PDA

View Full Version : The Great Decline of New York Basketball



sixer04fan
08-01-2014, 02:35 PM
Via Grantland... New York used to be the indisputable king of breeding basketball talent. Now, not even close. A great article, but way too long to post here. Just gonna paste in some paragraphs.

This is not a troll thread, just a very interesting article about trends in basketball history. Gotta appreciate NY's impact on the NBA, especially in the past.

I'd love to get some NY posters' takes.

http://grantland.com/features/nyc-basketball-decline-lance-stephenson-kareem-abdul-jabbar-stephon-marbury-kenny-anderson-tom-konchalski-nba/

The Mecca in Decline - Why doesn’t New York City produce elite NBA talent like it used to?

...Once, New York was home to more basketball talent than any other city on the planet. No more. As for what changed, theories vary. An older scout says it’s all about attitude. A younger coach says they only lack muscle. Some of the NBA’s remaining New Yorkers blame the city’s emphasis on skills of dwindling value to today’s teams. Others cite greed, poverty, overcrowding, or — why not? — video games, social media, and YouTube. It’s all flailing guesswork aimed at making sense of a decline no one saw coming but everyone watched happen. And though the explanations differ, on the central point, they all agree.

New York is no longer the greatest basketball city on earth. Right now, it’s not even close.

When we talk about the decline of New York City basketball, we’re not talking about the Knicks’ interminable incompetence or the Nets’ lavish and misguided efforts to build a contender. We’re talking about the city’s footprint in the NBA: Years ago, New York’s playgrounds and high schools served as the most fertile breeding ground for the game’s elite. Today, you’re just as likely to become a star if you’re born in Los Angeles, Toronto, or Raleigh.

In the 1970s, eight different New Yorkers made All-Star teams. That was more than the states of Texas, New Jersey, Florida, and Georgia combined.1 When Julius Erving wanted to test himself, he rode the train into Manhattan from Long Island. When Wilt Chamberlain wanted to prove he stood above the best in the world, he made his way north from Philly.

...

Regardless of whom you consider a true New York product, you won’t have a hard time finding evidence to show the five boroughs’ decline. How about this: North Carolina’s Research Triangle region has produced the same number of McDonald’s All Americans in the last six years as New York. Not to mention that in the last decade, the Toronto suburb of Brampton has yielded more top-five NBA draft picks. It’s not only an issue of elite talent. According to Mode Analytics, New York state ranked 27th per capita this past season in supplying players for Division I men’s college basketball programs. If you want to play D-I ball, the raw chances of making it are better if you’re raised in Delaware or Wyoming than in New York. There are more Californians than New Yorkers in the ACC right now, and more Indianans in the Big East.

We can keep going. Not a single New Yorker was taken in the first round of June’s NBA draft. And before last season, the Student Sports high school basketball poll had only one New York team (Brooklyn’s Abraham Lincoln) in its top 25. The same poll had two top-25 teams from Jacksonville.

But cities are judged by their stars. Los Angeles has Russell Westbrook and Paul Pierce; Chicago has Derrick Rose and Dwyane Wade. “Let’s think about this for a minute,” says Macky Bergman, a New York native who runs a youth basketball program in lower Manhattan. “Who’s the best player to come out of New York in the last 25 years? I mean, you’ve got Lamar Odom, Ron Artest, Joakim Noah. The fact that we’re even talking about those guys lets you know it’s a problem.”

...

Which brings us back to Bergman’s question. Who’s the best New York product of the last 25 years? “If you really think about [it],” he says, “the best one is probably Stephon Marbury. Stephon Marbury! I mean, good player and everything — even better than people give him credit for — but really? That’s the best we can do? And we’re supposed to be OK with that?”

...

That moment foreshadowed New York’s current talent shortage. “Today,” Konchalski says, “the playgrounds are basically empty. You see a few immigrant kids, that’s it. Everyone else is inside doing who knows what.” He’s sitting at a corner table in a deli just off Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn, talking between sips of soup from a Styrofoam cup. He stopped in on his way to Midwood High School, where he’ll watch a kid he’s heard might possibly be a low D-I prospect. These days, in New York, that’s often as good as it gets.

...

New York has never produced football talent. Same for baseball. The reason, cited for decades: no space. Today, you’re starting to hear the same argument come up with regard to basketball. Other places have space, and space can be filled with regulation-size courts and hangarlike weight rooms, few of which can be found in New York.

...

Only now, the parks are less crowded. Instead of seeing one kid evade a couple dozen defenders, you can walk by without seeing anyone at all. “Now they’re playing video games,” says Maurice Hicks, who coached Kemba Walker at the onetime Harlem powerhouse Rice High School, now defunct. “They’re on Twitter and Instagram.”

Fine, yes, kids like technology. But that sounds less like a New York issue and more like someone bemoaning how things have changed, right? It’s not like Texans don’t have access to Snapchat, and they’ve still managed to produce five of ESPN’s top-15 prospects in the country this year. “But if I’m in Texas,” says Hicks, “and it’s January and I want to work on my game, I get in the car and drive to the park, where it’s 60 degrees outside. Or I go to one of the gyms where I can get some shots in. I’ve got options. If I’m in Harlem, maybe I gotta go outside and shovel snow. Or I gotta go to a gym that’s not top-notch. You know what? Maybe I’ll just sit here and play NBA 2K instead.”

It may sound like a stretch, but Hicks is getting at something. Decades ago, New York dominated only inasmuch as the rest of the country — hell, the rest of the world — failed to reach the city’s standard. But it may not be New York’s fault that the balance of power has shifted. “Other places are just catching up,” says Mark Jerome, who runs the Riverside Church Hawks AAU program. “I don’t even think the level of talent in New York is dropping off. They’re just better.”

In 1973-74, one of every 15.9 players in the NBA graduated from a New York City high school. (That’s if you assume 15 players per team. Obviously, rosters fluctuate over the course of a season.) By 1983-84, the number had dropped to one of every 17.25, and in 1993-94, it was one in 25.31. The numbers for this past season? One in 90. That’s partly because so many New Yorkers leave the city during high school, but if you change the formula to account for players who spent at least one season at a New York City school, then it’s one of every 37.7. One out of every 37.5 Americans lives in New York. The city was once vastly overrepresented in the NBA. Now it seems to have regressed almost exactly to the mean.

...

And it goes on to other theories. Highly recommended reading. I hadn't realized that New York has fallen so far in producing basketball talent. I just blindly assumed all along the state/city was still the dominant force in making NBA players.

