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View Full Version : Important Question to all HEAT Fans?!?!



Nikeman
06-30-2014, 08:01 PM
So, I believe from reports that we have 55 million in cap space??

The cap is set at 62 million with luxury tax at 77 million?

Why can't Miami sign all the free agents we want, then using bird rights, re-sign one of the big 3?

Example..

Sign Bosh- 15 mill
Sign Wade 15 mill

We still have about 20-25 million in cap space.

Now, can we not sign Gortat and fillers for say 15 mill, and then using bird rights, go over cap and sign LeBron to his max? That puts us at 75 mill, Mickey Arison is happy as we are not over luxury tax, and the Big 3 get their needed help?

So yeah, why can't we sign the Big 3 LAST using bird rights to go over cap?

Nikeman
06-30-2014, 08:05 PM
Sorry to clutter the heat forum btw, as soon as someone answers a mod can delete or merge this thread, but this question has been eating me away forever.

I always thought that bird rights allow a team to go over the cap to sign their players back, and we have the Bird rights to the Big 3 I believe?

At least Wade for sure..

Romo2Bryant
06-30-2014, 08:16 PM
I could be wrong, but I think once the Heat re-announce the bird rights for James, Wade and Bosh, then the cap-space is gone technically. For instance, if the Heat re-announce the bird rights for Bosh, then there goes $20M in cap-space. But if the Heat signed Bosh let's say 4 years for $56M, then the $20M goes away immediately. Bosh would then be making $14M per year.

So basically if the Heat re-announce the bird rights for LeBron, then they can offer him about 5 years for $129M. On the other hand, if the Heat don't re-announce the bird rights for LeBron, in that case their in the same position as all the other teams who can offer LeBron a max contract.

Nikeman
06-30-2014, 08:21 PM
I could be wrong, but I think once the Heat re-announce the bird rights for James, Wade and Bosh, then the cap-space is gone technically. For instance, if the Heat re-announce the bird rights for Bosh, then there goes $20M in cap-space. But if the Heat signed Bosh let's say 4 years for $56M, then the $20M goes away immediately. Bosh would then be making $14M per year.

So basically if the Heat re-announce the bird rights for LeBron, then they can offer him about 5 years for $129M. On the other hand, if the Heat don't re-announce the bird rights for LeBron, in that case their in the same position as all the other teams who can offer LeBron a max contract.

So why don't we sign who we want to sign, and then "re-announce" our bird rights and go over cap to sign our Big 3?

Or, say LeBron wants the max, then why don't we sign Bosh and Wade to their respective pay-cut deals, and then we have 25 million or so to sign anyone we want, and then we can use the "bird rights" to offer LeBron the max deal??

Romo2Bryant
06-30-2014, 08:34 PM
So why don't we sign who we want to sign, and then "re-announce" our bird rights and go over cap to sign our Big 3?

Or, say LeBron wants the max, then why don't we sign Bosh and Wade to their respective pay-cut deals, and then we have 25 million or so to sign anyone we want, and then we can use the "bird rights" to offer LeBron the max deal??

I mean either way Wade and Bosh would still be getting their money. If Miami don't re-announce the bird rights for Wade and Bosh, then cool. But the Heat would still have to sign them to new contracts.

beasted86
06-30-2014, 08:44 PM
So yeah, why can't we sign the Big 3 LAST using bird rights to go over cap?

Because of what is called a "cap hold". This would not allow the HEAT to use actual cap space until they re-sign, sign elsewhere, or we renounce their Bird rights.

MiamiLoyal926
06-30-2014, 08:51 PM
It's either bird rights or cap space.

In order to have all that cap space then we have to renounce (give up) their bird rights. If we don't, then there is a hold for 20 million each player(related to their most recent earnings). 60mil cap hold.

The other way around this is to sign them first to their smaller deals that way their hit against the cap is not 20 million but their new reduced salary. Example: each at 15mil first year = only 45million against the cap.

If we renounce all three, THEN we have 55 million in cap space. (63 mil minus Cole, Napier, and 7 empty roster spot holds)

Nikeman
06-30-2014, 08:54 PM
Okay, what about back-loading deals??

Say we give both Wade/Bosh close to 15m per year @ 4 years and 60 mill?

Then back-load the contract, allowing Wade/Bosh to make 8 mill the first year, and close to 18 the other 3 years?

This year, the cap-hit is only 16 million for both of them, and if we sign Bron at 20 mill, we essentially only use 36 mill cap space this season and have about 18-20 million?

Romo2Bryant
06-30-2014, 09:07 PM
Okay, what about back-loading deals??

Say we give both Wade/Bosh close to 15m per year @ 4 years and 60 mill?

Then back-load the contract, allowing Wade/Bosh to make 8 mill the first year, and close to 18 the other 3 years?

This year, the cap-hit is only 16 million for both of them, and if we sign Bron at 20 mill, we essentially only use 36 mill cap space this season and have about 18-20 million?

3 years from now, you think Arison would mind paying Wade and Bosh $18M?

beasted86
06-30-2014, 09:11 PM
Okay, what about back-loading deals??

Say we give both Wade/Bosh close to 15m per year @ 4 years and 60 mill?

Then back-load the contract, allowing Wade/Bosh to make 8 mill the first year, and close to 18 the other 3 years?

