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GoBullsGo
07-28-2014, 10:41 PM
I like what MJ is doing with that franchise. It all starts with bringing back the name, logo, colors. They have a very interesting core in place with Al and Kemba. Definite prospects in Zeller and Kidd. Then there are the newbies Lance and Marvin Williams. I think Williams can have a huge season. It'll be interesting to see what they do with Henderson...he's too good to be a bench player, I think he'll be dealt. Ideally something along the lines of -

OKC - Gary Neal, Gerald Henderson, Bismack Biyombo, Jeremy Taylor
CHA - Kendrick Perkins, Nick Collison, Jeremy Lamb, Andre Roberson

C - Kendrick Perkins / Cody Zeller/
F - Al Jefferson / Nick Collison / Noah Vonleh
F - Marvin Williams / Michael Kidd-Glichrist / Andre Roberson
G - Lance Stephenson / Jeremy Lamb
G - Kemba Walker / Brian Roberts / Jannero Pargo


Any other Henderson deals that you think may go down? Finally, where do you rank the Hornets in the east based on their current roster or if a trade like the one above where to happen?

NBA_Starter
07-28-2014, 10:56 PM
Henderson's value to the rest of the league appears to be low, I think we will keep him for the bench. We are a top 4-5 seed in the East easily right now.

NYKnickFanatic
07-28-2014, 11:18 PM
Henderson's value to the rest of the league appears to be low, I think we will keep him for the bench. We are a top 4-5 seed in the East easily right now.

Lol, easily?

RLundi
07-28-2014, 11:27 PM
Lol that's what I said. The Hornets are for sure a playoff team but

Cavs
Bulls
Pacers
Wizards
Raptors

are obviously ahead of them, and

Heat
Hawks

are right there with the Hornets, so I don't know about "easily."

NYKnickFanatic
07-28-2014, 11:29 PM
Lol that's what I said. The Hornets are for sure a playoff team but

Cavs
Bulls
Pacers
Wizards
Raptors

are obviously ahead of them, and

Heat
Hawks

are right there with the Hornets, so I don't know about "easily."

Agreed, i feel like they will make the playoffs but don't think they will be top five, "easily".

GoBullsGo
07-28-2014, 11:36 PM
As of right now:

Bulls
Cavs
Pacers
Heat
Hornets
Wizards

DR_1
07-28-2014, 11:49 PM
I've got:

Bulls
Cavs
Wizards
Raptors
Hornets - I do agree that they will be top 5 NBA Starter, they are a much deeper team and I really like what MJ and Cho are building, both culture wise and basketball wise

D-Leethal
07-29-2014, 12:20 AM
I don't even think the Hornets make the playoffs next year.

SILVER SEAVER
07-29-2014, 01:05 AM
Charlotte is on the rise and if people gave Michael time to grow into this new aspect of his life you will see what happens when you learn from your mistakes and improve on them. Michael knows talent. I know he will forever be crucified for Kwame Brown and Adam Morrison but by actually making those mistakes and endure the ridicule he faced it made him the wiser. This team will only surge and make life miserable for teams in the east and maybe in another season or two can become legitimate contenders for the eastern crown. I'm rooting for M.J. to build this from the ground up and reap the rewards of his labor.

Chronz
07-29-2014, 01:20 AM
Charlotte is on the rise and if people gave Michael time to grow into this new aspect of his life you will see what happens when you learn from your mistakes and improve on them. Michael knows talent. I know he will forever be crucified for Kwame Brown and Adam Morrison but by actually making those mistakes and endure the ridicule he faced it made him the wiser. This team will only surge and make life miserable for teams in the east and maybe in another season or two can become legitimate contenders for the eastern crown. I'm rooting for M.J. to build this from the ground up and reap the rewards of his labor.

MJ is the face, Rich Cho is the brain behind Charlotte. What MJ has learned is to not trust his gut above all.

Iron24th
07-29-2014, 01:24 AM
MJ took over charlotte's team in 2006, we can't ignore it's been 8 years that he sucks as the head of the operations, this is the first time in 8 years that he might have a talented team but still they might do nothing, so let's wait before we all congrat him.

Ebbs
07-29-2014, 01:24 AM
^. MJ publicly stated James Worthy was his greatest SF of all time..

IndyRealist
07-29-2014, 01:42 AM
MJ is the face, Rich Cho is the brain behind Charlotte. What MJ has learned is to not trust his gut above all.

THIS. Rich Cho got them into the playoffs.

SILVER SEAVER
07-29-2014, 01:57 AM
MJ is the face, Rich Cho is the brain behind Charlotte. What MJ has learned is to not trust his gut above all.

At least MJ learned early in his tenure as opposed to Dolan in New York who can't get out of his own way. Like in football Pat Bowlen of the Broncos......great owner but lets the masterminds build the team up. Sometimes being a great owner is listening to the smart people you surround yourself with who have a better understanding of talent. But MJ is still learning in all of this.

chitownbulls
07-29-2014, 02:42 AM
I think the Hornets will be competing with the Heat for the division title, and if Stephenson grows in his starter position like I expect him to, they are definitely the 4th or 5th seed, most likely making it to the 2nd round. I am very high on their roster, because I feel a Kemba, Lance, and Jefferson combo can do a lot damage in the East.

2-ONE-5
07-29-2014, 09:05 AM
hornets are going in the right direction but no need to deal for Perkins hes done and Marvin Williams is certainly a bench player at best currently, its more imporant to MKG out there for his defense.

2-ONE-5
07-29-2014, 09:06 AM
As of right now:

Bulls
Cavs
Pacers
Heat
Hornets
Wizards

swap the Wiz and Heat

Chronz
07-29-2014, 09:46 AM
At least MJ learned early in his tenure as opposed to Dolan in New York who can't get out of his own way. Like in football Pat Bowlen of the Broncos......great owner but lets the masterminds build the team up. Sometimes being a great owner is listening to the smart people you surround yourself with who have a better understanding of talent. But MJ is still learning in all of this.

Agreed. Hes definitely wisened up

nickdymez
07-29-2014, 12:24 PM
Why are peoole ranking the Heat so low? They lost LeBron but did a pretty good job of adding pieces. Heat should still be a top 5 team in the east

ManRam
07-29-2014, 12:27 PM
I don't even think the Hornets make the playoffs next year.

Why?

Chi StateOfMind
07-29-2014, 12:35 PM
I don't even think the Hornets make the playoffs next year.

I don't know why you think that.

Bulls
Cavs
Pacers
Heat
Wizards
Raptors

Then you have the Hawks, Nets and Hornets. I think they make the playoffs for sure but like 6 or 7 seed.

D-Leethal
07-29-2014, 12:38 PM
Why?

Because I don't think they are very good. I'm not impressed by their distribution of talent. I also am not convinced giving Lance Stephenson the keys to be your #1 perimeter scorer is a positive thing for any team. I don't think the East will be quite as bad next year and will be more even throughout and I don't think that bodes well for a team led by Kemba Walker and Al Jefferson who really only beat up on the crap teams. They were a "team on the rise" 5 years ago with an elite defense and fell off a cliff the next season. I don't think they continue to progress like a team like Indy did, because they quite simply don't have a rising star that will make the leap like PG and are led by an old post player with his fair share of injury history and a guy who before last season, never did much winning in his whole career.

I like Clifford but I think Charlotte takes a step back next year. I think they finish 4th in their division with Horford coming back and Wiz looking like they could make the jump to 50 wins. Someone also has to fall out to let Cleveland in, don't they?

D-Leethal
07-29-2014, 12:41 PM
I don't know why you think that.

Bulls
Cavs
Pacers
Heat
Wizards
Raptors

Then you have the Hawks, Nets and Hornets. I think they make the playoffs for sure but like 6 or 7 seed.

Of those 9 teams, I think the Hornets are the easiest to peg as the 9th.

IndyRealist
07-29-2014, 12:55 PM
Of those 9 teams, I think the Hornets are the easiest to peg as the 9th.

The Nets lost Paul Pierce and their coach. I'd say they are primed for a slide.

ManRam
07-29-2014, 12:58 PM
Because I don't think they are very good. I'm not impressed by their distribution of talent. I also am not convinced giving Lance Stephenson the keys to be your #1 perimeter scorer is a positive thing for any team. I don't think the East will be quite as bad next year and will be more even throughout and I don't think that bodes well for a team led by Kemba Walker and Al Jefferson who really only beat up on the crap teams. They were a "team on the rise" 5 years ago with an elite defense and fell off a cliff the next season. I don't think they continue to progress like a team like Indy did, because they quite simply don't have a rising star that will make the leap like PG and are led by an old post player with his fair share of injury history and a guy who before last season, never did much winning in his whole career.

I like Clifford but I think Charlotte takes a step back next year. I think they finish 4th in their division with Horford coming back and Wiz looking like they could make the jump to 50 wins. Someone also has to fall out to let Cleveland in, don't they?

I think it's fair to be unsure of Lance's scoring ability and what he'd do as a clear #1 option, but he's not going to be that. I don't think he's going to be going Carmelo on offense in terms of volume. Kemba's there. Al's there. Plus, he's not a very selfish player in the first place. I think it's gonna be pretty balanced offense still. At the very least, he's an upgrade at the 2 and that alone means a lot.

I don't quite get the "Al is only good vs. bad teams". Where's that come from? Dude's an amazing offensive center, perhaps the most skilled in the league. He had a very solid series against the Heat. His best game of the year came against the Heat. He had huge games against Indy, Portland, San Antonio, Chicago and so on. Not sure I get that criticism.

And sure, you can point to 2010 where they made the playoffs. But look at that roster the next season. I don't think it compares. A completely different team 5 years ago has literally zero bearing on what this team will do. Not even worth mentioning.

We'll see. They have a great coach. They play great defense. They have a balanced offense. They're still mostly young. They're pretty deep.

I really like them, but we'll see.

D-Leethal
07-29-2014, 01:01 PM
The Nets lost Paul Pierce and their coach. I'd say they are primed for a slide.

