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View Full Version : True or False? LBJ Will Never Be A Top 10 Player Of All Time?



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RocketLoc80
06-30-2014, 09:20 AM
Simple answers

PhillyBronco08
06-30-2014, 09:26 AM
My answer is this is a stupid thread why waste everyones time with another dumb lbj thread

RocketLoc80
06-30-2014, 09:28 AM
My answer is this is a stupid thread why waste everyones time with another dumb lbj thread

Because it`s consensus Lebron is not or never be a top 10 player of all time

Mr.B
06-30-2014, 09:30 AM
He's arguably already a top 10 player all time.

t_money25
06-30-2014, 09:32 AM
Because it`s consensus Lebron is not or never be a top 10 player of all time

Exactly what consensus are you talking about? I've seen many say he's top 10 already.

ThuglifeJ
06-30-2014, 09:32 AM
close this.

hugepatsfan
06-30-2014, 09:33 AM
I voted no by mistake. I got confused by the way the OP asked in the title would Lebron never be a top 10 player and then in the poll asked if he would be.

cssdmark
06-30-2014, 09:45 AM
Top ten yes. Mount Rushmore no. He is always looking for the easy way out.

ManRam
06-30-2014, 09:49 AM
He's already been one of the 10 best to ever step on the court. I think that's pretty clear. He needs to get more of that team success nailed down to really climb, but assuming he doesn't fall off a cliff, he's already there. 4 MVPs, 2 Finals MVPs, 10 AS Games in 11 years...and the fact that he'll, barring something unforeseen, finish his career top-10 in points, assists, win shares, PER, WS/48 and so on pretty much solidifies it.


We're doing the PSD Top-50 players all time voting right now. It seems like he'll already be voted in by the PSD population based on votes he's already been receiving. Maybe tune into those threads....


And thread title not being the same as poll title is really weird...

pacofunk64
06-30-2014, 10:04 AM
1st you need to write your poll question better because it is opposite of what you wrote in your opening post. Also you state it's consensus that he isn't in the top 10 right now I would have to disagree. I think the consensus is that he is in the top 10 already.

greg_ory_2005
06-30-2014, 10:15 AM
Lebron is already top 10. No more questions from you bro

astonmartin10
06-30-2014, 10:24 AM
He already is. Silly question.

There is hating and then there is being stupid.

MiamiBoy77
06-30-2014, 10:43 AM
why don't people check what they write when they post?

not sure if anybody above said it but you wrote the opposite thing in your post and poll? Probably fooled some people.

I voted yes, he will be top 10, or no, he wont never be top 10.

bleedprple&gold
06-30-2014, 10:55 AM
why don't people check what they write when they post?

not sure if anybody above said it but you wrote the opposite thing in your post and poll? Probably fooled some people.

I voted yes, he will be top 10, or no, he wont never be top 10.

Probably intentional by OP to get people to vote no when they meant yes.

NYKnickFanatic
06-30-2014, 11:04 AM
I hate when people make polls and put the question in the title, but then ask the complete opposite in the poll question...

DWNTWNLakeShow
06-30-2014, 11:05 AM
Top ten yes. Top 4 absolutely not due to the way he will be precieved as a player who couldn't do it alone. If he would of done it with no more than one other superstar it would not look as bad, but when u need to team up with two other superstars and now possibly four?!! It will totally affect his legacy

RocketLoc80
06-30-2014, 11:51 AM
Top ten yes. Top 4 absolutely not due to the way he will be precieved as a player who couldn't do it alone. If he would of done it with no more than one other superstar it would not look as bad, but when u need to team up with two other superstars and now possibly four?!! It will totally affect his legacy

SO let me guess Kobe is the be all and end all of this era huh?

beliges
06-30-2014, 12:25 PM
SO let me guess Kobe is the be all and end all of this era huh?

Kobe is clearly the best in his era, like magic and MJ were prior to him. LBJ will probably go down as the best in his era unless Durant starts winning titles.

blams
06-30-2014, 12:27 PM
Kobe is clearly the best in his era, like magic and MJ were prior to him. LBJ will probably go down as the best in his era unless Durant starts winning titles.

Lol

h2r09
06-30-2014, 12:30 PM
Top ten yes. Top 4 absolutely not due to the way he will be precieved as a player who couldn't do it alone. If he would of done it with no more than one other superstar it would not look as bad, but when u need to team up with two other superstars and now possibly four?!! It will totally affect his legacy

There has never been a player who has won it alone.

MJ had two hall of famers on his team that weren't him and a great shooting pg.
Kobe had the best center of all time and then had another half of famer in Pau Gasol, a great center at the time in Bynum and a very good player in Lamar Odom.

The whole "couldn't do it alone" thing is incredibly idiotic because nobody has ever won it alone.

ManRam
06-30-2014, 12:33 PM
There has never been a player who has won it alone.

MJ had two hall of famers on his team that weren't him and a great shooting pg.
Kobe had the best center of all time and then had another half of famer in Pau Gasol, a great center at the time in Bynum and a very good player in Lamar Odom.

The whole "couldn't do it alone" thing is incredibly idiotic because nobody has ever won it alone.

Let alone, Magic, Bird, Russell, so on and so on...

greg_ory_2005
06-30-2014, 12:44 PM
SO let me guess Kobe is the be all and end all of this era huh?

