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View Full Version : Can the Knicks turn it around and return to 54 wins like during '12-'13



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FriedTofuz
08-16-2014, 02:26 AM
"ok now just to break this down

first we upgraded our pg position and added youth and depth last year when Tyson went down we had nobody around him jr also was hurt early on and timmy was still a rook and nervous early on amare was hurt early on and put on a minutes limit kmart was hurt all year we literally only had shump melo bargs and felton we started out 3 and 13 and still finished 1 game out of the playoffs that alone is crazy

jc larkin prigs
shump timmy
melo jr
amare bargs
dalembert smith

that team right there is a huge up grade over what we had last year while we did down grade on defense we significantly upgraded our pg position I even think larkin will be a good back up but more important whats flying under the radar is potentially if timmy improves from his rookie year which he has looked great in sl so far and bargs can find his game with jr and Jason smith we could be a very deep team we could end up having one of the best benches in the nba

now 37 45 is a joke

my realistic prediction is 50 wins'"

FriedTofuz
08-16-2014, 02:27 AM
The east is so wide open, that even if rondo was healthy, Boston would be the 4th seed.

Sportfan
08-16-2014, 02:30 AM
no

east fb knicks
08-16-2014, 02:32 AM
the knicks are going 82 and 0 and sweeping san Antonio in the finals :win:

amare stoudamire will win comeback player of the year mvp and defensive player of the year:ballspinning:

ChicagoFan4Eva
08-16-2014, 02:35 AM
Dang bro, thats a lot of firepower ^ LOL

But no I dont think they can.

FriedTofuz
08-16-2014, 02:36 AM
why not?

east fb knicks
08-16-2014, 02:42 AM
well the rest of the knicks forum thinks so...

lmao 1 or 2 people said we'd win 50 games bro half of the forum thinks we are going to be a 8th seed and the other half like me thinks we can win the division

lmao you created a thread bcuz I exposed the raptors for what they are overrated and only won bcuz of a weak division and conference people check out these stats

vs the east 32 20

vs below 500 teams 32 9

vs the atl division 11 5

ther is your proof :cheers:

FriedTofuz
08-16-2014, 02:44 AM
lmao 1 or 2 people said we'd win 50 games bro half of the forum thinks we are going to be a 8th seed and the other half like me thinks we can win the division

lmao you created a thread bcuz I exposed the raptors for what they are overrated and only won bcuz of a weak division and conference people check out these stats

vs the east 32 20

vs below 500 teams 32 9

vs the atl division 11 5

ther is your proof :cheers:

3rd best record in the nba after the rudy gay trade starting at 6-12.
Bye.

FriedTofuz
08-16-2014, 02:46 AM
well before our disaster of a season we won 54 games and even this year we were 2 and 2 against both the raos and nets and the fact is we have melo who is by far the best player in our division he is currently a superstar unlike dwill Livingston and kidd saved your season if hollins was such a great coach why did he get fired he's ok but he's no thibs if anything he is a slight upgrade over kidd who I think did a good job getting the nets to the 2nd rd kg is who is going to cover derons man on d im not going to waste my time on the craptors bro just read my post in this thread

the fact is tbh our division is a joke nobody in our division is a powerhouse 45 games might win our division this year if you think the nets are contenders your

east fb knicks
08-16-2014, 02:47 AM
3rd best record in the nba after the rudy gay trade starting at 6-12.
Bye.

bcuz they beat bad teams :facepalm:

FriedTofuz
08-16-2014, 02:48 AM
now the knicks have melo jc and a healthy amare in the starting 5 that's a pretty good starting 5 but the knicks imo should have jr smith come off of the bench along with timmy jr that alone is enough firepower for our bench but we also have larkin who was the 18th pick last year and we have bargs Jason smith acy and alridge as bigs for our bench

so like I said on paper we are the best team in that division

east fb knicks
08-16-2014, 02:49 AM
well before our disaster of a season we won 54 games and even this year we were 2 and 2 against both the raos and nets and the fact is we have melo who is by far the best player in our division he is currently a superstar unlike dwill Livingston and kidd saved your season if hollins was such a great coach why did he get fired he's ok but he's no thibs if anything he is a slight upgrade over kidd who I think did a good job getting the nets to the 2nd rd kg is who is going to cover derons man on d im not going to waste my time on the craptors bro just read my post in this thread

the fact is tbh our division is a joke nobody in our division is a powerhouse 45 games might win our division this year if you think the nets are contenders your

why did you quote me I think it's time for you to take a nap bro:laugh:

FriedTofuz
08-16-2014, 02:50 AM
Knicks have melo the raptors have bigger question marks then us outside of val lowry ross derozan Vasquez lou they don't have much talent and more important they are very weak at the 4 if amare stays healthy we are deep at the 4 with bargs smith and acy even melo could play spot minutes there against them I think the knicks play big against teams like the craptors

but now lets realize why kidd wanted to tank to play the raps casey is not a great coach he's a defense first guy like woody is and the raptors run a lot of iso and take bad shots val is a good player but he isn't an offensive player they have no post player to get them an easy basket Monroe would make the raptors the best team in our division but they don't have him or a player like him[/QUOTE]

why are people overrating the raps

http://theknicksblog.com/knicks/theknicksblog-podcast-film-critic-ben-lyons-stops-by/

you guys should listen to this knicks podcast they are pretty much saying what im saying that we should win our division and the craptors are overrated[/QUOTE]

again the raps were 11 5 in the atl 32 20 in the east and 32 9 vs below 500 teams

now jr smith won 6th man of the year

timmy nba all rookie first team

amare if healthy would be the 3rd best player on the raptors

jc just was a major part of a 49 win team who took the champs to a game 7

shump is a good defender who could slow down derozan he could even cover lowry

bargs is capable of putting up 18 ppg

dalembert was a major part of the mavs team also and he looked good against the champs

the only problem with the knicks is health if everybody is healthy we are the team to beat in the atlantic

east fb knicks
08-16-2014, 02:51 AM
mods can close this I think I made a raptors fan go:crazy:

:laugh:

Bostonjorge
08-16-2014, 05:54 AM
Knicks winning basketball games is a joke.

GiantsSwaGG
08-16-2014, 08:27 AM
Knicks might win 39 games

Cal827
08-16-2014, 08:31 AM
lmao 1 or 2 people said we'd win 50 games bro half of the forum thinks we are going to be a 8th seed and the other half like me thinks we can win the division

lmao you created a thread bcuz I exposed the raptors for what they are overrated and only won bcuz of a weak division and conference people check out these stats

vs the east 32 20

vs below 500 teams 32 9

vs the atl division 11 5

ther is your proof :cheers:

Just to point out a few things:

When the Knicks won 54 games, they were 37-15 against the same Eastern conference lol


31-8 vs teams below .500

and 10-6 against the Atlantic (which I'll give you, was tougher in your year than last year)

Also have to consider that the Eastern Conference tends to suck against the West (a trend that has continued since 2000 lol)

When the Knicks won the division, they went 17-13 vs the West
When the Raptors won the division, they were 16-14

I think the winner of this division is gonna be determined early. Whatever team starts off the best will probably take it. If the Knicks or Nets (Lopez back and healthy?) adjusted rosters are able to mesh early, then they both have a decent chance at winning the division, but I honestly think that the Raptors will remain the division champion. Either way, I honestly don't see the division winner of the Atlantic winning 50 games, and I actually wouldn't be surprised if they all are on the same golf course after the first round next year :laugh:. Each of these teams need huge adjustments that probably won't come until the next offseason or two.

The Cap space coming up for the teams (At least the Knicks and Raptors) make next offseason quite intriguing.

GiantsSwaGG
08-16-2014, 08:36 AM
Even if the Raps don't win the division I still expect them to make the playoffs

Necrosis
08-16-2014, 08:36 AM
Knicks have melo the raptors have bigger question marks then us outside of val lowry ross derozan Vasquez lou they don't have much talent and more important they are very weak at the 4 if amare stays healthy we are deep at the 4 with bargs smith and acy even melo could play spot minutes there against them I think the knicks play big against teams like the craptors

but now lets realize why kidd wanted to tank to play the raps casey is not a great coach he's a defense first guy like woody is and the raptors run a lot of iso and take bad shots val is a good player but he isn't an offensive player they have no post player to get them an easy basket Monroe would make the raptors the best team in our division but they don't have him or a player like him

why are people overrating the raps

http://theknicksblog.com/knicks/theknicksblog-podcast-film-critic-ben-lyons-stops-by/

you guys should listen to this knicks podcast they are pretty much saying what im saying that we should win our division and the craptors are overrated[/QUOTE]

again the raps were 11 5 in the atl 32 20 in the east and 32 9 vs below 500 teams

now jr smith won 6th man of the year

timmy nba all rookie first team

amare if healthy would be the 3rd best player on the raptors

jc just was a major part of a 49 win team who took the champs to a game 7

shump is a good defender who could slow down derozan he could even cover lowry

bargs is capable of putting up 18 ppg

dalembert was a major part of the mavs team also and he looked good against the champs

the only problem with the knicks is health if everybody is healthy we are the team to beat in the atlantic[/QUOTE]

The knicks got worse. How did they improve? chandler is light years better the sammy D and calderon is meh at best. Amir, val and patterson are better then any big on the knicks. Seriously, amare and bargs is the worst PF combo in the league, so brutal on defense, eff is brutal, rebounding brutal, help defense brutal, decision making brutal and no hustle.

Acy was on the raptors, he sucks.

Amare is never going to be healthy, so that point is moot.

T ross is better then shump, hardaway for sure. Better defensively and offensively. he shot 36% from three and you are acting like he is ray allen.


They tanked because the raptors have no experience, you could see that they were the better team, just mistakes and nerves, val was invisible near the end and ross never showed up.

Bargs is capable of putting up far more points then 18ppg, however, he sucks so bad that it doesn't matter, your team will lost if he is on the floor. There came a point where I couldn't
watch him on defense or on the boards, he crushes team spirit.

mightybosstone
08-16-2014, 09:15 AM
well before our disaster of a season we won 54 games and even this year we were 2 and 2 against both the raos and nets and the fact is we have melo who is by far the best player in our division he is currently a superstar unlike dwill Livingston and kidd saved your season if hollins was such a great coach why did he get fired he's ok but he's no thibs if anything he is a slight upgrade over kidd who I think did a good job getting the nets to the 2nd rd kg is who is going to cover derons man on d im not going to waste my time on the craptors bro just read my post in this thread

the fact is tbh our division is a joke nobody in our division is a powerhouse 45 games might win our division this year if you think the nets are contenders your

You keep mentioning how the Knicks "turned it around" in 2012-13. But how do you figure that? New York was 36-30 in a lockout shortened season with Melo missing 11 games, Stoudemire missing 19 games and J.R. Smith missing 31 games. The Knicks didn't "turn it around" the following season. They just had another season to gel together and the team was healthier overall (not counting Stoudemire).

Hell, when you figure out the number of wins that 11-12 Knicks team would have won over 82 games based on the same winning percentage, they would have been 48-34. That's a damn good season in the East. The following season they won six more games. That's not exactly "turning it around."

But do I think this year's Knick team can win six more games than last year? Sure. I like the addition of Calderon and what he can do for that offense and Dalembert isn't as significant a dropoff from Chandler as it might seem, especially if he can stay healthy. Hardaway will also have another year under his belt, as will Shumpert. I think that team will hover around .500 and make the playoffs as a 6-8 seed. But is that team winning 54 games? Not a chance in hell barring a major transaction mid-season.

nycericanguy
08-16-2014, 09:28 AM
You keep mentioning how the Knicks "turned it around" in 2012-13. But how do you figure that? New York was 36-30 in a lockout shortened season with Melo missing 11 games, Stoudemire missing 19 games and J.R. Smith missing 31 games. The Knicks didn't "turn it around" the following season. They just had another season to gel together and the team was healthier overall (not counting Stoudemire).

Hell, when you figure out the number of wins that 11-12 Knicks team would have won over 82 games based on the same winning percentage, they would have been 48-34. That's a damn good season in the East. The following season they won six more games. That's not exactly "turning it around."

But do I think this year's Knick team can win six more games than last year? Sure. I like the addition of Calderon and what he can do for that offense and Dalembert isn't as significant a dropoff from Chandler as it might seem, especially if he can stay healthy. Hardaway will also have another year under his belt, as will Shumpert. I think that team will hover around .500 and make the playoffs as a 6-8 seed. But is that team winning 54 games? Not a chance in hell barring a major transaction mid-season.

agree, Knicks have been solid, not great, but solid since Melo came. 34 games over .500 prior to last year. 72-33 under Woodson prior to last year and even counting last year 109 - 78 under Woodson.

They had a bad year, no one outside of Melo played well and they quit on WOodson. Calderon will fix a lot of their woes, I don't think most people realize just how bad Felton was.

Looking at Melo's career and track record, I'm willing to bet last year was an anomaly, but the OP has some odd obsession with NY and their fans.

Knicks have a similar roster to what DAL had last year, and DAL won 50 games out west and nearly took out the Spurs, and they were also mediocre the previous year.

I expect NY to be at 45-47 wins.

Cal827
08-16-2014, 10:16 AM
Oh god, with the trolls around here, I'm just gonna say is if a first round match up is Knicks-Raptors..... It's gonna get UGLY lol

DoMeFavors
08-16-2014, 10:30 AM
If chemistry is good anything can happen look at the suns this year, but its going to take a while an entire new team...new coach...new system it will take time if they ever get on a roll this season. I see about 39-42 wins this year for the Knicks

D-Leethal
08-16-2014, 10:34 AM
No one thought we would when we did, no one thought we would after the year we did, so I don't expect anyone to think we would now. But I think we hit anywhere from 48-54 wins. Anytime our PG hit a shot we played very well, we now have the best shooter in the game and lose nothing defensively from Felton to Calderon. Just like we did when we won 54 after finishing a crappy season up 18-6, I expect us to play a lot closer to the team that finished 14-5 after Phil came aboard than the team that was lollygagging through the wind all season. I'll be throwing my money on it.

DoMeFavors
08-16-2014, 10:40 AM
Oh god, with the trolls around here, I'm just gonna say is if a first round match up is Knicks-Raptors..... It's gonna get UGLY lol

The problem raptors didnt address is who guards the top wins on each team? Joe destroyed the raptors this past playoffs, Melo would probably do the same. Demar and Ross cant handle guys like that.

