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RateSports
07-05-2014, 03:45 PM
There is a LOT of smoke to this. Below is just some of what can easily be dug up by searching through Twitter.


@sheridanhoops: It will all go down in Vegas later this week. My source says 75 percent chance he returns to #Cavs: https://t.co/ATe80h8AXH



@MySportsLegion: The Cavs are also shopping Dion Waiters in efforts to clear cap space to sign LeBron and "another" max contract. (via @Probballdraft)


@RuiterWrongFAN: The LeBron/Dru Joyce story that @Josh_Tep tweeted about a couple days ago; have heard it 3 times in last 12 hours from different people


@RuiterWrongFAN: Lots of smoke concerning LeBron & #Cavs right now; you know what they say - where there's smoke there's fire; next week will be interesting


@Josh_Tep : from people close to Dru Joyce II, LeBron's old coach. LeBron also texted Joyce II a few days ago: "My heart never left those fans."


Having said all of that, I don't trust the Josh_Tep kid for two seconds. But, I am and have always been of the belief, that he will return to Cleveland this year.. with Kevin Love by his side.

goingfor28
07-05-2014, 03:47 PM
Would be interesting. I'd imagine the hate for him would lessen some.
He, kyrie, love, wiggins would be a better group than anything miami can realistically put together imo

Hotone1401
07-05-2014, 03:54 PM
I think it would make for an amazing story if he did return. In the eyes of the public it would add a lot to his legacy if he could bring a championship to that franchise IMO. I really don't think there would be anybody that could hate on that move. Sure, they'll still talk about things that went on in Miami but they would have to respect a decision returning home.

Nikeman
07-05-2014, 03:55 PM
Love has said time and time again he wouldn't play in CLE, not sure if that changes with LeBron.

Secondly if Love does commit, no way the Cavs get Love without giving up Wiggins.

Still, Kyrie/LeBron/Love is the best Big 3 in the NBA for the next 5-6 years.

J4KOP99
07-05-2014, 03:55 PM
Dan Gilbert doesn't deserve it.

rockets-fan
07-05-2014, 03:58 PM
This is probably the only move he could make without looking like a douche, other than staying in Miami. So yea I think he's 50/50 on Cleveland or Miami, I don't think any other team is even in his radar

thephoenixson28
07-05-2014, 03:58 PM
Love has said time and time again he wouldn't play in CLE, not sure if that changes with LeBron.

Secondly if Love does commit, no way the Cavs get Love without giving up Wiggins.

Still, Kyrie/LeBron/Love is the best Big 3 in the NBA for the next 5-6 years.

There were reports that Love would sign long term if LeBron signed with Cleveland.

hugepatsfan
07-05-2014, 03:59 PM
I don't see how they're gonna trade for Love without giving up Wiggins.

Thank God they didn't take Noel last year. Irving/Wiggins/Lebron/Thompson/Noel is just downright unstoppable of Wiggins and Noel play to their potential.

Nikeman
07-05-2014, 04:00 PM
I think it would make for an amazing story if he did return. In the eyes of the public it would add a lot to his legacy if he could bring a championship to that franchise IMO. I really don't think there would be anybody that could hate on that move. Sure, they'll still talk about things that went on in Miami but they would have to respect a decision returning home.

The true Miami fans would be pissed. Not because LeBron left, but because he left in such a fashion that screws Miami over.

If he told Riley from Day 1 he was leaving, I say, thanks for 4 years and 2 titles, good luck wherever you go LeBron. He screws Miami over in the sense he made Wade/Bosh/Haslem opt out, and also stopped Miami for going other talent to replace him.

BranWingss
07-05-2014, 04:02 PM
MSL is a joke.

Nikeman
07-05-2014, 04:04 PM
Probasketballdraft @Probballdraft
Follow
Same exec feels it's a Miami-Cleveland battle & LeBron is waiting for a team to make a splash.

sager729
07-05-2014, 04:04 PM
Is laugh my *** of if Bosh went to Houston and LeBron went to Cleveland just to leave Wade hanging after he just opted out of that big deal.

basketfan4life
07-05-2014, 04:06 PM
The true Miami fans would be pissed. Not because LeBron left, but because he left in such a fashion that screws Miami over.

If he told Riley from Day 1 he was leaving, I say, thanks for 4 years and 2 titles, good luck wherever you go LeBron. He screws Miami over in the sense he made Wade/Bosh/Haslem opt out, and also stopped Miami for going other talent to replace him.

That is what lbj is known for. Screwing when leaving.

hugepatsfan
07-05-2014, 04:09 PM
The true Miami fans would be pissed. Not because LeBron left, but because he left in such a fashion that screws Miami over.

If he told Riley from Day 1 he was leaving, I say, thanks for 4 years and 2 titles, good luck wherever you go LeBron. He screws Miami over in the sense he made Wade/Bosh/Haslem opt out, and also stopped Miami for going other talent to replace him.

That's exactly what he did to CLE and none of you had any problem with it back then. :laugh2: And he probably left them more screwed because he pushed them into trading for guys like Jamison so even after he left they had no cap room. He's at least leaving you guys with flexibility under the cap.

cssdmark
07-05-2014, 04:13 PM
Maybe Lebrons wife did spill the beans early. She said there was a countdown Re: going back to Akron.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
07-05-2014, 04:16 PM
Is laugh my *** of if Bosh went to Houston and LeBron went to Cleveland just to leave Wade hanging after he just opted out of that big deal.

lmfao

Hotone1401
07-05-2014, 04:19 PM
The true Miami fans would be pissed. Not because LeBron left, but because he left in such a fashion that screws Miami over.

If he told Riley from Day 1 he was leaving, I say, thanks for 4 years and 2 titles, good luck wherever you go LeBron. He screws Miami over in the sense he made Wade/Bosh/Haslem opt out, and also stopped Miami for going other talent to replace him.

Well he didn't exactly make them opt out. That was something they decided to do to convince him to stay. At this point, I really do believe going back to Cleveland would not only he better for his legacy but also there seems to be much more upside for Lebron there to win.

goingfor28
07-05-2014, 04:20 PM
Is laugh my *** of if Bosh went to Houston and LeBron went to Cleveland just to leave Wade hanging after he just opted out of that big deal.
Lmao

Dade County
07-05-2014, 04:21 PM
The true Miami fans would be pissed. Not because LeBron left, but because he left in such a fashion that screws Miami over.

If he told Riley from Day 1 he was leaving, I say, thanks for 4 years and 2 titles, good luck wherever you go LeBron. He screws Miami over in the sense he made Wade/Bosh/Haslem opt out, and also stopped Miami for going other talent to replace him.

This is why you need to clam down and don't take any report you see seriously.

You should be focusing on if Pat can pull of another big heist; I feel it coming. Get ready for the hate.

beasted86
07-05-2014, 04:24 PM
That is what lbj is known for. Screwing when leaving.

4 years ago the Cavs didn't really have cap to make big splashes and just weren't an attractive destination because there was no existing talent without LeBron.

HEAT have $55M in cap space and could have used it to lock up Lowry, Wade, Bosh, and Gortat. LeBron is great, but I'd be happy replacing him with those two if he left.

I'm still highly confident he's resigning. But if he left now (as in 5 days after the start of free agency and not telling Riley) he really is a coward. Not because he backed away from a contending team, but that he was afraid of what Miami could have put together, and potentially having to go through that highly formidable opponent, and a likely super motivated Wade and Bosh on the opposing side of the court.

But I'm pretty sure he's returning. You don't say "we need to improve" a team you're not returning to.

Nikeman
07-05-2014, 04:26 PM
Well he didn't exactly make them opt out. That was something they decided to do to convince him to stay. At this point, I really do believe going back to Cleveland would not only he better for his legacy but also there seems to be much more upside for Lebron there to win.

While I do believe that returning to Cleveland is the ONLY place LeBron could go without hurting his legacy, any NBA fan would see that LeBron only returned to Cleveland because they become title contenders with him, he's not signing there because of home-town love, but thats how it will be portrayed.

Any NBA fan knows Cleveland is the most dysfunctional organization in the NBA and that they were gifted three number 1 picks in 4 seasons netting them Kyrie, and Wiggins who could possibly net them Love. LeBron is going to claim the love to Cleveland for his return but it will be the fact that Cleveland will have the best big 3 in the NBA for years.

He gave up on Cleveland after 7 years because they were such an inept front office, and now if he gives up on Miami, I still think former NBA legends and analysts will call him a ring chaser.

If he had so much love for Cleveland, he'd sign with them on the 1st day of free agency, before they go out and get Kevin Love, not after.

hugepatsfan
07-05-2014, 04:27 PM
4 years ago the Cavs didn't really have cap to make big splashes and just weren't an attractive destination because there was no existing talent without LeBron.

HEAT have $55M in cap space and could have used it to lock up Lowry, Wade, Bosh, and Gortat. LeBron is great, but I'd be happy replacing him with those two if he left.

I'm still highly confident he's resigning. But if he left now (as in 5 days after the start of free agency and not telling Riley) he really is a coward. Not because he backed away from a contending team, but that he was afraid of what Miami could have put together, and potentially having to go through that highly formidable opponent, and a likely super motivated Wade and Bosh on the opposing side of the court.

They had no cap flexibility because of the short term, win now moves he pressured them into making by not committing to them. You guys were able to put together the plan for the Big 3 because Wade went along with it and allowed Riley to waste a couple years of his prime. Lebron did no such thing for CLE.

Chronz
07-05-2014, 04:28 PM
Highly motivated Wade is suppose to be scary? LMFAO

*Superman*
07-05-2014, 04:29 PM
Is laugh my *** of if Bosh went to Houston and LeBron went to Cleveland just to leave Wade hanging after he just opted out of that big deal.

:laugh2:

Nikeman
07-05-2014, 04:29 PM
Ethan J. Skolnick @EthanJSkolnick 13m
Standing behind what I've reported on Bosh: wants to b in MIA, ideally for 5 yrs, & while he was aiming for near 90, he wants 2 help team.

One of the better Miami reporters.

FlashBolt
07-05-2014, 04:30 PM
As a LeBron fan, I would respect this move more than him going to another team other than Miami. It makes a lot of sense for him. He's always loved Cleveland but he just needed some help to win - now he's got the opportunity to put 1+1 together and create a legendary tale. If I'm Cleveland, I would take this seriously. Meaning, Gilbert has to become more of a leader to this team and publicly endorse James return. Front office has to get professional from this point on. Cleveland and LeBron both have an amazing opportunity here. Maybe ship Varejao, Waiters, and Wiggins for Love? Or Benett, Waiters, Wiggins, and Thompson?

Chronz
07-05-2014, 04:33 PM
They had no cap flexibility because of the short term, win now moves he pressured them into making by not committing to them. You guys were able to put together the plan for the Big 3 because Wade went along with it and allowed Riley to waste a couple years of his prime. Lebron did no such thing for CLE.
Can you elaborate on this piece? Im struggling to connect the dots you are making.

Nikeman
07-05-2014, 04:35 PM
As a LeBron fan, I would respect this move more than him going to another team other than Miami. It makes a lot of sense for him. He's always loved Cleveland but he just needed some help to win - now he's got the opportunity to put 1+1 together and create a legendary tale. If I'm Cleveland, I would take this seriously. Meaning, Gilbert has to become more of a leader to this team and publicly endorse James return. Front office has to get professional from this point on. Cleveland and LeBron both have an amazing opportunity here. Maybe ship Varejao, Waiters, and Wiggins for Love? Or Benett, Waiters, Wiggins, and Thompson?

If they do that, they have literally no depth on that team.

Wiggins alone is the best that Minnesota can get for Love, you do not need to give Waiters and Thompson as well. That is complete rape by Minnesota.

But I do agree with you, Dan Gilbert needs to swallow his pride and apologize for his childish antics after LeBron left. But in Feb 2014, he said he doesnt regret his "Letter".

Lets see how it plays out

goingfor28
07-05-2014, 04:36 PM
While I do believe that returning to Cleveland is the ONLY place LeBron could go without hurting his legacy, any NBA fan would see that LeBron only returned to Cleveland because they become title contenders with him, he's not signing there because of home-town love, but thats how it will be portrayed.

Any NBA fan knows Cleveland is the most dysfunctional organization in the NBA and that they were gifted three number 1 picks in 4 seasons netting them Kyrie, and Wiggins who could possibly net them Love. LeBron is going to claim the love to Cleveland for his return but it will be the fact that Cleveland will have the best big 3 in the NBA for years.

He gave up on Cleveland after 7 years because they were such an inept front office, and now if he gives up on Miami, I still think former NBA legends and analysts will call him a ring chaser.

If he had so much love for Cleveland, he'd sign with them on the 1st day of free agency, before they go out and get Kevin Love, not after.
Ok and if he had so much love for miami he would've re signed there on day 1, not waited for Riley to sign 11 new all stars for him to play with

FlashBolt
07-05-2014, 04:38 PM
I think Cleveland is a no-brainer for James.

1) His hometown.
2) He'll be more liked.
3) Cleveland fans are 100x better than Miami. I am sorry but 10 Cleveland fans will make more noise than 100 Heat fans.
4) Cleveland has a better team than Miami. Even without love, a roster of James, Kyrie, Tristan, Varejao, Jack, Waiters, and Wiggins is better than Wade, Cole, Bosh, and James.
5) Kyrie Irving is here to stay. Dude has at least 8 years left in his prime and the scary part is the fact that they can technically also get Love. Basically, you have two three point shooting champs who are also elite at their position(s). The defense on this team is a bit shaky, however, it is too good offensively to not consider.


The only issue with Cleveland is their future. Haywood, Jarrett, and Bennett are highly overpaid. In 2015-2016, Haywood+Jack will take in 17 million and they are nothing but bench players. Kyrie takes in 18 million? Varejao can be signed for much less - he loves LeBron and wouldn't mind taking less. Thompson might demand more in 2015-2016. James can get the max but Love might have to take a hit financially. Don't see this working if all three are getting the max. Of course, they can just keep Wiggins but I don't see the point of him if you're getting LeBron. Trade him ASAP and get your money's worth.

Chronz
07-05-2014, 04:39 PM
lol. why are you kids talking about love for a team/front office?

Nikeman
07-05-2014, 04:41 PM
Ok and if he had so much love for miami he would've re signed there on day 1, not waited for Riley to sign 11 new all stars for him to play with

You are right, he's shown he's an unloyal ****** to me. If he was loyal to the team that he won two titles with, and went to four straight NBA finals with, he would have re-signed on Day 1, along with Wade and Bosh at reduced terms, and been out there recruiting with Pat Riley.

Not leaving Pat Riley out there with the almost impossible task of recruiting quality talent, at a DISCOUNT, with the promise of winning, while reading reports of the uncertainty of our Big 3 breaking up

So yes, whether or not LeBron comes back, I could care less at this point. If he leaves us, I hope Bosh goes to Houston, and I hope we keep our 55 mill in cap space open and begin a rebuild.

WITZ
07-05-2014, 04:44 PM
Probably saw his teams big offseason acquisition throw up a 3-15 dud and had to rethink the stuation :laugh2:

FlashBolt
07-05-2014, 04:45 PM
If they do that, they have literally no depth on that team.

Wiggins alone is the best that Minnesota can get for Love, you do not need to give Waiters and Thompson as well. That is complete rape by Minnesota.