D_Rose1118
08-01-2014, 02:52 PM
Via Grantland... New York used to be the indisputable king of breeding basketball talent. Now, not even close. A great article, but way too long to post here. Just gonna paste in some paragraphs.

This is not a troll thread, just a very interesting article about trends in basketball history. Gotta appreciate NY's impact on the NBA, especially in the past.

I'd love to get some NY posters' takes.

http://grantland.com/features/nyc-basketball-decline-lance-stephenson-kareem-abdul-jabbar-stephon-marbury-kenny-anderson-tom-konchalski-nba/

The Mecca in Decline - Why doesn’t New York City produce elite NBA talent like it used to?

...Once, New York was home to more basketball talent than any other city on the planet. No more. As for what changed, theories vary. An older scout says it’s all about attitude. A younger coach says they only lack muscle. Some of the NBA’s remaining New Yorkers blame the city’s emphasis on skills of dwindling value to today’s teams. Others cite greed, poverty, overcrowding, or — why not? — video games, social media, and YouTube. It’s all flailing guesswork aimed at making sense of a decline no one saw coming but everyone watched happen. And though the explanations differ, on the central point, they all agree.

New York is no longer the greatest basketball city on earth. Right now, it’s not even close.

When we talk about the decline of New York City basketball, we’re not talking about the Knicks’ interminable incompetence or the Nets’ lavish and misguided efforts to build a contender. We’re talking about the city’s footprint in the NBA: Years ago, New York’s playgrounds and high schools served as the most fertile breeding ground for the game’s elite. Today, you’re just as likely to become a star if you’re born in Los Angeles, Toronto, or Raleigh.

In the 1970s, eight different New Yorkers made All-Star teams. That was more than the states of Texas, New Jersey, Florida, and Georgia combined.1 When Julius Erving wanted to test himself, he rode the train into Manhattan from Long Island. When Wilt Chamberlain wanted to prove he stood above the best in the world, he made his way north from Philly.

...

Regardless of whom you consider a true New York product, you won’t have a hard time finding evidence to show the five boroughs’ decline. How about this: North Carolina’s Research Triangle region has produced the same number of McDonald’s All Americans in the last six years as New York. Not to mention that in the last decade, the Toronto suburb of Brampton has yielded more top-five NBA draft picks. It’s not only an issue of elite talent. According to Mode Analytics, New York state ranked 27th per capita this past season in supplying players for Division I men’s college basketball programs. If you want to play D-I ball, the raw chances of making it are better if you’re raised in Delaware or Wyoming than in New York. There are more Californians than New Yorkers in the ACC right now, and more Indianans in the Big East.

We can keep going. Not a single New Yorker was taken in the first round of June’s NBA draft. And before last season, the Student Sports high school basketball poll had only one New York team (Brooklyn’s Abraham Lincoln) in its top 25. The same poll had two top-25 teams from Jacksonville.

But cities are judged by their stars. Los Angeles has Russell Westbrook and Paul Pierce; Chicago has Derrick Rose and Dwyane Wade. “Let’s think about this for a minute,” says Macky Bergman, a New York native who runs a youth basketball program in lower Manhattan. “Who’s the best player to come out of New York in the last 25 years? I mean, you’ve got Lamar Odom, Ron Artest, Joakim Noah. The fact that we’re even talking about those guys lets you know it’s a problem.”

...

Which brings us back to Bergman’s question. Who’s the best New York product of the last 25 years? “If you really think about [it],” he says, “the best one is probably Stephon Marbury. Stephon Marbury! I mean, good player and everything — even better than people give him credit for — but really? That’s the best we can do? And we’re supposed to be OK with that?”

...

That moment foreshadowed New York’s current talent shortage. “Today,” Konchalski says, “the playgrounds are basically empty. You see a few immigrant kids, that’s it. Everyone else is inside doing who knows what.” He’s sitting at a corner table in a deli just off Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn, talking between sips of soup from a Styrofoam cup. He stopped in on his way to Midwood High School, where he’ll watch a kid he’s heard might possibly be a low D-I prospect. These days, in New York, that’s often as good as it gets.

...

New York has never produced football talent. Same for baseball. The reason, cited for decades: no space. Today, you’re starting to hear the same argument come up with regard to basketball. Other places have space, and space can be filled with regulation-size courts and hangarlike weight rooms, few of which can be found in New York.

...

Only now, the parks are less crowded. Instead of seeing one kid evade a couple dozen defenders, you can walk by without seeing anyone at all. “Now they’re playing video games,” says Maurice Hicks, who coached Kemba Walker at the onetime Harlem powerhouse Rice High School, now defunct. “They’re on Twitter and Instagram.”

Fine, yes, kids like technology. But that sounds less like a New York issue and more like someone bemoaning how things have changed, right? It’s not like Texans don’t have access to Snapchat, and they’ve still managed to produce five of ESPN’s top-15 prospects in the country this year. “But if I’m in Texas,” says Hicks, “and it’s January and I want to work on my game, I get in the car and drive to the park, where it’s 60 degrees outside. Or I go to one of the gyms where I can get some shots in. I’ve got options. If I’m in Harlem, maybe I gotta go outside and shovel snow. Or I gotta go to a gym that’s not top-notch. You know what? Maybe I’ll just sit here and play NBA 2K instead.”

It may sound like a stretch, but Hicks is getting at something. Decades ago, New York dominated only inasmuch as the rest of the country — hell, the rest of the world — failed to reach the city’s standard. But it may not be New York’s fault that the balance of power has shifted. “Other places are just catching up,” says Mark Jerome, who runs the Riverside Church Hawks AAU program. “I don’t even think the level of talent in New York is dropping off. They’re just better.”

In 1973-74, one of every 15.9 players in the NBA graduated from a New York City high school. (That’s if you assume 15 players per team. Obviously, rosters fluctuate over the course of a season.) By 1983-84, the number had dropped to one of every 17.25, and in 1993-94, it was one in 25.31. The numbers for this past season? One in 90. That’s partly because so many New Yorkers leave the city during high school, but if you change the formula to account for players who spent at least one season at a New York City school, then it’s one of every 37.7. One out of every 37.5 Americans lives in New York. The city was once vastly overrepresented in the NBA. Now it seems to have regressed almost exactly to the mean.

...

