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View Full Version : Skip Bayless Just Said Prime For Prime Dwayne Wade Is Better Than Lebron James



RocketLoc80
07-21-2014, 03:11 PM
What does everybody make of this crap?

DR_1
07-21-2014, 03:12 PM
That Skip hates LeBron nothing new here lol

goingfor28
07-21-2014, 03:14 PM
SAS and Skip are both stupid. They get paid to argue. I don't think either of them believes half the stuff they say honestly.

jaydubb
07-21-2014, 03:14 PM
Skips always been hating on lebrons *** haha

He probably thinks Chris bosh is better too

jaydubb
07-21-2014, 03:15 PM
SAS and Skip are both stupid. They get paid to argue. I don't think either of them believes half the stuff they say honestly.

Pretty much this.. :nod:

JEDean89
07-21-2014, 03:16 PM
why does anyone care what skip says? the dude has 0 authority on sports, absolutely 0.

P&GRealist
07-21-2014, 03:24 PM
You can make the argument that Prime Wade had more success and did more with less than prime LeBron has done with more talent.

ManRam
07-21-2014, 03:25 PM
I'm more concerned with the people that watch and obsess over what he says than what he says at this point.

Tony_Starks
07-21-2014, 03:31 PM
Wade does have a ring and finals MVP without Lebron. What he's saying is debatable, it's not as blasphemous as people are making it.

Of course it's a lot easier to just call him a idiot hater tho.....

RocketLoc80
07-21-2014, 03:36 PM
You can make the argument that Prime Wade had more success and did more with less than prime LeBron has done with more talent.

So you would take D Wade over Lebron overall?

XpLiCiTT
07-21-2014, 03:37 PM
You can make the argument that Prime Wade had more success and did more with less than prime LeBron has done with more talent.

I'd love to hear that argument.

ghettosean
07-21-2014, 03:43 PM
I've always thought this and have said this before... A healthy D-wade > Lebron

Why must everything be Lebron is the best and if not your automatically a hater???

Method28
07-21-2014, 03:44 PM
Skip is no different than many PSDers. When it comes to LeBron there's always some lame excuse they bring up to hate on LeBron. Pathetic.

XpLiCiTT
07-21-2014, 03:45 PM
I've always thought this and have said this before... A healthy D-wade > Lebron

Why must everything be Lebron is the best and if not your automatically a hater???

It's not that you're a hater, but if you honestly believe DWade > LeBron then you shouldn't be talking basketball..

ghettosean
07-21-2014, 03:46 PM
I've always thought this and have said this before... A healthy D-wade > Lebron

Why must everything be Lebron is the best and if not your automatically a hater???

It's not that you're a hater, but if you honestly believe DWade > LeBron then you shouldn't be talking basketball.. I said a healthy D-Wade and why? Because you think differently... SMH

XpLiCiTT
07-21-2014, 03:50 PM
I said a healthy D-Wade and why? Because you think differently... SMH

I know what you said. And it is ridiculous. There isn't one facet of basketball that Wade has over LeBron.

What is your reasoning?

mjt20mik
07-21-2014, 03:53 PM
Prime Wade was pretty damn good. Basically won 06 by himself. However, I think a Prime Lebron is unstoppable. Case can be made, but Lebron is still in his prime so we'll see what he does in CLE.

More-Than-Most
07-21-2014, 03:57 PM
I said a healthy D-Wade and why? Because you think differently... SMH

because its flat out stupid. Period. Wade isnt close to Lebron even in both their primes. Wade is closer to Kobe in his prime maybe when you match them up like that. Prime james is far better than Prime wade/kobe and so on and its not close.

astonmartin10
07-21-2014, 03:59 PM
I can't believe talking nonsense gets you a job at ESPN.

0nekhmer
07-21-2014, 03:59 PM
Wade was one of the few true superstars that actually carried his team with a terrible supporting cast to the playoffs. Similarly to Lebron, but wade was never able to bring them out of the first round(without shaq) while lebron reached the conference finals, and the finals once. Both tremendous at their peak, and to be honest i don't see lebron getting any worse right now so he's still only getting better while wade plateaud already. No real argument in Wades favour tbh..

Tony_Starks
07-21-2014, 03:59 PM
I know what you said. And it is ridiculous. There isn't one facet of basketball that Wade has over LeBron.

What is your reasoning?

That is totally inaccurate. Wade has better footwork, has a better handle, and his post game and mid range pull up are better than Lebrons for starters. When motivated he's also a better one-on-one defender, though Lebron is a better team defender.

Lebron is better than Wade in many areas, court vision for example, but to act like he's better in each and every single facet of the game is a exaggeration.

Heatcheck
07-21-2014, 04:00 PM
I know what you said. And it is ridiculous. There isn't one facet of basketball that Wade has over LeBron.

What is your reasoning?

Watching them both for the last 10 years, I think wade can create his own shot a lot better than LeBron, and can penetrate way better. People forget Wade played pg his first year and is actually very good bringing the ball up setting up his teammates, although because of his size, lebrons a better passer, takes care of the ball better, and a bit better rebounder. but if you take into consideration how well wade rebounded for his size, that's debatable.

In the end I think Lebrons is better. shoots much better from 3 and is much more versatile on the defensive end, although they are both elite at creating turnovers.

Hawkeye15
07-21-2014, 04:01 PM
while Wade had one of the most dominant finals performances of all time, in no way, shape, or form is he on LeBron James level throughout their peak, prime, or career. Wade will end up top 20, no doubt. LeBron probably top 3-5.

bucketss
07-21-2014, 04:07 PM
PEAK wade in 2009 was up there with bron definitely,

Minimal
07-21-2014, 04:08 PM
because its flat out stupid. Period. Wade isnt close to Lebron even in both their primes. Wade is closer to Kobe in his prime maybe when you match them up like that. Prime james is far better than Prime wade/kobe and so on and its not close.
prime wade was better than prime kobe, and there was a time when wade and bron were 2 best players in nba.

XpLiCiTT
07-21-2014, 04:08 PM
That is totally inaccurate. Wade has better footwork, has a better handle, and his post game and mid range pull up are better than Lebrons for starters. When motivated he's also a better one-on-one defender, though Lebron is a better team defender.

Lebron is better than Wade in many areas, court vision for example, but to act like he's better in each and every single facet of the game is a exaggeration.

LeBron is a better passer, defender, shooter, and rebounder.

I agree, I exaggerated a bit if you actually break down the ins-and-outs. Wade has a better handle, probably footwork too. Mid-range pull up is about even, and LeBron is the better 3 point shooter. Wade is not a better post player at all.

I just find it ridiculous that we're even having this conversation.

MJL80
07-21-2014, 04:12 PM
who cares

Heatcheck
07-21-2014, 04:15 PM
LeBron is a better passer, defender, shooter, and rebounder.

I agree, I exaggerated a bit if you actually break down the ins-and-outs. Wade has a better handle, probably footwork too. Mid-range pull up is about even, and LeBron is the better 3 point shooter. Wade is not a better post player at all.

I just find it ridiculous that we're even having this conversation.

Its sports, nothing is ridiculous.

bucketss
07-21-2014, 04:17 PM
prime wade was better than prime kobe, and there was a time when wade and bron were 2 best players in nba.

lol agreed wade was ridiculous back than

Tony_Starks
07-21-2014, 04:17 PM
LeBron is a better passer, defender, shooter, and rebounder.

I agree, I exaggerated a bit if you actually break down the ins-and-outs. Wade has a better handle, probably footwork too. Mid-range pull up is about even, and LeBron is the better 3 point shooter. Wade is not a better post player at all.

I just find it ridiculous that we're even having this conversation.

Why does it have to be ridiculous though? People have to get over this thing where mentioning anyone in the same sentence as Lebron is just considered ignorant or hating. There are/ were players in their primes that did some things better than him.

It's just like when people used to argue AI, TMac, and even Ray over Kobe when they were all in their primes. I didn't agree with them but still had to acknowledge it was at least debatable....

ghettosean
07-21-2014, 04:29 PM
I said a healthy D-Wade and why? Because you think differently... SMH

I know what you said. And it is ridiculous. There isn't one facet of basketball that Wade has over LeBron.

What is your reasoning?

Mentally he's stronger than Lebron I'm not sure many would argue this... As a teammate i truly think he made Lebron what he is today especially after Lebrons complete disappearance in the 2011 finals vs Dallas. When Lebron was on the cavs he was too busy making jokes and dancing and pretending to take pictures for the cameras (litterly) he made it a ritual if you remember ... while Dwade *****es out Jermaine Oneal, Beasely and his teammates for joking around in the locker room for busting jokes and not focusing on the task at hand before a playoff game. (Cannot find the quotes from spolstra on this but it happened... i could find an article and video of him *****ing out Lebron for being so passive and NON AGGRESSIVE vs Dallas though if you want instead).

We can add D wade won a ring before Bron and a finals MVP and to add when they teamed up most were leaning that Wade should be finals mvp had they defeated Dallas.

There numbers in there primes are so comparable its not even funny but wade has always had the mental edge and relished moments when the game is all on the line and would always rise to the challenge i just don't find that with Lebron. I also think wade is a more skilled player with the ball when things are riding on him. Lebron just uses his strength to bulldoze through everyone hoping for a foul or hoping one of his teammates bails him out (unless he chuck's it from far). He was posting up after joining Miami.

Look there's no doubt Lebron is having a better career but the only divide between them in that regards is health to me.

I'm on my phone can't look up stats and all details but those are things off the top of my head.

Why do you think no one knows anything about basketball if they don't think Bron is better healthy D-Wade?




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UuFX6ECi4M&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Hawkeye15
07-21-2014, 04:31 PM
Why does it have to be ridiculous though? People have to get over this thing where mentioning anyone in the same sentence as Lebron is just considered ignorant or hating. There are/ were players in their primes that did some things better than him.

It's just like when people used to argue AI, TMac, and even Ray over Kobe when they were all in their primes. I didn't agree with them but still had to acknowledge it was at least debatable....

TMac's actualy peak is debateable, but neither of those other guys have any reasonable debate here.

Wade has no reasonable debate. Now, did Wade have the best finals series of the 2? That is for sure debateable. But at his peak, he was not in LeBron's class peak wise. He just wasn't. We are talking about statistically the most dominant player since Jordan, pretty easily.

ghettosean
07-21-2014, 04:32 PM
Favorite D-Wade moment... was a huge fan of him back in the day... now i think he's just used up and a floppy cocky *****... lol.

This was just magnificent though:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ke1yEEre_g&feature=youtube_gdata_player

ghettosean
07-21-2014, 04:35 PM
Bleacher Report went into detail on this when the big 3 formed.

Guess who they thought was better :D

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/791470-lebron-james-vs-dwyane-wade-who-is-the-better-player

Hawkeye15
07-21-2014, 04:40 PM
Bleacher Report went into detail on this when the big 3 formed.

Guess who they thought was better :D

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/791470-lebron-james-vs-dwyane-wade-who-is-the-better-player

bleacherreport? Not sure which is a bigger joke, them or Slam Magazine...

ghettosean
07-21-2014, 04:41 PM
bleacherreport? Not sure which is a bigger joke, them or Slam Magazine...

They thought Prime Dwade > Lebron so they must be jokers right... LOL :rolleyes:

ghettosean
07-21-2014, 04:44 PM
Just to be fair again I think Lebron has the greater career than Wade but I will take a healthy D-Wade over Lebron any day of the week. He's just a more skilled player especially in clutch situations, mentally stronger and a better leader in the locker room.

Just my opinion.

bucketss
07-21-2014, 04:44 PM
what has me more confused is that Stephen A.smith said kevin love is no carmelo LOLOLOL

Hawkeye15
07-21-2014, 04:46 PM
They thought Prime Dwade > Lebron so they must be jokers right... LOL :rolleyes:

I doubt they were joking, they are the 2 biggest joke publications I can think of.

Hawkeye15
07-21-2014, 04:46 PM
Just to be fair again I think Lebron has the greater career than Wade but I will take a healthy D-Wade over Lebron any day of the week. He's just a more skilled player especially in clutch situations, mentally stronger and a better leader in the locker room.

Just my opinion.

can you back up your opinion with anything other than your opinion? Show me how Wade was better.

ghettosean
07-21-2014, 04:51 PM
They thought Prime Dwade > Lebron so they must be jokers right... LOL :rolleyes:

I doubt they were joking, they are the 2 biggest joke publications I can think of.

Can you back that up with something other than your opinion?

ghettosean
07-21-2014, 04:52 PM
Just to be fair again I think Lebron has the greater career than Wade but I will take a healthy D-Wade over Lebron any day of the week. He's just a more skilled player especially in clutch situations, mentally stronger and a better leader in the locker room.

Just my opinion.

can you back up your opinion with anything other than your opinion? Show me how Wade was better.

I wrote a more detailed post above if you care to debate

Hawkeye15
07-21-2014, 05:02 PM
Can you back that up with something other than your opinion?

Sure, do you simply want to see how dominant LeBron's numbers are over Wade? You are trying to use objective opinion, I get that, but none of it has merit when in fact we have seen a healthy Wade, and his production, and impact don't equal LeBron's.

Hawkeye15
07-21-2014, 05:03 PM
Pick Wade's best year, the one you think he has a case over LeBron with.

seikou8
07-21-2014, 05:08 PM
i thought this silly d-wade vs lebron was over i guess its not lebron is better than d-wade prime ,healthy ,not healthy it does not matter, d-wade is still an all time great but this comparison is over

ghettosean
07-21-2014, 05:18 PM
Can you back that up with something other than your opinion?

Sure, do you simply want to see how dominant LeBron's numbers are over Wade? You are trying to use objective opinion, I get that, but none of it has merit when in fact we have seen a healthy Wade, and his production, and impact don't equal LeBron's.

Everything is not black and white to me in that regard as i don't think stats tell the whole story on a career or KAJ would have taken over MJ on the GOAT list in PSD... Also he did get a ring and finals MVP before Bron if we are talking impact.

If you want to bring up prime vs prime stats though be my guest I wouldn't mind checking it out. So we can see how dominant those stats are.

XpLiCiTT
07-21-2014, 05:28 PM
can you back up your opinion with anything other than your opinion? Show me how Wade was better.

He did show you how Wade is better. LeBron takes pictures before games and makes jokes with teammates. LeBron also dances before games. Wade is clearly better.

Tony_Starks
07-21-2014, 05:29 PM
It should noted that when they initially combined forces both Lebron and Wade stated that they each thought they would be forfeiting MVPs from then on. Basically because they felt the voters would hold it against them player with another top player... i.e. the Shaq/Kobe rule.

So basically at that point they were considered peers, Wade's swift health decline makes it easy to forget that...

ghettosean
07-21-2014, 05:30 PM
can you back up your opinion with anything other than your opinion? Show me how Wade was better.

He did show you how Wade is better. LeBron takes pictures before games and makes jokes with teammates. LeBron also dances before games. Wade is clearly better.

Funny how you ask a question and when the poster asks for ypur rebuttal you respond to a later post with jokes instead of debating.

TAKE THIS GUY SERIOUSLY PLEASE

ghettosean
07-21-2014, 05:33 PM
Just to be fair again I think Lebron has the greater career than Wade but I will take a healthy D-Wade over Lebron any day of the week. He's just a more skilled player especially in clutch situations, mentally stronger and a better leader in the locker room.

Just my opinion.

Just to bold and state that again for the clowns

XpLiCiTT
07-21-2014, 05:44 PM
Mentally he's stronger than Lebron I'm not sure many would argue this... As a teammate i truly think he made Lebron what he is today especially after Lebrons complete disappearance in the 2011 finals vs Dallas.

He's "mentally stronger". Thats so vague. LeBron had an awful series in the finals against the Mavs, other than that he has been very "mentally strong". LeBron was already a 2 time league MVP before coming to Miami, how did Wade make LeBron what he is today? LeBron motivated himself after those finals because he knew he didn't show up.


When Lebron was on the cavs he was too busy making jokes and dancing and pretending to take pictures for the cameras (litterly) he made it a ritual if you remember ... while Dwade *****es out Jermaine Oneal, Beasely and his teammates for joking around in the locker room for busting jokes and not focusing on the task at hand before a playoff game. (Cannot find the quotes from spolstra on this but it happened... i could find an article and video of him *****ing out Lebron for being so passive and NON AGGRESSIVE vs Dallas though if you want instead).

I don't even know what this paragraph means or how it has any relevance to who is a better basketball player. LeBron makes jokes and dances? Wade "*****es out" O'Neal, Beasley, and others..what? Maybe because Wade couldn't get out of the first round of the playoffs without Shaq until LeBron came.


We can add D wade won a ring before Bron and a finals MVP and to add when they teamed up most were leaning that Wade should be finals mvp had they defeated Dallas.

Who cares that he won before LeBron, thats irrelevant. Wade truly did ball out that series. It was a historic performance, but it is irrelevant when saying who is the better player.


