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raiderfaninTX
07-11-2014, 02:40 PM
Jump on that band wagon.....

All seriousness anyone else more or less cheer for players and not so much teams?

Kill me but I do this, now with football I will be a raider fan until I die and really don't cheer for anyone else but when It comes to basketball I cheer for the success of specific player.

I cheer for lebron because people want him to fail, I cheered for Duncan because I wanted him to get at least one more, and I will cheer for westbrook because that heart he shows on the floor.

Don't mistake this for a lack of
Knowledge of the game.

Ever since Hakeem retired I stopped sticking with a team and just payed attention to players.

FlashBolt
07-11-2014, 02:43 PM
I feel the same way but whatever. If they think it's the same as being a bandwagon, then so be it. There's nothing wrong with supporting a player. It's not like I'd rather have OKC win one. If not OKC, it's Miami. It would be different if I was hopping into Spurs bandwagon and then Cleveland year after year.

jaayytheillest
07-11-2014, 02:43 PM
Bandwagoning is fine the ones i have a problem with are the fakes who pretend they have been fans before said played joined their team and proceed to talk **** nothing worse then CASUALS talking ****

NYKnickFanatic
07-11-2014, 02:50 PM
Bandwagoning is fine the ones i have a problem with are the fakes who pretend they have been fans before said played joined their team and proceed to talk **** nothing worse then CASUALS talking ****

Justinnnn!!! You're back!

Can't wait to see that Cavs sig!

SanAntonioSpurs23
07-11-2014, 03:33 PM
Serious question. How can I change my name to Cavsfan4lyfe?

lol, please
07-11-2014, 03:44 PM
So, this thread is you publicly stating that you are done being a Lakers fan and are now going to be a "cavs" fan but really you intend to follow Lebron everywhere and thus become a certified Lebronite? Got it. You can leave your self respect over there on the table, and pick up your "shun me" cap over here.

Hawkeye15
07-11-2014, 03:45 PM
I have my team I cheer for no matter what, but I love basketball, and I root for certain players I like, unless its against my team...

benzni
07-11-2014, 03:49 PM
die hard Spurs, Kings, and Seahawks fan since '14

raiderfaninTX
07-11-2014, 04:32 PM
So, this thread is you publicly stating that you are done being a Lakers fan and are now going to be a "cavs" fan but really you intend to follow Lebron everywhere and thus become a certified Lebronite? Got it. You can leave your self respect over there on the table, and pick up your "shun me" cap over here.


What?

FOBolous
07-11-2014, 04:33 PM
yea i don't understand the stigma of being a fan of a player vs a team. who cares?

5ass
07-11-2014, 04:46 PM
So, this thread is you publicly stating that you are done being a Lakers fan and are now going to be a "cavs" fan but really you intend to follow Lebron everywhere and thus become a certified Lebronite? Got it. You can leave your self respect over there on the table, and pick up your "shun me" cap over here.
so its wrong to be a fan of a player? I'm a lebron fan wherever he plays. You're more of a fan of drama than basketball.

Clippersfan86
07-11-2014, 05:01 PM
At the end of the day it's your life and it's just a sport. So this isn't some moral issue or something. I personally don't respect fans of this mold generally though. If you admit you're a general NBA fan I'm okay with that. Just don't say you're a fan of X team and then nut ride a player on another team or another team completely MORE than your own team. Your side piece should never get more attention than your main piece as I said in the other thread.

All fans of sports like other players on other teams, or have second teams they pull for if not their team. That doesn't mean you have to worship the ground they walk on and put that above the team you claim to be a fan of. These aren't mutually exclusive concepts. For example, I'm clearly the "diehard" or "crazed" type fan.. but of course I have other teams I want to succeed. Spurs/Suns last year for example in my case.

Pablonovi
07-11-2014, 06:05 PM
As a counselor, it never ceases to impress me how much how your dad behaved (if you're a guy) or how much how your mom behaved (if you're a girl) DURING YOUR FIRST 5 YEARS OF LIFE, influences, even tends to dominate, the rest of your life.

I was oh so fortunate to have a super-tolerant dad in a super-IN-tolerant age (the 1950s & 1960's). He "raised" me to both love my own team and love any and all great plays and players on other teams. This makes for a much, much, much more enjoyable fan-hood, imo.

So, I grew up loving West-Baylor; but also, almost as much: The Big "O", and Wilt; and I respected Russ mightily for his sheer dignity (and his absolute skill in turning blocked-shots into great passes!). Then I absolutely loved Dr. J. and Rick Barry and the "A-Train" and Moses (along with KAJ); and MJ & Pippen & Bird & Stockton-Malone (along with Magic); and TMac-Vinsanity & ... well, this post isn't going to end this way - not even this paragraph or sentence!

Basically it comes down to this: Either:
1) You love only your: team, town/city, race, religion, state, country (and "hate" everybody else);
or
2) You love your team (if you even have one - no crime, imo, to NOT have a team) AND love some other "guys" too.

For me, it's clear cut:
the first is the road of: Arrogance, hatred and lots of personal unhappiness (usually "your" side doesn't win ALWAYS.

The second is the road of: Humility, love and lots of personal happiness (there's greatness everywhere to enjoy!)

Clippersfan86
07-11-2014, 06:10 PM
As a counselor, it never ceases to impress me how much how your dad behaved (if you're a guy) or how much how your mom behaved (if you're a girl) DURING YOUR FIRST 5 YEARS OF LIFE, influences, even tends to dominate, the rest of your life.

