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View Full Version : Houston Signs Ariza for 4 ys, 32 million



B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-12-2014, 05:32 PM
488073350808629248

Aust
07-12-2014, 05:34 PM
Didn't Morey ship his *** out of there? Why is he going back for only 8? All I've been hearing is that there would be bidding wars for Trevor and he would get 10-12

Ariza signed a five-year, $34 million deal with the Rockets earlier in his career and now he's signing a 4 year 32m deal. That's interesting.

gatkins11
07-12-2014, 05:35 PM
They'll probably match Parsons too. Fug.

Htownballa1622
07-12-2014, 05:35 PM
Solid wing defense needed. Hope we bring back parsons.

gatkins11
07-12-2014, 05:37 PM
Solid wing defense needed. Hope we bring back parsons.

It's bound to happen.

Htownballa1622
07-12-2014, 05:43 PM
It's bound to happen.
I think it's still being decided but we shall see. Rox do play 4 out 1 in a lot.

SILVER SEAVER
07-12-2014, 05:44 PM
It's the offseason of Homecoming signings.

Blitzace137
07-12-2014, 05:44 PM
So who's gonna come off the bench if they match Parsons?

Blitzace137
07-12-2014, 05:45 PM
Parsons defensively can't play the 4 imo not big enough

Kaner
07-12-2014, 05:45 PM
Great pickup for Houston if this happens and was the one I thought they shoud make even before they were out of the Melo sweepstakes.

They can still match Parsons and start him at PF, That starting 5 would have alot of shooting and could still be the best starting 5 in the nba. Ariza adds the wing defense Houston so desperately needed and Houston's better all around. If they don't match Parsons I still think they could be better off with Ariza then Parsons all though it'd be about a lateral move that's coming at 7mil a year cheaper.

cheetos185
07-12-2014, 05:47 PM
So whose playing SF

Mr.B
07-12-2014, 05:48 PM
They'll probably match Parsons too. Fug.
Actually I think the fact they signed Ariza is a sign they are going to let Parsons walk.

jerellh528
07-12-2014, 05:49 PM
I think parsons should come off the bench. He's easily a better player than ariza but they have plenty of scoring in the starting lineup and ariZas defense will be big. Parson can cake walk to the 6th man award

NYKNYGNYY
07-12-2014, 05:51 PM
Actually I think the fact they signed Ariza is a sign they are going to let Parsons walk.

Me to honestly I'd almost rather have ariza...idk why

Verbal Christ
07-12-2014, 05:52 PM
Ariza does everything Parsons does PLUS play defense. For half the price? No brainer for Morey. I highly doubt they will bring back Parsons, why would Ariza sign to be a backup when he could have easily took a deal elsewhere to start?

Nikeman
07-12-2014, 05:52 PM
Ariza will be a damn good 6th man.

Hopefully Houston adds some quality bench pieces with the max money they had set for Bosh.

Then re-sign Parsons and have a deep, deep roster.

OR

Houston re-signs Parsons and then does a S&T with Dallas?

But who would Dallas give up..

clutchfan
07-12-2014, 05:55 PM
Actually I think the fact they signed Ariza is a sign they are going to let Parsons walk.

Nope. We'll match. Morey is just waiting until the last minute just to f over cuban.

ThuglifeJ
07-12-2014, 05:55 PM
Things got interesting.

Cuban vs Morey written all over this Parsons decision..

ThuglifeJ
07-12-2014, 05:56 PM
Actually I think the fact they signed Ariza is a sign they are going to let Parsons walk.

Nope. We'll match. Morey is just waiting until the last minute just to f over cuban.

Wouldn't say he'd f ing over cuban seeing as cuban got him go spend 15 million on him..

Nikeman
07-12-2014, 05:58 PM
Things got interesting.

Cuban vs Morey written all over this Parsons decision..

Yup, he took Ariza, and if by tomorrow night Lance Stephenson is committed, and Houston matches, they have screwed over the Mavs.

mightybosstone
07-12-2014, 05:59 PM
I freaking love this signing for Houston. Not only did Houston add the perimeter defense they desperately needed, but they got one of the 2-3 best player left in free agency at far less than the market would dictate. I'm not sure how this will impact the Parsons offer sheet. On one hand, McHale loves his small ball lineup, and I could see the Rockets going with a Beverley/Harden/Ariza/Parsons/Dwight lineup for 15-20 minutes a night. Plus, Ariza could get plenty of minutes behind Parsons and Harden. On the other hand, Ariza can provide slighlty less point production as Parsons with better 3-point shooting and far better defense at half the cost.

I see the pros and cons to matching Parsons, but one thing is for sure. This was a great deal for Morey and the Rockets, who really needed a win after losing out on Bosh. I'm feeling a hell of a lot better about this offseason already.

clutchfan
07-12-2014, 05:59 PM
Yup, he took Ariza, and if by tomorrow night Lance Stephenson is committed, and Houston matches, they have screwed over the Mavs.

Yep

ThuglifeJ
07-12-2014, 06:00 PM
Things got interesting.

Cuban vs Morey written all over this Parsons decision..

Yup, he took Ariza, and if by tomorrow night Lance Stephenson is committed, and Houston matches, they have screwed over the Mavs.

I still think they'd both have ****ed each other.. Raising a contract to 15 mil doesn't help rockets

LAKobeBryant
07-12-2014, 06:00 PM
they should try to get boozer instead of matching parsons

Shammyguy3
07-12-2014, 06:00 PM
That's a great price for Ariza, really thought he was gonna get a $40M/4y deal

ThuglifeJ
07-12-2014, 06:02 PM
I freaking love this signing for Houston. Not only did Houston add the perimeter defense they desperately needed, but they got one of the 2-3 best player left in free agency at far less than the market would dictate. I'm not sure how this will impact the Parsons offer sheet. On one hand, McHale loves his small ball lineup, and I could see the Rockets going with a Beverley/Harden/Ariza/Parsons/Dwight lineup for 15-20 minutes a night. Plus, Ariza could get plenty of minutes behind Parsons and Harden. On the other hand, Ariza can provide slighlty less point production as Parsons with better 3-point shooting and far better defense at half the cost.

I see the pros and cons to matching Parsons, but one thing is for sure. This was a great deal for Morey and the Rockets, who really needed a win after losing out on Bosh. I'm feeling a hell of a lot better about this offseason already.

Lol.
You really love your rockets I'll give you that.

smith&wesson
07-12-2014, 06:02 PM
has Morey lost his marbles ? he has looked like such an *** in this free agency periord. first he struck out on Melo, then Bosh, now he is going after Ariza, and intends to match Parsons offer sheet ?? so whos coming off the bench at the 3 then ? I dont get what the gm is doing over there in Houston. usually he is so calculated.

ThuglifeJ
07-12-2014, 06:04 PM
has Morey lost his marbles ? he has looked like such an *** in this free agency periord. first he struck out on Melo, then Bosh, now he is going after Ariza, and intends to match Parsons offer sheet ?? so whos coming off the bench at the 3 then ? I dont get what the gm is doing over there in Houston. usually he is so calculated.

Cuban + Morey + Ego = this offseason

Nikeman
07-12-2014, 06:04 PM
has Morey lost his marbles ? he has looked like such an *** in this free agency periord. first he struck out on Melo, then Bosh, now he is going after Ariza, and intends to match Parsons offer sheet ?? so whos coming off the bench at the 3 then ? I dont get what the gm is doing over there in Houston. usually he is so calculated.

Who is coming off the bench at he 3? Ariza lol

Htownballa1622
07-12-2014, 06:05 PM
We just got Ariza at the same price as Avery Bradley.

Asik's better
07-12-2014, 06:05 PM
Good signing. The next 24 hours will be interesting.

NYKNYGNYY
07-12-2014, 06:05 PM
They're one of my favorites to win the west b most likely the title..:harden n Howard another year together ...mcchale maybe can coach em better .... Need to upgrade the bench but if not for SAS they're my favorite out the west

mightybosstone
07-12-2014, 06:08 PM
has Morey lost his marbles ? he has looked like such an *** in this free agency periord. first he struck out on Melo, then Bosh, now he is going after Ariza, and intends to match Parsons offer sheet ?? so whos coming off the bench at the 3 then ? I dont get what the gm is doing over there in Houston. usually he is so calculated.

And all of the things Morey has done have made sense. He needed cap space and Asik and Lin weren't in the Rockets long-term plans so he got rid of them and got a solid asset in return (New Orleans pick). He tried to get two star players, but ultimately they chose to move elsewhere. And when all of that was done, he knew he wasn't getting a star but could still improve a rotation that had some major holes last season. Two of the Rockets biggest weaknesses last season were perimeter defense and a lack of competent 3-point shooters. Ariza helps big time in both regards.

Whether or not Houston matches Parsons I don't know. But Ariza undeniably makes them a better basketball team and he could have gotten even more money than that if he was really trying to get it.

Nikeman
07-12-2014, 06:08 PM
Good signing. The next 24 hours will be interesting.

If I'm Houston, I try and sign another big name player with 8 million, then go ahead and match Parsons. Get that Rockets team some damn good depth.

Get a Kris Humphires, Blatche and Jameer Nelson for the remaining 12 million you guys have, sign Parsons.

Beverely
Harden
Parsons
Humphires
Howard

Bench:

Blatche
Terrence Jones
Ariza
Nelson

Mr.B
07-12-2014, 06:09 PM
I wouldn't really make sense for them to match Parsons now. They would be better off looking for a stretch 4 or even trading for Gordon. Plus Ariza wants to start. No way he would have agreed to sign to be a backup. I guess its possible they could have promised Ariza that he'll start only to f him over and match the Parsons deal.

nytunnelvision
07-12-2014, 06:11 PM
I freaking love this signing for Houston. Not only did Houston add the perimeter defense they desperately needed, but they got one of the 2-3 best player left in free agency at far less than the market would dictate. I'm not sure how this will impact the Parsons offer sheet. On one hand, McHale loves his small ball lineup, and I could see the Rockets going with a Beverley/Harden/Ariza/Parsons/Dwight lineup for 15-20 minutes a night. Plus, Ariza could get plenty of minutes behind Parsons and Harden. On the other hand, Ariza can provide slighlty less point production as Parsons with better 3-point shooting and far better defense at half the cost.

I see the pros and cons to matching Parsons, but one thing is for sure. This was a great deal for Morey and the Rockets, who really needed a win after losing out on Bosh. I'm feeling a hell of a lot better about this offseason already.

Agreed, great deal, especially for Houston's style of offense.

Is it too early to say Nick Johnson instead of Beverly?

