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ChiFanMem
08-16-2014, 11:16 AM
I remember an old article saying that the Sixers planned on taking Kobe first overall in the 96 draft until Iverson's last workout with them.

If they wound up doing it, and for comparisons' sake if Iverson somehow fell to the Hornets and was traded to the Lakers in the same deal, how do their careers turn out?

Manimal
08-16-2014, 11:41 AM
Wasn't Iverson the consensus #1 coming out of college? I remember seeing some footage of the Sixers GM at the time jumping for joy winning the Iverson lottery.

joeyc77
08-16-2014, 11:41 AM
Sixers were not considering Kobe #1. Kobe was not even a projected top ten pick back then. No high school guards had ever been drafted prior to then. The Sixers were only considering Stephon Maybury as an alternative. Remember the Sixers had Stackhouse do he was their SG.

As for the hypothetical...

Iverson would probably win a championship or two with Shaq.

Kobe is difficult to say. The team was built around Iverson so theirs multiple possibilities. One such possibility is that the Sixers would probably lose a few more games in 1997 meaning they could have received the #1 pick in the 1998 draft. Kobe and Duncan... What could have been.

jaydubb
08-16-2014, 11:54 AM
I want to see the article your referring to OP

mightybosstone
08-16-2014, 12:01 PM
I'll probably catch hell for this, but I think you can make an argument that if Kobe had ended up in Philly and Iverson in LA that the Iverson/Shaq duo would have won more titles than the Kobe/Shaq duo. That's not to say that I think Iverson was remotely as good of a player in his career as Kobe. Far from it. But Iverson took less time to develop into an elite scorer than Kobe did. And although Iverson also had a massive ego, he was more of a fun-loving guy like Shaq. I think those guy would have gotten along better and Shaq might have stayed in LA for longer.

As for what Kobe's career would have been like in Philly, I have no idea. I do think those 76er teams with Kobe/Mutombo would have been hard to stop in the East in the early 2000s and they could have given an Iverson/Shaq duo a run for their money. But I still don't think that team is better than that Pistons squad, and there are a lot of other variables on that team that would have been different.

Hulk6
08-16-2014, 12:19 PM
I'll probably catch hell for this, but I think you can make an argument that if Kobe had ended up in Philly and Iverson in LA that the Iverson/Shaq duo would have won more titles than the Kobe/Shaq duo. That's not to say that I think Iverson was remotely as good of a player in his career as Kobe. Far from it. But Iverson took less time to develop into an elite scorer than Kobe did. And although Iverson also had a massive ego, he was more of a fun-loving guy like Shaq. I think those guy would have gotten along better and Shaq might have stayed in LA for longer.

As for what Kobe's career would have been like in Philly, I have no idea. I do think those 76er teams with Kobe/Mutombo would have been hard to stop in the East in the early 2000s and they could have given an Iverson/Shaq duo a run for their money. But I still don't think that team is better than that Pistons squad, and there are a lot of other variables on that team that would have been different.

yeah because u guys used to hangout all the time

XpLiCiTT
08-16-2014, 12:26 PM
yeah because u guys used to hangout all the time

lol... I do know Shaq&AI were/are very good friends though.

KnicksorBust
08-16-2014, 12:50 PM
yeah because u guys used to hangout all the time

lol... I do know Shaq&AI were/are very good friends though.

Yeah because you 3 used to hangout all the time

XpLiCiTT
08-16-2014, 12:53 PM
Yeah because you 3 used to hangout all the time

lol

mightybosstone
08-16-2014, 01:17 PM
yeah because u guys used to hangout all the time

I'm just basing my opinion on interviews and public perception. I just think Iverson and Shaq would have gotten along better and would have made for a better pairing in terms of chemistry.

