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View Full Version : Kevin Durant Calls Allen Iverson Pound-For-Pound the G.O.A.T!



HoopKing
08-10-2014, 06:17 PM
Today's players have so much love and respect for A.I., still wish he was in the league. Dude def got blacklisted, still could have been a Tony Parker-caliber player had he been in the right situation after Denver.

KD calls him the pound 4 pound GOAT.

http://www.balldontstop.com/nba-stars-talk-allen-iverson/

bucketss
08-10-2014, 06:23 PM
not giving your blog any clicks sorry,

ManRam
08-10-2014, 06:27 PM
not giving your blog any clicks sorry,

Same. Also, this trend of one player's opinion about another player's ability becoming thread-worthy is silly. I don't care what KD thinks about Iverson. It's just an opinion.

InRoseWeTrust
08-10-2014, 07:01 PM
Well that's laughable of KD. Calling Iverson the GOAT, by any measure or metric, is laughable.

Jamiecballer
08-10-2014, 07:02 PM
Today's players have so much love and respect for A.I., still wish he was in the league. Dude def got blacklisted, still could have been a Tony Parker-caliber player had he been in the right situation after Denver.

KD calls him the pound 4 pound GOAT.

http://www.balldontstop.com/nba-stars-talk-allen-iverson/
He's wrong. Its Muggsy.

TheNumber37
08-10-2014, 07:15 PM
If you give Iverson the body of LeBron, Kd, Jordan, Kobe, Or Even Payton, Kidd, Wade he would have Averaged close to 40 a game

InRoseWeTrust
08-10-2014, 07:17 PM
If you give Iverson the body of LeBron, Kd, Jordan, Kobe, Or Even Payton, Kidd, Wade he would have Averaged close to 40 a game

Still on 38% shooting, isolating his teammates, with a flat out **** attitude. Awesome.

amazinginsight
08-10-2014, 07:21 PM
If you give Iverson the body of LeBron, Kd, Jordan, Kobe, Or Even Payton, Kidd, Wade he would have Averaged close to 40 a game
if you give lebron nervous system of Iverson he would have averaged 80 a game

bgdreton
08-10-2014, 07:41 PM
I don't really care what KD says but AI is one of my favorite players. I just loved that he wanted to be himself no matter what ppl thought of him. Heart of a lion....

PhillyFaninLA
08-10-2014, 07:45 PM
Iverson is one of the great warriors and I do believe best little man ever. It seemed like ever game they showed a diagram of his body highlighting all the injuries he was playing through, many players would miss games with anyone of the damage he excelled through.

I think people that just saw him here and there or don't understand what the Sixers roster was like during most of his career don't get how good he was.

Also when you through stats out without using the eye test, your stats don't mean much to me.

PhillyFaninLA
08-10-2014, 07:49 PM
He's wrong. Its Muggsy.

I don't agree, Muggsy is no where near as good as Iverson or Isiah.

hoopsmate
08-10-2014, 07:53 PM
Love the mentality, hate the efficiency.

mrblisterdundee
08-10-2014, 07:55 PM
Well ... Allen Iverson averaged about 30 pounds or approximately 15 percent lighter than Michael Jordan, the actual "GOAT." Was Jordan at least 15 percent better than Iverson (don't over-think this one)?

010957
08-10-2014, 07:59 PM
Same. Also, this trend of one player's opinion about another player's ability becoming thread-worthy is silly. I don't care what KD thinks about Iverson. It's just an opinion.

yeh....Just the opinion of the best basketball player on the planet

j-bay
08-10-2014, 08:15 PM
Doesn't surprise me. KD is a DC boy. KD probably watched a lot of AI's games at G-town and then continued to watch his NBA career.

AIRMAR72
08-10-2014, 08:28 PM
i don't agree, muggsy is no where near as good as iverson or isiah. correct

goingfor28
08-10-2014, 09:07 PM
I miss AI :(

Jamiecballer
08-10-2014, 09:10 PM
I don't agree, Muggsy is no where near as good as Iverson or Isiah.
I just assumed he weighed less.

FlashBolt
08-10-2014, 09:31 PM
Pound for pound means the player in relation to other weight classes. Seeing as A.I is the same dimension as Chris Paul, I find it hard to believe A.I is the pound for pound greatest. He is up there but Chris Paul and John Stockton were much better players.

XpLiCiTT
08-10-2014, 09:36 PM
99% of people on PSD hate Iverson. Pound for pound he is without one of the best to ever do it. He wore his heart on his sleeve, and put it all out there every single night.

Ariza's Better
08-10-2014, 09:40 PM
If you give Iverson the body of LeBron, Kd, Jordan, Kobe, Or Even Payton, Kidd, Wade he would have Averaged close to 40 a game
If Iverson swapped bodies with Peter Parker rather than Doc Ock he could of averaged 200 points.

beyourself
08-10-2014, 09:45 PM
Jordan is the greatest pound for pound player ever. He came into the NBA under 200 pounds and became the greatest player in league history.

east fb knicks
08-10-2014, 09:48 PM
Pound for pound means the player in relation to other weight classes. Seeing as A.I is the same dimension as Chris Paul, I find it hard to believe A.I is the pound for pound greatest. He is up there but Chris Paul and John Stockton were much better players.

lmao cp3 is yet to get out of the 2nd rd ai went to the finals cp3 has a ways to go before we compare him to ai kd is right the only players that compare to ai is zeke and tiny archibald

kingkenny01
08-10-2014, 09:51 PM
Charles Barkley is pound for pound the best, He was the round mound of rebound, he has the most pounds on him hence making him the best

east fb knicks
08-10-2014, 09:54 PM
Charles Barkley is pound for pound the best, He was the round mound of rebound, he has the most pounds on him hence making him the best

what about Robert tractor traylor:shrug:

Chavacano
08-10-2014, 10:35 PM
Practice.

TheMightyHumph
08-10-2014, 10:40 PM
Today's players have so much love and respect for A.I., still wish he was in the league. Dude def got blacklisted, still could have been a Tony Parker-caliber player had he been in the right situation after Denver.

KD calls him the pound 4 pound GOAT.

http://www.balldontstop.com/nba-stars-talk-allen-iverson/

Did KD actually weigh AI? Did KD consider AI might be the most selfish player, worst defender and worst shooter, pound for pound?

NBA_Starter
08-10-2014, 10:54 PM
Best at practice

east fb knicks
08-10-2014, 10:59 PM
Did KD actually weigh AI? Did KD consider AI might be the most selfish player, worst defender and worst shooter, pound for pound?

:laugh: I hope that's a joke bro

TheMightyHumph
08-10-2014, 11:03 PM
99% of people on PSD hate Iverson. Pound for pound he is without one of the best to ever do it. He wore his heart on his sleeve, and put it all out there every single night.

As long as he was the centerpiece.

And I'll take Calvin Murphy over Iverson, pound for pound.

TheMightyHumph
08-10-2014, 11:04 PM
:laugh: I hope that's a joke bro

Dead serious. You have other contenders for those titles?

east fb knicks
08-10-2014, 11:11 PM
Dead serious. You have other contenders for those titles?

lmao you must have just recently just started watching the nba to even think that about ai you just sound like a hater bro but whatever everybody has their own op whether it's right or wrong I guess:shrug:

Chavacano
08-10-2014, 11:13 PM
Dead serious. You have other contenders for those titles?

^^ Are those even legitimate titles? llullz

FlashBolt
08-10-2014, 11:19 PM
lmao cp3 is yet to get out of the 2nd rd ai went to the finals cp3 has a ways to go before we compare him to ai kd is right the only players that compare to ai is zeke and tiny archibald

So you're telling me AI>Stockton? Lol. AI made it out of a VERY weak ECF. He would have never stood his time in the West. VC/Ray Allen took AI to game 7's.. I said AI is up there but let's make a poll and see who would take AI over CP3.

TheMightyHumph
08-10-2014, 11:27 PM
lmao you must have just recently just started watching the nba to even think that about ai you just sound like a hater bro but whatever everybody has their own op whether it's right or wrong I guess:shrug:

Yeah, I've only been following the NBA for 52 years. I'm sure I'll catch on at some point

TheMightyHumph
08-10-2014, 11:29 PM
^^ Are those even legitimate titles? llullz

What's legitimate? Pound for Pound? What the hell does that even mean?

TheMightyHumph
08-10-2014, 11:34 PM
lmao cp3 is yet to get out of the 2nd rd ai went to the finals cp3 has a ways to go before we compare him to ai kd is right the only players that compare to ai is zeke and tiny archibald

What did Iverson do better than Chris Paul, other than chuck up shots without a conscience?

kingkenny01
08-10-2014, 11:34 PM
what about Robert tractor traylor:shrug:

True, RIP tractor traylor

Alayla
08-11-2014, 12:13 AM
Please no more AI threads.. let the man's career rest in peace.

As for pound for pound greatest there was a fair argument until Chris Paul came into the NBA. Move on

Crackadalic
08-11-2014, 12:38 AM
The refs screwed AI over during his prime years. I never seen a little mother ****er get no calls the way he does. Yes he gets to the line a lot but the way he attack and still get clobbered was such ********.

How many players his height played the minutes he played? He is fifth all the time.

He played during the hand check era and when Big man was still strong up until the twilight of his career

He still average 6 assist for his career for someone who was the main scoring threat every single night

I almost always try to use stats, advance stats etc but I just can't when someone his size isnt even suppose to score 20K points.

There is probably a lot of players his size that is way more efficient but please show me anyone that can sustain the same efficiency over 40+ minutes and please don't show me per 36/ per 48. I'm well aware what they show

Pound for pound yeah AI us the greatest to ever play

TheMightyHumph
08-11-2014, 01:20 AM
The refs screwed AI over during his prime years. I never seen a little mother ****er get no calls the way he does. Yes he gets to the line a lot but the way he attack and still get clobbered was such ********.

How many players his height played the minutes he played? He is fifth all the time.

He played during the hand check era and when Big man was still strong up until the twilight of his career

He still average 6 assist for his career for someone who was the main scoring threat every single night

I almost always try to use stats, advance stats etc but I just can't when someone his size isnt even suppose to score 20K points.

There is probably a lot of players his size that is way more efficient but please show me anyone that can sustain the same efficiency over 40+ minutes and please don't show me per 36/ per 48. I'm well aware what they show

Pound for pound yeah AI us the greatest to ever play

Your love for AI is nice. I'd take Calvin Murphy.