I was oh so fortunate to have a super-tolerant dad in a super-IN-tolerant age (the 1950s & 1960's). He "raised" me to both love my own team and love any and all great plays and players on other teams. This makes for a much, much, much more enjoyable fan-hood, imo.

So, I grew up loving West-Baylor; but also, almost as much: The Big "O", and Wilt; and I respected Russ mightily for his sheer dignity (and his absolute skill in turning blocked-shots into great passes!). Then I absolutely loved Dr. J. and Rick Barry and the "A-Train" and Moses (along with KAJ); and MJ & Pippen & Bird & Stockton-Malone (along with Magic); and TMac-Vinsanity & ... well, this post isn't going to end this way - not even this paragraph or sentence!

Basically it comes down to this: Either:
1) You love only your: team, town/city, race, religion, state, country (and "hate" everybody else);
or
2) You love your team (if you even have one - no crime, imo, to NOT have a team) AND love some other "guys" too.

For me, it's clear cut:
the first is the road of: Arrogance, hatred and lots of personal unhappiness (usually "your" side doesn't win ALWAYS.

The second is the road of: Humility, love and lots of personal happiness (there's greatness everywhere to enjoy!)

I'm kind of mixed. Option two BESIDES whoever the Clippers are playing that day, then it's option one lol.

FYL_McVeezy
07-11-2014, 06:12 PM
I'm sorry I can't respect that. Just my opinion.

I root for my city above all else!

Pablonovi
07-11-2014, 06:30 PM
I'm kind of mixed. Option two BESIDES whoever the Clippers are playing that day, then it's option one lol.

Hey Clippersfan86,
I grew up in New Jersey, not far from NYC; so "naturally" I was a Yankees, etc. fan. But West-Baylor "glorified" me with their biracial harmony and artistry - and NYC's teams have ranked 2nd ever since.

I was anticipating loving these past Finals FOR LeBron just going off. Instead, I absolutely loved them for Spurfection! (Loved LeBron's work; but wow, S.A. was something phenomenal to behold!)

I'm definitely "kind of mixed" too. As long as "my" Lakers are NOT playing - it's "open season": I'll root for anybody who plays great; and any play by anybody if it's great.

Clippersfan86
07-11-2014, 06:34 PM
Hey Clippersfan86,
I grew up in New Jersey, not far from NYC; so "naturally" I was a Yankees, etc. fan. But West-Baylor "glorified" me with their biracial harmony and artistry - and NYC's teams have ranked 2nd ever since.

I was anticipating loving these past Finals FOR LeBron just going off. Instead, I absolutely loved them for Spurfection! (Loved LeBron's work; but wow, S.A. was something phenomenal to behold!)

I'm definitely "kind of mixed" too. As long as "my" Lakers are NOT playing - it's "open season": I'll root for anybody who plays great; and any play by anybody if it's great.

Dang your fandom goes way back. That's awesome that you've gotten to follow so many eras. I'm a baby compared to you in my years as a fan :).

Pablonovi
07-11-2014, 06:41 PM
I'm sorry I can't respect that. Just my opinion.

I root for my city above all else!

Hey FYL-McVeezy,
Perhaps (?) you mean to say, "I'm sorry I can't agree with that." ? In other words, one can certainly disagree (even quite strongly) AND still respect "opposing" or differing viewpoints. No?

Despite not looking at things the way you look at things (it seems like "Tribalism" over "Communalism" - choosing only a section of our species AGAINST choosing ALL of our species); I CAN respect your devotion to your city.

In addition to my dad's wonderful influence on my thinking; I "got" to experience, first-hand, right in front of my eyes, "Tribalism" at its "purest": gang-bang beatings (lots of them!). Having witnessed continual examples of my own "tribe" ("whites") beating the living be-jesus out of the "other guys" (blacks); THAT BURNED all tribalism right out of me! If I had not have been so relatively small and definitely light-weight (and thus virtually useless to anyone in a serious fight/beating); I'd have started joining in those "gang-bangs" on the side of the blacks victims.

Screw "tribalism" !

btw, Have you thought about WHY it is correct to put the city where you were born "above all else!" ?
In other words, it IS an accident where you are born. But somehow (?) that accident "demands" life-long loyalty? And that's a good thing? Other cities aren't almost or as much deserving? Why - is there something inherently wrong/bad with EVERY other city other than the one you just happened to be born in?

I understand that world-wide people are raised to believe and act this way; but I can NOT find a legitimate justification for it. And I can find a lot of serious "down-side" to it: "tribalistic" hatreds galore (and over such petty issues) !

Pablonovi
07-11-2014, 06:52 PM
Dang your fandom goes way back. That's awesome that you've gotten to follow so many eras. I'm a baby compared to you in my years as a fan :).

Hey Clippersfan86,
I'll take that as a compliment! Thanx.

Otoh, one should not forget there are always two (usually 3, actually) sides to every story.

In my case, having so many eras -worth of fandom (and oh how truly awesome that IS!) is accompanied by a bleep-load of years, and wear-and-tear on body and brain! For examples:

1) I was born "half-calculator". For most of my life, I could literally do math in my head faster than most people could WHEN they used calculators. (Super-high IQ, particularly in Math - I always got perfect scores and did the tests in 1/3 the allotted time; and I NEVER had to study anything Math related. btw this is NOT bragging; I did NOT do anything to "deserve" the IQ; so there's NOTHING to brag about.

