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View Full Version : Who Will Become Really Good First? Jazz or Magic?



Clippersfan86
07-14-2014, 08:05 PM
Both have very talented young cores, but lack a defined star. Which team becomes a legit playoff team sooner? I'll just be listing young players with upside as the "core" of team.



Jazz core: Dante Exum, Enes Kanter, Gordon Hayward, Derrick Favors, Alec Burks, Rodney Hood, Rudy Gobert, Jeremy Evans.

Magic core: Victor Oladipo, Aaron Gordon, Tobias Harris, Mo Harkless, Elfrid Payton, Nikola Vujevic.

goingfor28
07-14-2014, 08:07 PM
Magic. East is better now but the west is fkn loaded

TheNumber37
07-14-2014, 08:08 PM
Magic because of Defense

ManRam
07-14-2014, 08:42 PM
Jazz should be a tad further ahead at this point considering Hayward and Favors are entering their 5th years. None of that young core for Orlando is as experienced. Are they further ahead? IDK. I think they're both gonna struggle again this year. Magic might just finish with a better record because of the East. I also think they have a bit better depth and defensive potential.

Quinnsanity
07-14-2014, 08:46 PM
I don't believe the Magic will ever be more than first round fodder. They don't have any shooting. You can't win in today's NBA without shooting. Yes, they signed Channing Frye, but he'll have no space to operate with the other guys on the floor. Taking him Phoenix, a shooter's paradise, and sticking him in Orlando is going to murder his numbers.

InRoseWeTrust
07-14-2014, 08:58 PM
I think the Jazz, only because of how sold I am on Exum as a prospect. I'm not a huge fan of Aaron Gordon, and while I like Oladipo a lot, I don't think they have the shooting they need moving forward. They should be a plus defensive team very soon, but they are going to struggle on the other end of the court. And trust me, as a Bulls fan, I'm totally qualified to render that opinion.

5ass
07-14-2014, 09:03 PM
I don't believe the Magic will ever be more than first round fodder. They don't have any shooting. You can't win in today's NBA without shooting. Yes, they signed Channing Frye, but he'll have no space to operate with the other guys on the floor. Taking him Phoenix, a shooter's paradise, and sticking him in Orlando is going to murder his numbers.

Explain.

Oefarmy2005
07-14-2014, 09:03 PM
Boston

5ass
07-14-2014, 09:05 PM
The magic might never be an elite offensive team, but the tools are there to be elite defensively. As far as shooting, that's why rob drafted hard working players. They're still so young and still developing.

5ass
07-14-2014, 09:10 PM
To answer the OP's question, I think the jazz are further ahead right now, but I like the magic's potential better.
Also, you forgot abut Fournier.

spreadeagle
07-14-2014, 09:20 PM
Magic blew it by not taking Exum..Jazz never get free agents tho

Lo Porto
07-14-2014, 09:22 PM
I'm biased, but I definitely think Jazz. They have more balance between offense and defense. They have 5 pgs/wings with potential (Burke, Exum, Burks, Hood and Hayward) and three bits with potential (Kanter, Favors and Gobert).

I like what Orlando is doing, but the Jazz will be a better team. More balance and more depth.

Sactown
07-14-2014, 09:24 PM
I think both had mediocre off seasons and drafts so I'm unsure

2-ONE-5
07-14-2014, 09:25 PM
jazz are in troube. paying Heyward 15 mil with Favors and Kanter up for deals soon isnt a good start. Ill take the MAgic here bcuz i think the Gordon/Vuc duo is being really underrated in terms of potential and fit. But Sixers over both (not even being a homer)

5ass
07-14-2014, 10:15 PM
Magic blew it by not taking Exum..Jazz never get free agents tho

Give me Gordon and Payton over Exum and McDourmett/Saric. The magic made the right choice. I'm not in love with Exum's potential. I like him, and his game, but he's still a project too.

RB#20
07-14-2014, 10:19 PM
Boston

Yes.

Lo Porto
07-14-2014, 10:24 PM
Gordon will be solid, but he's Shawn Marion. Exum could be something different. A matchup nightmare

5ass
07-14-2014, 10:30 PM
Gordon will be solid, but he's Shawn Marion. Exum could be something different. A matchup nightmare

lol, you dont know what Gordon's going to be he's 18. He has just as much potential as Exum. Exum does nothing great right now. The drop off in potential (if any) between Exum and Payton is not too significant.

5ass
07-14-2014, 10:38 PM
btw prime marion is a beast, and i can see the comparison, but at the same time, I'm not going to say he's going to be Shawn Marion.
I'm not saying he'll be better than prime Marion either btw

5ass
07-14-2014, 10:56 PM
And of all the young team, I like the bucks' potential the most.

spreadeagle
07-14-2014, 10:58 PM
lol, you dont know what Gordon's going to be he's 18. He has just as much potential as Exum. Exum does nothing great right now. The drop off in potential (if any) between Exum and Payton is not too significant. Exum's passing looks pretty sweet, I feel Gordon was a combine stud whos game isnt polished enough to be taken as high as he was

5ass
07-14-2014, 11:09 PM
Exum's passing looks pretty sweet, I feel Gordon was a combine stud whos game isnt polished enough to be taken as high as he was

His passing needs some work, but that's mainly because of the different level of teammates/competition, and work on his accuracy. He'll learn quick I'm sure, and there's no doubt in my mind he'll be a very good passer.
Gordon is polished enough defensively :shrug: , I agree though, he needs a lot of work on offense. What I'm saying is Gordon and Payton seems like a better choice than Exum and whatever PF. You have to assess the Gordon over Exum pick with the Payton pick.

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
07-14-2014, 11:11 PM
As a magic fan I wanted nothing to do with exum so I'm glad we didn't get him... I don't by the hype there and his shooting is bad as well, Payton showed great passing ability in our summer league it was a breath of fresh air after our Nelson years lol ... he was coming near triple doubles in all the games but the first.

Can't say I loved the Gordon pick but I trust in hennigans choice he has a good eye for talent and Gordon is 18 he can work on a shot.

Channing Frye isn't helping us win games we know that lol he is just a good vet and role model for our locker room and he helps spread the floor which we help our young team on the court ... I like where all the young teams are heading

Magic
Bucks
Jazz
Celtics

I think they all have lots of young talent

And on the whole shooting thing we still have tons of cap room so adding a shooter or two is still a possible down the road ... the rebuild isn't complete yet but thus far I love what henny has done since the Dwight trade

c.c.
07-14-2014, 11:17 PM
Magic blew it by not taking Exum..Jazz never get free agents tho

This is why I chose the Magic. I think the Utah is least desirable place a player would wanna go.