DoMeFavors
08-16-2014, 10:42 AM
No one thought we would when we did, no one thought we would after the year we did, so I don't expect anyone to think we would now. But I think we hit anywhere from 48-54 wins. Anytime our PG hit a shot we played very well, we now have the best shooter in the game and lose nothing defensively from Felton to Calderon. Just like we did when we won 54 after finishing a crappy season up 18-6, I expect us to play a lot closer to the team that finished 14-5 after Phil came aboard than the team that was lollygagging through the wind all season. I'll be throwing my money on it.

Yeah you do lose something with Jose to Felton, Felton might be bad but Jose is the worst pg defender in league.

D-Leethal
08-16-2014, 10:42 AM
What were the Raps best wins last year?

D-Leethal
08-16-2014, 10:44 AM
I just looked and outside of beating OKC and Memphis, I don't see one W that sticks out. And I am being generous as Memphis is a team that beats the big boys but also loses to the little guys quite frequently.

nycericanguy
08-16-2014, 10:50 AM
A lot of TOR fans are wayy too cocky off that 48 win season but the East was awful last year and TOR was VERY fortunate injury wise and got career years from several guys.

They are a solid team, but I don't see them as being a cut above anyone in the East. CLE and CHI assuming they are relatively healthy are the top 2 teams.

WSH, NY, MIA, TOR, CHA, BK... those teams are all lumped together and I could see any of those teams having the #3 record if things go their way.

Cal827
08-16-2014, 11:00 AM
The problem raptors didnt address is who guards the top wins on each team? Joe destroyed the raptors this past playoffs, Melo would probably do the same. Demar and Ross cant handle guys like that.

I agree, that's why I see them being a little stagnant this year (like 45-37). I really wanted them to make a play for Deng, but they decided not to. Next year for us is really dependent on the development of Ross and JV, cause this is basically the same roster as before (well, Louis Williams is on our team now too). I believe that JV will continue to grow.

I'm hoping Derozan/Ross do continue to grow too. lol, I don't know what happened to Derozan defensively in last years playoffs, I'm hoping that it was just first playoff jitters. As for Ross, I think the main issue is that he's playing out of position at SF. Playing out of position is going to hurt us bad when we have to deal with Lebron or Melo (who are both shredding weight off, so there might go his one advantage over them, especially Lebron).

I can envision a deal in the future where we deal one of the two off, but that's just my opinion.

Cal827
08-16-2014, 11:04 AM
A lot of TOR fans are wayy too cocky off that 48 win season but the East was awful last year and TOR was VERY fortunate injury wise and got career years from several guys.

They are a solid team, but I don't see them as being a cut above anyone in the East. CLE and CHI assuming they are relatively healthy are the top 2 teams.

WSH, NY, MIA, TOR, CHA, BK... those teams are all lumped together and I could see any of those teams having the #3 record if things go their way.

Pretty much this lol.... but I would put Cleveland and Atlanta into this list too and expand from like 2-9. Yes, they have Lebron, but any team with a decent post presence could dissect this team.

I think Chicago has to be the Eastern Conference favorite (on paper) right now. I'm wondering if they might try to ship off Gibson for a legitimate SG:

Rose
??? (Dunleavy as default)
Butler
Gasol
Noah

D-Leethal
08-16-2014, 11:05 AM
Yeah you do lose something with Jose to Felton, Felton might be bad but Jose is the worst pg defender in league.

I'd argue Felton was the worst PG defender in the league last year.

D-Leethal
08-16-2014, 11:07 AM
Its tough to judge the Raps, I think they are kinda like Charlotte who benefited the most off a horrid conference and didn't really have ANY statement wins and struggled big time vs good teams. Once the competition on a nightly basis begins to rise, they could take a big step back. I like the Raps roster though more than Charlotte.

mightybosstone
08-16-2014, 11:08 AM
Pretty much this lol.... but I would put Cleveland and Atlanta into this list too and expand from like 2-9. Yes, they have Lebron, but any team with a decent post presence could dissect this team.

I think Chicago has to be the Eastern Conference favorite (on paper) right now. I'm wondering if they might try to ship off Gibson for a legitimate SG:

Rose
??? (Dunleavy as default)
Butler
Gasol
Noah
Okay.... But if we're arguing how good teams will be on paper, how are the Bulls better than the Cavaliers? Rose hasn't been an elite player in the league in three years and Gasol is 2-3 seasons past his prime. I fail to see how that roster is better "on paper" than a Cavaliers team with three top 25 caliber players currently in their prime. Also, the Cavs are a deeper basketball team right now.

nycericanguy
08-16-2014, 11:10 AM
Pretty much this lol.... but I would put Cleveland and Atlanta into this list too and expand from like 2-9. Yes, they have Lebron, but any team with a decent post presence could dissect this team.

I think Chicago has to be the Eastern Conference favorite (on paper) right now. I'm wondering if they might try to ship off Gibson for a legitimate SG:

Rose
??? (Dunleavy as default)
Butler
Gasol
Noah

forgot ATL... but CLE? no way, any team that has LBJ is a cut above the rest... add in Love, Kyrie, Varaejo, Waiters, Thompson... that team is stacked and they have better rim protection and better shooting than MIA did... the pieces fit much better.

D-Leethal
08-16-2014, 11:18 AM
forgot ATL... but CLE? no way, any team that has LBJ is a cut above the rest... add in Love, Kyrie, Varaejo, Waiters, Thompson... that team is stacked and they have better rim protection and better shooting than MIA did... the pieces fit much better.

They will be better than Miami and win 60+ for sure. With Wade's decline and being a poor fit next to LeBron overall, the only thing they had going for them were the 3 point snipers. No bigs, no rebounding, no interior defense, just shooters. Cleveland has the shooters to go with an elite playmaker to wreak havoc from the weakside (which Wade was in years 1 and 2 except Kyrie can also shoot the long ball), a stretch 4 like Bosh who can is a way better 3 point shooter and infinitely better rebounder, and they have mobile, agile big men who live to play defense and crash the boards. Cleveland will be Miami on steroids, and LeBron knew that.

GiantsSwaGG
08-16-2014, 11:23 AM
What were the Raps best wins last year?

Who cares, they made the playoffs that's all that matters. If ppl were saying the same about our Knicks you would be livid.

The Raps have a nice young core and a pretty good coach. They might not be as good as last year but I fully expect them to make the playoffs. Derozen can only get better and Lowry (who's overpaid) is a good PG.

The Knicks on the other are a longs way away from competing. I love the direction we're going but we can easily not make the playoffs this year. I mean even Melo realizes that!

D-Leethal
08-16-2014, 11:30 AM
Who cares, they made the playoffs that's all that matters. If ppl were saying the same about our Knicks you would be livid.

The Raps have a nice young core and a pretty good coach. They might not be as good as last year but I fully expect them to make the playoffs. Derozen can only get better and Lowry (who's overpaid) is a good PG.

The Knicks on the other are a longs way away from competing. I love the direction we're going but we can easily not make the playoffs this year. I mean even Melo realizes that!

If you want to generalize in a vaccum its all that matters. If you dissect who they beat and who they struggled against its not too difficult to surmise they take a step back this year. Some teams thrive against the bottom feeders and never beat the big guys. Those teams will have big years when the East is as bad across the board as it was last year. Those teams will take a step back when the competition on a nightly basis rises up. Knicks have actually shown they can beat top teams they just don't focus on a night to night basis and lose to the crap teams. That can happen again this year, I don't think it will.

You didn't think the 18-6 finish would lead to a 50 win season two years ago either, so I don't expect you to now, you are as pessimistic a fan as we have on this board. You rile up the Knicks board and you rile up the Giants board with your negativity. To the point where I question if you are even fan.

DoMeFavors
08-16-2014, 11:35 AM
I think Nets will win the division

A. We have the best PG rotation out of all Atlantic teams
B. We have best big men rotation in Atlantic teams
C. We have the best coach out of all Atlantic teams

D-Leethal
08-16-2014, 11:43 AM
Who is BK's backup PG nowadays?

Lowry ***** on Derons face nowadays.

D-Leethal
08-16-2014, 11:44 AM
Lowry/Lou is by far the best PG rotation in the division. Rondo is better than Deron as well. JC might even be better than Deron.

DoMeFavors
08-16-2014, 11:49 AM
Who is BK's backup PG nowadays?

Lowry ***** on Derons face nowadays.

Jarrett Jack

akesh99
08-16-2014, 11:54 AM
I think Nets will win the division

A. We have the best PG rotation out of all Atlantic teams
B. We have best big men rotation in Atlantic teams
C. We have the best coach out of all Atlantic teams

Lowry, Vasquez, Lou > Deron, Jack, Teague

nycericanguy
08-16-2014, 11:57 AM
People look at Dalembert and Calderon like trash but those guys started every game at C & PG on a team that won 50 games out west and nearly took out the Spurs.

I don't expect the Knicks D to be great, but they are going to be a very efficient offensive team. The last 2-3 years they led the league in fewest TO's... now they are adding one of the lowest turnover PG's in recent history in Calderon.

Guys like Melo & JR take a lot of slack for ISO and shot selection, but for guys that have the ball as much as they do, they almost never turn it over either.

A good offense allows you to set your defense. Spurs defense isn't great and they have alot of subpar individual defenders, but their offense is so efficient that they almost always set their D.

deaner
08-16-2014, 12:03 PM
the knicks are going 82 and 0 and sweeping san Antonio in the finals :win:

amare stoudamire will win comeback player of the year mvp and defensive player of the year:ballspinning:

Stat will need to fight teammates Bargnani and Calderon for Defensive player distinctions. There's a new big 3!

DoMeFavors
08-16-2014, 12:07 PM
People look at Dalembert and Calderon like trash but those guys started every game at C & PG on a team that won 50 games out west and nearly took out the Spurs.

I don't expect the Knicks D to be great, but they are going to be a very efficient offensive team. The last 2-3 years they led the league in fewest TO's... now they are adding one of the lowest turnover PG's in recent history in Calderon.

Guys like Melo & JR take a lot of slack for ISO and shot selection, but for guys that have the ball as much as they do, they almost never turn it over either.

A good offense allows you to set your defense. Spurs defense isn't great and they have alot of subpar individual defenders, but their offense is so efficient that they almost always set their D.

Dalembert is pretty horrible at this point, Jose is a good shooter who plays no defense. Cuban had no problem giving them away along with Larkin for Chandler. Dalembert is really slow these days and is below average Center. Jose will help but if he is on floor with Amare or Bargnani the defense will be scary bad.

deaner
08-16-2014, 12:15 PM
mods can close this I think I made a raptors fan go:crazy:

:laugh:

He's not a raptor fan... He's a defect from the lakers.

dalton749
08-16-2014, 12:16 PM
Lol Knicks fans says raptors are weak at pf, then brings up guys like acy
Amir Johnson= taj Gibson he's so underrated, Patrick Patterson is better than bargnani and actually shot 40% from 3, and hansborogh, who would play on most teams can't even get off the bench, and then bebe noiguera a 16th overall pick
they got James Johnson to guard guys like joe, he's an elite wing defender
Looking at anything from last year has to be done post Rudy gay, where they were better than Miami, Indy, and most western conference teams, believe me you're under estimating them

D-Leethal
08-16-2014, 12:29 PM
Lol Knicks fans says raptors are weak at pf, then brings up guys like acy
Amir Johnson= taj Gibson he's so underrated, Patrick Patterson is better than bargnani and actually shot 40% from 3, and hansborogh, who would play on most teams can't even get off the bench, and then bebe noiguera a 16th overall pick
they got James Johnson to guard guys like joe, he's an elite wing defender
Looking at anything from last year has to be done post Rudy gay, where they were better than Miami, Indy, and most western conference teams, believe me you're under estimating them

Name me 5 statement Ws Toronto had last year.

dalton749
08-16-2014, 12:44 PM
Name me 5 statement Ws Toronto had last year.

I'm not about to look up games on my phone but I'm pretty sure they blew out the pacers at home where they had been underfeated, beat okc at home to give them their first loss there, swept Dallas and Memphis as well as a few other west teams
Beat the nets twice I think when they turned it around and won like 11 in a row

deaner
08-16-2014, 12:45 PM
Name me 5 statement Ws Toronto had last year.

You seem to be a little obsessive on this point. The fact was Toronto was playing consistent and needed to take a few steps. They ran with two very young starters last year. Nba basketball is not about the high and low points. It's about consistency and playoffs. Of course... If you want to bring up highs and lows, I'm sure this forum can list highs and lows for the Knicks. Some of the lows were the dirtiest in the nba last year.

Raps are not finished, Masai is incredibly patient and not willing to give up assets for quick fixes. That may not register with someone from NY, but trust me it's a good thing long term.

mike_noodles
08-16-2014, 01:07 PM
lmao 1 or 2 people said we'd win 50 games bro half of the forum thinks we are going to be a 8th seed and the other half like me thinks we can win the division

lmao you created a thread bcuz I exposed the raptors for what they are overrated and only won bcuz of a weak division and conference people check out these stats

vs the east 32 20

vs below 500 teams 32 9

vs the atl division 11 5

ther is your proof :cheers:

So what's the rest of that equation? 16-14 vs the West. Do you even math bro?

And as for beating up on lesser teams, well that's what good teams do.

FriedTofuz
08-16-2014, 01:24 PM
He's not a raptor fan... He's a defect from the lakers.

you're insightful, keep it up.

FriedTofuz
08-16-2014, 01:26 PM
After seeing what happened in the playoffs, I think the raptors have an answer for a SF like Joe Johnson, they got james johnson, quite the defender and rebounder and has good size at his position. I think with Lopez back in the mix, they should play better this year. I dont know what's up with deron but he's been so ****, if he plays like he did in the playoffs, nets arent going too far.

FriedTofuz
08-16-2014, 01:26 PM
Knicks are winning 54 wins this yeaar because that's what phil jackson brings, winning.

FriedTofuz
08-16-2014, 01:27 PM
deaner joins bucketsss for people on my ignore list.

GiantsSwaGG
08-16-2014, 02:05 PM
If you want to generalize in a vaccum its all that matters. If you dissect who they beat and who they struggled against its not too difficult to surmise they take a step back this year. Some teams thrive against the bottom feeders and never beat the big guys. Those teams will have big years when the East is as bad across the board as it was last year. Those teams will take a step back when the competition on a nightly basis rises up. Knicks have actually shown they can beat top teams they just don't focus on a night to night basis and lose to the crap teams. That can happen again this year, I don't think it will.

You didn't think the 18-6 finish would lead to a 50 win season two years ago either, so I don't expect you to now, you are as pessimistic a fan as we have on this board. You rile up the Knicks board and you rile up the Giants board with your negativity. To the point where I question if you are even fan.

