PDA

View Full Version : Has Player Ever Won A Title On His Own?



RocketLoc80
08-10-2014, 10:54 AM
That seems to be the theme nowadays to bash ever other player like Dwight,Lebron and CP3 is that they can`t win a championship without help. Well it seems that people have been brainwashed that Jordan and Kobe won titles by themselves which is just further from the truth.So can anybody explain to me has anybody won a title by themselves>?

jaydubb
08-10-2014, 10:55 AM
Never has never will.. Basketball is a team game.

chi-townlove1
08-10-2014, 10:57 AM
Is this a dupe account... 2 huge troll threads basically about Lebron

Cal827
08-10-2014, 10:58 AM
Nobody has won a title on their own. It's a team game, and many of the greats who won titles had help too (Jordan had Pippen, Kobe had Shaq/Gasol, Lebron had Wade/Bosh, etc).

The only people nowadays who say that a player won a title on their own are superglued to said player's nutsack harder than the groupies.

Deception
08-10-2014, 11:05 AM
My NBA 2K MyPlayer did

ManRam
08-10-2014, 11:06 AM
The technical answer is no.

Dirk's probably the name you'll hear the most here, but Terry was REALLY REALLY good and the rest of those guys played just about as great as you could ever have hoped in the Finals. It was certainly a team effort and a huge upset at that too. He couldn't have done it if they all didn't step up, but at the same time he did carry them tremendously well. But he wasn't playing with a fellow all star that year and got past multiple teams that had multiple ones (LAL: Kobe and Pau; OKC: Westy and KD; and obviously Miami).

But yeah, you can rule out all the other recent champs, including Detroit in 2004. Houston in 94 maybe? Drexler wasn't there so Hakeem really carried the load. Nothing stands out in the 80s (Lakers, Celtics, Lakers, Celtics) . Philly had Malone, Dr. J and Cheeks. Then you're in the 70s and that's just so long ago and in such a different era/league that it's not relevant.

Jarvo
08-10-2014, 11:13 AM
The technical answer is no.

Dirk's probably the name you'll hear the most here, but Terry was REALLY REALLY good and the rest of those guys played just about as great as you could ever have hoped in the Finals. It was certainly a team effort and a huge upset at that too. He couldn't have done it if they all didn't step up, but at the same time he did carry them tremendously well. But he wasn't playing with a fellow all star that year and got past multiple teams that had multiple ones (LAL: Kobe and Pau; OKC: Westy and KD; and obviously Miami).

But yeah, you can rule out all the other recent champs, including Detroit in 2004. Houston in 94 maybe? Drexler wasn't there so Hakeem really carried the load. Nothing stands out in the 80s (Lakers, Celtics, Lakers, Celtics) . Philly had Malone, Dr. J and Cheeks. Then you're in the 70s and that's just so long ago and in such a different era/league that it's not relevant.


Or Wade

WOwolfOL
08-10-2014, 11:16 AM
Wade's first title, that Heat team was nowhere near stacked. That was the closest I think we've come.

flea
08-10-2014, 11:16 AM
Hakeem in 94 and Duncan in 03 are the correct answers. For any wise guys, yes other people touched the ball on those teams but go look up the stats. They carried their teams on both sides of the floor.

PhillyFaninLA
08-10-2014, 11:19 AM
I think a better question is who has one without a complete bench and a second option.

nycericanguy
08-10-2014, 11:22 AM
Well first, Dwight and CP3 both have superstar players on their team...

The only current stars that I can think of that have never had another star with them are Melo, Love & Rose...

Though I guess Melo did have AI for that one full year.

beasted86
08-10-2014, 11:25 AM
This is a lame discussion because it mostly relates to brainwashed basketball fans who only care about offense and scoring. As in if "X" player constitutes 40% of said team's offensive usage "he won" the title for that team.

Let's totally ignore every players defensive contribution which is the only way a team even make it that far is by having elite team defense. We saw it just this past season with the Knicks that having one great scorer with a trash defense you can't even make the playoffs let alone win a title... but it's okay, let's continue this played out brainwash rhetoric that one man wins championships....

valade16
08-10-2014, 11:25 AM
Hakeem in 94 and Duncan in 03 are the correct answers. For any wise guys, yes other people touched the ball on those teams but go look up the stats. They carried their teams on both sides of the floor.

The least help I can think of are the 94 Rockets, 03 Spurs, 06 Heat and 11 Mavs.

mightybosstone
08-10-2014, 11:31 AM
Hakeem in 94 and Duncan in 03 are the correct answers. For any wise guys, yes other people touched the ball on those teams but go look up the stats. They carried their teams on both sides of the floor.

In the last 20 years, I'd totally agree with this. The Mavs often get lumped into that group, but both Terry and Chandler are a hell of a lot better than any two teammates Hakeem and Duncan had on those two title teams.

Goose17
08-10-2014, 11:38 AM
Hakeem is the only one who could be legitimately argued for. But even then he still had a team, he still had guys helping him get open, getting the ball to him at the right time, helping on defense etc.

It's a team sport. End of.