Now however, I can't beat anybody WITH a calculator (including myself!); and, when I try to do calculations in my head, more often than not; I have to repeat the attempt because I forget something before the end and get lost!) No fun at all!

2) I have MEGA-trained for 36 years, 2.5 - 4 hours of running EVERY day (a few times over 6 hours in one day). I got half-way decent fast (on top of all that stamina). Now, my fastest miles are the opposite of fast! My average training pace used to be 7:30 minutes per mile and I'd race at almost 5:30 minute/miles for the half-marathon (13.11 miles). Now? I ain't saying! Well, ok. I haven't come close to a 7:30 mile, once in ages! (A couple of years ago, as a 62 year old, I ran a 7-hour run thru very high mountains (lowest elevation: 10,000 feet). I completed the run without any problems whatsoever; but I'm sure I averaged 10+ minutes a mile! Yikes I'm so damned slow!

Enjoy that youth (to the max) while you've got it, my friend!

There IS a downside to being the "great-granddad" to your "baby-hood"! hehe

Clippersfan86
07-11-2014, 07:06 PM
Haha. Very interesting story. Sounds like you've lived a good life!

Pablonovi
07-11-2014, 07:30 PM
Haha. Very interesting story. Sounds like you've lived a good life!

Hey Clippersfan86,
I HAVE been incredibly lucky. I KNOW my parents were exceptional - their love lasted 50 years (to the moment of my mom's death) and it was strong! (They had one single fight ever; and that was in their first month; way before any of us kids were born.) The respect between them was semi-unique.

With that kind of parenting and upbringing, you really got to be one royal screw-up not to turn out good!

Then, skipping the rest of the first half of my life, (except to mention that my team was making the Play-Offs almost every single year, and winning the Chip half of them! relatively unimportant in the grand scheme of things, but nice nonetheless) ...

I meet and marry THE dream-girl of all women. Absolutely knock-out gorgeous (I ain't handsome, not ugly; but no "looker" either). She: Never says "No!" Always wants more. Every single day, "Demands": "I want my milk!"

I believe I've always been a well-behaved really nice guy; but what I did to "deserve" this, truly one-in-a-million, ultra-feminine sweetheart ... ???

"You've had a good life!" turns out to be a gross UNDER-estimation.
I am a man of ZERO complaints - for excellent reasons!

P.S. The above does make being a "casual NBA fan" easy-as-pie.
See what I did there?! hehe

TheIlladelph16
07-11-2014, 07:48 PM
I root for plenty of players and want them to win that aren't on the Sixers. Lebron, Duncan, Love, Durant, and plenty more are amazing players and I'll always root them on. If Kobe hadn't been on the Lakers, I'd have even rooted for him except in 2001.

This isn't specific to basketball either. I root for Peyton every Sunday. I wanted Richards and Carter to win a Stanley Cup despite their failure to bring one to my own city and team. Pujols, Trout, Kershaw, I do the same for in baseball.

I don't think this diminishes your fandom in anyway. If they are facing one of my teams, then ***** em, but when they're not they're just great to watch and root for.

Pablonovi
07-11-2014, 07:52 PM
I root for plenty of players and want them to win that aren't on the Sixers. Lebron, Duncan, Love, Durant, and plenty more are amazing players and I'll always root them on. If Kobe hadn't been on the Lakers, I'd have even rooted for him except in 2001.

This isn't specific to basketball either. I root for Peyton every Sunday. I wanted Richards and Carter to win a Stanley Cup despite their failure to bring one to my own city and team. Pujols, Trout, Kershaw, I do the same for in baseball.

I don't think this diminishes your fandom in anyway. If they are facing one of my teams, then ***** em, but when they're not they're just great to watch and root for.

Hey TheIlladelph16,
Sounds perfectly healthy, mentally-speaking, to me!
And more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

P.S. No wait a second, isn't that TOO MANY teams & players???? hehe

Bruno
07-11-2014, 07:54 PM
I like the team I root for. I like players. I like or dislike other franchises based off their current incarnation, not their history.

Pablonovi
07-11-2014, 08:38 PM
I like the team I root for. I like players. I like or dislike other franchises based off their current incarnation, not their history.

Hey Bruno,
That's entirely TOO reasonable; almost sane even!

NBA_Starter
07-11-2014, 08:39 PM
Of course it is alright!

krazylegz
07-11-2014, 08:41 PM
i'll be honest,ive never rooted for a player specifically...unless he was on my fav team,doesnt mean i dont apreciate greatness in individual players,i just dont go out of my way to root for it

Big Zo
07-11-2014, 08:45 PM
People that root for players instead of teams are just... ****. Whatever floats your boat, tho.

HoodedSB
07-11-2014, 08:50 PM
So, this thread is you publicly stating that you are done being a Lakers fan and are now going to be a "cavs" fan but really you intend to follow Lebron everywhere and thus become a certified Lebronite? Got it. You can leave your self respect over there on the table, and pick up your "shun me" cap over here.

Yeah, you need to work on the whole "reading" thing.


Who gives a **** how other people get enjoyment out of sports? You're pathetic.

JNA17
07-11-2014, 08:52 PM
Bandwagoning is fine the ones i have a problem with are the fakes who pretend they have been fans before said played joined their team and proceed to talk **** nothing worse then CASUALS talking ****

Dat join date.

What's up Justinnnn! Haven't seen ya in a while. What you think of the Bosh resigning?