Sorry if I'm telling the truth about my team. Unlike you, I know when to take my homer hat off

deaner
08-16-2014, 02:53 PM
deaner joins bucketsss for people on my ignore list.

Oh gosh. How will I go on.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
08-16-2014, 03:20 PM
I think they win around 39-43 games.

Chaotic98
08-16-2014, 03:22 PM
Name me 5 statement Ws Toronto had last year.

I can name 48 statement wins, which is still 11 more wins than what the Knicks had. It really doesn't matter who you beat, the 76ers beat the Heat last year, it only matters how many you win in the end.

Jamiecballer
08-16-2014, 03:40 PM
to the OP - no. one of the biggest failing on last years team IMO is that there are just way too many low IQ knuckleheads and i still see most of them are there - Melo/Bargs/Stat/Smith. Jose will help but this is not even close to the group that won 54 two years ago.

mike_noodles
08-16-2014, 04:18 PM
I think one things Knicks fans don't realize yet is the ability of Jose Calderon to pound the ball into the floor. I give it two weeks before you are frustrated at how often he keeps the ball until 8-10 seconds left on the shot clock.

mike_noodles
08-16-2014, 04:21 PM
Honestly I love this thread.

1. People are talking about the Raps being overrated/underrated, whatever. If they were a terrible team, nobody would be talking about them at all.

2. Knicks fans are mad cause the lowly Raps are better than them and it makes their blood boil. Again, if they're a terrible team, nobody would be talking about it.

benny01
08-16-2014, 04:30 PM
Lol Knicks fans says raptors are weak at pf, then brings up guys like acy
Amir Johnson= taj Gibson he's so underrated, Patrick Patterson is better than bargnani and actually shot 40% from 3, and hansborogh, who would play on most teams can't even get off the bench, and then bebe noiguera a 16th overall pick
they got James Johnson to guard guys like joe, he's an elite wing defender
Looking at anything from last year has to be done post Rudy gay, where they were better than Miami, Indy, and most western conference teams, believe me you're under estimating them
you realize that Gibson is one of the leagues most OVERATED players right, and I'm a Bulls fan. He's a very good defender that makes flashy plays. There is no part of his game, outside of his D, that is more than average at best. James Johnson is not an elite defender. You guys are far better than NY but those two statements are crap.

Cal827
08-16-2014, 04:35 PM
Okay.... But if we're arguing how good teams will be on paper, how are the Bulls better than the Cavaliers? Rose hasn't been an elite player in the league in three years and Gasol is 2-3 seasons past his prime. I fail to see how that roster is better "on paper" than a Cavaliers team with three top 25 caliber players currently in their prime. Also, the Cavs are a deeper basketball team right now.


For Gasol, I still think he has a few good years in him. He was always in trade talk in the past 3 years (E.g. for Chris Paul, or last year, to try and get draft picks), and I think that eventually took its toll on him. Also, in this last year, he was the #1 option (since Kobe played like 6 games), which is something he wasn't used to from his Memphis days. Being on the Bulls where he would likely be the 2nd scorer can help him get back to where he was (at least IMO).

I guess it's just me, but perhaps I'm underrating the Love Acquisition. Last year, that team should have at least been close to the last playoff spot (with Phoenix). What else does he need to help him? He had a guy who allowed him to stretch the floor for the most part of the season (Pekovic), he had a guy who passed him the ball (although maybe a little better if he could hit a damn shot lol), he had another shooter, he had some decent role players on the bench too.

He was a horrible defender in Minnesota, and although there are less huge impact PFs in the East, there still are some that could **** with the team if Love continues to slack off there. If he will let his stats fall drop for improving his defensive intangibles, then maybe that team will the Favorite for the East.... or perhaps Cleveland isn't done with making moves lol

Cal827
08-16-2014, 04:39 PM
:laugh:

Surprised a mod hasn't closed this thread yet, pretty much one single Raptor fan baiting a bunch of Knick fans, and a Knick fan re-baiting.

GiantsSwaGG
08-16-2014, 04:47 PM
:laugh:

Surprised a mod hasn't closed this thread yet, pretty much one single Raptor fan baiting a bunch of Knick fans, and a Knick fan re-baiting.

:laugh: didn't the RIP Jordanbulls thread and FreCrooner thread last for days?

benny01
08-16-2014, 04:51 PM
For Gasol, I still think he has a few good years in him. He was always in trade talk in the past 3 years (E.g. for Chris Paul, or last year, to try and get draft picks), and I think that eventually took its toll on him. Also, in this last year, he was the #1 option (since Kobe played like 6 games), which is something he wasn't used to from his Memphis days. Being on the Bulls where he would likely be the 2nd scorer can help him get back to where he was (at least IMO).
I guess it's just me, but perhaps I'm underrating the Love Acquisition. Last year, that team should have at least been close to the last playoff spot (with Phoenix). What else does he need to help him? He had a guy who allowed him to stretch the floor for the most part of the season (Pekovic), he had a guy who passed him the ball (although maybe a little better if he could hit a damn shot lol), he had another shooter, he had some decent role players on the bench too.

He was a horrible defender in Minnesota, and although there are less huge impact PFs in the East, there still are some that could **** with the team if Love continues to slack off there. If he will let his stats fall drop for improving his defensive intangibles, then maybe that team will the Favorite for the East.... or perhaps Cleveland isn't done with making moves lol
You are forgetting that Love is perfect. His is beloved by his teammates. He is a monster with his back to the basket. He's a much more complete player than Bosh. He is by no means soft. He and Irving's stats will not be affected by Lebron. they will be just as effective as 2's and 3's as they were as 1's. The league's gonna extend the games so it makes perfect sense. he might be the most underated defender in he league. I doubt CLE loses a game.

DallasTrilla23
08-16-2014, 05:20 PM
Well, to answer the original question... Anything is possible in the east

latinofire21
08-16-2014, 05:42 PM
Well, to answer the original question... Anything is possible in the east

I really laugh at the sticky made about hating on the Houston Rockets when threads like these have been made about the Knicks for years and they are left up forever. Pretty Biased.

To the OP: Please use punctuation. I have no idea what you were saying and got a headache trying to read your nonsense.

I have been here a while and you have a new team every season so this we and our crap needs to stop. Your a hornets/lakers/nets/raptors/ whoever pulls the next big trade fan. So get your Cavs jersey ready.

Stop the Knicks baiting.

As for the conclusion that the Raptors are better than the Knicks right now I disagree but that's what the season is for. We played very badly last season and almost snuck into the playoffs. We have a major downgrade at center but Raymond Felton is gone and that's one less last second floater to lose us a game that I have to see moving forward. I think this team can win the division as long as they buy into the triangle fast.

As for the Raptors I think you had the "Lin Effect" Extremely overachieved and teams weren't ready for Kyle Lowry. Lowry is known to be good only in contract years so lets see if he breaks the trend. I don't think the Raptors do better than next year and if the odds were made on the Raptors it would most likely be that they have a worse record this year.

Lets see how they play when people game plan for them before we anoint them a top eastern conference team.

nycericanguy
08-16-2014, 05:42 PM
Honestly I love this thread.

1. People are talking about the Raps being overrated/underrated, whatever. If they were a terrible team, nobody would be talking about them at all.

2. Knicks fans are mad cause the lowly Raps are better than them and it makes their blood boil. Again, if they're a terrible team, nobody would be talking about it.

You do realize it's TOR fans who keep making threads about the Knicks right? Even in their own TOR forum they made a Knick thread and in the Knick forum and NBA forum... a bit obsessive really.

So yea, if the Knicks are so awful why do TOR fans care so much about this topic?

You don't see Knick fans making threads about how bad the Sixers are gonna be...

DaBUU
08-16-2014, 05:45 PM
60 games easy this team is loaded

jc larkin prigs
shump timmy
melo jr
amare bargs
dalembert smith

benny01
08-16-2014, 05:47 PM
60 games easy this team is loaded

jc larkin prigs
shump timmy
melo jr
amare bargs
dalembert smith

is that sarcasm

Cal827
08-16-2014, 05:48 PM
:laugh: didn't the RIP Jordanbulls thread and FreCrooner thread last for days?

:laugh2:

I forgot about those!

It'll be another two months before JordansBulls allegedly dies again.... Who da **** comes up with that :pity:

Cal827
08-16-2014, 05:48 PM
is that sarcasm

:laugh2: Is your first post sarcasm?

Chaotic98
08-16-2014, 05:50 PM
is that sarcasm

I would hope so.

ESPN isn't giving the Knicks much of a chance, they have them finishing 10th, and the Raptors 3rd in the East.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11334160/2014-summer-forecast-east-standings

West predictions are pretty good too.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11334331/2014-summer-forecast-west-standings

mike_noodles
08-16-2014, 05:50 PM
You do realize it's TOR fans who keep making threads about the Knicks right? Even in their own TOR forum they made a Knick thread and in the Knick forum and NBA forum... a bit obsessive really.

So yea, if the Knicks are so awful why do TOR fans care so much about this topic?

You don't see Knick fans making threads about how bad the Sixers are gonna be...

Yeah, I'm a card carrying member of that forum so I'm aware of all that. Point still stands. If it didn't we wouldn't have 5 pages of people comparing the two teams, it would have been a ghost thread and disappeared within hours.

benny01
08-16-2014, 05:55 PM
:laugh2: Is your first post sarcasm?
the one about Gibson or the one about Love.

Cal827
08-16-2014, 06:09 PM
the one about Gibson or the one about Love.


The Gibson post. We all know that Love will lead that team to 98-0 :D

DoMeFavors
08-16-2014, 06:12 PM
Its insulting that Knicks just moved a few pieces around while not making the playoffs last year and are in probably the marquee spot for opening week against Cavaliers in their first home game.

benny01
08-16-2014, 06:18 PM
The Gibson post. We all know that Love will lead that team to 98-0 :D
Right,lol. Gibson's not as good as people think, don't get me wrong he's fun as hell to watch. It's hard to believe, but Noah is much more effecient offensively. If you dig through the homers on the Bulls forum there are some really good breakdowns pertaining to that. I'd point you right to them, but I'm pretty lazy generally, and incredibly lazy on Saturdays,

Bartlee23
08-16-2014, 06:46 PM
Okay.... But if we're arguing how good teams will be on paper, how are the Bulls better than the Cavaliers? Rose hasn't been an elite player in the league in three years and Gasol is 2-3 seasons past his prime. I fail to see how that roster is better "on paper" than a Cavaliers team with three top 25 caliber players currently in their prime. Also, the Cavs are a deeper basketball team right now.


That is one of the dumbest statements I have heard on here in a long time. Yes, Cleveland does have three premier players on their team but Chicago can easily go 10 players deep comfortably. After Cleveland's " big three" the talent level decreases tremendously.

benny01
08-16-2014, 06:50 PM
[/B]

That is one of the dumbest statements I have heard on here in a long time. Yes, Cleveland does have three premier players on their team but Chicago can easily go 10 players deep comfortably. After Cleveland's " big three" the talent level decreases tremendously.
You forgot to mention that Irving is clearly not top 25.

Bartlee23
08-16-2014, 06:52 PM
You forgot to mention that Irving is clearly not top 25.

Thank you. I said " premier " meaning all-star which in a sense he is but I did not say " top 25 " which he is not.

Seizabmc
08-16-2014, 08:40 PM
Let me just make one thing clear,
Basketball is not only about the players on the court .

The coach and system are probally the most important part of winning.

That's why the bulls get so much respect , because they have such a good coach.
If thibs wasn't there coach, do you really think the bulls would be as good?

So my point is, people are really under estimating what Phil Jackson brings to the knicks.

With Phil in ny, along with a new coach and a new system , that alone will make the knicks a much better team .

Add to that, there won't be any more drama and turmoil in the locker room now that melo has resigned.

Along with a improved pg.

The knicks will win the Atlantic and be a top four team in the east.

Oh yeah and the wiz will be better than the rapts.

Mark my words!

ankit
08-16-2014, 08:57 PM
Noo, No and No. Why one they lost Tyson Chandler, two they have Bargnani who is just a burden. Three Amare Stoudmire will never get back to who he was and four how can you run a triangle offense around Stoudmire/BArgnani and Samuel this wont work. The Triangle offense in La La Land had Lamar Odom/Pau Gasol, Pau Gasol, Bynum who were pretty good at that time. Fifth Fisher has never coached in the league and at best was a role player unlike Jason Kidd who was actually a really good point guard that played both ends off the court. Sixth Carmello is a ball hog and will just take his shots and enjoy stardom in the Glamour of New-York with La La. Sixth they dont have a legitimate point guard and Calderron at best is good off the bench. They need a point guard who can score and dishes to space the floor out even more and not one that just dishes because the passes will be deflected . I doubt the Knicks even qualify for the eight seed which will have a below .500 record.

FriedTofuz
08-16-2014, 09:09 PM
what are people talking about? Just because I have an unbiased opinion about teams like the hornets and knicks doesnt mean Im a fan im them. Also in regards the to OP that I made, It was a copy of a knick fan who felt did a better job explaining his team's situation than whatever I could've done, so i qouted him. So if the grammar sucked, I apologized, I should've summarized his words/vent in my own words but I was too lazy for that.

Secondly, this thread is not to bait anyone or knick fans. The thread's purpose was to enligthen others of the knicks situation by qouting what a knick fan had to say, because I dont have enough knowledge about their team like the person I qouted. I found it comical that some knick fans thought they could win 54 games again and make the ECF finals, but just to ensure that I wasnt the crazy one, I wanted to hear what others thought.

But yes, I wont lie, the knick fans have been overly optimistic and far from realistic, to the point where it has been annoying.

ManningToTyree
08-16-2014, 09:23 PM
They will be somewhere in between the last last two seasons. They are not as bad as last season and they are no where near as good as the 54 win team. 45 wins and a playoff birth seems reasonable

I still have Toronto winning the division

Chaotic98
08-16-2014, 09:50 PM
Let me just make one thing clear,
Basketball is not only about the players on the court .

The coach and system are probally the most important part of winning.

That's why the bulls get so much respect , because they have such a good coach.
If thibs wasn't there coach, do you really think the bulls would be as good?

So my point is, people are really under estimating what Phil Jackson brings to the knicks.

With Phil in ny, along with a new coach and a new system , that alone will make the knicks a much better team .

Add to that, there won't be any more drama and turmoil in the locker room now that melo has resigned.

Along with a improved pg.

The knicks will win the Atlantic and be a top four team in the east.