I think cutting out the past their prime guys and giving more minutes to a guy like AK47 and actual role players will bode well for the Nets. They can actually put together a roster with scorers and role players instead of 4 scorers + KG. They played best once they cut the fat out of their lineup and I think losing Pierce and possibly KG could be a good thing, even though Pierce played pretty well for them I think it will lend itself to more balance and defined roles on the roster.

I also don't think losing Kidd is a negative. He was there for one season. Thats fair though. If you put a gun to my head I'd pick Nets to make the playoffs and Charlotte to fall out.

Call me a homer but I expect the Knicks to play like the team that was trying to make the playoffs late season and finished went on a tear for the final month instead of the half dead team that would only show up to play the top teams last year. I expect them in the playoffs as well. I don't expect you guys to think that.

I see Charlotte as more of a fluke that took advantage of beating crappy teams last year than a great team on the rise.

IndyRealist
07-29-2014, 01:17 PM
I don't see the Nets doing a lot of cutting, and I'd include AK as a player past his prime (though still decent). Frankly, they are hampered by their massive contracts. If Lopez comes back that's going to cut into Plumlee's production, and he's their lone asset. They are effectively losing 3 starters (livingston, pierce, and plumlee who will go to the bench). And while you can argue the merits of Kidd, a new coach means a new system everyone has to learn. There is a lot of flux in Brooklyn. That translates to losses.

Haven't decided how I feel about the Knicks yet, but that's another thread.

chitownbulls
07-29-2014, 01:17 PM
I think it's fair to be unsure of Lance's scoring ability and what he'd do as a clear #1 option, but he's not going to be that. I don't think he's going to be going Carmelo on offense in terms of volume. Kemba's there. Al's there. Plus, he's not a very selfish player in the first place. I think it's gonna be pretty balanced offense still. At the very least, he's an upgrade at the 2 and that alone means a lot.

I don't quite get the "Al is only good vs. bad teams". Where's that come from? Dude's an amazing offensive center, perhaps the most skilled in the league. He had a very solid series against the Heat. His best game of the year came against the Heat. He had huge games against Indy, Portland, San Antonio, Chicago and so on. Not sure I get that criticism.

And sure, you can point to 2010 where they made the playoffs. But look at that roster the next season. I don't think it compares. A completely different team 5 years ago has literally zero bearing on what this team will do. Not even worth mentioning.

We'll see. They have a great coach. They play great defense. They have a balanced offense. They're still mostly young. They're pretty deep.

I really like them, but we'll see.

This. They are a very underrated defensive team, and now they are solid offensively. When you have one of the most offensively polished/skilled centers in the league paired with good perimeter player(kemba and Stephenson) along with that defense, the end result is going to be a very good team

D-Leethal
07-29-2014, 01:26 PM
I think it's fair to be unsure of Lance's scoring ability and what he'd do as a clear #1 option, but he's not going to be that. I don't think he's going to be going Carmelo on offense in terms of volume. Kemba's there. Al's there. Plus, he's not a very selfish player in the first place. I think it's gonna be pretty balanced offense still. At the very least, he's an upgrade at the 2 and that alone means a lot.

I don't quite get the "Al is only good vs. bad teams". Where's that come from? Dude's an amazing offensive center, perhaps the most skilled in the league. He had a very solid series against the Heat. His best game of the year came against the Heat. He had huge games against Indy, Portland, San Antonio, Chicago and so on. Not sure I get that criticism.

And sure, you can point to 2010 where they made the playoffs. But look at that roster the next season. I don't think it compares. A completely different team 5 years ago has literally zero bearing on what this team will do. Not even worth mentioning.

We'll see. They have a great coach. They play great defense. They have a balanced offense. They're still mostly young. They're pretty deep.

I really like them, but we'll see.

I didn't say Al beasted against bad teams, I said the Hornets beat up on a very bottom-heavy conference last year. I think there are going to be a lot of teams in the 40 win range instead of the 30 win range this year in the East and I don't think that bodes well for a team like Charlotte who really isn't all that talented compared to the rest of the pack.

Like you said - we will see. I think people are giving them way too much love as a team who will continue to rise when they could easily fall behind the rest of the pack.

And I didn't mention that 2010 team to compare rosters or anything, just to show that teams can indeed take steps back instead of assuming steps forward.

smith&wesson
07-29-2014, 01:28 PM
they are an eastern conf team Im really excited to see next season.

Kemba, Lance, & Al Jeff are a nice litte core, and their surrounding cast is pretty nice as well with williams, kidd, henderson etc. not bad at all.

a small trade or two could really define their rotation and if they click chemistry wise they could be a threat in the east.

D-Leethal
07-29-2014, 01:28 PM
And why exactly does a guy like Kemba Walker get so much love when a guy like Brandon Jennings is crucified? Kemba blows and is the same type of inefficient chucker. I think him and Lance in the backcourt spells disaster. Lance isn't exactly known for playing smart basketball and feeding the big man.

Pierzynski4Prez
07-29-2014, 01:28 PM
I think cutting out the past their prime guys and giving more minutes to a guy like AK47 and actual role players will bode well for the Nets. They can actually put together a roster with scorers and role players instead of 4 scorers + KG. They played best once they cut the fat out of their lineup and I think losing Pierce and possibly KG could be a good thing, even though Pierce played pretty well for them I think it will lend itself to more balance and defined roles on the roster.

I also don't think losing Kidd is a negative. He was there for one season. Thats fair though. If you put a gun to my head I'd pick Nets to make the playoffs and Charlotte to fall out.

Call me a homer but I expect the Knicks to play like the team that was trying to make the playoffs late season and finished went on a tear for the final month instead of the half dead team that would only show up to play the top teams last year. I expect them in the playoffs as well. I don't expect you guys to think that.

I see Charlotte as more of a fluke that took advantage of beating crappy teams last year than a great team on the rise.

Lost me right there.

D-Leethal
07-29-2014, 01:32 PM
Lost me right there.

What I meant is last year, like I told everyone, stockpiling old slow scorers and ignoring the value of role players was going to blow up in their face. It wasn't until half the scorers got hurt and they were forced to play more hustle guys, more role players that they started to play well. Cutting out the fat of past prime scorers who are slow footed and can't defend, while giving more minutes to hustle guys who want to defend and chase 50-50 balls will bode well for them.

They will have their "big 3" in place without the confusion by adding a guy like Pierce to form a half assed "big 4", they will have defined roles for role players.

D-Leethal
07-29-2014, 01:38 PM
I don't see the Nets doing a lot of cutting, and I'd include AK as a player past his prime (though still decent). Frankly, they are hampered by their massive contracts. If Lopez comes back that's going to cut into Plumlee's production, and he's their lone asset. They are effectively losing 3 starters (livingston, pierce, and plumlee who will go to the bench). And while you can argue the merits of Kidd, a new coach means a new system everyone has to learn. There is a lot of flux in Brooklyn. That translates to losses.

Haven't decided how I feel about the Knicks yet, but that's another thread.

The Nets of 2012 were better than the Nets of 2013 because they had defined roles and didn't just stockpile slowfooted scorers who can't defend, they had role players and hustle guys mixed in. The Nets of 2014 look a lot closer to the Nets of 2012 in that regard. Anyone who knew basketball knew that Cs trade was going to blow up in their face.

Also, there are millions of examples out there where a new coach means instant win streaks. Mid season or beginning of season. They have a full camp and preseason, I think thats a bit of a stretch to assume Hollins coming in will lead to Ls or a tough start. I'd say when switching a coach, the opposite happens more than the instant Ls.

I know the Nets are hampered by contracts, but I don't think that keeps them from getting a 6-8 seed in the East next year.

D-Leethal
07-29-2014, 01:39 PM
Quite frankly, I am shocked you guys here think a Kemba - Lance backcourt pairing will lead to anything but disaster.

Pierzynski4Prez
07-29-2014, 01:43 PM
What I meant is last year, like I told everyone, stockpiling old slow scorers and ignoring the value of role players was going to blow up in their face. It wasn't until half the scorers got hurt and they were forced to play more hustle guys, more role players that they started to play well. Cutting out the fat of past prime scorers who are slow footed and can't defend, while giving more minutes to hustle guys who want to defend and chase 50-50 balls will bode well for them.

They will have their "big 3" in place without the confusion by adding a guy like Pierce to form a half assed "big 4", they will have defined roles for role players.

I get that. But you said they'd be improved by playing AK47 more. He's just another past his prime player, doing very little in the time given.

GoBullsGo
07-29-2014, 01:46 PM
Hornets lack veteran presence up front.

SAC - Henderson, Biyombo
CHA - Thompson, Landry

C - Jason Thompson / Cody Zeller/ Jeremy Tyler
F - Al Jefferson / Carl Landry / Noah Vonleh
F - Marvin Williams / Michael Kidd-Glichrist /
G - Lance Stephenson / Gary Neal
G - Kemba Walker / Brian Roberts / Jannero Pargo

abe_froman
07-29-2014, 01:49 PM
Quite frankly, I am shocked you guys here think a Kemba - Lance backcourt pairing will lead to anything but disaster.

its not a perfect fit,but its not harmful either.

they have enough to be playoff team in the east

Rockice_8
07-29-2014, 02:01 PM
After CHI, CLE and WAS the rest of the east is a toss up. CHAR can easily miss the playoffs. They have a solid young team but are nowhere near contenders or even a lock for the playoffs. I'm sure ATL thinks they make the playoffs, I'm sure BK, INDY, TOR, MIA fans all think they're teams are playoff bound too. That's 8 right there. DET and NYK aren't just going to lay down.

The East is going to be tough this year.

I have CHI, CLE, WAS and TOR as close to locks as you can get. Then MIA, BK, INDY, CHAR, ATL, NYK and 6 others fighting for 4 spots. None of which without obvious question marks and none with a clear advantage over another.

dalton749
07-29-2014, 02:05 PM
As of right now:

Bulls
Cavs
Pacers
Heat
Hornets
Wizards

how can people leave out the raptors
they should be the team to beat, third seed last year and got better while the top 2 seeds got worse
after rudy gay(18 games) they were the best team in the east, 4th best in the league

Goose17
07-29-2014, 02:06 PM
It'll be interesting to see what they do with Henderson...he's too good to be a bench player

What? Dude is barely above average.

