PDA

View Full Version : Woj: Love to Cavs for Wiggins, Bennett, 1st



Pages : [1] 2 3

InRoseWeTrust
08-07-2014, 09:29 AM
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--cavaliers-have-agreement-to-acquire-kevin-love--who-commits-to-staying-in-cleveland-054657392.html

Appears to be official.

"Cleveland is making the deal with Minnesota with a firm agreement Love will opt out of his contract in 2015 and re-sign with the Cavaliers on a five-year, $120 million-plus contract extension, league sources told Yahoo Sports."

NYKnickFanatic
08-07-2014, 09:32 AM
LT time.

:dance:

Can't wait for the season to start!

ATX
08-07-2014, 09:32 AM
Shocker!! Though I figured the Wolves would have been able to offload some bad contracts. Irving/James/Love, the new Big 3.

NYKnickFanatic
08-07-2014, 09:34 AM
Shocker!! Though I figured the Wolves would have been able to offload some bad contracts. Irving/James/Love, the new Big 3.

Yeah I thought someone else would be going from the Wolves. Must be more players involved.

GiantsSwaGG
08-07-2014, 09:35 AM
Championship

DR_1
08-07-2014, 09:37 AM
So much for that letter huh LeBron

J4KOP99
08-07-2014, 09:38 AM
I'm surprised they didn't wait a year.

-now the cavs are the obvious favorite in the east.

Still wouldn't consider them the championship favorites though. A healthy thunder and spurs, match up extremely well with them.

J4KOP99
08-07-2014, 09:39 AM
Dan Gilbert does not deserve this

KnicksYanks
08-07-2014, 09:41 AM
There also probably gonna sign Marion

koreancabbage
08-07-2014, 09:42 AM
So much for that letter huh LeBron

this guy is bitter lol

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 09:42 AM
Wow Cleveland won this trade. Last we heard, Minny was getting more. BTW how is Cleveland going to be able to afford to re-sign Lebron at max too? A big reason Miami broke up was the finances. If Cleveland has 3 max guys they are going to go into death tax territory like the Nets every year.

Robby Cano
08-07-2014, 09:43 AM
This team has the potential to be so stacked it isn't even fair...

Kyrie Irving/Matthew Dellavedova
Dion Waiters/Ray Allen (if he comes)
LeBron James/Mike Miller/Shawn Marion (if he comes)
Kevin Love/Tristan Thompson/James Jones
Anderson Varejao/Brendan Haywood

Please. That is finals

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 09:46 AM
So much for that letter huh LeBron

What is so bad about his letter? What's so better about making the Cavs better now and for the next 6 years?

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 09:49 AM
Wow Cleveland won this trade. Last we heard, Minny was getting more. BTW how is Cleveland going to be able to afford to re-sign Lebron at max too? A big reason Miami broke up was the finances. If Cleveland has 3 max guys they are going to go into death tax territory like the Nets every year.

The cap soft cap is projected to be at 66 mill and the hard cap at 81 mill in 2016. They'll be just fine. Plus Irving's max is not 20 million/year.

JustinTime
08-07-2014, 09:50 AM
Great news for Wiggins and Bennett. I really hope T-wolves keep Bennett because him and Wiggins are friends and already have some chemistry.

Pierzynski4Prez
08-07-2014, 09:50 AM
What is so bad about his letter? What's so better about making the Cavs better now and for the next 6 years?

Do you think he would've come back if the roster was the same as when he left?

h2r09
08-07-2014, 09:51 AM
Lol people do realize the only difference between the way Lebron left the cavs and the way he left the heat is that the majority of people just like the message of "going home" better?

It's fairly clear now he strung the heat along the entire free agency period when he clearly had no desire to return. Its not coincidence the only people not in that letter were wiggins and Bennett. He also had a meeting with Riley where he didn't tell him he met with Gilbert like 3 days before and then started writing the letter like a few hours after. He wasted the heats time and all the growing up he did with the heat and after all the heat did for him it's pretty ridiculous the way he played them.

JustinTime
08-07-2014, 09:52 AM
This team has the potential to be so stacked it isn't even fair...

Kyrie Irving/Matthew Dellavedova
Dion Waiters/Ray Allen (if he comes)
LeBron James/Mike Miller/Shawn Marion (if he comes)
Kevin Love/Tristan Thompson/James Jones
Anderson Varejao/Brendan Haywood

Please. That is finals

Team is awful defensively Love ,Thompson, Waiters and Irving are brutal defenders.

benny01
08-07-2014, 09:53 AM
This team has the potential to be so stacked it isn't even fair...

Kyrie Irving/Matthew Dellavedova
Dion Waiters/Ray Allen (if he comes)
LeBron James/Mike Miller/Shawn Marion (if he comes)
Kevin Love/Tristan Thompson/James Jones
Anderson Varejao/Brendan Haywood

Please. That is finals

I actually think the heat team he joined looked better on paper all things considered. There really isn't that big of a difference except that the role players are four years older and there is no Battier.

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 09:53 AM
Do you think he would've come back if the roster was the same as when he left?

Possibly. We'll never know that, will we, so I prefer to believe in the good. Him leaving is the reason the roster got better over the last 4 years.

GeekInThePink
08-07-2014, 09:53 AM
Great trade both ways.

I can't wait too see LeBron/Love/Irving combo, all three are extremely versatile and should be terrific in the Princeton style offense.

Minnesota looks like they could be real nice in a couple years with a core of Wiggins/Rubio/LaVine/Dieng. Love was certainly moving on after this year and they ended up getting two former #1 picks and a 1st rounder. I think Bennett and Wiggins are going to thrive in Minnesota, anyone think Bennett will start for Minny this year?

mjt20mik
08-07-2014, 09:54 AM
Lol people do realize the only difference between the way Lebron left the cavs and the way he left the heat is that the majority of people just like the message of "going home" better?

It's fairly clear now he strung the heat along the entire free agency period when he clearly had no desire to return. Its not coincidence the only people not in that letter were wiggins and Bennett. He also had a meeting with Riley where he didn't tell him he met with Gilbert like 3 days before and then started writing the letter like a few hours after. He wasted the heats time and all the growing up he did with the heat and after all the heat did for him it's pretty ridiculous the way he played them.

He barely did anything. He wasn't even here. I don't understand how this is the same thing he did to the Cavs. The Cavs were publically humiliated on TV, while there was no formal message given to their front office about his leaving.

With Miami, he thanked everyone and met with Riley and Wade before. In the end, he has the choice to do whatever he wanted, and it shouldn't make a difference. I honestly think what he did was classy.

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 09:54 AM
I actually think the heat team he joined looked better on paper all things considered. There really isn't that big of a difference except that the role players are four years older and there is no Battier.

The 2010 Heat, I'd agree because Wade in 2010 >> Kyrie, but right now, no freaking way.

Robby Cano
08-07-2014, 09:54 AM
I actually think the heat team he joined looked better on paper all things considered. There really isn't that big of a difference except that the role players are four years older and there is no Battier.

Irving > Chalmers
Waiters < Wade
LeBron = LeBron
Love > Bosh
Varejao > Oden/Anderson


??????

mike_noodles
08-07-2014, 09:55 AM
Cleveland fans are awfully lucky.

Pierzynski4Prez
08-07-2014, 09:56 AM
Possibly. We'll never know that, will we, so I prefer to believe in the good. Him leaving is the reason the roster got better over the last 4 years.

Just noticed where you are located. My brother lives in Maple Grove by 101 and 47.

Anyways, tell that to the folks of Cleveland for the last 4 years while they were at the bottom of the league and got to watch LBJ win 2 titles in Miami. Really nice service he did them there.

h2r09
08-07-2014, 09:56 AM
And that team they are puttin together is not a championship team yet. People know how good the heat were offensively but their backbone was their incredible defense and this team has none. Obviously offensively they will be incredible but as is right now that team is not winning the title

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 09:56 AM
Lol people do realize the only difference between the way Lebron left the cavs and the way he left the heat is that the majority of people just like the message of "going home" better?

It's fairly clear now he strung the heat along the entire free agency period when he clearly had no desire to return. Its not coincidence the only people not in that letter were wiggins and Bennett. He also had a meeting with Riley where he didn't tell him he met with Gilbert like 3 days before and then started writing the letter like a few hours after. He wasted the heats time and all the growing up he did with the heat and after all the heat did for him it's pretty ridiculous the way he played them.
Well, I for one, didn't think it was a big deal the fist time he left, and I don't get why the Heat fans are complaining about him leaving now - he gave you 4 finals and 2 championships in 4 years - not singlehandedly, but he was clearly "the guy."

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 09:57 AM
Yea as time goes on this feels more calculated and staged. Kudos to his PR team. Although as I said in my other thread this merely makes Cleveland the clear favs in the east. Until we see this team mesh, Kyrie step up, Varejao healthy and the team play D... This team will get burned up.

In other words the talent to win it all is there for sure, but more question marks than say the Spurs.

DR_1
08-07-2014, 09:57 AM
this guy is bitter lol

About what? I am just tired of super teams. They ruin the league.

Arch Stanton
08-07-2014, 09:57 AM
Wow Cleveland won this trade. Last we heard, Minny was getting more. BTW how is Cleveland going to be able to afford to re-sign Lebron at max too? A big reason Miami broke up was the finances. If Cleveland has 3 max guys they are going to go into death tax territory like the Nets every year.

They can resign their own players and go over the cap. Gilbert has always shown that he is willing to spend money so I don't see this as an issue moving forward. They didn't sacrifice a ton of picks either. They still have 2 first round picks next year (thank you Miami, I'll do it formally in a billboard), zero firsts in '16, and business as usually going forward. They also have Haywood's contract which could be a valuable trade piece next offseason.

KnicksorBust
08-07-2014, 09:58 AM
Great news for Wiggins and Bennett. I really hope T-wolves keep Bennett because him and Wiggins are friends and already have some chemistry.

Underrated aspect of this trade. Bennett and Wiggins have a real chance to break out in Minny. Love the deal for both teams! Perfect trade. Cavs now the most likely team in either conference to make the Finals.

benny01
08-07-2014, 09:59 AM
The 2010 Heat, I'd agree because Wade in 2010 >> Kyrie, but right now, no freaking way.
yeah the 2010 team, i'm not trying to piss in anyone's cereal, and this team has more potential due to their youth. Wade, Bosh, and Lebron were top 10 players, and the role players miller, battier, etc... were better role players from go.

JustinTime
08-07-2014, 09:59 AM
Irving > Chalmers
Waiters < Wade
LeBron = LeBron
Love > Bosh
Varejao > Oden/Anderson


??????

That's debatable I would have taken Bosh at 25 over Love. I don't know what to expect from him this season but without Lebron I would not be surprised if he plays like he did in Toronto again.

JustinTime
08-07-2014, 10:02 AM
Underrated aspect of this trade. Bennett and Wiggins have a real chance to break out in Minny. Love the deal for both teams! Perfect trade. Cavs now the most likely team in either conference to make the Finals.

I agree completely and what better place than Minnesota for Bennett to turn around his career. No body outside of Minnesota pays attention to the T-wolves which is perfect for Bennett.

