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teddygreen17
07-02-2014, 01:14 PM
Sports Whispers ‏@SportsWhispers 7m
#Cavs have offered a max contract (4 years, roughly $60M) to Gordon Hayward. If he signs the offer sheet, #Jazz will have 3 days to match

Answer: No.

mjt20mik
07-02-2014, 01:16 PM
He put up great numbers on a bad team.

Lakers + Giants
07-02-2014, 01:22 PM
No he didnt, last year he put up bad numbers on a horrible team.

Minimal
07-02-2014, 01:23 PM
omg just no, what the hell are cavs thinking...no wonder their franchise gets screwed over and over again.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
07-02-2014, 01:26 PM
Cavs cant be that dumb

Crackadalic
07-02-2014, 01:26 PM
#lockout2017

cheetos185
07-02-2014, 01:27 PM
Wow that much for a guy whose been in the league for 3 years...

king4day
07-02-2014, 01:27 PM
Glad it wasn't the Suns who will overpay him....instead we'll overpay Bledsoe

mjt20mik
07-02-2014, 01:28 PM
No he didnt, last year he put up bad numbers on a horrible team.

16 5 5 are bad numbers?

WITZ
07-02-2014, 01:28 PM
No hes not ,but look at the contract some of these other lower tier players are getting . So i'm not surprised he got paid.

THE MTL
07-02-2014, 01:29 PM
Horrible move. 15 million per year for Haywood? Then another 18 mil per year for kyrie. That's half your cap

mjt20mik
07-02-2014, 01:31 PM
Horrible move. 15 million per year for Haywood? Then another 18 mil per year for kyrie. That's half your cap

Well here's to Cleveland sucking another year. 1 pick in 4 out of 5 years anyone?

teddygreen17
07-02-2014, 01:40 PM
Glad it wasn't the Suns who will overpay him....instead we'll overpay Bledsoe

Yeah, Bledsoe signing will be a problem. But IMO he's worth more. Keeping him with Dragic is a major problem for the league..Though I'm not sure he wants to keep sharing the PG spotlight with him. Both are very good. I wish the Knicks could get either one of them.

gatkins11
07-02-2014, 01:40 PM
Glad it wasn't the Suns who will overpay him....instead we'll overpay Bledsoe

Of the two, Bledsoe would be my choice to overpay.

teddygreen17
07-02-2014, 01:43 PM
Well here's to Cleveland sucking another year. 1 pick in 4 out of 5 years anyone?

Jazz might actually match..but if CLV gets him then, their current SG Dion Waiters is gone (or he better accept bench role ASAP). Maybe they move Haywood to SF, but probably more suited at SG.

ManRam
07-02-2014, 01:44 PM
16 5 5 are bad numbers?

He took a step backwards. Was quite a bit more inefficient. His three point shooting really dropped too.

I love Gordon...he's one of the 2-3 players I'd be OK with the Magic actually making a splash for. But I wouldn't say he had a "great" year last year. He can be much better...he has been much better. His counting numbers went up because he got more minutes, but he set career lows in TS% and eFG%.


It's probably an overpay based on how he's played, but I hope Cleveland does it. I think he fits in great on that team. I'd root for them!

MrfadeawayJB
07-02-2014, 01:47 PM
Way too much for him. Maybe closer to 12 mil but Max is ludicrous

ottograham14
07-02-2014, 01:50 PM
He took a step backwards. Was quite a bit more inefficient. His three point shooting really dropped too.

I love Gordon...he's one of the 2-3 players I'd be OK with the Magic actually making a splash for. But I wouldn't say he had a "great" year last year. He can be much better...he has been much better. His counting numbers went up because he got more minutes, but he set career lows in TS% and eFG%.


It's probably an overpay based on how he's played, but I hope Cleveland does it. I think he fits in great on that team. I'd root for them!

He definitely took a step back last year efficient wise and overall percentages but a lot might have done with him being the main focus of the offense last year after Millsap and Jefferson leaving.

As a Cavs fan I think its a lot of coin for the 24 year old that isn't an All-Star but a very good 3rd option with the ability to possibly excel as a 2nd option. Still you don't max out those type of players.

Something has to be in the works though with either Jarrett Jack or Dion being moved for a big as they would just have an abundance of Combo Guards/Wings if they added Hayward with the current constructed roster.

BTW your Magic did get a Gordon, Ben that is.

Aust
07-02-2014, 01:52 PM
Well here's to Cleveland sucking another year. 1 pick in 4 out of 5 years anyone?

I'd stop watching the NBA. Absolute horse ****. They shouldn't touch a top 10 pick for the next 10 years.

Hennywtf
07-02-2014, 01:58 PM
If there gonna htrow money at Gordon Hayward why not throw money at Chandler Parsons

king4day
07-02-2014, 02:00 PM
Horrible move. 15 million per year for Haywood? Then another 18 mil per year for kyrie. That's half your cap

Part of the problem is getting stars to come to Cleveland. This deal, IMO, is hinging more on the potential he will improve enough to be a solid sidekick for Irving.

It's an overpay but if Utah doesn't match, I have to say, it's not the worst thing for the Cavs. They'd have a really nice young nucleus.

0nekhmer
07-02-2014, 02:04 PM
This guy isn't even a consistent scorer, let alone leader on a ****** team. These contracts are just making my boy demar derozans 8.5mil/year cobtract look like gold.

Nikeman
07-02-2014, 02:06 PM
Hayword/Wiggins/Irving

Pretty solid and versatile back-court, the Cavs just need a quality post player and some depth and who knows where they go.

I guess with them offering this deal to Hayword, that takes them out of the LeBron sweepstakes officially.

I thought they would at least wait to make sure LBJ was 100% signed with Miami first.

