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east fb knicks
07-14-2014, 01:46 AM
I think the cavs have a nice young team and should hold on to their assets

wiggins could end up being a lot better than love

he can also be somebody lbj passes the team to when he starts declining

Raps08-09 Champ
07-14-2014, 01:51 AM
Yes. Rubio-Wiggins fast break.

Leftcoast_yg
07-14-2014, 02:07 AM
If im the cabs No, Minnesota yes

Leftcoast_yg
07-14-2014, 02:08 AM
Cabs because they send their players to the airport more than any other team.

NYKNYGNYY
07-14-2014, 02:15 AM
Meh idk I think they leave it up to lebron...if they get love better chance at winning sooner I really don't know... Wiggins although unlikely could wind up to be a bust...love is proven

abe_froman
07-14-2014, 02:17 AM
if love promises to sign and extension,yes.love-lebron-irving is a champ favorites type of team for the next 3-4 years

east fb knicks
07-14-2014, 02:18 AM
Meh idk I think they leave it up to lebron...if they get love better chance at winning sooner I really don't know... Wiggins although unlikely could wind up to be a bust...love is proven
that's true too if wiggins ends up a bust the cavs will take a lot of heat for not making the trade if they trade wiggins and he's a beast same thing lmao

east fb knicks
07-14-2014, 02:20 AM
if love promises to sign and extension,yes.love-lebron-irving is a champ favorites type of team for the next 3-4 years

they'd be heavy favorites in the east but in the west they'd probably be the 3rd or 4th best team

abe_froman
07-14-2014, 02:25 AM
they'd be heavy favorites in the east but in the west they'd probably be the 3rd or 4th best team

and? they wouldnt be going through all of those teams,they'd only have to care about one of them

Nikeman
07-14-2014, 02:28 AM
In short, yes.

If the Cavs can get Love and keep Tristan Thompson and Waitors and get Love for Wiggins and Bennett, they are the NBA title favorites for the rest of LeBrons prime provided they stay healthy.

Kyrie- 22
Waitors- 22
LeBron- 29
Love- 25
Anderson V- 31

Bench:

TT- 23
Ray Allen/Mike Miller??

Add a couple vet min depth pieces and they have such a large championship window.

raiderposting
07-14-2014, 02:39 AM
^ pretty much this. If they can get love for wiggins and sadly a filler in Bennett they should do it.

All they need is too sign a vet pg ring chasing. Get mike miller. A back up big and they are coming out the east 4 years in a row. Honestly I see them coming out the east without trading for love too. They just have a better shot to beat a team in the west with Irving/Lebron/love this year

FOXHOUND
07-14-2014, 03:17 AM
Absolutely. When you draft a player like Wiggins 1st overall you do it hoping he can develop into the caliber of player that Kevin Love is... so why not take question out of the equation and go get a 25-year old star who Wiggins would be lucky to match in ability? LeBron is 30, you don't want to waste years for Wiggins to develop, he's way too raw and who knows how he'll end up next to ball dominant players like LeBron and Irving.

*Silver&Black*
07-14-2014, 03:21 AM
If you want Lebron to bring a title to Cavs in the next year or 2, you need to get him some immediate help. I think Cavs is just focused on finally getting a championship, so the future can wait.

east fb knicks
07-14-2014, 03:52 AM
and? they wouldnt be going through all of those teams,they'd only have to care about one of them

I guess but what sense does it make it to always get to the finals just to lose to the spurs lmao

east fb knicks
07-14-2014, 03:57 AM
here is an alternative you keep wiggins and bennet and just sign love or m gasol or lma in 2015 if im not mistaken the cavs will have cap in 2015 and if not wiggins can be the future and ntm you keep depth or maybe move bennet and waiters in a smaller deal dude went number 1 for a reason i'd atleast give him a chance to play before I make that deal love lbj irving is no guarantee for a title not enough defense in that lineup ntm the cavs would be capped out only having exceptions to use with little depth

ice_c
07-14-2014, 04:10 AM
Kevin Love's fans have always stated that Love never won because he never had a healthy roster to support him. Well, the Wolves were healthy this season and they were below .500 for the majority of the season and finished the season below .500. This is with a $12 million center, a Euro superstar, an excellent scorer in KMart, and a terrific defender in Brewer.

The next level of defense for Love is that the Wolves didn't have a deep enough bench to contend. The Blazers didn't have a very deep bench either and yet still managed to eke out 54 regular season wins.

Not to mention the Wolves had an excellent coach in Adelman as well.

Love is all out of excuses. Yes, he does put up monster stats in scoring and rebounding. But he's not a very good defender and he's a poor passer. He's a stats first guy (only certain stats), and he is certainly not a first option on a contender. I'm not even confident that he's a great 2nd option on a contender.

==

Wiggins otoh, is an absolute freak. The sky's the limit for this kid. I would absolutely rather have Wiggins locked up on a rookie contract and let him develop under the tutelage of the best player in the game.

I don't have a prediction for Wiggins' rookie year stats, but playing in the east, and being mentored by lebron will certainly aid in his development.

Wiggins and LBJ paired together will be amazing.

AIverson
07-14-2014, 04:13 AM
Yeah, you gotta make that Trade.

Big 3
Kyrie 22
Love 25
Lebron 29

You could have a Spurs like run with the championship window they would have. This deal is going to get done. There's just no way cavs can blow this.

east fb knicks
07-14-2014, 04:16 AM
Kevin Love's fans have always stated that Love never won because he never had a healthy roster to support him. Well, the Wolves were healthy this season and they were below .500 for the majority of the season and finished the season below .500. This is with a $12 million center, a Euro superstar, an excellent scorer in KMart, and a terrific defender in Brewer.

The next level of defense for Love is that the Wolves didn't have a deep enough bench to contend. The Blazers didn't have a very deep bench either and yet still managed to eke out 54 regular season wins.

Not to mention the Wolves had an excellent coach in Adelman as well.

Love is all out of excuses. Yes, he does put up monster stats in scoring and rebounding. But he's not a very good defender and he's a poor passer. He's a stats first guy (only certain stats), and he is certainly not a first option on a contender. I'm not even confident that he's a great 2nd option on a contender.

==

Wiggins otoh, is an absolute freak. The sky's the limit for this kid. I would absolutely rather have Wiggins locked up on a rookie contract and let him develop under the tutelage of the best player in the game.

I don't have a prediction for Wiggins' rookie year stats, but playing in the east, and being mentored by lebron will certainly aid in his development.

Wiggins and LBJ paired together will be amazing.

your right about love except their center missed a big chunk of the year but idk about love he's my 2nd fav player but until he gets to the playoffs the jury is out on him but I agree with you on wiggins lbj is teaching him the game that alone is gonna be huge

Oefarmy2005
07-14-2014, 10:21 AM
Here is the reality - Love will not go to Cleveland as a UFA. The guy wants a big market and a big deal - and he'll get something similar at GS, LA, Boston, Chicago - e.t.c. Now, if the Cavs trade for him, they would have bird rights on Love and the extra year that nobody in the league would be able to offer. In any case, when are people going to realize that KLove is a top 7 player and a generational talent is some facets of the game. In reality, if you wait for Wiggins to develop you loose 2, maybe 3 years of Lebron's prime and he is not a spring chicken anymore. In any case, just taking a step back from being a Wolves fan - I absolutely do it if I am Cleveland. Love fits really well next to Lebron as a stretch 4. As a Wolves fan, I prefer Thompson, Lee and whatever if it's an option at some point and avoid a full rebuild.

P.S. Besides Pek, Buddinger missed most of the season and he was supposed to be a big part of the Wolves last year. Add to that Adelman's reluctance to play young players such as Bazz and Dieng and playing Barea and Cunningham 25-30 minutes per game and you get the season the Wolves has last year. People do remember that they were top 5, maybe even 3 in point differential last year and lost 12-15 games by 4 points or less?

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
07-14-2014, 10:32 AM
I think it's a no brainer and a perfect scenario I don't see Minnesota getting a better trade package then something like waiters Thompson and Wiggins probably picks for K.Love and K.Martin

Kyrie
Martin
Bron
Love
AV

Rubio
Waitors
Wiggins
Thompson
Pek

I'd love to see it for both sides actually but I kind of don't want it to happen because it will put the Cav above a lot of teams, and right now I feel like the NBA is even and competitive again. I wish the Knicks could somehow get love to help out melo and keep the east Balanced

WSU Tony
07-14-2014, 10:43 AM
If Lebron was 27... Keep Wiggins. Lebron is now 30. You have to be in "win now" mode over the next 3-4 years. You will never be able to get Lebrons youth back once he starts to decline.

What happens if the Cavs keep Wiggins and come up short for the title for the next 3-4 years. Is that worth it to stay "competitive" with Wiggins after Lebron declines? This is a go all in league. With the super teams being built you have no choice but to stack all your chips on a few year window and go for it.

This league allows you to go for it now or build for later - you can't have the luxury of both. The Celtics had their run now they're depleted. Same with the Heat. Many of us thought the Spurs were aging out but they really surprised us this year. I still don't think the youngsters will be replacing what Duncan, Manu, and Parker have done over the past decade.

You have the luxury of going for 4-5 titles. Embrace the spot your in and win. Stop worrying about years 6...7....8...

LOOTERX9
07-14-2014, 10:50 AM
easily yes trade wiggins. cavs would be idiots if they dont and lebron should leave after next season. wasting lebron's prime developing a young player is idiotic. cavs will get beat in playoffs with this young team. cavs add love and they become favs in east easily. cavs are stupid not to trade wiggins for love

likemystylez
07-14-2014, 10:54 AM
Kevin Love's fans have always stated that Love never won because he never had a healthy roster to support him. Well, the Wolves were healthy this season and they were below .500 for the majority of the season and finished the season below .500. This is with a $12 million center, a Euro superstar, an excellent scorer in KMart, and a terrific defender in Brewer.

The next level of defense for Love is that the Wolves didn't have a deep enough bench to contend. The Blazers didn't have a very deep bench either and yet still managed to eke out 54 regular season wins.

Not to mention the Wolves had an excellent coach in Adelman as well.

Love is all out of excuses. Yes, he does put up monster stats in scoring and rebounding. But he's not a very good defender and he's a poor passer. He's a stats first guy (only certain stats), and he is certainly not a first option on a contender. I'm not even confident that he's a great 2nd option on a contender.

==

Wiggins otoh, is an absolute freak. The sky's the limit for this kid. I would absolutely rather have Wiggins locked up on a rookie contract and let him develop under the tutelage of the best player in the game.

I don't have a prediction for Wiggins' rookie year stats, but playing in the east, and being mentored by lebron will certainly aid in his development.

Wiggins and LBJ paired together will be amazing.

The west is pretty tough though. Infact it was insane. lets put it this way- any western conference team that made the playoffs would have given the spurs a far better series than the top team out of the west. Take a gander at the first round- the worst playoff team in the west took the spurs to a close game 7.

If you make the playoffs in the west- You are basically a contender for a championship- so the twolves finishing a few games shy doesnt mkean they were that bad. In reality they are prob a better team than Toronto or chicago

LongIslandIcedZ
07-14-2014, 11:06 AM
I don't think I would.

RLundi
07-14-2014, 11:11 AM
I'd keep Wiggins. He'll develop into a stud and Cleveland's championship window could be 10 years instead of 5. Cavs don't need scoring, they need defense. Love is an awful defender, but Wiggins has the chance to be elite.

Kevin Love doesn't put Cleveland over the top. Yes, he's a sexy name and people always love novelty but they aren't winning anything this year regardless. Next year they have a better chance and Wiggins may make a huge leap on both sides of the ball.

If I'm Grant, I wait on Wiggins.

SLY WILLIAMS
07-14-2014, 11:26 AM
If it is just those 2 in the trade you do it right away. Love at 25 is more valuable than any unknown in last years draft. You have those 3 legit players that is enough to give the Cavs a shot at their first 2 championships in a long history.

LOOTERX9
07-14-2014, 11:30 AM
I'd keep Wiggins. He'll develop into a stud and Cleveland's championship window could be 10 years instead of 5. Cavs don't need scoring, they need defense. Love is an awful defender, but Wiggins has the chance to be elite.

Kevin Love doesn't put Cleveland over the top. Yes, he's a sexy name and people always love novelty but they aren't winning anything this year regardless. Next year they have a better chance and Wiggins may make a huge leap on both sides of the ball.
If I'm Grant, I wait on Wiggins.

yall are crazy to not trade wiggins. love makes cavs title contender and east fav. cavs will deserve to lose lebron again after a yr or two if they dont add another star. love wants to be there so do it! wiggins can only dream of being the player love is at moment

Dee_Edge
07-14-2014, 11:48 AM
I think question is will Wolves take or want Wiggins and my guess is no...

Dee_Edge
07-14-2014, 11:51 AM
I think it's a no brainer and a perfect scenario I don't see Minnesota getting a better trade package then something like waiters Thompson and Wiggins probably picks for K.Love and K.Martin

Kyrie
Martin
Bron
Love
AV

Rubio
Waitors
Wiggins
Thompson
Pek

I'd love to see it for both sides actually but I kind of don't want it to happen because it will put the Cav above a lot of teams, and right now I feel like the NBA is even and competitive again. I wish the Knicks could somehow get love to help out melo and keep the east Balanced

...this is the best bet...but a bit of a stretch...to many question marks for a known star...

FOXHOUND
07-14-2014, 12:09 PM
Gotta defend Love on the record, it really was their poor bench play. Love had a +/- of +356, +6.1 per 48 minutes. The Wolves outscored the opposing team with him on in 43 of his 76 games. The entire start of five had a good +/-.

Rubio +381, +6.9/48
Love +356, +6.1/48
Brewer +334, +6.1/48
Pekovic +276, +8.0/48
Martin +177, +3.9/48

WSU Tony
07-14-2014, 12:10 PM
I will never understand how a team in win now mode with a 30 year old superstar would want to "develop" anything. Not trading potential for a known star is silly. I'm sorry you're already attached to Wiggins. Even if Wiggins in 3-4 year turns into a star if the Cavs have 1-2 championships it was STILL a good trade.

Cleveland fans after drafting lebron and now winning the lottery like they have been (over and over) feel entitled. They not only want to win now but they want to build for the future.

Spread yourself too thin and you might fall short in the finals... again....and again... You can remember the last time, right? Why not do it the right way this time and set yourself up to actually win the thing...

likemystylez
07-14-2014, 12:11 PM
Yeah, you gotta make that Trade.

Big 3
Kyrie 22
Love 25
Lebron 29

You could have a Spurs like run with the championship window they would have. This deal is going to get done. There's just no way cavs can blow this.

warriors still have first choice. if the warriors make klay available- they get love

kingkenny01
07-14-2014, 12:13 PM
how many teams can really trade for love maybe boston, chicago, cleveland, golden state and maybe a few others im forgetting, rest of the nba don't have assets for kevin love won't resign, but the twolves are getting blackballed golden state wont trade klay thompson and cleveland wont trade andrew wiggins, someone has to cave before the trade deadline because love will be traded

likemystylez
07-14-2014, 12:15 PM
I will never understand how a team in win now mode with a 30 year old superstar would want to "develop" anything. Not trading potential for a known star is silly. I'm sorry you're already attached to Wiggins. Even if Wiggins in 3-4 year turns into a star if the Cavs have 1-2 championships it was STILL a good trade.

Cleveland fans after drafting lebron now winning the lottery like they have been feel entitled. They not only want to win now but they want to build for the future.

