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85BearsDefense
08-20-2014, 06:27 PM
Thoughts.

1. James Harden
2. Dwayne Wade
3. Monta Ellis
4. Jimmy Butler
5. Dion Waiters
6. Tyreke Evans
7. Victor Oladipo
8. Klay Thompson
9. Manu Ginobili
10. Lance Stephenson

No DeRozan or Mamba

ManRam
08-20-2014, 06:31 PM
Pretty wonky.

4-7 have no business being where they are based on what they've done.

XpLiCiTT
08-20-2014, 06:32 PM
Bledsoe should be on there, but I guess Dragic and him are both considered PGs?

JEDean89
08-20-2014, 06:33 PM
Wow, ESPN is such a joke, Dipo over Klay and Stephenson? Butler and Waiters 4/5 no Demar Derozan? No Beal?

Harden
Kobe
Wade
DeRozan
Thompson
Beal
Stephenson
Ellis
Afflalo
Ginobili

thats a way better list off the top of my head.

IgglesFanInCO
08-20-2014, 06:37 PM
No Derozan? holy crap

no Afflalo is a travesty too

dalton749
08-20-2014, 06:43 PM
lol espn hates toronto its nothing new

Pierzynski4Prez
08-20-2014, 06:44 PM
horrible list

chi-townlove1
08-20-2014, 06:46 PM
That Is purely pathetic ESPN. 4-7 don't deserve anything.

In my opinion 8,9,10 should go 4,5,6. And then throw derozan, and Afflalo in there at 7 and 8. And then butler and maybe oladipo at 9 and 10.

jerellh528
08-20-2014, 06:52 PM
Retry bad list. I wonder what they're basing this off of?

ManRam
08-20-2014, 06:57 PM
It's 2014-15 projections...so that explains a little. And it's Doolittle's, so it's also based on WARP. So it's gonna be unconventional. We'll see how it plays out, but if it were a list based on 2013-14 then yeah, pathetic.

Cal827
08-20-2014, 07:03 PM
LOL, I see that ESPN has its mouth on the Tip of pretty much everything that has Cleveland on their Jersey..

Come on, Waiters? He's actually done absolutely nothing that should get him recognition on this list.

:laugh: No Kobe/Derozan

BRB gonna go smoke some crack and e-mail ESPN a list of best Centers in the League, starting with Thabeet :facepalm:

Jamiecballer
08-20-2014, 07:03 PM
Change the thread title so it isn't so misleading. Otherwise its basically a troll thread.

smith&wesson
08-20-2014, 07:09 PM
Thoughts.

1. James Harden
2. Dwayne Wade
3. Monta Ellis
4. Jimmy Butler
5. Dion Waiters
6. Tyreke Evans
7. Victor Oladipo
8. Klay Thompson
9. Manu Ginobili
10. Lance Stephenson

No DeRozan or Mamba

I dont beleive that ESPN is THIS stupid... Link ?

ChiSox219
08-20-2014, 07:14 PM
I expect Butler, Oladipo, and Tyreke to live up to this list.

Arch Stanton
08-20-2014, 07:15 PM
I'm a big Waiters fan and I'm surprised he's ranked that high. But like someone already mentioned it's a projection and probably should wait to see how it plays out.

AIRMAR72
08-20-2014, 07:15 PM
ESPN..Skip Wasteless probably fax that in I think list is fair

Greedy22
08-20-2014, 07:19 PM
Lol @ Wade being top 2, WOW

ManRam
08-20-2014, 07:30 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11374705/nba-projecting-top-10-shooting-guards-warp-2014-15


The title should be "WARP-based ranking of NBA's top shooting guards for the 2014-15 season". This isn't a consensus of ESPN "experts" or "analysts". It's a projection system.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2014, 07:36 PM
I have been reading these, they obviously leave out anyone who missed most/all of last season. Cause Kobe could have the biggest drop in production ever and be in the middle of this list the position is so bad now.

ThuglifeJ
08-20-2014, 07:41 PM
Bad.