Shlumpledink
08-11-2014, 01:40 AM
Pound for pound means nothing. Is shaq pound for pound the worst or something?

east fb knicks
08-11-2014, 02:23 AM
So you're telling me AI>Stockton? Lol. AI made it out of a VERY weak ECF. He would have never stood his time in the West. VC/Ray Allen took AI to game 7's.. I said AI is up there but let's make a poll and see who would take AI over CP3.

whats your point Stockton went to the finals:facepalm:

Trueblue2
08-11-2014, 02:27 AM
Not like there's weight classes in basketball. The p4p goat conversation should stay in combat sports and competitive weight lifting where it belongs. Bu for real, I'm inch for inch the best porn star there ever was.

Mr.B
08-11-2014, 02:31 AM
Today's players have so much love and respect for A.I., still wish he was in the league. Dude def got blacklisted, still could have been a Tony Parker-caliber player had he been in the right situation after Denver.

KD calls him the pound 4 pound GOAT.

http://www.balldontstop.com/nba-stars-talk-allen-iverson/
Did Tawana tell you that?!

east fb knicks
08-11-2014, 02:52 AM
What did Iverson do better than Chris Paul, other than chuck up shots without a conscience?

get to the finals heck not even that just getting out of the 2nd rd :laugh:

Mr.B
08-11-2014, 02:53 AM
In all seriousness, AI was A really fun player to watch and he really could score (not shoot) on anyone in the NBA. That includes Jordan who was 1st team all NBA. The problem with AI is that he had no respect for the team concept. He was still good enough to get to the Finals (which is really amazing when you think about it). It he's the only player that I ever saw score 50 points in a game and lose. I wouldn't call him a chucker at all, he just had zero interest in allowing his teammates to help him. Or maybe he just never knew how since he never took practice seriously. Was he a great player? Yes. Pound for pound (players of similar stature) greatest of all time? Nope, I would easily take Chris Paul, John Stockton, Calvin Murphy, and Isaiah Thomas over AI.

Chavacano
08-11-2014, 03:06 AM
What's legitimate? Pound for Pound? What the hell does that even mean?

^^ These "most selfish player, worst defender and worst shooter."

TheSilentBang
08-11-2014, 03:16 AM
Would KD call the GOAT for kilo for kilo though?

amos1er
08-11-2014, 03:55 AM
Perhaps Durant and 3RDASYSTEM might know each other. Or perhaps be one in the same.

Badluck33
08-11-2014, 06:59 AM
A body of Lebron still wouldn't have gotten him to practice with his team.

Skills of a top caliber player I will not doubt nor question.

His worth ethic is what I question and its what I believe has kept him out of basketball.

Sly Guy
08-11-2014, 09:28 AM
a guy with heart and talent, but without a brain enough to use his teammates.

Volume shooters are never the best players, no matter how talented.

bmanjones
08-11-2014, 09:33 AM
No point in having an Iverson thread. Because how much of a polarizing figure iverson was/is, so many people are biased one way or the other, your I.Q. will drop 35 points by trying to debate his career with someone from either side of the spectrum. Some people will say "in Lebron's body he would score 45675 points a game", others will say "FG%!!! He is the 34234th greatest guard of all time..... maybe..".

TheNumber37
08-11-2014, 10:44 AM
If you give Iverson the body of LeBron, Kd, Jordan, Kobe, Or Even Payton, Kidd, Wade he would have Averaged close to 40 a game
If Iverson swapped bodies with Peter Parker rather than Doc Ock he could of averaged 200 points.

This is a pound for pound argument not a superpower argument. So your hyperbole holds no merit. And, if Ai was bigger he'd shoot better than 38%, Because he'd have more vision and more spacing

TheNumber37
08-11-2014, 10:47 AM
Fact: all Ai bashers never watched Sixers games. They were all Lakers and Tmac fans at the time.. ALL the Nba,.professional basketball players give.him respect... Fans (not his fans) are the only ones who don't like him

JonnyBrav000
08-11-2014, 11:53 AM
So you're telling me AI>Stockton? Lol. AI made it out of a VERY weak ECF. He would have never stood his time in the West. VC/Ray Allen took AI to game 7's.. I said AI is up there but let's make a poll and see who would take AI over CP3.


Allen Iverson is the greater player over Stockton and Chris Paul. Just check what Michael Jordan thinks of A.I., check Lebron, check Charles Barkley, check Shaq, check what all the top pros think and they all agree that Allen is one of the 20 greatest of all time and probably the greatest relative to his size. Yes Allen was not very efficient, but you also have to think about the way he played and the teams he played for. The reason A.I. was better than Stockton and Paul is because A.I. could have played like Stockton or Paul had he gone to a situation with an established player or someone to his equal or close, he could have learned to play the game as a facilitator first because he always had the necessary skills. Iverson has the handle, the awareness and passer ability, the quickness, everything, he had the skills for it, but he also had the skills and confidence to play as the main man, thus winning MVP in 2001 and rightfully so and that wasn't even his very best season, plus he also played on teams with much less than most stars so he had to be the main man, but Stockton had Malone and Hornececk. Chris Paul never had a whole lot with the Hornets but with the Clippers he has more than Iverson ever did and A.I. took a team to the finals unlike Paul who has never done much in the playoffs (not all his fault). Also, Stockton and Paul could never be MVP front runners, they could never be the guy to put a team on their back and do it ALL, they are great players and consistent but never had to be the main man like Iverson was and that is something rare and unseen in the NBA for someone his size. Iverson def could have played like them but they could never play like him.

JonnyBrav000
08-11-2014, 12:25 PM
Perhaps Durant and 3RDASYSTEM might know each other. Or perhaps be one in the same.

I'm looking at your sig, and you are comparing Lebron numbers to Jordan, but you are taking a smaller Michael Jordan sample size, Lebron 794 games compared to Jordan 559, how is that fair and logical? By the way the Jordan averages are more impressive, plus Jordan played in the hand check era with much better defense and there were better MVP candidates in Jordan's playing days as well (Isiah, Magic, Bird, Malone, Stockton, Olajuwon, Payton, Ewing, Drexler). In Lebron's NBA days, Steve Nash who plays no defense, won 2 MVP, you really cannot call Lebron GOAT by any logical measure if you know anything about the past.

FlashBolt
08-11-2014, 03:01 PM
I'm looking at your sig, and you are comparing Lebron numbers to Jordan, but you are taking a smaller Michael Jordan sample size, Lebron 794 games compared to Jordan 559, how is that fair and logical? By the way the Jordan averages are more impressive, plus Jordan played in the hand check era with much better defense and there were better MVP candidates in Jordan's playing days as well (Isiah, Magic, Bird, Malone, Stockton, Olajuwon, Payton, Ewing, Drexler). In Lebron's NBA days, Steve Nash who plays no defense, won 2 MVP, you really cannot call Lebron GOAT by any logical measure if you know anything about the past.

And athletes are far better than they were in the past. Coaching and systems are much more precise than before. You can't tell me you've seen a player of Russell Westbrook in that generation. Stop giving them credit for every thing. Every generation has their pros and cons. He only compares those amount of days because it was was they achieved by age 28.. And Amost1er is probably trolling anyways so believe me, you're arguing with him for no reason.

2-ONE-5
08-11-2014, 03:09 PM
Allen Iverson is the greater player over Stockton and Chris Paul. Just check what Michael Jordan thinks of A.I., check Lebron, check Charles Barkley, check Shaq, check what all the top pros think and they all agree that Allen is one of the 20 greatest of all time and probably the greatest relative to his size. Yes Allen was not very efficient, but you also have to think about the way he played and the teams he played for. The reason A.I. was better than Stockton and Paul is because A.I. could have played like Stockton or Paul had he gone to a situation with an established player or someone to his equal or close, he could have learned to play the game as a facilitator first because he always had the necessary skills. Iverson has the handle, the awareness and passer ability, the quickness, everything, he had the skills for it, but he also had the skills and confidence to play as the main man, thus winning MVP in 2001 and rightfully so and that wasn't even his very best season, plus he also played on teams with much less than most stars so he had to be the main man, but Stockton had Malone and Hornececk. Chris Paul never had a whole lot with the Hornets but with the Clippers he has more than Iverson ever did and A.I. took a team to the finals unlike Paul who has never done much in the playoffs (not all his fault). Also, Stockton and Paul could never be MVP front runners, they could never be the guy to put a team on their back and do it ALL, they are great players and consistent but never had to be the main man like Iverson was and that is something rare and unseen in the NBA for someone his size. Iverson def could have played like them but they could never play like him.

this is good except for the 20 of all time part. I love AI probably more than anyone in this thread but he is not top 20. He will remain in the top 50 though.

FlashBolt
08-11-2014, 03:23 PM
Allen was not better than Stockton or Chris Paul.. He was Russell Westbrook with a green light to shoot whenever he wants (but less athletic and explosive). During his prime, AI averaged 25 shots per game. You guys want to knock on other players for taking too many shots but can you imagine someone taking 25 shots per game in today's generation? It's all about efficiency today and rightfully so. You can't have one player taking all those shots on 39% FG%.

Fact:
Allen Iverson's career TS% is 52%.
Allen Iverson's PER has never hit past 26 and during his prime, averaged a PER of 22.
Allen Iverson's highest WS is .190 and during his prime, averaged WS of .145.

Chris Paul's career TS% is 58%.
Chris Paul's has hit above 26 PER 5/9 years and has an average PER of 25.6. This is including his entire career thus far, not just the prime PER that I averaged out for AI.
Chris Paul's highest WS is .292. He has the highest WS average for a PG at .246. Chris Paul has cracked above .200 WS 7/9 years. AI has NEVER cracked above .200.

AI was a great player and certainly legendary for his size but he was just an inefficient shot jacking green light GO player. He lacked fundamentals and had a low BBIQ. He wasn't a leader and his work ethic is a joke. Picture AI in a team environment and you'd know he's not someone you'd take. Pound for pound top 5 but give me the guy who plays for the team.

Jarvo
08-11-2014, 03:45 PM
Another Iverson thread made and more crazy **** from guys who say ________ (put anyone name) is better than Iverson and how he was a chucker, Wasn't really good, Not a Top 100 player and so on and so on :laugh:

TheMightyHumph
08-11-2014, 05:08 PM
^^ These "most selfish player, worst defender and worst shooter."

They're trophies, like 'World's Greatest Second Cousin'.

TheMightyHumph
08-11-2014, 05:17 PM
Fact: all Ai bashers never watched Sixers games. They were all Lakers and Tmac fans at the time.. ALL the Nba,.professional basketball players give.him respect... Fans (not his fans) are the only ones who don't like him

I'm really not an AI basher. I enjoyed watching him play.

But I know what he was. He was a great scorer and a volume shooter.