Jamiecballer
08-16-2014, 01:31 PM
I'll probably catch hell for this, but I think you can make an argument that if Kobe had ended up in Philly and Iverson in LA that the Iverson/Shaq duo would have won more titles than the Kobe/Shaq duo. That's not to say that I think Iverson was remotely as good of a player in his career as Kobe. Far from it. But Iverson took less time to develop into an elite scorer than Kobe did. And although Iverson also had a massive ego, he was more of a fun-loving guy like Shaq. I think those guy would have gotten along better and Shaq might have stayed in LA for longer.

As for what Kobe's career would have been like in Philly, I have no idea. I do think those 76er teams with Kobe/Mutombo would have been hard to stop in the East in the early 2000s and they could have given an Iverson/Shaq duo a run for their money. But I still don't think that team is better than that Pistons squad, and there are a lot of other variables on that team that would have been different.
I agree with you. Iverson and Shaq would have been as good if not better. What Shaq would have lost in post up opportunities he would have made up for with putbacks haha

Chavacano
08-16-2014, 06:23 PM
Both won't attend practices though...

Dade County
08-16-2014, 07:43 PM
I remember an old article saying that the Sixers planned on taking Kobe first overall in the 96 draft until Iverson's last workout with them.

If they wound up doing it, and for comparisons' sake if Iverson somehow fell to the Hornets and was traded to the Lakers in the same deal, how do their careers turn out?

Iverson would have 3 to 5 rings, & Kobe wouldn't have any. The Lakers organization was a big part of Kobe getting those two rings without Shaq (Gasol trade, that would not have happen for any other team).


Any of these guys in the early 2000's would have rings (or won rings), if they played with prime Shaq.... Tmac, Vince carter, Riggie Miller, Chris Webber, Dirk, Jason Kid, Ray Allen, Manu Ginobili.

And players of today... Wade, Lbj, Curry, Cp3, KD, WestBrook, T Parker, Melo...etc

Alayla
08-16-2014, 08:15 PM
I remember an old article saying that the Sixers planned on taking Kobe first overall in the 96 draft until Iverson's last workout with them.

If they wound up doing it, and for comparisons' sake if Iverson somehow fell to the Hornets and was traded to the Lakers in the same deal, how do their careers turn out?

Is it from the Bleacher Report because that sounds realllyyyyyyyyy really wrong AI was Philly's Guy from the word go and Kobe was not a projected top 10 guy The SG postion was taken by Stackhouse as well wtf? xD

Alayla
08-16-2014, 08:16 PM
Iverson would have 3 to 5 rings, & Kobe wouldn't have any. The Lakers organization was a big part of Kobe getting those two rings without Shaq (Gasol trade, that would not have happen for any other team).


Any of these guys in the early 2000's would have rings (or won rings), if they played with prime Shaq.... Tmac, Vince carter, Riggie Miller, Chris Webber, Dirk, Jason Kid, Ray Allen, Manu Ginobili.

And players of today... Wade, Lbj, Curry, Cp3, KD, WestBrook, T Parker, Melo...etc

thats how i feel too and alot of people would be much higher on Iverson because of rings or whatever xD But i still think Kobe would be a highly respected player.

PowerHouse
08-16-2014, 09:22 PM
I'll probably catch hell for this, but I think you can make an argument that if Kobe had ended up in Philly and Iverson in LA that the Iverson/Shaq duo would have won more titles than the Kobe/Shaq duo. That's not to say that I think Iverson was remotely as good of a player in his career as Kobe. Far from it. But Iverson took less time to develop into an elite scorer than Kobe did. And although Iverson also had a massive ego, he was more of a fun-loving guy like Shaq. I think those guy would have gotten along better and Shaq might have stayed in LA for longer.



For one thing Iverson never became an elite or efficient scorer just an elite shot-chucker, the metrics tell the tale there. And there is no way Iverson would have lasted longer than 1 year playing for Phil Jackson before he (or Phil) would have demanded a trade. The triangle offense is highly dependent on passing, ball movement and dumping the ball down to the post. All are things that dont work for Iverson's game. I think Iverson ended up in the perfect system in Philly for him to have the success that he was able to have.