WaDe03
08-20-2014, 07:45 PM
Wade will be the best.

Sadds The Gr8
08-20-2014, 08:11 PM
I should print out this list and wipe my arse with it.

THE MTL
08-20-2014, 08:17 PM
This list has to be a joke.

PurpleLynch
08-20-2014, 08:26 PM
Ahaha...What a freaking joke.

THE MTL
08-20-2014, 08:27 PM
Thoughts.

1. James Harden
2. Dwayne Wade
3. Monta Ellis
4. Jimmy Butler
5. Dion Waiters
6. Tyreke Evans
7. Victor Oladipo
8. Klay Thompson
9. Manu Ginobili
10. Lance Stephenson

No DeRozan or Mamba

Minus 4 5 and 6 and replace with Derozan, Beal, and Kobe

GodsSon
08-20-2014, 08:35 PM
DeRozan should be #2 on this list.

dalton749
08-20-2014, 09:01 PM
DeRozan should be #2 on this list.

lol if anyone just saw the usa game, that was some amazing play by a sg who isnt even top 15 at his position

he will be a super star next year with harden like numbers

IversonIsKrazy
08-20-2014, 09:05 PM
LOL! This list is absolutely horrible. Their east standings pick was solid tho. What were their PG and SF rankings?

beasted86
08-20-2014, 09:15 PM
No Kobe Bryant, no Joe Johnson, no Demar Derozan, no Bradley Beal, no Eric Bledsoe.

Jimmy ****ing Butler is the #4 SG in the NBA?

I can't take this seriously without a link. Maybe the OP is trolling?

5ass
08-20-2014, 09:20 PM
Harden
Beal
Wade
Kobe
Derozen
Bledsoe
Oladipo
Afflalo
Thompson
Stephenson
These are my top 10 next season.

85BearsDefense
08-20-2014, 09:32 PM
Change the thread title so it isn't so misleading. Otherwise its basically a troll thread.

How was I trolling? Please inform me. I've never trolled in the NBA forum.

85BearsDefense
08-20-2014, 09:33 PM
No Kobe Bryant, no Joe Johnson, no Demar Derozan, no Bradley Beal, no Eric Bledsoe.

Jimmy ****ing Butler is the #4 SG in the NBA?

I can't take this seriously without a link. Maybe the OP is trolling?

I'm not trolling... I promise

Arch Stanton
08-20-2014, 09:43 PM
The link has already been posted by another poster. Here it is again: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11374705/nba-projecting-top-10-shooting-guards-warp-2014-15

B'sCeltsPatsSox
08-20-2014, 09:47 PM
4-7 is pretty bad and Joe Johnson is slowly becoming one of the most underrated players in the league.

Edit: Just saw that it was a WARP projected list for next season.

Chronz
08-20-2014, 11:48 PM
LOL, I see that ESPN has its mouth on the Tip of pretty much everything that has Cleveland on their Jersey..

Come on, Waiters? He's actually done absolutely nothing that should get him recognition on this list.

:laugh: No Kobe/Derozan

BRB gonna go smoke some crack and e-mail ESPN a list of best Centers in the League, starting with Thabeet :facepalm:

Of all the misguided insults, this was the funniest

Actually started chuckling

Really tho can people stop saying it's espn like instead of doolittle.

It's also based on warp projections not actuality

bucketss
08-20-2014, 11:53 PM
Lol @ Wade being top 2, WOW

only thing they got right

Raps18-19 Champ
08-20-2014, 11:57 PM
Lol what a stupid thread. They don't think those are the best SG's right now. They are predicting who they think will be the best SG's after the season.

MrfadeawayJB
08-21-2014, 12:05 AM
Sg is the weakest position in the NBA

Master Mind
08-21-2014, 12:21 AM
Sg is the weakest position in the NBA

I mean there aren't many true centers in the league but ok :shrug:

beasted86
08-21-2014, 12:21 AM
Lol what a stupid thread. They don't think those are the best SG's right now. They are predicting who they think will be the best SG's after the season.