TheNumber37
08-10-2014, 11:42 AM
Wade's first title, that Heat team was nowhere near stacked. That was the closest I think we've come.

Right, they just had Veteran HOF who produced big like Shaq, AlonZo Mourning and Gary Payton

valade16
08-10-2014, 11:44 AM
This is a lame discussion because it mostly relates to brainwashed basketball fans who only care about offense and scoring. As in if "X" player constitutes 40% of said team's offensive usage "he won" the title for that team.

Let's totally ignore every players defensive contribution which is the only way a team even make it that far is by having elite team defense. We saw it just this past season with the Knicks that having one great scorer with a trash defense you can't even make the playoffs let alone win a title... but it's okay, let's continue this played out brainwash rhetoric that one man wins championships....

To me this is an example of taking the words literally instead of understanding what is meant when someone says that. Obviously no one truly thinks a player played 5 on 1 and won.

But logically we can see that some teams are better and have better players than others. This means some teams are worse than others. Now we see degrees of talent and therefore can determine which teams that won a title had more or less talent than others.

It seems to me your way of thinking is to say that "every team that won a title is exactly as good as each other".
If that is NOT what you are saying then how are your views any different?

beasted86
08-10-2014, 11:49 AM
To me this is an example of taking the words literally instead of understanding what is meant when someone says that. Obviously no one truly thinks a player played 5 on 1 and won.

But logically we can see that some teams are better and have better players than others. This means some teams are worse than others. Now we see degrees of talent and therefore can determine which teams that won a title had more or less talent than others.

It seems to me your way of thinking is to say that "every team that won a title is exactly as good as each other".
If that is NOT what you are saying then how are your views any different?

In a way I am sort of saying every team that win a title is as good as each other because they all played defense at an exceptionally high level. You don't play that high level of defense with just one player. There also hasn't been a team to win a title with a poor defense.

So, the answer regardless is no one player had had an expansive impact where I'd say he has earned over 50% of his team's success both offensively and defensively simultaneously.

ThuglifeJ
08-10-2014, 11:50 AM
Iverson and Kidd almost.

flea
08-10-2014, 11:50 AM
In the last 20 years, I'd totally agree with this. The Mavs often get lumped into that group, but both Terry and Chandler are a hell of a lot better than any two teammates Hakeem and Duncan had on those two title teams.

And the other future HOFer, Marion. That was just a well-built veteran team.

valade16
08-10-2014, 11:53 AM
In a way I am sort of saying every team that win a title is as good as each other because they all played defense at an exceptionally high level. You don't play that high level of defense with just one player. There also hasn't been a team to win a title with a poor defense.

So, the answer regardless is no one player had had an expansive impact where I'd say he has earned over 50% of his team's success both offensively and defensively simultaneously.

But even defensively would you agree some championship teams are better at it then others?

KnicksorBust
08-10-2014, 11:59 AM
Hakeem in 94 and Duncan in 03 are the correct answers. For any wise guys, yes other people touched the ball on those teams but go look up the stats. They carried their teams on both sides of the floor.

Beat me to it. :)


Well first, Dwight and CP3 both have superstar players on their team...

The only current stars that I can think of that have never had another star with them are Melo, Love & Rose...

Though I guess Melo did have AI for that one full year.

Melo had more success with Billups than AI...


The least help I can think of are the 94 Rockets, 03 Spurs, 06 Heat and 11 Mavs.

Wade had a historic Finals performance but Shaq still averaged 18ppg/10rpg on 61% FG during the 06 Playoffs. He was an absolute monster closing out the Bulls with a 30/20 game 6 performance, and a 28/16 game 6 performance to close out the Pistons to get to the Finals. Wade wasn't really "on his own" during that run.


And the other future HOFer, Marion. That was just a well-built veteran team.

And future HOFer, Jason Kidd.

#1 Romo fan
08-10-2014, 12:10 PM
And future HOFer, Jason Kidd.

And future HOFer Peja Stojakovic and others key role players such as Caron Butler, Deshawn Stevenson, Brendan Haywood, J J Berea, Corey Brewer, Ian Mahimi, Rodrigue Beaubois, and of course their best backup "The Custodian" Brian Cardinal.

beasted86
08-10-2014, 12:13 PM
But even defensively would you agree some championship teams are better at it then others?

What is your point? One player out of 15 made a whole team's defense better than another championship team's defense?

flea
08-10-2014, 12:14 PM
Peja and Kidd weren't at a HOFER level though. Matrix still was.

ManRam
08-10-2014, 12:23 PM
Or Wade

It's not as good of an example as Dirk tho. Shaq was still good. In fact, he was first-team all-nba that year. 18-10 in the playoffs with great defense is something. I should have mentioned it, that was a silly omission, but it isn't the best example at all. Wade's playoff run was an all-time great and a tremendous example of how far one player can carry a team, for sure. But there was talent there.

arlubas
08-10-2014, 12:27 PM
Closest thing I've seen, were the 94 Rockets and the 11 Mavs. Both teams had valuable pieces, Houston with guys like Horry and Cassell as youngsters and a former All-Star in Otis Thorpe plus some solid backcourt players and Dallas with a lot of veteran guys who knew their way around and were all fighting for one common goal. But lets not kid ourselves, if those teams didn't have their alpha dogs they probably don't get out of the first round of the POs. They were both extremely well constructed teams who complemented their superstars' games perfectly.

