PDA

View Full Version : In a game, which is more important? Good offense or good defense?



force_within
07-08-2014, 09:32 PM
Discuss?

goingfor28
07-08-2014, 09:34 PM
D

FlashBolt
07-08-2014, 09:35 PM
Defense. Or else Phoenix Suns would be champs during Nash's days.

kobe4thewinbang
07-08-2014, 09:45 PM
Good defense is essential to a winning team because it weathers and has the potential to completely shut down the opposition. But a team also has to make shots. For example, Chicago is a gutsy defensive team but has trouble making enough shots to win games. The best example of both worlds is the new Spurs team or the championship Detroit Pistons team that beat the Lakers in 2004 and lost in Game 7 to the Spurs. But defense is more important. For example, D'Antoni's loathsome Lakers were scoring 120+ but still losing by 20 because they had no defense, whereas a team that has great defense will hold the opposition to 65-80 points.

D-Leethal
07-08-2014, 09:51 PM
Doesn't matter as long as your the better team. There is more than one way to skin a cat, eat a reeses and there is more than one way to being the best basketball team in the NBA.

sens#11fan
07-08-2014, 09:55 PM
Defense, the 04 Pistons scored 90 ppg as a team, but allowed 84 ppg.

elledaddy
07-08-2014, 10:02 PM
Defense, the 04 Pistons scored 90 ppg as a team, but allowed 84 ppg.


the amount of points you score or give up dont directly show if you're good at offense or defense. In the case of Detroit that year, their PACE played a major role,





Ps..... NO team in history has won by scoring less points than their opponent so offense has to be more important by just a lil bit

0nekhmer
07-08-2014, 10:23 PM
Neither one will win a championship. Bobcats vs golden state is a good example

SILVER SEAVER
07-08-2014, 10:28 PM
Defense but as you see in Chicago's case you need somebody who has the ability to create their own shot and score down the stretch.

force_within
07-08-2014, 10:30 PM
majority of us agrees that defense could be more important that offense, were talking here about basketball but does this also applies to other sports? like soccer?

jerellh528
07-08-2014, 10:30 PM
MORE important? Offense. But a lack of either O or D won't win a ring unless it's historically good.

likemystylez
07-08-2014, 10:46 PM
In a game?- hard to say, it really depends who you are playing against. Its trendy for people to say defense is so important (I personally think in peoples mind- Defense=hard work/desire/heart/passion/etc.)

I think in actuality- if you want to create an identity for your team, you go with the talent on the team. If you have good offensive players... you should try and win with offense, if you have good defense on your team- you try and make it ugly and scrape out wins by outworking your opponent.

One thing in defenses favor though- defense tends to be more consistent and while one player can take over for stretches offensively- solid defense is a team effort in most cases (although a good defensive big man tends to make a team look better than they are)

SILVER SEAVER
07-08-2014, 10:53 PM
The Pistons in '04 were a different beast altogether. For instance those Suns when Nash was in his prime with A'mare and crew, all-time great offense but the coach whose last name started with D didn't believe in that at all.

KnicksorBust
07-08-2014, 11:01 PM
Offense. Didnt any of you watch the finals?

ManRam
07-08-2014, 11:04 PM
Takes both. At the very least, you can win with either. The game's 100% dualistic. Both sides matter equally.

XpLiCiTT
07-08-2014, 11:05 PM
Good defense is good offense.

likemystylez
07-08-2014, 11:07 PM
The Pistons in '04 were a different beast altogether. For instance those Suns when Nash was in his prime with A'mare and crew, all-time great offense but the coach whose last name started with D didn't believe in that at all.

That suns team was good enough to win a championship- stuff happened and they didnt win, but it wasnt because of their lack of defense.

Obviously they werent a lock to win it, but that suns team was good enough to win a championship

FlashBolt
07-08-2014, 11:09 PM
Well, you obviously need a good variety of both but defense is still more important than offense IMO. Look at the Bulls. They have crappy offense but due to their defense, they are able to pull out wins by making it tough for their opponents to score. Not to mention that you're bound to score eventually regardless of how bad you are offensively. Great teams need both to win championships but a strong defense makes more of a difference.

kingkenny01
07-08-2014, 11:15 PM
Takes both. At the very least, you can win with either. The game's 100% dualistic. Both sides matter equally.

This. Dead on.

D-Leethal
07-08-2014, 11:15 PM
Takes both. At the very least, you can win with either. The game's 100% dualistic. Both sides matter equally.

Well put.