Robby Cano
08-07-2014, 10:04 AM
That's debatable I would have taken Bosh at 25 over Love. I don't know what to expect from him this season but without Lebron I would not be surprised if he plays like he did in Toronto again.

Is this a joke?

Bosh over Love?

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 10:05 AM
Just noticed where you are located. My brother lives in Maple Grove by 101 and 47.

Anyways, tell that to the folks of Cleveland for the last 4 years while they were at the bottom of the league and got to watch LBJ win 2 titles in Miami. Really nice service he did them there.

Haha, I live by 101 and 47 as well. Well, I clearly can't put myself in their shoes, but as an outside fan, I think that it actually gave Cleveland a better chance to win now. I bet you anything it was a very hard decision to make, and yes, the way it was presented was not in the best taste, but you know he didn't design it that way himself either - probably his agent and advertisement group. In any case, the same way I am not all that upset with Love - regardless of us getting anything for him or not. While Love did run his mouth too much to the national media for my liking - he did have a point - you can't win when you are constantly being surrounded with Johnny Flynns, Wes Johnsons, DWills and a PG who can't hit the broad side of a barn to take some pressure off you. KG stayed the course with crap supporting casts - how did that work out? Wasted prime years and damn near no result. If Lebron that took crap Cavs rosters to 60+ wins couldn't win a chip in Cleveland at the time, I don't see how it would have changed. Cleveland fans would be bitter no matter how he left. Anyways, I think it was the right move but the wrong approach, I think he realizes that so I think it's time to forgive him and move on. Lebron could have easily gone to Houston and played on an arguably better team.

JustinTime
08-07-2014, 10:06 AM
Is this a joke?

Bosh over Love?

25 year old Bosh yes. I don't care how unlikeable the guy is he's a very good two-way player.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 10:06 AM
At the end of the day, given the circumstances it's a good trade for both teams no doubt. I do think it hurts Lebron's legacy a bit to keep forming stacked teams, while having his hand in all of it. This isn't like the Bulls where Pippen blew up years after the Bulls acquired him. This is Lebron continuously joining forces with in prime superstars and maneuvering things behind the scenes.

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 10:08 AM
About what? I am just tired of super teams. They ruin the league.

I bet you would have been fine if Love went to the Bulls for a package.

mjt20mik
08-07-2014, 10:10 AM
That's debatable I would have taken Bosh at 25 over Love. I don't know what to expect from him this season but without Lebron I would not be surprised if he plays like he did in Toronto again.

I agree. Bosh is a way better defender than Love. However, I don't like the way he was utilized in Miami's offense.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 10:10 AM
I bet you would have been fine if Love went to the Bulls for a package.

Difference is the Bulls current two superstars were drafted. They weren't formed through staged tampering backdoor trade deals for two superstars. That's why I can talk all the sh** I want about stars teaming up when I'm a Clippers fan. DJ/Griffin were drafted and the outgoing package to get CP3 was the best at the time for a rebuilding team and allowed the Pelicans to tank for Davis.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 10:11 AM
Is this a joke?

Bosh over Love?

Do you value defense? Bosh in his last season in Toronto put up 24/11/3 or something like that if I recall. Not far off Love offensively, while being a much better defender (in Miami when he changed his game up). I wouldn't say it's a "joke". More like debatable.

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 10:11 AM
That's debatable I would have taken Bosh at 25 over Love. I don't know what to expect from him this season but without Lebron I would not be surprised if he plays like he did in Toronto again.

You make it sound like Bosh was KG or something. Bosh was a great player in Toronto, but Love is more efficient at 25 than Bosh was, and Bosh was never a stellar defender either - above average, but not elite by any means. But what's the point, every Canadian( or a player that played in Canada) is better than every American player.

mjt20mik
08-07-2014, 10:13 AM
Difference is the Bulls current two superstars were drafted. They weren't formed through staged tampering backdoor trade deals for two superstars. That's why I can talk all the sh** I want about stars teaming up when I'm a Clippers fan. DJ/Griffin were drafted and the outgoing package to get CP3 was the best at the time for a rebuilding team and allowed the Pelicans to tank for Davis.

Firstly, no disrespect to Noah, but he isn't a superstar.

Cleveland drafted Lebron and Kyrie and traded for Love. Seems a lot like LAC drafting Blake and DJ and trading for Paul.

DR_1
08-07-2014, 10:13 AM
I bet you would have been fine if Love went to the Bulls for a package.

Ya cuz we wouldnt have been a super team.

bootsy
08-07-2014, 10:13 AM
Is this a joke?

Bosh over Love?
Shouldn't be because I would too. At least got his team the playoffs and put up numbers just as good as Love.

ATX
08-07-2014, 10:15 AM
I can't wait for Bosh to play in an expanded role this season and remind some why he is a 9x All Star.

mjt20mik
08-07-2014, 10:15 AM
Ya cuz we wouldnt have been a super team.

Rose, Noah, Love.. seems like a super team to me.

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 10:15 AM
Do you value defense? Bosh in his last season in Toronto put up 24/11/3 or something like that if I recall. Not far off Love offensively, while being a much better defender (in Miami when he changed his game up). I wouldn't say it's a "joke". More like debatable.

Stats say otherwise about the defense by Bosh last Toronto year, at least the stats I like to use. What this tells me is that they are basically on par.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=loveke01&y1=2014&p2=boshch01&y2=2010

GiantsSwaGG
08-07-2014, 10:16 AM
Why didn't they throw in Kevin Martin?

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 10:17 AM
Stats say otherwise about the defense by bosh last year, at least the stats I like to use.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=loveke01&y1=2014&p2=boshch01&y2=2010

Bro, don't go there. You know the truth, no need to let your bias cloud you or skew stats. Bosh has become a very good and versatile defender in Miami and sure as hell better than Love.

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 10:17 AM
Ya cuz we wouldnt have been a super team.

So Rose, Love, Pau and Noah are not a super team?

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 10:18 AM
Firstly, no disrespect to Noah, but he isn't a superstar.

Cleveland drafted Lebron and Kyrie and traded for Love. Seems a lot like LAC drafting Blake and DJ and trading for Paul.

Not the same situation at all. Lebron left and only came back due to a promise of a deal for Love, in which tampering was involved. With or without CP3... Blake and DJ would of been there for the long haul. I have ZERO doubt that had Cleveland not promised Love, Lebron doesn't "come home".

mgjohnson7851
08-07-2014, 10:20 AM
Difference is the Bulls current two superstars were drafted. They weren't formed through staged tampering backdoor trade deals for two superstars. That's why I can talk all the sh** I want about stars teaming up when I'm a Clippers fan. DJ/Griffin were drafted and the outgoing package to get CP3 was the best at the time for a rebuilding team and allowed the Pelicans to tank for Davis.
Lol you can't argue super teams being bad, and than try to justify why your team has been trying to form one for years now.

Also, the only reason the cp3 trade was the best deal is because the Lakers got hosed.

Let's not act like the clippers are the anti super team just because they've failed in all of their attempts to become a super team

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 10:20 AM
Difference is the Bulls current two superstars were drafted. They weren't formed through staged tampering backdoor trade deals for two superstars. That's why I can talk all the sh** I want about stars teaming up when I'm a Clippers fan. DJ/Griffin were drafted and the outgoing package to get CP3 was the best at the time for a rebuilding team and allowed the Pelicans to tank for Davis.

Isn't this identical? The package the Cleveland are giving up is pretty substantial, if you ask me. And by the way, the Clippers had similar draft "luck" to what the Cavs have had in recent years, so it's absolutely and identical situation.

mjt20mik
08-07-2014, 10:20 AM
Not the same situation at all. Lebron left and only came back due to a promise of a deal for Love, in which tampering was involved.

If you can provide me substantial evidence for your theory, I'll believe it. Otherwise what you are saying is no more accurate than me saying I created Microsoft and Bill Gates stole it from me.

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 10:22 AM
Shouldn't be because I would too. At least got his team the playoffs and put up numbers just as good as Love.

He got his team to the playoffs twice, once with 47 wins and once with 41 - I mean "41" wins. I am not taking anything away from Bosh, him and Love are easily comparable at 25.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 10:22 AM
Lol you can't argue super teams being bad, and than try to justify why your team has been trying to form one for years now.

Also, the only reason the cp3 trade was the best deal is because the Lakers got hosed.

Let's not act like the clippers are the anti super team just because they've failed in all of their attempts to become a super team

How did the Clippers try to become a super team and fail? DJ wasn't even a star when we acquired CP3, nor projected to be one by 90 percent of NBA fans/analysts. The Clippers vision at the time was two superstars, not 3. Also the Lakers didn't get hosed at all. The team was owned by the league who didn't want to detonate it's value by being a treadmill 8 seed at best. It wanted to be a team that could take/have a ton of cap space etc. It was BY FAR the better deal and the league enforced it's right as agreed upon by all 29 owners.

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 10:24 AM
Bro, don't go there. You know the truth, no need to let your bias cloud you or skew stats. Bosh has become a very good and versatile defender in Miami and sure as hell better than Love.

We were talking about Love/Bosh at 25 years old.

GeekInThePink
08-07-2014, 10:24 AM
Not the same situation at all. Lebron left and only came back due to a promise of a deal for Love, in which tampering was involved. With or without CP3... Blake and DJ would of been there for the long haul. I have ZERO doubt that had Cleveland not promised Love, Lebron doesn't "come home".

Huh? I've seen you post plenty of intelligent things on this forum, this isn't one of them and is pure speculation at best. It sounds like your upset Cleveland is going to be better then the Clippers next season.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 10:25 AM
Isn't this identical? The package the Cleveland are giving up is pretty substantial, if you ask me. And by the way, the Clippers had similar draft "luck" to what the Cavs have had in recent years, so it's absolutely and identical situation.

I said the trade was fair to begin with. Just don't tell me tampering wasn't involved because from what we've seen reported, this has been a done deal for a long while now. I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason the trigger wasn't pulled once Lebron was signed, was to prevent another PR sh** storm for Lebron.

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 10:25 AM
How did the Clippers try to become a super team and fail? DJ wasn't even a star when we acquired CP3, nor projected to be one by 90 percent of NBA fans/analysts. The Clippers vision at the time was two superstars, not 3. Also the Lakers didn't get hosed at all. The team was owned by the league who didn't want to detonate it's value by being a treadmill 8 seed at best. It wanted to be a team that could take/have a ton of cap space etc. It was BY FAR the better deal and the league enforced it's right as agreed upon by all 29 owners.

DJ is still not a star. A good starter, but not a star.

ewing
08-07-2014, 10:26 AM
Huh? I've seen you post plenty of intelligent things on this forum, this isn't one of them and is pure speculation at best. It sounds like your upset Cleveland is going to be better then the Clippers next season.


i highly doubt Bron did not collude with the Cavs this time or the Heat last time. Its the new free agency.

mjt20mik
08-07-2014, 10:28 AM
i highly doubt Bron did not collude with the Cavs this time or the Heat last time. Its the new free agency.