No. Sean Mayne is.

hidalgo
06-30-2014, 12:45 PM
he is top 10 already. he doesn't have quite the killer instinct, insane competitive nature of Air Jordan(not as clutch either. he has all this stuff, just clearly below His Airness, like everyone else too, not a knock), but LBJ has still done some great things, & won 4 mvps(may even tie Kareem with 6 before he's done) i think he has 2 finals mvps left in him which would put him 2nd to MJ. i don't think the Heat want any part of the Spurs again, & they should be damm proud they beat them in 2013. i think they'll have a good chance against any other west team(& could go back to back again starting next year, then it'll be over)

predection. LBJ 5 mvps, 4 titles, 4 finals mvps, 8 trips to the finals, 8 first team all defensive, 35,100 career pts. no brainer top 10. this dude is incredible

hidalgo
06-30-2014, 12:52 PM
Kobe is clearly the best in his era, like magic and MJ were prior to him.freaking LOL

top 3 of Kobly's era

Tim Duncan
Shaquille O'Neal
LeBron James

nickdymez
06-30-2014, 12:55 PM
No one mentions Kobe at all, but one of these LeBron guys just has to say "let me guess, blah blah blah, kobe".
I don't know if LeBron is top 10 just yet. But, most people when rating LeBron, only look at numbers. That's it. Just numbers. If you were only looking at numbers, then yes definitely

DR_1
06-30-2014, 01:14 PM
Whoops accidentally voted yes. He's not there yet but he could get there - I don't think he will though,

FlashBolt
06-30-2014, 01:14 PM
No one mentions Kobe at all, but one of these LeBron guys just has to say "let me guess, blah blah blah, kobe".
I don't know if LeBron is top 10 just yet. But, most people when rating LeBron, only look at numbers. That's it. Just numbers. If you were only looking at numbers, then yes definitely

So let's not look at numbers, what do you look at? How angry they look on a scale of 1-10 in a playoff game? Gimme a break. Stats have a lot to do with basketball. Take out stats and all you have are emotions. Hate when people don't want to use stats because James clearly destroys their argument when you look at it. He's already top 10. Only thing for him to do is keep winning whatever he has to win (MVP's, DPOY, rings, All Star MVP's?, All NBA first, and heck, even the slam dunk champion will give him some arguments).

bucketss
06-30-2014, 01:17 PM
lmao lebron is already top ten what a fail


#InBeforeAmoslerAndIllusionist

bucketss
06-30-2014, 01:20 PM
No one mentions Kobe at all, but one of these LeBron guys just has to say "let me guess, blah blah blah, kobe".
I don't know if LeBron is top 10 just yet. But, most people when rating LeBron, only look at numbers. That's it. Just numbers. If you were only looking at numbers, then yes definitely

actually it was the op who mentioned kobe, hes not a bron fan clearly. kobe is irrelevant really idk why people always have to mention him in the presence of the king.

nickdymez
06-30-2014, 01:21 PM
So let's not look at numbers, what do you look at? How angry they look on a scale of 1-10 in a playoff game? Gimme a break. Stats have a lot to do with basketball. Take out stats and all you have are emotions. Hate when people don't want to use stats because James clearly destroys their argument when you look at it. He's already top 10. Only thing for him to do is keep winning whatever he has to win (MVP's, DPOY, rings, All Star MVP's?, All NBA first, and heck, even the slam dunk champion will give him some arguments).
Again, some people have different criteria when it comes to greatness. Who are you to tell people what they should look at when measuring who one feels is great?

nickdymez
06-30-2014, 01:23 PM
actually it was the op who mentioned kobe, hes not a bron fan clearly. kobe is irrelevant really idk why people always have to mention him in the presence of the king.
Lmfao. Calling another normal man a king. You might as well call him daddy. And the "king" looks like he was overthrown by khawai Leonard. Lol

bucketss
06-30-2014, 01:24 PM
So let's not look at numbers, what do you look at? How angry they look on a scale of 1-10 in a playoff game? Gimme a break. Stats have a lot to do with basketball. Take out stats and all you have are emotions. Hate when people don't want to use stats because James clearly destroys their argument when you look at it. He's already top 10. Only thing for him to do is keep winning whatever he has to win (MVP's, DPOY, rings, All Star MVP's?, All NBA first, and heck, even the slam dunk champion will give him some arguments).

funny thinkg is lebron is a 2 time nba champion and 4 time league mvp, and they want to scoff at that LOL

ManRam
06-30-2014, 01:25 PM
Again, some people have different criteria when it comes to greatness. Who are you to tell people what they should look at when measuring who one feels is great?

I think he asked you what it is you look at then.

Because statistically it's a lock. He has the accolades too (2 Finals MVPs and 4 MVPs is rare rare rare company). After that you're left with nit-picking probably.

bucketss
06-30-2014, 01:27 PM
Lmfao. Calling another normal man a king. You might as well call him daddy. And the "king" looks like he was overthrown by khawai Leonard. Lol

lmao its cute how compliments to lebron gets you so emotional LOL, you remind me of my ex.

nickdymez
06-30-2014, 01:29 PM
I think he asked you what it is you look at then.

Because statistically it's a lock. He has the accolades too. After that you're left with nit-picking probably.
Admittedly sometimes I gloss over posts from some people here. My bad to the guy who asked.