Nikeman
07-02-2014, 02:28 PM
Hell if I am Cleveland, instead of that contract, I give Lance Stephenson a huge deal if they have to pick.

Last season alone, Stephenson evolved into a more efficient player, shot 49% vs Gordon Hayword at 41%, and Stephenson is a better rebounder, better play-maker, more athletic, and even a year younger.

Stephenson is a better defender and a Kyrie/Wiggins/Stephenson back-court could be deadly.

ManRam
07-02-2014, 02:31 PM
Part of the problem is getting stars to come to Cleveland. This deal, IMO, is hinging more on the potential he will improve enough to be a solid sidekick for Irving.

It's an overpay but if Utah doesn't match, I have to say, it's not the worst thing for the Cavs. They'd have a really nice young nucleus.

Yeah. You aren't paying guys based on what they've done, you're paying them for what you think they'll do over the span of that contract. Gordon assuredly will approve and could very well be worth the money being discussed. And the Cleveland factor does mean that sometimes they have to overpay a tad anyways. I think it's a good move, even at that much money.

JNA17
07-02-2014, 02:37 PM
He put up great numbers on a bad team.

Great numbers? Jodie Meeks did better than him. :laugh:

Hayward: 16 points on 41% FG, 30% from Three. ORtg 104 to his DRtg 111. 16.2 PER

He is so freaking overrated it's not even funny.

Yes Cavs, please max him and once again prove how much of a joke of an organization you are and why you along with every Cleveland sports team will never win a title in the near future.

And since people laugh at Jodie Meeks's 6 mill per contract, here is the comparison:

Meeks: 15.7 points on 46% FG, 40% from Three, 112 ORtg to his DRtg 112. Near 15 PER.

And both were on bad teams so you can't even make an argument about more opportunities or what not. :laugh:

Hawkeye15
07-02-2014, 02:44 PM
Cleveland would be insane to give him a max deal. Utah would be insane to match it if they did. Hayward is alright, but nothing more than a barely above average starter on a team worth a crap. It would be a criminal overpay to give him $15 million per year.

Hawkeye15
07-02-2014, 02:45 PM
if the Cavs sign him, and suck again (likely), and get the #1 pick again, I might be done with basketball. Rewarding arguably the most inept franchise over the past 20 years over and over again is ridiculous.

JNA17
07-02-2014, 02:48 PM
if the Cavs sign him, and suck again (likely), and get the #1 pick again, I might be done with basketball. Rewarding arguably the most inept franchise over the past 20 years over and over again is ridiculous.

I would just fix the lottery just to prevent the Cavs from ever going near the top 5 draft picks ever again. That franchise has become such a waste of space when a team like the Sonics get booted out. :pity:

GeekInThePink
07-02-2014, 02:53 PM
How exactly would the Cavs likely suck if they signed him Hawkeye?

Irving
Wiggins
Hayward
Thompson
Varejao
6th: Waiters

If they have anything resembling a bench (which they should with Zeller, Bennett and Jack already in the fold) I see no reason how that team could be last barring major injury.

JNA17
07-02-2014, 02:56 PM
How exactly would the Cavs likely suck if they signed him Hawkeye?

Irving
Wiggins
Hayward
Thompson
Varejao
6th: Waiters

If they have anything resembling a bench (which they should with Zeller, Bennett and Jack already in the fold) I see no reason how that team could be last barring major injury.

Easy: Irving and Varejao get injured again, Wiggins turns out to be a bust like Bennett, and Waiters will probably get traded for whatever.

If the Cavs couldn't make the playoffs last season, this season won't be much different unless Wiggins explodes.

Hawkeye15
07-02-2014, 03:00 PM
How exactly would the Cavs likely suck if they signed him?

Irving
Wiggins
Hayward
Thompson
Varejao
6th: Waiters

If they have anything resembling a bench (which they should with Zeller, Bennett and Jack already in the fold) I see no reason how that team could be last barring major injury.

they are likely a playoff team with that roster, but it is the east afterall.

Point is, they would have less cap flexibility with that roster with a lot of young players coming up for new deals over the next 3 years, and unless Wiggins is the real deal, they have no chance at anything important with that roster. Is Varejao ever healthy? And they need to replace him or resign him after this year.

I get that small market teams need to overpay FA's to bring them onboard. But why not throw that money at Chandler Parsons, or hell, even Greg Monroe and bring TT off the bench.

I am probably being a bit hard on Hayward, you figure his 3 point percentage will rise after last years horrible year, but giving him a max deal just makes me throw up a little bit.

Regarding the draft, I think most people are just pissed that not only they landed the #1 pick ahead of like 8 teams they needed to jump or whatever, but that they KEEP getting it.

ottograham14
07-02-2014, 03:02 PM
if the Cavs sign him, and suck again (likely), and get the #1 pick again, I might be done with basketball. Rewarding arguably the most inept franchise over the past 20 years over and over again is ridiculous.

Bill Simmons is that you? Saying that the NBA is rewarding the Cavs too is just laughable. The #1 pick they had in 2011 was from a trade from the Clippers where the Cavs took back Baron Davis' awful contract and an unprotected first round pick that turned into #1 where the pick had 1.7% chance just like this year. Smart move by them. Last year they were one of the top 3 worse teams so I wouldn't call them really getting rewarded in 2013 nor was having the #1 pick in that awful draft rewarding. This year they had the best Winning % outside of the Suns of Non-Lottery teams in the 2nd half (showing they weren't tanking) but instead, yes teams that were noticeably tanking should have been rewarded.