Riodagoat
07-29-2014, 02:13 PM
I wouldn't put Pacers over Heat at this point. And people may seem to be overrating Wizards a little too much too early.

ThornMo
07-29-2014, 02:23 PM
Hornets lack veteran presence up front.

SAC - Henderson, Biyombo
CHA - Thompson, Landry

C - Jason Thompson / Cody Zeller/ Jeremy Tyler
F - Al Jefferson / Carl Landry / Noah Vonleh
F - Marvin Williams / Michael Kidd-Glichrist /
G - Lance Stephenson / Gary Neal
G - Kemba Walker / Brian Roberts / Jannero Pargo

Al Jefferson is a center, Jeremy Tyler hasn't been with the team in years and plays in the D-League for the Warriors I think, and you forgot to mention Hairston. I think we're just looking for a back up center for Big Al since Biyombo isn't working out. Nazr Mohammed or Emeka Okafor could be brought back for pretty cheap. But yeah, I think it would be best if we packaged hendo and biyombo around midseason. I think they're going to prove to be dead weight.

Goose17
07-29-2014, 02:25 PM
Al Jefferson is a center, Jeremy Tyler hasn't been with the team in years and plays in the D-League for the Warriors I think, and you forgot to mention Hairston. I think we're just looking for a back up center for Big Al since Biyombo isn't working out. Nazr Mohammed or Emeka Okafor could be brought back for pretty cheap. But yeah, I think it would be best if we packaged hendo and biyombo around midseason. I think they're going to prove to be dead weight.

Okafor could be a potential bargain, you're going to get like 10 points and 10 rebounds from a guy that won't take up that much cap room. That would be a nice signing.

Rockice_8
07-29-2014, 02:40 PM
I get that. But you said they'd be improved by playing AK47 more. He's just another past his prime player, doing very little in the time given.

Time to watch more AK then because in his little time on the floor did exactly what D-leathal was saying. Kept plays alive, played solid D, hustled. That was with inconsistent minutes. Pierce this year would have just taken shots out of Lopez and Johnson's hands and guys like Mirza/Bogdanovic are better suited as the spot up shooters. Pierce is nothing but spot up shooter at this point in his career. Can't cover SF's anymore and when you put him at PF where he can use his speed against slower footed PF's he hurts your rebounding inside. WAS fans will realize this quickly. They downgraded not so much offensively which they still did, but definitely defensively.

Pierce is not a big loss for the Nets. Livingston was more of a loss on the defensive end but can be covered up with AK's length.

Nets are getting severely overlooked, they still can field a solid starting 5 and a solid depth.

Oh and Plumlee didn't start for the Nets so that is completely a false statement.

Rockice_8
07-29-2014, 02:49 PM
how can people leave out the raptors
they should be the team to beat, third seed last year and got better while the top 2 seeds got worse
after rudy gay(18 games) they were the best team in the east, 4th best in the league


No way. Stayed completely healthy last year and Lowery had a career season. No proof they will be better than last year in which they lost in the first round. Not the team to beat. Whoever has Lebron is the team to beat.

goingfor28
07-29-2014, 03:01 PM
Assuming health I'd say
Bulls
Cavs
Wizards
Raptors
Hornets
Pacers
Hawks
Heat/Nets

dalton749
07-29-2014, 04:22 PM
No way. Stayed completely healthy last year and Lowery had a career season. No proof they will be better than last year in which they lost in the first round. Not the team to beat. Whoever has Lebron is the team to beat.

For those 64 games last year, they were better than lebrons team. They had good health last year but not a lot of depth. They now have one of the deepest teams in the league.
And they lost to a team full of vets at the buzzer of game 7, while starting 2 second year players, the only playoff team to do so. They would have beaten the wizards, bulls or pacers if they met IMO

Returning next year with the same lineup of young guys coming off a season where they were 9th in offence and defence.

D-Leethal
07-29-2014, 04:29 PM
After CHI, CLE and WAS the rest of the east is a toss up. CHAR can easily miss the playoffs. They have a solid young team but are nowhere near contenders or even a lock for the playoffs. I'm sure ATL thinks they make the playoffs, I'm sure BK, INDY, TOR, MIA fans all think they're teams are playoff bound too. That's 8 right there. DET and NYK aren't just going to lay down.

The East is going to be tough this year.

I have CHI, CLE, WAS and TOR as close to locks as you can get. Then MIA, BK, INDY, CHAR, ATL, NYK and 6 others fighting for 4 spots. None of which without obvious question marks and none with a clear advantage over another.

Looks like we see eye-to-eye here. When you break it down, I have no idea how people can expect CHA to be some sort of playoff lock. The East didn't get more powerful at the top, but it evened out across the conference. That doesn't bode well for teams who never beat the top teams and stake their claim against the crap teams. I see a lot of teams in the 40-45 win range fighting for too few spots for them to all make the playoffs.

NBA_Starter
07-29-2014, 10:27 PM
Lol that's what I said. The Hornets are for sure a playoff team but

Cavs
Bulls
Pacers
Wizards
Raptors

are obviously ahead of them, and

Heat
Hawks

are right there with the Hornets, so I don't know about "easily."

Pacers will be a sixth seed or lower.

mngopher35
07-29-2014, 10:56 PM
Hornets have made some nice moves imo, I think they will be a 5-8 seed this year but have room/potential to develop.

0nekhmer
07-30-2014, 12:05 AM
As good as lance is, it's all about the chemistry and how he'll fit in thst system. Obviously he's a solid defender, who won't do anything but help that top 5 defensive team thrive. But on offense, is he going to be demanding the ball more, how will he adjust to a new system? A lot of questions, but i would be more excited than nervous if i were a hornets fan.

JEDean89
07-30-2014, 12:10 AM
i feel like the hornets are not only set up to win now, but well into the future. koodos to mj for that. MKG is the guy who I ultimately believe is gonna make or break this team. he has star potential as a 2 way player even if his offense never gets to 20 points a game. Vonleh has all the potential in the world also, I expect he can be their future stud in 4-5 years. team has star power right now in Stephenson, Kemba and Jefferson and with guys like Marvin Williams, Cody Zeller and Gerald Henderson as role players, this team can be very nice. I expect another palyoff birth and to be in the 3-6 range. I like their potential more than the Wizards, who will be counting on 2 overpaid bigs who are injury prone.

Bulls
Cavs
Raptors
Pacers
Hornets
Wizards
Knicks
Hawks

dare I say the eastern playoffs may not have a below .500 team this year?

Rockice_8
07-30-2014, 11:12 AM
For those 64 games last year, they were better than lebrons team. They had good health last year but not a lot of depth. They now have one of the deepest teams in the league.
And they lost to a team full of vets at the buzzer of game 7, while starting 2 second year players, the only playoff team to do so. They would have beaten the wizards, bulls or pacers if they met IMO

Returning next year with the same lineup of young guys coming off a season where they were 9th in offence and defence.


And the Nets were the best team in the East after the new year and swept MIA. The Raps lost in the first round, teams to beat don't lose in the first round. Lebron doesn't lose in the first round.

The east will always go through Lebron until he leaves or declines. That's just the way it is.

JasonJohnHorn
07-30-2014, 11:13 AM
I think Lance and Big Al give them some serious weapons on offense, but I would like to see a different point guard on that team. Rondo would be a great addition. If they could send Kemba and Henderson to Boston in a deal that gets them Rondo, I think this group would be a a Thibs of Rivers away from contending (no offense to their current coach who I frankly don't know enough about to evaluate, so he may be perfectly qualified).

MKG and Lance could be elite defenders with the right coach, and bringing in a guy like Rondo would help the defensive culture of the team.

I'm looking forward to seeing what these guys do and am curious to see what deals they make before the season starts, because they do have some pieces.

Rockice_8
07-30-2014, 11:17 AM
Looks like we see eye-to-eye here. When you break it down, I have no idea how people can expect CHA to be some sort of playoff lock. The East didn't get more powerful at the top, but it evened out across the conference. That doesn't bode well for teams who never beat the top teams and stake their claim against the crap teams. I see a lot of teams in the 40-45 win range fighting for too few spots for them to all make the playoffs.


We do. There are going to be solid teams that miss in the east this year for the first time in awhile. Would not shock me one bit if CHAR missed out. I got 4 locks in the east. CLE, CHI, WAS, TOR. After those 4 there are about 6-7 teams looking for the last 4 spots. None of which clearly better than the next.

If I had to make an early prediction (in no order)

ATL, BK, INDY, CHAR with MIA just missing.

ewing
07-30-2014, 11:21 AM
I don't even think the Hornets make the playoffs next year.

i agree

black1605
07-30-2014, 01:49 PM
i agree

Do you think the Knicks make it?

ewing
07-30-2014, 02:03 PM
Do you think the Knicks make it?

yes

todu82
07-30-2014, 02:27 PM
I like the team, they're going to be a team to watch going forward.

goingfor28
07-30-2014, 04:43 PM
yes
Over the hornets? Absolutely zero chance

ewing
07-30-2014, 05:53 PM
Over the hornets? Absolutely zero chance


way dude. The knicks will be better then the Bobcats. Al hasn't got better since HS and will likely get hurt but Kemba sucks. I like MKG but guys like him neither develop well or are able exert themselves as much as they should on teams like Char. I kinda like Gary Neil but overall they suck

goingfor28
07-30-2014, 06:01 PM
way dude. The knicks will be better then the Bobcats. Al hasn't got better since HS and will likely get hurt but Kemba sucks. I like MKG but guys like him neither develop well or are able exert themselves as much as they should on teams like Char. I kinda like Gary Neil but overall they suck

:eyebrow:
Al is the best offensive C in the game
Team D was what? Top 5?
Added Lance and Kemba is another year older
Got Vonleh and PJ (badly needed 3 shooter) in the draft

FlashBolt
07-30-2014, 06:23 PM
East has gotten so much better this year. They are easily top 4 to me just behind Miami, Bulls, and Cavs. Pacers are a no-no for me at this point. Can PG elevate his game to elite? Can Roy Hibbert stop averaging 0/0 and become a top 5 center? David West is getting older - definitely not a great sign. Their second best player in the playoffs (Lance Stephenson) is gone. Adding a player of Lance Stephenson's caliber while (assuming Kemba and MKG improves) is a sure shot of a top 4. Then I have Wizards/Toronto/Pacers for the 5 spot.

chitownbulls
07-30-2014, 07:15 PM
East has gotten so much better this year. They are easily top 4 to me just behind Miami, Bulls, and Cavs. Pacers are a no-no for me at this point. Can PG elevate his game to elite? Can Roy Hibbert stop averaging 0/0 and become a top 5 center? David West is getting older - definitely not a great sign. Their second best player in the playoffs (Lance Stephenson) is gone. Adding a player of Lance Stephenson's caliber while (assuming Kemba and MKG improves) is a sure shot of a top 4. Then I have Wizards/Toronto/Pacers for the 5 spot.