Oh yeah and the wiz will be better than the rapts.

Mark my words!

Firstly, Phil Jackson is an amazing coach. However, you forget he is the team's president and not coach. I think you are over estimating what he may bring. He brings instant respect and credibility to a franchise that has been a laughing stock for a the better part of a decade.

Secondly, Thibs is the COACH of the Bulls, not their president. He has daily interactions and coaches them on a daily basis. That's what coaches do.

Thirdly, Fisher has never coached a day in his life. Have you also forgotten he lost the respect and control of his players union during the strike. They ousted him because they saw him as more of a buddy of the commissioner than the players. Let's see how much respect the Knicks players give him off the bat, Melo was quite upset at Fisher during that time.

Fourthly, if the triangle offense was the end all and be all, then why don't more coaches use it? Also for it to be effective you need A great passing PG (Jose) a slasher and finisher (Melo) and a good big (no one). It will be hard to pull it off with any of Bargs, Stat, Dalembert, Smith.

Fifth, what about a defensive strategy for the Knicks. Jose is one the worse cover PGs. The Bigs of Amare and Bargs couldn't guard a library during closing hours. Melo would rather play O than D, and Shumpert will be the lone serviceable defender of a starting five.

east fb knicks
08-16-2014, 09:57 PM
why does nobody ever bring up how bad of a job casey did in the playoffs or his lack of an actual offensive system

Chaotic98
08-16-2014, 10:22 PM
why does nobody ever bring up how bad of a job casey did in the playoffs or his lack of an actual offensive system

Nobody is claiming he is a great coach with a great system or has he been compared to Thibs.

NBA_Starter
08-16-2014, 10:40 PM
Never say never but with a rookie coach it is hard to see a turnaround in year one.

east fb knicks
08-16-2014, 10:40 PM
Nobody is claiming he is a great coach with a great system or has he been compared to Thibs.

well thank god they have normal raptor fans out there that friedtofuzz dude is the biggest homer of any team I've ever met lmao dude literally created 3 threads about the knicks to prove his point which he is still yet to do:facepalm:

east fb knicks
08-16-2014, 10:42 PM
Never say never but with a rookie coach it is hard to see a turnaround in year one.

mia did it pho did it ntm our real coach is pj fisher is more like his puppet

Clippersfan86
08-16-2014, 10:45 PM
Long answer, no. Short answer, no.

effen5
08-16-2014, 10:55 PM
mia did it pho did it ntm our real coach is pj fisher is more like his puppet

Phil is not your real coach. I doubt he goes to any of the road games and maybe half the home games.

Second mia and phx actually has some talent, outside of melo the knicks dont.

NBA_Starter
08-16-2014, 10:56 PM
That was qucik :D

east fb knicks
08-16-2014, 11:44 PM
Phil is not your real coach. I doubt he goes to any of the road games and maybe half the home games.

Second mia and phx actually has some talent, outside of melo the knicks dont.

lmao pj is pretty much our coach he's literally installing the system himself at training camp kinda like what mia did with spo and the suns had the same team and won
outside of dragic and Bledsoe what talent do they have come on bro your reaching right now

dalton749
08-16-2014, 11:56 PM
High fives for reasonable Knicks fans. I died laughing at their podcast where they thought they had a chance at number 1 and ecf

The triangle is so overrated. If it were that great way more teams would use it. It's all about the talent which the Knicks just don't have outside of melo

benny01
08-17-2014, 12:49 AM
the knicks are in a holding pattern until next season which is why these arguments are so laughable. By the way, Phil is not your coach like at all. Fisher is your coach and may do fine. It's kind of sad that you guys keep clinging to that. Are you that convinced that Fisher can't coach?

FriedTofuz
08-17-2014, 02:22 AM
well thank god they have normal raptor fans out there that friedtofuzz dude is the biggest homer of any team I've ever met lmao dude literally created 3 threads about the knicks to prove his point which he is still yet to do:facepalm:

Look at all the threads I've made, I didnt act like a homer. If I do think that the raptors are a better team than the knicks after considering several variables such as a talent, depth, statistics on records, offensive and defensive efficiency, youth and development, the raptors are over the knicks. I was actually a lot more considerate than what you're saying. I dont think the raptors will be the 3 seed. I think the hornets or heat will be there instead. Raptors should be 4th.

As for my points, I have proved my points, many many times, you're not accepting or even countering the fact, all you do is instead say " thank for the insight, im done with you ;facepalm: " instead of letting your emotions get involved, try to do some research and post to make sense. I've genuinely tried to understand the knicks perspectives, I even watched the podcast and I died at the homerism in ny to think they could be number 1 LOL

east fb knicks
08-17-2014, 06:02 AM
the knicks are in a holding pattern until next season which is why these arguments are so laughable. By the way, Phil is not your coach like at all. Fisher is your coach and may do fine. It's kind of sad that you guys keep clinging to that. Are you that convinced that Fisher can't coach?

bro ther is a reason pj went after kerr and fisher I can bring up quotes pj wants to be hands on with the coach if that wasn't the case we would have went after a better coach but pj said he wants to mentor fisher who I believe will be a great coach but just needs a little help with his first gig as coach it's no coincidence that pj went after a coach to run HIS SYSTEM

east fb knicks
08-17-2014, 06:05 AM
High fives for reasonable Knicks fans. I died laughing at their podcast where they thought they had a chance at number 1 and ecf

The triangle is so overrated. If it were that great way more teams would use it. It's all about the talent which the Knicks just don't have outside of melo

11 nba titles:facepalm:

PurpleLynch
08-17-2014, 08:02 AM
11 nba titles:facepalm:

I agree,the triangle is not overrated and Phil is a legend coach,top 3 of all time for sure.
But...well,Bulls and Lakers had MJ,Pippen,Kobe,Shaq,Rodman,Kerr,Odom,Grant,Horry etc...while Knicks have just a 30 years old Anthony with a bunch of young guys. So my answer is no,they can't return to 54 wins this year.

dalton749
08-17-2014, 01:15 PM
Those teams would have won championships with or without Phil and his triangle because they were some of the most talented teams in nba history.

GiantsSwaGG
08-17-2014, 01:47 PM
Those teams would have won championships with or without Phil and his triangle because they were some of the most talented teams in nba history.

Keep in mind he nearly lead the Bulls to the finals with just Pippin

D-Leethal
08-17-2014, 02:51 PM
I agree,the triangle is not overrated and Phil is a legend coach,top 3 of all time for sure.
But...well,Bulls and Lakers had MJ,Pippen,Kobe,Shaq,Rodman,Kerr,Odom,Grant,Horry etc...while Knicks have just a 30 years old Anthony with a bunch of young guys. So my answer is no,they can't return to 54 wins this year.

So the team that won 54 games a couple years back was uber-talented compared to this years roster or something?

DaBUU
08-17-2014, 03:03 PM
is that sarcasm

Yes

koreancabbage
08-17-2014, 03:09 PM
lmao 1 or 2 people said we'd win 50 games bro half of the forum thinks we are going to be a 8th seed and the other half like me thinks we can win the division

lmao you created a thread bcuz I exposed the raptors for what they are overrated and only won bcuz of a weak division and conference people check out these stats

vs the east 32 20

vs below 500 teams 32 9

vs the atl division 11 5

ther is your proof :cheers:

We have yet to see the Raptors fall flat on their face like the Knicks after a historical 3 point shooting barrage from that team. I mean of course they are supposed to beat the worst teams in the league. So did the Knicks when they won their division. captain obvious here. And then the Knicks subsequently fell flat on their face last year lol

But I know what you mean, you have followed the Knicks these last 2-4 years... so i guess you know what overrated is. Even with a superstar in Melo that is also considered overrated for all these years.

east fb knicks
08-17-2014, 04:18 PM
We have yet to see the Raptors fall flat on their face like the Knicks after a historical 3 point shooting barrage from that team. I mean of course they are supposed to beat the worst teams in the league. So did the Knicks when they won their division. captain obvious here. And then the Knicks subsequently fell flat on their face last year lol

But I know what you mean, you have followed the Knicks these last 2-4 years... so i guess you know what overrated is. Even with a superstar in Melo that is also considered overrated for all these years.

ummmmmmm the raptors fell flat on their face in the playoffs and they have been falling for years bro lmao you guys have 1 good season calm down brothe reason I put up those stats was to show you guys won bcuz of lesser competition the bulls did also and pacers a lot of teams benefitted from a very weak conference this year a lot of those mediocre teams got better like the cavs hornets hawks and knicks the east will be a lot more competitive this year

benny01
08-17-2014, 04:51 PM
bro ther is a reason pj went after kerr and fisher I can bring up quotes pj wants to be hands on with the coach if that wasn't the case we would have went after a better coach but pj said he wants to mentor fisher who I believe will be a great coach but just needs a little help with his first gig as coach it's no coincidence that pj went after a coach to run HIS SYSTEM
Yes your right the GM(jackson) would like to mentor his coach(fisher). There is much more to coaching a team day in and day out than installing a system. That's a true statement not an exxagerated PJ is basically the coach. You guys could have a very bright future after next season when you have the ability to bring in guys that can play basketball.

east fb knicks
08-17-2014, 05:32 PM
Yes your right the GM(jackson) would like to mentor his coach(fisher). There is much more to coaching a team day in and day out than installing a system. That's a true statement not an exxagerated PJ is basically the coach. You guys could have a very bright future after next season when you have the ability to bring in guys that can play basketball.

lmao your right bro I did go bit far saying pj is basically our coach but my point is fisher has the luxury to get advice from the goat of all coaches on a day to day basis I think fish will be fine with in game coaching he did it as a player for years but where pj comes in at is helping fish out with game plans and helping him teach the system

btw pj isn't our gm mills is pj is our president

benny01
08-17-2014, 05:34 PM
^much more reasonable

Iron24th
08-17-2014, 05:47 PM
The knicks aren't playoffs material right now even in the east

east fb knicks
08-17-2014, 05:50 PM
The knicks aren't playoffs material right now even in the east

why:confused:

Iron24th
08-17-2014, 05:56 PM
why:confused:

First, I'd like to say that I like the knicks and support fish and phil but I find their roster too thin, and I don't think they're good enough to be top 8 ahead of

Cavs
Bulls
Pacers
Heat
Wizards
Raptors
Hornets
Nets

In no particular order

Necrosis
08-17-2014, 05:58 PM
why:confused:

They are clearly not better then Tor, Was, Chi, Cle or Miami. I doubt they are better then a healthy atlanta team or the bobcats with the additions they made. It will be tight, why is there so much optimism? the team appears worse on paper then last year. Losing chandler is a big blow imo, he was one of the non knuckle heads who tried to play hard and the right way.

deaner
08-17-2014, 05:58 PM
ummmmmmm the raptors fell flat on their face in the playoffs and they have been falling for years bro lmao you guys have 1 good season calm down brothe reason I put up those stats was to show you guys won bcuz of lesser competition the bulls did also and pacers a lot of teams benefitted from a very weak conference this year a lot of those mediocre teams got better like the cavs hornets hawks and knicks the east will be a lot more competitive this year

How is a game 7 loss by a blocked shot falling flat on their face? We were worried by the matchup from the start. There were flaws in our system that were exposed for sure. There were time last season that we couldn't score. That should be fixed with the addition of a healthy Lou. There were times when when our two very young starting players in Ross and Val struggled. They are maturing. We added James Johnson to go up against the Melo, Lebron, joe Johnson's of the league which will be a big step over John Salmons. Our only real depth issue is a big bodied C. That will come in time. Masai isn't about to throw picks around like candy at a Santa Claus parade. Unlike your Knicks... We have additional assets available to cash in when the right deal comes along.

Raps have a top 10 offense and defense. They will improve on that this season while tightening up certain things. How can anyone even think for a second the Knicks have any sort of defensive resource? Not at the top, not in the leadership, not in the middle.... Why blab about our playoff run when if you did make it that defense would get swept.

We are one year ahead of the Knicks in this system rebuild from a new and exciting GM. Don't think you have the market covered on that. Masai has done a great job and had a much better track record at the big chair than Phil does. Just wait till Dolan and Phill blow up. Leiweke is a mastermind... That excites us. MSG has nothing even close to his level of expertise.

It's impossible to think that most teams got better in the east. They are just different and the flaws have not yet surfaced. As a raptor fan we are excited about consistency with tweaks. We think we will hit the ground running rather than in years pasts because we had to build from the bottom.

Personally, I've got your Knicks having the same first half you did last year. You'll warm up at some point.

We can talk and reason all we want. I'd rather just watch the games. I'm confident knick fans will be eating crow again for the first half.

PurpleLynch
08-17-2014, 06:25 PM
So the team that won 54 games a couple years back was uber-talented compared to this years roster or something?

No,but they had anyway a younger Anthony that was on a scoring mission,JR Smith had his best year as pro,Kidd and Felton were still playing decent bball,knockin' a lot of threes and moving the ball with fluidity,the bench was good(Martin,JR,Novak,Prigioni,Shumpert),Chandler did good on defense even though he was not at the same level of 2011.
Imo they weren't uber talented,but they were better anyway than this year Knicks.
Maybe I will be wrong and I hope that for you,but right now things aren't like in 2012/2013. Plus the eastern conference got better this offseason(Cleveland and Chicago are the frontrunners;plus there are underdog like Detroit,Milwaukee,Toronto,Washington,Charlotte and the list goes on). We'll see anyway.

cssdmark
08-17-2014, 06:47 PM
48 wins! book it but I would not be mad if we got in the lottery 2015 we actually have our 1st round pick.

ManRam
08-17-2014, 06:52 PM
I think both 54 wins and 37 wins were flukes...but I think 54 was clearly the bigger one. There's a reason the more stringent forecasters predicted that huge fall off last year.

east fb knicks
08-17-2014, 07:14 PM
How is a game 7 loss by a blocked shot falling flat on their face? We were worried by the matchup from the start. There were flaws in our system that were exposed for sure. There were time last season that we couldn't score. That should be fixed with the addition of a healthy Lou. There were times when when our two very young starting players in Ross and Val struggled. They are maturing. We added James Johnson to go up against the Melo, Lebron, joe Johnson's of the league which will be a big step over John Salmons. Our only real depth issue is a big bodied C. That will come in time. Masai isn't about to throw picks around like candy at a Santa Claus parade. Unlike your Knicks... We have additional assets available to cash in when the right deal comes along.