Spread yourself too thin and you might fall short in the finals... again....and again... You can remember the last time, right? Why not do it the right way this time and set yourself up to actually win the thing...

A) They might think of wiggins as more than just a young player with potential- they might think hes a multiple mvp candidate in the future

B) they might think they can get the deal done without him, but it it might take more time

C) they might question whether kevin love really puts them over the top

D) They might believe in their power forwards of thompson and bennet enough so that they dont think its worth losing wiggins


for the record, id make the deal and get it done before golden state finds a way to take him off the market. LOL ironically, the warriors are in a similar position to the cavs

likemystylez
07-14-2014, 12:17 PM
how many teams can really trade for love maybe boston, chicago, cleveland, golden state and maybe a few others im forgetting, rest of the nba don't have assets for kevin love won't resign, but the twolves are getting blackballed golden state wont trade klay thompson and cleveland wont trade andrew wiggins, someone has to cave before the trade deadline because love will be traded

I think they figure that love will be traded- so theres no point in caving. I actually think itd be best for the twolves to make a move before the season starts- I think the players knowing love will be moved (and likely along with another player or 2)- it will basically cost them the season because the distraction will be to big to really accomplish anything. The west is tough enough as it is- and if the twolves want to be competitive... they have enough problems with their talent, theres no point in adding any extra obstacles

slashsnake
07-14-2014, 12:26 PM
warriors still have first choice. if the warriors make klay available- they get love

Not sure, between Klay and Wiggins, I might lean to Wiggins, and not sure Golden State would give up Klay if Love wouldn't sign long term there, which if he favored Cleveland, he might.

Yes, if I am Cleveland I do everything I can to keep Wiggins and get Love. If that isn't possible, then I move Wiggins. He might be an NBA all star/MVP candidate, top 40 all time guy. But Love is a top player today, and it would be hard to spend Lebron's prime bringing Wiggins along.

And honestly, if I am Minnesota, I hold out for Wiggins, if that isn't happening, then hold out for Klay, if that isn't happening, well, I would really think of holding on to Love for his last year there.

FlashBolt
07-14-2014, 12:39 PM
How do you develop Wiggins when you have LeBron, Kyrie, and Waiters all fighting for the ball and the fact that Wiggins would be playing backup perhaps? Unless you put LeBron at the PF (which is stupid because Tristan is more than serviceable) or C (which is also stupid because Varejao is a good player), I don't see why Cleveland wants Wiggins. They still have two years of Waiters so he's going to be there for the meantime. Tristan on the other hand has 1 year left on his contract.

Cleveland trades Tristan, Wiggins, and Bennett for Love contingent that Love signs a long term deal? Don't see how they can lose on this. Wiggins = Unproven. Bennett = looks skinnier and more mobile but still unproven. Tristan Thompson = expiring contract. Don't think they need them as much as they need Love.

With Cleveland's 1st round protected, that is much more valuable than some people think.

Love to Cleveland makes perfect sense.
PF- Love
C- Varejao
SG- Waiters
SF- LeBron
PG- Irving

Work on the bench a bit. Ray Allen, Mike Miller, Shawn Marion, Jermaine O'neal, Jimmer Fredette, Mo Williams? Surely they can make something work over here.

GeronimoSon
07-14-2014, 12:43 PM
Two things..

1. What's the rush?.. Kevin Love's value to either the GSW or Cavs will continue to decline as time goes on.. Kevin Love has made it clear to the Wolves that he's not returning.. The longer anyone waits, the less value the Wolves will be able to demand or get in return. From the start of the 2014/2015 NBA season, it appears that both teams will make the playoffs.. After each team has played a solid portion of the season, they can assess their needs.. Perhaps at that time the quality of what's being offered (Klay/Barnes or Wiggins/Bennett) can be clarified...

2. When it comes to what each of these teams need, both Golden State and Cleveland both need a rim protector more than they need a stretch four.. Does adding Kevin Love help.. Sure.. does adding Dieng to the mix help more.. sure.. what makes the most sense and when it makes the most sense is the issue..

There could also be "other teams" that would be interested in this deal.. perhaps even a three team deal. Waiting seems like the best course of action..

Riodagoat
07-14-2014, 12:46 PM
If I were Clevaland, of course I would try to get this deal done without including Wiggins first. Maybe Waiters Bennett and 2 picks. But if I have to give up Wiggins, I'd do it, but it wouldn't include TT in any deal.

futureman
07-14-2014, 01:06 PM
I don't think they should trade Wiggins but there is no way that Minnesota lets Love go for a bunch of junk.

JasonJohnHorn
07-14-2014, 01:25 PM
I think a deal with Waiters, Tristan and Bennet along with some picks should be enough to entice the T-Wolves.

To be perfectly honest, I think the Cavs should call up the Celtics and Minny and send out Irving with Waiters, Bennet and Tristan along with some picks and bring in Rondo and Love. I'm sure Boston would be happy to pick up Irving, and Minny can get Waiters, Bennet, Tristan and some draft picks from Cleveland and Boston and whoever Boston feels like sending to Minny.

Chi StateOfMind
07-14-2014, 01:26 PM
This is a really hard question that I'm sure the Cavs have thought over a million times. It obviously can go two ways; 1.) Keep Wiggins and let him develop into that star player Cleveland wants him too. 2.) Trade him for an All-Star proven player.

The big thing is that if you hang onto him and he doesnt pan out then Cavs FO takes a huge negative feedback. If he does pan out then its all good but how good will be?

If I'm the Cavs I trade him, I don't make that same mistake like last time without getting LBJ help.

rhymeratic
07-14-2014, 01:36 PM
Cavs shouldn't trade ANYBODY. I would roll with Lebron and the roster exactly as is now. Lets see how they are by all-star break.

PG Irving
SG Waiters
SF Lebron
PF Thompson
C Vareajo

Bench
SG/SF 6th Wiggins
SF/PF Bennett

Rest of bench doesn't even matter

You don't know which of these lottery guys is gonna explode. For all we know Anthony Bennett turns into the second coming of Larry Johnson... I'm starting to believe in his game.

FlashBolt
07-14-2014, 01:49 PM
Cavs shouldn't trade ANYBODY. I would roll with Lebron and the roster exactly as is now. Lets see how they are by all-star break.

PG Irving
SG Waiters
SF Lebron
PF Thompson
C Vareajo

Bench
SG/SF 6th Wiggins
SF/PF Bennett

Rest of bench doesn't even matter

You don't know which of these lottery guys is gonna explode. For all we know Anthony Bennett turns into the second coming of Larry Johnson... I'm starting to believe in his game.

And if Wiggins sucks, his value drops. Better to trade him now. Not like he's going to be a 20/5/5 player right off the bat. Especially with James on this team, doubt he gets much playtime.

Confusious
07-14-2014, 01:49 PM
Easily make that trade. We would still have Waiters/TT/Bennett so our depth is still intact.

likemystylez
07-14-2014, 02:01 PM
Cavs shouldn't trade ANYBODY. I would roll with Lebron and the roster exactly as is now. Lets see how they are by all-star break.

PG Irving
SG Waiters
SF Lebron
PF Thompson
C Vareajo

Bench
SG/SF 6th Wiggins
SF/PF Bennett

Rest of bench doesn't even matter

You don't know which of these lottery guys is gonna explode. For all we know Anthony Bennett turns into the second coming of Larry Johnson... I'm starting to believe in his game.

ehh cavs role players are being over valued- compared to warriors role players. all those guys couldnt get into the playoffs in the east. THe warriors dance team girls likely get into the playoffs in the east

likemystylez
07-14-2014, 02:03 PM
Not sure, between Klay and Wiggins, I might lean to Wiggins, and not sure Golden State would give up Klay if Love wouldn't sign long term there, which if he favored Cleveland, he might.

Yes, if I am Cleveland I do everything I can to keep Wiggins and get Love. If that isn't possible, then I move Wiggins. He might be an NBA all star/MVP candidate, top 40 all time guy. But Love is a top player today, and it would be hard to spend Lebron's prime bringing Wiggins along.

And honestly, if I am Minnesota, I hold out for Wiggins, if that isn't happening, then hold out for Klay, if that isn't happening, well, I would really think of holding on to Love for his last year there.

Love named the warriors as a place hed like to sign long term with about 5 or 6 weeks ago. warriors and bulls are still his first choice. Hed prefer to stay on the west coast and get away from the cold weather

east fb knicks
07-14-2014, 02:05 PM
I'd keep Wiggins. He'll develop into a stud and Cleveland's championship window could be 10 years instead of 5. Cavs don't need scoring, they need defense. Love is an awful defender, but Wiggins has the chance to be elite.

Kevin Love doesn't put Cleveland over the top. Yes, he's a sexy name and people always love novelty but they aren't winning anything this year regardless. Next year they have a better chance and Wiggins may make a huge leap on both sides of the ball.

If I'm Grant, I wait on Wiggins.

omg bro that's exactly what im thinking why not keep the kid and trade Thompson and waiters or bennet for somebody else maybe millsapp and the cavs should have cap in 2015 also it's more or less do the cavs need love that bad if they somehow get love with out giving up wiggins they should do that

imo I don't think the wolves are trading love this year I predict the wolves are going to make the playoffs and a team like Portland might miss it

pebloemer
07-14-2014, 02:14 PM
Wiggins on a rookie scale for 4 years, plus the ability to re-up him long-term afterwards is more valuable than Love in my opinion. Kevin Love is an exceptional player and would help them more in the short term, but the long-term gains are huge for Cleveland, along with the ability to put the money differential to other pieces around LeBron/Wiggins/Irving.

If Cleveland is to make a big deal, it would be because the supporting cast around those three aren't working.

LOOTERX9
07-14-2014, 02:17 PM
clev will make same mistake as before by not adding another star with lbj now. kyrie is there but they need another star too. rookie wiggins is no star yet. he is very unpolished and cavs will be wasting lbj prime yrs for nothing. plus once wiggins gets good he may leave cleve to go elsewhere himself..hahahaha

LOOTERX9
07-14-2014, 02:23 PM
[QUOTE=pebloemer;28791640]Wiggins on a rookie scale for 4 years, plus the ability to re-up him long-term afterwards is more valuable than Love in my opinion. Kevin Love is an exceptional player and would help them more in the short term, but the long-term gains are huge for Cleveland, along with the ability to put the money differential to other pieces around LeBron/Wiggins/Irving.

If Cleveland is to make a big deal, it would be because the supporting cast around those three aren't working.[/
QUOTE]

no love = no title for cleve or lebron.
why are yall clev fans hoping wiggins turns out to be next lebron in 3 yrs when yall have lebron himself on the team now.smh yall cavs fans are comical. love gives yall best chance in playoffs . dont waste time hoping wiggins turns out to even the level player that love is on. its foolish to do on clev part

Vee-Rex
07-14-2014, 02:30 PM
I'd wait.

Go for a 3-way trade and explore other possibilities in acquiring Love or other big men. If it comes down to the trade deadline and there are absolutely no other options, trade Wiggins for Love. Otherwise, stick it out. At the deadline Minnesota could buckle and trade Love w/o getting Wiggins back.

I don't know why people think you absolutely need a big 3 to win the finals these days. A strong big two with a strong supporting cast + teamwork + coaching could do it. Cavs will be patient, only idiots suggest rushing it.

MrfadeawayJB
07-14-2014, 04:33 PM
I think the cavs have a nice young team and should hold on to their assets

wiggins could end up being a lot better than love

he can also be somebody lbj passes the team to when he starts declining


Agreed not to mention he will be relatively cheap for 4 years

ellisgw
07-14-2014, 09:23 PM
if you don't trade wiggins for kevin love, you either don't want to win championships or clueless about basketball.

ellisgw
07-14-2014, 09:26 PM
let's just waste 4 years of lebron's prime and wait for wiggins who was not even the best nba prospect on his college team. This sounds like a genius plan to me.

RB#20
07-14-2014, 09:40 PM
If I were the Wolves I would trade Love for the Cavs entire draft. For the next 5 years. Better than trading for Wiggins who isn't going to re-sign with Minnesota after his contract expires anyway. In 5 years.

The Cavs have a chance to rebuild the Showtime Lakers team with Wiggins, Bron, Kyrie and crew. Should be fun to watch. Although I think Jabari Parker was the best player in the entire draft and will turn the Bucks into a contender, I think Wiggins is a better fit on the Cavs.

Arch Stanton
07-14-2014, 09:50 PM
Just as an FYI David Griffin is the GM of the Cavs not Chris Grant. Grant was fired in February. I've seen some poster refer to Grant as the GM.

JordansBulls
07-14-2014, 09:51 PM
I think the cavs have a nice young team and should hold on to their assets

wiggins could end up being a lot better than love

he can also be somebody lbj passes the team to when he starts declining

No. They should keep Wiggins and trade Lebron instead.

3ballbomber
07-14-2014, 09:57 PM
No. They should keep Wiggins and trade Lebron instead.

yep, trade lebron for love and you'll have a player less likely to bolt when things get a little scary :clap:

ice_c
07-14-2014, 10:11 PM
if you don't trade wiggins for kevin love, you either don't want to win championships or clueless about basketball.

Love's best record with Minn is 40 and 42, and this is with a healthy team including Rubio, Peko, Kmart and Corey Brewer, a very solid starting 5. He has yet to crack .500 as a first option.

In addition to that, Love is not a very good defender, and probably never will be. He's just shy of 6'8," with an average wing span. He's a poor matchup against taller PF's with an above average reach such as Anthony Davis, LMA, Tim Duncan, Chris Bosh, Garnett and Pau Gasol.

Love can fill a stat sheet, but I'm high on Wiggins' potential. His athleticism is surreal. At the very least he can be an elite defender. But he has the physical skills to be a 20+ ppg scorer in addition. Wiggins can be a fantastic two way player in the nba. Love cannot.

Add to that, Wiggins is on a rookie deal for 4 years, whereas Love would ask for the max. Keep wiggins, and use the extra $15-$17 million to recruit another free agent PF or retain flexibility to recruit someone else. Even w/out an elite free agent signing next season, Irving, Wiggins and Lebron offer a combination of youth and veteran leadership which you just can't pass on.

I think Love would benefit from playing in the east, but you have to ask yourself how valuable he really is if he can't even lead a team to a .500 record, much less to a playoff spot.

RB#20
07-14-2014, 10:13 PM
No. They should keep Wiggins and trade Lebron instead.

Should trade Wiggins for Stephenson then Lance can blow LeBron 82 games a year.

east fb knicks
07-14-2014, 10:57 PM
Should trade Wiggins for Stephenson then Lance can blow LeBron 82 games a year.

:laugh:

Nikeman
07-14-2014, 11:09 PM
So there is an Insider article on ESPN, says many NBA execs say to keep Wiggins over love.

Interesting

Slim Tubby
07-14-2014, 11:19 PM
I think Cavs and Wolves fans would both agree this deal is dead without Wiggins. Time to move on.

Nikeman
07-14-2014, 11:22 PM
This article nails it:

http://www.ohio.com/sports/cavs/cavaliers-nba-executives-debate-trading-andrew-wiggins-for-kevin-love-1.504459?localLinksEnabled=false&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed


One of the most polarizing debates among front-office executives at summer league is what the Minnesota Timberwolves should do with Kevin Love and how aggressively the Cavs should pursue him.
The Timberwolves have made it clear they won’t deal Love to the Cavs for anything less than top overall pick Andrew Wiggins. The Cavs, in turn, have dug in their heels at this point and declared him off-limits.
It’s a July poker game. All of the cards don’t have to be revealed now anyway.