Couldn't have said it any better

NBA_Starter
07-30-2014, 08:31 PM
i agree

The only way the Hornets miss the playoffs is if they are crippled by injuries.

ewing
07-30-2014, 10:20 PM
:eyebrow:
Al is the best offensive C in the game
Team D was what? Top 5?
Added Lance and Kemba is another year older
Got Vonleh and PJ (badly needed 3 shooter) in the draft


Lance is total wild card and makes it so both your guards over dribble frequently. Big Al has had that post game since he was 18 and while its impressive he has never gotten better and is frequently hurt. I like MKG a lot but next to two dribble happy guards and black hole at center his game will likely continue to be stunted. If they stay healthy they might make the playoffs but no is worried about them. If big Al goes down and Lance and Kemba have trouble playing together....

NBA_Starter
07-30-2014, 10:45 PM
black hole :laugh:

Nice comedy routine.

Coilz
07-30-2014, 10:58 PM
East has gotten so much better this year. They are easily top 4 to me just behind Miami, Bulls, and Cavs. Pacers are a no-no for me at this point. Can PG elevate his game to elite? Can Roy Hibbert stop averaging 0/0 and become a top 5 center? David West is getting older - definitely not a great sign. Their second best player in the playoffs (Lance Stephenson) is gone. Adding a player of Lance Stephenson's caliber while (assuming Kemba and MKG improves) is a sure shot of a top 4. Then I have Wizards/Toronto/Pacers for the 5 spot.

Wow, didn't expect to see this at all. Great look at the East, completely agree.

D-Leethal
07-30-2014, 11:13 PM
Hornets can be close to the 21 win team they were two years ago just as easily as Knicks can be close to the 54 win from 2 years ago.

I still wanna hear how Kemba and Lance will mesh in the back court. Thats as easily to peg a disaster as the Detroit front court last year. I also want to hear why Kemba gets some sort of free pass as a rising star when every other sub zero shooter gets treated as the anti-christ around here. ****, Kemba is apparently a stud and Iverson is a scrub on this forum.

And please stop bringing up their rookies. Their draft record is crap. Why is Noah going to be any different than Zeller?

ewing
07-30-2014, 11:13 PM
black hole :laugh:

Nice comedy routine.


If you team is as good as you think they are they better play some hard nose D and play with a ton of energy. I'll be honest, i've never been a big Kemba fan. I love Al post game and rebounding but i think he getting a little hype. I also love Lance and MKG on D. I even like Lance on offensive but if you ask him to have the kind of offensive responsibility he had in last year playoffs i think it is a losing bet long term.

D-Leethal
07-30-2014, 11:14 PM
Come to think of it though, most of you guys here actually thought Detroit was a rising team last year too despite the glaring red flags at adjacent positions.

D-Leethal
07-30-2014, 11:17 PM
Not much different than Jennings and Monta.

ewing
07-30-2014, 11:27 PM
Come to think of it though, most of you guys here actually thought Detroit was a rising team last year too despite the glaring red flags at adjacent positions.


I agree. I think they could be good but I don't like Al Jefferson, Kemba Walker, and Lance Stevenson being my 3 decision makers on offensive. Done of them give you that nice calm feeling you get when the ball is in the hands of a great decision maker. I wouldn't mind any of them on my team but as trio idk.

GoBullsGo
07-30-2014, 11:36 PM
Al Jefferson is a superstar big man severely underrated but you need a clear number two or number one option who can shoot from outside. Walker and Stephenson together are a great backcourt but I don't expect neither to become superstars - not this season at least. They need to trade Henderson and pieces for a big man (center) who can start and put Al at the PF.

mngopher35
07-30-2014, 11:36 PM
Come to think of it though, most of you guys here actually thought Detroit was a rising team last year too despite the glaring red flags at adjacent positions.

I don't think Kemba and Lance are that horrible offensively fit wise like you said. They still have Henderson too if it goes bad but I think it is an upgrade overall. They will need a solid O system but they have proven a good defense and this offense has potential (mkg, Walker, Lance, Vonleh, hairston, zeller all young and improving as well).

Losing mcroberts hurts but Lance, hairston, Marvin williams, and Vonleh makes up for that and more for me. I wouldn't call playoffs a lock but I think it is likely. I also think it is solid potential moving forward. There are risks and it might not work but I'm just not convinced and think it could actually. I think they should be in the market for one more big man but it is a solid team imo (maybe they are looking for one I don't know their rumors right now).

(PS I wasn't big on detroits frontcourt with smith at 3 or jennings at pg either)

mngopher35
07-30-2014, 11:42 PM
I agree. I think they could be good but I don't like Al Jefferson, Kemba Walker, and Lance Stevenson being my 3 decision makers on offensive. Done of them give you that nice calm feeling you get when the ball is in the hands of a great decision maker. I wouldn't mind any of them on my team but as trio idk.

I get that which is why I mentioned solid system in my last post. I think they have the talent/potential to become a pretty good offense but when looking at each one player it makes you wonder like you said. If they can be a team offense they could make it work though. They have skills that can work together but will they all be willing to buy in and play their roles? Will most of them continue to develop? Will they make the right decisions late or will they try too much 1v1? I dunno the answers but I like the potential there if they can make it work, which is somewhat likely imo.

ewing
07-30-2014, 11:46 PM
I don't think Kemba and Lance are that horrible offensively fit wise like you said. They still have Henderson too if it goes bad but I think it is an upgrade overall. They will need a solid O system but they have proven a good defense and this offense has potential (mkg, Walker, Lance, Vonleh, hairston, zeller all young and improving as well).

Losing mcroberts hurts but Lance, hairston, Marvin williams, and Vonleh makes up for that and more for me. I wouldn't call playoffs a lock but I think it is likely. I also think it is solid potential moving forward. There are risks and it might not work but I'm just not convinced and think it could actually. I think they should be in the market for one more big man but it is a solid team imo (maybe they are looking for one I don't know their rumors right now).

(PS I wasn't big on detroits frontcourt with smith at 3 or jennings at pg either)


I always liked Henderson and think he fits better next to Kemba. For Kemba and Lance to work they will have to play there ***** off (energy can beat execution) and Lance will have to pick up that dribble.

king4day
07-31-2014, 12:19 AM
Surprised at the knock some people are giving to Charlotte.

Gotta also remember they have a solid backup PG in Roberts. They were a superior defensive team last season with a bunch of 'nobodies'. Stephenson will definitely help there.

For the person saying Jefferson has had the same postgame since High School... If that's the case then fine. But nobody is able to stop him.

Yes injuries could be an issue but it's not like NY is full of healthy players themselves.

ewing
07-31-2014, 12:30 AM
Surprised at the knock some people are giving to Charlotte.

Gotta also remember they have a solid backup PG in Roberts. They were a superior defensive team last season with a bunch of 'nobodies'. Stephenson will definitely help there.

For the person saying Jefferson has had the same postgame since High School... If that's the case then fine. But nobody is able to stop him.

Yes injuries could be an issue but it's not like NY is full of healthy players themselves.

This thread isn't about the knicks

mjt20mik
07-31-2014, 12:32 AM
Surprised at the knock some people are giving to Charlotte.

Gotta also remember they have a solid backup PG in Roberts. They were a superior defensive team last season with a bunch of 'nobodies'. Stephenson will definitely help there.

For the person saying Jefferson has had the same postgame since High School... If that's the case then fine. But nobody is able to stop him.

Yes injuries could be an issue but it's not like NY is full of healthy players themselves.

They really weren't a superior defensive team. They just played a such a slow pace that it caused opponents to reduce their amount of possessions and overall possessions during the game.

0nekhmer
07-31-2014, 12:32 AM
way dude. The knicks will be better then the Bobcats. Al hasn't got better since HS and will likely get hurt but Kemba sucks. I like MKG but guys like him neither develop well or are able exert themselves as much as they should on teams like Char. I kinda like Gary Neil but overall they suck

Lmao the hornets can't get any worse, becsude their core is made of young guys entering their prime, while your knicks only have two of shump and THJ to grow internally. Melo is melo, and everyone else won't be improving.

king4day
07-31-2014, 12:34 AM
This thread isn't about the knicks


This was a page ago:


Do you think the Knicks make it?


yes


Over the hornets? Absolutely zero chance


way dude. The knicks will be better then the Bobcats. Al hasn't got better since HS and will likely get hurt but Kemba sucks. I like MKG but guys like him neither develop well or are able exert themselves as much as they should on teams like Char. I kinda like Gary Neil but overall they suck

You suggest Jefferson will get hurt, and he may, but so could Amar'e. Stephenson could lose his mind or not get along with the team... but so could JR Smith.

ewing
07-31-2014, 12:39 AM
Lmao the hornets can't get any worse, becsude their core is made of young guys entering their prime, while your knicks only have two of shump and THJ to grow internally. Melo is melo, and everyone else won't be improving.

i don't care who is better or worse in 5 years. Next year the Knicks will be better then Char. They have Melo, a true PG, some bigs to protect the rim, and a mix matched bunch that can do a decent job of filling holes. They could really use a long steady swing man with range and defensive versatility but i think they have enough to bounce back decently.

ewing
07-31-2014, 12:44 AM
This was a page ago:









You suggest Jefferson will get hurt, and he may, but so could Amar'e. Stephenson could lose his mind or not get along with the team... but so could JR Smith.


are comparing Al Jefferson health's to Amare and Lance's mental focus to JR Smith's while sticking up for Char as a lock in the playoffs? I know the Knicks have questions too. I still think they will be better then Char.

mngopher35
07-31-2014, 01:41 AM
I always liked Henderson and think he fits better next to Kemba. For Kemba and Lance to work they will have to play there ***** off (energy can beat execution) and Lance will have to pick up that dribble.