Pablonovi
07-11-2014, 08:53 PM
People that root for players instead of teams are just... ****. Whatever floats your boat, tho.

Hey Big Zo,
You certainly have every right to your position.
Just wondering, if you've thought about it much (and care to respond) ... What is the BIG distinction that , in your opinion, makes rooting for teams fine while rooting for players is definitely not?

I'd really like to (better) understand the reasoning behind this.

Pablonovi
07-11-2014, 08:56 PM
Dat join date.

What's up Justinnnn! Haven't seen ya in a while. What you think of the Bosh resigning?

Hey JNA17,
I KNOW it's got to be me, my (hopefully) temporary dumbness; but you're not the first person to refer to "dat join date".

What gives with that?

IgglesFanInCO
07-11-2014, 09:01 PM
Be a fan of a team, be a fan of a player, be a fan of a coach, be a fan of a waterboy for all I ****ing care. Thats not the issue, the issue is if you either: a) Become a fan of anything purely because it is popular (thus my main beef with the non-real yankee, laker, heat, etc fans), b) Stopping your fandom without proper justification (Gotta stick with your guys through thick and thin, unless its an Aaron Hernandez type situation), c) Being ignorant about what you are a fan of, and not openly admitting to it (I.E. If you're not educated on the subject, don't talk like you are)

If you don't do any of those things then in my eyes you are a quality fan and you have every right to root for whoever/whatever whenever/however you want

Pablonovi
07-11-2014, 09:09 PM
Be a fan of a team, be a fan of a player, be a fan of a coach, be a fan of a waterboy for all I ****ing care. Thats not the issue, the issue is if you either: a) Become a fan of anything purely because it is popular (thus my main beef with the non-real yankee, laker, heat, etc fans), b) Stopping your fandom without proper justification (Gotta stick with your guys through thick and thin, unless its an Aaron Hernandez type situation), c) Being ignorant about what you are a fan of, and not openly admitting to it (I.E. If you're not educated on the subject, don't talk like you are)

If you don't do any of those things then in my eyes you are a quality fan and you have every right to root for whoever/whatever whenever/however you want

Hey IgglesFanInCO,
I KNOW you're serious; and you do raise some serious questions.
I just find your post thoroughly funny - what an interesting set of "conditions" to be acceptable as a fan.

I suspect I'm gonna be re-reading your post lots (for both the fun and for the seriousness).

2-ONE-5
07-11-2014, 09:11 PM
everyone has players they are fans of people like all the fake heat losers that were around here who are the worst. i want to see plenty of players/teams do well but im not gonna act like some diehard fan especially when i have my own team to cheer for. i cant stand those people who pretend to be a die hard fan for a 4 teams in 4 different cities

jimm120
07-11-2014, 09:13 PM
Its not about cheering for players...its that those "bandwagon" fans cheer for the team and say they're cheering cause they like the team...but in reality, they just like that one player.

In reality, its about liking winning teams.

Pablonovi
07-11-2014, 09:36 PM
Its not about cheering for players...its that those "bandwagon" fans cheer for the team and say they're cheering cause they like the team...but in reality, they just like that one player.

In reality, its about liking winning teams.

Hey jimm120,
Maybe your meaning could be a little clearer?
You're saying? that:
You don't mind people who cheer for players; you just don't like those people who do cheer for players to be claiming that they are cheering for the entire team (when they aren't). Yes?

If I've got that straight, I've got a question: given that most people who root for players, tend to root for top-quality players (as opposed to average or below-average players); and, THEN, given that those players are going to tend to strongly influence, even lead, the teams they are on - wouldn't it be hard to really claim that such fans are rooting ONLY for the player and NOT the team?

About your last sentence/line: Are you saying that: for those who root for players rather than teams ...
No, I think it's better I not try to guess at your meaning here.

Would you be willing to rephrase that last phrase/sentence for clarity's sake?

JWO35
07-12-2014, 12:18 AM
Hey JNA17,
I KNOW it's got to be me, my (hopefully) temporary dumbness; but you're not the first person to refer to "dat join date".

What gives with that?

Dat join date = Somebody who claims they have always been a fan of Team X, but joined PSD a couple of days after team x made a huge acquisition (ex. "I've been a Cavs fan forever and never was mad at LeBron" *Join Date* 7/11/14)

slashsnake
07-12-2014, 09:46 AM
Be a fan of a team, be a fan of a player, be a fan of a coach, be a fan of a waterboy for all I ****ing care. Thats not the issue, the issue is if you either: a) Become a fan of anything purely because it is popular (thus my main beef with the non-real yankee, laker, heat, etc fans), b) Stopping your fandom without proper justification (Gotta stick with your guys through thick and thin, unless its an Aaron Hernandez type situation), c) Being ignorant about what you are a fan of, and not openly admitting to it (I.E. If you're not educated on the subject, don't talk like you are)

If you don't do any of those things then in my eyes you are a quality fan and you have every right to root for whoever/whatever whenever/however you want

agree for some of this. I became an Eagles fan because I liked Randall Cunningham when he first showed up. I liked the excitement he brought to the game and it was his popularity which started it. I wasn't going to cheer for Miami at the time (Denver later) just because they happened to be nearby. Now I did put those teams up on my list of teams I would watch and follow because they were local, and followed other teams with players I liked on them because of that.