And is it that McHale loves the small ball lineup, or Morey pushes that 4-in, 1-out, 3s & layups philosophy?

astrosmaniac
07-12-2014, 06:14 PM
Agreed, great deal, especially for Houston's style of offense.

Is it too early to say Nick Johnson instead of Beverly?

And is it that McHale loves the small ball lineup, or Morey pushes that 4-in, 1-out, 3s & layups philosophy?

yes it is. Johnson was a 2nd round pick who hasn't played a minute, and Beverly was the starter on a 54 win playoff team and all 2nd team defense. I like Johnson, but that's way premature.

McHale definitely loves the small ball.

Htownballa1622
07-12-2014, 06:15 PM
If I'm Houston, I try and sign another big name player with 8 million, then go ahead and match Parsons. Get that Rockets team some damn good depth.

Get a Kris Humphires, Blatche and Jameer Nelson for the remaining 12 million you guys have, sign Parsons.

Beverely
Harden
Parsons
Humphires
Howard

Bench:

Blatche
Terrence Jones
Ariza
Nelson

Well said.

P&GRealist
07-12-2014, 06:15 PM
Good signing. The next 24 hours will be interesting.

Good signing ? Just so you guys can use him and trade him next summer and tell him to kick rocks like you did when u signed him in 2009 and dumped him to NOLA in 2010.

That's what Morey does, use and abuse them. Sign them, trade them away, just to sign them again, and trade them away again. Did the same with Aaron Brooks and Goran Dragic multiple times. Almost did the same by trying to lure Kyle Lowry back this summer.

smith&wesson
07-12-2014, 06:16 PM
Who is coming off the bench at he 3? Ariza lol

Ariza is more of a starter, a two way player who can gaurd the apposing teams best wing player... its not like he can come off the bench and drop 20 to provide a scoring punch. the move doesnt make much sense unless ofcourse you think its wise for them to spend that much money on 1 bench player when they have bigger needs.

mightybosstone
07-12-2014, 06:17 PM
Is it too early to say Nick Johnson instead of Beverly?
Definitely. I love what I've seen from that kid in college and in the Summer League, but Beverley is one of the best defensive point guards in the league and he fits the Rockets roster like a glove. I do think Johnson will crack the roster at some point this season and maybe even the 9-10 man rotation.


And is it that McHale loves the small ball lineup, or Morey pushes that 4-in, 1-out, 3s & layups philosophy?
I think it has a lot to do with the Rockets personnel. Yeah, Morey targets guys who fits the style of basketball he wants to see the team play. But I also think McHale seems to push small b all pretty regularly. If McHale didn't want to play small ball last season, he had Jones and Motiejunas at his disposal, but the team just played better basketball in those lineups and he really liked playing small ball because of the edge it gave Houston offensively.

smith&wesson
07-12-2014, 06:19 PM
And all of the things Morey has done have made sense. He needed cap space and Asik and Lin weren't in the Rockets long-term plans so he got rid of them and got a solid asset in return (New Orleans pick). He tried to get two star players, but ultimately they chose to move elsewhere. And when all of that was done, he knew he wasn't getting a star but could still improve a rotation that had some major holes last season. Two of the Rockets biggest weaknesses last season were perimeter defense and a lack of competent 3-point shooters. Ariza helps big time in both regards.

Whether or not Houston matches Parsons I don't know. But Ariza undeniably makes them a better basketball team and he could have gotten even more money than that if he was really trying to get it.

I agree that Ariza was a good get, I dont think they should match Parsons offersheet.

1. Ariza can start and be a nice piece along side harden on the wings.. 2. Parsons contract is too large and that money could be spent on other pieces that could help the rockets further. I dont see the need for both Parsons and Ariza, and especially not at the price tag Parsons would come with.

smith&wesson
07-12-2014, 06:20 PM
If I'm Houston, I try and sign another big name player with 8 million, then go ahead and match Parsons. Get that Rockets team some damn good depth.

Get a Kris Humphires, Blatche and Jameer Nelson for the remaining 12 million you guys have, sign Parsons.

Beverely
Harden
Parsons
Humphires
Howard

Bench:

Blatche
Terrence Jones
Ariza
Nelson

I thought Jones was great last season, why is he being demoted to the bench for Humphries of all people ?

5ass
07-12-2014, 06:20 PM
Good signing ? Just so you guys can use him and trade him next summer and tell him to kick rocks like you did when u signed him in 2009 and dumped him to NOLA in 2010.

That's what Morey does, use and abuse them. Sign them, trade them away, just to sign them again, and trade them away again. Did the same with Aaron Brooks and Goran Dragic multiple times. Almost did the same by trying to lure Kyle Lowry back this summer.

:laugh:

rockets-fan
07-12-2014, 06:21 PM
Morey better not match...let Parsons go. If he wanted to be a Rocket he wouldn't have signed as soon as he could. He wants to be a Maverick. Let him, we will start Ariza at the 3 and sign a few good bench pieces and roll with that into the season. No need to have Ariza/Parsons fighting for starting minutes.

I love Parsons. He's my favorite player and IMO a better player than Ariza, but he got overpaid and he doesn't want to be here obviously. We lose a but if scoring ability but add DEFENSE! Which is what we lack, now adress the bench and I'll be good

rockets-fan
07-12-2014, 06:22 PM
:laugh:

Not Dragic

clutchfan
07-12-2014, 06:24 PM
It would be hilarious if we signed Marion.

mightybosstone
07-12-2014, 06:26 PM
2. Parsons contract is too large and that money could be spent on other pieces that could help the rockets further. I dont see the need for both Parsons and Ariza, and especially not at the price tag Parsons would come with.
This is a misnomer, though. Morey can STILL add other pieces with the remaining $10 million or so they have left. Matching Parsons' contract does not impact his ability to add other guys. It kills their cap for next year, but who cares? After this signing, the Rockets won't have enough cap to offer anything close to a max deal next offseason anyway. Keeping Parsons just makes far more sense right now than not keeping him. If you have a chance to be far more talented and keep your core of players in tact, you do it.

smith&wesson
07-12-2014, 06:28 PM
Morey better not match...let Parsons go. If he wanted to be a Rocket he wouldn't have signed as soon as he could. He wants to be a Maverick. Let him, we will start Ariza at the 3 and sign a few good bench pieces and roll with that into the season. No need to have Ariza/Parsons fighting for starting minutes.

I love Parsons. He's my favorite player and IMO a better player than Ariza, but he got overpaid and he doesn't want to be here obviously. We lose a but if scoring ability but add DEFENSE! Which is what we lack, now adress the bench and I'll be good

+1

Dallas is trying to give Parsons a poison pill contract, hoping houston matches. if Houston doesnt match and Parsons goes to Dallas on that bloated contract does Dallas really get all that much better ? nope they dont.

But if Houston Matches they hamstring themselves from improving further. With Ariza they really dont need Parsons or that poison pill contract that would hamstring them for years to come. They are much better off with out Parsons imo and either keeping their flexabilty or targeting someone else that could improve them further at a much more reasonable amount.

smith&wesson
07-12-2014, 06:30 PM
This is a misnomer, though. Morey can STILL add other pieces with the remaining $10 million or so they have left. Matching Parsons' contract does not impact his ability to add other guys. It kills their cap for next year, but who cares? After this signing, the Rockets won't have enough cap to offer anything close to a max deal next offseason anyway. Keeping Parsons just makes far more sense right now than not keeping him. If you have a chance to be far more talented and keep your core of players in tact, you do it.

who cares ? why would you not care if your team blows all that money on a player they dont need ? wouldnt you rather see the money go to a player or players that improve the roster further ?

mightybosstone
07-12-2014, 06:31 PM
Good signing ? Just so you guys can use him and trade him next summer and tell him to kick rocks like you did when u signed him in 2009 and dumped him to NOLA in 2010.
He underachieved when the Rockets first signed him to that deal and Morey wanted to get out from under his contract. This is a different situation. Morey was paying for potential back then. Now he's paying for stability as Ariza has matured much more as a basketball player.


That's what Morey does, use and abuse them. Sign them, trade them away, just to sign them again, and trade them away again. Did the same with Aaron Brooks and Goran Dragic multiple times. Almost did the same by trying to lure Kyle Lowry back this summer.
You're just blatantly wrong with Dragic. Dragic was an UFA and signed with Phoenix. As for Brooks and Lowry, both guys got traded because they essentially got hurt, missed huge chunks of time, got outperformed by their backup (Lowry and Dragic) and then complained constantly about their minutes when they got back. Morey didn't deal those guys because he wanted to. He dealt them because they were disgruntled and it wasn't good for team morale anymore. Plus he got some damn good assets for them and they weren't contributing at the level they initially were.

smith&wesson
07-12-2014, 06:32 PM
It would be hilarious if we signed Marion.

It would be smart,

1. Marion could be had for the mle or less.
2. Ariza can start, and have a more than capable back up in Marion
3. The rockets sustain flexability to target other players now or next year to get even deeper
4. they screw Dallas by taking Marion on a cheap deal, and they would be stuck with Parsons on a bloated deal with no back up in VC or Marion. Houston would be wise to screw the Mavs in this way.

Htownballa1622
07-12-2014, 06:33 PM
This would be awesome if we matched Parsons imo.

WE need talent. It's not like we aren't going to be above cap anyway.

Bring back parsons and then it enables us to keep these guys from Dallas.

HEck. Bring over Marion too and then :moon: Cuban.

Verbal Christ
07-12-2014, 06:33 PM
Good signing ? Just so you guys can use him and trade him next summer and tell him to kick rocks like you did when u signed him in 2009 and dumped him to NOLA in 2010.

That's what Morey does, use and abuse them. Sign them, trade them away, just to sign them again, and trade them away again. Did the same with Aaron Brooks and Goran Dragic multiple times. Almost did the same by trying to lure Kyle Lowry back this summer.

Heavy flow day? Ariza could have signed anywhere he wanted. He CHOSE the Rockets. What is your agenda against anything and everything HOuston?

mightybosstone
07-12-2014, 06:34 PM
who cares ? why would you not care if your team blows all that money on a player they dont need ? wouldnt you rather see the money go to a player or players that improve the roster further ?

Have you seen the free agency class next year? It's horrible. The two guys Houston could feasibly add that would make a significant difference are Aldridge and Love. Except Aldridge has already clearly stated he wants to re-sign with Portland and a ton of other teams are trying for a sign and trade with Love right now. I'd MUCH rather have a 100% chance of keeping Chandler Parsons today than a 5-10% change of possibly adding Love or Aldridge a year from now. And that's a pretty generous percentage.

brandt
07-12-2014, 06:35 PM
Good signing ? Just so you guys can use him and trade him next summer and tell him to kick rocks like you did when u signed him in 2009 and dumped him to NOLA in 2010.