Again no proof to collusion either time. Could they have all spoken to each other before and after they were free agents, sure. Will we ever find out, nope.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 10:28 AM
Huh? I've seen you post plenty of intelligent things on this forum, this isn't one of them and is pure speculation at best. It sounds like your upset Cleveland is going to be better then the Clippers next season.

It is speculation but it's not as baseless, random as it seems. On July 17th it was reported that Lebron personally was talking to Love, trying to lure him. That was literally just 5 days after he signed himself. You really think he waited to have that conversation? Forgive me for having a haunch. Also... I'm not upset at all. If the Clippers ever want to win a ring, they need to beat the best teams. If they can beat the Spurs, who are better than the Cavs, I'm not worried about the Cavs.

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 10:29 AM
I said the trade was fair to begin with. Just don't tell me tampering wasn't involved because from what we've seen reported, this has been a done deal for a long while now. I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason the trigger wasn't pulled once Lebron was signed, was to prevent another PR sh** storm for Lebron.

The deal wasn't pulled because Wiggins needed to be signed to make the money work better, it's as simple as that. And how is it tempering even if Cleveland told Lebron they will acquire Kevin Love if he signs? The talk about Love being traded to the Cavs started way before Lebron ever thought of going to Cleveland, before the draft. The only tempering was when Lebron reached out to Love(who is under contract in MN) to sway him to request a trade - yes that's tempering if it indeed happened - for now it's a rumor. The deal itself is not.

Iron24th
08-07-2014, 10:29 AM
Poor minny fans, their GM can't even unload a bad contract in that trade

I hope wiggins becomes a star

mgjohnson7851
08-07-2014, 10:30 AM
How did the Clippers try to become a super team and fail? DJ wasn't even a star when we acquired CP3, nor projected to be one by 90 percent of NBA fans/analysts. The Clippers vision at the time was two superstars, not 3. Also the Lakers didn't get hosed at all. The team was owned by the league who didn't want to detonate it's value by being a treadmill 8 seed at best. It wanted to be a team that could take/have a ton of cap space etc. It was BY FAR the better deal and the league enforced it's right as agreed upon by all 29 owners.
They did just fail to land mello right? And it doesn't matter if the league wanted to out a star on the clippers team, it still hurt the Lakers.... I liked it though cause I can't stand the Lakers, and I am entertained by the clippers.

Seriously though....every year that the Lakers are at the bottom of the standings, the better the world is.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 10:30 AM
DJ is still not a star. A good starter, but not a star.

Even more proof of why the Clippers didn't form a super team if true. I'm good with this opinion in this conversation. I only threw it out there because some would say DJ was a good 3rd piece. Although statistically DJ isn't far off as you'd think. He had a WS/48 in the SUPERSTAR category surprisingly.

IndyRealist
08-07-2014, 10:30 AM
Wow Cleveland won this trade. Last we heard, Minny was getting more. BTW how is Cleveland going to be able to afford to re-sign Lebron at max too? A big reason Miami broke up was the finances. If Cleveland has 3 max guys they are going to go into death tax territory like the Nets every year.

When Lebron is up for a new deal in 2016, the salary cap and luxury tax are going to jump, while Love's salary will not.

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 10:31 AM
It is speculation but it's not as baseless, random as it seems. On July 17th it was reported that Lebron personally was talking to Love, trying to lure him. That was literally just 5 days after he signed himself. You really think he waited to have that conversation? Forgive me for having a haunch. Also... I'm not upset at all. If the Clippers ever want to win a ring, they need to beat the best teams. If they can beat the Spurs, who are better than the Cavs, I'm not worried about the Cavs.
Talking to Love is tempering after Lebron signed, and actually wouldn't have been before he signed, however you need proof to make such claims and it was only a rumor/speculation.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 10:32 AM
They did just fail to land mello right? And it doesn't matter if the league wanted to out a star on the clippers team, it still hurt the Lakers.... I liked it though cause I can't stand the Lakers, and I am entertained by the clippers.

Seriously though....every year that the Lakers are at the bottom of the standings, the better the world is.

I worded it poorly. The Lakers DID get hosed bad. But it doesn't mean it was without good reason. The league made a smart choice, which turned into Anthony Davis for new owner of the Pelicans.

nickdymez
08-07-2014, 10:33 AM
NBA has turned into a joke/circus.

GeekInThePink
08-07-2014, 10:33 AM
It is speculation but it's not as baseless, random as it seems. On July 17th it was reported that Lebron personally was talking to Love, trying to lure him. That was literally just 5 days after he signed himself. You really think he waited to have that conversation? Forgive me for having a haunch. Also... I'm not upset at all. If the Clippers ever want to win a ring, they need to beat the best teams. If they can beat the Spurs, who are better than the Cavs, I'm not worried about the Cavs.

Yes it is baseless, you have literally zero proof anything took place. Find me that article that says they were talking and that has proof it happened and i'll concede. If it a "my sources..." article, don't even bother.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 10:34 AM
Talking to Love is tempering after Lebron signed, and actually wouldn't have been before he signed, however you need proof to make such claims and it was only a rumor/speculation.

The tampering is a fact. He tried to lure another player on another team, while under contract. The idea by me that he probably talked to Love before going to Cleveland is obviously speculation. But given the 4-5 day gap between reports of Lebron signing+talking to Love... to say I'm making a huge leap here seems excessive. You really see no possibility for this?

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 10:34 AM
Even more proof of why the Clippers didn't form a super team if true. I'm good with this opinion in this conversation. I only threw it out there because some would say DJ was a good 3rd piece. Although statistically DJ isn't far off as you'd think. He had a WS/48 in the SUPERSTAR category surprisingly.

Did I say he is far off, OK, I'll say a very good starter. In any case, the trade for CP3 = the trade for Love in near all aspects. That's all I am saying.

CELTICS4LYFE
08-07-2014, 10:35 AM
Irving-Love-Lebron > Wade-Bosh-Lebron

JustinTime
08-07-2014, 10:35 AM
It's being reported that there's no third team for Bennett either so he'll be staying in Minnesota and with that they are my favorite team now.

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 10:36 AM
The tampering is a fact. He tried to lure another player on another team, while under contract. The idea by me that he probably talked to Love before going to Cleveland is obviously speculation. But given the 4-5 day gap between reports of Lebron signing+talking to Love... to say I'm making a huge leap here seems excessive. You really see no possibility for this?

It is not a fact until Lebron comes out and says he has talked to Love, and he never will. Just because, Woj reported it, doesn't make it true, just like this trade could still fall apart by the 24th.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 10:36 AM
Yes it is baseless, you have literally zero proof anything took place. Find me that article that says they were talking and that has proof it happened and i'll concede. If it a "my sources..." article, don't even bother.

State a source that it didn't happen for sure. Most of what is posted on a forum is opinion/speculation and that's implied naturally. I even admitted it was a haunch and speculation. Never presented it as fact. I think I said something like "I have zero doubt", which is still my own opinion clearly.

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 10:37 AM
It's being reported that there's no third team for Bennett either so he'll be staying in Minnesota and with that they are my favorite team now.

No thanks. I really hope we don't have to see you in our forum. You are as biased about Canadian affiliated players as Hellcrooner is about Spanish players.

IndyRealist
08-07-2014, 10:37 AM
I said the trade was fair to begin with. Just don't tell me tampering wasn't involved because from what we've seen reported, this has been a done deal for a long while now. I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason the trigger wasn't pulled once Lebron was signed, was to prevent another PR sh** storm for Lebron.

It's not tampering if they have permission to talk to him? I assume the Wolves management was in on any trade discussions.

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 10:38 AM
State a source that it didn't happen for sure. Most of what is posted on a forum is opinion/speculation and that's implied naturally. I even admitted it was a haunch and speculation. Never presented it as fact. I think I said something like "I have zero doubt", which is still my own opinion clearly.

You have to prove something rather than disprove something, that's how things work in 'Merica.

GeekInThePink
08-07-2014, 10:38 AM
The tampering is a fact. He tried to lure another player on another team, while under contract. The idea by me that he probably talked to Love before going to Cleveland is obviously speculation. But given the 4-5 day gap between reports of Lebron signing+talking to Love... to say I'm making a huge leap here seems excessive. You really see no possibility for this?

Nope and nope.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 10:38 AM
It is not a fact until Lebron comes out and says he has talked to Love, and he never will. Just because, Woj reported it, doesn't make it true, just like this trade could still fall apart by the 24th.

Woj=fact just about. If he's the dude reporting that they talked 4 or 5 days after Lebron signed, I have zero reason to doubt his sources based on his track record.

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 10:39 AM
It's not tampering if they have permission to talk to him? I assume the Wolves management was in on any trade discussions.

That is true as well.

GeekInThePink
08-07-2014, 10:39 AM
state a source that it didn't happen for sure. Most of what is posted on a forum is opinion/speculation and that's implied naturally. I even admitted it was a haunch and speculation. never presented it as fact. I think i said something like "i have zero doubt", which is still my own opinion clearly.

you said it was a fact lololol

Hennywtf
08-07-2014, 10:40 AM
Whats crazy about all this Kevin Love is only 25 so the Cavs are gonna get his best years if healthy.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 10:40 AM
You have to prove something rather than disprove something, that's how things work in 'Merica.

Lol. Merica!

ThuglifeJ
08-07-2014, 10:40 AM
Can we please just call him princess James now? Seriously, what a spoiled little girl

NYKnickFanatic
08-07-2014, 10:42 AM
The tampering is a fact. He tried to lure another player on another team, while under contract. The idea by me that he probably talked to Love before going to Cleveland is obviously speculation. But given the 4-5 day gap between reports of Lebron signing+talking to Love... to say I'm making a huge leap here seems excessive. You really see no possibility for this?

Dude, players can talk to players about coming to play with them while under contract. There is no rule against that. Noah was telling Melo to come to Chicago during the All-Star game and that was very well known. Didn't see Noah or the Bulls get fined for tampering.

Players can talk to players about playing with each other.

GeekInThePink
08-07-2014, 10:42 AM
"The tampering is a fact. He tried to lure another player on another team, while under contract. The idea by me that he probably talked to Love before going to Cleveland is obviously speculation. But given the 4-5 day gap between reports of Lebron signing+talking to Love... to say I'm making a huge leap here seems excessive. You really see no possibility for this?"

"state a source that it didn't happen for sure. Most of what is posted on a forum is opinion/speculation and that's implied naturally. I even admitted it was a haunch and speculation. never presented it as fact. I think i said something like "i have zero doubt", which is still my own opinion clearly."

All said by you CLIPPERSFAN. whats your response sir?

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 10:42 AM
you said it was a fact lololol

Loose wording on my part, I admit. I elaborated in another post right now, but can continue to do so if you require that.

1. It's obviously not a "fact" by definition. But if Woj is the one reporting it given his reputation and track record, it's as safe a bet as it gets when it comes to rumors or sources.

2. The part I never presented as fact was the collusion claims where I said Lebron and Love probably planned this PRIOR to Lebron signing. Two different issues here.

Let's see if you can keep up here. Two issues.

