PDA

View Full Version : Are The Nets In The Worst Basketball Purgatory Imaginable?



Clippersfan86
07-13-2014, 02:03 AM
Has any team in NBA history been in such a bad position? They put together what was by far the most expensive team in NBA history. Not only did they underachieve badly ON the court, but OFF the court they will pay 130+ million in taxes ALONE this season. They paid like 160+ million last year I believe. Now you have key guys in Pierce/Livingston bolting, Brook Lopez who can't stay healthy for the life of him.

The main 3 of Lopez/Johnson/D Will salary wise eat up a combined 89 percent of their salary cap, yet none can stay healthy. Even if they let every free agent walk next year, they will be over the cap by 6-7 million and only have mini mid level exception I believe.

Do you think this was one of the worst constructed teams ever? Do you see the Nets bouncing back and being good any time soon? Will Proky sell the team due to being unable to keep his promise of title within 5 years and incredible profit loss?

bucketss
07-13-2014, 02:08 AM
i think they're screwed for awhile.

DoMeFavors
07-13-2014, 02:12 AM
The Nets went to the second round of the playoffs, and lost a 37 year old who they let go because they are going to bring in a 25 year old player are his position.The Nets had the best record in the EAST from Jan 1 2014 untill playoffs. There is nothing to be so dramatic over, they have Deron Williams,Joe Johnson, KG, Brook Lopez, Jarrett Jack, Kirilenko and a coach who is a proven winner. Losing a 37 year old isnt a big deal. Nets will still win the Atlantic and be a top 4 seed this year.

FlashBolt
07-13-2014, 02:13 AM
Profit loss kinda contradicts each other since profit means gain. Think you meant net loss - but to your point, yeah, they are probably in the worst position possible. Long term contracts with injured/overpaid players and underachieving at every aspect e.g. coach, front office, and their roster. I would hate to be a fan of them. Literally nothing to look forward to these next years. What's worse is the fact that their best player can't stay healthy at all because Brook Lopez can play. Joe Johnson/Deron Williams are a joke.

sjbirds
07-13-2014, 02:15 AM
Favors aren't you the biggest Kidd backer haha

DoMeFavors
07-13-2014, 02:17 AM
Profit loss kinda contradicts each other since profit means gain. Think you meant net loss - but to your point, yeah, they are probably in the worst position possible. Long term contracts with injured/overpaid players and underachieving at every aspect e.g. coach, front office, and their roster. I would hate to be a fan of them. Literally nothing to look forward to these next years. What's worse is the fact that their best player can't stay healthy at all because Brook Lopez can play. Joe Johnson/Deron Williams are a joke.

Long term? Who has a long term contract? they all expire in 2016 which means they are all expirings starting next season. Deron is only one who goes untill 2017

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
07-13-2014, 02:22 AM
Nets will be lucky to make 7th or 8th spot. if dwill and Lopez can stay healthy and KG stays then 5th

There going to be screwed for a long time with nothing to show for it

FlashBolt
07-13-2014, 02:23 AM
Profit loss kinda contradicts each other since profit means gain. Think you meant net loss - but to your point, yeah, they are probably in the worst position possible. Long term contracts with injured/overpaid players and underachieving at every aspect e.g. coach, front office, and their roster. I would hate to be a fan of them. Literally nothing to look forward to these next years. What's worse is the fact that their best player can't stay healthy at all because Brook Lopez can play. Joe Johnson/Deron Williams are a joke.

Long term? Who has a long term contract? they all expire in 2016 which means they are all expirings starting next season. Deron is only one who goes untill 2017
He asked if this was one of the worst teams ever constructed and I agreed that it was because of horrible long term contracts for players who are injured and or are overpaid for their talent.

raiderposting
07-13-2014, 02:25 AM
Nets aren't going to the finals for a while. I see the cavs coming out the east at least 2-3 years in a row

*Silver&Black*
07-13-2014, 02:27 AM
If I was them, trade who you can for any picks you can get. Clean house. Take the L's and try to get your picks back.

east fb knicks
07-13-2014, 02:27 AM
Favors aren't you the biggest Kidd backer haha

:laugh:

DoMeFavors
07-13-2014, 02:30 AM
Nets will be lucky to make 7th or 8th spot. if dwill and Lopez can stay healthy and KG stays then 5th

There going to be screwed for a long time with nothing to show for it

They will have cap space and are in the biggest market in the NBA, they will always be fine and will never not be a winning team as long as the owner is still here.

Clippersfan86
07-13-2014, 02:31 AM
They will have cap space and are in the biggest market in the NBA, they will always be fine and will never not be a winning team as long as the owner is still here.

Always based on what? They have been taking L's in the whole Deron Williams era, one after another.

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
07-13-2014, 02:33 AM
They haven't won anything since he has been the owner

DoMeFavors
07-13-2014, 02:35 AM
Always based on what? They have been taking L's in the whole Deron Williams era, one after another.

I see two straight winning records. Always based on everything involved, winning players, winning coach, big market.

FlashBolt
07-13-2014, 02:38 AM
Always based on what? They have been taking L's in the whole Deron Williams era, one after another.

I see two straight winning records. Always based on everything involved, winning players, winning coach, big market.