There numbers in there primes are so comparable its not even funny but wade has always had the mental edge and relished moments when the game is all on the line and would always rise to the challenge i just don't find that with Lebron. I also think wade is a more skilled player with the ball when things are riding on him. Lebron just uses his strength to bulldoze through everyone hoping for a foul or hoping one of his teammates bails him out (unless he chuck's it from far). He was posting up after joining Miami.

This is all speculation and opinion. Use some facts. Their numbers are really not all that comparable. LeBrons are better by a pretty good margin.


Look there's no doubt Lebron is having a better career but the only divide between them in that regards is health to me.

Why do you think no one knows anything about basketball if they don't think Bron is better healthy D-Wade?

Ok so healthy DWade > LeBron. What are you basing this off of? We have all seen healthy DWade, he is amazing. And he is still not better than prime LeBron.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UuFX6ECi4M&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Did you really just provide a video of LeBron dancing as evidence to why he isn't as good as Wade? :facepalm:

YAALREADYKNO
07-21-2014, 06:07 PM
people are ridiculous to think that a prime wade was actually better than a prime lebron. Wade had a dominant nba finals in 06 but he did play with shaq who was still averaging 20ppg. That 07 cavs squad that lebron took to the finals had no business beating detroit that yr but that series was just a simple case of the best player on the court just took over.

YAALREADYKNO
07-21-2014, 06:11 PM
prime wade was better than prime kobe, and there was a time when wade and bron were 2 best players in nba.

HAHA you're joking right? Prime wade over Prime kobe? LOLOLOL prime kobe was the most feared player in the league because he had the ability to bring you back down from 15 by himself. Wade was a great scorer too but teams never feared wade as much as they did kobe.

ghettosean
07-21-2014, 06:12 PM
Mentally he's stronger than Lebron I'm not sure many would argue this... As a teammate i truly think he made Lebron what he is today especially after Lebrons complete disappearance in the 2011 finals vs Dallas.

He's "mentally stronger". Thats so vague. LeBron had an awful series in the finals against the Mavs, other than that he has been very "mentally strong". LeBron was already a 2 time league MVP before coming to Miami, how did Wade make LeBron what he is today? LeBron motivated himself after those finals because he knew he didn't show up.


When Lebron was on the cavs he was too busy making jokes and dancing and pretending to take pictures for the cameras (litterly) he made it a ritual if you remember ... while Dwade *****es out Jermaine Oneal, Beasely and his teammates for joking around in the locker room for busting jokes and not focusing on the task at hand before a playoff game. (Cannot find the quotes from spolstra on this but it happened... i could find an article and video of him *****ing out Lebron for being so passive and NON AGGRESSIVE vs Dallas though if you want instead).

I don't even know what this paragraph means or how it has any relevance to who is a better basketball player. LeBron makes jokes and dances? Wade "*****es out" O'Neal, Beasley, and others..what? Maybe because Wade couldn't get out of the first round of the playoffs without Shaq until LeBron came.


We can add D wade won a ring before Bron and a finals MVP and to add when they teamed up most were leaning that Wade should be finals mvp had they defeated Dallas.

Who cares that he won before LeBron, thats irrelevant. Wade truly did ball out that series. It was a historic performance, but it is irrelevant when saying who is the better player.


There numbers in there primes are so comparable its not even funny but wade has always had the mental edge and relished moments when the game is all on the line and would always rise to the challenge i just don't find that with Lebron. I also think wade is a more skilled player with the ball when things are riding on him. Lebron just uses his strength to bulldoze through everyone hoping for a foul or hoping one of his teammates bails him out (unless he chuck's it from far). He was posting up after joining Miami.

This is all speculation and opinion. Use some facts. Their numbers are really not all that comparable. LeBrons are better by a pretty good margin.


Look there's no doubt Lebron is having a better career but the only divide between them in that regards is health to me.

Why do you think no one knows anything about basketball if they don't think Bron is better healthy D-Wade?

Ok so healthy DWade > LeBron. What are you basing this off of? We have all seen healthy DWade, he is amazing. And he is still not better than prime LeBron.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UuFX6ECi4M&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Did you really just provide a video of LeBron dancing as evidence to why he isn't as good as Wade? :facepalm:

You criticize my post saying I'm using no facts and provide non in your rebuttal except cut ups... Is there a double standard here or am i missing something.

Also you still never answered my question... Why does no one know anything about basketball if they believe prime wade is better than Lebron?

No dodges please :)

SteelBlitz
07-21-2014, 06:20 PM
The reason Skip Bayless has any fame whatsoever is because he makes people say "Skip Bayless just said..."

If everyone just stops listening to this idiot and stops watching any show he is on he will go away

ghettosean
07-21-2014, 06:21 PM
Just to add the video was 30 seconds and was to remind everyone of the type of leader Lebron WAS compared to Wade. Love to see someone find MJ or Bird doing that before a game. He wasn't a good leader dude and was afraid of the big moments. Wade would thrive in those situations Lebron just didn't... even late in his career Ray Ray saved his *** in clutch time.

XpLiCiTT
07-21-2014, 06:25 PM
You criticize my post saying I'm using no facts and provide non in your rebuttal except cut ups... Is there a double standard here or am i missing something.

You're right I guess its because I am baffled to even be having this conversation.

Here are just a few facts for you since you request them if you really want to compare them a bit:
- LeBron is a 4x league MVP. Wade is a 0x league MVP
- LeBron was a 2x MVP BEFORE joining DWade in Miami. Together they won 2 championships, who was the finals MVP of both? LeBron.
- LeBron is a 8x NBA all first team player. Wade has made all NBA first team just 2x
- LeBron is a 5x NBA defensive all first team. Wade has never made first team defense.

Then if you want to go into statistics, LeBron is better in just about every single one. Even advanced stats such as PER or WS/48, LeBron is significantly better.


Just to add the video was 30 seconds and was to remind everyone of the type of leader Lebron WAS compared to Wade. Love to see someone find MJ or Bird doing that before a game. He wasn't a good leader dude and was afraid of the big moments. Wade would thrive in those situations Lebron just didn't... even late in his career Ray Ray saved his *** in clutch time.

LeBron wasn't a good leader because he joked with teammates? He carried an absolute awful Cavs team to the finals and gave them two 60+ win seasons along with two 50+ win seasons. How was he not a good leader? He was a GREAT leader. Oh wait you're one of those that disregards everything that happened and says "Ray Ray" saved him. Well if thats the case, where was your boy Wade????


To answer your question, you shouldn't be talking basketball if you think prime DWade is better than prime LeBron because there is NOTHING that supports that other than your opinion. Everything supports LeBron as the superior player.

You have YET to answer MY question. What are you basing your opinion off of? So far it seems your opinion is based off a YouTube video of LeBron having a sense of humor when he played for the Cavs. Got anything better than that?

PurpleLynch
07-21-2014, 06:35 PM
Skip Bayless defended Tim Tebow. That's all I have to say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUUPNzF3-2Q

ThornMo
07-21-2014, 06:45 PM
...and prime len bias was better than prime MJ?

not trying to be offensive here, just making the point that this is a stupid arguement. but if you took all wade and lebrons best seasons and ranked them, i could see wade having maybe two in their collective top 5.

bootypants
07-21-2014, 07:09 PM
The question is.... have we already seen Prime Lebron?

If the answer is yes, i don't have them too far apart at all.

In fact, if the same D wade from 06-09 was playing with Lebron the last few years, i have no problem stating wade would be the teams MVP.

He averaged 30/7.5/5 in 2008-9 with 2.2stl and 1.5 blk at 49% from the field.

If he was in his Prime the last 4 years while Lebron was present, i have no question they go 4-0 in finals. No question the ball is in Wade's hands for most of the 4th, no question the city & locker room view lebron as the sidekick.

I live in Miami.

But he wasn't, he was already falling apart the day LeBron walked through that door.

As far as the Prime Kobe or Prime Wade. Depends on the offensive system you want to run to be honest. They both had killer instinct and fearless drive. Wade could iso resulting in baskets or setting teammates up. Kobe's iso was strictly to get buckets... but you also have to realize Kobe took 8-10 more shots easily than Wade.

Wade only averaged 22 FGA the year he averaged 30ppg.....

nastynice
07-21-2014, 07:14 PM
When they joined, lebron was widely considered the #1 player and wade the #3 player in the league. Its not THAT clear cut as everyone is making it out to be, I could see someone making an argument for wade being better at that time.

I think what people get hyped about is lebron is so much more athletically gifted than kobe and wade at that time, but both kobe and wade were both better skilled. I would still take lebron, but I don't think its as crazy as some are making it out to be to say that wade was better than james.

Its obvious no one's talking full career wise, wades sharp recent decline has everyone thinking how crappy he is now, but forgetting how good he WAS.

Minimal
07-21-2014, 07:19 PM
The question is.... have we already seen Prime Lebron?

If the answer is yes, i don't have them too far apart at all.

In fact, if the same D wade from 06-09 was playing with Lebron the last few years, i have no problem stating wade would be the teams MVP.

He averaged 30/7.5/5 in 2008-9 with 2.2stl and 1.5 blk at 49% from the field.

If he was in his Prime the last 4 years while Lebron was present, i have no question they go 4-0 in finals. No question the ball is in Wade's hands for most of the 4th, no question the city & locker room view lebron as the sidekick.

I live in Miami.

But he wasn't, he was already falling apart the day LeBron walked through that door.

As far as the Prime Kobe or Prime Wade. Depends on the offensive system you want to run to be honest. They both had killer instinct and fearless drive. Wade could iso resulting in baskets or setting teammates up. Kobe's iso was strictly to get buckets... but you also have to realize Kobe took 8-10 more shots easily than Wade.

Wade only averaged 22 FGA the year he averaged 30ppg.....
yeah and lets not forget wade had smaller fg% only once his rookie year with .465, than kobe's best all time .469. not only prime wade was better than prime kobe, im gonna go and say wade was a better player overall, injuries ****d his career up.

nastynice
07-21-2014, 07:27 PM
yeah and lets not forget wade had smaller fg% only once his rookie year with .465, than kobe's best all time .469. not only prime wade was better than prime kobe, im gonna go and say wade was a better player overall, injuries ****d his career up.

eeeease up off the mic, kid

IKnowHoops
07-21-2014, 07:27 PM
It's not that you're a hater, but if you honestly believe DWade > LeBron then you shouldn't be talking basketball..

No disrespect to anyone, but this.

IKnowHoops
07-21-2014, 07:47 PM
You criticize my post saying I'm using no facts and provide non in your rebuttal except cut ups... Is there a double standard here or am i missing something.

Also you still never answered my question... Why does no one know anything about basketball if they believe prime wade is better than Lebron?

No dodges please :)

Because its like saying Malone is better than Jordan. We all know Malone is very good, but we all know Mike is better. Some by a lot, some by a little, but everyone thinks he's better accept Malone huggers and Jordan haters. There are those. There are is no accumulation of stats that will say Wade is better than Bron.

I wouldn't say you know nothing about sports, I think anyone who thinks that probably has a bias against Bron.

dannyy08
07-21-2014, 07:48 PM
Just to add the video was 30 seconds and was to remind everyone of the type of leader Lebron WAS compared to Wade. Love to see someone find MJ or Bird doing that before a game. He wasn't a good leader dude and was afraid of the big moments. Wade would thrive in those situations Lebron just didn't... even late in his career Ray Ray saved his *** in clutch time.

Are you saying that if someone dances before a game they cannot be considered the best?

Because other greats didn't?

mightybosstone
07-21-2014, 07:51 PM
Skip Bayless is the epitome of so many of the things that are wrong with sports journalism today. The guy shouldn't even have a column or a talk show in any competently sized media market, much less air time on the largest, most significant sports television station on the planet.

dannyy08
07-21-2014, 07:51 PM
Anyone that says Wade is better than LBJ is crazy. Your haterness is clouding your vision and altering your common sense.

balla345
07-21-2014, 07:54 PM
wade prime >wade lebron. my sources... 2006 nba finals or the Olympics . Watch some of wades highlight from those years and you can see the spring wade had was incredible.

Tony_Starks
07-21-2014, 07:55 PM
When they joined, lebron was widely considered the #1 player and wade the #3 player in the league. Its not THAT clear cut as everyone is making it out to be, I could see someone making an argument for wade being better at that time.

I think what people get hyped about is lebron is so much more athletically gifted than kobe and wade at that time, but both kobe and wade were both better skilled. I would still take lebron, but I don't think its as crazy as some are making it out to be to say that wade was better than james.

Its obvious no one's talking full career wise, wades sharp recent decline has everyone thinking how crappy he is now, but forgetting how good he WAS.

Pretty much this. People get caught up in the moment and forget how good Wade was. Hell, he's still in the best SG conversation now on one leg.

There's a reason Lebron wanted to join him in the first place....

dannyy08
07-21-2014, 08:28 PM
Pretty much this. People get caught up in the moment and forget how good Wade was. Hell, he's still in the best SG conversation now on one leg.

There's a reason Lebron wanted to join him in the first place....

He was def good. But u can't be great for 3-4 seasons and make a claim that he is better than LBJ.

I'm not sure what convos your having but he is not in any that I have about best Shooting Guards. He hasn't played in at least 70 games in about 4 years. That in itself takes him out of any convos.

AJohnston1487
07-21-2014, 08:29 PM
The only thing I would point out is Wade had his best season before Lebron. It took Lebron to come to Miami with 2 other superstars before he really went off. How good will he be back in Cleveland without Wade and Bosh

JordansBulls
07-21-2014, 08:33 PM
Regular season no, playoffs and finals yes, overall probably equal depending the weight you put on the playoffs. Wade did lead a franchise that never won before to a title.

3ballbomber
07-21-2014, 08:41 PM
I remember we used to have this debate years ago. I'm quite tired of it but my argument maintains the same:

When you look at the physique of both players Lebron has the height & body to steam role his way through players and defenses.....yet, prior to the Big 3, Lebron never had a post game and also relied on too much flopping. How does a big monster, gorilla of a man not take advantage of his build & hulk physique - often see him flailing around the court w/ that sort of body. In Miami he was forced to, not by choice, to add a post game by circumstance since the Heat lacked anybody in the paint. If it wasn't for playing in Miami how would Lebrons game be today if he wasn't forced to add post game to his skill set, you gotta thank Miami Heat organization for that part of his game, since initially he was hesitant to do so already.......

.........Wade on the other hand is far smaller in height & slimmer in physique yet he has a very similar game to Lebron prior to the Big 3.......BUT he had very good post game for a guard, able to back players down in the paint proficiently. He is also considered one of the best blocking guards in NBA history - for his height that was a big part of his game. He doesn't have the body like Lebron but, much like Jordan, Wade has the agility, quickness, grace & pure will. If you look @ the 09 season when Wade was the Scoring Champion, in unarguable the best season of his career, had Miami more wins than Cleveland that year Wade would not only have been Scoring Champ but league MVP. some would also argue that Wade deserved the MVP over Lebron that season since if you take away Wade from that scrub team they would be, if not in the bottom of the league standings. THat roster Miami had that season had absolutely no business being in the playoffs. While Cavs minus Lebron would still have made the post season.

But it's not just about individual skill sets, being a great player also means qualities like being a great leader. Wade i thought was a far better leader than Lebron ever was. Wade was humble, didn't show boat and act up. He let his game speak for itself and his team followed suit. He never made his team mates his own personal cheerleaders like Lebron did w/ his entire cast. Wade was quite mature coming into the league, he approached the game with class & ethics. While Lebron was dancing around, singing on the court & taking fake pictures for post game routines & shenanigans, as people here have already pointed out. That to me is not a great leader & it does not display a good example for a guy who is the face of the franchise.

What Wade did with that team, the way he carried that very mediocre squad to the playoffs to me is indicative of a great player, one that in his prime was close to being the best player in the league. We know in the Redeem Team, coming off the bench no less, was hands down the best player in the team. Coaches & players stated publicly that he was the MVP of the Olympics and without him they wouldn't have won the gold. And that's coming off the bench!!! - that Olympics & NBA season after was his peak season......

I'm not even going to go indepth on how, in only Wade's 3rd season, he won his first title and finals mvp. Prior to that in only his 2nd season he lead his team to the 2nd round vs the top seeded Pacers, where Wade and Miami took them to 6 games - in only his 2nd season!!!

As great of a player Lebron James is you could argue that prime for prime, considering all of the above, Wade is the better player. Wade still has 1 ring more than Lebron, Lebron ran to Wade's team, Wade Sacrificed his entire game & leadership to accommodate Lebron. This in itself shows how great of a leader Wade is by deferring his game & leadership for the team. Wade shows time and time again how loyal he is - In a time when the league is filled with disloyalty, entitlement & selfishness. Vs the Mavs Wade would have been finals MVP had they won - that was the Lebron 4th quarter disappearance series, where he was heavily criticized. It seems Wade can win a title, nxt to other elites by sacrificing, but not the same can be said for Lebron. Everybody must always sacrifice for Lebron. Great players show good qualities the way Wade has over his career.......GIVE ME PRIME DWYANE WADE ANY DAY!!!