The NBA is a bit different though. One player makes up such a big part of a team. I liked the Heat as a kid, but became a Nuggets fan. I always liked Lebron, and would follow him, and a few other stars too. If my team wasn't playing or in the running, I'd cheer that one on.

My wife though is the casual fan. Football, she likes Peyton. She will cheer for his team wherever he plays. Ok. Basketball, her teams follow her likes and dislikes of the players. She hates Manu so dislikes the spurs, she likes Love so cheers for his teams.

I don't see an issue with that. I've heard people say you have to cheer the team in your city? Really, because my area code is close to theirs we have to cheer them on?

The team is a business owned by a billionaire. It's kind of funny as the guys who get ridiculed for changing teams because poor management puts out a bad product are ridiculed by the same people who make fun of guys when apple puts out a crappy product and some guy buys it because he buys everything apple no matter what. Same with music. Metallica starts putting out crap music, I'll listen to a different band. I'm not upset if someone feels a brand is putting out a dud of a product and wants to change brands until they improve.

I get being a fanatic of your team. I am with my Eagles, though that was tempered some with Vick. But when it comes to hockey or baseball, I'll watch the players and teams that excite me and cheer for them.

raiderfaninTX
07-12-2014, 10:04 AM
Dat join date = Somebody who claims they have always been a fan of Team X, but joined PSD a couple of days after team x made a huge acquisition (ex. "I've been a Cavs fan forever and never was mad at LeBron" *Join Date* 7/11/14)

It's kind of dumb though, some people are lurkers on sites.

Ware_Spencer
07-12-2014, 10:39 AM
There is rarely any logic to sticking with 1 team. but there is a few.

City/State - The team has nothing to do with a city. Besides that they steal your tax dollars to build arenas.

Owner - Never heard of someone liking a team because of the owner.

GM/Coaches - I can respect this more. Because some teams keep the same group and system like the Spurs.
But I call BS on everyone else. Coaches change more then any other position. People lie to themselves and say we have a great culture. If your coach changes every 2 years. Your culture is garbage.

Players - Players change almost as often as coaches. There might be a few who say I like them because of this particular player who has been with the same team(Duncan, Kobe etc). Which I respect also but its rare.

Calling someone fair weather fan or bandwagan fan is BS unless they just pick the best teams.

I have more respect for fans who just enjoy watching particular players or systems.
I am one of those. I like the Jazz only because the culture they are aiming towards. I rooted against them when Stockton and Malone were here. I liked Stockton but I didn't like Malone or Sloan.
I root for particular players and systems. When I see a team building a system I root for them. If they just throw together talent and hope it works. I lose interest.
What the Spurs have done for this league is so important. It kept team basketball alive. Showed that you don't need a Supertar to win a championship.
So if someone calls you out for liking a particular player or system. Ask them. What is the logic behind sticking with your team? Why are you loyal?

Pablonovi
07-12-2014, 01:32 PM
Dat join date = Somebody who claims they have always been a fan of Team X, but joined PSD a couple of days after team x made a huge acquisition (ex. "I've been a Cavs fan forever and never was mad at LeBron" *Join Date* 7/11/14)

Hey JWO35,
Thanx for this explanation. Makes sense to me; a good deal more sense than what I had been suspecting was going on.

I had indeed been "guessing" wrong. I was thinking it was a slightly-veiled allusion to somebody maybe being the dupe of an earlier poster. Which "confused" me.

I guess I'm glad to know that I wasn't quite as dumb as I thought I was. hehe

Pablonovi
07-12-2014, 01:39 PM
It's kind of dumb though, some people are lurkers on sites.

Hey raiderfaninTX,
Myself, I lurked for two full years here; so I've still got a full-year as an actual PSD-er to catch up to that.

btw, why did I lurk so long (or take so long to join)?
1) I thought I didn't know enough to comment on a lot of the stuff (probably still true, hehe);

2) I wanted to "make a big entry" with a "serious/definitive" NBA GOAT post (I've posted a lot about NBA GOAT issues; I couldn't say any of them has been "definitive" yet. Glad I didn't wait for that!)

3) I was trying to sort out how I felt about the heavy-duty (at that time) flame-warring (especially in the Lakers' Forum - my 55+ years-long favorite team); and how to respond in a principled fashion were I to join. (I'm thinking I've probably kept my own "flaming" down to close to zero; and have been "useful" in helping to tone down that of others - I could be wrong; would NOT be the first time!)

Clippersfan86
07-12-2014, 01:39 PM
Hey JWO35,
Thanx for this explanation. Makes sense to me; a good deal more sense than what I had been suspecting was going on.

I had indeed been "guessing" wrong. I was thinking it was a slightly-veiled allusion to somebody maybe being the dupe of an earlier poster. Which "confused" me.

I guess I'm glad to know that I wasn't quite as dumb as I thought I was. hehe


Hahaha. You crack me up Pablo. PSD is opening your eyes to 2014 terminology! You're supposed to walk around telling people "dat -----". Didn't you know? :p

likemystylez
07-12-2014, 01:44 PM
Jump on that band wagon.....

All seriousness anyone else more or less cheer for players and not so much teams?

Kill me but I do this, now with football I will be a raider fan until I die and really don't cheer for anyone else but when It comes to basketball I cheer for the success of specific player.

I cheer for lebron because people want him to fail, I cheered for Duncan because I wanted him to get at least one more, and I will cheer for westbrook because that heart he shows on the floor.

Don't mistake this for a lack of
Knowledge of the game.