I think Stephenson is better overall even if not fit wise but Henderson should get plenty of time as 6th man. I agree with you but I think they do all have some offensive skills and ball handling/passing skills are there for them to have an offense. It is the decision making that they need to improve and hopefully they can grow together as a team and do that. I think they can make it work and they will have very good D again either way. We will see I guess, I think Hornets fans have good reason to be optimistic.

mngopher35
07-31-2014, 01:48 AM
are comparing Al Jefferson health's to Amare and Lance's mental focus to JR Smith's while sticking up for Char as a lock in the playoffs? I know the Knicks have questions too. I still think they will be better then Char.

I dunno about that I think I'd say Charlotte. Knicks could be better but I am more worried about their defense than Charlotte's offense. It could be close but I would pick Charlotte I think (maybe I haven't looked deeply enough into knicks roster though). I wouldn't call either a lock for playoffs but think Charlotte makes it.

bigsams50
07-31-2014, 02:27 AM
I like the knicks next year for the playoffs,. but i dont really see how people could rank them over Charlotte. I mean yes they have melo,. but what did that do for them last year? I also think that Lance is a definite upgrade over hendo,. at least lance can shoot some 3's

2-ONE-5
07-31-2014, 08:49 AM
way dude. The knicks will be better then the Bobcats. Al hasn't got better since HS and will likely get hurt but Kemba sucks. I like MKG but guys like him neither develop well or are able exert themselves as much as they should on teams like Char. I kinda like Gary Neil but overall they suck

lol this is ridiculous. Big Al was phenomenal last year and nothing less. Kemba also improved his game too. Add in Lance who is a strong defender himself and you easily have a playoff team and a team much better then Knicks, its not even close. How is Calderon gonna contain Kemba? whose gonna stop Jefferson from going off? then thorw is Stephenson who can pick up the slack rather its scoring, rebounding, passing, etc.

ewing
07-31-2014, 09:27 AM
lol this is ridiculous. Big Al was phenomenal last year and nothing less. Kemba also improved his game too. Add in Lance who is a strong defender himself and you easily have a playoff team and a team much better then Knicks, its not even close. How is Calderon gonna contain Kemba? whose gonna stop Jefferson from going off? then thorw is Stephenson who can pick up the slack rather its scoring, rebounding, passing, etc.


I guess you cant stop Kemba these days you can only hope to contain him and if you are the Knicks you don't even have that hope. Sorry, but you guys might be hyping this Char. team a little.

2-ONE-5
07-31-2014, 10:55 AM
I guess you cant stop Kemba these days you can only hope to contain him and if you are the Knicks you don't even have that hope. Sorry, but you guys might be hyping this Char. team a little.

no Calderon cant stop or even contain Kemba bcuz he isone of the worst defensive points in the league. Hornets are a top 6 team and the Knicks are a top 8-10 team in the east. you are being a huge homer with these outlandish arguments.

IndyRealist
07-31-2014, 11:14 AM
They really weren't a superior defensive team. They just played a such a slow pace that it caused opponents to reduce their amount of possessions and overall possessions during the game.

Their defensive rating, which accounts for pace, was 5th last year. So they were still a top tier defensive team.

ewing
07-31-2014, 11:26 AM
no Calderon cant stop or even contain Kemba bcuz he isone of the worst defensive points in the league. Hornets are a top 6 team and the Knicks are a top 8-10 team in the east. you are being a huge homer with these outlandish arguments.


You cannot contain Kemba Walker is an outlandish statement.

2-ONE-5
07-31-2014, 11:37 AM
no i said CALDERON cant contain him. learn how to read man

ewing
07-31-2014, 11:42 AM
no i said CALDERON cant contain him. learn how to read man


the guy is a shoot first pg that scores under 20 a night and shoots under 40% from the field. He contains himself. Projecting Walker as some kind of dominate offensive player in any match up is an outlandish statement.

IndyRealist
07-31-2014, 11:48 AM
I don't feel like quoting everything so I'll just sum up:
1) kemba sucks. However, kemba also carried all the the non-post offense on his own. I suspect Lance will take over a large part of the ballhandling, so we'll see if Kemba looks better when he's not forcing shots.
2) Charlotte was a top defensive team last year, despite their pace. However, as someone who watched Lance his entire career, he can be lazy and gambles too much trying for a highlight. He goes through the motions if he's not getting the ball on offense.
3) why are knicks' fans so adamant the Hornets are going to be horrible? Sounds like insecurity about their own team to me. Charlotte had a good season and got a 2nd/3rd tier free agent, let them have their moment.

ewing
07-31-2014, 11:59 AM
I don't feel like quoting everything so I'll just sum up:
1) kemba sucks. However, kemba also carried all the the non-post offense on his own. I suspect Lance will take over a large part of the ballhandling, so we'll see if Kemba looks better when he's not forcing shots.
2) Charlotte was a top defensive team last year, despite their pace. However, as someone who watched Lance his entire career, he can be lazy and gambles too much trying for a highlight. He goes through the motions if he's not getting the ball on offense.
3) why are knicks' fans so adamant the Hornets are going to be horrible? Sounds like insecurity about their own team to me. Charlotte had a good season and got a 2nd/3rd tier free agent, let them have their moment.


You are right. I was just surprised that there was a long thread about them with a consensus that they were a lock for the playoffs.

Rockice_8
07-31-2014, 12:19 PM
There are other teams in the East that can keep CHAR out of the playoffs besides the Knicks. Not sure how it got to that.

CHAR is a nice decent squad, nothing more. I think they make the playoffs as a 6-8 seed but could see them just miss as a 9 seed or something.

Curious what everyone's option is on McRoberts. Is he going to be missed on CHAR?

ManRam
07-31-2014, 12:21 PM
They really weren't a superior defensive team. They just played a such a slow pace that it caused opponents to reduce their amount of possessions and overall possessions during the game.

This is not true. Look at any per possession defensive metric and they're right there. Most obviously, defensive rating where they rank 5th.


They were a great defensive team because they have good perimeter defenders, good coaching and were the best defensive rebounding team in the NBA by a good margin. Al Jefferson doesn't play great individual defense but he's a top-5 defensive rebounder and that often makes a difference. Plus, they never foul. DRB and FT/FGA are 2/4s of the "Defensive Four Factors" (though, weighted the least) and they excel tremendously at both. They're more towards the league average in opponent eFG% and below average in opponent TOV%.

They were indeed good defensively and it wasn't solely because of their pace (rank 21st). Take pace out of the equation and they still rate very well.

D-Leethal
07-31-2014, 12:53 PM
no i said CALDERON cant contain him. learn how to read man

Point guards defend point guards 1 on 1 probably less than 5% of total possessions across an NBA game.

D-Leethal
07-31-2014, 12:56 PM
I don't feel like quoting everything so I'll just sum up:
1) kemba sucks. However, kemba also carried all the the non-post offense on his own. I suspect Lance will take over a large part of the ballhandling, so we'll see if Kemba looks better when he's not forcing shots.
2) Charlotte was a top defensive team last year, despite their pace. However, as someone who watched Lance his entire career, he can be lazy and gambles too much trying for a highlight. He goes through the motions if he's not getting the ball on offense.
3) why are knicks' fans so adamant the Hornets are going to be horrible? Sounds like insecurity about their own team to me. Charlotte had a good season and got a 2nd/3rd tier free agent, let them have their moment.

I don't think anyone said they are going to be horrible. I said I don't think they will make the playoffs. Somebody has gotta let the Cavs in, if you think thats the Nets, thats your prerogative. In my opinion, somebody is gonna let the Knicks in, and in my opinion, thats gonna be Charlotte.

Saying they are gonna miss the playoffs =/ saying they are horrible.

I see a 40-42 record and a 9 seed. I do think Kemba and Lance will be an over-dribbling, over-chucking disaster.

D-Leethal
07-31-2014, 01:05 PM
I love to dog the Nets, but even with his glass ankles and Lopez' glass foot, a team centered around DWill - Johnson - Brook, with (possibly) KG is better than Kemba - Lance - Jefferson IMO.

When the pressure was on late last season, and the "Phil effect" was in place, Knicks showed they were much better than the shitfest team they were all season long (finished 14-5 with an 8 game win streak once the Jackson move was announced). They beat some very good teams last year (including the two that played for the championship), they unfortunately lost to some very bad ones to cancel it out. They obviously didn't bring it every night but I think that changes with the new regime and a renewed sense of urgency after the debacle last season.

I see more teams in the 40 win range that were in the 30 win range last year. I don't think that bodes well for Charlotte.

goingfor28
07-31-2014, 01:06 PM
Nobody is letting the knicks in the playoffs this year

D-Leethal
07-31-2014, 01:11 PM
Lmao the hornets can't get any worse, becsude their core is made of young guys entering their prime, while your knicks only have two of shump and THJ to grow internally. Melo is melo, and everyone else won't be improving.

Gee whiz, a young team has never taken a step back before in this league? My opinion that Charlotte misses the playoffs has more to do with teams that are not Charlotte.

I see 2-3 less wins, and a non-playoff birth. I could see them winning 43 again and missing the playoffs next year.

D-Leethal
07-31-2014, 01:13 PM
Nobody is letting the knicks in the playoffs this year

Thats wonderful news, glad to hear it from the horses mouth.

SCHMURDA
07-31-2014, 01:37 PM
It's so sad that Big Al will never get the respect he deserves....Charlotte had a signifigantly improved team last year under Steve Clifford. I could go on for 10 minutes about why Charlotte is underrated, but I'll leave it at the 7th seed last year and added Lance Stephenson, Noah Vonleh, and depth in Marvin Williams and PJ Hairston. Steve Clifford is a defensive genius and Cody Zeller improved a lot last year.