XpLiCiTT
07-21-2014, 08:50 PM
I didn't know Skip Bayless had this many accounts on here.

dannyy08
07-21-2014, 08:55 PM
Wade is past his prime. LBJ has about 3 more years before he starts to get passed his. So only time will tell but already at this point I will take LBJ over Wade in his prime.

I don't think he "ran" to Wades team and that Wade sacrificed. Rather I think Wade conceded to a player that was better than him. Wade did not win until Shaq came and then again when 2 All-Stars came...

ghettosean
07-21-2014, 09:08 PM
You criticize my post saying I'm using no facts and provide non in your rebuttal except cut ups... Is there a double standard here or am i missing something.

You're right I guess its because I am baffled to even be having this conversation.

Here are just a few facts for you since you request them if you really want to compare them a bit:
- LeBron is a 4x league MVP. Wade is a 0x league MVP
- LeBron was a 2x MVP BEFORE joining DWade in Miami. Together they won 2 championships, who was the finals MVP of both? LeBron.
- LeBron is a 8x NBA all first team player. Wade has made all NBA first team just 2x
- LeBron is a 5x NBA defensive all first team. Wade has never made first team defense.

Then if you want to go into statistics, LeBron is better in just about every single one. Even advanced stats such as PER or WS/48, LeBron is significantly better.


Just to add the video was 30 seconds and was to remind everyone of the type of leader Lebron WAS compared to Wade. Love to see someone find MJ or Bird doing that before a game. He wasn't a good leader dude and was afraid of the big moments. Wade would thrive in those situations Lebron just didn't... even late in his career Ray Ray saved his *** in clutch time.

LeBron wasn't a good leader because he joked with teammates? He carried an absolute awful Cavs team to the finals and gave them two 60+ win seasons along with two 50+ win seasons. How was he not a good leader? He was a GREAT leader. Oh wait you're one of those that disregards everything that happened and says "Ray Ray" saved him. Well if thats the case, where was your boy Wade????


To answer your question, you shouldn't be talking basketball if you think prime DWade is better than prime LeBron because there is NOTHING that supports that other than your opinion. Everything supports LeBron as the superior player.

You have YET to answer MY question. What are you basing your opinion off of? So far it seems your opinion is based off a YouTube video of LeBron having a sense of humor when he played for the Cavs. Got anything better than that?

Why do you keep talking about one youtube video i posted... lol... i mean honestly it was one video you act as if i said this is proof that Lebron is not talented... lol.

I refered to his leadership and mentality when it came to basketball so get over the video already i mean that was 3 lines in a long post and that's all you can talk about :rolleyes:

This has been a debate a million times on PSD before Lebron and Wade teamed up so I'm not exactly sure why you continue to think and say that anyone who does not think along your lines knows nothing about basketball. To me it shows ignorance.

As for your entire long winded post I'm glad you showed Lebrons career accomplishments but if you didn't notice this debate is about PRIME WADE VS PRIME LEBRON but thanks you again for mentioning his career accomplishments :facepalm: If you look back i said multiple times and even bolded that Lebron had a better career but I said I'd take a healthy D-Wade over lebron any day. Next time I'll increase the size so you don't miss it. Your post was a waste of time and full of cheap shots also to add you never compared stats just career accomplishments... Prime dude we are talking about prime.

Try harder next time.

ghettosean
07-21-2014, 09:10 PM
I didn't know Skip Bayless had this many accounts on here.

You must be a very respected poster... you just add so much insight to the thread :rolleyes:

dannyy08
07-21-2014, 09:25 PM
People keep sayn Prime Vs Prime. But I'm not sure Bron is done with his prime. This comparison needs to be shelved for 3-4 more years. LBJ has much more time playing at this high level.

WadeKobe
07-21-2014, 10:48 PM
Wade is my favorite player ever and this is simply nonsense.

There is no legitimate argument, based upon an educated understanding of basketball, for any year of Wade's prime ever being better than any year of Lebron's prime. Much less a 3-year, or 5-year stretch this is literally nonsense.

We are watching one of the three greatest wing players to ever play the game of basketball, and some people will stop at nothing to discredit him. Unfortunately they are only robbing themselves of the pleasure of enjoying what is happening.

WadeKobe
07-21-2014, 10:50 PM
Why do you keep talking about one youtube video i posted... lol... i mean honestly it was one video you act as if i said this is proof that Lebron is not talented... lol.

I refered to his leadership and mentality when it came to basketball so get over the video already i mean that was 3 lines in a long post and that's all you can talk about :rolleyes:

This has been a debate a million times on PSD before Lebron and Wade teamed up so I'm not exactly sure why you continue to think and say that anyone who does not think along your lines knows nothing about basketball. To me it shows ignorance.

As for your entire long winded post I'm glad you showed Lebrons career accomplishments but if you didn't notice this debate is about PRIME WADE VS PRIME LEBRON but thanks you again for mentioning his career accomplishments :facepalm: If you look back i said multiple times and even bolded that Lebron had a better career but I said I'd take a healthy D-Wade over lebron any day. Next time I'll increase the size so you don't miss it. Your post was a waste of time and full of cheap shots also to add you never compared stats just career accomplishments... Prime dude we are talking about prime.

Try harder next time.
You are,quite simply, wrong.

ghettosean
07-21-2014, 11:06 PM
You are,quite simply, wrong.

Proof???

WadeKobe
07-21-2014, 11:16 PM
Proof???

We can start with the amount of games each player averaged a year during their primes.
Or minutes per game.
Or points.
Or rebounds.
Or assists.
Or turnovers.

Or every single composite stat out there, per minute or cumulative.

PER
WS
WP
ASPM
RAPM
APM
ezPM
VORP
WARP

They all agree. Single year. Three year. Five year.

Or how about team wins and team success? Lebron had more of that too.

You can was lyrical all you want about mental toughness and leadership, but those two qualities are only valuable if they get results. Wade's mental toughness and leadership didn't get him any results Lebron's didn't get him.

They both never made it to the Finals in their prime without the other, and they both had players exceed career norms when playing alongside of them.

In the end, LeBron's results, team and individual both, were simply much better than Wade's in any 1, 3, or 5 year stretch throughout their primes. You simply cannot construct any argument otherwise.

85BearsDefense
07-21-2014, 11:17 PM
I've always thought this and have said this before... A healthy D-wade > Lebron

Why must everything be Lebron is the best and if not your automatically a hater???

You're kidding right. ****.

WadeKobe
07-21-2014, 11:19 PM
Wade is past his prime. LBJ has about 3 more years before he starts to get passed his. So only time will tell but already at this point I will take LBJ over Wade in his prime.

I don't think he "ran" to Wades team and that Wade sacrificed. Rather I think Wade conceded to a player that was better than him. Wade did not win until Shaq came and then again when 2 All-Stars came...

This is equally ridiculous

Two historically great players looked at history, looked at great players and great teams, looked at their own careers, and realized that every great team won with multiple great players on it. They realized they were tired of run I solo on mediocre to bad teams and losing to good teams and they decided to take the issue into their own hands, control their own destiny, and create their own championship caliber team.

It had nothin to do with either beig better or capable with or without the other.

bootypants
07-21-2014, 11:22 PM
I want to quickly point out....

Wade in his prime was unstoppable. He was always going to get his. No matter what. He was unguardable. He made circus shots, forced fouls, carried the team for full quarters.

Lebron, has been stopped. Stopped several times actually. We have all witnessed him cave. We have all seen him become irrelevant. Are you pretending that this has never happened? We have seen the great King James on lockdown and SHUTDOWN from having effect in a basketball game, SEVERAL times in playoff series.

WADE has never been SHUTDOWN in his prime EVER.

Wade was never shutdown until his legs became jello. Period. End of discussion.

To say Lebron is the greatest player on the planet and then watch the man be taken out of games several times over the past few years.... well.... i leave that to his mental state, because it surely is not physical.

And to anyone who would use the roster against this arguement... you are joking yourself.

Wades roster was surely worse... Kobe has had worse rosters in recent years, have not seen him shut down. AI has had TERRIBLE rosters, not shut down.

We have seen LeBron James completely become ghost, where as Wade's mental makeup would never allow such a thing to happen. LeBron to me becomes very intertwined emotionally with what is happing on the floor, even to this day where he is viewed mature now, the body language, the facial expressions, you can see what it isn't going, he mentally becomes a shell of himself.

* I love LeBron and his game and i consider his talent and ability top 5 when it will be all said and done but i am pointing out what i feel is fact. *

bucketss
07-21-2014, 11:26 PM
I want to quickly point out....

Wade in his prime was unstoppable. He was always going to get his. No matter what. He was unguardable. He made circus shots, forced fouls, carried the team for full quarters.

Lebron, has been stopped. Stopped several times actually. We have all witnessed him cave. We have all seen him become irrelevant. Are you pretending that this has never happened? We have seen the great King James on lockdown and SHUTDOWN from having effect in a basketball game, SEVERAL times in playoff series.

WADE has never been SHUTDOWN in his prime EVER.

Wade was never shutdown until his legs became jello. Period. End of discussion.

To say Lebron is the greatest player on the planet and then watch the man be taken out of games several times over the past few years.... well.... i leave that to his mental state, because it surely is not physical.

And to anyone who would use the roster against this arguement... you are joking yourself.

Wades roster was surely worse... Kobe has had worse rosters in recent years, have not seen him shut down. AI has had TERRIBLE rosters, not shut down.

We have seen LeBron James completely become ghost, where as Wade's mental makeup would never allow such a thing to happen. LeBron to me becomes very intertwined emotionally with what is happing on the floor, even to this day where he is viewed mature now, the body language, the facial expressions, you can see what it isn't going, he mentally becomes a shell of himself.

* I love LeBron and his game and i consider his talent and ability top 5 when it will be all said and done but i am pointing out what i feel is fact. *

are you sure about that, seen him getting locked down in 2011 by the bulls.

mightybosstone
07-21-2014, 11:26 PM
Proof???
Where do you want me to start? Lebron's basic and advanced numbers are superior in every single way. Wade had maybe two years in their entire careers where he was arguably better (03-04, 06-07), but the rest of their careers it wasn't remotely close. Wade was never the best player in the league at a given time, while Lebron has been the best player for the better part of a decade. Lebron has four MVPs (could have more) while Wade never finished higher in voting than third. Wade's best postseason (the highly praised 05-06 playoffs) does not come remotely close to Lebron's four best postseasons statistically.

And if advanced stats and MVPs don't work for you, I'll simplify things a bit to avoid any confusion. Let's break down who had the higher basic stats at their peaks and in terms of career numbers:
PPG: Lebron
APG/AST%: Lebron
RPG/TRB%: Lebron
SPG/STL%: Wade
TOPG/TO%: Lebron
FG%: Lebron
3P%: Lebron
FT%: Wade

So basically Lebron has superior statistical production, had a superior peak, posted better playoff numbers, won far more individual accolades and is on his way to crushing Wade in terms of longevity. In no way, shape or form can you justify to me that Dwyane Wade is a better basketball player than Lebron James is. In sports, much of the conversation is subjective. This is not one of those conversations. You're just wrong.

DoMeFavors
07-21-2014, 11:29 PM
What is wrong with what Skip said? Was Wade some scrub in his prime or something like you guys are saying?

mightybosstone
07-21-2014, 11:30 PM
Also, I think it's totally ridiculous that people still qualify Wade's decline based on "health." I'm sick of hearing, "once he gets healthy" or "if Wade gets healthy, then..." How unhealthy is Wade exactly? Is the guy terminal or something? Is he just constantly dealing with injuries that no other player in the NBA has to deal with? No. The bottom line is that THIS is as healthy as Wade is every likely to get. He wasn't underwhelming in the playoffs the last two years because he was unhealthy. He was underwhelming because that is the player he has become.

I loved watching Wade in his prime. He was a sight to see. But he is not that player now and he isn't likely to ever be that player again. People need to move on and accept Wade for who he is: a really good SG who is about 2-3 years past his prime.

Tony_Starks
07-21-2014, 11:32 PM
I want to quickly point out....

Wade in his prime was unstoppable. He was always going to get his. No matter what. He was unguardable. He made circus shots, forced fouls, carried the team for full quarters.

Lebron, has been stopped. Stopped several times actually. We have all witnessed him cave. We have all seen him become irrelevant. Are you pretending that this has never happened? We have seen the great King James on lockdown and SHUTDOWN from having effect in a basketball game, SEVERAL times in playoff series.

WADE has never been SHUTDOWN in his prime EVER.

Wade was never shutdown until his legs became jello. Period. End of discussion.

To say Lebron is the greatest player on the planet and then watch the man be taken out of games several times over the past few years.... well.... i leave that to his mental state, because it surely is not physical.

And to anyone who would use the roster against this arguement... you are joking yourself.

Wades roster was surely worse... Kobe has had worse rosters in recent years, have not seen him shut down. AI has had TERRIBLE rosters, not shut down.

We have seen LeBron James completely become ghost, where as Wade's mental makeup would never allow such a thing to happen. LeBron to me becomes very intertwined emotionally with what is happing on the floor, even to this day where he is viewed mature now, the body language, the facial expressions, you can see what it isn't going, he mentally becomes a shell of himself.

* I love LeBron and his game and i consider his talent and ability top 5 when it will be all said and done but i am pointing out what i feel is fact. *


I agree with you. Be prepared to stand accused of being uninformed, completely wrong, and possibly a hater....but I still agree with you.

mightybosstone
07-21-2014, 11:33 PM
What is wrong with what Skip said? Was Wade some scrub in his prime or something like you guys are saying?

No, but Lebron James' prime is simply on another level. Lebron's prime is something we've only seen maybe a handful of players (MJ, Wilt, maybe Kareem) ever achieve. Wade was a phenomenal basketball player and he may have been as good or better than Lebron at different points in their careers. But Wade was never as good at any point in his career as Lebron has been the last six years. It's just not close, and I don't know how anyone could justify otherwise.

hotdalton18
07-21-2014, 11:39 PM
Wade I'd better prime for prime

His 08 season and his 06 finals

But he had to many injuries

LeBron has been way more consistent and is the greater player

LeBron can pass Jordan

But like prime for prime there's not many better then dwade

ghettosean
07-21-2014, 11:42 PM
Proof???

We can start with the amount of games each player averaged a year during their primes.
Or minutes per game.
Or points.
Or rebounds.
Or assists.
Or turnovers.

Or every single composite stat out there, per minute or cumulative.

PER
WS
WP
ASPM
RAPM
APM
ezPM
VORP
WARP

They all agree. Single year. Three year. Five year.

Or how about team wins and team success? Lebron had more of that too.

You can was lyrical all you want about mental toughness and leadership, but those two qualities are only valuable if they get results. Wade's mental toughness and leadership didn't get him any results Lebron's didn't get him.

They both never made it to the Finals in their prime without the other, and they both had players exceed career norms when playing alongside of them.

In the end, LeBron's results, team and individual both, were simply much better than Wade's in any 1, 3, or 5 year stretch throughout their primes. You simply cannot construct any argument otherwise.

Pretty sure it got him a championship and finals MVP in a series he was supposed to lose to Dallas but that's just me i guess... lol

DoMeFavors
07-21-2014, 11:43 PM
No, but Lebron James' prime is simply on another level. Lebron's prime is something we've only seen maybe a handful of players (MJ, Wilt, maybe Kareem) ever achieve. Wade was a phenomenal basketball player and he may have been as good or better than Lebron at different points in their careers. But Wade was never as good at any point in his career as Lebron has been the last six years. It's just not close, and I don't know how anyone could justify otherwise.

Because Lebron is currently in basketball people love to overhype him, saying he compares to MJ and all these players. But in reality he is below that. He isnt those guys, he doesnt have the ability to really get the ball and take over a game scoring. Well he has the ability maybe but he doesnt show it often. LeBron is not comparable to MJ or Magic Johnson. Those guys are on another level. But because he is the best player currently people like to shove that down our throats and get people to watch.
Notice how the actual PLAYERS from past times say LeBron isnt anything like MJ,Magic,Bird but the ESPN guys love to say he is?
LeBron is the best player in the NBA right now but he isnt on the level of the HOF's in 80s. Just isnt.
If Bird,Magic,MJ were on these last 4 heat teams I am going to say they win all 4 in Lebrons place.

DoMeFavors
07-21-2014, 11:44 PM
Wade I'd better prime for prime

His 08 season and his 06 finals

But he had to many injuries

LeBron has been way more consistent and is the greater player

LeBron can pass Jordan
But like prime for prime there's not many better then dwade

no he cant

mightybosstone
07-21-2014, 11:44 PM
I want to quickly point out....