For me it's the circumstances surrounding a player. How he overcomes adversity, how he handles pressure, etc. Things that you actually have to watch the game to see. LeBron is a freak of nature, so his numbers should be awesome, and they are. But he doesn't seem to have that hunger, that ultimate drive that makes me say there is no stopping this guy. He's lost more than he's won in the finals. For me, if he's this awesome guy that his fans portray him to be, there should be no excuse for him having lost twice in Miami with a stacked team. I'll give him a pass for that Cleveland finals. Just getting there was legit in my eyes.

bucketss
06-30-2014, 01:32 PM
Admittedly sometimes I gloss over posts from some people here. My bad to the guy who asked.

For me it's the circumstances surrounding a player. How he overcomes adversity, how he handles pressure, etc. Things that you actually have to watch the game to see. LeBron is a freak of nature, so his numbers should be awesome, and they are. But he doesn't seem to have that hunger, that ultimate drive that makes me say there is no stopping this guy. He's lost more than he's won in the finals. For me, if he's this awesome guy that his fans portray him to be, there should be no excuse for him having lost twice in Miami with a stacked team. I'll give him a pass for that Cleveland finals. Just getting there was legit in my eyes.

no excuse for 2011, but you calling this 2014 team stacked just shows how low your BBALL iq is.

nickdymez
06-30-2014, 01:33 PM
no excuse for 2011, but you calling this 2014 team stacked just shows how low your BBALL iq is.
Lol. Ok Homer

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 01:45 PM
Simple answers

False, he'll end up between 8-10

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 01:46 PM
Lol at he already is, PSD at its finest.

bucketss
06-30-2014, 01:47 PM
make me a sammich boi.

FlashBolt
06-30-2014, 01:47 PM
Admittedly sometimes I gloss over posts from some people here. My bad to the guy who asked.

For me it's the circumstances surrounding a player. How he overcomes adversity, how he handles pressure, etc. Things that you actually have to watch the game to see. LeBron is a freak of nature, so his numbers should be awesome, and they are. But he doesn't seem to have that hunger, that ultimate drive that makes me say there is no stopping this guy. He's lost more than he's won in the finals. For me, if he's this awesome guy that his fans portray him to be, there should be no excuse for him having lost twice in Miami with a stacked team. I'll give him a pass for that Cleveland finals. Just getting there was legit in my eyes.

1) This is the same hunger we're talking about when Kobe lost and Jordan lost? I hate when people talk about this hunger crap. They aren't really HUNGRY, they are just more aggressive than LeBron and that is why it comes off as them being a killer. In no way does that make them any more hungry than LeBron in winning. They all want to win - just cause they don't show it doesn't mean they are just going to stand there losing. I don't recall anyone saying Kobe and Jordan had that hunger when they were LOSING. It's only when they win people talk about their hunger.

2) If you give him a pass for the Cleveland finals, that means you drop a finals loss from him. That makes him 2-2, why are you contradicting your own argument? 2011, no pass for me on LeBron. He sucked. He shied away from the Finals and let his team down. If they ever did win that Finals, Wade should have been FMVP. Which raises the question, if James let his team down and it wasn't his teammates fault in 2011, why can't the same be said for Wade and James teammates letting James down against the Spurs in 2014? If you're going to use double-standards, do them well. I fairly criticized James for his failures but don't let that get to you constantly despising him in anything he does. 2014 was not stacked by any means. Wade/Bosh were outplayed respectively by Ginobili/Duncan. Miami's bench? Not even worth mentioning other than Rashard Lewis - who averaged 5.3 points on 40% shooting in the playoffs. The only player who played worth a crap was James and he played well by going 28 points on 58% shooting 8 rebounds, can we really fault him for assists when his teammates missed wide open shots? I mean seriously, if you watched the NBA finals, how can you fairly sit there and say James let his team down? It was the other way around. Jordan by himself would not beat this Spurs team.

IgglesFanInCO
06-30-2014, 01:48 PM
27 people think he will be top ten
3 got fooled by the poll
and the other ones probably the op

:D

Jetsguy
06-30-2014, 01:48 PM
Already is

nickdymez
06-30-2014, 01:51 PM
1) This is the same hunger we're talking about when Kobe lost and Jordan lost? I hate when people talk about this hunger crap. They aren't really HUNGRY, they are just more aggressive than LeBron and that is why it comes off as them being a killer. In no way does that make them any more hungry than LeBron in winning. They all want to win - just cause they don't show it doesn't mean they are just going to stand there losing. I don't recall anyone saying Kobe and Jordan had that hunger when they were LOSING. It's only when they win people talk about their hunger.

2) If you give him a pass for the Cleveland finals, that means you drop a finals loss from him. That makes him 2-2, why are you contradicting your own argument? 2011, no pass for me on LeBron. He sucked. He shied away from the Finals and let his team down. If they ever did win that Finals, Wade should have been FMVP. Which raises the question, if James let his team down and it wasn't his teammates fault in 2011, why can't the same be said for Wade and James teammates letting James down against the Spurs in 2014? If you're going to use double-standards, do them well. I fairly criticized James for his failures but don't let that get to you constantly despising him in anything he does. 2014 was not stacked by any means. Wade/Bosh were outplayed respectively by Ginobili/Duncan. Miami's bench? Not even worth mentioning other than Rashard Lewis - who averaged 5.3 points on 40% shooting in the playoffs. The only player who played worth a crap was James and he played well by going 28 points on 58% shooting 8 rebounds, can we really fault him for assists when his teammates missed wide open shots? I mean seriously, if you watched the NBA finals, how can you fairly sit there and say James let his team down? It was the other way around. Jordan by himself would not beat this Spurs team.
Ok man. Listen to me, I'm not gonna argue with you about the way I feel about the game of basketball. You made valid points, but that's your opinion and your opinion isn't strong enough to steer mine. Your obviously a big LeBron fan and nothing I say can make you feel otherwise. It seems like you want to find excuses for him. The greatest player of this generation shouldn't need that many excuses for losing or taking the easy route to try and win. Good talking to you though