“There’s no reason or cause for worry on his part because Andrew’s not going anywhere, as far as I know and as far as the club has expressed,” Cavs coach David Blatt told reporters recently.
Wiggins was asked if he has any concerns over being traded, but a Cavs media relations official cut off the question and didn’t allow him to answer it.

One rival Eastern Conference executive said it’s too soon to trade Wiggins until the Cavs learn whether he can play shooting guard between Irving and LeBron James. “LeBron [James] and Kyrie [Irving] will handle the bulk of the scoring,” he said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of trade talks. “If Wiggins can score, leave the other guys like Andy [Varejao] and Tristan [Thompson] to do the dirty work.” The front-office executive is high on Thompson and likes the way his game has steadily improved. He believes Thompson can overcome his defensive deficiencies and that simply James’ presence will go a long way in teaching Thompson how to defend.

He believes Thompson can thrive this season simply by running the floor and rebounding and thinks Thompson will continue to develop a shooting touch.Others disagree. A second executive from a different team believes the Cavs made a mistake by choosing Wiggins over Jabari Parker, and if the Timberwolves are open to dealing Love for Wiggins, the Cavs should act quickly.
“He’s soft and he can’t shoot,” the executive said of Wiggins. “Parker is the better player. Make that deal today.” The Timberwolves are believed to value Wiggins more than Parker, who went second to the Milwaukee Bucks. One executive predicted the Cavs, as currently constructed, could win 60 games next season simply with the addition of James and the wide-open Eastern Conference. He pointed to the leap the Cavs made when James was a rookie. They won 35 games that year, more than double the 17 victories the season before his arrival. “[The Cavs] were awful,” the executive said. “[They had] Z [Zydrunas Ilgauskas] and a young [Carlos] Boozer, but look at everyone else on that team: Darius Miles, Ricky Davis, Kevin Ollie. … LeBron carried them to 35 wins as a 19-year-old.”

The Timberwolves, according to sources, are willing to be patient in these trade talks. They believe the teams in pursuit of Love, including the Cavs and the Golden State Warriors, may not be as good now as those teams think they are and will ultimately meet their price — Wiggins from the Cavs or Klay Thompson from the Warriors. The Cavs discussed a Love trade with the Timberwolves before the draft, but refused to include the No. 1 pick at the time. That was before they knew for certain James was returning. The scenario has obviously changed now.

Another complication in a proposed Love-for-Wiggins trade is making the money match under the salary cap, since Wiggins will be on a rookie scale deal and Love is due to earn nearly $16 million. But no one polled this week in Las Vegas believes that will be a stumbling block. A third team could be included, one executive offered, to make the money work.

Wiggins has yet to sign his contract with the Cavs. Once he does, he can’t be traded for 30 days under league rules.The wild card in all of this, of course, is James. All executives and coaches polled believe if James wants Love, the Cavs will make whatever deal is necessary to obtain him. Love is only 25, after all, and is reportedly amenable to signing long term in Cleveland now that James has returned.
But James was in Brazil over the weekend for the World Cup and has believed to have had minimal contact with the Cavs since releasing his letter announcing his return home.

For now, the Cavs, Warriors and Timberwolves have formed a triangular staredown that could drag all the way into training camp and beyond.

Nikeman
07-14-2014, 11:23 PM
Basically, that article states, its LeBron James' decision. If he wants Kevin Love, the Cavs will trade Wiggins for him, and if LeBron doesn't want Love, or doesn't care, I think Wiggins stays.

mohye
07-14-2014, 11:26 PM
Yes

prodigy
07-14-2014, 11:29 PM
Wolves have very little power here. They have to trade him or he walks for nothing. Love just needs to say he will only sign an extension with cavs. GS would then back out. Not sure he would do that.

LOOTERX9
07-14-2014, 11:38 PM
cavs with no love can get beat by bulls, pacers, or even miami in playoffs. wiggins is not ready for that playoff run yet. you add love and heat become favs to win title now. so holding wiggins is just pure idiotic and backwards thinking on cavs part. lebron will leave after one 2nd round exit after this.

ZamboniCub
07-14-2014, 11:49 PM
anyone who said no is wrong.

/thread

jakedajewler
07-15-2014, 12:02 AM
if they want a dynasty for years to come they won't trade wiggins dude will be a stud, mark it down

0nekhmer
07-15-2014, 12:23 AM
Wiggins' value right now is at an all time high, the moment he steps on the regular season court and starts making mistakes, that value will plummet so fast. For a proven superstar, who's worth multiple prospects and picks, cavs would be dumb not to do this trade.

east fb knicks
07-15-2014, 12:23 AM
if they want a dynasty for years to come they won't trade wiggins dude will be a stud, mark it down

lmao right dude kinda was just the number 1 pick atleast give him a year people act like he was a 2nd rounder he went 1 in the whole draft lmao im pretty sure teams know why wiggins parker embiid literally had teams tanking on some historic shyt and people just wanna trade him lmao

Trwood12
07-15-2014, 12:24 AM
I as a wolves fan want this trade to happen. My only concern is that if Wiggins does end up in Minnesota, they could squander his potential. They don't exactly have a knack for developing players.

JustinTime
07-15-2014, 12:25 AM
if they want a dynasty for years to come they won't trade wiggins dude will be a stud, mark it down

They should trade Wiggins it's not like he's going to stay in Cleveland. Lets be real here he's going home with Bennett as soon as their contracts expire. The Cavs introduced Wiggins as "Mitchell Wiggins" to the organization and then their Gm went on to talk about how he was involved in several trade talks while he was sitting right beside him. Now he's been discussed in the Love deal and despite Cleveland's promise he won't be traded they still haven't signed him. Wiggins will leave the Cavs for sure they have already messed up any long-term future with him.

east fb knicks
07-15-2014, 12:26 AM
I as a wolves fan want this trade to happen. My only concern is that if Wiggins does end up in Minnesota, they could squander his potential. They don't exactly have a knack for developing players.
they just developed kevin love he's pretty good:D

east fb knicks
07-15-2014, 12:28 AM
Basically, that article states, its LeBron James' decision. If he wants Kevin Love, the Cavs will trade Wiggins for him, and if LeBron doesn't want Love, or doesn't care, I think Wiggins stays.

if it's up to lbj wiggins will stay I think wiggins was a bigger reason lbj went to the cavs than irving```

Trwood12
07-15-2014, 12:28 AM
they just developed kevin love he's pretty good:D
Love is an oddity. The FO treated him like crap and he still came out alright. It makes me wonder how good he could be if he was mentored by veteran superstars and people who actually thought he had potential.

DillyDill
07-15-2014, 12:30 AM
if it's up to lbj wiggins will stay I think wiggins was a bigger reason lbj went to the cavs than irving```

I hope Wigg stays he has the perfect mentor to grow and become a Super Duper Star

JustinTime
07-15-2014, 12:34 AM
Love is an oddity. The FO treated him like crap and he still came out alright. It makes me wonder how good he could be if he was mentored by veteran superstars and people who actually thought he had potential.

Love's stats are very inflated too because T-wolves are an awful team. I'm actually surprised how highly people think of him considering this. Minnesota's main play unintentionally or intentionally is to shoot a brick and have love put it back so of course he'll put up godly numbers.

KnicksorBust
07-15-2014, 12:35 AM
The list of big men who could rebound, pass, and shoot like Kevin Love is outrageously small considering the amount of players that have played this game. Guys like Sabonis, Garnett, Dirk come to mind... lesser skilled players like Laimbeer, Divac, Brad Miller... but imagine pairing one of them with LeBron? You are giving the best player in the world all the space he needs to carve up a defense. He and Love would be the best offensive duo the NBA has seen since Magic and Kareem. And we all know how that worked out... yet people actually would rather pass on the trade in the HOPES that Wiggins becomes...what? An all-nba player like Kevin Love ALREADY IS CURRENTLY. It makes no sense. Even if you are convinced that Wiggins is going to be that good...how would ever reach those heights playing with two players who are at their best with the ball in their hands? Kyrie Irving is going to have to adjust to playing more off the ball. When you combine LeBron's usage and Kyrie's usage than Wiggins is going to be limitted to mostly fastbreaks and spot-up shooting. That's not how you get the most out of your #1 pick. That role can easily be filled by a two dozen different role palyers floating around the NBA right now. I'd rather see Danny Green at SG than an underaged Andrew Wiggins. Sure, maybe that sounds crazy. Maybe Wiggins is an all-nba player. But why risk it?

Trwood12
07-15-2014, 12:36 AM
Love's stats are very inflated too because T-wolves are an awful team. I'm actually surprised how highly people think of him considering this. Minnesota's main play unintentionally or intentionally is to shoot a brick and have love put it back so of course he'll put up godly numbers.
It also helps when you have a pass first point guard like Rubio by your side. And not to mention being forced to play ridiculous minutes because your bench is so ******.

InRoseWeTrust
07-15-2014, 12:46 AM
Love's stats are very inflated too because T-wolves are an awful team. I'm actually surprised how highly people think of him considering this. Minnesota's main play unintentionally or intentionally is to shoot a brick and have love put it back so of course he'll put up godly numbers.

Love's stats aren't inflated. He put up elite efficiency numbers, while still scoring in bulk, while being the only good player on a bad team. He had a .591 TS% last year. That number is insanely high considering his supporting cast.

JustinTime
07-15-2014, 12:46 AM
It also helps when you have a pass first point guard like Rubio by your side. And not to mention being forced to play ridiculous minutes because your bench is so ******.

I've never been big on Love but if you guys manage to fool the Cavs into giving Bennett, Wiggins and picks than good for you. That would be robbery.

IKnowHoops
07-15-2014, 12:56 AM
No!!!!!!!!!!! Keep Wiggins!!!!!!!!!!!!! For many reasons. Besides the fact that the Cavs have 3x the talent they had when Bron won 66 games with them, the cap hit that love would command would give them no ability to have good depth. 3max deals is to much. Ride with Bron and Kyrie for the Max's and then use the rest for depth.

IKnowHoops
07-15-2014, 01:02 AM
The list of big men who could rebound, pass, and shoot like Kevin Love is outrageously small considering the amount of players that have played this game. Guys like Sabonis, Garnett, Dirk come to mind... lesser skilled players like Laimbeer, Divac, Brad Miller... but imagine pairing one of them with LeBron? You are giving the best player in the world all the space he needs to carve up a defense. He and Love would be the best offensive duo the NBA has seen since Magic and Kareem. And we all know how that worked out... yet people actually would rather pass on the trade in the HOPES that Wiggins becomes...what? An all-nba player like Kevin Love ALREADY IS CURRENTLY. It makes no sense. Even if you are convinced that Wiggins is going to be that good...how would ever reach those heights playing with two players who are at their best with the ball in their hands? Kyrie Irving is going to have to adjust to playing more off the ball. When you combine LeBron's usage and Kyrie's usage than Wiggins is going to be limitted to mostly fastbreaks and spot-up shooting. That's not how you get the most out of your #1 pick. That role can easily be filled by a two dozen different role palyers floating around the NBA right now. I'd rather see Danny Green at SG than an underaged Andrew Wiggins. Sure, maybe that sounds crazy. Maybe Wiggins is an all-nba player. But why risk it?

So knowing this you think its smart to tie up max money with another guy who isn't ever going to be able to duplicate what he's done on a garbage team?

JustinTime
07-15-2014, 01:24 AM
Love has never even played a complete season either that guy is always injured.

LOOTERX9
07-15-2014, 02:06 AM
if they want a dynasty for years to come they won't trade wiggins dude will be a stud, mark it down

this is crazy. what dynasty? cavs are not winning title in next 3 yrs with this young version of wiggins. by the time wiggins is a top 5 player lbj will be on the downside. and clev may win zero titles. you must make love trade. he is only 25 yrs old and fits lbj perfectly. why develop wiggin when you got lebron there already. cavs fans are being greedy. greed in this case will be cavs downfall

LOOTERX9
07-15-2014, 02:12 AM
Love has never even played a complete season either that guy is always injured.

so lbj joined wade even though he has missed tons of games even before lbj got to the heat. the heat sucked with wade for couple yrs. love give cavs best chance at titles immediately. wiggins doesn't, he is a project. I like wiggins upside but lbj cant wait for him to develop. dont bring lbj to cavs if ya not gonna give him love and force him to play with rookies and sophmores. its a waste .

LOOTERX9
07-15-2014, 02:17 AM
I hope Wigg stays he has the perfect mentor to grow and become a Super Duper Star

so cavs bought in lebron as a vet just to mentor all these young unproven players? really? so yall people really rather cavs be mediocre for 3 yrs and then compete for titles? why do that when you can bring love in and maybe win title next season? the logic in this thread is giving me a headache

LOOTERX9
07-15-2014, 02:27 AM
No!!!!!!!!!!! Keep Wiggins!!!!!!!!!!!!! For many reasons. Besides the fact that the Cavs have 3x the talent they had when Bron won 66 games with them, the cap hit that love would command would give them no ability to have good depth. 3max deals is to much. Ride with Bron and Kyrie for the Max's and then use the rest
for depth.

yall are acting like the cavs were in the playoffs in the pathetic east last yr. the cavs suck hard. bringing in just lbj will only make the compete for playoffs. but bring in love and lbj then you compete for titles. why cant people use logic for a second. even if wiggins turns out to be better than love in 4 yrs it will be too late cause lbj will be older and who knows how kyrie will hold up with injuries. yall are crazy to hold wiggins for love. its a no brainer trade in my book and i really like wiggins

ice_c
07-15-2014, 05:47 AM
The list of big men who could rebound, pass, and shoot like Kevin Love is outrageously small considering the amount of players that have played this game. Guys like Sabonis, Garnett, Dirk come to mind...

Unfortunately, despite his stellar individual statistics, Kevin Love has never made the playoffs. The best record any of his teams has had is 40W 42L.

In any event, your comparisons don't make any sense. Garnett and Dirk are NBA champions. Even before leaving for boston, Garnett played in the WCF. Love has yet to lead a team to even a .500 record.

ellisgw
07-15-2014, 07:46 AM
How many stupid people are on here?

I would trade wiggins in a heartbeat.

Byronicle
07-15-2014, 08:19 AM
Honestly, I rather trade Irving and save the depth then to trade Wiggins and the bench for Love

Irving and Love play bad defense. They all need the ball to be effective. Having 2 ball dominant handlers in Irving and James is enough, now you are going to add a third? They need refined support players, i.e. veterans, not another star.

Gasol, Nash, Howard and Kobe worked REALLY well together didn't they?

twin4life
07-15-2014, 09:17 AM
Honestly, I rather trade Irving and save the depth then to trade Wiggins and the bench for Love

Irving and Love play bad defense. They all need the ball to be effective. Having 2 ball dominant handlers in Irving and James is enough, now you are going to add a third? They need refined support players, i.e. veterans, not another star.

Gasol, Nash, Howard and Kobe worked REALLY well together didn't they?


That is a horrible comparison. lol

Your second paragraph is confusing me a bit. So your saying they need veterans over another star? correct? Which would you rather have
A. Kevin Love (current star and only 25)
B. Andrew Wiggins (future star?? potential)
C. "Veterans" not sure what you can get with their cap space.