This year, the cap-hit is only 16 million for both of them, and if we sign Bron at 20 mill, we essentially only use 36 mill cap space this season and have about 18-20 million?

That type of contract is illegal under the CBA or else every team would do it. Sign a bunch of free agents for small amounts and then get a mega raise the next year.

Nikeman
06-30-2014, 09:19 PM
That type of contract is illegal under the CBA or else every team would do it. Sign a bunch of free agents for small amounts and then get a mega raise the next year.

How did Houston get away with it for Lin/Asik?

Nikeman
06-30-2014, 09:19 PM
3 years from now, you think Arison would mind paying Wade and Bosh $18M?

Well quite honestly, if it means keeping LeBron and getting an ultra-competitive team for the next 2-4 years if we can add the right pieces, then yes.

Nikeman
06-30-2014, 09:25 PM
Per the NBA forum, IF Wade/Bosh were to take 15m deals, we can offer a raise of the contract by 7.5%, meaning we can offer 4/60, but the minimum 1st year salary would be 13.75 million, or 7.5% of 15 million. This rule, per the CBA would allow Miami to gain about an extra 2 million in cap space with the Wade/Bosh deals, just an FYI if anyone was interested.

beasted86
06-30-2014, 09:27 PM
How did Houston get away with it for Lin/Asik?

Its called a poison-pill contract and only applies to guys coming off rookie salaries who played two seasons.

You need to play 3 years with a team to get full Bird Rights, so if you only play 2 seasons as a rookie and then are up for a deal, you can't sign the regular max like a normal first rounder would sign. You are basically limited to signing a contract that is 2 years at the current mid-level (essentially completing your first 4 years of low-type salary like a normal 1st round player) and then the following years can be the max salary (for what would then be a 5th+ year player) going into the 3rd year of the contract and beyond.

Nikeman
06-30-2014, 09:37 PM
Its called a poison-pill contract and only applies to guys coming off rookie salaries who played two seasons.

You need to play 3 years with a team to get full Bird Rights, so if you only play 2 seasons as a rookie and then are up for a deal, you can't sign the regular max like a normal first rounder would sign. You are basically limited to signing a contract that is 2 years at the current mid-level (essentially completing your first 4 years of low-type salary like a normal 1st round player) and then the following years can be the max salary (for what would then be a 5th+ year player) going into the 3rd year of the contract and beyond.

Gotcha

Well crap, we are much, much, more limited than I thought we were going to be man. Especially if reports are true LBJ wants the max. We may just come away with one player in the 5-6 million dollar range.

beasted86
06-30-2014, 09:39 PM
Gotcha

Well crap, we are much, much, more limited than I thought we were going to be man. Especially if reports are true LBJ wants the max. We may just come away with one player in the 5-6 million dollar range.

Well assuming Riley can manage the roster payroll to keep them below the tax, we will have the $5.3M mid-level and the $2.1M bi-annual.

Either that or all of the reports of salary demands are false and the media is making things up for attention just as they did in 2010.

Xplicit
06-30-2014, 10:18 PM
Miami needs to bid on Carter, Nelson and Lamb... they're waived

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-30-2014, 10:23 PM
Well assuming Riley can manage the roster payroll to keep them below the tax, we will have the $5.3M mid-level and the $2.1M bi-annual.

Either that or all of the reports of salary demands are false and the media is making things up for attention just as they did in 2010.
Sorry to barge into your forum, but according to Larry Coon who is a cap-ologist for the NBA, "you either have cap room, or exceptions, you cannot have both"

After all your guys sign their deals, it looks like you will have about $7 million in cap space. Your mid-level and bi- annual exceptions count against your cap. So you could sign one guy to $5.3, and another to $2.1 which will take you over the cap by about $400,000. Or you could renounce your exceptions and use all $7 million on one player. But you cannot go up to the $63 million dollar tax line, and THEN use your exceptions.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q26

Scroll down to number 26 for more information.

beasted86
07-01-2014, 07:10 AM
Sorry to barge into your forum, but according to Larry Coon who is a cap-ologist for the NBA, "you either have cap room, or exceptions, you cannot have both"

After all your guys sign their deals, it looks like you will have about $7 million in cap space. Your mid-level and bi- annual exceptions count against your cap. So you could sign one guy to $5.3, and another to $2.1 which will take you over the cap by about $400,000. Or you could renounce your exceptions and use all $7 million on one player. But you cannot go up to the $63 million dollar tax line, and THEN use your exceptions.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q26

Scroll down to number 26 for more information.

You are telling me something I already know. I don't know where you saw I said we get both.

MiamiLoyal926
07-01-2014, 08:30 AM
Miami needs to bid on Carter, Nelson and Lamb... they're waived

Those are players you go for after all big signings have been made, not before. They are vet min type signings which can only occur after you use your cap. If you do it befor then they eat away at your cap.

DODGERS&LAKERS
07-01-2014, 11:12 AM
You are telling me something I already know. I don't know where you saw I said we get both.

Even though I quoted your post I wasn't necessarily directing my comment towards you. I was expanding upon your previous post. A lot of people think they can go up the cap line and then use the mid level or bi annual exceptions. I have this issue in the Laker form all the time. I was speaking with the same gentleman who started this thread in the NBA forum about this very topic so I wanted to see if he got his clarification in here as well. He obviously does not know how the exceptions work so I wanted to add on to what you already did for more clarification.