A. Did Lebron and Love talk after Lebron had signed?

B. Did they plan it prior to Lebron even signing?


I slept 4 hours on a love seat and I didn't think I had to elaborate everything outright. I was just posting my thoughts on the matter.

IndyRealist
08-07-2014, 10:42 AM
State a source that it didn't happen for sure. Most of what is posted on a forum is opinion/speculation and that's implied naturally. I even admitted it was a haunch and speculation. Never presented it as fact. I think I said something like "I have zero doubt", which is still my own opinion clearly.

Really confused. You said the tampering was a FACT, and then here you say it's opinion.

sixers247
08-07-2014, 10:44 AM
Can we please just call him princess James now? Seriously, what a spoiled little girl

Just like you sound like a little ***** always whining about him beause you are jealous. If he was on your team you would be the first one to defend him while cupping his balls and slurping the shaft.

NYKnickFanatic
08-07-2014, 10:46 AM
Just like you sound like a little ***** always whining about him beause you are jealous. If he was on your team you would be the first one to defend him while cupping his balls and slurping the shaft.

Slurping the shaft lol.

phlp_bj
08-07-2014, 10:46 AM
This team has the potential to be so stacked it isn't even fair...

Kyrie Irving/Matthew Dellavedova
Dion Waiters/Ray Allen (if he comes)
LeBron James/Mike Miller/Shawn Marion (if he comes)
Kevin Love/Tristan Thompson/James Jones
Anderson Varejao/Brendan Haywood

Please. That is finals

Why would Marion sign to be a third stringer?

GeekInThePink
08-07-2014, 10:46 AM
Loose wording on my part, I admit. I elaborated in another post right now, but can continue to do so if you require that.

1. It's obviously not a "fact" by definition. But if Woj is the one reporting it given his reputation and track record, it's as safe a bet as it gets when it comes to rumors or sources.

2. The part I never presented as fact was the collusion claims where I said Lebron and Love probably planned this PRIOR to Lebron signing. Two different issues here.

Let's see if you can keep up here. Two issues.

A. Did Lebron and Love talk after Lebron had signed?

B. Did they plan it prior to Lebron even signing?


I slept 4 hours on a love seat and I didn't think I had to elaborate everything outright. I was just posting my thoughts on the matter.

Nice edit. I don't care where you slept, that has nothing to do with me. If you're going to state something as fact, back it up. You lost this argument, and I got a new sig, once I figure out how to change it. (Long time PSD member, usually Lurk instead of post)

Iron24th
08-07-2014, 10:47 AM
Whatever, love and irving aren't committed to defense like wade and bosh

It might not bring the great results people expect

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 10:49 AM
Nice edit. I don't care where you slept, that has nothing to do with me. If you're going to state something as fact, back it up. You lost this argument, and I got a new sig, once I figure out how to change it. (Long time PSD member, usually Lurk instead of post)

What argument? You asked me to explain and I did, I didn't think we were arguing. You didn't present any opposing point of view that I contested. You won't be the first poster to sig something without context. You combined two separate things I was saying into one to make it sound like something else. Doesn't seem like such a bright thing to do.

JustinTime
08-07-2014, 10:49 AM
No thanks. I really hope we don't have to see you in our forum. You are as biased about Canadian affiliated players as Hellcrooner is about Spanish players.

Haha I didn't even know there was enough fans in Minnesota to have a forum but now that I know I'll be sure to visit it regularly.

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 10:51 AM
Haha I didn't even know there was enough fans in Minnesota to have a forum.
I'll make sure to save this quote for the time you come lurking.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 10:52 AM
Geek was your intent to actually get an answer or troll though? I'm wondering because when I explained what you asked me to... your entire focus was on my edit that wasn't related to the answer. You failed to address anything I said related to the topic. I took the time to answer because you seemed sincere about wanting an explanation.

NYKnickFanatic
08-07-2014, 10:53 AM
http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/uncle-drew-wes.jpg

Reunited at last.

GeekInThePink
08-07-2014, 10:53 AM
What argument? You asked me to explain and I did, I didn't think we were arguing. You didn't present any opposing point of view that I contested. You won't be the first poster to sig something without context. You combined two separate things I was saying into one to make it sound like something else. Doesn't seem like such a bright thing to do.

I think you're an alright poster, but don't ever call me not bright, especially when you just went on for pages about something thats a faceless speculation. It's hypocritical and childish.

ewing
08-07-2014, 10:54 AM
Again no proof to collusion either time. Could they have all spoken to each other before and after they were free agents, sure. Will we ever find out, nope.


this a sports forum not a court of law. logic leads me to believe he colluded both times.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 10:56 AM
I think you're an alright poster, but don't ever call me not bright, especially when you just went on for pages about something thats a faceless speculation. It's hypocritical and childish.

Is your ego that big Geek? I said "Doesn't seem like a bright thing to do", didn't say you weren't bright. You really seem to have a vendetta or personal problem with me in this thread over something so trivial. I don't remember us ever speaking much, so not sure why you're being so hostile. The "fact" thing was just a miscommunication on my part and I tried to elaborate for you...

sixers247
08-07-2014, 10:58 AM
HAHA this thread has about three posts on the actual trade and the other all agruing back and forth about nonsense. Including this one.

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 10:58 AM
Is your ego that big Geek? I said "Doesn't seem like a bright thing to do", didn't say you weren't bright. You really seem to have a vendetta or personal problem with me in this thread over something so trivial. I don't remember us ever speaking much, so not sure why you're being so hostile. The "fact" thing was just a miscommunication on my part and I tried to elaborate for you...
I am think you are very reasonable poster and agree that Greek is overreacting. If anyone cares about my opinion of course.

RateSports
08-07-2014, 10:58 AM
Difference is the Bulls current two superstars were drafted. They weren't formed through staged tampering backdoor trade deals for two superstars. That's why I can talk all the sh** I want about stars teaming up when I'm a Clippers fan. DJ/Griffin were drafted and the outgoing package to get CP3 was the best at the time for a rebuilding team and allowed the Pelicans to tank for Davis.

You do realize CP3 was traded to the Lakers right?

The league literally sent CP3 to the Clippers so I wouldn't be too quick to point out how other teams have been formed.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 10:59 AM
this a sports forum not a court of law. logic leads me to believe he colluded both times.

Wrong. This is THE LAW! We better whip into shape or we may be expelled from PSD. NOBODY here speaks without having tested these theories for themselves!! Got it? This forum exists only for those who can PROVE everything remotely over video conferences to the rest of the posters.

GeekInThePink
08-07-2014, 11:01 AM
Is your ego that big Geek? I said "Doesn't seem like a bright thing to do", didn't say you weren't bright. You really seem to have a vendetta or personal problem with me in this thread over something so trivial. I don't remember us ever speaking much, so not sure why you're being so hostile. The "fact" thing was just a miscommunication on my part and I tried to elaborate for you...


I'm not being hostile and if it comes off that way I apologize. I don't agree with you and I'm done speaking to you about it, I just think you're very wrong in this instance.

ankit
08-07-2014, 11:02 AM
Dan Gilbert has no problem with this deal right because its his team that Love is going to unlike what he did when Chris Paul going to the Lakers. I want the commissioner to come up and reject this trade just for that. Doesn't this change the competitive balance in the NBA too?

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 11:03 AM
Back on topic I suppose?

Cavs and Wolves both win, end of story (from me. Better elaborate before someone else gets mad). I'm mostly happy for the Wolves obviously. Love threw that team under the bus a couple times publicly and I'd love to see them with new leadership and a core of players who hopefully WANT to be there. Would LOVE to see Wiggins blow up into the next T-Mac or something in Minny and stay there for the long haul. The core of Rubio/Lavine/Wiggins/Bennet/Dieng should be extremely exciting and promising. Rubio is the perfect point guard for that athleticism that can fastbreak.

The issue is going to be poor shooting in that lineup IMO. None of those 5 guys are good shooters. If the wings can develop a shot and the Wolves can sign some shooting specialists... that team is going to be devastating in 3 years or so.

Arch Stanton
08-07-2014, 11:04 AM
Cleveland fans are awfully lucky.

Yeah we haven't won a championship in 50 years. Pretty lucky!!!

ThuglifeJ
08-07-2014, 11:06 AM
Can we please just call him princess James now? Seriously, what a spoiled little girl

Just like you sound like a little ***** always whining about him beause you are jealous. If he was on your team you would be the first one to defend him while cupping his balls and slurping the shaft.

Lebron has balls? Are you sure about that?

Arch Stanton
08-07-2014, 11:06 AM
Difference is the Bulls current two superstars were drafted. They weren't formed through staged tampering backdoor trade deals for two superstars. That's why I can talk all the sh** I want about stars teaming up when I'm a Clippers fan. DJ/Griffin were drafted and the outgoing package to get CP3 was the best at the time for a rebuilding team and allowed the Pelicans to tank for Davis.

LeBron and Kyrie were drafted by the Cavs.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 11:08 AM
I'm happy for the city of Cleveland as well BTW. The fans have been through hell with Lebron and in general with sports. Not so much for Gilbert/Lebron/Love given the circumstances though. Where I BELIEVE there was tampering and POSSIBLY collusion.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 11:09 AM
LeBron and Kyrie were drafted by the Cavs.

Lebron left and only returned years later when the team was going to be "stacked" (using the word of most right now, not my opinion necessarily). You feel that's the same exact thing as just staying with the team that drafted you lol?

JustinTime
08-07-2014, 11:10 AM
Yeah we haven't won a championship in 50 years. Pretty lucky!!!

And still won't because that team has no d. I would love for Cleveland to end that someday but I'll be cheering against you as long as James is there.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 11:14 AM
And still won't because that team has no d. I would love for Cleveland to end that someday but I'll be cheering against you as long as James is there.

I wouldn't say "no D". I'd more say average D or slightly below average D at best unless they sign a few defensive specialists, Varejao stays healthy AND Love/Kyrie try more on D. Even if all of that pans out... they likely won't be on the level defensively of Lebron's Heat teams. The "Big 3" in Miami had firepower sure.. but what made them hell to play against was that pressure D. Come playoff time when they locked up on D it was beautiful to watch. Tons of blocks/steals leading to highlight fastbreaks.

ellisgw
08-07-2014, 11:17 AM
The cavs are obviously on the trade market for a center... They have picks to give up

JustinTime
08-07-2014, 11:19 AM
Wait this trade doesn't even match salary wise there's gotta be more to it.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 11:20 AM
The cavs are obviously on the trade market for a center... They have picks to give up

The only thing they should be on the market for is some defensive specialists and backup bigs. IF healthy... Varejao is about as perfect of a fit as it gets. Very solid defender, elite rebounder, willing passer.. stays out of the way on offense. He's basically a poor man's Joakim Noah. I don't think they need a center, unless you mean a good backup one.

JustinTime
08-07-2014, 11:21 AM
I wouldn't say "no D". I'd more say average D or slightly below average D at best unless they sign a few defensive specialists, Varejao stays healthy AND Love/Kyrie try more on D. Even if all of that pans out... they likely won't be on the level defensively of Lebron's Heat teams. The "Big 3" in Miami had firepower sure.. but what made them hell to play against was that pressure D. Come playoff time when they locked up on D it was beautiful to watch. Tons of blocks/steals leading to highlight fastbreaks.