IMO if the Cavs wanna compete for a championship now A. is the only option.

zn23
07-15-2014, 09:17 AM
Absolutely...

Oefarmy2005
07-15-2014, 09:23 AM
Love's stats are very inflated too because T-wolves are an awful team. I'm actually surprised how highly people think of him considering this. Minnesota's main play unintentionally or intentionally is to shoot a brick and have love put it back so of course he'll put up godly numbers.

Sorry, this in not the Wolves of 2011 we are talking about. Clearly you haven't watched a game in a long time.

Oefarmy2005
07-15-2014, 09:26 AM
Love's stats aren't inflated. He put up elite efficiency numbers, while still scoring in bulk, while being the only good player on a bad team. He had a .591 TS% last year. That number is insanely high considering his supporting cast.

I'm sorry man, but I don't understand how a fan of any team in the east calls the Wolves a bad team. They were 40-42 playing against mostly WCF opponents - now where would that put them in the east? Not to mention they lost 12-15 games by 4 pts or less and just underperformed last year all around. The Wolves are not a bad team team anymore - mediocre, sure, but not bad.

WSU Tony
07-15-2014, 09:34 AM
I hope the Cavs make the decision to keep Wiggins then come up short for the next 4-5 years. That'd be hilarious. Lebron in Cleveland 2.0

prodigy
07-15-2014, 09:36 AM
I think it's a no brainer and a perfect scenario I don't see Minnesota getting a better trade package then something like waiters Thompson and Wiggins probably picks for K.Love and K.Martin

Kyrie
Martin
Bron
Love
AV

Rubio
Waitors
Wiggins
Thompson
Pek

I'd love to see it for both sides actually but I kind of don't want it to happen because it will put the Cav above a lot of teams, and right now I feel like the NBA is even and competitive again. I wish the Knicks could somehow get love to help out melo and keep the east Balanced

I would never do that if I'm cavs. That's a lot of young talent to give up for a guy who won't resign with wolves. Which means cavs could be bidding against themselfs.

dnl123
07-15-2014, 09:39 AM
This thread is tragic in so many ways. Love is a proven top 10 player in the NBA and he's 25 years old. He was behind only Lebron and Durant last year in offensive effectiveness according to advanced stats. To keep a rookie based on potential (even great potential) and pass up on a proven superstar entering his prime that perfectly compliments Lebron would be one of the stupidest things I've seen in a a long time by an organization, and make no mistake the Cavs aren't getting Love without Wiggins unless another team jumps in which wouldn't really make any sense. Also the whole stats being inflated argument is just utter nonsense. Love was the obvious focal point of the offense in MN and teams guarded him and played him as such, which would not be the case in other places with other star players.

Oefarmy2005
07-15-2014, 09:39 AM
I hope the Cavs make the decision to keep Wiggins then come up short for the next 4-5 years. That'd be hilarious. Lebron in Cleveland 2.0

I am with you. I am not saying getting Love next to Lebron and Kyrie = title, but it's definitely a better option than anything out there. Wiggins is just so raw - great tools, but he needs 2-3 years minimum. Even Lebron wasn't a beast in his first 2 years. Honestly, people think is a sure fire thing that if the Cavs offer Wiggins the Wolves will bite - from what I heard, Flip is not that big of a fan.

cheetos185
07-15-2014, 09:43 AM
Is love going to sign extension when lebron is only signed for 2 years?

prodigy
07-15-2014, 09:44 AM
I hope the Cavs make the decision to keep Wiggins then come up short for the next 4-5 years. That'd be hilarious. Lebron in Cleveland 2.0

I am with you. I am not saying getting Love next to Lebron and Kyrie = title, but it's definitely a better option than anything out there. Wiggins is just so raw - great tools, but he needs 2-3 years minimum. Even Lebron wasn't a beast in his first 2 years. Honestly, people think is a sure fire thing that if the Cavs offer Wiggins the Wolves will bite - from what I heard, Flip is not that big of a fan.

They had a trade in place centered around #1 pick for love awhile back. But love said he would not resign so cavs pulled offer. Before lebron of course.

KnicksorBust
07-15-2014, 11:49 AM
So knowing this you think its smart to tie up max money with another guy who isn't ever going to be able to duplicate what he's done on a garbage team?

Kevin Love's game and LeBron's games don't overlap at all. Also, Kevin Love and Andrew Wiggins games are wildly different as well. Love's game would mesh perfectly with Bron.

Love is a tremendous outlet passer which would allow Bron to get a ton of transition hoops.
Love can play the low post and is a tremendous pick and pop threat would which allow him to play a great 2-man game with LeBron.
Love, a power forward, is a better 3pt shooter than Wiggins, a shooting guard, which would space the floor better for LeBron when he needs to drive to the basket.

Love's game is more proven and a significantly better fit with their best player. That is EXACTLY the type of player you should be willing to become "cap strapped" for in Cleveland. Tell me what I said which is wrong. :)

hidalgo
07-15-2014, 12:23 PM
yes, they should definitely pull the trigger on that deal if it becomes an option. no brainer

AddiX
07-15-2014, 12:36 PM
I wouldn't, love is one of the worst defenders in the nba.

If you want to maximize brons value to the team, you want to put good perimiter defenders around him. When mia was at its best, they played insane perimiter d.

Love is like a walking free lane for easy layups. It legit looks like he moves out if the way sometimes.

Oefarmy2005
07-15-2014, 12:46 PM
I wouldn't, love is one of the worst defenders in the nba.

If you want to maximize brons value to the team, you want to put good perimiter defenders around him. When mia was at its best, they played insane perimiter d.

Love is like a walking free lane for easy layups. It legit looks like he moves out if the way sometimes.

If somebody else came up with this opinion - I'd listen. But since you are a known anti-Love troll - your arguments are invalid. In any case Addix, Kevin Love used to be a bad defender, now he is league average - look up some advanced stats. Now he is not a weak side shot blocker, but he is more than adequate positional defender and is quite decent defending PnR, which is player 85% of the time in the current NBA. His defensive rating is on par with Blake Griffin or Chris Bosh for example - who blocks some shots and is better than LMA. Once again, no Love is not a shot blocker, but he is a tremendous defensive re-bounder. He is league average in steals for a PF he just gets you 3-4 more DRB instead of 1 blocked shot. I'll reiterate, Kevin Love used to be a bad defender - he is very average now.

AddiX
07-15-2014, 12:55 PM
If somebody else came up with this opinion - I'd listen. But since you are a known anti-Love troll - your arguments are invalid. In any case Addix, Kevin Love used to be a bad defender, now he is league average - look up some advanced stats. Now he is not a weak side shot blocker, but he is more than adequate positional defender and is quite decent defending PnR, which is player 85% of the time in the current NBA. His defensive rating is on par with Blake Griffin or Chris Bosh for example - who blocks some shots and is better than LMA. Once again, no Love is not a shot blocker, but he is a tremendous defensive re-bounder. He is league average in steals for a PF he just gets you 3-4 more DRB instead of 1 blocked shot. I'll reiterate, Kevin Love used to be a bad defender - he is very average now.

Oh give it up..

You guys went from calling him a top 5 player, to begging for klay Thompson or a rookie + scraps...

Is it possible he's no where near as good as you guys try to build him up as, and the rest of the NBA sees that?

LOOTERX9
07-15-2014, 12:59 PM
cavs fans are greedy. wanting to keep wiggins and add love. thats not gonna happen so yall better just accept wiggins trade or else cavs aint winning any titles with that roster. playoff team yes. but can be beat by 3 other east teams and any west team in finals

krazylegz
07-15-2014, 01:03 PM
to answer your thread,in my opinion,nope

LOOTERX9
07-15-2014, 01:04 PM
Oh give it up..

You guys went from calling him a top 5 player, to begging for klay Thompson or a rookie + scraps...

Is it possible he's no where near as good as you guys try to build him up as, and the rest of the NBA sees that?

wolves would have made playoffs easily in pathetic east. so the whole never been in playoff thing is non issue. cavs are bringing love in not to be the main guy. love will be 2nd or 3rd option which is perfect for cavs. melo needs to be in a similar role also and not be the sole main guy for a team

LOOTERX9
07-15-2014, 01:06 PM
to answer your thread,in my opinion,nope

well then nope to cavs having any chance of winning a title and making it harder to get out the east

Oefarmy2005
07-15-2014, 01:11 PM
Oh give it up..

You guys went from calling him a top 5 player, to begging for klay Thompson or a rookie + scraps...

Is it possible he's no where near as good as you guys try to build him up as, and the rest of the NBA sees that?

We, Wolves fans, haven't been calling for anything. And yes, he is >>>> then Klay Thompson or Wiggins+crap. Unfortunately, when a player publicly states that he is walking the first chance he gets, the Wolves loose some leverage. I am a huge Love basher, I have bashed him year in and year out, but eventually I had to give in - he is that good. Advanced stats, game film, respect of his game by the league all confirm that. I still think he is a douche off the court, whines too much on the court - but he is a great player and a future HOFer. In any case, just stepping away from being a Wolves fan, I think the Cavs should trade for him because of Lebron's age and fit. As a Wolves fan, I could care less. My honest opinion, let him walk if you can't get something that I'd deem acceptable - I'd rather not sell him at all than sell him short. Flip loves Thompson, well good for him. Trust me, every Wolves fan knows that Love for Klay/Lee is selling him short, but that's the minimum I'd take - otherwise we are better off letting him walk than taking on garbage deals back.

AddiX
07-15-2014, 01:13 PM
Where's all these stars trying to team up with Kevin "the PSD great" Love?


I've yet to see or hear it. I haven't seen one player rush to go to minny to team up with him, and I've yet to see any player or tea, make a real push for him.

You guys are trying to call him a top 5 player while begging for freaking Klay Thompson. And GS and CLE are denying you guys! Shouldn't it be the other way around for a top 5 player?

Slade123
07-15-2014, 01:40 PM
If you make the playoffs in the west- You are basically a contender for a championship- so the twolves finishing a few games shy doesnt mkean they were that bad. In reality they are prob a better team than Toronto or chicago

Not really, seeing as Toronto split the games between Minnesota. The Raptors actually played very well against the west. They beat OKC the first time and lost by one point the second time.

Slade123
07-15-2014, 01:45 PM
wolves would have made playoffs easily in pathetic east. so the whole never been in playoff thing is non issue.

Of course it's an issue. They are in the west, not the east, and they haven't made the playoffs. That's a FACT! You can't just say "Oh we played in the West so we've automatically made it to the playoffs".

LOOTERX9
07-15-2014, 01:52 PM
Of course it's an issue. They are in the west, not the east, and they haven't made the playoffs. That's a FACT! You can't just say "Oh we played in the West so we've automatically made it to the playoffs".

yall gotta use perspective though. love in east would have made playoffs by now. plus cavs are not bringin him in to be the lead guy. love would be a #2 or #3. cavs need to do this

Oefarmy2005
07-15-2014, 01:56 PM
Where's all these stars trying to team up with Kevin "the PSD great" Love?


I've yet to see or hear it. I haven't seen one player rush to go to minny to team up with him, and I've yet to see any player or tea, make a real push for him.

You guys are trying to call him a top 5 player while begging for freaking Klay Thompson. And GS and CLE are denying you guys! Shouldn't it be the other way around for a top 5 player?

First off "where're." Stars is plural. Second - pretty sure stars didn't line up to go to Minnesota when KG was there either - are you going to knock KG next? Third - nobody has claimed his is a top 5 player, top 10 - for sure, top seven even, never top 5. Fourth - I didn't see any stars lineup to play with Dirk, or Melo or any other random star player not named Lebron. In any case - good job sir, you've trolled and I've responded. I am done.

LOOTERX9
07-15-2014, 01:57 PM
Where's all these stars trying to team up with Kevin "the PSD great" Love?


I've yet to see or hear it. I haven't seen one player rush to go to minny to team up with him, and I've yet to see any player or tea, make a real push for him.

You guys are trying to call him a top 5 player while begging for freaking Klay Thompson. And GS and CLE are denying you guys! Shouldn't it be the other way
around for a top 5 player?

i think lebron is gonna force clev to trade for love even it includes wiggins in deal so lebron is one person that wants to play with love.

Oefarmy2005
07-15-2014, 01:58 PM
yall gotta use perspective though. love in east would have made playoffs by now. plus cavs are not bringin him in to be the lead guy. love would be a #2 or #3. cavs need to do this

Cavs don't need to do this, but the should do this. They can just hold onto Wiggins. In the really long term it may be the right play, in the Lebron-term KLove is a no-brainer.

AddiX
07-15-2014, 02:00 PM
The best free agent minny got the entire time love was there, was martin.

No one in the nba cares about love.

JustinTime
07-15-2014, 02:05 PM
Cavs don't need to do this, but the should do this. They can just hold onto Wiggins. In the really long term it may be the right play, in the Lebron-term KLove is a no-brainer.

Hate to break the Cavs dream but Wiggins will not stay in Cleveland or Minnesota.

JustinTime
07-15-2014, 02:09 PM
Kevin Love gm's played per season

2008 81
2009 60
2010 73
2011 55
2012 18
2013 77

He's worth Bennett and a couple picks that it.

twin4life
07-15-2014, 02:23 PM
Hate to break the Cavs dream but Wiggins will not stay in Cleveland or Minnesota.

Id take him for 7 years though...

I just laugh reading these threads. One clown saying no one in the nba cares about kevin love and then we got people saying Wiggins > Love and so on. I just want to point out a few things here.
1. LeBron most likely doesn't want to play with a bunch of young players that needs to be groomed. He wants to win and win NOW.
2. LeBron has a lot of control with the Cavs with the deal he signed. It remains to be seen if LeBron wants Love yet or not. (If it means losing LeBron would Cleveland still not trade Wiggins for Love???)
3. Cavs could really put the stop on trade rumors on Wiggins if they just sign him. Why hasnt this happened yet?

Please no responses from AddiX. I don't have time for your stupidness.

Hawkeye15
07-15-2014, 02:26 PM
Kevin Love gm's played per season

2008 81
2009 60
2010 73
2011 55
2012 18
2013 77

He's worth Bennett and a couple picks that it.

MIP in 2010-11, 2nd team all NBA in 2011-12, and 2013-14, best rebounder/shooter combo in history, ultra efficient scorer who is an elite passing big man.

Bennett and a couple of picks hahaha?

mmkay

twin4life
07-15-2014, 02:28 PM
Kevin Love gm's played per season

2008 81
2009 60
2010 73
2011 55
2012 18
2013 77

He's worth Bennett and a couple picks that it.



Bro, hook me up with WHATEVER your are on!!

JustinTime
07-15-2014, 02:30 PM
MIP in 2010-11, 2nd team all NBA in 2011-12, and 2013-14, best rebounder/shooter combo in history, ultra efficient scorer who is an elite passing big man.

Bennett and a couple of picks hahaha?

mmkay

Damn I meant to throw Waiters in that. Oh well I guess I'll get 20 hate reply now lol.

AddiX
07-15-2014, 02:32 PM
Minny was so desperate to get a good player to come to minny they gave roy and his broken knee a 2 yr deal, guaranteed.

Spare me the nonsense that teams and players think Kevin love is a star...

JustinTime
07-15-2014, 02:36 PM
Id take him for 7 years though...