Good defense is good offense.

And good offense leads to good defense. This isn't football, you don't separate the two. You make your shots the other team has to inbound the basketball as opposed to getting long rebounds and hitting the break - that makes it much easier to get into your half court defense. Thats what every defense wants (notice how the team that forced a brick into a long rebound got an easy bucket). Its a beautiful thing.

elledaddy
07-08-2014, 11:18 PM
Well, you obviously need a good variety of both but defense is still more important than offense IMO. Look at the Bulls. They have crappy offense but due to their defense, they are able to pull out wins by making it tough for their opponents to score. Not to mention that you're bound to score eventually regardless of how bad you are offensively. Great teams need both to win championships but a strong defense makes more of a difference.

If a team is hitting their shots( hot) its NOTHING a defense can do. No such thing as being "in the zone" defensively. Offensive gameplans are designed to BEAT defense while Defensive gameplans are designed to SLOWDOWN offense. Great Offense will BEAT great Defense EVERYTIME in any given game

XpLiCiTT
07-08-2014, 11:19 PM
And good offense leads to good defense. This isn't football, you don't separate the two. You make your shots the other team has to inbound the basketball as opposed to getting long rebounds and hitting the break - that makes it much easier to get into your half court defense. Thats what every defense wants (notice how the team that forced a brick into a long rebound got an easy bucket). Its a beautiful thing.

It was just my way of saying I think defense is a little more important. You can't make every shot, but you can defend most. And good offense doesn't necessarily lead to good defense. Some people just flat out don't/can't defend. Making a shot obviously puts your team in a better position back on the other end, but doesn't necessarily mean they're gonna execute.

I agree, both are important obviously.

FlashBolt
07-08-2014, 11:24 PM
If a team is hitting their shots( hot) its NOTHING a defense can do. No such thing as being "in the zone" defensively. Offensive gameplans are designed to BEAT defense while Defensive gameplans are designed to SLOWDOWN offense. Great Offense will BEAT great Defense EVERYTIME in any given game

There is a such thing as being in the zone defensively.. It's when you cause turnover after turnover - which has happened before. How many championship teams have won with great offense and so-so defense? Now, how many teams have won with great defense and so-so offense?

tredigs
07-08-2014, 11:25 PM
Your odds of winning a championship without an elite D are very slim. It gives you more room for error than the opposite.

I don't feel like looking it up, but I can guarantee if you go back 15 years (or however long), the Defensive Ratings of Finals teams (especially the winners) will be better than the Offensive Ratings due to that fact.

AsiandudePH
07-08-2014, 11:28 PM
Defense + Teamwork = Spurs = Championship

Shlumpledink
07-08-2014, 11:29 PM
Good defense only gets you so far, but I think defense is more important.

RaiderLakersA's
07-08-2014, 11:30 PM
Good offense is more important in today's basketball.

Good defense usually depends on other factors...like how closely the refs are calling the physicality of a game.

bgdreton
07-08-2014, 11:32 PM
If a team is hitting their shots( hot) its NOTHING a defense can do. No such thing as being "in the zone" defensively. Offensive gameplans are designed to BEAT defense while Defensive gameplans are designed to SLOWDOWN offense. Great Offense will BEAT great Defense EVERYTIME in any given game

What are you talking about. You can be locked in defensively just as much as you can be in the zone on offense. The object of the game is to stop the other team from scoring not just slow them down.. No coach in the huddle is going to say we need to slow these guys down, the coach will say we need to get stops however. It's easy to say great O beats great D bc the offense gets lucky from time to time or someone could be in big head mode ok your not stopping that. How often is a player playing that well tho? Top 5 or 6 players in the league maybe on a consistent basis... The percentages of you missing a difficult fade away or shot are greatly in the D favor. Ultimately you need both to some degree to win a championship.

RaiderLakersA's
07-08-2014, 11:33 PM
Defense + Teamwork = Spurs = Championship

And yet, the reason why the Spurs won the Championship is because they scored seemingly at will against the Heat.

tredigs
07-08-2014, 11:41 PM
And yet, the reason why the Spurs won the Championship is because they scored seemingly at will against the Heat.

Worst D Miami has had since they formed the Big 3, and while the Spurs scored at will, I'd say it was in large part to their defense and transition O thereafter that laid waste to Miami. Heat never broke 100 points in a game even with the Spurs pouring it on every night.

ink
07-08-2014, 11:47 PM
The 2004-07 Suns were a model example of the importance of balance between offence and defence. Their nemesis was the Spurs who could match them shot for shot on offence and always get key stops when needed. That was all that separated a great Suns team from 2-3 deep post season runs.

