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force_within
08-01-2014, 11:16 PM
- Stephenson's departure
- Paul George's ugly leg injury

plus

- Hibbert's trash performance from last year's playoffs that could be carried this coming season
- Hill's inconsistency

Where do you think the Pacers will end up? Will they even make the playoffs next season? Bad break for them and I really hope for PG's speedy recovery. Even if he'll miss the entire first half of the season and could come back after the all-star break, he'll not eventually get back his true form. Big loss, without him for the Pacers, the East's landscape would have a significant change.

goingfor28
08-01-2014, 11:21 PM
Probably will stay in Indiana

TurboDEEZsmoke
08-01-2014, 11:22 PM
Your sick for making a thread this quick. Seriously man nothing better to do? Lol

kdspurman
08-01-2014, 11:23 PM
I don't think anyone can predict anything until we know the extent of his injury.

Avenged
08-01-2014, 11:24 PM
....

ChI_ShIzzLe
08-01-2014, 11:36 PM
C'mon dude at least wait till the official prognosis is released after the surgery.

Bruno
08-01-2014, 11:39 PM
I think they should package George Hill with Davis West for young talent right now. they should try to get a good lottery pick. and use it to come back with a contender around a slightly older George, who will have to adapt his game.

Ty Fast
08-01-2014, 11:40 PM
they could miss the playoffs

koreancabbage
08-01-2014, 11:51 PM
C'mon dude at least wait till the official prognosis is released after the surgery.

thats definitely a broken leg. no prognosis needed..

ChI_ShIzzLe
08-02-2014, 01:25 AM
thats definitely a broken leg. no prognosis needed..

I know but I meant the extent of the break.

SILVER SEAVER
08-02-2014, 01:55 AM
So it's basically Jekyll and Hyde Hibbert, West, Hill, Scola and what else? If Lakers fans they had a tough '13-'14 season they should not feel as bad losing 55 games. This is catastrophic for them for a team that had a small window to capitalize on. Last season was theirs for the taking and they still couldn't get past Miami.

SILVER SEAVER
08-02-2014, 01:58 AM
Your sick for making a thread this quick. Seriously man nothing better to do? Lol

And yet you're on here reading. Just giving you a hard time man.

ChI_ShIzzLe
08-02-2014, 02:04 AM
So it's basically Jekyll and Hyde Hibbert, West, Hill, Scola and what else? If Lakers fans they had a tough '13-'14 season they should not feel as bad losing 55 games. This is catastrophic for them for a team that had a small window to capitalize on. Last season was theirs for the taking and they still couldn't get past Miami.
Yup. And now with a Cavs team that's gonna get better every season from here on out, a much better and deeper Bulls team and the emergence of the Wizards, don't see how they compete for a EC title with so much uncertainty now.

SILVER SEAVER
08-02-2014, 02:12 AM
Yup. And now with a Cavs team that's gonna get better every season from here on out, a much better and deeper Bulls team and the emergence of the Wizards, don't see how they compete for a EC title with so much uncertainty now.

Like I said in the George injury thread, even though George and the Pacers are the Bulls division rival it sucks seeing them lose Stephenson the way they did and see George go down in any fashion let alone the one he went down in.

TheNumber37
08-02-2014, 02:38 AM
Pacers are NOT making the playoffs. Not if you're 3 best players are:

David West
George Hill
And Hibbert...in that order.
C'mon Copeland nows your chance to showcase your 20ppg scoring per 48

Chronz
08-02-2014, 02:42 AM
I think its clear what they should do, bottom out and rebuild within years, hopefully around PG.

Sucks that they patiently built a contender but those are the breaks, really hurts to lose Lance now. Shop Hibbert and hope for some assets.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 05:00 AM
They're still in the East...

monty77
08-02-2014, 05:35 AM
Maybe is too soon to speak about this subject, but if I were Pacers fan, I would take some time in order to analyze the situation before taking some crucial decisions. It was supposed to be one important year for Pacers, because they have been the second best team in the east the last two seasons, and after Lebron departure from Miami to Cavs, they were considered as favorite team in the East.

If Paul George is sidelined for more than 6 months, my answer is "yes, let's trade West, Scola and Hill and try to get some young assets". However, if George get back just after allstar break, there is no reason to rush. Pacers without George could reach 45-50% victories without any trouble, this in the east means playoffs. There are new team as Pistons and Cavs which could improve East level next year, and there are other good teams like Bulls, Miami, Toronto, Nets, Bobcats and Wizards, but anything else. I don't trust in Knicks next year.

So, if they reach 8th spot, without any favorite team in the East so far, with 80% George in the roster, there is no reason to believe they are not going to fight properly against number 1 in the East, especially taking into account that during this season, players like Hibbert and West would improve his level because there will be less leaders in the team after Stephenson departure.

So I think we should speak about Pacers chances after knowing how many time PG injuries will last. As a Bulls fan I passed through a similar situation with Rose the first year. We hope he played in Playoffs but he finally didn't. Now it seems he is in good shape, and we have players like Noah and Butler who plays better than ever. They couldn't reach this level without DR's injury. You never know...

xxplayerxx23
08-02-2014, 08:04 AM
They're still in the East...u

Meh, west Hibbert hill with not much else doubt they make it

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-02-2014, 08:06 AM
Do like what the Spurs did when David Robinson got injured. Tank!

Backstabber
08-02-2014, 08:08 AM
Do like what the Spurs did when David Robinson got injured. Tank!

Worked out perfectly for the Spurs. The might have to unload Hibbert for either cap space in 2015 or young talent.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 08:30 AM
BLOW UP THE ROSTER AND REBUILD!! ITS OVER!! AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!


...or whatever.

ldawg
08-02-2014, 10:32 AM
They are done they will miss two very important pieces. They can win close to half their games in the east still but won't be nearly as good. I say you move Roy rebuild. I think you write this season off get a good pick. Trade Roy for another.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 10:43 AM
I think you write this season off get a good pick. Trade Roy for another.

Who the hell is trading a "good" first round pick for Roy Hibbert?

MonroeFAN
08-02-2014, 11:42 AM
Who is trading for Roy Hibbert period?

NYSpirit1
08-02-2014, 11:50 AM
they could miss the playoffs

Could? They're going to be one of the worst teams in the league with him out and Stephensen gone.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 11:59 AM
Could? They're going to be one of the worst teams in the league with him out and Stephensen gone.

LOL... what?


George Hill/C.J Watson
C.J Miles/Rodney Stuckey
Chris Copeland/???
David West/Luis Scola
Roy Hibbert/Ian Mahinmi

That team can stay in a low playoff position in the East if they keep buying into their coach.

East is awful.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 12:04 PM
If they have cap space Indiana should make a run at Marion, even on a one year or two year thing.

Hill - Miles - Marion - West - Hibbert

North Yorker
08-02-2014, 12:06 PM
LOL... what?


George Hill/C.J Watson
C.J Miles/Rodney Stuckey
Chris Copeland/???
David West/Luis Scola
Roy Hibbert/Ian Mahinmi

That team can stay in a low playoff position in the East if they keep buying into their coach.

East is awful.

That team is terrible, get real.