The most inept franchise in the past 20 years. Is that a joke? Are you a Kings, Bucks, Knicks fan? Oh wait you are probably a Wolves fan. How bout your team gets stranglehold by the best player in the world to do whatever he wants in hopes that he stays where he won't actually make a long-term commitment making it harder to have players join him in Cleveland and then having to replace him and an entire team built around him (you can call that stupid all you want as I won't argue but when you have that talent in a sport where 1 player can make that much of a difference you sadly have to cater to them sometimes).

I'm not going to disagree that giving Hayward a max is not the greatest decision, but your comment is just ridiculous and very asinine.

Vinylman
07-02-2014, 03:06 PM
why are all the analytics guys on here questioning David Griffin... he obviously knows what he is doing :rolleyes:

Hawkeye15
07-02-2014, 03:07 PM
Bill Simmons is that you? Saying that the NBA is rewarding the Cavs too is just laughable. The #1 pick they had in 2011 was from a trade from the Clippers where the Cavs took back Baron Davis' awful contract and an unprotected first round pick that turned into #1 where the pick had 1.7% chance just like this year. Smart move by them. Last year they were one of the top 3 worse teams so I wouldn't call them really getting rewarded in 2013 nor was having the #1 pick in that awful draft rewarding. This year they had the best Winning % outside of the Suns of Non-Lottery teams in the 2nd half (showing they weren't tanking) but instead, yes teams that were noticeably tanking should have been rewarded.

The most inept franchise in the past 20 years. Is that a joke? Are you a Kings, Bucks, Knicks fan? Oh wait you are probably a Wolves fan. How bout your team gets stranglehold by the best player in the world to do whatever he wants in hopes that he stays where he won't actually make a long-term commitment making it harder to have players join him in Cleveland and then having to replace him and an entire team built around him (you can call that stupid all you want as I won't argue but when you have that talent in a sport where 1 player can make that much of a difference you sadly have to cater to them sometimes).

I'm not going to disagree that giving Hayward a max is not the greatest decision, but your comment is just ridiculous and very asinine.

you can call it what you like. When fans of all other 29 teams see the Cavs get this many #1 picks, so close together, it pisses us off. Big time. Cleveland has no business getting a top pick for a very long time.

Cleveland had the best player since Michael Jordan (another #1 pick), and was not able to give him help at all. That is inept. Very inept. Since the fall of the 90's team (Brad, Mark, Craig, etc), the Cavs have been inept. Landing LeBron James in the draft doesn't make your team smart, it makes them lucky.

My Wolves are very inept. But we sure as hell haven't been given the fortunes the Cavs had to work with.

Arch Stanton
07-02-2014, 03:07 PM
they are likely a playoff team with that roster, but it is the east afterall.

Point is, they would have less cap flexibility with that roster with a lot of young players coming up for new deals over the next 3 years, and unless Wiggins is the real deal, they have no chance at anything important with that roster. Is Varejao ever healthy? And they need to replace him or resign him after this year.

I get that small market teams need to overpay FA's to bring them onboard. But why not throw that money at Chandler Parsons, or hell, even Greg Monroe and bring TT off the bench.

I am probably being a bit hard on Hayward, you figure his 3 point percentage will rise after last years horrible year, but giving him a max deal just makes me throw up a little bit.

Regarding the draft, I think most people are just pissed that not only they landed the #1 pick ahead of like 8 teams they needed to jump or whatever, but that they KEEP getting it.

I'm not sure Parsons would be much of an upgrade over Hayward. He plays in an uptempo offense so his numbers might be a bit juiced. Not saying Hayward is worth that kind of $, but like already been expressed CLE has to overpay for FA. Regarding the #1 pick, they didn't do anything other than luck out on getting them. Even last year they tried not to tank and still got it. I'm not sure why you are angry with them? Unless your suggesting it's rigged. Which seems a bit silly.

Hawkeye15
07-02-2014, 03:11 PM
I'm not sure Parsons would be much of an upgrade over Hayward. He plays in an uptempo offense so his numbers might be a bit juiced. Not saying Hayward is worth that kind of $, but like already been expressed CLE has to overpay for FA. Regarding the #1 pick, they didn't do anything other than luck out on getting them. Even last year they tried not to tank and still got it. I'm not sure why you are angry with them? Unless your suggesting it's rigged. Which seems a bit silly.

rigged? No. But as a Wolves fan (we have never moved up once, and moved down 17 times), it literally pisses me off to see the Cavs continue to get the #1 pick. And I am not alone, you have been around here long enough to know that.

Parsons is a defensive upgrade for sure, and as I stated above, IF Hayward can return to that 40ish % from three, their offense is fairly equal.

WITZ
07-02-2014, 03:12 PM
they are likely a playoff team with that roster, but it is the east afterall.

Point is, they would have less cap flexibility with that roster with a lot of young players coming up for new deals over the next 3 years, and unless Wiggins is the real deal, they have no chance at anything important with that roster. Is Varejao ever healthy? And they need to replace him or resign him after this year.

I get that small market teams need to overpay FA's to bring them onboard. But why not throw that money at Chandler Parsons, or hell, even Greg Monroe and bring TT off the bench.

I am probably being a bit hard on Hayward, you figure his 3 point percentage will rise after last years horrible year, but giving him a max deal just makes me throw up a little bit.

Regarding the draft, I think most people are just pissed that not only they landed the #1 pick ahead of like 8 teams they needed to jump or whatever, but that they KEEP getting it.

What exactly makes Parsons better again because besides the shooting percentages which are helped out by Harden and Howard getting attention i don't see much difference btw yes its a dumb contract & they have really only won it these last 2 years its not their fault the clippers were to stupid to put protection on their pick. But i guess we should just reward the teams that are tanking because that sounds like a better option.