Lo Porto
07-14-2014, 11:22 PM
Gordon and Exum are both physically gifted. Both are very young. Both have tons of potential. Both aren't known for shooting.

The difference? There are a ton of athletically gifted 3's and 4's. There are only so many 6'6" pg's who could be the fastest player in the league according to many.

Lo Porto
07-14-2014, 11:25 PM
This is why I chose the Magic. I think the Utah is least desirable place a player would wanna go.

Boozer, Okur, Jason Terry, and many other guys have given Utah a shot. Utah also doesn't just splash cash just to get an average guy either. Our worst financial move in years could be matching Hayward, but that might be a decent deal when the TV deal comes.

5ass
07-14-2014, 11:32 PM
I'd like to throw out my assessment on Exum so far for anyone to agree or disagree, especially jazz fans..

-Not strong enough to finish at the rim.
-Not a good shooter, though he's showing something
-Gets a bit too loose with the handles, though has a deadly crossover, explosive first step
-Moves well without the ball, good sign for playing him with a burk
-Good passer, but needs to adjust a bit his passing especially to the big guys around the rim.
-good playmaker
-Not a great defender. I see him more of a tweener than what I thought he could do, which is cover both guard spots. I dont know why I was expecting a much better defender. Quick hands though, will grab some steals.
-Conditioning is really bad right now, but that should improve quick.

please note that this is only based on 1.5 games in summer league. Its a way too early, but that's what I see so far.

5ass
07-14-2014, 11:37 PM
Gordon and Exum are both physically gifted. Both are very young. Both have tons of potential. Both aren't known for shooting.

The difference? There are a ton of athletically gifted 3's and 4's. There are only so many 6'6" pg's who could be the fastest player in the league according to many.
Fastest player in the league? He's quick, but do you really think that?
You can argue Gordon is too quick for PFs and too strong for SF, but you know why that doesn't matter? Because he can't use that to his advantage on offense. Similarly, Exum won't use his size for his advantage (right now), he's neither strong, nor does he post up.

MrfadeawayJB
07-14-2014, 11:42 PM
Jazz will be the better team but magic make the playoffs sooner

5ass
07-14-2014, 11:49 PM
Amazing shooting by Rodney hood tonight.

Clippersfan86
07-14-2014, 11:51 PM
I think this is a classic defense vs offense debate. Let's see which is truly more conducive to winning. Magic have the personnel to be a top 3 defense in the NBA, maybe tops. Jazz have a ton of offensive firepower to be a top 5 offense, but crappy D. I chose these teams because talent wise similar, but so different. Next I'll do the Bucks and someone else.

JustinTime
07-15-2014, 12:01 AM
Neither will become really good because they're bad franchises.

Quinnsanity
07-15-2014, 12:03 AM
Explain.

There's no spacing on that team. Defending them amounts to the very simple task of packing the paint. You can do that pretty easily while still leaving one guy to hang on the perimeter with Frye.

5ass
07-15-2014, 12:11 AM
There's no spacing on that team. Defending them amounts to the very simple task of packing the paint. You can do that pretty easily while still leaving one guy to hang on the perimeter with Frye.

We have Fournier, oladipo, harkless and Harris (really struggled last year) that can potentially shoot an average % next year, its not like all our players don't have a shot whatsoever. Also, there's Willie green if he's going to see some minutes.

Sactown
07-15-2014, 12:12 AM
For me personally

Magic dumped an asset for little return
Drafted a PF who they could of traded back to get
But made the right move getting a PG later in the 1st

I think they have a ton of defensive potential but really need help scoring and lack of perimeter shooting is going to hurt


Jazz
Bizarre to me to draft a PG and hinder his development by making him play off the ball as the SG... Trade Trey B or move him because this isn't going to work.. Exum who lacks shooting shouldn't be playing the 2


Matched contract on Gordon Hayward who is another player who needs the ball in his hands to be effective is confusing none of there three perimeter players seem to be compatible and there post players have been underwhelming

Not really enfatuated with either roster as they stand

5ass
07-15-2014, 12:16 AM
For me personally

Magic dumped an asset for little return
Drafted a PF who they could of traded back to get
But made the right move getting a PG later in the 1st

I think they have a ton of defensive potential but really need help scoring and lack of perimeter shooting is going to hurt


Jazz
Bizarre to me to draft a PG and hinder his development by making him play off the ball as the SG... Trade Trey B or move him because this isn't going to work.. Exum who lacks shooting shouldn't be playing the 2


Matched contract on Gordon Hayward who is another player who needs the ball in his hands to be effective is confusing none of there three perimeter players seem to be compatible and there post players have been underwhelming

Not really enfatuated with either roster as they stand
Fournier is a nice piece. He has the potential to be better than afflalo, he might never get there, but he could very well be just as good as afflalo. He's a very nice fit too.
Gordon would've been gone by 6, Boston was going to draft him if we didn't.

Sactown
07-15-2014, 12:21 AM
Fournier is a nice piece. He has the potential to be better than afflalo, he might never get there, but he could very well be just as good as afflalo. He's a very nice fit too.
Gordon would've been gone by 6, Boston was going to draft him if we didn't.

Maybe Boston drafts him they also seemed very high on Smart but regardless tweeners historically haven't panned out , and maybe I'm wrong with him but I think Randle is a better fit anyways, and I think the lack of shooting is going to be a big issue, Fournier hasn't proved enough in this league to warrent that type of ceiling

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
07-15-2014, 12:31 AM
There actually was a report like an hour before the draft from a credible source that jazz were going to take Gordon at 5

5ass
07-15-2014, 12:32 AM
Maybe Boston drafts him they also seemed very high on Smart but regardless tweeners historically haven't panned out , and maybe I'm wrong with him but I think Randle is a better fit anyways, and I think the lack of shooting is going to be a big issue, Fournier hasn't proved enough in this league to warrent that type of ceiling

Except he's the type of tweener that could guard both forward positions. Not neither. Randle and vuc? We need defense in the front court.
Fournier is only 21 years old. He has a lot of potential in him. He's shown he can handle the ball, pass, shoot, play some d, competitiveness, work ethic, etc. Its very probable that in the future, he's atleast a solid role player, and afflalo is just that.

Sactown
07-15-2014, 12:38 AM
Except he's the type of tweener that could guard both forward positions. Not neither. Randle and vuc? We need defense in the front court.
Fournier is only 21 years old. He has a lot of potential in him. He's shown he can handle the ball, pass, shoot, play some d, competitiveness, work ethic, etc. Its very probable he's atleast a solid role player, and afflalo is just that.

Yeah but Gordon has showed little to nothing on the other end, and that's scary, like I said he very well could pan out he's very young.

I think randle would give Orlando a dominant offensive player which I think it's lacking but you're right him and Vuc could have defensive issues.