BALANCE.

XpLiCiTT
07-08-2014, 11:48 PM
And yet, the reason why the Spurs won the Championship is because they scored seemingly at will against the Heat.

They also held the Heat under 100 pts all 5 games. Don't get me wrong the Spurs shot the lights out, but that could be partially attributed to the good looks that were created from the surprisingly poor defense the Heat played all series. Offense definitely wasn't the sole reason they won.

ink
07-08-2014, 11:52 PM
And yet, the reason why the Spurs won the Championship is because they scored seemingly at will against the Heat.

They also held the Heat under 100 pts all 5 games. Don't get me wrong the Spurs shot the lights out, but that could be partially attributed to the good looks that were created from the surprisingly poor defense the Heat played all series. Offense definitely wasn't the sole reason they won.

No doubt. Their D was second nature. This is a franchise that exemplifies fundamentals at BOTH ends of the court.

It's never one or the other, always BOTH.

Seizabmc
07-09-2014, 02:07 AM
Neither of them is more important than the other.

That's like chosing between having water or a sink.

You need both in order to wash your hands.

I think offense is more talent.

As we're defense comes from effort.

And that's why some guys aren't as good defensively and some guys aren't as good offensively .

I think what's more important than both of them things is chemistry and team work.

And that's why having the right coach and system is so important in order to blend the two together and make it work.

Phil Jackson is one of the best at this .

Example - Kobe and shaq.

Red Holman- 71 knicks.

Greg pop- the spurs.

The spurs are a great example

We all have seen this past finals,
Those spurs were a beauty to watch . They played consistently on both ends of the floor.

You can say that there offense won them the ring.

But in the same breath you can also say that there D won them the ring.

But ,If I was playing a pick up game and I was captin, then my first choice would be the guy who can score the best .

And that is why , as much as people want to criticsis melo,
Then why does everybody want him on there team ?

tredigs
07-09-2014, 02:11 AM
Neither of them is more important than the other.

That's like chosing between having water or a sink.

You need both in order to wash your hands.

I think offense is more talent.

As we're defense comes from effort.

And that's why some guys aren't as good defensively and some guys aren't as good offensively .

I think what's more important than both of them things is chemistry and team work.

And that's why having the right coach and system is so important in order to blend the two together and make it work.

Phil Jackson is one of the best at this .

Example - Kobe and shaq.

Red Holman- 71 knicks.

Greg pop- the spurs.

The spurs are a great example

We all have seen this past finals,
Those spurs were a beauty to watch . They played consistently on both ends of the floor.

You can say that there offense won them the ring.

But in the same breath you can also say that there D won them the ring.

But ,If I was playing a pick up game and I was captin, then my first choice would be the guy who can score the best .

And that is why , as much as people want to criticsis melo,
Then why does everybody want him on there team ?

Lmfao. I'll take the water and figure it out from there.

XpLiCiTT
07-09-2014, 02:12 AM
Lmfao. I'll take the water and figure it out from there.

:laugh: I was thinking that but didn't wanna say anything :laugh:

Nikeman
07-09-2014, 02:23 AM
In the past, defense.

These days I'd argue offense. Reason being, Charlotte had the 4th best scoring defense this season? They allowed 97 ppg, pretty darn close to 100.

All the elite teams in the West, OKC, Houston, Clippers allowed 100+ ppg, with San Antonio allowing 97.5

In the playoffs, Miami and San Antonio allowed 95, but OKC, Clippers, Golden State, Portland, Houston all allowed 100+.

In today's day its whoever outscores their opponent wins.

I would argue its because our league has become softer, and teams could play more physical and get away with it back in the day while today there are so many touch fouls. The refs these days limit physical defense, and its become an offensive game.

And I think that is what the league wants, Chicago who had the leagues best defense, was boring as hell to watch. The NBA wants to market big dunks, and alley-oops to attract fans, the average fan doesn't appreciate quality defense.

Kashmir13579
07-09-2014, 02:30 AM
Offense

Redrum187
07-09-2014, 05:09 AM
They are definitely equal. The less you have of one, the more you need of the other. Or stated inversely, the more you have of one, the less you need of the other.

If Player 1 on Team A shoots 100% from 3-point range and plays the full 48 minutes and never has his shot blocked or stolen (God-like offensive handles), Team A can afford to have all 5 players lay down and rest every once in a while, letting Team B just run in for a dunk. Unless Team B also has a player exactly like Player 1 on Team A, in which case, it is dead even and it's more about coaching as to who wins (working the clock).