Wade in his prime was unstoppable. He was always going to get his. No matter what. He was unguardable. He made circus shots, forced fouls, carried the team for full quarters.

Lebron, has been stopped. Stopped several times actually. We have all witnessed him cave. We have all seen him become irrelevant. Are you pretending that this has never happened? We have seen the great King James on lockdown and SHUTDOWN from having effect in a basketball game, SEVERAL times in playoff series.

WADE has never been SHUTDOWN in his prime EVER.

Wade was never shutdown until his legs became jello. Period. End of discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

Go look at the stats from the first round of the '07 playoffs in which Wade was absolutely abysmal. Then go look at the number of titles Wade had before Lebron came to town and tell me how the guy "was never stopped" when he had only a single title to his name. Then compare their playoff stats throughout their careers and explain to me how Lebron's numbers can be substantially better, yet Wade was the superior postseason performer.

These are baseless claims that you're making and you have literally zero evidence to back them up. If you're going to make bold statements like this, at least back it up with SOMETHING other than vague generalizations. That's some pretty weak sauce.


To say Lebron is the greatest player on the planet and then watch the man be taken out of games several times over the past few years.... well.... i leave that to his mental state, because it surely is not physical.

And to anyone who would use the roster against this arguement... you are joking yourself.

Wades roster was surely worse... Kobe has had worse rosters in recent years, have not seen him shut down. AI has had TERRIBLE rosters, not shut down.
Wade played with a Shaq at the tail end of his prime. Lebron's best No. 2 was Mo freaking Williams. It's not comparable. Also, I have a seriously hard time understanding your definition of "shut down." I've always understood "shut down" as meaning to stop somebody. But if you don't win the NBA Finals, didn't somebody "shut you down?" And if you don't make every single basket you take, didn't defenders "shut you down" in those individual possessions?

You're just using vague phrases and buzz words to justify your argument. Let's see you back that up with some numbers.


We have seen LeBron James completely become ghost, where as Wade's mental makeup would never allow such a thing to happen. LeBron to me becomes very intertwined emotionally with what is happing on the floor, even to this day where he is viewed mature now, the body language, the facial expressions, you can see what it isn't going, he mentally becomes a shell of himself.
Again... Look at Wade's 07 postseason series against Chicago. Yeah, the guy was dealing with some injury issues. But the guy's numbers were absolutely atrocious. You can't tell me that the guy was "never stopped" and then completely gloss over the fact that he failed multiple times in the playoffs and dealt with a ton of injury issues in his career. He was most certainly stopped. All superstars are stopped. Michael Jordan was stopped in his prime prior to that first title. It happens to everybody, and to say otherwise is completely naive.

jerellh528
07-21-2014, 11:45 PM
Maybe wades peak is better, but not his prime. It's especially impressive for him being 4 inches and 30 lbs less than james.

dannyy08
07-21-2014, 11:48 PM
This is equally ridiculous

Two historically great players looked at history, looked at great players and great teams, looked at their own careers, and realized that every great team won with multiple great players on it. They realized they were tired of run I solo on mediocre to bad teams and losing to good teams and they decided to take the issue into their own hands, control their own destiny, and create their own championship caliber team.

It had nothin to do with either beig better or capable with or without the other.

I never said it was about them being capable with or without the other. Before u say something is ridiculous understand what u are calling out.

bucketss
07-21-2014, 11:50 PM
Because Lebron is currently in basketball people love to overhype him, saying he compares to MJ and all these players. But in reality he is below that. He isnt those guys, he doesnt have the ability to really get the ball and take over a game scoring. Well he has the ability maybe but he doesnt show it often. LeBron is not comparable to MJ or Magic Johnson. Those guys are on another level. But because he is the best player currently people like to shove that down our throats and get people to watch.
Notice how the actual PLAYERS from past times say LeBron isnt anything like MJ,Magic,Bird but the ESPN guys love to say he is?
LeBron is the best player in the NBA right now but he isnt on the level of the HOF's in 80s. Just isnt.
If Bird,Magic,MJ were on these last 4 heat teams I am going to say they win all 4 in Lebrons place.

you mention magic like hes known for taking over games scoring?

mightybosstone
07-21-2014, 11:52 PM
Because Lebron is currently in basketball people love to overhype him, saying he compares to MJ and all these players. But in reality he is below that. He isnt those guys, he doesnt have the ability to really get the ball and take over a game scoring. Well he has the ability maybe but he doesnt show it often.
Is that why Lebron is 3rd in career PPG and 5th in career postseason PPG? That certainly doesn't strike me as a guy who "doesn't show" his ability to take over games from a scoring perspective.


LeBron is not comparable to MJ or Magic Johnson. Those guys are on another level.
Wut? You just got done telling me that Lebron isn't on the same level as "those guys" because of his inability to take over games scoring and then you put Magic in a tier ahead of him despite Magic not even averaging 20 PPG in his career? How does that make sense? Quit using one justification to knock Lebron and then totally ignore that same criteria for another player. That's pretty ridiculous.


But because he is the best player currently people like to shove that down our throats and get people to watch. Notice how the actual PLAYERS from past times say LeBron isnt anything like MJ,Magic,Bird but the ESPN guys love to say he is?
Examples of players saying this? Also, I've seen players from the past say he has the potential to be the greatest ever. Just like fans, even players differ in their opinions. Some guys prefer older era of basketball players and want to believe their era of basketball was the greatest. Others recognize Lebron and the current era of players for the talent they possess.


LeBron is the best player in the NBA right now but he isnt on the level of the HOF's in 80s. Just isnt.
If Bird,Magic,MJ were on these last 4 heat teams I am going to say they win all 4 in Lebrons place.
I want to see you justify this argument. Don't just say "Magic and Bird are better." Give me something else. Give me some critieria. Give me some numbers. How are they better? How are you backing up this argument? I can make any statement I want to, but that doesn't make it right or even remotely educated. If you're going to argue sports, at least be able to present something behind opinion to prove your point. At this point, your argument has accomplished absolutely nothing.

ghettosean
07-21-2014, 11:55 PM
Proof???
Where do you want me to start? Lebron's basic and advanced numbers are superior in every single way. Wade had maybe two years in their entire careers where he was arguably better (03-04, 06-07), but the rest of their careers it wasn't remotely close. Wade was never the best player in the league at a given time, while Lebron has been the best player for the better part of a decade. Lebron has four MVPs (could have more) while Wade never finished higher in voting than third. Wade's best postseason (the highly praised 05-06 playoffs) does not come remotely close to Lebron's four best postseasons statistically.

And if advanced stats and MVPs don't work for you, I'll simplify things a bit to avoid any confusion. Let's break down who had the higher basic stats at their peaks and in terms of career numbers:
PPG: Lebron
APG/AST%: Lebron
RPG/TRB%: Lebron
SPG/STL%: Wade
TOPG/TO%: Lebron
FG%: Lebron
3P%: Lebron
FT%: Wade

So basically Lebron has superior statistical production, had a superior peak, posted better playoff numbers, won far more individual accolades and is on his way to crushing Wade in terms of longevity. In no way, shape or form can you justify to me that Dwyane Wade is a better basketball player than Lebron James is. In sports, much of the conversation is subjective. This is not one of those conversations. You're just wrong.

Why is no one posting actual numbers just Lebron is better here and Lebron is better there... lol

Also I'd add the 08-09 season to your bolded statement because Wade was completely ROBBED that year for MVP he clearly took a team of scrubs... not even scrubs --> bums who all rode his butt to the post season. His 2nd best player was a broken down Jermaine Oneal. Wade definitely did more with much much less that year than bron.

I'm sure advanced stats will tell it another way though and Lebron won MVP that year so LBJ was clearly better and on another level :facepalm:

bootypants
07-21-2014, 11:56 PM
are you sure about that, seen him getting locked down in 2011 by the bulls.

That isn't Wades prime.

And that is in the shadow of Lebrons arrival after he took the backseat.

But lets look at the series anyway.

Game 1: 18/3/3 and 3 steals.
Game 2: 24/9/2 and 1 steals - 2 blocks
Game 3: 17/9/3
Game 4: 14/5/1 and 2 steals - 4 blocks
Game 5: 21/6/2 and 2 steals

at 40% from the field. He had more blocks than Bosh in the series and only 6 less rebounds than Bosh.

Statistically you would hope the numbers were better yes, but as a sidekick that year and year 1 of jello legs. What can you wish for.

ABOMB_56
07-21-2014, 11:59 PM
Prime Wade got knocked out in the first round the proceeding three times he made the playoffs after winning the NBA championship in 05-06. His teams were 4-12 in those three years in the playoffs and posted a .544 winning percentage in the regular season. For someone who, at their peak, is equal to Lebron James, those numbers seem quite damning, no?

By comparison, the Lebron James led Cavs never got bounced in the first round once when they made the playoffs and never had lower than the Heat's .544 winning percentage after LBJ's second year in the league.

DoMeFavors
07-22-2014, 12:00 AM
Is that why Lebron is 3rd in career PPG and 5th in career postseason PPG? That certainly doesn't strike me as a guy who "doesn't show" his ability to take over games from a scoring perspective.


Wut? You just got done telling me that Lebron isn't on the same level as "those guys" because of his inability to take over games scoring and then you put Magic in a tier ahead of him despite Magic not even averaging 20 PPG in his career? How does that make sense? Quit using one justification to knock Lebron and then totally ignore that same criteria for another player. That's pretty ridiculous.


Examples of players saying this? Also, I've seen players from the past say he has the potential to be the greatest ever. Just like fans, even players differ in their opinions. Some guys prefer older era of basketball players and want to believe their era of basketball was the greatest. Others recognize Lebron and the current era of players for the talent they possess.


I want to see you justify this argument. Don't just say "Magic and Bird are better." Give me something else. Give me some critieria. Give me some numbers. How are they better? How are you backing up this argument? I can make any statement I want to, but that doesn't make it right or even remotely educated. If you're going to argue sports, at least be able to present something behind opinion to prove your point. At this point, your argument has accomplished absolutely nothing.

come on now, numbers or stats dont do how good Jordan and Magic were justice. If you saw them play and know just how historic their careers are you would know exactly what I mean. So are you saying once Lebron is gone he will get the treatment MJ gets today? MJ's legacy is crazy because it hasnt dropped one bit, he still gets the respect he earned.

dannyy08
07-22-2014, 12:00 AM
Maybe wades peak is better, but not his prime. It's especially impressive for him being 4 inches and 30 lbs less than james.

Nothing about Wade's game is better than LBJ: peak, prime, or career.

bucketss
07-22-2014, 12:02 AM
That isn't Wades prime.

And that is in the shadow of Lebrons arrival after he took the backseat.

But lets look at the series anyway.

Game 1: 18/3/3 and 3 steals.
Game 2: 24/9/2 and 1 steals - 2 blocks
Game 3: 17/9/3
Game 4: 14/5/1 and 2 steals - 4 blocks
Game 5: 21/6/2 and 2 steals

at 40% from the field. He had more blocks than Bosh in the series and only 6 less rebounds than Bosh.

Statistically you would hope the numbers were better yes, but as a sidekick that year and year 1 of jello legs. What can you wish for.

he was getting shut down offensively though, and thats what you meant right? you should look at his shooting %% as well. wade even admits he was horrid that series.

dannyy08
07-22-2014, 12:04 AM
Why is no one posting actual numbers just Lebron is better here and Lebron is better there... lol

Am I not allowed to post an opinion or do all posts have to be backed with data and be long winded?

bucketss
07-22-2014, 12:07 AM
come on now, numbers or stats dont do how good Jordan and Magic were justice. If you saw them play and know just how historic their careers are you would know exactly what I mean. So are you saying once Lebron is gone he will get the treatment MJ gets today? MJ's legacy is crazy because it hasnt dropped one bit, he still gets the respect he earned.

lol you didn't even challenge or comment on a thing he said.

ABOMB_56
07-22-2014, 12:08 AM
Also, this whole narrative that Lebron gets "shut down" in the playoffs and thus Wade has had more of an impact than LBJ is wrong.

Lebron bests Wade in WS/48, OWS, DWS, WS, ORtg, DRtg, AST%, TRB%, eFG%, TS%, PER so yeah...

ghettosean
07-22-2014, 12:10 AM
Why is no one posting actual numbers just Lebron is better here and Lebron is better there... lol

Am I not allowed to post an opinion or do all posts have to be backed with data and be long winded?

People are posting

Ppg Lebron
Rebounds Lebron

Etc...

I was not referring to you... You mad bro?

DoMeFavors
07-22-2014, 12:11 AM
lol you didn't even challenge or comment on a thing he said.

because im not going to get deep into this, if I challenge or comment I know the response I will get back. Magic and MJ are on a different planet than LeBron. Put it like this, the aliens that we all know exist are smarter than us and have better technology. But people on earth are going to keep that a secret and try to tell you their stuff is the greatest. The NBA is earth with Lebron.

FlashBolt
07-22-2014, 12:11 AM
Skip is Wade's biggest nuthugger in the world. He's also LeBron's biggest critic. Anyone who takes this for a grain of salt is kidding themselves. Is Wade's prime better than what Durant just posted? NO! And LeBron posted near or just as good as Durant did last year so to say Wade's prime was better than LeBron is just a joke. Let me guess.. Wade's peak wasn't as good as Kobe's peak but somehow Wade's peak is greater than LeBron's? Lol. There is no need to post any of LeBron's numbers.. This won't go well for Wade. He was one of my favorite players and the best player in 2008-2009 but to say his prime was better than LeBron? What a joke! What record did peak Wade lead his team? 43 wins? He couldn't get past the first round against the Hawks? This was the same Hawks team that got SWEPT by Cleveland that same year. Again, let's not embarrass ourselves and post facts.. It doesn't sit well with Wade. For that matter, comparing LeBron's numbers with anyone outside of top 10 players is just disturbing.

bootypants
07-22-2014, 12:16 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

Go look at the stats from the first round of the '07 playoffs in which Wade was absolutely abysmal. Then go look at the number of titles Wade had before Lebron came to town and tell me how the guy "was never stopped" when he had only a single title to his name. Then compare their playoff stats throughout their careers and explain to me how Lebron's numbers can be substantially better, yet Wade was the superior postseason performer.

These are baseless claims that you're making and you have literally zero evidence to back them up. If you're going to make bold statements like this, at least back it up with SOMETHING other than vague generalizations. That's some pretty weak sauce.


Wade played with a Shaq at the tail end of his prime. Lebron's best No. 2 was Mo freaking Williams. It's not comparable. Also, I have a seriously hard time understanding your definition of "shut down." I've always understood "shut down" as meaning to stop somebody. But if you don't win the NBA Finals, didn't somebody "shut you down?" And if you don't make every single basket you take, didn't defenders "shut you down" in those individual possessions?

You're just using vague phrases and buzz words to justify your argument. Let's see you back that up with some numbers.


Again... Look at Wade's 07 postseason series against Chicago. Yeah, the guy was dealing with some injury issues. But the guy's numbers were absolutely atrocious. You can't tell me that the guy was "never stopped" and then completely gloss over the fact that he failed multiple times in the playoffs and dealt with a ton of injury issues in his career. He was most certainly stopped. All superstars are stopped. Michael Jordan was stopped in his prime prior to that first title. It happens to everybody, and to say otherwise is completely naive.

He averaged 24/5/6 in that playoff series at 43% FG.

In game 1 he played just 33 minutes. Yes because of injury. It was not until game 4 where he played a normal load of a superstar in the NBA. The whole month prior to the NBA Playoffs he had not played one game passing the 40min mark and had several in only the 20 min area. So yes, his injuries were real.

"Wade dislocated his left shoulder in February, missing the entire month of March and some. Despite having also incurred a torn labrum, Wade opted to pursue rehabilitation rather than season-ending surgery."

Ok so how many players actually play through a dislocated shoulder as well as a torn labrum in which would end the season for 9/10 players told of these issues?

And we are going to pull this series out to discredit the man? No, he was not shutdown by opposing players, he was crippled.

mightybosstone
07-22-2014, 12:21 AM
Why is no one posting actual numbers just Lebron is better here and Lebron is better there... lol

Also I'd add the 08-09 season to your bolded statement because Wade was completely ROBBED that year for MVP he clearly took a team of scrubs... not even scrubs --> bums who all rode his butt to the post season. His 2nd best player was a broken down Jermaine Oneal. Wade definitely did more with much much less that year than bron.

I'm sure advanced stats will tell it another way though and Lebron won MVP that year so LBJ was clearly better and on another level :facepalm:
I don't need advanced stats to disprove that season. Look at these basic stats objectively and tell me who had the better season:

Player A: 28/8/7/2/1 on .489/.344/.780 shooting percentages. Went off for 35/9/7/2/1 in the playoffs on .510/.333/.749 shooting percentages. All-NBA 1st team. All-Defensive 1st team. Won MVP. Eliminated in the conference finals.
Player B: 30/8/5/2/1 on .491/.317/.765 shooting percentages. 29/5/5/2/1 in the playoffs on .439/.360/.862 shooting percentages. All-NBA 1st team. All-Defensive 2nd team. 3rd in MVP voting. Eliminated in the second round.