And it goes on to other theories. Highly recommended reading. I hadn't realized that New York has fallen so far in producing basketball talent. I just blindly assumed all along the state/city was still the dominant force in making NBA players.


thank you for someone pointing out that NYC has been beyond average in regards to talent...
chicago and LA have produced far superior talent since NYC's golden era in the 70's
NYC bball isnt the Mecca of anything except calling themselves the mecca

sep11ie
08-01-2014, 03:06 PM
Did you have to quote the OP when you were the first to respond?

benzni
08-01-2014, 03:10 PM
Did you have to quote the OP when you were the first to respond?

Some people like scrolling down half the page to read responses :shrug:

AddiX
08-01-2014, 03:16 PM
There's not really any real research done here by the author.

Mostly opinion based. Or a few quotes from random ballers.

Author pretty much says, that its not that ny doesn't have the talent, its that most of them leave to go somewhere they can develop without the distractions of the city.

He also points to the sport growing, tries to point to the fact canada has produced so many top picks recently.

Are we really going to sit here and say canada is the best basketball country in the world because of that?

No, were not, its a huge sport, lot of places are good at it. End of story.

sixer04fan
08-01-2014, 03:26 PM
There's not really any real research done here by the author.

Mostly opinion based. Or a few quotes from random ballers.

Maybe you should re-read... There are some very telling stats about the declining rates of NY ballers in NCAA, NBA, and who the best players have been and about the high school team rankings. All compared to other places in the country. NY has been average or below average.

DillyDill
08-01-2014, 03:31 PM
Maybe you should re-read... There are some very telling stats about the declining rates of NY ballers in NCAA, NBA, and who the best players have been and about the high school team rankings. All compared to other places in the country. NY has been average or below average.
Lance is a gr8 product

AddiX
08-01-2014, 03:35 PM
Maybe you should re-read... There are some very telling stats about the declining rates of NY ballers in NCAA, NBA, and who the best players have been and about the high school team rankings. All compared to other places in the country. NY has been average or below average.

I did read the article, the only stat there is a per capita stat which is completely pointless in this discussion. Author is so biased he doesn't even give us the raw numbers.

Especially when you consider how different NYC is from the rest of the world. Per capita NYC has the largest population of people who live there who aren't native to ny, and they sure as heck don't come here tom play ball.

abe_froman
08-01-2014, 03:54 PM
of course ,it was built on 3 things that arent true anymore
1.jim crow ending ,so all those great talents that were originally from the south or had parents from there stopped fleeing to cities like ny.you can stay in fla or nc or texas and still have those opportunities.
2.the growth of popularity in the sport.the sport really didnt start to catch on in cities like la,chi,ect until around the 70's
3. it was always blown out of proportion by nyers(city pride and all that),its just all the talent coming from other areas just werent talked about

IndyRealist
08-01-2014, 04:02 PM
Indianans? When has that ever been a word?

IndyRealist
08-01-2014, 04:08 PM
Lance is a gr8 product

This is true. Lance is the best New York product in a LONG time though.

D-Leethal
08-01-2014, 04:08 PM
thank you for someone pointing out that NYC has been beyond average in regards to talent...
chicago and LA have produced far superior talent since NYC's golden era in the 70's
NYC bball isnt the Mecca of anything except calling themselves the mecca

Everyone calls NYC the Mecca outside of your typical NY haters. Every single top tier basketball player acknowledges it as such and breeding talent was never the reason it was called the Mecca. Do your homework on the history. Its bigger than the present.

Seems pretty clear to me, basketball has become much bigger Nationally and Globally and the regional talent pools are representing that.

D-Leethal
08-01-2014, 04:09 PM
I did read the article, the only stat there is a per capita stat which is completely pointless in this discussion. Author is so biased he doesn't even give us the raw numbers.

Especially when you consider how different NYC is from the rest of the world. Per capita NYC has the largest population of people who live there who aren't native to ny, and they sure as heck don't come here tom play ball.

Good point.

sixer04fan
08-01-2014, 04:09 PM
I did read the article, the only stat there is a per capita stat which is completely pointless in this discussion. Author is so biased he doesn't even give us the raw numbers.


The raw numbers? Like what, you want him to supply spreadsheets or something? It's a Grantland article not a stat class. It doesn't make it biased.

How about the lack of top ranked high school teams from the state? How about not producing one legitimate superstar in the last generation? How about the rapidly declining rate of NY high school players that are in the NBA now, especially compared to how populated the state is... These are all basic telling signs. NY used to be a basketball mecca for producing NBA talent. It was dominant compared to everywhere else. It is not anymore, and that seems like an unbiased fact based on the evidence provided. Either other areas have caught up for various reasons, or NY basketball has actually declined, or both. It's not a biased agenda from the writer, it's an article which acknowledges the trends and offers possible theories for why it's gotten to this point. I'm not sure what there is to disagree with in terms of the message of the article. So I'm not sure why you think it's so biased or untrue.

Unless you believe that NY is still the mecca of basketball it once was, and that what the writer is suggesting is wrong, or that his points are incorrect... In which case I'd like to see your "raw data"

D-Leethal
08-01-2014, 04:11 PM
The raw numbers? Like what, you want him to supply spreadsheets or something? It's a Grantland article not a stat class. It doesn't make it biased.

How about the lack of top ranked high school teams from the state? How about not producing one legitimate superstar in the last generation? How about the rapidly declining rate of NY high school players that are in the NBA now, especially compared to how populated the state is... These are all basic telling signs. NY used to be a basketball mecca for producing NBA talent. It was dominant compared to everywhere else. It is not anymore, and that seems like an unbiased fact based on the evidence provided. Either other areas have caught up for various reasons, or NY basketball has actually declined, or both. It's not a biased agenda from the writer, it's an article which acknowledges the trends and offers possible theories for why it's gotten to this point. I'm not sure what there is to disagree with in terms of the message of the article. So I'm not sure why you think it's so biased or untrue.

Unless you believe that NY is still the mecca of basketball it once was, and that what the writer is suggesting is wrong, or that his points are incorrect... In which case I'd like to see your "raw data"

Producing talent was 1 iota of what labeled NYC the Mecca.

I think this can easily be chalked up to the sport becoming more popular across the globe, instead of hoops junkies only residing in NYC, people are picking up a bball everywhere.

smith&wesson
08-01-2014, 04:13 PM
Alot of great talent coming out of Toronto Canada these days.

sixer04fan
08-01-2014, 04:15 PM
Everyone calls NYC the Mecca instead of NY hater fans. Every single top tier basketball player acknowledges it as such and breeding talent was never the reason it was called the Mecca. Do your homework on the history. Its bigger than the present.

