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View Full Version : Dallas Mavericks to sign Al Farouq Aminu and Jameer Nelson



LTBaByyy
07-23-2014, 09:53 PM
This team is deep!

Nelson-Felton-Mekel
Ellis-Harris-Jefferson-Ledo
Parsons-Al Farouq Aminu-Crowder
Dirk-Wright
Chandler-Greg Smith-Bernard James

gatkins11
07-23-2014, 09:54 PM
:dance:

ThuglifeJ
07-23-2014, 09:56 PM
They got aminu too? like that


Not big on the Nelson signing though.

jerellh528
07-23-2014, 09:57 PM
Damn, wanted him in la

Cal827
07-23-2014, 09:57 PM
Hmm, good signing. Depth. I have them over Houston in the standings this year.

Oh, it's an LT thread.... one min

:dance:

P&GRealist
07-23-2014, 09:59 PM
They are now definitely the 2nd best team in the Southwest division behind the defending champs.

goingfor28
07-23-2014, 09:59 PM
Good deal I'm a big AFA fan

GiantsSwaGG
07-23-2014, 10:00 PM
Do the LT

:dance:

ThuglifeJ
07-23-2014, 10:01 PM
:crying::crying::crying::crying::crying::crying: WHY VINCE. WHYYYY

don't get me wrong I love the Grizzlies.. but dam Mavs are gonna be legit

still1ballin
07-23-2014, 10:03 PM
Do the LT

:dance:

jerellh528
07-23-2014, 10:04 PM
Mavs just might be the third best team in the nba behind San Antonio and Okc.

P&GRealist
07-23-2014, 10:06 PM
I think the Mavs might actually be a better more balanced team next yr than the Clippers. And I really think this is OKC's last real shot to get it together and actually win. No more potential and "Westy and KD" taking the next step. Watchout West, the Mavs will be LEGIT! And watch out Spurs, this is a team with Vince, Calderon and Dalembert that took you to 7. They've replaced them with Parsons, Jameer and Chandler.

LTBaByyy
07-23-2014, 10:09 PM
:dance: Ayyyyy Do the LT
:dance: Ayyyyy Do the LT
:dance: Ayyyyy Do the LT

Been 3 long miserable years since we been contenders, it feels good to be back!

P&GRealist
07-23-2014, 10:11 PM
Signing Aminu probably means Marion is gone. But where does he go? Maybe a contender like the Bulls?

gatkins11
07-23-2014, 10:13 PM
Signing Aminu probably means Marion is gone. But where does he go? Maybe a contender like the Bulls?

Probably. I think that's the most likely destination.

LTBaByyy
07-23-2014, 10:19 PM
S/O to Mavs GM Donnie Nelson.

Chandler Parsons
Tyson Chandler
Jameer Nelson
Richard Jefferson
Raymond Felton
Al Farouq Aminu
Greg Smith

sens#11fan
07-23-2014, 10:23 PM
This team is deep, but I don't think they have what it takes to win it all. I could be wrong, but they just don't have that star player who can takeover a game. I'm not completely sold on Monta's ability to do so, will have to see if parsons can take that next step. However, If Dirk and Tyson were in their prime then it would be a diff story. I know you dont need a star player to win(Pistons, etc), but it makes it easier.

seikou8
07-23-2014, 10:28 PM
if tyson and dirk were little young man but top 5 seed no doubt

DRose7
07-23-2014, 10:28 PM
This team is deep, but I don't think they have what it takes to win it all. I could be wrong, but they just don't have that star player who can takeover a game. I'm not completely sold on Monta's ability to do so, will have to see if parsons can take that next step. However, If Dirk and Tyson were in their prime then it would be a diff story. I know you dont need a star player to win(Pistons, etc), but it makes it easier.

I wouldn't bet on it right now, but offseason aint over yet…if we can trade for Jr Smith (for Brandan Wright), then I'm writing us in for championship…Cubes should also look into signing Emeka Okafor for the minimum

LTBaByyy
07-23-2014, 10:28 PM
This team is deep, but I don't think they have what it takes to win it all. I could be wrong, but they just don't have that star player who can takeover a game. I'm not completely sold on Monta's ability to do so, will have to see if parsons can take that next step. However, If Dirk and Tyson were in their prime then it would be a diff story. I know you dont need a star player to win(Pistons, etc), but it makes it easier.

Did you watch the Mavs last season? Dirk and Monta took over every game they won. The problem was that we had average at best role players.

Dirk still averages 20+ PPG every night

Plus Monta, Parsons, and Tyson

Then Jameer Nelson, Devin Harris, Raymond Felton, Richard Jefferson, Brandan Wright, Al Farouq Aminu, Jae Crowder, Greg Smith

Then Gal Mekel, Ricky Ledo, Bernard James

sens#11fan
07-23-2014, 10:30 PM
Did you watch the Mavs last season? Dirk and Monta took over every game they won. The problem was that we had average at best role players.

Dirk still averages 20+ PPG every night

Plus Monta, Parsons, and Tyson

Then Jameer Nelson, Devin Harris, Raymond Felton, Richard Jefferson, Brandan Wright, Al Farouq Aminu, Jae Crowder, Greg Smith

Then Gal Mekel, Ricky Ledo, Bernard James

I could be wrong, have to see how Parsons turns out.

Mr.B
07-23-2014, 10:31 PM
Signing Aminu probably means Marion is gone. But where does he go? Maybe a contender like the Bulls?
I honestly would like to see him go to Cleveland (especially if they get Love). His defense is still elite and he brings a very strong veteran influence. They would have a great mix of youth and vets. Plus Marion has become one of my favorite players since he's been a Mav and I want to see him to be able to continue to compete for a title.

gatkins11
07-23-2014, 10:32 PM
I wouldn't bet on it right now, but offseason aint over yet…if we can trade for Jr Smith (for Brandan Wright), then I'm writing us in for championship…Cubes should also look into signing Emeka Okafor for the minimum

Not with that contract.

DRose7
07-23-2014, 10:38 PM
Not with that contract.

Who's contract ? Jr Smith, he's actually pretty unpaid imo, 6mill and 6.4 mill remaining is far below what he's worth…he had a bad season last year, but coming off a knee injury ill cut him some slack…Carlisle will make him have his best career

DR_1
07-23-2014, 10:38 PM
Mavs are my sleeper team out West for this year. They look good Dallas fans!

JEDean89
07-23-2014, 10:45 PM
I really like the makeup of this team, i don't know if they can beat SAS this year, but IMO Carlisle is the second best coach in the NBA, if Dirk catches fire and SAS gets the injury bug, I don't see any team in the East beating them in the finals.

Mr.B
07-23-2014, 10:47 PM
This team is deep, but I don't think they have what it takes to win it all. I could be wrong, but they just don't have that star player who can takeover a game. I'm not completely sold on Monta's ability to do so, will have to see if parsons can take that next step. However, If Dirk and Tyson were in their prime then it would be a diff story. I know you dont need a star player to win(Pistons, etc), but it makes it easier.
That's the beauty of the Mavs. With the way they share the ball they don't need 1 guy to be able to take over. Next to the Spurs they play the best "team" ball in the NBA. Carlisle is all about match ups. There will be some nights where Dirk is the man, other nights where its Monte or Parsons. They are not hell bent on force feeding one guy. They also rarely rely on isolation plays. So whoever has the hot hand Carlisle will pick and roll/pick and pop teams to death with that player.

NBA_Starter
07-23-2014, 10:47 PM
I had no idea AFA was still in the league.

IndyRealist
07-23-2014, 10:53 PM
LT, I need a wins prediction so I can take the under ;)

NYKNYGNYY
07-23-2014, 10:55 PM
Wow great pick up

LTBaByyy
07-23-2014, 10:59 PM
LT, I need a wins prediction so I can take the under ;)

Haha 57-25. 3rd seed. Lose in Western Conference Finals

akesh99
07-23-2014, 10:59 PM
Excellent overhaul by the Mavs this offseason. Have definitely been the most aggressive team in FA and it shows. If they were in the East that team is almost certainly 1st seed IMO. Being in the West though I peg them as a 5/6 seed. I'm excited to see how they gel over the course of the season

3ballbomber
07-23-2014, 11:00 PM
Dallas fans , ya'll must be very excited. Looking real good.

Vinny642
07-23-2014, 11:10 PM
Bye AFA

Mavs, just warning you.... he is a big liability on offense... he becomes brain-dead lol. Decent defender and good rebounder.

ThuglifeJ
07-23-2014, 11:11 PM
Any Mavs fan wanna make a sig bet Mavs vs Grizzlies?

I'm feelin ballsy

Thumper 88
07-23-2014, 11:17 PM
Bye AFA

Mavs, just warning you.... he is a big liability on offense... he becomes brain-dead lol. Decent defender and good rebounder.
Good to know, all we need from him is defense

Jenceman
07-23-2014, 11:19 PM
Aminu is a very solid signing. He'll give the Mavs good defense at both forward positions.

Nelson...meh. The Mavs are trotting out a bunch of over the hill PGs out there hoping to squeeze out some of their past from one of em.

THE MTL
07-23-2014, 11:35 PM
They building a squad over there in Dallas. I have them in my Top 4 in the West behind Spurs, Thunder, and Clippers.

rockets-fan
07-23-2014, 11:38 PM
Definitely puts tem above Houston if they were not already

Mr.B
07-23-2014, 11:39 PM
Bye AFA

Mavs, just warning you.... he is a big liability on offense... he becomes brain-dead lol. Decent defender and good rebounder.
Like Tyson defense is all they will really need from him. Like Marion he will be the teams primary wing defender. The bulk of his points will come on offensive rebound outbacks and the occasional lob pass/dunk. On the chance that he will actually have to take a 3 point shot we will all all just cringe and hope for the best. He honestly can not be any worse than Marion was on offense last year.

kobe4thewinbang
07-23-2014, 11:50 PM
Dallas should be ballin next season. At least make the 2nd round this time, maybe pull an upset to reach the west finals.

Nikeman
07-23-2014, 11:55 PM
The only real major ADDITIONS are Tyson Chandler and Parsons.

Nelson is a replacement for Calderson, Aminu for Marion, Richard Jefferson for Vince. I'd argue the role players last year were better,

Calderson>Nelson, Marion>Aminu, Carter>RJ

But, still a deep team with a great off-season

*Superman*
07-24-2014, 12:01 AM
I'll be rooting for Dallas in the West. Happy for Nelson, it's an ideal team for him to be on.

c.c.
07-24-2014, 12:46 AM
Definitely puts tem above Houston if they were not already

Yeah they are so much better than Houston. I see them sweeping the season series against us easily. I really fear those Mavericks man.

P&GRealist
07-24-2014, 12:51 AM
This team is deep, but I don't think they have what it takes to win it all. I could be wrong, but they just don't have that star player who can takeover a game. I'm not completely sold on Monta's ability to do so, will have to see if parsons can take that next step. However, If Dirk and Tyson were in their prime then it would be a diff story. I know you dont need a star player to win(Pistons, etc), but it makes it easier.

Why not? Dirk is aging like fine wine, they got Tyson back, the defensive anchor of their 2011 chip team. They got younger, quicker and faster compared to the 2011 team. Now Carlisle just has to get that team gelling defensively together, which he's capable of because he's such a great coach.

P&GRealist
07-24-2014, 12:51 AM
Yeah they are so much better than Houston. I see them sweeping the playoff series against us easily. I really fear those Mavericks man.
fixed

Mr.B
07-24-2014, 12:55 AM
Yeah they are so much better than Houston. I see them sweeping the season series against us easily. I really fear those Mavericks man.
The regular season is not that important when it comes to head to head matchups. Obviously you would like to use the regular season to get home court but head to head games have no bearing when it comes to who has an advantage in the playoffs. How did the Rockets fair against the Blazers during the regular season last year?

c.c.
07-24-2014, 12:57 AM
fixed

We not making the playoffs. Harden going to let everyone score on him and Dwight not going to hit his free throws. We let Parson walk and he was our most valuable player. I guess we just tank this upcoming season :mad:

Iron24th
07-24-2014, 01:02 AM
they got plenty of depth at SF position, but losing good defenders like marion and dalembert is not as pointless as people think, tyson chandler better plays 82 games for them, cause it will not be ellis, dirk or parsons who will defend.