ManRam
08-10-2014, 12:30 PM
Hakeem in 94 and Duncan in 03 are the correct answers. For any wise guys, yes other people touched the ball on those teams but go look up the stats. They carried their teams on both sides of the floor.

I should have mentioned the Spurs, but I don't quite see how Duncan in 03 trumps Dirk in 2011

hugepatsfan
08-10-2014, 12:46 PM
No one is criticizing guys for needing help. What people are criticizing is the league wide trend of maneuvering yourself into that situation 2-3 years out in advance. Star players are taking on the role of GM and the GMs are becoming nothing more than recruiters/guys that can do math to sneak around the cap. That's what people don't like. The idea that players need help has always been true. It's just the way they go about getting that help nowadays that irks people.

flea
08-10-2014, 12:49 PM
I should have mentioned the Spurs, but I don't quite see how Duncan in 03 trumps Dirk in 2011

Why not? Defensively there is no argument, it was a savant performance by one of the league's all time greats. He had almost twice as many rebounds, over 5 assists per game, better eFG and only 2.5 or so less points as a nonshooter.

AIRMAR72
08-10-2014, 12:50 PM
hakeem in 94 and duncan in 03 are the correct answers. For any wise guys, yes other people touched the ball on those teams but go look up the stats. They carried their teams on both sides of the floor.correct!!

flea
08-10-2014, 12:50 PM
The pace of games was way slower in 03 too, and the supporting casthe for Dirk was way better.

PurpleLynch
08-10-2014, 01:16 PM
Chamberlain in 1967.

Chronz
08-10-2014, 01:41 PM
Iverson and Kidd almost.

Iverson didn't even come close.

Chronz
08-10-2014, 01:43 PM
The pace of games was way slower in 03 too, and the supporting casthe for Dirk was way better.

Yup. Duncan had to work with less but he also had to deal with lesser teams. Kobe and Shaq imploding and dealing with a bevvy of injuries up and down the roster, Dirk and C-Webb both succumbed to injury. He did beat the Nets but they weren't world beaters.

Chronz
08-10-2014, 01:44 PM
what is your point? One player out of 15 made a whole team's defense better than another championship team's defense?

kg.

xnick5757
08-10-2014, 01:49 PM
Hakeem in '94 is the only one

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/1994.html


Only player with a PER over 16.1 (Otis Thorpe - 16.1, Horry/Smith - 14.2); 15.0 is league average

Only player with a playoff DRtg of under 100



seriously, check out that roster :)

He basically won it with a roster full of league average or worse guys, which is what I consider "winning on your own"

TheIlladelph16
08-10-2014, 01:51 PM
No one is criticizing guys for needing help. What people are criticizing is the league wide trend of maneuvering yourself into that situation 2-3 years out in advance. Star players are taking on the role of GM and the GMs are becoming nothing more than recruiters/guys that can do math to sneak around the cap. That's what people don't like. The idea that players need help has always been true. It's just the way they go about getting that help nowadays that irks people.

In a league where the players have been at the mercy of GMs for the vast majority of its existence, I have zero problem with players doing this. I understand why some people don't like it, but the shift in power from executives to the players can be argued as a good thing. I'll never really understand why people think that a GM recruiting or trading for multiple All-Stars is A-Okay, but when the players decide to make that happen through FA its a massive problem.

TheMightyHumph
08-10-2014, 02:22 PM
Hakeem in 94 and Duncan in 03 are the correct answers. For any wise guys, yes other people touched the ball on those teams but go look up the stats. They carried their teams on both sides of the floor.

Those two are good selections. I would also add Wilt in '67, Rick Barry in '75 and Julius (ABA) in '76

RocketLoc80
08-10-2014, 02:31 PM
Skip Bayless thinks Jordan and Kobe won on their own

WOwolfOL
08-10-2014, 02:40 PM
Hakeem in '94 is the only one

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/1994.html


Only player with a PER over 16.1 (Otis Thorpe - 16.1, Horry/Smith - 14.2); 15.0 is league average

Only player with a playoff DRtg of under 100



seriously, check out that roster :)

He basically won it with a roster full of league average or worse guys, which is what I consider "winning on your own"
He won it because somebody retired.

smith&wesson
08-10-2014, 03:05 PM
That seems to be the theme nowadays to bash ever other player like Dwight,Lebron and CP3 is that they can`t win a championship without help. Well it seems that people have been brainwashed that Jordan and Kobe won titles by themselves which is just further from the truth.So can anybody explain to me has anybody won a title by themselves>?

