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View Full Version : Kobe says Cleveland making same mistake Charlotte made with him



nickdymez
08-15-2014, 12:23 PM
http://www.slamonline.com/nba/kobe-bryant-andrew-wiggins-trade-cleveland-making-mistake/

In reference to Wiggins trade. The difference is the Lakers werent contenders. Nor Charlotte.

nycericanguy
08-15-2014, 12:35 PM
Love is better than Vlade, but I do think the trade is a mistake for CLE.

Love is injury prone and a poor defender. CLE has enough offense with LBJ, Irving and Waiters.

Wiggins could be a star two way player for 10-12 years and could end up being better than Love anyway... and Bennett is still a good prospect.

They are also losing depth.

If Wiggins pans out CLE could have been in a position to be dominant for a long time, even after LBJ retires.

Heatcheck
08-15-2014, 12:48 PM
Love is better than Vlade, but I do think the trade is a mistake for CLE.

Love is injury prone and a poor defender. CLE has enough offense with LBJ, Irving and Waiters.

Wiggins could be a star two way player for 10-12 years and could end up being better than Love anyway... and Bennett is still a good prospect.

They are also losing depth.

If Wiggins pans out CLE could have been in a position to be dominant for a long time, even after LBJ retires.

I agree with wiggins potential, but Lebron is 30 with a lot of mileage. I think the most prudent move for them is to go for the already allstar player. Loves defense is worrisome, but so is Irvings, so theyd need more effort from everyone. itd be a shame if they have another Hickson-Amare scenario if Wiggins doesn't pan out.

D-Leethal
08-15-2014, 12:48 PM
I don't think LeBron goes there without a winky wink that Love is on the way. So you kind of have to evaluate the decision that way.

D-Leethal
08-15-2014, 12:49 PM
For those who want to contest the winky wink, do you honestly think Love mentioning young prospects Irving and Waiters while leaving out the last 2 years #1 picks was a coincidence?

Heatcheck
08-15-2014, 12:50 PM
And charlotte did the best they could considering Kobe said he wouldn't play there so don't draft him.
You know you forced your way out, its been known for years, just keep your mouth shut.

nycericanguy
08-15-2014, 12:52 PM
I was also looking forward to seeing LBJ with a group of young talented players, now it's shaping up to be another super team around Lebron.

lamzoka
08-15-2014, 12:53 PM
The difference here is Kobe forced his way out of charlotte, and Love is a million times better than Divac

Hawkeye15
08-15-2014, 01:17 PM
For the next 5 years, Cleveland made the right decision. For the 5 after that, obviously not.

It's all about LeBron's window.

Hawkeye15
08-15-2014, 01:18 PM
Love is better than Vlade, but I do think the trade is a mistake for CLE.

Love is injury prone and a poor defender. CLE has enough offense with LBJ, Irving and Waiters.

Wiggins could be a star two way player for 10-12 years and could end up being better than Love anyway... and Bennett is still a good prospect.

They are also losing depth.

If Wiggins pans out CLE could have been in a position to be dominant for a long time, even after LBJ retires.

Wiggins is all potential. If you are betting, you bet the under that he will be as good as Love. Only so many players are top 5-8 players through their primes.

Dade County
08-15-2014, 01:24 PM
He just wants Love in L.A


And we all know that Kobe muscled his way to L.A (not publicly though)

Burkey3472
08-15-2014, 01:38 PM
They are trying to win now with Love and Wiggins is far from a sure thing. If Wiggins turns out to be a multiple all star type player and the Cavs end up not winning a title then you can say it was a major mistake. The Cavs should win within the next 5 years though with a prime Lebron, a prime Love, and a prime Kyrie. Might not happen right away but it will eventually happen (unless a major injury occurs).

bucketss
08-15-2014, 01:41 PM
yeah right kobe, we all know you forced your way to LA - i hate how he tries to deny it.

koreancabbage
08-15-2014, 01:44 PM
They are trying to win now with Love and Wiggins is far from a sure thing. If Wiggins turns out to be a multiple all star type player and the Cavs end up not winning a title then you can say it was a major mistake. The Cavs should win within the next 5 years though with a prime Lebron, a prime Love, and a prime Kyrie. Might not happen right away but it will eventually happen (unless a major injury occurs).

cept Irving hasn't reached his prime yet and Love is about to enter his. Thats the scary part. Irving has the ability to become a superstar as well - he has the tools and we've seen parts of it over the last two seasons on what he can do on the court. Wiggins is like a 4-6 year wait into his prime.

beasted86
08-15-2014, 01:54 PM
Wiggins is all potential. If you are betting, you bet the under that he will be as good as Love. Only so many players are top 5-8 players through their primes.

Though with the caveat you even believe Love is that good...

Sadds The Gr8
08-15-2014, 01:57 PM
Didn't Kobe demand out of Charlotte?

WITZ
08-15-2014, 01:58 PM
yeah right kobe, we all know you forced your way to LA - i hate how he tries to deny it.

:laugh2: Right. Yeah Kobe this is totally the same.




"In 1996, Bryant, a teenager exiting high school for the N.B.A., was not the first pick, but he exuded self-importance when he refused to play anywhere but Hollywood.

With the 13th selection, with a deal to trade Bryant to Los Angeles in pocket, Charlotte chose him. But there was a point where it looked as if the Lakers’ Vlade Divac would retire rather than take part in a trade that would send him to Charlotte for Bryant.

Couldn’t Bryant be a Hornet? Could he grow to love Southern sweet tea?

“That is an impossibility,” Bryant’s agent, Arn Tellem, said at the time. “There are no ifs. It would not happen. He is going to be a Laker, and that’s the only team he’s playing for.”