Seems pretty clear to me, basketball has become much bigger Nationally and Globally and the regional talent pools are representing that.


Producing talent was 1 iota of what labeled NYC the Mecca.

I think this can easily be chalked up to the sport becoming more popular across the globe, instead of hoops junkies only residing in NYC, people are picking up a bball everywhere.

The history proves that it used to be the mecca for producing talent also, though. But it just plainly isn't anymore, partly because of your 2nd point, yes. That's what the article is saying.

D-Leethal
08-01-2014, 04:16 PM
The sport branching off and talent popping up in every state doesn't change the fact that NYC is the Mecca of basketball, its deeply engrained into the pulse of the city. It doesn't have to do with the top prospects, the top high schools, basketball is bigger than that and if you can't understand that, you obviously don't understand why NYC is the Mecca.

Seems to me every NBA player who plays the Knicks and acknowledges MSG as the best arena to play and NYC as the Mecca understands it though.

D-Leethal
08-01-2014, 04:17 PM
The history proves that it used to be the mecca for producing talent also, though. But it just plainly isn't anymore, partly because of your 2nd point, yes. That's what the article is saying.

Simple logic should be able to tell you that as the sport grows, the talent pools will branch off.

D-Leethal
08-01-2014, 04:18 PM
Is Vegas not the fight capital of the world because they don't produce the best fighers?

And can we get a thread to protect Knicks fans? My feelings are getting hurt.

AddiX
08-01-2014, 04:21 PM
The raw numbers? Like what, you want him to supply spreadsheets or something? It's a Grantland article not a stat class. It doesn't make it biased.

How about the lack of top ranked high school teams from the state? How about not producing one legitimate superstar in the last generation? How about the rapidly declining rate of NY high school players that are in the NBA now, especially compared to how populated the state is... These are all basic telling signs. NY used to be a basketball mecca for producing NBA talent. It was dominant compared to everywhere else. It is not anymore, and that seems like an unbiased fact based on the evidence provided. Either other areas have caught up for various reasons, or NY basketball has actually declined, or both. It's not a biased agenda from the writer, it's an article which acknowledges the trends and offers possible theories for why it's gotten to this point. I'm not sure what there is to disagree with in terms of the message of the article. So I'm not sure why you think it's so biased or untrue.

Unless you believe that NY is still the mecca of basketball it once was, and that what the writer is suggesting is wrong, or that his points are incorrect... In which case I'd like to see your "raw data"

Yes, when you supply stats, your suppose to supply the raw data, thats how journalism works genius.

For instance per capita, maryland supplies the most d1 college players.

Does that mean they are the best basketball state in the world?

Or is it ny who supplies the most overall d1 players?

I dunno, I don't really care. Most of these threads are full of butt hurt Chicago people who still want to prove there state is as good as ny.

In any case this article, is top notch trash.

Kashmir13579
08-01-2014, 04:24 PM
It's still the Mecca.

Kashmir13579
08-01-2014, 04:28 PM
Most of the haters go "lulz, how could MSG da mekka, da Knicks dun win nuttin' in 40 yrs lulzzzz"

HoodedSB
08-01-2014, 04:28 PM
Indianans? When has that ever been a word?

What else do you call people from indiana though? Indians?

sixer04fan
08-01-2014, 04:31 PM
Addix and d-lethal... NY used to produce the best basketball talent in the world. It does not anymore. That's pretty much undeniable based on the evidence we have and that's the only point I'm making.

Whatever the reason for that is, whether or not it should still be called the Mecca, and whatever other issues you have with the subject of NY basketball are irrelevant to me. I'm not here to debate those other points and I probably agree with you on those subjects anyways.

MELO 15
08-01-2014, 04:35 PM
Call me crazy, but I think Melo is from NY!

Goose17
08-01-2014, 04:43 PM
So which states or cities are considered to be producing the most talent now?

HoodedSB
08-01-2014, 04:43 PM
The "mecca of basketball" is such a pretentious label anyway. It suggests that basketball fans the world over are drawn to new york, and that is just not true at all. People are drawn to new york for many other reasons, but it's not like "visiting rucker park" is necessarily on the bucket list for your average NBA fan.

So which states or cities are considered to be producing the most talent now?
Probably California, specifically LA/Orange county, just like most other sports outside of hockey. Massive population and year round sports weather will do that.

GREATNESS ONE
08-01-2014, 04:50 PM
Did you have to quote the OP when you were the first to respond?



And can we get a thread to protect Knicks fans? My feelings are getting hurt.

:laugh2:

Goose17
08-01-2014, 04:51 PM
It's still the Mecca.

Based on?

Goose17
08-01-2014, 04:54 PM
The "mecca of basketball" is such a pretentious label anyway. It suggests that basketball fans the world over are drawn to new york, and that is just not true at all. People are drawn to new york for many other reasons, but it's not like "visiting rucker park" is necessarily on the bucket list for your average NBA fan.

Probably California, specifically LA/Orange county, just like most other sports outside of hockey. Massive population and year round sports weather will do that.

Well I mean I know UCLA etc have provided a lot of talent but is it actually people from Cali? Or just people going to those universities?

I mean, I know Oakland has always had a rep for guards.

jimm120
08-01-2014, 04:57 PM
Question is if the actual # has fallen off dramatically OR if its that other places are rising.

sixer04fan
08-01-2014, 05:00 PM
So which states or cities are considered to be producing the most talent now?

IMO it's the DC/Baltimore area or LA.

HoodedSB
08-01-2014, 05:12 PM
Well I mean I know UCLA etc have provided a lot of talent but is it actually people from Cali? Or just people going to those universities?
Most of them are in state, but keep in mind lots of the young talent from the local high schools also attends schools out of state. Paul Pierce went to kansas, andre miller played at utah, gilbert arenas at arizona, but yeah most of the top guys do play for UCLA/USC.

sixer04fan
08-01-2014, 05:13 PM
Question is if the actual # has fallen off dramatically OR if its that other places are rising.

Both

Iron24th
08-01-2014, 05:20 PM
Did you have to quote the OP when you were the first to respond?

:laugh:

kingkenny01
08-01-2014, 05:33 PM
Chicago is the new Mecca of basketball derrick rose, Jabari Parker, anthony Davis, Evan turner, Dwayne wade, Kevin Garnett (kind of), shawn Marion, Michael finely
Some young and up and coming guys: jahlil okafor or cliff Alexander
NYC has it's place in basketball history but it's not producing at Chicago's level

sixer04fan
08-01-2014, 05:40 PM
Evan Turner hahaha

InRoseWeTrust
08-01-2014, 05:40 PM
Call me crazy, but I think Melo is from NY!