NBA_Starter
08-16-2014, 10:16 PM
The Hornets would have never left if we had either of those players.

sixer04fan
08-17-2014, 03:10 AM
Oh my god... The thought of AI and Shaq playing together through their careers... Would've been an amazing duo

SMH!
08-17-2014, 03:43 AM
Oh my god... The thought of AI and Shaq playing together through their careers... Would've been an amazing duo

seriously

GREATNESS ONE
08-17-2014, 03:48 AM
AI & Shaq vs Kobe & Duncan

XpLiCiTT
08-17-2014, 01:01 PM
For one thing Iverson never became an elite or efficient scorer just an elite shot-chucker

Typical PSD moron

Bruno
08-17-2014, 02:27 PM
AI & Shaq vs Kobe & Duncan

thats easy.

JordansBulls
08-17-2014, 03:30 PM
Kobe would have left for Minnesota to play with KG.

PowerHouse
08-17-2014, 04:03 PM
Typical PSD moron

Typical homer/Iverson slurper idiot who has absolutely no case to debate with so he can only go the kindergarten route and settle for name calling. This guy will go really far in life.

LakersEaglesLA
08-17-2014, 08:23 PM
Iverson would have 3 to 5 rings, & Kobe wouldn't have any. The Lakers organization was a big part of Kobe getting those two rings without Shaq (Gasol trade, that would not have happen for any other team).


Any of these guys in the early 2000's would have rings (or won rings), if they played with prime Shaq.... Tmac, Vince carter, Riggie Miller, Chris Webber, Dirk, Jason Kid, Ray Allen, Manu Ginobili.

And players of today... Wade, Lbj, Curry, Cp3, KD, WestBrook, T Parker, Melo...etc
Why would Gasol trade have not happened for any other team? Gasol never won a playoff game until he played with Kobe. Why are akers trades always a problem. We gave Memphis a 1st round pick, a large expiring contract and a young future All-Star.(Mark Gasol). I didn't hear you complaining when Stern Vetoed Chris Paul trade because of Dan Gilberts crying over Lakers being too good. And then for good measure sending Paul to the other team in our building.. Now Gilbert is sending a rookie to the Wolves for Kevin Love oh but it's ok because it's not the Lakers. Stern pissed on Dr Buss before he died. The Lakers have carried this league for decades and that's howe Stern repaid them, im so glad he's gone.. Kobe earned all 5 of his rings Shaq had superstars in Orlando and couldn't win until he paired with Kobe. I like Iverson very much but he ain't no Kobe Bryant. It's ridiculous have some people will try any angle to minimize the Great Kobe Bryant. But just know this "Kobe ain't done yet".

Dade County
08-17-2014, 08:47 PM
Why would Gasol trade have not happened for any other team? Gasol never won a playoff game until he played with Kobe. Why are akers trades always a problem. We gave Memphis a 1st round pick, a large expiring contract and a young future All-Star.(Mark Gasol). I didn't hear you complaining when Stern Vetoed Chris Paul trade because of Dan Gilberts crying over Lakers being too good. And then for good measure sending Paul to the other team in our building..

Just because you are not all seeing, doesn't mean I didn't have a problem with cp3 not going to L.A. The league forever changed NBA history with that fail move.

But no one is going to care, because it helped out the Clippers a failed franchise, until they got Paul.

And the Gasol trade was unfair, no one knew that his little brother was going to be that good in the future. I can go one and one, but this topic has been discussed numerous times on this forum.



Now Gilbert is sending a rookie to the Wolves for Kevin Love oh but it's ok because it's not the Lakers. Stern pissed on Dr Buss before he died. The Lakers have carried this league for decades and that's howe Stern repaid them, im so glad he's gone..

If you didn't know... Lbj & the league worked together on this K Love move. Maybe even starting back 2yrs ago.



Kobe earned all 5 of his rings Shaq had superstars in Orlando and couldn't win until he paired with Kobe.

No... Those are Shaq rings, you just have to deal with it.

You Laker fans try soooo hard to place Kobe ahead of Shaq, it's never going to happen.