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/kobe-bryant-is-trying-to-re-write-history-but-he-cant-fool-the-internet/

jer3miah
08-15-2014, 02:23 PM
Here is my theory.....How long did the Big 3 last in Miami? (3 years, and that was in a tax free state). Kevin Love IS better than Wiggins, Bennett, and a late 1st pick. Wiggins will be a very good player at a minimum. If you don't pull the trigger on the trade then you have roster/cap flexibilty AND keep Irving for 5 years, Wiggins for 5-6 years, Lebron for LIFE and a whole bunch of good role players. That team can gain championships in the East....

nickdymez
08-15-2014, 02:39 PM
Here is my theory.....How long did the Big 3 last in Miami? (3 years, and that was in a tax free state). Kevin Love IS better than Wiggins, Bennett, and a late 1st pick. Wiggins will be a very good player at a minimum. If you don't pull the trigger on the trade then you have roster/cap flexibilty AND keep Irving for 5 years, Wiggins for 5-6 years, Lebron for LIFE and a whole bunch of good role players. That team can gain championships in the East....
I said this and everyone here on psd laughed at me. LeBron knows he needs a super team to win. He could have led a team with him, Irving, waiters, Bennet, Thompson, Wiggins, to a eastern conference tittle.

misteraday
08-15-2014, 02:44 PM
The difference here is Kobe forced his way out of charlotte, and Love is a million times better than Divac

Better yes. A million times? Let have him play ONE playoff game until we go crazy. Vlade was a star who would have won multiple championships if it wasn't for Shaq. Dismissing him is a little ignorant unless you are comfortable living in a world of hype instead of reality.

KnicksorBust
08-15-2014, 02:59 PM
He can say what he wants but he is dead wrong.

Vinylman
08-15-2014, 03:04 PM
Kobe didn't force himself out of charlotte... his agents told all GM's that he would only sign in LA or sit out the 3 years and play overseas or go to college (he was only 17)... remember, the waiting period was not 7 years like it is now and there was no cap on what a team could pay him. They cut a deal to with Charlotte because they were the first to bite on an offer. The team the Lakers were concerned about were the knicks who were picking 21 as the Lakers pick was 24....

The trade was set up the day before the draft so Charlotte never was going to sign him let alone offer him a contract....

is the kobe/ wiggins situation the same... not really

I am pretty sure what kobe is driving at is you don't trade a guy he perceives has his level of talent for a Kevin Love...

It doesn't matter though... time will tell who was right...

jer3miah
08-15-2014, 03:09 PM
I said this and everyone here on psd laughed at me. LeBron knows he needs a super team to win. He could have led a team with him, Irving, waiters, Bennet, Thompson, Wiggins, to a eastern conference tittle. I was expecting everyone to laugh. But I think we looked at his previous Cavs team that got so far and this one is sooo much better.

Blah Blah Blah
08-15-2014, 03:28 PM
Didn't Kobe demand out of Charlotte?

yes. He only wanted to play for the Lakers.

nickdymez
08-15-2014, 04:28 PM
He can say what he wants but he is dead wrong.
Lol, and your right?

bucketss
08-15-2014, 04:38 PM
I said this and everyone here on psd laughed at me. LeBron knows he needs a super team to win. He could have led a team with him, Irving, waiters, Bennet, Thompson, Wiggins, to a eastern conference tittle.

ecf title? is that what teams play for LOL

Confusious
08-15-2014, 04:39 PM
The difference is that Charlotte didn't get a perennial all-star back. They got Vlade Divac in exchange for Bryant. Look, I get what Kobe is saying. But it's not the same thing. So he can either get educated, or keep his mouth shut.

We're giving up Wiggins, but getting LOVE. Who is going to sign long-term... if you think it's the same thing, I have a bridge to sell you...

nickdymez
08-15-2014, 04:40 PM
ecf title? is that what teams play for LOL
No. But I'm not a blind LeBron lover. So I'm not going to say they could beat a western conference team with that roster. I'm. Sure you saw what happened last year right? LeBron is 2-3 in the finals. I'm never gonna say he's a lock to win, because he's lost more than he's won.

Sandman
08-15-2014, 04:41 PM
For the next 5 years, Cleveland made the right decision. For the 5 after that, obviously not.

It's all about LeBron's window.

It won't take 5 years to figure out who Wiggins is

I would say they made the right move for 14-15 and its up in the air after that

bucketss
08-15-2014, 04:42 PM
No. But I'm not a blind LeBron lover. So I'm not going to say they could beat a western conference team with that roster. I'm. Sure you saw what happened last year right? LeBron is 2-3 in the finals. I'm never gonna say he's a lock to win, because he's lost more than he's won.

and one of those years was when he was a 23 year old kid playing with scrubs.

nickdymez
08-15-2014, 04:44 PM
and one of those years was when he was a 23 year old kid playing with scrubs.
Oh an excuse.

JordansBulls
08-15-2014, 04:44 PM
They are correct, Cleveland should have traded Lebron to Minnesota for Kevin Love as a big F to him for leaving in the first place.

Sandman
08-15-2014, 04:47 PM
They are correct, Cleveland should have traded Lebron to Minnesota for Kevin Love as a big F to him for leaving in the first place.

:laugh::laugh:

xnick5757
08-15-2014, 04:47 PM
Wiggins is all potential. If you are betting, you bet the under that he will be as good as Love. Only so many players are top 5-8 players through their primes.