I like your optimistic view of things but even you have to admit that this team is a financial disaster left and right. They may have a winning record but for what's being put into this team, they should be fighting for the ECF, not getting beat down in the second round 4-1.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
07-13-2014, 02:41 AM
they need Jesus

DoMeFavors
07-13-2014, 02:43 AM
I like your optimistic view of things but even you have to admit that this team is a financial disaster left and right. They may have a winning record but for what's being put into this team, they should be fighting for the ECF, not getting beat down in the second round 4-1.

The Nets last yr lost to 2 time defending champs with LeBron on the team in 2nd rd. Nets wont stop untill they win a championship as they have proven they will make moves to get rid of the pieces that no longer serve a need, like Pierce. It was time to move on from him he is 37 years old, and Hollins wants to be a quicker more athletic team.

east fb knicks
07-13-2014, 02:46 AM
The Nets last yr lost to 2 time defending champs with LeBron on the team in 2nd rd. Nets wont stop untill they win a championship as they have proven they will make moves to get rid of the pieces that no longer serve a need, like Pierce. It was time to move on from him he is 37 years old, and Hollins wants to be a quicker more athletic team.

so are you releasing dwill too that dude is done

Clippersfan86
07-13-2014, 02:54 AM
I see two straight winning records. Always based on everything involved, winning players, winning coach, big market.

LOL people, including you were talking finals at this time last year and now you come up with "winning record" as if in the east that is impressive lol?

JEDean89
07-13-2014, 03:11 AM
nets are facing a massive problem. they have picks sent out to 2018, and even in the years they do have it, boston gets the rights to swap with them. they have no cap space until 2016 and even then they will still have williams on the books for max money. They basically need to rebuild but can't for another 2 years at best. Even if they do in 2016 they will have no draft picks to rebuild with, and will have do it through trading their expiring contracts (which will be tough to get anything of real value for) and through FA. What real superstar will wan't to come to the Nets before joining the other marquee franchises? The teams like the Lakers, Nets and Knicks who went big on spending for big names ended up getting killed. It was impossible to imitate the Heat because there's only one Lebron James. If I'm the Nets I'm praying that Williams and Lopez get healthy so that they may be able to get traded. It's gonna be a brutal few years (at least) for the Nets.

astonmartin10
07-13-2014, 06:05 AM
Not sure what they can do, they are tied up to long term contracts.

Joe Johnson carried them in the playoffs and looked really good against the Raptors.

Dwill keeps regressing and at this point of his career he is not a starting point guard. Lopez needs to stay healthy.

I don't see them being a playoff team East teams got better.

rhymeratic
07-13-2014, 06:30 AM
I wont do a homer response. I will respond thoughtfully.

The Nets roster doesn't have flexibility. They are essentially stuck with their core until the end of their contracts as all have diminished trade value due to contract size, length, injury history, diminished skills. Eventually its a ticking time bomb. It could be this season or next but many of these guys are due for a major drop in production ( dwill/joe Johnson) and when that happens, lottery team.

Your only hope is to hit the jackpot with one of your euro stash players before 2018. Then again if the cap goes way up by then, it won't look soo bad.

Regardless they are still a playoff team and anything can happen if the right guy on another team gets injured at the right time...

Anyway, Knicks are better and that's all that matters.

PurpleLynch
07-13-2014, 06:37 AM
The Nets aren't in Purgatory,they are in Hell! Don't you see the Beast lurking in our world with a human body...We call him "Billy King"...

Lol,that Mark Jackson's thread inspired me. Even if I'm atheist.

Badluck33
07-13-2014, 09:44 AM
Nets are screwed.

They gave up picks for talent 2 years ago and that hurts them now.

I dont expect them to win anything other than the Atlantic but that wont be easy. I think 76ers surprise a lot of people this season. Youngest most talented team in the entire NBA.

xxplayerxx23
07-13-2014, 09:58 AM
Nets are screwed.

They gave up picks for talent 2 years ago and that hurts them now.

I dont expect them to win anything other than the Atlantic but that wont be easy. I think 76ers surprise a lot of people this season. Youngest most talented team in the entire NBA.

76ers will finish last.

xxplayerxx23
07-13-2014, 10:00 AM
KG? KG is a 17 min player. Lopez and deron have been injury prone, joe Johnson is nice ak47 is injury prone but is a solid defender. They will make the playoffs but won't be a threat.

colinskik
07-13-2014, 10:29 AM
The trade for pierce/KG was so bad that it makes the joe Johnson trade look alright. Billy king has got to start creating some miracles or he'll be gone fast.

BoSox47
07-13-2014, 10:29 AM
They will have cap space and are in the biggest market in the NBA, they will always be fine and will never not be a winning team as long as the owner is still here.

They will have cap space in 2016 but no free agent, who is looking to win, would go to brooklyn at least until Deron Williams contract is off that team. He can barely stay on the court now, nevermind two more seasons of wear and tear on his fragile ankles.

Nets will be in a good position come the summer of 2017 or 2018 though with all the money off the books and the last of the draft picks they owe to boston will be over in 2018.

RaginRondo17
07-13-2014, 10:30 AM
Celtics could make out pretty well with that trade. '16 '17(we can swap picks) '18. Going to be tough without 1st rounders and limited cap space + aging roster

slashsnake
07-13-2014, 10:31 AM
The Nets last yr lost to 2 time defending champs with LeBron on the team in 2nd rd. Nets wont stop untill they win a championship as they have proven they will make moves to get rid of the pieces that no longer serve a need, like Pierce. It was time to move on from him he is 37 years old, and Hollins wants to be a quicker more athletic team.