But I do agree with you, Dan Gilbert needs to swallow his pride and apologize for his childish antics after LeBron left. But in Feb 2014, he said he doesnt regret his "Letter".

Lets see how it plays out

They would have depth. Waiters+Wiggins+Benett is a must for Cleveland. 1) You get rid of Waiters - who has had conflicts with not being the superstar. 2) Wiggins is useless in Cleveland if James is there. He's an NBA starter type player. If James is there, no way he has the room to grow. 3) Cleveland should sneak Benett into this. He's probably a bust anyways and with Love there, he also serves no purpose.

As for depth, I can pretty much say that Allen is going to stick with LeBron. I would not be surprised if James can get 2-3 Heat players to come with him to Cleveland and take a cut. Allen, James Jones, and Birdman comes to mind.

The reason why no one is going to take a huge pay cut to play for Miami compared to 2010 is this:

Wade/Bosh are useless is being seen by many. They know teams have caught up to Miami in terms of being a superteam. No way I would not consider Clippers, OKC, or GSW before I consider Miami. This was not the case in 2010. If you wanted to win, you come to Miami and you have the best chance. 2014, well, you have an aged up Wade with Bosh who didn't play like he's worth $10 million and hasn't improved a single bit since coming to Miami. As good as James is, I just don't see a player out there who would hands down choose Miami.

#3_
07-05-2014, 04:46 PM
Until something is confirmed all these reports are rumors..

bucketss
07-05-2014, 04:49 PM
The true Miami fans would be pissed. Not because LeBron left, but because he left in such a fashion that screws Miami over.

If he told Riley from Day 1 he was leaving, I say, thanks for 4 years and 2 titles, good luck wherever you go LeBron. He screws Miami over in the sense he made Wade/Bosh/Haslem opt out, and also stopped Miami for going other talent to replace him.

he screwed the cavs over even more but you heat fans always make excuses for him, so dont expect any sympathy lol but it would funny as hell if he left.

Nikeman
07-05-2014, 04:50 PM
They would have depth. Waiters+Wiggins+Benett is a must for Cleveland. 1) You get rid of Waiters - who has had conflicts with not being the superstar. 2) Wiggins is useless in Cleveland if James is there. He's an NBA starter type player. If James is there, no way he has the room to grow. 3) Cleveland should sneak Benett into this. He's probably a bust anyways and with Love there, he also serves no purpose.

As for depth, I can pretty much say that Allen is going to stick with LeBron. I would not be surprised if James can get 2-3 Heat players to come with him to Cleveland and take a cut. Allen, James Jones, and Birdman comes to mind.

The reason why no one is going to take a huge pay cut to play for Miami compared to 2010 is this:

Wade/Bosh are useless is being seen by many. They know teams have caught up to Miami in terms of being a superteam. No way I would not consider Clippers, OKC, or GSW before I consider Miami. This was not the case in 2010. If you wanted to win, you come to Miami and you have the best chance. 2014, well, you have an aged up Wade with Bosh who didn't play like he's worth $10 million and hasn't improved a single bit since coming to Miami. As good as James is, I just don't see a player out there who would hands down choose Miami.

Usually I tend to agree with your posts, but I completely disagree.

And by the way, your original trade had Varejao and Tristan Thompson along with Wiggins and Waitors in it for love.

Secondly, Miami just looked old and broken down vs San Antonio. You want to add Allen 38, Birdman 36, and James Jones- who didn't even play as Cleveland's depth??

That would result in the same result as this years NBA finals maybe a little better for Cleveland.

Red_Pill
07-05-2014, 04:52 PM
If they do that, they have literally no depth on that team.

Wiggins alone is the best that Minnesota can get for Love, you do not need to give Waiters and Thompson as well. That is complete rape by Minnesota.

But I do agree with you, Dan Gilbert needs to swallow his pride and apologize for his childish antics after LeBron left. But in Feb 2014, he said he doesnt regret his "Letter".

Lets see how it plays out

We'd gladly take just Wiggins for Love. Helps both teams. We get four years of Wiggins, which could potentially make Minnesota basketball relevant again, and Cleavland gets a top 2 PF who is just entering his prime.

Chronz
07-05-2014, 04:53 PM
Usually I tend to agree with your posts, but I completely disagree.

And by the way, your original trade had Varejao and Tristan Thompson along with Wiggins and Waitors in it for love.

Secondly, Miami just looked old and broken down vs San Antonio. You want to add Allen 38, Birdman 36, and James Jones- who didn't even play as Cleveland's depth??

That would result in the same result as this years NBA finals maybe a little better for Cleveland.

Nah, Cleveland would provide more talent than Miami could IMO. Especially with said additions, people need to get caught up on what kind of influence Wade has. He and Bron were never great fits, but that didn't matter when he was athletic. Hes not anymore.

Nikeman
07-05-2014, 04:53 PM
Also, while Kevin Love is a very good player, I don't get the hype surrounding the dude.

A PF, who is a career 45% shooter, shoots 6 three's a game, doesn't have a high quality post game, and seems to be injury prone, and a terrible defender.

Seems to be a player who has put up stats as the result of being on a bad team.

FlashBolt
07-05-2014, 04:54 PM
You are right, he's shown he's an unloyal ****** to me. If he was loyal to the team that he won two titles with, and went to four straight NBA finals with, he would have re-signed on Day 1, along with Wade and Bosh at reduced terms, and been out there recruiting with Pat Riley.

Not leaving Pat Riley out there with the almost impossible task of recruiting quality talent, at a DISCOUNT, with the promise of winning, while reading reports of the uncertainty of our Big 3 breaking up

So yes, whether or not LeBron comes back, I could care less at this point. If he leaves us, I hope Bosh goes to Houston, and I hope we keep our 55 mill in cap space open and begin a rebuild.

Since they are friends, I believe Bron doesn't think Bosh/Wade are worth that money while Bosh/Wade's ego clearly makes them think otherwise. No way Miami can get legitimate help if James is taking the max along with Bosh taking $18 million per year with Wade probably not going lower than $15 million. Judging by their performance last year, Bosh should be taking $13 with Wade taking $12. Dude got paid $6 million sitting on the bench - why does he deserve $15 million if he's going to be out 30% of the season (4.5 million)? Subtract that from his pay and he should take around $12 million. Bosh doesn't like to bang? Well, don't bang. Take a paycut so Miami can get someone who is willing to battle it out on the paint - something you can't do but Chris Andersen who is 35? can do? I don't see why James shouldn't have a problem with this. He gets paid the same as Chris Bosh but puts on a performance that you would expects he gets paid $40 million if judged by performance:salary ratio. Why should James take a paycut while Wade who doesn't even play for 30% of the season, only takes a small paycut? Doesn't make sense to me. James is the superstar of this team while Bosh/Wade are just starters. They are past their prime and you can see by how Wade got destroyed by Green/Manu and Bosh got schooled by Duncan two years in a row. Build around James and just let Wade/Bosh go. If you want to win - that is. You will never sniff a ring with Wade/Bosh getting paid top dollar for above average impact.

scissors
07-05-2014, 04:55 PM
The true Miami fans would be pissed. Not because LeBron left, but because he left in such a fashion that screws Miami over.

If he told Riley from Day 1 he was leaving, I say, thanks for 4 years and 2 titles, good luck wherever you go LeBron. He screws Miami over in the sense he made Wade/Bosh/Haslem opt out, and also stopped Miami for going other talent to replace him.

Are you crazy? He would have screwed over Bosh, Haslem and Wade out of lots of money. But he would have done MIA a huge favor by fooling those three. You really want MIA to pay Wade, Haslem and Bosh 45+ mil each of the next two years?

Nikeman
07-05-2014, 04:55 PM
We'd gladly take just Wiggins for Love. Helps both teams. We get four years of Wiggins, which could potentially make Minnesota basketball relevant again, and Cleavland gets a top 2 PF who is just entering his prime.

You consider Love a top 2 PF?

I personally take Blake, Lamarcus, and Anthony Davis over Love, maybe even Chris Bosh.

Love has an inefficient game, and puts up stats because he gets tons of looks on a bad team.

ThuglifeJ
07-05-2014, 04:56 PM
At this point. I'm not reading or getting emotionally involved with any rumor or anything. Just want to see what actually happens and gets verbally agreed upon/signed.

beasted86
07-05-2014, 04:57 PM
They had no cap flexibility because of the short term, win now moves he pressured them into making by not committing to them. You guys were able to put together the plan for the Big 3 because Wade went along with it and allowed Riley to waste a couple years of his prime. Lebron did no such thing for CLE.

While I hear what you're saying, look at the difference between the two teams and how they are operated. One GM makes moves to make LeBron happy, but really had no plan B because like I said, they had overpaid Jamison and other mediocre players eating cap space. Riley has an essential clean slate to start over if he wanted to.

I truly believe even if LeBron went to Cleveland, they're simply not ready to win a championship. I could easily see a number of veteran teams putting the lock on some of their young guys when it comes to the playoffs and totally taking them off their game. Shaken and stirred going ghost because they don't have any NBA playoff experience and neither does their coach. So LeBron would not want to see anything that looks like that type of tested team I posted above, or the Bulls or Pacers. He'd need any little edge he could get, and a departure this late into free agency would be it.

Though like I said I'm pretty certain he's coming back. If say 90% Miami, 10% Cleveland, 0% all others.

Nikeman
07-05-2014, 04:58 PM
Since they are friends, I believe Bron doesn't think Bosh/Wade are worth that money while Bosh/Wade's ego clearly makes them think otherwise. No way Miami can get legitimate help if James is taking the max along with Bosh taking $18 million per year with Wade probably not going lower than $15 million. Judging by their performance last year, Bosh should be taking $13 with Wade taking $12. Dude got paid $6 million sitting on the bench - why does he deserve $15 million if he's going to be out 30% of the season (4.5 million)? Subtract that from his pay and he should take around $12 million. Bosh doesn't like to bang? Well, don't bang. Take a paycut so Miami can get someone who is willing to battle it out on the paint - something you can't do but Chris Andersen who is 35? can do? I don't see why James shouldn't have a problem with this. He gets paid the same as Chris Bosh but puts on a performance that you would expects he gets paid $40 million if judged by performance:salary ratio. Why should James take a paycut while Wade who doesn't even play for 30% of the season, only takes a small paycut? Doesn't make sense to me. James is the superstar of this team while Bosh/Wade are just starters. They are past their prime and you can see by how Wade got destroyed by Green/Manu and Bosh got schooled by Duncan two years in a row. Build around James and just let Wade/Bosh go. If you want to win - that is. You will never sniff a ring with Wade/Bosh getting paid top dollar for above average impact.

Again disagree with you, I'll agree with Wade, but Bosh is certainly a very capable player, and while you don't think so, NBA GM's and teams still do.

I'll let this prove my point:

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA 4h
Chris Bosh's reps have made recent calls on market to reconfirm that max slots would be available to him, sources tell Yahoo. Answers: Yes.


Ethan J. Skolnick @EthanJSkolnick 3h
The one thing that nobody's paying attention to: the league thinks Bosh is a max player. So maybe Heat fans should value him more.

Darc Mind
07-05-2014, 05:08 PM
Ethan J. Skolnick @EthanJSkolnick 3h
The one thing that nobody's paying attention to: the league thinks Bosh is a max player. So maybe Heat fans should value him more.

Bosh is not a max player on a team with Wade and Lebron. But put him on any garbage team, and he absolutely is.

hugepatsfan
07-05-2014, 05:13 PM
Can you elaborate on this piece? Im struggling to connect the dots you are making.

In order to set up the Big 3 MIA had to spend a couple of off seasons focusing on clearing cap. In doing so, they pretty much threw away 2 years of Wade's prime. They could have fielded better teams during those seasons, but chose not to in hopes of putting together something bigger down the line. The one move they tried to make was landing Odom the offseason before the Big 3 came together. But if you remember, it didn't happen because they were trying to land him on a below market deal that would have left their bigger plans for the next offseason in tact. Despite having prime years wasted, Wade didn't apply extra pressure on the organization to "win now." He didn't make them feel like they were in danger of losing him because of what they were doing.

Lebron, on the other hand, would never give any sort of commitment to the Cavaliers franchise. He always made it perfectly clear that he was keeping his options open and the only thing that would convince him to stay was winning. Remember how he got mad when they didn't trade for Jason Kidd? Remember the reports of how hard he pushed for them to make the Jamison trade? The Cavs never were able to take a long range approach to building their roster because Lebron always made them feel like if they didn't get short term results he was out the door. They also faced the issue of CLE not being a place players generally want to play but Lebron made that issue even more difficult with his indifference to staying. Remember when Ariza and Artest met with them and were considering MLE offers but wouldn't take them because they didn't want to be stuck in CLE with no Lebron. They couldn't build a team Lebron would want to stay with unless they had assurance that Lebron would stay. It was an impossible situation.

Nikeman
07-05-2014, 05:13 PM
Ethan J. Skolnick @EthanJSkolnick 3h
The one thing that nobody's paying attention to: the league thinks Bosh is a max player. So maybe Heat fans should value him more.

Bosh is not a max player on a team with Wade and Lebron. But put him on any garbage team, and he absolutely is.

Yeah, exactly why Houston who was a top 4 team in the West last season which is an accomplishment in itself, has two super stars in Dwight and Harden, is clearing room to offer Bosh a max or close to it.

Yup, Houston is a garbage team.

Nikeman
07-05-2014, 05:15 PM
In order to set up the Big 3 MIA had to spend a couple of off seasons focusing on clearing cap. In doing so, they pretty much threw away 2 years of Wade's prime. They could have fielded better teams during those seasons, but chose not to in hopes of putting together something bigger down the line. The one move they tried to make was landing Odom the offseason before the Big 3 came together. But if you remember, it didn't happen because they were trying to land him on a below market deal that would have left their bigger plans for the next offseason in tact. Despite having prime years wasted, Wade didn't apply extra pressure on the organization to "win now." He didn't make them feel like they were in danger of losing him because of what they were doing.

Lebron, on the other hand, would never give any sort of commitment to the Cavaliers franchise. He always made it perfectly clear that he was keeping his options open and the only thing that would convince him to stay was winning. Remember how he got mad when they didn't trade for Jason Kidd? Remember the reports of how hard he pushed for them to make the Jamison trade? The Cavs never were able to take a long range approach to building their roster because Lebron always made them feel like if they didn't get short term results he was out the door. They also faced the issue of CLE not being a place players generally want to play but Lebron made that issue even more difficult with his indifference to staying. Remember when Ariza and Artest met with them and were considering MLE offers but wouldn't take them because they didn't want to be stuck in CLE with no Lebron. They couldn't build a team Lebron would want to stay with unless they had assurance that Lebron would stay. It was an impossible situation.

Exactly the reason Pat Riley will have trouble adding talent this off-season. Nobody will come to Miami when James wants a 1 year deal to do this again next season.

FlashBolt
07-05-2014, 05:15 PM
Usually I tend to agree with your posts, but I completely disagree.

And by the way, your original trade had Varejao and Tristan Thompson along with Wiggins and Waitors in it for love.

Secondly, Miami just looked old and broken down vs San Antonio. You want to add Allen 38, Birdman 36, and James Jones- who didn't even play as Cleveland's depth??