2-ONE-5
08-02-2014, 12:12 PM
no longer a playoff team but it could be a blessing in disguise for them. Hill needs to be moved regardless and they have some vets that contenders will be interesrted in. find some extra picks, get some young guys in deals, and do a mini rebuild for a season or two around PG when he gets back.

2-ONE-5
08-02-2014, 12:17 PM
LOL... what?


George Hill/C.J Watson
C.J Miles/Rodney Stuckey
Chris Copeland/???
David West/Luis Scola
Roy Hibbert/Ian Mahinmi

That team can stay in a low playoff position in the East if they keep buying into their coach.

East is awful.

the Eastisnt awful and that team is worse then the Knicks

xxplayerxx23
08-02-2014, 12:18 PM
LOL... what?


George Hill/C.J Watson
C.J Miles/Rodney Stuckey
Chris Copeland/???
David West/Luis Scola
Roy Hibbert/Ian Mahinmi

That team can stay in a low playoff position in the East if they keep buying into their coach.

East is awful.

This a joke right? That team as is might win 30 games tops.

xxplayerxx23
08-02-2014, 12:19 PM
the Eastisnt awful and that team is worse then the Knicks

Well Knicks will be the 6 seed so you are correct.

Shammyguy3
08-02-2014, 12:20 PM
LOL... what?


George Hill/C.J Watson
C.J Miles/Rodney Stuckey
Chris Copeland/???
David West/Luis Scola
Roy Hibbert/Ian Mahinmi

That team can stay in a low playoff position in the East if they keep buying into their coach.

East is awful.

The East isn't awful anymore. I'd take
CHI, CLE, TOR, WAS, CHA, MIA, ATL, and BRK over this Pacers team easily.

The Pacers were a great defensive team last season. Losing George and Stephenson on the perimeter is a major blow defensively. I expect them to drop out of the top-10 best defensive teams this year. That's before getting to what they'll be missing offensively. Last season, the Pacers were 23rd in ORtg. Now, remove their leading scorer and their 2b scorer who combined had a 47.7usg%.

You seriously don't think that a team that already struggled to score mightily won't become one of the worst teams in the league offensively without both Paul George and Lance Stephenson?

I think they'll be lucky to win 30 games honestly. That's how much Paul George means to that team, especially with Stephenson's departure.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 12:34 PM
The East isn't awful anymore? Oh I'm sorry I wasn't aware the season had started already.

The only teams that are good are the same teams that were good last year. Just some of them have improved. The only garbage team to improve was Cleveland. The other garbage teams are still garbage.

That roster could win 37-38 games in the East and make the playoffs.

The top 6-7 teams from last year have improved. The majority are still garbage.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 12:34 PM
And this is all assuming that Hibbert continues to suck and George misses the entire season.

Shammyguy3
08-02-2014, 12:35 PM
The East isn't awful anymore? Oh I'm sorry I wasn't aware the season had started already.

The only teams that are good are the same teams that were good last year. Just some of them have improved. The only garbage team to improve was Cleveland. The other garbage teams are still garbage.

That roster could win 37-38 games in the East and make the playoffs.

The top 6-7 teams from last year have improved. The majority are still garbage.

Would you take the Pacers over any of the other teams that made the playoffs last year + Cleveland? I sure as hell would not. Doesn't matter if you think the East is still garbage if you answer "No" to that question anyway.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 12:35 PM
That team is terrible, get real.

It's terrible. Fortunately for them they play in a terrible conference.

2-ONE-5
08-02-2014, 12:36 PM
Well Knicks will be the 6 seed so you are correct.

lol 6 seed, thats cute. keep dreaming. they might sneak into 8th now with Indy out

but i dont care im not gonna argue about it and let knicks fans hi jack another thread and make it about their team

Goose17
08-02-2014, 12:37 PM
Would you take the Pacers over any of the other teams that made the playoffs last year + Cleveland? I sure as hell would not. Doesn't matter if you think the East is still garbage if you answer "No" to that question anyway.

No. I wouldn't.

I would take them over all the teams that missed the playoffs though.

abe_froman
08-02-2014, 12:37 PM
they have no scoring now

if lucky, they can get the 8th seed .but they prob wont make the playoffs

Goose17
08-02-2014, 12:40 PM
they have no scoring now

if lucky, they can get the 8th seed .but they prob wont make the playoffs

West can score in the post quite well. Stuckey is literally all about getting buckets.

They'll have to take on a more team oriented offense that's for sure. If they can stay a high caliber defensive team that will get them wins.

TheNumber37
08-02-2014, 12:40 PM
They need to rebuild.

Start by raising Hibbert's value and moving him, hopefully you can convince someone to give you a coouple draft picks.

They need to find their way to Bledsoe

Goose17
08-02-2014, 12:41 PM
And why are the Knick suddenly a sixth seed? Calderón? Efficient and a huge upgrade but he's not going to bring them that many extra wins. Not with Chandler gone.

Phil Jackson and the triangle?

What's the reasoning?

TheNumber37
08-02-2014, 12:43 PM
West can score in the post quite well. Stuckey is literally all about getting buckets.

They'll have to take on a more team oriented offense that's for sure. If they can stay a high caliber defensive team that will get them wins.

Hill: 15ppg
Stuckey: 15ppg
Copeland/Miles? = 15ppg
West: 18ppg
Hibbert: 10ppg

That's 73 points, that's not gonna win you a basketball game

Goose17
08-02-2014, 12:49 PM
Hill: 15ppg
Stuckey: 15ppg
Copeland/Miles? = 15ppg
West: 18ppg
Hibbert: 10ppg

That's 73 points, that's not gonna win you a basketball game

That's five players. And they'll all get more touches with George out and Lance gone.

Defense will win them games, like I said.

They'll need a more team oriented offense though.

North Yorker
08-02-2014, 12:56 PM
It's terrible. Fortunately for them they play in a terrible conference.

Lol you're just trolling now, basically all of your posts end with "the east is awful".

We get it, you're a bitter Western Conference fan. Doesn't change the fact that Indy is gonna be a lotto team this season.

KnicksYanks
08-02-2014, 01:03 PM
(null)
Chandler sucked last year and is very overrated . Calderon fits the triangle very well. As a knicks fan I can tell u that they lost a good 10 games cause of point guard being terrible

Goose17
08-02-2014, 01:56 PM
Lol you're just trolling now, basically all of your posts end with "the east is awful".

We get it, you're a bitter Western Conference fan. Doesn't change the fact that Indy is gonna be a lotto team this season.

Nah, I'm just stating facts. And why would I be bitter? The Western conference is vastly superior, there's nothing to be bitter about.

Regardless, I'm a basketball fan, I appreciate good basketball regardless of what country or league it's in never mind what conference.

Fact is, East sucks.


Chandler sucked last year and is very overrated . Calderon fits the triangle very well. As a knicks fan I can tell u that they lost a good 10 games cause of point guard being terrible


Chandler might be overrated but he's still a solid defender.

Calderon is a huge upgrade for you, Felton is/was garbage. I really like Calderon, the thing is he's not going to put up huge numbers for you, he's incredibly efficient though.

I'm not convinced that's enough to merit you guys climbing to the sixth seed though, sorry. You still have Bargnani as your back up PF and Smith as your back up SG.