Bill Russell .... he made every one on his team better.

smith&wesson
08-10-2014, 03:06 PM
Skip Bayless thinks Jordan and Kobe won on their own

jordan and kobe had the most help imo.

curtcocaine
08-10-2014, 03:08 PM
Lebron when he played for the heat.

east fb knicks
08-10-2014, 03:32 PM
hakeem did it twice if you look at that roster it was nothing special

ewing was 1 lay up away from doing it:mad:

Iverson got his team to the final and was close

Jason kidd was close when he played on the nets also

east fb knicks
08-10-2014, 03:34 PM
He won it because somebody retired.

so what nobody has done it since mj left either hakeem was a very special player

WOwolfOL
08-10-2014, 03:35 PM
The Bulls would've killed the Rockets in 94 and 95 if Jordan hadn't retired.

smith&wesson
08-10-2014, 03:36 PM
I think iverson did the most with the least help.

smith&wesson
08-10-2014, 03:37 PM
The Bulls would've killed the Rockets in 94 and 95 if Jordan hadn't retired.

Jordan had arguably the best supporting cast of all time.

east fb knicks
08-10-2014, 03:38 PM
The Bulls would've killed the Rockets in 94 and 95 if Jordan hadn't retired.

obviously mj was the goat but it still doesn't change the fact it was done and you can't take that away from the dream

WOwolfOL
08-10-2014, 03:39 PM
Jordan had arguably the best supporting cast of all time.
The first 3-peat, not sure I agree at all. However, the point I was making was that if he hadn't retired, Hakeem wouldn't be mentioned in this thread. IMO

WOwolfOL
08-10-2014, 03:40 PM
obviously mj was the goat but it still doesn't change the fact it was done and you can't take that away from the dream
I realize that.

east fb knicks
08-10-2014, 03:40 PM
I think iverson did the most with the least help.

meh I think patrick ewing had less help

IversonIsKrazy
08-10-2014, 04:08 PM
Not really, team sport. But the most closest to it I'd say:
Duncan's 03 Spurs. I'd say Hakeem still had 4 guys averaging double digits, Wade still had Shaq & Williams. And that 2011 Dallas team was a fully balanced team.

TheMightyHumph
08-10-2014, 04:15 PM
I think iverson did the most with the least help.

Pure fantasy

Verbal Christ
08-10-2014, 04:29 PM
Jordan was on record saying that he felt that if his teams had to have faced Dream in his prime that they wouldn't have won. I'm sure that may be a bunch of posturing, since both players have the upmost admiration for one another many people forget that Houston had Mad Max Vernon Maxwell who always seemed to play MJ super tough. It was a bad matchup for Chicago. MJ had his shot in 95, but couldn't get past Shaq.

Great read on the topic: http://duytano.blogspot.com/2013/04/michael-jordan-vs-hakeem-olajuwon.html

amos1er
08-10-2014, 04:30 PM
Yes, Lebron in 2012 and 2013... He dragged a hobbled Bosh and Wade kicking and screaming to back to back championships. He would have gotten a three-peat if those two had showed up and also the rest of the team. Some may credit Allen for his miracle three in last years finals game six, and the fact that Lebron was a shell of him self for the first six games, but I still give Lebron credit for that as well. He willed Allen into making that shot even after his back to back missed in the clutch and his great play in the fourth quarter of game four against the Spurs second and third stringers was down right brilliant. So yes, Lebron basically did it all by himself. People who say that he had a super team are only "Kobephiles" and "Jordanauts". Gasol and Pippen are both better than Wade and Bynum and Rodman are both better than Bosh.

Hawkeye15
08-10-2014, 04:32 PM
The Bulls would've killed the Rockets in 94 and 95 if Jordan hadn't retired.

the loss of Horace Grant goes almost completely unnoticed by most. Orlando beat them because of it..

seikou8
08-10-2014, 04:38 PM
Yes, Lebron in 2012 and 2013... He dragged a hobbled Bosh and Wade kicking and screaming to back to back championships. He would have gotten a three-peat if those two had showed up and also the rest of the team. Some may credit Allen for his miracle three in last years finals game six, and the fact that Lebron was a shell of him self for the first six games, but I still give Lebron credit for that as well. He willed Allen into making that shot even after his back to back missed in the clutch and his great play in the fourth quarter of game four against the Spurs second and third stringers was down right brilliant. So yes, Lebron basically did it all by himself. People who say that he had a super team are only "Kobephiles" and "Jordanauts". Gasol and Pippen are both better than Wade and Bynum and Rodman are both better than Bosh.

u are trying way too hard in a thread that were lebron was barely even mentioned but if thats your thing

amos1er
08-10-2014, 06:04 PM
u are trying way too hard in a thread that were lebron was barely even mentioned but if thats your thing

Who's trying brah... His PER and WS/48 speak for them selves. Case closed.

HoopKing
08-10-2014, 06:12 PM
Shaq. He would of won that ring with any decent wing player in the year 2000 and 2001 for sure.

mightybosstone
08-10-2014, 06:21 PM
Chamberlain in 1967.

Ummm.... What? I'm guessing you didn't know that Hal Greer, Billy Cunningham and Chet Walker all made the Hall of Fame. Hell, Greer averaged 28/6/5 in the playoffs that year and Walker averaged 22/8/2 with a WS/48 over .200. That's about as far away from "winning a title by yourself" as you can possibly get. That team was totally stacked.

mightybosstone
08-10-2014, 06:22 PM
Shaq. He would of won that ring with any decent wing player in the year 2000 and 2001 for sure.

