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View Full Version : Myth: Lebron makes his teammates better, Kobe does not!



L8kers4life
07-22-2014, 07:59 PM
This whole argument cracks me up. When Pau Gasol got to the Lakers, sure people said the Lakers got gifted Pau. But no one said now the Lakers are favorites with Pau. Pau was like 0-12 in the playoffs and was labeled soft. The Fact the Lakers made 3 straight finals and won 2, at a time when Duncan, Dirk, Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Parker, and the Big 3 in Boston were all in their prime tells me Kobe was a beast and so were the Lakers. But Lebron doing the exact samer thing except going to 1 extra finals, with the supporting class he had, and only faced Dirk in his Prime, says a lot. Lebron had a cake walk every year to the finals, had more help than Kobe and only won 2 out of 4 tells me Lebron isnt as great as some of you think.

Did Lebron make Wade and Bosh better, who exactly has Lebron made better in his career? We always hear the argument Kobe does not make his teammates better. But lets review. Fisher, Fox, Horry, Shaq, Walton, Bynum, Odom, Vujecic, Farmar, Pau, Shannon Brown, were any of these players better without Kobe than they were with him? None of these players have been better without Kobe than with him, every single one of these players had careeer years playing with Kobe, yes even Shaq.

Now Lebron, Bosh, Wade, Miller, Battier, Beasley, Shaq, Jamison, Varejao, Ray Allen, Mo Williams ( the only one I can think of, besides Boobie Gibson who has been better with Lebron)did any of these players become better players with Lebron, aside from the 2 rings, none of these players have been better with Lebron than without, every player on this list has seen a steep drop off in productivity, and most would say they were in decline once playing with Lebron, thats strange. Not one of these guys had a career year playing with Lebron, actually all were statistically worse. And all have had better seasons without Lebron than with. In fact most people on here now argue that Lebron had a weak supporting class, yet before Bosh and Wade played with Lebron, they had much better seasons.

So the question is does Lebron make his teammates Better and does Kobe not make his teammates better.


And for the record, LeBron is the best player in the game today in my opinion.

dalton749
07-22-2014, 08:00 PM
omg stop

dalton749
07-22-2014, 08:02 PM
totally biased

dalton749
07-22-2014, 08:02 PM
your facts arent facts

L8kers4life
07-22-2014, 08:02 PM
omg stop

Just answer the question.

dalton749
07-22-2014, 08:04 PM
myth: this thread, the 1000th thread of its kind, will finally resolve this debate

ink
07-22-2014, 08:06 PM
Pau was a great player when he arrived. Period.

goingfor28
07-22-2014, 08:07 PM
Kobe chucks. And rapes. Lebron does neither.

P&GRealist
07-22-2014, 08:08 PM
Just answer the question.
He won't. It's like a baby not willing to listen to mommy and daddy, sitting and crying in the crib, and throw his toys at them. Just won't listen to anything anyone else has to say because it's hard for him to agree.

jerellh528
07-22-2014, 08:09 PM
Nobody says kobe doesn't make his teammates better, thats proven. Everyone know lbj needs his type of "cast".

P&GRealist
07-22-2014, 08:09 PM
Kobe chucks. And rapes. Lebron does neither.

Great. Now answer the OP's question.

goingfor28
07-22-2014, 08:10 PM
Lebron made his Crappy cleveland teams better
Kobe would not have done what lebron was able to do w those squads

P&GRealist
07-22-2014, 08:11 PM
My argument would be that guys become cogs in the LeBron offense and that they don't reach their full potentials as all stars or superstars.

bucketss
07-22-2014, 08:11 PM
who said kobe doesn't make his team mates better?? thats just blasphemy :)

P&GRealist
07-22-2014, 08:12 PM
who said kobe doesn't make his team mates better?? thats just blasphemy :)

Obviously not you since you <3 Kobe.