Ever since Hakeem retired I stopped sticking with a team and just payed attention to players.

since your a raider fan, why not root for the warriors in the same complex. They are as exciting to root for as any team in the league and the fans that fill up Oracle are NOT casual fans. the diehard fans who suffered through the last 20 yrs deserve all the respect in the world.

LMAo at the cleveland fans who said they were better off without lebron and were burning his jersey- LOl 4 yrs later they completely turned around.....what a joke. if your gonna hate someone- hate them for real. (not that I think you should hate someone for killing themselves to make the cavs relevent for 7 years straight)

Hopefully now the real cavs fans will be able to appreciate having an elite team- even if it doesnt lead to a championship every year.

likemystylez
07-12-2014, 01:49 PM
yea i don't understand the stigma of being a fan of a player vs a team. who cares?

I guess I dont understand it. I mean- what happens when a player retires? Do you stop liking basketball- or do you become a fan of his commercials on TV or his appearence on dancing with the stars?

Also- if you are just a fan of a player- do you really care who wins and loses the game? or are you just hoping the player scores X amount of points? it just doesnt seem as fullfilling to root for a player only and not stick with an organization. But maybe for casual fans- they dont live and breath basketball all day like the hardcore fans- so they dont need to follow every single detail in a franchise..... they can just turn on espn and listen to skip bayless and stephen a smith talk about a premeir player.

Pablonovi
07-12-2014, 01:56 PM
There is rarely any logic to sticking with 1 team. but there is a few.

City/State - The team has nothing to do with a city. Besides that they steal your tax dollars to build arenas.

Owner - Never heard of someone liking a team because of the owner.

GM/Coaches - I can respect this more. Because some teams keep the same group and system like the Spurs.
But I call BS on everyone else. Coaches change more then any other position. People lie to themselves and say we have a great culture. If your coach changes every 2 years. Your culture is garbage.

Players - Players change almost as often as coaches. There might be a few who say I like them because of this particular player who has been with the same team(Duncan, Kobe etc). Which I respect also but its rare.

Calling someone fair weather fan or bandwagan fan is BS unless they just pick the best teams.

I have more respect for fans who just enjoy watching particular players or systems.
I am one of those. I like the Jazz only because the culture they are aiming towards. I rooted against them when Stockton and Malone were here. I liked Stockton but I didn't like Malone or Sloan.
I root for particular players and systems. When I see a team building a system I root for them. If they just throw together talent and hope it works. I lose interest.
What the Spurs have done for this league is so important. It kept team basketball alive. Showed that you don't need a Supertar to win a championship.
So if someone calls you out for liking a particular player or system. Ask them. What is the logic behind sticking with your team? Why are you loyal?

Hey ware_spencer,
This is a well-thought out and thought-provoking post. Nice.

I have this "theory" (being into "theories", or being into coming up with theories, this is NOT unusual for me).
This "theory" I call "tribalism". My: me, partner, kids, family, group, school, town, city, state, country, race, religion, planet (forget that last one?).

Anyway, the way this "theory" works: you take kids when they're too young to think for themselves (yet); and you fill their head full of "our tribe is better / the best"; and, seeing as kids are programmed (for excellent survival reasons) to trust virtually-absolutely what they are shown and taught by their guardians - the kids become "tribalists" (and tend to train THEIR kids similarly, on thru the generations -(like that "profound" part?)

The result, imho, is that we've got FAR too much "my team"-ism; causing people to be far less objective than they really should be about their own selves & "teams"; and far too-critical of, even hateful towards, any and every other "team".

You can see this, imo, quite clearly at kids sporting events. Lots of parents almost out-of-control (much more so than their poor confused-by-all-the-intensity, kids) screaming and yelling and getting hot under the collar. You notice especially in how, almost-without-exception, fans criticize the referee-ing. Everybody but the home-town fans can SEE that those home-town fans are "out of line", exaggerating, seeing things far too one-sidedly. And the same goes for every other team or "team".

My mom was a "tribalist", especially about her religion and her God. I think I was super fortunate that my dad was near-unique in being not just not-very "tribalist"; but in being outspokenly "anti-tribalist". (Probably has a lot to do with how "weird/unique" I've always been - I just never saw things "tribal-istically"; nor ever felt a comfortable member of any "tribe(s)".

In sum, I think that "tribalism" ("my team, first, last & always") does a lot more harm than good; including, the not super-important thing that it tends to seriously decrease one's enjoyment of the overall "game" / sport / life / planet.

Clippersfan86
07-12-2014, 01:56 PM
I guess I dont understand it. I mean- what happens when a player retires? Do you stop liking basketball- or do you become a fan of his commercials on TV or his appearence on dancing with the stars?

Also- if you are just a fan of a player- do you really care who wins and loses the game? or are you just hoping the player scores X amount of points? it just doesnt seem as fullfilling to root for a player only and not stick with an organization. But maybe for casual fans- they dont live and breath basketball all day like the hardcore fans- so they dont need to follow every single detail in a franchise..... they can just turn on espn and listen to skip bayless and stephen a smith talk about a premeir player.

I think I'm much like this. I'm the fan of the team, in large part because it's the one constant. If I become a fan of a player first and he's traded the next day it sucks. Now as a fan of an organization/team first... I can still follow the careers of ex Clippers, such as Eric Bledsoe last year. I was rooting for him and watching his games, even though my heart is in it with the Clippers.

I never let one player become bigger than the team. So my summed up reasons for fandom.