Looks like Player A to me. And I don't want to hear about how Wade took a poor supporting cast to the playoffs. Lebron did that his entire career in Cleveland and went a hell of a lot further than the first round.

bootypants
07-22-2014, 12:22 AM
Also, this whole narrative that Lebron gets "shut down" in the playoffs and thus Wade has had more of an impact than LBJ is wrong.

Lebron bests Wade in WS/48, OWS, DWS, WS, ORtg, DRtg, AST%, TRB%, eFG%, TS%, PER so yeah...

You are taking that wrong. Being forced out of a game is not about stats, the player can still rack up a box score yet have no detrimental impact on the game. Have you not watched LeBron in playoff series throughout the last decade? Are you going to sit here and tell me you have never seen a game where you literally felt as if he was not even on the floor, yet he was, in his headband and all. Moping around. Please, save yourself the headache and remember the playoff series and the millions of people on social media asking "where was lebron?" during multiple series and playoff runs in years. LeBron could have had 24 pts in the first half and then went ghost mode in the second...... he was taken out of games, and half the time he did it to himself with his weak state of mind.

FlashBolt
07-22-2014, 12:23 AM
come on now, numbers or stats dont do how good Jordan and Magic were justice. If you saw them play and know just how historic their careers are you would know exactly what I mean. So are you saying once Lebron is gone he will get the treatment MJ gets today? MJ's legacy is crazy because it hasnt dropped one bit, he still gets the respect he earned.

1) MJ's legacy is crazy because let's be honest, how many 18 year old's out there really saw MJ? Even if you were 35 and saw MJ in his prime, your memory is obviously affected by nostalgic moments. A lot of things went right that made MJ - including the management of NBA and the owner of Nike both needing that one guy to take them above every company.

2) If you saw them play? Is that your only proof? I would hate to see you in court.. "But judge, you'd have to see them play to understand!" The reason Magic was historic was because of Bird vs Magic. Back then, basketball was still a young sport with not much interest. Magic vs Bird was NBA's first attempt to get NBA into the right track. When it wasn't enough, Jordan happened to came along. Why do you think Jordan was pushed down everyone's face? Because NBA made money when Jordan was untouchable.

3) There's a simple saying that we as people don't enjoy things until it's gone. You'll see it when Kobe retires. You'll see it when LeBron retires. And you'll see it when Durant retires. 40 years down the road, some guy out there who is 60 years old will tell you the story of him seeing LeBron's story and they'll appreciate it.

4) Numbers or stats say LeBron destroys everyone and is close with only Jordan. Realistically, that is a fact. Check the stats.. No one comes close to James. Him and Jordan's numbers are nearly identical. Also, you mention countless times of Magic being this and that.. Magic played a PG position and was up against smaller guards. He wasn't a good defender and he certainly wasn't a scorer. He could score but he wasn't as potent on the offensive end. We're talking about a 260+ lb 6"8 bodied like a center with the agility of a PG. So how about instead of using the "You would have to see Magic play" garbage of an excuse so you can escape the argument, you actually provide an argument.

bootypants
07-22-2014, 12:23 AM
he was getting shut down offensively though, and thats what you meant right? you should look at his shooting %% as well. wade even admits he was horrid that series.

Again, this was after the arrival of LeBron and the failing legs began. Not his prime years.

ABOMB_56
07-22-2014, 12:28 AM
People are posting

Ppg Lebron
Rebounds Lebron

Etc...

I was not referring to you... You mad bro?

You want numbers, here are some playoff numbers (2005-2010 so James on the Cavs and Wade on the Heat)

WS/48: .233 vs .151-James Wins
WS: 14.7 vs 6.8-James Wins
DWS: 5.4 vs 2.8-James Wins
OWS: 9.3 vs 4.0-James Wins
Lebron posted a higher ORTG and DRTG in 3/4 of the postseasons that they were both in.
Average PER: 27.48 vs 24.45-James Wins

Keep in mind that this is an early 20's Lebron (ages 21-25) and he still bests Wade in all of these categories. If we want to talk primes, we would be talking about Lebron on the Heat and well, his numbers would further blow Wade's out of the water.

Well, now you have some actual numbers :)

bootypants
07-22-2014, 12:28 AM
For the first time i find myself on the opposite side of a LeBron discussion.

I think it is more that i am upset by how much the people have forgotten of Wades greatness in the few years he was healthy. The good will always be forgotten, the bad will forever be stamped in their minds.

Most will remember Wade as the robin to Lebrons batman, the crippling legs, the disappearance in the most recent finals.

But for us who live in Florida, we all know this is Wade County.

For the love of sports feed the man some PED's and let it shine one more season.

dannyy08
07-22-2014, 12:30 AM
People are posting

Ppg Lebron
Rebounds Lebron

Etc...

I was not referring to you... You mad bro?


The only times I get mad is when I take a girl to the beach and she has busted feet.

bucketss
07-22-2014, 12:31 AM
Again, this was after the arrival of LeBron and the failing legs began. Not his prime years.

he was considered a top 3 player at the beginning of the very next season, by espn.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7116899/nba-player-rankings-3


imo sometime in the 2012 season was when he started declining.

FlashBolt
07-22-2014, 12:31 AM
For the first time i find myself on the opposite side of a LeBron discussion.

I think it is more that i am upset by how much the people have forgotten of Wades greatness in the few years he was healthy. The good will always be forgotten, the bad will forever be stamped in their minds.

Most will remember Wade is the robin to Lebrons batman, the crippling legs, the disappearance in the most recent finals.

But for us who live in Florida, we all know this is Wade County.

For the love of sports feed the man some PED's and let it shine one more season.

No one is forgetting about Wade's greatness. He was the best SG for quite some years at his best and was IMO, the MVP in 2008-2009. But do you even understand that question being asked? Do you think Wade's 2008-2009 season was better than James 2012 and 2013 seasons? You'd need some crazy amount of crazy in you to declare something like that. I think some people FORGET how good James was and still is..

DoMeFavors
07-22-2014, 12:33 AM
1) MJ's legacy is crazy because let's be honest, how many 18 year old's out there really saw MJ? Even if you were 35 and saw MJ in his prime, your memory is obviously affected by nostalgic moments. A lot of things went right that made MJ - including the management of NBA and the owner of Nike both needing that one guy to take them above every company.

2) If you saw them play? Is that your only proof? I would hate to see you in court.. "But judge, you'd have to see them play to understand!" The reason Magic was historic was because of Bird vs Magic. Back then, basketball was still a young sport with not much interest. Magic vs Bird was NBA's first attempt to get NBA into the right track. When it wasn't enough, Jordan happened to came along. Why do you think Jordan was pushed down everyone's face? Because NBA made money when Jordan was untouchable.

3) There's a simple saying that we as people don't enjoy things until it's gone. You'll see it when Kobe retires. You'll see it when LeBron retires. And you'll see it when Durant retires. 40 years down the road, some guy out there who is 60 years old will tell you the story of him seeing LeBron's story and they'll appreciate it.

4) Numbers or stats say LeBron destroys everyone and is close with only Jordan. Realistically, that is a fact. Check the stats.. No one comes close to James. Him and Jordan's numbers are nearly identical. Also, you mention countless times of Magic being this and that.. Magic played a PG position and was up against smaller guards. He wasn't a good defender and he certainly wasn't a scorer. He could score but he wasn't as potent on the offensive end. We're talking about a 260+ lb 6"8 bodied like a center with the agility of a PG. So how about instead of using the "You would have to see Magic play" garbage of an excuse so you can escape the argument, you actually provide an argument.

Y'all love your stats and can play that card all night
But winning speaks for itself...6 championships.

ghettosean
07-22-2014, 12:34 AM
The only times I get mad is when I take a girl to the beach and she has busted feet.

Lol

dannyy08
07-22-2014, 12:37 AM
...Wades greatness in the few years he was healthy..

"The few years he was healthy"

FlashBolt
07-22-2014, 12:41 AM
Y'all love your stats and can play that card all night
But winning speaks for itself...6 championships.

And this is why you have such bad credibility here.

Robert Horry.. The 7th best player in NBA history. -DoMeFavors

bootypants
07-22-2014, 12:44 AM
"The few years he was healthy"

Are you going to take away from T-Mac's dominance because he was unhealthy? or just wade?

ABOMB_56
07-22-2014, 12:48 AM
Y'all love your stats and can play that card all night
But winning speaks for itself...6 championships.

If winning speaks for itself, why is Bill Russel, the greatest winner in NBA history, ranked outside the top 10 on the PSD poll for best players in NBA history? Winning is great, but you have to look at as a team accomplishment, not an individual accomplishment

FlashBolt
07-22-2014, 12:49 AM
Are you going to take away from T-Mac's dominance because he was unhealthy? or just wade?

I'm not going to reward a player for having 4-5 great years compared to someone who has had a history of great years and is still having those years... Not his fault he's injured or anything but it is what it is. You're discrediting players for having a record of great years in spite of those who only managed to have 4-5 of them in a decade+ career.

bootypants
07-22-2014, 12:50 AM
The topic is about a player in their "Prime".... regardless if their prime is 1 year or 10 years.

DoMeFavors
07-22-2014, 12:50 AM
And this is why you have such bad credibility here.

Robert Horry.. The 7th best player in NBA history. -DoMeFavors

Yep Robert Horry led his teams to those championships, that is def what I am saying.
Lakers,Spurs,Rockets all won because of Robert Horry, Horry had the same impact as Michael Jordan on all those teams. Totally!!!

bootypants
07-22-2014, 12:55 AM
As my first post stated i do not select wade as the winner here, i just don't think it is as far off as some have stated... Yet we are unclear if we have seen the best of LeBron or not. So lets just grab some popcorn and watch.

DoMeFavors
07-22-2014, 12:56 AM
If winning speaks for itself, why is Bill Russel, the greatest winner in NBA history, ranked outside the top 10 on the PSD poll for best players in NBA history? Winning is great, but you have to look at as a team accomplishment, not an individual accomplishment

Cause Bill Russel beat who? Who did Bill Russel beat?

Because Jordan beat Clyde Drexler,Terry Porter, Patrick Ewing, Wilkins,Barkley, Thomas, Stockton,Malone, Payton,Kemp...

While Russel played with Havlicek,KC Jones,Satch Sanders and took down Jerry West solo

FlashBolt
07-22-2014, 12:58 AM
Yep Robert Horry led his teams to those championships, that is def what I am saying.
Lakers,Spurs,Rockets all won because of Robert Horry, Horry had the same impact as Michael Jordan on all those teams. Totally!!!

Thank you. I knew you were going to say this. You know what this proves? That rings are a product of team success. Jordan won how many without Pippen? Magic won how many without KAJ? Oh right.. 0 and 0. How many rings do you think Jordan without Pippen and/or Rodman would have won against Utah, Lakers, Seattle, Trailblazers, and Phoenix?

FlashBolt
07-22-2014, 01:00 AM
Cause Bill Russel beat who? Who did Bill Russel beat?

Because Jordan beat Clyde Drexler,Terry Porter, Patrick Ewing, Wilkins,Barkley, Thomas, Stockton,Malone, Payton,Kemp...

While Russel played with Havlicek,KC Jones,Satch Sanders and took down Jerry West solo

And Jordan had the greatest rebounder and the greatest wing defender (mind you he was also 3rd in MVP voting in his prime), and arguably the greatest coach. Thanks for further concluding the rather obvious that NBA titles is an AWARD given to the BEST NBA TEAM.

DoMeFavors
07-22-2014, 01:09 AM
And Jordan had the greatest rebounder and the greatest wing defender (mind you he was also 3rd in MVP voting in his prime), and arguably the greatest coach. Thanks for further concluding the rather obvious that NBA titles is an AWARD given to the BEST NBA TEAM.

There you go overating everything to make your point, Michael Jordan took down some of the best teams ever and best players ever. Look at the players he beat. Its all about winning the players with the most championships in any sport are the ones who get the respect and legacy. One thing about the NBA it isnt like baseball where it is team or football. The teams with the best player usually wins because of his ability to control the game and take over. LeBron hasnt been able to do that. History shows it.

ABOMB_56
07-22-2014, 01:17 AM
There you go overating everything to make your point, Michael Jordan took down some of the best teams ever and best players ever. Look at the players he beat. Its all about winning the players with the most championships in any sport are the ones who get the respect and legacy. One thing about the NBA it isnt like baseball where it is team or football. The teams with the best player usually wins because of his ability to control the game and take over. LeBron hasnt been able to do that. History shows it.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Jordan won ZERO rings before Pippen's arrival, right? Or am I just imagining things

FlashBolt
07-22-2014, 01:17 AM
There you go overating everything to make your point, Michael Jordan took down some of the best teams ever and best players ever. Look at the players he beat. Its all about winning the players with the most championships in any sport are the ones who get the respect and legacy. One thing about the NBA it isnt like baseball where it is team or football. The teams with the best player usually wins because of his ability to control the game and take over. LeBron hasnt been able to do that. History shows it.

Hasn't been able to do that...? You do realize he has two rings, right? This year, he was the best player and look what happened. Lack of teammate support against a team that had an army out there. Was Tim Duncan or Leonard the best NBA player? I dare you not. Oh yeah, KD was this year's best player and where did he end up? How come MJ is 1-10 in the playoffs without Scottie Pippen? How come Jordan never made it out the first round in 6 years? And you just contradicted yourself.. You just said Bill Russell never beat anyone yet he has eleven rings.. but no one will dare argue Bill was a better player than Wilt.. Wilt was the best player at that time and yet Bill won. Why? Can you answer that, PLEASE! And instead of using your junky "You'd have to watch the game to understand.", because we all know your credibility is destroyed when you still think Deron Williams is one of the best in the game..., how the hell did the Detroit Pistons beat the Lakers in 2004? Wasn't Shaq the best player? Or are we imaging things again... I don't normally add people to ignore list just because it shows I'm letting people affect me but I guess it's only right since about half of PSD users have you on ignore.

FlashBolt
07-22-2014, 01:23 AM
Back to the real question, if Wade was so good, how come he's not ranked very highly on the All Time list? Yet, everyone out here claims he was better than James at his prime.. Surely he should receive some votes if that were true, right?

dannyy08
07-22-2014, 01:29 AM
Are you going to take away from T-Mac's dominance because he was unhealthy? or just wade?

Definitely not. But I am also not going to compare him to greats that have been healthy. Different categories.

T-Mac
Wade
Penny
D. Rose (so far)

Those players cannot be compared to
LBJ
Kobe
MJ
Magic

Ect.

effen5
07-22-2014, 01:30 AM
Who cares seriously....people who create threads which involve Skip or Chris Broussard should be banned.

DoMeFavors
07-22-2014, 01:34 AM
Hasn't been able to do that...? You do realize he has two rings, right? This year, he was the best player and look what happened. Lack of teammate support against a team that had an army out there. Was Tim Duncan or Leonard the best NBA player? I dare you not. Oh yeah, KD was this year's best player and where did he end up? How come MJ is 1-10 in the playoffs without Scottie Pippen? How come Jordan never made it out the first round in 6 years? And you just contradicted yourself.. You just said Bill Russell never beat anyone yet he has eleven rings.. but no one will dare argue Bill was a better player than Wilt.. Wilt was the best player at that time and yet Bill won. Why? Can you answer that, PLEASE! And instead of using your junky "You'd have to watch the game to understand.", because we all know your credibility is destroyed when you still think Deron Williams is one of the best in the game..., how the hell did the Detroit Pistons beat the Lakers in 2004? Wasn't Shaq the best player? Or are we imaging things again... I don't normally add people to ignore list just because it shows I'm letting people affect me but I guess it's only right since about half of PSD users have you on ignore.

Once again the point of the NBA is win games and win championships, thats where legacys are made. If we are just going play to put up stats since thats all you talk about these days. Stats show Pippen never won defensive player of the yr despite being from what you called the best wing defender ever, then Rodman is best rebounder ever yet your stats show otherwise, then you say Phil is the best coach ever based on? The fact that he has 11 championships? But you said teams win championships not just one person so that cannot be true since people cant get credit according to you for winning championships. Keep bringing up people like Wilt, Russell ex. Thats all you guys do. Spurs championship is due more to the fact that Durant, and LeBron couldnt get the job done and arent as good as people say. We can keep going all night, but STAT wise (since thats all you bring up) Wilt is the best player of all time and it isnt even close. Lets ignore championships because who cares at this point, the best players in the NBA can lose and it should just be accepted. Put me on ignore, nobody is stopping you.

effen5
07-22-2014, 01:37 AM
Correct me if I am wrong, but Jordan won ZERO rings before Pippen's arrival, right? Or am I just imagining things

Pippen didn't become great until after a few years with Jordan.