Kemba - ALOT of pressure taken off due to Lance coming will improve shot % and assists
Lance - Finally has an opportunity to be primary/2nd scorer
MKG - Elite defense, improved offense/slashing
Vonleh/Zeller - Young but TALENTED, each good for 15-8 per 36
Big Al - Most underrated player in the NBA, 20-10 EVERY NIGHT and never gets mentioned with top bigs

Coach Cliff - Completely turned this team around last year, defensive wiz

Add all that with them bringing back the BUZZ lol Charlotte is looking nice for the upcoming season

I've got....

1. Chicago 59-23
2. Cleveland 58-24
3. Washington 53-29
4. Miami 49-33
5. Charlotte 48-34
6. Indiana 47-35
7. Toronto 44-38
8. Atlanta 41-41
__________________

New York 39-43
Brooklyn 38-44
Orlando 33-49
Milwuakee 32-50
Detroit 29-53
Boston 28-54
Philly 19-63

D-Leethal
07-31-2014, 02:02 PM
Kemba and Lance are not going to feed off each other, they are both over-dribbling, horrible shot selection chuckers. I can already see Kemba dribble at the arc for 10 seconds, pass to lance to dribble at the arc for 10 seconds, jack a 3. Lance has already been called out a ton of times by his big guys for over dribbling and not passing to the post (where CHA's best player resides). If Lance didn't put a ton of effort into his D, it would be no different than Jennings and Monta Ellis.

Lance should never get the opportunity to be a great teams second scorer. He isn't good enough for that.

If MKG is this defensive monster how the hell did he let two different players drop 60 on him last year? (he is a quality defender, he is no stopper or all nba defender)

Zeller is garbage. He is a bench player. I won't speak on Vonlah and nobody else should either - especially given Charlottes track record in the draft. Every rookie's per 36 looks good when you play 10-15 mins a game. If they were any good they would actually be a key piece of the rotation on a team without a ton of veteran talent.

Al Jeff is a beast and I love his post game, no denying that.

Clifford is a defensive whiz and came from the Knicks so I love the guy, as well as Ewing.

I think this "leap" Charlotte is going to take is in your heads. The only reason Indy made the leap is because they had a young player go from pretty good young player to all star/franchise player. Charlotte doesn't have that. Lance Stephenson certainly is not that. Al Jeff is their franchise player and he is not making any leap next season.

Their defense will be top notch and their offense will be terrible. They will win 40-43 games again and miss the playoffs.

One thing I know for sure - it will be fun to pull this thread up mid season.

Rockice_8
07-31-2014, 02:28 PM
It's so sad that Big Al will never get the respect he deserves....Charlotte had a signifigantly improved team last year under Steve Clifford. I could go on for 10 minutes about why Charlotte is underrated, but I'll leave it at the 7th seed last year and added Lance Stephenson, Noah Vonleh, and depth in Marvin Williams and PJ Hairston. Steve Clifford is a defensive genius and Cody Zeller improved a lot last year.

Kemba - ALOT of pressure taken off due to Lance coming will improve shot % and assists
Lance - Finally has an opportunity to be primary/2nd scorer
MKG - Elite defense, improved offense/slashing
Vonleh/Zeller - Young but TALENTED, each good for 15-8 per 36
Big Al - Most underrated player in the NBA, 20-10 EVERY NIGHT and never gets mentioned with top bigs

Coach Cliff - Completely turned this team around last year, defensive wiz

Add all that with them bringing back the BUZZ lol Charlotte is looking nice for the upcoming season

I've got....

1. Chicago 59-23
2. Cleveland 58-24
3. Washington 53-29
4. Miami 49-33
5. Charlotte 48-34
6. Indiana 47-35
7. Toronto 44-38
8. Atlanta 41-41
__________________

New York 39-43
Brooklyn 38-44
Orlando 33-49
Milwuakee 32-50
Detroit 29-53
Boston 28-54
Philly 19-63


Well where to start see bold.

1. Kemba isn't automatically going to shoot a better FG % now that Lance is there, that is all speculative and most likely false.
2. Lance was the #2 on that team behind PG. He's in the same spot now with CHAR. AL is #1 and he'll split shots with Kemba as he did with West last year.
3. Not every young player improves, still need to see it with MKG. Shooting is still an issue with him.
4. Noah is a rookie and will probably come off the bench (nothing proven there) and Zeller was not very good last year.
5. AL is the best player on the floor for CHAR. He is very good I'll give you that.

MIA/CHAR at nearly 50 wins LOL I seriously doubt that. TOR is better than CHAR and the NETS, HAWKS, and INDY are right there with CHAR.

You are seriously overrating CHAR along with MIA too. MIA will probably miss the playoffs honestly.

Top four are pretty easy to predict. CLE, CHI, WAS, TOR. I have BK, INDY, CHAR, ATL as the next 4 in. NYK is the dark horse to knock out one of them.

Chaotic98
07-31-2014, 02:51 PM
Last Season My Season's Prediction

1 z - Indiana------------Z-Cleveland (if Love is traded there, if not Chicago is #1 Clev #2)
2 y - Miami--------------x-Chicago (got Pau, JRose back, lost Boozer, so addition by subtraction)
3 y - Toronto------------y-Toronto (Div champ, cant be lower than 4, got Williams, Johnson, lost Salmons)
4 x - Chicago-------------y-Miami (Div champ, lost LBJ, but Got Deng, McRoberts, Granger more depth)
5 x - Washington---------x-Washington (Got Pierce, lost Ariza loses in D gains in experience)
6 x - Brooklyn------------x-Indiana (lost Lance replaced with CJ Miles, Which Hibbert shows up?)
7 x - Charlotte-----------x-Atlanta (Got Sefalosha and Horford back, Lost Williams tough front court)
8 x - Atlanta-------------x-Charlotte (got Lance, Lost McRoberts, how will Lance and Kemba mesh?)

9 New York--------------Brooklyn (lost Pierce, Livingston, Kidd, got Jack and is Lopez back long term?)
10 Cleveland--------------New York (lost Chandler, Felton got Calderon, Delambert = a wash)
11 Detroit-----------------Detroit (has some talent, but doesn't mesh well together)
12 Boston-----------------Orlando (Lost Nelson, got Frye Ridnour, and B.Gordon (why?)
13 Orlando---------------Boston (lost little got little probably, will Trade Rondo?)
14 Philadelphia-----------Milwaukee (Little improvements or player losses, but Kidd in as Coach)
15 Milwaukee-------------Philadelphia (tanking to a new level, drafting injured players 2 years in a row)

I can see a lot of competition between 6-10 all those teams are close in talent to each other and any can make the playoffs, all it can take is an injury or a trade to put 10th at 6th or 6th at 10th) the East is going to be fun to watch this year, as there is probably the most parity between most of the teams than there has been in many years. I don't think a sub .500 gets in this year as all teams will be pretty close.

Rockice_8
07-31-2014, 03:38 PM
I am absolutely stunned with where people are putting MIA. Deng is solid but nothing near what he is going to have to replace in Lebron. Wade is not going to be able to hold up for a full 82. It's just not going to happen those knees are just not going to be able to do it. He'll miss his annual 20-25 games if not more cause he can't coast though games like he did.

Granger? He is not that good anymore. Just an average player off the bench, a dime a dozen guy you can find anywhere. Not even a upgrade over what they have probably.

McRoberts isn't that good either. Probably a bench player masking as a starter.

A lineup of Chalmers, Wade, Deng, McRoberts, Bosh is not some top 4 seed and near 50 wins. They are like a 7-8 seed with a good chance of missing the playoffs.

sep11ie
07-31-2014, 03:58 PM
If AlJeff stays healthy they can do some work. I think Kemba is a bit underrated and Lance should look good next to him.

GoBullsGo
07-31-2014, 04:51 PM
My dudes. It is clear to me that Lance Stephenson-Kemba Walker is the best backcourt in the East.

Chaotic98
07-31-2014, 05:39 PM
My dudes. It is clear to me that Lance Stephenson-Kemba Walker is the best backcourt in the East.

Wall-Beal
Lowry-Derozan
Irving-Wiggins who might not play together once the season starts.

I would rather want those back courts over Walker-Stephenson right now in the East.

bigsams50
07-31-2014, 06:32 PM
Kemba and Lance are not going to feed off each other, they are both over-dribbling, horrible shot selection chuckers. I can already see Kemba dribble at the arc for 10 seconds, pass to lance to dribble at the arc for 10 seconds, jack a 3. Lance has already been called out a ton of times by his big guys for over dribbling and not passing to the post (where CHA's best player resides). If Lance didn't put a ton of effort into his D, it would be no different than Jennings and Monta Ellis.

Lance should never get the opportunity to be a great teams second scorer. He isn't good enough for that.

If MKG is this defensive monster how the hell did he let two different players drop 60 on him last year? (he is a quality defender, he is no stopper or all nba defender)

Zeller is garbage. He is a bench player. I won't speak on Vonlah and nobody else should either - especially given Charlottes track record in the draft. Every rookie's per 36 looks good when you play 10-15 mins a game. If they were any good they would actually be a key piece of the rotation on a team without a ton of veteran talent.

Al Jeff is a beast and I love his post game, no denying that.

Clifford is a defensive whiz and came from the Knicks so I love the guy, as well as Ewing.

I think this "leap" Charlotte is going to take is in your heads. The only reason Indy made the leap is because they had a young player go from pretty good young player to all star/franchise player. Charlotte doesn't have that. Lance Stephenson certainly is not that. Al Jeff is their franchise player and he is not making any leap next season.

Their defense will be top notch and their offense will be terrible. They will win 40-43 games again and miss the playoffs.

One thing I know for sure - it will be fun to pull this thread up mid season.

Those two players were LBJ and Melo,. not some average joe. What makes NY so much better than Charlotte? A rookie head coach, lost Chandler, you start Calderon, Amare, Melo and Bargs and that Defense will be below average. I love Melo, but i dont see him surrounding cast as good enough to help him get to a higher seed that Charlotte. IF i sound like a hater then i apologize cause i am not trying to,. i actually root for Melo, i just am curious as to why you think the KNicks are so much better than the Hornets.