P&GRealist
07-24-2014, 01:06 AM
We not making the playoffs. Harden going to let everyone score on him and Dwight not going to hit his free throws. We let Parson walk and he was our most valuable player. I guess we just tank this upcoming season :mad:

I don't know about that. I just know that should expect quite a bit of Dwightmare drama this season, that's for sure.

P&GRealist
07-24-2014, 01:08 AM
they got plenty of depth at SF position, but losing good defenders like marion and dalembert is not as pointless as people think, tyson chandler better plays 82 games for them, cause it will not be ellis, dirk or parsons who will defend.

Tyson is as good defensively if not better than Dalembert. However, I do think they need one more big man to back Tyson up.

shep33
07-24-2014, 01:11 AM
Mavs have had an awesome offseason. Props to Cubes.

Iron24th
07-24-2014, 01:12 AM
Tyson is as good defensively if not better than Dalembert. However, I do think they need one more big man to back Tyson up.

the C position will be ok as long as tyson is on the court, but since he's injury prone, don't count too much on that, and they got no one who's as good as marion on defense on the wing.

Bostonjorge
07-24-2014, 01:15 AM
Dallas looking deep. I still got them in the second tier in the west.

1st tier
Spurs OKC clippers top 3 seeds

2nd tier
Blazers Dallas warriors

3rd tier
Memphis suns rockets

Mr.B
07-24-2014, 01:17 AM
the C position will be ok as long as tyson is on the court, but since he's injury prone, don't count too much on that, and they got no one who's as good as marion on defense on the wing.
Actually they just signed someone tonight that is just as good as Marion on defense (and just as bad on offense) but is only 23 years old. He's also just as good a rebounder as Marion.

Iron24th
07-24-2014, 01:31 AM
Actually they just signed someone tonight that is just as good as Marion on defense (and just as bad on offense) but is only 23 years old. He's also just as good a rebounder as Marion.

I disagree, marion is a very good lockdown defender, aminu is good on D, but nothing like marion's level imo

anyway, you got way better offensively, so we'll see how balanced you'll be

Mr.B
07-24-2014, 01:38 AM
I disagree, marion is a very good lockdown defender, aminu is good on D, but nothing like marion's level imo

anyway, you got way better offensively, so we'll see how balanced you'll be
To be honest I really don't know much about Aminu. I've just read that he's an extremely good defender and a good rebounder. Also that he started a lot gamed for N.O. last year and he's only 23. Oh, and that he's pretty bad on offense. Marion is about 12 years older but still a lock down defender. No kidding, dude is still a beast on defense but he will also shoot you out of a game if he gets the chance. If Aminu can give the Mavs half of what Marion did on the defensive end he'll be a steal for the vet min.

Iron24th
07-24-2014, 01:46 AM
To be honest I really don't know much about Aminu. I've just read that he's an extremely good defender and a good rebounder. Also that he started a lot gamed for N.O. last year and he's only 23. Oh, and that he's pretty bad on offense. Marion is about 12 years older but still a lock down defender. No kidding, dude is still a beast on defense but he will also shoot you out of a game if he gets the chance. If Aminu can give the Mavs half of what Marion did on the defensive end he'll be a steal for the vet min.

fair enough

ThuglifeJ
07-24-2014, 01:53 AM
We not making the playoffs. Harden going to let everyone score on him and Dwight not going to hit his free throws. We let Parson walk and he was our most valuable player. I guess we just tank this upcoming season :mad:

This is honestly not too far of what will happen.. Houston has a chance of sneaking in the 8th seed though I don't think they're any better than 10 teams in the West.

Meth
07-24-2014, 02:53 AM
I remember the hype that surrounded Aminu during draft day and his rookie season. A great athlete indeed but he never really panned out offensively or surpassed expectations yet. He's still young and has upside but let's not get carried away with this signing. It's fairly concerning that he agreed to a short term (minimum?) deal.

PurpleLynch
07-24-2014, 05:06 AM
Good deals for Dallas. Aminu is not Marion(who was and is criminally underrated imo),but he's young and big.He should work at sf for them.Nelson is a better backup than Felton.

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 05:37 AM
great moves by the mavs I already had them top 3 before they signed these guys take it from a knicks fan jameer is a huge upgrade over felton

RLundi
07-24-2014, 06:12 AM
Not totally sure why people are saying Mavs are contenders or a top team again.

Is it just me that sees all these moves as putting together spare parts and hoping for the best? I think the Mavs will be where they were last year: a low playoff team :shrug:

c.c.
07-24-2014, 06:12 AM
This is honestly not too far of what will happen.. Houston has a chance of sneaking in the 8th seed though I don't think they're any better than 10 teams in the West.

Yeah we might be .500 or little bit under. We are so terrible, all you guys on PSD are right and always right.

c.c.
07-24-2014, 06:16 AM
Not totally sure why people are saying Mavs are contenders or a top team again.

Is it just me that sees all these moves as putting together spare parts and hoping for the best? I think the Mavs will be where they were last year: a low playoff team :shrug:

No they are championship team. They sign Chandler Parsons and instantly became a championship contender while the Rockets won't even make the playoffs this year. I'm so angry (sarcasm)

FraziersKnicks
07-24-2014, 06:40 AM
Dallas are having a nice off season.

PurpleLynch
07-24-2014, 07:21 AM
Dallas are having a nice off season.

Agree,they are trying to pull another 2011 on they league. They are older,but they added some good pieces.

Thumper 88
07-24-2014, 08:06 AM
Yeah they are so much better than Houston. I see them sweeping the season series against us easily. I really fear those Mavericks man.
Wanna Sig bet or maybe self imposed PSD ban?

GiantsSwaGG
07-24-2014, 08:11 AM
Wanna Sig bet or maybe self imposed PSD ban?

He mad bro

GiantsSwaGG
07-24-2014, 08:13 AM
This move means Felton might not have a spot on this team and even if he does it won't be a major one, just for that this is a GREAT signing!

Thumper 88
07-24-2014, 08:13 AM
Not totally sure why people are saying Mavs are contenders or a top team again.

Is it just me that sees all these moves as putting together spare parts and hoping for the best? I think the Mavs will be where they were last year: a low playoff team :shrug:
Will someone do a Sig bet or some kind of bet with me??? Houston fans won't other fans won't but some people seem confident Mavs will be the same as last year.. Back up that talk with a bet no?

RLundi
07-24-2014, 08:29 AM
Will someone do a Sig bet or some kind of bet with me??? Houston fans won't other fans won't but some people seem confident Mavs will be the same as last year.. Back up that talk with a bet no?

Sig bet, seriously?

Lol why be so juvenile? You're way too invested in this. I couldn't care less lol.

Vinylman
07-24-2014, 09:48 AM
why would people want aminu INSTEAD of Marion... I can understand wanting him IN ADDITION to Marion but I really am not buying this team being significantly better other than adding parsons who doesn't play a lot of D...

Is Dallas still looking at Marion?

Chronz
07-24-2014, 09:57 AM
Good move, solid depth signings but why are so many of you thinking this moves the needle that much. Mavs prolly wont contend IMO

Mr.B
07-24-2014, 10:06 AM
why would people want aminu INSTEAD of Marion... I can understand wanting him IN ADDITION to Marion but I really am not buying this team being significantly better other than adding parsons who doesn't play a lot of D...

Is Dallas still looking at Marion?
Age is the main reason. Aminu is 23 and Marion is 36. At this point Marion is what he is. He's a finished product. Aminu has room to expand his game. You'll see him become a much better player under Carlisle.

kdspurman
07-24-2014, 10:20 AM
I think the Mavs might actually be a better more balanced team next yr than the Clippers. And I really think this is OKC's last real shot to get it together and actually win. No more potential and "Westy and KD" taking the next step. Watchout West, the Mavs will be LEGIT! And watch out Spurs, this is a team with Vince, Calderon and Dalembert that took you to 7. They've replaced them with Parsons, Jameer and Chandler.


I don't know about that. You still have to go out and get familiar with your teammates, and build trust/chemistry. I don't think they're more balanced than the Clippers necessarily. And yes the Mavs took the Spurs to 7, but 1 could argue they figured out the Mavs in game 7 with the way they won. I think people get slightly carried away when a team adds a bunch of guys in the off-season, but at the end of the day, still need to go out there and put all the pieces together. On paper, Dallas has improved of course. But that doesn't always equate to a successful season as we've seen many times.

I think they're a dangerous team to face in the playoffs, but that's how the West is usually anyway

kdspurman
07-24-2014, 10:33 AM
I think Dallas finishes in the 5-7 area during the regular season personally. Which is not a knock on them at all, they could get 50 wins, I just think people are not giving enough value to the teams that stood pat and have continuity in their favor.

Thumper 88
07-24-2014, 10:44 AM
They won 49 games with dale as the center, I'm pretty sure they will get at least 50 barring any significant injury

ThuglifeJ
07-24-2014, 10:48 AM
This is honestly not too far of what will happen.. Houston has a chance of sneaking in the 8th seed though I don't think they're any better than 10 teams in the West.

Yeah we might be .500 or little bit under. We are so terrible, all you guys on PSD are right and always right.

Agreed

ThuglifeJ
07-24-2014, 11:07 AM
Not totally sure why people are saying Mavs are contenders or a top team again.

Is it just me that sees all these moves as putting together spare parts and hoping for the best? I think the Mavs will be where they were last year: a low playoff team :shrug:
Will someone do a Sig bet or some kind of bet with me??? Houston fans won't other fans won't but some people seem confident Mavs will be the same as last year.. Back up that talk with a bet no?

I already said I want to do a SIG bet..

Grizzlies finish better or we could do a small one grizz beat mavs in first meeting.

kdspurman
07-24-2014, 11:23 AM
They won 49 games with dale as the center, I'm pretty sure they will get at least 50 barring any significant injury

But what happens in a previous year doesn't have any impact on what happens the next year, regardless of roster changes. It's a new season, and a new team, and Carlisle will spend time figuring out what rotations work together, who to play in certain situations, etc... Sometimes while figuring that stuff out, you lose a few games that maybe you win if you know your team well enough.

Vinylman
07-24-2014, 11:31 AM
Age is the main reason. Aminu is 23 and Marion is 36. At this point Marion is what he is. He's a finished product. Aminu has room to expand his game. You'll see him become a much better player under Carlisle.

I didn't say you shouldn't take aminu but are you still trying to get marion back...

as far as him growing ... meh... he really isn't much different now than his rookie year and got plenty of run in New Orleans... he is a solid rotational player but it's not like he is gonna get a shot or anything

Thumper 88
07-24-2014, 11:32 AM
But what happens in a previous year doesn't have any impact on what happens the next year, regardless of roster changes. It's a new season, and a new team, and Carlisle will spend time figuring out what rotations work together, who to play in certain situations, etc... Sometimes while figuring that stuff out, you lose a few games that maybe you win if you know your team well enough.
No I understand completely, I see this team being better than last year so winning one more game then last year's team should happen if that's the case

Thumper 88
07-24-2014, 11:34 AM
I already said I want to do a SIG bet..

Grizzlies finish better or we could do a small one grizz beat mavs in first meeting.

I missed that.

Dallas finishes with a higher playoff seed higher than the grizz? Where the Sig until after the finals are over?

kdspurman
07-24-2014, 11:43 AM
No I understand completely, I see this team being better than last year so winning one more game then last year's team should happen if that's the case

I agree. I think I saw someone say they would be a 3rd seed, which IMO is a stretch.