X2


Love is at worst a top 10 player in the league today, and is still only 25. So many prospects that are top picks bust/don't live anywhere up to their expectations (just looking at top 3 picks from 2000-2009)

Stromile Swift - #2, 2000
Darius Miles - #3, 2000
Kwame Brown - #1, 2001
Jay Williams - #2, 2002
Darko Miličić - #2, 2003
Emeka Okafor - #2, 2004
Ben Gordon - #3, 2004
Marvin Williams - #2, 2005
Andrea Bargnani - #1, 2006
Adam Morrison - #3, 2006
Greg Oden - #1, 2007
Michael Beasley - #2, 2008
O. J. Mayo - #3, 2008
Hasheem Thabeet - #2, 2009

Sandman
08-15-2014, 04:49 PM
X2


Love is at worst a top 10 player in the league today, and is still only 25. So many prospects that are top picks bust/don't live anywhere up to their expectations (just looking at top 3 picks from 2000-2009)

Stromile Swift - #2, 2000
Darius Miles - #3, 2000
Kwame Brown - #1, 2001
Jay Williams - #2, 2002
Darko Miličić - #2, 2003
Emeka Okafor - #2, 2004
Ben Gordon - #3, 2004
Marvin Williams - #2, 2005
Andrea Bargnani - #1, 2006
Adam Morrison - #3, 2006
Greg Oden - #1, 2007
Michael Beasley - #2, 2008
O. J. Mayo - #3, 2008
Hasheem Thabeet - #2, 2009

bollocks, no two top 3 picks are the same especially over multiple seasons

Wiggins is the best prospect to come out in a while

can't compare him to ****ing ADAM MORRISON and say "hey luck of the draw"

bucketss
08-15-2014, 04:51 PM
Oh an excuse.

i guess lebron should have lost in the Ecf like he was suppose to, or maybe if he got upset in the first round than perhaps his finals record would look more pretty


They are correct, Cleveland should have traded Lebron to Minnesota for Kevin Love as a big F to him for leaving in the first place.

love wouldn't accept that trade, he said no to the cavs before lebron got here, also did lebron even sign a the contract yet?

xnick5757
08-15-2014, 04:53 PM
bollocks, no two top 3 picks are the same especially over multiple seasons

Wiggins is the best prospect to come out in a while

can't compare him to ****ing ADAM MORRISON and say "hey luck of the draw"

Adam Morrison was a beast in college. Better career than Wiggins had.

28.1 PPG on a .496 FG%/.428 3PT%/.772 FT%

First Team Consensus All-American
USBWA Player of the Year
Naismith Award

Sandman
08-15-2014, 05:00 PM
Adam Morrison was a beast in college. Better career than Wiggins had.

28.1 PPG on a .496 FG%/.428 3PT%/.772 FT%


First Team Consensus All-American
USBWA Player of the Year
Naismith Award

You want to use college stats instead?

Ugh go back to draft position. College stats can't predict anything either.

Fact of the matter is, you throw all 15 or so of those guys into the same draft and the only one that gets chosen over Wiggins is MAYBE Oden.

Who swept the rest of the awards Morrison did not win that year?

smith&wesson
08-15-2014, 05:09 PM
X2


Love is at worst a top 10 player in the league today, and is still only 25. So many prospects that are top picks bust/don't live anywhere up to their expectations (just looking at top 3 picks from 2000-2009)

Stromile Swift - #2, 2000
Darius Miles - #3, 2000
Kwame Brown - #1, 2001
Jay Williams - #2, 2002
Darko Miličić - #2, 2003
Emeka Okafor - #2, 2004
Ben Gordon - #3, 2004
Marvin Williams - #2, 2005
Andrea Bargnani - #1, 2006
Adam Morrison - #3, 2006
Greg Oden - #1, 2007
Michael Beasley - #2, 2008
O. J. Mayo - #3, 2008
Hasheem Thabeet - #2, 2009

darius miles was no bust, he just had a career changing injury. thats just bad luck. happens to many.

xnick5757
08-15-2014, 05:12 PM
You want to use college stats instead?

Ugh go back to draft position. College stats can't predict anything either.

Fact of the matter is, you throw all 15 or so of those guys into the same draft and the only one that gets chosen over Wiggins is MAYBE Oden.

Who swept the rest of the awards Morrison did not win that year?

Darko and Kwame probably get taken over Wiggins as well. Some scouts recommended that Darko be taken over LeBron in that 2003 draft (lol)

Confusious
08-15-2014, 05:20 PM
They are correct, Cleveland should have traded Lebron to Minnesota for Kevin Love as a big F to him for leaving in the first place.
This might be your best post ever. Good job.

Sandman
08-15-2014, 05:53 PM
Darko and Kwame probably get taken over Wiggins as well. Some scouts recommended that Darko be taken over LeBron in that 2003 draft (lol)

Kwame was a default pick and there was no way Cleveland wasn't taking LeBron

Still, the fact is you can't possibly say Wiggins' odds are the same as the rest of those players on the list.

Those 15 guys are not close to the reason you trade Wiggins

IndyRealist
08-15-2014, 06:54 PM
And charlotte did the best they could considering Kobe said he wouldn't play there so don't draft him.
You know you forced your way out, its been known for years, just keep your mouth shut.

It's like he thinks that if he keeps saying it, that somehow people will forget.

JasonJohnHorn
08-15-2014, 07:55 PM
If Cleveland has a chance to have a player that plays a level Kobe played at in years 1-3, and a Kevin Love for the next three years.... I take Love.


If Cleveland keep Wiggins, they may very well lose him in free agency like the Raptors lost McGrady.... then what is the point to not making the trade?


Also... Wiggins is the FIRST pick. Kobe was the first guard to come straight out of highschool and was a late lottery pick.... no guarantee he was going to work out. People always treat draft picks like that as if people KNEW.... Kobe was an arrogant teen who thought he was too good for college and when he got to the Lakers, he made a LOT of enemies with his gawd-awful shot selection and arrogance. At that point in his career, he has NO basis for that kind of arrogance.... sure, but the time he was 24 he was in the conversation for the best SG to ever wear a Laker's jerseys, but that first couple of years....


Bottom line... Love IS an franchise player. Wiggins MAY BECOME a franchise player, or he may become a bust.

Every GM with their head on straight should take what they KNOW to be an amazing player over what might be an amazing player, because.... well.... Kwambe Brown, Anthony Bennett, Derrick Williams, Hasheem Thabeat, Michael Beasley, Greg Oden, Marvin Williams, Darko Milicic, Jay Williams, Stromile Swift, and Michael Olowokanid..... and those are some some of the first or second picks since Tim Duncan was drafted.... how many of them panned out? That is a better than 25% failure rate with a top two pick.... and these are professional scouts..


When you HAVE a full house, you don't trade your cards in hoping for a straight flush.