Well the started with a bad contract and seem to keep trying to move them by taking on ones just as bad...

I don't see them as super competitive. They were about average last year. Slightly above .500 in the weakest division of what is one of the weakest conferences in NBA history. They scored 98.5 a game and gave up 98.5 a game. They have hope, but are starting again with a new coach, took a step back last year, and I don't see a reason they will get better. Garnett, Jack, AK47, Deron, and Johnson are all at ages where they are moving out of their prime and in decline years. Brook Lopez coming back could be a nice boost, but we are talking about an oft injured 7 footer coming off a major foot injury who the Nets were 7-10 with last year.

Their biggest thing going for them is their market. If they can move contracts and be a Clippers type situation where they get in some quality free agents sometime.

Wade n Fade
07-13-2014, 10:32 AM
Without Paul Pierce, I don't even think the Nets are going to be able to find 4th quarter offense assuming Lopez is injured. Joe Johnson is not capable of scoring 20-25 ppg constantly. King Goon should retire. Deron Williams has lost it. Livingston is gone. The Nets could end up missing the playoffs and winning like 30 games.

Vinny642
07-13-2014, 10:34 AM
They will have cap space and are in the biggest market in the NBA, they will always be fine and will never not be a winning team as long as the owner is still here.

Winning team? NO ONE considers them a winning team. Just because they made they playoffs in the East doesnt make them a winning team.

That team was a failed science experiment that went completely wrong and I love it.

BoSox47
07-13-2014, 10:37 AM
The Nets last yr lost to 2 time defending champs with LeBron on the team in 2nd rd. Nets wont stop untill they win a championship as they have proven they will make moves to get rid of the pieces that no longer serve a need, like Pierce. It was time to move on from him he is 37 years old, and Hollins wants to be a quicker more athletic team.

whats the excuse for deron williams then? Since joining the nets he has a .426 FG% and 7.7 APG over that span with an assist per year dropping off his yearly averages.. Havent checked the stats compared to other pg's in the league but id imagine hes not even top 10 pgs in the league anymore. Maybe even beyond top 15 for this upcoming season.

Corey
07-13-2014, 10:42 AM
Danny Ainge :clap:

Thanks for the picks, Brooklyn.

Oldmantrash
07-13-2014, 10:50 AM
If I was them, trade who you can for any picks you can get. Clean house. Take the L's and try to get your picks back.

You just want to swap picks with us.lol
Nets can't clean house, there biggest assets are coming off injuries
Have to play this year out, see if Bogs is any good.
I'm excited about season, no championship in site, but we are younger, and Hopefully Brook, and Dewill are healthy.
That trade was a bust, but we could be worse

YashBoone
07-13-2014, 11:01 AM
They will have cap space and are in the biggest market in the NBA, they will always be fine and will never not be a winning team as long as the owner is still here.

A "winning" team is s stretch.

I mean, they haven't been yet, and I don't see it getting any better..
If your just constantly a 2nd round playoff team ... I don't call that a winning team and thats what I see them being ...

They did just pick up a good coach though.

YashBoone
07-13-2014, 11:04 AM
prokhorov's whole strategy has been one of pure entertainment.
he brings the team to brooklyn, builds this brand new awesome arena,
so he can't put a "rebuild" team on the floor. He has to put out an entertaining one,
that isn't necessarily a competitor.

He wanted to make a splash and create this whole NY battle with the knicks...

Sadly, its put them in a situation where they are in no position to build a winner for quite a while.

YashBoone
07-13-2014, 11:09 AM
Winning team? NO ONE considers them a winning team. Just because they made they playoffs in the East doesnt make them a winning team.

That team was a failed science experiment that went completely wrong and I love it.

Agreed..

I mean, anyone except for Nets fanboys, can objectively admit that Prokhorov only wanted to really splash in to the New York market and floor an entertaining team...

Trust me, Im a huge Knick fan and have watched year after year after year as the knicks made bogus attempts at putting together "competitive" teams by making all the wrong moves and over paying everyone along the way just because in that big market, its very hard for the owner, who are ultimately business men, to put their team in to rebuild mode.

MagicBucsSox
07-13-2014, 11:11 AM
Billy King strikes again

FOXHOUND
07-13-2014, 11:16 AM
Billy King should not have a job. Prokorov is proving to be the Russian James Dolan, and King is his Isiah Thomas. It's one thing to be in the salary cap hell that they are, but how they got there is even worse. All of the picks he has traded for Joe Johnson and for Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett is just horrendous. In hindsight the Deron Williams trade has been awful too, as he hasn't performed nearly as well as his Utah days, but at least at the time they were trading those assets for an elite PG who had his prime ahead of him. Or so we thought...

Jets012
07-13-2014, 11:23 AM
Yea it's tough. They got 2 more years of DWill and JJ. They will probably be a 5th/6th seed the next two years and get bounced early. Really the only chance of them doing anything quickly is if one of their 2nd round picks becomes a Parsons/Lance type player and their Euros (Teletovic/Karasev/Bogdanovic) de elk and then hope fr the best in FA.

They need to overhaul the front office and get more stat minded guys in there. The fact that Billy King still has a job is mind boggling. Hire someone for Houston or Memphis FO.

I don't really think Prok is to blame. He's just put himself around bad basketball people. If he had a good GM and FO people would LOVE him.