That's what Morey does, use and abuse them. Sign them, trade them away, just to sign them again, and trade them away again. Did the same with Aaron Brooks and Goran Dragic multiple times. Almost did the same by trying to lure Kyle Lowry back this summer.

It's a business dude! Obviously, Trevor's not that bitter about it as well as these other guys, if they re signed with the Rockets in the first place.

tr3ymill3r
07-12-2014, 06:36 PM
Good contract to be traded before 2016 too.

mightybosstone
07-12-2014, 06:38 PM
It would be smart,

1. Marion could be had for the mle or less.
That's debatable, but possible if he's willing to leave Dallas and play for a contender.


2. Ariza can start, and have a more than capable back up in Marion
Or Parsons could start and have a capable backup in Ariza. :shrug:


3. The rockets sustain flexability to target other players now or next year to get even deeper
See, this is the part that I don't think you're grasping. If Houston doesn't keep Parsons, once they fill out their roster, they'll have maybe $6-8 million in cap space. If they add Marion, it would be substantially less. So by next season they'll already be over the salary cap and will have literally zero chance at marquee free agents. So really, swapping Parsons for Marion provides very little difference in terms of cap flexibility. Hell, I'd rather be over the cap than a few million under the cap, because at least then Houston can get the full MLE (I think).


4. they screw Dallas by taking Marion on a cheap deal, and they would be stuck with Parsons on a bloated deal with no back up in VC or Marion. Houston would be wise to screw the Mavs in this way.
This is true. And it's definitely attractive. But it's also possible that Parsons lives up to his contract in Dallas and that the Rockets seriously regret not paying a young, beloved player when they had the chance to.

DR_1
07-12-2014, 06:42 PM
Ya this is a good move if they don't want to match Parsons (I wouldn't).

sep11ie
07-12-2014, 06:52 PM
Good signing ? Just so you guys can use him and trade him next summer and tell him to kick rocks like you did when u signed him in 2009 and dumped him to NOLA in 2010.

That's what Morey does, use and abuse them. Sign them, trade them away, just to sign them again, and trade them away again. Did the same with Aaron Brooks and Goran Dragic multiple times. Almost did the same by trying to lure Kyle Lowry back this summer.

He never trade Dragic, nice try though.

shep33
07-12-2014, 06:54 PM
Yeah, I don't get this. Probably not bringing back Parsons.

I think Ariza is overrated. Contract year in the crappy east.

hugepatsfan
07-12-2014, 06:58 PM
If you get Ariza from last year this is a terrific deal for the Rockets. But Ariza was not very good for the 4 years prior than that. Who is the real Ariza?

goingfor28
07-12-2014, 07:00 PM
So whose playing SF
Ariza and Parsons. Neither big enough to play the 4. Will be a good set to go small w at times tho

smith&wesson
07-12-2014, 07:00 PM
That's debatable, but possible if he's willing to leave Dallas and play for a contender.


Or Parsons could start and have a capable backup in Ariza. :shrug:


See, this is the part that I don't think you're grasping. If Houston doesn't keep Parsons, once they fill out their roster, they'll have maybe $6-8 million in cap space. If they add Marion, it would be substantially less. So by next season they'll already be over the salary cap and will have literally zero chance at marquee free agents. So really, swapping Parsons for Marion provides very little difference in terms of cap flexibility. Hell, I'd rather be over the cap than a few million under the cap, because at least then Houston can get the full MLE (I think).


This is true. And it's definitely attractive. But it's also possible that Parsons lives up to his contract in Dallas and that the Rockets seriously regret not paying a young, beloved player when they had the chance to.

this signing would not be a good thing for your team brother. Having Parsons and Ariza would be reduntant and you guys would be breaking the bank to have that pairing.. having them both would not elevate the team considreably like the pay checks suggests. imo you guys would be wise to walk away from that poison pill contract.

rockets-fan
07-12-2014, 07:01 PM
Ariza and Parsons. Neither big enough to play the 4. Will be a good set to go small w at times tho

We're not matching Paraons, hence the Ariza signing.

goingfor28
07-12-2014, 07:02 PM
We're not matching Paraons, hence the Ariza signing.
Gotcha. I assumed they would match and sign ariza w all that cap space :shrug:

rockets-fan
07-12-2014, 07:03 PM
If you get Ariza from last year this is a terrific deal for the Rockets. But Ariza was not very good for the 4 years prior than that. Who is the real Ariza?

He is perfect for the Rockets tho don't you think? Space the floor and play defense. Doesn't have to create for himself or be a top scoring option. Just hit the open shots.

Honestly the tram downgrades offensively but upgrades defensively with this move. We will see what else Morey has planned, if anything.

smith&wesson
07-12-2014, 07:04 PM
Yeah, I don't get this. Probably not bringing back Parsons.

I think Ariza is overrated. Contract year in the crappy east.

Parsons is over rated as well + soon grossly over paid. Id take Ariza on a much more reasonable deal over parsons, if had to over pay by 7 million per year to keep him. He isnt worth it, and the rockets no longer really need him so why be hardpressed to match that ridic offer from the mavs. Dallas shoots them self in the foot if the Rockets dont match.

clutchfan
07-12-2014, 07:04 PM
We're not matching Paraons, hence the Ariza signing.

Yes we are.

rockets-fan
07-12-2014, 07:08 PM
Gotcha. I assumed they would match and sign ariza w all that cap space :shrug:

A lot of people are assuming that, even experts.

As of now we don't have "a ton" of cap space. The Asik deal hasn't gone through so we only have like 1 million until we move him. Now if we move him then we can add quality pieces AND match parsons. But if it's between matching Parsons and signings depth, I want depth. No need to have 2 SFs with no real starting PF or bench depth.

Just my opinion but I honestly think Ariza is Parsons replacement. Like I said before , downgraded the team offensive wise, but upgraded it defense wise.

smith&wesson
07-12-2014, 07:08 PM
Yes we are.

dont be suprised when they dont.

mightybosstone
07-12-2014, 07:10 PM
Parsons is over rated as well + soon grossly over paid. Id take Ariza on a much more reasonable deal over parsons, if had to over pay by 7 million per year to keep him. He isnt worth it, and the rockets no longer really need him so why be hardpressed to match that ridic offer from the mavs. Dallas shoots them self in the foot if the Rockets dont match.

Except its not redundant. Houston plays a lot of small ball basketball and I could easily see Ariza getting 30 minutes a game in Houston with Parsons still on the roster. Parsons is getting overpaid on this contract, but Houston could not feasibly sign a better basketball player than him right now with what's left in free agency. Sometimes the NBA boils down to talent and Parsons is an extremely talented young player. You don't give that up.

smith&wesson
07-12-2014, 07:10 PM
A lot of people are assuming that, even experts.

As of now we don't have "a ton" of cap space. The Asik deal hasn't gone through so we only have like 1 million until we move him. Now if we move him then we can add quality pieces AND match parsons. But if it's between matching Parsons and signings depth, I want depth. No need to have 2 SFs with no real starting PF or bench depth.

Just my opinion but I honestly think Ariza is Parsons replacement. Like I said before , downgraded the team offensive wise, but upgraded it defense wise.

+1, logical! I think what you are saying is a no brainer and suprised other fans dont see it the same way.

rockets-fan
07-12-2014, 07:11 PM
Yes we are.

Why would we do that?! To have a lineup of

Bev
Harden
Ariza
Parsons
Howard

And get raped by LMA, Dirk, Duncan,Griffin, Lee,Love, and that's just the west PFs.

Trade Asik for a Pf, sign Anderson, and Nelson THEN keeping Parsons seems smart but not if he is out starting SF.

I just don't see either of these guys coming off the bench

sf-fanatic
07-12-2014, 07:14 PM
If they match parsons, that's probably their core for the next few years with minimal flexibility. I doubt they match.

smith&wesson
07-12-2014, 07:15 PM
Except its not redundant. Houston plays a lot of small ball basketball and I could easily see Ariza getting 30 minutes a game in Houston with Parsons still on the roster. Parsons is getting overpaid on this contract, but Houston could not feasibly sign a better basketball player than him right now with what's left in free agency. Sometimes the NBA boils down to talent and Parsons is an extremely talented young player. You don't give that up.

take for example, Bledsoe who could play the pg and sg.. why not target someone like him for maybe even less money than Parsons ... and also still be able to sign someone like Marion?? how is that not a better scenerio for Houston ?

mightybosstone
07-12-2014, 07:17 PM
A lot of people are assuming that, even experts.

As of now we don't have "a ton" of cap space. The Asik deal hasn't gone through so we only have like 1 million until we move him. Now if we move him then we can add quality pieces AND match parsons. But if it's between matching Parsons and signings depth, I want depth. No need to have 2 SFs with no real starting PF or bench depth.

Just my opinion but I honestly think Ariza is Parsons replacement. Like I said before , downgraded the team offensive wise, but upgraded it defense wise.

The Asik deal is still going to go through. They're just waiting on New Orleans to add the necessary space. But you're incorrect in thinking that if the Asik deal doesn't go through that Houston could use Parson's cap space to add depth. Not true. If Houston has Asik and Ariza on the roster, the Rockets essentially nave no cap space leftover whatsoever. Parsons does not impact the Rockets salary cap situation at all until the Rockets actually match the offers sheet.

smith&wesson
07-12-2014, 07:19 PM
If they match parsons, that's probably their core for the next few years with minimal flexibility. I doubt they match.

and they shouldnt... that contract is just gross. it would be as stupid as the Jazz matching Hayword. just dumb. I believe Morey is smarter than that.

hugepatsfan
07-12-2014, 07:19 PM
He is perfect for the Rockets tho don't you think? Space the floor and play defense. Doesn't have to create for himself or be a top scoring option. Just hit the open shots.

Honestly the tram downgrades offensively but upgrades defensively with this move. We will see what else Morey has planned, if anything.

Yeah I think having Dwight and Harden there will help him. Parsons too if he's there. But it's not like Ariza's struggles in the past were due to being relied on to be a top option. That's never been the case. For most of his career he's already been in the 3rd-4th option role. The 1 and 2 options in HOU are better than anything he's ever had though except for in LA with Kobe/Pau when he was very young. On the floor spacing thing… he shot 41% last year which is awesome. The year before that he was at 36% which is pretty good (but not great). Prior to that, he was never very good as a 3point shooter, sitting in the 30-33% range. The Rockets need that 40% to be part of an upward trend and not just an outlier. I don't expect him to go back to being 30-33% but if he ends up settling somewhere in between those 36% and 41% numbers that changes perspective a lot compared to if he's really become a year in and year out 40% 3 point shooter.

I like the contract because $8 mil a year isn't an exorbitant number but I don't view this as the perfect slam dunk awesome steal of a signing that some people are making it out to be.