That would result in the same result as this years NBA finals maybe a little better for Cleveland.

That was just a proposal but I can see this working out in multiple ways. No way Minnesota gets a better offer for Love than Wiggins, Thompson, and despite Bennett having an off year, it might be too soon to give him up.
Not saying they would be instant contenders considering even with love, they never were but look at it this way.
Rubio
Thompson
Pek
Wiggins
Brewer/Kevin Martin

That's a solid line-up and given two or three years, would surely make the playoffs with Wiggins cracking into the top 10?
As for Allen, Jones, Andersen, those players know James style of play. They fit right in and Allen/Jones would forever be useful since they are shooters. Allen, Jones, Irving, Love? You have four three point shooting champions on the court at the same time with James? Never did Miami have such lethal shooting all at once. I don't see why those players wouldn't be a great signing if they were snagged at a good price. Andersen hustles and could pour in 15-20 minutes along with Varejao putting in 28-33 minutes? I just don't see how Miami has a better roster than Cleveland does. Irving/Wiggins/Thompson/Varejao/Waiters/Jack are getting paid what Bosh/Wade get paid together.. I don't see how that even compares let alone Love+Irving over Wade+Bosh.


Nah, Cleveland would provide more talent than Miami could IMO. Especially with said additions, people need to get caught up on what kind of influence Wade has. He and Bron were never great fits, but that didn't matter when he was athletic. Hes not anymore.

Yeah. No doubt Wade's athleticism allowed for him and James to co-exist. Wade doesn't really provide much support for James. He tries to show signs of Flash but ends up turning the ball over or making the same ridiculous fadeaway jumpshot that falls 1/3rd of the time. Wade's greatest asset was driving to the paint and being acrobatic. He rarely gets to the paint without help these days.

Also, while Kevin Love is a very good player, I don't get the hype surrounding the dude.

A PF, who is a career 45% shooter, shoots 6 three's a game, doesn't have a high quality post game, and seems to be injury prone, and a terrible defender.

Seems to be a player who has put up stats as the result of being on a bad team.

1) He's shooting 60% from 0-3 feet and it gets lower from there. But, this can be attributed to the fact that he doesn't have the required help and often times has to force some bad shots. With James/Irving, his PPG would go down but expect him to have some elite level efficiency. In Minnesota, who could score except Martin? Brewer put up points but he was shaky at times. Rubio - for God's sake.. He couldn't score on a nerf hoop. Btw, Bosh's FG% would be just around Love's area if he took as many threes as Love does.
2) 7 threes a game at 38%? That is amazing for a PF. Bosh takes 3 a game and shoots at 32%. James loves playing with three point spacers because he can freely destroy the paint. What's that? What if James doesn't go to the paint and misses a jumper? Love can rebound. He can space the floor, rebound, and is a better defender than Bosh considering Bosh gets pushed around like a twig.
3) Love is only 25, he can rebound, he can handle the big bodies like Marc Gasol, he can pass, he can shoot free throws, probably the best big man spacer in the game. I don't see how he's a bad choice. James has been playing with Bosh - no reason to believe why James and Love wouldn't be far superior. There is zero chance Bosh makes it to the playoffs on the Western Conference with his Raptors squad.. Zero.

Chronz
07-05-2014, 05:16 PM
Also, while Kevin Love is a very good player, I don't get the hype surrounding the dude.

A PF, who is a career 45% shooter, shoots 6 three's a game, doesn't have a high quality post game, and seems to be injury prone, and a terrible defender.

Seems to be a player who has put up stats as the result of being on a bad team.

FG% is irrelevant compared to overall efficiency. His post game is actually quite good now. But he is a terrible defender.

WITZ
07-05-2014, 05:18 PM
In order to set up the Big 3 MIA had to spend a couple of off seasons focusing on clearing cap. In doing so, they pretty much threw away 2 years of Wade's prime. They could have fielded better teams during those seasons, but chose not to in hopes of putting together something bigger down the line. The one move they tried to make was landing Odom the offseason before the Big 3 came together. But if you remember, it didn't happen because they were trying to land him on a below market deal that would have left their bigger plans for the next offseason in tact. Despite having prime years wasted, Wade didn't apply extra pressure on the organization to "win now." He didn't make them feel like they were in danger of losing him because of what they were doing.

Lebron, on the other hand, would never give any sort of commitment to the Cavaliers franchise. He always made it perfectly clear that he was keeping his options open and the only thing that would convince him to stay was winning. Remember how he got mad when they didn't trade for Jason Kidd? Remember the reports of how hard he pushed for them to make the Jamison trade? The Cavs never were able to take a long range approach to building their roster because Lebron always made them feel like if they didn't get short term results he was out the door. They also faced the issue of CLE not being a place players generally want to play but Lebron made that issue even more difficult with his indifference to staying. Remember when Ariza and Artest met with them and were considering MLE offers but wouldn't take them because they didn't want to be stuck in CLE with no Lebron. They couldn't build a team Lebron would want to stay with unless they had assurance that Lebron would stay. It was an impossible situation.

Almost certain that was Kobe, but all else is spot on. For someone who's not I assume is not a cavs fan your real knowledgeable on how the situation went down. Good stuff man :up:

FlashBolt
07-05-2014, 05:21 PM
Again disagree with you, I'll agree with Wade, but Bosh is certainly a very capable player, and while you don't think so, NBA GM's and teams still do.

I'll let this prove my point:

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA 4h
Chris Bosh's reps have made recent calls on market to reconfirm that max slots would be available to him, sources tell Yahoo. Answers: Yes.


Ethan J. Skolnick @EthanJSkolnick 3h
The one thing that nobody's paying attention to: the league thinks Bosh is a max player. So maybe Heat fans should value him more.

But this proves nothing. How much did Meek just get paid? How much is Amare getting paid? It's one thing to get paid but it is another when you account for the fact that Bosh is not worth 1/3rd of Miami's salary cap. For Christ's sake, compare James to Bosh's salary. Do you think they are equal in terms of production? NO! So why should James get paid the same as Bosh when Bosh gets outperformed tremendously by a 38 year old Duncan who is taking $10 million per year along with Dirk? Doesn't make sense - seriously. I can see that Bosh can certainly get more based on if he was on a team that desperately needed his services. I have no doubt Bosh can put up 20/10. But in those four years with Miami, I have no reason to believe he should be paid that high amount while not being able to outperform Duncan, West, Hibbert, Al Jefferson, and if Brook Lopez played, he would have destroyed Bosh too. Like I said, it is one thing to get paid. It is another when you don't play accordingly.

As for Wade, there is no disagreement there. He takes off 1/3rd of the season to rest up and then fails miserably at the Finals - the true purpose of resting. Wade got paid what? $17 million? Sits out 1/3rd of the season = Roughly 6 million, $11 million is his TRUE SALARY. Wade should take that into consideration. If he's taking breaks, why should he get paid in full? He's not doing anyone a favor because James will have to take the paycut and play Wade's part as well. In no way does that favor anyone except Wade. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Wade should be happy with $12-13 million. If they truly want to get the most money, they need to understand that they won't win. They can cry about James leaving and how unloyal he is when James leaves but the true loyalty lies with Wade/Bosh. They are the ones not sacrificing. James earned his money and deserves it.

Chronz
07-05-2014, 05:26 PM
In order to set up the Big 3 MIA had to spend a couple of off seasons focusing on clearing cap. In doing so, they pretty much threw away 2 years of Wade's prime. They could have fielded better teams during those seasons, but chose not to in hopes of putting together something bigger down the line. The one move they tried to make was landing Odom the offseason before the Big 3 came together. But if you remember, it didn't happen because they were trying to land him on a below market deal that would have left their bigger plans for the next offseason in tact. Despite having prime years wasted, Wade didn't apply extra pressure on the organization to "win now." He didn't make them feel like they were in danger of losing him because of what they were doing.
But thats not true, at least not what was reported. Wade was angry that they couldn't land several of the names they pursued (Odom, Boozer being the most publicized). And acquiring Odom would have prevented them from landing the Big-3. Its pure speculation what Wade's feelings were, needless to say he was given championship caliber cast already, Bron got no such treatment in Cleveland.


Lebron, on the other hand, would never give any sort of commitment to the Cavaliers franchise. He always made it perfectly clear that he was keeping his options open and the only thing that would convince him to stay was winning.
He gave them 7 years. They dont deserve much more of a commitment IMO.


Remember how he got mad when they didn't trade for Jason Kidd? Remember the reports of how hard he pushed for them to make the Jamison trade? The Cavs never were able to take a long range approach to building their roster because Lebron always made them feel like if they didn't get short term results he was out the door.
I remember them not making moves despite Bron's approval. I dont recall anything on Jamison, feel free to inform me on that one but Im not seeing the importance. They gave up NOTHING to add him. Cavs failed because of managerial negligence. They were the type of team that would trade a first round pick for a prospect, only to downgrade that prospect into a 2nd rounder, literally a few weeks later. Lets not pretend like Cleveland had any sort of vision. Bron wouldn't be the first to pressure his team into improving, and he wont be the last, the real difference maker is what the guy in charge does with his option.


They also faced the issue of CLE not being a place players generally want to play but Lebron made that issue even more difficult with his indifference to staying. Remember when Ariza and Artest met with them and were considering MLE offers but wouldn't take them because they didn't want to be stuck in CLE with no Lebron.
That was like after 6 years. Imagine that, you have to reup just to even have a chance to land the likes of Ariza, not even a signing but just the chance. Years before when Bron did extend his original deal, Cleveland wasn't even able to lure hometown products like Michael Redd away from small markets like Milwaukee (of all places). Bron had already given Cleveland several years more than Wade had in order to land a big 3.




They couldn't build a team Lebron would want to stay with unless they had assurance that Lebron would stay. It was an impossible situation.
It only became an impossible situation because of their prior failures. In a snapshot, Im sure that played a role, but looking at the bigger picture, you have to rewind much sooner than that to see their numerous blunders.

FlashBolt
07-05-2014, 05:26 PM
Bosh Playoff Numbers

http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/ae/f5/aef563d623a6b822b4add5aca18d5df1.png

Wade Playoff Numbers

http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/3e/20/3e20ce266eab0d6a12116a895acc6be6.png

These two expect to get paid $35 million together? The past three seasons have been horrible for Bosh while Wade the past two years was hobbled up. No reason for me to believe these two will outperform the future NBA stars. Give me Love/Kyrie over these two at this point.

Chronz
07-05-2014, 05:27 PM
Exactly the reason Pat Riley will have trouble adding talent this off-season. Nobody will come to Miami when James wants a 1 year deal to do this again next season.

James wants a 1 year deal? What has led you to believe this lie?

Aust
07-05-2014, 05:31 PM
Dan Gilbert doesn't deserve it.

Seriously, I would despise the Cavs if this happened.

Nikeman
07-05-2014, 05:31 PM
James wants a 1 year deal? What has led you to believe this lie?

Its been reported James would want a short term 1/2 year deal @ the max

Nikeman
07-05-2014, 05:34 PM
Reports are Melo is returning to the Knicks on a max deal.

If true, that means Cleveland or Miami, whichever team LeBron joins is favorites to win the East.

Melo on Chicago in my eyes would make them NBA title favorites if Rose is healthy.

SlimBoss
07-05-2014, 05:36 PM
Until something is confirmed all these reports are rumors..

ya don't say......

C_Mund
07-05-2014, 05:37 PM
The true Miami fans would be pissed. Not because LeBron left, but because he left in such a fashion that screws Miami over.

If he told Riley from Day 1 he was leaving, I say, thanks for 4 years and 2 titles, good luck wherever you go LeBron. He screws Miami over in the sense he made Wade/Bosh/Haslem opt out, and also stopped Miami for going other talent to replace him.


Um.... so it's okay for Miami to build a champion doing the exact things that would piss you off, but not okay to exit that way? How does Miami deserve any of these things? They took two franchise players via collusion and left two other teams in complete disarray. I'd say Miami fans should be pretty happy they had the last four years that they did, and not the same four years as Toronto or Cleveland.

nycericanguy
07-05-2014, 05:38 PM
Bosh Playoff Numbers

http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/ae/f5/aef563d623a6b822b4add5aca18d5df1.png

Wade Playoff Numbers

http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/3e/20/3e20ce266eab0d6a12116a895acc6be6.png

These two expect to get paid $35 million together? The past three seasons have been horrible for Bosh while Wade the past two years was hobbled up. No reason for me to believe these two will outperform the future NBA stars. Give me Love/Kyrie over these two at this point.

MIA fans are a bit spoiled... those are great numbers from your #2 and #3 guys... few, if any teams have two supporting players capable of putting up those numbers in the playoffs.

Wade averaged 18, 4 & 4 on 50% shooting to go along with 1.5spg and he gets treated like he's trash...

Oh how I would love that "trash" next to Melo in the playoffs instead of JR's 12ppg on 32% shooting.

yankeefan54
07-05-2014, 05:40 PM
MIA fans are a bit spoiled... those are great numbers from your #2 and #3 guys... few, if any teams have two supporting players capable of putting up those numbers in the playoffs.

Wade averaged 18, 4 & 4 on 50% shooting to go along with 1.5spg and he gets treated like he's trash...

Oh how I would love that "trash" next to Melo in the playoffs instead of JR's 12ppg on 32% shooting.

It's more about the fact that wades knees are shot.

Chronz
07-05-2014, 05:41 PM
MIA fans are a bit spoiled... those are great numbers from your #2 and #3 guys... few, if any teams have two supporting players capable of putting up those numbers in the playoffs.

Wade averaged 18, 4 & 4 on 50% shooting to go along with 1.5spg and he gets treated like he's trash...

Oh how I would love that "trash" next to Melo in the playoffs instead of JR's 12ppg on 32% shooting.

I would hate both on my Clippers. (Replacing current 2nd options that is)

Chronz
07-05-2014, 05:45 PM
Almost certain that was Kobe, but all else is spot on. For someone who's not I assume is not a cavs fan your real knowledgeable on how the situation went down. Good stuff man :up:

Kidd wanted to join Cleveland but the Cavs had nothing to offer them. Kobe got mad when his team refused to trade Andrew Bynum for him. He was mad when they couldn't land Jermaine Oneal either. Only Kobe eventually admitted he was wrong.

d00d
07-05-2014, 05:55 PM
he can live in peace with 2 rings, if he never wins another he is still good for life.

now return to the state you butt ****ed and retire there and restore your name and enjoy being the hero for the rest of your life.

I always think of my hometown after leaving there 24 years ago. Still miss it every single day of my life. If they had hated me for any reason, I would love a chance to make up with them.

d00d
07-05-2014, 05:57 PM
Reports are Melo is returning to the Knicks on a max deal.

If true, that means Cleveland or Miami, whichever team LeBron joins is favorites to win the East.

Melo on Chicago in my eyes would make them NBA title favorites if Rose is healthy.

no worries about chicago, Melo is all about the money

WITZ
07-05-2014, 05:58 PM
Kidd wanted to join Cleveland but the Cavs had nothing to offer them. Kobe got mad when his team refused to trade Andrew Bynum for him. He was mad when they couldn't land Jermaine Oneal either. Only Kobe eventually admitted he was wrong.