But for now, pray that D-Will/Lopez can remain healthy

And can we please stop responding to DMF

FOXHOUND
07-13-2014, 11:29 AM
I don't really think Prok is to blame. He's just put himself around bad basketball people. If he had a good GM and FO people would LOVE him.

I feel like I've heard this about Dolan so many times the past 15 years... lol.

That's the issue, it's the stubborn/overconfident/buddy buddy way they go about making hires. Kidd and King got into it and Kidd lost. I understand why, but every report pointed out how Prokorov and King were buddies. Just reminds me too much of how Dolan and Thomas were. Ceiling coming down, bad move after bad move, but he enjoyed his company and as a friend didn't want to fire him for the longest time.

Kidd>>>K-Mart
07-13-2014, 11:43 AM
I laughed at the title of this thread!

Kashmir13579
07-13-2014, 11:49 AM
Yes. They're kind of where the knicks were like 6-7 years ago

DoMeFavors
07-13-2014, 12:07 PM
whats the excuse for deron williams then? Since joining the nets he has a .426 FG% and 7.7 APG over that span with an assist per year dropping off his yearly averages.. Havent checked the stats compared to other pg's in the league but id imagine hes not even top 10 pgs in the league anymore. Maybe even beyond top 15 for this upcoming season.

his assists have dropped off because he isnt the only one with the ball this past yr Joe and Pierce got the ball a lot to make plays. Its not like when he was in utah or nj when he was the only one who had control of the ball.

Quinnsanity
07-13-2014, 12:15 PM
Isiah Thomas is pissed that you even brought this up.

Quinnsanity
07-13-2014, 12:16 PM
his assists have dropped off because he isnt the only one with the ball this past yr Joe and Pierce got the ball a lot to make plays. Its not like when he was in utah or nj when he was the only one who had control of the ball.

A more logical excuse: he got fat.

TheMightyHumph
07-13-2014, 12:18 PM
his assists have dropped off because he isnt the only one with the ball this past yr Joe and Pierce got the ball a lot to make plays. Its not like when he was in utah or nj when he was the only one who had control of the ball.

But you have to admit that he is not a top 10 PG.

Hell, Suns have 3 PGs that are better than him.

torocan
07-13-2014, 12:20 PM
his assists have dropped off because he isnt the only one with the ball this past yr Joe and Pierce got the ball a lot to make plays. Its not like when he was in utah or nj when he was the only one who had control of the ball.

Or maybe DWill knows the real reason why he's sucking...


"And that system (in Utah) was a great system for my style of play. I'm a system player, and I loved Coach (Jerry) Sloan's system.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8756203/deron-williams-brooklyn-nets-says-not-same-trade-utah-jazz

Injuries and a system player. If he doesn't have a great fit as a coach, he just isn't going to be that special.

Maybe the Nets should have hired D'Antoni... :laugh:

TheMightyHumph
07-13-2014, 12:22 PM
Without Paul Pierce, I don't even think the Nets are going to be able to find 4th quarter offense assuming Lopez is injured. Joe Johnson is not capable of scoring 20-25 ppg constantly. King Goon should retire. Deron Williams has lost it. Livingston is gone. The Nets could end up missing the playoffs and winning like 30 games.

Geez, you've got Lopez injured already?

TheMightyHumph
07-13-2014, 12:25 PM
Billy King strikes again

This one's on Proky.

Not that sad Pierce is gone.

DoMeFavors
07-13-2014, 12:27 PM
Nothing is ever good enough for you guys, you need to understand that only one teams wins a championship. Are you going to kill all 29 other teams? I trust my team because since the new group has taken over Nets have been winning every yr. They just got arguably the best coach in the NBA and improved talent.

TheMightyHumph
07-13-2014, 12:31 PM
Nothing is ever good enough for you guys, you need to understand that only one teams wins a championship. Are you going to kill all 29 other teams? I trust my team because since the new group has taken over Nets have been winning every yr. They just got arguably the best coach in the NBA and improved talent.

Damn, you are quite a 'homer'. Lionel Hollins is now the best coach in the NBA? Improved talent?

DoMeFavors
07-13-2014, 12:34 PM
Damn, you are quite a 'homer'. Lionel Hollins is now the best coach in the NBA? Improved talent?

I didnt say THEE best I said arguably. And improved talent in Jarrett Jack and Bojan Bogdanovic.

MagicBucsSox
07-13-2014, 12:39 PM
This one's on Proky.

Not that sad Pierce is gone.

No, Kings incompetence this in his history. Proky screwed up hiring him. But he's a bad gm

DoMeFavors
07-13-2014, 12:40 PM
No, Kings incompetence this in his history. Proky screwed up hiring him. But he's a bad gm

bad GM based on? the fact that he has been the GM of a finals team...

waveycrockett
07-13-2014, 12:40 PM
prokhorov's whole strategy has been one of pure entertainment.
he brings the team to brooklyn, builds this brand new awesome arena,
so he can't put a "rebuild" team on the floor. He has to put out an entertaining one,
that isn't necessarily a competitor.

He wanted to make a splash and create this whole NY battle with the knicks...

Sadly, its put them in a situation where they are in no position to build a winner for quite a while.