Raps have a top 10 offense and defense. They will improve on that this season while tightening up certain things. How can anyone even think for a second the Knicks have any sort of defensive resource? Not at the top, not in the leadership, not in the middle.... Why blab about our playoff run when if you did make it that defense would get swept.

We are one year ahead of the Knicks in this system rebuild from a new and exciting GM. Don't think you have the market covered on that. Masai has done a great job and had a much better track record at the big chair than Phil does. Just wait till Dolan and Phill blow up. Leiweke is a mastermind... That excites us. MSG has nothing even close to his level of expertise.

It's impossible to think that most teams got better in the east. They are just different and the flaws have not yet surfaced. As a raptor fan we are excited about consistency with tweaks. We think we will hit the ground running rather than in years pasts because we had to build from the bottom.

Personally, I've got your Knicks having the same first half you did last year. You'll warm up at some point.

We can talk and reason all we want. I'd rather just watch the games. I'm confident knick fans will be eating crow again for the first half.

I only read the first sentence the raps had hca and played against an injured old bk team that was a very bad loss imo that series should not even have gone 7 games

east fb knicks
08-17-2014, 07:17 PM
First, I'd like to say that I like the knicks and support fish and phil but I find their roster too thin, and I don't think they're good enough to be top 8 ahead of

Cavs
Bulls
Pacers
Heat
Wizards
Raptors
Hornets
Nets

In no particular order

those are the only teams we have to worry about if we have a better record then both of those team we get a top 4 seed the nets are definitely not better then us neither are the raptors imo

east fb knicks
08-17-2014, 07:20 PM
I think both 54 wins and 37 wins were flukes...but I think 54 was clearly the bigger one. There's a reason the more stringent forecasters predicted that huge fall off last year.

why we actually had more talent and less injuries when we won 37 games our problem was our pg position we fixed that and Tyson hasn't been the same player in 2 years even when we won 54 games kmart outplayed him on 1 ankle

Tmath
08-17-2014, 08:22 PM
Hopefully both teams make, and meet each other in the playoffs. It has potential to be a great rivalry.

LanceUpperCut
08-17-2014, 08:42 PM
If the Raps only did good cause of a horrible conference, then the knicks must really ****ing suck cause their in the same damn one.

Chaotic98
08-17-2014, 08:50 PM
Hopefully both teams make, and meet each other in the playoffs. It has potential to be a great rivalry.

Between the PSD fans sure. I would say the Raptors have a better rivalry with the Nets after UM said F Brooklyn and a game 7 series.

D-Leethal
08-17-2014, 08:54 PM
No,but they had anyway a younger Anthony that was on a scoring mission,JR Smith had his best year as pro,Kidd and Felton were still playing decent bball,knockin' a lot of threes and moving the ball with fluidity,the bench was good(Martin,JR,Novak,Prigioni,Shumpert),Chandler did good on defense even though he was not at the same level of 2011.
Imo they weren't uber talented,but they were better anyway than this year Knicks.
Maybe I will be wrong and I hope that for you,but right now things aren't like in 2012/2013. Plus the eastern conference got better this offseason(Cleveland and Chicago are the frontrunners;plus there are underdog like Detroit,Milwaukee,Toronto,Washington,Charlotte and the list goes on). We'll see anyway.

Everything you posted is true, but there is absolutely no reason this current cast can't duplicate what was done that year. The talent level comparable if not higher and we have a system in place and a mastermind who has done nothing but squeeze the most juice out of the talent on his rosters his whole career.

Melo had a better season last year than he did the 54 win year. No reason he can't do it again this year. He has not felt the effects of older age one bit and is still smack dab in his prime until proven otherwise. The best part about 40 year old Kidd was his decision making (Calderon can duplicate that with much better shooting).

Saying there is no way they can duplicate that success is baseless. Saying they definitely will is also baseless. Saying they can is not.

D-Leethal
08-17-2014, 09:02 PM
I think both 54 wins and 37 wins were flukes...but I think 54 was clearly the bigger one. There's a reason the more stringent forecasters predicted that huge fall off last year.

The stringent forecasters predicted the same crappy season the year we won 54. Than they predict the same crappy season and they win 37. I can see how both were flukes, but you can't say one was clearly bigger than the other because the forecasters forecasted the same thing both seasons and were dead wrong once, and were right once. Throw enough **** at a wall something is gonna stick. Those stringent forecasters were dead wrong on a lot of teams last year and are every year.

Cal827
08-17-2014, 09:08 PM
To realistically answer this question though, I think that this team could win anywhere from 35 to 47 games. It all depends on how quickly they are able to mesh with each other.

deaner
08-17-2014, 09:20 PM
I only read the first sentence the raps had hca and played against an injured old bk team that was a very bad loss imo that series should not even have gone 7 games

It's called perspective. You should try it sometime. So you don't like someone's views so you don't even read? Proof that the Knick fans aren't even open to the truth.

BHF
08-17-2014, 11:24 PM
Hopefully both teams make, and meet each other in the playoffs. It has potential to be a great rivalry.

Lets be serious the Knicks have no chance making the playoffs.

effen5
08-18-2014, 06:49 AM
I think both 54 wins and 37 wins were flukes...but I think 54 was clearly the bigger one. There's a reason the more stringent forecasters predicted that huge fall off last year.

In the last 6 years, their average win total is 38.3 games. 37 really isn't a fluke. 54 wins is.

D-Leethal
08-18-2014, 07:50 AM
In the last 6 years, their average win total is 38.3 games. 37 really isn't a fluke. 54 wins is.

lmao, so you count the D'Antoni years where we did nothing but cut cap and tank along with the lockout season in your win totals. Not like your biased or anything...

.543 winning % with Melo since 2011. 45% last year, 69% the year before...yea I'd say you can't say which one was the fluke.

Exclude the D'Antoni years - Knicks were 72-33 under Woodson for .689 winning % that fell down to .45 last year. Even including last year - 107-78 for .583.

Nice try though boss.

2-ONE-5
08-18-2014, 09:55 AM
no they cant. 2 years ago was a bit of a fluke. they relied on hitting 3's and got off to a crazy hot two months or so to open the season and proceeded to go on a steady decline the rest of the season but were able to play some good defense. now their defense is horrid and they dont have much outside of Melo.


but Phil is there!

koreancabbage
08-18-2014, 09:58 AM
lmao, so you count the D'Antoni years where we did nothing but cut cap and tank along with the lockout season in your win totals. Not like your biased or anything...

.543 winning % with Melo since 2011. 45% last year, 69% the year before...yea I'd say you can't say which one was the fluke.

Exclude the D'Antoni years - Knicks were 72-33 under Woodson for .689 winning % that fell down to .45 last year. Even including last year - 107-78 for .583.

Nice try though boss.

I remember the love for Woodson when they replaced Dantoni and they went on that run. Then love turned to hatred after a short while lol.

NK has a new coach this season so there is going to be some growing pains. and some huge defensive lapses (mostly all the time).

Pierzynski4Prez
08-18-2014, 10:19 AM
lmao, so you count the D'Antoni years where we did nothing but cut cap and tank along with the lockout season in your win totals. Not like your biased or anything...

.543 winning % with Melo since 2011. 45% last year, 69% the year before...yea I'd say you can't say which one was the fluke.

Exclude the D'Antoni years - Knicks were 72-33 under Woodson for .689 winning % that fell down to .45 last year. Even including last year - 107-78 for .583.

Nice try though boss.

What's closer to 54? 45 or 69?

KnickNyKnick
08-18-2014, 10:30 AM
lets all be honest here, Toronto will struggle to make the playoffs. Other teams will adjust to the raptors play and they will struggle for the 8th seed at best. The only fluke year was last year for both the Knicks and Raps.

Non knick fans have no idea what was happening to the team chemistry. Up until the last month Woodson had lost his players, The Knicks had no order, Not until Phil signed. And it was evident seeing the run they put up towards the end.

Tyson Chandler was even frustrated at woodsons horrible coaching and lack of play making when the game was on the line. There's order in the court now! and much better depth. more than the craptors anyway.

effen5
08-18-2014, 10:41 AM
I remember the love for Woodson when they replaced Dantoni and they went on that run. Then love turned to hatred after a short while lol.

NK has a new coach this season so there is going to be some growing pains. and some huge defensive lapses (mostly all the time).

They are going to get a new coach every 3 years. We all know fish wasn't Phils first choice. And fish has absolutely zero experience.

effen5
08-18-2014, 10:42 AM
lets all be honest here, Toronto will struggle to make the playoffs. Other teams will adjust to the raptors play and they will struggle for the 8th seed at best. The only fluke year was last year for both the Knicks and Raps.

Non knick fans have no idea what was happening to the team chemistry. Up until the last month Woodson had lost his players, The Knicks had no order, Not until Phil signed. And it was evident seeing the run they put up towards the end.

Tyson Chandler was even frustrated at woodsons horrible coaching and lack of play making when the game was on the line. There's order in the court now! and much better depth. more than the craptors anyway.

What depth? Knicks are over rating their bench like crazy.

D-Leethal
08-18-2014, 10:55 AM
What's closer to 54? 45 or 69?

They are both far enough away to warrant the label of "flukey".

D-Leethal
08-18-2014, 10:56 AM
I remember the love for Woodson when they replaced Dantoni and they went on that run. Then love turned to hatred after a short while lol.

NK has a new coach this season so there is going to be some growing pains. and some huge defensive lapses (mostly all the time).

Well when you are 72-33 after the previous coach floundered around .500 for 2 years, you're gonna get some love. When you follow that up with 37-45, in NY that will turn to hatred. How long is the averages coaches shelf like in this league? Thats the name of the game in the NBA...

What have you done for me lately or your gone.

Pierzynski4Prez
08-18-2014, 11:01 AM
They are both far enough away to warrant the label of "flukey".

But one is much closer than the other. Yes or no?

deaner
08-18-2014, 11:06 AM
lets all be honest here, Toronto will struggle to make the playoffs. Other teams will adjust to the raptors play and they will struggle for the 8th seed at best. The only fluke year was last year for both the Knicks and Raps.

Non knick fans have no idea what was happening to the team chemistry. Up until the last month Woodson had lost his players, The Knicks had no order, Not until Phil signed. And it was evident seeing the run they put up towards the end.

Tyson Chandler was even frustrated at woodsons horrible coaching and lack of play making when the game was on the line. There's order in the court now! and much better depth. more than the craptors anyway.

Do Knick fans think Phil is going to travel and ghost coach this team for 82 games? Reality check. Phil can't travel due to health concerns. That cuts his games to 41. Then add his relationship to Jeanie. Would a 50/50 split between NY and LA be reasonable? 21-30 games seems right. Let's not get carried away that Phil is going to make everything perfect off the bat. He's an elderly man who is in a new position and took Dolan's money because that's what everyone does. Phil should make some contributions... But let's not get carried away. New RARELY translates to wins in the nba.

FriedTofuz
08-18-2014, 03:35 PM
New york will need to be at least a decent defensive team to be able to rack up a lot of wins. THey got a lot of good offensive players who've regressed as of late ( bargs, melo, calderon,jr) so I do not see them doing well because of how bad the'yd be defensively. Who would be melo's second all star? every top 4 team in the east has about two allstars or all-star caliber players on their team. NY just has melo, and that's not enough for a talented eastern conference.

SPURSFAN1
08-18-2014, 03:37 PM
The knicks suck. I don't know how people can cheer for such a **** team.

NYKnickFanatic
08-18-2014, 03:52 PM
The knicks suck. I don't know how people can cheer for such a **** team.

Loyalty.

And stay classy. Most Spurs fans on here are usually respectful and have good posts, I guess you're not one of them.

Should take some pointers from the organization you cheer for.

SPURSFAN1
08-18-2014, 03:53 PM
Loyalty.

And stay classy. Most Spurs fans on here are usually respectful and have good posts, I guess you're not one of them.

Should take some pointers from the organization you cheer for.

No thanks. :cheers:

NYKnickFanatic
08-18-2014, 03:56 PM
"ok now just to break this down

first we upgraded our pg position and added youth and depth last year when Tyson went down we had nobody around him jr also was hurt early on and timmy was still a rook and nervous early on amare was hurt early on and put on a minutes limit kmart was hurt all year we literally only had shump melo bargs and felton we started out 3 and 13 and still finished 1 game out of the playoffs that alone is crazy



Dude, you're not even a Knicks fan...

:confused:

FriedTofuz
08-18-2014, 03:57 PM
The knicks suck. I don't know how people can cheer for such a **** team.

well to be fair, I dont think many were expecting them to plument so low like last season, especially since they were at the top of the east for a good portion of the season haha. But if you drop that much in one season, it's probably unlikely to just skyrocket back to the top considering how the knicks made roaster moves and made them worse defensively.

SPURSFAN1
08-18-2014, 03:59 PM
well to be fair, I dont think many were expecting them to plument so low like last season, especially since they were at the top of the east for a good portion of the season haha. But if you drop that much in one season, it's probably unlikely to just skyrocket back to the top considering how the knicks made roaster moves and made them worse defensively.

I agree. :hi5:

FriedTofuz
08-18-2014, 03:59 PM
Dude, you're not even a Knicks fan...

:confused:

I originally made a thread with my summarization of what I've been hearing from knicks fans on why they can turn around and get back to contention, but then I felt like it would be less biased if I simply were to qoute an opinion from a knicks perspective, but not exactly call that person out? I felt like his opinion hit what most knick fans probably are thinking. IN summary, it wasnt my words, hence the quotation symbols

Crackadalic
08-18-2014, 04:01 PM
New york will need to be at least a decent defensive team to be able to rack up a lot of wins. THey got a lot of good offensive players who've regressed as of late ( bargs, melo, calderon,jr) so I do not see them doing well because of how bad the'yd be defensively. Who would be melo's second all star? every top 4 team in the east has about two allstars or all-star caliber players on their team. NY just has melo, and that's not enough for a talented eastern conference.

We were 11th in offensive efficiency and closer to the top 5 after Bargs went down. Plus Melo had his best statistical season then his 54 win season.

Jr was recovering from knee surgery. Look at his numbers from March 1st on shooting over 46% and from three a ridiculous 45%

Mind you we didn't have a structure offensive all season and our best offensive starting five was felton/pablo/shump/melo/tyson was the best +/- starting 5 in the league last year

So again offense will never be a problem when we upgraded from a much better offensive pg.

If you want to talk about defense find. Yeah we miss our defensive anchor but that does't mean much when he only plays 55 games like he did last year.