Fournier ultimately is a guy who averaged 8/2/2 and to say he has the potential to beat out a guy who averaged over 18/3.6/3.4 with more elite defense and more effecient scoring especially from deep is being pretty optimistic

Lo Porto
07-15-2014, 12:39 AM
Anything I say is going to be shot down by captain Magic.

But Orlando needs a whole bunch if shooting. SA made Miami look pathetic because they had Wade and a pg who couldn't shoot. As of now, Petyon, Oladipo and Gordon struggle from deep. Teams will just sag.

5ass
07-15-2014, 12:49 AM
Yeah but Gordon has showed little to nothing on the other end, and that's scary, like I said he very well could pan out he's very young.

I think randle would give Orlando a dominant offensive player which I think it's lacking but you're right him and Vuc could have defensive issues.

Fournier ultimately is a guy who averaged 8/2/2 and to say he has the potential to beat out a guy who averaged over 18/3.6/3.4 with more elite defense and more effecient scoring especially from deep is being pretty optimistic

Affllao is not an elite defender :laugh:, he's a good defender. Every player has to start somewhere, I never said he was going to score the ball more efficiently, but as an all around player he can be as good as afflalo and has the potential to be better however slim that probability is (probably looked better in his rookie year, but he says he wasn't used properly last year). Also, afflalo put up 18 ppg, but as a number one option on offense. He's not a career 18ppg guy.

Sactown
07-15-2014, 12:54 AM
Affllao is not an elite defender :laugh:, he's a good defender. Every player has to start somewhere, I never said he was going to score the ball more efficiently, but as an all around player he can be as good as afflalo and has the potential to be better however slim that probability is (probably looked better in his rookie year, but he says he wasn't used properly last year). Also, afflalo put up 18 ppg, but as a number one option on offense. He's not a career 18ppg guy.

Regardless as you define him as a defender he was still able to score more efficiently while having a higher usage and being a #1 option..

5ass
07-15-2014, 12:59 AM
Anything I say is going to be shot down by captain Magic.

But Orlando needs a whole bunch if shooting. SA made Miami look pathetic because they had Wade and a pg who couldn't shoot. As of now, Petyon, Oladipo and Gordon struggle from deep. Teams will just sag.
I don't shoot down anything without explaining why. So what's the problem? Argue back, and tell me why I'm wrong.
And as of now Payton, Gordon and oladipo won't see much time on the court together. Oladipo shot 33% last year and that's with many off the dribble threes. With Payton he'll get a lot more open looks. To say he could potentially shoot 35% next year, isn't crazy. Gordon will probably play like 20 mpg. I agree that the magic will struggle to shoot the three next year, but you guys are imagining this..
Payton
Oladipo
Harris
Gordon
Vuc
=terrible shooting. In reality that's not how its going to go down.

5ass
07-15-2014, 01:01 AM
Regardless as you define him as a defender he was still able to score more efficiently while having a higher usage and being a #1 option..

No doubt, I'm just saying his numbers are inflated because he had more opportunities, that's why his PPG was higher.

Shlumpledink
07-15-2014, 01:02 AM
magic, because being halfway decent is still enough to make the 2nd round of the playoffs in the east. being halfway decent in the west makes you a bottom feeder in the west, but not as bad as half the teams in the east.

Sactown
07-15-2014, 01:05 AM
No doubt, I'm just saying his numbers are inflated because he had more opportunities, that's why his PPG was higher.
I know but he still showed he can score while remaining efficiency, Fournier has a long ways to go to show he can produce like that

Still like magic over the Jazz

5ass
07-15-2014, 01:14 AM
I know but he still showed he can score while remaining efficiency, Fournier has a long ways to go to show he can produce like that

Still like magic over the Jazz

That's where the he's "only 21" part comes in again. If he had already proven to be as good as afflalo, the nuggets wouldn't have traded him. He's shown some flashes, and needs to get experience and polish his game. That's all potential is. I don't think its crazy for him to be atleast solid role player. Denver fans themselves like Fournier, I always liked him back from his rookie season. You can't say he'll never be as good as or better than afflalo either because he's only 21 and has all the tools necessary to do so.

spreadeagle
07-15-2014, 06:59 AM
NBC sports
• You can sign me up for the Dante Exum fan club. The guy has a real star quality about him and his game.

Monday was the first time I have seen him play in person and there is a lot to like. He has this loping dribble that he can turn into quick step to drive or to set up a pass (he has a wicked hesitation dribble). Exum is tall for a guard and that combined with a fantastic floor vision leads to some very smart passes other guards do not see (and also a few rookie passes he will learn he can’t make against this level of athlete). He is very quick on the dribble and can get into the paint. He struggled a little with his shot Monday night but his form looks good. Utah may really have something with Trey Burke at the point and Exum at the two (or Exum may take his point job).

ManRam
07-15-2014, 10:40 AM
The shooting concern is legit for Orlando.

The notion that this core won't change at all probably isn't. There will be pieces added & there will be pieces moved. The importance for Orlando at this point is bringing in talent. The importance later on is making that talent fit and work. But that's the second step. It's too early to be speaking in absolutes about any young roster. Saying "the will never...blah blah blah" is just silly. These rosters aren't static. They'll change, evolve and grow over time when an effort to contend is made.

The finances might play a role too.

Hayward and Favors have already signed their second contracts. Kanter and Burks are up for theirs this next offseason. That's 4 core guys at the start of the 2015-16 season that are on their second contracts.

Conversely, none of the Magic core has signed their second contracts and Vucevic and Harris are up for theirs this next offseason. The big one, Oladipo, isn't for a while either. There's still a window.

Some of that hinges on what they do with Harris, who I'm actually becoming OK with the idea of letting walk/trading. But the rumor is they're gonna work on extending both around labor day, much like Utah tried/did with Hayward and Favors. Hopefully unlike Hayward, Vucevic doesn't hit RFA.

The Magic can control 10 guys (Dipo, Gordon, Vuc, Harris, Payton, Harkless, Nicholson, Fournier, KOQ, Frye) for under $50 million next year. That's assuming Vuc is getting around 13 and Harris around 8. If they let Harris go they could realistically be at 41-42 million depending on Vuc. That's max money space. It doesn't sound like they will, but who knows? Either way there's room for another splash to address whatever need looks pressing. Hell, if the cap does jump to 66.5 million in 2015-16 like Larry Coon projects, they could keep Harris, let Nicholson go and have max/near-max money anyways.

Just speculating and a Jazz fan can correct me, but I'd imagine Kanter is looking at no less than $10 million annually starting in 2015-16 and Burks probably around $8M or so. Hayward at 15.5, Favors at 12, Kanter at ~10, Burks at ~8 and you're already at 45.5ish for just 4 players. Burke, Exum, Novak, Hood, Gobert and you're at just under $60 million for 9 guys. Not terrible, just not as great.