He didn't lead his team to the Finals. His team guided AI to the Finals.

But the ridiculous 'Iverson is the greatest of all-time' fans lead to go to the other side of that spectrum.

He was not the worst shooter, but he was not a very good shooter. He was a great penetrator that often forgot that the extra two guys that picked him up on his way to the basket left two of his teammates with nobody guarding them

He was not a good defender, which is why he needed to be surrounded with good defenders.

He was a Warrior with a bad attitude and a poor sense of team play.

Munkeysuit
08-11-2014, 05:30 PM
KD is certainly entitled to his opinion and I think we should start giving his opinion some respect, he could be right! I personally feel like Isiah Thomas was was the best pound for pound player ever, he has some titles to back that claim and was every bit a player as AI was, PLUS he passed the ball.

XpLiCiTT
08-11-2014, 05:36 PM
i'm really not an ai basher. I enjoyed watching him play.

But i know what he was. He was a great scorer and a volume shooter.

he didn't lead his team to the finals. His team guided ai to the finals.

but the ridiculous 'iverson is the greatest of all-time' fans lead to go to the other side of that spectrum.

He was not the worst shooter, but he was not a very good shooter. He was a great penetrator that often forgot that the extra two guys that picked him up on his way to the basket left two of his teammates with nobody guarding them

he was not a good defender, which is why he needed to be surrounded with good defenders.

He was a warrior with a bad attitude and a poor sense of team play.

LOL...I guess you never actually watched him play, but "enjoyed" seeing the occasional game. AI gets bashed on here like no other player. Yeah he's a volume shooter, he was surrounded by a bunch of guys that couldn't score. He still managed to average 6 APG for his career. He shot a relatively low percentage, but his ability to score the way he did with his size is unbelievable. He's so underrated on this site it's not even funny.

TheMightyHumph
08-11-2014, 05:58 PM
LOL...I guess you never actually watched him play, but "enjoyed" seeing the occasional game. AI gets bashed on here like no other player. Yeah he's a volume shooter, he was surrounded by a bunch of guys that couldn't score. He still managed to average 6 APG for his career. He shot a relatively low percentage, but his ability to score the way he did with his size is unbelievable. He's so underrated on this site it's not even funny.

I watched Sixers very often that season because when the Rattler was playing, they were a very exciting team.

AI needed to be surrounded by defenders and rebounders. We saw how well he did when he wasn't.

Ratliff got hurt, and that stopped what running game Sixers had, then Lynch got hurt in the playoffs and they lost some of their defense, hence playing .500 ball after Deke showed up, and .500 ball in the playoffs

XpLiCiTT
08-11-2014, 06:11 PM
I watched Sixers very often that season because when the Rattler was playing, they were a very exciting team.

AI needed to be surrounded by defenders and rebounders. We saw how well he did when he wasn't.

Ratliff got hurt, and that stopped what running game Sixers had, then Lynch got hurt in the playoffs and they lost some of their defense, hence playing .500 ball after Deke showed up, and .500 ball in the playoffs

What? Ratliff was a part of the Dikembe trade, and after that went down the Sixers were carried to finals by Iverson. AI was surrounded by an awful supporting cast practically his entire NBA career.

east fb knicks
08-11-2014, 06:26 PM
lmao at ai was a bad defender you do realize dude was barely 6 feet tall guarding the mj's and kobe's of the world

TheMightyHumph
08-11-2014, 06:26 PM
What? Ratliff was a part of the Dikembe trade, and after that went down the Sixers were carried to finals by Iverson. AI was surrounded by an awful supporting cast practically his entire NBA career.

I don't think even you believe that.

XpLiCiTT
08-11-2014, 07:44 PM
I don't think even you believe that.

You're kidding...?

SILVER SEAVER
08-11-2014, 07:57 PM
The G.O.A.T. with no ring. SMH

SILVER SEAVER
08-11-2014, 07:58 PM
Do these players just say this kind of stuff for shock value?

TheMightyHumph
08-11-2014, 08:08 PM
You're kidding...?

I'm not kidding. Otherwise, you'd be delusional.

XpLiCiTT
08-11-2014, 08:19 PM
I'm not kidding. Otherwise, you'd be delusional.

If I think that Iverson carried the Sixers, I'm delusional?

2-ONE-5
08-11-2014, 08:19 PM
Another Iverson thread made and more crazy **** from guys who say ________ (put anyone name) is better than Iverson and how he was a chucker, Wasn't really good, Not a Top 100 player and so on and so on :laugh:

lol the bashers are worst than the fan boys bcuz they refuse to listen to anything we say to back up his style of play and inefficiency even when it is reasonable. they just go out of their way making outrageous claims, espically the ones that didnt seem him play much or at all.A

AI said it best (in regard to his volume shooting): "I bring the ball up, pass it to Snow, who passes it to Deke, who passes it to McKie, who passes it to Hill, who gives it back to me. Theres only 24 seconds in a shot clock and someone has to shoot and score the ball"

^paraphrased from an interview with Stephen A.

bagwell368
08-11-2014, 08:20 PM
get to the finals heck not even that just getting out of the 2nd rd :laugh:

CP's career unlike AI's isn't near being over.

Tiny was 90% of AI's weight. Stockton was 3% heavier, CP3 is 5.7% heavier than AI/ I'd take all three of them over AI in almost every circumstance, unless you wanted a team jumping, selfish, ball dominant, inefficient shooting POS that played like crap in the Finals for some reason.

2-ONE-5
08-11-2014, 08:26 PM
CP's career unlike AI's isn't near being over.

Tiny was 90% of AI's weight. Stockton was 3% heavier, CP3 is 5.7% heavier than AI/ I'd take all three of them over AI in almost every circumstance, unless you wanted a team jumping, selfish, ball dominant, inefficient shooting POS that played like crap in the Finals for some reason.

hahahahahha this is gold. you are easily the biggest AI basher on this site. its seriously funny anymore

XpLiCiTT
08-11-2014, 08:37 PM
CP's career unlike AI's isn't near being over.

Tiny was 90% of AI's weight. Stockton was 3% heavier, CP3 is 5.7% heavier than AI/ I'd take all three of them over AI in almost every circumstance, unless you wanted a team jumping, selfish, ball dominant, inefficient shooting POS that played like crap in the Finals for some reason.

You can throw all the percentages out there you want, but if you just had eyes and saw AI in person (or on TV) you would understand how small he was. And his style of play caused him to take such a beating, he's tough as nails.

Team jumping? Played 12 seasons as a 76er, and then got traded to DEN where he played 3 seasons....how the **** is he a "team jumper"?

His "selfishness" and "ball-dominating" is something that is completely blown out of proportion on this site for a guy who averaged over 6 APG for his career while being the best scorer in the league during his prime.

Where are you getting that he "played like crap" during the finals? You just sound like a hater...but wait you're the guy who posted in another thread that AI isn't even top 200. :laugh:

HoopKing
08-11-2014, 10:05 PM
A lot of A.I.'s bashers are guys that have never plaid real basketball. Anyone that has ever played organized ball has the utmost respect for Iverson and his game, AND his legacy as one of the greatest players and athletes of all-time.

Including the great Kobe Bryant, LeBron James and Michael Jordan.

He was a 6 foot shooting guard, played his LIFE off every game, literally unguardable in his prime (his prime was till Denver in 08 when he was still third in the NBA in scoring with a lighting quick first step) He got black balled the year after.

If AI was still in the league with a fair chance, he'd be playing effective ball.

Check the resume idiots (I CHALLENGE SOMEONE TO ARGUE THIS RESUME)

-4 x Scoring Champ

-2001 NBA MVP (Every NBA MVP ever is considered a top 50 player of all-time, but AI's haters LOVE to dismiss his legacy)

-11 x NBA All-Star (2 x All-Star game MVP)

- 7 x All-NBA First-Team

- 3 x Steals Leader

- 26.7 PPG all-time (6th all-time!)

- 24,000 career points, 5600 career assists in just 914 games(The records AI would have shattered had he still had a shot at playing!)

- Rookie of The Year in 96 (One of the GOAT classes)


Pound for Pound GOAT. KD, LeBron and Kobe say it.

SILVER SEAVER
08-11-2014, 10:19 PM
I don't doubt he was a player who was ahead of his time and played his *** off every game but to call him the G.O.A.T. is ludicrous. The guy was as tough as nails and could score the hell out of the ball but by no means is he the greatest. He's not even in the top ten all-time let alone number one.

SCHMURDA
08-11-2014, 10:20 PM
I agree 100%....pound 4 pound

XpLiCiTT
08-11-2014, 10:27 PM
I don't doubt he was a player who was ahead of his time and played his *** off every game but to call him the G.O.A.T. is ludicrous. The guy was as tough as nails and could score the hell out of the ball but by no means is he the greatest. He's not even in the top ten all-time let alone number one.

You're taking G.O.A.T too literally. Pound for pound G.O.A.T and G.O.A.T are completely different debates. AI is not anywhere close to the discussion of actual G.O.A.T.

HoopKing
08-11-2014, 10:47 PM
POUND FOR POUND!!!

This basically means the worth, value or greatness of a player in relation to players in other size divisions or in boxing terms weight classes. If it came down to ranking or measuring a players attributes/skill, Iverson would be the #1 all-time.

He accomplished the most and played the best at the smallest.

Allen Iverson is Floyd Mayweather.

SeoulBeatz
08-11-2014, 10:54 PM
Hmmm pound for pound GOAT? I don't even know how you'd measure that. He was surely one of the greatest little guys to ever play the game. A top 50 player, but is undeserving of any GOAT talk regardless of the definition.

He was undeniably a gunner. He was undeniably selfish with the ball. He didn't have the best work ethic to say the least.... but I can see where KD is coming from. Many of today's stars admired the mans fire and passion to win (even though the only way he knew hot to win was to shoot as many times as possible). Regardless, it was amazing how he was capable of taking over a game for a guy so small. He was fearless as a player and it irks me when people compare him to the likes of guys like Antoine Walker etc... players who could give a **** about winning and just coasted up the court to jack threes.

A.I TOOK IT to the other team every night. He had poor efficiency but the pressure he put on defense (knowing that he would be in attack mode for 48 minutes) was immeasurable.

See how Chris Webber, Greg Anthony, and Rick Fox talk about A.I's game below and what made him so intimidating back in his prime...:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rdj7Tn-KYA

Obviously if you're trying to build a championship team based on teamwork and moving the ball, Iverson wouldn't be your first choice. You'd want a PG along the lines of CP3 or Stockton etc... but that's not to say that A.I doesn't have his place in history. He influenced an entire generation of little guys, not through his selfishness, but his fearlessness and will to win. That's what players like CP3, Irving, Wall (players who mention A.I as their favorite player growing up) took from his game. They continue to build and improve upon the framework that A.I laid out and learned from his mistakes.