FlashBolt
07-22-2014, 01:45 AM
Once again the point of the NBA is win games and win championships, thats where legacys are made. If we are just going play to put up stats since thats all you talk about these days. Stats show Pippen never won defensive player of the yr despite being from what you called the best wing defender ever, then Rodman is best rebounder ever yet your stats show otherwise, then you say Phil is the best coach ever based on? The fact that he has 11 championships? But you said teams win championships not just one person so that cannot be true since people cant get credit according to you for winning championships. Keep bringing up people like Wilt, Russell ex. Thats all you guys do. Spurs championship is due more to the fact that Durant, and LeBron couldnt get the job done and arent as good as people say. We can keep going all night, but STAT wise (since thats all you bring up) Wilt is the best player of all time and it isnt even close. Lets ignore championships because who cares at this point, the best players in the NBA can lose and it should just be accepted. Put me on ignore, nobody is stopping you.

Let me guess.. You're one of those people who probably thinks Jordan was a better defensive player than Pippen was. I said he was the greatest wing defender... against the stacked centers who we saw were the greatest defenders of all time, Scottie didn't stood a chance especially with Jordan stealing the spotlight. The only wing defender to win the DPOY the past 25 years is... Ron Artest - and there is no way Artest wins DPOY if he were placed in Scottie's shoes. But yeah, good empty handed argument from your side. Rodman is the GREATEST rebounder. Of course, you can include Wilt and those other centers who racked those inflated rebounds but in the most competitive era of basketball, Rodman for his height, was the greatest rebounder. But you wouldn't of his contribution because all you see is Jordan, Jordan, Jordan. I said Phil Jackson is ARGUABLY one of the greatest coaches... This is based on winning - something that YOU SAID! He would rank 1-3 on the list of greatest NBA coaches if a poll were ever created.. You denying this just proves you're just reaching for a pointless debate. Right.. Durant and LeBron couldn't get it done. So who was the best player last year? Leonard? Duncan? Give me a break. Take out your pillow pet and take a nap.

DoMeFavors
07-22-2014, 01:52 AM
Let me guess.. You're one of those people who probably thinks Jordan was a better defensive player than Pippen was. I said he was the greatest wing defender... against the stacked centers who we saw were the greatest defenders of all time, Scottie didn't stood a chance especially with Jordan stealing the spotlight. The only wing defender to win the DPOY the past 25 years is... Ron Artest - and there is no way Artest wins DPOY if he were placed in Scottie's shoes. But yeah, good empty handed argument from your side. Rodman is the GREATEST rebounder. Of course, you can include Wilt and those other centers who racked those inflated rebounds but in the most competitive era of basketball, Rodman for his height, was the greatest rebounder. But you wouldn't of his contribution because all you see is Jordan, Jordan, Jordan. I said Phil Jackson is ARGUABLY one of the greatest coaches... This is based on winning - something that YOU SAID! He would rank 1-3 on the list of greatest NBA coaches if a poll were ever created.. You denying this just proves you're just reaching for a pointless debate. Right.. Durant and LeBron couldn't get it done. So who was the best player last year? Leonard? Duncan? Give me a break. Take out your pillow pet and take a nap.

So you dismiss the players Wilt played against...but act like Jordan didnt beat anyone good in the "most competitive era of basketball". You say one argument but cant keep that argument because you refute it in another. Stats show Jordan had two 3 peats, you know something stat wise shows rarely occurs. Fact is Jordan played in what you call the most competitive era in basketball and won MVPs, finals MVPs and 6 championships. That era was a lot better than LeBron facing the Bobcats in the playoffs. You cant hold an argument man you are all over the place.

FlashBolt
07-22-2014, 01:58 AM
So you dismiss the players Wilt played against...but act like Jordan didnt beat anyone good in the "most competitive era of basketball". You say one argument but cant keep that argument because you refute it in another. Stats show Jordan had two 3 peats, you know something stat wise shows rarely occurs. Fact is Jordan played in what you call the most competitive era in basketball and won MVPs, finals MVPs and 6 championships. That era was a lot better than LeBron facing the Bobcats in the playoffs. You cant hold an argument man you are all over the place.

Seriously, I really question your IQ.

1) Answer this. If Durant and James weren't the best players last year and Spurs won it last year, who was the best player?

2) Why was Jordan 1-10 in the playoffs without Pippen?


Just answer these two questions with a logical response.

All your answers are based off generalized posts with no insight. It's as if you just search wikipedia and write down "six championships."

Jordan played in the most competitive era in basketball with the greatest rebounder, wing defender, and arguably the greatest coach in NBA history. Dismissed Wilt...? I don't know where you got that from. You don't really have an argument here; just beating around the bush because mommy isn't home to tuck you into bed yet. So far, you compare Jordan (who everyone can agree is the GOAT) to LeBron.. Yet you won't compare LeBron to Magic because you don't have a shred of evidence. From this, I can conclude that you are the average casual fan who thinks he knows it all but in a debate, just shreds up and bases his arguments off google searches of "Why is MJ the best." Use your own brain and understand the context of things.. Do you even read what you're saying? "Jordan has six rings. End of debate." Is that all?

Okay, you win. I have to put you on ignore for sheer ignorance and incompetence. At least with other posters, they have some logical information that they took their time to write. All you reply back with is the same utter disposable trash. This is the same guy who thinks Nets have a bright future ahead of them because they made it to the second round of a weak ECF.. I pity you.



Before you even read DMFavors ridiculous post(s), just consider this.

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?822799-Can-Jason-Kidd-become-the-best-head-coach-in-NBA-history

Dude really thinks J.Kidd will be the greatest coach in NBA history and that Kidd will lead them to the next 6/10 titles. Your credibility is probably lower than your IQ right now.

DoMeFavors
07-22-2014, 02:09 AM
Seriously, I really question your IQ.

1) Answer this. If Durant and James weren't the best players last year and Spurs won it last year, who was the best player?

2) Why was Jordan 1-10 in the playoffs without Pippen?


Just answer these two questions with a logical response.

All your answers are based off generalized posts with no insight. It's as if you just search wikipedia and write down "six championships."

Jordan played in the most competitive era in basketball with the greatest rebounder, wing defender, and arguably the greatest coach in NBA history. Dismissed Wilt...? I don't know where you got that from. You don't really have an argument here; just beating around the bush because mommy isn't home to tuck you into bed yet. So far, you compare Jordan (who everyone can agree is the GOAT) to LeBron.. Yet you won't compare LeBron to Magic because you don't have a shred of evidence. From this, I can conclude that you are the average casual fan who thinks he knows it all but in a debate, just shreds up and bases his arguments off google searches of "Why is MJ the best." Use your own brain and understand the context of things.. Do you even read what you're saying? "Jordan has six rings. End of debate." Is that all?

Okay, you win. I have to put you on ignore for sheer ignorance and incompetence. At least with other posters, they have some logical information that they took their time to write. All you reply back with is the same utter disposable trash. This is the same guy who thinks Nets have a bright future ahead of them because they made it to the second round of a weak ECF.. I pity you.

You can conclude all you want about me, and pity me. Here the Nets stuff comes again, whenever someone argues something the Nets always have to be in it. Stats (we know you love them) show MJ led his team to 72-10. LeBron and Durant ARE the best players in the game today but I am comparing ALL TIME. And with all time comes a category called CHAMPIONSHIPS. Something you act like means nothing because an individual career STAT wise is more important than how many games and championships they won. As for your second question there is no answer to it, nobody has an answer as to why he was 1-10 without Pippen I dont know how I or anyone else can even answer that. Because you can get a wide range of different answers.
Why when players past and present talk about championships they bring up legacy? Because championships define a legacy, its important but according to you from what I am seeing stats are all that matter. Stats.

DoMeFavors
07-22-2014, 02:15 AM
And to add to your now post about me saying "CAN" Can Jason Kidd become the best head coach in history. As I said based on his knowledge of the game and how smart of a player he was. I didnt say he was I said can he be. Am I saying someone like Adam Morrison can be the best head coach ever? What is wrong with asking if a future HOF can be the best coach ever? You are all over the place first the Nets and Deron Williams stuff now this Kidd stuff. You are all over the place when the topic of discussion isnt about any of that.
Anything else?

More-Than-Most
07-22-2014, 02:16 AM
There you go overating everything to make your point, Michael Jordan took down some of the best teams ever and best players ever. Look at the players he beat. Its all about winning the players with the most championships in any sport are the ones who get the respect and legacy. One thing about the NBA it isnt like baseball where it is team or football. The teams with the best player usually wins because of his ability to control the game and take over. LeBron hasnt been able to do that. History shows it.


So Robert Horry------->Jordan

DoMeFavors
07-22-2014, 02:18 AM
So Robert Horry------->Jordan

Like I said MJ leading his team in scoring in the playoffs and being Finals MVP in his title wins compares so well with Horry being a role player.

More-Than-Most
07-22-2014, 02:41 AM
Like I said MJ leading his team in scoring in the playoffs and being Finals MVP in his title wins compares so well with Horry being a role player.

Lebron has done it with less talent around him... Jordan is Goat but Jordan had way more help than James/Kobe and on down the list. People really underrate those bulls supporting casts.

Again you are putting way to much on championships in any sport. Yes basketball 1 player has more control but this isnt golf either.

DoMeFavors
07-22-2014, 02:55 AM
Lebron has done it with less talent around him... Jordan is Goat but Jordan had way more help than James/Kobe and on down the list. People really underrate those bulls supporting casts.

Again you are putting way to much on championships in any sport. Yes basketball 1 player has more control but this isnt golf either.

And MJ has beaten better players, while LeBron has beaten who? LeBrons toughest defeats in his career are who? the 2012 Celtics and 2013 Spurs? While MJ beat The Utah Jazz, Detroit Pistons, Sonics, Knicks, Trailblazers. The level of teams and players MJ beat far surpass LeBron taking down Kemba's Bobcats, Brandon Jennings Bucks, and the great Wizards teams of late 2000s. Please enough is enough.

More-Than-Most
07-22-2014, 03:26 AM
And MJ has beaten better players, while LeBron has beaten who? LeBrons toughest defeats in his career are who? the 2012 Celtics and 2013 Spurs? While MJ beat The Utah Jazz, Detroit Pistons, Sonics, Knicks, Trailblazers. The level of teams and players MJ beat far surpass LeBron taking down Kemba's Bobcats, Brandon Jennings Bucks, and the great Wizards teams of late 2000s. Please enough is enough.

How can you determine skill level from 15 plus years ago till now???? Or is this just the eyes test you are speaking of? You are talking out of your *** now. Todays players are much more athletic and so on and the rules are much much different and oh yea the officiating was very bias and fixed back then correct? or are you just gonna look at a few big names on said teams and assume those teams were stacked?

P&GRealist
07-22-2014, 03:27 AM
Lebron has done it with less talent around him... Jordan is Goat but Jordan had way more help than James/Kobe and on down the list. People really underrate those bulls supporting casts.

Again you are putting way to much on championships in any sport. Yes basketball 1 player has more control but this isnt golf either.

What?

P&GRealist
07-22-2014, 03:28 AM
And MJ has beaten better players, while LeBron has beaten who? LeBrons toughest defeats in his career are who? the 2012 Celtics and 2013 Spurs? While MJ beat The Utah Jazz, Detroit Pistons, Sonics, Knicks, Trailblazers. The level of teams and players MJ beat far surpass LeBron taking down Kemba's Bobcats, Brandon Jennings Bucks, and the great Wizards teams of late 2000s. Please enough is enough.

Good post.

Both MJ and Kobe have had to face tougher teams throughout their careers to even get to the finals much less win it.

Sadds The Gr8
07-22-2014, 03:35 AM
Why is no one posting actual numbers just Lebron is better here and Lebron is better there... lol

Also I'd add the 08-09 season to your bolded statement because Wade was completely ROBBED that year for MVP he clearly took a team of scrubs... not even scrubs --> bums who all rode his butt to the post season. His 2nd best player was a broken down Jermaine Oneal. Wade definitely did more with much much less that year than bron.

I'm sure advanced stats will tell it another way though and Lebron won MVP that year so LBJ was clearly better and on another level :facepalm:

whoopdey-doo...LeBron carried bad teams to deep playoff runs like 5+ times compared to Wade's 1. and didn't wade lose in the first round that year?

More-Than-Most
07-22-2014, 04:09 AM
What?

What didnt you comprehend? Having wade and Bosh Compared to that entire bulls team??? Give me a complete team over a top heavy team any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

TylerSL
07-22-2014, 05:53 AM
Dwyane Wade's prime was truly something special and is undervalued by most, but it is no way better than Lebron James's prime. Lebron is truly an exceptional talent, literally a once in a generation talent. Lebron is on a fast track to being a top 5 player ever.

Wade's Prime (04-11) 26.6 pts, 5.2 rbds, 6.6 asts, 1.8 stls, 1.1 blks, with a shooting line of .486/.292/.770

Lebron's Prime (04-14) 28.2 pts, 7.4 rbds, 7.0 asts, 1.7 stls, 0.8 blks, with a shooting line of .504/.344/.747

Obviously Lebron's prime is still going and has been at least 3 years longer than Wades, and while those numbers above are clearly better you also have to take into account that Lebron's FG% has increased every year for the last 7 years, ranging from .476 to .567, an increase of over 9%. When Lebron is done the only people that can even touch his prime are guys like Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, and Shaq.

Wade's prime was truly great and could reasonably be compared to the primes of guys like Kobe, Bird, and West, but not Lebron James. Wade is great, and extremely unappreciated, especially these last 2 years because he has had such a hard time staying healthy, but he is clearly no Lebron James.

TylerSL
07-22-2014, 05:59 AM
Good post.

Both MJ and Kobe have had to face tougher teams throughout their careers to even get to the finals much less win it.

But the whole league was better back then. Are you seriously going to tell me that the 2010-2014 Miami Heat was better than the 90's Bulls?

effen5
07-22-2014, 08:05 AM
Lebron has done it with less talent around him... Jordan is Goat but Jordan had way more help than James/Kobe and on down the list. People really underrate those bulls supporting casts.

Again you are putting way to much on championships in any sport. Yes basketball 1 player has more control but this isnt golf either.

20 Gene Banks SF 6-7 215 May 15, 1959 5 Duke University
17 Mike Brown C 6-9 257 July 19, 1963 R George Washington University
11 Fred Cofield PG 6-3 190 January 4, 1962 1 Eastern Michigan University
22 Steve Colter PG 6-3 165 July 24, 1962 2 New Mexico State University
40 Dave Corzine C 6-11 250 April 25, 1956 8 DePaul University
25 Earl Cureton C 6-9 210 September 3, 1957 6 University of Detroit Mercy
30 Darren Daye SF 6-8 220 November 30, 1960 3 University of California, Los Angeles
23 Michael Jordan SG 6-6 195 February 17, 1963 2 University of North Carolina
10 Pete Myers SG 6-6 180 September 15, 1963 R University of Arkansas at Little Rock
34 Charles Oakley PF 6-8 225 December 18, 1963 1 Virginia Union University
5 John Paxson PG 6-2 185 September 29, 1960 3 University of Notre Dame
50 Ben Poquette PF 6-9 235 May 7, 1955 9 Central Michigan University
6 Brad Sellers PF 7-0 210 December 17, 1962 R Ohio State University
3 Sedale Threatt PG 6-2 175 September 10, 1961 3 West Virginia University Institute of Technology
21 Elston Turner SF 6-5 190 June 10, 1959 5 University of Mississippi
31 Granville Waiters C 6-11 225 January 8, 1961 3 Ohio State University
12-24 Perry Young SG 6-5 210 August 4, 1963 R Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University

Jordan had a much worse team than Lebron ever did.

mightybosstone
07-22-2014, 08:42 AM
come on now, numbers or stats dont do how good Jordan and Magic were justice. If you saw them play and know just how historic their careers are you would know exactly what I mean. So are you saying once Lebron is gone he will get the treatment MJ gets today? MJ's legacy is crazy because it hasnt dropped one bit, he still gets the respect he earned.

First off, how old are you? Because unless you're in your mid 30s and saw a good chunk of Magic's career this is a moot point. Secondly, I'd like to make a comparison to put some of this stuff into perspective. Did you ever have something that you absolutely loved 10-20 years ago that you later realized wasn't nearly as great as you thought it was? Maybe it was a food or a restaurant or maybe a movie or a television show. But you went a really long time without it and then experienced again recently and realized that it wasn't nearly as good as you thought it once was?

I think athletes can be like that, except you never get to see a large enough sample size of them playing 20 years later to realize just how much you built them up. But I think people build up those memories we cherish and assume the present can never be as great as those particular memories. Call it nostalgia. Call it whatever you like. But that's why we can use numbers and look at the context of a player's career to remove that variable of the argument and look at athletes objectively.

mightybosstone
07-22-2014, 08:47 AM
People are posting

Ppg Lebron
Rebounds Lebron

Etc...

