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FriedTofuz
08-05-2014, 11:00 AM
EDIT AS FOR AUGUST 25TH:

Demar Made the USA team over Lillard, Parsons and Korver. What are you thoughts?

How Far can he take the Toronto Raptors.
As a player, how far can he go?
He's an extremely hard worker and continues to improve his game.

He averaged 23/4/4 last season.
While averaging 25/5/4 in the playoffs vs the nets losing in 7 games.

Personally I think if he became a better 3PT shooter, and Defender, he'd be a lot better and more efficient.

MonroeFAN
08-05-2014, 11:04 AM
He had better numbers than I would have thought. He's starting to become a top guard in the league, and you can see his 3 point shooting has improved. If he continues to work on his shot I could see him entering star territory.

rocket
08-05-2014, 11:05 AM
Damn i didn't even know he avged those stats. He's breaking out

Animosity
08-05-2014, 11:14 AM
I don't think he needs to carry the team. With them retaining their core as a young team it will have to be a team effort. Should be an exciting season for a young team. Raptors fans are fortunate to keep Lowry and have an exciting team that is only going to get better.

ManRam
08-05-2014, 11:19 AM
I liked his aggression in the playoffs, which translated to a lot of trips to the FT line. He certainly could improve his overall scoring efficiency, and the three point shot is the most obvious way to go about doing that, as well as continuing to get to the line more. Among qualified three point shooters (82 3-pointers made pace) he was in the bottom 10 in 3PT%, which isn't great. But at least he hoists fewer than guys like Smoove, Jimmy Butler, Jordan Crawford and the rest of the bad high volume 3 pt shooters.

I won't comment on his defense because I certainly didn't see enough of him last year. My guess is it's uninspiring but not awful...at least that's what it looked like in the playoffs.

How far can "HE" take the Raptors? I don't know, I'm not sure he has huge team-carrying ability on his own, but he and Lowry are a great back court and Johnson/Valanciunas/Pattersons development will determine a lot too. It's a great core, but I don't quite think he is the type of star that can really carry it to true championship contention. But even still, I think they're a balanced team and it's less a matter of him "carrying" them than them just gelling as a really balanced team.

nycericanguy
08-05-2014, 11:24 AM
Sometimes we make the mistake of thinking guys will get better and better just because they are young.

Demar is a good player, but he's not really GREAT at any aspect. His numbers look good, but he also played over 38mpg, and shot just 42% from the field despite most of his attempts coming from 2pt range. And he only shot 30% from 3.

Not saying he can't get better, but don't be fooled by a guy that played a lot of minutes and took a lot of shots. I've seen a lot of TOR fans saying he can be a 25/5/5 guy... those are HOF numbers that only Durant & LBJ put up... unless Demar develops a consistent outside shot, I can't see him getting to another level.

GeekInThePink
08-05-2014, 11:34 AM
Sometimes we make the mistake of thinking guys will get better and better just because they are young.

Demar is a good player, but he's not really GREAT at any aspect. His numbers look good, but he also played over 38mpg, and shot just 42% from the field despite most of his attempts coming from 2pt range. And he only shot 30% from 3.

Not saying he can't get better, but don't be fooled by a guy that played a lot of minutes and took a lot of shots. I've seen a lot of TOR fans saying he can be a 25/5/5 guy... those are HOF numbers that only Durant & LBJ put up... unless Demar develops a consistent outside shot, I can't see him getting to another level.

He averaged 23/4/4 this year and has improved dramatically as a shooter since he's entered the league. I think it's fair to suggest his shooting abilities will only continue to improve as he gets older. I wasn't a huge believer when the Raptors drafted him and never thought he'd be the player he is today, I personally don't think 25/5/5 is out of the question, especially after he basically did that in the playoffs against the Nets and is only 24 years old.

FriedTofuz
08-05-2014, 11:37 AM
Sometimes we make the mistake of thinking guys will get better and better just because they are young.

Demar is a good player, but he's not really GREAT at any aspect. His numbers look good, but he also played over 38mpg, and shot just 42% from the field despite most of his attempts coming from 2pt range. And he only shot 30% from 3.

Not saying he can't get better, but don't be fooled by a guy that played a lot of minutes and took a lot of shots. I've seen a lot of TOR fans saying he can be a 25/5/5 guy... those are HOF numbers that only Durant & LBJ put up... unless Demar develops a consistent outside shot, I can't see him getting to another level.

Derozan isnt going to get better just because he's young, he's going to get better because he has a very good work ethic. I'd even compare his work ethic to a subpar version of someone like Kobe, and we know how hard Kobe works, more than everyone in the league, maybe even on the same Level as MJ. With that being said, Derozan has two obvious holes in his game, Defense and 3pt shooting. Though 3PT shooting has improved to 30%, I think he can and WILl get better in this aspect

THough He shot just 42% from the yield aand logged 38 minutes, so did Harden. Harden averaged 45% from the field and logged 38 minutes as well. Are we still going to say that Derozan is just taking a lot of shots? The reason for derozan's low field goal is also due to his many many trips to the free throw line. He ranked top 3 in the nba, behind Kevin Durant and someone else, likely Lebron james.

I would say that derozan will get better because of his work ethic, and he's not a chucking shots and logging a ton of minutes .

Chronz
08-05-2014, 11:44 AM
Hes our only hope for a dominant SG right now. I really hope he makes it

FriedTofuz
08-05-2014, 11:44 AM
Hes our only hope for a dominant SG right now. I really hope he makes it

what about Harden?