Confusious
08-15-2014, 08:31 PM
If anything, this **** coming from Kobe just reiterates why I never liked the guy. You can have confidence all you want, but Kobe just always rubbed me as a smug, self righteous *******.

And I wonder if he'd be saying the same thing if Love was demanding to be traded to LA. Would he be so protective of Randle being moved in such a deal? Of course not. He's just being sensitive because his window is closing rapidly quickly.

Blitzace137
08-15-2014, 08:38 PM
Kevin Love is 25 years old, even if Wiggins turns into a super star I doubt Cleveland will regret the trade. Not to mention you need to be given some leeway when your a rookie so your allowed to make mistakes and grow from it. Wiggins will be allowed to do that in Minnesota, he would not be allowed to make too many mistakes in Cleveland since they turned into instant contenders once LeBron signed. Kobe is wrong, it's not the same situation. Wiggins is still very raw player being traded to Minny was a good career move for him.

Leftcoast_yg
08-15-2014, 08:55 PM
I find it hilarious that some of you posters say stuff like shut up kobe or tell him to keep his mouth shut. If kobe knew how you respond to his quotes you would crap your pants or be all on his nuts if he was in front of you. LOL

prodigy
08-15-2014, 10:28 PM
And charlotte did the best they could considering Kobe said he wouldn't play there so don't draft him.
You know you forced your way out, its been known for years, just keep your mouth shut.

Lmao right!!!! Kobe demanded a trade hahaha, he is a legit moron. Kobe is a goat, but might be the dumbest person alive after saying this.

vangrumpy
08-15-2014, 10:53 PM
Whether Kobe forced a trade is really meaningless to his overall point. He is pointing out that you don't trade a #1 pick with a ceiling like Wiggins. Love's a good player with some good stats, but Kobe's point is that Wiggins ceiling is much higher and it is possible that it will come back to bite Cleveland in the rear. In the long run, it might be better off for Wiggins to be paired up with Lebron...you have an athletic wing that can play d and be a true two-way player. Part of what made Miami so good was their d on the perimeter before Wade kind of broke down. Cleveland could already score with Kyrie, Waiters and Lebron. Anyone seeing Wiggins in summer league can see that he has tremendous talent. It's not like the Cavs couldn't have waited next year and try to get another free agent while keeping Wiggins...Wiggins will be on a cheaper rookie contract. Love's contract means that he has to pan out... if he goes down or doesn't fit as well as they thought, they're screwed.

Avenged
08-15-2014, 10:55 PM
They are correct, Cleveland should have traded Lebron to Minnesota for Kevin Love as a big F to him for leaving in the first place.

You are alive.

prodigy
08-16-2014, 12:03 AM
Whether Kobe forced a trade is really meaningless to his overall point. He is pointing out that you don't trade a #1 pick with a ceiling like Wiggins. Love's a good player with some good stats, but Kobe's point is that Wiggins ceiling is much higher and it is possible that it will come back to bite Cleveland in the rear. In the long run, it might be better off for Wiggins to be paired up with Lebron...you have an athletic wing that can play d and be a true two-way player. Part of what made Miami so good was their d on the perimeter before Wade kind of broke down. Cleveland could already score with Kyrie, Waiters and Lebron. Anyone seeing Wiggins in summer league can see that he has tremendous talent. It's not like the Cavs couldn't have waited next year and try to get another free agent while keeping Wiggins...Wiggins will be on a cheaper rookie contract. Love's contract means that he has to pan out... if he goes down or doesn't fit as well as they thought, they're screwed.

End of the day Wiggins is all potential love is proven. No way around that.

RLundi
08-16-2014, 01:05 AM
If Kobe were in any other situation, he'd be a marginally better version of Jerry Stackhouse.

He completely lucked out landing in LA. More power to him but doesn't need to speak on Cleveland's situation as a cautionary tale, as if a lot of his greatness isn't a result of which market he plays in.

Method28
08-16-2014, 02:14 AM
Kobe is such a douchebag. God I hate the way he carries himself.

Everyone knows he put the Hornets under the gun. *******.

Yanks All Day
08-16-2014, 08:26 AM
Cleveland didn't have the time to wait to see if Andrew Wiggins could develop into a superstar. They know they probably have 4-5 really amazing years left of LeBron's career. You have to do everything you can to maximize championship possibilities when you have it, because things happen and rings don't come around often. Kevin Love helps more now than Andrew Wiggins does.

mightybosstone
08-16-2014, 09:25 AM
For the next 5 years, Cleveland made the right decision. For the 5 after that, obviously not.

It's all about LeBron's window.

This. The other thing you have to consider is that a franchise like Cleveland has to keep its stars like Lebron and Wiggins happy. They don't have the luxury of being a larger market like LA, Chicago, New York, Boston or Miami. Suppose Wigigns takes a couple of years to develop and Cleveland doesn't win any titles in the meantime. Maybe Lebron leaves. Or suppose Lebron retires in 4-5 years (unlikely, but you never know) and Wiggins and/or Irving see a team with greener pastures. They could leave.

The best decision for the Cavs was to make the next five years their window to win a title. After that, Lebron is probably past his prime and there are way too many question marks. Love unquestionably is more likely to help you win a title in that window than Andrew Wiggins.

JasonJohnHorn
08-16-2014, 09:37 AM
If Kobe were in any other situation, he'd be a marginally better version of Jerry Stackhouse.

He completely lucked out landing in LA. More power to him but doesn't need to speak on Cleveland's situation as a cautionary tale, as if a lot of his greatness isn't a result of which market he plays in.


+1


He would certainly have been much better than Stackhouse, but he is VERY lucky to land in the situation he did. He could have very easily had a career trajectory like Vince Carter or Tracy McGrady where he played very well, but didn't win and then his 'me-first' attitude would have made him poison to other teams. As it stands, if he hadn't had Phil Jackson to handle the egos and maximize his talent, people would be comparing him to George Gervin and not Michael Jordan.