Mr.B
07-24-2014, 11:46 AM
I didn't say you shouldn't take aminu but are you still trying to get marion back...

as far as him growing ... meh... he really isn't much different now than his rookie year and got plenty of run in New Orleans... he is a solid rotational player but it's not like he is gonna get a shot or anything

I get what you were saying. And when I say he should be able to expand his game I'm not saying that he's going to become a star or anything like that. He'll have a similar role to what Marion had. His primary role will be as a wing defender. He's still only 23 and joining a veteran team should help him. He likely won't average the same ppg or rpg that he got in N.O. Because he won't be playing as much but if he can work on hitting the open 3, bring some energy off the bench and be a solid defender/rebounder

Mr.B
07-24-2014, 11:48 AM
Sorry I hit send to early... To answer your question about Marion, no they are not really looking to bring him back. The signing of Aminu pretty much eliminated that chance.

RateSports
07-24-2014, 11:50 AM
I am insane but I say

Cavs vs. Mavs

If Cavs get Love of course.

Stinkyoutsider
07-24-2014, 12:12 PM
I would like to see the Mavs add one more quality center to the rotation. Just in case Dirk or Tyson picks up an injury.

I like what the Mavs did this year. Even though the lost out on Melo, they figured out they had a good team already and needed a few good players instead of one great one. Do it by committee instead of relying on one or 2 guys.

Dirk really can focus on scoring now since he's got Chandler back in the team. And, if he needs a break, he can give the ball to Ellis.

Mavs are going to be a team no one wants to play in the playoffs. Especially when the team is coached by a great playoff coach who is an expert at making adjustments.

Thumper 88
07-24-2014, 12:15 PM
I agree. I think I saw someone say they would be a 3rd seed, which IMO is a stretch.

Agree, I see 4-6 seed

But I see them being really good in the playoffs no matter the seed

kdspurman
07-24-2014, 12:31 PM
Agree, I see 4-6 seed

But I see them being really good in the playoffs no matter the seed

That's about how I feel. But there's so much that can happen from now till the playoffs it's tough to predict. Especially in the west. There are surprise teams, disappointing seasons, you just never know what's going to happen.

Red_Pill
07-24-2014, 12:33 PM
And I really think this is OKC's last real shot to get it together and actually win. No more potential and "Westy and KD" taking the next step.

Why? Perkins comes off the books after this year which frees up around 10 million. Clay Bennett will be forced to spend money if he wants to keep Durant. They still have two years to get it done, but I do think they will get it done this year. Morrow will be a bigger addition than people think.

And Durant and Westbrook both have room to improve. Durant needs to develop a post game. If he does, he''ll be truly unstoppable. And Westbrook needs to be consistent in making smarter decisions. He's been making great strides towards that direction. If he can be on Derrick Rose MVP level and Durant can improve slightly and continue his MVP level play, nobody will be able to beat them. They're barely at the start of their primes.

And I still think if Ibaka had been 100% from game 1 of the Spurs series, we would have beat them and the Miami team that showed up in the finals.

ThuglifeJ
07-24-2014, 01:09 PM
I already said I want to do a SIG bet..

Grizzlies finish better or we could do a small one grizz beat mavs in first meeting.

I missed that.

Dallas finishes with a higher playoff seed higher than the grizz? Where the Sig until after the finals are over?

I'd do that. I'd do a mini sig bet for their first game too

marj987
07-24-2014, 01:09 PM
Mavs still being doubted? Oh wel....we'll just see what they do this year I suppose.

nyKnicks126
07-24-2014, 01:21 PM
Champs :laugh:

Thumper 88
07-24-2014, 02:04 PM
I'd do that. I'd do a mini sig bet for their first game too
Deal on the better season bet

Mr.B
07-24-2014, 02:48 PM
That's about how I feel. But there's so much that can happen from now till the playoffs it's tough to predict. Especially in the west. There are surprise teams, disappointing seasons, you just never know what's going to happen.

Not to mention if teams make a move at the trade deadline.

Mr.B
07-24-2014, 05:24 PM
It's official.

Jameer Nelson signs with Mavericks for 2-years, $6 million, according to @ShamsCharania

BlondeBomber41
07-24-2014, 05:28 PM
To everyone asking "Why would they want Aminu, why not bring back Marion?"

The Mavs rescinded their bird rights to Marion when they went after Parsons for cap room. Since they used their cap room on Parsons and their $2.7 million dollar exception on Jameer Nelson. Marion certainly wasn't signing for the minimum, so he isn't an option. Marion wasn't even willing to sign for the $2.7 million dollar exception. He wants closer to 4-5 million and from what I hear, still wants to start. I'd LOVE to have him back off our bench, but it isn't happening.

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 05:38 PM
I guess people don't think defense is important to win titles anymore with all the Dallas hype. They are a playoff team for sure but all of this talk about being an elite contender in the west or even a HCA team is laughable at best. They have great depth and firepower but lack the star power or defense to contend with the likes of SAS/LAC/OKC or even GS/Hou in a 7 game series. All they did essentially was move into the 2nd or 3rd tier in the west of mid playoff seeding.

They will continue to have an ATROCIOUS defense that's easily exposed, far more so with the loss of Marion for Parsons.

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 05:38 PM
Oh and I'm happy for Mavs fans and love Dirk. Just saying people need to slow down is all.

DoMeFavors
07-24-2014, 05:45 PM
Mavericks have a hell of a team, looks good only problem is they arent built around a star or have any stud in his prime on their team. If Dirk was pre 2012 on that team they would be serious contender. Dirk isnt close to what he used to be. So I have a hard time seeing them going anywhere. Thats the problem when you have a team like this around a guy who is past his prime. Who is Mavericks second best player? Parsons or Monta?

BlondeBomber41
07-24-2014, 06:08 PM
I guess people don't think defense is important to win titles anymore with all the Dallas hype. They are a playoff team for sure but all of this talk about being an elite contender in the west or even a HCA team is laughable at best. They have great depth and firepower but lack the star power or defense to contend with the likes of SAS/LAC/OKC or even GS/Hou in a 7 game series. All they did essentially was move into the 2nd or 3rd tier in the west of mid playoff seeding.

They will continue to have an ATROCIOUS defense that's easily exposed, far more so with the loss of Marion for Parsons.

Your reasoning is ridiculous. They can't contend with teams like Houston, Golden State, the Clippers or OKC when they've improved and those teams haven't done anything to improve? The Mavs took the Spurs to 7 games last year, the only team to give the Spurs any real trouble in the playoffs, including a team that you listed as teams the Mavs have "no chance" to contend with. Did Portland make them sweat at all? Did OKC? DId the defending champion Heat? No, but Dallas did. Now they've improved.

The Mavs biggest problem last year was PG defense. Jose Calderon couldn't guard his own shadow. Devin Harris is a huge upgrade there defensively. Tyson Chandler is a huge upgrade over Samuel Dalembert. Chandler Parsons is much better defensively then given credit, I saw an interview with Kobe where Kobe was praising how hard Parsons defends. Am I saying he is an All NBA defender? No, but he's solid at the very least. Dirk and Monta are very underrated in terms of what they bring defensively.

Will this team be a top 5-10 defense? Probably not, and a lot of that will have to do with the fact that they'll play at such a high pace that the defensive numbers will look skewed. It's just funny that you list teams like Golden State and Houston, teams that can't stop anyone, in your listing.

I'd argue that the loss of Marions defense isn't nearly as significant as the value Parsons will add offensively. When Marion was on the floor with Dirk, Monta and Sammy D, he was basically useless. Parsons is a MUCH better shooter, creator, floor spacer, everything. For the small downgrade in defense, he's a gigantic upgrade in offense.

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 06:18 PM
Your reasoning is ridiculous. They can't contend with teams like Houston, Golden State, the Clippers or OKC when they've improved and those teams haven't done anything to improve? The Mavs took the Spurs to 7 games last year, the only team to give the Spurs any real trouble in the playoffs, including a team that you listed as teams the Mavs have "no chance" to contend with. Did Portland make them sweat at all? Did OKC? DId the defending champion Heat? No, but Dallas did. Now they've improved.

The Mavs biggest problem last year was PG defense. Jose Calderon couldn't guard his own shadow. Devin Harris is a huge upgrade there defensively. Tyson Chandler is a huge upgrade over Samuel Dalembert. Chandler Parsons is much better defensively then given credit, I saw an interview with Kobe where Kobe was praising how hard Parsons defends. Am I saying he is an All NBA defender? No, but he's solid at the very least. Dirk and Monta are very underrated in terms of what they bring defensively.

Will this team be a top 5-10 defense? Probably not, and a lot of that will have to do with the fact that they'll play at such a high pace that the defensive numbers will look skewed. It's just funny that you list teams like Golden State and Houston, teams that can't stop anyone, in your listing.

I'd argue that the loss of Marions defense isn't nearly as significant as the value Parsons will add offensively. When Marion was on the floor with Dirk, Monta and Sammy D, he was basically useless. Parsons is a MUCH better shooter, creator, floor spacer, everything. For the small downgrade in defense, he's a gigantic upgrade in offense.

As a Clippers fan I can speak first hand to your teams atrocious D considering you allowed the Clippers not just one but TWO 20+ point comebacks last year in the 4th quarter of games. Now you subtract Marion who was your best defender and add the likes of Parsons/Nelson who are horrid defenders. Not to mention Dirk will be yet another year older and while still a great player, is a step down from being a superstar now.

Just because the Mavs matched up well with one team, doesn't mean they are an elite team in the conference. Remember when a couple years back the Knicks swept Miami by like 20 ppg on average? How did that turn out for them? The west is a blood bath. The top 3 teams in the west OKC/SAS/LAC are top 10 in offense AND defense. I just don't see the Mavs being in this discussion, or anywhere close.

If you want to call them a darkhorse playoff team, I have no issue with it. To call them a title contender or an elite team out west though is an insult and shortsighted. BTW your ignorant comment about the Warriors/Rockets defense is exposed easily. You realize the Warriors had the 3rd best defense in the league last year right? The Rockets were 11th or 12th. What were the Mavs? 22nd ranked defense. Who did they add on the defensive end to improve that significantly?

Tyson Chandler is an upgrade over Dalembert, but had a clear decline last year and given his age/injury history, I expect it to continue until proven otherwise. That being said, you may find it interesting that Dalembert had similar defensive impact last year to Chandler, so if you're expecting a huge jump you will be disappointed. Sounds like Mavs fans are getting a little delusional now.

PS.... have you not been following sports very long? Just because you don't add a bunch of players... it doesn't mean you haven't improved.

The Clippers and Spurs both added nice pieces this summer and got better on paper. Clippers will also take a leap just based on the fact that Blake and DJ still have a lot of upside and another year under a good coach in that system will give a boost. Unlike Dirk, Griffin isn't on the decline.

The Warriors will be a lot better simply from having Bogut back (hopefully in the playoffs this time). OKC didn't add much... but when you have two legit superstars and a great 3rd player there isn't a hell of a lot to do. They are going the Spurs route of developing what they have. Which often times is the best answer. Teams that are already contenders (unlike Dallas) merely tweak usually, rather than swing for the fences with trades/signings.

beldugo
07-24-2014, 06:18 PM
Mavericks have a hell of a team, looks good only problem is they arent built around a star or have any stud in his prime on their team. If Dirk was pre 2012 on that team they would be serious contender. Dirk isnt close to what he used to be. So I have a hard time seeing them going anywhere. Thats the problem when you have a team like this around a guy who is past his prime. Who is Mavericks second best player? Parsons or Monta?

Dirk is quite good and his numbers show it. He was in his prime from 2004 through 2008 and guess what he won his only championship in 2011 when he had a 23.4 PER, this last season his PER was 23.6 so he's bassically the same Dirk who won the Mavericks a champion in 2011. And who said you need to have a stud in his prime to win a championship? Didn't you watch how the Spurs dominated the finals this past season? Can you tell me which one of their stars is in his prime?

Parsons is young an entering his prime and Ellis is a good player and still in his prime, that last question you ask just show you how good this team is, when you have two other players who are very good that you don't know which one is better it tells you great things about the depth of that certain team.