That's why we are only fighting for a 7th/8th seed. I do think the off the court issues we had was such a fluke and we can finally play basketball but the defense isn't strong enough to overcome the rest of the east that got better

FriedTofuz
08-18-2014, 04:05 PM
We were 11th in offensive efficiency and closer to the top 5 after Bargs went down. Plus Melo had his best statistical season then his 54 win season.

Jr was recovering from knee surgery. Look at his numbers from March 1st on shooting over 46% and from three a ridiculous 45%

Mind you we didn't have a structure offensive all season and our best offensive starting five was felton/pablo/shump/melo/tyson was the best +/- starting 5 in the league last year

So again offense will never be a problem when we upgraded from a much better offensive pg.

If you want to talk about defense find. Yeah we miss our defensive anchor but that does't mean much when he only plays 55 games like he did last year.

That's why we are only fighting for a 7th/8th seed. I do think the off the court issues we had was such a fluke and we can finally play basketball but the defense isn't strong enough to overcome the rest of the east that got better

I feel like Melo has had his best statistical season because no one has been helping him so he had to carry a huge load. JR should be better now after the surgery is long done and now that the knicks have a good playmaker, im expecting the offense to be really good and everyone will get shots in the right places, so it will help. Honestly, Chandler ( not even shump) was who the knicks were relying on for defense, and now iwth him gone, they will be even worse.

I dont even think the knicks can make the 7th or 8th sseed, because even the Atlanta Hawks and Nets who I preject will be at those low seeds, have better talent on paper in terms of both offense and defense to be better than the knicks.

I see the knicks with a decent record but still missing the playoffs( 41-41). They have a chance potentially to beat Brooklyn out for the 8th but that's about it.

GiantsSwaGG
08-18-2014, 05:04 PM
Why is this thread still open?

nycericanguy
08-18-2014, 05:10 PM
I feel like Melo has had his best statistical season because no one has been helping him so he had to carry a huge load. JR should be better now after the surgery is long done and now that the knicks have a good playmaker, im expecting the offense to be really good and everyone will get shots in the right places, so it will help. Honestly, Chandler ( not even shump) was who the knicks were relying on for defense, and now iwth him gone, they will be even worse.

I dont even think the knicks can make the 7th or 8th sseed, because even the Atlanta Hawks and Nets who I preject will be at those low seeds, have better talent on paper in terms of both offense and defense to be better than the knicks.

I see the knicks with a decent record but still missing the playoffs( 41-41). They have a chance potentially to beat Brooklyn out for the 8th but that's about it.

So Melo not having help led to his best statistical season? what?...lol. No help almost always leads to inefficiency, not the opposite. When stars team up their efficiency skyrockets... Melo had an efficient year DESPITE not having help, not because of it...

But then again, aren't you the guy that said Derozan's FG% was so low because he shot a lot of free throws? You're really making a fool of yourself on these forums, and it's obvious to everyone that you're just a Knick hater.

And then you go on to say NY will win 41 games, yet you call Knick fans "delusional" for thinking they could win 45+... as if there's such a big difference.

Mods need to close all these bait threads, for your sake... it's just page after page of you embarrassing yourself.

Max.This
08-18-2014, 05:24 PM
Just another opportunity for haters to assemble and throw verbal jabs at the knicks/ their fan base. Good job

FriedTofuz
08-18-2014, 05:49 PM
So Melo not having help led to his best statistical season? what?...lol. No help almost always leads to inefficiency, not the opposite. When stars team up their efficiency skyrockets... Melo had an efficient year DESPITE not having help, not because of it...

But then again, aren't you the guy that said Derozan's FG% was so low because he shot a lot of free throws? You're really making a fool of yourself on these forums, and it's obvious to everyone that you're just a Knick hater.

And then you go on to say NY will win 41 games, yet you call Knick fans "delusional" for thinking they could win 45+... as if there's such a big difference.

Mods need to close all these bait threads, for your sake... it's just page after page of you embarrassing yourself.

Melo's efficiency is the same efficiency that he's had over the past 12 years of his career.
He shot 45% from the field during this season, and he's been average 45% FG for his entire career. There is ZERO evidence that supports him having greater efficiency. He did however, reach a career high in both MINUTES and REBOUNDS.

I asked a question because I was unaware how field goal was determined. You start somewhere, you learn, I asked a question and I had my misconception clarified and acknowledged the person for enlightening me on how Field goal work. That does not make me a fool.

Yes because I really do care what people on an online forum think of me? Yes I'm going to cry in a corner because people on a forum dislike what I'm contributing :laugh2:

No I am not baiting or hating on the knicks. I have supported my opinion with legitimate examples for why the knicks will not be a contender. I started this thread because I wanted to hear what others were thinking about the knicks because I do take into consideration that they were heavily injured, had a lot of locker room/coaching problems and it just turned into bad. I initially started this thread with my own summary of what I felt were the knicks concerns and asked if they can turn it around. However, I re-considered because I felt like I was going to be biased by putting in my own summary about the knicks team. So I did qoute a knick fan's words because he had a better insight on his team than I did, so it would at least open the eyes of other NBA fans about the knicks circumstances, so they could better hold an opinion on whether the knicks do indeed have a chance at regaining their position.

Instead of being bitter and disrupting a topic for this thread, kindly not post in it because it's derailing the flow of others who are actually positing opinions about the knicks situation, rather than butthurt homers from the knicks fans being overly sensitive to my opinions.

FriedTofuz
08-18-2014, 06:00 PM
So Melo not having help led to his best statistical season? what?...lol. No help almost always leads to inefficiency, not the opposite. When stars team up their efficiency skyrockets... Melo had an efficient year DESPITE not having help, not because of it...

But then again, aren't you the guy that said Derozan's FG% was so low because he shot a lot of free throws? You're really making a fool of yourself on these forums, and it's obvious to everyone that you're just a Knick hater.

And then you go on to say NY will win 41 games, yet you call Knick fans "delusional" for thinking they could win 45+... as if there's such a big difference.

Mods need to close all these bait threads, for your sake... it's just page after page of you embarrassing yourself.

That's a huge differential. How many games was it for the knicks to miss the playoffs? 1 whole game right? yeah No big deal. :laugh2:
No, it make a very huge difference. 1 game can decide who gets home court and who doesnt. But it's okay, now you know that it is significant and 41-41 is very generous considering how much better the east is now.

FriedTofuz
08-18-2014, 06:08 PM
If I were to hypothetically bait, I would say" thanks for your future lottery pick in 2016"
Both Denver and NY will be lottery teams during that year. "

I havent been doing that. So kindly take your sensitivity away from this thread if you cant handle hearing the slightest bit of disbelief about how successful your team will be in the upcoming season.

Da Knicks
08-18-2014, 06:53 PM
The knicks suck. I don't know how people can cheer for such a **** team.

wtf I could of swore most spur fans had class.

Cal827
08-18-2014, 07:50 PM
wtf I could of swore most spur fans had class.

We learn new things everyday lol

Just like I thought that we wouldn't have a Raptors version of Dnewguy, but here we are today :laugh2:

Jamiecballer
08-18-2014, 07:53 PM
The knicks have an outside chance at the postseason in a slightly improved conference. They also have a legit chance at the lottery. Tough call this time.

Cal827
08-18-2014, 07:55 PM
Loyalty.

And stay classy. Most Spurs fans on here are usually respectful and have good posts, I guess you're not one of them.

Should take some pointers from the organization you cheer for.

As a Diehard Leaf fan who roots for them, just to cry when they undergo their annual collapse I can understand that. :cheers:

Cal827
08-18-2014, 07:57 PM
Why is this thread still open?

Mods are waiting until they can pretty much ban everyone who's posting in here for something :laugh:

Goose17
08-18-2014, 08:10 PM
Calling it now.

Knicks don't make the playoffs this year.

SPURSFAN1
08-18-2014, 08:10 PM
Calling it now.

Knicks don't make the playoffs this year.

That's so bold!

Goose17
08-18-2014, 08:12 PM
That's so bold!

No it isnt.

Calling it now.

Knicks don't make the playoffs this year.

Now THAT is bold.

SPURSFAN1
08-18-2014, 08:13 PM
No it isnt.

Calling it now.

Knicks don't make the playoffs this year.

Now THAT is bold.

:laugh2:

Cal827
08-18-2014, 08:28 PM
Annnd Goose wins the thread

FriedTofuz
08-18-2014, 09:15 PM
We learn new things everyday lol

Just like I thought that we wouldn't have a Raptors version of Dnewguy, but here we are today :laugh2:

I think that's rather insultive considering I havent done anyting wrong. If my thread is causing so much " baiting" then report every single one of my posts or something. If you dont have anything positive to contribute to this thread, dont post it, it just steers everyone offtopic.

Cal827
08-18-2014, 09:50 PM
I think that's rather insultive considering I havent done anyting wrong. If my thread is causing so much " baiting" then report every single one of my posts or something. If you dont have anything positive to contribute to this thread, dont post it, it just steers everyone offtopic.

Lol, sorry but this is pretty much how Dnewguy got banned. He made an account bet on a playoff series, lost, then baited Knick fans as much as possible before being finally banned.

Since you lost your account bet (which you did try to man up to, but the mods refused to move), your posts seem to be more of raging and trolling Knick fans (being passive aggressive counts too lol)

Answer this question straight out: Who do you think in the East has the roster, coaching and timing of schedule that would put them in a situation where 54-28 is a distinct possibility? Most people have the same one or two teams: Chicago and/or Cleveland. Anyone else is either really hopeful for their team (as in if pretty much everything goes the way it needs to be), or are homers and don't really need to be talked to (and you should know this lol)

I don't get exactly why you are so mad if an Atlantic Division Rival would think that they could win the Division over us. I do think we have the best shot, but I wouldn't be shocked if we don't win it this season. As a few people have noted, our starting 5 roster(s) were quite healthy all the way though the season. We can hope that we are that lucky again. It's kinda like Portland on the other side; they were extremely healthy too last season. Just like us, if they remain healthy throughout again, then they might take that next step, but a few bad jumps/moves and they could take a step back next year too. Our one big advantage (well other than the start of our schedule) might be our depth over the other teams, but if one of them are lucky when it comes to injuries, then that depth is going to be our crutch (especially as SF, where we don't have a legit starting player as Ross is also a SG).

Also, what if the Knicks adapt to that New Offense quicker than expected? What if Bogdanvic makes a difference? Hell, Lopez is back, what if he can stay healthy? He'll definitely make a difference if he can play games. Lol, it's not like we won the division by 25 games and stayed the same, while the teams around us got worse.

Maybe a little less of a troll thread would be: Can the Knicks turn it around and return to the playoffs this year?

Pierzynski4Prez
08-18-2014, 10:01 PM
Annnd Goose wins the thread

This. Now let's close this up so someone can make one about the Bulls or Cavs tomorrow.

Six-8-TheWizard
08-18-2014, 10:06 PM
No it isnt.

Calling it now.

Knicks don't make the playoffs this year.

Now THAT is bold.

:laugh:

effen5
08-18-2014, 10:19 PM
No it isnt.

Calling it now.

Knicks don't make the playoffs this year.

Now THAT is bold.

:laugh:

stambrose84
08-18-2014, 10:24 PM
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh NO........ knicks ......B/C Melo "its not about the money" Anthony..say i just want to win AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH

Crackadalic
08-18-2014, 10:27 PM
Lol, sorry but this is pretty much how Dnewguy got banned. He made an account bet on a playoff series, lost, then baited Knick fans as much as possible before being finally banned.

Since you lost your account bet (which you did try to man up to, but the mods refused to move), your posts seem to be more of raging and trolling Knick fans (being passive aggressive counts too lol)

Answer this question straight out: Who do you think in the East has the roster, coaching and timing of schedule that would put them in a situation where 54-28 is a distinct possibility? Most people have the same one or two teams: Chicago and/or Cleveland. Anyone else is either really hopeful for their team (as in if pretty much everything goes the way it needs to be), or are homers and don't really need to be talked to (and you should know this lol)

I don't get exactly why you are so mad if an Atlantic Division Rival would think that they could win the Division over us. I do think we have the best shot, but I wouldn't be shocked if we don't win it this season. As a few people have noted, our starting 5 roster(s) were quite healthy all the way though the season. We can hope that we are that lucky again. It's kinda like Portland on the other side; they were extremely healthy too last season. Just like us, if they remain healthy throughout again, then they might take that next step, but a few bad jumps/moves and they could take a step back next year too. Our one big advantage (well other than the start of our schedule) might be our depth over the other teams, but if one of them are lucky when it comes to injuries, then that depth is going to be our crutch (especially as SF, where we don't have a legit starting player as Ross is also a SG).

Also, what if the Knicks adapt to that New Offense quicker than expected? What if Bogdanvic makes a difference? Hell, Lopez is back, what if he can stay healthy? He'll definitely make a difference if he can play games. Lol, it's not like we won the division by 25 games and stayed the same, while the teams around us got worse.

Maybe a little less of a troll thread would be: Can the Knicks turn it around and return to the playoffs this year?

Those are my initial feelings. There is no clear cut favorite to the Atlantic Division with the raps with the best chance

The Raps beat a knicks teams by 11 games to win the division last year with you guys having little to no big time injuries to your core guys.

I don't bet our roster being healthy all year but again the talent level between TOR/BK/NY isn't so huge that people can say trollish things about the other(not saying the op is saying this)

2-ONE-5
08-19-2014, 08:53 AM
there is certainly a gap bewtween the Raptors to the knicks and nets

nycericanguy
08-19-2014, 09:05 AM
there is certainly a gap bewtween the Raptors to the knicks and nets

talent wise not really...

It's all about health and guys playing up to their potential.

The Nets won 44 games but they were without their best player and Deron played like crap... those things can certainly change.

And the Knicks of course had a disaster, but that is not a 37 win team talent wise... I can't see everyone outside of Melo having a career worse year again.

The Raps meanwhile... Lowry played out of his mind last year, Derozan also had a career year, and they were the most fortunate team in the East injury wise.

Any of those teams can win the division, obviously TOR is the favorite now because NY & BK have things to prove...

2-ONE-5
08-19-2014, 09:19 AM
Raptors were healthy because they have young, in shape, typically healthy players who are improving and nearing or entering their primes. Nets dont have that, Knicks dont have that and both have new coaches

raptors

nets
knicks

dalton749
08-19-2014, 09:22 AM
Lowry had a career year because he was finally healthy. As long as he stays healthy he will keep up the same level of play. As for the other guys, they are expected to have career years because they're all 25 or under and have a ton of room for growth.