But he didn't. He had Kobe Bryant. Not a great example, dude.

slashsnake
08-10-2014, 07:38 PM
The Bulls would've killed the Rockets in 94 and 95 if Jordan hadn't retired.

Probably. But he wasn't playing. Could argue rings would be different had Magic not retired, or Shaq and Kobe gotten along better. Or Wade's knees had held up a couple more years. You could probably find an odd situation for every single year which a championship was won and say "if it wasn't for X he wouldn't have won that year".

slashsnake
08-10-2014, 07:39 PM
I think iverson did the most with the least help.

That's a good one. He did have some great help on D. But when Theo Ratliff (and later Dikembe when he was traded for) are your #2 scorer, you are getting to the finals without much help on offensive side.

TheMightyHumph
08-11-2014, 12:11 AM
Ummm.... What? I'm guessing you didn't know that Hal Greer, Billy Cunningham and Chet Walker all made the Hall of Fame. Hell, Greer averaged 28/6/5 in the playoffs that year and Walker averaged 22/8/2 with a WS/48 over .200. That's about as far away from "winning a title by yourself" as you can possibly get. That team was totally stacked.

Greer's HOF career was coming to a close, Walker and Cunningham's HOF careers were in their infancy.

Luke Jackson was the starting PF and Wali Jones the starting PG. Wilt shot over 60%, had three times as many rebounds as any other member of the team, twice as many assists as any other member of the team, lead the team in scoring, I assume he lead the team in blocks and was the defensive stopper on the team.

Yeah, I'll put Wilt on that list.

TheMightyHumph
08-11-2014, 12:14 AM
the loss of Horace Grant goes almost completely unnoticed by most. Orlando beat them because of it..

Well that, and Jordan wasn't in to basketball shape.

Man, I remember MJ on the bench breathing REALLY hard and sweating like I had never seen him sweat.

Alayla
08-11-2014, 12:16 AM
No

TheMightyHumph
08-11-2014, 12:17 AM
No

Yes

More-Than-Most
08-11-2014, 12:24 AM
Every player except lebron basically... Jordan and Kobe did it themselves even though they had some of the most stacked teams ever

Corey
08-11-2014, 12:49 AM
Iverson and Kidd almost.

Kidd's finals team was kinda loaded. Pretty sure Kidd, Jefferson and Martin all averaged 16-17ppg, and that's with Kittles and Harris in double figures as well. Pretty strong bench, too.

ThuglifeJ
08-11-2014, 02:44 AM
Shaq. He would of won that ring with any decent wing player in the year 2000 and 2001 for sure.

Those guys weren't 'decent' though. Kobe, Vince, Tmac, ai...they were phenomenal.

They make wing players now days look like crap..

ThuglifeJ
08-11-2014, 02:48 AM
Kidd's finals team was kinda loaded. Pretty sure Kidd, Jefferson and Martin all averaged 16-17ppg, and that's with Kittles and Harris in double figures as well. Pretty strong bench, too.

That was all Kidd though. They were nothing without him. Maybe it was mostly Kidd and relied all on him

Redrum187
08-11-2014, 02:52 AM
Or Wade

Wade had the refs in 2006... he also had Shaq... 18.4/10/1.5 averaged in 23 playoff games. That is definitely considered star quality.

Redrum187
08-11-2014, 02:53 AM
My best guess would be Dirk Nowitzki. Every player played their role, but Dirk played like God Himself. He was even better than LeBron James during that post season.

TheSilentBang
08-11-2014, 03:13 AM
Who's trying brah... His PER and WS/48 speak for them selves. Case closed.

Kobe has an MVP. You need to change your sig.

shep33
08-11-2014, 03:15 AM
Hakeem might be the closest for me

amos1er
08-11-2014, 03:57 AM
Kobe has an MVP. You need to change your sig.

This was based on age 28.

arlubas
08-11-2014, 04:10 AM
Well that, and Jordan wasn't in to basketball shape.

Man, I remember MJ on the bench breathing REALLY hard and sweating like I had never seen him sweat.
Man, that excuse gets played out so damn much ever since then. Jordan wasn't out of basketball shape, he actually was still a top10 player in those playoffs (some would put him top5), it's just that the Magic had a better team, period. I don't get why people choose to leave the '95 PO exit of the Bulls, I guess it makes for a better story.

For the record MJ was 2nd in both PPG and SPG for the 1995 playoffs, averaging 31.5 PPG, 6.5 RPG, 4.5 APG & 2.3 SPG. Out of shape? Give me a frickin' break.. He wasn't out of shape, not by a longshot, he just wasn't the undisputed god that we were used to seeing the seasons before that one.