Ultimately it depends mostly on how good Oladipo/Gordon/Payton/Vuc and Hayward/Exum/Favors/Kanter really become. If one of them becomes a super star, that could be all the difference in the world.

A lot of thinking out loud, pardon me.

dhopisthename
07-15-2014, 11:46 AM
Just speculating and a Jazz fan can correct me, but I'd imagine Kanter is looking at no less than $10 million annually starting in 2015-16 and Burks probably around $8M or so. Hayward at 15.5, Favors at 12, Kanter at ~10, Burks at ~8 and you're already at 45.5ish for just 4 players. Burke, Exum, Novak, Hood, Gobert and you're at just under $60 million for 9 guys. Not terrible, just not as great.



I bet the jazz let kanter go or trade him. he has struggled quite a bit, and he hasn't worked with favors. plus with the way gobert has looked I wouldn't be surprised if the jazz decide they can let him go.

KnicksorBust
07-15-2014, 12:15 PM
Gordon will be solid, but he's Shawn Marion. Exum could be something different. A matchup nightmare

"but he's Shawn Marion." Why is there a but in front of that? It should sound more like "He could be SHAWN MARION!!!!" I doubt Orlando Magic fans would be disappointed if they woke up one day and found out that Gordon was averaging 20ppg-10rpg-2spg-2bpg and shooting 50% from the field.


Just speculating and a Jazz fan can correct me, but I'd imagine Kanter is looking at no less than $10 million annually starting in 2015-16 and Burks probably around $8M or so. Hayward at 15.5, Favors at 12, Kanter at ~10, Burks at ~8 and you're already at 45.5ish for just 4 players. Burke, Exum, Novak, Hood, Gobert and you're at just under $60 million for 9 guys. Not terrible, just not as great.

This paragraph makes me cringe. The idea that a team that won 25 games last year would re-sign all of these players on big deals is team suicide. Favors is the only one I could realistically buy at his price. Hayward-Kanter-Burks are all gross overpays and team killing contracts.


Ultimately it depends mostly on how good Oladipo/Gordon/Payton/Vuc and Hayward/Exum/Favors/Kanter really become. If one of them becomes a super star, that could be all the difference in the world.

A lot of thinking out loud, pardon me.

Exactly and in my opinion we can already answer convincingly that 3 of those Jazz players are not. In my opinion, Olapido is the safest all-star caliber player in the bunch and they have the upside plays of Payton at PG and Gordon at F. Give me Orlando's future.

RLundi
07-15-2014, 12:44 PM
Orlando, easily.

Why?

First, Orlando is in the east. The west is loaded for the foreseeable future. Utah could have a much better team than Orlando but fail to make the playoffs. That part works in favor for the Magic, and any team out east for that matter.

Second, Utah is not a free agent destination. Orlando isn't New York or Los Angeles either but it's done historically well at luring free agents when it's had the cap space.

Third, I think Orlando has more potential stars. I think Exum is going to be a stud, and Burke might be very good if they decide they can play together long term. Outside of that, Favors, Kanter and Hayward look more like solid role players. I could be wrong but that's what I can envision. Oladipo on the other hand looks like a potential All-Star. Very small sample size, but Payton looks like Eric Bledsoe with better passing ability. And Vucevic will be 18-12 easily. Jury is still out on Harris and Gordon. If Harris can be a reliable bench scorer and Gordon becomes a super utility man, these guys could also be absolute gems, and that's not far-fetched or optimistic at all. These are very possible scenarios. Clearly I know more about the Magic's roster than the Jazz's so if any Jazz fan wants do chime in on their roster, please feel free to.

ManRam
07-15-2014, 12:44 PM
Just to clarify in my last post that the finances I'm talking about are for next offseason. Obviously I think both teams are pretty much done with big splashes this summer. So by "next year" I actually meant 2015-16. Magic could have a nice chunk of cap space next offseason.


This paragraph makes me cringe. The idea that a team that won 25 games last year would re-sign all of these players on big deals is team suicide. Favors is the only one I could realistically buy at his price. Hayward-Kanter-Burks are all gross overpays and team killing contracts.


Exactly and in my opinion we can already answer convincingly that 3 of those Jazz players are not. In my opinion, Olapido is the safest all-star caliber player in the bunch and they have the upside plays of Payton at PG and Gordon at F. Give me Orlando's future.

It doesn't make me cringe, but it's a little scary for sure. That's a lot of money tied up into 4 guys, none of whom seemingly have super-star potential. But I do like Hayward and Favors more than most, it seems. I once really liked Kanter too, but he made literally no strides last year it seems. But still, he's a 16-10 guy per 36 minutes who can play some defense. He has value...I'm just not sure it's worth it for them. It will all but ruin the bulk of their
cap flexibility.

I don't think Dipo turns into a superstar, but I guess he has a more probable chance than Hayward, Favors, Kanter, Burks or Burke at this point.



More trivial matters like East vs. West and free agent lurability play a role too. But I think there's slightly more room for hope for Orlando just because, again, they're more in their infancy than Utah with this rebuild and have slightly more cap flexibility because of that. Utah should be further ahead than Orlando right now, and they just aren't quite. They lost their star a year and a half earlier than Orlando did.

RLundi
07-15-2014, 01:00 PM
If I had to sort the tanking/rebuilding teams based on potential and all things considered, I'd say:

Philadelphia
Milwaukee
Orlando
Utah
Boston

ManRam
07-15-2014, 01:56 PM
If I had to sort the tanking/rebuilding teams based on potential and all things considered, I'd say:

Philadelphia
Milwaukee
Orlando
Utah
Boston

I agree. I'm not 100% sure who I'd have at 1 or 2, but MLW and PHI definitely are the top-2. Obviously a lot of their players have a lot of question marks, but the upside seems the brightest. Boston is so far in their infancy that it's hard to really project, but being in Boston could be a huge difference maker. I'd imagine many players might be more willing to go there than Utah, Milwaukee and to a slightly lesser extent Philly and Orlando.

I'd be very excited if I were a Philly/MLW fan. Philly fans might need a ton of patience, but I think they very well could have the best player from the 2013 draft and the best player from the 2014 draft on their roster.

Jumba
07-15-2014, 02:03 PM
"but he's Shawn Marion." Why is there a but in front of that? It should sound more like "He could be SHAWN MARION!!!!" I doubt Orlando Magic fans would be disappointed if they woke up one day and found out that Gordon was averaging 20ppg-10rpg-2spg-2bpg and shooting 50% from the field.