Completely don't even remember Kidd being in the discussion. For some reason I do remember us trying to acquire Mike Bibby though :laugh2:

Aust
07-05-2014, 05:58 PM
Lakers should try to nab Waiters if he's really being shopped. Don't know how that would work though.

XpLiCiTT
07-05-2014, 05:58 PM
MIA fans are a bit spoiled... those are great numbers from your #2 and #3 guys... few, if any teams have two supporting players capable of putting up those numbers in the playoffs.

Wade averaged 18, 4 & 4 on 50% shooting to go along with 1.5spg and he gets treated like he's trash...

Oh how I would love that "trash" next to Melo in the playoffs instead of JR's 12ppg on 32% shooting.

I guess you didn't watch the finals.

Aust
07-05-2014, 05:59 PM
I guess you didn't watch the finals.

But that's only one series.

XpLiCiTT
07-05-2014, 06:01 PM
But that's only one series.

Yeah, the only one that matters.

PraiseJesus
07-05-2014, 06:05 PM
LeBron in Cleveland would be a bore fest

Miltstar
07-05-2014, 06:33 PM
If they were really getting Lebron back wouldn't they take Embiid over Wiggins as Wiggins is basically an LBJ-lite

RateSports
07-05-2014, 06:39 PM
If they were really getting Lebron back wouldn't they take Embiid over Wiggins as Wiggins is basically an LBJ-lite

Lebron wants to win now. Taking Embiid makes no sense at all. He is 2 years from being effective.

#3_
07-05-2014, 06:57 PM
Just dont see him going back after how he was treated by the owner..

Miltstar
07-05-2014, 07:01 PM
Lebron wants to win now. Taking Embiid makes no sense at all. He is 2 years from being effective.

6-8 months ='s 2 years?

jerellh528
07-05-2014, 07:02 PM
Just dont see him going back after how he was treated by the owner..

I always hear this but I might be out of the loop. What did the owner do?

PacersForLife
07-05-2014, 07:08 PM
I always hear this but I might be out of the loop. What did the owner do?

Pretty sure he lashed out at LeBron publicly and said Cleveland would win a championship before LeBron did.

RateSports
07-05-2014, 07:11 PM
6-8 months ='s 2 years?

6-8 months off of major surgery? He is coming back as a rookie too? Yeah, two years before he becomes "something". No one walks into the NBA as a rookie, with an 8 month layoff from a foot injury, with back injuries, and balls out.

Aust
07-05-2014, 07:11 PM
Pretty sure he lashed out at LeBron publicly and said Cleveland would win a championship before LeBron did.

lol funny how that worked out. I bet that clown got really quiet when the Heat started winning chips.

Aust
07-05-2014, 07:12 PM
6-8 months ='s 2 years?

Reasonable developmental time.

JustinTime
07-05-2014, 07:27 PM
LeBron in Cleveland would be a bore fest

Lebron anywhere is a bore fest.

hugepatsfan
07-05-2014, 07:53 PM
But thats not true, at least not what was reported. Wade was angry that they couldn't land several of the names they pursued (Odom, Boozer being the most publicized). And acquiring Odom would have prevented them from landing the Big-3. Its pure speculation what Wade's feelings were, needless to say he was given championship caliber cast already, Bron got no such treatment in Cleveland.

Odom wouldn't have ruined their plans for the Big 3. He would have filled the salary slot they used for Mike Miller so they wouldn't have been able to sign him. He wasn't willing to take MLE money though so the deal fell through.

Obviously Wade was upset. Nobody likes to be stuck on losing teams. My point was MIA felt comfortable that even if they upset Wade in the short term he wouldn't ditch them. CLE didn't have that with Lebron. They always felt that if they didn't keep him happy every step of the way then he would bail on them. And he made them feel that way by being so noncommittal to them.

And you're exactly right about why Wade was willing to be more patient - he already won. I said exactly that in a post commenting on how much of a role Pat Riley as a GM had on the Big 3. I said that it didn't really take any great GMing to put the Big 3 together at the time. What he did as a GM to contribute to it was put together a team around Wade that won in 06. That allowed him to build up Wade's trust so that he had the ability to take short term losses in favor of bigger long term gains and not lose his star (maybe upset/frustrate him but not lose him). Because Lebron was still chasing his ring he never gave CLE luxury which put them behind the 8ball so to speak.


He gave them 7 years. They dont deserve much more of a commitment IMO.

I'm not saying they didn't fail in those 7 years. I'm just saying that Lebron contributed to it by putting them in a harder environment.


I remember them not making moves despite Bron's approval. I dont recall anything on Jamison, feel free to inform me on that one but Im not seeing the importance. They gave up NOTHING to add him. Cavs failed because of managerial negligence. They were the type of team that would trade a first round pick for a prospect, only to downgrade that prospect into a 2nd rounder, literally a few weeks later. Lets not pretend like Cleveland had any sort of vision. Bron wouldn't be the first to pressure his team into improving, and he wont be the last, the real difference maker is what the guy in charge does with his option.

It's not what CLE gave up in the trade for Jamison that did them in. It's what they gave up in cap flexibility. Jamison had a cap clogging contract which was the final straw for them. They had made poor moves before that, like you said, but that one was the nail in the coffin for ANY long term flexibility. It's what locked them into that short term, win now window I mentioned.


That was like after 6 years. Imagine that, you have to reup just to even have a chance to land the likes of Ariza, not even a signing but just the chance. Years before when Bron did extend his original deal, Cleveland wasn't even able to lure hometown products like Michael Redd away from small markets like Milwaukee (of all places). Bron had already given Cleveland several years more than Wade had in order to land a big 3.

No where am I saying that Lebron should have gave them the Wade treatment. You've outlined why Wade was more justified in doing so. I'm just saying that if Lebron had been willing to do that, CLE would have had a much easier time rebuilding. Lebron had good justification for doing what he did, but that doesn't change the fact that it very much screwed CLE over as they tried to build around him.


It only became an impossible situation because of their prior failures. In a snapshot, Im sure that played a role, but looking at the bigger picture, you have to rewind much sooner than that to see their numerous blunders.

Yeah CLE made a lot of horrible moves. They also got screwed by that Boozer situation. Missing out on Michael Redd hurt a lot too. Settling on Larry Hughes made matters worse (though I think the trade they made to get him out there was about as good as they could have done). The Jamison move was so short-sighted in a last ditch effort to win in Lebron's last year there.

The thing about Lebron is that he has no loyalty whatsoever to his organization. He has no desire to be built around - he wants to go to a team that is already built so he can be the last piece. He's a total mercenary but for winning rather than money. It makes it really hard to build a team of sustained success around him. Because when you have him you're a title contender and you inevitably make short term moves in an effort to better your chances. That hurts your long term potential and when that rears it's ugly head Lebron is more then willing to walk out the door. He proved that in CLE and he's proving it in MIA (even if he doesn't leave the fact that he's supposedly wants a short term deal proves it). Lebron always chasing the best situation makes it harder for the team he's on to make themselves the best situation is what I'm trying to say I guess.

PraiseJesus
07-05-2014, 08:05 PM
I made my Lebron to Knicks prediction before the NBA rigged the draft for the Cavs

hugepatsfan
07-05-2014, 08:10 PM
I made my Lebron to Knicks prediction before the NBA rigged the draft for the Cavs

And then stuck with it until yesterday...

PraiseJesus
07-05-2014, 08:11 PM
And then stuck with it until yesterday...

Its still in play, just not a slam dunk anymore.

We will see if LeBron makes himself available next offeseason when the KNicks got cap room

FlashBolt
07-05-2014, 08:12 PM
MIA fans are a bit spoiled... those are great numbers from your #2 and #3 guys... few, if any teams have two supporting players capable of putting up those numbers in the playoffs.

Wade averaged 18, 4 & 4 on 50% shooting to go along with 1.5spg and he gets treated like he's trash...

Oh how I would love that "trash" next to Melo in the playoffs instead of JR's 12ppg on 32% shooting.

J.R Smith doesn't get paid $18 million. How about you compare J.R Smith with Ray Allen or Shane Battier - a player who is equal in pay? And last I checked, Wade didn't show up for 30% of the regular season, didn't show up in the last and most important series against Spurs, and since when was 15/6 become good numbers for a 2nd or 3rd option? I can name 10 teams that have have better numbers with their 2nd or 3rd options. Fact is, they are not worth $18 million.



But that's only one series.

What's the point of Wade taking a rest only to suck in the Finals? If anything, he should be well prepared for the Finals seeing as the rest of the Eastern Conference was a breeze.

Dade County
07-05-2014, 08:13 PM
In order to set up the Big 3 MIA had to spend a couple of off seasons focusing on clearing cap. In doing so, they pretty much threw away 2 years of Wade's prime. They could have fielded better teams during those seasons, but chose not to in hopes of putting together something bigger down the line. The one move they tried to make was landing Odom the offseason before the Big 3 came together. But if you remember, it didn't happen because they were trying to land him on a below market deal that would have left their bigger plans for the next offseason in tact. Despite having prime years wasted, Wade didn't apply extra pressure on the organization to "win now." He didn't make them feel like they were in danger of losing him because of what they were doing.

Lebron, on the other hand, would never give any sort of commitment to the Cavaliers franchise. He always made it perfectly clear that he was keeping his options open and the only thing that would convince him to stay was winning. Remember how he got mad when they didn't trade for Jason Kidd? Remember the reports of how hard he pushed for them to make the Jamison trade? The Cavs never were able to take a long range approach to building their roster because Lebron always made them feel like if they didn't get short term results he was out the door. They also faced the issue of CLE not being a place players generally want to play but Lebron made that issue even more difficult with his indifference to staying. Remember when Ariza and Artest met with them and were considering MLE offers but wouldn't take them because they didn't want to be stuck in CLE with no Lebron. They couldn't build a team Lebron would want to stay with unless they had assurance that Lebron would stay. It was an impossible situation.

You are bending what really happened a little.

Lbj wasn't indecisive for 7yrs... The Cav's had 5 strong years to try to get a star around Lbj, they epicly failed .

Whats the excuse of not getting a star player, when Lbj was still on his rookie deal (3yrs in the league). Then why couldn't they amass talent in that time frame, so when Lbj did sign his first Max contract they could have tried to get another star around him?

Now 3 years pass from him signing that max contract (yr6), he has two more years but the last year he can opt out. So now we are at 6yrs, and still no help (the man went to the Final's with a scrub team & a little help from the league; all stars get that help because of Jordan & Stern).

Now the Cav's come walking in and tell Lbj, we need you to commit so we can try to get some star players here (Lbj mind most have exploded like the big bang theory).

hugepatsfan?
Can you explain to me what happen the first 5yrs, and why the Cav's couldn't get a single star player to join Lbj on the Cav's. Don't just jump to year 6.

1. The Cav's had no real assets other teams wanted (who fault is that?)
2. When they could have had Stat, they said no because they wanted to keep Hickson.
3. Free agents didn't care that Lbj was on the Cav's; they still wanted no part of Cleveland.

And for goodness sake, the league had to step in and help Irving (all these 1st round draft picks...lol); because lord knows that front office was going to do a damn thing to get him some real help (because star players just don't want to comment their, unless a Lbj type of player is there... K Love said no he wouldn't re-sign there if he was traded to the Cav's, now reports are saying if Lbj is there he would be happy to stay there.)

FlashBolt
07-05-2014, 08:20 PM
I think I speak for a lot of LeBron fans when I say this: We want to see him in Cleveland rather than Miami. Strictly speaking (I don't want Miami fans to take this in the wrong way), you guys have to admit your fanbase is one of the worst in terms of: knowledge, arguments, and loyalty. Let's face it. A Cleveland Cavailers crowd is ruckus, entertaining, and loyal. Yes, they burned his jersey. Yes, they were aggressive. But they showed that they as basketball fans care about their team. If you're a player and you see your team not showing up to games until the second quarter, you know it hurts. The environment in Miami is just not the same for them. I love watching James at Cleveland even though he had no help because they were with him through thick and thin. He comes back to Cleveland, wins a ring for them, finishes his legacy there, and becomes a role player for them until his career ends. That's a perfect story for him and Cleveland. Miami is just not the place for him anymore. I really think Cleveland is the best team for him this time around.

PraiseJesus
07-05-2014, 08:26 PM
I think I speak for a lot of LeBron fans when I say this: We want to see him in Cleveland rather than Miami. Strictly speaking (I don't want Miami fans to take this in the wrong way), you guys have to admit your fanbase is one of the worst in terms of: knowledge, arguments, and loyalty. Let's face it. A Cleveland Cavailers crowd is ruckus, entertaining, and loyal. Yes, they burned his jersey. Yes, they were aggressive. But they showed that they as basketball fans care about their team. If you're a player and you see your team not showing up to games until the second quarter, you know it hurts. The environment in Miami is just not the same for them. I love watching James at Cleveland even though he had no help because they were with him through thick and thin. He comes back to Cleveland, wins a ring for them, finishes his legacy there, and becomes a role player for them until his career ends. That's a perfect story for him and Cleveland. Miami is just not the place for him anymore. I really think Cleveland is the best team for him this time around.

You definitely don't speak for all LeBron fans

LeBron in Ohio is boring

He needs to be in a major market like LA or NYC

More-Than-Most
07-05-2014, 08:28 PM
Its quite hilarious to watch... All that hate on him would quickly change a tune if he signed with their team... Cleveland will hold a parade for the guy with big signs saying welcome home... Laker and bulls fans would call him the bestest player in the league by far once he joined.... That wagon is about to rev up with loads of cavs fans who burned their jerseys

jerellh528
07-05-2014, 08:30 PM
Its quite hilarious to watch... All that hate on him would quickly change a tune if he signed with their team... Cleveland will hold a parade for the guy with big signs saying welcome home... Laker and bulls fans would call him the bestest player in the league by far once he joined.... That wagon is about to rev up with loads of cavs fans who burned their jerseys

No

Dade County
07-05-2014, 08:31 PM
I think I speak for a lot of LeBron fans when I say this: We want to see him in Cleveland rather than Miami. Strictly speaking (I don't want Miami fans to take this in the wrong way), you guys have to admit your fanbase is one of the worst in terms of: knowledge, arguments, and loyalty. Let's face it. A Cleveland Cavailers crowd is ruckus, entertaining, and loyal. Yes, they burned his jersey. Yes, they were aggressive. But they showed that they as basketball fans care about their team. If you're a player and you see your team not showing up to games until the second quarter, you know it hurts. The environment in Miami is just not the same for them. I love watching James at Cleveland even though he had no help because they were with him through thick and thin. He comes back to Cleveland, wins a ring for them, finishes his legacy there, and becomes a role player for them until his career ends. That's a perfect story for him and Cleveland. Miami is just not the place for him anymore. I really think Cleveland is the best team for him this time around.

And all this ^^ is whats best for Lbj because you say so? And if it doesn't go this way Lbj did something wrong right?

:laugh2:

Thank you Pat & Wade, lucky to have you as a HEAT fan.*

Hotone1401
07-05-2014, 08:32 PM
You definitely don't speak for all LeBron fans

LeBron in Ohio is boring

He needs to be in a major market like LA or NYC

You're wrong. As a former Lebron hater who has grown to really respect the guy, I can't imagine a better way to finish the second half of his career anywhere other than Cleveland. I aftually think Lebron gains more fans that way and even the NBA. I know I would be rooting for him to bring Cleveland their first title so long as it isn't against my Lakers someday.