ManRam
08-05-2014, 11:52 AM
THough He shot just 42% from the yield aand logged 38 minutes, so did Harden. Harden averaged 45% from the field and logged 38 minutes as well. Are we still going to say that Derozan is just taking a lot of shots? The reason for derozan's low field goal is also due to his many many trips to the free throw line. He ranked top 3 in the nba, behind Kevin Durant and someone else, likely Lebron james.

Kinda lost me here. The reason his FG% is so low is due to trips to the line? Explain that. I don't follow that logic. Getting to the line is GREAT and helps with overall efficiency, but how is it harming his FG%?

Either way, who cares about FG%? The reason you can even begin to utter DeRozan's name alongside Harden's is because of Harden's far superior three point shooting and slightly superior FT rate and FT%. Thus, Harden's TS% is significantly higher than DeRozan's. The fact is: DeMar isn't super efficient. He's not terribly inefficient, but there's a lot of work to be done to get there. Maybe he will continue to improve because of this work effort, and he has shown strides with his three point shot, but how much better do we think that really can get? What's the ceiling?

And, an FYI: he was 4th in free throws, behind KD, Harden and Love. 6th in attempts behind those 3 + Griffin and Howard.

FriedTofuz
08-05-2014, 11:57 AM
Kinda lost me here. The reason his FG% is so low is due to trips to the line? Explain that. I don't follow that logic. Getting to the line is GREAT and helps with overall efficiency, but how is it harming his FG%?

Either way, who cares about FG%? The reason you can even begin to utter DeRozan's name alongside Harden's is because of Harden's far superior three point shooting and slightly superior FT rate and FT%. Thus, Harden's TS% is significantly higher than DeRozan's. The fact is: DeMar isn't super efficient. He's not terribly inefficient, but there's a lot of work to be done to get there. Maybe he will continue to improve because of this work effort, and he has shown strides with his three point shot, but how much better do we think that really can get? What's the ceiling?

And, an FYI: he was 4th in free throws, behind KD, Harden and Love. 6th in attempts behind those 3 + Griffin and Howard.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but isnt field goal based on all shots taken. so if Derozan got fouled twice, those attempts would count towards his field goal. ANd then he could try to earn his points from the FT line?
So if Derozan made 4/4 shots, and got fouled 2 times, his field goal would be 4/6?
and FT would be (let's say he made both FTs) 4/4?

Also, you're right my mistake. he was 4th in Free throws made?

2-ONE-5
08-05-2014, 12:03 PM
i think we weill se some regression in the stat line. dont thinkhe is good enoguh to carry that team anywhere but they arent deisgned for him to do that anyway.

2-ONE-5
08-05-2014, 12:05 PM
Correct me if i'm wrong, but isnt field goal based on all shots taken. so if Derozan got fouled twice, those attempts would count towards his field goal. ANd then he could try to earn his points from the FT line?
So if Derozan made 4/4 shots, and got fouled 2 times, his field goal would be 4/6?
and FT would be (let's say he made both FTs) 4/4?

Also, you're right my mistake. he was 4th in Free throws made?

no that is not even close to being accurate.

nycericanguy
08-05-2014, 12:07 PM
Derozan isnt going to get better just because he's young, he's going to get better because he has a very good work ethic. I'd even compare his work ethic to a subpar version of someone like Kobe, and we know how hard Kobe works, more than everyone in the league, maybe even on the same Level as MJ. With that being said, Derozan has two obvious holes in his game, Defense and 3pt shooting. Though 3PT shooting has improved to 30%, I think he can and WILl get better in this aspect

THough He shot just 42% from the yield aand logged 38 minutes, so did Harden. Harden averaged 45% from the field and logged 38 minutes as well. Are we still going to say that Derozan is just taking a lot of shots? The reason for derozan's low field goal is also due to his many many trips to the free throw line. He ranked top 3 in the nba, behind Kevin Durant and someone else, likely Lebron james.

I would say that derozan will get better because of his work ethic, and he's not a chucking shots and logging a ton of minutes .

Difference is Harden attempts and makes a ton of 3's. And yet STILL shot a higher % overall.

For a SG or wing player to make less than 1 three per game, and yet still shoot only 42% overall is rare, and quite frankly AWFUL. Derozan should be shooting 50% or at least very close to it considering his lack of 3pt shooting/attempts.

Again he's a nice player, but he's not great at anything. He's been in the league 5 years and hasn't really improved his 3pt shot, so unless that dramatically changes all of a sudden, I think he's kind of plateaued because giving a guy 18 shots a game and 38mpg when he's only shooting 42% isn't the greatest game plan. See Rudy Gay.

ANd I don't get how his FT attempts correlate to a lower FG... it's actually the opposite... more FT's should mean higher FG% because the FG attempts on fouled shots do not count against your FG%.

Ebbs
08-05-2014, 12:07 PM
Lol if he became a better 3 pt shooter he'd become more efficient... Duh :laugh:

Chronz
08-05-2014, 12:09 PM
what about Harden?

We need more than 1, and Harden is only dominant if he brings that same fire hes shown for Team USA on D.

FriedTofuz
08-05-2014, 12:13 PM
Difference is Harden attempts and makes a ton of 3's. And yet STILL shot a higher % overall.

For a SG or wing player to make less than 1 three per game, and yet still shoot only 42% overall is rare, and quite frankly AWFUL. Derozan should be shooting 50% or at least very close to it considering his lack of 3pt shooting/attempts.

Again he's a nice player, but he's not great at anything. He's been in the league 5 years and hasn't really improved his 3pt shot, so unless that dramatically changes all of a sudden, I think he's kind of plateaued because giving a guy 18 shots a game and 38mpg when he's only shooting 42% isn't the greatest game plan. See Rudy Gay.

ANd I don't get how his FT attempts correlate to a lower FG... it's actually the opposite... more FT's should mean higher FG% because the FG attempts on fouled shots do not count against your FG%.