PowerHouse
08-11-2014, 11:08 PM
Pound for pound is a ridiculous statement when the subject is basketball. This isnt boxing or UFC. And besides, Isiah Thomas (Pistons) in his prime would ball up Iverson all day everyday. Thomas is easily the greatest 6' and under player in NBA history.

TheMightyHumph
08-12-2014, 02:18 AM
His "selfishness" and "ball-dominating" is something that is completely blown out of proportion on this site for a guy who averaged over 6 APG for his career while being the best scorer in the league during his prime.

The funny thing is that he avgd 6 apg because he dominated the ball. Shall we talk TOs?

XpLiCiTT
08-12-2014, 02:45 AM
The funny thing is that he avgd 6 apg because he dominated the ball. Shall we talk TOs?

Right..it had nothing to do with him passing the ball to his teammates. Continue irrationally hating, have fun. :rolleyes:

TheIlladelph16
08-12-2014, 10:52 AM
As a massive AI fan, this is just example No. 856 of why players' evaluation of all time greats should be taken with a grain of salt.

sixers247
08-12-2014, 10:55 AM
As a massive AI fan, this is just example No. 856 of why players' evaluation of all time greats should be taken with a grain of salt.


Agree 1000000%

TheMightyHumph
08-12-2014, 01:38 PM
Right..it had nothing to do with him passing the ball to his teammates. Continue irrationally hating, have fun. :rolleyes:

Again, shall we talk TOs?

FlashBolt
08-12-2014, 02:07 PM
We need to stop making excuses for Allen Iverson. He was a volume shooter who did give everything he had - or did he? Are we forgetting the fact that he didn't know why practice would help his team and how he shouldn't practice because he's Allen Iverson? Are we forgetting that Dikembe 14 points, 14 rebounds, and 3 blocks for the playoffs while putting up these games. Dikembe Mutumbo also had a higher WS for the playoffs than AI.

http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/80/4c/804cb5a7a955ef145131237fc4c5bc60.png

While East was fairly weak. VC/Ray Allen both took similar rosters to the NBA playoffs and both took Sixers to 7 games. In fact, Sixers only beat VC's Raptors by 1 point in game 7.

Allen Iverson was a volume shooter who shot and shot relentlessly. Don't you guys take efficiency into question? A volume shooter just keeps taking shots. Seriously, his FG% and TS% in correlation to his PPG proves he was exactly that. His advanced statistics are insanely horrible for someone who is the pound for pound GOAT. I'm sorry but taking his team to the Finals in which VC lost to them by one point, isn't very impressive. East was weak and there is no way Allen Iverson sniffs the Finals in today's game. I get that he was their first option but he didn't make his teammates better. Who exactly benefited from AI's presence? I can't name a single player who did. Eric Snow? I mean, really. He was just a me-me player who was short and played his heart out. I'd take CP3 over Allen Iverson any day. He's a smarter scorer, a smarter player, he's a better rebounder, passer, and leader. He does virtually everything better than AI and you can argue that CP3 never made it to the Finals but put AI against modern Spurs and modern Western Conference and the only thing he sniffs is a 1st round exit. Many of you are probably enamored with AI's presence and popularity that you forget this is basketball. CP3 beats him in a team game but obviously AI beats him in a 1v1. This is a team game and there is no way Allen is a better player than CP3.

2-ONE-5
08-12-2014, 02:16 PM
if u think VC and Ray had similar teams to the offensivley challenged Sixers i dont know what else to tell you. sicne when does it matter how many games you won a series in? also since you clearly are uninformed u should know the Bucks only went 7 bcuz AI had to miss a game.

FlashBolt
08-12-2014, 02:45 PM
if u think VC and Ray had similar teams to the offensivley challenged Sixers i dont know what else to tell you. sicne when does it matter how many games you won a series in? also since you clearly are uninformed u should know the Bucks only went 7 bcuz AI had to miss a game.

They did have similar teams.. Sixers had a better defensive team which evens it out. Raptors/Bucks blew defensively while Sixers were one of the best teams defensively. Bucks were the best offensive team but their defense was BAD. And the game AI was out, they lost by SIX points... The previous game, they lost by 14 with AI.. So you tell me, if his team was so bad, how did his team lose by SIX points, only?

2-ONE-5
08-12-2014, 02:47 PM
bcuz Deke stepped up. you are trying so incredibly hard to discredit AI its amazing. like i said if u beleive that nonsense you spit out then i really dont know what to tell you

xRODMANx
08-12-2014, 03:03 PM
Lmao at all these morons trying to bash AI. It's truly hilarious. You look at all these advanced stats all you want. If you saw him play, the way he took over games, put his team on his back, and simply dominated the league you'd understand why he's considered one of the all time greats.

TheMightyHumph
08-12-2014, 03:26 PM
Lmao at all these morons trying to bash AI. It's truly hilarious. You look at all these advanced stats all you want. If you saw him play, the way he took over games, put his team on his back, and simply dominated the league you'd understand why he's considered one of the all time greats.

He was quite entertaining. Quite inefficient also. Needed great rebounding and great defense behind him to barely get to the Finals once. It may have looked like he dominated, but all he dominated was the ball.

Goose17
08-12-2014, 03:33 PM
Iverson is the most entertaining volume scorer of our time imo, incredibly inefficient but incredibly fun to watch.

I find it funny people talk about heart, sure he had courage on the court but for me heart means actually working harder than everyone else (or trying to) rumours were this guy did almost nothing when he went to practice and some times didn't go at all.

FlashBolt
08-12-2014, 03:35 PM
bcuz Deke stepped up. you are trying so incredibly hard to discredit AI its amazing. like i said if u beleive that nonsense you spit out then i really dont know what to tell you

Lol.. Game 3 was Dikembe's worst game of the series.. Are you serious? Fun Fact: Allen Iverson shot 5/27 (.185%) from the field in game 5 scoring only 15 points. Yet, Philadelphia won the game against Bucks. In game 4 against the Bucks, Allen Iverson shot 10/32 (.31%) from the field. Philadelphia also won this game. You don't shoot 25% from the field, win games, and claim you don't have help. That just doesn't make sense. You're discrediting the fact that AI's defensive team led by Larry Brown was nothing but Allen Iverson. Larry Brown turned Detroit into the best defensive team and eventually a championship. He knows a thing or two about defense. You're making stuff up.. you don't even know what you're talking about. I'm not the only one who thinks he was a shot jacker. I never said he wasn't a great player - just saying it's overstated. But I rest my case, you're from Philadelphia.

bagwell368
08-12-2014, 03:37 PM
Lmao at all these morons trying to bash AI. It's truly hilarious. You look at all these advanced stats all you want. If you saw him play, the way he took over games, put his team on his back, and simply dominated the league you'd understand why he's considered one of the all time greats.

Tell me about the results? Tell me how many of his teammates didn't come down court and fill the lanes on O because they figured it was worthless? How many fan bases and coaches did he stab in the back? How many passes did he not make - instead taking a poor percentage shot of some sort.

He's easily one of the 5 most toxic players in NBA history and please tell us about his last 4 games in the Finals sometime Mr. Science!

bagwell368
08-12-2014, 03:38 PM
hahahahahha this is gold. you are easily the biggest AI basher on this site. its seriously funny anymore

I noticed you offered zero points in opposition...

FlashBolt
08-12-2014, 03:41 PM
Lmao at all these morons trying to bash AI. It's truly hilarious. You look at all these advanced stats all you want. If you saw him play, the way he took over games, put his team on his back, and simply dominated the league you'd understand why he's considered one of the all time greats.

Stats are very legit. Of course, eye test means a lot but look at PER/WS, the greatest players are usually on the top. Is it a coincidence that MJ is in our opinion, the GOAT but is also the leader in PER/WS? Sure, but you will notice a pattern of all time greats being there. AI was a high volume scorer who needed the ball constantly. It's why Philadelphia was a perfect fit for him. All he had to do was score while his team were elite defenders and you had the DPOY and NBA ALL FIRST DEFENSIVE player in Dikembe (yet people always disregard this). On the court, of course he was exciting. He was a small guy who went up against players 1 1/2 bigger than him and dominated on the offensive end. But give him the same amount of shots as CP3 and let's see how many points he scores then. We constantly derail players who shoot a lot but how does one player take 28 shots per game converting only 40% of those shots and we praise that? Dear Lord, do you know how many points KD would have taking 27 shots per game? In retrospective, KD took 21 shots to score 32. Considering his FG% and accounting for extra FT's and three pointer, KD would average 41 points. The difference is KD knows when to pass the ball for a better shot. AI isn't the brightest. It's why if it wasn't for his financial advisers, he would be broke right now. It's why he's not employed in the NBA while others like Ray Allen and Kobe are still prospering. Practice? Nope. Scare off coaches/players? Yes.

It's also very easy to use the eye test argument. That always works well when you're defending someone but you have no legitimate argument. It's pretty much the "I can't bother to back up my opinion but just watch his games". Go to a court case and offer that argument and let's see what happens. Fact is, Allen never made his teammates better. He benefited off them just as much as the other way around. The fact that you guys even use his size as a detriment of his game is just unappealing. The only reason he was so exciting was because of his size. His size allowed him to slickly squeeze past defense, his size allowed him to outrun everyone with his speed and quickness, his crossover wouldn't be as lethal if he were taller, his size allowed him to have more energy to stay on the court. So for all the negative things that come with his size, you have to acknowledge the positives. There is no AI if there is no 5"11 180 pounder.

bagwell368
08-12-2014, 03:47 PM
You can throw all the percentages out there you want, but if you just had eyes and saw AI in person (or on TV) you would understand how small he was. And his style of play caused him to take such a beating, he's tough as nails.

Team jumping? Played 12 seasons as a 76er, and then got traded to DEN where he played 3 seasons....how the **** is he a "team jumper"?

His "selfishness" and "ball-dominating" is something that is completely blown out of proportion on this site for a guy who averaged over 6 APG for his career while being the best scorer in the league during his prime.

Where are you getting that he "played like crap" during the finals? You just sound like a hater...but wait you're the guy who posted in another thread that AI isn't even top 200. :laugh:

I go back as a fan to 1965, I saw lots of AI. I was also a college D1 player, and coached for 14 years, I know what I'm looking at - and AI had a game that appeals to his home town fans and fans of hero ball. I'm not a 76'ers fan (although I admire the '67 and '82 teams a great deal).