Based on what? I don't have insider, nor do I know what WARP is. Regardless, there is no system or mathematical formula that should be predicting Jimmy Butler as the 4th best SG in the NBA. Whatever machine spit out this result is broken.

chi-townlove1
08-21-2014, 01:07 AM
Lol what a stupid thread. They don't think those are the best SG's right now. They are predicting who they think will be the best SG's after the season.

Based on what? I don't have insider, nor do I know what WARP is. Regardless, there is no system or mathematical formula that should be predicting Jimmy Butler as the 4th best SG in the NBA. Whatever machine spit out this result is broken.


I previously stated I don't think he's fourth, but honestly what's all the hatred for. Because of his incredible defense and somewhat ability to put the ball on the floor, I wouldn't pick more than 6 shooting guards over him. I think you are underestimating how good of a defender he truly is, with a still undeveloped offensive game.

Confusious
08-21-2014, 01:41 AM
Tyreke Evans should not be on a "top 10 SG" list at ALL. Good god that list is bad.

Admiralblocks
08-21-2014, 02:28 AM
4-7 shouldn't be there at all.

They think 6'5 DaRozen is a SF... He's a SG really. Listed at 6'7, but I've seen him play plenty and know he's actually 6'5. You can be a SF at 6'5 but you better be real athletic and very strong. I don't think he's that strong.

Goose17
08-21-2014, 07:06 AM
Terrible list.

dalton749
08-21-2014, 07:10 AM
4-7 shouldn't be there at all.

They think 6'5 DaRozen is a SF... He's a SG really. Listed at 6'7, but I've seen him play plenty and know he's actually 6'5. You can be a SF at 6'5 but you better be real athletic and very strong. I don't think he's that strong.

He's 6'7, it's derozan, and they have him at sg, just at 16th which though embarassing, go away.

mightybosstone
08-21-2014, 09:02 AM
This is obviously an atrocious list, but OP didn't do this thread any favors by not mentioning that this was based on 2014-15 WARP projections. That being said, this list is a prime example of why you should never base your opinion of players on a single statistic. For example, DeRozan may have only posted a 5.4 WARP last season, but his 18.4 PER and .141 WS/48 were both well above league average and would have easily qualified him as a top 10 SG.

Also, I have no idea how this guy's projection system works. But when you have Dion Waiters as the fifth best SG in the entire league, you have to start asking yourself what the hell is wrong with your system.

mightybosstone
08-21-2014, 09:03 AM
For anyone interested in seeing this guy's other lists so far, he's also done PG and SF:

1. Chris Paul
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Stephen Curry
4. John Wall
5. Kyrie Irving
6. Kyle Lowry
7. Damian Lillard
8. Mike Conley
9. Ricky Rubio
10. Ty Lawson

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11369866/nba-projecting-top-10-point-guards-warp-2014-15

1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Gordon Hayward
5. Nicolas Batum
6. Giannis Antetokounmpo
7. Andre Iguodala
8. Kawhi Leonard
9. Chandler Parsons
10. Rudy Gay

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11380516/nba-projecting-top-10-small-forwards-warp-2014-15

Justin_G_Bryan
08-21-2014, 09:53 AM
1. Lance Stephsenson
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Klay Thompson
4. Bradley Beal
5. James Harden
6. Manu Ginobili
7. Dwyane wade
8. DeMar DeRozan
9. Monta Ellis
10. Jimmy Butler

chi-townlove1
08-21-2014, 09:56 AM
1. Lance Stephsenson
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Klay Thompson
4. Bradley Beal
5. James Harden
6. Manu Ginobili
7. Dwyane wade
8. DeMar DeRozan
9. Monta Ellis
10. Jimmy Butler

I can't tell if your kidding

cdnsportsfan
08-21-2014, 03:15 PM
Based on the three projection lists that have now been posted in this thread - for point guards, shooting guards and small forwards - it's clear these just aren't worth the time or effort to get worked up over.

mightybosstone
08-21-2014, 03:24 PM
1. Lance Stephsenson
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Klay Thompson
4. Bradley Beal
5. James Harden
6. Manu Ginobili
7. Dwyane wade
8. DeMar DeRozan
9. Monta Ellis
10. Jimmy Butler
Seems legit. :laugh:

Pierzynski4Prez
08-21-2014, 03:46 PM
Based on the three projection lists that have now been posted in this thread - for point guards, shooting guards and small forwards - it's clear these just aren't worth the time or effort to get worked up over.