I like Iverson very much but he ain't no Kobe Bryant. It's ridiculous have some people will try any angle to minimize the Great Kobe Bryant. But just know this "Kobe ain't done yet".

Kobe is a very good player, I don't think anyone is diminishing him... People are just maybe trying to put him is his rightful place, but some Laker fans elevate him so damn high, that it starts thread wars to even discuss it.

I believe many player could have won those 3 rings with Shaq, thats not a knock on Kobe... Shaq was that damn great. So what!?!

kingkenny01
08-17-2014, 09:34 PM
its kinda funny that in everyone hypothetical scenario is Iverson going to the lakers, lets say kobe went one why wouldn't iverson go 2

XpLiCiTT
08-17-2014, 10:17 PM
Typical homer/Iverson slurper idiot who has absolutely no case to debate with so he can only go the kindergarten route and settle for name calling. This guy will go really far in life.

Because I'm sick of reading idiotic comments like those. Iverson wasn't an elite scorer, just a "shot-chucker"..you must not have watched him play. The team had zero offense other than him, ZERO. He's one of the best scorers in NBA history, yet to you "that's not elite". Yes I agree he was obviously a gunner, but to say he wasn't an elite scorer is senseless.

PowerHouse
08-17-2014, 10:20 PM
No... Those are Shaq rings, you just have to deal with it.

You Laker fans try soooo hard to place Kobe ahead of Shaq, it's never going to happen.



I love how you call them "Shaq rings" which implies the complete discrediting of everyone else on the roster. Nobody else had a hand in it. According to your logic Wade has zero rings. '06 was a Shaq ring and the other 2 Lebron rings.

PowerHouse
08-17-2014, 10:25 PM
Because I'm sick of reading idiotic comments like those. Iverson wasn't an elite scorer, just a "shot-chucker"..you must not have watched him play. The team had zero offense other than him, ZERO. He's one of the best scorers in NBA history, yet to you "that's not elite". Yes I agree he was obviously a gunner, but to say he wasn't an elite scorer is senseless.

He was a good scorer and did things which were impressive for his size, I'll give you that. But elite is an extremely strong term which suggests a level of efficiency and dominance to the likes of Jordan, Bird, Shaq, J West, Lebron, Dr. J, etc

XpLiCiTT
08-17-2014, 10:30 PM
He was a good scorer and did things which were impressive for his size, I'll give you that. But elite is an extremely strong term which suggests a level of efficiency and dominance to the likes of Jordan, Bird, Shaq, J West, Lebron, Dr. J, etc

I can understand an outsiders point of view of looking at efficiency stats and making that claim. Basketball is more than what it says on a piece of paper. I never said he was as efficient as those guys, but theres a lot more that goes into his efficiency than you would think.

Dade County
08-17-2014, 10:56 PM
I love how you call them "Shaq rings" which implies the complete discrediting of everyone else on the roster. Nobody else had a hand in it.

Of course Shaq had help, I am just stating that he was the Alpha of the team. Kobe & others did their thing.

But any of the star sg of the early 2k's could of done the same thing, thats all. Thats not a knock on Kobe, the man is a baller.




According to your logic Wade has zero rings. '06 was a Shaq ring and the other 2 Lebron rings.

:laugh: ... Lol, 06 is Wade's ring. There is no denying it.

And Lbj cost Wade a ring & Finals Mvp, but people never bring that up; all they talk about is what happened in the Spurs series.

GREATNESS ONE
08-17-2014, 11:08 PM
^ don't show your age an be so bias. Hard to agree with you (and I do somewhat) but to toss Kobe aside like he was nothing on those 3 title runs is hilarious and shows who ACTUALLY watched those games and who didn't. But... It is PSD and yea know, half these guys are barely old enough to drink.

GREATNESS ONE
08-17-2014, 11:10 PM
Re-watch those title runs and witness Kobe's dominance and growth into a premier player.

Shaq is definitely (prime Shaq) one of a kind but NO WAY is he winning three in a row without a will determined non stop hungry young SG named Kobe "Vino" Bryant.