MTar786
08-11-2014, 04:12 AM
hakeem and dirk. i would add wade.. but wade only carried the team as a lone soldier in the finals. where as dirk was in monster mode owning the entire playoffs in 2011.. and hakeem like all season lol

numba1CHANGsta
08-11-2014, 05:10 AM
Really hard to determine, i think every point counts. A player could score 50 points a game and still lose because the rest of the team was a none factor. Every player counts. Yeah a player can win a game on his own many times but in the playoffs its def a team effort.

sammyvine
08-11-2014, 06:00 AM
nope team game

PurpleLynch
08-11-2014, 06:17 AM
Ummm.... What? I'm guessing you didn't know that Hal Greer, Billy Cunningham and Chet Walker all made the Hall of Fame. Hell, Greer averaged 28/6/5 in the playoffs that year and Walker averaged 22/8/2 with a WS/48 over .200. That's about as far away from "winning a title by yourself" as you can possibly get. That team was totally stacked.

You are right,I wrote the first thing that came up in my mind and I honestly forgot how good that team was(but no bench at all).Even Chamberlain himself called that 76ers as the best of all time(personal opinion obviously). Personally I think bball is a team sport,so no one in history ever won a title on his own.

Alright then,Mikan? :D

kdspurman
08-11-2014, 09:41 AM
Dream in 94
Duncan in 03

Obviously not on their own, but carried the biggest load IMO. Dirk had Chandler to really be his backup on the defensive end, while Duncan/Dream really carried the team on both ends of the court.

NYKalltheway
08-11-2014, 11:38 AM
the answer is no but some can claim they had the least help:

Hakeem Olajuwon 1994
Bill Walton 1977
Rick Barry 1975
Bob Pettit 1958

Chronz
08-11-2014, 12:10 PM
I will say, the years in which we can argue for that player "winning by himself" tend to be the years in which the NBA was weak or in a transition of some sort.

RCarlson85
08-11-2014, 12:38 PM
I think Dirk in '11 and Wade's first title in '06 are about as close to "by themselves" as it gets, at least in the last couple decades that I've been following the NBA. Dirk had other good players or role players but he was clearly the star and the best player. Same thing with Wade on '06. He had an aging Shaq but if anyone says Shaq was a big contributor and not on the decline they either didn't watch or they're trying to discredit Wade. In those finals, Shaq averaged 13 & 10. Antoine Walker averaged as many PPG as Shaq if that tells you anything. No one besides those two even averaged double digit points in the finals.

TheMightyHumph
08-11-2014, 01:12 PM
Man, that excuse gets played out so damn much ever since then. Jordan wasn't out of basketball shape, he actually was still a top10 player in those playoffs (some would put him top5), it's just that the Magic had a better team, period. I don't get why people choose to leave the '95 PO exit of the Bulls, I guess it makes for a better story.

For the record MJ was 2nd in both PPG and SPG for the 1995 playoffs, averaging 31.5 PPG, 6.5 RPG, 4.5 APG & 2.3 SPG. Out of shape? Give me a frickin' break.. He wasn't out of shape, not by a longshot, he just wasn't the undisputed god that we were used to seeing the seasons before that one.

I'll just disagree

SILVER SEAVER
08-11-2014, 01:14 PM
Basketball=team sport. A player can account for 100% of their teams points and still not win a championship all by themselves. You need every single guy on that roster in order to win regular season games let alone a championship. Jordan never did it by himself, Olajuwon never did and nobody ever will.

SILVER SEAVER
08-11-2014, 01:21 PM
Winning a championship also is not just a guy playing out of his mind in a Finals series. You have to get to the playoffs first and that takes a total team effort in order just to make it there. Four guys ain't standing around doing nothing and letting one guy do everything.

FlashBolt
08-11-2014, 02:13 PM
But you guys have to account for the level of difficulty in some years compared to others. This year Spurs would have destroyed Wade in 2006 and Dirk in 2011.

flea
08-11-2014, 04:26 PM
This year's Spurs would have probably taken care of a lot of past champions, that's not saying much. They were probably top 3-5 of champions from the last 20 years, IMO.

SPURSFAN1
08-11-2014, 04:38 PM
2003 Tim Duncan.

Speedy Claxton, Spurs teammate after Duncan’s triple-double in March 2003: “He’s the best player in the league. Once you start watching him a lot, you learn to appreciate his game even more.”

Anonymous Spurs staffer stating Duncan’s case in the 2003 MVP race: “Stephen Jackson’s our second-best player. And the Nets cut him.” (Chicago Tribune)

Isiah Thomas, New York coach: “The athleticism they’ve added around him definitely helps but the guy is just so good. I think he helps them more than they help him.”

Rose in 2003: “He’s carried us. Just like he always does.”

Duncan, after hearing his stat line in the sixth and final game of the 2003 Finals – 21 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists and eight blocks: “That’s cool.”

Steve Kerr, Spurs teammate after Game 6: “I told him he was incredible. Nothing else needed to be said.”

Danny Ferry, Spurs teammate on Duncan’s 2003 playoffs: “He was just unbelievable. This has to confirm him as one of the greatest players of all time.”

Robinson after Game 6: “We just always expect a great, great game from him and he just delivered time and time again. He carried us through almost every time. We just had to provide the help for him.”

Duncan after Game 6: “For a second there on the court, the last couple of seconds, I really thought, ‘You know what, I’m not going to play with (Robinson) again. I’m going to have to come out on this court without him. It’s going to be weird.’ I don’t know what to expect.”