This.

MonroeFAN
08-21-2014, 03:47 PM
One of the worst lists of anything I've seen.

mjt20mik
08-21-2014, 03:52 PM
Pretty sad that ESPN is making its insider clients pay to read such terrible content. Like really, what is this nonsense.

WadeKobe
08-21-2014, 06:59 PM
This is obviously an atrocious list, but OP didn't do this thread any favors by not mentioning that this was based on 2014-15 WARP projections. That being said, this list is a prime example of why you should never base your opinion of players on a single statistic. For example, DeRozan may have only posted a 5.4 WARP last season, but his 18.4 PER and .141 WS/48 were both well above league average and would have easily qualified him as a top 10 SG.

Also, I have no idea how this guy's projection system works. But when you have Dion Waiters as the fifth best SG in the entire league, you have to start asking yourself what the hell is wrong with your system.

Do you know the difference in how WARP and the other two are calculated?

I hate when people just say "stat x says () but stats y and z say ()"

Unless we know how those stats are calculated, the theory and methodologies behind them... It does us no good to "look at multiple statistics".

Not to mention, WARP is a cumulative statistic and you compared it to rate per-minute statistics... So apples to oranges.

Come on. This is stats 101. This is why I hate the NBA forum. It seems no one actually understands NBA statistics qua stats.

WadeKobe
08-21-2014, 07:01 PM
IMO, for what it is worth...

Harden
Stephenson
Butler

Who cares?

albertajaysfan
08-21-2014, 07:08 PM
Even as a projection for next season I don't agree with the list.

Some seriously questionable names on there.

To all non Raptor fans thanks for the Derozan love. Great to see him getting some recognition, kid works damn hard at improving his game.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-21-2014, 08:16 PM
Based on what? I don't have insider, nor do I know what WARP is. Regardless, there is no system or mathematical formula that should be predicting Jimmy Butler as the 4th best SG in the NBA. Whatever machine spit out this result is broken.

Based on WARP. Are you not paying attention?

mightybosstone
08-21-2014, 08:40 PM
Do you know the difference in how WARP and the other two are calculated?

I hate when people just say "stat x says () but stats y and z say ()"

Unless we know how those stats are calculated, the theory and methodologies behind them... It does us no good to "look at multiple statistics".

Not to mention, WARP is a cumulative statistic and you compared it to rate per-minute statistics... So apples to oranges.

Come on. This is stats 101. This is why I hate the NBA forum. It seems no one actually understands NBA statistics qua stats.

I have a very basic idea of what types of things are used to determine each statistic and what each statistic represents, but I (like you) am not a mathematician. WARP is a cumulative statistic, but so are win shares. And just because I used WS/48 doesn't mean it's necessarily an apples to oranges comparison. A player with a high WS/48 who plays a lot of minutes in a lot of games will naturally boast a high WS. Common sense. And DeRozan was 20th in the league last season in total WS.

The reason it DOES do us good to look at multiple statistics is that it gives us a better, more balanced scope of a player's value. Personally, I've always liked WS a little more than most statistics, because it seems to do a better job of evaluating a player's defensive value while considering a player's impact on the overall team. But I can see the benefits to PER and WARP as well.

I just think that if you're looking at the entire scope of a player's value, including basic and advanced statistics, perceived improvement, injury concerns, defensive prowess, chemistry, clutch performance, etc. then you're going to have a far more well-rounded view of that player. A person who considered all factors could not possibly put Dion Waiters at fifth on a list of top SGs and could not leave DeRozan off the list entirely.