooter Mayo is a HUGE upgrade over Waiters. Those two would just balance out that roster so much. And you could still go small/deep with Love and James at the 4 and 5, and Miller or Allen at the 3.

From the Bucks perspective this trade makes all the sense in the world. Waiters is younger, healthier, and cheaper than Mayo. He could really be something special of he ever gets to be the go to guard on a team. And Thompson and Verajao for Sanders is a steal too considering the year Sanders had.

Such a good deal they might even throw in a lottery protected pick. If Verajao could stay healthy they are pretty much a playoff team (considering the state of the east).

Knight, Marshall, Wolters
Waiters, Greek Freak
Parker, Middleton
Ilyasova, Henson
Thompson, Verajao, Pachulia

Thats an 8 seed at least.

mngopher35
08-25-2014, 04:23 PM
I saw a stat awhile back that showed K love as being the worst rim protector in the league for a guy who had to defend 6 or more FGA.

Yes, rim protection is definitely his weakness. When you have Klove at pf and Pek who is just as immobile and not a shotblocker you will have issues with rim protection (my guess is he was somewhat high on the list too?). Add in that our wings weren't always keeping in front of their man it might be why opponents were so good near the rim. Put him in between Lebron and a defensive C and it should be just fine (which they have done). Look at the stats his opponents put up against him generally though.

Either way the point of the argument you were making is that you need to be great on both ends to be a superstar. Not true.

WSU Tony
08-25-2014, 04:38 PM
I saw a stat awhile back that showed K love as being the worst rim protector in the league for a guy who had to defend 6 or more FGA.

Love (for right or for wrong) wants to keep himself in the game so he half *** puts his arms up but never fouls. He'll make it look like he's trying to alter a shot or block it but he defends kind of how high school girls are taught to defend. He never leaves his feet and he just stands with his arms strait up. I think the FG% on opponents he's defending is pretty high, too.

Confusious
08-25-2014, 05:15 PM
It's just his opinion, easy now. You're very defensive of your new team.

I thought you were a Heat fan.
Where on earth did that come from? Ahahahahaha.


Cavs need to trade Waiters, Thompson, and Verajao to the Bucks for Sanders and Mayo. Add in Ray Allen and that would win them the championship.

Sanders is a big upgrade over Verajao, and in the role of sharpshooter Mayo is a HUGE upgrade over Waiters. Those two would just balance out that roster so much. And you could still go small/deep with Love and James at the 4 and 5, and Miller or Allen at the 3.

From the Bucks perspective this trade makes all the sense in the world. Waiters is younger, healthier, and cheaper than Mayo. He could really be something special of he ever gets to be the go to guard on a team. And Thompson and Verajao for Sanders is a steal too considering the year Sanders had.

Such a good deal they might even throw in a lottery protected pick. If Verajao could stay healthy they are pretty much a playoff team (considering the state of the east).

Knight, Marshall, Wolters
Waiters, Greek Freak
Parker, Middleton
Ilyasova, Henson
Thompson, Verajao, Pachulia

Thats an 8 seed at least.
The Cavs don't "NEED" to make that trade. If anything, the Bucks NEED that trade to happen. I'm not giving up Waiters and Varejao for that inferior package. Don't get me wrong. I really like Mayo and I think he'd flourish on this team, but he is a far cry away from the player that he used to be.

And our weakest position is center. And you want us to get rid of our only good big and get a lesser PF/C back? What kind of gas fumes are you huffing?

"Sanders is a big upgrade over Verajao"

A lot of fumes, apparently.

Ridiculous proposal for CLE.

FlashBolt
08-25-2014, 06:03 PM
Cavs need to trade Waiters, Thompson, and Verajao to the Bucks for Sanders and Mayo. Add in Ray Allen and that would win them the championship.

Sanders is a big upgrade over Verajao, and in the role of sharpshooter Mayo is a HUGE upgrade over Waiters. Those two would just balance out that roster so much. And you could still go small/deep with Love and James at the 4 and 5, and Miller or Allen at the 3.

From the Bucks perspective this trade makes all the sense in the world. Waiters is younger, healthier, and cheaper than Mayo. He could really be something special of he ever gets to be the go to guard on a team. And Thompson and Verajao for Sanders is a steal too considering the year Sanders had.

Such a good deal they might even throw in a lottery protected pick. If Verajao could stay healthy they are pretty much a playoff team (considering the state of the east).

Knight, Marshall, Wolters
Waiters, Greek Freak
Parker, Middleton
Ilyasova, Henson
Thompson, Verajao, Pachulia

Thats an 8 seed at least.