The Knicks should make the playoffs but Tyson chandlers impact was huge in that 54 win season, and there is nobody on the roster to match anything close to that production. They likely hover around .500 give or take a few games

mightybosstone
08-19-2014, 09:38 AM
[/B]

That is one of the dumbest statements I have heard on here in a long time. Yes, Cleveland does have three premier players on their team but Chicago can easily go 10 players deep comfortably. After Cleveland's " big three" the talent level decreases tremendously.
Okay. Let's have a little comparison then. After Lebron/Love and Rose/Noah, let's take the next 8 best players on each roster and compare their WS and WS/48 last season for fun to see who has the deeper roster:

Cleveland
Kyrie Irving - 6.7, .128
Tristan Thompson - 5.7, .106
Anderson Varejao - 5.4, .144
Shawn Marion - 4.3, .086
Ray Allen - 4.1, .101
Mike Miller - 3.9, .111
Matthew Delavedova - 2.1, .078
Dion Waiters - 1.6, .037

Chicago
Jimmy Butler - 7.1, .131
Mike Dunleavy -6.5, .121
Taj Gibson - 5.7, .117
Kirk Hinrich - 3.8, 0.85
Pau Gasol - 3.0, .076
Tony Snell - 1.6, .063
Nikola Mirotic - ?????
Doug McDermott - ?????

Chicago's top guys were more efficient than Cleveland's top guys last season, but I'd still much rather have Irving, Thompson and Varejao than Butler, Dunleavy and Gibson. Then the next three guys is where we see the significant edge in Cleveland's favor. With Marion and Miller already on board and Allen expected to sign there as well, Cleveland's bench will have a ton of veterans with championship experience. And then both squads have some inexperienced young guys.

But it's that veteran experience on the bench that I was referring to with Cleveland's bench when I said they were the deeper team.


You forgot to mention that Irving is clearly not top 25.
That's debatable. I think he's close, although his production dropped off a bit last season. If nothing else I think Irving is at least a top 25 "caliber" guy.

nycericanguy
08-19-2014, 09:39 AM
Lowry had a career year because he was finally healthy. As long as he stays healthy he will keep up the same level of play. As for the other guys, they are expected to have career years because they're all 25 or under and have a ton of room for growth.

The Knicks should make the playoffs but Tyson chandlers impact was huge in that 54 win season, and there is nobody on the roster to match anything close to that production. They likely hover around .500 give or take a few games

Lowry has had healthy seasons before, but if you're suggesting that last year was the only time he's ever really healthy then that's an even bigger concern for TOR.

Lowry came into last year having averaged 1.1 three's per game, last year he averaged 2.4 per game, more than even Kevin Durant! Those are numbers that scream FLUKE.

He's a good PG, but the chances of him playing 80 games again AND playing at the level are slim, he's likely to regress some.

Tyson's best year was 2012, he's been declining since, he wasn't that great during the 54 win season, he'll be missed but Knicks have done fine without him as well. When he went down at the end of the 2013 season NY finished 16-3 without him.

Last year they were 14-17 without him, so they actually had a better winning % without him last year.

The upgrade at PG and the overall team upgrade is much greater than the Tyson loss.

GiantsSwaGG
08-19-2014, 10:03 AM
Raptors were healthy because they have young, in shape, typically healthy players who are improving and nearing or entering their primes. Nets dont have that, Knicks dont have that and both have new coaches

raptors

nets
knicks

If Lowry gets hurt again like he always does (with the exception of this season) then the raps are in trouble.

Yes the Raps are better than the Knicks and Nets but not by that much. And didn't the Nets beat the raps if I'm not mistaken?

GiantsSwaGG
08-19-2014, 10:05 AM
Lowry has had healthy seasons before, but if you're suggesting that last year was the only time he's ever really healthy then that's an even bigger concern for TOR.

Lowry came into last year having averaged 1.1 three's per game, last year he averaged 2.4 per game, more than even Kevin Durant! Those are numbers that scream FLUKE.

He's a good PG, but the chances of him playing 80 games again AND playing at the level are slim, he's likely to regress some.

Tyson's best year was 2012, he's been declining since, he wasn't that great during the 54 win season, he'll be missed but Knicks have done fine without him as well. When he went down at the end of the 2013 season NY finished 16-3 without him.

Last year they were 14-17 without him, so they actually had a better winning % without him last year.

The upgrade at PG and the overall team upgrade is much greater than the Tyson loss.

This 100%

Not to troll Mavs fan but you're foolish to expect the 2011 Chandler. A motivated Chandler is still good thou

GiantsSwaGG
08-19-2014, 10:11 AM
talent wise not really...

It's all about health and guys playing up to their potential.

The Nets won 44 games but they were without their best player and Deron played like crap... those things can certainly change.

And the Knicks of course had a disaster, but that is not a 37 win team talent wise... I can't see everyone outside of Melo having a career worse year again.

The Raps meanwhile... Lowry played out of his mind last year, Derozan also had a career year, and they were the most fortunate team in the East injury wise.

Any of those teams can win the division, obviously TOR is the favorite now because NY & BK have things to prove...

We have the talent but we still have question marks at the interior defense and defense overall. Plus factor in the rookie head coach. We have the talent bro but just like last year (WHEN WE SAID THE SAMETHING) we flopped. It's not about talent. We might of been the most talented team in the league last year in a weak *** east and couldn't even make the playoffs. And I know Knick fans want to blame Woodson (who season pior won 54 games in a tougher east) but it isn't entirely his fault.

I expect us to have a better season definitely maybe even make the playoffs but let's see how we jell and how fast we grasp the triangle.

I also agree with the Lowry comment. Dude is injury prone and had a career year in a contract year. Now that he got paid hopefully for Raps fans he doesn't come back down to earth

dalton749
08-19-2014, 10:14 AM
Lowry never had the freedom of being the number 1 guy, or the minutes of one.
Because derozan isn't a great 3 point shooter Lowry was asked to shoot way more of them. His career averages are irrelevant, he's made 1.5 a game or more the last 4 years in less minutes.
Per 36 he's been around 2 a game, it's not a fluke, he's just good.

And to say Tyson wasn't that great during the 54 win season is completely wrong. He had a way higher win share/ per 48 than even melo

2-ONE-5
08-19-2014, 10:17 AM
If Lowry gets hurt again like he always does (with the exception of this season) then the raps are in trouble.

Yes the Raps are better than the Knicks and Nets but not by that much. And didn't the Nets beat the raps if I'm not mistaken?

beating them in the palyoffs has no bearing on the reg season where the raps wont have to worry about keeping older guys fresh and all that. but as for the playoff L it was youth vs experience and it was a good, tough, very close series that came down to the last play. experience usually wins against the first timers

GiantsSwaGG
08-19-2014, 10:20 AM
beating them in the palyoffs has no bearing on the reg season where the raps wont have to worry about keeping older guys fresh and all that. but as for the playoff L it was youth vs experience and it was a good, tough, very close series that came down to the last play. experience usually wins against the first timers

You put a healthy Brook Lopez, the Nets beat the Raps in 6.

The raps aren't that better than the Nets or Knicks.

GiantsSwaGG
08-19-2014, 10:21 AM
Lowry never had the freedom of being the number 1 guy, or the minutes of one.
Because derozan isn't a great 3 point shooter Lowry was asked to shoot way more of them. His career averages are irrelevant, he's made 1.5 a game or more the last 4 years in less minutes.
Per 36 he's been around 2 a game, it's not a fluke, he's just good.

And to say Tyson wasn't that great during the 54 win season is completely wrong. He had a way higher win share/ per 48 than even melo

Did you also factor in he was in a contract year? Players usual have career years in a contract year

nycericanguy
08-19-2014, 10:23 AM
Lowry never had the freedom of being the number 1 guy, or the minutes of one.
Because derozan isn't a great 3 point shooter Lowry was asked to shoot way more of them. His career averages are irrelevant, he's made 1.5 a game or more the last 4 years in less minutes.
Per 36 he's been around 2 a game, it's not a fluke, he's just good.

And to say Tyson wasn't that great during the 54 win season is completely wrong. He had a way higher win share/ per 48 than even melo

a career 35% 3pt shooter all of a sudden more than DOUBLES his makes and shoots 38% and hits more 3's than even Kevin Durant.

Call it what you want, but he's unlikely to repeat that is what i'm saying, and injuries are always a concern, will he play 80 games again? He hadn't played that many games since his 2nd year in the league.

Win share isn't an end all be all stat... he was good, but great? That's a reach, that NY team in general just played really well... hence going 16-3 when Tyson went down.

2-ONE-5
08-19-2014, 10:25 AM
You put a healthy Brook Lopez, the Nets beat the Raps in 6.

The raps aren't that better than the Nets or Knicks.

there is no such thing as a healthy Lopez anymore and you also dont know the result had he played.

GiantsSwaGG
08-19-2014, 10:27 AM
there is no such thing as a healthy Lopez anymore and you also dont know the result had he played.

If Lowry can play a full season at some point in his career, I expect the same for Lopez. And the results would have been the Nets winning in 6 maybe less. Garnett was trash in that series

2-ONE-5
08-19-2014, 10:30 AM
big difference in a guy like Lowry staying healthy compared to a 7 footer with foot or ankle injuries or whatever and you know that

Captain Moroni
08-19-2014, 10:46 AM
No the Knicks are not going to win 54 games this year. They will be a 4-5 seed. If they can move Bargs or Stat at the deadline.....they could be a solid playoff team.

NYKnickFanatic
08-19-2014, 11:17 AM
Lowry never had the freedom of being the number 1 guy, or the minutes of one.
Because derozan isn't a great 3 point shooter Lowry was asked to shoot way more of them. His career averages are irrelevant, he's made 1.5 a game or more the last 4 years in less minutes.
Per 36 he's been around 2 a game, it's not a fluke, he's just good.

And to say Tyson wasn't that great during the 54 win season is completely wrong. He had a way higher win share/ per 48 than even melo

Tyson was a big reason why we won 54 games that year, no doubt about it.

But during the playoffs, he sucked. Why? Injuries.

D-Block21-Chito
08-19-2014, 11:20 AM
No the Knicks are not going to win 54 games this year. They will be a 4-5 seed. If they can move Bargs or Stat at the deadline.....they could be a solid playoff team.

1) Bulls
2) Cavs
3) Raptors
4) Wizards
5) Miami
6) Hornets

5 Percent chance Knicks can enter that list. IMHO

NYKnickFanatic
08-19-2014, 11:26 AM
1) Bulls
2) Cavs
3) Raptors
4) Wizards
5) Miami
6) Hornets

5 Percent chance Knicks can enter that list. IMHO

Nets and Raptors were better teams last year, yes I get that. But there is no guarantee they are winning the division. Atlantic division is up for grabs. There is no power house team in there.

dalton749
08-19-2014, 11:26 AM
Did you also factor in he was in a contract year? Players usual have career years in a contract year

Lowrys situation was a lot more than just a contract year.
We're talking about one of the most competitive guys in the league, who is the vocal leader of the team and he's taken to that role. He's in better shape right now then he was last year and it's clear he wasn't satisfied with last years finish.
Derozan is one of the hardest workers in the league and has set the example this offseason for his teammates, who he has taken under his wing.
Overall it's one of the best locker rooms in the league, everyone has bought into it which is why us raptors fans are so optimistic. These guys all enjoy playing with each other and have been training together more than any team I've ever seen. There not about to go out and win a championship, but there's a lot more going on in raptorland than those south of the border have been exposed to.
Also melo was in a contract year, should we say the same thing about him? No

GiantsSwaGG
08-19-2014, 11:35 AM
Lowrys situation was a lot more than just a contract year.
We're talking about one of the most competitive guys in the league, who is the vocal leader of the team and he's taken to that role. He's in better shape right now then he was last year and it's clear he wasn't satisfied with last years finish.
Derozan is one of the hardest workers in the league and has set the example this offseason for his teammates, who he has taken under his wing.
Overall it's one of the best locker rooms in the league, everyone has bought into it which is why us raptors fans are so optimistic. These guys all enjoy playing with each other and have been training together more than any team I've ever seen. There not about to go out and win a championship, but there's a lot more going on in raptorland than those south of the border have been exposed to.
Also melo was in a contract year, should we say the same thing about him? No

lol hell yeah. He had his best season last year (despite not making the playoffs). It's a known fact players usual have their best years in contract years. I'm not saying he isn't competitive let alone a go player but to expect an all star performance again is risky. His best season of his career statistically wasn't even that great. I mean Raymond Felton 2012 and 2010 season were similar to Lowrys.

nycericanguy
08-19-2014, 11:38 AM
Lowrys situation was a lot more than just a contract year.
We're talking about one of the most competitive guys in the league, who is the vocal leader of the team and he's taken to that role. He's in better shape right now then he was last year and it's clear he wasn't satisfied with last years finish.
Derozan is one of the hardest workers in the league and has set the example this offseason for his teammates, who he has taken under his wing.
Overall it's one of the best locker rooms in the league, everyone has bought into it which is why us raptors fans are so optimistic. These guys all enjoy playing with each other and have been training together more than any team I've ever seen. There not about to go out and win a championship, but there's a lot more going on in raptorland than those south of the border have been exposed to.
Also melo was in a contract year, should we say the same thing about him? No

Melo's been paid a ton already and he's always been very consistent.

Lowry on the other hand had yet to be really paid big time, so money was probably much more of a motivating factor, and his two best seasons have been in contract years.

No one is saying TOR is going to be bad, just things that should be considered. A LOT went right for TOR last year to win 48 games, including the east being injury riddled and awful. Just like A LOT went right for NY when they won 54 games... JR had a career year that year.

But things don't always go right for teams like that, that's why TOR shouldn't be considered a lock to win the division. But it's almost as if some TOR fans are mad because other teams feel they have a chance... This isn't the '98 Bulls here, TOR is very beatable.

D-Block21-Chito
08-19-2014, 11:40 AM
Nets and Raptors were better teams last year, yes I get that. But there is no guarantee they are winning the division. Atlantic division is up for grabs. There is no power house team in there.

I agree to disagree I guess. I really don't see how the raptors are worse off.... They seem to only be getting better same to say about the wizads and hornets. Also time will only tell with the Nets but Plumlee will be much better/ is already better and if Brook and Deron are healthy Knicks are screwed. Curry had many ankle problems as well had surgery and is now a beast. I would expect something similar for Deron.