LOL... I just realised, Calderon, Smith, Melo and Bargnani could all be on the court at the same time... jesus christ that's going to be awful defensively.

KnickaBocka.44
08-02-2014, 02:02 PM
That's five players. And they'll all get more touches with George out and Lance gone.

Defense will win them games, like I said.

They'll need a more team oriented offense though.

Copeland and Stuckey don't play D.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 02:12 PM
Copeland and Stuckey don't play D.

Stuckey certainly doesn't. But that's okay. Tony Parker doesn't play great defense, that didn't stop San Antonio being a top defensive team last season. In fact, quite a few of teams in the top 10 defensively had weak links (especially off the bench)

1. Indiana (?)
2. Chicago (Boozer)
3. San Antonio (Parker)
4. Golden State (Lee)
5. Charlotte
6. Washington
7. OKC (Perkins)
8. Memphis
9. Toronto (DeRozan)
10. LAC (Crawford)


See what I mean? One bad defender does not make a bad defensive team.

KnickaBocka.44
08-02-2014, 02:15 PM
Stuckey certainly doesn't. But that's okay. Tony Parker doesn't play great defense, that didn't stop San Antonio being a top defensive team last season. In fact, quite a few of teams in the top 10 defensively had weak links (especially off the bench)

1. Indiana (?)
2. Chicago (Boozer)
3. San Antonio (Parker)
4. Golden State (Lee)
5. Charlotte
6. Washington
7. OKC (Perkins)
8. Memphis
9. Toronto (DeRozan)
10. LAC (Crawford)


See what I mean? One bad defender does not make a bad defensive team.

You can't be serious with this ****. You just suggested that as a starting lineup.

mbsalame123
08-02-2014, 02:16 PM
Before the Paul George injury there were already question marks pertaining to the pacers future after they lost lance stephenson. Now they replaced him with rodney stuckey who in my opinion is a great fit on offense as he can easily score 20 points a game but on defense, he can't; he is no where near stephenson on defense. Now Paul George can't be replaced. He was easily a top 10 player last year and at times looked like the best player after lebron james and kevin durant. It will be hard for the pacers to bounce back from that loss considering they already had chemistry problems in the second half of the season last year plus they have already been rumored to be shopping roy hibbert even before stephenson left and george was hurt so I expect the Pacers to play it out right now and see how the season starts and then they trade away their players and tank in order to get a good draft pick kind of like the spurs in 1999 when david robinson went down, look at how that turned out with tim duncan being drafted the next year and a championship being brought in right after.

I expect the Pacers to trade away at least George Hill, Luis Scola and maybe Roy Hibbert to get another lottery pick so that way they have 2 for next year, then play out the season and rebuild in a year or 2 to become a championship once again.

They will get a injured player exception which is worth 1 year mid-level exception money so I can expect someone like a Shawn Marion, Michael Beasley or someone else get signed to replace George for the time being but expect major changes to happen in Indiana and with the East now even more wide open expect a possible East team to make a move for their players so that way they can compete, lol.

Maybe the Knicks and Pacers can work out a deal if you think about it. Getting Amare Stoudamire and Andrea Bargnani, which are huge expiring contracts along with Iman Shumpert for Roy Hibbert and someone else like Luis Scola or even David West would help the Pacers out as they get a ton of cap space for next year to go after superstars like Lamarcus Aldridge or Rajon Rondo and they get a nice young guard in Shumpert who would fit well.

The knicks get Hibbert and possibly West that can help make the Knicks title contenders especially with the triangle offense, they would be perfect fits.

But this is all speculation and we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

xxplayerxx23
08-02-2014, 02:18 PM
lol 6 seed, thats cute. keep dreaming. they might sneak into 8th now with Indy out

but i dont care im not gonna argue about it and let knicks fans hi jack another thread and make it about their team


Go ahead put it in your sig. At least 6th seed.

xxplayerxx23
08-02-2014, 02:20 PM
East isn't awful, Hibbert would have to do what he did in the playoffs two years ago all year to have a shot at playoffs

lamzoka
08-02-2014, 02:22 PM
I can see chris copeland winning "most improve player"

That boy knows how to score. believe that

Dade County
08-02-2014, 02:24 PM
I see a fire sale in a couple of months.

GeekInThePink
08-02-2014, 02:33 PM
If Paul George misses the entire year (which is seemingly likely) there's no chance Indiana is going to be a playoff team. The current roster lacks ball movement, scoring and rebounding. I understand Frank Vogel is a very talented coach but nobody on that roster can score except David West and I can't see him averaging more then 18 per game at most. Who starts at the three now? Copeland? Hell who starts at the two? CJ Miles/Rodney Stuckey? George Hill is an undersized two and is limited as a facilitator which is why losing Lance (and for various other reasons) hurt.

Best case: Fringe playoff team
Worst case: Bottom of the lottery

GeekInThePink
08-02-2014, 02:36 PM
That's five players. And they'll all get more touches with George out and Lance gone.

Defense will win them games, like I said.

They'll need a more team oriented offense though.

You do realize they arguably lost their two best offensive and defensive players.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 02:42 PM
You do realize they arguably lost their two best offensive and defensive players.

Personally I think Lance is overrated.

But yeah. I do realise that. So I don't think they will be the top seed like they were last year.

You realise they are playing in the East, right?

They can make the 8th seed with that roster out East.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 02:43 PM
You can't be serious with this ****. You just suggested that as a starting lineup.

Suggested what? I said Stuckey would come off the bench.

GeekInThePink
08-02-2014, 02:50 PM
Personally I think Lance is overrated.

But yeah. I do realise that. So I don't think they will be the top seed like they were last year.

You realise they are playing in the East, right?

They can make the 8th seed with that roster out East.

You are delusional and I'm wasting my time arguing with you.

nysportsfan23
08-02-2014, 02:59 PM
Since we're already discussing pacer roster moves which is inappropriate IMO- stat and shumpert for west and hibbert. Indy starts rebuild by tanking, clears salary, gambles on shumpert. Knicks balance roster, increase near term chances, gamble on hibbert finding his game.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 03:12 PM
You are delusional and I'm wasting my time arguing with you.

You are foolish and I am wasting my time proving you wrong.

MELO 15
08-02-2014, 03:17 PM
And why are the Knick suddenly a sixth seed? Calderón? Efficient and a huge upgrade but he's not going to bring them that many extra wins. Not with Chandler gone.

Phil Jackson and the triangle?

What's the reasoning?

The coach, the system and no gaymon fatlon, amare is playing in a contract year, and u know what they say about guys in a contract year? Amare is gonna play his butt off to get that check and once he does he'll get injured again on "ANOTHER TEAM " this Knicks team is going to surprise a lot of people except Knicks fans and those who really know basketball.

KnicksYanks
08-02-2014, 03:20 PM
Lol you're just trolling now, basically all of your posts end with "the east is awful".

We get it, you're a bitter Western Conference fan. Doesn't change the fact that Indy is gonna be a lotto team this season.

Nah, I'm just stating facts. And why would I be bitter? The Western conference is vastly superior, there's nothing to be bitter about.