Melo15
07-02-2014, 03:15 PM
Sources telling me this #Cavs making max offer to Hayward is fantasy. Sides may just be in get acquainted stage. No offer sheet made and...


(Hayward part 2) definitely not max. No decision or specifics have been determined per Hayward #Cavs

-John Telich

Hawkeye15
07-02-2014, 03:17 PM
What exactly makes Parsons better again because besides the shooting percentages which are helped out by Harden and Howard getting attention i don't see much difference btw yes its a dumb contract & they have really only won it these last 2 years its not their fault the clippers were to stupid to put protection on their pick. But i guess we should just reward the teams that are tanking because that sounds like a better option.

Parsons is a better defender for one.

The worst teams should get the top picks under the current draft structure. I have said before we need to change the structure, but with the way it is, no team should jump a bunch of teams to get the #1 pick. And I fully admit my opinion is based off my own team constantly getting ****ed over in the draft.

JNA17
07-02-2014, 03:33 PM
Parsons is a better defender for one.

The worst teams should get the top picks under the current draft structure. I have said before we need to change the structure, but with the way it is, no team should jump a bunch of teams to get the #1 pick. And I fully admit my opinion is based off my own team constantly getting ****ed over in the draft.

I would fix the Lottery to this:

Every team in the top 12 has an equal chance at getting the number 1 pick, and so on.

Basically, make the lottery an actual lottery. Oh and one more change:

Except the Cavs, because **** the Cavs. They get the 30th pick forever.

Arch Stanton
07-02-2014, 03:35 PM
I would fix the Lottery to this:

Every team in the top 12 has an equal chance at getting the number 1 pick, and so on.

Basically, make the lottery an actual lottery. Oh and one more change:

Except the Cavs, because **** the Cavs. They get the 30th pick forever.

Yeah that's rational. Keep hating fool!

JNA17
07-02-2014, 03:38 PM
Yeah that's rational. Keep hating fool!

The Cavs organization and the city of Cleveland is not even worth my hate. :laugh2:

Arch Stanton
07-02-2014, 03:42 PM
The Cavs organization and the city of Cleveland is not even worth my hate. :laugh2:

Good, so that means you can go away now.

Vinylman
07-02-2014, 03:44 PM
worse record works in every other sport... the NBA letting outliers like Cleveland and the clip pick to have a chance at number one is absurd. As for the tanking... it is done in every sport... maybe not to the extent that it is in the NBA but it is done... whether it's to get an easier schedule the following year (NFL) or to get a better prospect (all other leagues) it happens

The tanking could be fixed by simply implementing a hard cap and non-fully guaranteed contracts... the reasons teams have to go FULL rebuild is because they invariably have contracts they can't dump when they want to rebuild through FA... The parity in the NFL proves that a hard cap is the best model FOR THE FANS!!! That is why very few franchises in the NBA ever truly compete for a championship

Hawkeye15
07-02-2014, 03:46 PM
I would fix the Lottery to this:

Every team in the top 12 has an equal chance at getting the number 1 pick, and so on.

Basically, make the lottery an actual lottery. Oh and one more change:

Except the Cavs, because **** the Cavs. They get the 30th pick forever.

I am as pissed about the Cavs continuing to load up on top picks as anyone, but that seems a BIT harsh....

I like a tier system.

Worst 3 teams have an equal chance.
Teams 4-10 have an equal chance, but land in that area no matter what (picks 4-10).
Teams 11-14 have an equal chance, but land in that area no matter what

Tanking will never be stopped, unless you do some radical change that is very unfair to bad teams. While I would never say reward bad teams, you sure can't punish them either.

JNA17
07-02-2014, 03:47 PM
Good, so that means you can go away now.

Make me. ;)

WITZ
07-02-2014, 03:48 PM
The Cavs organization and the city of Cleveland is not even worth my hate. :laugh2:

All 5 of your post in this thread say otherwise :laugh:

Arch Stanton
07-02-2014, 03:48 PM
Make me. ;)

Okay, so we are worth it! Happy trolling!

JNA17
07-02-2014, 03:50 PM
I am as pissed about the Cavs continuing to load up on top picks as anyone, but that seems a BIT harsh....

I like a tier system.

Worst 3 teams have an equal chance.
Teams 4-10 have an equal chance, but land in that area no matter what (picks 4-10).
Teams 11-14 have an equal chance, but land in that area no matter what

Tanking will never be stopped, unless you do some radical change that is very unfair to bad teams. While I would never say reward bad teams, you sure can't punish them either.

Well part of the reason why I would like to see the twelve worst teams have an equal chance at the 1st pick is so tanking at least is LESS of an issue.

It will still happen regardless, but not to a point where like the "76ers where they just trade every relevant player they have to tank.

JNA17
07-02-2014, 03:51 PM
All 5 of your post in this thread say otherwise :laugh:

It's mostly for how overrated Hayward is and less so for the Cavs. If another team was doing this, I would be saying the same thing. (Except how much of a joke the Cavs are)

Big difference. ;)

Hawkeye15
07-02-2014, 03:52 PM
Well part of the reason why I would like to see the twelve worst teams have an equal chance at the 1st pick is so tanking at least is LESS of an issue.

It will still happen regardless, but not to a point where like the "76ers where they just trade every relevant player they have to tank.

well, this years draft was supposed to be as strong as there has been in over 10 years, so the tanking was extreme. It's usually nowhere near this bad.

And I could not be a fan of a league that allows a 40 win team to have the same shot at the top pick as a 17 win team. That doesn't seem right to me at all.

WITZ
07-02-2014, 03:55 PM
It's mostly for how overrated Hayward is and less so for the Cavs. If another team was doing this, I would be saying the same thing. (Except how much of a joke the Cavs are)

Big difference. ;)

In that case


Okay, so we are worth it! Happy trolling!