This paragraph makes me cringe. The idea that a team that won 25 games last year would re-sign all of these players on big deals is team suicide. Favors is the only one I could realistically buy at his price. Hayward-Kanter-Burks are all gross overpays and team killing contracts.



Exactly and in my opinion we can already answer convincingly that 3 of those Jazz players are not. In my opinion, Olapido is the safest all-star caliber player in the bunch and they have the upside plays of Payton at PG and Gordon at F. Give me Orlando's future.

All of this coming from a Knicks fan makes me lol. Talk about a financial nightmare.

This year for both the jazz and magic will be telling for what direction we're both going. If the magic can't get nominal success in the east this year then that should answer this question. Utah has been tasked with the worst coaches in the NBA through our rebuilding. We hopefully have a keeper in Snyder.

Spanklin
07-15-2014, 02:23 PM
The Magic will never be really good if they keep passing on Exum's for guys who cannot hit the broadside of a barn.

The Jazz will never be really good again because they're in Utah, and nobody wants to play for them.

5ass
07-15-2014, 02:55 PM
NBC sports
Just hype, they like to do that for foreign lottery picks. Remember the Rubio hype?
That guy's assessment is the same as mine, except he doesn't mention the weaknesses. I told you he's quick, I told you he has a killer first step, and that he's a smart passer (but still adjusting to competition). Get to the paint? Ok, but what's the point if he can't finish around the rim.
Exum is much more of a project than people realize. He has a long way to go to be great.

5ass
07-15-2014, 03:07 PM
The Magic will never be really good if they keep passing on Exum's for guys who cannot hit the broadside of a barn.

The Jazz will never be really good again because they're in Utah, and nobody wants to play for them.
Put a bunch of 18-19-20-21 year olds with a very strong work ethic and a willingness to improve their shot together for the next 5 years. I think they'll be alright.

KnicksorBust
07-15-2014, 03:17 PM
Just to clarify in my last post that the finances I'm talking about are for next offseason. Obviously I think both teams are pretty much done with big splashes this summer. So by "next year" I actually meant 2015-16. Magic could have a nice chunk of cap space next offseason.



It doesn't make me cringe, but it's a little scary for sure. That's a lot of money tied up into 4 guys, none of whom seemingly have super-star potential. But I do like Hayward and Favors more than most, it seems. I once really liked Kanter too, but he made literally no strides last year it seems. But still, he's a 16-10 guy per 36 minutes who can play some defense. He has value...I'm just not sure it's worth it for them. It will all but ruin the bulk of their
cap flexibility.

I don't think Dipo turns into a superstar, but I guess he has a more probable chance than Hayward, Favors, Kanter, Burks or Burke at this point.



More trivial matters like East vs. West and free agent lurability play a role too. But I think there's slightly more room for hope for Orlando just because, again, they're more in their infancy than Utah with this rebuild and have slightly more cap flexibility because of that. Utah should be further ahead than Orlando right now, and they just aren't quite. They lost their star a year and a half earlier than Orlando did.

I don't see a superstar in Dipo either but I can definitely see him making a few all-star teams if he keeps developing on both sides of the ball. To me all those other variables all favor Orlando as well.


All of this coming from a Knicks fan makes me lol. Talk about a financial nightmare.

The Knicks have a top 15 player, over $35 million in expiring contracts for potential trades, and will have money to sign a max player next off season. What is so bad about that? :confused:


This year for both the jazz and magic will be telling for what direction we're both going. If the magic can't get nominal success in the east this year then that should answer this question. Utah has been tasked with the worst coaches in the NBA through our rebuilding. We hopefully have a keeper in Snyder.

First of all, I'm not sure you wanted to use the word nominal. Maybe look it up?

Second of all, I don't agree that the Magic need to have success this year. They might benefit the most from one more season in the lottery. Oklahoma City, Seattle at the time, only won 20 games in Durant's first season, that allowed them to get Russell Westbrook. They STILL only won 23 games with Durant and Westbrook. That allowed them to get James Harden and suddenly they were a 50 win team.

I could see the Magic needing one more lottery player and year to grow together before we see significant improvement.

ManRam
07-15-2014, 04:31 PM
This year for both the jazz and magic will be telling for what direction we're both going. If the magic can't get nominal success in the east this year then that should answer this question. Utah has been tasked with the worst coaches in the NBA through our rebuilding. We hopefully have a keeper in Snyder.

I don't quite think the Magic have to show a ton of growth. At least not as much as Utah. The Magic are younger and earlier into their rebuild. Again, the Jazz SHOULD be further ahead with this than the Magic at this point.

The 4 most valuable franchise pieces for us right now are Dipo, Payton, Gordon and Vucevic. Two of them are rookies and one is a sophomore. It's going to take some time. It's an incredibly young roster with very little experience. Conversely, the Jazz have much more invested in Favors and Hayward, guys who are entering their 5th season. If any team "has to show something" it's the Jazz, specifically those two (specifically Hayward who didn't improve last year). They should be further along. It might be harder out West, but yeah.

Both teams should make strides. But I've never for a second looked at the 2014-15 season as a year where the Magic needed to make huge improvements. Hell, I wanted us to stand pat so we could struggle through another season as we gain more experience.

hugepatsfan
07-15-2014, 04:44 PM
I don't quite think the Magic have to show a ton of growth. At least not as much as Utah. The Magic are younger and earlier into their rebuild. Again, the Jazz SHOULD be further ahead with this than the Magic at this point.

The 4 most valuable franchise pieces for us right now are Dipo, Payton, Gordon and Vucevic. Two of them are rookies and one is a sophomore. It's going to take some time. It's an incredibly young roster with very little experience. Conversely, the Jazz have much more invested in Favors and Hayward, guys who are entering their 5th season. If any team "has to show something" it's the Jazz, specifically those two (specifically Hayward who didn't improve last year). They should be further along. It might be harder out West, but yeah.

Both teams should make strides. But I've never for a second looked at the 2014-15 season as a year where the Magic needed to make huge improvements. Hell, I wanted us to stand pat so we could struggle through another season as we gain more experience.

Dude, you didn't even know Joe Johnson played SF instead of SG last year. STFU, trying to act like you know basketball.

KnicksorBust
07-15-2014, 04:58 PM
Dude, you didn't even know Joe Johnson played SF instead of SG last year. STFU, trying to act like you know basketball.

I'm pretty sure not knowing Joe Johnson's designated position on the perimeter is a perma-ban. Somebody please check the bylaws. Nice knowing you ManRam.