I just laugh reading these threads. One clown saying no one in the nba cares about kevin love and then we got people saying Wiggins > Love and so on. I just want to point out a few things here.
1. LeBron most likely doesn't want to play with a bunch of young players that needs to be groomed. He wants to win and win NOW.
2. LeBron has a lot of control with the Cavs with the deal he signed. It remains to be seen if LeBron wants Love yet or not. (If it means losing LeBron would Cleveland still not trade Wiggins for Love???)
3. Cavs could really put the stop on trade rumors on Wiggins if they just sign him. Why hasnt this happened yet?

Please no responses from AddiX. I don't have time for your stupidness.

He doesn't have to sign anything after 4 though.

mjt20mik
07-15-2014, 02:36 PM
Love is an all-star. Wiggins has a boat load of potential, but the Cavs already have the best player in the world in Lebron with them that plays the same position.

I'd trade Wiggins, Waiters (cause he's basically an annoying team cancer) and fillers (or picks) for Love.

JustinTime
07-15-2014, 02:37 PM
Minny was so desperate to get a good player to come to minny they gave roy and his broken knee a 2 yr deal, guaranteed.

Spare me the nonsense that teams and players think Kevin love is a star...

I would take Chirs Bosh in his last year in Toronto over Kevin Love.

twin4life
07-15-2014, 02:38 PM
Minny was so desperate to get a good player to come to minny they gave roy and his broken knee a 2 yr deal, guaranteed.

Spare me the nonsense that teams and players think Kevin love is a star...

•If Roy reinjures his previously-injured knees this season, the second year of the contract becomes non-guaranteed, giving the T-Wolves the opportunity to release him without taking a cap hit in 2013/14.

They were protected. Just because it says guaranteed doesnt mean that it is for sure.

AddiX
07-15-2014, 02:40 PM
•If Roy reinjures his previously-injured knees this season, the second year of the contract becomes non-guaranteed, giving the T-Wolves the opportunity to release him without taking a cap hit in 2013/14.

They were protected. Just because it says guaranteed doesnt mean that it is for sure.

Oh so they kept him around as a mascot, I gotcha...

Hawkeye15
07-15-2014, 02:40 PM
Damn I meant to throw Waiters in that. Oh well I guess I'll get 20 hate reply now lol.

Minnesota won't, and shouldn't budge if Wiggins isn't in the trade.

Look, the whole notion that you can't lose a star player for nothing is so blown out of proportion. Fact is, if I am a GM, and I know my 25 year old, top 6 player in the league is leaving, I try and get something, but if all I am getting back are crappy prospects that will tie up the cap, and picks that are either protected for years, or in the late 20's, I probably let Love walk instead. Suck total **** for 2 years, get high draft picks, and start over. I have no interest in Bennett or Waiters, I don't see them as young talent or assets, and don't care for the picks Cleveland can provide.

Hawkeye15
07-15-2014, 02:42 PM
Minny was so desperate to get a good player to come to minny they gave roy and his broken knee a 2 yr deal, guaranteed.

Spare me the nonsense that teams and players think Kevin love is a star...

contradicting yourself regarding Love as usual.

Addix logic:

-constantly crap on Love for not winning
-fully admit that Rubio, the best player they have drafted in the Love tenure, sucks
-fully admit that the best FA they have brought in during the Love tenure, sucks

Which one is it dude?

AddiX
07-15-2014, 02:45 PM
contradicting yourself regarding Love as usual.

Addix logic:

-constantly crap on Love for not winning
-fully admit that Rubio, the best player they have drafted in the Love tenure, sucks
-fully admit that the best FA they have brought in during the Love tenure, sucks

Which one is it dude?

All of the above dude...

I remember quote clearly the entire minny forum saying this is the year love has to make playoffs, no kore excuses.

Alls I heard since, is excuses. Its not contradicting, things change...

Hawkeye15
07-15-2014, 02:48 PM
All of the above dude...

I remember quote clearly the entire minny forum saying this is the year love has to make playoffs, no kore excuses.

Alls I heard since, is excuses. Its not contradicting, things change...

there are no excuses, from the top to the bottom of the organization. But I can't pretend that Rubio regressing and Pek going down forever helped at all, or Adelman's reluctance to play Dieng over Dante ****ing Cunningham. Love has proven that he is not a #1 on a contender. But he sure as hell can be a nice #2 or 3.

You can't have it both ways. You can't bash an all NBA player for not winning when you then constantly bag on his help. You are basically arguing with yourself when you do that.

"He needs to win!, but his help sucks...."

twin4life
07-15-2014, 02:49 PM
Oh so they kept him around as a mascot, I gotcha...

They actually released him. Some people actually go by FACTS. Maybe learn about them!!

AddiX
07-15-2014, 02:52 PM
there are no excuses, from the top to the bottom of the organization. But I can't pretend that Rubio regressing and Pek going down forever helped at all, or Adelman's reluctance to play Dieng over Dante ****ing Cunningham. Love has proven that he is not a #1 on a contender. But he sure as hell can be a nice #2 or 3.

You can't have it both ways. You can't bash an all NBA player for not winning when you then constantly bag on his help. You are basically arguing with yourself when you do that.

"He needs to win!, but his help sucks...."

I think love sucks, and his team sucks, and the front office sucks.

I don't see whats so hard about that.

JustinTime
07-15-2014, 02:56 PM
Minnesota won't, and shouldn't budge if Wiggins isn't in the trade.

Look, the whole notion that you can't lose a star player for nothing is so blown out of proportion. Fact is, if I am a GM, and I know my 25 year old, top 6 player in the league is leaving, I try and get something, but if all I am getting back are crappy prospects that will tie up the cap, and picks that are either protected for years, or in the late 20's, I probably let Love walk instead. Suck total **** for 2 years, get high draft picks, and start over. I have no interest in Bennett or Waiters, I don't see them as young talent or assets, and don't care for the picks Cleveland can provide.

But your 25 year old star is injury prone, one of the leagues worst defenders, on a 1-year deal with no guarantee to resign in Cleveland, and had inflated numbers due to being the T-wolves only option. Waiters and Bennett both have all-star potential, yes that Bennett, so I can see why the Cavs are hesitant on Wiggins. As much as i'd love Wiggins and Bennett to be freed from James I don't see how Love gets you Wiggins as well.

twin4life
07-15-2014, 03:03 PM
But your 25 year old star is injury prone, one of the leagues worst defenders, on a 1-year deal with no guarantee to resign in Cleveland, and had inflated numbers due to being the T-wolves only option. Waiters and Bennett both have all-star potential, yes that Bennett, so I can see why the Cavs are hesitant on Wiggins. As much as i'd love Wiggins and Bennett to be freed from James I don't see how Love gets you Wiggins as well.

Cavs were garbage in the already garbage east last year. LeBron does NOT make them title contenders. IMO if the Cavs don't trade for Love they have no chance to sign him as a FA with both the Lakers and Knicks looking to be big spenders in 2015. I wouldnt call stupidity injury prone though. Knuckle pushups?? WTF? and he had a concussion to towards the ends of one of those years.

Oefarmy2005
07-15-2014, 03:05 PM
Kevin Love gm's played per season

2008 81
2009 60
2010 73
2011 55
2012 18
2013 77

He's worth Bennett and a couple picks that it.

2011 - lockout season. 2009 - he missed time early because the coach wouldn't play him. 2012 - broken hand. Don't remember 2010, but 2013, the 5 games he missed were do to "pseudo" injury when the Wolves were eliminated. Silly to say he is injury prone - in any case, way less then say, Irving.

JustinTime
07-15-2014, 03:06 PM
Cavs were garbage in the already garbage east last year. LeBron does NOT make them title contenders. IMO if the Cavs don't trade for Love they have no chance to sign him as a FA with both the Lakers and Knicks looking to be big spenders in 2015. I wouldnt call stupidity injury prone though. Knuckle pushups?? WTF? and he had a concussion to towards the ends of one of those years.

you lost me at knuckle pushups

twin4life
07-15-2014, 03:09 PM
you lost me at knuckle pushups

In 2012 he said he broke his hand while doing knuckle pushups..

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/20594785/kevin-love-broke-his-hand-doing-knuckle-push-ups

bucketss
07-15-2014, 03:09 PM
why don't cavs just wait and sign him outright at the end of the season? or they don't have cap?

Oefarmy2005
07-15-2014, 03:15 PM
But your 25 year old star is injury prone, one of the leagues worst defenders, on a 1-year deal with no guarantee to resign in Cleveland, and had inflated numbers due to being the T-wolves only option. Waiters and Bennett both have all-star potential, yes that Bennett, so I can see why the Cavs are hesitant on Wiggins. As much as i'd love Wiggins and Bennett to be freed from James I don't see how Love gets you Wiggins as well.

You have zero facts backing up your point - pure speculation from somebody who has been on the forum for 3 days. You should learn this, and quickly, agreeing with Addix is not a good think on PSD. All sane fans from every forum, including NY can't stand this guy, because he is a huge, entitled, factless troll. He is not injury prone - he had one serious injury. He is no the leagues worst defender, or one of - he is average - go look up the numbers. Which numbers are those? His 9.5 defensive rebounds or his 4.4 assists, or his 26.9 PER? Show me another crappy player on a crappy team putting up those numbers?

twin4life
07-15-2014, 03:17 PM
why don't cavs just wait and sign him outright at the end of the season? or they don't have cap?

They would have to work some cap. But there is no way they would be able to compete with LA Lakers or the NY Knicks on $$ in a contract.

Oefarmy2005
07-15-2014, 03:18 PM
why don't cavs just wait and sign him outright at the end of the season? or they don't have cap?

Because he will not sign with the Cavs - once all options are open, he is likely going to the coast. Now, the reason he will stay with the Cavs is if they trade for him, they would have bird rights and could offer him a 5 year deal.

JustinTime
07-15-2014, 03:43 PM
You have zero facts backing up your point - pure speculation from somebody who has been on the forum for 3 days. You should learn this, and quickly, agreeing with Addix is not a good think on PSD. All sane fans from every forum, including NY can't stand this guy, because he is a huge, entitled, factless troll. He is not injury prone - he had one serious injury. He is no the leagues worst defender, or one of - he is average - go look up the numbers. Which numbers are those? His 9.5 defensive rebounds or his 4.4 assists, or his 26.9 PER? Show me another crappy player on a crappy team putting up those numbers?

I don't know or care what people think of Addix because he has an opinion which is shared by several pro's i've listened to as well. I don't care how long someone has been on a forum either there are lots of basketball resources out there and not being a member of this site for a long time doesn't make someone any less knowledgeable. If Greg Popovich joined this site tomorrow would he be less qualified than a guy with 10,000 posts?

Love's number are nice but they are inflated because he's on a very bad team. He will never put up anything like that on Cleveland especially the rebounds. I'll leave anyone who thinks Love is an average defender with this http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDefense.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&sortField=FGP_DEFEND_RIM&sortOrder=DES&filters=FGA_DEFEND_RIM*GE*6&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Hawkeye15
07-15-2014, 04:12 PM
But your 25 year old star is injury prone, one of the leagues worst defenders, on a 1-year deal with no guarantee to resign in Cleveland, and had inflated numbers due to being the T-wolves only option. Waiters and Bennett both have all-star potential, yes that Bennett, so I can see why the Cavs are hesitant on Wiggins. As much as i'd love Wiggins and Bennett to be freed from James I don't see how Love gets you Wiggins as well.

injury prone? Outside 1 year, he was fine. Remember, the Wolves essentially just made up an injury and sat him to close 2 seasons to help draft position. He is not as bad of a defender as people think, if you pair him with a rim protecting center. And he has already put it out there he will extend if traded to Cleveland.

Waiters and Bennett have all star potential? How on earth can you justify that? Bennett just had the worst season ever for a #1 pick, and Waiters is looking to join the long list of tweeners who are inefficient chuckers.

LeBron's window is what, 3-4 years as the best in the game? Love helps the Cavs win it all now. It's a no brainer if I am Cleveland.

Hawkeye15
07-15-2014, 04:13 PM
I think love sucks, and his team sucks, and the front office sucks.

I don't see whats so hard about that.

haha, I gotta say, the people in your life must enjoy your positivity. You are so negative about basically every player/team on here.

Hawkeye15
07-15-2014, 04:16 PM
why don't cavs just wait and sign him outright at the end of the season? or they don't have cap?

with Irving/LeBron, they would need to shed Waiters and/or Bennett for sure, and potentially trade away their pick before the draft to get rid of that salary allocation. They could sign Love, but they would essentially gut the team down to LeBron/Irving/Wiggins, and sign Love, then fill it up with vet minimums.

If that is the path they want, they can do it, even if it requires the Cavs front office to be intelligent, something it has never shown before.

AddiX
07-15-2014, 04:31 PM
haha, I gotta say, the people in your life must enjoy your positivity. You are so negative about basically every player/team on here.

Oh yeah, because people come to NBA general forum for positive talk. Positive convo in this forum goes no where.

And it's not negative if it's true. I've maintained for a long time love, Rubio, and minny, suck, and every hear the results further prove I am right.

I am the original Kevin Love hater...

JustinTime
07-15-2014, 04:34 PM
injury prone? Outside 1 year, he was fine. Remember, the Wolves essentially just made up an injury and sat him to close 2 seasons to help draft position. He is not as bad of a defender as people think, if you pair him with a rim protecting center. And he has already put it out there he will extend if traded to Cleveland.

Waiters and Bennett have all star potential? How on earth can you justify that? Bennett just had the worst season ever for a #1 pick, and Waiters is looking to join the long list of tweeners who are inefficient chuckers.

LeBron's window is what, 3-4 years as the best in the game? Love helps the Cavs win it all now. It's a no brainer if I am Cleveland.

Bennett had surgery last year on his shoulder and wasn't even allowed to exercise for months. He was forced to skip summer league and training camp and got fat as a result. Truth be told most teams would never have allowed him to play in the condition he was in but Cavs aren't like most teams. As of now he looks like a tank and has been by far the Cavs best player in summer league for what it's worth and they have Wiggins so I would give him a year or two more before labeling him.

JLeBeau76
07-15-2014, 05:13 PM
Cavs fan here. I'm not going to bash or praise Love because frankly, I never paid much attention to him until recently. IMO I wouldn't trade Wiggins because he does fill immediate needs (defense, transition offense) and has the potential to be a primary star.

With the current set-up of the Cavs and the philosophy that coach Blatt is going to impliment, Having a third "star" isn't a necessity and may even be a hinderance considering salary implications down the road.

Now, I'm not saying I wouldn't want him on my team, he does seem to fill a stat sheet, but I wouldn't include Wiggins.

As for the bad Cavs team last season. I put the majority of blame for us not making the playoffs on the one sided coaching of Mike Brown and the whole Andrew Bynum, Earl Clark experience. Brown allowed for no growth from our youth because he isn't the type of coach that works well with young players.

Blatt, on the other hand, has a history (albeit overseas) of maximizing talent.

Should be fun this year, with or without Love

HowFit
07-15-2014, 05:40 PM
Why trade Wiggins when they could wait 82 games then get him for nothing?

MickeyMgl
07-15-2014, 05:41 PM
I think the cavs have a nice young team and should hold on to their assets

wiggins could end up being a lot better than love

he can also be somebody lbj passes the team to when he starts declining

The Cavs have Lebron back. They'd better not be thinking about who he passes the team to and they'd better focus on who gives the team the best chance to win a championship right now. That's Love more than Wiggins. And don't let Lebron hear you talking that "passing the team" ish or he'll be on the next train out of town.