JNA17
07-02-2014, 03:57 PM
And I could not be a fan of a league that allows a 40 win team to have the same shot at the top pick as a 17 win team. That doesn't seem right to me at all.

I don't know, I think it would be cool if say the Suns won the first pick. If they did I wouldn't complain. That team deserves it lol.

JNA17
07-02-2014, 03:58 PM
In that case

In that case,


Happy not being original. ;)

WITZ
07-02-2014, 04:04 PM
In that case,


Happy not being original. ;)

Back at cha ;)

btw this getting way off topic hurry up and commit somewhere Hayward :laugh2:

Hawkeye15
07-02-2014, 04:09 PM
I don't know, I think it would be cool if say the Suns won the first pick. If they did I wouldn't complain. That team deserves it lol.

my Wolves deserve it haha. Never had it once, and never even moved up a single time from their slotted draft position. Not one time. I remember reading there is a smaller chance of that happening then jumping 10 teams twice to move into the top 3. It's nearly impossible...

alas

JNA17
07-02-2014, 04:11 PM
my Wolves deserve it haha. Never had it once, and never even moved up a single time from their slotted draft position. Not one time. I remember reading there is a smaller chance of that happening then jumping 10 teams twice to move into the top 3. It's nearly impossible...

alas

I only didn't want the Wolves to win the first pick because of Kevin Love and stuff...

Nothing personal, just business. XD

Rain City
07-02-2014, 04:24 PM
omg just no, what the hell are cavs thinking...no wonder their franchise gets screwed over and over again.

+1 hayward is ok at best.

tr3ymill3r
07-02-2014, 04:28 PM
At this point I think we've all figured out that Dan Gilbert's kid is running that organization using NBA2K and ESPN Trade Machine to make deals and reach out to free agents.

JustinTime
07-02-2014, 04:41 PM
The money's crazy but the Cavs have a ton of assets and few holes left to fill. Hayward may actually end up as a 6th man on that team because I think Bennett is going to surprise people this year.

JustinTime
07-02-2014, 04:43 PM
Cavs will look very smart if Utah decides to match. The more teams you can screw over the better.

Hawkamania
07-02-2014, 04:50 PM
I see it like this, the Cavs, like the Jazz, know Hayward is NOT a max contract player at this point. However, the only way for the Cavs to have a chance at signing Hayward is to give him a max contract offer, thus giving themselves the best chance to dissuade the Jazz at matching.

Quinnsanity
07-02-2014, 05:05 PM
This would be a great get for Cleveland, but I'd like to see Phoenix get involved as well.

YAALREADYKNO
07-02-2014, 05:15 PM
well seeing how weak the nba is today anybody could get a max contract if they have a solid season

JNA17
07-02-2014, 05:19 PM
I see it like this, the Cavs, like the Jazz, know Hayward is NOT a max contract player at this point. However, the only way for the Cavs to have a chance at signing Hayward is to give him a max contract offer, thus giving themselves the best chance to dissuade the Jazz at matching.

So to avoid the Jazz matching an average player, they have to max the average player?

If this were Chandler Parsons or Lance Stephenson (if he were a RFA) I would understand, but not for Hayward.

JNA17
07-02-2014, 05:21 PM
well seeing how weak the nba is today anybody could get a max contract if they have a solid season

But that's the thing, Hayward didn't even have a good season. He had a bad one, in fact so bad that even Jodie Meeks arguably had a better season than him, and people here are laughing at the Pistons for giving Meeks 6 mill per. :laugh2:

GeekInThePink
07-02-2014, 05:41 PM
But that's the thing, Hayward didn't even have a good season. He had a bad one, in fact so bad that even Jodie Meeks arguably had a better season than him, and people here are laughing at the Pistons for giving Meeks 6 mill per. :laugh2:

You realize the Jazz had no good facilitators on the team at all right? Trey Burke is more an undersized two then a one, and not only was Hayward a primary ball handler for the Jazz, he was their number one option. Hayward struggled this year but averaged 16/5/5 with 1.4 steals on lower percentages on a down year. Hayward is newly 24 and as a 3rd/2nd option on Cleveland would make a lot of sense considering his abilities. A lot of big contracts not only pay on the past accomplishments but for younger players future expectations.

I think people are surprised about Jodie Meeks because he slightly improved this year and fit the system the Lakers had in place last season. He doesn't give you very much outside shooting but was a need for Detroit and seemingly a great fit and they were aggressive in pursuing their man, shooters are getting paid this off-season (see Ben Gordon).

YAALREADYKNO
07-02-2014, 05:50 PM
But that's the thing, Hayward didn't even have a good season. He had a bad one, in fact so bad that even Jodie Meeks arguably had a better season than him, and people here are laughing at the Pistons for giving Meeks 6 mill per. :laugh2:



he put up decent numbers but forreals anybody can get a big contract today in the nba

Hawkamania
07-02-2014, 06:07 PM
So to avoid the Jazz matching an average player, they have to max the average player?

If this were Chandler Parsons or Lance Stephenson (if he were a RFA) I would understand, but not for Hayward.

I'm not saying he's worth it right now, or that he ever will be for that matter.

However, I do believe the Cavs are offering him a max (if it's true they actually are) based on the player they believe he could become by investing big enough to potentially dissuade the Jazz from wanting to match it.

NBA_Starter
07-02-2014, 06:18 PM
Is he literally? I'm not sure that has been determined yet.

Is he in this market? Hell yeah, no doubt about it, if Avery Bradley got what he did then yes.