I know his size and I'm sorry, why does he get extra points for being small? I'd give him extra points for playing some actual D besides going for steals sometimes and throwing better and more passes. I'm about results son, not style.

You must have missed how he engineered his trade, go look it up on wiki, also look at his other moves to change teams after that and his final stab in the back to his last team (in Turkey).. He was a Coach killer, and he didn't raise the level of his team. I'm prepared to stipulate that he might have been the best 1 on 1 player all time for a guy his size and less. Sadly for him and his fans, that isn't what NBA 5 on 5 is all about.

Go look up his USG%, memory says he's 3rd all time, that's ball dominant, and his APG isn't close to mitigating it.

He played 5 games in the Finals. 1st game was arguably quite good, the last 4, not so much, do check out the efficiency and TOV's. You call me a hater, but at least I can admit what he can do or did, you can't even admit what he had trouble with/sucked at.

bagwell368
08-12-2014, 04:17 PM
You can throw all the percentages out there you want

I've found like most zealots - doesn't help blind AI fans see since they always have an excuse or justification.


And his style of play caused him to take such a beating

Dave Cowens took a lot of hits, had a bad back and bad ankles too, I promise you he was way tougher in his prime than AI. His career ended early - so - you live by sword and die by it. Cowens doesn't get any special credit for taking a beating.


he's tough as nails.

So tough as nails means he's the GOAT by size? Ever see Norm Van Lier play? 173 lbs. He was also one of the greatest defensive PG's of all time - unlike AI. An all around player. I don't think I'd take AI over him for toughness, overall talent - sure - but ability in his prime to play with a team? No, Van Lier was better. You know who else was better career wise? Mo Cheeks. Better overall, would fit most teams unlike POS AI who could barely work on any team. You ought to learn more about the guys from your own franchise.

You need a toxic volume scorer at the #2 - AI might be the all time. But a PG that plays D, scores, runs an O, doesn't have to be the center of attention? Cheeks crushes him - absolutely. Has a ring that he was a major part of winning. Go ahead and disprove it factually. I could give a shart about style or smallest GOAT crap.

PowerHouse
08-12-2014, 04:53 PM
So tough as nails means he's the GOAT by size? Ever see Norm Van Lier play? 173 lbs. He was also one of the greatest defensive PG's of all time - unlike AI. An all around player. I don't think I'd take AI over him for toughness, overall talent - sure - but ability in his prime to play with a team? No, Van Lier was better. You know who else was better career wise? Mo Cheeks. Better overall, would fit most teams unlike POS AI who could barely work on any team. You ought to learn more about the guys from your own franchise.


And I would take Isiah Thomas' toughness over AI any day of the week too. 6' 180 lbs soaking wet, remember the 25 point 3rd quarter on a badly sprained ankle in the Finals? Thomas did what he did while taking a beating in an era where you could clothesline guys with no technicals called.

Jamiecballer
08-12-2014, 05:02 PM
lol the bashers are worst than the fan boys bcuz they refuse to listen to anything we say to back up his style of play and inefficiency even when it is reasonable. they just go out of their way making outrageous claims, espically the ones that didnt seem him play much or at all.A

AI said it best (in regard to his volume shooting): "I bring the ball up, pass it to Snow, who passes it to Deke, who passes it to McKie, who passes it to Hill, who gives it back to me. Theres only 24 seconds in a shot clock and someone has to shoot and score the ball"

^paraphrased from an interview with Stephen A.

that quote really does tell you everything you need to know about Iverson. it never occurred to him to use his penetration skills to create a shot for someone ELSE. to him passing was something you had to do about 20 times a game at the start of the shot clock because coach made you.

TheMightyHumph
08-12-2014, 06:12 PM
This thread could go on for days, as could any thread about Iverson.

My suggestion is that it should be closed.

All points have been debated ad nauseam, and name-calling usually involved.

No good can come from this thread.

Jamiecballer
08-12-2014, 07:24 PM
This thread could go on for days, as could any thread about Iverson.

My suggestion is that it should be closed.

All points have been debated ad nauseam, and name-calling usually involved.

No good can come from this thread.
If you don't care for it would it not be possible to simply not participate?

HoopKing
08-12-2014, 09:23 PM
Anyone ready to address this resume yet?


A lot of A.I.'s bashers are guys that have never plaid real basketball. Anyone that has ever played organized ball has the utmost respect for Iverson and his game, AND his legacy as one of the greatest players and athletes of all-time.

Including the great Kobe Bryant, LeBron James and Michael Jordan.

He was a 6 foot shooting guard, played his LIFE off every game, literally unguardable in his prime (his prime was till Denver in 08 when he was still third in the NBA in scoring with a lighting quick first step) He got black balled the year after.

If AI was still in the league with a fair chance, he'd be playing effective ball.

Check the resume idiots (I CHALLENGE SOMEONE TO ARGUE THIS RESUME)

-4 x Scoring Champ

-2001 NBA MVP (Every NBA MVP ever is considered a top 50 player of all-time, but AI's haters LOVE to dismiss his legacy)

-11 x NBA All-Star (2 x All-Star game MVP)

- 7 x All-NBA First-Team

- 3 x Steals Leader

- 26.7 PPG all-time (6th all-time!)

- 24,000 career points, 5600 career assists in just 914 games(The records AI would have shattered had he still had a shot at playing!)

- Rookie of The Year in 96 (One of the GOAT classes)


Pound for Pound GOAT. KD, LeBron and Kobe say it.

TheMightyHumph
08-12-2014, 10:28 PM
If you don't care for it would it not be possible to simply not participate?

I assume you are joking.

FlashBolt
08-13-2014, 12:17 AM
Anyone ready to address this resume yet?

1) Played his life every game and that's why no one wants him but yet, you see Caron Butler and Ray Allen/Steve Nash STILL playing?
2) Unguardable? I don't think so. He shot 43% from the field for a reason. Unguardable would suggest he was efficient from the field because he could get his shot whenever he wanted.
3) Just because LeBron/KB/KD/MJ said so, doesn't mean it's true. I have respect for AI but it's another when you evaluate and compare him against some of the greatest players ever.
4) Since 2001 NBA Finals, Allen Iverson had only escaped the first round once.. In his stint in Denver (which was very good. Marcus Camby was a double double machine and Carmelo was a top 10 player), he only won 1 playoff game in two seasons. He shot 40% from the field total; including 37% against the Spurs. Btw, the year after they traded Allen Iverson for Billups/McDyess, they made the NBA WCF! What happened to AI's career after that? It all went downhill and fast. He went from shooting 46% to 42% and his PPG dropped dramatically.
5) For someone who controls the ball for a good portion of the game, AI's assist rate is horrific. Call him a SG but if he's the SG, shouldn't he at least consider giving the PG the ball for some time? This just goes to show that with AI, it was his ball. People say well, because he had no one in Philly, his APG dropped when he went to Denver.
6) 4x scoring champ has a lot to do with him taking 28 shots per game, don't you think? KD scored just as much taking 21 shots. Inefficient and out of control.
7) Woah, I'm not saying he isn't a top 50 player. He clearly is. But Steve Nash has TWO MVP's. Does that lone MVP really hold as much of an argument as you assume?
8) 26.7 PPG all time, again, ballhog maniac. 24000 career points, again, a ballhog out of control.
9) ROTY, congrats.. But how does this help him for his career? Some players took time to adjust (Kobe Bryant). And since we're comparing them in a career retrospective, your ROTY doesn't warrant any points.
10) Allen Iverson was the steals leader but he isn't a great defender. How many times has he made the NBA ALL Defensive teams? ZERO.
11) 2004 USA basketball, guess who took the most shots at a horrible %? AI again. Taking 21 shots and 37 FG%. People blame LeBron but LeBron barely played and when he did, you already knew who was taking the shots! Mind you, this is USA basketball composed of NBA players against international players. There is no way you should take 21 shots when you have capable teammates.
12) Allen Iverson leads the NBA in most seasons with 1000 shots missed. (tied with Wilt). Seriously, for someone who was unguardable, why was he missing so many shots?
13) Allen Iverson ranks horrifically compared to all time greats in PER, TS, WS, you name it. He's BAD. Yet, we have to excuse him because of his size and the fact that he had enough energy to jack up shot after shot? Sorry, not buying it. His career achievements are short and although he did score a lot of points, imagine the scrutiny Westbrook would get taking 28 shots shooting 38% from the field. He gets a lot of smack taking just 18 shots on 46%!

ThompsonTwins
08-13-2014, 12:47 AM
A good offense will beat Iverson becasue he shot 42%

XpLiCiTT
08-13-2014, 01:21 AM
Lol...Basketball to people on PSD is only about WS/PER, nothing else. It's comical how people on here can't just admit Iverson was a great player, all you need is eyes and to see him play. Sure, he wasn't the prototypical "team player". And yeah, he shot a relatively low shooting %. Stats are not everything, take his raw talent into account.

I'm not proclaiming him as GOAT, but he revolutionized the game and is an all-time great. If me saying that means nothing to you, fine, I don't really care at all. But any great player will tell you the same thing. Discussions like these are pointless because you either hate or love Iverson, and guys who hate him will go so deep into his negative stats until they can't dig any deeper.

XpLiCiTT
08-13-2014, 01:27 AM
Allen Iverson ranks horrifically compared to all time greats in PER

He ranks 46th all-time in regular season PER, and 28th all-time in playoff PER. I think "ranks horrifically" is extremely harsh. Nobody is trying to proclaim him as a top 20 player.

FlashBolt
08-13-2014, 02:04 AM
Lol...Basketball to people on PSD is only about WS/PER, nothing else. It's comical how people on here can't just admit Iverson was a great player, all you need is eyes and to see him play. Sure, he wasn't the prototypical "team player". And yeah, he shot a relatively low shooting %. Stats are not everything, take his raw talent into account.

I'm not proclaiming him as GOAT, but he revolutionized the game and is an all-time great. If me saying that means nothing to you, fine, I don't really care at all. But any great player will tell you the same thing. Discussions like these are pointless because you either hate or love Iverson, and guys who hate him will go so deep into his negative stats until they can't dig any deeper.

That is such a zealot post of you. Read the damn title. It's whether or not he is the POUND-FOR-POUND GOAT. So unless you have some factual evidence to back your claim up, there really isn't one. I can't stress that this guy was a team killer who shot way too many shots. All you're saying is we either hate him or love him - which is false considering I did acknowledge he is an all time great. We get that you're a Sixers fan so you have a more biased perception but the facts are there. You don't want to use stats because it DISPROVES Allen Iverson. "Raw physical talent" is not enough to warrant GOAT P4P status. All you need are eyes? Good argument. You see how this goes? You can't argue against stats and if that's the case, you know something is wrong. Stats are there for a reason. It doesn't tell the whole story but whenever someone takes 28 shots a game, shoots below 40%, plays 45 minutes and still can't crack a sufficient amount of assists while also dominating the ball usage as he did, I have a CLEAR representation of the specific player. Here's what I think of Allen Iverson compared to other P4P players.