JasonJohnHorn
08-16-2014, 09:37 AM
I' pretty sure Kobe is just saying this $#!T so that the Cavs WON'T trade for Love and the Lakers can sign him next season.

JustinTime
08-16-2014, 09:49 AM
I was expecting everyone to laugh. But I think we looked at his previous Cavs team that got so far and this one is sooo much better.

I think James is worse now than when he was the last time he was in Cleveland. I really doubt Lebron could carry a team like he did back then.

JustinTime
08-16-2014, 09:52 AM
Adam Morrison was a beast in college. Better career than Wiggins had.

28.1 PPG on a .496 FG%/.428 3PT%/.772 FT%

First Team Consensus All-American
USBWA Player of the Year
Naismith Award

College literally means nothing in terms of NBA valuation.

JustinTime
08-16-2014, 09:54 AM
I' pretty sure Kobe is just saying this $#!T so that the Cavs WON'T trade for Love and the Lakers can sign him next season.

I'm pretty sure he's saying it so sometime down the road he'll be on Wiggins good side.

Vinylman
08-16-2014, 10:18 AM
so much ignorance in this thread on how the kobe/charlotte transaction happened.

I guess i shouldn't be surprised... it is PSD...

JustinTime
08-16-2014, 10:43 AM
It's funny Kobe should say this because Wiggins right now reminds me a lot of Kobe coming in.

c.c.
08-16-2014, 10:53 AM
I don't like Kobe Bryant

prodigy
08-16-2014, 04:43 PM
I was expecting everyone to laugh. But I think we looked at his previous Cavs team that got so far and this one is sooo much better.

I think James is worse now than when he was the last time he was in Cleveland. I really doubt Lebron could carry a team like he did back then.

I disagree. I have not seen any decline at all in his game. If anything his shooting has gotten better. On top of that he's a winner now and knows what it takes to win. He's a much better leader and recruiter also.

SILVER SEAVER
08-16-2014, 05:09 PM
That's like going back to old debate about Bowie being drafted over Jordan. Trust me if Portland knew that the Michael Jordan from that draft was going to turn into the greatest player ever, Drexler or not they would have selected him over Bowie. Charlotte had no idea Kobe was going to turn into an all-time great and if they did they certainly would not have traded him on draft night even if he said he didn't want to play there. And the Cavs have no idea how good Wiggins will be but for the Cavs sake Love better be everything they think he will be and more if Wiggins ends up turning into a great wing player on both sides of the ball. We will all look back on this trade if Love doesn't live up to the expectations that are expected of him playing alongside LeBron.

SILVER SEAVER
08-16-2014, 05:11 PM
I don't like Kobe Bryant

It's hard to fathom why a Rockets fans would hate Kobe Bean Bryant. lol

NBA_Starter
08-16-2014, 10:14 PM
You mean the "mistake" he forced Charlotte into by refusing to play for them? Two totally different situations.

Tony_Starks
08-16-2014, 10:17 PM
Cleveland blew it but you didn't really think Lebron was going there to gradually build a contender did you? It's Super Friends part II.

On the bright side, if they lose at least his apologist will have to be creative with the excuses....

Tony_Starks
08-16-2014, 10:24 PM
so much ignorance in this thread on how the kobe/charlotte transaction happened.

I guess i shouldn't be surprised... it is PSD...

Come on bro, you didn't hear? Kobe forced his way to LA. He threatened all those teams and made them pass on him. Forget what Kobe himself actually says, you think he knows more about what happened than PSD?

NBA_Starter
08-16-2014, 10:41 PM
Cleveland blew it but you didn't really think Lebron was going there to gradually build a contender did you? It's Super Friends part II.

On the bright side, if they lose at least his apologist will have to be creative with the excuses....

It is win now for the Cavs.

prodigy
08-16-2014, 11:20 PM
so much ignorance in this thread on how the kobe/charlotte transaction happened.

I guess i shouldn't be surprised... it is PSD...

Come on bro, you didn't hear? Kobe forced his way to LA. He threatened all those teams and made them pass on him. Forget what Kobe himself actually says, you think he knows more about what happened than PSD?

I don't know much about what happen nor do I give 2 sh*** but Kobe is a pretty f'ed up person. Great ball player but horrible person. I'm sure he forced his way out of Charlotte. If not then OK. He still a dbag lol.

AIRMAR72
08-17-2014, 12:34 AM
Kobe is such a douchebag. God I hate the way he carries himself.

Everyone knows he put the Hornets under the gun. *******.

Exactly...Kobe need to shut his mouth and go to church cause kobe is reason why Gasol QUIT playing and Howard to bouncing to the rockects

SILVER SEAVER
08-17-2014, 03:20 PM
It is win now for the Cavs.

And if this doesn't work he can always leave and go to another team with talented players and recruit. He really needs to go to Sacramento and bring a championship to that city. The King of Kings just makes sense.

SILVER SEAVER
08-17-2014, 03:23 PM
LMAO. Kobe comparing his situation with Wiggins is laughable. Kobe all but putting a gun to the heads of Charlotte management to trade is nothing like poor Wiggins left with his **** in the wind awaiting a trade because Christ decided to go back to Cleveland and not want to mentor a raw talent that could be a great wingman.

SILVER SEAVER
08-17-2014, 03:24 PM
LeBron is probably dissing Wiggins they way Jordan dissed him.

Vinylman
08-17-2014, 03:27 PM
Come on bro, you didn't hear? Kobe forced his way to LA. He threatened all those teams and made them pass on him. Forget what Kobe himself actually says, you think he knows more about what happened than PSD?

the record is quite clear on what happened as i already posted it in this thread... charlotte was never even considering taking kobe and only took him because a deal was in place the day before the draft... people keep saying he screwed charlotte... he did no such thing.

basketfan4life
08-18-2014, 03:47 AM
If Cleveland has a chance to have a player that plays a level Kobe played at in years 1-3, and a Kevin Love for the next three years.... I take Love.