Also, "a lot better than Love" is pretty much just Lebron or Durant territory. I suppose there's a slim chance Wiggins could one day be as good as Lebron or Durant, but it's not worth passing on the best chance to win right now.

lilchuckdoubles
07-15-2014, 05:58 PM
Cavs fan here. I'm not going to bash or praise Love because frankly, I never paid much attention to him until recently. IMO I wouldn't trade Wiggins because he does fill immediate needs (defense, transition offense) and has the potential to be a primary star.

With the current set-up of the Cavs and the philosophy that coach Blatt is going to impliment, Having a third "star" isn't a necessity and may even be a hinderance considering salary implications down the road.

Now, I'm not saying I wouldn't want him on my team, he does seem to fill a stat sheet, but I wouldn't include Wiggins.

As for the bad Cavs team last season. I put the majority of blame for us not making the playoffs on the one sided coaching of Mike Brown and the whole Andrew Bynum, Earl Clark experience. Brown allowed for no growth from our youth because he isn't the type of coach that works well with young players.

Blatt, on the other hand, has a history (albeit overseas) of maximizing talent.

Should be fun this year, with or without Love

doesn't much discredit your points but love may be the best outlet passer in the league.

Sota4Ever
07-15-2014, 06:11 PM
Why trade Wiggins when they could wait 82 games then get him for nothing?

How is that even possible? Would love to hear your explanation of the cavs cap room to be able to afford love for a max contract.

Hawkeye15
07-15-2014, 06:14 PM
Oh yeah, because people come to NBA general forum for positive talk. Positive convo in this forum goes no where.

And it's not negative if it's true. I've maintained for a long time love, Rubio, and minny, suck, and every hear the results further prove I am right.

I am the original Kevin Love hater...

it can, you just need to weed through the idiots dude.

Hawkeye15
07-15-2014, 06:16 PM
Bennett had surgery last year on his shoulder and wasn't even allowed to exercise for months. He was forced to skip summer league and training camp and got fat as a result. Truth be told most teams would never have allowed him to play in the condition he was in but Cavs aren't like most teams. As of now he looks like a tank and has been by far the Cavs best player in summer league for what it's worth and they have Wiggins so I would give him a year or two more before labeling him.

Bennett wasn't even a good prospect coming out of college for that pick. In no way is anyone justified to tell me, or anyone, that he has all star talent.

Summer league? Remember when Jonny Flynn ate summer league up?

Hawkeye15
07-15-2014, 06:17 PM
How is that even possible? Would love to hear your explanation of the cavs cap room to be able to afford love for a max contract.

they could, but they would have to rifle off everything outside LeBron/Irving/Wiggins. Literally everything, including their picks and the $ allocation with them.

Hawkeye15
07-15-2014, 06:20 PM
Cavs fan here. I'm not going to bash or praise Love because frankly, I never paid much attention to him until recently. IMO I wouldn't trade Wiggins because he does fill immediate needs (defense, transition offense) and has the potential to be a primary star.

With the current set-up of the Cavs and the philosophy that coach Blatt is going to impliment, Having a third "star" isn't a necessity and may even be a hinderance considering salary implications down the road.

Now, I'm not saying I wouldn't want him on my team, he does seem to fill a stat sheet, but I wouldn't include Wiggins.

As for the bad Cavs team last season. I put the majority of blame for us not making the playoffs on the one sided coaching of Mike Brown and the whole Andrew Bynum, Earl Clark experience. Brown allowed for no growth from our youth because he isn't the type of coach that works well with young players.

Blatt, on the other hand, has a history (albeit overseas) of maximizing talent.

Should be fun this year, with or without Love

With LeBron turning 30, the Cavs are better off with Love. There just isn't any argument against it for the next 3 seasons. Love is the floor spacing player LeBron always needs, is a tenacious rebounder, great passer (you talk about transition offense, there is nobody in history better at initiating it than Love), and a guy who can straight up score and rebound efficiently as anyone in the game.

Wiggins may or may not be amazing. But how many of you are going to bet the over on 2 all NBA teams by age 25 for Wiggins? He is still an uncertainty, where as Love is a top 6 player in the game literally entering his prime, with an ideal skillset to work with LeBron/Irving.

Sota4Ever
07-15-2014, 06:22 PM
they could, but they would have to rifle off everything outside LeBron/Irving/Wiggins. Literally everything, including their picks and the $ allocation with them.

Then they would be stuck with crap everywhere else. Doesn't seem like the cavs hold all the leverage in this negotiaiton like they think they do.. Because there is no way Love will talk less then the max to play in Cleveland.

h2r09
07-15-2014, 06:25 PM
The Cavs would be failing Lebron yet again not to get the best PF in the league if not top 3. The fact that he fits so perfectly with Lebron should be the icing on the cake.

Lebron is about to turn 30 and you would be wasting prime Lebron years yet again waiting for Wiggins to possible develop instead of trading for a sure thing superstar who already has said he would resign with them. You don't waste prime Lebron years without Love because of what you think Wiggins might turn out to be.

Hell it would be a best case scenario if Wiggins ever turns into how good Love is. You trade Wiggins, Waiters and either bennett or Thompson in a fraction of a heartbeat and don't look back. The Cavs are the Cavs however and will probably find a way to screw it up.

Kevin Love hasn't even played his best basketball yet and you know he would re-sign with you. How stupid can you be to not trade for that.

Hawkeye15
07-15-2014, 06:27 PM
Then they would be stuck with crap everywhere else. Doesn't seem like the cavs hold all the leverage in this negotiaiton like they think they do.. Because there is no way Love will talk less then the max to play in Cleveland.

No, Love would require 4 years, $80+ million to sign. That would tie up around 49-53 million in 3 players (next year alone, it will escalate yearly), and Wiggins deal would put them at the cap, literally. Now they need 8 players on vet minimums.

Could it work? Sure. It did in Miami basically. A top heavy team that has crap everywhere else that have one specific skillset, whether that is to shoot, or defend. But we are also talking Cleveland's front office here, not Pat Riley..

Hawkeye15
07-15-2014, 06:30 PM
The Cavs would be failing Lebron yet again not to get the best PF in the league if not top 3. The fact that he fits so perfectly with Lebron should be the icing on the cake.

Lebron is about to turn 30 and you would be wasting prime Lebron years yet again waiting for Wiggins to possible develop instead of trading for a sure thing superstar who already has said he would resign with them. You don't waste prime Lebron years without Love because of what you think Wiggins might turn out to be.

Hell it would be a best case scenario if Wiggins ever turns into how good Love is. You trade Wiggins, Waiters and either bennett or Thompson in a fraction of a heartbeat and don't look back. The Cavs are the Cavs however and will probably find a way to screw it up.

Kevin Love hasn't even played his best basketball yet and you know he would re-sign with you. How stupid can you be to not trade for that.

It really is this easy, I don't get how people don't see that. If the Cavs want to win a chip, trading for Love right now is the best way to do it over the next decade.

Love has always been so underrated, it boggles my mind. The dude is an all NBA player who rebounds like Moses and shoots like Dirk. Sure he has some deficiencies, but so does everyone not named LeBron over the past 15 years.

Arch Stanton
07-15-2014, 06:33 PM
Why trade Wiggins when they could wait 82 games then get him for nothing?

Don't have enough space under the Cap unless LeBron drastically alters his year 2 contract.

h2r09
07-15-2014, 06:40 PM
It really is this easy, I don't get how people don't see that. If the Cavs want to win a chip, trading for Love right now is the best way to do it over the next decade.

Love has always been so underrated, it boggles my mind. The dude is an all NBA player who rebounds like Moses and shoots like Dirk. Sure he has some deficiencies, but so does everyone not named LeBron over the past 15 years.


Ya, I really don't even understand the argument for not doing it. Wiggins is an 18 year old kid who sure, might be good eventually but he won't be extremely impactful right away and you would be wasting one of Lebrons prime seasons. As someone who has Heat season tickets and has watched every game of his the last 4 years I believe Lebron has already slightly begun to decline defensively a bit (while he is still easily the best player in the game he wasn't quite as impactful, possibly due to lack of effort in the regular season) you shouldn't be wasting his prime years waiting for Wiggins to peak which wouldn't come until 3 years from now at the earliest.

This is such a cut and dry easy decision it makes no sense to be stubborn and try to develop Wiggins into a superstar when you have a superstar all ready to be traded for who isn't old and still has plenty of prime years left.

If they let Kevin Love go without trading for him I don't think the Cavs ever win a title under Lebron. By the time Wiggins would mature at that point lebron would be declining and I don't think the Cavs are close to ready to be finals contenders yet. Even if everything goes right teams simply do not win without playoff heartbreak first.

h2r09
07-15-2014, 06:41 PM
Also if your argument is that they won't have any other cap space to sign other players than you do what the heat did, get carried by the big 3 with carefully chosen veteran minimums/young players to fill out the roster and then as the years go by use exceptions to sprinkle in key pieces.

Also Kyrie Irving is not close to what Dwyane Wade was when the Heat won their two titles and Dwyane Wade was light years better the first year of the big 3 in Miami.

You are not winning a title with Kyrie as Lebrons second option for at least 2 years at best.

Oefarmy2005
07-15-2014, 07:05 PM
I don't know or care what people think of Addix because he has an opinion which is shared by several pro's i've listened to as well. I don't care how long someone has been on a forum either there are lots of basketball resources out there and not being a member of this site for a long time doesn't make someone any less knowledgeable. If Greg Popovich joined this site tomorrow would he be less qualified than a guy with 10,000 posts?

Love's number are nice but they are inflated because he's on a very bad team. He will never put up anything like that on Cleveland especially the rebounds. I'll leave anyone who thinks Love is an average defender with this http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDefense.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&sortField=FGP_DEFEND_RIM&sortOrder=DES&filters=FGA_DEFEND_RIM*GE*6&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Mind looking at the #4 player on that list - Pekovic - which tell you that the TWolves were not a jaggernut at the rim. Second, we have a guy named KMart, who will literally step aside and let his man go to the hoop, catching Love and Pek, already average league defenders at best out of place. This is why the advanced stats are better here, because they actually judge on how well a certain player defends his counter part and not the rest of the team. Poor perimeter D results in poor(high) opponent FG% at the rim, and when you have two guys who are ok positional defenders but are not particularly athletic and are not shot blockers - you have the result you see here.

IKnowHoops
07-15-2014, 07:23 PM
It really is this easy, I don't get how people don't see that. If the Cavs want to win a chip, trading for Love right now is the best way to do it over the next decade.

Love has always been so underrated, it boggles my mind. The dude is an all NBA player who rebounds like Moses and shoots like Dirk. Sure he has some deficiencies, but so does everyone not named LeBron over the past 15 years.

I disagree, Kevin Love is a great player but the best way for the cave to win is to have depth around Bron and Kyrie. Waiters, Thompson, Bennett, Dova, Wiggins is a lot of young talented athletic depth.

Now before you say they can't win with that, don't forget that these players are not the same players they were last year. Thats the beauty of having young talent, they get better every year if they are dedicated. Tristan may be a 18/10 guy now. Bennett may be a 15/10 guy now. Waiters may be a 24/5 guy now. With Kyrie at 22/7 thats a tone of talent and easily enough for Bron to win a title with.

Adding love will do nothing for there chances against the Spurs. They are to deep to loose to three players and a bunch of garbage. Getting love would doom the Cavs if they are giving up there young improving talent.

Oefarmy2005
07-15-2014, 07:23 PM
The bottom line is, it's a win win for both teams. Cavs get drastically better in the next 5 years and the Wolves save face the best they can by acquiring a high potential rookie who may turn out to be great in distant future. I like Thompson better than Wiggins now or in 3 years personally, but as an NBA fan, I'd much rather see a small market team win(or have a chance to win) a chip than another team from Cali.

IKnowHoops
07-15-2014, 07:34 PM
Also if your argument is that they won't have any other cap space to sign other players than you do what the heat did, get carried by the big 3 with carefully chosen veteran minimums/young players to fill out the roster and then as the years go by use exceptions to sprinkle in key pieces.

Also Kyrie Irving is not close to what Dwyane Wade was when the Heat won their two titles and Dwyane Wade was light years better the first year of the big 3 in Miami.

You are not winning a title with Kyrie as Lebrons second option for at least 2 years at best.

I guess you forgot that Bron got to the finals with Mo Williams as his second option and no 3rd or 4th option.

Waiters is almost as good as Kyrie, he will be on a James Harden level. Your underestimating Lebron and the young talent on this team. They can win next year with this team.

Hawkeye15
07-15-2014, 07:36 PM
I disagree, Kevin Love is a great player but the best way for the cave to win is to have depth around Bron and Kyrie. Waiters, Thompson, Bennett, Dova, Wiggins is a lot of young talented athletic depth.

Now before you say they can't win with that, don't forget that these players are not the same players they were last year. Thats the beauty of having young talent, they get better every year if they are dedicated. Tristan may be a 18/10 guy now. Bennett may be a 15/10 guy now. Waiters may be a 24/5 guy now. With Kyrie at 22/7 thats a tone of talent and easily enough for Bron to win a title with.

Adding love will do nothing for there chances against the Spurs. They are to deep to loose to three players and a bunch of garbage. Getting love would doom the Cavs if they are giving up there young improving talent.

young players get better every year? Huh..

Irving is a perfect example. He regressed. Hell, my teams PG, Rubio regressed.

The Cavs, currently built, adding shooters, etc, are not challenging for a title. As great as LeBron is, he can no longer carry a team in every facet of the game and win. It's too wearing on him.

Hawkeye15
07-15-2014, 07:37 PM
I guess you forgot that Bron got to the finals with Mo Williams as his second option and no 3rd or 4th option.

Waiters is almost as good as Kyrie, he will be on a James Harden level. Your underestimating Lebron and the young talent on this team. They can win next year with this team.

and we have now seen that LeBron will wear down if he needs to do literally everything.

Love exponentially gives them the best chance over the next few years, his skillset is perfect next to LeBron.

IKnowHoops
07-15-2014, 07:39 PM
The bottom line is, it's a win win for both teams. Cavs get drastically better in the next 5 years and the Wolves save face the best they can by acquiring a high potential rookie who may turn out to be great in distant future. I like Thompson better than Wiggins now or in 3 years personally, but as an NBA fan, I'd much rather see a small market team win(or have a chance to win) a chip than another team from Cali.

No the Cavs are already in a great position and the wolves are in a terrible one. Until its shown that the Cavs cannot win with there current roster, I don't care about the drivel and pretending from others trying to do Lebron and the Cavs a favor. They don't need Kevin Love. They are in a position to dominate for the next 10 years.

IKnowHoops
07-15-2014, 07:42 PM
and we have now seen that LeBron will wear down if he needs to do literally everything.

Love exponentially gives them the best chance over the next few years, his skillset is perfect next to LeBron.

Yes but by getting love, you are essentially putting Bron back in a situation where he has to do everything. You are taking away his depth. Waiters is ready now to take a huge load off of Bron, and Wiggins will be ready in a year. I wouldn't want to trade Wiggins for love, and having Thompson, Waiters, and Bennett will allow Bron to rest more than just having Love.

h2r09
07-15-2014, 07:44 PM
I guess you forgot that Bron got to the finals with Mo Williams as his second option and no 3rd or 4th option.

Waiters is almost as good as Kyrie, he will be on a James Harden level. Your underestimating Lebron and the young talent on this team. They can win next year with this team.
lol they also got destroyed after Lebron carried them through a weak eastern conference.