Regardless, I'm a basketball fan, I appreciate good basketball regardless of what country or league it's in never mind what conference.

Fact is, East sucks.


Chandler sucked last year and is very overrated . Calderon fits the triangle very well. As a knicks fan I can tell u that they lost a good 10 games cause of point guard being terrible


Chandler might be overrated but he's still a solid defender.

Calderon is a huge upgrade for you, Felton is/was garbage. I really like Calderon, the thing is he's not going to put up huge numbers for you, he's incredibly efficient though.

I'm not convinced that's enough to merit you guys climbing to the sixth seed though, sorry. You still have Bargnani as your back up PF and Smith as your back up SG.

LOL... I just realised, Calderon, Smith, Melo and Bargnani could all be on the court at the same time... jesus christ that's going to be awful defensively.
Phil knows what he's doing I doubt we see that lineup out there

Goose17
08-02-2014, 03:22 PM
The coach, the system and no gaymon fatlon, amare is playing in a contract year, and u know what they say about guys in a contract year? Amare is gonna play his butt off to get that check and once he does he'll get injured again on "ANOTHER TEAM " this Knicks team is going to surprise a lot of people except Knicks fans and those who really know basketball.

Knick fans told me the same thing this time last year. I told them they wouldn't make it into the playoffs.

We both know how that turned out.

Sorry but I'll believe it when I see it. Playoffs? Maybe. Sixth seed? LOL... no.

2-ONE-5
08-02-2014, 03:25 PM
You are foolish and I am wasting my time proving you wrong.

u saying teh east sucks isnt proving anyone wrong.

GeekInThePink
08-02-2014, 03:25 PM
You are foolish and I am wasting my time proving you wrong.

Where have you proved me wrong? You said you don't like Lance Stephenson as much as most people do and that they'll make the playoffs cause its the "east".

Lets just ignore that Cleveland, Miami, Toronto, Washington, Brooklyn, Chicago, Charlotte and Atlanta have far superior rosters and the fact other teams are improving in the East.

Lets ignore Paul George injury and Lance Stephenson leaving.

You're totally right.

MELO 15
08-02-2014, 03:28 PM
Knick fans told me the same thing this time last year. I told them they wouldn't make it into the playoffs.

We both know how that turned out.

Sorry but I'll believe it when I see it. Playoffs? Maybe. Sixth seed? LOL... no.

U probably were one of the people that agreed with the media in 2012-13 when nobody had the Knicks in the playoffs as well and felt salty when finding out we finished with the 2nd best record in the east!

Goose17
08-02-2014, 03:30 PM
U probably were one of the people that agreed with the media in 2012-13 when nobody had the Knicks in the playoffs as well and felt salty when finding out we finished with the 2nd best record in the east!

Nah I had you guys at 8th lol. Sure as hell didn't see you climbing that high though, fair point.

Wait and see I suppose.

MELO 15
08-02-2014, 03:38 PM
Nah I had you guys at 8th lol. Sure as hell didn't see you climbing that high though, fair point.

Wait and see I suppose.

Thank u! That's all us Knicks fans want, a chance to prove what we can do!

Shammyguy3
08-02-2014, 04:21 PM
No. I wouldn't.

I would take them over all the teams that missed the playoffs though.

Okay, so if you wouldn't take the Pacers over the 7 other eastern conference playoff teams from last year + CLE... then doesn't that mean that the Pacers miss the playoffs? :eyebrow:


West can score in the post quite well. Stuckey is literally all about getting buckets.

They'll have to take on a more team oriented offense that's for sure. If they can stay a high caliber defensive team that will get them wins.

West isn't exactly a post player. And if you have him on the low block, with Hibbert on the floor there's not really that much space for him to operate. I mean, if Paul George is such a fantastic offensive player (which he is), and if Lance Stephenson was above average efficiency wise last year, and David West scores in the post quite well (meaning above average if not good), then how in the world was this team not even in the top-20 in ORtg this past season?

I mean, I really want an explanation.

And Stuckey's all about getting buckets, that's hilarious. One of the more inefficient basketball players you could find at his position.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 04:23 PM
Okay, so if you wouldn't take the Pacers over the 7 other eastern conference playoff teams from last year + CLE... then doesn't that mean that the Pacers miss the playoffs? :eyebrow:



West isn't exactly a post player. And if you have him on the low block, with Hibbert on the floor there's not really that much space for him to operate. I mean, if Paul George is such a fantastic offensive player (which he is), and if Lance Stephenson was above average efficiency wise last year, and David West scores in the post quite well (meaning above average if not good), then how in the world was this team not even in the top-20 in ORtg this past season?

I mean, I really want an explanation.

And Stuckey's all about getting buckets, that's hilarious. One of the more inefficient basketball players you could find at his position.

Never said Stuckey was efficient. Said he was all about getting buckets. Just like Crawford, Ellis etc. Don't need to be efficient to be getting buckets.

0nekhmer
08-02-2014, 04:25 PM
Losing two of your main core guys would destroy any and every team in the NBA unless you had a really good coach and system. If my raptors lost kyle and demar, I'd be crying. Sucks for pacers, but getting assets for any bad contract is a must now

B'sCeltsPatsSox
08-02-2014, 04:34 PM
I feel like people are totally reaching on them "barely winning 30 games". I feel like they'll still be in the playoff hunt and if anyone can get this team to overachieve, it's Vogel.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 04:36 PM
I feel like people are totally reaching on them "barely winning 30 games". I feel like they'll still be in the playoff hunt and if anyone can get this team to overachieve, it's Vogel.

Thank you. Nice to see not everyone is having this knee jerk reaction.

2-ONE-5
08-02-2014, 04:49 PM
i would but them in the 35-40 range at best without PG

Goose17
08-02-2014, 04:57 PM
i would but them in the 35-40 range at best without PG

You don't think 40 wins is enough for an 8th seed?

HouRealCoach
08-02-2014, 05:01 PM
Hibbert's trash performance in "last year's" playoff? You mean the ENTIRE last year? LOL Dude was horrible, he was only good in that ONE series against the Heat

2-ONE-5
08-02-2014, 05:03 PM
You don't think 40 wins is enough for an 8th seed?

i dobut they got to 40 and no it wont be enough. i expect the east to have 8 teams over .500

Bruno
08-02-2014, 05:06 PM
trading for Jeff Green, a piece boston will practically give away seems like a good idea for Indy. Green is off the books by the time George makes a full recovery, and his salary is only a few million above what insurance is covering should george miss the whole year. green and funny enough evan turner would be two wings who they could get without giving up a lot.

or they could just blow it up and shop Hibert, West with Hill and tank for Okafor.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 05:07 PM
i dobut they got to 40 and no it wont be enough. i expect the east to have 8 teams over .500

LOL.

You have more faith in that conference than I do.

37/38 games will be enough for them to get the 8th seed IMO.

Bruno
08-02-2014, 05:08 PM
they should work out michael beasley.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
08-02-2014, 05:09 PM
i would but them in the 35-40 range at best without PG

That's a reasonable range. Maybe they get to .500 if Hibbert can get back to his old form.


You don't think 40 wins is enough for an 8th seed?