ManRam
07-31-2014, 07:06 PM
Kemba and Lance are not going to feed off each other, they are both over-dribbling, horrible shot selection chuckers. I can already see Kemba dribble at the arc for 10 seconds, pass to lance to dribble at the arc for 10 seconds, jack a 3. Lance has already been called out a ton of times by his big guys for over dribbling and not passing to the post (where CHA's best player resides). If Lance didn't put a ton of effort into his D, it would be no different than Jennings and Monta Ellis.

Lance should never get the opportunity to be a great teams second scorer. He isn't good enough for that.

I'm a little less worried. I think there are some issues, but again: I just think Lance is such an upgrade that it will still be a positive. They do "over-dribble" but I don't think either are too selfish. We'll see how Lance adjusts to his role...or how much he thinks he's a #1 option. He knew his role in Indy. 11 FGA a game is no big deal. And 4.6 assists a game from a 2 guard is great. If anything I'm mostly worried about the collective range on that team. Who really is gonna be stretching the court for them? Neal can, but how much will he play? Henderson probably will see fewer minutes. McBob is gone. Sure as **** ain't MKG.

And Lance was pretty much tied for the Pacers second option last year with West. I think he'll kinda be the same for the Bobcats. But we'll see. If he comes out hoisting up 18 shots a game I'll change my tune. But he's never really shown that he's a gunner...even as weird and volatile as he comes off as.

And your MKG point has a tiny bit of validity to it...but those were great players and the team defense was just crumbling behind him. He rates out great defensively regardless of how you go about it.

GREATNESS ONE
07-31-2014, 07:16 PM
Charlotte will be in the playoffs.

D-Leethal
07-31-2014, 07:19 PM
Those two players were LBJ and Melo,. not some average joe. What makes NY so much better than Charlotte? A rookie head coach, lost Chandler, you start Calderon, Amare, Melo and Bargs and that Defense will be below average. I love Melo, but i dont see him surrounding cast as good enough to help him get to a higher seed that Charlotte. IF i sound like a hater then i apologize cause i am not trying to,. i actually root for Melo, i just am curious as to why you think the KNicks are so much better than the Hornets.

I never said they were so much better. I think Knicks will win 46-48 games and I think Charlotte wins 40-44. Something like that.

I can feel Charlotte is not making the playoffs and the Knicks are without saying Charlotte blows and Knicks are 2015 champs.

I know they are not some average joe's, but a superstar defender backed by an elite defense doesn't let that happen once, let alone twice.

bigsams50
07-31-2014, 07:25 PM
I never said they were so much better. I think Knicks will win 46-48 games and I think Charlotte wins 40-44. Something like that.

I can feel Charlotte is not making the playoffs and the Knicks are without saying Charlotte blows and Knicks are 2015 champs.

I know they are not some average joe's, but a superstar defender backed by an elite defense doesn't let that happen once, let alone twice.

I dont consider him an elite dfender yet,. the kid is only 20 years old. I see your point though. I do think 2 games is not enough to overshadow all of his good defensive games. In 2 of the 4 games vs Melo MKG help Melo to below 40% shooting. One game doesnt mean anything.

homestarunner93
07-31-2014, 07:50 PM
I didn't read the rest of the thread, but that trade is ****ing godawful for Charlotte in the OP.

IndyRealist
07-31-2014, 08:46 PM
Wall-Beal
Lowry-Derozan
Irving-Wiggins who might not play together once the season starts.

I would rather want those back courts over Walker-Stephenson right now in the East.
Pretty sure he was being sarcastic. At least I hope so.

Seizabmc
07-31-2014, 09:10 PM
I think wall and beil is the best back court in the east.

Seizabmc
07-31-2014, 09:20 PM
And I'm surprised at how many people think the knicks will miss the play offs again.

You can't judge them based off of last season.
The team had no chemistry and they all quit on there coach.

With Phil Jackson running the show and a new coach in fisher along with a new system , I think a lot of people are going to be very surprised at what the knicks will accomplish this season.

Yes they traded Tyson, but we also replaced to pg with a much better pg.
That alone with help out tons,
And Tyson won't be missed that much with dally here.

Not to mention, Tim hardaway jr will most likely improve with another season under his belt.

And having a new coach will do wonders for other guys such as jr smith and shump.

I'm expecting the knicks to have great chemistry, and play more like the knicks that won 54 games two seasons ago .

I think they will win the Atlantic and be a top five team in the east , hopefully top four.

I think chi and Indy will battle for one and two spots, as long as rose is healthy and Roy performs well.
Then I can see the cavs taking the 3 seed.
With the knicks and the wiz fighting for the 4 and 5 seeds.
Than the rapts will take 6.
With the cats and heat struggling for 7 and 8.
Depending on how fast jvg can get his guys on track, I think Detroit might be fighting for the last spot as well.

IndyRealist
07-31-2014, 11:39 PM
And I'm surprised at how many people think the knicks will miss the play offs again.

You can't judge them based off of last season.
The team had no chemistry and they all quit on there coach.

With Phil Jackson running the show and a new coach in fisher along with a new system , I think a lot of people are going to be very surprised at what the knicks will accomplish this season.

Yes they traded Tyson, but we also replaced to pg with a much better pg.
That alone with help out tons,
And Tyson won't be missed that much with dally here.

Not to mention, Tim hardaway jr will most likely improve with another season under his belt.

And having a new coach will do wonders for other guys such as jr smith and shump.

I'm expecting the knicks to have great chemistry, and play more like the knicks that won 54 games two seasons ago .

I think they will win the Atlantic and be a top five team in the east , hopefully top four.

I think chi and Indy will battle for one and two spots, as long as rose is healthy and Roy performs well.
Then I can see the cavs taking the 3 seed.
With the knicks and the wiz fighting for the 4 and 5 seeds.
Than the rapts will take 6.
With the cats and heat struggling for 7 and 8.
Depending on how fast jvg can get his guys on track, I think Detroit might be fighting for the last spot as well.
If you are comparing the Knicks, this year, to the Knicks two years ago then it's not even close. Jose Calderon is not Jason Kidd, and Sam Dalembert is not Tyson Chandler. They are also missing Steve Novak, who provided 1641 minutes of floor spacing. Say what you want about the rest of his game, he shot 42.5% from 3 and opened up the floor for Melo. All of the productive players they have now, they either had then or they had a better player then.

This is not to say that I'm down on the Knicks. I'm just saying that it's not realistic to think they'll get to anywhere near 54 wins with a lesser roster and stiffer competition.

Seizabmc
07-31-2014, 11:43 PM
I think people are under estimating what the zen master brings to the table .

Phil Jackson helped make Jordan and Kobe who they are.

IndyRealist
07-31-2014, 11:49 PM
I think people are under estimating what the zen master brings to the table .

Phil Jackson helped make Jordan and Kobe who they are.

Fair enough. But he's not coaching and you're underestimating how hard it is to learn the triangle.

SCHMURDA
08-01-2014, 12:36 AM
Charlotte could realistically finish anywhere from 50 wins to 35 IMO

Puck017
08-01-2014, 01:25 AM
Charlotte could realistically finish anywhere from 50 wins to 35 IMO

This is basically where I'm at, but I see 50 as absolute best case scenario requiring one of the Hornet's players to take their game to the next level and not just a slight improvement from last season. My prediction for the HORNETS (the cats are dead y'all) season is 40-45 wins and a shot at the 5th seed in the final week of the season. While I'm drinking the Hornets Kool-Aid and think they got a lot better this offseason, the truth is some times teams overachieve and players have career years. Not sure what people outside of Charlotte think, but I think Steve Clifford is the real deal and will have this team looking real dangerous (upset not championship) come playoff time.

Ariza's Better
08-01-2014, 07:20 AM
And I'm surprised at how many people think the knicks will miss the play offs again.

You can't judge them based off of last season.
The team had no chemistry and they all quit on there coach.

With Phil Jackson running the show and a new coach in fisher along with a new system , I think a lot of people are going to be very surprised at what the knicks will accomplish this season.

Yes they traded Tyson, but we also replaced to pg with a much better pg.
That alone with help out tons,
And Tyson won't be missed that much with dally here.

Not to mention, Tim hardaway jr will most likely improve with another season under his belt.

And having a new coach will do wonders for other guys such as jr smith and shump.

I'm expecting the knicks to have great chemistry, and play more like the knicks that won 54 games two seasons ago .

I think they will win the Atlantic and be a top five team in the east , hopefully top four.

I think chi and Indy will battle for one and two spots, as long as rose is healthy and Roy performs well.
Then I can see the cavs taking the 3 seed.
With the knicks and the wiz fighting for the 4 and 5 seeds.
Than the rapts will take 6.
With the cats and heat struggling for 7 and 8.
Depending on how fast jvg can get his guys on track, I think Detroit might be fighting for the last spot as well.
There is two giant holes at the PF and C position. I see the Knicks as the 8th seed. 7th at best.

Chrisclover
08-01-2014, 07:30 AM
Lol that's what I said. The Hornets are for sure a playoff team but

Cavs
Bulls
Pacers
Wizards
Raptors

are obviously ahead of them, and

Heat
Hawks

are right there with the Hornets, so I don't know about "easily."

easily an 8th seed.

lamzoka
08-01-2014, 07:33 AM
I don't even think the Hornets make the playoffs next year.


All I know is at least 2 playoffs teams from last season won't make it this year. The Knicks and Cavs are getting in.

I think its going to be ATL and BK or Hornets

IndyRealist
08-01-2014, 07:49 AM
Charlotte could realistically finish anywhere from 50 wins to 35 IMO

50 is really, really optimistic. That's saying either one of their rookies or sophomores becomes a stud, Kemba becomes Westbrook or Lance becomes Lebron James.

ewing
08-01-2014, 08:01 AM
If you are comparing the Knicks, this year, to the Knicks two years ago then it's not even close. Jose Calderon is not Jason Kidd, and Sam Dalembert is not Tyson Chandler. They are also missing Steve Novak, who provided 1641 minutes of floor spacing. Say what you want about the rest of his game, he shot 42.5% from 3 and opened up the floor for Melo. All of the productive players they have now, they either had then or they had a better player then.