If Player 1 on Team A blocks 100% of all opponent shots, and steals 100% of all passes, then all Team A has to do is make one basket or make one foul shot and let Player 1 do his defensive magic for the full 48 minutes (a given he is capable of doing this for a full 48 minutes).

Both scenarios are extremes. The point: Both are equally important; one is not greater or more important than the other.

PurpleLynch
07-09-2014, 07:15 AM
They both matters,the key it's the play-system. All best coaches in the Nba did that to have contenders.
But it's true that certain teams focused more on defense(I think all Pistons's teams that won a championship did it) and others on offense(D'Antoni's Suns,even if they didn't win anything and imo the Heat in their four years run.)
Three peat Lakers,MJ&Pippen's Bulls,Magic&Kareem's Lakers,Russell's Celtics,Spurs 2014 were examples of a perfect mix of offense and defense imo(The list could be longer,but right now these teams come on top of my mind)

PS: I said that the Heat were a more offense oriented team,that doesn't mean they didn't have a good defense.Actually,they were good on D,but for me there were better championship teams on defense than James/Bosh/Wade's Heat.

thenaj17
07-09-2014, 07:18 AM
the amount of points you score or give up dont directly show if you're good at offense or defense. In the case of Detroit that year, their PACE played a major role,





Ps..... NO team in history has won by scoring less points than their opponent so offense has to be more important by just a lil bit

Conversely, you could say NO team in history has won by conceding more than they score so defense has to be more important...

BALLER R
07-09-2014, 07:49 AM
You need both. But I would say you need to be able to make stop when it matters the most.

D-Leethal
07-09-2014, 09:21 AM
Great offense with timely stops can win a chip just as easily as great defense with timely hoops.

D-Leethal
07-09-2014, 09:24 AM
The 2004-07 Suns were a model example of the importance of balance between offence and defence. Their nemesis was the Spurs who could match them shot for shot on offence and always get key stops when needed. That was all that separated a great Suns team from 2-3 deep post season runs.

BALANCE.

The Suns example is regurgitated way too often. For one - they beat better defensive teams in the playoffs multiple times. For two - two of those 4 years they had no chance 1) Amare missed the entire season and 2) the game 5 suspensions in a 2-2 series with PHX having HCA.

I have a hard time using a two year window as evidence as to why defense is more important.

Even MJ said - team work and intelligence wins champions. One side of the court is not more important than the other.

D-Leethal
07-09-2014, 09:26 AM
Your odds of winning a championship without an elite D are very slim. It gives you more room for error than the opposite.

I don't feel like looking it up, but I can guarantee if you go back 15 years (or however long), the Defensive Ratings of Finals teams (especially the winners) will be better than the Offensive Ratings due to that fact.

Even if that is true, it doesnt definitively prove anything outside of the best teams in the past 15 years were defensively driven. Doesnt mean the right offensive team with timely D couldn't beat them.

ManRam
07-09-2014, 09:32 AM
Your odds of winning a championship without an elite D are very slim. It gives you more room for error than the opposite.

I don't feel like looking it up, but I can guarantee if you go back 15 years (or however long), the Defensive Ratings of Finals teams (especially the winners) will be better than the Offensive Ratings due to that fact.

Spurs: 7th ORtg, 3rd DRtg
Heat: 2nd ORtg, 9th DRtg
Heat: 8th ORtg, 4th DRtg
Mavs: 8th ORtg, 8th DRtg
LAL: 11th ORtg, 4th DRtg
LAL: 3rd ORtg, 6th DRtg
Celtics: 10th ORtg, 1st DRtg
Spurs: 5th ORtg, 2nd DRtg
Heat: 7th ORtg, 9th DRtg
Spurs: 8th ORtg, 1st DRtg
Pistons: 18th ORtg, 2nd DRtg
Spurs: 7th ORtg, 3rd DRtg
LAL: 2nd ORtg, 7th DRtg
LAL: 2nd ORtg, 21st DRtg
LAL: 5th ORtg, 1st DRtg


I always thought that "defense wins championships", but recently I've kinda eased off that. I will concede that it's probably a tad more crucial, but the value of a great offense can't be understated either.

I do think, again, the truest answer to this is that barring rare exceptions (Pistons, that anomaly 2001 Lakers team) it really takes both. If defense is more important, it's only by a smaller margin.