5ass
07-15-2014, 05:29 PM
The six points on two-of-six shooting along with three assists against three turnovers Monday was a reality check after the (over)hyped showing the night before in his debut. The potential is undeniable, but there are going to be a lot of days like this.
From NBA.com on Dante Exum

dhopisthename
07-15-2014, 05:38 PM
From NBA.com on Dante Exum



Dante Exum, Utah Jazz | Grade: B
Don’t let the uninspiring stat line 6-and-2 fool you. Exum was quick and decisive in the pick-and-roll, looking more like a veteran practitioner than the “unknown entity” he was labeled as leading up to the draft. While there weren’t nearly as many flashy displays as there was in his debut, Exum showed tonight that there’s some steak with his sizzle. --Foster


http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/69724/las-vegas-summer-league-day-4-grades

5ass
07-15-2014, 05:43 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/69724/las-vegas-summer-league-day-4-grades

that's because they hyped him up so much coming in, they're slowly back tracking. Just saying, I'm not being a biased homer here, people are starting to see the over-hype. He's a project. Just as much of a project as Gordon or very close.

dhopisthename
07-15-2014, 05:45 PM
that's because they hyped him up so much coming in, they're slowly back tracking. Just saying, I'm not being a biased homer here, people are starting to see the over-hype. He's a project. Just as much of a project as Gordon.

everyone knew he was a project. he just turned 19

5ass
07-15-2014, 05:52 PM
everyone knew he was a project. he just turned 19

Would you not agree people were expecting him to be more advanced at both ends of the court? Some people were talking about him going top 3, like he has just as much potential at becoming a superstar as Wiggins, Embiid and Parker.
I'm just saying that as it looks right now, Gordon over Exum for the Magic isn't a horrible mistake that will ruin their future like people are making it out to be. I know I'm somewhat trashing Exum, but I'm just being honest. I like his potential though, and i dont think he'll be a bust at all.

DR_1
07-15-2014, 06:11 PM
Magic. I think Exum has bust potential and I like a future lineup of Payton/Oladipo/Harris/Gordon/Vucevic.

Spanklin
07-16-2014, 11:11 AM
I don't quite think the Magic have to show a ton of growth. At least not as much as Utah. The Magic are younger and earlier into their rebuild. Again, the Jazz SHOULD be further ahead with this than the Magic at this point.

The 4 most valuable franchise pieces for us right now are Dipo, Payton, Gordon and Vucevic. Two of them are rookies and one is a sophomore. It's going to take some time. It's an incredibly young roster with very little experience. Conversely, the Jazz have much more invested in Favors and Hayward, guys who are entering their 5th season. If any team "has to show something" it's the Jazz, specifically those two (specifically Hayward who didn't improve last year). They should be further along. It might be harder out West, but yeah.

Both teams should make strides. But I've never for a second looked at the 2014-15 season as a year where the Magic needed to make huge improvements. Hell, I wanted us to stand pat so we could struggle through another season as we gain more experience.

The Jazz are ONE season into a rebuild. WTF you talkin bout?

Spanklin
07-16-2014, 11:14 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/69724/las-vegas-summer-league-day-4-grades

Solid find. Keep in mind that Exum has had a hard time assisting to SL players with small hands. He's been making very impressive passes that are getting fumbled out of bounds by no name players. His A:T will go way up when put with real players.

This miss by Orlando will go down as one of the most laughable draft blunders of all time. "40% from 3 vs 40% from free throw" That's what they'll call it.

RLundi
07-16-2014, 12:08 PM
Solid find. Keep in mind that Exum has had a hard time assisting to SL players with small hands. He's been making very impressive passes that are getting fumbled out of bounds by no name players. His A:T will go way up when put with real players.

This miss by Orlando will go down as one of the most laughable draft blunders of all time. "40% from 3 vs 40% from free throw" That's what they'll call it.

First bold is a shameless attempt at being an apologist. If you're going to blame players with small hands, you're on a slippery slope to blaming players for not being tall enough. Have you watched summer league games? Exum had a nice first game but he's struggled since. He's quite raw at this point. So blaming other players for his own shortcomings is merely a shift of blame, and a poor one at that. I think he'll be a stud eventually though but in the interim, please stop making excuses.

Second bold, I disagree with. I think Exum will be the far better scorer, probably a better player and maybe the better franchise cornerstone. But Gordon will be a good player. His hustle, motor and defense alone will make him a serviceable utility man. Granted, that's not what you shoot for with a top 5 pick, but he's literally 18 years old. Give the man a little time to progress for the love of god lol. I wanted Exum, I won't lie, but I hardly think this will be a historical draft blunder.

ManRam
07-16-2014, 12:18 PM
Dude, you didn't even know Joe Johnson played SF instead of SG last year. STFU, trying to act like you know basketball.

:laugh:

ManRam
07-16-2014, 12:22 PM
The Jazz are ONE season into a rebuild. WTF you talkin bout?

That's one way of looking at it. I guess you can say the true rebuild started after the Jazz let Millsap and Jefferson walk for nothing. That's fair. I tend to think that when you trade your franchise superstar you inherently enter a rebuild. You did make the playoffs in 2012, so that's fair to dub the "rebuild" starting later...but we knew transition was coming the second Deron left.

The Magic have a younger roster.
The Magic are less removed from losing their star.

That's how I look at it :shrug: Regardless of when the rebuild started, the fact remains. I don't think the Magic are a team that has to take a huge step forward when 3/4ths of their hopeful core are rookies and sophomores. I don't think the Jazz have to either, but again, the players they team has invested in are much older on average.

5ass
07-16-2014, 12:44 PM
Solid find. Keep in mind that Exum has had a hard time assisting to SL players with small hands. He's been making very impressive passes that are getting fumbled out of bounds by no name players. His A:T will go way up when put with real players.

This miss by Orlando will go down as one of the most laughable draft blunders of all time. "40% from 3 vs 40% from free throw" That's what they'll call it.

Man Exum needs to work his *** off in the next year just to be as good as Payton now. 40% from 3? Lol he can't even hit open shots consistently yet. Maybe 40% fg next year. Hell, the guy can't even play an NBA game yet because his conditioning is so poor. He was about to pass out of exhaustion after like less than 10 straight minutes on the court.
Small hands... lol okay
I like our moves, and in time, people will give Hennigan props just like they did with the Dwight trade, oladipo pick and jj redick trade. They all doubt him in the beginning, but when its all said and done he comes out on top.
really? His teammates have small hands? That's your explanation? Hahaha. I think you should get banned for saying **** like that

Spanklin
07-16-2014, 02:14 PM
First bold is a shameless attempt at being an apologist. If you're going to blame players with small hands, you're on a slippery slope to blaming players for not being tall enough. Have you watched summer league games? Exum had a nice first game but he's struggled since. He's quite raw at this point. So blaming other players for his own shortcomings is merely a shift of blame, and a poor one at that. I think he'll be a stud eventually though but in the interim, please stop making excuses.