That part I didnt know, Thanks for the clarrification!
I would say derozan had no 3PT shot, 30% is still respectable ( see Dwyane Wade)
He's actually very good at gettting to the free throw line and is one of the better mid-range shooters in the league, are you sure he isnt good at that? Also he isnt a Rudy gay type player as derozan can actually pass. ( 4 ast last season)

nycericanguy
08-05-2014, 12:17 PM
That part I didnt know, Thanks for the clarrification!
I would say derozan had no 3PT shot, 30% is still respectable ( see Dwyane Wade)
He's actually very good at gettting to the free throw line and is one of the better mid-range shooters in the league, are you sure he isnt good at that? Also he isnt a Rudy gay type player as derozan can actually pass. ( 4 ast last season)

yea I would say that's the one thing he borders on "GREAT" at doing...

30% isn't respectable from 3, it's horrible and way below even the league average.

There was an article about how Wade is actually one of the worst 3pt shooters in history... the difference is Wade has always been around 50% from the field because he doesn't attempt or make many 3's like Derozan.

Usually when 20ppg scorer shoot in the low 40's it's because they make and attempt a lot of 3's. Derozan is in the rare category of shooting a low % despite not attempting a lot of 3's. That hasn't changed in 5 years, that's why I think he's peaked. You simply don't want to give a guy 18 shots per game if he's going to shoot 42%... so I don't see him getting that many attempts again unless he finds a 3pt shot in his arsenal or shoots a much higher % like Wade.

Chronz
08-05-2014, 12:17 PM
DD is surprisingly efficient when you consider his low turnover rate and improving FTA/assist marks. The midrange shot might be the least efficient shot (fg% wise) in the NBA, but it can lead to players posting low turnover marks that somewhat offset that disadvantage. He still needs to expand his range but hes already shown more growth in that department than Wade has his in his entire career. Bit by bit, DD has improved his game, this year could be a huge year for him.

Stinkyoutsider
08-05-2014, 01:13 PM
I think he can be a star player. He's made some big improvements to his game skills since he's been in the league. Just a few years ago, I considered him an athletic defensive specialist type of player. Now, he is a very good 2 way player.

mjt20mik
08-05-2014, 01:16 PM
Meh.. His numbers are decent but I don't see much more growth from him. 5 years into the league, he is basically gonna be this player for the rest of his career.

Lack of 3pt shooting, lack of ball handling skills, poor efficiency, and poor defender.

JustinTime
08-05-2014, 01:17 PM
Now that he has value we should trade him to the T-wolves for Wiggins they don't want to rebuild again.

Clippersfan86
08-05-2014, 01:21 PM
I think he's got perennial all star talent if he keeps developing. We won't be a top 5 player in the league carrying a team deep into the playoffs or anything IMO, but more like a top 8-12 player who with the right pieces around him can elevate the Raptors to contender status (which isn't saying much in the east) and challenge the Cavs/Wizards/Bulls in the coming years. As it's been said in this thread that's going to require Val/Ross etc developing.

MonroeFAN
08-05-2014, 01:22 PM
Correct me if i'm wrong, but isnt field goal based on all shots taken. so if Derozan got fouled twice, those attempts would count towards his field goal. ANd then he could try to earn his points from the FT line?
So if Derozan made 4/4 shots, and got fouled 2 times, his field goal would be 4/6?
and FT would be (let's say he made both FTs) 4/4?

Also, you're right my mistake. he was 4th in Free throws made?

oh my god

dalton749
08-05-2014, 01:29 PM
Meh.. His numbers are decent but I don't see much more growth from him. 5 years into the league, he is basically gonna be this player for the rest of his career.

Lack of 3pt shooting, lack of ball handling skills, poor efficiency, and poor defender.

you cant count the guy out anymore
he works harder than anyone in the league

hes a good team defender, raps 9th in def efficiency last year despite 2 2nd years in the starting lineup

this off season he is working on his ball handling and is looking more like he can run an offence

i think he stays around 23 ppg this year but increases his shooting to around 45% with 5 apg and 5 rpg

his biggest contribution this off season though will be his training with ross, who will come in much improved

5ass
08-05-2014, 01:36 PM
derozen is exactly the type of player I wanted next to in Orlando as a 1b option next to Dwight. I see him as a player that will be in the top 5 SG discussion for almost the next decade. I don't ever see him as an all time great. His career will be similar to Joe Johnson's.

MonroeFAN
08-05-2014, 01:41 PM
Care to explain why you feel that way? A guy who can't shoot well would go well with Dwight?

ManRam
08-05-2014, 01:53 PM
Care to explain why you feel that way? A guy who can't shoot well would go well with Dwight?

Orlando had the shooters, what we needed was a guy we could give the ball to and let score. A guy who could attack. I remember how it got to the point that I REALLY wanted Monta Ellis, a guy I detested, just because he could do just that. We crumbled late in games often because we lacked just that. Someone to take pressure off everyone else, even if he was only slightly efficient. Low efficient players can have a positive impact.

I don't quite think JJ and DeMar's games are perfectly similar, but in terms of impact and accolades I think that's a fair comparison. Johnson has made what...like 6 AS Games? Probably a slightly above average PER with comparable efficiency (Joe's a better shooter and probably always will be). Never quite a super star, but certainly an all-star. I think that's DeRozan's upside.