ManRam
07-22-2014, 08:13 PM
They both make their teammates better, in different ways. LeBron's just far less selfish and an absolutely elite passer. Kobe does it mostly by taken pressure off them and with his personality (which can backfire, but still) :shrug:

P&GRealist
07-22-2014, 08:17 PM
They both make their teammates better, in different ways. LeBron's just far less selfish and an absolutely elite passer. Kobe does it mostly by taken pressure off them and with his personality (which can backfire, but still) :shrug:
Again, you do not need to shrug after every post. You can go in 1 thread without using an emoticon, can't you?

Hellcrooner
07-22-2014, 08:21 PM
Op

Check this:

Fga and usage rate by kobe and by pau in 08 finals

then fga and usage rate by kobe and by pau in 09 and 10

then fga and usage rate by kobe and by pau 11-14

also check the Per and Ws by kobe and pau in 08 then 09 -10 then 11-14


Then proceed to roll over in your bed and cry in denial.

5ass
07-22-2014, 08:24 PM
Fill Jackson.

Vee-Rex
07-22-2014, 08:30 PM
Kobe has always had incredible passing ability. Unfortunately he doesn't do it as much as he could. There's a reason why one of his nicknames is "The Great Facilitator".

AddiX
07-22-2014, 08:34 PM
Kobe fans aren't use to no one caring about the lakers and now there going into every thread, and starting threads about Kobe to make themselves feel relevant again.

It's sad...

L8kers4life
07-22-2014, 08:45 PM
Kobe fans aren't use to no one caring about the lakers and now there going into every thread, and starting threads about Kobe to make themselves feel relevant again.

It's sad...


Your sad brother, in no way do I think making this thread will make the lakers relevant, right now the lakers suck? I just want someone to name someone LeBron has made better. That's it, I want at least one LeBron fan to give me a honest answer, back it up with stats, references it doesn't matter, just show me someone that has played better with LeBron than without.

L8kers4life
07-22-2014, 08:48 PM
Op

Check this:

Fga and usage rate by kobe and by pau in 08 finals

then fga and usage rate by kobe and by pau in 09 and 10

then fga and usage rate by kobe and by pau 11-14

also check the Per and Ws by kobe and pau in 08 then 09 -10 then 11-14


Then proceed to roll over in your bed and cry in denial.

Hey Croon I'm not questioning Pau, Pau is one of my favorite players. But would you not say Pau was better when he played with Kobe than when he played for Memphis. I'm only making this thread, because PSD as a whole swears LeBron makes everyone better and Kobe does not.

Hellcrooner
07-22-2014, 09:02 PM
Hey Croon I'm not questioning Pau, Pau is one of my favorite players. But would you not say Pau was better when he played with Kobe than when he played for Memphis. I'm only making this thread, because PSD as a whole swears LeBron makes everyone better and Kobe does not.

he was the same.

Difference was that he actually had some players that he could pass the ball too to better take advantage of his team first mentality.

You are obviously going to get further passing the rock to Kobe or Odom instead of Jay Williams and James posey :D

Jamiecballer
07-22-2014, 09:12 PM
2 points -

1) Kobe played with guys on the way up in their careers. Lebron has played with established (and sometimes very good) players. These players are knowingly taking on lesser roles.

2) Phil Jackson.

Tony_Starks
07-22-2014, 09:18 PM
This conversation has been had before and nothing constructive ever comes from it.

Kobe haters are like atheist, you're not going to change their mind so you might as well just leave them alone....

Hellcrooner
07-22-2014, 09:31 PM
This conversation has been had before and nothing constructive ever comes from it.

Kobe haters are like atheist, you're not going to change their mind so you might as well just leave them alone....

And kobe fanatics are like talibans.
So i call it a tie.

Crackadalic
07-22-2014, 09:41 PM
Lebron made his Crappy cleveland teams better
Kobe would not have done what lebron was able to do w those squads

Kobe took an even worse squad in the tough WC and went 7 games with the Suns. His starting point guard was smush freaking parker. I can wax this guy smh.

On a talent standpoint it's even worse then the Lakers for this up coming season

He had Phil Jackson again but even so Kobe carried that garbage team

Tony_Starks
07-22-2014, 09:42 PM
And kobe fanatics are like talibans.
So i call it a tie.