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 06:22 PM
I guess people don't think defense is important to win titles anymore with all the Dallas hype. They are a playoff team for sure but all of this talk about being an elite contender in the west or even a HCA team is laughable at best. They have great depth and firepower but lack the star power or defense to contend with the likes of SAS/LAC/OKC or even GS/Hou in a 7 game series. All they did essentially was move into the 2nd or 3rd tier in the west of mid playoff seeding.

They will continue to have an ATROCIOUS defense that's easily exposed, far more so with the loss of Marion for Parsons.

oh excuse me I didn't know the clippers were this defensive power house:laugh:

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 06:26 PM
oh excuse me I didn't know the clippers were this defensive power house:laugh:

Maybe not a powerhouse but they were the 8th ranked defense. A far cry from 22nd. You have to think another year under Doc and this should keep improving as Griffin/DJ grow.

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 06:34 PM
look man it boils down to this as of now I got the mavs at number 3 the only team that can possibly take that from them are the clippers but gsw hou por are not on the mavs level but if you look at the match ups with the clips the mavs have the advantage

let me just say this im from ny and I hate Tyson so im not biased I just feel like the mavs had a great offseason and they are going to be great next year

clippers mavs
paul > harris
Reddick < ellis
barnes <parsons
griffin = dirk
dj = Tyson

bench goes to the mavs

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 06:36 PM
Dirk/Ellis/Parsons= Elite offense, maybe worst trio in the league defensively.

Paul/Griffin/DJ= Elite offense, good defensive trio (CP3 and DJ on All NBA 1st defensive teams, Griffin solid this year on D)

Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka= Elite offense/good defensive trio. Ibaka a perennial DPOY candidate, Durant and Westbrook OKAY defenders.

Duncan/Leonard/Parker= Great offensive trio/Great defensive trio.

Curry/Iggy/Bogut= Good offensive trio/Elite defensive trio.

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 06:37 PM
Maybe not a powerhouse but they were the 8th ranked defense. A far cry from 22nd. You have to think another year under Doc and this should keep improving as Griffin/DJ grow.

ok well the mavs upgraded from dalembert to Tyson and believe it or not parsons can actually play good d and he's an upgrade over marion on offense by far their d will be fine the clippers need to worry about who is going to stop ellis

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 06:40 PM
look man it boils down to this as of now I got the mavs at number 3 the only team that can possibly take that from them are the clippers but gsw hou por are not on the mavs level but if you look at the match ups with the clips the mavs have the advantage

let me just say this im from ny and I hate Tyson so im not biased I just feel like the mavs had a great offseason and they are going to be great next year

clippers mavs
paul > harris
Reddick < ellis
barnes <parsons
griffin = dirk
dj = Tyson

bench goes to the mavs

Wait. How does Dirk=Griffin when Griffin had a clearly superior year last year and isn't in his prime, while Dirk is declining? Griffin ate Dirk alive last year H2H. DJ also had a pretty clear edge over Chandler last year. Also look again at Redick vs Ellis. Redick was CLEARLY the better player and the metrics show a MASSIVE edge. In fact the Mavericks don't have the advantage at a single position H2H vs the Clippers. Their only edge may end up being depth and that's debatable.

Mr.B
07-24-2014, 06:40 PM
I guess people don't think defense is important to win titles anymore with all the Dallas hype. They are a playoff team for sure but all of this talk about being an elite contender in the west or even a HCA team is laughable at best. They have great depth and firepower but lack the star power or defense to contend with the likes of SAS/LAC/OKC or even GS/Hou in a 7 game series. All they did essentially was move into the 2nd or 3rd tier in the west of mid playoff seeding.

They will continue to have an ATROCIOUS defense that's easily exposed, far more so with the loss of Marion for Parsons.

We shall see. It's definitely going to be fun watching the the Mavs and Clippers go at it this year. Good luck (not really) against Dallas' zone defense.

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 06:41 PM
Dirk/Ellis/Parsons= Elite offense, maybe worst trio in the league defensively.

Paul/Griffin/DJ= Elite offense, good defensive trio (CP3 and DJ on All NBA 1st defensive teams, Griffin solid this year on D)

Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka= Elite offense/good defensive trio. Ibaka a perennial DPOY candidate, Durant and Westbrook OKAY defenders.

Duncan/Leonard/Parker= Great offensive trio/Great defensive trio.

Curry/Iggy/Bogut= Good offensive trio/Elite defensive trio.

have you ever seen ellis or parsons play bro be truthful bcuz I don't think so lmao parsons was the 2nd best defender on the rox behind d12 and ellis even tho he is undersized is also a really good defender lmao stop being a homer the clippers lost dc that's a huge blow farmar isn't even half of the player dc is and blake sux on d get real lmao

beldugo
07-24-2014, 06:41 PM
Dirk/Ellis/Parsons= Elite offense, maybe worst trio in the league defensively.

Paul/Griffin/DJ= Elite offense, good defensive trio (CP3 and DJ on All NBA 1st defensive teams, Griffin solid this year on D)

Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka= Elite offense/good defensive trio. Ibaka a perennial DPOY candidate, Durant and Westbrook OKAY defenders.

Duncan/Leonard/Parker= Great offensive trio/Great defensive trio.

Curry/Iggy/Bogut= Good offensive trio/Elite defensive trio.

Why did you include Bogut in the GS trio and no Klay? Aren't you comparing the 3 best palyers on every team?

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 06:41 PM
I don't want to talk about the Clippers though, I do that enough. The point is... the Mavericks bandwagon is getting heavy for no good reason. Playoff team sure. Possible threat for the 4-5 seed along with GS/Hou/Portland yes. Top 3 seed or win the west? No. The Mavs will be on the tier 2 or 3 of the west competing for a 4-7 seed.

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 06:42 PM
Why did you include Bogut in the GS trio and no Klay? Aren't you comparing the 3 best palyers on every team?

Most GS fans argued Bogut was more valuable than Klay and the numbers, impact on the team seem to back that up. Although it wouldn't change much because Klay was a very respectable defender himself the last two years. People seem to be ignoring the fact that the Warriors were the 3rd ranked defense. They have a lot of great defenders on that team.

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 06:46 PM
have you ever seen ellis or parsons play bro be truthful bcuz I don't think so lmao parsons was the 2nd best defender on the rox behind d12 and ellis even tho he is undersized is also a really good defender lmao stop being a homer the clippers lost dc that's a huge blow farmar isn't even half of the player dc is and blake sux on d get real lmao


Jordan Farmar 2013-2014: 10 ppg, 5 apg, 3 rpg on 44 percent shooting from 3.

Darren Collison 2013-2014: 9 ppg, 3 apg, 3 rpg on 37 percent shooting from 3.

I'm trying to figure out where you got the math for "not half the player Collison is". Also did you forget about the guy named Spencer Hawes who fills a huge gap the Clippers have had the entire CP3 era? Which is a reliable back up big who could stretch the floor and rebound? Will his 14 ppg/8+ rpg and elite passing not help? Never mind that he just turned 26.

Blake doesn't suck on defense, he used to. Now he's a solid defender. Horrid defense at the rim but very solid PNR/ 1 on 1 defender.

beldugo
07-24-2014, 06:51 PM
Most GS fans argued Bogut was more valuable than Klay and the numbers, impact on the team seem to back that up. Although it wouldn't change much because Klay was a very respectable defender himself the last two years. People seem to be ignoring the fact that the Warriors were the 3rd ranked defense. They have a lot of great defenders on that team.

I understand. But you are ignoring the fact that there are two other players in the starting five, and the Mavs have two very good defensive players in Tyson Chandler and Devin Harris and I think you are really undervaluating Parsons defense.

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 06:52 PM
Wait. How does Dirk=Griffin when Griffin had a clearly superior year last year and isn't in his prime, while Dirk is declining? Griffin ate Dirk alive last year H2H. DJ also had a pretty clear edge over Chandler last year. Also look again at Redick vs Ellis. Redick was CLEARLY the better player and the metrics show a MASSIVE edge. In fact the Mavericks don't have the advantage at a single position H2H vs the Clippers. Their only edge may end up being depth and that's debatable.

you do realize dirk was hurt last year right and both dirk and griffin are going to give you 20ppg the only difference is blake plays with the best pg in the game if dirk played with cp3 he'd put up 25 ppg and dirk avg 21 last year im not sure how much of a decline he's on the only thing blake does better than dirk is rebound besides that they are both horrible defenders and that's why they are equal to me

Tyson broke his leg last year and we had the worst coach in the nba if dj was such a beast then why sign hawes lmao a healthy Tyson is better than dj but I said equal only bcuz his health is an issue

now your own crack if you would take Reddick over ellis did you see the number he put up in the playoffs against the champs come on bro you know your reaching

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 06:59 PM
I understand. But you are ignoring the fact that there are two other players in the starting five, and the Mavs have two very good defensive players in Tyson Chandler and Devin Harris and I think you are really undervaluating Parsons defense.

I have no horse in the race in regards to the Mavs man. Sure my team is in the west, so I don't want them winning the west. That being said I love Dirk and have always pulled for him/Mavs as a 2nd or 3rd team. I was rooting for them in that Dirk 2011 run harder than any team ever before (outside of the Clippers).

I'm just saying people are going overboard, not bashing them. The Mavs put together a nice squad that has a chance to be a darkhorse and maybe get to the 2nd round in the west (which in itself is a solid accomplishment). I'm just saying talk of being an ELITE team in the league or winning the west is very premature based on a bunch of role player additions. Not that role players aren't great, but they didn't add Lebron James or something.

Tyson Chandler is a good defender but as I said he's not much of an upgrade over Dalembert on D, at least according to numbers and his declining year. Forgive me for not automatically assuming a player will bounce back in his 14th season. I don't think last year was a fluke due to injury, I feel like it was the start of a decline for him.

Devin Harris is a solid defender, but he was there last year too. In other words the team LOST some defense in Marion and added none. So unless the younger pieces step up big on D, I don't see any change in the balance of that team. They are the epitome of a "glass cannon". Can crush anyone when they get going on offense, but won't be able to stop themselves from being crushed as well.

Mr.B
07-24-2014, 07:00 PM
Dirk/Ellis/Parsons= Elite offense, maybe worst trio in the league defensively.

Paul/Griffin/DJ= Elite offense, good defensive trio (CP3 and DJ on All NBA 1st defensive teams, Griffin solid this year on D)

Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka= Elite offense/good defensive trio. Ibaka a perennial DPOY candidate, Durant and Westbrook OKAY defenders.

Duncan/Leonard/Parker= Great offensive trio/Great defensive trio.

Curry/Iggy/Bogut= Good offensive trio/Elite defensive trio.

I noticed how you failed to factor in the bench. That would a HUGE edge to the Mavs. The Spurs are the only one of those teams that's deeper than Dallas. Another thing the Mavs/Spurs series should tell you (if it didn't I will) is that regular season matchups have nothing to do with a 7 game series. The Spurs dominated Dallas in the regular season yet the Mavs were one game away from sending them home in the 1st round. When a team has 7 games to game plan and study a team and prepare for them they can take away what the other team does best. It basically becomes a chess match between the coaches. I'll take Carlisle over Doc any day. Not say Doc is a bad coach I just think Carlisle is better. And besides this whole Donald Sterling thing isn't over yet so there isn't even any guarantee that Doc will even be coaching the Clipps this year.

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 07:00 PM
Jordan Farmar 2013-2014: 10 ppg, 5 apg, 3 rpg on 44 percent shooting from 3.

Darren Collison 2013-2014: 9 ppg, 3 apg, 3 rpg on 37 percent shooting from 3.

I'm trying to figure out where you got the math for "not half the player Collison is". Also did you forget about the guy named Spencer Hawes who fills a huge gap the Clippers have had the entire CP3 era? Which is a reliable back up big who could stretch the floor and rebound? Will his 14 ppg/8+ rpg and elite passing not help? Never mind that he just turned 26.