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 01:52 PM
make me a sammich boi.sig

bucketss
06-30-2014, 01:55 PM
1) This is the same hunger we're talking about when Kobe lost and Jordan lost? I hate when people talk about this hunger crap. They aren't really HUNGRY, they are just more aggressive than LeBron and that is why it comes off as them being a killer. In no way does that make them any more hungry than LeBron in winning. They all want to win - just cause they don't show it doesn't mean they are just going to stand there losing. I don't recall anyone saying Kobe and Jordan had that hunger when they were LOSING. It's only when they win people talk about their hunger.

2) If you give him a pass for the Cleveland finals, that means you drop a finals loss from him. That makes him 2-2, why are you contradicting your own argument? 2011, no pass for me on LeBron. He sucked. He shied away from the Finals and let his team down. If they ever did win that Finals, Wade should have been FMVP. Which raises the question, if James let his team down and it wasn't his teammates fault in 2011, why can't the same be said for Wade and James teammates letting James down against the Spurs in 2014? If you're going to use double-standards, do them well. I fairly criticized James for his failures but don't let that get to you constantly despising him in anything he does. 2014 was not stacked by any means. Wade/Bosh were outplayed respectively by Ginobili/Duncan. Miami's bench? Not even worth mentioning other than Rashard Lewis - who averaged 5.3 points on 40% shooting in the playoffs. The only player who played worth a crap was James and he played well by going 28 points on 58% shooting 8 rebounds, can we really fault him for assists when his teammates missed wide open shots? I mean seriously, if you watched the NBA finals, how can you fairly sit there and say James let his team down? It was the other way around. Jordan by himself would not beat this Spurs team.

you thoroughly destroyed him, i want to blog this post if you don't mind.

Vinylman
06-30-2014, 01:59 PM
I can't stand Lebron James

with that said, he already is top 10

bucketss
06-30-2014, 02:00 PM
sig


Just respecting greatness. Last yr he was immature and felt entitled to things. This yr he's been quiet about his business, acted mature, and has been a joy to watch. Really feel he'll get that first title and finals MVP.

you posted this about lebron on my wall ;) what happened to respecting greatness.

Corey
06-30-2014, 02:01 PM
Because it`s consensus Lebron is not or never be a top 10 player of all time

What consensus are you talking about?

Everyone respects his talent and put him alongside the all time greats. Many have him over Bird already.

siix
06-30-2014, 02:04 PM
of course he is going to be top 10

Slade123
06-30-2014, 02:05 PM
I voted no by mistake. I got confused by the way the OP asked in the title would Lebron never be a top 10 player and then in the poll asked if he would be.

I did the exact same thing.

sammyvine
06-30-2014, 02:05 PM
i think he is top 10 already

siix
06-30-2014, 02:06 PM
but top 5 is debatable

bucketss
06-30-2014, 02:08 PM
i think he butchered the poll question on purpose.

I Rock Shaqs
06-30-2014, 02:18 PM
Because it`s consensus Lebron is not or never be a top 10 player of all time

I'm pretty sure that LeBron is arguably a top 5 player ever in most peoples mind.

Jamiecballer
06-30-2014, 02:25 PM
I'm pretty sure that LeBron is arguably a top 5 player ever in most peoples mind.
Yep

Bostonjorge
06-30-2014, 02:30 PM
James is the only player in the top 20 to have so many excuses. The more he teams up the more he slides out of the top 20. So because of a single series the heat are not stacked? Just because certain players out played superstars.

In 2012 Chalmers and miller outplayed harden. Ibaka did nothing for them. 2013 a hurt and awful wade out scored every single spurs player. Wade had more reb and asst then 90% of the spurs players. Ginobli was out played by Allen and mills sat on the bench being fat. So if James losing with Cleveland and this Miami team get a pass we can't count his wins over Okc and spurs.

So how can James be anywhere near the top 10 when he can only win if he has every advantage possible in a matchup. No one in the top 10 needed that much to win a title but James had that much and lost twice with it.

Jint.
06-30-2014, 02:33 PM
A.. He already is

B.. I like turtles

bucketss
06-30-2014, 02:35 PM
James is the only player in the top 20 to have so many excuses. The more he teams up the more he slides out of the top 20. So because of a single series the heat are not stacked? Just because certain players out played superstars.

In 2012 Chalmers and miller outplayed harden. Ibaka did nothing for them. 2013 a hurt and awful wade out scored every single spurs player. Wade had more reb and asst then 90% of the spurs players. Ginobli was out played by Allen and mills sat on the bench being fat. So if James losing with Cleveland and this Miami team get a pass we can't count his wins over Okc and spurs.

So how can James be anywhere near the top 10 when he can only win if he has every advantage possible in a matchup. No one in the top 10 needed that much to win a title but James had that much and lost twice with it.

lol @@ one series, they haven't been stacked since 2011,

naps
06-30-2014, 02:40 PM
Kobe is clearly the best in his era, like magic and MJ were prior to him. LBJ will probably go down as the best in his era unless Durant starts winning titles.

LOL. Ever heard of Tim Duncan?