You're crazy.

LongIslandIcedZ
08-01-2014, 05:41 PM
I still consider NY to be a basketball town. I don't know if it will happen in my life time, but I think a Knicks championship would be more well received than Giants or Yanks.

The sport is getting way more popular. With more popularity comes branching out. Soccer, hockey and lacrosse have all gotten more popular recently and It's spreading everywhere.

I would like to see a better study of this with more numbers, it certainly carries the potential to be an interesting topic. St. John's being mediocre certainly doesn't help.

InRoseWeTrust
08-01-2014, 05:49 PM
On the subject, NYC is not the mecca of basketball. There really isn't any substantive thing anyone can say to support that statement in 2014.

The truth is, there really isn't a mecca of basketball anymore. For much of what has already been said in this thread, talent is spread and coming from all over. Dynasties have popped up all over the country. There simply is not a 'holy land' of the sport.

Kashmir13579
08-01-2014, 05:52 PM
Based on? I know why. I don't talk out of my arse. burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise.

Kashmir13579
08-01-2014, 05:54 PM
On the subject, NYC is not the mecca of basketball. There really isn't any substantive thing anyone can say to support that statement in 2014.

The truth is, there really isn't a mecca of basketball anymore. For much of what has already been said in this thread, talent is spread and coming from all over. Dynasties have popped up all over the country. There simply is not a 'holy land' of the sport. Indiana and New York City. Facts. Deal with it.

InRoseWeTrust
08-01-2014, 05:54 PM
I know why. I don't talk out of my arse. burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise.

Thank god you're not a lawyer.

KnickaBocka.44
08-01-2014, 06:10 PM
I think the issue here is that people don't understand the meaning of "mecca".

A "mecca" does not change locations. NY will always be the mecca of basketball because of the fact that the culture of basketball is engrained within the city itself. NY gave us streetball, the way we know it today. NY is the home of "The World's Most Famous Arena". NY is the birthplace of hip-hop, which has become undeniably intertwined with the culture of basketball as well. Red Auerbach, Michael Jordan, Kareem, Dr. J....the list of greats from NY goes on and on.

Other places may produce more NBA players now and in the future, but the history of basketball will always come back to New York...and that is why it is, and will always be, the Mecca of Basketball.,

abe_froman
08-01-2014, 06:19 PM
I think the issue here is that people don't understand the meaning of "mecca".

A "mecca" does not change locations. NY will always be the mecca of basketball because of the fact that the culture of basketball is engrained within the city itself. NY gave us streetball, the way we know it today. NY is the home of "The World's Most Famous Arena". NY is the birthplace of hip-hop, which has become undeniably intertwined with the culture of basketball as well. Red Auerbach, Michael Jordan, Kareem, Dr. J....the list of greats from NY goes on and on.

Other places may produce more NBA players now and in the future, but the history of basketball will always come back to New York...and that is why it is, and will always be, the Mecca of Basketball.,

i dont think you can count him,i mean he was born there but moved to n.c. right after he was born and lots of places have greats that can rival that(indy: john wooden,oscar robertson,bird,ect;chi-sloan,wade,thomas,mikan,ect.;philly-kobe,wilt;andon,and on).many different places have contributed to the game.i mean f you want to get to importance than no place will ever rival springfield ,ma,where the game was invented

PurpleLynch
08-01-2014, 06:23 PM
I think bball is too much expanded right now to consider any city a "Mecca" of basketball,relating to the production of general talent.
USA is still the country where the best crop of talent grows,but a lot of realities like Europe and Africa are arising,plus China is embracing this sport as favourite along with soccer.
I think NY can still be labeled as "Mecca" in terms of bball's culture though.

MonroeFAN
08-01-2014, 06:25 PM
thank you for someone pointing out that NYC has been beyond average in regards to talent...
chicago and LA have produced far superior talent since NYC's golden era in the 70's
NYC bball isnt the Mecca of anything except calling themselves the mecca

Everyone calls NYC the Mecca outside of your typical NY haters. Every single top tier basketball player acknowledges it as such and breeding talent was never the reason it was called the Mecca. Do your homework on the history. Its bigger than the present.

Seems pretty clear to me, basketball has become much bigger Nationally and Globally and the regional talent pools are representing that.

I don't agree with this at all. I love Ny, but it's the Mecca for bs street ball. When the NBA started to require one year of school is around when it lost its appeal. It's called being exposed, but the league has changed as well.

InRoseWeTrust
08-01-2014, 06:29 PM
Indiana and New York City. Facts. Deal with it.

What are the "facts" you're alluding to? You don't get to say that, then refuse to state them.

InRoseWeTrust
08-01-2014, 06:33 PM
I think the issue here is that people don't understand the meaning of "mecca".

A "mecca" does not change locations. NY will always be the mecca of basketball because of the fact that the culture of basketball is engrained within the city itself. NY gave us streetball, the way we know it today. NY is the home of "The World's Most Famous Arena". NY is the birthplace of hip-hop, which has become undeniably intertwined with the culture of basketball as well. Red Auerbach, Michael Jordan, Kareem, Dr. J....the list of greats from NY goes on and on.

Other places may produce more NBA players now and in the future, but the history of basketball will always come back to New York...and that is why it is, and will always be, the Mecca of Basketball.,

Couple of thoughts here:

(1) MJ isn't a New Yorker. He moved to North Carolina before he could speak in complete sentences.

(2) The hip hop point is really a stretch.

(3) To be accurate, Naismith invented basketball in Massachusetts, so no, the history of basketball does not always come back to New York.

Crackadalic
08-01-2014, 07:34 PM
If you want to be technical MSG is considered the Mecca of basketball not NY in the sense.

KnickaBocka.44
08-02-2014, 01:37 AM
Couple of thoughts here:

(1) MJ isn't a New Yorker. He moved to North Carolina before he could speak in complete sentences.

(2) The hip hop point is really a stretch.

(3) To be accurate, Naismith invented basketball in Massachusetts, so no, the history of basketball does not always come back to New York.

Jordan was born in Brooklyn. That is a fact.

ILLUSIONIST^248
08-02-2014, 01:39 AM
(null)This is correct. In all honesty, NY has become a joke.