Wade, Bosh and James were all elite defenders. Irving, Love, Thompson, and Waiters are big pieces and they're all blow average. I have a hard time seeing that team winning with those guys but we'll see.

mRc08
08-07-2014, 11:22 AM
I wonder if Carmelo is sitting in his ny high rise thinking: "welp, shoulda signed with bulls cause now I'm gonna retire a looser".

Bitter about melo? Yes. But now he has to go through bulls and cavs while one of the top free agents that could possibly join him signed long term with another team in his conference. Enjoy mediocrity melo you can afford as many replica trophies as your heart desires

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 11:26 AM
I wonder if Carmelo is sitting in his ny high rise thinking: "welp, shoulda signed with bulls cause now I'm gonna retire a looser".

Bitter about melo? Yes. But now he has to go through bulls and cavs while one of the top free agents that could possibly join him signed long term with another team in his conference. Enjoy mediocrity melo you can afford as many replica trophies as your heart desires

Bro... Melo would of ruined what you guys have. In terms of fit/chemistry I'd prefer Rose/Gasol/Noah over Rose/Melo/Noah any day. Spurs/Mavs have proven in recent years that raw talent doesn't necessarily beat cohesion, teamwork, balance of roster etc. Gasol individually can't stack up to Melo of course, BUT he does make everyone around him better with his brilliant passing/playmaking. Melo on the other hand sucks the life out of other players and makes them worse. Melo not being on your team will allow Gasol to bounce back, Noah to maintain a bigger role like last year, Butler and Snell to step up.

mRc08
08-07-2014, 11:32 AM
Yeah I see your points and am actually happy with our roster, especially miro and McBuckets. Still, I'm just wondering what went through his head as he checked twitter this morning. I'm not so much mad we didn't get him, but more so that he blatantly said he'd be willing to take less for a winner, and then did the exact opposit. Not sayin bulls even pretty much every team in the melo sweepstakes.

It's a business I get it, he did what he had to to get the max from Phil, but all he will be able to retire with is the fact he was a good business man. I love it

Hangin n Wangin
08-07-2014, 11:37 AM
Seriously? From him, Bosh, and Wade to him, Irving, and Love?? Why does this guy feel the need to flock over to the better team whenever he can? None of the top 10 players ever did this. It's become a circus with this guy, just moving to the next big 3 he can win with the easiest. How can you want to be considered a top 5 player ever, and move around more than a circus clown. This guy likes to form NBA2k teams in real life. I'll never consider this guy a top 5 player ever simply because he can't win with a normal team.

TheIlladelph16
08-07-2014, 11:40 AM
You'd think that Lebron personally went to each PSD members' homes and ****ed their mother with the way some of you act.

Jarvo
08-07-2014, 11:41 AM
I still like The Bulls better to comeout East :hide:

But damn Lebron just made a G move by getting Love.

sharqstealth
08-07-2014, 11:44 AM
I wonder if Carmelo is sitting in his ny high rise thinking: "welp, shoulda signed with bulls cause now I'm gonna retire a looser".

Bitter about melo? Yes. But now he has to go through bulls and cavs while one of the top free agents that could possibly join him signed long term with another team in his conference. Enjoy mediocrity melo you can afford as many replica trophies as your heart desires

Why do Bulls fans always overrate their team? Has to go through Cavs? Yes. But Bulls? Cmon!! We don't even know if Rose will be back to his old self, or when will he blow another knee this upcoming season. Bulls are only good in regular season when competition is at its average. Come playoff time they are such garbage.

Cavalife
08-07-2014, 11:44 AM
A 1st rounder won't be as valuable this year as it has been in Cleveland. I like this trade. Feel good things are happening for my team! :)

mRc08
08-07-2014, 11:46 AM
To contribute to the other conversation in the thread:

I think people are slightly overrating super teams. The heat went 2/4, and while they made it to the finals each year the east sucked.

The celtics dominated the east as well, but only have one ship to show for it.

I can't blame a player for joining other superstars, or hold it against their legacy. It really just gives players/teams that win without multiple superstars more credibility. Think about the year the mavs won. They had an entire nation rooting for them and dirk was able to seal his fate as a hall of famer King slayer

This year, the spurs have been highly regarded by sooo many and with good reason. All in all super teams have shown great success at getting to the finals, and about 50% winning rate. This is while sacrificing personal stats and potentially money. Meanwhile every other team bathes in the glory of underdog status.

NYKnickFanatic
08-07-2014, 11:46 AM
I wonder if Carmelo is sitting in his ny high rise thinking: "welp, shoulda signed with bulls cause now I'm gonna retire a looser".

Bitter about melo? Yes. But now he has to go through bulls and cavs while one of the top free agents that could possibly join him signed long term with another team in his conference. Enjoy mediocrity melo you can afford as many replica trophies as your heart desires

:laugh2: This dude is still in his feelings about Melo not signing with Chicago.

Hahaha.

JustinTime
08-07-2014, 11:46 AM
A 1st rounder won't be as valuable this year as it has been in Cleveland. I like this trade. Feel good things are happening for my team! :)

You realize it's protected too?

FraziersKnicks
08-07-2014, 11:46 AM
I love the Bulls fans that are complaining about "super teams" yet they wanted Melo to form their own big 3 with Rose and Noah and would've had absolutely no problem with that :rolleyes:

lamzoka
08-07-2014, 11:49 AM
This team has the potential to be so stacked it isn't even fair...

Kyrie Irving/Matthew Dellavedova
Dion Waiters/Ray Allen (if he comes)
LeBron James/Mike Miller/Shawn Marion (if he comes)
Kevin Love/Tristan Thompson/James Jones
Anderson Varejao/Brendan Haywood

Please. That is finals


:win:

ThuglifeJ
08-07-2014, 11:49 AM
Seriously? From him, Bosh, and Wade to him, Irving, and Love?? Why does this guy feel the need to flock over to the better team whenever he can? None of the top 10 players ever did this. It's become a circus with this guy, just moving to the next big 3 he can win with the easiest. How can you want to be considered a top 5 player ever, and move around more than a circus clown. This guy like to form NBA2k teams in real life. I'll never consider this guy a top 5 player ever simply because he can't win with a normal team.

Agreed. It seems like a circus. Lebron has become so obsessive with himself and his brand/legacy I don't even think he knows what he's doing in terms of being so non traditional non admirable. How many great players have ever jumped ship like this? Ray Allen?

I'll never agree with it no matter what is said.

seikou8
08-07-2014, 11:49 AM
Why do Bulls fans always overrate their team? Has to go through Cavs? Yes. But Bulls? Cmon!! We don't even know if Rose will be back to his old self, or when will he blow another knee this upcoming season. Bulls are only good in regular season when competition is at its average. Come playoff time they are such garbage.

this not to this extent the bulls are getting overrated big time

mRc08
08-07-2014, 11:50 AM
Laugh at my emotions, I will laugh at ur winning percentage ?

lamzoka
08-07-2014, 11:53 AM
I wonder if Carmelo is sitting in his ny high rise thinking: "welp, shoulda signed with bulls cause now I'm gonna retire a looser".

Bitter about melo? Yes. But now he has to go through bulls and cavs while one of the top free agents that could possibly join him signed long term with another team in his conference. Enjoy mediocrity melo you can afford as many replica trophies as your heart desires

Tell them why u mad son... TELL 'em

JLeBeau76
08-07-2014, 11:55 AM
Wait this trade doesn't even match salary wise there's gotta be more to it.

The Cavs will include one or more of the expiring contracts they received from Utah to even out the math.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-07-2014, 11:56 AM
Irving > Chalmers
Waiters < Wade
LeBron = LeBron
Love > Bosh
Varejao > Oden/Anderson


??????

Will be interesting if Irving and AV can stay healthy. If they both cant. Clock will be ticking before LeBron starts pointing fingers again.

sharqstealth
08-07-2014, 11:56 AM
Laugh at my emotions, I will laugh at ur winning percentage ?

What a loser... Isn't this thread about Love and the Cavs? If you want to talk about Knicks then go to the Knicks forum.

XpLiCiTT
08-07-2014, 12:01 PM
You'd think that Lebron personally went to each PSD members' homes and ****ed their mother with the way some of you act.

This is so true lol.

MonroeFAN
08-07-2014, 12:06 PM
Will be interesting if Irving and AV can stay healthy. If they both cant. Clock will be ticking before LeBron starts pointing fingers again.

Still think LBJ, Love, Marion, Waiters & TT is the best team in the east.

Kind of scary to think about.

Wade n Fade
08-07-2014, 12:08 PM
I still think the Wolves should've held out for Klay Thompson and David Lee since they make the Wolves a better overall team. Wiggins is the only surest thing from this deal since the 1st round pick is protected and Bennett looks like a big time bust.

Slimsim
08-07-2014, 12:12 PM
I wonder if Carmelo is sitting in his ny high rise thinking: "welp, shoulda signed with bulls cause now I'm gonna retire a looser".

Bitter about melo? Yes. But now he has to go through bulls and cavs while one of the top free agents that could possibly join him signed long term with another team in his conference. Enjoy mediocrity melo you can afford as many replica trophies as your heart desires

I bet pippen a winner by nba standards would trade those rings for
Melo 124 million so who's the loser now ?

Slimsim
08-07-2014, 12:17 PM
Waiter have all-star potential if he breaks out so a see a potential big 4 and LeBron is known to bringing the best out of his teammates

ChI_ShIzzLe
08-07-2014, 12:21 PM
I find it hilarious when Knicks fans call the Bulls overrated

Teeboy1487
08-07-2014, 12:21 PM
Great trade for both teams. I would hold on to Bennett if I were the wolves though. I would give him a chance to prove himself. First time ever I'm excited to see a Lebron team.

knicksfan1794
08-07-2014, 12:22 PM
how do the salaries match. Love makes 15 mil

both bennent and wiggins make a little over 5

other pieces have to be in place don't they?

xnick5757
08-07-2014, 12:22 PM
This team has the potential to be so stacked it isn't even fair...

Kyrie Irving/Matthew Dellavedova
Dion Waiters/Ray Allen (if he comes)
LeBron James/Mike Miller/Shawn Marion (if he comes)
Kevin Love/Tristan Thompson/James Jones
Anderson Varejao/Brendan Haywood

Please. That is finals


so who is playing defense on that team?

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 12:23 PM
Waiter have all-star potential if he breaks out so a see a potential big 4 and LeBron is known to bringing the best out of his teammates

There is only one ball. There aren't enough possessions for guys like Waiters to blow up. Lebron/Love/Irving will eat 90 percent of their possessions.

mRc08
08-07-2014, 12:24 PM
Do you guys think cavs will be able to fully utilize each players offensive game? If not who takes on the Chris bosh role of the three?

jakedajewler
08-07-2014, 12:44 PM
Don't like what they did to wiggins, just letting him twist in the wind for a month, didn't tell him anything he's doing interview and has no idea what's going on, hopefully he uses it as motivation

goingfor28
08-07-2014, 12:45 PM
Poor Wiggins

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 12:47 PM
Speaking of Wiggins.. part of my opinion that collusion happened was based on Lebron's words the day he signed in Cleveland. Mentions the Cleveland core.. but conveniently left out Wiggins/Bennett and hasn't spoken to Wiggins since signing. Anyone else find that suspect?