Blake doesn't suck on defense, he used to. Now he's a solid defender. Horrid defense at the rim but very solid PNR/ 1 on 1 defender.

wow bro your kidding me right don't tell your one of those guys who uses baseless numbers to back up your argument with out looking at the circumstances first off farmar played on one of the worst teams in the nba last year and he has inflated stats playing in dumbtoni's system 2nd dc filled in for cp3 when he got hurt and put up some amzing number 3rd farmar is half of the player dc is cuz he only plays 1 side of the game farmar is a horrible defender lmao

and blake sux at d bro stop being in denial can he improve yes but right now him and dirk are a wash imo stop sleeping on dirk another thing you are not factoring is dirk will pull blake out of the paint and force blake to play along the perimeter imo the mavs are just a horrible match up for the clips now

Mr.B
07-24-2014, 07:02 PM
have you ever seen ellis or parsons play bro be truthful bcuz I don't think so lmao parsons was the 2nd best defender on the rox behind d12 and ellis even tho he is undersized is also a really good defender lmao stop being a homer the clippers lost dc that's a huge blow farmar isn't even half of the player dc is and blake sux on d get real lmao

Blake's shooting is suspect too

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 07:03 PM
I noticed how you failed to factor in the bench. That would a HUGE edge to the Mavs. The Spurs are the only one of those teams that's deeper than Dallas. Another thing the Mavs/Spurs series should tell you (if it didn't I will) is that regular season matchups have nothing to do with a 7 game series. The Spurs dominated Dallas in the regular season yet the Mavs were one game away from sending them home in the 1st round. When a team has 7 games to game plan and study a team and prepare for them they can take away what the other team does best. It basically becomes a chess match between the coaches. I'll take Carlisle over Doc any day. Not say Doc is a bad coach I just think Carlisle is better. And besides this whole Donald Sterling thing isn't over yet so there isn't even any guarantee that Doc will even be coaching the Clipps this year.

exactly why did the spurs beat the heat bcuz of depth:clap:

Mr.B
07-24-2014, 07:04 PM
Jordan Farmar 2013-2014: 10 ppg, 5 apg, 3 rpg on 44 percent shooting from 3.

Darren Collison 2013-2014: 9 ppg, 3 apg, 3 rpg on 37 percent shooting from 3.

I'm trying to figure out where you got the math for "not half the player Collison is". Also did you forget about the guy named Spencer Hawes who fills a huge gap the Clippers have had the entire CP3 era? Which is a reliable back up big who could stretch the floor and rebound? Will his 14 ppg/8+ rpg and elite passing not help? Never mind that he just turned 26.

Blake doesn't suck on defense, he used to. Now he's a solid defender. Horrid defense at the rim but very solid PNR/ 1 on 1 defender.

So Blake is the only one in the entire NBA that can ever improve in defense?

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 07:06 PM
you do realize dirk was hurt last year right and both dirk and griffin are going to give you 20ppg the only difference is blake plays with the best pg in the game if dirk played with cp3 he'd put up 25 ppg and dirk avg 21 last year im not sure how much of a decline he's on the only thing blake does better than dirk is rebound besides that they are both horrible defenders and that's why they are equal to me

Tyson broke his leg last year and we had the worst coach in the nba if dj was such a beast then why sign hawes lmao a healthy Tyson is better than dj but I said equal only bcuz his health is an issue

now your own crack if you would take Reddick over ellis did you see the number he put up in the playoffs against the champs come on bro you know your reaching

Explain how Griffin averaged 27/9/5 without CP3 just about when CP3 is the one spoonfeeding him and padding his numbers? When Paul was injured Griffin had the most dominant stretch of his career and carried the Clippers. In fact, he had a stretch statistically that hasn't been done since 05 Cleveland Lebron James. The difference between Blake and Dirk is 3 points per game, 3 rebounds per game, 1 assist per game and better defense. A huge gap in any comparison.

You going to disregard that Chandler is going into his 14th season and has been injury prone. He was better than DJ a couple years ago but I'm not 100 percent sure he will return to that level. Even if he does his edge is small at best and that's assuming DJ doesn't take another leap in his game. People seem to think that uniting with Dirk guarantees a huge bounceback year, even 3 seasons later!

You realize there is more to the game than scoring right? Redick>Ellis last year and the numbers back it. He has a much higher ALL AROUND impact on the game.

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 07:08 PM
Blake's shooting is suspect too

I guess a nearly 60% TS with 53 percent from the field, 71.5 from the stripe and a rapidly improving 40+ percent from midrange (very solid) is suspect for a still developing big who just turned 25 LOL.

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 07:09 PM
So Blake is the only one in the entire NBA that can ever improve in defense?

How did you take that from my post? Many players can improve. Blake though from day one has taken leaps in two different seasons on D. I've seen nothing from guys like Ellis/Parsons etc to suggest they are going to take a defensive leap or will improve on D. If they prove me wrong, so be it. Not what we are arguing here though. Bottom line is the Mavs were a bad defensive team last year and didn't address that whatsoever this offseason.

Mr.B
07-24-2014, 07:12 PM
I guess a nearly 60% TS with 53 percent from the field, 71.5 from the stripe and a rapidly improving 40+ percent from midrange (very solid) is suspect for a still developing big who just turned 25 LOL.

I understand why you're using numbers to back up your point however his % is high because of all the dunks he gets. I said his SHOOTING is suspect. Take away the dunks (which a superior coach will do in a 7 game series) and his shooting percentage drops dramatically. That's a fact.

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 07:12 PM
I noticed how you failed to factor in the bench. That would a HUGE edge to the Mavs. The Spurs are the only one of those teams that's deeper than Dallas. Another thing the Mavs/Spurs series should tell you (if it didn't I will) is that regular season matchups have nothing to do with a 7 game series. The Spurs dominated Dallas in the regular season yet the Mavs were one game away from sending them home in the 1st round. When a team has 7 games to game plan and study a team and prepare for them they can take away what the other team does best. It basically becomes a chess match between the coaches. I'll take Carlisle over Doc any day. Not say Doc is a bad coach I just think Carlisle is better. And besides this whole Donald Sterling thing isn't over yet so there isn't even any guarantee that Doc will even be coaching the Clipps this year.

Do you forget that the Clippers bench was the best in the league two years ago? Or that last year Crawford won 6th man? Or that you guys lost your elite 6th man in Vince Carter? Which bench looks better to you?

Hawes
Farmar
Barnes
Crawford
Bullock
Baby Davis

Harris
Felton
Crowder
Wright
Aminu
Ledo
Jefferson

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 07:15 PM
I understand why you're using numbers to back up your point however his % is high because of all the dunks he gets. I said his SHOOTING is suspect. Take away the dunks (which a superior coach will do in a 7 game series) and his shooting percentage drops dramatically. That's a fact.

So we are going to use the Shaq argument here? The whole dunks vs jumpers thing? The bottom line is the dunk is the most efficient shot in basketball, so no sh** if you reduce dunks he won't be as productive. The thing is.. if you can't stop his dunks (which most teams can't) it doesn't help any. Even if you do he's now a 40+ shooter from midrange which means he can still get his 25+ points no problem and hurt teams.

His shooting can no longer be called "suspect". It's gone up more into "respectable" or "solid". Not elite of course, but good enough to get the job done and likely to still improve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYg2Y95y_NU

Count the dunks in this video. I'll give you a clue.. he hit 8 long 2's this game.

Mr.B
07-24-2014, 07:16 PM
How did you take that from my post? Many players can improve. Blake though from day one has taken leaps in two different seasons on D. I've seen nothing from guys like Ellis/Parsons etc to suggest they are going to take a defensive leap or will improve on D. If they prove me wrong, so be it. Not what we are arguing here though. Bottom line is the Mavs were a bad defensive team last year and didn't address that whatsoever this offseason.

I have no doubt you didn't see Ellis improve because it's clear you didn't watch any Mavs games last year. Parsons is also only 25 and will now be playing for a coach that will actually help him improve his game (not to mention Ellis will also be under his second year with Carlisle). So it's very likely that both will improve on defense.

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 07:20 PM
I have no doubt you didn't see Ellis improve because it's clear you didn't watch any Mavs games last year. Parsons is also only 25 and will now be playing for a coach that will actually help him improve his game (not to mention Ellis will also be under his second year with Carlisle). So it's very likely that both will improve on defense.

I did see a jump in effort from Ellis on D last season but that doesn't mean the defensive game itself made substantial progress. He's no longer a complete matador on D like on the Warriors/Bucks but he's still a below average defender. Parsons may improve on D, I never said it wasn't possible. I'm just saying I have no reason to automatically give him the benefit of the doubt based on his 3 prior seasons of no D. In fact.. statistics say his D is declining every year so far, although that may be due to his bigger offensive load and minutes, who knows.

Mr.B
07-24-2014, 07:23 PM
So we are going to use the Shaq argument here? The whole dunks vs jumpers thing? The bottom line is the dunk is the most efficient shot in basketball, so no sh** if you reduce dunks he won't be as productive. The thing is.. if you can't stop his dunks (which most teams can't) it doesn't help any. Even if you do he's now a 40+ shooter from midrange which means he can still get his 25+ points no problem and hurt teams.

His shooting can no longer be called "suspect". It's gone up more into "respectable" or "solid". Not elite of course, but good enough to get the job done and likely to still improve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYg2Y95y_NU

Count the dunks in this video. I'll give you a clue.. he hit 8 long 2's this game.

Again you're referring to the regular season. I'm talking playoffs when an elite coaching staff will game plan to take those dunks away.

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 07:24 PM
Explain how Griffin averaged 27/9/5 without CP3 just about when CP3 is the one spoonfeeding him and padding his numbers? When Paul was injured Griffin had the most dominant stretch of his career and carried the Clippers. In fact, he had a stretch statistically that hasn't been done since 05 Cleveland Lebron James. The difference between Blake and Dirk is 3 points per game, 3 rebounds per game, 1 assist per game and better defense. A huge gap in any comparison.

You going to disregard that Chandler is going into his 14th season and has been injury prone. He was better than DJ a couple years ago but I'm not 100 percent sure he will return to that level. Even if he does his edge is small at best and that's assuming DJ doesn't take another leap in his game. People seem to think that uniting with Dirk guarantees a huge bounceback year, even 3 seasons later!

You realize there is more to the game than scoring right? Redick>Ellis last year and the numbers back it. He has a much higher ALL AROUND impact on the game.

ummmm didn't I explain dc stepped in for cp3 and put up amazing numbers lmao lets see griffin put up those numbers if cp3 goes down again look im not saying blake is a scrub im just saying dirk isn't one either dirk can get 30 points easier then blake he just doesn't need to they play in two different systems

now lmao bro you can't tell me anything about my knicks bro it would just be a waste of time first off Tyson broke his leg early in the season and it took him some time to get back in shape but that wasn't even the problem our perimeter d last year was a joke feltdown was the worst starting pg in the entire nba and prigs was horrible on d too now on top of that our dum shyt ex coach played this stupid switching d which would leave Tyson guarding opposing pg's and have feltdown guarding the centers Tyson still has a lot bro and he still put up 8 ppg and almost 10rpg with 1.1bpg those are bout his career avgs

what you don't get is sometimes it doesn't matter about the talent im not sure how parsons is going to play but Tyson is the perfect fit for the mavs and his d will be fine as long as you surround him with capable defenders im not sure if you watched when the mavs won but marion was probably the best defender for them Tyson isn't a great defender all by him self shyt no center is but if you surround him with good defenders like parsons ellis harris he can still make your defense elite

ThuglifeJ
07-24-2014, 07:24 PM
I don't want to talk about the Clippers though, I do that enough. The point is... the Mavericks bandwagon is getting heavy for no good reason. Playoff team sure. Possible threat for the 4-5 seed along with GS/Hou/Portland yes. Top 3 seed or win the west? No. The Mavs will be on the tier 2 or 3 of the west competing for a 4-7 seed.