Fair enough Hellcrooner.

Hellcrooner
07-22-2014, 09:43 PM
Kobe took an even worse squad in the tough WC and went 7 games with the Suns. His starting point guard was smush freaking parker. I can wax this guy smh.

On a talent standpoint it's even worse then the Lakers for this up coming season

He had Phil Jackson again but even so Kobe carried that garbage team

And he LOST that 7th game for the team because On purpose he refused to shoot because phil had scolded him after the 6th for chuking too much.

Yeah, great leader!!!!

Hawkeye15
07-22-2014, 09:50 PM
didn't read the bible from the OP, but every all time great makes others better. LeBron's biggest gift is that he can literally make scrubs into contributors on his way to winning 55-60 games, even if when the deep series come, his pathetic roster is exposed.

DODGERS&LAKERS
07-22-2014, 09:52 PM
The answer to the thread is yes, Kobe's teammates have seen better success playing next to him then LeBron teammates have seen playing next to him. The question is why though. I believe it has to do with the offensive systems they played in. Kobe played the majority of his career in the Triangle which does not put the onus on one player to create for all the others. LeBron has played in that exact system and it turns the other guys on the team into pawns. So one guy naturally will be seen as a giver like LeBron has been seen. The other guy will be seen as a chucker. Even though the system that Kobe played in did not require him to have as many assist as LeBrons system requires him to have.

When Kobe plays out of the triangle, his assist and assist percentage go up. But his teammates numbers suffer worse when he is playing LeBron style of basketball.

But I can name several players who seen their numbers spike playing next to Kobe. There are maybe 3 that I can say that with Lebron. It does not mean that Kobe is a better player our teammate. It just means one guy plays in a system that makes the entire team look better, and one guy plays in a system that makes one player look like he has to do everything.

I blame the coaches. David Blatt has an offensive system that he runs always predicated on ball movement, screens, and motion. He has already said that he's going to scrap his whole offense to center it around LeBron. That is what Mike Brown did, that is what Eric did in Miami. LeBron is such a great weapon these guys want to utilize him the entire game. But it does affect how his teammates perform negatively. especially when he goes to the bench. The entire offense is predicated on his ability and what he can do to break down the defense.. When there isn't another player on the roster that is able to do that, they just stand around and chuck threes.

JasonJohnHorn
07-22-2014, 09:59 PM
Both players are a great, both players make the teams they play for better, neither player makes players better.

Looking at the stats, most guys who played with LBJ posted better numbers without him.
As for Kobe... Pao Gasol may have been 0-12 in the playoffs, but the team he had was $#!T and it was a miracle they got to the playoffs in the West. That speaks volumes about Gasol to me. Kobe didn't make him better, he was already great.

I wouldn't suggest either player negatively impacts other players performances, but neither does what Magic, Nash, Duncan and Chris Paul do in terms of making people better.

Ariza's Better
07-22-2014, 09:59 PM
I'm sorry, Phil Jackson made Kobe's teammates better. Being in the east made lebrons teammates better. Simple as that.

oldbutjacked
07-22-2014, 10:01 PM
I agree that Lebron does not make his teammates better. He is 100% the best player in the league but I think his style of play hinders a team game. He is extremely ball dominant and can never have a big clog up the lane for him.

I am very curious to see how he plays with irving and how his game transforms as he gets older

Bostonjorge
07-22-2014, 11:33 PM
Kobe leads players to championships something James has yet to do. Miami didn't need to be lead with all that talent they had. Last year Miami needed a leader and they got the worse beaten in finals history. Kobe makes his players better by leading them to play great. Gasol played better with kobe and even rebound better something kobe can only help with by leading.

I would say James makes shooters shine very well. In Cleveland they had a bunch of shooter same thing in Miami. Cleveland best players on paper were not shooters and didn't work at all. Hughes, shaq, Wallace, and Jamison. In Miami it was the same. Bosh never shot 3's in Toronto but wanted to be effective with James. Haslem a good player once just fell off immediately when James got there.