FWIW, the Hawks had 38 wins last season without Horfod and 4 of the 7 teams ahead of them got better or stayed roughly the same on paper. The Heat will still probably be up there, and the Nets got a better coach and get Brook back. Then you take into account that Cleveland who was behind them last year is more than likely gonna win at least 50 games if LeBron doesn't get injured and the Knicks are a good threat to win 40.

I think all the playoff teams in the East next year will at least reach .500, though the 7th and 8th seeds (possibly the 6th seed too) will all probably hover around the 41-44 win mark.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 05:10 PM
they should work out michael beasley.

Forgot about him. He could come cheap.

Bostonjorge
08-02-2014, 05:18 PM
I have the pacers winning about 30-35 games with a 6-8 playoff seed.

Bruno
08-02-2014, 05:24 PM
Forgot about him. He could come cheap.

he's looking for a gig too. no reason beasley can't sign in Indy for a reasonable contract, play 32 minutes and put up 14-16 points a game.

the drop off is obvious but a wing like Beasley, Green or Turner can be plugged into the george position. or they can blow it up.

Chaotic98
08-02-2014, 05:26 PM
I have the pacers winning about 30-35 games with a 6-8 playoff seed.

Not unless there is only 60 games next year. 30-35 games did not get even the 8th seed last year, how would they be in the 6-8 playoff spot next year?

2-ONE-5
08-02-2014, 05:26 PM
LOL.

You have more faith in that conference than I do.

37/38 games will be enough for them to get the 8th seed IMO.


Charlotte went 43-39 as the 7 seed and ATL won 38 without their best player for most of the year for 8th. 43-44 wins seems about right for 8th

Shammyguy3
08-02-2014, 05:27 PM
Never said Stuckey was efficient. Said he was all about getting buckets. Just like Crawford, Ellis etc. Don't need to be efficient to be getting buckets.

Then there are hundreds of players in the league that are "all about getting buckets." Send Joakim Noah out there, have him take 20 shots a game, and he'll easily give you 8-11 buckets!


I feel like people are totally reaching on them "barely winning 30 games". I feel like they'll still be in the playoff hunt and if anyone can get this team to overachieve, it's Vogel.

1st overall defense last year, lost their best perimeter defender and second best perimeter defender.
23rd in overall offense last year, lost one of the best offensive players in the league and arguably their second best offensive player as well

Indiana won 56 games in one of the worst eastern conferences in memory. Take Paul George off that team, how many games do they win? Maybe 45 right? Okay... take off Lance Stephenson too. Now how many games do they win this past year without both of those guys, in a ****** conference, with an already offensively inept roster? I'd say maybe 38 wins.

Now, put all of that together, but have teams across the conference improve (CHI, CLE, ATL, BRK, TOR, WAS, CHA, and even NYK).

Now, how many wins do you think they win? I think Vogel's a good coach, arguably top-5 in the league imo. But that roster is not all that good, putting it nicely.


I have the pacers winning about 30-35 games with a 6-8 playoff seed.

:laugh2: can you explain how that would happen? What would the 7th and 8th seed records be if the Pacers won the 6th seed with a 35-47 record

bstnfn34
08-02-2014, 05:58 PM
Celtics need size and rim protection and have crazy amounts of picks and other assets. If pacers want to really grab assets and rebuild hibbert for Wallace olynyk and a pick or two. IF they actually want to go that route works for both teams

Goose17
08-02-2014, 06:04 PM
Then there are hundreds of players in the league that are "all about getting buckets." Send Joakim Noah out there, have him take 20 shots a game, and he'll easily give you 8-11 buckets!



Not really. Some guys just have a more varied offensive skill set and can get buckets in a variety of ways. Noah isn't about getting buckets, he's about getting stops.

Like Rubio, doesn't matter how many shots you give him that kid isn't about getting buckets he's about creating opportunities for others.

Stucky is all about the buckets. Instant offense.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
08-02-2014, 06:08 PM
Then there are hundreds of players in the league that are "all about getting buckets." Send Joakim Noah out there, have him take 20 shots a game, and he'll easily give you 8-11 buckets!



1st overall defense last year, lost their best perimeter defender and second best perimeter defender.
23rd in overall offense last year, lost one of the best offensive players in the league and arguably their second best offensive player as well

Indiana won 56 games in one of the worst eastern conferences in memory. Take Paul George off that team, how many games do they win? Maybe 45 right? Okay... take off Lance Stephenson too. Now how many games do they win this past year without both of those guys, in a ****** conference, with an already offensively inept roster? I'd say maybe 38 wins.

Now, put all of that together, but have teams across the conference improve (CHI, CLE, ATL, BRK, TOR, WAS, CHA, and even NYK).

Now, how many wins do you think they win? I think Vogel's a good coach, arguably top-5 in the league imo. But that roster is not all that good, putting it nicely.



:laugh2: can you explain how that would happen? What would the 7th and 8th seed records be if the Pacers won the 6th seed with a 35-47 record

I said that they'll be in that 35-41 win range and you seem to agree:shrug:


Celtics need size and rim protection and have crazy amounts of picks and other assets. If pacers want to really grab assets and rebuild hibbert for Wallace olynyk and a pick or two. IF they actually want to go that route works for both teams

Why would the Celtics or Pacers do that?

Ariza's Better
08-02-2014, 06:28 PM
This team is going to struggle. They may push for a finals spot but they have lost their 2 best and most important players. Stuckey and hill aren't going to be enough. Basically their whole season comes down to Hibbert and that should terrify pacer fans.

Mr. Baller
08-02-2014, 06:42 PM
It's tough to see them being able to make the playoffs now, the east has improved and they have nobody who can create a shot on that team other then Stuckey and Copeland.

ankit
08-02-2014, 06:47 PM
First of all it is confirmed Paul George is out for the rest of the season as per Marc Spears. This seems like an absolute tragedy, i doubt Indiana would be good with just Hibbert George Hill and David West and no Granger no Paul no Lance Stephenson. I belive that the Pacers will be 8 seed team or may just be in he lottery. It will be Cleveland, Chicago, Toronto, Washington, Miami, Brooklyn, Bobcats, Kniicks or Pacers. I really dont understand why they did not resign Lance and let him go to the Charlotte in the eastern conference. if Paul George was healthy then there was a strong chance Indiana and Bobcat would have faced each other in the first round and Lance knows all the plays and secrets of the Pacers and not to mention he was an excellent defender.

Mr. Baller
08-02-2014, 06:55 PM
First of all it is confirmed Paul George is out for the rest of the season as per Marc Spears. This seems like an absolute tragedy, i doubt Indiana would be good with just Hibbert George Hill and David West and no Granger no Paul no Lance Stephenson. I belive that the Pacers will be 8 seed team or may just be in he lottery. It will be Cleveland, Chicago, Toronto, Washington, Miami, Brooklyn, Bobcats, Kniicks or Pacers. I really dont understand why they did not resign Lance and let him go to the Charlotte in the eastern conference. if Paul George was healthy then there was a strong chance Indiana and Bobcat would have faced each other in the first round and Lance knows all the plays and secrets of the Pacers and not to mention he was an excellent defender.