That's because

1. They are a likeable team/franchise - easy to root for
2. They made the most offseason moves. Everyone is bored NBA wise in the summer and likes to mentally think up the idea of new rosters. Every fan does, I do, you do, it's exciting.


It's just exciting to see moves actually happen as that's all we get in the offseason. While teams who choose continuity and only subtle moves actually end up panning out better.

I actually don't know of a single team who won a championship first year after big roster changes. Usually takes a year.

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 07:28 PM
Again you're referring to the regular season. I'm talking playoffs when an elite coaching staff will game plan to take those dunks away.

That goes for almost every player though. Very few players, especially young ones play BETTER in the playoffs than the regular season. Things get more physical, slower and strategic. Nonetheless Blake had a pretty good playoff run and scored only slightly less than in the regular season. In large part BECAUSE his shot is no longer "suspect".

In the entire playoffs Blake only had 4 sub standard games. Although considering he was being guarded by Draymond Green and Serge Ibaka in those games, it's really nothing to be embarrassed about. He averaged 23.5 ppg in the playoffs compared to 24 ppg in the regular season.

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 07:29 PM
Do you forget that the Clippers bench was the best in the league two years ago? Or that last year Crawford won 6th man? Or that you guys lost your elite 6th man in Vince Carter? Which bench looks better to you?

Hawes
Farmar
Barnes
Crawford
Bullock
Baby Davis

Harris
Felton
Crowder
Wright
Aminu
Ledo
Jefferson

lmao your bench sux bro outside of Crawford and jameer wil be the back up not harris but you bench sux cuz nobody on your entire bench plays d while the mavs have at least 3 players who play d ntm they could start aminu and have parsons come off the bench for fire power if they need it

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 07:31 PM
ummmm didn't I explain dc stepped in for cp3 and put up amazing numbers lmao lets see griffin put up those numbers if cp3 goes down again look im not saying blake is a scrub im just saying dirk isn't one either dirk can get 30 points easier then blake he just doesn't need to they play in two different systems

now lmao bro you can't tell me anything about my knicks bro it would just be a waste of time first off Tyson broke his leg early in the season and it took him some time to get back in shape but that wasn't even the problem our perimeter d last year was a joke feltdown was the worst starting pg in the entire nba and prigs was horrible on d too now on top of that our dum shyt ex coach played this stupid switching d which would leave Tyson guarding opposing pg's and have feltdown guarding the centers Tyson still has a lot bro and he still put up 8 ppg and almost 10rpg with 1.1bpg those are bout his career avgs

what you don't get is sometimes it doesn't matter about the talent im not sure how parsons is going to play but Tyson is the perfect fit for the mavs and his d will be fine as long as you surround him with capable defenders im not sure if you watched when the mavs won but marion was probably the best defender for them Tyson isn't a great defender all by him self shyt no center is but if you surround him with good defenders like parsons ellis harris he can still make your defense elite


Anyone who watched the Clippers when CP3 went down will back me up. Griffin's dominance had NOTHING to do with Collison who was inept at even simple post feeds most of the time. Griffin was actually playing point guard a lot and bringing the ball up and running the offense from the top of the key. Collison played off the ball a bunch and although he stepped up, he wasn't some monster or something.

Collison was actually a horrible compliment to Griffin because of his mediocre passing and sometimes he tried to do too much on offense, often missing easy passes to Blake on cuts/lobs. The best thing Collison did was get the ball to Blake and get the fu** out of the way last year.

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 07:33 PM
That's because

1. They are a likeable team/franchise - easy to root for
2. They made the most offseason moves. Everyone is bored NBA wise in the summer and likes to mentally think up the idea of new rosters. Every fan does, I do, you do, it's exciting.


It's just exciting to see moves actually happen as that's all we get in the offseason. While teams who choose continuity and only subtle moves actually end up panning out better.

I actually don't know of a single team who won a championship first year after big roster changes. Usually takes a year.

but that's the point they didn't make new roster moves I mean parsons jameer yes but Tyson will be the reason they make some noise he should have never left dallas in the first place and it's easy to forget he's only 3 years removed from winning the title with almost the same exact team shyt I wouldn't be surprised if they get terry back some time this year also

Htownballa1622
07-24-2014, 07:34 PM
I guess people don't think defense is important to win titles anymore with all the Dallas hype. They are a playoff team for sure but all of this talk about being an elite contender in the west or even a HCA team is laughable at best. They have great depth and firepower but lack the star power or defense to contend with the likes of SAS/LAC/OKC or even GS/Hou in a 7 game series. All they did essentially was move into the 2nd or 3rd tier in the west of mid playoff seeding.

They will continue to have an ATROCIOUS defense that's easily exposed, far more so with the loss of Marion for Parsons.


As a Clippers fan I can speak first hand to your teams atrocious D considering you allowed the Clippers not just one but TWO 20+ point comebacks last year in the 4th quarter of games. Now you subtract Marion who was your best defender and add the likes of Parsons/Nelson who are horrid defenders. Not to mention Dirk will be yet another year older and while still a great player, is a step down from being a superstar now.

Just because the Mavs matched up well with one team, doesn't mean they are an elite team in the conference. Remember when a couple years back the Knicks swept Miami by like 20 ppg on average? How did that turn out for them? The west is a blood bath. The top 3 teams in the west OKC/SAS/LAC are top 10 in offense AND defense. I just don't see the Mavs being in this discussion, or anywhere close.

If you want to call them a darkhorse playoff team, I have no issue with it. To call them a title contender or an elite team out west though is an insult and shortsighted. BTW your ignorant comment about the Warriors/Rockets defense is exposed easily. You realize the Warriors had the 3rd best defense in the league last year right? The Rockets were 11th or 12th. What were the Mavs? 22nd ranked defense. Who did they add on the defensive end to improve that significantly?

Tyson Chandler is an upgrade over Dalembert, but had a clear decline last year and given his age/injury history, I expect it to continue until proven otherwise. That being said, you may find it interesting that Dalembert had similar defensive impact last year to Chandler, so if you're expecting a huge jump you will be disappointed. Sounds like Mavs fans are getting a little delusional now.

PS.... have you not been following sports very long? Just because you don't add a bunch of players... it doesn't mean you haven't improved.

The Clippers and Spurs both added nice pieces this summer and got better on paper. Clippers will also take a leap just based on the fact that Blake and DJ still have a lot of upside and another year under a good coach in that system will give a boost. Unlike Dirk, Griffin isn't on the decline.

The Warriors will be a lot better simply from having Bogut back (hopefully in the playoffs this time). OKC didn't add much... but when you have two legit superstars and a great 3rd player there isn't a hell of a lot to do. They are going the Spurs route of developing what they have. Which often times is the best answer. Teams that are already contenders (unlike Dallas) merely tweak usually, rather than swing for the fences with trades/signings.

Finally. Glad somebody called out all the bull. If this were coming from me, i'd be "hating/mad."

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 07:37 PM
Anyone who watched the Clippers when CP3 went down will back me up. Griffin's dominance had NOTHING to do with Collison who was inept at even simple post feeds most of the time. Griffin was actually playing point guard a lot and bringing the ball up and running the offense from the top of the key. Collison played off the ball a bunch and although he stepped up, he wasn't some monster or something.

Collison was actually a horrible compliment to Griffin because of his mediocre passing and sometimes he tried to do too much on offense, often missing easy passes to Blake on cuts/lobs. The best thing Collison did was get the ball to Blake and get the fu** out of the way last year.

lmao your a joke now your going to down play what dc did for you guys gtfoh dc also showed up big in the playoffs too and when did this become a blake vs dirk thread ok even if I say blake is better they are still 5 other positions on the court and besides cp3 I feel the mavs have the advantage in all 3 including the bench

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 07:40 PM
Finally. Glad somebody called out all the bull. If this were coming from me, i'd be "hating/mad."

don't get to happy bro he's only saying that stuff cuz I said the mavs are going to be better than the clips next year normal fans still feel the same way:cool:

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 07:43 PM
lmao your a joke now your going to down play what dc did for you guys gtfoh dc also showed up big in the playoffs too and when did this become a blake vs dirk thread ok even if I say blake is better they are still 5 other positions on the court and besides cp3 I feel the mavs have the advantage in all 3 including the bench

I made a mistake earlier on a post (when I said Mavs aren't better at any positions). The Mavs are MUCH better at SF than the Clippers. What other position do they have the edge though based on what we saw last year? Just to show you... look at Redick vs Ellis.


Redick: 15 ppg, 2 rpg, 2 apg. 60% TS, PER of 16.6, WS/48 of .147. Ortg of 117, Drtg of 109. He only took 11 shots per game.

Ellis: 19 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 5.7 apg. 53% TS, PER of 16.8, WS/48 of .78, Ortg of 104, Drtg of 109. He took 15.6 shots per game.


So you see. Ellis looks better on paper due to WAY more shots, way more usage... but he was horribly inefficient compared to Redick.

Htownballa1622
07-24-2014, 07:45 PM
don't get to happy bro he's only saying that stuff cuz I said the mavs are going to be better than the clips next year normal fans still feel the same way:cool:

lol. Normal fans? I've seen what i've had to see. Dallas fans, laker fans, and then some other fans have said the mavs are contenders now.

Mavs look nice but for every plus, people keep sweeping under the rug the negatives.

Also, Clips are going to be a top 3 team imo. Any of those 3 teams (SAS, LAC, OKC) can finish 1,2,3.

Dallas is good but they're still in the mix with Houston, GSW, Memphis, Portland. Adding parsons/Tyson along with names on paper as backups doesn't make you an instant contender ESPECIALLY out west.

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 07:45 PM
That's because

1. They are a likeable team/franchise - easy to root for
2. They made the most offseason moves. Everyone is bored NBA wise in the summer and likes to mentally think up the idea of new rosters. Every fan does, I do, you do, it's exciting.


It's just exciting to see moves actually happen as that's all we get in the offseason. While teams who choose continuity and only subtle moves actually end up panning out better.

I actually don't know of a single team who won a championship first year after big roster changes. Usually takes a year.

For the first time in a while, we agree. I have no issue with people being pumped/rooting for them. Just don't tell me they will win the west or be the 2 seed in the west already. It remains to be seen how everything meshes.

Crackadalic
07-24-2014, 07:46 PM
I think they downgraded from there role players but gain two much better starters

Just have to have Tyson be healthy for more then 55 games which hasn't happen for years

I don't like the point guard rotation at all tbh

Right now they are a 4-5 seed which is an improvement from last year but I just don't see them contending

DoMeFavors
07-24-2014, 07:47 PM
dirk is quite good and his numbers show it. He was in his prime from 2004 through 2008 and guess what he won his only championship in 2011 when he had a 23.4 per, this last season his per was 23.6 so he's bassically the same dirk who won the mavericks a champion in 2011. And who said you need to have a stud in his prime to win a championship? Didn't you watch how the spurs dominated the finals this past season? Can you tell me which one of their stars is in his prime?

Parsons is young an entering his prime and ellis is a good player and still in his prime, that last question you ask just show you how good this team is, when you have two other players who are very good that you don't know which one is better it tells you great things about the depth of that certain team.

We all know Dirk was a different player the 2011 post season that might be one of the best post seasons of all time. He was hitting clutch shots all playoffs. Going to be hard to replicate that. Also spurs are a different team because they have Tony Parker and Tim Duncan aswell as Leonard. Mavericks dont have a 3 like that. Ellis,Dirk,Parons is not close to that.

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 07:48 PM
lol. Normal fans? I've seen what i've had to see. Dallas fans, laker fans, and then some other fans have said the mavs are contenders now.

Mavs look nice but for every plus, people keep seeping under the rug the negatives.

Also, Clips are going to be a top 3 team imo. Any of those 3 teams (SAS, LAC, OKC) can finish 1,2,3.

Dallas is good but they're still in the mix with Houston, GSW, Memphis, Portland. Adding parsons/Tyson along with names on paper as backups doesn't make you an instant contender ESPECIALLY out west.