If Cleveland keep Wiggins, they may very well lose him in free agency like the Raptors lost McGrady.... then what is the point to not making the trade?


Also... Wiggins is the FIRST pick. Kobe was the first guard to come straight out of highschool and was a late lottery pick.... no guarantee he was going to work out. People always treat draft picks like that as if people KNEW.... Kobe was an arrogant teen who thought he was too good for college and when he got to the Lakers, he made a LOT of enemies with his gawd-awful shot selection and arrogance. At that point in his career, he has NO basis for that kind of arrogance.... sure, but the time he was 24 he was in the conversation for the best SG to ever wear a Laker's jerseys, but that first couple of years....


Bottom line... Love IS an franchise player. Wiggins MAY BECOME a franchise player, or he may become a bust.

Every GM with their head on straight should take what they KNOW to be an amazing player over what might be an amazing player, because.... well.... Kwambe Brown, Anthony Bennett, Derrick Williams, Hasheem Thabeat, Michael Beasley, Greg Oden, Marvin Williams, Darko Milicic, Jay Williams, Stromile Swift, and Michael Olowokanid..... and those are some some of the first or second picks since Tim Duncan was drafted.... how many of them panned out? That is a better than 25% failure rate with a top two pick.... and these are professional scouts..


When you HAVE a full house, you don't trade your cards in hoping for a straight flush.

If he is your franchise player, you are in a trouble. But somehow PSD is in love with losers with good metrics. That is the trend.

You get the biggest beatdown in finals history, you jump a lot of spots on the all time list. I guess it's complicated :)


I disagree. I have not seen any decline at all in his game. If anything his shooting has gotten better. On top of that he's a winner now and knows what it takes to win. He's a much better leader and recruiter also.

Yeah, two other superstars in their prime and some of the all time best shooters. To go 2-2...

NYKalltheway
08-18-2014, 04:51 AM
On paper Lebron has 4-5 more great years (meaning he's going to be at least top 2) so Cleveland probably made the right choice. It's like cheating to get into the playoffs with a higher seed. Maybe after 2 rings he has matured enough to be able to lead a team. That remains to be seen. But for the time being, the wise plan is to build around him and not build for the future.
We can't tell how good Wiggins will become, I believe he's going to be a top 5 player for most of his career but that doesn't mean much at this point. If the Cavs believe that they can't fit him into a system or that he can't be of immediate assistance then trading for Love makes sense and you can't really call it a mistake.

We might be hearing after 15-30 years "zomg look at the Cavs, they ruined their chances for a dynasty" if Wiggins turns out amazing right away and Lebron and/or other Cavs players get serious injuries etc, but for the time being this seems like the best thing to do.

prodigy
08-19-2014, 12:11 AM
If Cleveland has a chance to have a player that plays a level Kobe played at in years 1-3, and a Kevin Love for the next three years.... I take Love.


If Cleveland keep Wiggins, they may very well lose him in free agency like the Raptors lost McGrady.... then what is the point to not making the trade?


Also... Wiggins is the FIRST pick. Kobe was the first guard to come straight out of highschool and was a late lottery pick.... no guarantee he was going to work out. People always treat draft picks like that as if people KNEW.... Kobe was an arrogant teen who thought he was too good for college and when he got to the Lakers, he made a LOT of enemies with his gawd-awful shot selection and arrogance. At that point in his career, he has NO basis for that kind of arrogance.... sure, but the time he was 24 he was in the conversation for the best SG to ever wear a Laker's jerseys, but that first couple of years....


Bottom line... Love IS an franchise player. Wiggins MAY BECOME a franchise player, or he may become a bust.

Every GM with their head on straight should take what they KNOW to be an amazing player over what might be an amazing player, because.... well.... Kwambe Brown, Anthony Bennett, Derrick Williams, Hasheem Thabeat, Michael Beasley, Greg Oden, Marvin Williams, Darko Milicic, Jay Williams, Stromile Swift, and Michael Olowokanid..... and those are some some of the first or second picks since Tim Duncan was drafted.... how many of them panned out? That is a better than 25% failure rate with a top two pick.... and these are professional scouts..


When you HAVE a full house, you don't trade your cards in hoping for a straight flush.

If he is your franchise player, you are in a trouble. But somehow PSD is in love with losers with good metrics. That is the trend.

You get the biggest beatdown in finals history, you jump a lot of spots on the all time list. I guess it's complicated :)


I disagree. I have not seen any decline at all in his game. If anything his shooting has gotten better. On top of that he's a winner now and knows what it takes to win. He's a much better leader and recruiter also.

Yeah, two other superstars in their prime and some of the all time best shooters. To go 2-2...

And have those two superstars play like complete crap and lost. I mean worse then crap. They were awful. Lebron can't bet spurs by himself.

bucketss
08-19-2014, 12:46 AM
And have those two superstars play like complete crap and lost. I mean worse then crap. They were awful. Lebron can't bet spurs by himself.

he called wade/bosh superstars, thats just hilarious.


if they're superstars than surely the miami heat should be serious contenders this year since they have two superstars on their sqaud, plus deng(all star),granger and mcroberts to round of the role players. how can so many people have the bulls, who have only one superstar who might not even be healthy over the heat who have two!

basketfan4life
08-19-2014, 02:24 AM
he called wade/bosh superstars, thats just hilarious.


if they're superstars than surely the miami heat should be serious contenders this year since they have two superstars on their sqaud, plus deng(all star),granger and mcroberts to round of the role players. how can so many people have the bulls, who have only one superstar who might not even be healthy over the heat who have two!

So you don't think wade and bosh were superstars the years the Heat won the title ? You don't think wade was a top 5 player when lbj joined the heat and cost them the 'ship the very first year? You don't think Bosh was a superstar when he joined the Heat after going 24-10 for your Raptors?

I bet you were claiming Wade was better than Kobe, now that LBJ left them and lost in the finals and jumped ship again, they are full of crap ha? Isn't surprising anymore.