GeronimoSon
07-02-2014, 07:29 PM
The majority of the sentiment being expressed says that:

Hayward is a pretty good player... he can contribute as a second or third option... His game took a bit of a hit last year when he became a primary option, most notably his shooting.. At the end of the day.. he's not a max player and shouldn't be receiving a max deal...

That about sum it up?..

Irving
Wiggins
Hayward
Thompson
Varejao

6th man: Waiters

Bench: Zeller, Bennett and Jack

This lineup has one certain starter (KI), one player with huge upside (Wiggins) and a bunch of role players. None of the remaining names would be a first or second option on a good team.. Not one single player.. Why in the world would the Cavs want to throw $ 15 MM of their valuable cap space on a Three??????

The Cavs needs are pretty basic..(excluding the fantasy of any chance of LeBron returning)

First priority: Quality Big Man.. Not a Marcin Gortat.. not Brendan Heywood.. a REAL NBA big..Greg Monroe?. maybe?. Filling this hole will probably require a trade. a sign and trade.. some manipulation of the financial structure of the Cavs and the club they're getting him from.... If the Cavs have cap space if can be exploited as part of the trade.. If they throw it away on this pretty good wing from Utah.. then the chorus can begin: Farewell and adieu to my ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrpmv_zOa0k )

Thoughts?...

IversonIsKrazy
07-02-2014, 08:03 PM
$15M for a guy who puts up 16/5/5 on 41%FG 30% 3... hmm, but I guess if Meeks and Bradley are getting paid, y not.

NBA_Starter
07-02-2014, 08:24 PM
$15M for a guy who puts up 16/5/5 on 41%FG 30% 3... hmm, but I guess if Meeks and Bradley are getting paid, y not.

I think the Jazz will match pretty much anything so he is the real winner.

dhopisthename
07-02-2014, 08:51 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 7m
Cleveland's belief that Utah will match any Hayward offer sheet is strongly discouraging Cavs from extending one, league sources tell Yahoo.

ManRam
07-02-2014, 08:57 PM
well seeing how weak the nba is today anybody could get a max contract if they have a solid season

We should look at a max contract more like: it's 1/6th of what LeBron would get on an open market. It's the most a guy can get, but that doesn't mean it's just an absurd amount of money, especially younger players where we're "only" talking 15-16 million, and not like Kobe-level max.


I still believe in Hayward a lot. I get why people are hesitant, but I think there are a lot of people who will be surprised with him down the road. I would throw $12M at him in a heartbeat. 15-16 is a bit much, but if he's your guy, go for it.

hugepatsfan
07-02-2014, 08:58 PM
I still believe in Hayward a lot. I get why people are hesitant, but I think there are a lot of people who will be surprised with him down the road. I would throw $12M at him in a heartbeat. 15-16 is a bit much, but if he's your guy, go for it.

Been screaming this from the rooftops in the Celtics forum.

dhopisthename
07-02-2014, 09:05 PM
We should look at a max contract more like: it's 1/6th of what LeBron would get on an open market. It's the most a guy can get, but that doesn't mean it's just an absurd amount of money, especially younger players where we're "only" talking 15-16 million, and not like Kobe-level max.


I still believe in Hayward a lot. I get why people are hesitant, but I think there are a lot of people who will be surprised with him down the road. I would throw $12M at him in a heartbeat. 15-16 is a bit much, but if he's your guy, go for it.

yeah the jazz forum is debating this and if you think he is worth 12 then going to 15 mill isn't that big a deal.

Mr.B
07-02-2014, 09:18 PM
Hell if I am Cleveland, instead of that contract, I give Lance Stephenson a huge deal if they have to pick.

Last season alone, Stephenson evolved into a more efficient player, shot 49% vs Gordon Hayword at 41%, and Stephenson is a better rebounder, better play-maker, more athletic, and even a year younger.

Stephenson is a better defender and a Kyrie/Wiggins/Stephenson back-court could be deadly.
Stephenson is also a hell of a lot crazier than Hayword. He's a awesome talent however there is a reason teams aren't fighting over themselves to sign him. If you have a young up and coming team you don't want a guy like that in your locker room. For the benefit of his career Stephenson would be better suited to sign with a veteran team that won't put up with his crap and can show him how to be a professional.

Mr.B
07-02-2014, 09:22 PM
How exactly would the Cavs likely suck if they signed him Hawkeye?

Irving
Wiggins
Hayward
Thompson
Varejao
6th: Waiters

If they have anything resembling a bench (which they should with Zeller, Bennett and Jack already in the fold) I see no reason how that team could be last barring major injury.
I personally actually like their team. Over the next couple years they should be looking to add some veterans to that roster. If they are able to add some solid vets over the next couple of years they could easily challenge for the 2nd seed in the East.

FriedTofuz
07-02-2014, 09:22 PM
The cavs dont know what they're doing, they didnt even know who they were going todraft with the number 1 pick. David Griffen looks completly lost in the press conference with wiggins as well :laugh2:

FriedTofuz
07-02-2014, 09:25 PM
On a side note, watch Cleveland get the number 1 pick next year again.

TheMightyHumph
07-02-2014, 09:41 PM
Sports Whispers ‏@SportsWhispers 7m
#Cavs have offered a max contract (4 years, roughly $60M) to Gordon Hayward. If he signs the offer sheet, #Jazz will have 3 days to match

Answer: No.

If someone in tha NBA has offered him the max (at least the max THEY can offer him) that makes him a max player. Does this actually need a response or explanation.