MonroeFAN
08-05-2014, 02:00 PM
That is understandable, and makes sense.

mjt20mik
08-05-2014, 02:00 PM
you cant count the guy out anymore
he works harder than anyone in the league

hes a good team defender, raps 9th in def efficiency last year despite 2 2nd years in the starting lineup

this off season he is working on his ball handling and is looking more like he can run an offence

i think he stays around 23 ppg this year but increases his shooting to around 45% with 5 apg and 5 rpg

his biggest contribution this off season though will be his training with ross, who will come in much improved

Trust me I know. I am a Raptors fan, and have been following very closely the team this offseason. I still don't think at this age he is going to get much better.

5ass
08-05-2014, 02:01 PM
Orlando had the shooters, what we needed was a guy we could give the ball to and let score. A guy who could attack. I remember how it got to the point that I REALLY wanted Monta Ellis, a guy I detested, just because he could do just that. We crumbled late in games often because we lacked just that. Someone to take pressure off everyone else, even if he was only slightly efficient. Low efficient players can have a positive impact.
I don't quite think JJ and DeMar's games are perfectly similar, but in terms of impact and accolades I think that's a fair comparison. Johnson has made what...like 6 AS Games? Probably a slightly above average PER with comparable efficiency (Joe's a better shooter and probably always will be). Never quite a super star, but certainly an all-star. I think that's DeRozan's upside.
Especially on a good defensive team. Plus he can draw fouls and get the bigs in even more foul trouble.
Yeah, I was just comparing career achievements and impact.

JasonJohnHorn
08-05-2014, 03:47 PM
I still think of him as a big fish in a small pond to be honest. And I'm a Raptors fan.

He did get to the line more last year, which is good. That kind of thing helps the team because it put fouls on the opposing team and can force their better interior defenders to the bench early and open things up.

His 2P% dropped last season, which I hate to see in a 4th year player... what most impressed me was the increase in assists... almost doubled his assists with only a slight increase in turnovers, and he had the ball more for iso plays... so that is another reason you'd expect an increase in turnovers.... the fact he pumped up his assists with more iso play and only a minute increase in turnovers was especially impressive.

I am cautiously optimistic about his chances. If he improves that 3pt shot and gets better defensively, he could be an elite SG.

bucketss
08-05-2014, 04:04 PM
I still think of him as a big fish in a small pond to be honest. And I'm a Raptors fan.

He did get to the line more last year, which is good. That kind of thing helps the team because it put fouls on the opposing team and can force their better interior defenders to the bench early and open things up.

His 2P% dropped last season, which I hate to see in a 4th year player... what most impressed me was the increase in assists... almost doubled his assists with only a slight increase in turnovers, and he had the ball more for iso plays... so that is another reason you'd expect an increase in turnovers.... the fact he pumped up his assists with more iso play and only a minute increase in turnovers was especially impressive.

I am cautiously optimistic about his chances. If he improves that 3pt shot and gets better defensively, he could be an elite SG.

his 2 point % went from 46% to 45%, is that really a big deal.

FlashBolt
08-05-2014, 05:19 PM
If he's truly 6"7 and 220, he should be able to post up more. For a SG, he would have a 3 inch advantage and probably 10 lbs over any other SG. Dude needs some easy baskets and should stop settling for a jump shot.

North Yorker
08-05-2014, 06:15 PM
If he's truly 6"7 and 220, he should be able to post up more. For a SG, he would have a 3 inch advantage and probably 10 lbs over any other SG. Dude needs some easy baskets and should stop settling for a jump shot.

He does post up smaller defenders and abuses them down on the block. The problem is that Ross and him are both SGs and DeRozan often draws the better perimeter defender of the two (often the opposing SF).

Chaotic98
08-05-2014, 06:21 PM
If he's truly 6"7 and 220, he should be able to post up more. For a SG, he would have a 3 inch advantage and probably 10 lbs over any other SG. Dude needs some easy baskets and should stop settling for a jump shot.

He's not a great ball handler so he doesn't post much, but uses his quickness to find space rather well.

BHF
08-05-2014, 06:34 PM
What DD needs is better defense and better shot selection, last season he was just terrible at times.

bucketss
08-05-2014, 06:53 PM
If he's truly 6"7 and 220, he should be able to post up more. For a SG, he would have a 3 inch advantage and probably 10 lbs over any other SG. Dude needs some easy baskets and should stop settling for a jump shot.

he has a pretty good post game, he showed off some great moves but the we stopped running plays for him in the post for some reason.

North Yorker
08-05-2014, 06:56 PM
he has a pretty good post game, he showed off some great moves but the we stopped running plays for him in the post for some reason.

He did it more when Gay was here vs opposing SGs. He doesn't post up bigger SFs.

JasonJohnHorn
08-05-2014, 07:05 PM
his 2 point % went from 46% to 45%, is that really a big deal.

And from .500 in his first season.

smith&wesson
08-05-2014, 07:11 PM
Trust me I know. I am a Raptors fan, and have been following very closely the team this offseason. I still don't think at this age he is going to get much better.

he has improved on his game every season since being in the league, what makes you think that trend will stop ?

ManRam
08-05-2014, 07:33 PM
he has improved on his game every season since being in the league, what makes you think that trend will stop ?

Because everyone has a ceiling :shrug:

(also, about improving every year: wasn't he really bad in 2012?)

smith&wesson
08-05-2014, 07:39 PM
Because everyone has a ceiling :shrug:

(also, about improving every year: wasn't he really bad in 2012?)

he added something to his game every off season, and he is still improving. He has a kobe type work ethic and remains a student of the game.. players like that improve even past their prime. they always work on something... He hasnt hit his ceiling yet.

he was injured and played 66 games in 2012... also i dont know about (really bad) the team itself was garbage too so that had something to do with it. not hard for aposing teams to key in on one of the only talented players you have when youre on a lottery team and in your 3rd season.

bucketss
08-05-2014, 07:52 PM
And from .500 in his first season.

well he took only 526 2 point field shots during the whole season his first year and this year he took over 1400. plus he didn't face the same defence while playing alongside bosh. we gotta factor all those things together,

Chaotic98
08-05-2014, 08:25 PM
he added something to his game every off season, and he is still improving. He has a kobe type work ethic and remains a student of the game.. players like that improve even past their prime. they always work on something... He hasnt hit his ceiling yet.

he was injured and played 66 games in 2012... also i dont know about (really bad) the team itself was garbage too so that had something to do with it. not hard for aposing teams to key in on one of the only talented players you have when youre on a lottery team and in your 3rd season.