If you want to sell tickets, sign AI.
If you want a player who is going to come in and play team basketball, sign CP3/Stockton.

ThompsonTwins
08-13-2014, 02:09 AM
Lol...Basketball to people on PSD is only about WS/PER, nothing else. It's comical how people on here can't just admit Iverson was a great player, all you need is eyes and to see him play. Sure, he wasn't the prototypical "team player". And yeah, he shot a relatively low shooting %. Stats are not everything, take his raw talent into account.

I'm not proclaiming him as GOAT, but he revolutionized the game and is an all-time great. If me saying that means nothing to you, fine, I don't really care at all. But any great player will tell you the same thing. Discussions like these are pointless because you either hate or love Iverson, and guys who hate him will go so deep into his negative stats until they can't dig any deeper.

Iverson was tough to guard on most nights and rather entertaining. However a defense could usually count on him being about 10 out of 26 shooting if you're playing decent defense. He really never had those 15 for 24 games. If you team shoots roughly 45-50% you will win.

XpLiCiTT
08-13-2014, 02:23 AM
That is such a zealot post of you. Read the damn title. It's whether or not he is the POUND-FOR-POUND GOAT. So unless you have some factual evidence to back your claim up, there really isn't one. I can't stress that this guy was a team killer who shot way too many shots. All you're saying is we either hate him or love him - which is false considering I did acknowledge he is an all time great. We get that you're a Sixers fan so you have a more biased perception but the facts are there. You don't want to use stats because it DISPROVES Allen Iverson. "Raw physical talent" is not enough to warrant GOAT P4P status. All you need are eyes? Good argument. You see how this goes? You can't argue against stats and if that's the case, you know something is wrong. Stats are there for a reason. It doesn't tell the whole story but whenever someone takes 28 shots a game, shoots below 40%, plays 45 minutes and still can't crack a sufficient amount of assists while also dominating the ball usage as he did, I have a CLEAR representation of the specific player. Here's what I think of Allen Iverson compared to other P4P players.

If you want to sell tickets, sign AI.
If you want a player who is going to come in and play team basketball, sign CP3/Stockton.

I agree with your last statement, even though it is a slight against Iverson. I will gladly speak stats, but you'll just say his WS/48 aren't good so therefore all his stats are irrelevant. Any positive stat I bring up, you'll just try to bring it down with an advanced statistic, I know how it goes and I don't necessarily disagree with some of the arguments you bring up because some of them are very fair.

I have "read the damn title", and apparently a lot of people in here have not because people are acting as if this is an actual "GOAT" thread. Pound for pound, I believe he is the greatest, as do many others. The guy was 5'11 (on a good day) and 160 lbs soaking wet. I don't believe there is a player that small who had more of an impact on games and/or was a better player. That's my opinion, I respect it if you disagree.

I get that he shot a pretty low % (42.5 %). He was a gunner and didn't take the best quality shots. Part of it was because of his poor shooting mentality, and part of it could be attributed to his size and the fact that he would get double teamed often (and still shoot, lol).

You bring up usage and discredit his assist totals. There are 2 players in NBA history with more USG% than Allen Iverson, those are Michael Jordan and Dwyane Wade..both who average less assists. I also wasn't trying to say you didn't acknowledge him as an all-time great, but this "bagwell" dude posted in another thread a few weeks ago telling me Iverson isn't a top 200 player.

Hey maybe I'm just a biased Sixers fan and its completely ludicrous to believe Iverson is "pound-for-pound" one of the best to ever do it...

ThompsonTwins
08-13-2014, 03:08 AM
I'd put the 6 foot Isiah Thomas above him in pound for pound.

Also I think Iverson was more like 6 feet and 175.

Isiah averaged 20 and 10 for 4 straight seasons. Only other player to do that was Oscar Robertson.

That would be an interesting matchup none the less. Isiah and Iverson.

XpLiCiTT
08-13-2014, 03:20 AM
I'd put the 6 foot Isiah Thomas above him in pound for pound.

Also I think Iverson was more like 6 feet and 175.

Isiah averaged 20 and 10 for 4 straight seasons. Only other player to do that was Oscar Robertson.

That would be an interesting matchup none the less. Isiah and Iverson.

Allen Iverson was not 6 foot, nor was he 175, trust me.

It's interesting to actually look at the stats of Isiah vs Iverson. People on here sure do love their PER & WS/48. Iverson was better than Isiah in BOTH..which is shocking because Iverson's WS/48 is not very good at all.

Iverson also averaged more points, steals, rebounds, and less turnovers per game (steals, rebounds, & turnovers are marginal differences, but still).

Crackadalic
08-13-2014, 04:04 AM
Your love for AI is nice. I'd take Calvin Murphy.

Lol that guy never started a game and never had the pressure to be the guy to carry the team. He even had less career assist then the ball hog AI

I can deal with a legit argument between Isiah and AI but Calvin Murphy? Come on bruh

ThompsonTwins
08-13-2014, 05:21 AM
Allen Iverson was not 6 foot, nor was he 175, trust me.

It's interesting to actually look at the stats of Isiah vs Iverson. People on here sure do love their PER & WS/48. Iverson was better than Isiah in BOTH..which is shocking because Iverson's WS/48 is not very good at all.

Iverson also averaged more points, steals, rebounds, and less turnovers per game (steals, rebounds, & turnovers are marginal differences, but still).

I don't get so into PER when comparing across generations and such. I believe the stat is influenced by the teammates they have and how much they have the ball. Players that played in a more "team concept" might not have the outrageous PER or WS. Also certain eras are more team oreinted and like to get everyone the ball etc. Also maybe in the 90's for instance, it was post up more defensive game with better defense all around.

It's always best to just go by watching them play. Yes stats matter too, but mainly the main ones, like FG%, Rebounds, Blocks, etc. I don't dive into stats the say some do and base everything on them. They'll go as far to say that player x is SO much better than player Z because he averages .00000001 more ppg than player z. You get what I'm saying here.
If the stats are good for both players in a comparison, then you have to move on. If player x and player Z both have great stats overall then you have to judge simply by watching them and who they were playing. How well they did against the competition and so on.

For Instance Isiah and Iverson both have the stats for sure. Although one rather key stat is FG% and if a guy taking 30 shots a game is shooting a consistent 42% then if his opponent just shoots the league average of 46% he'll probably win.
Other than that, I'd say that Isiah had more desire, hustle, will to win and was a better leader. You can't put a number on that.

ThompsonTwins
08-13-2014, 05:23 AM
Besides I could make up a better stat rating system better than PER. I don't think PER counts enough for blocks, steals and maybe assist.

A guy that can consistently block shots and change shots and alter the game from inside is a pretty big deal. Just ask Lebron about Duncan.

XpLiCiTT
08-13-2014, 11:26 AM
So now that were discussing Isiah Thomas, someone that you would take over AI, PER, WS/48, and pretty much all other stats become irrelevant. And you resort to AI shooting 42%....how shocking. Isiah shot what? Like 45%?

ThompsonTwins
08-13-2014, 12:10 PM
Anytime a player drops below league average of 45% roughly give or take a bit depending on era, that player can be beaten by an average offensive performance by the opponents. This is why the only time Iverson could make it through a very weak East was when he had Mutombo, Hill, Lynch, Mckie, and Snow. 4 other standout defensive stars.

Also as pertains to Isiah. Isiah had the ability to "go off" and shoot 12 of 17 or there abouts. He would usually do this in the biggest games.

FlashBolt
08-13-2014, 02:10 PM
I agree with your last statement, even though it is a slight against Iverson. I will gladly speak stats, but you'll just say his WS/48 aren't good so therefore all his stats are irrelevant. Any positive stat I bring up, you'll just try to bring it down with an advanced statistic, I know how it goes and I don't necessarily disagree with some of the arguments you bring up because some of them are very fair.

I have "read the damn title", and apparently a lot of people in here have not because people are acting as if this is an actual "GOAT" thread. Pound for pound, I believe he is the greatest, as do many others. The guy was 5'11 (on a good day) and 160 lbs soaking wet. I don't believe there is a player that small who had more of an impact on games and/or was a better player. That's my opinion, I respect it if you disagree.

I get that he shot a pretty low % (42.5 %). He was a gunner and didn't take the best quality shots. Part of it was because of his poor shooting mentality, and part of it could be attributed to his size and the fact that he would get double teamed often (and still shoot, lol).

You bring up usage and discredit his assist totals. There are 2 players in NBA history with more USG% than Allen Iverson, those are Michael Jordan and Dwyane Wade..both who average less assists. I also wasn't trying to say you didn't acknowledge him as an all-time great, but this "bagwell" dude posted in another thread a few weeks ago telling me Iverson isn't a top 200 player.

Hey maybe I'm just a biased Sixers fan and its completely ludicrous to believe Iverson is "pound-for-pound" one of the best to ever do it...

You are right about the USG but guess what? Allen played 41 stone cold minutes per game and at his prime, played upwards of 44 minutes per game. His USG is much more than Jordan/Wade if you consider the fact that he played hard minutes and not even that, he didn't produce extravagant results. Jordan/Wade were EFFICIENT players who when on the court, will provide results with every opportunity they could. Allen did not do that. He had the ball 44 minutes a game and practically stole all of his teammates opportunities because he was in the game for so long. Do you know how many open shots or plays he could have got his teammates? I'm sorry but there is just no way to defend someone who shoots under 40% from the field while taking 28 shots per game. How do you defend that? If J.R. Smith went about taking 28 shots per game and shot under 40%, what do you think will happen to him? Yet we should praise Allen Iverson because he's short, quick, and exciting? I don't have Isiah up there but I do have Stockton and CP3 - both who are universally better than Allen Iverson. At his prime, Isiah shot upwards of 46-49%. Allen Iverson shot 39-45% (mostly around 42% area).