Jarvo
08-19-2014, 03:08 AM
Ehhh I think The Cavs should have got Parker instead of Wiggins in the 1st place, But I think Kobe is wrong here.

KINGOFSPORTS
08-19-2014, 03:15 AM
Kobe and I agree.

Everyone continues to overlook that Wiggins is an elite defensive player

Ariza's Better
08-19-2014, 04:42 AM
So you don't think wade and bosh were superstars the years the Heat won the title ? You don't think wade was a top 5 player when lbj joined the heat and cost them the 'ship the very first year? You don't think Bosh was a superstar when he joined the Heat after going 24-10 for your Raptors?

I bet you were claiming Wade was better than Kobe, now that LBJ left them and lost in the finals and jumped ship again, they are full of crap ha? Isn't surprising anymore.
How did Wade and Bosh go this year?

basketfan4life
08-19-2014, 06:31 AM
How did Wade and Bosh go this year?

That is my whole point from the beginning. Man, when it comes to lbj, PSD even declines to read. I said he figured it takes two other superstars for him to win a championship. Which is why he jumped ship again. God, these people.

mightybosstone
08-19-2014, 08:55 AM
Kobe and I agree.

Everyone continues to overlook that Wiggins is an elite defensive player

His defensive ability is a nice plus, but give me a consistent, efficient 25/10 guy who is a mediocre defender over an elite defender who can give me 15/5 any day of the week. At this point, we have no clue what kind of offensive player Wiggins is going to be. He wasn't exactly Kevin Durant offensively at the collegiate level last year, and he really needs to work on his 3-point range if he's ever going to be an elite scorer in his league.

mightybosstone
08-19-2014, 09:06 AM
So you don't think wade and bosh were superstars the years the Heat won the title ? You don't think wade was a top 5 player when lbj joined the heat and cost them the 'ship the very first year? You don't think Bosh was a superstar when he joined the Heat after going 24-10 for your Raptors?
Bosh was never a "superstar." Let's be super clear about that. He was a top 15-25 guy in Toronto and he's still probably capable of that same level of player on a bad or mediocre basketball team. Wade was still playing at a top 5-10 level that first year with Lebron and Bosh, but you could argue that he saw a decline in each of the next two seasons and then a substantial decline that fourth year.


I bet you were claiming Wade was better than Kobe, now that LBJ left them and lost in the finals and jumped ship again, they are full of crap ha? Isn't surprising anymore.
He was better that first year and was arguably better the next two years (although I'd give Kobe the edge in 12-13). But he fell off a ton last season, and he wasn't the same player in the last two postseasons. Going into this season, I expect Kobe will be the better basketball player.


That is my whole point from the beginning. Man, when it comes to lbj, PSD even declines to read. I said he figured it takes two other superstars for him to win a championship. Which is why he jumped ship again. God, these people.
Are you suggesting that he knew Kevin Love would come to Cleveland? Or just suggesting that Lebron felt Irving and Wiggins could be his superstar co-stars?

sixers247
08-19-2014, 09:15 AM
Kobe causes cancer

Heatcheck
08-19-2014, 11:25 AM
the record is quite clear on what happened as i already posted it in this thread... charlotte was never even considering taking kobe and only took him because a deal was in place the day before the draft... people keep saying he screwed charlotte... he did no such thing.

Yeah he did, he just did it through his agent so no one can say he actually said it. Its been quoted in several articles. dude did what was best for his career just like Magic did, but pretending he proved a franchise wrong because they overlooked him is just him trying to add to his legacy. just because the nets or some other team wanted him, and charlotte was the team to make the trade doesn't change the situation.
what you posted basically makes him look even stupider because if you tell teams your only signing for the lakers, and the hornets were simply the team that made the trade, they didn't exactly give up on you or whatever he claims, because you were never going to play there anyway.

Vinny642
08-19-2014, 11:56 AM
Kobe smh... he forced the Hornets hand and still tries to deny it.

CubsBullsBucs
08-19-2014, 01:04 PM
In 5 years will Cleveland wish they had Wiggins? Absolutely. But because they have a championship window NOW (next 2-3 years), they need to go all in NOW. Love gives them a better chance at a chip now than Wiggins does.

bucketss
08-19-2014, 01:23 PM
So you don't think wade and bosh were superstars the years the Heat won the title ? You don't think wade was a top 5 player when lbj joined the heat and cost them the 'ship the very first year? You don't think Bosh was a superstar when he joined the Heat after going 24-10 for your Raptors?

I bet you were claiming Wade was better than Kobe, now that LBJ left them and lost in the finals and jumped ship again, they are full of crap ha? Isn't surprising anymore.

you pointed out their 2-2 finals record so obviously you meant they're were superstars even this year. wade was a superstar year 1 and some of year 2,, past two years he was not a superstar dont kid yourself, and bosh was never a superstar.

wade is better than kobe now, kobe was better the last time he was healthy but imo kobe is pretty much done now.

bucketss
08-19-2014, 01:26 PM
That is my whole point from the beginning. Man, when it comes to lbj, PSD even declines to read. I said he figured it takes two other superstars for him to win a championship. Which is why he jumped ship again. God, these people.

but didn't you say love wasn't a superstar? so other than lebron who is a superstar on the cavs? LOL don't trip on your words.

5ass
08-19-2014, 01:27 PM
In 5 years will Cleveland wish they had Wiggins? Absolutely. But because they have a championship window NOW (next 2-3 years), they need to go all in NOW. Love gives them a better chance at a chip now than Wiggins does.
Absolutely? No, we don't know how Wiggins will turn out.

TheMightyHumph
08-19-2014, 10:29 PM
I'd love to see the list of NBA players more full of crap than Kobe.

basketfan4life
08-20-2014, 02:50 AM
but didn't you say love wasn't a superstar? so other than lebron who is a superstar on the cavs? LOL don't trip on your words.