I was not referring to you... You mad bro?

No, you're referring to me. And the reason that I didn't post specific numbers is that it takes any competent person 30 seconds to pull up two tabs with Wade and Lebron's numbers to double check that I'm right. Or it could take me like 10-15 minutes to go in and pull all that data and post it into a PSD post. Here, I'll save you the trouble:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html

Look at the numbers yourself and quit expecting everyone to do the work for you. I'm not going to waste time during a busy work week to pull out a calculator and calculate the numbers for a single poster. But anyone with eyes who understands that larger numbers are generally better when referring to stats can see that Lebron tops Wade in nearly every relevant statistical category with the exception of steals, STL% and FT%.

R. Johnson#3
07-22-2014, 08:47 AM
What does "prime for prime" mean?

mightybosstone
07-22-2014, 08:56 AM
20 Gene Banks SF 6-7 215 May 15, 1959 5 Duke University
17 Mike Brown C 6-9 257 July 19, 1963 R George Washington University
11 Fred Cofield PG 6-3 190 January 4, 1962 1 Eastern Michigan University
22 Steve Colter PG 6-3 165 July 24, 1962 2 New Mexico State University
40 Dave Corzine C 6-11 250 April 25, 1956 8 DePaul University
25 Earl Cureton C 6-9 210 September 3, 1957 6 University of Detroit Mercy
30 Darren Daye SF 6-8 220 November 30, 1960 3 University of California, Los Angeles
23 Michael Jordan SG 6-6 195 February 17, 1963 2 University of North Carolina
10 Pete Myers SG 6-6 180 September 15, 1963 R University of Arkansas at Little Rock
34 Charles Oakley PF 6-8 225 December 18, 1963 1 Virginia Union University
5 John Paxson PG 6-2 185 September 29, 1960 3 University of Notre Dame
50 Ben Poquette PF 6-9 235 May 7, 1955 9 Central Michigan University
6 Brad Sellers PF 7-0 210 December 17, 1962 R Ohio State University
3 Sedale Threatt PG 6-2 175 September 10, 1961 3 West Virginia University Institute of Technology
21 Elston Turner SF 6-5 190 June 10, 1959 5 University of Mississippi
31 Granville Waiters C 6-11 225 January 8, 1961 3 Ohio State University
12-24 Perry Young SG 6-5 210 August 4, 1963 R Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University

Jordan had a much worse team than Lebron ever did.

That was one team in Jordan's 13 years with the Bulls. His third year to be precise. But he got Pippen in year four, and Orlando Woolridge was a pretty solid No. 2 during Jordan's first two seasons. Also, while that roster you posted clearly isn't very impressive, I think that squad compares to a lot of Lebron's earlier seasons. Oakley isn't substantially worse than a prime Ilgauskas.

dannyy08
07-22-2014, 11:01 AM
What does "prime for prime" mean?

Comparing a players prime years to another players prime years during their separate careers.

gatkins11
07-22-2014, 11:27 AM
Prime Wade was pretty damn good. Basically won 06 by himself. However, I think a Prime Lebron is unstoppable. Case can be made, but Lebron is still in his prime so we'll see what he does in CLE.

Lol.

bootypants
07-22-2014, 11:35 AM
Dwyane Wade's prime was truly something special and is undervalued by most, but it is no way better than Lebron James's prime. Lebron is truly an exceptional talent, literally a once in a generation talent. Lebron is on a fast track to being a top 5 player ever.

Wade's Prime (04-11) 26.6 pts, 5.2 rbds, 6.6 asts, 1.8 stls, 1.1 blks, with a shooting line of .486/.292/.770

Lebron's Prime (04-14) 28.2 pts, 7.4 rbds, 7.0 asts, 1.7 stls, 0.8 blks, with a shooting line of .504/.344/.747

Obviously Lebron's prime is still going and has been at least 3 years longer than Wades, and while those numbers above are clearly better you also have to take into account that Lebron's FG% has increased every year for the last 7 years, ranging from .476 to .567, an increase of over 9%. When Lebron is done the only people that can even touch his prime are guys like Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, and Shaq.

Wade's prime was truly great and could reasonably be compared to the primes of guys like Kobe, Bird, and West, but not Lebron James. Wade is great, and extremely unappreciated, especially these last 2 years because he has had such a hard time staying healthy, but he is clearly no Lebron James.

If you are strictly looking at paper stats of course LeBron wins everytime. He is a point forward who has the muscular attributes of a freak Tight End.

But solving, whom is better is not just about paper stats.

It's who was dominant when it mattered, who had the will to carry the team. Who had the heart to keep going through slumps. Who could literally look at their teammates in the eyes and say, it's my time.

Speaking of the mental aspect of the game, Wade has clear advantage in his prime. Although we MAY not have even seen LeBrons prime yet, especially speaking about mental toughness.

We have seen the mental breakdowns of LeBron, we have seen the slumps and how he reacts to them with poor body language and non-chalantly seemingly uncaring at times while he can't make a bucket.

Again, LeBron is the better athlete, the better all around player.

But sometimes, just sometimes, you take a risk on someone like Wade who has the will.

I find this different than Kobes "will" that everyone brings up in the debates. Wade and Kobe did not have the same mental swag when they knew it was their time to take over. It came about very differently.

Chronz
07-22-2014, 11:36 AM
Lol.

rofl

Chronz
07-22-2014, 11:59 AM
Am I not allowed to post an opinion or do all posts have to be backed with data and be long winded?
I dont think he was being serious, it makes no sense because the post he responded to did have numbers. Not sure what his point was there.

DoMeFavors
07-22-2014, 01:48 PM
First off, how old are you? Because unless you're in your mid 30s and saw a good chunk of Magic's career this is a moot point. Secondly, I'd like to make a comparison to put some of this stuff into perspective. Did you ever have something that you absolutely loved 10-20 years ago that you later realized wasn't nearly as great as you thought it was? Maybe it was a food or a restaurant or maybe a movie or a television show. But you went a really long time without it and then experienced again recently and realized that it wasn't nearly as good as you thought it once was?

I think athletes can be like that, except you never get to see a large enough sample size of them playing 20 years later to realize just how much you built them up. But I think people build up those memories we cherish and assume the present can never be as great as those particular memories. Call it nostalgia. Call it whatever you like. But that's why we can use numbers and look at the context of a player's career to remove that variable of the argument and look at athletes objectively.

So because YOU didnt see Jordan play in his prime years that means I haven't? Telling by your Sig you are a college kid. So all you are going to know is STATs man because you didnt see the real thing. And no I have NEVER liked a resaurant or movie or anything a while ago and then watched it or ate at it years later and thought it wasnt as good.
I dont know how you can compare the best player to ever play the game to a movie or place to eat.

TylerSL
07-22-2014, 01:55 PM
If you are strictly looking at paper stats of course LeBron wins everytime. He is a point forward who has the muscular attributes of a freak Tight End.

But solving, whom is better is not just about paper stats.

It's who was dominant when it mattered, who had the will to carry the team. Who had the heart to keep going through slumps. Who could literally look at their teammates in the eyes and say, it's my time.

Speaking of the mental aspect of the game, Wade has clear advantage in his prime. Although we MAY not have even seen LeBrons prime yet, especially speaking about mental toughness.

We have seen the mental breakdowns of LeBron, we have seen the slumps and how he reacts to them with poor body language and non-chalantly seemingly uncaring at times while he can't make a bucket.

Again, LeBron is the better athlete, the better all around player.

But sometimes, just sometimes, you take a risk on someone like Wade who has the will.

I find this different than Kobes "will" that everyone brings up in the debates. Wade and Kobe did not have the same mental swag when they knew it was their time to take over. It came about very differently.

Look Wade is great, but Lebron's Prime is better than Wade's. While IMO they were basically comparable from 2009-2011, Lebron is still in his prime, and Wade is not. And while Wade historically has been more "clutch" than Lebron, Lebron was the one showing up clutch in the 2012 and 2013 NBA Finals. Dwyane Wade will go down as a top 25 player ever, maybe even top 20, but he is not Lebron James.

mightybosstone
07-22-2014, 02:30 PM
So because YOU didnt see Jordan play in his prime years that means I haven't?
What? That's not remotely what I'm saying. In fact, I didn't once mention Jordan in that previous post. I was, however, saying that unless you're in your mid 30s, you weren't old enough to witness the majority of Magic's prime. Are you in your mid-30s or not? That's a pretty simple question.


Telling by your Sig you are a college kid. So all you are going to know is STATs man because you didnt see the real thing.
I'm 27, bro. I watched the last three years of Jordan's title runs as a kid and I remember them fairly well.


And no I have NEVER liked a resaurant or movie or anything a while ago and then watched it or ate at it years later and thought it wasnt as good. I dont know how you can compare the best player to ever play the game to a movie or place to eat.
You're an odd person, then, who has no concept of nostalgia whatsoever. And I find it extremely hard to believe that you've never experienced something in your life and been underwhelmed by that thing later in your life. That would be almost impossibly unless you're like 18 years old or something.

DoMeFavors
07-22-2014, 02:40 PM
What? That's not remotely what I'm saying. In fact, I didn't once mention Jordan in that previous post. I was, however, saying that unless you're in your mid 30s, you weren't old enough to witness the majority of Magic's prime. Are you in your mid-30s or not? That's a pretty simple question.


I'm 27, bro. I watched the last three years of Jordan's title runs as a kid and I remember them fairly well.


You're an odd person, then, who has no concept of nostalgia whatsoever. And I find it extremely hard to believe that you've never experienced something in your life and been underwhelmed by that thing later in your life. That would be almost impossibly unless you're like 18 years old or something.

I do have a concept of nostalgia but I dont see it the same way you see it, not everyone in the world is like you. I reminisce about the past in a positive way and my opinions and views of when I was younger are basically the same as now. Besides maybe baby food I like the same things. And ok you are 27 that doesnt mean everyone on this forum is 27 or younger. You need to understand the world is diverse and just because we dont feel the same way as you doesnt make one a "odd person".

mightybosstone
07-22-2014, 02:45 PM
I do have a concept of nostalgia but I dont see it the same way you see it, not everyone in the world is like you. I reminisce about the past in a positive way and my opinions and views of when I was younger are basically the same as now. Besides maybe baby food I like the same things. And ok you are 27 that doesnt mean everyone on this forum is 27 or younger. You need to understand the world is diverse and just because we dont feel the same way as you doesnt make one a "odd person".
You've yet to answer the simple question of how old you are. Answering that question is kind of key to your argument about watching Magic and MJ in their primes. So, how old are you?

benzni
07-22-2014, 02:49 PM
Skip Bayless is the worst

-me

DoMeFavors
07-22-2014, 02:52 PM
You've yet to answer the simple question of how old you are. Answering that question is kind of key to your argument about watching Magic and MJ in their primes. So, how old are you?

It doesnt matter how old I am, I can say any age possible and it wouldnt matter. I was old enough to watch Magic and Bird in their primes that was a great era in basketball with tough men who would hack star players something these cats today know nothing about.

mightybosstone
07-22-2014, 02:58 PM
It doesnt matter how old I am, I can say any age possible and it wouldnt matter. I was old enough to watch Magic and Bird in their primes that was a great era in basketball with tough men who would hack star players something these cats today know nothing about.

Okay. But that still doesn't change the fact that you're justification of Magic and MJ over Lebron based on scoring makes absolutely no sense because Magic was not remotely the scorer than Lebron is today. Also, this whole thing is completely off topic, because we were talking about Wade and Lebron in the first place. Do you or don't you believe Lebron's prime is greater than Wade's prime? Yes or no?

Crackadalic
07-22-2014, 03:07 PM
Prime Wade couldn't even get pass the hawks in 09 and he was crazy good that year

Burkey3472
07-22-2014, 03:12 PM
Do people still listen to Skip Bayless and Colin Cowherd, I stopped listening to those trolls years ago.

koreancabbage
07-22-2014, 04:16 PM
so from what I have heard/read in this thread is that a guy known for talking out of his ***, dumb as **** material for the most part, and you have the posters that have agreed with him, who are also know for saying dumb **** as well.

hmmmm.

FlashBolt
07-22-2014, 04:52 PM
Wade's Heat eliminated 4-3 by Hawks. James Cavailers eliminates Hawks 4-0. Stop making crap up. As for the Jordan vs LeBron debate, DMF clearly has no argument here. I just love how he chooses MJ to compare to LeBron - ultimately showing a sign of equal comparison. Have you noticed how he never compares Magic vs James or James vs Bird? Because it's easier to just say MJ vs James. No work or insight needed.

NoahH
07-22-2014, 05:21 PM
I dont think anyone puts stock in Bayless' ******** anymore... We all know hes a major DWade dickrider and a huge LeBron hater and he spews ludicrous garbage over and over and over. NO ONE thinks the dude is credibile, but First Take is a huge show because the people like to watch his stupidity

SILVER SEAVER
07-22-2014, 05:50 PM
Skip needs to break with his girlfriend Ernestine and propose to Dwyane Wade immediately. If anybody else broke down like this physically he'd be dumping the dirt on the coffin of their NBA careers instead he insists not to count him out. So if it's so easy for Wade to drop some weight and work with Tim Grover to get back to where he was why didn't he do it while LeBron was still there......like last season?

SILVER SEAVER
07-22-2014, 05:52 PM
I dont think anyone puts stock in Bayless' ******** anymore... We all know hes a major DWade dickrider and a huge LeBron hater and he spews ludicrous garbage over and over and over. NO ONE thinks the dude is credibile, but First Take is a huge show because the people like to watch his stupidity
People watch to see S.A.S. make him look clueless.

ghettosean
07-22-2014, 06:33 PM
Where do you want me to start? Lebron's basic and advanced numbers are superior in every single way. Wade had maybe two years in their entire careers where he was arguably better (03-04, 06-07), but the rest of their careers it wasn't remotely close. Wade was never the best player in the league at a given time, while Lebron has been the best player for the better part of a decade. Lebron has four MVPs (could have more) while Wade never finished higher in voting than third. Wade's best postseason (the highly praised 05-06 playoffs) does not come remotely close to Lebron's four best postseasons statistically.

And if advanced stats and MVPs don't work for you, I'll simplify things a bit to avoid any confusion. Let's break down who had the higher basic stats at their peaks and in terms of career numbers:
PPG: Lebron
APG/AST%: Lebron
RPG/TRB%: Lebron
SPG/STL%: Wade
TOPG/TO%: Lebron
FG%: Lebron
3P%: Lebron
FT%: Wade

So basically Lebron has superior statistical production, had a superior peak, posted better playoff numbers, won far more individual accolades and is on his way to crushing Wade in terms of longevity. In no way, shape or form can you justify to me that Dwyane Wade is a better basketball player than Lebron James is. In sports, much of the conversation is subjective. This is not one of those conversations. You're just wrong.




People are posting

Ppg Lebron
Rebounds Lebron

Etc...

I was not referring to you... You mad bro?

No, you're referring to me. And the reason that I didn't post specific numbers is that it takes any competent person 30 seconds to pull up two tabs with Wade and Lebron's numbers to double check that I'm right. Or it could take me like 10-15 minutes to go in and pull all that data and post it into a PSD post. Here, I'll save you the trouble:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html

Look at the numbers yourself and quit expecting everyone to do the work for you. I'm not going to waste time during a busy work week to pull out a calculator and calculate the numbers for a single poster. But anyone with eyes who understands that larger numbers are generally better when referring to stats can see that Lebron tops Wade in nearly every relevant statistical category with the exception of steals, STL% and FT%.

Dude I'm not the one saying heres the stats to prove this:

Ppg Lebron
Reb Lebron

Etc... lol... with no data at all that's all you.

If you are going to say here's stats then maybe you should post them instead of the above nonsense. If you are too busy with your work schedule then stop saying here's stats and post none because ppl reading will expect it and if you don't want to debate with one poster you probably shouldn't respond to me in the first place if you don't want to debate with that person. You knocked on my door bro not the other way around so please stop acting so pompous and above me it's pretty pathetic.

Why are you so angry man ever since the swing and miss from Houston on Bosh and Melo you have had some anger issues with everyone on every thread so far.

In the end you are posting to links to all of Lebron and D-Wades stats saying do the math for me and prove my point because I'm too busy (translate --> too lazy) to do it myself. Sorry just like you I have a busy life too and don't have the time to prove your own point but if you want to actually provide prime vs prime data and want to continue the debate I'm all for it otherwise good day bro!

Just to add if we took stats so litteral then KAJ should be #1 on PSD GOAT list but people have more sense to look just beyond stats when making a judgement on a career or comparison of players no just stats. Don't be so angry all the time btw relax it's just a PSD thread.