XpLiCiTT
08-13-2014, 03:03 PM
You are right about the USG but guess what? Allen played 41 stone cold minutes per game and at his prime, played upwards of 44 minutes per game. His USG is much more than Jordan/Wade if you consider the fact that he played hard minutes and not even that, he didn't produce extravagant results. Jordan/Wade were EFFICIENT players who when on the court, will provide results with every opportunity they could. Allen did not do that. He had the ball 44 minutes a game and practically stole all of his teammates opportunities because he was in the game for so long. Do you know how many open shots or plays he could have got his teammates? I'm sorry but there is just no way to defend someone who shoots under 40% from the field while taking 28 shots per game. How do you defend that? If J.R. Smith went about taking 28 shots per game and shot under 40%, what do you think will happen to him? Yet we should praise Allen Iverson because he's short, quick, and exciting? I don't have Isiah up there but I do have Stockton and CP3 - both who are universally better than Allen Iverson. At his prime, Isiah shot upwards of 46-49%. Allen Iverson shot 39-45% (mostly around 42% area).

I'm not saying AI is better than Jordan, Wade, Paul, or Stockton. But pound for pound I think he fits the mold of that argument much better than guys like Paul and Stockton...if you ever saw Iverson in person you would understand the guy is an absolute stick..guys like Paul are small, yeah, but they have more muscle on them and width. I get Iverson shot a pretty low percentage (42%) but thats one of the only things I hear guys resort to when arguing against him. His low shooting percentage makes complete sense due to his poor shooting mentality (gunner mentality) and his size..it wasn't really because he was an awful shooter, it was because he didn't take high quality shots and a lot of his shots were altered due to size and double teams.

I watched the guy play religiously, he did not make his teammates worse, contrary to what a lot of haters believe (not saying you're a hater*). He was just a gunner on a bad team with no other scorers, he made the team better by taking on the scoring load..nobody else on the team could score. If he wasn't scoring and shooting the way he did, that Sixers team stood no chance. I don't see why his 6 assists are being completely discredited here.

You also brought up PER earlier and said he's ranks horrifically in that sense. How is 46th all time in reg season PER and 28th all time in playoff PER horrific?

Jamiecballer
08-13-2014, 04:17 PM
I assume you are joking.

why would i be joking? is it a terrible crime for people to have a discussion just because you don't care for it?

Jamiecballer
08-13-2014, 04:18 PM
Anyone ready to address this resume yet?

he played at a time when people looked no closer than the box score stats. end of story.

if he played today he'd get absolutely blasted in the media for his style of play and the inefficiency with which he played.

Jamiecballer
08-13-2014, 04:22 PM
Lol...Basketball to people on PSD is only about WS/PER, nothing else. It's comical how people on here can't just admit Iverson was a great player, all you need is eyes and to see him play. Sure, he wasn't the prototypical "team player". And yeah, he shot a relatively low shooting %. Stats are not everything, take his raw talent into account.

I'm not proclaiming him as GOAT, but he revolutionized the game and is an all-time great. If me saying that means nothing to you, fine, I don't really care at all. But any great player will tell you the same thing. Discussions like these are pointless because you either hate or love Iverson, and guys who hate him will go so deep into his negative stats until they can't dig any deeper.

iverson was incredibly exciting to watch without a doubt and he certainly had the skills to be an all-time great, not a doubt in my mind. but he fell way short of that potential and while i agree with you that he revolutionized the game, it was not in my mind for the better.

FlashBolt
08-13-2014, 10:56 PM
I'm not saying AI is better than Jordan, Wade, Paul, or Stockton. But pound for pound I think he fits the mold of that argument much better than guys like Paul and Stockton...if you ever saw Iverson in person you would understand the guy is an absolute stick..guys like Paul are small, yeah, but they have more muscle on them and width. I get Iverson shot a pretty low percentage (42%) but thats one of the only things I hear guys resort to when arguing against him. His low shooting percentage makes complete sense due to his poor shooting mentality (gunner mentality) and his size..it wasn't really because he was an awful shooter, it was because he didn't take high quality shots and a lot of his shots were altered due to size and double teams.

I watched the guy play religiously, he did not make his teammates worse, contrary to what a lot of haters believe (not saying you're a hater*). He was just a gunner on a bad team with no other scorers, he made the team better by taking on the scoring load..nobody else on the team could score. If he wasn't scoring and shooting the way he did, that Sixers team stood no chance. I don't see why his 6 assists are being completely discredited here.

You also brought up PER earlier and said he's ranks horrifically in that sense. How is 46th all time in reg season PER and 28th all time in playoff PER horrific?

He did make his teammates worse. Look at how Denver did the year they traded AI. They went on to make the WCF. How many times did AI escape the first round since 2001? Only once. You're talking about someone who QUESTIONED why he should show up for practice; isn't that an indication that he doesn't know how to help his team and only cared about HIMSELF? As he said himself, he's their star player and HE shows up to play. Well, it's about a collective effort and though he was their star player, Philly had to show up and play. We can go on and on about him having the persona of someone who is uncoach-able. Again, pound for pound in basketball is much different than in fighting sports such as boxing or UFC. I think you may have interpreted it but the definition is a weight class against another weight class of competition in NBA. What does it matter if CP3 was 15 pounds heavier than AI or Stockton was equally the same weight as AI. Stockton actually looked much THINNER than AI and he played against the most dominating centers of all time. That is minimal when you compare them against a weight class that goes up to 300. You admitted that he didn't take high quality shots - which is because he never cared. Size, double teams.. Well, Muggsy Bogues was 5"3 140 LBS and he shot 46% from the FIELD! So I don't want to hear it about his shots being altered this and that. He was quicker than everybody because he was short and slim.

In Denver, he still couldn't carry them even with Carmelo/Camby and a solid cast with a respectable coach. And he averaged LESS assists than he did with Philly. The way the Sixers was constructed was defensively. Allen wasn't a great defender. Yes, his ego allowed him to guard against MJ, Kobe, and others but he was in no way a great defender. Leading the league in steals doesn't make jack. He was naturally short so steals were much easier considering the way the ball would bounce would reach his hands before it reaches let's say Kobe's hands. Sixers had to build a defensive team because AI had the ball 24/7. 46th all time does rank horribly in PER when you're comparing him to all time greats. Do you see Magic, Jordan, CP3, Stockton, Kobe, and others ranked that low? Look past AI's 46th spot. Who's even there worth mentioning? I see Scottie, Ray Allen, and really, who else worth mentioning? And you really can't compare the playoffs PER. Allen Iverson rarely played in the playoffs compared to other names. Example, KG has played twice as many playoff games as Allen Iverson but he's below him. He's been in the playoffs for much longer while also being older.

east fb knicks
08-13-2014, 11:01 PM
ai> cp3 their is no debate their

but i'd take Stockton and zeke over ai but those guys are first ballot hof's

TheMightyHumph
08-13-2014, 11:49 PM
why would i be joking? is it a terrible crime for people to have a discussion just because you don't care for it?

You would be joking because you're a joker.

TheMightyHumph
08-13-2014, 11:57 PM
I'm not saying AI is better than Jordan, Wade, Paul, or Stockton. But pound for pound I think he fits the mold of that argument much better than guys like Paul and Stockton...if you ever saw Iverson in person you would understand the guy is an absolute stick..guys like Paul are small, yeah, but they have more muscle on them and width. I get Iverson shot a pretty low percentage (42%) but thats one of the only things I hear guys resort to when arguing against him. His low shooting percentage makes complete sense due to his poor shooting mentality (gunner mentality) and his size..it wasn't really because he was an awful shooter, it was because he didn't take high quality shots and a lot of his shots were altered due to size and double teams.

I watched the guy play religiously, he did not make his teammates worse, contrary to what a lot of haters believe (not saying you're a hater*). He was just a gunner on a bad team with no other scorers, he made the team better by taking on the scoring load..nobody else on the team could score. If he wasn't scoring and shooting the way he did, that Sixers team stood no chance. I don't see why his 6 assists are being completely discredited here.

He was on a team that was bad because he was a gunner. He didn't want to share the ball with another shooter. His 6 apg are disregarded because he handled the ball so much. With the fg% he had, he should have been passing the ball more often.

Being short didn't hinder Calvin Murphy's ability to shoot. Or to defend, for that matter.

XpLiCiTT
08-14-2014, 03:00 AM
He was on a team that was bad because he was a gunner. He didn't want to share the ball with another shooter. His 6 apg are disregarded because he handled the ball so much. With the fg% he had, he should have been passing the ball more often.

Being short didn't hinder Calvin Murphy's ability to shoot. Or to defend, for that matter.

The team was good because he was a gunner, you have it mixed up. Like I said, if he wasn't scoring, that team wasn't winning. It's just so funny how anything & everything you can say positive about AI, haters just completely disregard it with some bogus reasoning.

If you're going to legitimately rip on him, at least be willing to give him credit as well. I can't take any of these posts seriously.

Denver-boy
08-14-2014, 03:55 AM
CP's career unlike AI's isn't near being over.

Tiny was 90% of AI's weight. Stockton was 3% heavier, CP3 is 5.7% heavier than AI/ I'd take all three of them over AI in almost every circumstance, unless you wanted a team jumping, selfish, ball dominant, inefficient shooting POS that played like crap in the Finals for some reason.

he's a patriots fan, knew it.

A.I is better than all of those guys, Even they would tell you that. Barkley and KD both think hes best scorer in the game ever! him and melo, was a privilege to watch. And Ill tell you, when they played together, A.I was batman, and melo was robin, he was such a dominate offensive force, they double team a.i so Anthony could shine. if we were better defensively we would be championship team, we would be able to out score any team. in that time.

Monta is beast
08-14-2014, 05:08 AM
imo i.t was better but i.t is my favorite player all time so i could be biased.

Monta is beast
08-14-2014, 05:11 AM
most the teams a.i played on would have averaged 70 ppg without him so his fg% isnt a good stat to go by. defenses consistently targeted him every single night with his frame all the injuries a.i is/was/always will be a ****in g

koreancabbage
08-14-2014, 08:25 AM
Besides I could make up a better stat rating system better than PER. I don't think PER counts enough for blocks, steals and maybe assist.

A guy that can consistently block shots and change shots and alter the game from inside is a pretty big deal. Just ask Lebron about Duncan.

I would like to see you try.

ShawnKemp
08-15-2014, 02:22 AM
most the teams a.i played on would have averaged 70 ppg without him so his fg% isnt a good stat to go by. defenses consistently targeted him every single night with his frame all the injuries a.i is/was/always will be a ****in g

That's how the teams were purposely designed around him. It was actually pretty good to do it that way.

FlashBolt
08-15-2014, 02:24 AM
The team was good because he was a gunner, you have it mixed up. Like I said, if he wasn't scoring, that team wasn't winning. It's just so funny how anything & everything you can say positive about AI, haters just completely disregard it with some bogus reasoning.

If you're going to legitimately rip on him, at least be willing to give him credit as well. I can't take any of these posts seriously.