:laugh:

kingsdelez24
08-02-2014, 06:58 PM
They'll be fine, they have good vets and are a strong defensive team. I see them as a Rose-less Chicago 2.0

Punk
08-02-2014, 06:59 PM
They were bound to lose ground with Stephenson leaving. This tragedy puts them out of the playoff picture and within the 30-37 win column with the likes of Detroit and NYK.

Hill/Watson
Miles/Stuckey
Copeland
West/Scola
Hibbert


That's not a good team at all.

Chrisclover
08-02-2014, 07:09 PM
9th in the east.

Chaotic98
08-02-2014, 07:10 PM
They'll be fine, they have good vets and are a strong defensive team. I see them as a Rose-less Chicago 2.0

They have little to no perimeter D now, Hibbert is on the decline, Lance and PG were good rebounders, Hibbert's and West's rebounding is in decline and they have limited offense. They should blow up their team and try and build for next season around PG, since West will be 35 when PG returns and Hibbert will further decline. Sell now for something decent instead of being mediocre for years to come.

Ezio
08-02-2014, 07:20 PM
They'll be fine, they have good vets and are a strong defensive team. I see them as a Rose-less Chicago 2.0

Lost their best offensive and defensive players

kobe4thewinbang
08-02-2014, 07:36 PM
It does not look good for the Pacers next season. However, the east is still pretty bad. They could sneak in at the bottom seeds. Let's see here...

Cavaliers
Bulls
Wizards
Heat
Raptors
Hornets
Hawks?
Knicks?
Nets?
Pacers?

One of those question marks is missing out come next playoffs, and I might be forgetting some other teams.

Shammyguy3
08-02-2014, 07:44 PM
Not really. Some guys just have a more varied offensive skill set and can get buckets in a variety of ways. Noah isn't about getting buckets, he's about getting stops.

Like Rubio, doesn't matter how many shots you give him that kid isn't about getting buckets he's about creating opportunities for others.

Stucky is all about the buckets. Instant offense.

If you can't score efficiently, then there is no such thing as instant offense. Because in order to provide offense, you have to make your shots. And if you don't make your shots, you're not being efficient.

I know, it's a mind blowing concept.


I said that they'll be in that 35-41 win range and you seem to agree:shrug:



Why would the Celtics or Pacers do that?

I said they'll be lucky to get to 30 wins for the reasons I stated. I think you're giving them a huge benefit of the doubt (and that 38ish wins record without PG/Lance was for the Pacers this past season, not this upcoming season where every team in the East improved really

Mr. Baller
08-02-2014, 07:46 PM
Don't think the Hawks are a question mark. They made it last year without Horford and they are only going to get better with Bud's system

IversonIsKrazy
08-02-2014, 07:49 PM
I got them around 10th now in East.
Bulls, Cavs, Raps, Wiz, Heat, Hornets, Hawks, Knicks and Nets all above.

PacersForLife
08-02-2014, 08:41 PM
he's looking for a gig too. no reason beasley can't sign in Indy for a reasonable contract, play 32 minutes and put up 14-16 points a game.

the drop off is obvious but a wing like Beasley, Green or Turner can be plugged into the george position. or they can blow it up.

I would probably take Green out of all of them. I don't see why we would want Turner back and Beasley just doesn't seem like a guy the Pacers would sign.

Knicks Boogie
08-02-2014, 08:52 PM
Ok now take the Pacers completely off the list. Larry Legend screwed that organization by not signing Lance. Now their 2 starting wings are CJ Miles and Copeland. ..... haaaaaa
Stick a fork in them.

Anyway, the Knicks are much better than last year. I say Much because they have a REAL coach who I don't think will play favorites but instead play who is performing best. Fish also has Phil there for guidance forming "Phish triangle System" which will help the ball move out of Melo's hands, improve the game of guys who struggled last year like Jr and Shumpert. They have a very good floor general who led the NBA in 3pt % last year and is always tops in assists.

Most importantly, Knicks have 4 very good hungry young players off the bench in Larkin, Timmy Hardaway, Shumpert, Early and Cole Aldridge who is finally coming into his own. Not to mention above average role players like Prigs, Bargnani, Jason Smith, Ellington and Jeremy Tyler.

The Knicks are stacked with depth and if Amare and Dalembert can play like 70% of their old selves, Knicks will be the Sleeper team of the East.

Keep in mind, when healthy, Knicks won 54 games and the Atlantic crown just a year ago. The Cavs and Bulls are just as big ? marks as the Knicks because chemistry will play a big part in their success as well.

Phil is the master of chemistry!

PacersForLife
08-02-2014, 08:56 PM
Ok now take the Pacers completely off the list. Larry Legend screwed that organization by not signing Lance. Now their 2 starting wings are CJ Miles and Copeland. ..... haaaaaa
Stick a fork in them.

Anyway, the Knicks are much better than last year. I say Much because they have a REAL coach who I don't think will play favorites but instead play who is performing best. Fish also has Phil there for guidance forming "Phish triangle System" which will help the ball move out of Melo's hands, improve the game of guys who struggled last year like Jr and Shumpert. They have a very good floor general who led the NBA in 3pt % last year and is always tops in assists.

Most importantly, Knicks have 4 very good hungry young players off the bench in Larkin, Timmy Hardaway, Shumpert, Early and Cole Aldridge who is finally coming into his own. Not to mention above average role players like Prigs, Bargnani, Jason Smith, Ellington and Jeremy Tyler.

The Knicks are stacked with depth and if Amare and Dalembert can play like 70% of their old selves, Knicks will be the Sleeper team of the East.

Keep in mind, when healthy, Knicks won 54 games and the Atlantic crown just a year ago. The Cavs and Bulls are just as big ? marks as the Knicks because chemistry will play a big part in their success as well.

Phil is the master of chemistry!

I don't see Copeland starting considering he could barely get off the bench last year and I also didn't realize this thread was about the Knicks.

InRoseWeTrust
08-02-2014, 09:09 PM
Maybe Indy will shake things up now that PG is out for a bit. Shed Hibbert/West, make a run at Bledsoe, slide Hill to the 2.

Mr. Baller
08-02-2014, 09:10 PM
Ok now take the Pacers completely off the list. Larry Legend screwed that organization by not signing Lance. Now their 2 starting wings are CJ Miles and Copeland. ..... haaaaaa
Stick a fork in them.

Anyway, the Knicks are much better than last year. I say Much because they have a REAL coach who I don't think will play favorites but instead play who is performing best. Fish also has Phil there for guidance forming "Phish triangle System" which will help the ball move out of Melo's hands, improve the game of guys who struggled last year like Jr and Shumpert. They have a very good floor general who led the NBA in 3pt % last year and is always tops in assists.

Most importantly, Knicks have 4 very good hungry young players off the bench in Larkin, Timmy Hardaway, Shumpert, Early and Cole Aldridge who is finally coming into his own. Not to mention above average role players like Prigs, Bargnani, Jason Smith, Ellington and Jeremy Tyler.

The Knicks are stacked with depth and if Amare and Dalembert can play like 70% of their old selves, Knicks will be the Sleeper team of the East.

Keep in mind, when healthy, Knicks won 54 games and the Atlantic crown just a year ago. The Cavs and Bulls are just as big ? marks as the Knicks because chemistry will play a big part in their success as well.