That's a good trade for Bucks - not Cleveland. Sanders is not half the offensive player Varejao is. He's not the better rebounder, Anderson is a better passer, and Anderson is a better overall defender. Sanders is a good help defender but I don't think he's better than Varejao. The only way I see Cavs looking for this trade is if they are skeptical of Varejao's health. But seeing as how Sanders was out for 60 games last season, I wouldn't place too much value in Sanders as well. You're also forgetting that Varejao+Thompson are a much better package than Sanders. Thompson is an easy 10/10 player. He can rebound and provide valuable minutes in case Varejao is injured or tired. A lineup of Thompson/Love is definitely a viable option. Waiters for Mayo? I like Mayo but he's a very shaky player. He goes from being good to really good and then back to average. Sorry, but Waiters has more value than Mayo. Bad trade for Cleveland. Not to mention Varejao gets out of contract this season and there is no doubt in my mind that he wouldn't sign a vet minimum considering he's pretty much injury prone and his loyalty to LeBron/Cavs. No way LeBron gives up Varejao for Sanders or let's Thompson goes. 1) He stated on numerous occasions of his admiration of Varejao's game and 2) Thompson is represented by Rich Paul.

Oefarmy2005
08-26-2014, 12:25 AM
I saw a stat awhile back that showed K love as being the worst rim protector in the league for a guy who had to defend 6 or more FGA.
Who ever posted that stat originally was an moron. Tyson Chandler is like 6 spots below Love on that list. That stat doesn't count the opposing PF for example, its any person that scored at the rim while Love was near it. And Love is not a shot blocker, so he doesn't do much as a weak side defender when he is out of position and there is a guard that Martin let squeak by is coming at the rim with a full head of steam. Like I said, there are a few all defense first team players at the top of that list for worst opponent FG%.

Goose17
08-26-2014, 06:38 AM
Are people really trying to defend Loves defense?

WatWoudJordanDo
08-26-2014, 09:30 AM
Add Content

WSU Tony
08-26-2014, 10:00 AM
Are people really trying to defend Loves defense?

Do people really believe everything they hear about a players defense? I bet you 90% of the people ripping Love on his "horrific" defense haven't looked up a single stat - they're just perpetuating what they've heard.

Goose17
08-26-2014, 11:54 AM
Do people really believe everything they hear about a players defense? I bet you 90% of the people ripping Love on his "horrific" defense haven't looked up a single stat - they're just perpetuating what they've heard.

I bet 90% of them have seen him play though.

The stats don't exactly support his case for being a good defender, go see the on/off numbers.

WSU Tony
08-26-2014, 01:42 PM
I bet 90% of them have seen him play though.

The stats don't exactly support his case for being a good defender, go see the on/off numbers.

We're not talking about whether love is a "good" defender. We're simply disputing that people continually call him a horrible defender. Stats > Eye test

Goose17
08-26-2014, 01:52 PM
We're not talking about whether love is a "good" defender. We're simply disputing that people continually call him a horrible defender. Stats > Eye test

Stats + eye test > stats by themselves.

And he is a pretty horrible defender, although I've said it before and I'll say it again, I believe aside from being slow footed his lapses on defense are due to a mindset/attitude and lack of effort on that end as opposed to lacking the necessary skill set.

JustinTime
08-26-2014, 01:59 PM
Stats + eye test > stats by themselves.

And he is a pretty horrible defender, although I've said it before and I'll say it again, I believe aside from being slow footed his lapses on defense are due to a mindset/attitude and lack of effort on that end as opposed to lacking the necessary skill set.

Love is a god awful defender I've watched him enough to know and stats back it up. Can't believe Vegas has the Cavs as favorites i'd bet against that all day.

WSU Tony
08-26-2014, 02:29 PM
Stats + eye test > stats by themselves.

And he is a pretty horrible defender, although I've said it before and I'll say it again, I believe aside from being slow footed his lapses on defense are due to a mindset/attitude and lack of effort on that end as opposed to lacking the necessary skill set.

People who support the eye test don't know/understand statistics. I'm not saying Love is a good defender. Heck, I'm not even saying he's above average. Most stats show he's slightly below average. Perpetuate what you've heard and call him a horrible defender if you will - that's fine.


Love is a god awful defender I've watched him enough to know and stats back it up. Can't believe Vegas has the Cavs as favorites i'd bet against that all day.

You're so far in right field on any given day it's funny. Everyone is an expert on Loves defense except Timberwolves fans. And yes, your assessment of the NBA is far superior than the odds makers and statisticians in Vegas.

Goose17
08-26-2014, 02:39 PM
People who support the eye test don't know/understand statistics.


That's absolute ********. People who dismiss the eye test and rely solely on stats are as ignorant as people who dismiss stats and rely solely on the eye test.