This might come across as a good argument to someone who hasn't watched Somogyi, Gobert, Thomas, and Murphy fumble clean passes out of bounds. Those of us who watched the games see your blanket dismissal and failure to read what I wrote in context as grasping at straws.

Whatever. Either way time will tell. You're free to thump your chest over your boy while dissing Exum for no other reason than your team passed on him. Sounds petty to me, but I'm not a fan of either franchise so maybe I'm missing some deep rivalry or something.

Spanklin
07-16-2014, 02:16 PM
Man Exum needs to work his *** off in the next year just to be as good as Payton now. 40% from 3? Lol he can't even hit open shots consistently yet. Maybe 40% fg next year. Hell, the guy can't even play an NBA game yet because his conditioning is so poor. He was about to pass out of exhaustion after like less than 10 straight minutes on the court.
Small hands... lol okay
I like our moves, and in time, people will give Hennigan props just like they did with the Dwight trade, oladipo pick and jj redick trade. They all doubt him in the beginning, but when its all said and done he comes out on top.
really? His teammates have small hands? That's your explanation? Hahaha. I think you should get banned for saying **** like that

Elfrid looked real good in game 2 was it?

Yes, Exum needs to discover the treadmill. 3 minutes in last night I found myself wondering if Australia somehow sits 2000 feet below sea level. However, it says a lot about how good he's going to be that he can still play at that high a level while gassed. Imagine how much better he'll look when he's in shape to make plays for 35 mpg.

5ass
07-16-2014, 02:30 PM
Elfrid looked real good in game 2 was it?

Yes, Exum needs to discover the treadmill. 3 minutes in last night I found myself wondering if Australia somehow sits 2000 feet below sea level. However, it says a lot about how good he's going to be that he can still play at that high a level while gassed. Imagine how much better he'll look when he's in shape to make plays for 35 mpg.

Except he's not really playing at a high level, he's making a lot of mistakes, and its summer league. He'll have a much harder time in the regular season. They're also paying him in short stretches.
Elfrid looked bad in game one, but looked good in all others. I think he had two near triple doubles, and an 18-5-5. He's leading the summer league in APG.
Elfrid showed he can hang, Exum showed he needs a lot of work on his game. You can see my assessment of exum a few pages back, and leave a comment.

5ass
07-16-2014, 02:37 PM
This might come across as a good argument to someone who hasn't watched Somogyi, Gobert, Thomas, and Murphy fumble clean passes out of bounds. Those of us who watched the games see your blanket dismissal and failure to read what I wrote in context as grasping at straws.

Whatever. Either way time will tell. You're free to thump your chest over your boy while dissing Exum for no other reason than your team passed on him. Sounds petty to me, but I'm not a fan of either franchise so maybe I'm missing some deep rivalry or something.

He had a bunch of bad passes. They weren't all clean at all.
except he's not dissing him for that reason, Exum so far is proving to be more hype than game. He's not actually dissing him either. He's telling it like it is.

RLundi
07-16-2014, 06:11 PM
This might come across as a good argument to someone who hasn't watched Somogyi, Gobert, Thomas, and Murphy fumble clean passes out of bounds. Those of us who watched the games see your blanket dismissal and failure to read what I wrote in context as grasping at straws.

Whatever. Either way time will tell. You're free to thump your chest over your boy while dissing Exum for no other reason than your team passed on him. Sounds petty to me, but I'm not a fan of either franchise so maybe I'm missing some deep rivalry or something.

Blanket statements? How so? The truth is if you continue to absolve players of responsibility, where does it end? Your argument is essentially summed up as "he would be a much better player if he had better teammates." It's nonsense. Stop making excuses. End of story.

"Failure to read what I wrote" is irony at its finest. Did you read what I wrote? That Exum will be a stud, and more than likely a better player, scorer and cornerstone? If that's your idea of a "diss," it must be so cumbersome and just a terror to talk to you in person, what with the amount of eggshell-walking one would have to do.

And props for the originality in your (flawed) argument. Straw man? Really? I see you've gone the overused and squarely unoriginal PSD route of dismissing every argument as straw man. It's tired and it's overused. Maybe do some research on logical fallacies, so that you don't misapply and misuse the only one I imagine you know.

SILVER SEAVER
07-16-2014, 06:17 PM
What difference does it make which of those teams will become better quicker....when their best players become free agents they will all leave. See Carlos Boozer, Deron Williams, Shaq and Dwight Howard. The days of Duncan, Malone and Stockton are gone where drafted players in smaller markets will either spend their entire career with one team or almost like Malone did before he sold out to vulcher a championship ring with the Lakers.

SILVER SEAVER
07-16-2014, 06:19 PM
If you put my feet to the fire I would have to say Orlando faster but there will be no longevity of success.

Spanklin
07-16-2014, 07:52 PM
He had a bunch of bad passes. They weren't all clean at all.
except he's not dissing him for that reason, Exum so far is proving to be more hype than game. He's not actually dissing him either. He's telling it like it is.

You saw a completely different game than I did (the Professionals who were commentators have been raving about him too) so nothing more can be said. I do get that you're a fan of the team who passed on him and now feel obligated to hate on him though.

@ RLundi - building a straw man [to burn down] is not the same as grasping at straws lol. Anyway, you sound like the type who blames pitchers when the catchers drop perfectly placed pitches. I don't get your line of reasoning at all.

5ass
07-16-2014, 08:00 PM
You saw a completely different game than I did (the Professionals who were commentators have been raving about him too) so nothing more can be said. I do get that you're a fan of the team who passed on him and now feel obligated to hate on him though.

@ RLundi - building a straw man [to burn down] is not the same as grasping at straws lol. Anyway, you sound like the type who blames pitchers when the catchers drop perfectly placed pitches. I don't get your line of reasoning at all.
You get nothing, I'm judging him off three games. Not just one. Some sports writers are in agreement with me, you can check back a few pages.

5ass
07-16-2014, 08:03 PM
NBC sports

Here.
Btw he finished with more turnovers than assists on the last game. Solid first half though.

*Superman*
07-16-2014, 10:41 PM
Just a Pro AM mix of Gordon, but his passing and dribbling looked really nice. Wish we saw some of this in Summer League.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5YWifmbedY

5ass
07-16-2014, 11:09 PM
Just a Pro AM mix of Gordon, but his passing and dribbling looked really nice. Wish we saw some of this in Summer League.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5YWifmbedY

he did show some of that. I specifically remember a couple spin moves and a crossover.

Lo Porto
07-17-2014, 12:23 AM
The Jazz are ONE season into a rebuild. WTF you talkin bout?

Jazz were in the playoffs two years ago. That's TF he's talking about.