Phil is the master of chemistry!

Except Phil isnt the coach

kobe4thewinbang
08-02-2014, 09:12 PM
Don't think the Hawks are a question mark. They made it last year without Horford and they are only going to get better with Bud's systemFair points. I put the question mark because they nearly were outed by the Knicks.

torocan
08-02-2014, 09:15 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I think the Pacers can still be a bubble team even without PG and Stephenson.

Copeland and Scola for all their shortcomings can still score the ball. The defense will definitely take a step backward, however I expect the perimeter shooting and the passing to improve. Stephenson had talents but he was a bit of a black hole on offense... way too much dribbling and iso ball when Stephenson had the ball.

Similarly, I actually think the chemistry will improve significantly over the last half of last year. Losing Stephenson and having PG out for the season due to injury should act as a catalyst in terms of the team bonding.

Do I think they'll be a contender by any stretch? Heck no. However, I can see them using this as motivation to push a .500 record or so... enough for somewhere between a 7 and 10th seed.

I also think Vogel will need to go to more offensive line ups and more small ball. I suspect we'll see more line ups with either 2 guards with Hill and Stuckey, or a smaller roster with Scola and Copeland pushing the perimeter shooting. Also, don't be surprised if Hibbert steps up his game with the team leadership falling squarely on his shoulders along with West. I suspect this will be a make or break season for Hibbert... he wanted more touches, now he'll have them and has to show that he deserves them.

As for the idea of Indiana tanking, I think that's a high risk proposition. If you believe that PG comes back for the following season in good form, you really don't want to completely blow up the roster if you can avoid it. Use the opportunity to develop and play your bench players more and to work out some offensive line ups that can score more efficiently.

The Pacers were all defense, no offense last year. If they can find a way to better utilize players like Copeland and Scola and find a good role for Stuckey, I think they can be in decent position for when PG comes back... or at least be in position to make a good trade to shore up the roster for the following year.

Either way, tough situation for the Pacers. They were looking like they were in really good shape going into this year with Lebron bolting to Cleveland. Now we'll see how good of a coach Vogel really is when the chips don't fall his way...

NBA_Starter
08-02-2014, 09:46 PM
They will end up in the lottery after this season. I had them barely making the playoffs anyway now no chance.

MelanconMadness
08-03-2014, 12:55 AM
I think they're a 7-8 seed if not miss the playoffs. Tough loss

ChI_ShIzzLe
08-03-2014, 03:26 AM
Does it really matter if they make the playoffs or not? They'll be swept away by either the Bulls or Cavs in the 1st round.

Goose17
08-03-2014, 03:40 AM
If you can't score efficiently, then there is no such thing as instant offense. Because in order to provide offense, you have to make your shots. And if you don't make your shots, you're not being efficient.

I know, it's a mind blowing concept.



I disagree with that. Most inefficient guys aren't consistently inefficient, they are streaky.

Stuckey, Crawford, Ellis etc can all get hot and go off in a matter of seconds no matter how much shots they previously missed. That makes them dangerous, a constant threat no matter how bad they are on any given night.

Streaky players with a variety of moves that can create for themselves have a place within this league. Those guys only focus on scoring, that's it. Getting buckets is a mindset.

I would put Irving on the "get buckets" list. Dude is inefficient but labelled as a superstar because he gets more buckets than the other inefficient guys and has tight handles lmao.

Everything is about efficiency these days and I like it, I'm a fan of efficiency. It wins games. But don't tell me inefficient players have no place in this league and can't get buckets.


Stuckeys eFG% last season was .450

Now for comparison, look at last season, in the top 20 for PPG you had guys like DeRozan (.452), Irving (.480), Gay (.483), Cousins (.496),

Now those guys are obviously "the next tier", but they're still not what I would personally describe as "efficient" and yet they're looked at as all star caliber talent or potential all star talent and were in the top 20 for PPG, proving that inefficient guys do have a place in this league with "getting buckets".

Look at the tier below that;

Crawford (.472), Ellis (.478), Green (.469), Walker (.441), Lawson (.475), Jennings (.441), Evans (.448), Butler (.446) and the list goes on...


Streaky guys have a place within this league. I'm not saying I like any of these guys as players personally, I'm just saying, they have their place and they get buckets, it's what they do (except from Butler and Cousins).

likemystylez
08-03-2014, 10:03 AM
Does it really matter if they make the playoffs or not? They'll be swept away by either the Bulls or Cavs in the 1st round.

I think its important to make the playoffs- it kinda shows that the team still spent the whole season working towards a goal- rather than basically start tanking in mid January.

Are you one of those people who thinks every team who didnt win the title had a complete failure of a season?

likemystylez
08-03-2014, 10:05 AM
I think they're a 7-8 seed if not miss the playoffs. Tough loss

well its time for someone else to step up. a few yrs ago when granger had injury problems, paul george stepped up. Now its an opportunity for someone else.

Luckily- they play in the east.... which is actually a lower level of competition than the D league. LOL

Shammyguy3
08-03-2014, 11:16 AM
I disagree with that. Most inefficient guys aren't consistently inefficient, they are streaky.

Actually, they are. That's why they're inefficient. If they were streaky, they'd have a similar amount of inefficient games and efficient games, and their overall efficiency would be around their position's average.


Stuckey, Crawford, Ellis etc can all get hot and go off in a matter of seconds no matter how much shots they previously missed. That makes them dangerous, a constant threat no matter how bad they are on any given night.

So can John Lucas III. Just because you're a constant threat because you can go off one every 5 games, doesn't mean that you're efficient let alone a good offensive player.


Streaky players with a variety of moves that can create for themselves have a place within this league. Those guys only focus on scoring, that's it. Getting buckets is a mindset.

Sure they have a place in this league. They can have the "i'm gonna score" mindset, they just typically don't score very often. Hence, inefficient.


I would put Irving on the "get buckets" list. Dude is inefficient but labelled as a superstar because he gets more buckets than the other inefficient guys and has tight handles lmao.

Irving was inefficient this past season. He's not a superstar, and has never been labeled one. And getting more buckets than other inefficient guys simply means you're the tallest midget. Whoopy.

Everything is about efficiency these days and I like it, I'm a fan of efficiency. It wins games. But don't tell me inefficient players have no place in this league and can't get buckets.

you've obviously fallen off the barrel if you think that I've come anywhere close to saying anything along the lines of this



Stuckeys eFG% last season was .450

Now for comparison, look at last season, in the top 20 for PPG you had guys like DeRozan (.452), Irving (.480), Gay (.483), Cousins (.496),

DeRozan is the only guy that comes close to Stuckey's efg% last year. A 0.30 difference is HUGE. And why did you only look at efg%? Why don't you compare their true shooting percentages, their usage rates, their offensive ratings, their win shares, and their PER across the board and you'll see how poorly Stuckey stacks up.



Now those guys are obviously "the next tier", but they're still not what I would personally describe as "efficient" and yet they're looked at as all star caliber talent or potential all star talent and were in the top 20 for PPG, proving that inefficient guys do have a place in this league with "getting buckets".

There's a huge difference between being an all-star caliber talent and actually producing at that level.