Chronz
08-07-2014, 12:48 PM
There is only one ball. There aren't enough possessions for guys like Waiters to blow up. Lebron/Love/Irving will eat 90 percent of their possessions.

What do you mean guys like Waiters? U implying a limitation in his game given his teammates or simply saying its impossible for peripheral players to break out in such an environment?

NBAfan4life
08-07-2014, 12:49 PM
I'm happy it's Wiggins and Bennett, and not Thad. Living in Minnesota is difficult enough lol.

mjt20mik
08-07-2014, 12:52 PM
There are too many what ifs to make a strong decision on whether CLE colluded or not. It could be a part of the pitch to get Lebron that Gilbert said we'd go after Kevin Love (cause there was interest before prior to Lebron's signing). It is not collusion if the head office spoke to Minni and K.Love's people and told them that they wanted to get involved.

Swift Game
08-07-2014, 12:53 PM
You guys knew the Fix was in when the Cavs got the 1st pick in the draft again some magical way. This was all mapped out by the NBA and most reasonable people will be able to see that. WWE 2.0.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 12:54 PM
What do you mean guys like Waiters? U implying a limitation in his game given his teammates or simply saying its impossible for peripheral players to break out in such an environment?

I don't mean Waiters specifically, although with his Jordan Crawford complex, he may struggle more than most. I'm just trying to be literal though in this. I don't think any role players would "blow up" offensively when they play with 3 stars that use so many possessions.

Not saying it hasn't happened, just have my doubts.

FlashBolt
08-07-2014, 12:55 PM
I bet pippen a winner by nba standards would trade those rings for
Melo 124 million so who's the loser now ?

Why are you on an NBA forum discussing basketball if money is the sole standard of your argument. Heck, Gilbert Arenas is making NBA elite player money while not even playing in the NBA.

FlashBolt
08-07-2014, 12:56 PM
You guys knew the Fix was in when the Cavs got the 1st pick in the draft again some magical way. This was all mapped out by the NBA and most reasonable people will be able to see that. WWE 2.0.

Actually, if you knew how the drafting selections would work, you would know that it is near impossible to fix it.

http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/3c/2d/3c2d1019f482c42c775e267c0aef9a41.png

This is also included with the bonus of those 14 team representatives being present in this along with an independent accounting firm to witness the selections and 4 media members. How do they rig the draft without 13 of those members realizing?

Btw, Cleveland only won the 1st pick twice since LeBron. Clippers actually won the Kyrie one.

JustinTime
08-07-2014, 12:58 PM
I'm happy it's Wiggins and Bennett, and not Thad. Living in Minnesota is difficult enough lol.

Not over yet unfortunately the T-wolves are still talking to the 76ers. One source says they weren't another says they are.

mjt20mik
08-07-2014, 12:59 PM
Why does every thread turn into a NY vs CHI fight?

ThuglifeJ
08-07-2014, 01:00 PM
Waiter have all-star potential if he breaks out so a see a potential big 4 and LeBron is known to bringing the best out of his teammates

Lol is he? He can bring out good in role players I think bosh and wade can say he doesn't bring out the best in them.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 01:01 PM
Hmm... I didn't realize Waiters was such a good catch and shoot player.

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/11292706/how-lebron-james-fit-cleveland-espn-magazine

43.3 percent on catch and shoot 3's.


Still this article highlights much of what I've believed. Elite scoring/rebounding... but defense and backup bigs may be an issue. Well of course the health of Varejao as well.

east fb knicks
08-07-2014, 01:04 PM
Tell them why u mad son... TELL 'em

:mad::laugh2:

KnickaBocka.44
08-07-2014, 01:08 PM
Anyone concerned about the Cavs on the defensive end of the floor? Andy V and Lebron are the only 2 guys who can defend on that whole squad.

east fb knicks
08-07-2014, 01:08 PM
very bad move by the cavs 3 first overall picks and they only keep one wiggins is going to be a beast mark my words the cavs will be regretting this in 3 years lbj love irving is not going to win a title I don't even think they could beat the bulls in a playoff series

they could have kept wiggins and just signed love:facepalm:

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 01:12 PM
Anyone concerned about the Cavs on the defensive end of the floor? Andy V and Lebron are the only 2 guys who can defend on that whole squad.

And according to Cavs fans Delladova= prime Gary Payton on D just about. But go read my thread about "The Cavs are going to be worse than expected even with Love" or whatever. I mentioned this.

FlashBolt
08-07-2014, 01:18 PM
very bad move by the cavs 3 first overall picks and they only keep one wiggins is going to be a beast mark my words the cavs will be regretting this in 3 years lbj love irving is not going to win a title I don't even think they could beat the bulls in a playoff series

they could have kept wiggins and just signed love:facepalm:

They wouldn't have the salary cap required for Love without getting rid of Bennett/Wiggins contract - they take up $11 million together. It is a gamble just because Wiggins might be a really GREAT player but the thing is, you have a great player right now and we all know Kevin Love/Kyrie are both only going to get better. This was a no-brainer. Not to mention the fact that Love might be enticed to go to Lakers and change his mind about the Cavs. With the guarantee that Love will resign for 5 years, Cleveland made an even better investment.

NYKnickFanatic
08-07-2014, 01:19 PM
Why does every thread turn into a NY vs CHI fight?

Well, a Bulls fan brought up Melo having to go up against the Cavs and Bulls, saying he should have just signed with Chicago and then it escalated from there.

ThuglifeJ
08-07-2014, 01:19 PM
You guys knew the Fix was in when the Cavs got the 1st pick in the draft again some magical way. This was all mapped out by the NBA and most reasonable people will be able to see that. WWE 2.0.

I was always wondering why cavs kept getting the lottery fixed for them..ppl said to help recover from lebron but I was like ?? Do they really care about Cleveland? NOW It makes sense. It was because lebron was coming BACK so they wanted another stacked team to drive in revenue and most importantly little to no challenge for The Princess's championships again.


God I miss Jordan.

Working for something is a foreign term in today's society.

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 01:19 PM
Do you guys think cavs will be able to fully utilize each players offensive game? If not who takes on the Chris bosh role of the three?

I think Kyrie will have to, simply because Lebron and Love work better together on paper and Love has a huge ego, but who knows.

Chaotic98
08-07-2014, 01:24 PM
And according to Cavs fans Delladova= prime Gary Payton on D just about. But go read my thread about "The Cavs are going to be worse than expected even with Love" or whatever. I mentioned this.

The Cav's team D will be in the 9-12 range. Their offense will be in the top 3. That is more than enough to make it to the ECF and beyond. People are thinking here that their defense will be in the bottom third of the league based on their players' past records of not playing d.

Why would The Cavs roster of rookies who are losing more often than not, dedicate themselves to playing hard D when O through a young players' eye is much more fun and statistically appealing. They now have a roster that can win, it's safe to hypothesize that they will show more effort and dedication to win.

bmanjones
08-07-2014, 01:26 PM
Dan Gilbert and the city of cleveland do not deserve this. Such a waste of championships in a contemptible city with scum bag owner.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 01:27 PM
The Cav's team D will be in the 9-12 range. Their offense will be in the top 3. That is more than enough to make it to the ECF and beyond. People are thinking here that their defense will be in the bottom third of the league based on their players' past records of not playing d.

Why would The Cavs roster of rookies who are losing more often than not, dedicate themselves to playing hard D when O through a young players' eye is much more fun and statistically appealing. They now have a roster that can win, it's safe to hypothesize that they will show more effort and dedication to win.

I'd say more like 10-15 D at best IF Varejao is healthy. I agree with top 3 offense assuming they all buy in and mesh well.

IgglesFanInCO
08-07-2014, 01:28 PM
So Lebron is surrounded by elite shooters and rebounders and a true center? GG

Oefarmy2005
08-07-2014, 01:29 PM
Love's defense has improved quite a bit since his rookie year actually. Don't listen to the 57.xx% he allowed at the rim, it was not from his opponent, but who ever was at the rim, like the guy that just beat Martin off the dribble and had an open lane to the rim. I think with less pressure to do everything, Love will apply himself more on D. I hope Kyrie can do the same, since he has the tools to be a good defender for sure.

east fb knicks
08-07-2014, 01:29 PM
They wouldn't have the salary cap required for Love without getting rid of Bennett/Wiggins contract - they take up $11 million together. It is a gamble just because Wiggins might be a really GREAT player but the thing is, you have a great player right now and we all know Kevin Love/Kyrie are both only going to get better. This was a no-brainer. Not to mention the fact that Love might be enticed to go to Lakers and change his mind about the Cavs. With the guarantee that Love will resign for 5 years, Cleveland made an even better investment.
they could have easily unloaded tt and waiters or bennet kept wiggins and signed love don't give me they didn't have the money crap this is just gilbert being a dumass again and going for the big name instead of going about things the right way im very excited for minny but for teams like philly Utah Orlando it sux to tank all year for the number 1 pick just to see him go to a team that didn't want him very bad move by the cavs and lets be real they made the move to sell tickets not win games that's not how a team should operate

east fb knicks
08-07-2014, 01:32 PM
Love's defense has improved quite a bit since his rookie year actually. Don't listen to the 57.xx% he allowed at the rim, it was not from his opponent, but who ever was at the rim, like the guy that just beat Martin off the dribble and had an open lane to the rim. I think with less pressure to do everything, Love will apply himself more on D. I hope Kyrie can do the same, since he has the tools to be a good defender for sure.

idk man im a huge love fan but his d is pretty bad I saw Tyson and amare abuse him last year and Tyson sux on offense it's pretty bad

Chaotic98
08-07-2014, 01:45 PM
idk man im a huge love fan but his d is pretty bad I saw Tyson and amare abuse him last year and Tyson sux on offense it's pretty bad

Tyson is a C, Love is PF, they shouldn't be guarding each other unless it's on a forced switch. Amare hasn't abused anyone other than Dolan's wallet for a couple of years now.

Hawkeye15
08-07-2014, 01:49 PM
Tyson is a C, Love is PF, they shouldn't be guarding each other unless it's on a forced switch. Amare hasn't abused anyone other than Dolan's wallet for a couple of years now.

pretty funny

jerellh528
08-07-2014, 01:51 PM
Lol 2 more superstars to pair with lbj. just when I was ready to close the book on my dislike for him, he rips it wide open.

jmartin80
08-07-2014, 01:52 PM
And now the NBA script entitled "Save our Poster Child" is almost complete. 3 out of 4 first rounds, give enough talent and pieces together in his home town where he ran away from... only thing left is a title.