Work ethic and skill/ability are two different things. He does not have Kobe's skill or ceiling, regardless of how hard he works. He will hit his ceiling pretty soon. That being said he has become a good player. Defense, ball handing and 3pt are his Achilles heal, but he's become a smart player by using his quickness to get to where he needs to be.

2012 he looked very lost, both mentally and physically on the court. He was shooting poorly, turning the ball over and getting beat on defense every possession. It's great he learned from that season.

ManRam
08-05-2014, 08:52 PM
he added something to his game every off season, and he is still improving. He has a kobe type work ethic and remains a student of the game.. players like that improve even past their prime. they always work on something... He hasnt hit his ceiling yet.

he was injured and played 66 games in 2012... also i dont know about (really bad) the team itself was garbage too so that had something to do with it. not hard for aposing teams to key in on one of the only talented players you have when youre on a lottery team and in your 3rd season.

Like Chaotic said, he doesn't have Kobe's skill though. There's a ceiling. He's gonna be 25 and entering his 6th season. He's just about in the statistical prime years. He took a big step forward last year and there certainly is more room for improvement. I guess we just will have to agree to disagree about how much untapped potential there is. I think there's some...but improvement and progress doesn't ever remain exponential. It will plateau eventually...

ManRam
08-05-2014, 09:04 PM
s&w, this might be worth a read...

http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-like-milk/

Players tend to peak at about 25 statistically. The decline is slow until around the age of 30, but most do indeed decline over that span, not continue to improve. The stars certainly learn to fine tune their game over that time, and DeRozan could certainly fall into that, but as a whole, 25 is about when improvement slows. And 25 is exactly how old DeRozan will be.

alexander_37
08-05-2014, 09:16 PM
He's pretty damn underrated. 2nd/3rd best SG in the league IMO depending if you count Dragic as a SG.

Chaotic98
08-05-2014, 09:34 PM
He's pretty damn underrated. 2nd/3rd best SG in the league IMO depending if you count Dragic as a SG.

That might be saying more about the current state of SGs this season than it is about him being underrated. Especially if we need to debate whether Dragic is a SG.

JustinTime
08-06-2014, 06:53 AM
What DD needs is better defense and better shot selection, last season he was just terrible at times.

His shot selection is almost as poor as Rudy Gay's I think Toronto should trade him for a legit SF and let Ross play the 2.

pebloemer
08-06-2014, 08:15 AM
I mentioned this in a thread in the Raptor's forum, but the increase from 4 apg and 4 rpg to 5 and 5 is a significant one. Expecting DeRozan to improve his rebounding numbers when they've remained steady his entire career is a bit of a reach for me. Especially when he has one of the better rebounding PG's in Lowry sharing the backcourt with him for the foreseeable future. His APG took a massive jump from 2.5 to 4 last season. I'd just be happy to see him sustain that. His focus shouldn't be on "25-5-5," it should be in improving his efficiency, ball handling and defence.

BHF
08-06-2014, 08:20 AM
His shot selection is almost as poor as Rudy Gay's I think Toronto should trade him for a legit SF and let Ross play the 2.

They should be they wont.

Necrosis
08-06-2014, 08:38 AM
I liked his aggression in the playoffs, which translated to a lot of trips to the FT line. He certainly could improve his overall scoring efficiency, and the three point shot is the most obvious way to go about doing that, as well as continuing to get to the line more. Among qualified three point shooters (82 3-pointers made pace) he was in the bottom 10 in 3PT%, which isn't great. But at least he hoists fewer than guys like Smoove, Jimmy Butler, Jordan Crawford and the rest of the bad high volume 3 pt shooters.

I won't comment on his defense because I certainly didn't see enough of him last year. My guess is it's uninspiring but not awful...at least that's what it looked like in the playoffs.

How far can "HE" take the Raptors? I don't know, I'm not sure he has huge team-carrying ability on his own, but he and Lowry are a great back court and Johnson/Valanciunas/Pattersons development will determine a lot too. It's a great core, but I don't quite think he is the type of star that can really carry it to true championship contention. But even still, I think they're a balanced team and it's less a matter of him "carrying" them than them just gelling as a really balanced team.

I use to think he would be a borderline stater, he is such a hard worker he will continue to improve each year, he is kobe lite and will approach him if his trajectory continues. He was raw as hell and now has the best mid range game in the league, he couldn't dribble last year, he could this year. His defense saw the most improvment, in isolation he can shut down a two gaurd, his help defense has improved.

I was never a fan but watching him over the years it's not even the same person. He was so passive, so un sure of what to do just two years ago, even last year. He grew up.

I would take him over Harden (Harden is better now), just based on his work ethic and frame (he has way more potential then Harden).

6'7 SG with atheleticism and insane work ethic.

dalton749
08-06-2014, 07:07 PM
trading him would be incredibly stupid
there is no way you ever get equal value back
and he will be better next season, no question
hes not the type to follow this traditional peak crap

FriedTofuz
08-07-2014, 09:04 PM
b

TodWilkinson
08-07-2014, 09:08 PM
He's a good player, I think he's a top 15 player in the NBA. I think he'd be great on the Knicks with Phil Jacksons game plan.