Game 3 vs Bucks, they lost by 6 points without AI I believe... Soooo...

2-ONE-5
08-15-2014, 08:59 AM
but they LOST sow hats the difference really? how can you use a 1 game sample size?

todu82
08-15-2014, 09:03 AM
Iverson was a good player back in the day but he's far from the best player of all time.

2-ONE-5
08-15-2014, 09:10 AM
yea no body said he was the best player of all time...

COOLbeans
08-15-2014, 10:22 AM
People who dislike Allen Iverson (in terms of basketball) are stupid

D-Leethal
08-15-2014, 10:44 AM
I'll take Larry Brown's word over any spreadsheet sniffer here.

ewing
08-16-2014, 09:55 AM
how much does he weigh?

D-Leethal
08-16-2014, 10:09 AM
Do you guys think it wasn't in the coaches game plan for AI to shoot or something?

"Pass the ball to Tyrone Hill!!! He has a higher TS%!!!!" - PSD

"You are an idiot" - Larry Brown

XpLiCiTT
08-16-2014, 11:32 AM
Do you guys think it wasn't in the coaches game plan for AI to shoot or something?

"Pass the ball to Tyrone Hill!!! He has a higher TS%!!!!" - PSD

"You are an idiot" - Larry Brown

Great post hahaa so true

Jamiecballer
08-16-2014, 01:33 PM
Do you guys think it wasn't in the coaches game plan for AI to shoot or something?

"Pass the ball to Tyrone Hill!!! He has a higher TS%!!!!" - PSD

"You are an idiot" - Larry Brown
I'll bet my life Brown implored him to attack the basket and create open looks for his teammates more.

FlashBolt
08-16-2014, 02:25 PM
Some of you guys just don't understand that AI took the ball out of his teammates hands and missed shots that could've been better shot opportunities for his teammates. When you play 40+ minutes and handle the ball as long as AI did, 6 assists should come easy. He took so many shots and you can't tell me another teammate didn't have a better shot. I mean he shot under 40% for quite some seasons.. SOMEONE had to have had a better shot than that.

2-ONE-5
08-17-2014, 12:53 PM
loll now he took the ball out of their hands. they werent good scorers and the intentionally deferred to him most of the time. but i mean Aaron McKie didnt have the best year of his career in '01 playing next to AI or anything

XpLiCiTT
08-17-2014, 01:13 PM
Some of you guys just don't understand that AI took the ball out of his teammates hands and missed shots that could've been better shot opportunities for his teammates. When you play 40+ minutes and handle the ball as long as AI did, 6 assists should come easy. He took so many shots and you can't tell me another teammate didn't have a better shot. I mean he shot under 40% for quite some seasons.. SOMEONE had to have had a better shot than that.

No the Sixers ****ing sucked outside of AI and all his teammates deferred to him. There was literally not one other person on the team that could remotely score. Him taking the shots was the best bet for the team. You keep trying to say he "shot under 40%" as if it was his lifetime average and happened every season..it was for 2 seasons out of 17.

TheMightyHumph
08-17-2014, 01:47 PM
No the Sixers ****ing sucked outside of AI and all his teammates deferred to him. There was literally not one other person on the team that could remotely score. Him taking the shots was the best bet for the team. You keep trying to say he "shot under 40%" as if it was his lifetime average and happened every season..it was for 2 seasons out of 17.

I think AI deferred to his teammates' defensive skills, so that he didn't have to play defense.

TheMightyHumph
08-17-2014, 01:49 PM
People who dislike Allen Iverson (in terms of basketball) are stupid

Well, now there's a statement that pretty much sums up AI fans.

TheMightyHumph
08-17-2014, 01:51 PM
I'll bet my life Brown implored him to attack the basket and create open looks for his teammates more.

Of course. That's why Larry wanted out of Philly soon after.

TheMightyHumph
08-17-2014, 01:55 PM
I'll take Larry Brown's word over any spreadsheet sniffer here.

Larry Brown has been known to talk out of all the orifices of his body simultaneously.

Anyone who would take anything Larry Brown says seriously has to be very naive

.

D-Leethal
08-17-2014, 02:25 PM
Larry Brown has been known to talk out of all the orifices of his body simultaneously.

Anyone who would take anything Larry Brown says seriously has to be very naive

.

Anyone who takes PSD's faulty logic over the unanimous belief amongst the NBA world has to be very naive.

XpLiCiTT
08-17-2014, 02:34 PM
People who think he didn't play ANY defense or pass to his teammates clearly never watched him play. Or at least rarely watched him play.

TheMightyHumph
08-17-2014, 02:36 PM
Anyone who takes PSD's faulty logic over the unanimous belief amongst the NBA world has to be very naive.

Words are not belief

TheMightyHumph
08-17-2014, 02:38 PM
People who think he didn't play ANY defense or pass to his teammates clearly never watched him play. Or at least rarely watched him play.

Well, it is true that he ran back to the other end of the court after he missed a shot, if that's what you mean by playing defense.

XpLiCiTT
08-17-2014, 02:39 PM
Well, it is true that he ran back to the other end of the court after he missed a shot, if that's what you mean by playing defense.

You don't know what you're talking about. Its okay though.

D-Leethal
08-17-2014, 02:40 PM
No scorer is going to produce with tremendous efficiency around the supporting cast Iverson dealt with in Philly.

He goes to Denver, plays with Melo and his efficiency miraculously spikes up in a major way. This is not rocket science.

Spreadsheet sodomizers, please learn to how analyze the game outside of a vaccum.

One guy (Dikembe Mutombo, for example), having a higher TS% doesn't mean team your better off feeding him instead of AI. Basketball can not be dissected that way and never will be.

TheMightyHumph
08-17-2014, 02:46 PM
No scorer is going to produce with tremendous efficiency around the supporting cast Iverson dealt with in Philly.

He goes to Denver, plays with Melo and his efficiency miraculously spikes up in a major way. This is not rocket science.

Spreadsheet sodomizers, please learn to how analyze the game outside of a vaccum.

One guy (Dikembe Mutombo, for example), having a higher TS% doesn't mean team your better off feeding him instead of AI. Basketball can not be dissected that way and never will be.

You are correct. Basketball is dissected by watching the game.

TheMightyHumph
08-17-2014, 02:48 PM
You don't know what you're talking about. Its okay though.

Yeah, I know. You and the other AI rabid groupies are the only guys who saw AI play.

D-Leethal
08-17-2014, 02:49 PM
You are correct. Basketball is dissected by watching the game.

And with that, you would understand on a team with zero offensive talent outside of 1 player, that 1 player is going to be heavily relied on to score the ball, and with that, he is going to be forced into a slew of tough shots due to the fact that his teammates can't get a shot off against a defender, let alone make one.

TheMightyHumph
08-17-2014, 03:07 PM
And with that, you would understand on a team with zero offensive talent outside of 1 player, that 1 player is going to be heavily relied on to score the ball, and with that, he is going to be forced into a slew of tough shots due to the fact that his teammates can't get a shot off against a defender, let alone make one.

And with that, you understand that only a team that could rebound and play excellent defense could get AI and his slew of shots to the Finals.

The defense and the rebounds were the reason AI could get off such a ridiculous amount of shots.

D-Leethal
08-17-2014, 03:11 PM
And with that, you understand that only a team that could rebound and play excellent defense could get AI and his slew of shots to the Finals.

The defense and the rebounds were the reason AI could get off such a ridiculous amount of shots.

And without a guy like AI who can score on anyone, anywhere, with 5 sets of eyes geared towards stopping him those defense and rebounds get you nowhere.

Are you arguing its a team game and you need balance?

Gee whiz, ground breaking stuff there.

TheMightyHumph
08-17-2014, 03:19 PM
And without a guy like AI who can score on anyone, anywhere, with 5 sets of eyes geared towards stopping him those defense and rebounds get you nowhere.

Are you arguing its a team game and you need balance?

Correct. And that was the team that had the balance to get AI to the Finals.

Damn, it's about time that you got it.

XpLiCiTT
08-17-2014, 03:25 PM
Correct. And that was the team that had the balance to get AI to the Finals.

Damn, it's about time that you got it.

The "team got AI to the finals"...lol at that thought.

TheMightyHumph
08-17-2014, 03:41 PM
The "team got AI to the finals"...lol at that thought.

Yuk it up, pal.

Laughter is good for the soul.

bagwell368
08-17-2014, 09:27 PM
he's a patriots fan, knew it.

A.I is better than all of those guys, Even they would tell you that. Barkley and KD both think hes best scorer in the game ever! him and melo, was a privilege to watch.

Who believes what athletes say? Also, athletes often arrive at conclusions that are wrong - if not - why do they need a coaching staff?


And Ill tell you, when they played together, A.I was batman, and melo was robin, he was such a dominate offensive force, they double team a.i so Anthony could shine. if we were better defensively we would be championship team, we would be able to out score any team. in that time.

Yeah, whatever... sounds like a Broncos fan...

bagwell368
08-17-2014, 09:44 PM
Lol...Basketball to people on PSD is only about WS/PER, nothing else. It's comical how people on here can't just admit Iverson was a great player, all you need is eyes and to see him play. Sure, he wasn't the prototypical "team player". And yeah, he shot a relatively low shooting %. Stats are not everything, take his raw talent into account.

I'm not proclaiming him as GOAT, but he revolutionized the game and is an all-time great. If me saying that means nothing to you, fine, I don't really care at all. But any great player will tell you the same thing. Discussions like these are pointless because you either hate or love Iverson, and guys who hate him will go so deep into his negative stats until they can't dig any deeper.

I never got into any advanced stats until about 2010, or about 45 years after I started to play, and about 13 years after I started to Coach. I didn't appreciate AI's game or personality - and I've got even more ammunition now. He was a self obsessed player with lots of drive and will power - with no sense of when to defer or share. Just a guy with one speed on offense, and about 1/2 speed on D. I also dislike Wilkins game very much too - never liked talented and selfish players.

You're right, AI sycophants cannot be reasoned with, it might be the hole in their hearts not filled since the '82 ring, or maybe it's a personal identification with an underdog - whatever it is, of all the bizarre illnesses that beset people here, this is the one with least amount of statistical or subjective evidence behind it. Wilkins was well better than AI. I notice nobody took me on when I said as an all around player, that could fit into most teams without personal or style issues - Mo Cheeks buries AI. Much better defender, much better passer, tooks his shots when they showed - didn't force them, better fit to his team(s). A professional, not a sideshow like AI. Cheeks should be in the HOF BTW.

TheMightyHumph
08-18-2014, 01:16 PM
Mo Cheeks remains very underappreciated.