Bostonjorge
06-30-2014, 02:41 PM
lol @@ one series, they haven't been stacked since 2011,

Your basketball IQ is just way to low.

koreancabbage
06-30-2014, 02:41 PM
based on projections and grand total of all round numbers... and efficiency - which separates true all time players from players that just put up numbers. I think all the real top 10 players are efficient, good all round numbers, good totals for their careers, MVPs, FMVPs, other various individual accolades, and the last deciding factor - championships in their career

so based off of projections, Lebron is already a special player in terms of all round stats (averages), career totals, individual accolades, and championships - if he isn't already top 10, he will be.

bucketss
06-30-2014, 02:47 PM
Your basketball IQ is just way to low.

says the dude that thinks an injured wade in 2012 makes miami stacked. lmao u do realize if you combine wade/bosh scoring numbers it almost equals shaqs during some playoff series right? LOL

XpLiCiTT
06-30-2014, 02:47 PM
James is the only player in the top 20 to have so many excuses. The more he teams up the more he slides out of the top 20. So because of a single series the heat are not stacked? Just because certain players out played superstars.

So how can James be anywhere near the top 10 when he can only win if he has every advantage possible in a matchup. No one in the top 10 needed that much to win a title but James had that much and lost twice with it.

thanks for the laugh

FlashBolt
06-30-2014, 02:50 PM
James is the only player in the top 20 to have so many excuses. The more he teams up the more he slides out of the top 20. So because of a single series the heat are not stacked? Just because certain players out played superstars.

In 2012 Chalmers and miller outplayed harden. Ibaka did nothing for them. 2013 a hurt and awful wade out scored every single spurs player. Wade had more reb and asst then 90% of the spurs players. Ginobli was out played by Allen and mills sat on the bench being fat. So if James losing with Cleveland and this Miami team get a pass we can't count his wins over Okc and spurs.

So how can James be anywhere near the top 10 when he can only win if he has every advantage possible in a matchup. No one in the top 10 needed that much to win a title but James had that much and lost twice with it.

James deserves a pass for 2007 and 2014 but not 2011. No one is defending him for 2011. 2014 was another case. Uhm, 2014 it wasn't stacked. Wade was injured 30% of the season or whatever he was doing. Bosh barely grabbed 6 rebounds and he was their center. Bosh didn't play well in the playoffs - certainly not worth 20m him and Wade get paid. Wade was good up until the Finals but still - he was horrific in the finals. James was great the entire playoffs. Miami lost twice, not James. Love how you single out James - which indicates you think NBA is an individual game.

Let's take a look at top 10 players and their cast.

1) Jordan - Pippen/Rodman/arguably GOAT coach in Phil. Greatest coach, greatest rebounder, greatest defender as his cast?
2) KAJ - Another top 5 coach Pat Riley with Magic (Many regard him as the 2nd best player), Worthy, Wilkes, Nixon. Wilkes was a top 15 player at that time. Oh yeah, Big O?
3) Magic - Same with KAJ.
4) Kobe - Shaq is literally enough. Need I say more? Phil, Gasol, Odom? I mean he had Shaq..
5) Shaq - Wade, Kobe, Phil Jackson, Pat Riley.
6) Duncan - Pop, Parker, Robinson (Short but he was there to help Duncan transition), Ginobili, and all around solid cast.
7) Larry Bird - He only played with Kevin McHale, Parish, and Dennis Johnson.
8) Wilt - West, McMillian, Goodrich? Wilt wasn't even the best on that team.
9) Hakeem - Only player I can say that carried his team to a championship with the least amount of help. Which says a lot considering Hakeem is way up there.
10) James - Wade/Bosh? Really? Compared to all these other big names, Wade/Bosh is all he had. And not to mention that these two players aren't really the perfect fit for James. Neither Wade/Bosh are better scorer's/rebounder's/defender's/passer's/and leader's.

1) Pippen was a better passer and defender than Jordan. Rodman was the best rebounder the game ever saw.
2) Magic was the best passer and leader for his squad and Kareem was fairly old.
3) KAJ was the better scorer and rebounder and defender.. Some could say Worthy was the better scorer than Magic.
4) Shaq better rebounder, scorer, and leader. Gasol better rebounder.
5) Kobe better scorer, passer, and defender.
6) Parker better passer but this Spurs team was overly dominant in all facets so it's hard to give Duncan all the credit for everything.
7) McHale better rebounder, Parish better defender and rebounder. Actually, in one of those years, McHale was better than Bird IMO.
8) By the time West and Goodrich came along, Wilt wasn't their best scorer nor passer.
9) Hakeem best everything.
10) What does Wade/Bosh do better than James? Literally nothing. When you have a wing player, you need rebounders, defenders, and passers. James has neither of that because he is that. Wade is better than Pippen individually, Bosh and Rodman are equal in my eyes. Bosh is better offensively but Rodman makes him look like a bug on defense. But Wade/Bosh don't fit into the ideal dominant wing player complimentary pieces as well as other combinations we have seen.

koreancabbage
06-30-2014, 02:52 PM
James is the only player in the top 20 to have so many excuses. The more he teams up the more he slides out of the top 20. So because of a single series the heat are not stacked? Just because certain players out played superstars.

In 2012 Chalmers and miller outplayed harden. Ibaka did nothing for them. 2013 a hurt and awful wade out scored every single spurs player. Wade had more reb and asst then 90% of the spurs players. Ginobli was out played by Allen and mills sat on the bench being fat. So if James losing with Cleveland and this Miami team get a pass we can't count his wins over Okc and spurs.