This is not to say that I'm down on the Knicks. I'm just saying that it's not realistic to think they'll get to anywhere near 54 wins with a lesser roster and stiffer competition.


Calderon is better then J Kidd on his last legs. Dally and Jason Smith are significant downgrade from Tyson 2 years ago, on the other hand they are an upgrade from the Tyson that quit on the team last year. As far as Novak well, guys will have to hit shots. I think improved ball movement will help with that. The Knicks likely won't win 54 games but i do think a bounce back year is a reasonable prediction given health.

ewing
08-01-2014, 08:02 AM
Charlotte could realistically finish anywhere from 50 wins to 35 IMO


i can see that

2-ONE-5
08-01-2014, 09:02 AM
And I'm surprised at how many people think the knicks will miss the play offs again.

You can't judge them based off of last season.
The team had no chemistry and they all quit on there coach.
With Phil Jackson running the show and a new coach in fisher along with a new system , I think a lot of people are going to be very surprised at what the knicks will accomplish this season.

Yes they traded Tyson, but we also replaced to pg with a much better pg.
That alone with help out tons,
And Tyson won't be missed that much with dally here.

Not to mention, Tim hardaway jr will most likely improve with another season under his belt.

And having a new coach will do wonders for other guys such as jr smith and shump.

I'm expecting the knicks to have great chemistry, and play more like the knicks that won 54 games two seasons ago .

I think they will win the Atlantic and be a top five team in the east , hopefully top four.

I think chi and Indy will battle for one and two spots, as long as rose is healthy and Roy performs well.
Then I can see the cavs taking the 3 seed.
With the knicks and the wiz fighting for the 4 and 5 seeds.
Than the rapts will take 6.
With the cats and heat struggling for 7 and 8.
Depending on how fast jvg can get his guys on track, I think Detroit might be fighting for the last spot as well.

now they still have no chemistry with 2 new/aging starters, a horrible defensive team and another new coach plus a new system.
even if they make the palyoffs, which i doubt, they arent winning the division.

D-Leethal
08-01-2014, 09:27 AM
Calderon is better then J Kidd on his last legs. Dally and Jason Smith are significant downgrade from Tyson 2 years ago, on the other hand they are an upgrade from the Tyson that quit on the team last year. As far as Novak well, guys will have to hit shots. I think improved ball movement will help with that. The Knicks likely won't win 54 games but i do think a bounce back year is a reasonable prediction given health.

Hardaway is a younger, shorter, more dynamic version of Novak and we didn't have Hardaway that year. He might not be as automatic as Novak when wide open (no one is), but he can at least get shots off when a defender is in the contesting zone like Novak couldn't. He will be a 40% 3 point shooter for us this year.

And did I miss the part where Calderon isn't the best 3 point shooter in the league like every year?

And Prigs who shot close to 45% last year if I'm not mistaken?

We have 3 Novak's this year instead of 1 and all three can bring something else to the table outside of stand still floor spacing.

D-Leethal
08-01-2014, 10:17 AM
now they still have no chemistry with 2 new/aging starters, a horrible defensive team and another new coach plus a new system.
even if they make the palyoffs, which i doubt, they arent winning the division.

Piggy backing off nycrican here.

Knicks were 18-24 when D'Antoni was canned. Woodson "new coach with a new system" came in and we finished the season 18-6. Now was that team an 18-24 team or an 18-6 team? They went on to to win 54 games, 72-33 total. Knicks fans knew we would win 50 games that year after seeing the resurrection late season. Nobody here did. Not one expert out of 30 on ESPN picked us to win the division. Many Knick fans including myself jumped all over the OVER on Knick Ws that year and cruised to some cash. I will be doing it again this year, especially if the over/under is in the 30s.

Knicks were 23-40 when Phil came on board. Finished 14-5 once the team knew Zen was watching with an 8 game win streak directly after he was hired. Which team will we see next year? Who knows, but there is plenty of reason to believe we'll see a resurrection closer to the 14-5 team that finished. The roster was better than 18-24 2 years ago and it was better than 23-40 last year.

D-Leethal
08-01-2014, 10:23 AM
Why do people act like "new coach new system" is a bad thing? Thats almost always a good thing and leads to instant honeymoon Ws.

NoahH
08-01-2014, 12:03 PM
I think Henderson's trade value is very very low. If Evan Turner is any indication, the Hornets will get little to nothing back. IMO Henderson is a poor man's Evan Turner which is not saying much at all.

2-ONE-5
08-01-2014, 12:31 PM
Piggy backing off nycrican here.

Knicks were 18-24 when D'Antoni was canned. Woodson "new coach with a new system" came in and we finished the season 18-6. Now was that team an 18-24 team or an 18-6 team? They went on to to win 54 games, 72-33 total. Knicks fans knew we would win 50 games that year after seeing the resurrection late season. Nobody here did. Not one expert out of 30 on ESPN picked us to win the division. Many Knick fans including myself jumped all over the OVER on Knick Ws that year and cruised to some cash. I will be doing it again this year, especially if the over/under is in the 30s.

Knicks were 23-40 when Phil came on board. Finished 14-5 once the team knew Zen was watching with an 8 game win streak directly after he was hired. Which team will we see next year? Who knows, but there is plenty of reason to believe we'll see a resurrection closer to the 14-5 team that finished. The roster was better than 18-24 2 years ago and it was better than 23-40 last year.

you canr un off all the meaningless stats you want it doesnt change that its an aging team who will struggle to defend, have to learn a new system under a first time coach. but whatever seeing how only the knicks fans in ehre think they are better then Char im dropping it and getting back on topic.

the bench is gonna be key for the Hornets to reach their full potential. Vonleh comes in with less pressure off the bench and next to Al Jeff he should be able to get some good open looks, Zeller should make some improvements too and be a contributor. Im a little iffy on Roberts but hes not terrible in that backup role and who knows what Marvin Willaims has in him anymore he has been a huge dissapointment so far.

D-Leethal
08-01-2014, 12:36 PM
you canr un off all the meaningless stats you want it doesnt change that its an aging team who will struggle to defend, have to learn a new system under a first time coach. but whatever seeing how only the knicks fans in ehre think they are better then Char im dropping it and getting back on topic.

the bench is gonna be key for the Hornets to reach their full potential. Vonleh comes in with less pressure off the bench and next to Al Jeff he should be able to get some good open looks, Zeller should make some improvements too and be a contributor. Im a little iffy on Roberts but hes not terrible in that backup role and who knows what Marvin Willaims has in him anymore he has been a huge dissapointment so far.

Vonleh, Zeller, Williams and Roberts is one of the worst benches in the league.

And look at the top teams in the league every year, they are all "aging". Vets win in this league. Either way, Knicks have more than a few youngings sprinkled across the roster. I think they have good balance of super vet (Jose, Prigs), vet (JR, Amare, Melo, Dalembert) and youngins (Shump, Hardaway, Early, Tyler, Aldrich, Larkin).

If anything they have too many youngins that will be getting PT.

Your meaningless narratives mean less than my meaningless "stats" (if thats what you want to call them). What I'm saying actually occurred in real life.

2-ONE-5
08-01-2014, 12:49 PM
we dont know what the bench is until they play. Vonleh is highly touted and fits well next to Al on both ends and Zeller should be much improved with a year under his belt, he is too talented not to figure some of it out.

Chaotic98
08-01-2014, 01:20 PM
And look at the top teams in the league every year, they are all "aging". Vets win in this league. Either way, Knicks have more than a few youngings sprinkled across the roster. I think they have good balance of super vet (Jose, Prigs), vet (JR, Amare, Melo, Dalembert) and youngins (Shump, Hardaway, Early, Tyler, Aldrich, Larkin).

The Knicks, Nets and Hornets will be fighting for 8th. I don't see the Knicks making it for the sole reason their talent and defense is weak. Outside of Melo, they have very little. As a Raptors fan, I have seen Calderon and Bargs play D on the same roster, and there will be a lot of opp. interior scoring when they are on at the same time, especially since Tyson is no longer clogging the middle. Delambert can't play 30 mins and be a good contributor and unless Amare has a miracle and JR stops being stupid, it can be a long year for the Knicks. After this season, their future seems brighter as Amare, Bargs and a 40+ million comes off the books. However since they are over cap, it won't be that huge cap space.

Based on the current rosters, barring injury or trade, Charlotte has a better roster. But since the KNicks play in the Atlantic and the teams there are weaker, they have an easier schedule.

IndyRealist
08-01-2014, 01:22 PM
Hardaway is a younger, shorter, more dynamic version of Novak and we didn't have Hardaway that year. He might not be as automatic as Novak when wide open (no one is), but he can at least get shots off when a defender is in the contesting zone like Novak couldn't. He will be a 40% 3 point shooter for us this year.

And did I miss the part where Calderon isn't the best 3 point shooter in the league like every year?

And Prigs who shot close to 45% last year if I'm not mistaken?

We have 3 Novak's this year instead of 1 and all three can bring something else to the table outside of stand still floor spacing.

Prigioni and shumpert were both on that team two years ago. The only significant swaps are hardaway for novak, calderon for kidd, and dalembert for chandler. That's a net loss. THJ might break even, but dalembert is not even close.

And you can say whatever you want about quitting on their coach, almost all of the net change in wins can be tied to losing kidd and novak, and chandler missing games.

I'm a big fan of calderon, and he could be the difference maker if you can hide him on D. He's going to provide a lot of spacing and really is perfect for the triangle. I have serious doubts, however, than anyone else will be a fit this year. The triangle is difficult to learn and requires everyone to be a decision maker.

NBA_Starter
08-01-2014, 08:15 PM
We are talking about a contender here, how did the Knicks come into play?

bigsams50
08-02-2014, 02:36 AM
When did this become a Hornets vs Knicks thread?

NBA_Starter
08-02-2014, 09:38 PM
When did this become a Hornets vs Knicks thread?

It didn't take long lol.