1. Love underdogs and the Clippers historically are the biggest ones.

2. It's a So Cal team. So access is easy.

3. Ralph Lawler. Got hooked on his radio broadcasts before I even became a Clippers fan.

ThuglifeJ
07-12-2014, 02:28 PM
Nothing wrong with being a players fan.. It IS a players league.

Just don't hide the fact you are shouldn't be a prob..except on PSD who knows

likemystylez
07-12-2014, 02:33 PM
Nothing wrong with being a players fan.. It IS a players league.

Just don't hide the fact you are shouldn't be a prob..except on PSD who knows

LOL what do you do when your player gets injured or retires?

or do you root for like 30-40 players- and if thats the case- how passionately can you follow all those players? Not as passionately as someone can follow an organization. Thats why fans of players are considered less of fans

slashsnake
07-12-2014, 02:33 PM
I guess I dont understand it. I mean- what happens when a player retires? Do you stop liking basketball- or do you become a fan of his commercials on TV or his appearence on dancing with the stars?



And what happens when your team has players that don't play ball well. Do you cheer on ineptitude? Just limit yourself to only liking bad basketball? Do you become a fan of losing? Do you buy jerseys for guys like Arron Afflalo that you know won't be around long and aren't elite players? Do you just watch the playoffs every year with no interest in actual outcomes because of the mascot running around and the name on the hardwood at half court? Going a little too far on this but you can see the flip side to your statement there.

I like hockey, and I guess the Avs are my team, but really I watch it for a lot of players I like and I'll cheer on their teams and follow them a bit more closely than the rest. Same with Baseball. Sure I like the Rockies as they are closer, but the little logo on the guys cap doesn't determine what I think about him, and pro sports is about the players

Same with the NBA to a point. I like the Nuggets, and will watch their games, but if they are failing to put out a good product, I will watch the players I like, the guys playing great basketball and cheer them on as well. I'll still want the Nuggets to beat the Clippers, but I'll cheer for that team against most other teams for example.

ThuglifeJ
07-12-2014, 02:34 PM
I'm sorry I can't respect that. Just my opinion.

I root for my city above all else!

Ok not everyone's from a strong fanbase city of state for their sport. You're from new York...

Try to have some perspective

ThuglifeJ
07-12-2014, 02:38 PM
Nothing wrong with being a players fan.. It IS a players league.

Just don't hide the fact you are shouldn't be a prob..except on PSD who knows

LOL what do you do when your player gets injured or retires?

or do you root for like 30-40 players- and if thats the case- how passionately can you follow all those players? Not as passionately as someone can follow an organization. Thats why fans of players are considered less of fans

Huh? Its not like I don't have my set teams. Its just sometimes a player comes along that steals you're fandom and you watch their career throughout. Im always a fan of my teams but players can be equally if not more exciting if your particular teams aren't exciting.

A player career only comes once and then its gone why wouldn't you watch it through obviously the prime days are the best but it's still entertaining to see the flashbacks and see what they make of both beginning middle and end

How is this hard to understand. Its not like you don't have enough time to watch and support both...

ThuglifeJ
07-12-2014, 02:42 PM
Nothing wrong with being a players fan.. It IS a players league.

Just don't hide the fact you are shouldn't be a prob..except on PSD who knows

LOL what do you do when your player gets injured or retires?

or do you root for like 30-40 players- and if thats the case- how passionately can you follow all those players? Not as passionately as someone can follow an organization. Thats why fans of players are considered less of fans

And when they retire you just remenisce of the good times..youtube...occasionally watch some old games or check in on what they're up to..

In the meantime continue to watch and support whatever else you're a fan of.



Or just ignore youre favorite player because the fact he isn't on your favorite team? I guess if u want to live that way go for it.

slashsnake
07-12-2014, 02:48 PM
LOL what do you do when your player gets injured or retires?

or do you root for like 30-40 players- and if thats the case- how passionately can you follow all those players? Not as passionately as someone can follow an organization. Thats why fans of players are considered less of fans

I guess.. I am a huge Stephen Curry fan for example to name one of them. I don't let the fact that he has a different logo on his jersey keep me from enjoying watching him play and win because his billionaire owner built his company with that logo instead of one with mountains on it.

What do you do in the playoffs if your team isn't there? That's when the best of the best in the NBA are playing. Where the best drama in the sport is. Do you just drop any rooting interest once they start? How does that make you a more passionate basketball fan that you write off the best part of the season?

Lets say you were a Warriors fan who was a die hard, only cheer for my team guy. Does that mean in 18 of the past 21 years you've actually lost interest in the best part of the season?

Does it mean I am less of a fan because I enjoy the players who actually play basketball more than their cartoon mascot and city they got a stadium deal from. That I like Blake Griffin because he is fun to watch more than because Donald Sterling markets that team well to the public?

slashsnake
07-12-2014, 02:50 PM
pretty thought provoking comments so far. Like I said, I am a bit of both here.

likemystylez
07-12-2014, 03:05 PM
I guess.. I am a huge Stephen Curry fan for example to name one of them. I don't let the fact that he has a different logo on his jersey keep me from enjoying watching him play and win because his billionaire owner built his company with that logo instead of one with mountains on it.

What do you do in the playoffs if your team isn't there? That's when the best of the best in the NBA are playing. Where the best drama in the sport is. Do you just drop any rooting interest once they start? How does that make you a more passionate basketball fan that you write off the best part of the season?