D-Block21-Chito
08-19-2014, 11:41 AM
That being said I'm not going to argue in Brooklyn's favor or give them any crowns.. I was just stating my opinion on how hard it will be for Kicks to be a top 6 team.

dalton749
08-19-2014, 11:46 AM
lol hell yeah. He had his best season last year (despite not making the playoffs). It's a known fact players usual have their best years in contract years. I'm not saying he isn't competitive let alone a go player but to expect an all star performance again is risky. His best season of his career statistically wasn't even that great. I mean Raymond Felton 2012 and 2010 season were similar to Lowrys.

If you check the advanced stats you will see that comparison isn't even close. He's been an above average player for years, and was getting allstar consideration in Houston before getting some rare, deadly stomachs infection that derailed his season, and the majority of the next due to being 20 pounds over weight. His health issues have been a lot different than someone like brook Lopez who has had multiple foot problems now

2-ONE-5
08-19-2014, 12:01 PM
I agree to disagree I guess. I really don't see how the raptors are worse off.... They seem to only be getting better same to say about the wizads and hornets. Also time will only tell with the Nets but Plumlee will be much better/ is already better and if Brook and Deron are healthy Knicks are screwed. Curry had many ankle problems as well had surgery and is now a beast. I would expect something similar for Deron.

except Williams is a lot heavier than Curry and 4 years older. not to mention has been on a bit of a decline since arriving to the Nets.

NYKnickFanatic
08-19-2014, 12:30 PM
I agree to disagree I guess. I really don't see how the raptors are worse off.... They seem to only be getting better same to say about the wizads and hornets. Also time will only tell with the Nets but Plumlee will be much better/ is already better and if Brook and Deron are healthy Knicks are screwed. Curry had many ankle problems as well had surgery and is now a beast. I would expect something similar for Deron.

Please don't compare Steph Curry and Deron Williams.

Curry isn't 30 years old, 200+ pounds...

NYKnickFanatic
08-19-2014, 12:35 PM
That being said I'm not going to argue in Brooklyn's favor or give them any crowns.. I was just stating my opinion on how hard it will be for Kicks to be a top 6 team.

The East has definitely gotten better, but who knows how the Knicks will play.
No one knows how the East will turn out. Key injuries happen every year and play huge roles in standings.
Plus the Knicks now have a system, instead of just running ISO every single play. Let's see how it works out.

I'm not saying the Knicks will make or miss the playoffs. I'm not saying they will win the division. No one knows what will happen.

Crackadalic
08-19-2014, 01:20 PM
The only team I can say with confidence that a atlantic team was a lock to win it was the boston celtics from 2008-2012. I haven't seen another team that much better from it's division rivals since.

Like I said the talent level between TOR/NY/BK isn't so much different that you can say there is a "lock" team to win it.

NY was 2-2 against the Raps with the first two games back to back and without our best player playing in 3 of the 4 games

Knicks were 3-1 against BK

Nets were 2-2 against the raps and won against them in the playoffs

The Raps are winning the division because of no injuries and better chemistry but let's not say the talent level is that much greater then the Knicks and Nets

sixers247
08-19-2014, 01:50 PM
Doesn't matter it is the worst division in basketball.

east fb knicks
08-19-2014, 03:01 PM
Doesn't matter it is the worst division in basketball.

that's kinda why I said my knicks could win it with 45 :shrug:

east fb knicks
08-19-2014, 03:05 PM
Melo's been paid a ton already and he's always been very consistent.

Lowry on the other hand had yet to be really paid big time, so money was probably much more of a motivating factor, and his two best seasons have been in contract years.

No one is saying TOR is going to be bad, just things that should be considered. A LOT went right for TOR last year to win 48 games, including the east being injury riddled and awful. Just like A LOT went right for NY when they won 54 games... JR had a career year that year.

But things don't always go right for teams like that, that's why TOR shouldn't be considered a lock to win the division. But it's almost as if some TOR fans are mad because other teams feel they have a chance... This isn't the '98 Bulls here, TOR is very beatable.

:laugh:

east fb knicks
08-19-2014, 03:10 PM
I agree to disagree I guess. I really don't see how the raptors are worse off.... They seem to only be getting better same to say about the wizads and hornets. Also time will only tell with the Nets but Plumlee will be much better/ is already better and if Brook and Deron are healthy Knicks are screwed. Curry had many ankle problems as well had surgery and is now a beast. I would expect something similar for Deron.

come on bro did you really just compare dwill's injuries to curry:facepalm:

curry was in his early 20's when he had ankle problems dwill has had problems with his ankles for years and he just recently had surgery on both ankles at the age of 30 his body is breaking down he's done bro

Jamiecballer
08-19-2014, 10:27 PM
Raptors were healthy because they have young, in shape, typically healthy players who are improving and nearing or entering their primes. Nets dont have that, Knicks dont have that and both have new coaches

raptors

nets
knicks
Agreed, sorta. Although I think its more like
Raptors

Nets

Knicks

Punk
08-20-2014, 01:49 AM
come on bro did you really just compare dwill's injuries to curry:facepalm:

curry was in his early 20's when he had ankle problems dwill has had problems with his ankles for years and he just recently had surgery on both ankles at the age of 30 his body is breaking down he's done bro
Years? He had ankle problems after 2012. He re-injured it during an off-season gymnastics workout. Deron is within his prime and has sustained no other serious injuries. So, he's not 'done'.

If Williams replicates his 2012/13 season when he averaged 19 points & 7 assists with a 20.3 PER in 74 games, the Nets will easily be a serious contender to win the Division. Hell, Deron at his worst still helped his team to the semifinals.

DarkKnight
08-20-2014, 02:25 AM
Deron is a shadow of himself, and thats not good for the Nets. Brook is the key if he's healthy, and thats a big If. Should be a fun year NBA , NFL couldn't come fast enough

FriedTofuz
08-20-2014, 03:54 AM
I think it`s unfair to constantly say that toronto was the atlantic division champs because of good health, chemistry, and contract years. well you know what, good health ahd chemistry arent that easy to have, there`s a reason why good teams like can maintain both health and chemistry and that`s why they succeed. To constnatly knock on health and chemistry as if it was all luck, that`s not true. Are you saying the spurs are lucky to have chemistry and to be healthy? The spurs bring in players to fit their system, and their coaching management and training staff helps a lot which is why guys like tim duncan can still perform at a championship contending level. So to bash toronto like chemistry and health are no big deals, then you're wrong, if it was so easy to have these things, then everyone would. Chemistry and health are a strength of toronto.

As for what people have been saying, yes there is no powerhouse unlike the 2008 boston celtics in the atlantic division. It's certainly up for grabs, but it's likely going to be the chances in this order:

Toronto

BK

NY

Munkeysuit
08-20-2014, 04:29 AM
No, but they will make the playoffs.

Punk
08-20-2014, 04:52 PM
I think it`s unfair to constantly say that toronto was the atlantic division champs because of good health, chemistry, and contract years. well you know what, good health ahd chemistry arent that easy to have, there`s a reason why good teams like can maintain both health and chemistry and that`s why they succeed. To constnatly knock on health and chemistry as if it was all luck, that`s not true. Are you saying the spurs are lucky to have chemistry and to be healthy? The spurs bring in players to fit their system, and their coaching management and training staff helps a lot which is why guys like tim duncan can still perform at a championship contending level. So to bash toronto like chemistry and health are no big deals, then you're wrong, if it was so easy to have these things, then everyone would. Chemistry and health are a strength of toronto.

As for what people have been saying, yes there is no powerhouse unlike the 2008 boston celtics in the atlantic division. It's certainly up for grabs, but it's likely going to be the chances in this order:

Toronto

BK

NY

It's more of the fact, they stumbled upon chemistry and a good overall season. They weren't expected to make the playoffs last season, they were bad for about two months in before trading Gay and then they somehow go 35-17 after acquiring a bunch of mediocre role players. Even their GM considered trading Lowry to NY during their resurgence. All of this is going on while Rose is out, Lopez is out, Horford is out, etc. It looks like luck from that aspect. It may not be true but It can go the opposite way quickly when there is still a possibility it may not be sustainable success.

mike_noodles
08-20-2014, 05:14 PM
It's more of the fact, they stumbled upon chemistry and a good overall season. They weren't expected to make the playoffs last season, they were bad for about two months in before trading Gay and then they somehow go 35-17 after acquiring a bunch of mediocre role players. Even their GM considered trading Lowry to NY during their resurgence. All of this is going on while Rose is out, Lopez is out, Horford is out, etc. It looks like luck from that aspect. It may not be true but It can go the opposite way quickly when there is still a possibility it may not be sustainable success.

You could say that about any team the first year they have success. And funny enough, you know which team comes to mind as having done that is the 12-13 Knicks.

Teufelshunde4
08-20-2014, 05:47 PM
Phil jakson's presence will just make the knicks never miss and allow calderon, bargs, amare and THJR to all play defense. Dont underestimate phil, he won 11 rings, he can make the knicks contenders immediately.

Phil won 11 rings because he frequently had the top talent in the NBA.. That helped a ton.. There is a distinct difference in building a team and coaching a team. Phil can coach...

Pierzynski4Prez
08-20-2014, 06:07 PM
Only on PSD does the amount of times you hit Enter between team names define how good said team is.

LongIslandIcedZ
08-20-2014, 06:08 PM
Only on PSD does the amount of times you hit Enter between team names define how good said team is.

This
Is
My





Favorite

bucketss
08-20-2014, 10:10 PM
according to psd raptors have two players who are top 5 at their position, but regardless they're still getting slept on as a team.

SPURSFAN1
08-20-2014, 10:12 PM
according to psd raptors have two players who are top 5 at their position, but regardless they're still getting slept on as a team.

Raptors have no one in the top 5 in their positions. WTF?

bucketss
08-20-2014, 10:16 PM
Raptors have no one in the top 5 in their positions. WTF?

are you agreeing or disagreeing?

SPURSFAN1
08-20-2014, 10:17 PM
are you agreeing or disagreeing?

I'm saying they don't have anyone in the top 5 in their positions.

bucketss
08-20-2014, 10:20 PM
I'm saying they don't have anyone in the top 5 in their positions.

derozan, lowry.

SPURSFAN1
08-20-2014, 10:22 PM
derozan, lowry.

:laugh:

GiantsSwaGG
08-20-2014, 10:26 PM
Lowry a top 5 PG :laugh:

SPURSFAN1
08-20-2014, 10:29 PM
Houston supposedly has the best SG and center in the NBA and can't get out of the first round.
Raptors have no top 5 players in their positions and we're supposed to be scared of them?

dalton749
08-20-2014, 10:35 PM
Houston supposedly has the best SG and center in the NBA and can't get out of the first round.
Raptors have no top 5 players in their positions and we're supposed to be scared of them?

raps will be the spurs of the north in a few years
so keep sleeping on them

SPURSFAN1
08-20-2014, 10:37 PM
raps will be the spurs of the north in a few years
so keep sleeping on them

Just no bro. I give that title to the hawks. They actually play like the spurs.

dalton749
08-20-2014, 10:43 PM
Just no bro. I give that title to the hawks. They actually play like the spurs.

ok. but youre wrong

SPURSFAN1
08-20-2014, 10:45 PM
ok. but youre wrong

cool beans then.

bucketss
08-20-2014, 10:46 PM
Lowry a top 5 PG :laugh:

name 5 better, i'll wait.

SPURSFAN1
08-20-2014, 10:50 PM
name 5 better, i'll wait.

Tony
CP3
Westbrook
Lillard
Stephen
(Rose) if healthy this year

Easy bro.

dalton749
08-20-2014, 10:51 PM
name 5 better, i'll wait.

paul
curry
rose
westbrook
parker

they will be better next year

and likely
wall
lillard

as well, due to improvements from the rest of the team lowry wont be relied upon as much
but last year he was top 5

GiantsSwaGG
08-20-2014, 10:52 PM
name 5 better, i'll wait.

Paul
Curry
Westbrook
Parker
Lillard
Gragic
Wall

Rose (if healthy would be top 5)

Need anymore?

dalton749
08-20-2014, 10:54 PM
name 5 better, i'll wait.

its in your best interest to say that you meant last year haha

bucketss
08-20-2014, 10:56 PM
Paul
Curry
Westbrook
Parker
Lillard
Gragic
Wall

Rose (if healthy would be top 5)

Need anymore?

bolded, NO.well rose i excluded because he hasn't been playing for awhile, lowry was a top 5 pg this past year.

GiantsSwaGG
08-20-2014, 10:59 PM
bolded, NO.well rose i excluded because he hasn't been playing for awhile, lowry was a top 5 pg this past year.

Lol Gragic, Lillard are clearly better than Lowry stop it

SPURSFAN1
08-20-2014, 11:01 PM
Lillard took a blazers team to a second round birth and a 54win team in the west. Please explain how lowry is better?

dalton749
08-20-2014, 11:09 PM
Lillard took a blazers team to a second round birth and a 54win team in the west. Please explain how lowry is better?

he plays defense
lillard got open for the last shot of the series and made it, dwayne casey drew up the play for the wrong side of the court on the last play, and lowry got blocked because the players were confused
that is in no way any indication (blazers had more talent overall)

but next year lowry will fall out of the top 10 dont worry
between vasquez, lou williams, and derozan who was just used as the primary ball handler of team usa, lowry will be playing a lot more off ball

bucketss
08-20-2014, 11:20 PM
Lillard took a blazers team to a second round birth and a 54win team in the west. Please explain how lowry is better?

you're right, aldridge had nothing to do with it, it was all lillard.

BHF
08-21-2014, 12:11 AM
Lol Gragic, Lillard are clearly better than Lowry stop it

You cant even spell Dragic yet you claim to know what you are talking about. How can anyone take your seriously?

SPURSFAN1
08-21-2014, 12:14 AM
You cant even spell Dragic yet you claim to know what you are talking about. How can anyone take your seriously?

But he's right though. :confused:

GiantsSwaGG
08-21-2014, 12:15 AM
You cant even spell Dragic yet you claim to know what you are talking about. How can anyone take your seriously?

After your recent ban and your display of homerism in certain threads, this whole board doesn't take you serious.

Stay class kid

BHF
08-21-2014, 12:30 AM
But he's right though. :confused:

No he is not.

SPURSFAN1
08-21-2014, 12:32 AM
No he is not.

Let's pretend he is the 5th best PG in the league. The other 6-10 are in the same tier as him. Doesn't change much.

BHF
08-21-2014, 12:38 AM
Let's pretend he is the 5th best PG in the league. The other 6-10 are in the same tier as him. Doesn't change much.

You don't need to pretend because he was the 5th best pg least season, not saying he will be again because chances are Wall/Lillard/Irving are all going to get better and i think Lowry is what he is at this point.