Pretty much this BUT I dont blame him at all. Proky HAD to put a competitive team on the floor for Brooklyn's inaugural season to cultivate a fan base and it has worked but the long term future of the team will rest on FA of 2016 and getting KD

Mr.B
07-13-2014, 12:45 PM
Has any team in NBA history been in such a bad position? They put together what was by far the most expensive team in NBA history. Not only did they underachieve badly ON the court, but OFF the court they will pay 130+ million in taxes ALONE this season. They paid like 160+ million last year I believe. Now you have key guys in Pierce/Livingston bolting, Brook Lopez who can't stay healthy for the life of him.

The main 3 of Lopez/Johnson/D Will salary wise eat up a combined 89 percent of their salary cap, yet none can stay healthy. Even if they let every free agent walk next year, they will be over the cap by 6-7 million and only have mini mid level exception I believe.

Do you think this was one of the worst constructed teams ever? Do you see the Nets bouncing back and being good any time soon? Will Proky sell the team due to being unable to keep his promise of title within 5 years and incredible profit loss?
I don't know if those luxury tax number are correct but if they are I would be surprised if that Russian owner doesn't sell the team in the next year or two. Billionaires didn't become billionaires by agreeing to !owe that much money.

0nekhmer
07-13-2014, 12:46 PM
Bahaha **** brooklyn! Raptors are winning another Atlantic division title. Your owner is trying to sell the dam team but nobody is stupid enough to buy it now that he's in do much debt

maddBat
07-13-2014, 12:48 PM
Yes. They're kind of where the knicks were like 6-7 years ago
not really, we've made the playoffs. no the nets arent title contenders but we r a playoff team atleast.
i wouldnt say worst bball purgatory imaginable because 1-brooklyn isnt a small market, 2-no we dont have cap room now but we have an owner willing to spend, 3- we have decent players when healthy, 4- dwill, jj, blopez isnt a bad core
and realistically there are only 4-5 teams that are title contenders- most of them are in the west.

torocan
07-13-2014, 12:51 PM
I didnt say THEE best I said arguably.

Arguably? Really? Arguably?

All I have to say to that is this...

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTRoI-mzBFOEyRNw2P1SWIpSpljuwUe27Z5prQHxAZWWjvpa2ZK

ohreally
07-13-2014, 01:05 PM
Arguably? Really? Arguably?

All I have to say to that is this...

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTRoI-mzBFOEyRNw2P1SWIpSpljuwUe27Z5prQHxAZWWjvpa2ZK

Why bother? I like Hollins and think he's a vast improvement but Kidd was the best last year according to DMF.

DoMeFavors
07-13-2014, 01:07 PM
Arguably? Really? Arguably?

All I have to say to that is this...

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTRoI-mzBFOEyRNw2P1SWIpSpljuwUe27Z5prQHxAZWWjvpa2ZK

very good coach indeed is Popovic, but having Tim Duncan, Parker, Manu, Robinson helps you. Larry Brown won with guys not even close to that. Larry Brown is a genius. Pop is def a good coach but you cant credit him for doing something without looking at who he coached.

DoMeFavors
07-13-2014, 01:09 PM
Why bother? I like Hollins and think he's a vast improvement but Kidd was the best last year according to DMF.

I never said Kidd was the best, I said he has potential to be the best because of how smart he was on the court.

Mr.B
07-13-2014, 01:13 PM
very good coach indeed is Popovic, but having Tim Duncan, Parker, Manu, Robinson helps you. Larry Brown won with guys not even close to that. Larry Brown is a genius. Pop is def a good coach but you cant credit him for doing something without looking at who he coached.
Where did Pop find Parker and Manu though? You have to factor in his ability to find talent in the draft. His coaching is the reason those guys became who they are. That's what makes Pop the best in the NBA.

Larry Brown is a great coach too though (he's doing amazing things at SMU) just not as good as Pop.

TheMightyHumph
07-13-2014, 01:16 PM
bad GM based on? the fact that he has been the GM of a finals team...

Bad GM based on what he's done to the Nets. Never mind destroying the Sixers.

THE MTL
07-13-2014, 01:20 PM
I just don't like their draft pick situation. None of their picks are their's until 2019!

Chronz
07-13-2014, 01:25 PM
I didnt say THEE best I said arguably. And improved talent in Jarrett Jack and Bojan Bogdanovic.

Its not even arguable.

mjt20mik
07-13-2014, 01:29 PM
I didnt say THEE best I said arguably. And improved talent in Jarrett Jack and Bojan Bogdanovic.

I lol'd. He's a good coach, but wouldn't crack top 5 in the NBA right now. Not even arguable.

jimm120
07-13-2014, 01:30 PM
Jack replaces Livingston
Pierce is not replaced
Garnett just isn't good...merely ok now
JJ is good late game but not good eough
Deron is just bad with a few good games here and there
Brook is great, but can't stay on the court
2015 1st round pick...which should be #15 to #25

That's their team moving forward

jimm120
07-13-2014, 01:34 PM
not really, we've made the playoffs. no the nets arent title contenders but we r a playoff team atleast.
i wouldnt say worst bball purgatory imaginable because 1-brooklyn isnt a small market, 2-no we dont have cap room now but we have an owner willing to spend, 3- we have decent players when healthy, 4- dwill, jj, blopez isnt a bad core
and realistically there are only 4-5 teams that are title contenders- most of them are in the west.


Everybody knows that the Nets' BEST year was going to be 2014.

Everybody knows that its a downward spiral from that point on until 2017.