Look at the tier below that;

Crawford (.472), Ellis (.478), Green (.469), Walker (.441), Lawson (.475), Jennings (.441), Evans (.448), Butler (.446) and the list goes on...

Cherry picking stats is beautiful. How about you go look at these guys' other stats and compare them to Stuckey now.



Streaky guys have a place within this league. I'm not saying I like any of these guys as players personally, I'm just saying, they have their place and they get buckets, it's what they do (except from Butler and Cousins).

Again, you've brought this discussion to a different place. Stuckey's an inefficient player. Those players can "want" to score, but if they're inefficient and if their numbers across the board show something along the same lines, then they aren't really "getting buckets" and they aren't simply "streaky."

Glad you admitted that IND won't make the playoffs though, by taking all other playoff teams + CLE ahead of them for this upcoming season.

Goose17
08-03-2014, 11:33 AM
They still have a chance to make the playoffs.

We'll have to agree to disagree on inefficiency. I mean statistically Rose had the most inefficient MVP season in the leagues history but not many people bother about it.

Streaky guys have a place. And Stuckey can get buckets, he's an ideal sixth man IMO. Efficient or not. He gets you points. That's all they need from him, especially now.


Oh and the "gap" in their eFG% may be somewhat significant like you mentioned but they're still technically inefficient. Maybe less inefficient but still inefficient.

And yes, most people consider Irving an all star level talent, which makes him a superstar to the majority of fans (whether they're right or not is irrelevant) Melo is another terribly inefficient "superstar".

2-ONE-5
08-03-2014, 12:48 PM
lol dude stop Stuckey is garbage. there is no one in the Pacers lineup to make things easier for anyone on offense, its going to be a nightmare for them.

LA_Raiders
08-03-2014, 12:52 PM
They may not make the POffs.

Goose17
08-03-2014, 01:11 PM
lol dude stop Stuckey is garbage. there is no one in the Pacers lineup to make things easier for anyone on offense, its going to be a nightmare for them.

LOL... garbage is an exaggeration, he's decent, not great, but decent. And off the bench he provides solid offense. He gets buckets, end of.

I never said that would make up for it, I clearly said they would need to go for a more team oriented offense and have their defense carry them.

I feel people are underrating West as well tbh.

mjt20mik
08-03-2014, 01:23 PM
Too early to tell honestly because you have to see what Vogel can do with the roster. I honestly see them as a 6-8 seed now. But I mean anything can happen.

Crackadalic
08-03-2014, 01:46 PM
Fighting for a playoff spot but that it.

2-ONE-5
08-03-2014, 03:31 PM
LOL... garbage is an exaggeration, he's decent, not great, but decent. And off the bench he provides solid offense. He gets buckets, end of.

I never said that would make up for it, I clearly said they would need to go for a more team oriented offense and have their defense carry them.

I feel people are underrating West as well tbh.

lol no hes not even decent and stop saying he gets buckets. anyone jacking up shots is gonna get buckets

Goose17
08-03-2014, 03:36 PM
lol no hes not even decent and stop saying he gets buckets. anyone jacking up shots is gonna get buckets

Then why doesn't everyone do it?

He is decent. Go to the NBA stats page, set parameters for Guards, PPG, eFG%, all players that played less than 30 minutes per game last season. Stuckey is going to be in the top 10 for scoring. He gets buckets.

If anyone could do it, anyone would.

Agree to disagree I guess.

2-ONE-5
08-03-2014, 03:42 PM
he shoots 42% with 13ppg for his carrer and his highest scoring season came with his lowest shooting %. he has never been an effective player in his career and certainly isnt enough to help hold indy. over to make the playoffs,.

there is a long list of players who are capable of getting buckets provided the opportunity and Stuckey doesnt even get buckets the way you suggest.

Goose17
08-03-2014, 03:48 PM
he shoots 42% with 13ppg for his carrer and his highest scoring season came with his lowest shooting %. he has never been an effective player in his career and certainly isnt enough to help hold indy. over to make the playoffs,.

there is a long list of players who are capable of getting buckets provided the opportunity and Stuckey doesnt even get buckets the way you suggest.

I never said he was enough to get them into the playoffs, lmao, he's a mediocre role player, a chucker and streaky as hell. I said he gets buckets and will give them a solid 14/15 points a night off the bench, he will be an asset. Not a great asset but an asset none the less.

And FG% is a trash stat to use really, Iverson hit 42% for his career. Kobe hit 44% for his career. Melo hits 44% for his career. Personally I think all of those guys are inefficient and always have been but it just goes to show that FG% doesn't show you their true worth in terms of getting buckets.


Again, if anyone can do it, why doesn't anyone? There's guys netting less points on a lower %, more points on a lower % etc etc If it's so easy why doesn't everyone do it?


Agree to disagree. As I said.

2-ONE-5
08-03-2014, 03:58 PM
lol wow now i have to get out when u start using Kobe and AI to defend Stuckey of all people.

Goose17
08-03-2014, 04:22 PM
lol wow now i have to get out when u start using Kobe and AI to defend Stuckey of all people.

Not using them to defend Stuckey, I was using them to show you that FG% is a weak stat when discussing efficiency as a whole.

ewing
08-04-2014, 09:15 AM
they are a lottery team.

Shammyguy3
08-04-2014, 12:40 PM
They still have a chance to make the playoffs.

Sure but only because of the possibility of other teams stars going down for a significant amount of time


We'll have to agree to disagree on inefficiency. I mean statistically Rose had the most inefficient MVP season in the leagues history but not many people bother about it.

'11 Rose > '01 Iverson especially in efficiency

'11 Rose ------ 55.0ts% 48.5efg% 32.2usg% 113 ORtg 0.208 WS/48 23.5 PER
'01 Iverson --- 51.8ts% 44.7efg% 35.9usg% 106 ORtg 0.190 WS/48 24.0 PER


Streaky guys have a place. And Stuckey can get buckets, he's an ideal sixth man IMO. Efficient or not. He gets you points. That's all they need from him, especially now.

If a player gets you points but at an efficiency level below league average AND below your team's average efficiency, he's not getting you points better than anyone else.



Oh and the "gap" in their eFG% may be somewhat significant like you mentioned but they're still technically inefficient. Maybe less inefficient but still inefficient.

It's absolutely significant :laugh2: and two other points: (1) using just efg% to show how inefficient a player is, is so dumb and (2) outside of DeRozan none of those guys are really inefficient in terms of efg% at all ... (3) refer back to #1


And yes, most people consider Irving an all star level talent, which makes him a superstar to the majority of fans (whether they're right or not is irrelevant) Melo is another terribly inefficient "superstar".

all-star is incredibly different than superstar, now you're changing your argument... and no, Kyrie Irving is not a superstar to the majority of fans. You're pulling that where the sun don't shine. And Melo isn't terribly inefficient either, the past 2 years he's posted a 56ts% 50efg% 34usg% 112 ORtg 0.177 WS/48 24.6 PER.... how is that terribly inefficient, like that's not even "average" efficiency.

You're grasping for straws

Chrisclover
08-08-2014, 01:09 AM
rumors run rampant that Bird is considering packing West and Hibbert out for some young pieces.