Hawkeye15
07-22-2014, 11:37 PM
The answer to the thread is yes, Kobe's teammates have seen better success playing next to him then LeBron teammates have seen playing next to him. The question is why though. I believe it has to do with the offensive systems they played in. Kobe played the majority of his career in the Triangle which does not put the onus on one player to create for all the others. LeBron has played in that exact system and it turns the other guys on the team into pawns. So one guy naturally will be seen as a giver like LeBron has been seen. The other guy will be seen as a chucker. Even though the system that Kobe played in did not require him to have as many assist as LeBrons system requires him to have.

When Kobe plays out of the triangle, his assist and assist percentage go up. But his teammates numbers suffer worse when he is playing LeBron style of basketball.

But I can name several players who seen their numbers spike playing next to Kobe. There are maybe 3 that I can say that with Lebron. It does not mean that Kobe is a better player our teammate. It just means one guy plays in a system that makes the entire team look better, and one guy plays in a system that makes one player look like he has to do everything.

I blame the coaches. David Blatt has an offensive system that he runs always predicated on ball movement, screens, and motion. He has already said that he's going to scrap his whole offense to center it around LeBron. That is what Mike Brown did, that is what Eric did in Miami. LeBron is such a great weapon these guys want to utilize him the entire game. But it does affect how his teammates perform negatively. especially when he goes to the bench. The entire offense is predicated on his ability and what he can do to break down the defense.. When there isn't another player on the roster that is able to do that, they just stand around and chuck threes.

not interested in reading the rest of your crap, please, by all means, show us why........

Because, it's bull ****. Period.

jerellh528
07-22-2014, 11:37 PM
And kobe fanatics are like talibans.
So i call it a tie.

And hell crooner is a racist

DODGERS&LAKERS
07-23-2014, 12:21 AM
not interested in reading the rest of your crap, please, by all means, show us why........

Because, it's bull ****. Period.

Maybe you should read the rest of the post and come back to me so we could have a discussion

-Kobe24-TJ19-
07-23-2014, 12:32 AM
Pau was a great player when he arrived. Period.

:laugh: so wrong

mightybosstone
07-23-2014, 12:39 AM
:horse:

ink
07-23-2014, 12:39 AM
Pau was a great player when he arrived. Period.

:laugh: so wrong

You obviously didn't follow his career.

P&GRealist
07-23-2014, 12:42 AM
The answer to the thread is yes, Kobe's teammates have seen better success playing next to him then LeBron teammates have seen playing next to him. The question is why though. I believe it has to do with the offensive systems they played in. Kobe played the majority of his career in the Triangle which does not put the onus on one player to create for all the others. LeBron has played in that exact system and it turns the other guys on the team into pawns. So one guy naturally will be seen as a giver like LeBron has been seen. The other guy will be seen as a chucker. Even though the system that Kobe played in did not require him to have as many assist as LeBrons system requires him to have.

When Kobe plays out of the triangle, his assist and assist percentage go up. But his teammates numbers suffer worse when he is playing LeBron style of basketball.

But I can name several players who seen their numbers spike playing next to Kobe. There are maybe 3 that I can say that with Lebron. It does not mean that Kobe is a better player our teammate. It just means one guy plays in a system that makes the entire team look better, and one guy plays in a system that makes one player look like he has to do everything.

I blame the coaches. David Blatt has an offensive system that he runs always predicated on ball movement, screens, and motion. He has already said that he's going to scrap his whole offense to center it around LeBron. That is what Mike Brown did, that is what Eric did in Miami. LeBron is such a great weapon these guys want to utilize him the entire game. But it does affect how his teammates perform negatively. especially when he goes to the bench. The entire offense is predicated on his ability and what he can do to break down the defense.. When there isn't another player on the roster that is able to do that, they just stand around and chuck threes.

I suggest everyone read and understand this.

Very well put man.

P&GRealist
07-23-2014, 12:44 AM
I'm sorry, Phil Jackson made Kobe's teammates better. Being in the east made lebrons teammates better. Simple as that.