Just keep passing on the Jazz. We will see. Throwing a bunch of athletes on a team doesnt make them a promising basketball team. Without being in the eastern conference, Orlando would be a laugher.

Utah did the nice but dumb thing by hiring Corbin. He couldn't coach. Well, player development is pretty darn important and you need a coach who will invest in it.

The Jazz will be better. I have no doubt. They have all the pieces needed along with the depth. They will make a run at the playoffs this year but will probably fall just short.

Lo Porto
07-17-2014, 12:30 AM
Exum hasn't played competitive ball in 9 months and some of you want to call him a bust after three summer league games (where a majority of analysis have said that be looks like he has a ton of potential and he can play).

So guys - stop posting bust about guys who haven't even had a fall camp. Go back to your couch, hit start and go back to playing your video games. Mom will have your meatloaf ready shortly.

mavwar53
07-17-2014, 12:31 AM
Jazz will be better but won't make the playoffs cause they are in the west.

5ass
07-17-2014, 12:37 AM
Jazz were in the playoffs two years ago. That's TF he's talking about.

Just keep passing on the Jazz. We will see. Throwing a bunch of athletes on a team doesnt make them a promising basketball team. Without being in the eastern conference, Orlando would be a laugher.

Utah did the nice but dumb thing by hiring Corbin. He couldn't coach. Well, player development is pretty darn important and you need a coach who will invest in it.

The Jazz will be better. I have no doubt. They have all the pieces needed along with the depth. They will make a run at the playoffs this year but will probably fall just short.

and i commend your positivity, but Gordon, Oladipo and Payton are much more than just athletes. For me, I'd take the Magic's roster over the Jazz no question. Atleast when we're not scoring we'll have our team defense to fall back on. Can't say the same about the Jazz. I think in the West the play offs are a long shot next year. Exum isnt looking like he will contribute. Kanter and Favors have to take major steps forward. They looked bad together last season. Didnt they go something like 5-25 when starting together?

5ass
07-17-2014, 12:41 AM
Exum hasn't played competitive ball in 9 months and some of you want to call him a bust after three summer league games (where a majority of analysis have said that be looks like he has a ton of potential and he can play).

So guys - stop posting bust about guys who haven't even had a fall camp. Go back to your couch, hit start and go back to playing your video games. Mom will have your meatloaf ready shortly.

There was only one person that has called him a bust. So instead of saying "some of you", go ahead and call him out. Most people here arent saying that.
For me, his conditioning raises questions about his work ethic as well. How are you going to come into SL with everything to prove coming in as a foreign pick with such poor conditioning? It was embarrassing... the commentators were laughing at him.

rhymeratic
07-17-2014, 07:47 AM
This is a tough one and good one. I'm going to exclude conferences for this. Gun to my head I trust the Jazz talent over the Magic. Only because Jazz have the better front court players in Favors + Kanter. But like someone said before they should be further along in the process.

futureman
07-17-2014, 12:48 PM
There actually was a report like an hour before the draft from a credible source that jazz were going to take Gordon at 5

Only because they thought Exum wasn't going to be there. Thank you Orlando for giving us Exum. The arena just erupted when Orlando took Gordon instead of Exum. There was nobody mad that Gordon was gone and that's a fact.

futureman
07-17-2014, 12:54 PM
Summer league doesn't even matter.

Fact: The 2013 Summer League MVP Ian Clark, couldn't even get off the bench last year.

Fact: Trey Burke Stunk in the Summer League and Finished 3rd in ROY rankings.

Fact: Anthony Randolph who scored 40 points in Summer League isn't even in the NBA now.

People who think Summer league play means anything, don't understand basketball at all.

Sportfan
07-17-2014, 12:54 PM
I don't think either will be contenders with the current core

Spanklin
07-17-2014, 01:24 PM
Just a Pro AM mix of Gordon, but his passing and dribbling looked really nice. Wish we saw some of this in Summer League.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5YWifmbedY

Any freethrows in this highlight video?

D-Leethal
07-17-2014, 01:49 PM
Prime example of "building through the draft" and getting nowhere because you didn't luck into that 1 surefire superstar that pops its head every 2-3 years.

They won't be any good until they get extremely lucky one of these years (Jazz going on what - 6 years now trying to get lucky in the lotto?) or they trade all the role players they drafted in the top 10 over the past half-decade for someone who is actually a guy who can carry a team.

D-Leethal
07-17-2014, 01:52 PM
Its not even like these guys drafted poorly. You can draft well and get nowhere because there simply ain't enough studs in any given draft class to go around to the 6-8 teams who are tanking to "build through the draft".

*Superman*
07-17-2014, 01:59 PM
Just a Pro AM mix of Gordon, but his passing and dribbling looked really nice. Wish we saw some of this in Summer League.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5YWifmbedY

Any freethrows in this highlight video?

His shooting isn't there, we already know that. For a few Magic fans that desperately want to see him be a 4, this was refreshing and a bit unexpected to see. As long as he keeps adding these kind of skills to his game, I'm fine with the Gordon pick.

Philly Hammer
07-17-2014, 02:32 PM
I don't think neither team will amount to much of anything now, and in the long run.

*Superman*
07-17-2014, 03:41 PM
Only because they thought Exum wasn't going to be there. Thank you Orlando for giving us Exum. The arena just erupted when Orlando took Gordon instead of Exum. There was nobody mad that Gordon was gone and that's a fact.

A crowd reaction means nothing. People were mad Orlando drafted Dwight over Oakfor in the 2004 draft. See how that worked out? Nothing has been played out yet.

5ass
07-17-2014, 05:13 PM
Summer league doesn't even matter.

Fact: The 2013 Summer League MVP Ian Clark, couldn't even get off the bench last year.

Fact: Trey Burke Stunk in the Summer League and Finished 3rd in ROY rankings.

Fact: Anthony Randolph who scored 40 points in Summer League isn't even in the NBA now.

People who think Summer league play means anything, don't understand basketball at all.

Let's hope that's true. Let's hope he'll bring it all together better in the regular season, hopefully just working on his conditioning improves his overall game. I evaluated him on those summer league games, with the understanding that its way too early to draw definitive conclusions. I don't know why so many jazz fans are getting pissed. Maybe because everything I said is true? Relax guys, you can and should criticize your own players. Stop trying to take shots at magic fans or the magic, forget I'm a magic fan for a second. You might think I'm waiting on Exum to fail, but I would be ecstatic to see the second coming of Penny IF he can do that.
Gordon and Payton over Exum and saric/mcbuckets is looking like the right choice for the magic SO FAR. For several reasons:
A. Exum was underwhelming
B. Payton was very good
C. Gordon is showing more than what some people were expecting. For example, his ball handling and passing was a nice surprise.

That being said, how this will play out in the future is still an unknown.