So how can James be anywhere near the top 10 when he can only win if he has every advantage possible in a matchup. No one in the top 10 needed that much to win a title but James had that much and lost twice with it.

didn't seem like he had any advantage this playoff run. Every Spurs player > every Miami player not named James. and last year, Miami almost lost as well because Spurs were still a better all round team than Miami,

Even if you think the Miami Heat are stacked. all round production from Wade and Bosh was sporadic. They showed up when it mattered in 2012 and 2013. Bosh scored like 0 points in game 7.

Miami is only stacked in terms of names, production does not reflect the names on this team.

only Lebron is focussed because his career totals as a player would surpass almost all players when its all said and done - thats why he's the focus of this discussion but its the same discussion for all stars: Kobe, Duncan etc etc. 15 years of dominance from each player but only 5 championships - the biggest stars of their era --> not enough help. This team up thing is gonna continue with him and other players. so don't be an idiot in bringing that argument.

if the general consensus is that he is gonna be top 10 and you think he slides out of the top 20 --> you have low basketball IQ

Bostonjorge
06-30-2014, 02:57 PM
Delete

XpLiCiTT
06-30-2014, 02:58 PM
Funny how only 1 team u listed is playing now and they are old. Why not name a list of players that play in the east now to prove Miami is not stacked.

All the teams u listed had to play another team u listed so they had to play each other. Miami had to play Brooklyn. See the difference.

English please?

Bostonjorge
06-30-2014, 02:58 PM
James deserves a pass for 2007 and 2014 but not 2011. No one is defending him for 2011. 2014 was another case. Uhm, 2014 it wasn't stacked. Wade was injured 30% of the season or whatever he was doing. Bosh barely grabbed 6 rebounds and he was their center. Bosh didn't play well in the playoffs - certainly not worth 20m him and Wade get paid. Wade was good up until the Finals but still - he was horrific in the finals. James was great the entire playoffs. Miami lost twice, not James. Love how you single out James - which indicates you think NBA is an individual game.

Let's take a look at top 10 players and their cast.

1) Jordan - Pippen/Rodman/arguably GOAT coach in Phil. Greatest coach, greatest rebounder, greatest defender as his cast?
2) KAJ - Another top 5 coach Pat Riley with Magic (Many regard him as the 2nd best player), Worthy, Wilkes, Nixon. Wilkes was a top 15 player at that time. Oh yeah, Big O?
3) Magic - Same with KAJ.
4) Kobe - Shaq is literally enough. Need I say more? Phil, Gasol, Odom? I mean he had Shaq..
5) Shaq - Wade, Kobe, Phil Jackson, Pat Riley.
6) Duncan - Pop, Parker, Robinson (Short but he was there to help Duncan transition), Ginobili, and all around solid cast.
7) Larry Bird - He only played with Kevin McHale, Parish, and Dennis Johnson.
8) Wilt - West, McMillian, Goodrich? Wilt wasn't even the best on that team.
9) Hakeem - Only player I can say that carried his team to a championship with the least amount of help. Which says a lot considering Hakeem is way up there.
10) James - Wade/Bosh? Really? Compared to all these other big names, Wade/Bosh is all he had. And not to mention that these two players aren't really the perfect fit for James. Neither Wade/Bosh are better scorer's/rebounder's/defender's/passer's/and leader's.

1) Pippen was a better passer and defender than Jordan. Rodman was the best rebounder the game ever saw.
2) Magic was the best passer and leader for his squad and Kareem was fairly old.
3) KAJ was the better scorer and rebounder and defender.. Some could say Worthy was the better scorer than Magic.
4) Shaq better rebounder, scorer, and leader. Gasol better rebounder.
5) Kobe better scorer, passer, and defender.
6) Parker better passer but this Spurs team was overly dominant in all facets so it's hard to give Duncan all the credit for everything.
7) McHale better rebounder, Parish better defender and rebounder. Actually, in one of those years, McHale was better than Bird IMO.
8) By the time West and Goodrich came along, Wilt wasn't their best scorer nor passer.
9) Hakeem best everything.
10) What does Wade/Bosh do better than James? Literally nothing. When you have a wing player, you need rebounders, defenders, and passers. James has neither of that because he is that. Wade is better than Pippen individually, Bosh and Rodman are equal in my eyes. Bosh is better offensively but Rodman makes him look like a bug on defense. But Wade/Bosh don't fit into the ideal dominant wing player complimentary pieces as well as other combinations we have seen.

Funny how only 1 team u listed is playing now and they are old. Why not name a list of players that play in the east now to prove Miami is not stacked.

All the teams u listed had to play another team u listed so they had to play each other. Miami had to play Brooklyn. See the difference

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 02:59 PM
James is the only player in the top 20 to have so many excuses. The more he teams up the more he slides out of the top 20. So because of a single series the heat are not stacked? Just because certain players out played superstars.

In 2012 Chalmers and miller outplayed harden. Ibaka did nothing for them. 2013 a hurt and awful wade out scored every single spurs player. Wade had more reb and asst then 90% of the spurs players. Ginobli was out played by Allen and mills sat on the bench being fat. So if James losing with Cleveland and this Miami team get a pass we can't count his wins over Okc and spurs.

So how can James be anywhere near the top 10 when he can only win if he has every advantage possible in a matchup. No one in the top 10 needed that much to win a title but James had that much and lost twice with it.^

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 03:00 PM
James is the only player in the top 20 to have so many excuses. The more he teams up the more he slides out of the top 20. So because of a single series the heat are not stacked? Just because certain players out played superstars.