I think fans are forgetting just how brutal the west was last year. The 8/9 seeds had like 49 wins. It takes a hell of a lot more than many think to contend. Which is why I laugh when people tell me "Well the Clippers never get out of the second round". Well in the west... it's not EASY to get out of the 2nd round (which means to the WCF). There are literally 6+ teams that can upset each other. Nothing is guaranteed. Everything has to be earned. Even a 5-6 seed in the west would contend for the title in the east. Which means... there is NOTHING to be ashamed of to be in the tier of Houston/Portland/GS/Memphis etc and being just below the top 3.

As mentioned before GS almost upset the Clippers last year, Dallas almost upset SA.... in the west you can't predict much of anything. Besides maybe that San Antonio sold their soul to the devil and will never die or go away :mad:.

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 07:51 PM
I made a mistake earlier on a post (when I said Mavs aren't better at any positions). The Mavs are MUCH better at SF than the Clippers. What other position do they have the edge though based on what we saw last year? Just to show you... look at Redick vs Ellis.


Redick: 15 ppg, 2 rpg, 2 apg. 60% TS, PER of 16.6, WS/48 of .147. Ortg of 117, Drtg of 109. He only took 11 shots per game.

Ellis: 19 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 5.7 apg. 53% TS, PER of 16.8, WS/48 of .78, Ortg of 104, Drtg of 109. He took 15.6 shots per game.


So you see. Ellis looks better on paper due to WAY more shots, way more usage... but he was horribly inefficient compared to Redick.

lmao im not just an avg nba fan I know the game bro do you

first off Reddick is a spot up shooter who plays with the best pg in the game

now ellis is a volume scorer who is the primary ball handler most of the time

of course if you look at the numbers they favor jj numbers lie bro you should watch the games the fact is monta was great in the playoffs plz tell you think jj could have done half of what monta did to the spurs

Htownballa1622
07-24-2014, 07:54 PM
I think fans are forgetting just how brutal the west was last year. The 8/9 seeds had like 49 wins. It takes a hell of a lot more than many think to contend. Which is why I laugh when people tell me "Well the Clippers never get out of the second round". Well in the west... it's not EASY to get out of the 2nd round (which means to the WCF). There are literally 6+ teams that can upset each other. Nothing is guaranteed. Everything has to be earned. Even a 5-6 seed in the west would contend for the title in the east. Which means... there is NOTHING to be ashamed of to be in the tier of Houston/Portland/GS/Memphis etc and being just below the top 3.

As mentioned before GS almost upset the Clippers last year, Dallas almost upset SA.... in the west you can't predict much of anything. Besides maybe that San Antonio sold their soul to the devil and will never die or go away :mad:.

Exactly. People forget that the Rox were 1 second away from a game 7 AT HOME.

The Mavs needed a buzzer beater by Vince to even take one of those games(credit the mavs for winning but come on).

Matchups are everything and in the WEST 1-8 is a battle.

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 07:54 PM
For the first time in a while, we agree. I have no issue with people being pumped/rooting for them. Just don't tell me they will win the west or be the 2 seed in the west already. It remains to be seen how everything meshes.

I said the mavs will be the 3 seed but your even more delusional if you think the clips minus dc can beat the spurs or thunder

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 07:57 PM
I said the mavs will be the 3 seed but your even more delusional if you think the clips minus dc can beat the spurs or thunder

I think the Clips minus DC and adding Hawes+Farmar can beat anyone if Blake/DJ keep improving and they can get more production out of the SF's. If you're saying the Mavs will be 3.. you're saying they will be better than every team in the west besides the Spurs/Thunder, which is what I'm calling you out for.

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 08:00 PM
here is my main point the mavs took the champs to 7 games nobody else in the playoffs took them that far now the mavs have upgraded their center and sf position significantly how can you not see them being top 3 idk

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 08:02 PM
here is my main point the mavs took the champs to 7 games nobody else in the playoffs took them that far now the mavs have upgraded their center and sf position significantly how can you not see them being top 3 idk

He's my point. H2H means very little in the grand scheme of things come playoff time. Your very own Knicks beat Miami by 20 ppg and swept them a couple years ago, only to be slaughtered come playoff time. Do you want to talk about that example?

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 08:03 PM
I think the Clips minus DC and adding Hawes+Farmar can beat anyone if Blake/DJ keep improving and they can get more production out of the SF's. If you're saying the Mavs will be 3.. you're saying they will be better than every team in the west besides the Spurs/Thunder, which is what I'm calling you out for.

bro farmar is garbage and hawes is a plus but he's soft on d im also saying the mavs have a better coach and bench

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 08:06 PM
He's my point. H2H means very little in the grand scheme of things come playoff time. Your very own Knicks beat Miami by 20 ppg and swept them a couple years ago, only to be slaughtered come playoff time. Do you want to talk about that example?

ummmmmmm my knicks never took mia to 7 games in the playoffs and yes h2h means nothing in the reg season but it's pretty significant in the playoffs

Thumper 88
07-24-2014, 08:39 PM
Exactly. People forget that the Rox were 1 second away from a game 7 AT HOME.

The Mavs needed a buzzer beater by Vince to even take one of those games(credit the mavs for winning but come on).

Matchups are everything and in the WEST 1-8 is a battle.

It's goes both ways. The spurs needed a last minute come back in game 1

Htownballa1622
07-24-2014, 08:41 PM
It's goes both ways. The spurs needed a last minute come back in game 1

I agree it goes both ways. I was bringing up examples to the whole we took them to 7 vs we lost in "x" amount.

Match ups are important.

ThuglifeJ
07-24-2014, 08:59 PM
For the first time in a while, we agree. I have no issue with people being pumped/rooting for them. Just don't tell me they will win the west or be the 2 seed in the west already. It remains to be seen how everything meshes.

Hey man don't stress about it. They will get the attention in the offseason and they deserve it by making all the big moves... just be patient or ignore it if it bothers you because you are dealing with a team that is going of continuity/subtle changes.

You will get the attention in the postseason.

Mr.B
07-24-2014, 09:26 PM
That goes for almost every player though. Very few players, especially young ones play BETTER in the playoffs than the regular season. Things get more physical, slower and strategic. Nonetheless Blake had a pretty good playoff run and scored only slightly less than in the regular season. In large part BECAUSE his shot is no longer "suspect".

In the entire playoffs Blake only had 4 sub standard games. Although considering he was being guarded by Draymond Green and Serge Ibaka in those games, it's really nothing to be embarrassed about. He averaged 23.5 ppg in the playoffs compared to 24 ppg in the regular season.
Dirk almost always plays better in the playoffs than he does during the regular season. This past season's playoffs and the series against Golden State in '07 were the exceptions. Early in his career when teams started taking away his jump shot he learned how to drive to the bucket. Then when teams took that away he developed a low post game. Then when they took that away he developed that one legged fade away. He was always adding to his game. Age has taken away his ability to consistently drive to the basket but he still has a very good low post game, his jump shot is still money and that one legged fade away is damn near unstoppable.

My point is that Griffin needs to develop his game. His jump shot has gotten better but its not there yet. It is still suspect. Eventually age will take his "above the rim" game away. If he doesn't perfect that jump shot he'll be out of the league once he's not able to consistently get above the rim and dunk on people. With his jump shot not quite being where it needs to be yet he's going to be at a disadvantage in the playoffs.

Mr.B
07-24-2014, 09:35 PM
He's my point. H2H means very little in the grand scheme of things come playoff time. Your very own Knicks beat Miami by 20 ppg and swept them a couple years ago, only to be slaughtered come playoff time. Do you want to talk about that example?

Here you say H2H means little however you kept bringing up how the Clipps beat the Mavs twice this year.

kdspurman
07-24-2014, 09:49 PM
here is my main point the mavs took the champs to 7 games nobody else in the playoffs took them that far now the mavs have upgraded their center and sf position significantly how can you not see them being top 3 idk

The thing about it, is what happens in a previous playoff does not roll over to the next season. Gotta do it all over again. Like Indy took Miami to game 7 last year, improved their team over the summer, and seemingly did worse this year. There are no guarantees in this league, and previous success does not guarantee future success. Especially for a team adding so many different pieces.

I'll be shocked if SA/OKC/LAC aren't 3rd simply because of the chemistry and familiarity they have.

Clippersfan86
07-24-2014, 09:53 PM
You missed the context. H2H isn't entirely irrelevant. To say that because one team matches up with the champion well, means they will run through the west... Is abusing H2H value.

Also Dirk wasn't injured in 2 of his first 3 playoff runs. Nor was he dominating in the playoffs his first couple runs to the same degree. The idea that dominant bigs need to have a great jumper by 25 years old is incredibly idiotic. Griffin does plenty of things Dirk can't do as well and they are no less valuable. If you expect a 25 year old big to be a complete player already, I gave your knowledge more credit than it deserves.

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 11:00 PM
The thing about it, is what happens in a previous playoff does not roll over to the next season. Gotta do it all over again. Like Indy took Miami to game 7 last year, improved their team over the summer, and seemingly did worse this year. There are no guarantees in this league, and previous success does not guarantee future success. Especially for a team adding so many different pieces.

I'll be shocked if SA/OKC/LAC aren't 3rd simply because of the chemistry and familiarity they have.

I understand you bro but indy was a bad example if hibbert didn't fall off a cliff they could have won that series I just feel like the mavs match up great against any team in the west but the spurs have pop and okc has kd

Mr.B
07-24-2014, 11:05 PM
You missed the context. H2H isn't entirely irrelevant. To say that because one team matches up with the champion well, means they will run through the west... Is abusing H2H value.

Also Dirk wasn't injured in 2 of his first 3 playoff runs. Nor was he dominating in the playoffs his first couple runs to the same degree. The idea that dominant bigs need to have a great jumper by 25 years old is incredibly idiotic. Griffin does plenty of things Dirk can't do as well and they are no less valuable. If you expect a 25 year old big to be a complete player already, I gave your knowledge more credit than it deserves.
You may have misunderstood what I meant about Blake and having a jump shot. What I meant was that he's still a developing player. He's not a finished product. His jump shot has improved slightly but I think in order for him and the Clippers to reach the ultimate level and win a title he needs to continue to improve that part of his game. That way when teams take away his ability to attack the rim he can attack them with something else like a mid range game. He's still young so of course he can still improve. Hell Dirk was adding to his game well into his 30's. Dirk didn't perfect that one legged shot until he was about 30 years old. Just like Blake though Parsons is still young and will have an opportunity now to learn from Dirk and Carlisle.

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 11:06 PM
You missed the context. H2H isn't entirely irrelevant. To say that because one team matches up with the champion well, means they will run through the west... Is abusing H2H value.

Also Dirk wasn't injured in 2 of his first 3 playoff runs. Nor was he dominating in the playoffs his first couple runs to the same degree. The idea that dominant bigs need to have a great jumper by 25 years old is incredibly idiotic. Griffin does plenty of things Dirk can't do as well and they are no less valuable. If you expect a 25 year old big to be a complete player already, I gave your knowledge more credit than it deserves.

and you don't get it if the clippers play the mavs in the playoffs it's not going to come down to blake vs dirk lmao

both teams are good but it's going to come down to coaching match ups and depth and in that the case I give the edge to the mavs

kdspurman
07-24-2014, 11:06 PM
I understand you bro but indy was a bad example if hibbert didn't fall off a cliff they could have won that series I just feel like the mavs match up great against any team in the west but the spurs have pop and okc has kd

the Mavs will be a tough out for anyone for sure. I just don't think they made the leap to elite level just yet. Gotta give it at least till mid-season to see how they're playing as a unit. never know what can happen. like Hibbert fell off a cliff, crazy things happen during the season

east fb knicks
07-24-2014, 11:27 PM
the Mavs will be a tough out for anyone for sure. I just don't think they made the leap to elite level just yet. Gotta give it at least till mid-season to see how they're playing as a unit. never know what can happen. like Hibbert fell off a cliff, crazy things happen during the season

I understand and by the deadline who knows a surprise team could be number 1 in the west im just going by teams on paper and on paper the mavs are better than lac hou gsw etc

Clippersfan86
07-25-2014, 12:09 AM
Mr.B of course Griffin has to keep improving. He wasn't what held the team back last year though. The Clippers should of been in the WCF. They outplayed OKC most of that series. It takes time to build chemistry and develop. Clippers were the 2nd best team in the NBA last year statistically so just don't act like they are far from being there or like the Mavs are in that discussion right now.