They can't trade people like Garnett and pIERCE BECause of their age.
Deron can't be traded because of his contract and declining skill
JJ can't be traded because of his contract
Brooks lost a lot of value with the injury.

So yeah...its was known that 2014 would be their best year. 2015 stretching it if they meshed (which they didn't and now lost 2 important members).

From here, its a downward spiral.

2017 is when they'll be able to do more to improve the team significantly

2013-14
2014-15
2015-16

were dedicated to the core of Deron/Lopez/JJ/Pierce/Garnett

So, the 2016-17 season will be when they can do something...and they'd still have Deron under contract taking 23 million in space...and they'd have to decide what to do with Brook Lopez (re-sign or let go away).

Anyway, 2013-14 season was their best shot.
2014-15 was a shot if the Pierce/garnett group didn't fail...but it did.

So, they're gonna have to wait 2 years (this season and next season) before they can ride things out and get out of the salary cap hell they're in. And they'll only have the 2015 pick to help.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/brooklyn.htm

JEDean89
07-13-2014, 01:36 PM
ya lionel is like 7 or 8th in the NBA, definitely not a top coach. rick carlisle, pop, thibs, hornacek, doc, who other than Domefavors thinks that Hollins is arguably the best coach in the nba? what is your argument?

slashsnake
07-13-2014, 01:36 PM
My problem with Larry Brown is he never wanted to stick around. I think he even got fired from Detroit where he had his best success and only championship and managed to get himself fired almost immediately.

I'd much rather go with Pop who brought the guys in and coached them through their entire careers, keeping that team at or near the top for a couple decades.

And as for Lionel Hollins, he had a great season. He's still a .500 coach fired 3 times by the same team, who nobody dropped their coach for when he became available. If he was the best coach, NJ would have been letting Kidd walk and hiring him, not moving on to him after Kidd forced his way out.

JEDean89
07-13-2014, 01:37 PM
besides this nets team sucks compared to those grizzlies teams.

DoMeFavors
07-13-2014, 01:38 PM
Where did Pop find Parker and Manu though? You have to factor in his ability to find talent in the draft. His coaching is the reason those guys became who they are. That's what makes Pop the best in the NBA.

Larry Brown is a great coach too though (he's doing amazing things at SMU) just not as good as Pop.

That is where I cannot agree with you, Pop gets credit for EVERYTHING. Parker and Manu dont get credit for being good players? Pop gets credit for making them good players? It all comes down to the fact that he was lucky enough to have Tim Duncan fall into his hands. Just like Phil was lucky to have MJ and Kobe. I think Larry Brown is better than both of them.

mjt20mik
07-13-2014, 01:40 PM
Looking at the potential playoff picture next year.. I see it being like this:

1. Cleveland
2. Indiana
3. Toronto
4. Washington
5. Chicago
6. Miami
7. Atlanta
8. Charlotte

I still think NY, BK, and Pistons will be on the outside looking in.

jimm120
07-13-2014, 01:43 PM
Lionel is a good coach. Don't try to downplay that. He did great with that squad of his and it took a lot from the next coach to get them back to respectable standards.

Mr.B
07-13-2014, 01:45 PM
That is where I cannot agree with you, Pop gets credit for EVERYTHING. Parker and Manu dont get credit for being good players? Pop gets credit for making them good players? It all comes down to the fact that he was lucky enough to have Tim Duncan fall into his hands. Just like Phil was lucky to have MJ and Kobe. I think Larry Brown is better than both of them.
Pop has also taken players there were cut by several teams (Patty Mills and Diaw as an example) and coached them into extremely efficient role players.

NYJ - NYY
07-13-2014, 01:45 PM
Looking at the potential playoff picture next year.. I see it being like this:

1. Cleveland
2. Indiana
3. Toronto
4. Washington
5. Chicago
6. Miami
7. Atlanta
8. Charlotte

I still think NY, BK, and Pistons will be on the outside looking in.

I hope not :( missing the playoffs sucks once u get a taste ... Lets go Knicks

jimm120
07-13-2014, 01:47 PM
Looking at the potential playoff picture next year.. I see it being like this:

1. Cleveland
2. Indiana
3. Toronto
4. Washington
5. Chicago
6. Miami
7. Atlanta
8. Charlotte

I still think NY, BK, and Pistons will be on the outside looking in.

Gotta be wary of Toronto. They were a surprise last year. Lowry was spectacular, but will he be that good again? I think NY and BK get into the playoffs and Charlotte and Toronto are out.

You really gotta see how badly coached the NY Knicks were last year. You really gotta see how bad JR smith and Iman played post surgery. If you saw how JR played after completely healing from injury at the end of the season. If you saw Iman's defense come back after healing from injury. Same thing won't happen to the Knicks.


Indiana is going down.
Cleveland going up obviously.


I say Brooklyn is a #7-#10 seed.
I say Knicks are #3-#7 seed.

DoMeFavors
07-13-2014, 01:50 PM
Looking at the potential playoff picture next year.. I see it being like this:

1. Cleveland
2. Indiana
3. Toronto
4. Washington
5. Chicago
6. Miami
7. Atlanta
8. Charlotte

I still think NY, BK, and Pistons will be on the outside looking in.

How are Charlotte, Atlanta, Toronto on there and not Brooklyn?

xnick5757
07-13-2014, 01:50 PM
Brooklyn wanted to win, and fast.