Dade County
08-17-2014, 11:29 PM
^ don't show your age an be so bias. Hard to agree with you (and I do somewhat) but to toss Kobe aside like he was nothing on those 3 title runs is hilarious and shows who ACTUALLY watched those games and who didn't. But... It is PSD and yea know, half these guys are barely old enough to drink.


Re-watch those title runs and witness Kobe's dominance and growth into a premier player.

Shaq is definitely (prime Shaq) one of a kind but NO WAY is he winning three in a row without a will determined non stop hungry young SG named Kobe "Vino" Bryant.

lol, yeah I'm 31...

I remember those games/series... Like I stated Kobe is a baller, but for you to think that other star sg's wouldn't have stepped up to the challenge and balled too.

Lakers opponents, Pacers, 76'ers & Nets... Yeah, Ai would have had 3 rings too. Getting pass the west was there only challenge.

GREATNESS ONE
08-18-2014, 12:57 AM
LOL you named the finals opponent(s). I'm 32. Watched every game (Lakers) religiously since I was 9 years old. Die hard papi. Kobe is a monster and yes maybe few other SG could prevail in that situation but to take out, like he was nothing in those runs is amusing.


Kobe was a BEAST in those runs brother. Few other players (all time) could have done what he did.

Dade County
08-18-2014, 01:07 AM
LOL you named the finals opponent(s). I'm 32. Watched every game (Lakers) religiously since I was 9 years old. Die hard papi. Kobe is a monster and yes maybe few other SG could prevail in that situation but to take out, like he was nothing in those runs is amusing.


Kobe was a BEAST in those runs brother. Few other players (all time) could have done what he did.

Do you give more credit to Kobe beating those eastern conference teams or getting out the west (in 1yr the refs did help the Lakers out though, big time).

And I don't know how much times I have to say this; Kobe was a good player, an all time player.

It's just that other players put in the same position would have done the same or better (when I say better, I mean maybe getting more rings, because that player personality would have meshed with Shaq's better.)

PowerHouse
08-18-2014, 01:33 AM
It's just that other players put in the same position would have done the same or better (when I say better, I mean maybe getting more rings, because that player personality would have meshed with Shaq's better.)
You keep going on about how other star guards would have done the same thing playing with a prime Shaq. Well then why didnt it happen in Orlando? Penny was a top 2-3 SG in the mid-90s. Believe it or not not every star player can match the things Kobe did.

Dade County
08-18-2014, 01:43 AM
You keep going on about how other star guards would have done the same thing playing with a prime Shaq. Well then why didnt it happen in Orlando? Penny was a top 2-3 SG in the mid-90s. Believe it or not not every star player can match the things Kobe did.

Coaching... System... The Dream

You are not factoring those players in L.A with Phil.

PowerHouse
08-18-2014, 02:16 AM
Coaching... System... The Dream

You are not factoring those players in L.A with Phil.

Earlier you brought up AI being able to win the same 3 titles with Shaq instead of Kobe. You are not factoring in Phil Jackson's offensive system. No way Iverson would have been able to succeed with a triangle offense that is highly dependent on passing, ball movement and getting the ball into the post. All of these are things that dont work for Iverson's game. AI would have most likely demanded a trade to a system better suited for him, like Philly.

LakersEaglesLA
08-18-2014, 03:19 AM
lol, yeah I'm 31...

I remember those games/series... Like I stated Kobe is a baller, but for you to think that other star sg's wouldn't have stepped up to the challenge and balled too.

Lakers opponents, Pacers, 76'ers & Nets... Yeah, Ai would have had 3 rings too. Getting pass the west was there only challenge.