Lastly remember this is a prime vs prime thread not career vs career... I've said since the 1st or 2nd page (probably both) that I think Lebron has had the better career but I think a healthy prime Wade is better and I'd take that any day of the week so ummmmmmmmm....

http://matchbin-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/secure/users/4166071/assets/H26Z_Obama_DealWithIt.jpg

Again if you want to actually provide evidence to support your point I'll continue to debate with you in a civilized manner or we can continue to fling insults your call.

mightybosstone
07-22-2014, 06:56 PM
Dude I'm not the one saying heres the stats to prove this:

Ppg Lebron
Reb Lebron

Etc... lol... with no data at all that's all you.

If you are going to say here's stats then maybe you should post them instead of the above nonsense. If you are too busy with your work schedule then stop saying here's stats and post none because ppl reading will expect it and if you don't want to debate with one poster you probably shouldn't respond to me in the first place if you don't want to debate with that person.You knocked on my door bro not the other way around so please stop acting so pompous and above me it's pretty pathetic.
I knocked on your door because your house was made of a crappy argument. And if you doubt the statistical criteria I posted, instead of complaining about it, how about clicking on those links I just gave you, putting in some effort and proving me wrong? Instead you've gone completely off topic and are complaining instead of discussing the topic at hand.


Why are you so angry man ever since the swing and miss from Houston on Bosh and Melo you have had some anger issues with everyone on every thread so far.
I don't think I was particularly angry in this thread whatsoever. But if you think I just started having a short fuse on this website, you are sorely mistaken. I've pretty much been like this since I joined PSD. I take out all my anger on the Internet instead of the real world, and it's worked out pretty well for me thus far.


In the end you are posting to links to all of Lebron and D-Wades stats saying do the math for me and prove my point because I'm too busy (translate --> too lazy) to do it myself. Sorry just like you I have a busy life too and don't have the time to prove your own point but if you want to actually provide prime vs prime data and want to continue the debate I'm all for it otherwise good day bro!
Well then it sounds like we're both lazy. But unlike you, I'm actually basing my argument on data that I've seen with my eyes rather than generic rationalizations out of thin air. If you don't want to click on two simple links and take two minutes to see the numbers for yourself, that's your prerogative. I'm not your mother and I'm not going to baby you.


Just to add if we took stats so litteral then KAJ should be #1 on PSD GOAT list but people have more sense to look just beyond stats when making a judgement on a career or comparison of players no just stats.
Based on what exactly? If you're talking peak statistical production, MJ is clearly superior to Kareem, and it's not close. You'd have to put a pretty heavy weight on longevity and overall career achievements to pick Kareem or Jordan. I don't.


Lastly remember this is a prime vs prime thread not career vs career... I've said since the 1st or 2nd page (probably both) that I think Lebron has had the better career but I think a healthy prime Wade is better and I'd take that any day of the week.
I never said it was. Peak Lebron is simply a far, far greater player than peak Wade. I'm not going to post every single stat where Lebron is better, because I don't have the time to do it and you can do that at your own leisure. But over the last six years, Lebron has essentially posted 27/7/7/2/1 with a TS% over 60%, a 30+ PER and a WS/48 between .244 and .322. to put that into perspective, Wade topped 27 PPG only three times, 7 APG twice, never once came close to 7 RPG, only topped a 30 PER once and never once topped a WS/48 over .239. Lebron's peak takes Wade's out back behind the shed and makes it his *****.

ghettosean
07-22-2014, 09:20 PM
Your not my mother and clearly lebrons last 6 years blah blah blah... Prime man prime that's what the thread is about I don't know what to say anymore but chill with insults already it doesn't make you right by putting someone down. I looked at the prime stats and I still believe its not the large mountain you are making it out to be... can you at least mention what prime years you are comparing or are you too busy for that too? Thanks mother dearest!

NBA_Starter
07-22-2014, 09:30 PM
I always thought Skip was on drugs.. Now I know.

SILVER SEAVER
07-22-2014, 10:35 PM
LeBron is being mentioned as one of the greatest of all-time with about a dozen years of excellence and there is honestly a debate as to who was better in their prime when LeBron is currently in his carrying Wade's *** and Wade basically started breaking down during his prime. This is a silly discussion because Wade is not even in the discussion for all-time great status.

XpLiCiTT
07-22-2014, 10:40 PM
I can't believe how big this thread has become...

utl768
07-23-2014, 02:01 PM
prime wade carried a team on his back to a title and a finals mvp

prime lebron had the most help in nba history arguably and won 2 titles while also carrying ****** cav teams to 60 plus win seasons

its a tossup because lebrons career was clearly better but wades gets major points for doing what lebron couldnt do and thats win a title on his own

Ty Fast
07-23-2014, 04:15 PM
A prime wade is more clutch

Minimal
07-23-2014, 04:29 PM
I dont think anyone puts stock in Bayless' ******** anymore... We all know hes a major DWade dickrider and a huge LeBron hater and he spews ludicrous garbage over and over and over. NO ONE thinks the dude is credibile, but First Take is a huge show because the people like to watch his stupidity
he is nowhere near stupid, he is paid to say the stuff he says

NoahH
07-23-2014, 08:27 PM
prime wade carried a team on his back to a title and a finals mvp

prime lebron had the most help in nba history arguably and won 2 titles while also carrying ****** cav teams to 60 plus win seasons

its a tossup because lebrons career was clearly better but wades gets major points for doing what lebron couldnt do and thats win a title on his own

Shaq was still a beast in 2006

NBA_Starter
07-23-2014, 10:55 PM
This guy has lost his marbles.

rex.reyesiii
07-24-2014, 10:15 AM
LOL @ Wade's Roster/Teammates 2007-2009 though...

Tymathee
07-24-2014, 11:10 AM
What does everybody make of this crap?

I'll take Prime Lebron over Prime Wade anyday and I don't like Lebron but i'd love him on my team.

He's a "pass first" point forward with insane athleticism, with a great eidetic memory, ball handling skills, rebounding, steals, blocks, inspires teammates and has improved his game from his early days.

Dwayne Wade is the same Wade from when he enetered the league, he's great but he's the same type of player, there has been no evolution, he didn't learn to post up, shoot better, pass better, defend better, nothing, he's the same guy.

Lebron has learned a post up game, how to shoot better, turned into a terror on defense and can play any of the 5 positions on the floor and guard that guy. Last guy to do that was IMO the greatest player ever and the guy i'd pick #1 in an all time fantasy draft, Magic Johnson.

TylerSL
07-24-2014, 01:46 PM
LOL @ Wade's Roster/Teammates 2007-2009 though...

I'm taking it you were not fan of Earl Barron, Yackouba Diawara, Chris Quinn, and Mark Blount?

WaDe03
07-24-2014, 02:15 PM
I'll take Prime Lebron over Prime Wade anyday and I don't like Lebron but i'd love him on my team.

He's a "pass first" point forward with insane athleticism, with a great eidetic memory, ball handling skills, rebounding, steals, blocks, inspires teammates and has improved his game from his early days.

Dwayne Wade is the same Wade from when he enetered the league, he's great but he's the same type of player, there has been no evolution, he didn't learn to post up, shoot better, pass better, defend better, nothing, he's the same guy.

Lebron has learned a post up game, how to shoot better, turned into a terror on defense and can play any of the 5 positions on the floor and guard that guy. Last guy to do that was IMO the greatest player ever and the guy i'd pick #1 in an all time fantasy draft, Magic Johnson.

Wade definitely did learn to post up and is very good at it now and has also learned to play much better off the ball slashing to the basket. His shot is a lot more consistent and says he is reinventing his game over the summer and adding a 3 point shot as well. His 3 point shot was pretty accurate this post season. So all that is evolution to his game and he is going to continue that this summer.

Prime for prime I don't think you can go wrong either way neither one of them could be stopped and both made their teammates better. Both are rare talents.

dalton749
07-24-2014, 03:09 PM
both of them in their prime, if im picking one of them to play for my team in the finals, i choose wade

DoMeFavors
07-24-2014, 03:18 PM
LeBron in Cleveland had good supporting cast most of his team from 2009 and 2010 years shot over 40% from 3. It was perfect match for him. Wade was playing with old role players like Jermaine Oneal,Qrich, Arroyo and young players like Cook, Chalmers. After 2007 Wade had one of the worst supporting casts for a Superstar in the league. If Wade was given Cavs supporting casts those years I am sure he would have gone further than Lebron did.

rex.reyesiii
07-24-2014, 11:25 PM
LeBron in Cleveland had good supporting cast most of his team from 2009 and 2010 years shot over 40% from 3. It was perfect match for him. Wade was playing with old role players like Jermaine Oneal,Qrich, Arroyo and young players like Cook, Chalmers. After 2007 Wade had one of the worst supporting casts for a Superstar in the league. If Wade was given Cavs supporting casts those years I am sure he would have gone further than Lebron did.

Or Kobe's Lakers *oops...

bucketss
07-24-2014, 11:43 PM
LeBron in Cleveland had good supporting cast most of his team from 2009 and 2010 years shot over 40% from 3. It was perfect match for him. Wade was playing with old role players like Jermaine Oneal,Qrich, Arroyo and young players like Cook, Chalmers. After 2007 Wade had one of the worst supporting casts for a Superstar in the league. If Wade was given Cavs supporting casts those years I am sure he would have gone further than Lebron did.

just out of curiosity, what trophy is deron bringing home?

FlashBolt
07-25-2014, 01:16 AM
just out of curiosity, what trophy is deron bringing home?
One made of Whopper Jr. perhaps?

Bostonjorge
07-25-2014, 01:29 AM
Seeing how prime lebron was horrid his first 2 years in the finals and wade was a force people might take wade over James. I for one would not take Prime MVP James who played horrid twice in the finals over prime no MVP wade who played like a true MVP.

Durant, George and melo could of easily won with Miami in 2012 so James winning with them wasn't really to impressive. Wades performance in his first finals is something James could only dream of and James would of not done the same in that situation.

Sly Guy
07-25-2014, 11:23 AM
honestly what these guys say isn't even thread worthy anymore. SAS and Skip are just morons.

Crackadalic
07-25-2014, 11:30 AM
And skip just said Lebron should take the minimum. Skip's trolling is at a all time low right now.

FlashBolt
07-25-2014, 01:11 PM
Seeing how prime lebron was horrid his first 2 years in the finals and wade was a force people might take wade over James. I for one would not take Prime MVP James who played horrid twice in the finals over prime no MVP wade who played like a true MVP.

Durant, George and melo could of easily won with Miami in 2012 so James winning with them wasn't really to impressive. Wades performance in his first finals is something James could only dream of and James would of not done the same in that situation.

Read the question.. It says prime James or prime Wade. That wasn't even prime James but whatever. If Wade was so good, they wouldn't even need James, tbh.

Bostonjorge
07-25-2014, 02:00 PM
Read the question.. It says prime James or prime Wade. That wasn't even prime James but whatever. If Wade was so good, they wouldn't even need James, tbh.

James already had 2 MVP's in his second finlas run but I guess it's not his prime. Fact is prime James does not win u championships with his horrid play he is a possible liability. In 2011 and 2012,that championship team could of won easily with melo, George or Durant. Eaisly.

Wade in his final run was amazing but I guess he wasn't because of what happened to him later. U replace that wade with MVP James in 2010 and James loses. The same MVP James who quit that year against Boston.

FlashBolt
07-25-2014, 02:03 PM
James already had 2 MVP's in his second finlas run but I guess it's not his prime. Fact is prime James does not win u championships with his horrid play he is a possible liability. In 2011 and 2012,that championship team could of won easily with melo, George or Durant. Eaisly.

Wade in his final run was amazing but I guess he wasn't because of what happened to him later. U replace that wade with MVP James in 2010 and James loses. The same MVP James who quit that year against Boston.

Prime James won 2 rings.. are you just making stuff up? Quit against Boston.. Lol? So did Kobe quit against Boston when he went 6-24? No! Because his team played well enough to carry him. And to say Melo, George, or Durant would have won based off? Would they even make it to the Finals? Lmao. You're not very bright, are you?

Bostonjorge
07-25-2014, 02:39 PM
Prime James won 2 rings.. are you just making stuff up? Quit against Boston.. Lol? So did Kobe quit against Boston when he went 6-24? No! Because his team played well enough to carry him. And to say Melo, George, or Durant would have won based off? Would they even make it to the Finals? Lmao. You're not very bright, are you?

The numbers wade and bosh put up with the other role players production how can melo, George and Durant not win with that team in 2011 or 2012?

Those 3 not make the finals in the east with that team is a joke if I ever heard one. James numbers were so horid in 2011 finals that wade and bosh couldn't carry him because James couldn't even find a single way to be affective in any game of the series. Kobe had 1 bad game and had 15 Rebs and 23 points in that bad game.

bucketss
07-25-2014, 03:36 PM
The numbers wade and bosh put up with the other role players production how can melo, George and Durant not win with that team in 2011 or 2012?

Those 3 not make the finals in the east with that team is a joke if I ever heard one. James numbers were so horid in 2011 finals that wade and bosh couldn't carry him because James couldn't even find a single way to be affective in any game of the series. Kobe had 1 bad game and had 15 Rebs and 23 points in that bad game.

lol @ melo or george easily leading a team past westbrook/ibaka/durant, welp time to go back to ignoring you. i don't know why i took you out the ignore list.

NoreastSports
07-25-2014, 06:03 PM
Dwayne wade helped carry lebron through that first title run, the second was lebron but if you Watch both playoff runs wade was the driving force behind the first two finals appearances. The way people felt about nobody helping lebron this year against the spurs was the way it looked for wade against the mavericks that first 2011 lebron disappeared and wade LITERALLY carried the team

bucketss
07-25-2014, 06:26 PM
Dwayne wade helped carry lebron through that first title run, the second was lebron but if you Watch both playoff runs wade was the driving force behind the first two finals appearances. The way people felt about nobody helping lebron this year against the spurs was the way it looked for wade against the mavericks that first 2011 lebron disappeared and wade LITERALLY carried the team

that is false 2012 - 2014, lebron was clearly the one to lead. in 2012 wade was actually playing injured. remember 2012 was the year bron dropped 45 against the celtics in game 6.

FlashBolt
07-25-2014, 06:34 PM
These same people saying Wade carried James are the same one's who think Kobe carried Shaq.. I bet.

NoreastSports
07-25-2014, 06:37 PM
that is false 2012 - 2014, lebron was clearly the one to lead. in 2012 wade was actually playing injured. remember 2012 was the year bron dropped 45 against the celtics in game 6.

Yea lebron rebounded after the whole year of them saying he couldnt get it done, But wade did carry the team in 2011 when lebron was scared to shoot then, lebron took over after wade started battling injuries. but wade even injured hit big shots against okc and lebron picked up a bunch of garbage stats in that finals cause they were blowing them out but early in those games wade was destroying harden with that fade away.
Prime Wade is more dangerous a player I think but lebron is groomed all around defense and passing thats why but offensively wade was an unstoppable highlight reel. Wade is the one you probably want with the ball but you would rather start with lebron IMO

bucketss
07-25-2014, 06:46 PM
Yea lebron rebounded after the whole year of them saying he couldnt get it done, But wade did carry the team in 2011 when lebron was scared to shoot then, lebron took over after wade started battling injuries. but wade even injured hit big shots against okc and lebron picked up a bunch of garbage stats in that finals cause they were blowing them out but early in those games wade was destroying harden with that fade away.
Prime Wade is more dangerous a player I think but lebron is groomed all around defense and passing thats why but offensively wade was an unstoppable highlight reel. Wade is the one you probably want with the ball but you would rather start with lebron IMO

you seem like a hater dude, so lebron never hit big shots in 2012? garbage stats? c'mon dude. btw that series was close, there was only 1 blowout and that was game 5.

Cal827
07-25-2014, 07:28 PM
Well, he's right.

Bostonjorge
07-26-2014, 02:05 AM
lol @ melo or george easily leading a team past westbrook/ibaka/durant, welp time to go back to ignoring you. i don't know why i took you out the ignore list.

The way Miami played how could they not. U have to joking if u truly believe George or Melo couldn't lead that Miami team past okc. Miller, Shane and Chalmers out played all okc's role players including harden. Wade and bosh destroyed okc.

Your love for lebron is hilarious. Your one of those guys who thinks Jordan or chamberlain couldn't replace James and beat the spurs last year I bet.

Chronz
07-26-2014, 02:13 AM
LeBron in Cleveland had good supporting cast most of his team from 2009 and 2010 years shot over 40% from 3. It was perfect match for him. Wade was playing with old role players like Jermaine Oneal,Qrich, Arroyo and young players like Cook, Chalmers. After 2007 Wade had one of the worst supporting casts for a Superstar in the league. If Wade was given Cavs supporting casts those years I am sure he would have gone further than Lebron did.

What did they shoot from 3 when it counted again? And why are we ignoring defense altogether?

FlashBolt
07-26-2014, 02:52 AM
DoMeFavors: "Kidd will be the greatest coach in NBA history!!!"

Are we really taking anything from DMF serious?