ILLUSIONIST^248
08-02-2014, 01:43 AM
Based on? I know why. I don't talk out of my arse. burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise.
Lol, NY is laughable now, we're not in the 70's anymore.

DODGERS&LAKERS
08-02-2014, 02:30 AM
I think basketball is more important to LA than it is to NY. If you go on the ESPN radio app you can listen to both cities stations. Basketball is all we talk about in LA. Even when the Dodgers are in the playoffs hunt, the Kings are winning Stanley Cups, the Angels have the second best record in baseball, USC and UCLA football seasons about to begin, both sports stations pretty much would rather talk about the Lakers working out Michael Beasley.

In NY they have been talking Giants and Yankees for weeks withh very little mention of anything basketball.

The audience dictates what they talk about. The stations know what gets them ratings so they talk about what's important to that region. Basketball is number one in LA. Not New York.

New York has Ruckers, LA has Venice. Not sure what summer leagues NY has but LA had the Drew league. LA has the Lakers and UCLA who respectively are the most successful and we'll known teams in their respective leagues. NY has the 40 year old virgin Knicks and.......... St. John's?

JustinTime
08-02-2014, 02:32 AM
I think the real reason is that Toronto's poor are more privledged than NY's poor due to social services which exist in Canada and not in the US.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 05:08 AM
Jordan was born in Brooklyn. That is a fact.

But he spent the majority of his life in North Carolina. Doesn't matter where you were born, it's where you lived.

If you are born in New York, move when you are 1-2 years old and live the next twenty years of your life in one city, you're not from NY.

This is like people that call Irving Australian because he was born there, and yet has spent the last twenty years of his life in America.

jp611
08-02-2014, 06:00 AM
I heard they signed Marc Gasol for next season and won the 2015-2016 NBA Championship. :confused:

effen5
08-02-2014, 08:33 AM
Jordan was born in Brooklyn. That is a fact.

He didn't play basketball in new york. FACT

KnickFanSince91
08-02-2014, 09:22 AM
The article glossed over the most important factor in the entire decline in NY kids in the NBA- our kids have been grossly undeserved by the PSAL & CHSAL, the schools and their coaches in terms of getting NCAA eligible over the past 15 years. You see the decline across all sports around here because the players aren't meeting graduation requirements or for the clearing house.

One of the reasons you aren't finding state ranked schools from the city is the high school leagues rules and restrictions on coaching. Other leagues across the state and out of state attract more coaching talent, making their leagues more competitive, which in turn increases the rankings and gets scouts attention. The best players want to learn from and play for the best coaches which is why their parents are putting them in school in NJ and CT.

The PSAL also limits it's teams from participating in state tournaments and such and playing in non league games so the exposure isn't there. There's nothing attractive about nyc high school sports for an elite talent. I coach football for hs aged kids and had to send two to CT in order for them to get d1 offers (according to this article, they wouldn't count as a NY product since they didn't play one year here although they were born and live here). It's just a frustrating and sad situation overall how bureaucracy and corruption is holding so many of these talented kids back.

Abel Ye
08-02-2014, 09:56 AM
I heard they signed Marc Gasol for next season and won the 2015-2016 NBA Championship. :confused:

:facepalm:

2-ONE-5
08-02-2014, 10:49 AM
But he spent the majority of his life in North Carolina. Doesn't matter where you were born, it's where you lived.

If you are born in New York, move when you are 1-2 years old and live the next twenty years of your life in one city, you're not from NY.

This is like people that call Irving Australian because he was born there, and yet has spent the last twenty years of his life in America.

exactly. same with Kobe being born in Italy

AddiX
08-02-2014, 12:13 PM
We claiming MJ, get over it...

2-ONE-5
08-02-2014, 12:29 PM
whatever you new yorkers gotta do hold on to the mecca title.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 12:42 PM
Chris Mullin is the best NY baller anyway.

sixer04fan
08-02-2014, 01:00 PM
We claiming MJ, get over it...

Well that's pretty sad. MJ certainly doesn't claim NY and never played basketball there either. Unless you want to claim every player that ever dribbled a basketball within NY state lines.

Are these the kinds of things you cling to that add up to NY still being "the Mecca"?

AddiX
08-02-2014, 01:14 PM
Well that's pretty sad. MJ certainly doesn't claim NY and never played basketball there either. Unless you want to claim every player that ever dribbled a basketball within NY state lines.

Are these the kinds of things you cling to that add up to NY still being "the Mecca"?

It was a joke, I'm not a loser enough to actually care or believe that 1 player, or a few players can represent an entire state as far as basketball talent goes.

The Mecca isn't even a term used to describe ny as the best at basketball, it has a historical significant, you should research it if your going to run your mouth.

And besides, we still supply the most D1 basketball players.

So yeah, we still "The Mecca".

Kick rocks kid.

DoMeFavors
08-02-2014, 01:33 PM
There's not really any real research done here by the author.

Mostly opinion based. Or a few quotes from random ballers.

Author pretty much says, that its not that ny doesn't have the talent, its that most of them leave to go somewhere they can develop without the distractions of the city.

He also points to the sport growing, tries to point to the fact canada has produced so many top picks recently.

Are we really going to sit here and say canada is the best basketball country in the world because of that?

No, were not, its a huge sport, lot of places are good at it. End of story.

They should get players that are good minded and not immature and easily distracted. Iman Shumpert,JR Smith fit that mold. You need good character guys. Especially JR has had a lot of problems outside the court like partying late into night on game days.

Kaner
08-02-2014, 01:48 PM
It was a joke, I'm not a loser enough to actually care or believe that 1 player, or a few players can represent an entire state as far as basketball talent goes.

The Mecca isn't even a term used to describe ny as the best at basketball, it has a historical significant, you should research it if your going to run your mouth.

And besides, we still supply the most D1 basketball players.

So yeah, we still "The Mecca".

Kick rocks kid.

Isn't it being called the Mecca of Basketball just a complete misnomer though of its history? It was 'The Mecca', as am sure you know, because of Boxing and all the historic bouts that were fought there so it started being called the 'Mecca of Boxing' gaining the nickname 'The Mecca' and then years later the media and some basketball players started calling it 'The Mecca of Basketball' for really no good historical reason.

KnickaBocka.44
08-02-2014, 01:54 PM
But he spent the majority of his life in North Carolina. Doesn't matter where you were born, it's where you lived.

If you are born in New York, move when you are 1-2 years old and live the next twenty years of your life in one city, you're not from NY.