Waiters is nowhere near James Harden and he is a chucker who cares more about himself than the team, see his post today where he said "noooooooo" to if he will be willing to come off the bench.

You are in for a rude awakening with the way you are overvaluing their roster. If those guys are as good as you say they are they would have come closet to competing for a playoff spot and they came nowhere close and they still had deng on their team.

You 100% go for the sure thing in love and work with 2 superstars and one very good player in Kyrie and work from there. Bench depth is not more important than star power when competing for a title.

ellisgw
07-15-2014, 07:45 PM
it's amazing how stupid some people are about the game basketball

IKnowHoops
07-15-2014, 07:46 PM
young players get better every year? Huh..

Irving is a perfect example. He regressed. Hell, my teams PG, Rubio regressed.

The Cavs, currently built, adding shooters, etc, are not challenging for a title. As great as LeBron is, he can no longer carry a team in every facet of the game and win. It's too wearing on him.


Waiters certainly has progressed, Thompson has progressed, Kyrie got beat up by his teammate last year so he was just mentally regressed. Putting Bron in the fold will make all these guys better and more efficient. We just disagree then on the point of the Cavs able to win a title now. I say the can and will.

IKnowHoops
07-15-2014, 07:54 PM
PG Kyrie/Dova
SG Waiters/Wiggins
SF Bron/Miller
PF Thompson/Bennett
C AV

That is easily the deepest team Bron has ever been on, and he will get more rest with this team than he has ever had. This is also the fastest and most athletic team Bron has ever been on. Don't trade for Love and loose the depth, aka the ability for Bron to be able to rest whenever he wants.

h2r09
07-15-2014, 07:59 PM
PG Kyrie/Dova
SG Waiters/Wiggins
SF Bron/Miller
PF Thompson/Bennett
C AV

That is easily the deepest team Bron has ever been on, and he will get more rest with this team than he has ever had. This is also the fastest and most athletic team Bron has ever been on. Don't trade for Love and loose the depth, aka the ability for Bron to be able to rest whenever he wants.

You don't know basketball.

xnick5757
07-15-2014, 08:01 PM
young players get better every year? Huh..

Irving is a perfect example. He regressed. Hell, my teams PG, Rubio regressed.

The Cavs, currently built, adding shooters, etc, are not challenging for a title. As great as LeBron is, he can no longer carry a team in every facet of the game and win. It's too wearing on him.


on this note, most players tend to peak around year 5 in the league (and then either maintain their abilities for a while or start a slow decline)

bucketss
07-15-2014, 08:05 PM
funny how vegas has the cavs as favs now loooooool i laugh the next time someone uses vegas odds as apart of their arguments.

Hawkeye15
07-15-2014, 08:07 PM
Yes but by getting love, you are essentially putting Bron back in a situation where he has to do everything. You are taking away his depth. Waiters is ready now to take a huge load off of Bron, and Wiggins will be ready in a year. I wouldn't want to trade Wiggins for love, and having Thompson, Waiters, and Bennett will allow Bron to rest more than just having Love.

haha, what? So, Waiters, the tweener chucker, is ready to help LeBron, but 25 year old Kevin Love, 2nd team all NBA, a 26/13 player who is an elite passer isn't?

Jesus dude

Hawkeye15
07-15-2014, 08:10 PM
Waiters certainly has progressed, Thompson has progressed, Kyrie got beat up by his teammate last year so he was just mentally regressed. Putting Bron in the fold will make all these guys better and more efficient. We just disagree then on the point of the Cavs able to win a title now. I say the can and will.

I seriously question your ability to evaluate talent dude. Sorry.

Currently constructed, the Cavs are not winning ****. Irving makes Love look like a Rodman type defender, they have no floor spacers outside Miller's signing, and young "talent" that hasn't produced.

The Cavs are LeBron's home. He is happy to go back. They already wasted the first 7 years of his career. My money is on them doing it to the last 7 years of his career. Kevin Love would absolutely give Bron/Irving and shooters/defenders the best chance to win now.

But whatever. Depend on a 19 year old and a bunch of trash that has shown nothing to take huge leaps.

Hawkeye15
07-15-2014, 08:10 PM
on this note, most players tend to peak around year 5 in the league (and then either maintain their abilities for a while or start a slow decline)

where are you getting your peak info?

Hawkeye15
07-15-2014, 08:11 PM
PG Kyrie/Dova
SG Waiters/Wiggins
SF Bron/Miller
PF Thompson/Bennett
C AV

That is easily the deepest team Bron has ever been on, and he will get more rest with this team than he has ever had. This is also the fastest and most athletic team Bron has ever been on. Don't trade for Love and loose the depth, aka the ability for Bron to be able to rest whenever he wants.

that team will be lucky to challenge Indy/Chicago

IKnowHoops
07-15-2014, 08:35 PM
haha, what? So, Waiters, the tweener chucker, is ready to help LeBron, but 25 year old Kevin Love, 2nd team all NBA, a 26/13 player who is an elite passer isn't?

Jesus dude

Oh I didn't know the Cavs only needed to trade Waiters straight up. Common, you don't need to try and make this an argument about something it isn't.

IKnowHoops
07-15-2014, 08:36 PM
You don't know basketball.

Hopefully, we get a chance to see.

IKnowHoops
07-15-2014, 08:43 PM
I seriously question your ability to evaluate talent dude. Sorry.

Currently constructed, the Cavs are not winning ****. Irving makes Love look like a Rodman type defender, they have no floor spacers outside Miller's signing, and young "talent" that hasn't produced.

The Cavs are LeBron's home. He is happy to go back. They already wasted the first 7 years of his career. My money is on them doing it to the last 7 years of his career. Kevin Love would absolutely give Bron/Irving and shooters/defenders the best chance to win now.

But whatever. Depend on a 19 year old and a bunch of trash that has shown nothing to take huge leaps.

Kyrie shoots the 3 at 36%, Waiters shoots the 37%, Miller shoots the 3 at 46% , Bennett shoots the 36%. K love shoots the 3 at 38%, the year before he shot it at 21%. All of these guys shoot the 3 basically the same accept for Miller so how does acquiring Love increase the floor spacing of this team. They'd be loosing at least two guys who shoot the same from 3 as love. Mathematically its impossible.

IKnowHoops
07-15-2014, 08:44 PM
that team will be lucky to challenge Indy/Chicago

OK, we will just have to wait and see who is right, and who is wrong.

Arch Stanton
07-15-2014, 08:47 PM
I seriously question your ability to evaluate talent dude. Sorry.

Currently constructed, the Cavs are not winning ****. Irving makes Love look like a Rodman type defender, they have no floor spacers outside Miller's signing, and young "talent" that hasn't produced.

The Cavs are LeBron's home. He is happy to go back. They already wasted the first 7 years of his career. My money is on them doing it to the last 7 years of his career. Kevin Love would absolutely give Bron/Irving and shooters/defenders the best chance to win now.

But whatever. Depend on a 19 year old and a bunch of trash that has shown nothing to take huge leaps.

Trash is a bit harsh. They may not be all-stars but they can play well as a unit if they buy into their roles. They're also quite young so I'd expect some improvement.

xnick5757
07-15-2014, 08:55 PM
where are you getting your peak info?

http://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/silver-datalab-draftmax-11.png?w=610&h=500

IversonIsKrazy
07-15-2014, 08:55 PM
Id say u can make legitimate arguments for both sides. What's stupid to say would be to say its "an easy decision" HELL no.
On one hand, if Wiggins ends up being w/e, everyone will bash the Cavs GM for not pulling off the trade.
On the other hand, if Wiggins ends up becoming what he is hyped to be, a multiple-MVP player, Cavs GM once again gets bashed for trading him away for Love.
Love is a great fit, but is a horrible defender, and they already have Kyrie and Waiters. Defense would be an issue.
It's a very tough decision, tbh, If I HAD to make it (which once again would be tough), I'd roll with what I got, and go out and get Boozer and roll with that for the upcoming year. LeBron being a mentor to Wiggins can quite possibly be the greatest thing to happen to Wiggins and LeBron pass him the torch in 5 years or so.

Arch Stanton
07-15-2014, 09:05 PM
Id say u can make legitimate arguments for both sides. What's stupid to say would be to say its "an easy decision" HELL no.
On one hand, if Wiggins ends up being w/e, everyone will bash the Cavs GM for not pulling off the trade.
On the other hand, if Wiggins ends up becoming what he is hyped to be, a multiple-MVP player, Cavs GM once again gets bashed for trading him away for Love.
Love is a great fit, but is a horrible defender, and they already have Kyrie and Waiters. Defense would be an issue.
It's a very tough decision, tbh, If I HAD to make it (which once again would be tough), I'd roll with what I got, and go out and get Boozer and roll with that for the upcoming year. LeBron being a mentor to Wiggins can quite possibly be the greatest thing to happen to Wiggins and LeBron pass him the torch in 5 years or so.

Boozers not gonna sign here on the vet minimum. Plus the Cavs don't want him.

FlakeyFool
07-15-2014, 09:23 PM
Wolves have no leverage, keep wiggins

LOOTERX9
07-15-2014, 09:49 PM
cavs young players suck hard. no playoffs in horrid east. so cavs fans thinks that adding lbj and 19 yr old unpolished teen makes them title contenders is a joke. cavs will get left again by lbj if they dont add love and the team gets bumped in 2nd round to miami, bulls or indy.

Oefarmy2005
07-15-2014, 09:51 PM
You don't know basketball.

I was going to post that. The guy is delusional. It's not really worth commenting how much better Harden is than Waiters, or how much better Bosh and Wade in 2008-2009 were than Lebron's new team.

LOOTERX9
07-15-2014, 09:56 PM
plus gettin young players like wiggins and lettin them develop are for teams that have no stars and that are starving for a great player. once cavs added lbj things changed. and now there is no need to develop wiggins cause you have the top star in nba now. cavs focus should be on adding love and winning titles now. its an easy choice to make. there is no debate here.people who say keep wiggins are totally wrong and will not win a title as gm's. yall just want to see wiggins do great dunks so yall can stand up and high five ya friends. but come playoffs he will get raped 1st few yrs then when he gets good lbj will be on downside. meaning zero titles for cavs

Oefarmy2005
07-15-2014, 10:01 PM
We are :horse: . I am fine with and respect both points of view, and I can see it both ways. It's not an easy choice - I just believe adding Love makes more sense if the team is serious to make a championship run. It is ridiculous though when somebody calls Love a terrible defender when stats say otherwise, calls the Wolves a terrible team when record and conference they play in says otherwose, says that Kyrie and a bunch of nobodies is a better team than Lebron has ever had, e.t.c.

NBA_Starter
07-15-2014, 10:06 PM
Why not, go ahead they are in win now mode.

IKnowHoops
07-15-2014, 10:23 PM
id say u can make legitimate arguments for both sides. What's stupid to say would be to say its "an easy decision" hell no.
On one hand, if wiggins ends up being w/e, everyone will bash the cavs gm for not pulling off the trade.
On the other hand, if wiggins ends up becoming what he is hyped to be, a multiple-mvp player, cavs gm once again gets bashed for trading him away for love.
Love is a great fit, but is a horrible defender, and they already have kyrie and waiters. Defense would be an issue.
It's a very tough decision, tbh, if i had to make it (which once again would be tough), i'd roll with what i got, and go out and get boozer and roll with that for the upcoming year. Lebron being a mentor to wiggins can quite possibly be the greatest thing to happen to wiggins and lebron pass him the torch in 5 years or so.

100% agree

Sota4Ever
07-15-2014, 10:34 PM
Love is only 25, it isn't like the cavs are trading for a 29 year old that is on the back end of his prime. Love is just entering his prime. Also Love doesn't have any major injuries like an ACL or back issues. He had one year where he broke his thumb, but other than that nothing serious. Love hasn't played extended basketball, he has never made the playoffs so he doesn't have extra mileage on him. Lastly, love doesn't depend on athleticism to be good so as he gets older I don't see why he won't stay as good as he is with maybe a slight decline as the years progress.

If the Cavs are able to get him to sign an extension, they are stupid not to give up the potential of wiggins for Love a proven top player in this league.

IKnowHoops
07-15-2014, 10:35 PM
plus gettin young players like wiggins and lettin them develop are for teams that have no stars and that are starving for a great player. once cavs added lbj things changed. and now there is no need to develop wiggins cause you have the top star in nba now. cavs focus should be on adding love and winning titles now. its an easy choice to make. there is no debate here.people who say keep wiggins are totally wrong and will not win a title as gm's. yall just want to see wiggins do great dunks so yall can stand up and high five ya friends. but come playoffs he will get raped 1st few yrs then when he gets good lbj will be on downside. meaning zero titles for cavs

When the celtics drafted Len Bias, they were not looking to trade or shop him for more veteran talent. Having 3 max salaries is not good if you want depth.

LOOTERX9
07-15-2014, 11:33 PM
When the celtics drafted Len Bias, they were not looking to trade or shop him for more veteran talent. Having 3 max salaries is not good if you want depth.

can you look at cavs with just wiggins and lebron and kyrie and look at them as east favs? no. they can be beat by 3 east teams and will lose to west champ. but if cavs add love then you talkin east favs at least. isn't that what putting a team together is all about. a team to win title and not develop young player instead

Nikeman
07-15-2014, 11:40 PM
This thread is useless, 14 pages of Cavs fans vs Wolves fans going at it. Cavs fans think Andrew Wiggins is the second coming of Scottie Pippen, Dion Waitors is the next Jordan, and Tristan Thompson the next Karl Malone and Anthony Bennett has transformed into a new LeBron James after two SUMMER LEAGUE from the way they post.

Bottom line is like it said in the article I posted, It is LeBron James' decision. If he wants Love, Cleveland will offer Wiggins, simple as that. I think it will happen because Mike Miller did not take 7 million dollars less in guaranteed money to play for a young squad with promise. He signed onto a team that he believes will WIN NOW.

And to all the Cavs fans, why isn't Andrew Wiggins signed yet if the Cavs are SOOO loyal?? If Andrew signs a contract, the Cavs can't trade him for 30 days, that's why.

Hawkeye15
07-15-2014, 11:46 PM
http://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/silver-datalab-draftmax-11.png?w=610&h=500

do you like various skill factors? Ie, Love is tall, doesn't rely on athletic ability, can shoot, is very skilled, and has all the factors that don't equate into an equation that tells us he is done by age 29?

Jeffy25
07-16-2014, 12:21 AM
Seem like they lack enough big guys at the moment though.

AWash013
07-16-2014, 12:30 AM
In all honesty, as much as I like Kevin Love's game, I just don't think you give up potential ELITE talent for Love. I understand Love is almost elite in his own regard, but Wiggins has THE potential to be a LeBron James clone. Whether he harness' that, is one thing. But he has all the tools LeBron did when he jumped into the NBA. I actually think Wiggins jumper is a little more polished then James was... I actually wrote an article on the both of them... copy and paste it from my profile, should you decide to read it. But as far as Wiggins goes, I just think the sky is the limit for the kid.

AWash013
07-16-2014, 12:36 AM
Andrew Wiggins type of players just dont grow on tree's. I just think they need to keep him...


Side Bar - Hoping Boston is involved... Just saying.

ice_c
07-16-2014, 01:53 AM
The cleveland cavaliers could become a real circus over the next two years. In fact, I don't expect anything but.

I thought wiggins was the clear no. 1 choice in the draft. The fact that they hemmed and hawed for so long on draft day was a bad sign. The fact that his name is being mentioned once again in offseason trade talks is strike two.