Then u better hope Phil replaces McFail, cuz Ariza is gonna suck for y'all next yr. (Ariza played his best ball in the 09 laker championship)

ink
07-23-2014, 12:49 AM
Wow this is a stupid thread. Anyone mind if it is closed? The level of discussion is pretty dismal.

Bostonjorge
07-23-2014, 12:50 AM
You obviously didn't follow his career.

Gasol was good in Memphis but not bosh good in Toronto. Bosh in Toronto was a better scorer and rebounder then gasol in Memphis.

Gasol got better all the way around with kobe and bosh the opposite with James. How did that happen?

ink
07-23-2014, 12:51 AM
I blame the coaches. David Blatt has an offensive system that he runs always predicated on ball movement, screens, and motion. He has already said that he's going to scrap his whole offense to center it around LeBron. That is what Mike Brown did, that is what Eric did in Miami. LeBron is such a great weapon these guys want to utilize him the entire game. But it does affect how his teammates perform negatively. especially when he goes to the bench. The entire offense is predicated on his ability and what he can do to break down the defense.. When there isn't another player on the roster that is able to do that, they just stand around and chuck threes.

Don't know about the Kobe parts but this part has truth to it. That's why we saw all the silly "he has no help" talk after the Heat got destroyed in this year's finals.

ink
07-23-2014, 12:55 AM
Gasol was good in Memphis but not bosh good in Toronto. Bosh in Toronto was a better scorer and rebounder then gasol in Memphis.

Gasol got better all the way around with kobe and bosh the opposite with James. How did that happen?

You could have fooled me. I watched every game Bosh played and didn't see nearly the same level of low post skill, versatility, ability to use a lighter frame, or just plain ball IQ from Bosh. The comparison is off topic so I won't pursue it, but Gasol already had a remarkable international resume, regardless of his lack of NBA success. If this wasn't true we wouldn't have seen the outrage when the Lakers seemingly pulled off the steal that brought Pau to LA.

ink
07-23-2014, 12:57 AM
Speaking of myths, "having no help" and "making teammates better" are two of the biggest myths in these forums. When are we ever going to get past superficial analysis in here?

Oh, let's have another Kobe vs. Wade or Kobe vs. Lebron thread? smh

TDE
07-23-2014, 12:59 AM
Kobe's teammates numbers have gone up when they play with him, Lebron's teammates numbers go down, thats a fact for the most part.

DODGERS&LAKERS
07-23-2014, 01:05 AM
You obviously didn't follow his career.

I think he is just pointing out the facts. Pau was a good player with the Grizz. But he was better as a Laker. Here are Pau's averages for his best four years with the Grizz and his best four years with the Lakers. He somehow got better as he aged.

PER
Lakers 22.75
Grizz 22.2

WS/48
Lakers-210
Grizz- 170

TS%
Lakers 586%
Grizz 577%

Off rating
Lakers120.25
Grizz 112

Def rating
Lakers- 103.25
Grizz 102.25

You can do the rest for yourself if you don't believe me. Check rebounding rates, assist rates, turnover rates. Pretty much across the board he jumped up as a player. I can do that same thing for multiple players including Lamar, Shaq, Fish, and many other players that played any significant time both with Kobe and without him. If you do the same thing with Lebron and his teammates, you usually get the opposite of positive results.

ink
07-23-2014, 01:12 AM
You obviously didn't follow his career.

I think he is just pointing out the facts. Pau was a good player with the Grizz. But he was better as a Laker. Here are Pau's averages for his best four years with the Grizz and his best four years with the Lakers. He somehow got better as he aged.

PER
Lakers 22.75
Grizz 22.2

WS/48
Lakers-210
Grizz- 170

TS%
Lakers 586%
Grizz 577%

Off WS-
Lakers120.25
Grizz 112

Def WS
Lakers- 103.25
Grizz 102.25

You can do the rest for yourself if you don't believe me. Check rebounding rates, assist rates, turnover rates. Pretty much across the board he jumped up as a player. I can do that same thing for multiple players including Lamar, Shaq, Fish, and many other players that played any significant time both with Kobe and without him. If you do the same thing with Lebron and his teammates, you usually get the opposite of positive results.