This is like people that call Irving Australian because he was born there, and yet has spent the last twenty years of his life in America.

Okay.

sixer04fan
08-02-2014, 01:55 PM
It was a joke, I'm not a loser enough to actually care or believe that 1 player, or a few players can represent an entire state as far as basketball talent goes.

The Mecca isn't even a term used to describe ny as the best at basketball, it has a historical significant, you should research it if your going to run your mouth.

And besides, we still supply the most D1 basketball players.

So yeah, we still "The Mecca".

Kick rocks kid.

Haha yeah, questioning what came off as a very desperate statement and it's implications with what others are saying is "running my mouth." Yikes. I must have really struck a nerve there.

KnickaBocka.44
08-02-2014, 02:00 PM
They should get players that are good minded and not immature and easily distracted. Iman Shumpert,JR Smith fit that mold. You need good character guys. Especially JR has had a lot of problems outside the court like partying late into night on game days.

We aren't talking about guys who play for the Knicks.....you can't keep their name out of your mouth tho, must like the tatste.

D-Leethal
08-02-2014, 02:29 PM
It was a joke, I'm not a loser enough to actually care or believe that 1 player, or a few players can represent an entire state as far as basketball talent goes.

The Mecca isn't even a term used to describe ny as the best at basketball, it has a historical significant, you should research it if your going to run your mouth.

And besides, we still supply the most D1 basketball players.

So yeah, we still "The Mecca".

Kick rocks kid.

Isn't it being called the Mecca of Basketball just a complete misnomer though of its history? It was 'The Mecca', as am sure you know, because of Boxing and all the historic bouts that were fought there so it started being called the 'Mecca of Boxing' gaining the nickname 'The Mecca' and then years later the media and some basketball players started calling it 'The Mecca of Basketball' for really no good historical reason.

Lol. You just completely made that up.

Kaner
08-02-2014, 02:38 PM
Lol. You just completely made that up.

It was considered the Mecca of boxing decades before it started being called the mecca of basketball.

D-Leethal
08-02-2014, 02:50 PM
Lol. You just completely made that up.

It was considered the Mecca of boxing decades before it started being called the mecca of basketball.

Sorry guy, that was never a label. Every star that comes to MSG recognizes it for what it is, butthurt computer nobodies won't change that.

Kaner
08-02-2014, 02:55 PM
Sorry guy, that was never a label. Every star that comes to MSG recognizes it for what it is, butthurt computer nobodies won't change that.

Okay bud, you mad? http://www.boxing.com/the_mecca_of_boxing.html

Goose17
08-02-2014, 02:57 PM
Sorry guy, that was never a label. Every star that comes to MSG recognizes it for what it is, butthurt computer nobodies won't change that.

Sorry but it was a label, long before it belonged to basketball.

D-Leethal
08-02-2014, 02:57 PM
Sorry guy, that was never a label. Every star that comes to MSG recognizes it for what it is, butthurt computer nobodies won't change that.

Okay bud, you mad? http://www.boxing.com/the_mecca_of_boxing.html

An article doesnt warrant a label.

Kaner
08-02-2014, 02:59 PM
An article doesnt warrant a label.

No, but 80+ years of boxing history does.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 02:59 PM
An article doesnt warrant a label.

You can't be serious? How can you be so clueless about this.

D-Leethal
08-02-2014, 03:00 PM
Sorry guy, that was never a label. Every star that comes to MSG recognizes it for what it is, butthurt computer nobodies won't change that.

Sorry but it was a label, long before it belonged to basketball.

MSG was holding the NIT as long as college basketball has been around. I wouldn't say before let alone long before.

D-Leethal
08-02-2014, 03:02 PM
An article doesnt warrant a label.

You can't be serious? How can you be so clueless about this.

Im not saying its not the venue where the most legendary bouts of all time went down, I'm saying its not commonly referred to as the Mecca of Boxing.

NYC is the Mecca, not MSG. Basketball is bigger than the NBA.

TheNumber37
08-02-2014, 03:04 PM
Can Phil, Fish and Melo give it a go before they write this. Surely they will say it is back

D-Leethal
08-02-2014, 03:04 PM
You can come up with all the reasons in the world why it shouldn't be referred to as such, doesnt change the fact that it is, and your opinion on the matter will never change that.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 03:06 PM
An article doesnt warrant a label.

http://www.insidehboboxing.com/inside/2014/6/5/msg-the-mecca-of-boxing

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A39586242

http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=328069


Use Google. It has long been referred to as the Mecca of Boxing.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 03:08 PM
Sorry guy, that was never a label. Every star that comes to MSG recognizes it for what it is, butthurt computer nobodies won't change that.

You're the only butt hurt person here. Must be the only new yorker in existence that doesn't know anything about MSG or its history lmao.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 03:09 PM
http://www.thegarden.com/sporting-events/boxing.html

They even refer to it as the Mecca of basketball on their official website. Smh
..

D-Leethal
08-02-2014, 03:09 PM
Sorry guy, that was never a label. Every star that comes to MSG recognizes it for what it is, butthurt computer nobodies won't change that.

You're the only butt hurt person here. Must be the only new yorker in existence that doesn't know anything about MSG or its history lmao.

Scrambling for reasons to discount what has been referred to as the Mecca by the greatest players to ever play = butthurt.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 03:11 PM
Scrambling for reasons to discount what has been referred to as the Mecca by the greatest players to ever play = butthurt.

Scrambling for excuses because you don't know the history of your own city = butt hurt.

meloman1592
08-02-2014, 03:11 PM
Is carmelo not from ny? Kemba, lance, noah. Is that not considered talent?

D-Leethal
08-02-2014, 03:12 PM
Scrambling for reasons to discount what has been referred to as the Mecca by the greatest players to ever play = butthurt.

Scrambling for excuses because you don't know the history of your own city = butt hurt.

I dont need an excuse to discount the notion that The Mecca of Basketball label is nothing more than an extension of The Mecca of Boxing label. You fabricated that imaginary parallel yourself.

D-Leethal
08-02-2014, 03:14 PM
NYC still breeds more D1 talent than any other city if im not mistaken.

Basketball is bigger than the NBA. Basketball is ingrained into the pulse of NYC like no other city. It will always be that way, time to just accept that.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 03:16 PM
I dont need an excuse to discount the notion that The Mecca of Basketball label is nothing more than an extension of The Mecca of Boxing label. You fabricated that imaginary parallel yourself.