Redrum187
07-12-2014, 07:20 PM
This is an amazing consolation prize for missing out on the big FAs for the Houston Rockets. 8 million isn't bad at all for Ariza and he provides good shooting (his past two seasons anyways, he's below-average career 3-point shooter), and plays really good defense.

Chandler Parsons is the better player, but Ariza is the better fit for Houston at much less the price. I think Dallas and Houston come out winners here (assuming Houston doesn't match... I doubt they do at this point).

mightybosstone
07-12-2014, 07:20 PM
take for example, Bledsoe who could play the pg and sg.. why not target someone like him for maybe even less money than Parsons ... and also still be able to sign someone like Marion?? how is that not a better scenerio for Houston ?
Two reasons why. First, he's a RFA and the Suns are almost certain to match any offer on him. I'd rather have a 100% chance of keeping Parsons than a 10-20% chance of adding Bledsoe. Secondly, the Rockets cannot add Bledsoe for anything over probably $10 million a year right now, because that's about how much rap room they have if the Asik deal ever gets finalized. I see him making way more money than that in this market.

rockets-fan
07-12-2014, 07:27 PM
The Asik deal is still going to go through. They're just waiting on New Orleans to add the necessary space. But you're incorrect in thinking that if the Asik deal doesn't go through that Houston could use Parson's cap space to add depth. Not true. If Houston has Asik and Ariza on the roster, the Rockets essentially nave no cap space leftover whatsoever. Parsons does not impact the Rockets salary cap situation at all until the Rockets actually match the offers sheet.

I understand that, I know we can't keep Asik and have cap space to sign other depth. Asik would be the depth I was talking about. Or when the deal goes through, using Asiks empty cap to sign depth. Why have Parsons and Ariza fighting over minutes, I just don't see parsons starting at PF. 10-15 mins a night sure but not a starter there

hugepatsfan
07-12-2014, 07:31 PM
Ariza and Parsons could play together as the SG/SF, not just the SF/PF. They each get 24 minutes a night at SF. Parsons gets another 10 at PF and Ariza gets another 10 at SG. 34 minutes a night for each of them. Bam.

RLundi
07-12-2014, 07:33 PM
Ariza is overrated, and not a great shooter. From 3, he shot well last year but I'd beware of an aberration and the fact it was a contract year from him.

He'll regress to the mean next year, and Houston will just trade him again. This offseason, Morey's gambling and moves have not been great. He's pretty much outsmarted himself the entire offseason.

ThuglifeJ
07-12-2014, 07:36 PM
A lot of people are assuming that, even experts.

As of now we don't have "a ton" of cap space. The Asik deal hasn't gone through so we only have like 1 million until we move him. Now if we move him then we can add quality pieces AND match parsons. But if it's between matching Parsons and signings depth, I want depth. No need to have 2 SFs with no real starting PF or bench depth.

Just my opinion but I honestly think Ariza is Parsons replacement. Like I said before , downgraded the team offensive wise, but upgraded it defense wise.

+1, logical! I think what you are saying is a no brainer and suprised other fans dont see it the same way.

What depth is even out there..?

smith&wesson
07-12-2014, 07:39 PM
Two reasons why. First, he's a RFA and the Suns are almost certain to match any offer on him. I'd rather have a 100% chance of keeping Parsons than a 10-20% chance of adding Bledsoe. Secondly, the Rockets cannot add Bledsoe for anything over probably $10 million a year right now, because that's about how much rap room they have if the Asik deal ever gets finalized. I see him making way more money than that in this market.


I could see PHX matching offers for Bledsoe before they signed Isiah Thomas, but now I can see them trying to do a s&t simply so they dont lose the asset for nothing. but if the Rockets or any team were to offer say something like 12-13 million per year I highly doubt PHX matches, because if they did they would be stuck with a rotation Isiah Thomas, Dragic, Ennis, & Bledsoe... too many undersized gaurds there.

ThuglifeJ
07-12-2014, 07:41 PM
It would be smart,

1. Marion could be had for the mle or less.
That's debatable, but possible if he's willing to leave Dallas and play for a contender.


2. Ariza can start, and have a more than capable back up in Marion
Or Parsons could start and have a capable backup in Ariza. :shrug:


3. The rockets sustain flexability to target other players now or next year to get even deeper
See, this is the part that I don't think you're grasping. If Houston doesn't keep Parsons, once they fill out their roster, they'll have maybe $6-8 million in cap space. If they add Marion, it would be substantially less. So by next season they'll already be over the salary cap and will have literally zero chance at marquee free agents. So really, swapping Parsons for Marion provides very little difference in terms of cap flexibility. Hell, I'd rather be over the cap than a few million under the cap, because at least then Houston can get the full MLE (I think).


4. they screw Dallas by taking Marion on a cheap deal, and they would be stuck with Parsons on a bloated deal with no back up in VC or Marion. Houston would be wise to screw the Mavs in this way.
This is true. And it's definitely attractive. But it's also possible that Parsons lives up to his contract in Dallas and that the Rockets seriously regret not paying a young, beloved player when they had the chance to.

Lol?? This is y we all gunned you guys when you failed on Bosh yet you cried about.. Dallas was more of a contender last playoffs than Houston. Now Houston is a contender because ARIZA.


you guys are effin ridiculous

mightybosstone
07-12-2014, 07:42 PM
I understand that, I know we can't keep Asik and have cap space to sign other depth. Asik would be the depth I was talking about. Or when the deal goes through, using Asiks empty cap to sign depth.
As long as the Ariza deal gets finalized before tomorrow at 11 p.m., Houston still has cap room to add some other pieces to work on their bench. And then there's the MLE, which I believe the Rockets can still use once they re-sign Parsons to go over the cap.


Why have Parsons and Ariza fighting over minutes, I just don't see parsons starting at PF. 10-15 mins a night sure but not a starter there
I don't think he would start at PF, and I don't think they would fight over minutes. There are enough minutes to go around to give Ariza 30 minutes at SG/SF, Harden 35+ minutes at SG and Parsons 35+ minutes at SF/PF.

ThuglifeJ
07-12-2014, 07:43 PM
It would be hilarious if we signed Marion.

You guys are such tools. When mavs would say anything of this sort after you guys lost Bosh, you guys flipped out and called us all 'gargantuan *******s'

Lol excited for Houston to flop again and see their petty fanbase at work again asking for sympathy

ThuglifeJ
07-12-2014, 07:46 PM
This would be awesome if we matched Parsons imo.

WE need talent. It's not like we aren't going to be above cap anyway.

Bring back parsons and then it enables us to keep these guys from Dallas.

HEck. Bring over Marion too and then :moon: Cuban.

Omg you guys are such jerks :( :( wed NEVER hurt your feelings if you lost out on a desired free agent :(


God, such hypocrites.

Have a nice first round exit again guys.

mightybosstone
07-12-2014, 07:46 PM
Lol?? This is y we all gunned you guys when you failed on Bosh yet you cried about.. Dallas was more of a contender last playoffs than Houston. Now Houston is a contender because ARIZA.


you guys are effin ridiculous

The Rockets were a superior basketball team last season. Dallas matched up well and played San Antonio better than anyone did in the postseason. That doesn't make them better contenders than Houston. Both teams were still ultimately eliminated and the Rockets still have far more talent on the roster.

It's not "effin ridiculous" in the slightest. And anyone with a little common sense could see that.

rockets-fan
07-12-2014, 07:46 PM
You guys are such tools. When mavs would say anything of this sort after you guys lost Bosh, you guys flipped out and called us all 'gargantuan *******s'

Lol excited for Houston to flop again and see their petty fanbase at work again asking for sympathy

Not nice :(

mightybosstone
07-12-2014, 07:47 PM
Omg you guys are such jerks :( :( wed NEVER hurt your feelings if you lost out on a desired free agent :(


God, such hypocrites.

Have a nice first round exit again guys.

In his defense, Cuban did go out of his way to try to **** the Rockets. And he's talked trash about Houston and Morey in the past, so there's a precedent there for why we don't like the guy.

Htownballa1622
07-12-2014, 07:49 PM
In his defense, Cuban did go out of his way to try to **** the Rockets. And he's talked trash about Houston and Morey in the past, so there's a precedent there for why we don't like the guy.

This.

I wouldn't expect HIM to understand.

Just enjoy your grizz now ThuglifeJ.

ThuglifeJ
07-12-2014, 07:51 PM
Omg you guys are such jerks :( :( wed NEVER hurt your feelings if you lost out on a desired free agent :(


God, such hypocrites.

Have a nice first round exit again guys.

In his defense, Cuban did go out of his way to try to **** the Rockets. And he's talked trash about Houston and Morey in the past, so there's a precedent there for why we don't like the guy.

In Cubans defense morey did offer Dirk max contract and call him after getting Dwight. There's a reason he wouldn't like the guy.

Offering Parsons an OFFER sheet is entirely up to PARSONS to sign. So he wanted the payraise what Cuban did was entirely okay, he wanted parsons, you guys are being entitled again. Dirk and mavs are completely different that's a career long player.

Jenceman
07-12-2014, 07:55 PM
I freaking love this signing for Houston. Not only did Houston add the perimeter defense they desperately needed, but they got one of the 2-3 best player left in free agency at far less than the market would dictate. I'm not sure how this will impact the Parsons offer sheet. On one hand, McHale loves his small ball lineup, and I could see the Rockets going with a Beverley/Harden/Ariza/Parsons/Dwight lineup for 15-20 minutes a night. Plus, Ariza could get plenty of minutes behind Parsons and Harden. On the other hand, Ariza can provide slighlty less point production as Parsons with better 3-point shooting and far better defense at half the cost.

I see the pros and cons to matching Parsons, but one thing is for sure. This was a great deal for Morey and the Rockets, who really needed a win after losing out on Bosh. I'm feeling a hell of a lot better about this offseason already.

But if you gain Ariza and lose Parsons then it's a net loss. The biggest improvement the Rockets could make is dump that fool of a coach.

ThuglifeJ
07-12-2014, 07:56 PM
And I have nothing wrong with morey and cuban being enemies they established that a while ago and both have taken shots at each other

More so you rockets fans being insanely fat hypocrites here to a hilarious extent


1 day ago you guys are literally pleading, mostly mbt , for posters to be nicer and more sensitive to you losing a free agent of your desire..now you're saying 'lllol sign Marion and moon cuban on the way out'.
Personally I find the GM battle entertaining its you hypocrites pissing me off


Oh and I'll dig up your posts to prove my point

Aust
07-12-2014, 07:57 PM
I've always been a fan of Ariza. Good player.

rockets-fan
07-12-2014, 07:59 PM
But if you gain Ariza and lose Parsons then it's a net loss. The biggest improvement the Rockets could make is dump that fool of a coach.