Hotone1401
07-05-2014, 08:33 PM
And all this ^^ is whats best for Lbj because you say so? And if it doesn't go this way Lbj did something wrong right?

:laugh2:

Thank you Pat & Wade, lucky to have you as a HEAT fan.*

You're simply the biggest idiot homer on this site. Congrats.

FlashBolt
07-05-2014, 08:36 PM
You definitely don't speak for all LeBron fans

LeBron in Ohio is boring

He needs to be in a major market like LA or NYC

No, him in Miami is boring. Watch the games, they announcer sucks, the guy who screams LEBRRRRON JAAAAMES is annoying, and the KA-BOOOM guy is the most biased commentator I've ever watched outside of Reggie Miller. Cleveland fans are ruckus and they are a top 5 crowd when they start winning.


And all this ^^ is whats best for Lbj because you say so? And if it doesn't go this way Lbj did something wrong right?

:laugh2:

Thank you Pat & Wade, lucky to have you as a HEAT fan.*

No, it's best for LBJ because it makes the most sense. Outside of Miami, Cleveland is obviously right up there in terms of doing what's right. I don't blame him for leaving Cleveland but I'm not going to say he won't get some points for coming back and finishing business there. Cleveland has never won a ring before. In history, LeBron James winning a ring for that franchise will go down in the history books. And I did say LeBron fans strictly - not Heat fans. No need to get bundled up in someone's opinion. If you can't see that the majority of Heat fans are up there with NYK and LAL fans as the worst, you've got to be lying.

PraiseJesus
07-05-2014, 08:55 PM
No, him in Miami is boring. Watch the games, they announcer sucks, the guy who screams LEBRRRRON JAAAAMES is annoying, and the KA-BOOOM guy is the most biased commentator I've ever watched outside of Reggie Miller. Cleveland fans are ruckus and they are a top 5 crowd when they start winning.



No, it's best for LBJ because it makes the most sense. Outside of Miami, Cleveland is obviously right up there in terms of doing what's right. I don't blame him for leaving Cleveland but I'm not going to say he won't get some points for coming back and finishing business there. Cleveland has never won a ring before. In history, LeBron James winning a ring for that franchise will go down in the history books. And I did say LeBron fans strictly - not Heat fans. No need to get bundled up in someone's opinion. If you can't see that the majority of Heat fans are up there with NYK and LAL fans as the worst, you've got to be lying.



I completely agree with LeBron in Miami being boring and thats why im hoping he leaves

Dade County
07-05-2014, 08:55 PM
No, him in Miami is boring. Watch the games, they announcer sucks, the guy who screams LEBRRRRON JAAAAMES is annoying, and the KA-BOOOM guy is the most biased commentator I've ever watched outside of Reggie Miller. Cleveland fans are ruckus and they are a top 5 crowd when they start winning.



No, it's best for LBJ because it makes the most sense. Outside of Miami, Cleveland is obviously right up there in terms of doing what's right.

No to be disrespectful but I bussed out laughing :laugh:

[QUOTE=FlashBolt;28733280]
I don't blame him for leaving Cleveland but I'm not going to say he won't get some points for coming back and finishing business there. Cleveland has never won a ring before.

And what if he never wins there?

Do you not understand that this is his life and he has to leave with the consequences.

(On another note)
To make it worse, what if the HEAT keep on going to Final's and win a couple of rings (without Lbj), what would that do to his legacy?




In history, LeBron James winning a ring for that franchise will go down in the history books.

Over rated man... Wade one a ring in Miami, I don't run around saying 8yrs latter, thats in the history books.

But yes, that state is thirsty for a professional championship.



And I did say LeBron fans strictly - not Heat fans.

Oh ok, his a con-artist anyway.



No need to get bundled up in someone's opinion. If you can't see that the majority of Heat fans are up there with NYK and LAL fans as the worst, you've got to be lying.

lol

Lakers fans are not the problem, it's Kobe fans that are ****ing crazy.

And being born in New York is bad enough, so lets leave them alone. But their is no other teams rival I rather cuss out then a Knicks & jets fan.

MavsUCCB
07-05-2014, 08:57 PM
Lebron needs to be in a major market, it's good for Lebron, it's good for the NBA, it's good for basketball. As much as I've hated the Heat hype machine and the big three for alot of people it's important to have a polarizing force that you either like or hate. Him being in Cleveland doesn't have the appeal of a Miami, New York, or LA.

If he does end up going back to the Cavs though I hope it's announced in a press release that's typed in Comic-Sans.

PraiseJesus
07-05-2014, 08:58 PM
You're wrong. As a former Lebron hater who has grown to really respect the guy, I can't imagine a better way to finish the second half of his career anywhere other than Cleveland. I aftually think Lebron gains more fans that way and even the NBA. I know I would be rooting for him to bring Cleveland their first title so long as it isn't against my Lakers someday.

Not everyone thinks the same about this, lets agree on that at least haha


That being said, I can understand why LeBron would return to Cleveland....

He is SOOOO much better now than he was 4 years ago, the mental growth in his game is something I never expected


He can goto Cleveland and actually attract big names to join him now...

But still.... IT would be so much more exciting to see him make a run in NYC and Madison Square Garden

He would outshine the Yankees and any other attraction in the city!

PraiseJesus
07-05-2014, 08:58 PM
Lebron needs to be in a major market, it's good for Lebron, it's good for the NBA, it's good for basketball. As much as I've hated the Heat hype machine and the big three for alot of people it's important to have a polarizing force that you either like or hate. Him being in Cleveland doesn't have the appeal of a Miami, New York, or LA.

If he does end up going back to the Cavs though I hope it's announced in a press release that's typed in Comic-Sans.

100% agree

beliges
07-05-2014, 08:58 PM
Lebron should just quit jumping ship each time he can't win a title and allow a team to be built around him. Just freaking stay in Miami and let them build yiu another spectacular team. Such a coward move to keep jumping ship.

Dade County
07-05-2014, 09:07 PM
I completely agree with LeBron in Miami being boring and thats why im hoping he leaves

What do you mean by boring?

Are you trying to say that Lbj in Miami is to much of a cake walk (like how other posters always say, when it comes to Lbj on the HEAT) and it's no fun because no one in the East is getting a turn to be on top?



You're simply the biggest HEAT lover homer on this site. Congrats.

Thank you!

I appreciate that.

FlashBolt
07-05-2014, 09:10 PM
No, it's best for LBJ because it makes the most sense. Outside of Miami, Cleveland is obviously right up there in terms of doing what's right.

No to be disrespectful but I bussed out laughing :laugh:



And what if he never wins there?

Do you not understand that this is his life and he has to leave with the consequences.

(On another note)
To make it worse, what if the HEAT keep on going to Final's and win a couple of rings (without Lbj), what would that do to his legacy?




Over rated man... Wade one a ring in Miami, I don't run around saying 8yrs latter, thats in the history books.

But yes, that state is thirsty for a professional championship.



Oh ok, his a con-artist anyway.



lol

Lakers fans are not the problem, it's Kobe fans that are ****ing crazy.

And being born in New York is bad enough, so lets leave them alone. But their is no other teams rival I rather cuss out then a Knicks & jets fan.[/QUOTE]


1) If he goes to any other team besides Miami or Cleveland, he would have the reputation of being a championship chaser. Much better he stays in Miami and continue winning rings, go to Cleveland and win their first ring and become their hero, than going to Clippers and win.

2) What if he never wins there? Look at what Cleveland has. A young roster, a respectable coach in David Blatt who has become one of the best coaches in European basketball while also being an absolutely architecture in the offensive end of basketball. Do you know what he could do for LeBron that Spo can't? Spo doesn't know how to utilize his players. It's why Wade hasn't adapted while having some serious injuries. It's why Bosh has become a three point shooter rather than an all around big man. It's why Beasley, Oden, and countless others have not been able to produce any results. Spo knows one thing and that's pass the ball to LeBron and yell at the refs when LeBron doesn't get a call. Other than that, this guy has no game plan for anything. Dude decides to put Beasley in and take Chalmers out in game 5 and that was his rotation? Lol, good one, Spo. He also puts Haslem in when it's too late and then tried to do the same while Pop takes out Splinter and completely mindblows Spo.

3) What does Miami offer to James that Cleveland doesn't offer? Asides from the amazing front office of Miami, they don't have much of anything that entices James. Cleveland has the better supporting cast, coach, fans, and despite all of Miami's wonderful amenities, James is content with Cleveland. It's his home and he loves it there. So while Cleveland is a bore for many, it's his home and he loves it.

4) Actually, Wade is still remembered as the hero of Miami. There are Heat fans who'd rather have Wade than James. It's not a disagreement that Miami Heat fans still stick by Wade despite James being their leader. In Cleveland, James is their golden boy. Their ultimate best player, and theirplayer. It's not the same.

Dade County
07-05-2014, 09:32 PM
1) If he goes to any other team besides Miami or Cleveland, he would have the reputation of being a championship chaser. Much better he stays in Miami and continue winning rings, go to Cleveland and win their first ring and become their hero, than going to Clippers and win.


He can go wherever he wants, I wont be mad.

It's just when people say he has to go here because of this reason r any reason, is when I say hold on it's his life.



2) What if he never wins there? Look at what Cleveland has. A young roster, a respectable coach in David Blatt who has become one of the best coaches in European basketball while also being an absolutely architecture in the offensive end of basketball. Do you know what he could do for LeBron that Spo can't? Spo doesn't know how to utilize his players. It's why Wade hasn't adapted while having some serious injuries. It's why Bosh has become a three point shooter rather than an all around big man. It's why Beasley, Oden, and countless others have not been able to produce any results. Spo knows one thing and that's pass the ball to LeBron and yell at the refs when LeBron doesn't get a call. Other than that, this guy has no game plan for anything. Dude decides to put Beasley in and take Chalmers out in game 5 and that was his rotation? Lol, good one, Spo. He also puts Haslem in when it's too late and then tried to do the same while Pop takes out Splinter and completely mindblows Spo.

I don't care about Spo so. And you are not factoring in whats really going on with the HEAT/Lbj. They could have 4peated if allowed too. And would have had nothing to do with Spo.

And this still doesn't answer the question, what if Lbj doesn't win there; will people be saying 10yrs from now, well he tried?

No, they will say that he couldn't win with out Wade.





3) What does Miami offer to James that Cleveland doesn't offer? Asides from the amazing front office of Miami, they don't have much of anything that entices James. Cleveland has the better supporting cast, coach, fans, and despite all of Miami's wonderful amenities, James is content with Cleveland. It's his home and he loves it there. So while Cleveland is a bore for many, it's his home and he loves it.

Are you a Cav's fan?




4) Actually, Wade is still remembered as the hero of Miami. There are Heat fans who'd rather have Wade than James. It's not a disagreement that Miami Heat fans still stick by Wade despite James being their leader. In Cleveland, James is their golden boy. Their ultimate best player, and theirplayer. It's not the same.

Wade is till my favorite player, but I had to put all of that aside and just focus on the organization. To many con job games for me to take seriously.

FlashBolt
07-05-2014, 09:42 PM
He can go wherever he wants, I wont be mad.

It's just when people say he has to go here because of this reason r any reason, is when I say hold on it's his life.



I don't care about Spo so. And you are not factoring in whats really going on with the HEAT/Lbj. They could have 4peated if allowed too. And would have had nothing to do with Spo.

And this still doesn't answer the question, what if Lbj doesn't win there; will people be saying 10yrs from now, well he tried?

No, they will say that he couldn't win with out Wade.





Are you a Cav's fan?




Wade is till my favorite player, but I had to put all of that aside and just focus on the organization. To many con job games for me to take seriously.

Uhm, what are your arguments exactly. I failed to see what you were trying to get at. I'm just saying Cleveland has a better future than Miami at this point. Kyrie signed a long term deal and is going to be a top 10 player very soon. He's already a top 10 PG and only what? 22? He has at least 9 years AHEAD of him. How many years does Wade/Bosh have? What if he doesn't win? Well, do you know for sure he will win if he stays in Miami? I think not. Higher chance of winning at Cleveland than Miami and until you can debate that, there really is no debate. And no - I'm not a Cavs fan. I am far from that. I was a Seattle fan and a big supporter of Ray Allen. Once he left, I stuck by the Seattle-OKC era and still support them. In 2009, people were saying he quit despite him averaging 38.5 points, 8 rebounds, and 8 assists per game. I just enjoyed his game since then and felt that he receives a lot of unwarranted treatment when it was not his fault things happened the way it did. I am also quick to criticize him so it's not as if I'm just defending him if he's out there killing people..

Crunch Time
07-05-2014, 10:29 PM
the sellsword LeBronn?

goingfor28
07-05-2014, 10:30 PM
Hope he goes to the CAVS just to quiet down the crazy amount of heat fans that popped up 4 years ago

jerellh528
07-05-2014, 10:31 PM
I hope he goes to the bucks

PraiseJesus
07-05-2014, 10:33 PM
What do you mean by boring?

Are you trying to say that Lbj in Miami is to much of a cake walk (like how other posters always say, when it comes to Lbj on the HEAT) and it's no fun because no one in the East is getting a turn to be on top?




Thank you!

I appreciate that.

I can't really explain why it's boring...

It wasn't boring the first couple years he was in Miami, it was exciting and compelling...

I honestly think the city of Miami and its fans are a big reason for the boring ness....

It's like Miami is the farthest SW point of the USA and kind of a small market with fans that really don't appreciate basketball or sports enough...

thats my best guess.

LeBron in NYC PJax and Melo and Dfish would be absolutely awesome. Almost like the Bulls from the 90s

FYL_McVeezy
07-05-2014, 10:39 PM
Ethan J. Skolnick @EthanJSkolnick 13m
Standing behind what I've reported on Bosh: wants to b in MIA, ideally for 5 yrs, & while he was aiming for near 90, he wants 2 help team.

One of the better Miami reporters.

I still believe the big 3 work it out and go back to Miami. The media is full of smoke n mirrors....

amos1er
07-05-2014, 10:46 PM
Jeez. All it took was 3 first picks to get him to play for the team that drafted him. Nice. I called this from the start. I have been documented saying that Lebron will go back to Cleveland many times on here. I even knew the league would rig the draft to make it appealing to him because they knew his legacy was tarnished by forming the big three and coming up short in the finals twice even after saying not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, not seven...

What a complete joke. I really don't know why there are so many on here who are in love with him. Ring chasing in his prime... Wow.

Mochalman
07-05-2014, 10:53 PM
Jeez. All it took was 3 first picks to get him to play for the team that drafted him. Nice. I called this from the start. I have been documented saying that Lebron will go back to Cleveland many times on here. I even knew the league would rig the draft to make it appealing to him because they knew his legacy was tarnished by forming the big three and coming up short in the finals twice even after saying not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, not seven...

What a complete joke. I really don't know why there are so many on here who are in love with him. Ring chasing in his prime... Wow.

What is the winning Powerball numbers?

apocalypse15
07-05-2014, 11:24 PM
LBJ back with the Cavs would be best for the nba IMO. So much young talent there and with James I think they can form a legit contender for years. The big 3 in Miami is getting old.