Mr.B
07-25-2014, 12:20 AM
the Mavs will be a tough out for anyone for sure. I just don't think they made the leap to elite level just yet. Gotta give it at least till mid-season to see how they're playing as a unit. never know what can happen. like Hibbert fell off a cliff, crazy things happen during the season
I agree with that. They did lose Marion and Carter who were very important guys in their locker room. Until they actually get on the court and go on road games together no one is going to know how the team will gel. They obviously have some very solid and positive locker room influences in Dirk, Tyson, and Monte but no one knows until they actually play together. The team didn't gel very well when they had OJ Mayo and Darren Collison but last year was the complete opposite. I was skeptical about Monte joining the team last year because everything I heard about him but he was great and was a prime example of an unselfish team player. Parsons should fit in considering his relationship with Dirk. The other guys we will just have to wait and see.

VladTheImpaler
07-25-2014, 12:53 AM
Good move, solid depth signings but why are so many of you thinking this moves the needle that much. Mavs prolly wont contend IMO

I don't think it's this move so much, but the offseason as a whole. Adding Chandler and Parsons(lol) were huge moves for the team moving forward, but it was done largely at the expense of their depth, and losing guys like Calderon, Marion and Carter hurt quite a bit. Now that they've brought in Jefferson, Smith, Aminu and Nelson, it takes the bite out of that quite a bit, and now you have a team that's definitely gotten better as far as starters go, and still has a pretty solid bench.

Will they contend? I think so, in the sense that they'll be a good team in a ridiculous conference, and have a shot. I don't think we'll be seeing a first place finish or anything, or they should be favored to win anything, but all of a sudden this could be a very solid team.

Clippersfan86
07-25-2014, 02:53 AM
I don't think it's this move so much, but the offseason as a whole. Adding Chandler and Parsons(lol) were huge moves for the team moving forward, but it was done largely at the expense of their depth, and losing guys like Calderon, Marion and Carter hurt quite a bit. Now that they've brought in Jefferson, Smith, Aminu and Nelson, it takes the bite out of that quite a bit, and now you have a team that's definitely gotten better as far as starters go, and still has a pretty solid bench.

Will they contend? I think so, in the sense that they'll be a good team in a ridiculous conference, and have a shot. I don't think we'll be seeing a first place finish or anything, or they should be favored to win anything, but all of a sudden this could be a very solid team.

You may be surprised to find out how little Chandler and Dalembert differed last year. Also as you said.. sure the team brought in a lot.. but lost some key guys, to where in the end making a huge leap from 8 seed to top 3 seed or winning the west seems incredibly farfetched.

east fb knicks
07-25-2014, 03:23 AM
You may be surprised to find out how little Chandler and Dalembert differed last year. Also as you said.. sure the team brought in a lot.. but lost some key guys, to where in the end making a huge leap from 8 seed to top 3 seed or winning the west seems incredibly farfetched.

so now your trying to say Tyson and dalembert are the same caliber player:facepalm:

lmao they may have similar numbers but Tyson impacts the game a lot more then dalembert

Clippersfan86
07-25-2014, 03:27 AM
so now your trying to say Tyson and dalembert are the same caliber player:facepalm:

lmao they may have similar numbers but Tyson impacts the game a lot more then dalembert

Last year yes. Chandler is injury prone and going into his 14th year. What makes you so sure he will bounce back to the level of 2 or 3 years ago?

jason6692
07-25-2014, 04:11 AM
Sorry fellow western fans but we're just better than most of you know yeah well miss Carter but look at his efficiency compared to R Jefferson there was turmoil in. NY Chandler and felton will be better Rick carsisle is top3 coach I'm a imagine what he van do with this tram he's use to bringing in players and getting a lot out of them. Parsons will just get better as well

jason6692
07-25-2014, 04:12 AM
I'm smacked so I will not spell check

east fb knicks
07-25-2014, 04:17 AM
Last year yes. Chandler is injury prone and going into his 14th year. What makes you so sure he will bounce back to the level of 2 or 3 years ago?

lmao he was actually good last year our team just sucked bcuz of our perimeter d and coaching he also was a bad fit on our team bcuz we needed more scoring and his offensive game is horrible but all he needs to do in dallas is rebound and play d he doesn't need to produce on offense it's just a system fit the knicks could have had dj last year and it wouldn't have made a difference his game just meshes better with dallas ntm carlisle is one of the best coaches in the nba and he knows how to utilize Tyson a lot better than woodson and stop giving me that age crap Tyson is only 31 he has at least 3 years left at a high level ntm the mavs have wright so Tyson won't be over used

kdspurman
07-25-2014, 07:50 AM
I agree with that. They did lose Marion and Carter who were very important guys in their locker room. Until they actually get on the court and go on road games together no one is going to know how the team will gel. They obviously have some very solid and positive locker room influences in Dirk, Tyson, and Monte but no one knows until they actually play together. The team didn't gel very well when they had OJ Mayo and Darren Collison but last year was the complete opposite. I was skeptical about Monte joining the team last year because everything I heard about him but he was great and was a prime example of an unselfish team player. Parsons should fit in considering his relationship with Dirk. The other guys we will just have to wait and see.

Yea, it's tough to predict how it will all come together before a team even plays a game together. it's fun to speculate and talk about though. of course having a guy like Dirk as their main guy and a coach like Carlisle will work in their favor and is an advantage. It's more about how the other guys will mesh like you said.

it's tough to find selfless guys in the league who are team first guys before anything else. but Carlisle is a guy that will be sure to put the right guys out there when it matters most. It just might take some time to figure that out during the season. (which is why I think they might be lower in the standings like 4-6 or so while they try and figure out what works and what doesn't)

Mr.B
07-25-2014, 09:30 AM
Yea, it's tough to predict how it will all come together before a team even plays a game together. it's fun to speculate and talk about though. of course having a guy like Dirk as their main guy and a coach like Carlisle will work in their favor and is an advantage. It's more about how the other guys will mesh like you said.

it's tough to find selfless guys in the league who are team first guys before anything else. but Carlisle is a guy that will be sure to put the right guys out there when it matters most. It just might take some time to figure that out during the season. (which is why I think they might be lower in the standings like 4-6 or so while they try and figure out what works and what doesn't)
Yea I honestly expect them to be battling for that 4th seed. After losing to the Spurs last year all Dirk and Carlisle kept talking about was how important it will be to get home court this coming year. Having home court could have made a difference in that series.

kdspurman
07-25-2014, 10:45 AM
Yea I honestly expect them to be battling for that 4th seed. After losing to the Spurs last year all Dirk and Carlisle kept talking about was how important it will be to get home court this coming year. Having home court could have made a difference in that series.

Yea. Though whenever the Spurs/Mavs play, home court rarely matters lol. Against other teams for sure. But those 2 teams, they're both accustomed to winning on eachothers court.

Mr.B
07-25-2014, 10:55 AM
Yea. Though whenever the Spurs/Mavs play, home court rarely matters lol. Against other teams for sure. But those 2 teams, they're both accustomed to winning on eachothers court.
Very true. I was happy to see the Spurs win it all again last year. If it wasn't going to be the Mavs I wanted it to be them. I use to hate the Spurs but as time has gone by its hard to hate a team that plays they way they do. Plus they're a class organization. Hopefully the Mavs/Spurs will be able to keep the rivalry going once Duncan and Dirk retire.

Sadds The Gr8
07-25-2014, 11:17 AM
Good move, solid depth signings but why are so many of you thinking this moves the needle that much. Mavs prolly wont contend IMO
exactly. wince and Calderon are big losses and their shooting will be much worse (main reason their offense was lethal last year). don't think either harris, Nelson or felton is a starter at this point and that bench does nothing for me. Chandler was a solid get I guess but probably isn't the guy he was 3 yrs ago. only pickup i like is Parsons.

also Marion was still a solid defender and they'll miss him too if they don't re-sign

kdspurman
07-25-2014, 11:26 AM
Very true. I was happy to see the Spurs win it all again last year. If it wasn't going to be the Mavs I wanted it to be them. I use to hate the Spurs but as time has gone by its hard to hate a team that plays they way they do. Plus they're a class organization. Hopefully the Mavs/Spurs will be able to keep the rivalry going once Duncan and Dirk retire.

Same for me man. I was very happy for the Mavs in 2011. I've grown to respect them even more. It was even easier once Terry left :) Still not crazy about Cuban, but I respect what he does. I sneakily wanted Dirk to play along side Duncan in recent years but knew that wouldn't happen.

Thumper 88
07-25-2014, 11:37 AM
exactly. wince and Calderon are big losses and their shooting will be much worse (main reason their offense was lethal last year). don't think either harris, Nelson or felton is a starter at this point and that bench does nothing for me. Chandler was a solid get I guess but probably isn't the guy he was 3 yrs ago. only pickup i like is Parsons.

also Marion was still a solid defender and they'll miss him too if they don't re-sign

Your just hitting all the bad points

Jose was a horrible defender and as the season went on he just became an expensive floor spacer

Matrix shooting was the worst and didn't provide very much at all in that department

Vince is one I would like to have kept, but but his price tag Dallas was able to acquire more talent

Sadds The Gr8
07-25-2014, 11:43 AM
Your just hitting all the bad points

Jose was a horrible defender and as the season went on he just became an expensive floor spacer

Matrix shooting was the worst and didn't provide very much at all in that department

Vince is one I would like to have kept, but but his price tag Dallas was able to acquire more talent

sure but Jose is a much better shooter and fit with Monta than the other 3 pg's.

Marion actually shot well from 3 last year (probably an aberration but he still shot well).

I don't think they're worse but I don't think they're much better at all. if they improved its marginal at best but we'll see.

Mr.B
07-25-2014, 11:47 AM
Your just hitting all the bad points

Jose was a horrible defender and as the season went on he just became an expensive floor spacer

Matrix shooting was the worst and didn't provide very much at all in that department

Vince is one I would like to have kept, but but his price tag Dallas was able to acquire more talent

Trix's shoot was REALLY bad. He's still an elite defender but man is he bad on offense. If given the chance he'll shoot you out of a game.

The one thing I think the Mavs will miss with Calderon is the fact that he almost never turns the ball over. Jameer should more than make up for Calderon though. Plus he's cheaper and only on a 1 year deal.

As for Vince he had his moments and I would have also liked to have kept him but I think his production can be replaced. He's not not the same Vince he was in Toronto and not even the same Vince he was in New Jersey. I don't know if Jefferson can provide the same bench production that Vince had but I have no doubt that someone will step up. It might even be one of the young guys like Crowder or Ricky Ledo.

Thumper 88
07-25-2014, 12:33 PM
Nelson is 2yr 6m

Mr.B
07-25-2014, 02:02 PM
Nelson is 2yr 6m

You're right, my bad. Still he's exactly the kind of PG the Mavs need. He's more of a game manager instead of a combo guard.

BlondeBomber41
07-25-2014, 06:29 PM
Vince Carter last year drove me nuts sometimes. For every one game he had that he really helped, he had 3 where he couldn't hit anything and was useless. It's like people forget that about him because he's gone.

Mr.B
07-25-2014, 10:23 PM
Vince Carter last year drove me nuts sometimes. For every one game he had that he really helped, he had 3 where he couldn't hit anything and was useless. It's like people forget that about him because he's gone.
I agree. Every now and then you would see flashes of the old Vince but like you said, for every good game he would have a couple of bad ones. Same with Marion. Every time I would see him shoot I would just cringe. He had to shoot more airballs than anyone in the NBA last year.