Talent wise yes, net loss. But arias defense is much needed in Houston, we have a lot of scoring to being with. Now was he my first choice? Not at all, but he does for well in houston

Cracka2HI!
07-12-2014, 08:09 PM
I don't think Houston will match for Parsons now. I see them going after Boozer once he is amnestied.

IversonIsKrazy
07-12-2014, 08:14 PM
I'm just confused as to why they would match Parson's max and play him out of position at the 4 spot. I mean obviously in the playoffs u cant have Parsons guarding a 4 (Duncan, Ibaka, Griffin, Aldridge, etc) lol. Ariza will prlly start b/c of his defense, so essentially, u will be matching a MAX offer sheet for Parsons who will be your 6th man come playoff time. Interesting.

If they DONT match Parson, great deal. Half the price, not as good offensively but makes up for it by being a much better defender.

NBA_Starter
07-12-2014, 09:08 PM
Are they just going to let Parsons go?

Saddletramp
07-12-2014, 09:18 PM
and i have nothing wrong with morey and cuban being enemies they established that a while ago and both have taken shots at each other

more so you rockets fans being insanely fat hypocrites here to a hilarious extent


1 day ago you guys are literally pleading, mostly mbt , for posters to be nicer and more sensitive to you losing a free agent of your desire..now you're saying 'lllol sign marion and moon cuban on the way out'.
Personally i find the gm battle entertaining its you hypocrites pissing me off


oh and i'll dig up your posts to prove my point


quit acting like a little girl

Mr.B
07-12-2014, 09:42 PM
According to Donnie Nelson the Mavs fully expect Houston to match the deal for Parsons.

ThuglifeJ
07-12-2014, 09:44 PM
and i have nothing wrong with morey and cuban being enemies they established that a while ago and both have taken shots at each other

more so you rockets fans being insanely fat hypocrites here to a hilarious extent


1 day ago you guys are literally pleading, mostly mbt , for posters to be nicer and more sensitive to you losing a free agent of your desire..now you're saying 'lllol sign marion and moon cuban on the way out'.
Personally i find the gm battle entertaining its you hypocrites pissing me off


oh and i'll dig up your posts to prove my point


quit acting like a little girl

Lollll this is how you guys were all acting when Bosh ditched

Hahahah

NBA_Starter
07-12-2014, 09:52 PM
I'd rather have Parsons.

eternal slumber
07-12-2014, 10:00 PM
excellent signing for Houston. one of the biggest problem Houston had was perimeter defense and Ariza address that needs big time plus he's an excellent spot up 3 point shooter which will space the floor.

NBA_Starter
07-12-2014, 10:13 PM
What about Parsons?

eternal slumber
07-12-2014, 10:18 PM
What about Parsons?

they'll keep him IMO.

if you take a look at the Rockets roster, they really don't have a wing player off their bench.

NBA_Starter
07-12-2014, 10:23 PM
Ariza will come off of the bench?

Saddletramp
07-12-2014, 10:49 PM
Lollll this is how you guys were all acting when Bosh ditched

Hahahah

No, it wasn't, you silly choad. MBT wears his heart on his sleeve and gets a little emotional about this kind of stuff, especially when piece of **** trolls like you instigate and egg him on. Other than that? Mostly the "man that sucks" and "Morey swung for the fences and it looks like he missed".

NBA_Starter
07-12-2014, 10:52 PM
I find it hard to believe they keep both.

eternal slumber
07-12-2014, 11:20 PM
Ariza will come off of the bench?

if Rockets do keep them both, i would like them to start Ariza and have Parsons come off the bench to provide instant offense, fluidity and play making which Houston doesn't have now on their bench

mightybosstone
07-12-2014, 11:33 PM
And I have nothing wrong with morey and cuban being enemies they established that a while ago and both have taken shots at each other

More so you rockets fans being insanely fat hypocrites here to a hilarious extent

1 day ago you guys are literally pleading, mostly mbt , for posters to be nicer and more sensitive to you losing a free agent of your desire..now you're saying 'lllol sign Marion and moon cuban on the way out'.
Personally I find the GM battle entertaining its you hypocrites pissing me off

Oh and I'll dig up your posts to prove my point

First off, I do not speak for all Rockets fans and all Rockets fans do not speak for me. Do not lump us all together and then call us hypocrites when we respond differently to different situations. If you took any large group of people and took one person's opinion on a subject, you would inevitably get the opposite opinion from at least one other member of that group. That does not make anyone or everyone in that group a hypocrite. It makes you a ****ing idiot for calling them hypocrites, because you clearly have no clue what the world means.

Sadds The Gr8
07-12-2014, 11:35 PM
Fair price but I dont get it if they match Parsons

rockets-fan
07-12-2014, 11:37 PM
First off, I do not speak for all Rockets fans and all Rockets fans do not speak for me. Do not lump us all together and then call us hypocrites when we respond differently to different situations. If you took any large group of people and took one person's opinion on a subject, you would inevitably get the opposite opinion from at least one other member of that group. That does not make anyone or everyone in that group a hypocrite. It makes you a ****ing idiot for calling them hypocrites, because you clearly have no clue what the world means.


Ima go ahead and agree with MBT, all us rockets fans have reacted different to these situations. I got one want the Rockets to let Parsons go, others disagree.

I'm not mad at the Mavs at all. They offered parsons what they wanted to and had a right to, if the Rockets match cool, we have a ton of talent, if they don't, congrats Mavs, they got an amazing player

hugepatsfan
07-13-2014, 01:14 AM
If the Rockets are willing to go in I say go get Lance Stephenson and then match on Parsons. This is their last shot at cap room. They have about $10 million left to use before they make the call on Parsons if I'm not mistaken.

Stephenson/Beverly
Harder
Parsons/Ariza
Jones
Howard

Use the cap space exemption of $2.7 mil on Birdman.

Stephenson isn't a conventional PG but he's not a bad passer. Harden is a plus playmaker at SG and Parsons is a plus playmaker at SF. So I think HOU can get by with him there. It's not like they rely on any sort of great offensive player there last year.

This would be their rotation if I was coach…

PG: Stephenson (20 minutes), Beverly (28 minutes)
SG: Harden (36 minutes), Stephenson (12 minutes)
SF: Parsons (20 minutes), Ariza (28 minutes)
PF: Jones (30 minutes) Parsons (15 minutes), Birdman (3 minutes)
C: Howard (34 minutes), Birdman (14 minutes)

Thumper 88
07-13-2014, 01:53 AM
if Rockets do keep them both, i would like them to start Ariza and have Parsons come off the bench to provide instant offense, fluidity and play making which Houston doesn't have now on their bench

You would pay someone to come off the bench for 15m a year?

soundjunkies2
07-13-2014, 01:57 AM
He only shows up for contract years. We'll see if that has changed at all.

eternal slumber
07-13-2014, 02:19 AM
You would pay someone to come off the bench for 15m a year?

he'll be better coming of the bench compared to Ariza IMO. it's more of a fit though, just my opinion. you definitely can't start them both but you can play small ball in crunch time.

Mr.B
07-13-2014, 02:24 AM
Parsons is definitely not going to be happy if he has to come off the bench.

eternal slumber
07-13-2014, 02:34 AM
Parsons is definitely not going to be happy if he has to come off the bench.

he'll start i think but for me coming off the bench makes more sense. Rox lost Lin and we don't have any play maker coming off our bench.

Mr.B
07-13-2014, 02:41 AM
he'll start i think but for me coming off the bench makes more sense. Rox lost Lin and we don't have any play maker coming off our bench.
No I agree that it makes sense to have a scorer like that coming off the bench I'm just saying g that he's not going to be happy if he has too. He worked extremely hard to earn that starting job.

mightybosstone
07-13-2014, 10:08 AM
The more I think about Morey and the Parsons situation, the more convinced I am that Morey will match the offer sheet by Dallas. Forget all the positional concerns and the feud between Morey and Cuban for a minute. What's the one thing Morey has valued above all else since he's been with the Rockets? Assets. The man has made a living acquiring, finding and dealing assets. And if he has a guarantee to lock down young, talented player like Parsons for three years, he's going to do it just to have the talent on the roster and an available asset to deal down the road. And it's not like Parsons is untradeable. He can be dealt as of Dec. 1, way before the trade deadline.

Imagine this scenario.... Kevin Love doesn't get dealt in the offseason. Instead, Minnesota plays out the season with the hope to get something better for him at the trade deadline. The trade deadline comes around and Cleveland is still unwilling to deal Wiggins and the Warriors are unwilling to deal Thompson. I think a combination of Parsons and New Orleans' first rounder next season is a damn good haul for Love at that point. Houston gets its true stretch 4 of the future, and all because they didn't let Parsons go when everyone said they should.

I wasn't as confident as I was when Parsons initially signed the offer sheet, but I'd still be willing to bet that Parsons will remain a Rocket this evening.

Thumper 88
07-13-2014, 11:16 AM
The more I think about Morey and the Parsons situation, the more convinced I am that Morey will match the offer sheet by Dallas. Forget all the positional concerns and the feud between Morey and Cuban for a minute. What's the one thing Morey has valued above all else since he's been with the Rockets? Assets. The man has made a living acquiring, finding and dealing assets. And if he has a guarantee to lock down young, talented player like Parsons for three years, he's going to do it just to have the talent on the roster and an available asset to deal down the road. And it's not like Parsons is untradeable. He can be dealt as of Dec. 1, way before the trade deadline.

Imagine this scenario.... Kevin Love doesn't get dealt in the offseason. Instead, Minnesota plays out the season with the hope to get something better for him at the trade deadline. The trade deadline comes around and Cleveland is still unwilling to deal Wiggins and the Warriors are unwilling to deal Thompson. I think a combination of Parsons and New Orleans' first rounder next season is a damn good haul for Love at that point. Houston gets its true stretch 4 of the future, and all because they didn't let Parsons go when everyone said they should.

I wasn't as confident as I was when Parsons initially signed the offer sheet, but I'd still be willing to bet that Parsons will remain a Rocket this evening.

It's going to be extremely hard to trade Parsons especially with that enormous trade kicker.. That's why Cuban threw that in there

Saddletramp
07-13-2014, 11:50 AM
It's going to be extremely hard to trade Parsons especially with that enormous trade kicker.. That's why Cuban threw that in there

That's what people said about Lin's and Asik's third year.