DoMeFavors
08-07-2014, 11:12 PM
Demar can ball but I dont see Raptors repeating what they did last yr. Me personally I think they are very similar to the 2010 Milwakuee Bucks who were great the yr prior then the next yr didnt make playoffs. Most of the players including coach were in contract yrs this past yr. I see Raptors as a 7-8 seed or miss playoffs.

FriedTofuz
08-08-2014, 01:34 AM
Demar can ball but I dont see Raptors repeating what they did last yr. Me personally I think they are very similar to the 2010 Milwakuee Bucks who were great the yr prior then the next yr didnt make playoffs. Most of the players including coach were in contract yrs this past yr. I see Raptors as a 7-8 seed or miss playoffs.

why exactly are they similar to the 2010 playoffs? you have to remember that milwauke wasnt a high seed, Toronto was top 3.

DoMeFavors
08-08-2014, 02:10 AM
why exactly are they similar to the 2010 playoffs? you have to remember that milwauke wasnt a high seed, Toronto was top 3.

Toronto wont the division , they both won around similar amount of wins. Nothing really about Raptors impresses me, no go to superstar, a below average coach.

0nekhmer
08-08-2014, 03:02 AM
Toronto wont the division , they both won around similar amount of wins. Nothing really about Raptors impresses me, no go to superstar, a below average coach.

exactly, they did this without a superstar. They kept their core, and are relying on internal growth of Demar, Terrence Ross, Jonas, Patterson, Vasques. Why should these guys all suddenly become worse?

DoMeFavors
08-08-2014, 03:09 AM
exactly, they did this without a superstar. They kept their core, and are relying on internal growth of Demar, Terrence Ross, Jonas, Patterson, Vasques. Why should these guys all suddenly become worse?

they arent going to become worse, they were never really that good. The playoffs proved that. They overachived last yr. Everyone so high on them like a lot of teams that have success. The 2012 Sixers were supposed to be awesome never were, 2010-2011 bucks were overrated and look how they ended up. You will watch and see.

sharqstealth
08-08-2014, 03:17 AM
He'll be as good as Monta Ellis. Same kind of player.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-08-2014, 03:24 AM
One of the biggest Derozan fans here. He's pretty much reached his ceiling. He'll have the opportunity to be more efficient but he's pretty much what he is already.. The bigger question is if this is a one time occurrence or if he can actually be consistent and post those numbers on a yearly basis.

Mengxing
08-08-2014, 04:05 AM
I think if he became a strong Defender , and better 3PT shooter. Let's see him in the new season

dalton749
08-08-2014, 04:20 AM
they arent going to become worse, they were never really that good. The playoffs proved that. They overachived last yr. Everyone so high on them like a lot of teams that have success. The 2012 Sixers were supposed to be awesome never were, 2010-2011 bucks were overrated and look how they ended up. You will watch and see.

the playoffs proved that they were inexperienced because most of them had never even been there
ross was invisible and valanciunas fell victim to kgs ******** and the refs

but theyre the type of blue collar team that will work their *** off to come back next year much better because theyre all young and hungry

torontosports10
08-08-2014, 04:34 AM
they arent going to become worse, they were never really that good. The playoffs proved that. They overachived last yr. Everyone so high on them like a lot of teams that have success. The 2012 Sixers were supposed to be awesome never were, 2010-2011 bucks were overrated and look how they ended up. You will watch and see.

I guarantee the Raptors will be better than the Nets next year. If you're as confident in your team, let's bet on it. Loser leaves PSD for good. But this time, whoever loses, gives consent to a MOD to block us if they don't go through with it.

DoMeFavors
08-08-2014, 01:03 PM
I guarantee the Raptors will be better than the Nets next year. If you're as confident in your team, let's bet on it. Loser leaves PSD for good. But this time, whoever loses, gives consent to a MOD to block us if they don't go through with it.

You guys are in love with this leave PSD stuff...I dont do that bro. Even if the bet was if LeBron would have more PPG than Tayshaun Prince. I dont do that.
Raptors are a team of role players which will hurt them, teams with role players really never whind up sticking together long. Someone is usually fed up they arent getting touches and not enough leadership or experience. Add Lou to that, it will get worse. Watch for yourself thats all I have to say.

bucketss
08-08-2014, 01:21 PM
they arent going to become worse, they were never really that good. The playoffs proved that. They overachived last yr. Everyone so high on them like a lot of teams that have success. The 2012 Sixers were supposed to be awesome never were, 2010-2011 bucks were overrated and look how they ended up. You will watch and see.

those teams are more comparable to the nets success than toronto. have you taken a look at your roster?

DoMeFavors
08-08-2014, 01:30 PM
those teams are more comparable to the nets success than toronto. have you taken a look at your roster?

Yes, Nets have way better big men when compared to the Raptors. Joe Johnson proved that Demar is nowhere near him in the playoffs, and Joe is an actual go to guy. And you will see what Deron is all about this yr. Plus a guy Raptors fans are familiar with Jarrett Jack, anytime that is your backup PG and a team has to go against that its not a good night for that team. No backup PG wants to go toe to toe with Jack.

bucketss
08-08-2014, 01:42 PM
Yes, Nets have way better big men when compared to the Raptors. Joe Johnson proved that Demar is nowhere near him in the playoffs, and Joe is an actual go to guy. And you will see what Deron is all about this yr. Plus a guy Raptors fans are familiar with Jarrett Jack, anytime that is your backup PG and a team has to go against that its not a good night for that team. No backup PG wants to go toe to toe with Jack.

joe is a beast, but please stop hyping that bum deron, also grevis > jack.