There is no difference between this and 2010. I have no idea how anyone can respect Lebron as a player.

abe_froman
08-07-2014, 01:57 PM
lol wow the hate for this from lebron haters(frankly they'd hate whatever happened,no matter how)

east fb knicks
08-07-2014, 01:57 PM
Tyson is a C, Love is PF, they shouldn't be guarding each other unless it's on a forced switch. Amare hasn't abused anyone other than Dolan's wallet for a couple of years now.

im not lying bro I watched the game Tyson literally called love out on his bad d at halftime and fyi Tyson actually weighs less then love and is only 2 inches taller and he is also horrid on offense

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqmt6f2PYzQ

bucketss
08-07-2014, 01:58 PM
Lol 2 more superstars to pair with lbj. just when I was ready to close the book on my dislike for him, he rips it wide open.

never seen anyone call irving a superstar but i guess they will start now.

LakerShow
08-07-2014, 01:59 PM
And now the NBA script entitled "Save our Poster Child" is almost complete. 3 out of 4 first rounds, give enough talent and pieces together in his home town where he ran away from... only thing left is a title.

There is no difference between this and 2010. I have no idea how anyone can respect Lebron as a player.

He has always been a puss, once the going gets tough, he dips.

bucketss
08-07-2014, 02:00 PM
And now the NBA script entitled "Save our Poster Child" is almost complete. 3 out of 4 first rounds, give enough talent and pieces together in his home town where he ran away from... only thing left is a title.

There is no difference between this and 2010. I have no idea how anyone can respect Lebron as a player.

if we try as hard as you i guess we can all hate lebron to lol

KnickaBocka.44
08-07-2014, 02:02 PM
And according to Cavs fans Delladova= prime Gary Payton on D just about. But go read my thread about "The Cavs are going to be worse than expected even with Love" or whatever. I mentioned this.

Seems like too much of a deficiency to overlook. Delladova will only get 12 minutes or so, not enough to make a real difference against other teams starters.

kampz
08-07-2014, 02:02 PM
Cleveland gets away with Highway Robbery.

abe_froman
08-07-2014, 02:05 PM
And now the NBA script entitled "Save our Poster Child" is almost complete. 3 out of 4 first rounds, give enough talent and pieces together in his home town where he ran away from... only thing left is a title.

There is no difference between this and 2010. I have no idea how anyone can respect Lebron as a player.
there's a big difference.the heat trio colluded to team up.irving re upped before there was ever a hint of lebron returning and traded the highest rated spec since oden/kd draft to get love...but like said,it doesnt matter,if it involves lebron there will be hate for whatever happens

Chaotic98
08-07-2014, 02:09 PM
There is no difference between this and 2010. I have no idea how anyone can respect Lebron as a player.

Really? I don't think LBJ colluded with Love, Irving and the Cavs during the season or the all-star game and said hey lets all meet up in Cleveland like in 2010. He was fortunate enough to go back to the Cavs, who had enough young assets to flip for Love. Minnesota is receiving a pretty good deal considering they could have lost Love for nothing next year.

bucketss
08-07-2014, 02:09 PM
Cleveland gets away with Highway Robbery.

two former 1st round picks, one was described as the Canadian lebron james, plus a 1st rounder for a guy who made it public he would not resign with his current team. how is that robbery?

jmartin80
08-07-2014, 02:11 PM
there's a big difference.the heat trio colluded to team up.irving re upped before there was ever a hint of lebron returning and traded the highest rated spec since oden/kd draft to get love...but like said,it doesnt matter,if it involves lebron there will be hate for whatever happens

Heat had one player (Wade).

Brought in a free agent (Lebron)

Then brought in an all star PF (Bosh).

See what I did there? Irving, Lebron and Love. Same scenario. If you think they didn't collude for this to happen, then I have some great beach side real estate to sell you via Pay Pal.

p.s. The highest rated spec they traded was again given to them 3 out of 4 years in a row at a 1.6% chance. I am not going that far out of the way here.

True Sports Fan
08-07-2014, 02:12 PM
Difference is the Bulls current two superstars were drafted. They weren't formed through staged tampering backdoor trade deals for two superstars. That's why I can talk all the sh** I want about stars teaming up when I'm a Clippers fan. DJ/Griffin were drafted and the outgoing package to get CP3 was the best at the time for a rebuilding team and allowed the Pelicans to tank for Davis.

Cavs drafted LeBron and Irving too though. Only superstar they didn't draft was Love, but they traded a solid package for him.

east fb knicks
08-07-2014, 02:13 PM
two former 1st round picks, one was described as the Canadian lebron james, plus a 1st rounder for a guy who made it public he would not resign with his current team. how is that robbery?

yeah it's pretty safe to say minny won this trade if the cavs front office wasn't so dumb they could have called minnys bluff and got love for bennet and waiters or some thing like that

mjt20mik
08-07-2014, 02:16 PM
yeah it's pretty safe to say minny won this trade if the cavs front office wasn't so dumb they could have called minnys bluff and got love for bennet and waiters or some thing like that

I'd honestly have Wiggins over Waiters, but I think the Cavs wanted to keep Waiters (for what reason I don't know).

mbsalame123
08-07-2014, 02:17 PM
Well this trade can't work financially just so that you know. Players like John Lucas and Erik Murphy would have to be included in the deal for it to work financially, and that shouldn't be a problem considering they are both non-guaranteed contracts. So expect more pieces to be included to work out things financially.

There are rumors that the wolves want to get rid of the expiring contracts of JJ Barrea, Alexey Shved, Luc Richard Mbah A Moute and are willing to include Shabazz Muhammed in a deal to get it done along with possibly a draft pick. So maybe the cavs end up taking on Alexey or Luc Richard or maybe not but maybe the wolves get a trade done with philedalphia by sending all those players along with a draft pick for thaddeus young, without having to get rid of anthony bennett.

What do you guys think?

KnickaBocka.44
08-07-2014, 02:18 PM
Heat had one player (Wade).

Brought in a free agent (Lebron)

Then brought in an all star PF (Bosh).

See what I did there? Irving, Lebron and Love. Same scenario. If you think they didn't collude for this to happen, then I have some great beach side real estate to sell you via Pay Pal.

p.s. The highest rated spec they traded was again given to them 3 out of 4 years in a row at a 1.6% chance. I am not going that far out of the way here.


http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/17/report-lebron-james-has-reached-out-to-kevin-love-to-express-interest-in-him-playing-for-cavaliers/

This is the proof of tampering.

WITZ
08-07-2014, 02:22 PM
And according to Cavs fans Delladova= prime Gary Payton on D just about. But go read my thread about "The Cavs are going to be worse than expected even with Love" or whatever. I mentioned this.

WTF I hope nobody actually said this :laugh2: . Hes more of varajao in a PG body were as he just pesters the player and never takes his foot off the gas.

ChI_ShIzzLe
08-07-2014, 02:25 PM
Poor Wiggins
The kid can't catch a break. He had to go from living in Cleveland to living in Minnesota.

InRoseWeTrust
08-07-2014, 02:25 PM
I think the difference between this "collusion" and the 2010 Heat "collusion" was the timing. I think in 2010, Wade, Bron, and Bosh knew they were going to Miami before the season ended. The process was a joke for them where they basically punked the league.

Here, I don't believe LeBron knew he was returning to Cleveland before the season ended. I really don't. I think he was giving it serious, serious consideration, but I don't think he decided until shortly thereafter, at which point he/the Cavs floated the idea of bringing Love in. If you had asked Kevin Love 60 days ago if he would be playing for the Cavs this season, I think he would have laughed his *** off at you.

Arch Stanton
08-07-2014, 02:26 PM
Lebron left and only returned years later when the team was going to be "stacked" (using the word of most right now, not my opinion necessarily). You feel that's the same exact thing as just staying with the team that drafted you lol?

It's not the same thing but really who cares? LeBron came home because he wanted to be home. How can he know for sure that the Cavs were going to acquire Love? Since Love plays for the Wolves he cannot force Flip Saunders to trade him to Cleveland.

Arch Stanton
08-07-2014, 02:27 PM
And still won't because that team has no d. I would love for Cleveland to end that someday but I'll be cheering against you as long as James is there.

So you're a Wolves fan now? YESSSSSSSS!!!! You won't be posting in the Cavs forum any longer.

ChI_ShIzzLe
08-07-2014, 02:28 PM
Well, a Bulls fan brought up Melo having to go up against the Cavs and Bulls, saying he should have just signed with Chicago and then it escalated from there.
I don't understand what there is to be upset about because the Cavs and Bulls are an oceans length better than the Knicks.

Romo2Bryant
08-07-2014, 02:29 PM
Someone I think the Cavaliers might consider trading for is Kosta Koufos. Cavaliers currently have Memphis 2015 first round pick (protected 1-5, 15-30), so they might end up just giving the pick back to Memphis.

NYKnickFanatic
08-07-2014, 02:31 PM
I don't understand what there is to be upset about because the Cavs and Bulls are an oceans length better than the Knicks.

What's your point? Did I get upset? No.

This thread has nothing to do with the Knicks or Bulls and somehow a Bulls fan brought Melo and the Knicks into this because he is still in his feelings that Melo didn't sign with Chicago.

jmartin80
08-07-2014, 02:32 PM
It's not the same thing but really who cares? LeBron came home because he wanted to be home. How can he know for sure that the Cavs were going to acquire Love? Since Love plays for the Wolves he cannot force Flip Saunders to trade him to Cleveland.

You really think he returned to Cleveland because it "was his home"? I am not buying that for one second. If that was the case he never would have left in the first place.

He just happened to return after they had been gifted enough from the NBA so he could win easily with other superstars. I am guessing his mind was made up the second the received yet another #1 pick this year.

Cleveland fans can justify it all they want but remain the biggest hypocrites (including Gilbert and his anti super team stance) in sports today.

torocan
08-07-2014, 02:34 PM
*Yawn*. I don't see the Cavs and Heat situation as similar at all.

Lebron and Love aren't giving discounts. Lebron was a FA, but Love isn't. Minnesota could just as easily have traded him to GSW if GSW was willing to give up more assets, or even held onto him for another season. It's different than having 3 stars time their FA's together and all signing for equal discount contracts.

Also, the Cavs were always in Lebron's sights. The guy has been talking about going back to Cleveland forever so him going back to Cleveland at some point surprised nobody.

And let's not forget that nobody actually had any idea that Lebron would opt out and leave Miami this season.

Let's be honest, if the Heat had beaten the Spurs this year then Lebron stays with the Heat. Heck, if they were even competitive, Wade doesn't look like total garbage, the Heat don't try to save money by cutting Miller and not using their MLE to avoid the luxury tax, and Riley doesn't call Lebron out we're most likely looking at Spurs vs Heat rd 3 next season.

Lebron went to Cleveland and now they're trying to build the best team they can. Minnesota is getting a solid package of value in return with Bennett and Wiggins... do you see any teams that were willing to give a better package with GSW unwilling to give up Thompson?

And while the Cavs are loaded with talent and just signed Miller and Jones, let's not underestimate that the team is still filled with a lot of younger players. They just aren't anywhere near good enough to beat an experienced Spurs, OKC or Clippers team next year. I doubt they'll even beat the Bulls if Rose is back at an Elite level.