This kid is a monster talent. It would be a huge mistake to let him go. Cleveland's unwillingness to embrace this kid is a bad sign regarding the competence of their front office.

bucketss
07-16-2014, 02:13 AM
hopefully wiggins makes his own homecoming in 4-7 years ;)

ice_c
07-16-2014, 02:18 AM
Toronto will wig out for wiggins!

xnick5757
07-16-2014, 02:19 AM
do you like various skill factors? Ie, Love is tall, doesn't rely on athletic ability, can shoot, is very skilled, and has all the factors that don't equate into an equation that tells us he is done by age 29?

? i like love

FOBolous
07-16-2014, 02:28 AM
yes, Wiggins has the "potential" to be something very special. Love is ALREADY something very special. proven commodity > unknown product. it's not like Love is old either. Love is young and still in his prime. his prime coincides with Lebron's too so they can start contending right away and probably win multiple championships right away vs Lebron having to waste 2 or 3 years of his prime waiting for Wiggins to POTENTIALLY develop into a star.

RubberBand Man
07-16-2014, 02:38 AM
Yea you need post play you have enough wings

P&GRealist
07-16-2014, 02:50 AM
Yea you need post play you have enough wings

Bron can be that post player. I think it would suit him the best going forward to extend his career.

MickeyMgl
07-16-2014, 03:07 AM
OK, we will just have to wait and see who is right, and who is wrong.

Fine by me. I hope the Cavs listen to you, because I'd rather see the Bulls win anyway.

MickeyMgl
07-16-2014, 03:18 AM
In all honesty, as much as I like Kevin Love's game, I just don't think you give up potential ELITE talent for Love. I understand Love is almost elite in his own regard, but Wiggins has THE potential to be a LeBron James clone.

Love IS elite talent, right now. Wiggins is potentially elite talent, down the road, in the future, maybe. Holding on to the Future Potential over the Right Now is not the way to win a championship.

Kashmir13579
07-16-2014, 03:20 AM
No.

MickeyMgl
07-16-2014, 03:27 AM
Andrew Wiggins type of players just dont grow on tree's.

And Kevin Love types do? What is Andrew Wiggins anyway? We don't know. He hasn't done anything yet. We DO know what Kevin Love is.

But it's OK. I hope the Cavaliers keep Wiggins, because right now they're about #3 in the East, and I'm fine with that.

LOOTERX9
07-16-2014, 07:58 AM
if cavs keep wiggins= no titles for 3 yrs atleast= wasted gettin lebron back=4 yrs when wiggins is good lbj will be declining and still no titles for another 3 yrs after that= wiggins leaves clev after 7 yrs= once again clev blows it yet again

ellisgw
07-16-2014, 11:17 AM
I just fell out of my chair.......This guy is completely insane, wiggins was not even best prospect his on team and now he same prospect as lebron. Lebron had better numbers his first year in the NBA out of HS than wiggins did in first year of college. You would have to be a complete dumbass not trade wiggins for love.

JustinTime
07-16-2014, 11:39 AM
In all honesty, as much as I like Kevin Love's game, I just don't think you give up potential ELITE talent for Love. I understand Love is almost elite in his own regard, but Wiggins has THE potential to be a LeBron James clone. Whether he harness' that, is one thing. But he has all the tools LeBron did when he jumped into the NBA. I actually think Wiggins jumper is a little more polished then James was... I actually wrote an article on the both of them... copy and paste it from my profile, should you decide to read it. But as far as Wiggins goes, I just think the sky is the limit for the kid.

I really hate that comparisons I don't see Wiggins as a Lebron type player he has more in common with a young Kobe than Lebron. I know Wiggins is 6'9 and Kobe is 6'6 but both have similar skills and weakness coming into the NBA.

WSU Tony
07-16-2014, 12:33 PM
How I'm going to root for or against the Cavs is dependent on how they treat the Wiggins situation. If Cleveland gets cocky and says "lets keep Wiggins" I'm hoping the team comes up short moving forward. If the Cavs have learned from the last time they had Lebron and decide to go all in right now - I'll root for their success.

Only 2 NBA teams have had the luxury of Lebron. Cleveland has had him twice. If they don't commit to going all in and doing everything they can to win now I'll root against them and laugh if/when they come up short in the finals again.

LOOTERX9
07-16-2014, 01:05 PM
with lance leaving indy that makes eas wide open. if cavs add love for wiggins the cavs become easy favorites in east. and they can win title depending on west champ

AWash013
07-16-2014, 05:50 PM
Celtics need to go all out for Love. Too many assets that will go to waste for absolutely nothing. Cavs should keep the talent that is Andrew Wiggins. That roster is solid up and down. They need a legit rim protector and they will be fine.

Boston on the other hand need to do what it take's, get a third team, land Love, a slasher or a rim protector.




Afterfurtherreview.sportsblog.com

east fb knicks
07-16-2014, 06:12 PM
Celtics need to go all out for Love. Too many assets that will go to waste for absolutely nothing. Cavs should keep the talent that is Andrew Wiggins. That roster is solid up and down. They need a legit rim protector and they will be fine.

Boston on the other hand need to do what it take's, get a third team, land Love, a slasher or a rim protector.



Afterfurtherreview.sportsblog.com

bos doesn't have anything the wolves want and love wouldn't resign there

east fb knicks
07-16-2014, 06:16 PM
with lance leaving indy that makes eas wide open. if cavs add love for wiggins the cavs become easy favorites in east. and they can win title depending on west champ

the cavs are already the favorites in the east but even with love the cavs aren't a top 3 out west to get love the cavs have to not only trade wiggins but all of their depth so essentially your looking at the same problem lbj had in mia ntm andy v is a shell of his former self and love sux at d so on offense they'd be great but their d wouldn't be championship level lac gsw okc sas would eat them alive

IKnowHoops
07-16-2014, 06:56 PM
How I'm going to root for or against the Cavs is dependent on how they treat the Wiggins situation. If Cleveland gets cocky and says "lets keep Wiggins" I'm hoping the team comes up short moving forward. If the Cavs have learned from the last time they had Lebron and decide to go all in right now - I'll root for their success.

Only 2 NBA teams have had the luxury of Lebron. Cleveland has had him twice. If they don't commit to going all in and doing everything they can to win now I'll root against them and laugh if/when they come up short in the finals again.

Why would them winning with Lebron and Wiggins upset you? In this case it would prove to be the better decision and it would prove that they are all in and for a longer period of time.

IKnowHoops
07-16-2014, 07:08 PM
In all honesty, as much as I like Kevin Love's game, I just don't think you give up potential ELITE talent for Love. I understand Love is almost elite in his own regard, but Wiggins has THE potential to be a LeBron James clone. Whether he harness' that, is one thing. But he has all the tools LeBron did when he jumped into the NBA. I actually think Wiggins jumper is a little more polished then James was... I actually wrote an article on the both of them... copy and paste it from my profile, should you decide to read it. But as far as Wiggins goes, I just think the sky is the limit for the kid.

I don't see him as a Lebron Clone, but I do see him as a Kobe/Tmac Clone with Vince Carter hops, which is still awesome and I wouldn't want to give up either at 19 for a 25 year old Love. Id rather develop them and let them play with Bron even though the age gap is huge. I think because Lebron was so much more athletic than everyone else, I think he is still an athletic force at 36. I think Bron is good enough now to win with the current Cavs roster, and by the time he starts loosing his dominance, the youth will be ready to step up and Bron can take a Tim Duncan roll on a team still winning.

torontosports10
07-16-2014, 07:39 PM
The most overlooks aspect in all of this is salary. With such a tight lid on luxury penalties, having Wiggins on a 4 year rookie deal is huge in being able to surround Lebron with better players.

ellisgw
07-16-2014, 09:08 PM
lebron could not win with the big three but he is going to beat west with babies haha

Lets wait until wiggins develops and see him with an old lebron, while he is facing durant and anthony davis in his prime sound like amazing logic to me.

It's common sense

prime love and prime lebron is better than a old lebron and prime wiggins and that is if wiggins turns out to be good

JLeBeau76
07-16-2014, 09:20 PM
lebron could not win with the big three but he is going to beat west with babies haha

Lets wait until wiggins develops and see him with an old lebron, while he is facing durant and anthony davis in his prime sound like amazing logic to me.

It's common sense

prime love and prime lebron is better than a old lebron and prime wiggins and that is if wiggins turns out to be good

Old LeBron will still be a force and he will have prime Wiggins and prime Irving....I think the Cavs are good.

ellisgw
07-17-2014, 08:46 AM
you left out a huge point haha...... if wiggins turns out to be good

JLeBeau76
07-17-2014, 09:00 AM
you left out a huge point haha...... if wiggins turns out to be good

Oh, he's gonna be good...just gotta have faaaaaiiitthhh!

pebloemer
07-17-2014, 09:45 AM
The most overlooks aspect in all of this is salary. With such a tight lid on luxury penalties, having Wiggins on a 4 year rookie deal is huge in being able to surround Lebron with better players.

That's one of my takes as well. Winning isn't as simple as putting stars together and going for it. You need a team surrounding them. Especially on the defensive end, you need 5 guys that are contributing every possession.

LeBron already has plenty of guys that can score around him. He's going to need some depth and help on the defensive end to win a championship in Cleveland. Wiggins could very well be a better defender now than Love is, with the potential to be an elite defensive player. Added with a team friendly rookie scale contract (vs. Love's max deal), and it is an unnecessary risk to trade for Love IMO.

prodigy
07-17-2014, 09:46 AM
Waiters certainly has progressed, Thompson has progressed, Kyrie got beat up by his teammate last year so he was just mentally regressed. Putting Bron in the fold will make all these guys better and more efficient. We just disagree then on the point of the Cavs able to win a title now. I say the can and will.

I seriously question your ability to evaluate talent dude. Sorry.

Currently constructed, the Cavs are not winning ****. Irving makes Love look like a Rodman type defender, they have no floor spacers outside Miller's signing, and young "talent" that hasn't produced.

The Cavs are LeBron's home. He is happy to go back. They already wasted the first 7 years of his career. My money is on them doing it to the last 7 years of his career. Kevin Love would absolutely give Bron/Irving and shooters/defenders the best chance to win now.

But whatever. Depend on a 19 year old and a bunch of trash that has shown nothing to take huge leaps.

Wow, I question your knowledge of the game sir. Thompson is a double double machine, waiters avg 16 last season in a horrible offensive system by mike brown. Kyrie Is one of the best pure shooters in the league who is much better off The ball. Wiggins, waiters and irving can all drive very well, takes so much pressure off of lebron.

Yes they are young and have a lot to prove, but you're acting like they are bad players common now kid. That's a real good team who needs a suprstar and now has one. That team if healthy should win east. But we need another big time player to win finals. Wolves have no power here so I try and get love without giving up Wiggins.

WSU Tony
07-17-2014, 10:19 AM
Wow, I question your knowledge of the game sir. Thompson is a double double machine, waiters avg 16 last season in a horrible offensive system by mike brown. Kyrie Is one of the best pure shooters in the league who is much better off The ball. Wiggins, waiters and irving can all drive very well, takes so much pressure off of lebron.

Yes they are young and have a lot to prove, but you're acting like they are bad players common now kid. That's a real good team who needs a suprstar and now has one. That team if healthy should win east. But we need another big time player to win finals. Wolves have no power here so I try and get love without giving up Wiggins.

Where did the modest Cavs fan go? The minute Lebron went back to Cleveland the "old" fans came out. If you don't want to go all in - how is it going to feel losing in the finals.... again? If you honestly think you're built for a championship then have at it and be disappointed.

Lebron is 30. You can cross your fingers and hope Wiggins will develop. I can guarantee you by this time next year the value of Wiggins will be less than it is right now. People think he's great, right now. He'll inevitably have his woes in the league. The best value you can get for a young "talent" is before he sees playing time. Before the league sees the limitations. Before an injury.

But again, if you want to base your championship (or not) on a young kid developing while on your roster you have the 30 year old once in a lifetime talent on your team... That's an extremely risky move to make.

Maybe there is a reason Cleveland hasn't won a championship in the last... what is it... 40 or 50 years?

Oefarmy2005
07-17-2014, 10:44 AM
bos doesn't have anything the wolves want and love wouldn't resign there

I disagree with both, I think they have the pieces and I am sure he'll resign there.

Vee-Rex
07-17-2014, 11:06 AM
Where did the modest Cavs fan go? The minute Lebron went back to Cleveland the "old" fans came out. If you don't want to go all in - how is it going to feel losing in the finals.... again? If you honestly think you're built for a championship then have at it and be disappointed.

Lebron is 30. You can cross your fingers and hope Wiggins will develop. I can guarantee you by this time next year the value of Wiggins will be less than it is right now. People think he's great, right now. He'll inevitably have his woes in the league. The best value you can get for a young "talent" is before he sees playing time. Before the league sees the limitations. Before an injury.

But again, if you want to base your championship (or not) on a young kid developing while on your roster you have the 30 year old once in a lifetime talent on your team... That's an extremely risky move to make.

Maybe there is a reason Cleveland hasn't won a championship in the last... what is it... 40 or 50 years?

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/Headlines/ExternalArticle?articleId=313180

Read that. I and many other Cavs fans (along with many sports professionals) believe the Cavs should take their time with this one.

ellisgw
07-17-2014, 11:19 AM
How is Wiggins going to make a huge impact defensively in first couple of years when Lebron James who was bigger, faster strong did not even do that in his first three years. How stupid can you people get? To actually think this team can beat the west is beyond stupid, especially since they have a rookie head coach. How many idiots do we have on this board. You take to proven talent and go win for the next 4 years.

ellisgw
07-17-2014, 11:21 AM
When did waiters average 16 points?

Oefarmy2005
07-17-2014, 11:22 AM
Wow, I question your knowledge of the game sir. Thompson is a double double machine, waiters avg 16 last season in a horrible offensive system by mike brown. Kyrie Is one of the best pure shooters in the league who is much better off The ball. Wiggins, waiters and irving can all drive very well, takes so much pressure off of lebron.

Yes they are young and have a lot to prove, but you're acting like they are bad players common now kid. That's a real good team who needs a suprstar and now has one. That team if healthy should win east. But we need another big time player to win finals. Wolves have no power here so I try and get love without giving up Wiggins.

You are making a mistake - Hawkeye is one of the most respected and knowledgeable posters on PSD. In any case, you obviously haven't discovered advanced stats yet. Kevin Love, who people love to call a stat padder, averaged a well above league average PER playing for Kurt Rambis(way worse system than the Cavs had last year). Both of the players you have mentioned have below league average PER - and I mean league average. Stats don't mean much if they are attained inefficiently, and that's exactly what both Thompson and Waiters represent - inefficient players at this point. I don't know how else to explain it to you and some of the other Cavs fans here - Waiter has below league average FG%, Asst/TO ratio, below average steals for the position and doesn't get to the free throw line, not to mention that he is a much worse defender than KLove is for his position. Guards with his types of numbers are a dime a dozen.

Oefarmy2005
07-17-2014, 11:23 AM
When did waiters average 16 points?

Last year, on sub 14 PER(league average is 15).

ellisgw
07-17-2014, 11:25 AM
just to be bring logic to your brain most players dont live up to the hype..... In last 20 yrs less 50 percent of number 1 picks become superstars

ellisgw
07-17-2014, 11:26 AM
16 is not 15