LA_Raiders
07-05-2014, 11:40 PM
He will stay in Miami too bad bosh will be gone by then.

Slug3
07-06-2014, 01:36 AM
He will stay in Miami too bad bosh will be gone by then.

Bosh most likely won't make any moves till Lebron does.

FlashBolt
07-06-2014, 01:40 AM
Bosh asking for $18 million per/5 years is a joke. Dude should take $14m per year and love it. If you want to play with Bron, make a sacrifice. No way you deserve that money when you got outplayed like a child.

Cal827
07-06-2014, 01:43 AM
What would be awesome would be for the other teams to make choices on signing players BEFORE Lebron makes his decision lol

PraiseJesus
07-06-2014, 02:08 AM
all the ppl hating on Bosh dont realize how valuable a big man with his skillset is

he doesnt get hur either

Bosh is definitely a max player

FlashBolt
07-06-2014, 02:15 AM
all the ppl hating on Bosh dont realize how valuable a big man with his skillset is

he doesnt get hur either

Bosh is definitely a max player

Skillset? Can you clarify these skillsets? Camping out at the three point line while refusing to post up is not a skillset that I am aware of. Look how far that skillset got him.

http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/13/16/13164867a6dbc3bf5572ca9579027de2.png

Those numbers do not warrant a max player. He can get one just like Meeks got overpaid but in no way is he a max player talent. No one is hating on him but I can name 25 players I'd rather take over Bosh.

Dade County
07-06-2014, 02:44 AM
Skillset? Can you clarify these skillsets? Camping out at the three point line while refusing to post up is not a skillset that I am aware of. Look how far that skillset got him.

http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/13/16/13164867a6dbc3bf5572ca9579027de2.png

Those numbers do not warrant a max player. He can get one just like Meeks got overpaid but in no way is he a max player talent. No one is hating on him but I can name 25 players I'd rather take over Bosh.

And most of them don't have rings.

That was one of Bosh's sacrifices, his indivual numbers along with other things.

BlinkManJan02
07-06-2014, 03:54 AM
Well I think we know he won't be going to a western team regardless, seeing there is talent there and he wouldn't be able to dominate a conference every year.

Hotone1401
07-06-2014, 05:39 AM
Skillset? Can you clarify these skillsets? Camping out at the three point line while refusing to post up is not a skillset that I am aware of. Look how far that skillset got him.

http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/13/16/13164867a6dbc3bf5572ca9579027de2.png

Those numbers do not warrant a max player. He can get one just like Meeks got overpaid but in no way is he a max player talent. No one is hating on him but I can name 25 players I'd rather take over Bosh.

I think you're underestimating the guy a bit. He certainly has a unique skillset in that he can face up, play in the post, and is pretty much money from mid-range. Bosh's play was severely hindered in that Miami (Lebron) system. They made a choice and a smart one. Run the offense through Lebron by keeping the lane open and surrounding him with shooters. This is one of the drawbacks to being such an incredible all around player like Lebron. While he can do just about anything, his game dictates that he makes every play for the Heat to be successful.

People (not you) don't realize how much Lebron's game would have to be adjusted and his numbers affected if he were to play with a dominant post player. An inside/out game is much much different than a drive & kick. Half court vs. transition as well.

kantarok
07-06-2014, 09:18 AM
Bosh should leave to the Rockets. I think a trio of Harden, Bosh and Dwight Howard is more deadly right now anyways and he needs a pg that can play pick and roll and iso's run for him to be good. Or else he will just be this boring mid-range jump shooter making space for Lebron to drive for the rest of his career while also taking MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dollars less, he has two rings now and should focus on recreating a name for himself so he can actually be more respected by the league.

beliges
07-06-2014, 11:16 AM
LBJ back with the Cavs would be best for the nba IMO. So much young talent there and with James I think they can form a legit contender for years. The big 3 in Miami is getting old.

How about LBJ just stay with his team? Since when did it become ok for a player to jump.ship each time he fails to win. I meat at some point in his career, if he wants a great legacy, Lebron is gonna have to win a couple of championships with a team built around him.

prodigy
07-06-2014, 12:23 PM
The cavs most likely already has a trade in place for love. But love will only resign if bron is there. How can lebron say he wants to win but then walk away from that lineup. Just can't.

Jamiecballer
07-06-2014, 12:37 PM
I like the idea of Lebron going back to Cleveland but at the same time I have zero confidence in the guys they have drafted. Its like a team of Michael Beasley's. There are way better scenarios out there for him. Phoenix and Toronto being the most obvious IMO.

prodigy
07-06-2014, 12:51 PM
I like the idea of Lebron going back to Cleveland but at the same time I have zero confidence in the guys they have drafted. Its like a team of Michael Beasley's. There are way better scenarios out there for him. Phoenix and Toronto being the most obvious IMO.

They wouldn't draft love sir.

Also he's not going anywhere other then heat or cavs. Lebrons not dumb he knows jumping on another team would do more harm then good. Lol at Toronto

ghettosean
07-06-2014, 01:33 PM
all the ppl hating on Bosh dont realize how valuable a big man with his skillset is

he doesnt get hur either

Bosh is definitely a max player

Skillset? Can you clarify these skillsets? Camping out at the three point line while refusing to post up is not a skillset that I am aware of. Look how far that skillset got him.

http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/13/16/13164867a6dbc3bf5572ca9579027de2.png

Those numbers do not warrant a max player. He can get one just like Meeks got overpaid but in no way is he a max player talent. No one is hating on him but I can name 25 players I'd rather take over Bosh.

Bosh is 100% a max player as far as stats go he was the one to really sacrifice his numbers to make things work. If Lebron leaves Bosh will go back to being 20+ points and 10 rebounds especially if he has a teammate to take some attention away from him like he DIDN'T have in Toronto.

SPURSFAN1
07-06-2014, 01:35 PM
If Lebron goes to the Cavaliers, would they have 4 number 1 picks?

Jamiecballer
07-06-2014, 01:42 PM
They wouldn't draft love sir.

Also he's not going anywhere other then heat or cavs. Lebrons not dumb he knows jumping on another team would do more harm then good. Lol at Toronto
You might LOL at Toronto because its Toronto, but there are very few teams that have a roster where Lebron is a better fit that don't suck. They are a pretty good team lacking a superstar and major playmaker.

dalton749
07-06-2014, 03:07 PM
Lebron wouldn't come to Toronto. But it would be a good out for him because it's probably the only good team in the league that if he were to come in free agency it would boost his legacy not ruin it because nobody thinks of Toronto as a place you go to get rings

FlashBolt
07-06-2014, 03:53 PM
The only one saying Bosh are max players are Kobe fans who want to say Bron had help and Miami Heat fans who still don't understand. Bosh is a max player who got DEFEATED by Hibbert, David West, Al Jefferson, and Tim Duncan. In every series, he was beaten by their front court. If he was a max player, he didn't show it. Evaluate this from the standpoint that Bosh is not the same Toronto player. He isn't. You say well, he's sacrificed for the team. Sure, but didn't Duncan sacrifice along with many others? Dirk is playing better than Bosh for Christ's sake. There is no excuse for Bosh getting outplayed every damn game. How many times has Bosh outrebounded a front court worth mentioning? Never. Reason? Because he's not as good as you think he is. How many times has Bosh made it past the 1st round without Miami? 0. How many games has Bosh won in the playoffs without Bron/Wade? 3. Even in his Toronto days, he wasn't as good as people think he is. A max player would have helped James. A max player would have CONTRIBUTED with or without shooting threes. Nothing he has done the past three years lead me to believe he's worth a max contract. There's a difference between being worth a max contract and getting a max contract.

Vee-Rex
07-06-2014, 04:13 PM
Bosh is 100% a max player as far as stats go he was the one to really sacrifice his numbers to make things work. If Lebron leaves Bosh will go back to being 20+ points and 10 rebounds especially if he has a teammate to take some attention away from him like he DIDN'T have in Toronto.

Umm... sacrifice numbers? He was averaging 18ppg and 8rbg in the playoffs in the 2010-2011 season. Then his numbers dropped. They were still 2 games away from beating Dallas, so there's absolutely no reason for his numbers to drop and there were no 'sacrifices' made. He just got worse and started playing at the 3 point line.

Kevin Garnett averaged 20/10 in the playoffs the year the Celtics won the championship... he had to sacrifice but he didn't just disappear. That was a 32 year old Garnett. Bosh is 30 right now and has been inconsistent in the playoffs the last 3 years. There's no 'sacrifice' being made here. He's not worth a max deal even if he might get one.

Edit: There is a difference between sacrificing and still having a big impact (Garnett) and sacrificing yet disappearing and having little impact sometimes (Bosh). So while Bosh did make a sacrifice to his stats, it's no excuse to have small impact during crucial finals runs.

goingfor28
07-06-2014, 04:18 PM
If Lebron goes to the Cavaliers, would they have 4 number 1 picks?
Yes. Lebron. Kyrie. Bennett. Wiggins.

Unless they send wiggins in a package for love.

FlashBolt
07-06-2014, 04:28 PM
I really hate the assumption that players always get better. Not every player does get better. Their prime is different than most players. Generally, the prime is 26-31, but that's the average. Bosh's prime could be past him. If you think someone who camps out there in the three point and doesn't rebound is a max contract player, I hope your team finds a way to argue that. Those excuses with Bosh sacrificing for the team is crap. What happened when James went to the bench? Does he step up? I sure as hell never saw it.

Hotone1401
07-06-2014, 04:39 PM
The only one saying Bosh are max players are Kobe fans who want to say Bron had help and Miami Heat fans who still don't understand. Bosh is a max player who got DEFEATED by Hibbert, David West, Al Jefferson, and Tim Duncan. In every series, he was beaten by their front court. If he was a max player, he didn't show it. Evaluate this from the standpoint that Bosh is not the same Toronto player. He isn't. You say well, he's sacrificed for the team. Sure, but didn't Duncan sacrifice along with many others? Dirk is playing better than Bosh for Christ's sake. There is no excuse for Bosh getting outplayed every damn game. How many times has Bosh outrebounded a front court worth mentioning? Never. Reason? Because he's not as good as you think he is. How many times has Bosh made it past the 1st round without Miami? 0. How many games has Bosh won in the playoffs without Bron/Wade? 3. Even in his Toronto days, he wasn't as good as people think he is. A max player would have helped James. A max player would have CONTRIBUTED with or without shooting threes. Nothing he has done the past three years lead me to believe he's worth a max contract. There's a difference between being worth a max contract and getting a max contract.

What?? I see a lot more people saying Bosh is worth the mad than just Kobe fans. I think it's interesting you automatically reach to attack Kobe fans.

I disagree with you about Bosh but that only because I appreciate him more as a player than you do. Simple as that.

NBA_Starter
07-06-2014, 04:49 PM
If that guy is wrong then they will run him out of Cleveland.

ghettosean
07-06-2014, 06:20 PM
Umm... sacrifice numbers? He was averaging 18ppg and 8rbg in the playoffs in the 2010-2011 season. Then his numbers dropped. They were still 2 games away from beating Dallas, so there's absolutely no reason for his numbers to drop and there were no 'sacrifices' made. He just got worse and started playing at the 3 point line.

Kevin Garnett averaged 20/10 in the playoffs the year the Celtics won the championship... he had to sacrifice but he didn't just disappear. That was a 32 year old Garnett. Bosh is 30 right now and has been inconsistent in the playoffs the last 3 years. There's no 'sacrifice' being made here. He's not worth a max deal even if he might get one.

Edit: There is a difference between sacrificing and still having a big impact (Garnett) and sacrificing yet disappearing and having little impact sometimes (Bosh). So while Bosh did make a sacrifice to his stats, it's no excuse to have small impact during crucial finals runs.

Well you got it right...

When he was averaging close to 18 and 8 in his first year they LOST and when he changed his game more so to make things work guess what --> BACK TO BACK CHAMPS!

He 100% sacrificed his game to make things work anyone who can not see that is blind and just looks at the stat sheet instead of watching the games. Or maybe with no injurys and still being young he just dropped off :rolleyes:

RateSports
07-06-2014, 08:17 PM
@AnthonyLimaFAN: Been working on this for two hours but can now confirm from second source that LBJ's friend and former Cav Zydrunas Ilgauskas was on plane


I think it's going down.

Kenny Powders
07-06-2014, 09:11 PM
I wonder what would happen to all the heat fans who showed up here 4 years ago, if this did actually go down

Buckwheat
07-06-2014, 09:49 PM
People better be ready for this to happen. Because it's going to go down in a few days and the Internet will break.

sammyvine
07-06-2014, 09:58 PM
I wonder what would happen to all the heat fans who showed up here 4 years ago, if this did actually go down

will there be any heat fans left? i think they will all jump to the cavs

d00d
07-06-2014, 10:01 PM
will there be any heat fans left? i think they will all jump to the cavs

order will be restored to the universe as Heat fans return to the beach and forget basketball for another 10 years

FlashBolt
07-06-2014, 10:06 PM
Decision is probably happening this week. I don't see how Miami can compete with Cleveland's roster. Him going back to Cleveland is definitely a great choice.

Great fanbase (besides the burning jersey thing which just shows how loyal they are to their team)
Great roster
Great future
Earns respect/hero of Cleveland if they win

Or he can stay in Miami and babysit Bosh/Wade and play for fans who show up late and leave as soon as Miami starts losing.

d00d
07-06-2014, 10:08 PM
can you imagine Lebron watching Wade turn into a paraplegic over the next 2 years

Duncan = Donkey
07-06-2014, 10:11 PM
Not a winning a title this season if he goes to Cleveland, they are horrible. Still think he stays with Miami

d00d
07-06-2014, 10:13 PM
Not a winning a title this season if he goes to Cleveland, they are horrible. Still think he stays with Miami


why would he stay in Miami? Wade is ****. Bosh is a 3 point shooter. Noone wants to sign up next year.

Why go back there?

FlashBolt
07-06-2014, 10:14 PM
Not a winning a title this season if he goes to Cleveland, they are horrible. Still think he stays with Miami

Kyrie, Wiggins, Varejao, Tristan Thompson, Waiters, and Jarrett Jack are a far better roster than Cole, Wade, and Bosh. They are also the SAME PRICE as Wade, Cole, and Bosh. And btw, David Blatt can actually coach.

d00d
07-06-2014, 10:18 PM
His wife said the countdown to Akron started, this is going to happen. the vagina trumps all

Duncan = Donkey
07-06-2014, 10:19 PM
Kyrie, Wiggins, Varejao, Tristan Thompson, Waiters, and Jarrett Jack are a far better roster than Cole, Wade, and Bosh. They are also the SAME PRICE as Wade, Cole, and Bosh. And btw, David Blatt can actually coach.

On paper they look good, in reality they suck. They won 33 games last year. Lebron will get them to playoffs in the East easily, but they aint doing squat in the playoffs until next season at least.

lamzoka
07-06-2014, 10:21 PM
The true Miami fans would be pissed. Not because LeBron left, but because he left in such a fashion that screws Miami over.

If he told Riley from Day 1 he was leaving, I say, thanks for 4 years and 2 titles, good luck wherever you go LeBron. He screws Miami over in the sense he made Wade/Bosh/Haslem opt out, and also stopped Miami for going other talent to replace him.