Xplicit
07-02-2014, 09:42 PM
Hayward a max... NO! much better if they deal with Stephenson, much younger and better.. with Blatt guidance his character will change and his career will bloom

Melo15
07-02-2014, 09:55 PM
The cavs dont know what they're doing, they didnt even know who they were going todraft with the number 1 pick. David Griffen looks completly lost in the press conference with wiggins as well :laugh2:

Yeah, the team that had the number 1 pick waited until the actual draft to start to decide who to pick. Or possibly they decided days before hand and the media fabricated who they were deciding between for page views and intrigue. It's cool to see you misspell David Griffin's name and misplace him for the play by play guy in Fred McLeod though. Narratives are fun though, right?

Melo15
07-02-2014, 09:58 PM
Hayward a max... NO! much better if they deal with Stephenson, much younger and better.. with Blatt guidance his character will change and his career will bloom

First off the max rumors have been toned down by those close to the team. Secondly, I think they view Hayward as the perfect fit with Irving and Wiggins. With his shooting and passing ability moving from the lead scorer on the Jazz to a 2nd/3rd option on the Cavs should boost him and with David Blatt's ball movement and floor stretching philosophy he's a perfect fit. If they can get Dion Waiters to buy into being the 6th main then Irving/Wiggins/Hayward/Waiters would be a pretty dynamic rotation.

mike_noodles
07-02-2014, 10:07 PM
Anyone paying him max is ridiculous. He's a $12m a year type of guy on my eyes.

Melo15
07-02-2014, 10:13 PM
Anyone paying him max is ridiculous. He's a $12m a year type of guy on my eyes.

I agree entirely but if you're a team trying to sign him away from Utah then you obviously have to overpay so they won't match. With the salary cap going up is the difference between $12 and $15 million per year enough to make you miss out on him if he's your guy?

MonroeFAN
07-02-2014, 10:43 PM
He put up great numbers on a bad team.

His numbers were far from being great. This is terrible.

MonroeFAN
07-02-2014, 11:03 PM
I can't even begin to understand how the people who are ok with this are the same ones who were dogging the Meeks deal.

Is there something I'm missing here? I don't care what size he has, he wasn't efficient and his team blew.

Melo15
07-02-2014, 11:09 PM
I can't even begin to understand how the people who are ok with this are the same ones who were dogging the Meeks deal.

Is there something I'm missing here? I don't care what size he has, he wasn't efficient and his team blew.

Well there a few different things to consider: age, system, past production, projection for future production. The potential Hayward deal would be as much of a potential/production deal as anything. While not a perfect comparison it kind of reminds me of the Batum scenario a few years ago.

Vinny642
07-02-2014, 11:14 PM
I wouldnt pay him max money

MonroeFAN
07-02-2014, 11:21 PM
I can't even begin to understand how the people who are ok with this are the same ones who were dogging the Meeks deal.

Is there something I'm missing here? I don't care what size he has, he wasn't efficient and his team blew.

Well there a few different things to consider: age, system, past production, projection for future production. The potential Hayward deal would be as much of a potential/production deal as anything. While not a perfect comparison it kind of reminds me of the Batum scenario a few years ago.

I'm not suggesting that their values are equal, but at potentially 9 million more per, it seems like people could cut Detroit some slack on signing a guy who was one of the most efficient players in the league last year. System or not, you can't teach 40% from behind the arc and a 60+ TS%.

Melo15
07-02-2014, 11:35 PM
I can't even begin to understand how the people who are ok with this are the same ones who were dogging the Meeks deal.

Is there something I'm missing here? I don't care what size he has, he wasn't efficient and his team blew.

Well there a few different things to consider: age, system, past production, projection for future production. The potential Hayward deal would be as much of a potential/production deal as anything. While not a perfect comparison it kind of reminds me of the Batum scenario a few years ago.

I'm not suggesting that their values are equal, but at potentially 9 million more per, it seems like people could cut Detroit some slack on signing a guy who was one of the most efficient players in the league last year. System or not, you can't teach 40% from behind the arc and a 60+ TS%.

I think that's two different discussions really. You have to realize that big market fans are going to talk down to teams like Detroit and Cleveland though when they have to overpay to bring in talent. It's just the way it is.

MonroeFAN
07-03-2014, 07:46 AM
It's obnoxious, most of the big market teams sucked last year. Who really cares?

ManRam
07-03-2014, 09:19 AM
Hayward had Jefferson and Millsap in 2013 and it translated to a 56.4 TS%. This year he was vaulted to the first option and did struggle a bit. His minutes shot up. His usage went up and the attention on him defensively went up. I think the drop in performance was to be expected for a 23 year old. He'll have way more help in Cleveland, if for no other reason than Kyrie. He can slide back into a 2ish option and I think he'll thrive. I think if he lands in Cleveland he's poised for a break out season. Like I said, I really like his game. He can shoot, he can pass, he can rebound and he can poach a few steals. I actually am actively rooting for him to land in Cleveland.


Irving/Jack
Wiggins/Waiters
Hayward/Gee
Thompson/Bennett
Varejao/Zeller

I think that's a fun team. Might struggle with some perimeter defensive issues, but I'm sure the goal is for Wiggins to turn into a shut-down guy.

DR_1
07-03-2014, 10:06 AM
One question: Why?

Sanjay
07-03-2014, 11:01 PM
Seriously?

PowerHouse
07-03-2014, 11:23 PM
Absolutely not.

His FG% has been getting worse every year all the way down to a career low .413 last year. His 3pt% also dropped to a nasty career low of .304 and his FT% has been in a steady decline. Players are supposed to get better after a few years in the league, not worse. A max contract is beyond laughable.

waveycrockett
07-04-2014, 08:45 AM
I Like Gordon Hayward because every year he improves his game even though he is not an elite physical athlete. But he is absolutely not a max player. I think he is a guy like Noah who can really work hard to become a fringe allstar without the elite skills but def not more than 60/4 or something like that.