In 2012 Chalmers and miller outplayed harden. Ibaka did nothing for them. 2013 a hurt and awful wade out scored every single spurs player. Wade had more reb and asst then 90% of the spurs players. Ginobli was out played by Allen and mills sat on the bench being fat. So if James losing with Cleveland and this Miami team get a pass we can't count his wins over Okc and spurs.

So how can James be anywhere near the top 10 when he can only win if he has every advantage possible in a matchup. No one in the top 10 needed that much to win a title but James had that much and lost twice with it.

lol @@ one series, they haven't been stacked since 2011,

Yet they still has the best squad on Paper. Get real! No one the last 4 years has had more help than Lebron

bucketss
06-30-2014, 03:01 PM
Funny how only 1 team u listed is playing now and they are old. Why not name a list of players that play in the east now to prove Miami is not stacked.

All the teams u listed had to play another team u listed so they had to play each other. Miami had to play Brooklyn. See the difference

miami is older.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 03:01 PM
Your basketball IQ is just way to low.

says the dude that thinks an injured wade in 2012 makes miami stacked. lmao u do realize if you combine wade/bosh scoring numbers it almost equals shaqs during some playoff series right? LOL

Buckets read the sig. And do you remember saying Lebron point shaved the finals away in 2010 so wade wouldn't get finals MVP. You're all over the place.

bucketss
06-30-2014, 03:02 PM
Yet they still has the best squad I. Paper. Get real

was this suppose to be in English?

FlashBolt
06-30-2014, 03:04 PM
Funny how only 1 team u listed is playing now and they are old. Why not name a list of players that play in the east now to prove Miami is not stacked.

All the teams u listed had to play another team u listed so they had to play each other. Miami had to play Brooklyn. See the difference

1) Miami is older than the Spurs. I believe they are the oldest team in the NBA.
2) Doesn't that help the argument that Miami aren't stacked because the East is a weak conference? Welp, thanks for adding more fuel to my argument.

bucketss
06-30-2014, 03:05 PM
Buckets read the sig. And do you remember saying Lebron point shaved the finals away in 2010 so wade wouldn't get finals MVP. You're all over the place.

he didn't point shave, i said he got jealous of wade being the man and it messed with his head. after re watching that series theres a lot of theories i have, definitely a sports phenomenon.. how the king of basketball lost his talent.

bucketss
06-30-2014, 03:06 PM
and it was 2011 not 2010, lmao funny because thats when your lakers won :rolleyes:

XpLiCiTT
06-30-2014, 03:08 PM
Yet they still has the best squad on Paper. Get real! No one the last 4 years has had more help than Lebron

The Heat are the oldest team in the NBA. Wade sucks at this point, Bosh is inconsistent. The rest of the roster is pathetic. They do not have the "best squad on paper", at all.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 03:10 PM
Funny how only 1 team u listed is playing now and they are old. Why not name a list of players that play in the east now to prove Miami is not stacked.

All the teams u listed had to play another team u listed so they had to play each other. Miami had to play Brooklyn. See the difference

1) Miami is older than the Spurs. I believe they are the oldest team in the NBA.
2) Doesn't that help the argument that Miami aren't stacked because the East is a weak conference? Welp, thanks for adding more fuel to my argument.


The spurs core is older than the heats core. Lebron is in his absolute prime, and get dethroned for his finals MVP by a second year player.

ManRam
06-30-2014, 03:10 PM
Admittedly sometimes I gloss over posts from some people here. My bad to the guy who asked.

For me it's the circumstances surrounding a player. How he overcomes adversity, how he handles pressure, etc. Things that you actually have to watch the game to see. LeBron is a freak of nature, so his numbers should be awesome, and they are. But he doesn't seem to have that hunger, that ultimate drive that makes me say there is no stopping this guy. He's lost more than he's won in the finals. For me, if he's this awesome guy that his fans portray him to be, there should be no excuse for him having lost twice in Miami with a stacked team. I'll give him a pass for that Cleveland finals. Just getting there was legit in my eyes.

I mean, it's common thought now that after a loss/bad game LeBron is going to go off. We're at the point where we expect LeBron just to wreak havoc in those games...and he does. He's posted the best elimination game numbers we've ever seen. He looks plenty hungry out there. Yes, he's had a bad series (or two, actually), but that happens. Aside from those, I just don't see the same thing you're seeing. I think he's a tremendous competitior who comes up big when it's needed. Even the "clutch" talk has been more or less proven to be false.

But that's fine. Eye tests aren't quantifiable, so it's to be expected that people see different things.

ManRam
06-30-2014, 03:11 PM
Yet they still has the best squad on Paper. Get real! No one the last 4 years has had more help than Lebron

Did you see how that squad played in the Finals this year? What's it matter how good they are on paper if they don't show up when it counts? Gotta get past those names, man.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 03:11 PM
Buckets read the sig. And do you remember saying Lebron point shaved the finals away in 2010 so wade wouldn't get finals MVP. You're all over the place.

he didn't point shave, i said he got jealous of wade being the man and it messed with his head. after re watching that series theres a lot of theories i have, definitely a sports phenomenon.. how the king of basketball lost his talent.