New York has always been a Knicks town, more so then it's a Yankees town (Mets draw fans too) . When the Nets moved to Brooklyn, they wanted to win right off the bat (i'm talking make the playoffs here) to establish a market presence/build up the team to lure free agents.

That's why they were willing to temporarily mortgage their future.



(fwiw, all this is from a Lowe podcast I listened to recently)

cmellofan15
07-13-2014, 01:50 PM
That is where I cannot agree with you, Pop gets credit for EVERYTHING. Parker and Manu dont get credit for being good players? Pop gets credit for making them good players? It all comes down to the fact that he was lucky enough to have Tim Duncan fall into his hands. Just like Phil was lucky to have MJ and Kobe. I think Larry Brown is better than both of them.

Larry Brown?.... hahahahahaha what are you talking about?

and by the way, your argument can apply to any coach ever. you can say Larry Brown was lucky to get Chauncey Billups, Sheed, Tayshaun Prince, Danny Manning etc. The only difference is Pop actually had a hand in getting the players while Larry Brown did nothing but take advantage of what Dumars gave him.

DoMeFavors
07-13-2014, 01:51 PM
Pop has also taken players there were cut by several teams (Patty Mills and Diaw as an example) and coached them into extremely efficient role players.

Diaw was better on PHX then he ever was as a spur

mjt20mik
07-13-2014, 01:53 PM
Gotta be wary of Toronto. They were a surprise last year. Lowry was spectacular, but will he be that good again? I think NY and BK get into the playoffs and Charlotte and Toronto are out.

You really gotta see how badly coached the NY Knicks were last year. You really gotta see how bad JR smith and Iman played post surgery. If you saw how JR played after completely healing from injury at the end of the season. If you saw Iman's defense come back after healing from injury. Same thing won't happen to the Knicks.


Indiana is going down.
Cleveland going up obviously.


I say Brooklyn is a #7-#10 seed.
I say Knicks are #3-#7 seed.

Fair assessment. Let me explain my reasoning behind the NY and TOR ranking.

TOR:
I think they stay around the same range just due to them making upgrades this offseason. They have retained their core, and added marginal upgrades in Lou Williams and James Johnson (as compared to Nando De Colo and Steve Novak). They're bench again was a huge part of their success last year, so adding a little more depth to that should count for similar results.

NYK:
I have two issues here. I love the move in bringing in Phil, but I am not sure how well Fisher will do with that team. Secondly, depth is a huge issue. Their SG situation is amazing (I'm looking forward to THJ getting tons of minutes), but the rest really isn't that good. You still have terrible defenders in Bargnani and Calderon starting, and Dalembert just really isn't that good anymore. I can see them competing, but I don't think they make it to the playoffs.

DoMeFavors
07-13-2014, 01:54 PM
Larry Brown?.... hahahahahaha what are you talking about?

and by the way, your argument can apply to any coach ever. you can say Larry Brown was lucky to get Chauncey Billups, Sheed, Tayshaun Prince, Danny Manning etc.

Billups,Sheed,RIP were players nobody wanted and Brown turned their careers around. He also had one of the best defenses in history

slashsnake
07-13-2014, 01:56 PM
Lionel is a good coach. Don't try to downplay that. He did great with that squad of his and it took a lot from the next coach to get them back to respectable standards.

respectable yes. good sure, not great. Not elite. Not a guy you'd fire your coach for. Give him a team with talent and he won't let it blow up.

mjt20mik
07-13-2014, 01:57 PM
How are Charlotte, Atlanta, Toronto on there and not Brooklyn?

There really isn't much depth with BK. Their bench is thin, and its not like all of their starters are amazing. JJ is a stud. I really like Brook, but the injuries are just too much at this point. Deron is a shad of himself, and always seems to be either fighting injuries or taking himself outta the game. KG is just useless. Then off the bench, who do they have? Jack is a decent backup, and Plumlee has potential, but a 7 man rotation isn't gonna cut it.

TheMightyHumph
07-13-2014, 02:02 PM
How are Charlotte, Atlanta, Toronto on there and not Brooklyn?

You don't know why Toronto is there?

TheMightyHumph
07-13-2014, 02:06 PM
Billups,Sheed,RIP were players nobody wanted and Brown turned their careers around. He also had one of the best defenses in history

Billups was wanted. TWolves let him slip through their fingers. Jordan didn't want RIP, but he was a player. And Dumars knew they needed 'Shweed, and went to great lengths to get him.

TheMightyHumph
07-13-2014, 02:10 PM
Brooklyn wanted to win, and fast.


New York has always been a Knicks town, more so then it's a Yankees town (Mets draw fans too) . When the Nets moved to Brooklyn, they wanted to win right off the bat (i'm talking make the playoffs here) to establish a market presence/build up the team to lure free agents.

That's why they were willing to temporarily mortgage their future.



(fwiw, all this is from a Lowe podcast I listened to recently)

I said fom the beginning Nets should have not traded for 'stars', beginning with Deron. Should have held onto picks, youth and capspace and went into Brooklyn with their own identity, not Proky's.

Brooklyn has a very small fanbase right now, and it's hard to improve on that when your team is a joke.