He doesn't owe Riley an explanation. If he's leaving the heat for the cavs, I'm sure he couldn't careless how bad the heat team looks next season. They're no longer his problem.

He also didn't make wade, bosh and haslem opt out. He did what he thinks is best for his career and they followed him. They didn't have to opt out.

Cavs should trade waiters, Bennett and 2 future first round for Love. (Bron, Love, Kyrie and wiggins would be a dynasty)

YAALREADYKNO
07-06-2014, 10:27 PM
wow! imagine a lineup of
kyrie
wiggins
lebron
thompson
varejo

JustinTime
07-06-2014, 10:29 PM
He doesn't owe Riley an explanation. If he's leaving the heat for the cavs, I'm sure he couldn't careless how bad the heat team looks next season. They're no longer his problem.

He also didn't make wade, bosh and haslem opt out. He did what he thinks is best for his career and they followed him. They didn't have to opt out.

Cavs should trade waiters, Bennett and 2 future first round for Love. (Bron, Love, Kyrie and wiggins would be a dynasty)

Bennett is looking pretty tank right now I think he's going to surprise a lot of people this year.

looka09
07-06-2014, 10:31 PM
Chris Broussard @Chris_Broussard 1m

Cleveland has replaced Miami as my frontrunner to land LeBron James...

JustinTime
07-06-2014, 10:31 PM
On paper they look good, in reality they suck. They won 33 games last year. Lebron will get them to playoffs in the East easily, but they aint doing squat in the playoffs until next season at least.

Don't understate the coaching change.

Duncan = Donkey
07-06-2014, 10:33 PM
Don't understate the coaching change.

Thats a wait and see though, he could end up being a disaster. Not saying he will be.

Duncan = Donkey
07-06-2014, 10:34 PM
Chris Broussard @Chris_Broussard 1m

Cleveland has replaced Miami as my frontrunner to land LeBron James...

Id like to see him go back there.

JustinTime
07-06-2014, 10:35 PM
I really don't want James on Cleveland with Wiggins. I hope if he comes to Cleveland they trade Wiggins because there needs to be more rivalries in the NBA. It's really annoying how everyone is friends with each other in the NBA.

looka09
07-06-2014, 10:39 PM
Sam Amico @SamAmicoFSO 35m

Planes, trains, taxis ... It doesn't really matter. But I will say this: I get the impression it's showtime for the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Wow, it looks like it`s gonna happen for real

Arch Stanton
07-06-2014, 10:40 PM
@WojYahooNBA: In pursuit of max slot for LeBron James, Cavs searching for team to take Nets' Marcus Thornton in deal to unload Jarrett Jack, sources say.

Duncan = Donkey
07-06-2014, 10:42 PM
good, hope it happens in the next 24hrs

Uncle Chuck
07-06-2014, 10:45 PM
Bron wouldn't be wise to go to CLE with a max contract. That team isn't experienced enough to win in 2014-15.

Come 2015 - they have to pay Thompson; which they can't afford. Replace Varajeo; which they also can't afford.

Then come 2016, they have to pay Zeller and Waiters.

This ship would sink fast.

Rookie contracts are great, but they don't last long...

NBA_Starter
07-06-2014, 10:47 PM
wow! imagine a lineup of
kyrie
wiggins
lebron
thompson
varejo

#1 seed in the East.

shep33
07-06-2014, 10:48 PM
Honestly don't think that's a championship squad though. Teams out west would destroy them even with Bron

d00d
07-06-2014, 10:48 PM
#1 seed in the East.

will be another *** whipping in the Finals however

cssdmark
07-06-2014, 10:49 PM
His wife said the countdown to Akron started, this is going to happen. the vagina trumps all

Yes sir

shep33
07-06-2014, 10:51 PM
Interested to see if Gilbert will go into the tax over the next few years.

Duncan = Donkey
07-06-2014, 10:54 PM
Honestly don't think that's a championship squad though. Teams out west would destroy them even with Bron

100% correct. They will make the playoffs but they aint winning a title this year. Just not good enough.

amos1er
07-06-2014, 10:55 PM
His wife said the countdown to Akron started, this is going to happen. the vagina trumps all

Only if your a complete *****. Real men don't let women tell them how to live their lives. He who pays the bills should make the rules. If that ***** wants to live in Akron, let her get a job and figure it out. As long as he pays the bills, it's his call as long as he still has his balls... Metaphorically speaking of course.

JustinTime
07-06-2014, 10:55 PM
Bron wouldn't be wise to go to CLE with a max contract. That team isn't experienced enough to win in 2014-15.

Come 2015 - they have to pay Thompson; which they can't afford. Replace Varajeo; which they also can't afford.

Then come 2016, they have to pay Zeller and Waiters.

This ship would sink fast.

Rookie contracts are great, but they don't last long...

Thompson and James have the same agent so Thompson would probably sign for less if James was there.

Duncan = Donkey
07-06-2014, 10:58 PM
Thompson and James have the same agent so Thompson would probably sign for less if James was there.

Doubt it, a young guy wants as big as contract as possible.

5ass
07-06-2014, 10:58 PM
How would LeBron haters feel if it happened, and he wins a ring there?

cssdmark
07-06-2014, 10:58 PM
Only if your a complete *****. Real men don't let women tell them how to live their lives. He who pays the bills should make the rules. If that ***** wants to live in Akron, let her get a job and figure it out. As long as he pays the bills, it's his call as long as he still has his balls... Metaphorically speaking of course.. Lebron loves Cleveland, family is more important and they have a better squad with all those top five picks the NBA gave them.

Duncan = Donkey
07-06-2014, 10:59 PM
How would LeBron haters feel if it happened, and he wins a ring there?

Jumped a sinking ship to join a team on the rise would be a common thought i reckon.

Arch Stanton
07-06-2014, 11:05 PM
@SamAmicoFSO: I'm told, by multiple sources now, LeBron agent Rich Paul told Cavs he's impressed w what they've done and what they can still do to roster.

Uncle Chuck
07-06-2014, 11:05 PM
Thompson and James have the same agent so Thompson would probably sign for less if James was there.

come on... Thompson is going to get offered good money on the open market. An agent taking a lesser deal, takes less money. I think who is whos agent is irrelevant.

And for anyone who hasn't checked the numbers... IF Bron signs for the max, along with Kyre deal... The Cavs have roughly 72mil committed to the 2015 roster. On top of the 72mil, they need to resign their starting PF and C.

There is some goofiness attached to Brandon Haywood's cap figure, but let the rest of that sink in....

Arch Stanton
07-06-2014, 11:05 PM
@Probballdraft: LeBron James is going to return to the Cavs based on all the intel right now.

Dade County
07-06-2014, 11:09 PM
It's going to be so much hate on this forum, when the HEAT players come out publicly.

I hope all the anger is pointed at the media when everything is said and done.

Don't blame Melo, Pat Riley, Bosh...etc

Duncan = Donkey
07-06-2014, 11:09 PM
looks like its happening

Duncan = Donkey
07-06-2014, 11:11 PM
stephen a smith might have big news, just tweeted out he is coming on SC

Arch Stanton
07-06-2014, 11:11 PM
@WojYahooNBA: Longer James has gone w/ minimal contact, more unsettled Bosh/Wade have become on Heat future. "They're reading the tea leafs," source says.

Duncan = Donkey
07-06-2014, 11:12 PM
Stephen A Smith @stephenasmith 8m
My plan was to wait for @ESPN_FirstTake in the AM. But @SportsCenter has called me for duty. Here I come. Approx 11:30pm. Buckle Up!

Stephen A Smith @stephenasmith 6m
Or probably on a few minutes earlier.

Has to be LBJ related, no?

Aust
07-06-2014, 11:13 PM
@SamAmicoFSO: I'm told, by multiple sources now, LeBron agent Rich Paul told Cavs he's impressed w what they've done and what they can still do to roster.

Translation: You've sucked so badly for so long that talent has dropped into your incompetent laps. This situation seems too good for you to **** up, thus my client is intrigued.

Dade County
07-06-2014, 11:13 PM
stephen a smith might have big news, just tweeted out he is coming on SC


@WojYahooNBA: Longer James has gone w/ minimal contact, more unsettled Bosh/Wade have become on Heat future. "They're reading the tea leafs," source says.

:laugh2:

SPURSFAN1
07-06-2014, 11:15 PM
Watch the heat fans cry after lebron leaves. lol

NYSpirit1
07-06-2014, 11:18 PM
Watch the heat fans cry after lebron leaves. lol

They won't cry. They were never real to begin with. It's compromised of pure bandwagoners.

I guarantee you we'll only see a few after the dust settles. Cleveland is the only spot that would be deemed acceptable for LeBron to go to. It's bad..

But their roster is way better than anything the Heat will produce. Wiggins is a rookie and Irving is super young and will eventually both be elite for the next 10 years, thus giving LeBron a legit probably 5-6 years of prime, championship contention.

They won't win next year though, maybe not 2015-2016 either. Way too unexperienced and Wiggins is a rookie.

WITZ
07-06-2014, 11:19 PM
come on... Thompson is going to get offered good money on the open market. An agent taking a lesser deal, takes less money. I think who is whos agent is irrelevant.

And for anyone who hasn't checked the numbers... IF Bron signs for the max, along with Kyre deal... The Cavs have roughly 72mil committed to the 2015 roster. On top of the 72mil, they need to resign their starting PF and C.

There is some goofiness attached to Brandon Haywood's cap figure, but let the rest of that sink in....

Huh, that's a huge asset a 10 Million unguaranteed contract after next season.

utl768
07-06-2014, 11:20 PM
lebron is not leaving

his best chance for continued success is in miami and he knows that

xxplayerxx23
07-06-2014, 11:23 PM
lebron is not leaving

his best chance for continued success is in miami and he knows that

Yeah an increasly declining wade and Chris bosh sure best chance at winning

Arch Stanton
07-06-2014, 11:24 PM
@WojYahooNBA: Cavaliers want to unload Jarrett Jack's $6M annual deal to clear space, without touching Anderson Varejao -- a LeBron James favorite.

shep33
07-06-2014, 11:24 PM
If he wants to win out east, Miami is still the best choice for him

cssdmark
07-06-2014, 11:24 PM
Lebron to Cleveland and Melo to LA

meloman1592
07-06-2014, 11:25 PM
Do it lebron so I can support you again lol. 4 years of hating took it's toll on me

utl768
07-06-2014, 11:25 PM
Yeah an increasly declining wade and Chris bosh sure best chance at winning

bosh is still a top 10 player and wade even declined is still good enough as a third piece

ppl forget miami was in the nba finals this yr and act like they were a lottery team

shep33
07-06-2014, 11:27 PM
Miami could be the best team out East if Wade and Bron stay at a discounted price to allow them to get more talent around them

NYSpirit1
07-06-2014, 11:28 PM
bosh is still a top 10 player and wade even declined is still good enough as a third piece

ppl forget miami was in the nba finals this yr and act like they were a lottery team

Bosh was never a top 10 player, he's the same as he was four years ago, except his reputation took a major hit because of what he was asked to do on the Heat. Keep in mind he went from 24 and 11 in 2009-2010 to 16 and 6 this year in Miami in 2013-2014.

BigCityofDreams
07-06-2014, 11:28 PM
All of this has to be a smoke screen to get MIA to make a move right

meloman1592
07-06-2014, 11:28 PM
bosh is still a top 10 player and wade even declined is still good enough as a third piece

ppl forget miami was in the nba finals this yr and act like they were a lottery team

SIKE!!!!!! Good one bro

utl768
07-06-2014, 11:30 PM
Bosh was never a top 10 player, he's the same as he was four years ago, except his reputation took a major hit because of what he was asked to do on the Heat. Keep in mind he went from 24 and 11 in 2009-2010 to 16 and 6 this year in Miami in 2013-2014.

obviously his numbers are gonna take a hit when he is playing with lebron and wade and not with some scrubs in toronto

J4KOP99
07-06-2014, 11:30 PM
Stephen A Smith @stephenasmith 8m
My plan was to wait for @ESPN_FirstTake in the AM. But @SportsCenter has called me for duty. Here I come. Approx 11:30pm. Buckle Up!

Stephen A Smith @stephenasmith 6m
Or probably on a few minutes earlier.

Has to be LBJ related, no?

probably about bosh to houston

J4KOP99
07-06-2014, 11:31 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA 3m
Once Pat Riley has chance to lay out his progress in free agency to James soon, there could be better clarity on James' next step.

everyone can settle down

J4KOP99
07-06-2014, 11:33 PM
this implies that woj knows that Riles and James are planning on talking before anything else happens

Aust
07-06-2014, 11:36 PM
He's going to meet Pat Riley


Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 2m

RT @WindhorstESPN: LeBron James planning face-to- face meeting with Pat Riley in next few days, sources tell ESPN. USA Today first reported

cssdmark
07-06-2014, 11:37 PM
He did not say anything. That sucks.

WITZ
07-06-2014, 11:39 PM
Wonder what Rileys big selling point is going to be now that most Free agents have followed the big money instead of taking a paycut to play with them. Saw Riley & Spoelstra met with Marvin Williams today secret weapon maybe :laugh2:

J4KOP99
07-06-2014, 11:39 PM
He's going to meet Pat Riley

and there you have it

J4KOP99
07-06-2014, 11:40 PM
riles is probably slicking the hair back as we speak, in preparation for his big meeting.

NYSpirit1
07-06-2014, 11:40 PM
He's going to meet Pat Riley

This kills everything that's been going on today. He wants a progress report..

This has been an incredibly boring free agency period. All the top guys remain - LeBron, Melo, Wade, Bosh, Stephenson, Deng, Gasol, Bledsoe, Parsons, Pierce, Hayward, Monroe.

LeBron, Melo and Bosh are literally HIJACKING free agency to the point all the rest of the guys I just named don't have deals. I'm ready for free agency to get moving, it's been a week already.

prodigy
07-06-2014, 11:42 PM
Pat has failed to do anything at all to improve this team. So its gonna be a short meeting.

shep33
07-06-2014, 11:45 PM
I don't get what SAS is talking about. Hasn't Bosh already opted out?

So why not approach Melo already? They could've signed Melo the day Bosh opted out

Arch Stanton
07-06-2014, 11:47 PM
I don't get what SAS is talking about. Hasn't Bosh already opted out?

So why not approach Melo already? They could've signed Melo the day Bosh opted out

This is a good point. The Heat can sign Melo if they want to try and entice LeBron. I don't get the loyalty thing. They're staying loyal to Bosh but hope he's not back?

Jarvo
07-06-2014, 11:48 PM
He just need to make a choice already, No matter what he does he would still get hate. On one hand you got him going back to The Cavs but the hate will come from leaving The Heat because Wade looks "done" and because he couldn't get more help, And on the other because he stayed in Miami.

shep33
07-06-2014, 11:50 PM
This is a good point. The Heat can sign Melo if they want to try and entice LeBron. I don't get the loyalty thing. They're staying loyal to Bosh but hope he's not back?

Yeah, I don't get it. Haha, is LBJ trying to politely ask Bosh to get the hell out of South Beach?

Doesn't add up.

prodigy
07-06-2014, 11:52 PM
Bron wouldn't be wise to go to CLE with a max contract. That team isn't experienced enough to win in 2014-15.