Pretty marginal "improvements". I'm not interested in the stupid Kobe vs Lebron fights. I have zero idea why grown adults waste their time fighting over this again and again. The stats most of you use to "prove" this stuff is like comparing who has the most marbles. Pau was a finished product and in his prime when he was acquired. If anything coaching was responsible for any additional development.

GREATNESS ONE
07-23-2014, 01:14 AM
not interested in reading the rest of your crap, please, by all means, show us why........

Because, it's bull ****. Period.

:laugh2:

bolts4ever
07-23-2014, 01:19 AM
One thing I never hear come up in the Kobe vs Lebron debate is that Lebron has played every year of his career is the Least I mean East. Kobe defeated every power house in the late 90's all the way to the late 2000's Spurs-Blazers-Kings-Thunder and so on.

DODGERS&LAKERS
07-23-2014, 01:22 AM
I'm not interested in the stupid Kobe vs Lebron fights. I have zero idea why grown adults waste their time fighting over this again and again. The stats most of you use to "prove" thus stiff us like comparing who has the most marbles. Pau was a finished product and in his prime when he was acquired. If anything coaching was responsible for any additional development.

You may be right. But just because you don't like the conversation doesn't mean it will stop.

Since you cannot stop the narrative, wouldn't you like it to be backed up by statistics?

For years everyone threw out the narrative that Kobe was clutch. But then people did the research and found that he had a below average showing in clutch time moments. Isnt it better that someone found that or should we all just be sheep and go with popular opinion with no statistical analysis to back up these claims.

Another big one out there is that Kobe does not make his teammates better. I can prove without the shadow of a doubt that players thrive next to Kobe. Now whether it is in relation to what he does for them in a game, how he pushed them to be their best, how hard he works in practice, or if it has nothing to do with him at all, I don't know. But one thing I do know is that even if he is not directly responsible for improved production, he certainty did not do anything to deter his teammates from thriving. And that is what the masses would lead you to believe because he is a ball hogging, rapist, chucker, who everyone hates.

Another narrative that is very prevalent is that Lebron makes his teammates better because he averaged 2 more assist per game than Kobe did. When I go to look at things to back up those claims, I see no evidence.

Its not just for Lebron and Kobe either. I looked at Steve Nash and he is amazing at getting guys to have career years next to him.

L8kers4life
07-23-2014, 01:22 AM
Pretty marginal "improvements". I'm not interested in the stupid Kobe vs Lebron fights. I have zero idea why grown adults waste their time fighting over this again and again. The stats most of you use to "prove" this stuff is like comparing who has the most marbles. Pau was a finished product and in his prime when he was acquired. If anything coaching was responsible for any additional development.

Kobe was capable of dropping 70 at anytime when Pau arrived. Before Bynum went down that year the Lakers had the best record in the west. Pau came and he immediately got wide open looks he had never seen because Kobe was commanding double and triple teams. I will admit the triangle and Phil played there part, but kobe was the general on the court, he made everyone's life easier.

ink
07-23-2014, 01:28 AM
I'm not interested in the stupid Kobe vs Lebron fights. I have zero idea why grown adults waste their time fighting over this again and again. The stats most of you use to "prove" thus stiff us like comparing who has the most marbles. Pau was a finished product and in his prime when he was acquired. If anything coaching was responsible for any additional development.

You may be right. But just because you don't like the conversation doesn't mean it will stop.

Since you cannot stop the narrative, wouldn't you like it to be backed up by statistics?

Nope. Seriously. It is mind blowing how stupid these arguments are.

L8kers4life
07-23-2014, 01:34 AM
Gasol was good in Memphis but not bosh good in Toronto. Bosh in Toronto was a better scorer and rebounder then gasol in Memphis.

Gasol got better all the way around with kobe and bosh the opposite with James. How did that happen?