Quinnsanity
07-13-2014, 12:38 PM
The more I think about Morey and the Parsons situation, the more convinced I am that Morey will match the offer sheet by Dallas. Forget all the positional concerns and the feud between Morey and Cuban for a minute. What's the one thing Morey has valued above all else since he's been with the Rockets? Assets. The man has made a living acquiring, finding and dealing assets. And if he has a guarantee to lock down young, talented player like Parsons for three years, he's going to do it just to have the talent on the roster and an available asset to deal down the road. And it's not like Parsons is untradeable. He can be dealt as of Dec. 1, way before the trade deadline.

Imagine this scenario.... Kevin Love doesn't get dealt in the offseason. Instead, Minnesota plays out the season with the hope to get something better for him at the trade deadline. The trade deadline comes around and Cleveland is still unwilling to deal Wiggins and the Warriors are unwilling to deal Thompson. I think a combination of Parsons and New Orleans' first rounder next season is a damn good haul for Love at that point. Houston gets its true stretch 4 of the future, and all because they didn't let Parsons go when everyone said they should.

I wasn't as confident as I was when Parsons initially signed the offer sheet, but I'd still be willing to bet that Parsons will remain a Rocket this evening.

This. This 1000 times. This is exactly what's going to happen. If Minnesota really wants to pay Klay Thompson the max then surely they'd be willing to do it for Chandler Parsons. Throw in the New Orleans pick and perhaps Beverley and I think they have a deal. I don't know if it happens, but Morey has this exact line of thought. Hell, if it doesn't work out he could pretty easily go to Atlanta and say "you need a small forward, we need a power forward, let's swap Parsons for Millsap." He'd never surrender an asset like Parsons for nothing.

kobe4thewinbang
07-13-2014, 12:48 PM
Who's going to be the ball handler for Houston now that Lin is gone? Is it going to be Beverley? Or Harden?

Thumper 88
07-13-2014, 12:48 PM
Why the fk would Minni want an extremely over paid Parsons for only 2-3 years..?

Mr.B
07-13-2014, 12:54 PM
The more I think about Morey and the Parsons situation, the more convinced I am that Morey will match the offer sheet by Dallas. Forget all the positional concerns and the feud between Morey and Cuban for a minute. What's the one thing Morey has valued above all else since he's been with the Rockets? Assets. The man has made a living acquiring, finding and dealing assets. And if he has a guarantee to lock down young, talented player like Parsons for three years, he's going to do it just to have the talent on the roster and an available asset to deal down the road. And it's not like Parsons is untradeable. He can be dealt as of Dec. 1, way before the trade deadline.

Imagine this scenario.... Kevin Love doesn't get dealt in the offseason. Instead, Minnesota plays out the season with the hope to get something better for him at the trade deadline. The trade deadline comes around and Cleveland is still unwilling to deal Wiggins and the Warriors are unwilling to deal Thompson. I think a combination of Parsons and New Orleans' first rounder next season is a damn good haul for Love at that point. Houston gets its true stretch 4 of the future, and all because they didn't let Parsons go when everyone said they should.

I wasn't as confident as I was when Parsons initially signed the offer sheet, but I'd still be willing to bet that Parsons will remain a Rocket this evening.
The way Parsons contract is structured he can't be traded in the 1st year of the deal. It had nothing to do with finances its written into the contract that he can't be traded. There is also a trade kicker in the second year if the deal that makes it extremely difficult to trade him in the second year. If/when the Rockets match they are stuck with Parsons.

And for what its worth Cuban and Donnie Nelson are pretty good themselves at acquiring assets and making trades to squire talent. They won a title doing that.

Vinylman
07-13-2014, 01:01 PM
This. This 1000 times. This is exactly what's going to happen. If Minnesota really wants to pay Klay Thompson the max then surely they'd be willing to do it for Chandler Parsons. Throw in the New Orleans pick and perhaps Beverley and I think they have a deal. I don't know if it happens, but Morey has this exact line of thought. Hell, if it doesn't work out he could pretty easily go to Atlanta and say "you need a small forward, we need a power forward, let's swap Parsons for Millsap." He'd never surrender an asset like Parsons for nothing.

from a value standpoint i wouldn't disagree ... the only problem is that Parsons will only be on a 2 year deal after next year which means he will just be a rental to Minny who won't control him. Klay would be under team control for a LONG time...

I still think houston matches though

Mr.B
07-13-2014, 01:02 PM
Again, no trade clause in the 1st year of Parsons deal.

Thumper 88
07-13-2014, 01:11 PM
I don't think they understand that lol

mightybosstone
07-13-2014, 01:24 PM
Who's going to be the ball handler for Houston now that Lin is gone? Is it going to be Beverley? Or Harden?

Lin was never the primary ball handler for Houston. Harden was and still will be. Although Beverley can occasionally run the offense in a pinch and Parsons can handle the ball if he's re-signed.

mightybosstone
07-13-2014, 01:26 PM
Why the fk would Minni want an extremely over paid Parsons for only 2-3 years..?
That's kind of a ridiculous question, don't you think? Why would Houston or Dallas want an extremely overpaid Parsons for only 2-3 years? Because he's talented and there are only so many players in the league that young and that talented. And if you're Minnesota, you need to get SOME kind of package in return for Love, who is certainly going to leave after next season regardless. Parsons is a hell of a lot better a catch than most of the packages teams will offer.

rockets-fan
07-13-2014, 01:28 PM
I don't think they understand that lol

I get it, that's why I don't want morey to match.

IMO Parsons can totally be worth his contract, his ceiling is that high and he already is a top SF in the league at 25. He's going to flourish in Dallas in ways he couldn't in houston.

$15 mil is too much for him front the rockets standpoint.

mightybosstone
07-13-2014, 01:30 PM
The way Parsons contract is structured he can't be traded in the 1st year of the deal. It had nothing to do with finances its written into the contract that he can't be traded. There is also a trade kicker in the second year if the deal that makes it extremely difficult to trade him in the second year. If/when the Rockets match they are stuck with Parsons.
Parsons can be dealt starting on Dec. 15, so that's not entirely true. Jonathan Feigen stated as much on Twitter, and I know I've seen other sources tweet that as well over the lest three days. If Houston wants to deal Parsons, they can deal parsons. The only caveat is that he has to agree to the trade. So if he doesn't want to play for Minnesota, he can reject the trade. But I'm guessing that Parsons may not be happy with Houston matching the offer and could want out by the trade deadline, so a deal to any team might be better than being disgruntled in Houston.


And for what its worth Cuban and Donnie Nelson are pretty good themselves at acquiring assets and making trades to squire talent. They won a title doing that.
Then you should know already that Morey isn't likely to just let Parsons walk. Think about it. He let Parsons go to RFA. He knew the market and he knew someone was likely to overpay for him. Why would he do that if he was that concerned about matching any offer sheet? He could have just accepted the last $900k option on Parsons and waited until next year if he was that worried about keeping him.

Morey is no fool. Chandler Parsons will be a Rocket in 9 and a half hours.

mightybosstone
07-13-2014, 01:36 PM
Again, no trade clause in the 1st year of Parsons deal.
I keep seeing people post this, but just to reiterate, Houston can deal Parsons as soon as Dec. 15. Here are a few sources proving my point...

http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2014/07/report-mavericks-agree-on-45-million-offer-sheet-with-chandler-parsons/#24793101=0
http://www.mavsoutsider.com/2014/07/09/mavs-extend-offer-to-chandler-parsons/

Notice that both sources mention Parsons can be dealt as of Dec. 15 as long as he agrees to the trade and the trade isn't to the Mavericks. There is a maximum 15 percent trade kicker, but I wouldn't be shocked if Morey found a way to deal him regardless. Maybe Les Alexander could throw in cash to make up for the kicker.

Htownballa1622
07-13-2014, 01:37 PM
Btw, I read something about January 15th being the day we could trade parsons if needed. He would have to agree to it though.

Something about byc status.

Mr.B
07-13-2014, 01:38 PM
Parsons can be dealt starting on Dec. 15, so that's not entirely true. Jonathan Feigen stated as much on Twitter, and I know I've seen other sources tweet that as well over the lest three days. If Houston wants to deal Parsons, they can deal parsons. The only caveat is that he has to agree to the trade. So if he doesn't want to play for Minnesota, he can reject the trade. But I'm guessing that Parsons may not be happy with Houston matching the offer and could want out by the trade deadline, so a deal to any team might be better than being disgruntled in Houston.


Then you should know already that Morey isn't likely to just let Parsons walk. Think about it. He let Parsons go to RFA. He knew the market and he knew someone was likely to overpay for him. Why would he do that if he was that concerned about matching any offer sheet? He could have just accepted the last $900k option on Parsons and waited until next year if he was that worried about keeping him.

Morey is no fool. Chandler Parsons will be a Rocket in 9 and a half hours.

Exactly what I said, he has a no trade clause. He can nix any trade in the first year. Why the heck would he want to go to Minny and play on a lottery team instead of playing for a contender? And if he's going to be mad at the Rockets for matching the deal why would he help them get Love? If Minny was going to trade Love to Houston that deal likely be for Harden not Parsons. Plus he's easier for Houston the trade.

Also I fully expect Houston the match the deal. That's why Dallas has been talking to Stephenson.

Vinylman
07-13-2014, 01:40 PM
I keep seeing people post this, but just to reiterate, Houston can deal Parsons as soon as Dec. 15. Here are a few sources proving my point...

http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2014/07/report-mavericks-agree-on-45-million-offer-sheet-with-chandler-parsons/#24793101=0
http://www.mavsoutsider.com/2014/07/09/mavs-extend-offer-to-chandler-parsons/

Notice that both sources mention Parsons can be dealt as of Dec. 15 as long as he agrees to the trade and the trade isn't to the Mavericks. There is a maximum 15 percent trade kicker, but I wouldn't be shocked if Morey found a way to deal him regardless. Maybe Les Alexander could throw in cash to make up for the kicker.

why are you posting this? This is not news ... everyone with a 3rd grade CBA education knows that a player can waive a NTC... the question is will he

you act like you are posting some revelation...

face it morey screwed up and if he matches you have limited flexibility going forward

Quinnsanity
07-13-2014, 01:44 PM
why are you posting this? This is not news ... everyone with a 3rd grade CBA education knows that a player can waive a NTC... the question is will he

you act like you are posting some revelation...

face it morey screwed up and if he matches you have limited flexibility going forward

No, he doesn't have a no trade clause. Let's set the record straight on this: an NBA player can only have a no trade clause if they fit the following conditions:

- At least four consecutive years of service with the team he is signing the contract with.

- At least eight total years of NBA service.

I'm not 100% clear on the rules of restricted free agency, but I know he doesn't have an actual no trade clause.

Quinnsanity
07-13-2014, 01:46 PM
And, to crap on my own point, here's Marc Stein:

"League rules state that any player who signs an offer sheet with a new team in restricted free agency and then sees that offer sheet matched by the incumbent team can’t be traded without his consent for one full year after the offer sheet was matched.