Did i ?

basketfan4life
08-20-2014, 02:55 AM
you pointed out their 2-2 finals record so obviously you meant they're were superstars even this year. wade was a superstar year 1 and some of year 2,, past two years he was not a superstar dont kid yourself, and bosh was never a superstar.

wade is better than kobe now, kobe was better the last time he was healthy but imo kobe is pretty much done now.
We'll see if they are superstars or not, even last year if they weren't superstars, that means you are proving my point.

I'm absolutely %100 sure you don't think Kobe is done, you just want it and say it. Any sane person who watches this game knows Kobe is far from done. Done and being on a decline are 2 totally different things. And i only know 2 people who say Kobe is done. You and naps, very elite company.

bucketss
08-20-2014, 12:24 PM
Did i ?

you said he wasn't a franchise player, if he can''t even be a franchise player, than how can he reach superstardom?

WSU Tony
08-20-2014, 03:21 PM
I don't care who the prospect in the draft is - for anyone to be confident if not certain that player will end up a top 5 player in their prime have serious sports center viewing issues to address.

Odds are Wiggins never cracks the top 5 players so for people saying "Wiggins could be better than Love," just stop.

The list of players who have a "high ceiling" who haven't even scratched that ceiling is far longer than the list of players who were top 5 in their career.

basketfan4life
08-21-2014, 06:16 AM
you said he wasn't a franchise player, if he can''t even be a franchise player, than how can he reach superstardom?
which one is better? We might have a language barrier here.

NoahH
08-21-2014, 05:44 PM
The key difference here is Kobe forced his way out of Charlotte and said he wouldnt play for Charlotte. Wiggins never did that. Charlotte didnt really make a mistake their hands were kind of tied a la Steve Francis and Vancouver.

bucketss
08-21-2014, 06:07 PM
which one is better? We might have a language barrier here.

a franchise player is someone a organization can build around, a superstar is the Elite players in the league, the lebrons, durants, i would honestly even say love could be a superstar BUT what i find funny is you call love a superstar but say he isn't a franchise player.

you're saying a superstar can't be built around thats funny

Jamiecballer
08-21-2014, 09:05 PM
The arrogance on this Kobe guy is something else.

It would be like Bill Buckner saying the ball never went through his legs. Righttttt...

bearadonisdna
08-22-2014, 12:11 AM
cept Irving hasn't reached his prime yet and Love is about to enter his. Thats the scary part. Irving has the ability to become a superstar as well - he has the tools and we've seen parts of it over the last two seasons on what he can do on the court. Wiggins is like a 4-6 year wait into his prime.

I wouldnt go that far. Irving may have hit his prime or missed out on it all together. No one plays with lebron and is better than they were.
Even wade, bosh , james acknowledged that they could have stunted their individual success playing with each other.

kampz
08-22-2014, 01:03 AM
I agree with Kobe that it could end up being a mistake for Cleveland trading Wiggins, but Andrew will never be the talent that Kobe was.

Putting that aside I'm still puzzled with the idea that Lebron would ever be pushing for this trade in the first place. Those Miami teams blew pretty hard since Kevin Love and Chris Bosh are comparable. There's a extremely slim chance Wiggins will be another Bennett. I think the best bet would be a more offensive Michael Kidd Gilchrist which I would think would be a better fit but I guess he's to tall. There's a good chance that Kevin Love will never be needed in Cleveland. I thought tying up most of your money in three players long term is a bad idea. Your franchise should die if injuries happen to those players, but people still show up knowing they wouldn't be getting what they want 99.9% ahead of time...

kampz
08-22-2014, 01:08 AM
Sorry for the double post but the major reason I dislike Kevin Love is because there should of been a 1000 more Kevin Loves before he entered the league. It doesn't make sense if you know what I mean... I should make a new thread discussing this.

basketfan4life
08-22-2014, 08:46 AM
a franchise player is someone a organization can build around, a superstar is the Elite players in the league, the lebrons, durants, i would honestly even say love could be a superstar BUT what i find funny is you call love a superstar but say he isn't a franchise player.

you're saying a superstar can't be built around thats funny

Then this is a language barrier. I tought a franchise player is someone, who is not only a superstar and also very best of it, like Lebron, Shaq , Kobe, Duncan. Who you can build around as your best player and win championships. So what i tried to say is if Love is your best player, you are in a trouble(winning a chip vise).

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Vinylman
08-22-2014, 10:29 AM
Yeah he did, he just did it through his agent so no one can say he actually said it. Its been quoted in several articles. dude did what was best for his career just like Magic did, but pretending he proved a franchise wrong because they overlooked him is just him trying to add to his legacy. just because the nets or some other team wanted him, and charlotte was the team to make the trade doesn't change the situation.
what you posted basically makes him look even stupider because if you tell teams your only signing for the lakers, and the hornets were simply the team that made the trade, they didn't exactly give up on you or whatever he claims, because you were never going to play there anyway.

kobe can handle the hate so keep it coming...

he and his agent were very clear and transparent to all GM's on where he wanted to play and if another team picked him he would opt for either college or overseas...

there is nothing wrong with what he did... he used the threat of not signing as his leverage ...

So again, he never screwed Charlotte as they only picked him to trade him...

all your other hate is simply that... hate for hating's sake...

naps
08-22-2014, 11:02 AM
LOL. Charlotte made a mistake? When? I didn't know being forced to do something is known as a mistake.

Heatcheck
08-22-2014, 01:56 PM
kobe can handle the hate so keep it coming...

he and his agent were very clear and transparent to all GM's on where he wanted to play and if another team picked him he would opt for either college or overseas...

there is nothing wrong with what he did... he used the threat of not signing as his leverage ...

So again, he never screwed Charlotte as they only picked him to trade him...

all your other hate is simply that... hate for hating's sake...

no one said there was anything wrong with that. Im pretty sure I stated that previously.
but don't walk around saying charlotte gave up or snubbed you and you showed them they were wrong, when all along you weren't going to sign for them or anyone not named the lakers. that's as disingenuous and full of shi.te as you can get.
So all your lame-a.ss usage of the word hate, is just that, lame.