Bosh was in Toronto averaging 24 and 11 he was a step above Pau and many people at that time wanted Bosh on the Lakers. Bosh than averaged 18 and 8 in Miami, all his stats declined, his rebound numbers went down, why because he could not get as many offensive rebounds because he was to busy becoming a 3 point shooter. I'm not even gonna start with Wade. LeBron is so good he makes everyone a spot up shooter because he has to make the plays for everyone. I'm not even sure any LeBron team has had a true post player. Shaq was it but he was over the hill.

ink
07-23-2014, 01:39 AM
Gasol was good in Memphis but not bosh good in Toronto. Bosh in Toronto was a better scorer and rebounder then gasol in Memphis.

Gasol got better all the way around with kobe and bosh the opposite with James. How did that happen?

Bosh was in Toronto averaging 24 and 11 he was a step above Pau and many people at that time wanted Bosh on the Lakers. Bosh than averaged 18 and 8 in Miami, all his stats declined, his rebound numbers went down, why because he could not get as many offensive rebounds because he was to busy becoming a 3 point shooter. I'm not even gonna start with Wade. LeBron is so good he makes everyone a spot up shooter because he has to make the plays for everyone. I'm not even sure any LeBron team has had a true post player. Shaq was it but he was over the hill.

Scoring and rebound stats. Deep analysis. Or maybe being a player fan makes one waste time arguing over nothing.

Sadds The Gr8
07-23-2014, 01:48 AM
Not favourites? The Lakers were immediately seen as the best team in the west by pretty much everyone after the Pau trade............

DODGERS&LAKERS
07-23-2014, 01:51 AM
Pau was a great player when he arrived. Period.


You obviously didn't follow his career.


Nope. Seriously. It is mind blowing how stupid these arguments are.

The first two quotes of yours above were your first two of this thread. You obviously wanted to engage in the discussion. Not sure what changed.

Its fine if you don't like these talks. But its July and there is not much else going on. I guess I can go into the "What number should Lebron wear next year" thread but in regards to that subject, I'm like you about this one, I could care less what they have to say in that thread. Only difference is that I can avoid subjects that I don't care about and not put my two cents in. And on top of that tell people they are acting like children who do participate while simultaneously participating in the very subject you demean......

I guess what Im saying is if you don't like what the discussion is about, or if you like that it promotes a player that I know for a fact you have disdain for, maybe it would be easier to do your duties as a mod and make sure no one is insulting one another, posting pictures, or using links that they should not be and move on without giving your opinion and then saying that you don't like this subject once someone shows you your opinion may be a little off. But that's just me....

ink
07-23-2014, 01:55 AM
Pau was a great player when he arrived. Period.


You obviously didn't follow his career.


Nope. Seriously. It is mind blowing how stupid these arguments are.

The first two quotes of yours above were your first two of this thread. You obviously wanted to engage in the discussion. Not sure what changed.

Its fine if you don't like these talks. But its July and there is not much else going on. I guess I can go into the "What number should Lebron wear next year" thread but in regards to that subject, I'm like you about this one, I could care less what they have to say in that thread. Only difference is that I can avoid subjects that I don't care about and not put my two cents in. And on top of that tell people they are acting like children who do participate while simultaneously participating in the very subject you demean......

I guess what Im saying is if you don't like what the discussion is about, or if you like that it promotes a player that I know for a fact you have disdain for, maybe it would be easier to do your duties as a mod and make sure no one is insulting one another, posting pictures, or using links that they should not be and move on without giving your opinion and then saying that you don't like this subject once someone shows you your opinion may be a little off. But that's just me....

You're an intelligent poster. Instead of wasting your time on this latest "Kobe is the best" dreck how about ignoring it and talking about the schooling the spurs just put on the whole league. THAT, not this, is basketball. Just a suggestion.

DODGERS&LAKERS
07-23-2014, 01:55 AM
Scoring and rebound stats. Deep analysis. Or maybe being a player fan makes one waste time arguing over nothing.

He might have posted scoring and rebounding numbers since he saw that you weren't impressed that Pau's advanced numbers improved across the board next to the ball hog.

P&GRealist
07-23-2014, 01:57 AM
Not favourites? The Lakers were immediately seen as the best team in the west by pretty much everyone after the Pau trade............