TheMightyHumph
07-13-2014, 02:13 PM
Diaw was better on PHX then he ever was as a spur

Well, better stats, for which he can thank Mike D' and Steve Nash.

slashsnake
07-13-2014, 03:19 PM
Billups,Sheed,RIP were players nobody wanted and Brown turned their careers around. He also had one of the best defenses in history

Actually, Billups career was turned around the year before when he came to Detroit and played well under Rick Carlisle. Rip was a #7 overall scoring 20 a game for Detroit before Brown showed up too. Sheed sure.

I get his defense, but this was the best D in the league before he showed up there. The year before he showed up and took them to a championship they were a 50 win team that made the conference finals with the #1 scoring defense in the NBA and the reigning two time defensive player of the year. They got a healthier Ben Wallace and Tayshaun Prince with him.

ohreally
07-13-2014, 03:39 PM
prokhorov's whole strategy has been one of pure entertainment.
he brings the team to brooklyn, builds this brand new awesome arena,
so he can't put a "rebuild" team on the floor. He has to put out an entertaining one,
that isn't necessarily a competitor.

He wanted to make a splash and create this whole NY battle with the knicks...

Sadly, its put them in a situation where they are in no position to build a winner for quite a while.

Most of the teams in the NBA haven't won in a while, including the Knicks.

Nets have a good coach now, and if Lopez stays healthy I don't see why they would be much worse this year. Pierce has been one of my favorite players for a while, but he still feels he should start and end games and take the big shots, and at this point he really should be a quality bench piece. I think the Nets are better off with Teletovic getting more minutes in quality time.

Loss of Livingston and I guess Anderson hurts on D, but Teletovic and Bogdanovich should help on the offensive end and Karasev is 20, but with what was rated as a well-developed game and a high basketball IQ, so there is new blood in the mix.

Meanwhile, to date, there's no way you can really say the Knicks have improved other than that they have Phil. It is still Melo and, what exactly? Cap space next year, but no true impact player to spend it on that looks likely to be available, and the Knicks need a total rebuild. TH Jr is a streak shooter with no D, Shumpert is still a huge question mark, and basically everybody else will need to be replaced.

There are issues with the Nets core, but at least they have one that is more than one man deep.

Spurs fans can talk trash at this point, LeBron can talk trash, everybody else should just focus on their own teams and see what they have as the season plays out.

Mr.B
07-13-2014, 03:44 PM
Diaw was better on PHX then he ever was as a spur
True but he was average at best once he left Phoenix

Clippersfan86
07-13-2014, 04:10 PM
I don't know if those luxury tax number are correct but if they are I would be surprised if that Russian owner doesn't sell the team in the next year or two. Billionaires didn't become billionaires by agreeing to !owe that much money.

My bad. Overall losses were 145 million, not tax bill. Although that was still an insane 90 million.

Mr.B
07-13-2014, 04:12 PM
My bad. Overall losses were 145 million, not tax bill. Although that was still an insane 90 million.
That's just insane!

Clippersfan86
07-13-2014, 04:13 PM
I imagine the team that sold out of their team store the first day, in the biggest market in the world... would have a VERY tough time going -145 million in their first year with a roster like that. If they were in a bad market the team might of lost enough money to justify being seized by the NBA. No team has ever wasted so much money in NBA history.

Clippersfan86
07-13-2014, 04:14 PM
That's just insane!

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/grantland-exclusive-the-jason-kidd-mess-has-a-144-million-pricetag/

Wow! The Nets lost 144 million we are discussing right? Second worst loss... Wizards at 13 million. Like I said, completely nuts.



"The NBA expects nine teams will end up having lost money once luxury-tax distribution and revenue-sharing payments are finalized. The Nets, with that monster $144 million figure, are the biggest losers. Next in line? The Wizards, with projected losses of about $13 million. Thatís right: The Nets lost $131 million more than any other NBA team last season. This is what happens when you pay $90 million in luxury tax for an aging roster and play in a market so large you are ineligible to receive any revenue-sharing help."

Crackadalic
07-13-2014, 04:33 PM
From a Future standpoint it's not good. 2016 and 2018 1st rounders unprotected and 2015 and 2017 is a swap

They have a few 2nd rounders but a lot of it comes from after there main core is expiring

Deron Williams for his contract is a huge fail. The fact that Livingston was a better point guard last year says a lot

Joe Johnson outside of Clutch moments just isn't worth it at the contract he has now

Lopez is the best offensive center but he played 96 games the last three seasons

The Pierce/Garnett trade blew up because they gave up so much to win last season and now Pierce is gone and Kg is in retired mode

There only bang for buck players are AK47 who will be ask to play a lot more at 32 who is leaving in 2015

Jarret Jack who I despise is on the books till 2016

Mason Plumlee and Mirza are really solid players

The other issue is outside of those young players and Jack they have no tradable assets to get better because of two players making 20+ mil for a few years and a injury prone center

There best bet was to win now in a so called weak eastern conference and failed. With the east as a whole getting stronger they pretty are stuck at what the op has stated "purgatory"

Chronz
07-13-2014, 05:05 PM
Lionel is a good coach. Don't try to downplay that. He did great with that squad of his and it took a lot from the next coach to get them back to respectable standards.

Actually he did a pretty mediocre job, took too long to make OBVIOUS adjustments in the playoffs, questioned his management when they actually made a move that made the team better despite his lack of judgement. He was so mediocre that the next coach didn't have to do much of anything to get the team back at a high level, unless you call waiting for Gasol to get healthy alot of work.

Seizabmc
07-13-2014, 11:28 PM
The nets are garbage and are on a one way trip to nowhere.