This season, mind you, it's a rule that applies to an exclusive club of one: Jeff Teague, who remained a Hawk when Atlanta matched Milwaukee's four-year, $32 million offer sheet in July."

mightybosstone
07-13-2014, 01:47 PM
Exactly what I said, he has a no trade clause. He can nix any trade in the first year. Why the heck would he want to go to Minny and play on a lottery team instead of playing for a contender? And if he's going to be mad at the Rockets for matching the deal why would he help them get Love? If Minny was going to trade Love to Houston that deal likely be for Harden not Parsons. Plus he's easier for Houston the trade.
lol... Houston is not trading Harden for Love when Love has less than one year left on his contract. That's completely insane, and you should know better.

As for why Parsons would want to go to Minnesota, I don't know. But we have no idea how Houston matching the offer sheet will impact him. Will he be a starter next season or a bench player behind Ariza? Will he embrace the new rotation or be pissed at having fewer minutes? Will he hate Morey for matching the contract or continue to embrace Houston and his teammates? We don't know, and that's the point. By the end of the year, he may be so pissed that he can't wait to get out. Plus, if he gets dealt to Minnesota, that would give him a year and a half to show what he can do as the No. 1 or No. 2 guy before his bailing on his player option and getting his next contract.


Also I fully expect Houston the match the deal. That's why Dallas has been talking to Stephenson.
Hmm.... So that's confusing. Why argue against it if you feel like Houston is likely to match it?

Vinylman
07-13-2014, 01:52 PM
No, he doesn't have a no trade clause. Let's set the record straight on this: an NBA player can only have a no trade clause if they fit the following conditions:

- At least four consecutive years of service with the team he is signing the contract with.

- At least eight total years of NBA service.

I'm not 100% clear on the rules of restricted free agency, but I know he doesn't have an actual no trade clause.

OMFG... yes he does

For one year after exercising the right of first refusal to keep a restricted free agent. The player must consent to a trade to any team, although he cannot be traded to the team that signed him to the offer sheet.

learn the CBA before you look foolish

Mr.B
07-13-2014, 01:54 PM
lol... Houston is not trading Harden for Love when Love has less than one year left on his contract. That's completely insane, and you should know better.

As for why Parsons would want to go to Minnesota, I don't know. But we have no idea how Houston matching the offer sheet will impact him. Will he be a starter next season or a bench player behind Ariza? Will he embrace the new rotation or be pissed at having fewer minutes? Will he hate Morey for matching the contract or continue to embrace Houston and his teammates? We don't know, and that's the point. By the end of the year, he may be so pissed that he can't wait to get out. Plus, if he gets dealt to Minnesota, that would give him a year and a half to show what he can do as the No. 1 or No. 2 guy before his bailing on his player option and getting his next contract.


Hmm.... So that's confusing. Why argue against it if you feel like Houston is likely to match it?

I'm not saying that Houston would want to deal Harden because we all know they wouldn't. I'm saying the Minnesota would want a younger player that has more skill than Parsons. The Rockets can't just send whoever they want to The Wolves. They have to want the player.

I'm not arguing against Houston matching the Parsons deal. It makes perfect sense why they would match, regardless of how Parsons would feel (or not feel) about having to go back to Houston. It would make them an extremely deep team. I'm just saying that trading Parsons for Love in the first year is a pipe dream.

Quinnsanity
07-13-2014, 01:56 PM
OMFG... yes he does

For one year after exercising the right of first refusal to keep a restricted free agent. The player must consent to a trade to any team, although he cannot be traded to the team that signed him to the offer sheet.

learn the CBA before you look foolish

I pointed that out in my next post, but it's not a no-trade clause. It's different, as a no-trade clause grants veto rights throughout the life of the contract whereas the restricted rule only grants it for a year. Semantics I suppose, but still. It's not technically a no trade clause.

Thumper 88
07-13-2014, 01:56 PM
So Minni is in rebuild mode and you think they'll take on Parsons and his contact ok..

mightybosstone
07-13-2014, 01:56 PM
why are you posting this? This is not news ... everyone with a 3rd grade CBA education knows that a player can waive a NTC... the question is will he

you act like you are posting some revelation...

face it morey screwed up and if he matches you have limited flexibility going forward

Because everyone is acting as if a Parsons trade is impossible, which is simply not the case. Parsons just has to agree to it, and if he's unhappy with his role in Houston, he would probably be willing to go anywhere else where he'd get more playing time.

Also, I don't buy that "Morey screwed up" one bit. And I would love for you to explain to me how Morey matching Parsons' deal gives us limited flexibility moving forward.

Here's the point that people aren't getting. If Houston doesn't match Parsons, they'll have maybe $10 million in cap space after Lin and Asik's contracts come off the books and Ariza's deal becomes official. That's enough to maybe add some veterans and some other pieces, but not nearly enough to add another marquee guy next offseason. And even if they tried to keep the rest of the roster super cheap with low risk veteran signings, Houston's got maybe $6-7 million in cap room left to start the season. With the increases in salaries next offseason, that cap room will be non-existent. Not enough to sign a marquee free agent. Not enough to do anything.

OR Houston can match Parsons offer and go over the salary cap. That allows them the opportunity to use the MLE and they'd still have the ability to sign players to the veteran minimum. Sure, Houston couldn't add any star players, but they can't add any star players this offseason or next offseason regardless if they match Parsons or not. But in this scenario, not only can they use the MLE, but they have a very attractive asset in Parsons that they can deal by December. Sure, the trade kicker and NTC make it a little more challenging, but it's an asset nontheless and one they wouldn't have if they let him walk. Plus, he's easily the third best player on the team and a much better player than anybody Houston could acquire in free agency.

To me, it's an easy call. The "flexibility" you speak of is essentially non-existent either way. But at least with Parsons on the roster, the Rockets are a better basketball team and he provides a pretty sexy asset, albeit one that won't be super easy to move.

Vinylman
07-13-2014, 02:00 PM
I pointed that out in my next post, but it's not a no-trade clause. It's different, as a no-trade clause grants veto rights throughout the life of the contract whereas the restricted rule only grants it for a year. Semantics I suppose, but still. It's not technically a no trade clause.

you edited your original post and that was not what you said...

no worries dude... like i said in my original post... everyone with a third grade education of the CBA knew he would have a 1 year NTC... no one ever talked about a NTC for the entire contract...

how you want to characterize the clause is irrelevant

Quinnsanity
07-13-2014, 02:00 PM
Also worth noting: though Parsons might have veto rights, Ariza does not. How do we know Ariza isn't the eventual trade chip? It obviously wouldn't be for Kevin Love, but what about Paul Millsap? We know they were interested in Josh Smith last year, so maybe him. Bottom line is that we know there's a market for Trevor Ariza and he decidedly doesn't have veto rights, they could very easily deal him after December 15th instead of Parsons.

mightybosstone
07-13-2014, 02:01 PM
I'm not arguing against Houston matching the Parsons deal. It makes perfect sense why they would match, regardless of how Parsons would feel (or not feel) about having to go back to Houston. It would make them an extremely deep team. I'm just saying that trading Parsons for Love in the first year is a pipe dream.
It's a pipe dream, sure. But that was just a single example. I'm not so naive that I think Morey is specifically going to match the offer sheet to get Love and that it's a done deal. There are a ton of other players Morey could target. But even Love isn't impossible. If Love really wanted to come to Houston, the Rockets could always pull off a sign and trade after next season when the NTC expires. Not likely, but not impossible. And again, that's just one example of one player.

Vinylman
07-13-2014, 02:12 PM
Because everyone is acting as if a Parsons trade is impossible, which is simply not the case. Parsons just has to agree to it, and if he's unhappy with his role in Houston, he would probably be willing to go anywhere else where he'd get more playing time.

Also, I don't buy that "Morey screwed up" one bit. And I would love for you to explain to me how Morey matching Parsons' deal gives us limited flexibility moving forward.

Here's the point that people aren't getting. If Houston doesn't match Parsons, they'll have maybe $10 million in cap space after Lin and Asik's contracts come off the books and Ariza's deal becomes official. That's enough to maybe add some veterans and some other pieces, but not nearly enough to add another marquee guy next offseason. And even if they tried to keep the rest of the roster super cheap with low risk veteran signings, Houston's got maybe $6-7 million in cap room left to start the season. With the increases in salaries next offseason, that cap room will be non-existent. Not enough to sign a marquee free agent. Not enough to do anything.

OR Houston can match Parsons offer and go over the salary cap. That allows them the opportunity to use the MLE and they'd still have the ability to sign players to the veteran minimum. Sure, Houston couldn't add any star players, but they can't add any star players this offseason or next offseason regardless if they match Parsons or not. But in this scenario, not only can they use the MLE, but they have a very attractive asset in Parsons that they can deal by December. Sure, the trade kicker and NTC make it a little more challenging, but it's an asset nontheless and one they wouldn't have if they let him walk. Plus, he's easily the third best player on the team and a much better player than anybody Houston could acquire in free agency.

To me, it's an easy call. The "flexibility" you speak of is essentially non-existent either way. But at least with Parsons on the roster, the Rockets are a better basketball team and he provides a pretty sexy asset, albeit one that won't be super easy to move.

I think you missed my point which i stated earlier in the thread...

1. I don't know if Parsons will agree to a trade or not.... nor do you... what i do know is that you won't get any value for him by shipping him to a **** team if the reports are right that he has an opt out after two years... which **** team is gonna want him for a potential 1 year rental?

2. I would also match Parsons just from a continuity standpoint so we don't disagree on that

3. He did screw up because he miscalculated on hitting the big FA... the only reason to put parsons out early was because he believed he could hit on a PF... now i am not saying he is a bad GM because he is far from it. But he did overplay his hand and ended up with pretty much as sub optimal of an offseason as he could. Your flexibility is diminished for next offseason because Parsons is extremely hard to trade and you won't have much cap... You will have the MLE but that doesn't get you what it use to. Have you seen the guys getting MLE type money this year? It won't be any different next year...

Anyway, i still think you guys have an extremely bright future but i don't think the roster build going forward is gonna be as easy as it could have been

Mr.B
07-13-2014, 02:17 PM
Also worth noting: though Parsons might have veto rights, Ariza does not. How do we know Ariza isn't the eventual trade chip? It obviously wouldn't be for Kevin Love, but what about Paul Millsap? We know they were interested in Josh Smith last year, so maybe him. Bottom line is that we know there's a market for Trevor Ariza and he decidedly doesn't have veto rights, they could very easily deal him after December 15th instead of Parsons.

That makes more sense.