Point me to the stat that shows you if a player has good footwork, if he recovers well when his man beats him, if he's slow on rotations or ball watches too much. Show me the stat that shows you how often a guy shoots the gap, how often he drifts too far from his man, how quick he can change direction, which side of the court he's better on defensively, how often he shows hard on a pick, how quickly he can read a play and react to it, how much he bothers shots (not blocks them, bothers them) etc etc.

If you don't believe you can get a read on a player just by watching them, you've obviously never played or coached a day in your life.

JustinTime
08-26-2014, 03:43 PM
People who support the eye test don't know/understand statistics. I'm not saying Love is a good defender. Heck, I'm not even saying he's above average. Most stats show he's slightly below average. Perpetuate what you've heard and call him a horrible defender if you will - that's fine.



You're so far in right field on any given day it's funny. Everyone is an expert on Loves defense except Timberwolves fans. And yes, your assessment of the NBA is far superior than the odds makers and statisticians in Vegas.

Watch and learn

nycericanguy
08-26-2014, 03:59 PM
Bob Finnan: #Cavs F Kevin Love on LeBron: "I was the first call that he made after he committed (with Cavs)." Twitter @BobCavsinsider -

Don't think Lebron would really want that out there that he immediately tried to bring in Love...lol.

WSU Tony
08-26-2014, 04:33 PM
That's absolute ********. People who dismiss the eye test and rely solely on stats are as ignorant as people who dismiss stats and rely solely on the eye test.

Point me to the stat that shows you if a player has good footwork, if he recovers well when his man beats him, if he's slow on rotations or ball watches too much. Show me the stat that shows you how often a guy shoots the gap, how often he drifts too far from his man, how quick he can change direction, which side of the court he's better on defensively, how often he shows hard on a pick, how quickly he can read a play and react to it, how much he bothers shots (not blocks them, bothers them) etc etc.

If you don't believe you can get a read on a player just by watching them, you've obviously never played or coached a day in your life.

If I watched 90% of the games I'd develop an eye test with a sample size. That's the problem with relying on an eye test instead of supplementing it along with statistics. I understand eye tests are developed though limited sample sizes. Statistics are developed over the whole sample size.

Do you feel most people are homers to their favorite team? The "eye test" skews peoples perceptions of players?

slashsnake
08-29-2014, 06:24 AM
I bet 90% of them have seen him play though.

The stats don't exactly support his case for being a good defender, go see the on/off numbers.

107 points allowed per 100 possesions while he is out there. 106.9 points per 100 possessions while he's off the court. So basically if he plays 70% of a teams minutes (34 a game), him being out there according to your stat means his team gives up about 5.4 points a season more than if he wasn't there.

Year before scoring went up by 2.4 points when he left the court per 100.


So... average?

SportsFanatic10
08-29-2014, 11:16 AM
Stats + eye test > stats by themselves.

And he is a pretty horrible defender, although I've said it before and I'll say it again, I believe aside from being slow footed his lapses on defense are due to a mindset/attitude and lack of effort on that end as opposed to lacking the necessary skill set.

i think part of it too is he's soo worried about being in position for a rebound that he fails to rotate on defense properly or play help d.

Trwood12
08-29-2014, 08:08 PM
People who support the eye test don't know/understand statistics. I'm not saying Love is a good defender. Heck, I'm not even saying he's above average. Most stats show he's slightly below average. Perpetuate what you've heard and call him a horrible defender if you will - that's fine.

That's BS. There are some aspects of a player's game that you simply cannot gather from stats. Especially on the defensive end. That being said, I do not think that Love is as bad a defender as people make him out to be.

Vee-Rex
08-29-2014, 11:46 PM
That's BS. There are some aspects of a player's game that you simply cannot gather from stats. Especially on the defensive end. That being said, I do not think that Love is as bad a defender as people make him out to be.

Dude has been full of that same BS for quite some time now. Good to see a Wolves fan call him out on it. ;)

Oefarmy2005
08-30-2014, 12:18 AM
107 points allowed per 100 possesions while he is out there. 106.9 points per 100 possessions while he's off the court. So basically if he plays 70% of a teams minutes (34 a game), him being out there according to your stat means his team gives up about 5.4 points a season more than if he wasn't there.

Year before scoring went up by 2.4 points when he left the court per 100.


So... average?
Not to mention that those points are being put up by bench players, so it would probably be +2.5pts/gm without Love if the starters were playing.

Oefarmy2005
08-30-2014, 12:23 AM
That's BS. There are some aspects of a player's game that you simply cannot gather from stats. Especially on the defensive end. That being said, I do not think that Love is as bad a defender as people make him out to be.
Good job feeding the trolls. The eye test by fans, who in all seriousness know nothing about the game or the plays being run, is worth less than a bag of peanuts. By my eye test, Love is about average and the stats easily confirm that.