Tim Duncan was going to win it that year, and no one was going to stop him.

sixers247
08-11-2014, 04:40 PM
Off Topic but does anyone else find it hilarious that amoser is trying to be sarcastic and funny about Lebron when 1. he really isn't and no one cares lol and 2. his sig actually makes his arguments even worse HAHAHA clowns will be clowning.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-11-2014, 04:41 PM
No way.

JordansBulls
08-11-2014, 09:32 PM
Well depends on how you view it. If on your own means you were the only allstar on the team who actually made the allstar team then yes several have done it. MJ in 1991 and 1998, Hakeem in 1994, Duncan in 2003, Dirk in 2011.

Shlumpledink
08-11-2014, 10:13 PM
Hakeem is the only one who comes close, definitely the goat. Otis thorpe came close to being a good player, but by far the worst second option of any champion

Hawkeye15
08-11-2014, 10:25 PM
I will say, the years in which we can argue for that player "winning by himself" tend to be the years in which the NBA was weak or in a transition of some sort.

I was thinking that exact same thing

mightybosstone
08-11-2014, 11:07 PM
the answer is no but some can claim they had the least help:

Hakeem Olajuwon 1994
Bill Walton 1977
Rick Barry 1975
Bob Pettit 1958

Cliff Hagan had a damn good season and postseason in 1958 and is a Hall of Famer. In fact, Hagan's numbers in the postseason were far better than Pettit's and you could make a case that his regular season numbers were better as well.

You make a better case for Walton, but Mo Lucas was a pretty good basketball player too. He made the All-Star team in 77 and followed that up by making 2nd team All-NBA in 78. And he put up 21/10/4/2/1 in the 77 playoffs on 52% shooting. That's an excellent No. 2 option by any NBA standards.

Barry and Olajuwon are two solid picks, though. Neither guy played with an All-Star in those seasons and neither guy had a single player capable of being considered a legitimate No. 2 by today's NBA standards.

mightybosstone
08-11-2014, 11:14 PM
Well depends on how you view it. If on your own means you were the only allstar on the team who actually made the allstar team then yes several have done it. MJ in 1991 and 1998, Hakeem in 1994, Duncan in 2003, Dirk in 2011.

You have an extremely odd interpretation of "on his own." I hardly consider winning a title with a top 25 all-time player in his prime to be Jordan winning a title without any help. Pippen averaged 19/6/5/2/1 with a 20.4 PER and a .193 WS/48 in 98 and an 18/7/6/2/1 with a 20.6 PER and a .179 WS/48 in 91. Those are both damn fine seasons for an NBA No. 2.

To put that into perspective, Dwyane Wade this season averaged 19/5/5/2 with a 22.0 PER and a .149 WS/48. And Pippen's numbers in the playoffs those two years were far better than what Wade provided this season.

TheMightyHumph
08-11-2014, 11:52 PM
Hakeem is the only one who comes close, definitely the goat. Otis thorpe came close to being a good player, but by far the worst second option of any champion

You remember who the '94 team played in the Finals, right. It was WrestleMania that playoffs. No way they win without Thorpe in that particular Finals. And both Cassell and Maxwell came up big that series.

And Starks came up very, very small.

JordansBulls
08-11-2014, 11:57 PM
You have an extremely odd interpretation of "on his own." I hardly consider winning a title with a top 25 all-time player in his prime to be Jordan winning a title without any help. Pippen averaged 19/6/5/2/1 with a 20.4 PER and a .193 WS/48 in 98 and an 18/7/6/2/1 with a 20.6 PER and a .179 WS/48 in 91. Those are both damn fine seasons for an NBA No. 2.

To put that into perspective, Dwyane Wade this season averaged 19/5/5/2 with a 22.0 PER and a .149 WS/48. And Pippen's numbers in the playoffs those two years were far better than what Wade provided this season.
No, Pippen was no where near top 25 all time when Chicago won. He wouldn't had even sniffed it either. He may have been top 500 all time by then.

Shlumpledink
08-12-2014, 12:25 AM
You remember who the '94 team played in the Finals, right. It was WrestleMania that playoffs. No way they win without Thorpe in that particular Finals. And both Cassell and Maxwell came up big that series.

And Starks came up very, very small.

For sure, it was a tough series and Hakeem couldn't do it alone, but Hakeem wasn't on a great team compared to other winners. The next season his team was better, Horry was a better player and so was cassell.

tmacsc2
08-12-2014, 12:29 AM
Personally, as close as it comes is Dennis Johnson of the 79 sonics championship. Only HoF on that team.

Shlumpledink
08-12-2014, 12:34 AM
You have an extremely odd interpretation of "on his own." I hardly consider winning a title with a top 25 all-time player in his prime to be Jordan winning a title without any help. Pippen averaged 19/6/5/2/1 with a 20.4 PER and a .193 WS/48 in 98 and an 18/7/6/2/1 with a 20.6 PER and a .179 WS/48 in 91. Those are both damn fine seasons for an NBA No. 2.