Also I said this in a previous post but I think Miami's big 3 has completely messed up the way NBA fans and apparently some owners/gm's think about how to go about winning a title. I honestly don't think Houston needs Kevin Love or any other super star caliber player to win a title. Now I do think they need a stretch 4 but I think they would have been better off going after Spencer Hawes, Ariza, and then matching Parsons instead of trying to get Bosh. I would fear that team more than if they had Bosh and no bench. That's also why I was saying that Bosh may have saved Morey from himself by agreeing to go back to Miami.

Quinnsanity
07-13-2014, 02:19 PM
That makes more sense.

Also I said this in a previous post but I think Miami's big 3 has completely messed up the way NBA fans and apparently some owners/gm's think about how to go about winning a title. I honestly don't think Houston needs Kevin Love or any other super star caliber player to win a title. Now I do think they need a stretch 4 but I think they would have been better off going after Spencer Hawes, Ariza, and then matching Parsons instead of trying to get Bosh. I would fear that team more than if they had Bosh and no bench. That's also why I was saying that Bosh may have saved Morey from himself by agreeing to go back to Miami.

I agree with the sentiment, but not in this particular situation. A Beverley/Harden/Parsons/Bosh/Dwight starting five with Terrance Jones as the sixth man would have been deadly. I think they would've been the title favorite.

mightybosstone
07-13-2014, 02:27 PM
I think you missed my point which i stated earlier in the thread...

1. I don't know if Parsons will agree to a trade or not.... nor do you... what i do know is that you won't get any value for him by shipping him to a **** team if the reports are right that he has an opt out after two years... which **** team is gonna want him for a potential 1 year rental?
**** teams make **** decisions which is why they're ******. So I could see a lot of teams agreeing to that deal for the right price as long as Parsons is willing to accept the trade. But what if it's not a bad team? What if a pretty good team in need of a SF who has a ton of PFs wants to do a swap? It's still very feasible. Certainly not out of the realm of possibility.


3. He did screw up because he miscalculated on hitting the big FA... the only reason to put parsons out early was because he believed he could hit on a PF... now i am not saying he is a bad GM because he is far from it. But he did overplay his hand and ended up with pretty much as sub optimal of an offseason as he could. Your flexibility is diminished for next offseason because Parsons is extremely hard to trade and you won't have much cap... You will have the MLE but that doesn't get you what it use to. Have you seen the guys getting MLE type money this year? It won't be any different next year...

Anyway, i still think you guys have an extremely bright future but i don't think the roster build going forward is gonna be as easy as it could have been
Here's the problem with your criticism. At no point did you actually consider what happens next offseason if Morey just accepts Parsons last team option this season. You're basing your assumption that doing so would have given them far more flexibility for the next offseason. Have you looked at next year's free agent class? It's pretty underwhelming: Love, Aldridge, Rondo, Parker, Thompson, Manu, Garnett, Millsap and Marc Gasol. Of those guys, the only ones who could really help Houston are Aldridge, Love, Parker and Millsap. Aldridge and Parker are almost locks to re-sign with their current teams. Love is getting a ton of attention in trades right now and Millsap is good, but certainly not waiting an entire season for. So who on this list is worth waiting an entire season for?

Also, you're not considering that Houston will have even less money in cap room next year because of Howard and Harden's contracts, so they won't be able to offer a max to any of the players mentioned. At most they'd have probably $16-17 million left. And then you've got two huge curveballs to deal with: Parsons' RFA and Beverley's UFA. So Morey would have to sign one of those marquee free agents and convince Parsons not to sign with another team (and no offer sheet to match next season to keep him from leaving) AND they'd have to do both while dealing with a possible offer sheet from other teams for Beverley.

So basically you're claiming that Morey's move was a bad one, because he whiffed on some free agents. Except next year's class of free agents is insanely underwhelming and very few of them are feasible options for Houston. PLUS, he'd have no way to prevent Parsons from leaving the Rockets AND he'd have to worry about Beverley. Sorry, but I completely fail to see how your plan is a better one. By letting Parsons go through RFA this season, it allowed Morey to go after some big free agents (one of which he came damn close to getting) AND it allowed him to match any offer on Parsons. It was the right move, and I see no way you can prove otherwise.

Vinylman
07-13-2014, 02:41 PM
**** teams make **** decisions which is why they're ******. So I could see a lot of teams agreeing to that deal for the right price as long as Parsons is willing to accept the trade. But what if it's not a bad team? What if a pretty good team in need of a SF who has a ton of PFs wants to do a swap? It's still very feasible. Certainly not out of the realm of possibility.


Here's the problem with your criticism. At no point did you actually consider what happens next offseason if Morey just accepts Parsons last team option this season. You're basing your assumption that doing so would have given them far more flexibility for the next offseason. Have you looked at next year's free agent class? It's pretty underwhelming: Love, Aldridge, Rondo, Parker, Thompson, Manu, Garnett, Millsap and Marc Gasol. Of those guys, the only ones who could really help Houston are Aldridge, Love, Parker and Millsap. Aldridge and Parker are almost locks to re-sign with their current teams. Love is getting a ton of attention in trades right now and Millsap is good, but certainly not waiting an entire season for. So who on this list is worth waiting an entire season for?

Also, you're not considering that Houston will have even less money in cap room next year because of Howard and Harden's contracts, so they won't be able to offer a max to any of the players mentioned. At most they'd have probably $16-17 million left. And then you've got two huge curveballs to deal with: Parsons' RFA and Beverley's UFA. So Morey would have to sign one of those marquee free agents and convince Parsons not to sign with another team (and no offer sheet to match next season to keep him from leaving) AND they'd have to do both while dealing with a possible offer sheet from other teams for Beverley.

So basically you're claiming that Morey's move was a bad one, because he whiffed on some free agents. Except next year's class of free agents is insanely underwhelming and very few of them are feasible options for Houston. PLUS, he'd have no way to prevent Parsons from leaving the Rockets AND he'd have to worry about Beverley. Sorry, but I completely fail to see how your plan is a better one. By letting Parsons go through RFA this season, it allowed Morey to go after some big free agents (one of which he came damn close to getting) AND it allowed him to match any offer on Parsons. It was the right move, and I see no way you can prove otherwise.

We can agree to disagree but there is a major hole in your logic... if he had not of made Parsons an RFA this summer he would have just extended him before the beginning of the year and at a much lower price ($10-12 million) because he would not have the open market leverage.... In addition, he would not have given him an opt out after 2 years nor had to deal with the NTC...

Where he screwed up was he could have gone after all those FA's and not made Parsons an RFA...

mightybosstone
07-13-2014, 02:50 PM
We can agree to disagree but there is a major hole in your logic... if he had not of made Parsons an RFA this summer he would have just extended him before the beginning of the year and at a much lower price ($10-12 million) because he would not have the open market leverage.... In addition, he would not have given him an opt out after 2 years nor had to deal with the NTC...

Where he screwed up was he could have gone after all those FA's and not made Parsons an RFA...

Okay... I still don't get it. First off, you assume the Rockets can get Parsons to agree to an extension during the season. Except they tried that this offseason and failed, which is why Parsons turned around and signed Dallas' offer sheet. That assumption is a HUGE assumption. Secondly, even if Houston does sign Parsons at a discount during the season, Parsons would eat like 70-80% of the Rockets cap space and they STILL wouldn't have enough for a marquee free agent.

He didn't screw up at all. Your logic is simply not sound. Based on your plan, Morey wouldn't be targeting any free agents because he wouldn't have the cap space to do so in the first place. Your plan is simply to try and get Chandler at the cheapest price regardless of how well the rest of the team improves. That's a bad plan.

Vinylman
07-13-2014, 03:00 PM
Okay... I still don't get it. First off, you assume the Rockets can get Parsons to agree to an extension during the season. Except they tried that this offseason and failed, which is why Parsons turned around and signed Dallas' offer sheet. That assumption is a HUGE assumption. Secondly, even if Houston does sign Parsons at a discount during the season, Parsons would eat like 70-80% of the Rockets cap space and they STILL wouldn't have enough for a marquee free agent.

He didn't screw up at all. Your logic is simply not sound. Based on your plan, Morey wouldn't be targeting any free agents because he wouldn't have the cap space to do so in the first place. Your plan is simply to try and get Chandler at the cheapest price regardless of how well the rest of the team improves. That's a bad plan.

it is ok man... your defense of him is irrational...

if you don't understand the difference of Parsons leverage as a free agent vs a guy playing for 900k in 2014/15 then you are just being disingenuous. In addition, Morey could have gone after the exact same FA's this year if he hadn't of made Parsons an RFA...

Again, no need to give an inch ... your blind faith in everything morey is comical... especially when i personally think he is one of the best GM's around...

good luck next year

mightybosstone
07-13-2014, 03:23 PM
it is ok man... your defense of him is irrational...

if you don't understand the difference of Parsons leverage as a free agent vs a guy playing for 900k in 2014/15 then you are just being disingenuous. In addition, Morey could have gone after the exact same FA's this year if he hadn't of made Parsons an RFA...
:facepalm: Dude... But Houston couldn't have matched Parsons' offer next offseason! How are you not getting this point? That's the whole advantage of RFA in the first place.


Again, no need to give an inch ... your blind faith in everything morey is comical... especially when i personally think he is one of the best GM's around...
Jesus christ... It's not blind faith. When Morey has made bad moves, I've criticized him for it. I hated the first Ariza deal he made. I loathed them drafting Marcus Morris over Kawhi Leonard. I didn't like the Brad Miller signing a few years back. I hated them letting Dragic go in UFA and going after Lin instead. I thought going into last offseason with Francisco Garcia and Omri Casspi in their rotation was a mistake. I don't like Kevin McHale as the head coach. These were all moves I criticized Morey for, and I'm sure there are more I'm just not thinking of.

When the guy makes a mistake, I'm the first person there to suggest it. This isn't one of those times. You can chose to believe me or not believe me, but I give zero ****s either way. What's done is done and it doesn't change the fact that Houston still has one of the most talented teams in the league and Morey has built a pretty fantastic core of players.


good luck next year
You too. But next time don't assume that because someone has a differing opinion of your own that they're being blind homers. Perhaps they honestly believe the things they believe based on facts, evidence and deductive reasoning.

j-bay
07-13-2014, 08:28 PM
Turns out this was 3 team tradeNOP gets: O. Asik, O. Casspi & $1.5M from HOU
HOU gets: T. Ariza, A. Gee & protected 1st-rounder from NOP
WSH gets: M. Ely & $8.5M TPE

j-bay
07-13-2014, 08:40 PM
Someone edit the title this is a sign and trade by Washington giving Ariza to Houston with NO being a 3rd team in the deal getting asik.