Not when the trade happened, but AFTER their perfect road trip heading into the all star break.

DODGERS&LAKERS
07-23-2014, 02:00 AM
You're an intelligent poster. Instead of wasting your time on this latest "Kobe is the best" dreck how about ignoring it and talking about the schooling the spurs just put on the whole league. THAT, not this, is basketball. Just a suggestion.

I have avoided these types of threads because you are right, they are redundant. I have not posted in any of the who are the greatest threads, or the last 50 Kobe vs (insert player here). Just because I chose to post in this thread does not mean I am wasting my time. For the moment I am enjoying it.

ink
07-23-2014, 02:00 AM
Scoring and rebound stats. Deep analysis. Or maybe being a player fan makes one waste time arguing over nothing.

He might have posted scoring and rebounding numbers since he saw that you weren't impressed that Pau's advanced numbers improved across the board next to the ball hog.

The improvement was minimal.
Look I'm not taking sides because all the star-arguing dumbs down the sport, but at least lets acknowledge talent like Pau (or anyone else) doesn't need our hero to succeed. He was coveted at the time because he was brilliant. And btw that doesn't make me a Pau fanboy. It's about giving credit where it's due.

ink
07-23-2014, 02:02 AM
You're an intelligent poster. Instead of wasting your time on this latest "Kobe is the best" dreck how about ignoring it and talking about the schooling the spurs just put on the whole league. THAT, not this, is basketball. Just a suggestion.

I have avoided these types of threads because you are right, they are redundant. I have not posted in any of the who are the greatest threads, or the last 50 Kobe vs (insert player here). Just because I chose to post in this thread does not mean I am wasting my time. For the moment I am enjoying it.

Fair enough. I've avoided the last 5,999 for similar reasons. lol.

Ariza's Better
07-23-2014, 02:02 AM
Then u better hope Phil replaces McFail, cuz Ariza is gonna suck for y'all next yr. (Ariza played his best ball in the 09 laker championship)
Ok......

AsiandudePH
07-23-2014, 02:04 AM
Can't we all just get along?

Both players demand attention = Both players make teammates better on that fact alone.

It's not just how many assists or passes they make, how they motivate teammates, or how many games a player won when paired up with player X.

And yeah, with that said any player who demands as much attention sa Bron and Kobe have do make their teammates better 'cause obviously defenses will focus more on the stars.

DODGERS&LAKERS
07-23-2014, 02:10 AM
The improvement was minimal.
Look I'm not taking sides because all the star-arguing dumbs down the sport, but at least lets acknowledge talent like Pau (or anyone else) doesn't need our hero to succeed. He was coveted at the time because he was brilliant. And btw that doesn't make me a Pau fanboy. It's about giving credit where it's due.

Pau was very good. I remember hearing about the trade when it went down and I could not believe it. I never said anything disparaging about Pau. Forgive me but I don't remember anyone saying he was bad in here. I may have missed it. My whole thing was just showing that Pau was a very good player, did see better production next to a player many try to portray as a deterrent.

Truth be told, I believe the main reason he improved is because he was given the post spot of the triangle offense which is the prime spot in the offense that is perfect for Paus skillset.

ink
07-23-2014, 02:13 AM
The improvement was minimal.
Look I'm not taking sides because all the star-arguing dumbs down the sport, but at least lets acknowledge talent like Pau (or anyone else) doesn't need our hero to succeed. He was coveted at the time because he was brilliant. And btw that doesn't make me a Pau fanboy. It's about giving credit where it's due.

Pau was very good. I remember hearing about the trade when it went down and I could not believe it. I never said anything disparaging about Pau. Forgive me but I don't remember anyone saying he was bad in here. I may have missed it. My whole thing was just showing that Pau was a very good player, did see better production next to a player many try to portray as a deterrent.

Truth be told, I believe the main reason he improved is because he was given the post spot of the triangle offense which is the prime spot in the offense that is perfect for Paus skillset.

Fair comment again. He benefitted from the offensive structure and the organization.