Come 2015 - they have to pay Thompson; which they can't afford. Replace Varajeo; which they also can't afford.

Then come 2016, they have to pay Zeller and Waiters.

This ship would sink fast.

Rookie contracts are great, but they don't last long...

1. I get some experience helps but I think its also overrated. Lebron makes almost any team contenders, remember if cavs get lebron, love will most likely follow.

2. Thompson would most likely be moved for love but if not he is a cavs drafted player meaning we can go over Cap to resign our own.

3. Same with Zeller and waiters lol

4. Rookie contracts are great because you can spend that money on lebron and others and still have bird rights :)

Arch Stanton
07-06-2014, 11:54 PM
Yeah, I don't get it. Haha, is LBJ trying to politely ask Bosh to get the hell out of South Beach?

Doesn't add up.

If Miami wants LeBron back then they should sign Bosh and Melo.

cssdmark
07-06-2014, 11:56 PM
That was anticlimactic. Goodnight.

3ballbomber
07-07-2014, 12:05 AM
Lebron is going to flee

Uncle Chuck
07-07-2014, 12:08 AM
1. I get some experience helps but I think its also overrated. Lebron makes almost any team contenders, remember if cavs get lebron, love will most likely follow.

2. Thompson would most likely be moved for love but if not he is a cavs drafted player meaning we can go over Cap to resign our own.

3. Same with Zeller and waiters lol

4. Rookie contracts are great because you can spend that money on lebron and others and still have bird rights :)

Well experience is definitely not overrated. Durant, Harden, Ibaka, Westbrook almost got swept by Miami. imagine those lineups this year...

And have you done the math behind signing all those players? or even a trade for love? Go over the cap all you want, but you're talking serious luxury cap issues in the near future. I don't Gilbert is on the Prokerov level.

colinskik
07-07-2014, 12:08 AM
riles is probably slicking the hair back as we speak, in preparation for his big meeting.

That **** stays forever slicked backed. What you talking about?

lamzoka
07-07-2014, 12:19 AM
Riley swept the 2010 free agency, but he's failing miserably on this one. He done nothing to convince LeBron to resign. Why didn't he scheduled a meeting with Melo.

If LeBron goes to the Cavs and the dinosaur goes to the rockets. They will be the new sixers. Losing 20 games in the row and ****.

cssdmark
07-07-2014, 12:29 AM
Riley swept the 2010 free agency, but he's failing miserably on this one. He done nothing to convince LeBron to resign. Why didn't he scheduled a meeting with Melo.

If LeBron goes to the Cavs and the dinosaur goes to the rockets. They will be the new sixers. Losing 20 games in the row and ****.. The dinosaur? Wtf. Lol.

cssdmark
07-07-2014, 12:30 AM
Reports say Bosh said he will not leave unless Lebron leaves first.

mightybosstone
07-07-2014, 12:31 AM
This kills everything that's been going on today. He wants a progress report..

This has been an incredibly boring free agency period. All the top guys remain - LeBron, Melo, Wade, Bosh, Stephenson, Deng, Gasol, Bledsoe, Parsons, Pierce, Hayward, Monroe.

LeBron, Melo and Bosh are literally HIJACKING free agency to the point all the rest of the guys I just named don't have deals. I'm ready for free agency to get moving, it's been a week already.
I can't stand reading ignorant posts like this. You're acting like they're trying to decide what movie to watch on Netflix. This is their lives. These decisions impact not only the next 4-5 years of their lives and their families, but also their career, their legacies and their livelihoods. These decisions could be the difference between winning titles and not making the playoffs and between tens of millions of dollars.

If you were in the same situation, you wouldn't just make a decision in a couple of hours. You would test the waters, weigh the pros and cons and make an educated decision. That doesn't even take into consideration that every player is waiting to see what every other player is going to do, so you have multiple guys trying to make huge decisions about their lives all at the same time that are directly impacting one another.

Show a little patience for once.

mightybosstone
07-07-2014, 12:34 AM
Personally, I think it makes sense for Lebron to head to Cleveland from not only a legacy perspective, but from a winning perspective. Returning to this current Miami team gives you another 1-2 year window tops and it's likely a road to nowhere. While Cleveland hasn't been particularly well run the last few years, adding Lebron to that roster probably makes it every bit as balanced (if not moreso) than the Heat and they'll have room to grow. If Cleveland could somewhere then make a deal for Love, they'd be sitting pretty with the best roster in the East for the next 4-5 years.

But I'll admit I've got my own selfish reasons. If Lebron leaves for Cleveland, I'm seriously hoping Bosh wises up and heads to Houston. He's exactly what the Rockets need in every sense of the word and he immediately would make them one of the 2-3 best teams in the West with San Antonio and OKC if not the top overall squad.

cssdmark
07-07-2014, 12:36 AM
This is a good point. The Heat can sign Melo if they want to try and entice LeBron. I don't get the loyalty thing. They're staying loyal to Bosh but hope he's not back?

If they do not show loyalty after what he his done what will other players think about that so called family atmosphere in a Miami?

beliges
07-07-2014, 12:39 AM
Personally, I think it makes sense for Lebron to head to Cleveland from not only a legacy perspective, but from a winning perspective. Returning to this current Miami team gives you another 1-2 year window tops and it's likely a road to nowhere. While Cleveland hasn't been particularly well run the last few years, adding Lebron to that roster probably makes it every bit as balanced (if not moreso) than the Heat and they'll have room to grow. If Cleveland could somewhere then make a deal for Love, they'd be sitting pretty with the best roster in the East for the next 4-5 years.

But I'll admit I've got my own selfish reasons. If Lebron leaves for Cleveland, I'm seriously hoping Bosh wises up and heads to Houston. He's exactly what the Rockets need in every sense of the word and he immediately would make them one of the 2-3 best teams in the West with San Antonio and OKC if not the top overall squad.

So you're saying it's ok for lebron to once again jump ship to a much better situation? As for a "legacy perspective", don't you think it's best for LeBron to stay on Miami and allow his franchise to build a team around him?

JustinTime
07-07-2014, 12:40 AM
Remember the day when the Captain was supposed to go down with the ship? When Lebron's ship sink he jumps on the life raft and boards another ship until his original one has it's holes fixed.

XpLiCiTT
07-07-2014, 12:50 AM
I just can't wrap my mind around LeBron playing with Dan Gilbert as owner, that'd be too crazy after all that **** he talked after LeBron left.

prodigy
07-07-2014, 01:10 AM
1. I get some experience helps but I think its also overrated. Lebron makes almost any team contenders, remember if cavs get lebron, love will most likely follow.

2. Thompson would most likely be moved for love but if not he is a cavs drafted player meaning we can go over Cap to resign our own.

3. Same with Zeller and waiters lol

4. Rookie contracts are great because you can spend that money on lebron and others and still have bird rights :)

Well experience is definitely not overrated. Durant, Harden, Ibaka, Westbrook almost got swept by Miami. imagine those lineups this year...

And have you done the math behind signing all those players? or even a trade for love? Go over the cap all you want, but you're talking serious luxury cap issues in the near future. I don't Gilbert is on the Prokerov level.

Ummm, gilbert is no stranger to the luxury tax do some homework man.

Dade County
07-07-2014, 01:34 AM
This is a good point. The Heat can sign Melo if they want to try and entice LeBron. I don't get the loyalty thing. They're staying loyal to Bosh but hope he's not back?

Don't think small, Pat has shown you that he goes after the whole pie. All of them discounted ...lmao


Riley swept the 2010 free agency, but he's failing miserably on this one. He done nothing to convince LeBron to resign. Why didn't he scheduled a meeting with Melo.
.

They don't want to be accused of colluding again... That meeting might come after Pat meets with Lbj; then the fun begins.

jp611
07-07-2014, 04:07 AM
:laugh2: :laugh: :laugh2:

You guys really this gullible?

The Three Stooges are playing the league... AGAIN.

BALLER R
07-07-2014, 08:08 AM
:laugh2: :laugh: :laugh2:

You guys really this gullible?

The Three Stooges are playing the league... AGAIN.

I don't think so. I think Lebron hold all the cards this time. Wade has no leverage this time around.

prodigy
07-07-2014, 08:22 AM
Why does pat Riley get so much credit for putting big 3 together? Lol we all knpw it was lebron, wade and bosh who came together to win ships. All pat did was free up the cap.

prodigy
07-07-2014, 08:24 AM
:laugh2: :laugh: :laugh2:

You guys really this gullible?

The Three Stooges are playing the league... AGAIN.

They all may end up going back, but they def not playing anyone. Wades at end of career and lebron knows that.

d00d
07-07-2014, 08:25 AM
Wade is ****, Bosh is a 3 point shooter, noone else signing up, why would he go back?

RazzleDazzle
07-07-2014, 08:40 AM
So you're saying it's ok for lebron to once again jump ship to a much better situation? As for a "legacy perspective", don't you think it's best for LeBron to stay on Miami and allow his franchise to build a team around him?

the only team he's really allowed to go back, for all your legacy-crap thinkers, is Cleveland, and finish his career there, mind you if Gilbert smartens up this time around and doesn't employ dumbasses, like himself, in upper management, Cleveland should be fine.

Kenny Powders
07-07-2014, 08:43 AM
What I don't get that if they decide to go back they will have no supporting cast.

thenaj17
07-07-2014, 10:16 AM
Kyrie, Wiggins, Varejao, Tristan Thompson, Waiters, and Jarrett Jack are a far better roster than Cole, Wade, and Bosh. They are also the SAME PRICE as Wade, Cole, and Bosh. And btw, David Blatt can actually coach.

Wiggins & Blatt haven't even played/coached in the NBA yet. Kyrie isn't even that good. Both Bosh and Wade are far better than anything on that Cavs roster and Ray Allen is an excellent 6th man.

You try to make it sound like Varejao, Waiters and Thomson mean squat, when in fact they don't

tr3ymill3r
07-07-2014, 10:36 AM
Why would LeBron opt out NOW to go back to Cleveland? He has at least 2 more contracts in the NBA, so why sign with the Cavs now only to have to leave again in 3-4 years? He should sign a 3 year deal with Miami or Houston then sign with Cleveland to finish his career.

ottograham14
07-07-2014, 10:39 AM
WindhorstESPN: For 4 years, Dan Gilbert's letter after LeBron's decision has been on team website. It appears it was removed today: t.co/O256mqVtNs

d00d
07-07-2014, 10:41 AM
How LeBron James' agent has given Cavaliers hope of King's homecoming

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-lebron-james--agent-has-given-cavaliers-hope-of-king-s-homecoming-082339828.html




At the urging of LeBron James' agent, the Cleveland Cavaliers are pursuing a maximum contract salary slot to bring back the free-agent superstar, league sources told Yahoo Sports.

Rich Paul, the president of Klutch Sports, has been funneling belief into the organization that the Cavaliers are in strong position to lure James from the Miami Heat, sources told Yahoo Sports.

For years, Paul has confided to people that bringing back James to Cleveland has been something of a mission for him, and he's encouraging Cavaliers officials to offer no restraint in the recruitment of James, sources said.

The Phoenix Suns remain determined to make a case to James, offering an excellent core of young players, a chance to bring a second max star with him, but everyone's at the mercy of Paul's agenda now. He's running James' free agency, and getting through to James won't happen without his childhood pal-turned-agent.

Paul will be joining James for a sit-down meeting with Miami president Pat Riley early this week, when there could come more clarity on James' future with the Heat. Riley has been recruiting free agents to join Miami, but has been limited in salary cap space to make competitive offers and limited in the ability to promise players they'll get to play with James.

View photo
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LeBron James is expected to soon meet with Heat president Pat Riley. (AP)

LeBron James is expected to soon meet with Heat president Pat Riley. (AP)
"LeBron is the ultimate recruiter, but he hasn't been any part of this process," a league source tied to the Heat's recruiting efforts told Yahoo Sports. "The first question they all ask is the same: 'Do I get to hear from LeBron? What's he going to do?' "

The fact James hasn't been contributing to the Heat's pursuit of a supporting cast has troubled some and left them wondering: Just how committed is James to re-joining Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade with the Heat?

For the Cavaliers, the shedding of contracts to create salary-cap space isn't a tremendous risk. For James, a four-time MVP and two-time NBA champion, the stakes are far higher. If Paul gets up the hopes of the franchise and Northeast Ohio without delivering James' return, Paul risks playing a part in turning James into a villain all over again.

Nevertheless, the Cavaliers have little choice but to dutifully make the moves necessary to make James an offer. The biggest obstacle remains unloading the contract of Jarrett Jack. The Cavaliers have found a landing spot for Jack and his $6.2 million annual salary in the Brooklyn Nets, but only if the Cavs can find a third team to take on Brooklyn's Marcus Thornton, league sources told Yahoo Sports.

Cleveland is offering Thornton and future draft considerations as incentive to absorb his $8.7 million expiring contract, sources said. The Cavaliers need to unload more contracts and have made 2013 first-round pick Sergey Karasev, among others, available in deals, sources said.

The Cavaliers have a young core of Kyrie Irving and No. 1 overall pick Andrew Wiggins, whom general manager David Griffin has gone out of his way to call a shooting guard clearing the way for James to take over small forward. For Paul, the return of James would give the agent immense leverage in rookie contract extension talks for forward Tristan Thompson. The Cavaliers could have no choice but to pay Thompson a serviceable young forward far above market price as a giveback for Paul's part in James' potential return to the Cavaliers.

Cleveland will work to sign James, but, failing that, they'll try to divide the cap space among second-tier free agents including candidates Channing Frye and Trevor Ariza whom they believe can help get them to the playoffs, sources said.

Another Cavaliers option remains signing Utah restricted free agent Gordon Hayward to an offer sheet, although the organization expects it would offer him less than a max contract, sources said. Nevertheless, the Jazz plan to match a Cavs offer and keep him, sources said.

For now, the Cavaliers await the next directive out of Rich Paul, and perhaps will soon find out where an agent's agenda meets a superstar's intent.

Sadds The Gr8
07-07-2014, 10:55 AM
Still think this is just creating a story cuz everyone's bored. I'd be shocked if he actually went back.

mjt20mik
07-07-2014, 10:55 AM
With all this hype, if he doesn't go back I don't think CLE will ever feel the same way about him.

d00d
07-07-2014, 10:59 AM
if he doesn't go back, Lebron just opened every single scab that had somewhat healed over the last 4 years. the pain will be brand new for them all.

Jarvo
07-07-2014, 11:05 AM
if he doesn't go back, Lebron just opened every single scab that had somewhat healed over the last 4 years. the pain will be brand new for them all.

How? He didn't say anything yet, It's all rumors and hear say.

ottograham14
07-07-2014, 11:06 AM
Realistic Cavs fans will be just fine if he doesn't come back. Yes it would be great if he came back but when is the last time Cleveland has ever been this relevant?

I don't feel any scabs or wounds being re-opened but instead a guy that sees a promising at least on paper young roster and is showing some interests in joining them. Obviously the main selling point is still coming home but even him being somewhat serious about returning is at least showing that the Cavs are doing something right and that possibly they have the right guys in place right now that are making at least the Heat sweat about it.

d00d
07-07-2014, 11:06 AM
How? He didn't say anything yet, It's all rumors and hear say.


if what Woj wrote about his agent is true, then that is enough reason to get their hopes sky high