FriedTofuz
08-25-2014, 12:40 AM
EDIT AS FOR AUGUST 25TH:

Demar Made the USA team over Lillard, Parsons and Korver. What are you thoughts?

bucketss
08-25-2014, 12:48 AM
Yes, Nets have way better big men when compared to the Raptors. Joe Johnson proved that Demar is nowhere near him in the playoffs, and Joe is an actual go to guy. And you will see what Deron is all about this yr. Plus a guy Raptors fans are familiar with Jarrett Jack, anytime that is your backup PG and a team has to go against that its not a good night for that team. No backup PG wants to go toe to toe with Jack.

way better big man? is that why they were destroying Kg's old *** in the playoffs.

FriedTofuz
08-25-2014, 12:50 AM
KG averaged like what -5 pts in the playoffs? Plumlee was nervous as well?
I dont see how the nets bigs were good

As for Joe Johnson, I agree with Do me favours, Joe Johnson manhandled the raptors and Joe johnson is clutch. Without him, the nets would've lost very easily. Deron was trash and still will be trash.

BALLER R
08-25-2014, 02:14 AM
Nets beat the raptors in a game 7, lowry getting blocked at the buzzer. I don't see how anyone can say the nets were that much better. For a team with little to no experience Net fans should be concerned with their team because toronto will be better than them. Players improving as well as adding depth. If nets face the raptors this year in the playoffs it won't even be close. Raptors would win in 5

0nekhmer
08-25-2014, 02:30 AM
Raptors took an extremely experienced team to game 7 when 4/5 of their starting 5 have never been in the playoffs prior. If we're talking about being the GM of one of these two teams, i'm sure every GM would take the Raptors 10 times/10. The nets have 1-2 years max window to be relevent in the east before their Owner either shoots himself from going that deep in the luxory with nothing to show for it, or KG, Deron, JJ, Brook Lopez run out of gas and retire/stay injured. You know your team is over when a loyal guy like Pierce leaves.

east fb knicks
08-25-2014, 04:59 AM
im not a nets fan but raps fan do you guys realize the nets best player was hurt im just saying:shrug:

FriedTofuz
08-25-2014, 02:53 PM
im not a nets fan but raps fan do you guys realize the nets best player was hurt im just saying:shrug:

They play worst with lopez though.
They played well with Pierce at the 4 and Livingston was huge for that team. I think Jack is a nice compensation, but I dont think it'll work well with Lopez on that team.

Goose17
08-26-2014, 05:41 AM
I can't wait to see some of the back court match ups out East this year.

Wall/Beal
Walker/Stephenson
Lowry/Derozan

Should be fun.

Sanjay
09-02-2014, 02:59 AM
I think he can potentially win a championship with the Raptors. Them and the Wizards will contest many conference finals in the years to come and depending on what happens with Durant and Westbrook at the Thunder will meet the Warriors in the NBA Finals.

P.S. How did Lillard not make the team!?

Confusious
09-02-2014, 05:08 AM
How Far can he take the Toronto Raptors.
I like his game, but he is no Vince Carter, and he is no Chris Bosh. He will not push his Raptors any further than the other two could. The Raptors are one of the biggest playoff choke artists in league history. In their entire history, the furthest they have ever gone was the conference finals. Granted, they lost to Allen Iverson, but still... that is still pretty ****ing sad. Especially considering they had prime VC, who was an absolute monster.

And no, DeRozan is not even close to being in prime VC's league.

As for DemarDerozan the poster on these forums, I think he needs to stop eating his own feces, and stop worrying about other teams problems and worry about how his team will make the playoffs and get past that elusive first round hump.

deaner
09-02-2014, 07:02 AM
I like his game, but he is no Vince Carter, and he is no Chris Bosh. He will not push his Raptors any further than the other two could. The Raptors are one of the biggest playoff choke artists in league history. In their entire history, the furthest they have ever gone was the conference finals. Granted, they lost to Allen Iverson, but still... that is still pretty ****ing sad. Especially considering they had prime VC, who was an absolute monster.

And no, DeRozan is not even close to being in prime VC's league.

As for DemarDerozan the poster on these forums, I think he needs to stop eating his own feces, and stop worrying about other teams problems and worry about how his team will make the playoffs and get past that elusive first round hump.

That post is the equivalent of your first shirtless selfie at 14. Congrats cavs fans. Don't worry about the future... Even though you overspent to make Lebron happy for two years.

dalton749
09-02-2014, 07:22 AM
i never would have thought he would get anywhere near vince, but hes getting there and is still getting better
the difference is toronto has much better management now and is building a better team around him

sep11ie
09-02-2014, 08:54 AM
EDIT AS FOR AUGUST 25TH:

Demar Made the USA team over Lillard, Parsons and Korver. What are you thoughts?

How Far can he take the Toronto Raptors.
As a player, how far can he go?
He's an extremely hard worker and continues to improve his game.

He averaged 23/4/4 last season.
While averaging 25/5/4 in the playoffs vs the nets losing in 7 games.

Personally I think if he became a better 3PT shooter, and Defender, he'd be a lot better and more efficient.

No offense, but NO ****...

deaner
09-02-2014, 09:06 AM
No offense, but NO ****...

Part of the problem is Toronto has a coach who doesn't care and can't run an offense. If you'd watch what Demar is asked to do on a nightly basis you would understand his low efficiency. He is still growing... Toronto doesn't need Kobe performances out of him. With that back court the team just needs organic growth and a bit more time to gel. Then add KD. : )

You should also factor in how many minutes Demar has played in the last 3-4 years. He is asked for quantity. I don't agree with that philosophy... But that's his history.