Lets say you were a Warriors fan who was a die hard, only cheer for my team guy. Does that mean in 18 of the past 21 years you've actually lost interest in the best part of the season?

Does it mean I am less of a fan because I enjoy the players who actually play basketball more than their cartoon mascot and city they got a stadium deal from. That I like Blake Griffin because he is fun to watch more than because Donald Sterling markets that team well to the public?

I actually am I die hard warriors fan. When the warriors arent in the playoffs- I follow the playoffs still but as a casual fan. When the warriors are in the playoffs- I follow the games a lot more passionately and I really care about who wins and loses. For instance- I still have nightmares from game 1 of the spurs series in 2013. If two teams I dont care about are playing- I usually tend to root for the underdog, but I dont lose sleep either way.

This year- I was just rooting for a competitive series int he finals- lol so it was dissapointing. If I were a spurs fan, I would have loved every second of it though.

MarkieMark48
07-12-2014, 03:23 PM
absolutely... I def cheer for players, ive already got a guy changing my sigbar this weekend. But Bosh is another of my favorites so ill be cheering for him to do well

slashsnake
07-12-2014, 03:41 PM
I actually am I die hard warriors fan. When the warriors arent in the playoffs- I follow the playoffs still but as a casual fan. When the warriors are in the playoffs- I follow the games a lot more passionately and I really care about who wins and loses. For instance- I still have nightmares from game 1 of the spurs series in 2013. If two teams I dont care about are playing- I usually tend to root for the underdog, but I dont lose sleep either way.

This year- I was just rooting for a competitive series int he finals- lol so it was dissapointing. If I were a spurs fan, I would have loved every second of it though.

Just showing the point.. There's been 315 playoff series in the past 21 years, and 21 NBA finals. Is the fan the guy who was die hard for 5 of those early round series, and a casual fan for 310 including all 21 finals series, and all 42 conference finals series? Or is the fan the guy still having a blast rooting for guys and teams through those biggest moments of every season?

I think we are pretty close actually here. Nuggets are my team, but then I cheer for players. I like Curry and Igoudala, and cheer on the Warriors in a lot of their games (didn't like Monta, so it wasn't till recently). I liked them a lot in their Don Nelson days.. The Mullin, Tim Hardaway, Tyrone Hill, Billy Owens etc. days. Not so much in between, and other players and thus their teams would get my attention.

likemystylez
07-12-2014, 04:33 PM
Just showing the point.. There's been 315 playoff series in the past 21 years, and 21 NBA finals. Is the fan the guy who was die hard for 5 of those early round series, and a casual fan for 310 including all 21 finals series, and all 42 conference finals series? Or is the fan the guy still having a blast rooting for guys and teams through those biggest moments of every season?

I think we are pretty close actually here. Nuggets are my team, but then I cheer for players. I like Curry and Igoudala, and cheer on the Warriors in a lot of their games (didn't like Monta, so it wasn't till recently). I liked them a lot in their Don Nelson days.. The Mullin, Tim Hardaway, Tyrone Hill, Billy Owens etc. days. Not so much in between, and other players and thus their teams would get my attention.

well just having fun watching a game is one thing- but when a game is so important to you that you are 100% focused on the game when it is on for every second- and not able to engage in a conversation. Thats a diehard fan- I dont understand how anybody could get that into EVERY playoff game. I like other players- but I dont really care who wins or loses games not invovled with the warriors.

Pablonovi
07-12-2014, 04:35 PM
These Finals were for me, an example of who/how I cheer for stuff in the NBA.
I like LeBron a bit more than TD. I expected a good-to-great series; and that LeBron would really shine.

Then Spurfection captures my imagination with their exquisite team-work on both sides of the ball; and the constant shuffling in of fresh "troops" - overwhelming and demoralizing that Great Heat Defense (and, seemingly everybody but LeBron).

I was absolutely thrilled by and for the Spurs (and loved LeBron's play in the losing effort).
IF I had stuck with my love for LeBron, I definitely would NOT have enjoyed the Finals nearly as much.
So I see it as win-win: Love and root for my team (Lakers); and love and root for a number of other players and teams.

Pablonovi
07-12-2014, 04:42 PM
Hahaha. You crack me up Pablo. PSD is opening your eyes to 2014 terminology! You're supposed to walk around telling people "dat -----". Didn't you know? :p

Hey Clippersfan86,
LOL
This reminds me of what shakes me to the core, my ALMOST worst mistake of my life:

One of my kids tells me to Shut The F Up!

At that moment it did not even occur to me that that particular phrased could have changed at all; much less so much so that it was pure joking around, even the opposite of what I had always known it to mean.

I actually wrote a scorching hot "flaming" response. At the last moment, I hesitated; asked what was meant; got "clarified" and DELETED that damned message before it BLEEPED both our lives for a long, long time.

P.S. I'm always (gently) laughing at myself (with good reason). So not only does my "dinosaurishness" give you chuckles, it does me too. Fact is, I'm not really keeping up; I'd guess that, as the newer young people replace the previous young people, my "guessing-percentage 'success' (right!) rate" keeps creeping steadily downwards!

"Welcome to old-age-itis, Pablo!" hehe

ManRam
07-14-2014, 02:32 PM
I've stuck with my teams, despite not leaving where they're located in essentially my entire life. But I don't see a damn thing wrong with rooting for a player, at all. I don't get why fans get so upset with other fans for their rooting interests. This is all just sport...do what makes you happy. It's entertainment.