NoahH
07-04-2014, 10:43 AM
Hayward's shooting % has declined every year and he's a turnstile on defense. In his rookie year he had a 48% FG% and a 47% 3P... Last year he shot 41% FG and 30% 3P... 30% from a so called three points shooter

waveycrockett
07-04-2014, 10:48 AM
Hayward's shooting % has declined every year and he's a turnstile on defense. In his rookie year he had a 48% FG% and a 47% 3P... Last year he shot 41% FG and 30% 3P... 30% from a so called three points shooter

Yes but you have to look at the entire story. Obviously with him going from a role player to the #1 option on a horrendous team is going to kill his efficiency. In the right situation he can be a very very productive player just not a max guy or even close

Ware_Spencer
07-04-2014, 10:53 AM
Absolutely not.

His FG% has been getting worse every year all the way down to a career low .413 last year. His 3pt% also dropped to a nasty career low of .304 and his FT% has been in a steady decline. Players are supposed to get better after a few years in the league, not worse. A max contract is beyond laughable.

I would hardly say his FT percentage is on a steady decline. Going from 83% to 81% isn't a steady decline. Free Throw percentages fluctuate all the time. I wouldn't list those with his FG% and 3P%.

Its all mental with Hayward. He doesn't keep his balance when he shoots. And his usage went up and I don't think he was used to the energy he would be using. He didn't have the lift on his shot. He had Richard Jefferson and a injured Trey Burke next to him. And before Trey came back he had Tinsley and Lucas.......lol Hayward didn't have much help.

With saying all that. I am not giving Hayward a pass. I just seeing it for what it is. Hayward shooting percentages will be higher next year. No matter where he plays. BUT he does not deserve the max or anything close to it. Hayward deserves 12 million a year. Its the same contract as Iggy got last year(stats are almost the same). I wouldn't pay him more then that though. As paying young guys on potential with big contracts is stupid in my book.

FOXHOUND
07-04-2014, 12:53 PM
No way should he get the max but when you're trying to pry away a RFA that's usually what it takes. Comparing him and Jodie Meeks is off on so many levels. Meeks deal is only 3/$19M, so even if the per year is high that contract will not be a problem. If he maintains his efficiency from last year he'll earn that contract. If Hayward gets a max you're talking 4/$60M, so much more on the table in that deal. He's also a way better talent. Meeks can be a good 6th man but Hayward has the ability to develop into a fringe All-Star. Apples and oranges here, all the way.

Hayward's drop off in efficiency last year is 100% because of him being in a much larger role than he should be. That being the case means you shouldn't offer him the max, but again to pry away RFA that's usually what it takes. Chandler Parsons is probably better but if you threw him on that Utah team last year his efficiency would also plummet, so who's to say really? I think it's important to keep the coach in mind. In a free flowing, pass heavy system Hayward's passing and shooting skill set can really thrive.

How will Utah reach the cap floor if they don't match Hayward? That's what I want to know.

hugepatsfan
07-04-2014, 01:47 PM
I hope he gets the max from CHA and Utah doesn't match. Deng to ATL. Ariza stays in WAS. Lebron stays in MIA. Melo stays in NY. Pierce back to BRK. CHI amnesties Boozer, brings over that Euor big and then trades Dunleavy's expiring deal for Jeff Green (works under the cap). Stevenson stays in IND. I want to keep some talent in the East. With the above moves the Eastern Conference could be as competitive as it's been in a while

MIA (still top dogs with Lebron but not a runaway)
CHI (wouldn't be as good as if they got Melo but still a quality team)
WAS (good, young team if they can get Ariza back like Gortat)
ATL (would be great with Deng and a healthy Horford)
CHA (Hayward would help them take another step forward along with Vonleh in the draft)
IND (still a good team even though they crumbled late last year)
TOR (good team that did what it had to do in keeping Lowry)
BRK (enough good veterans where they're still a pretty solid bottom seed - better than the East has had in a while)
NYK (like BRK, nothing special but still a competitive bottom seed if Melo comes back)
CLE (even if they don't land Lebron they still have a young team with a lot of talent that is ready to start competing IMO)
DET (if they can move Smith to SAC in a S&T for Thomas I think that makes them better)

I think that would be as solid as the East has been in a long, long while.

IndiansFan337
07-04-2014, 05:13 PM
He put up great numbers on a bad team.
He didn't even out up good numbers last year, let alone great numbers.

He is certainly not worth the max. He's worth something more in line with what Avery Bradley re signed for with the C's.

dwilly4rilly
07-04-2014, 06:58 PM
It's funny how you can tell people have never seen Hayward play. They just repeat what they hear or read from the media. Things like "he lacks athleticism and isn't a good defender", or " he lacks physical gifts to keep up with elite players".
Hayward had a horrible year shooting, he turned it over a lot at key times in games, and frustrated a lot of Jazz fans myself included. His problem is not his body, it is his head. When his mind is right he can hang with just about anyone. He needs to get stronger mentally. He is an above average NBA defender. He defends KD, Kobe, CP3, and many more as well as just about anyone. Utah uses him to guard anything from PG's to SF's that are giving them trouble. He is athletic. Watch his rundown blocks video on YouTube and tell me he is not. He regularly is a one man fast break and has surprised many defenders with a dunk to finish the break. Don't just regurgitate what you've heard. That being said, he is not a max player and I see him improving to be a $12 million/year player.

NYKNYGNYY
07-04-2014, 08:26 PM
Haha if he's worth the max I can squeeze out the MLE

NBA_Starter
07-04-2014, 10:56 PM
This is moving way slower than I imagined but who can blame Cleveland for waiting on LeBron before offering him?

SPURSFAN1
07-04-2014, 11:41 PM
If the market says he is then he is.