Sly Guy
09-02-2014, 09:07 AM
That post is the equivalent of your first shirtless selfie at 14. Congrats cavs fans. Don't worry about the future... Even though you overspent to make Lebron happy for two years.

lol.....

It's like a changing of the guard in the NBA forum.

BALLER R
09-02-2014, 10:03 AM
When it's all said and done Demar isn't going to be the best player on the Raptors. I still believe Ross will be better and so will Jonas. The mistake Casey is making is that he runs plays through Demar and Lowry far too often. In the game that Ross scored 51 Demar got injured I'm almost 100% certain that if he didn't then Ross wouldn't of had that opportunity.

Knicks Boogie
09-02-2014, 10:31 AM
Over rated

Knicks Boogie
09-02-2014, 10:34 AM
Wall/Beal
Walker/Stephenson
Lowry/Derozan

Jr/Melo ..... better than any of them!

lmao

EastCoastRaptor
09-02-2014, 11:06 AM
Wall/Beal
Walker/Stephenson
Lowry/Derozan

Jr/Melo ..... better than any of them!

lmao

I understand your homerism forces you to think the Knicks are being disrespected but you should read peoples post before replying. The op said these "back-court" tandems will be fun to watch. Now tell me is your man-crush Melo a point guard or shooting guard? Maybe look up what back-court means before acting disrespected.

lmao

Confusious
09-02-2014, 12:02 PM
That post is the equivalent of your first shirtless selfie at 14. Congrats cavs fans. Don't worry about the future... Even though you overspent to make Lebron happy for two years.
What a stupid response. You were probably better off not responding if you're incapable of a logical retort.
And you do realize LeBron is leaving in one year right? Two years? Man, you really are giving him and this organization a lot of credit. :rolleyes:

deaner
09-02-2014, 12:15 PM
What a stupid response. You were probably better off not responding if you're incapable of a logical retort.
And you do realize LeBron is leaving in one year right? Two years? Man, you really are giving him and this organization a lot of credit. :rolleyes:

Tops it off with a duck face. Well done.

Why exactly should I give the org credit? They are very good at ping pong balls??

Confusious
09-02-2014, 12:19 PM
Tops it off with a duck face. Well done.

Why exactly should I give the org credit?
You must be an avid admirer of fan fiction. It explains an awful lot. Please do write in your diary about PSD users and their non-existing duck face selfies. I'm sure it'll make you feel a lot better about your inferior team.

I'm not even going to answer such an underwhelming and ridiculous question. If you don't realize what kind of summer Gilbert and Griffin had, then what kind of hope would I have explaining it to you? Some people can't understand things. It's a waste of time and mental capacity. You can continue drawing stick figure people with your own feces.

smith&wesson
09-02-2014, 12:26 PM
You must be an avid admirer of fan fiction. It explains an awful lot. Please do write in your diary about PSD users and their non-existing duck face selfies. I'm sure it'll make you feel a lot better about your inferior team.

I'm not even going to answer such an underwhelming and ridiculous question. If you don't realize what kind of summer Gilbert and Griffin had, then what kind of hope would I have explaining it to you? Some people can't understand things. It's a waste of time and mental capacity. You can continue drawing stick figure people with your own feces.

Gilbert & Griffen had very little to do with the Cavs off season. In fact Gilbert and his letter probably made it harder for LeBron to come back, it def didn't help the situation.

Lebron wanted to go home and Love was interested in playing along side LBJ... the cavs front office lucked out.

I don't even know why that's a bad thing ? I just don't understand the logic that the front office had anything to do with LeBrons decision.

smith&wesson
09-02-2014, 12:32 PM
as for Demar Derozan... I see him as a perennial allstar... wont ever be a superstar but he has a great work ethic and is somewhat of an iron man so he will have longevity in this league...

top 5 sg, maybe even top 3.

Pfeifer
09-02-2014, 12:34 PM
You must be an avid admirer of fan fiction. It explains an awful lot. Please do write in your diary about PSD users and their non-existing duck face selfies. I'm sure it'll make you feel a lot better about your inferior team.

I'm not even going to answer such an underwhelming and ridiculous question. If you don't realize what kind of summer Gilbert and Griffin had, then what kind of hope would I have explaining it to you? Some people can't understand things. It's a waste of time and mental capacity. You can continue drawing stick figure people with your own feces.

For somebody attacking another posters intelligence you sure showed yours. Going straight to feces and personal attacks really supports your argument. Maybe before spouting off you should get you facts straight. The raptors never made it to the conference finals and how can you be a playoff choke artist when you've only gotten there a couple of times with totally seperate groups of players. Take a step back a realize that the Cavs haven't won anything yet and your team just picked 1st in the draft because they have sucked.

Demar is becoming a really solid all around player. Though his defence will never be elite his work ethic will make him serviceable in any aspect of dificiency. Good jump shot and improving from 3. Gets to the line a ton. Still tons of time to improve but I worry about the knees for such an athletic kid.

smith&wesson
09-02-2014, 12:37 PM
For somebody attacking another posters intelligence you sure showed yours. Going straight to feces and personal attacks really supports your argument. Maybe before spouting off you should get you facts straight. The raptors never made it to the conference finals and how can you be a playoff choke artist when you've only gotten there a couple of times with totally seperate groups of players. Take a step back a realize that the Cavs haven't won anything yet and your team just picked 1st in the draft because they have sucked.

Demar is becoming a really solid all around player. Though his defence will never be elite his work ethic will make him serviceable in any aspect of dificiency. Good jump shot and improving from 3. Gets to the line a ton. Still tons of time to improve but I worry about the knees for such an athletic kid.

good post, the one good thing about Derozan is that he hardly ever misses any games due to injury. he is somewhat of an iron man.