Getting past the west was the biggest challenge is True, The Spurs, Blazers, Kings, and Suns were Great teams and Kobe was as dominant as Shaq, a lot of those games came down to the final quarter in which Shaq wasnt effective because of his free throw shooting. Kobe bailed us out and closed those games. Go to youtube and actually watch the games because you have no evidence to your arguement.. If its so easy to replace players then why dont I just say Kobe could replace Jordan on the 90s Bulls teams and won 6 titles. Im sure Bulls fans would say thats disrespectful just like its disrespectful to say that Iverson would have won 3 titles if he replaced Kobe on Lakers

Dade County
08-18-2014, 09:05 AM
Earlier you brought up AI being able to win the same 3 titles with Shaq instead of Kobe. You are not factoring in Phil Jackson's offensive system. No way Iverson would have been able to succeed with a triangle offense that is highly dependent on passing, ball movement and getting the ball into the post. All of these are things that dont work for Iverson's game. AI would have most likely demanded a trade to a system better suited for him, like Philly.


76ers didn't have good scoring options around Ai. I believe Iverson morphed into the type of player we saw because of the lack of playmakers around him.

Who's to say that, if Ai had a different coach from the start, like Phil he wouldn't have been more system friendly?

There is no evidence saying that Ai would have worked in Phil system, but you can't just assume that he would be the same ball dominate player; you have to factor in that once so many years passed by of Ai playing the style of ball, that it would be hard for anyone just to change.




Getting past the west was the biggest challenge is True, The Spurs, Blazers, Kings, and Suns were Great teams and Kobe was as dominant as Shaq, a lot of those games came down to the final quarter in which Shaq wasnt effective because of his free throw shooting. Kobe bailed us out and closed those games. Go to youtube and actually watch the games because you have no evidence to your arguement..

The only evidence I don't have, is a time machine or history on my side. How could I, I can't wave my arms and put another player in the spot of Kobe. lol

And of course Shaq couldn't really be a factor in the last minutes of a game, because of his free throw shooting.




If its so easy to replace players then why dont I just say Kobe could replace Jordan on the 90s Bulls teams and won 6 titles. Im sure Bulls fans would say thats disrespectful just like its disrespectful to say that Iverson would have won 3 titles if he replaced Kobe on Lakers

Kobe would have never got the same foul calls as Jordan. If Jordan didn't get those fouls calls (the creator of the super star foul call), he wouldn't have 6 rings or be perfect in the Finals (this doesn't mean that Jordan would still not be amazing).

And i never tried to make it seem as it was soooo easy to replace players; but when you have Shaq in his prime, you can place a lot of other star players around him (doesn't mean that it would work out), & they would most likely come out of it with 3 rings too (or even more... depending on team chemistry).

This is not to discredit Kobe, it's just that Shaq was that GOOD. But I can admit, if it wasn't for Kobe or another star wing player around Shaq, Shaq wouldn't have gotten those rings.

But that goes for any team trying to win a championship.... You need other good players around you.

Once again, Kobe is a good player. Shaq needed a star wing player like Kobe to do what he couldn't.

todu82
08-18-2014, 09:36 AM
Yeah don't think Kobe was thought of as being the top player in that draft class. Still think if he had gone to Philly instead of Charlotte/LA he would have had a similar career to the one he had with LA. As to Iverson it would have been interesting to see him with another team and how he'd react to not being the guy as he was with Philly.

Kevj77
08-18-2014, 02:09 PM
Anyone that actually watched those Shaq/Kobe teams would know that by the second championship nobody except Tmac could have done what Kobe did.

AI was more NBA ready as a rookie, but the Lakers really took off in 2000 because the got a guy named Phil as their coach and everyone understood their rolls don't underestimate the impact of Fisher, Fox, and Horry.

JasonJohnHorn
08-18-2014, 03:21 PM
I gotta think the 76ers were at least looking at Kobe. He was the home town favorite. But that said... Kobe went higher than expected.... he was the first guard to skip college after all.

Had he been drafted, he would pulled a McGrady and bolted if the 76ers weren't winning (which they weren't).

They would have had to do something with Stackhouse that year.... they would have needed a point guard to distribute to Kobe, Coleman and Weatherspoon, and I'm not sure they would have been able to build around Kobe with draft picks... they were bad enough to get high picks then.

It would interesting.