The Cavs are building a really good team for the future, but they're young, Blatt is new to the NBA, and the team coming out of the West is still the most likely to be the Champs next year whether that's the Spurs, OKC, or the Clippers.

Maybe in a year or two they'll reach the top of the mountain, but it's not like OKC and the Clippers are going to stand still. GSW is still going to improve. There's no counting out Morey and the Rockets with another season or two of wheeling and dealing. The Wizards and Raptors are gaining experience and chemistry. And PG won't be out forever.

And is anyone really dumb enough to count the Spurs out after what we've seen the last 2 years?

The only reason the Cavs are even in the Finals conversation is due to how weak the Eastern Conference is right now. They wouldn't even be a top 4 seed in the West.

Maybe Lebron wins a chip with the Cavs, but as we all know there's no guarantees in the NBA.

Arch Stanton
08-07-2014, 02:34 PM
You really think he returned to Cleveland because it "was his home"? I am not buying that for one second. If that was the case he never would have left in the first place.

He just happened to return after they had been gifted enough from the NBA so he could win easily with other superstars. I am guessing his mind was made up the second the received yet another #1 pick this year.

Cleveland fans can justify it all they want but remain the biggest hypocrites (including Gilbert and his anti super team stance) in sports today.

Sounds like you're a little upset. Yes, I do think he wanted to come home. No they weren't gifted #1 picks because the lottery cannot be rigged. We're the biggest hypocrites for accepting him back? Okay if you say so Pal!

bucketss
08-07-2014, 02:35 PM
The kid can't catch a break. He had to go from living in Cleveland to living in Minnesota.

seems like a upgrade to me.

WITZ
08-07-2014, 02:41 PM
Sounds like you're a little upset. Yes, I do think he wanted to come home. No they weren't gifted #1 picks because the lottery cannot be rigged. We're the biggest hypocrites for accepting him back? Okay if you say so Pal!

Yea i'm sure the 29 other teams reps in the room were cool with that :laugh2: .Some people just love them some conspiracy ****

FraziersKnicks
08-07-2014, 02:41 PM
Lol 2 more superstars to pair with lbj. just when I was ready to close the book on my dislike for him, he rips it wide open.

Just like when Kobe got Pau and Dwight…?

0nekhmer
08-07-2014, 02:41 PM
As a raptors fan, i like the trade. Sending more star power to the east to balance things out, then i like it for the wolves and wiggins. Andrew will be developing along with zach lavine, benett to form their own big 3(too bad they're in the west though)

FraziersKnicks
08-07-2014, 02:44 PM
Yea i'm sure the 29 other teams reps in the room were cool with that :laugh2: .Some people just love them some conspiracy ****

This.

People really need to stfu with these conspiracy rumours. There are too many facts disproving these myths. If it was rigged the Lakers and Celtics would've got the 1/2 picks this year. Wiggins/Parker to be the Magic/Bird rivalry. Not small market Cleveland.

But no the NBA wants all the money in the mistake by the lake :rolleyes:

lamzoka
08-07-2014, 02:45 PM
Tyson is a C, Love is PF, they shouldn't be guarding each other unless it's on a forced switch. Amare hasn't abused anyone other than Dolan's wallet for a couple of years now.


:laugh:

ChI_ShIzzLe
08-07-2014, 02:52 PM
What's your point? Did I get upset? No.

This thread has nothing to do with the Knicks or Bulls and somehow a Bulls fan brought Melo and the Knicks into this because he is still in his feelings that Melo didn't sign with Chicago.
He's thinking from Melo's perspective obviously but I disagree because Melo only cares about his paychecks, which will have plenty of zeroes just like his resume under the section "Championships".

B'sCeltsPatsSox
08-07-2014, 03:02 PM
This thread is great. It's gonna be even better in the playoffs when people will say the Cavs won't win because "Love and Kyrie aren't that good" but when they make it to the ECF or possibly even win it all it'll all be because "Kyrie and Love are just so great!"

B'sCeltsPatsSox
08-07-2014, 03:03 PM
Why would Marion sign to be a third stringer?

There was someone who reported the other day, I think it was Stein, that said there was mutual interest. It'd obviously be the best though for Marion to go to Indiana.

Arch Stanton
08-07-2014, 03:06 PM
There was someone who reported the other day, I think it was Stein, that said there was mutual interest. It'd obviously be the best though for Marion to go to Indiana.

Yep, it has been reported that Marion prefers the Cavs (who can only offer him the Vet min) over the Pacers, who can pay him more now that George is done for the season. Also, why would he meet with the Griffin and Blatt in Cleveland knowing that they cannot offer him more than the Vet min? I believe he is just waiting for Love to land in Cleveland, then he'll make it official.

jmartin80
08-07-2014, 03:08 PM
This thread is great. It's gonna be even better in the playoffs when people will say the Cavs won't win because "Love and Kyrie aren't that good" but when they make it to the ECF or possibly even win it all it'll all be because "Kyrie and Love are just so great!"

If they win, it will be because Lebron is the greatest player ever and makes everyone around him better. If they don't, it is because he doesn't have enough support or because they are young.

LAKobeBryant
08-07-2014, 03:08 PM
lebron has the easiest career in the basketball HOF?

B'sCeltsPatsSox
08-07-2014, 03:13 PM
If they win, it will be because Lebron is the greatest player ever and makes everyone around him better. If they don't, it is because he doesn't have enough support or because they are young.

The thing is though, the only time LeBron was responsible for a playoff loss in Miami was when they lost to Dallas in the Finals. All of the other series' they won were mostly because of him.

bleedprple&gold
08-07-2014, 03:22 PM
Yea i'm sure the 29 other teams reps in the room were cool with that :laugh2: .Some people just love them some conspiracy ****

This.

People really need to stfu with these conspiracy rumours. There are too many facts disproving these myths. If it was rigged the Lakers and Celtics would've got the 1/2 picks this year. Wiggins/Parker to be the Magic/Bird rivalry. Not small market Cleveland.

But no the NBA wants all the money in the mistake by the lake :rolleyes:

I don't believe in conspiracies either but the chance of Cleveland getting all those number 1s was like 1 in 10000 so it being rigged actually makes the most sense. And it's not because they want Cleveland to thrive, it's because of the whole Lebron returning home story has been great for the nba. If the draft is really rigged their plan carried out about as perfectly as they could have hoped for.

Arch Stanton
08-07-2014, 03:26 PM
I don't believe in conspiracies either but the chance of Cleveland getting all those number 1s was like 1 in 10000 so it being rigged actually makes the most sense. And it's not because they want Cleveland to thrive, it's because of the whole Lebron returning home story has been great for the nba. If the draft is really rigged their plan carried out about as perfectly as they could have hoped for.

So what you're saying is: "Not that I believe in conspiracies, but I do believe in conspiracies."

prodigy
08-07-2014, 03:29 PM
lebron has the easiest career in the basketball HOF?

He's 2-2 in finals, MJ 6-0 that sounds easier lol.

WITZ
08-07-2014, 03:30 PM
I don't believe in conspiracies either but the chance of Cleveland getting all those number 1s was like 1 in 10000 so it being rigged actually makes the most sense. And it's not because they want Cleveland to thrive, it's because of the whole Lebron returning home story has been great for the nba. If the draft is really rigged their plan carried out about as perfectly as they could have hoped for.

They were just incredibly lucky because the other reps literally have no incentive to just sit there and be like fine let the cavs take the 1st pick .People don't know but they were a coin flip away from landing the unibrow but won the toss moved up to 3rd best odds and the pelicans at 4th moved up to the 1 slot.

prodigy
08-07-2014, 03:31 PM
Why would Marion sign to be a third stringer?

There was someone who reported the other day, I think it was Stein, that said there was mutual interest. It'd obviously be the best though for Marion to go to Indiana.

Money wise yes its the best, but not winning wise. I'm not sure what Marion is Interested in.

FraziersKnicks
08-07-2014, 03:34 PM
I don't believe in conspiracies either but the chance of Cleveland getting all those number 1s was like 1 in 10000 so it being rigged actually makes the most sense. And it's not because they want Cleveland to thrive, it's because of the whole Lebron returning home story has been great for the nba. If the draft is really rigged their plan carried out about as perfectly as they could have hoped for.

IF THE DRAFT IS RIGGED ALL THE OTHER 29 TEAMS IN THE NBA WOULD HAVE TO BE IN ON IT.

When will people understand this? There are representatives from all 29 teams in the room when the order is picked. Every single team would have to be willing to give the Cavs these picks. Do you think the Sixers, Jazz and Magic were happy about giving up a shot at Wiggins/Parker/Embiid?

NYKnickFanatic
08-07-2014, 03:42 PM
He's thinking from Melo's perspective obviously but I disagree because Melo only cares about his paychecks, which will have plenty of zeroes just like his resume under the section "Championships".

I just returned from a ban, so I'm not going to reply to your obvious bait.

But in the end, money > rings.

bucketss
08-07-2014, 03:49 PM
There was someone who reported the other day, I think it was Stein, that said there was mutual interest. It'd obviously be the best though for Marion to go to Indiana.

hes 36, he'd probably wants to be on a contender.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 03:56 PM
He's 2-2 in finals, MJ 6-0 that sounds easier lol.

No he isn't. He's 2-5.

Arch Stanton
08-07-2014, 03:57 PM
No he isn't. He's 2-5.

Both of you are wrong... he's 2-3 in the finals.

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 04:04 PM
Both of you are wrong... he's 2-3 in the finals.

I meant 2 for 5... not 2 and 5.

TheSilentBang
08-07-2014, 04:08 PM
I thought Minny was gonna be able to dump some bad contracts and also command another 1st rd pick from CLE? Why is it protected too btw, cmon Minnesota.

JNA17
08-07-2014, 04:14 PM
So Rose, Love, Pau and Noah are not a super team?

Rose will probably never be the same player again, Pau is average and not the same player either, and Noah is by no means a superstar, at all.

JLeBeau76
08-07-2014, 04:22 PM
I thought Minny was gonna be able to dump some bad contracts and also command another 1st rd pick from CLE? Why is it protected too btw, cmon Minnesota.

The pick is being reported as the Miami Heats 2015 pick, which is top 10 protected

bucketss
08-07-2014, 04:23 PM
so when did kyrie become a superstar?

Clippersfan86
08-07-2014, 04:24 PM
so when did kyrie become a superstar?

He isn't close to a "superstar". He's an all star.

ChitownSports16
08-07-2014, 04:24 PM
so when did kyrie become a superstar?

This.... Or even Love for that matter...

Arch Stanton
08-07-2014, 04:29 PM
The pick is being reported as the Miami Heats 2015 pick, which is top 10 protected

The Memphis pick is worth more with it's protection. That will eventually become a lottery pick in the next few years.

JNA17
08-07-2014, 04:35 PM
This.... Or even Love for that matter...

The best PF in the league as well as top 10 player in the league is not superstar level? Since when? :laugh2:

Vee-Rex
08-07-2014, 04:36 PM
I like how the one guy was crying rigged and said teams like Utah Orlando and Philly deserved the number one pick more because they tanked...

Lol :-D