No. MSG was referred to as the Mecca of Basketball. Later, N.Y started being referred to as the Mecca of Basketball.

Fact.

End of.

KnickaBocka.44
08-02-2014, 03:17 PM
http://www.thegarden.com/sporting-events/boxing.html

They even refer to it as the Mecca of basketball on their official website. Smh
..

That's MSG, not NYC. MSG=Mecca of Boxing. NYC=Mecca of Basketball.

D-Leethal
08-02-2014, 03:17 PM
I dont need an excuse to discount the notion that The Mecca of Basketball label is nothing more than an extension of The Mecca of Boxing label. You fabricated that imaginary parallel yourself.

No. MSG was referred to as the Mecca of Basketball. Later, N.Y started being referred to as the Mecca of Basketball.

Fact.

End of.

Prove it. Do you know anything about the history of the NIT?

Goose17
08-02-2014, 03:18 PM
Basketball is bigger than the NBA. Basketball is ingrained into the pulse of NYC like no other city. It will always be that way, time to just accept that.

You seem quite passionate about a city you clearly know nothing about.

And "like no other city"? I would disagree. As would most according to that article.

Especially considering your city only ever cared about one side of basketball, offense.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 03:18 PM
That's MSG, not NYC. MSG=Mecca of Boxing. NYC=Mecca of Basketball.

I never said otherwise.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 03:19 PM
Prove it. Do you know anything about the history of the NIT?

Do you know anything about the history of MSG or your City in general outside of basketball? ...oops. My bad. We've already established that you don't.

KnickaBocka.44
08-02-2014, 03:20 PM
You seem quite passionate about a city you clearly know nothing about.

And "like no other city"? I would disagree. As would most according to that article.

Especially considering your city only ever cared about one side of basketball, offense.

You are so ridiculous claiming an entire city only cares about offense when our great teams of the 90's were built on defense.

D-Leethal
08-02-2014, 03:20 PM
Basketball is bigger than the NBA. Basketball is ingrained into the pulse of NYC like no other city. It will always be that way, time to just accept that.

You seem quite passionate about a city you clearly know nothing about.

And "like no other city"? I would disagree. As would most according to that article.

Especially considering your city only ever cared about one side of basketball, offense.

What? Offense?

An article accounts for "most"?

Superstars that have played there for generations tend to disagree.

D-Leethal
08-02-2014, 03:22 PM
Prove it. Do you know anything about the history of the NIT?

Do you know anything about the history of MSG or your City in general outside of basketball? ...oops. My bad. We've already established that you don't.

Looks like you have lost your argument if you cant back any of your claims pertinent to this thread.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 03:24 PM
Looks like you have lost your argument if you cant back any of your claims pertinent to this thread.

Lol... dude you lost argument pages ago when you displayed such ignorance about your city that you didn't even know MSG was the Mecca of Boxing.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 03:25 PM
You are so ridiculous claiming an entire city only cares about offense when our great teams of the 90's were built on defense.

My experience of New York as the basketball mecca is the streetball. Flashy, great handles, volume scorers. No defense.

D-Leethal
08-02-2014, 03:31 PM
Looks like you have lost your argument if you cant back any of your claims pertinent to this thread.

Lol... dude you lost argument pages ago when you displayed such ignorance about your city that you didn't even know MSG was the Mecca of Boxing.

Ok. MSG is the Mecca of Boxing. What exactly does that have to do with anything again?

D-Leethal
08-02-2014, 03:32 PM
You are so ridiculous claiming an entire city only cares about offense when our great teams of the 90's were built on defense.

My experience of New York as the basketball mecca is the streetball. Flashy, great handles, volume scorers. No defense.

Lol. Take a hard foul on an NYC court and tell me its all flash. Your experience means absolutely nothing.

D-Leethal
08-02-2014, 03:33 PM
I bet Ron Artest has a very different view of NYC streetball than you do.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 03:34 PM
Ok. MSG is the Mecca of Boxing. What exactly does that have to do with anything again?

From that the phrase "mecca of basketball" was coined for the city.

It's good that you are admitting you were wrong though. Credit where it's due. Now we can move on.

Kashmir13579
08-02-2014, 03:34 PM
Lol every time this thread comes about.. so many dummies..

D-Leethal
08-02-2014, 03:35 PM
Ok. MSG is the Mecca of Boxing. What exactly does that have to do with anything again?

From that the phrase "mecca of basketball" was coined for the city.

It's good that you are admitting you were wrong though. Credit where it's due. Now we can move on.

That parallel your drawing was fabricated in your head. Until you can prove that, you lose.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 03:40 PM
I bet Ron Artest has a very different view of NYC streetball than you do.

Maybe.

My impressions are based on The Jet, Pee Wee Kirkland, Fly Williams, Jack Ryan and obviously Alston etc.

Goose17
08-02-2014, 03:41 PM
That parallel your drawing was fabricated in your head. Until you can prove that, you lose.

You think it's just a coincidence?

imagesrdecievin
08-02-2014, 04:35 PM
NY is still the Mecca of basketball - but it damn sure ain't the Rome of basketball anymore.

RLundi
08-02-2014, 06:03 PM
Did you have to quote the OP when you were the first to respond?

:laugh2:

KingsOfQueens
08-02-2014, 09:19 PM
You seem quite passionate about a city you clearly know nothing about.

And "like no other city"? I would disagree. As would most according to that article.

Especially considering your city only ever cared about one side of basketball, offense.

Lmao. Clearly you know nothing.

GiantsSwaGG
08-02-2014, 09:32 PM
:facepalm:

blahblahyoutoo
08-03-2014, 11:19 AM
Call me crazy, but I think Melo is from NY!

melo didn't pick up bball until he moved to baltimore.

blahblahyoutoo
08-03-2014, 11:24 AM
Jordan was born in Brooklyn. That is a fact.

so? he has 0 recollection of brooklyn. if you axe him, he'd probably not identify himself as a ny'er. your formative years are what matters.

KnickaBocka.44
08-03-2014, 04:42 PM
so? he has 0 recollection of brooklyn. if you axe him, he'd probably not identify himself as a ny'er. your formative years are what matters.

That's assault, brotha.

D-Leethal
08-03-2014, 06:32 PM
You think it's just a coincidence?

I don't know for sure your label came first given the deep rooted history of hoops in NY since the 30s let alone one being coincidental of the other.

kingkenny01
08-03-2014, 06:50 PM
The real Mecca is in Saudi Arabia technically, so technically Saudi Arabia is the Mecca of basketball lol