To put that into perspective, Dwyane Wade this season averaged 19/5/5/2 with a 22.0 PER and a .149 WS/48. And Pippen's numbers in the playoffs those two years were far better than what Wade provided this season.

Not to mention they had Horace Grant, who was about as good as Hakeem's second best player Otis Thorpe. He was playing great d down the stretch, and Paxson was on fire.

5ass
08-12-2014, 12:38 AM
No, Pippen was no where near top 25 all time when Chicago won. He wouldn't had even sniffed it either. He may have been top 500 all time by then.
Pippen was more help to Jordan than wade was to LeBron.

TheMightyHumph
08-12-2014, 12:55 AM
Personally, as close as it comes is Dennis Johnson of the 79 sonics championship. Only HoF on that team.

Guess you don't remember Gus Williams, Jack Sikma, John Johnson, Freddie Brown, Paul Silas and Lonnie Shelton.

Chronz
08-12-2014, 12:57 AM
Well depends on how you view it. If on your own means you were the only allstar on the team who actually made the allstar team then yes several have done it. MJ in 1991 and 1998, Hakeem in 1994, Duncan in 2003, Dirk in 2011.
What about having an All-Star based on actually producing like an All-Star?

mightybosstone
08-12-2014, 01:10 AM
No, Pippen was no where near top 25 all time when Chicago won. He wouldn't had even sniffed it either. He may have been top 500 all time by then.

What? So just because a top 25 all-time player wasn't a top 25 all-time player at the beginning of his prime, that somehow diminishes his production and accomplishments at that point in his career? How does that make any sense whatsoever? Based on that logic, Kareem essentially won a title by himself in 1980, because Magic was a rookie and therefore isn't considered a legitimate No. 2.

I don't know how you come up with your logic for some your arguments, JB. But you'll have to explain it to me someday.

gatkins11
08-12-2014, 01:14 AM
Or Wade

Playing 5 on 8 doesn't count.

tredigs
08-12-2014, 01:32 AM
The answer is Rick Barry. The guy had the will of an absolute legend and completely dumped on a fantastic 60 win Bullets squad in the Finals. I think his he averaged 30/5/5 on high %'s with great D with his next best scorer putting up like 10 a night on 30% shooting. Without Barry they'd have been swept with ease, yet they did the Finals sweeping. Hakeem is the runner up in '94 and a solid choice as well (considering the fact that this clearly IS a team sport and stats alone don't tell the story; everyone needs the right pieces).

JordansBulls
08-12-2014, 09:15 AM
Pippen was more help to Jordan than wade was to LeBron.

No he wasn't not even close either. Wade actually led a team to the title as the man and also even outplayed Lebron in series while Lebron was the reason for the Heat losing in the playoffs. In fact both Wade and Bosh outplayed Lebron.

sixers247
08-12-2014, 09:21 AM
No he wasn't not even close either. Wade actually led a team to the title as the man and also even outplayed Lebron in series while Lebron was the reason for the Heat losing in the playoffs. In fact both Wade and Bosh outplayed Lebron.

Haha your hate for Lebron just shows how good he is. You probably blow a MJ blow up doll every morning and stare at a Lebron poster to get revenge while you work out. Relax the hating chief. Don't hate, congratulate.

JordansBulls
08-12-2014, 09:23 AM
Haha your hate for Lebron just shows how good he is. You probably blow a MJ blow up doll every morning and stare at a Lebron poster to get revenge while you work out. Relax the hating chief. Don't hate, congratulate.

This was the finals

Wade
26.5 PPG / 7.0 RPG / 5.2 APG / 1.5 SPG / 1.5 BPG / 2.5 TPG / 54.6% FG / 30.4% 3 PT FG / 69.4% FT


Bosh
18.5 PPG / 7.3 RPG / 1.0 APG / 0.33 SPG / 0.50 BPG / 2.17 TPG / 41.3% FG / 0.00% 3 PT FG / 77.8% FT


Lebron
17.8 PPG / 7.2 RPG / 6.8 APG / 1.67 SPG / 0.50 BPG / 4.0 TPG / 47.8% FG / 32.1% 3 PT FG / 60.0% FT


This was the semifinals vs Boston

Wade

30.2 PPG / 6.8 RPG / 4.8 APG / 2.00 SPG / 0.60 BPG / 3.05 TPG / 52.6% FG / 28.6% 3 PT FG / 77.6% FT



Lebron

28.0 PPG / 8.2 RPG / 3.6 APG / 1.80 SPG / 1.80 BPG / 3.40 TPG / 47.2% FG / 43.5% 3 PT FG / 66.7% FT

sixers247
08-12-2014, 09:25 AM
THey lost that series and yes Lebron deserves blame but what about the next three years when Lebron clearly outplayed Wade and won twice?

JordansBulls
08-12-2014, 09:27 AM
THey lost that series and yes Lebron deserves blame but what about the next three years when Lebron clearly outplayed Wade and won twice?

But that's not less help when you lose because of how you played and your teammate/s outplayed you.

sixers247
08-12-2014, 09:29 AM
This is talking about winning though. When Lebron won the titles, Wade was not playing his best. Not really sure why you are arguing a season they didn't even win in.