Thanks for clearing up how lost you are:laugh2:

In sports it's called choking, that's your lesson for the day.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 03:13 PM
Yet they still has the best squad on Paper. Get real! No one the last 4 years has had more help than Lebron

The Heat are the oldest team in the NBA. Wade sucks at this point, Bosh is inconsistent. The rest of the roster is pathetic. They do not have the "best squad on paper", at all.

They steamed their division and everyone was calling then a top five dynasty team ever. They get their ***** beat by a well coached team and now they're trash? Lol

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 03:14 PM
Yet they still has the best squad on Paper. Get real! No one the last 4 years has had more help than Lebron

Did you see how that squad played in the Finals this year? What's it matter how good they are on paper if they don't show up when it counts? Gotta get past those names, man.

I'm sorry the spurs play better team ball, and Leonard outplayed Lebron. You got to get over your love for Lebron man

bucketss
06-30-2014, 03:15 PM
The spurs core is older than the heats core. Lebron is in his absolute prime, and get dethroned for his finals MVP by a second year player.

u mean third year player, lmao u keep embarrassing yourself. lmaooo, wade is 32, bosh is 30, wade is younger than guys like ginobli and duncan, but those guys are not as reliant on athleticism as wade so wades decline obviously hits him harder.

Bostonjorge
06-30-2014, 03:16 PM
1) Miami is older than the Spurs. I believe they are the oldest team in the NBA.
2) Doesn't that help the argument that Miami aren't stacked because the East is a weak conference? Welp, thanks for adding more fuel to my argument.

Your comparing Miami to teams from the past. I'm comparing Miami to there competition. Miami didn't play kobe, magic and bird. They been playing bucks, Charlotte, Brooklyn, bulls and Indy in the playoffs. When I compare Miami to the teams they been playing it concludes that Miami is just to stacked for these teams to compete.

I do agree that the east is weak and any player in the top 20 ever can go 4 to finals in 4 years easily out east.

bucketss
06-30-2014, 03:16 PM
Thanks for clearing up how lost you are:laugh2:

In sports it's called choking, that's your lesson for the day.

im not denying the choke job,

XpLiCiTT
06-30-2014, 03:17 PM
They steamed their division and everyone was calling then a top five dynasty team ever. They get their ***** beat by a well coached team and now they're trash? Lol

Dude, if you can't realize that the Heat are far worse than when the big 3 first was assembled then I truly don't know what to tell you. And you say that like the Spurs are JUST a well coached team, they were the best team in the league BY FAR.

They're not trash, but they're on the decline and getting old. It's pretty obvious they need to add some pieces back to the puzzle.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 03:19 PM
The spurs core is older than the heats core. Lebron is in his absolute prime, and get dethroned for his finals MVP by a second year player.

u mean third year player, lmao u keep embarrassing yourself. lmaooo, wade is 32, bosh is 30, wade is younger than guys like ginobli and duncan, but those guys are not as reliant on athleticism as wade so wades decline obviously hits him harder.
:violin:

XpLiCiTT
06-30-2014, 03:19 PM
Your comparing Miami to teams from the past. I'm comparing Miami to there competition. Miami didn't play kobe, magic and bird. They been playing bucks, Charlotte, Brooklyn, bulls and Indy in the playoffs. When I compare Miami to the teams they been playing it concludes that Miami is just to stacked for these teams to compete.

I do agree that the east is weak and any player in the top 20 ever can go 4 to finals in 4 years easily out east.

The East is obviously so weak and Miami has it easy. But don't put that against LeBron. Look at his record against western conference teams, it's amazing.

Bostonjorge
06-30-2014, 03:22 PM
The Bucks made the playoffs?

Last year they played Miami. It was the big 3 vs the mighty Jennings. Next rd it was against the bulls who were being led by Nate Robinson. Let me guess these teams had just as much talent as Miami right.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 03:25 PM
They steamed their division and everyone was calling then a top five dynasty team ever. They get their ***** beat by a well coached team and now they're trash? Lol

Dude, if you can't realize that the Heat are far worse than when the big 3 first was assembled then I truly don't know what to tell you. And you say that like the Spurs are JUST a well coached team, they were the best team in the league BY FAR.

They're not trash, but they're on the decline and getting old. It's pretty obvious they need to add some pieces back to the puzzle.

You act like they don't have good pieces. The Heat beat the spurs last year so why should they get an excuse this year. You keep saying they're getting older but fail to realize the core of the spurs is ready to retire. Lebron got owned up by kid and now you guys are upset about it. How much help does Lebron need to win a ring,would Chris Paul and Howard do it for you guys?

ManRam
06-30-2014, 03:26 PM
I'm sorry the spurs play better team ball, and Leonard outplayed Lebron. You got to get over your love for Lebron man

You act like it's me that has the problem ;)

But you dodged my point.

XpLiCiTT
06-30-2014, 03:27 PM
I'm sorry the spurs play better team ball, and Leonard outplayed Lebron. You got to get over your love for Lebron man

Leonard averaged 18, 6, and 2 in the finals.

LeBron averaged 28, 8 and 4 in the finals.

Wouldn't exactly say Leonard outplayed LeBron..it was more of the Spurs just murdering the Heat.

bucketss
06-30-2014, 03:28 PM
You act like they don't have good pieces. The Heat beat the spurs last year so why should they get an excuse this year. You keep saying they're getting older but fail to realize the core of the spurs is ready to retire. Lebron got owned up by kid and now you guys are upset about it. How much help does Lebron need to win a ring,would Chris Paul and Howard do it for you guys?

he has enough to win, they're just not stacked.. what part of that you don't get?

Bostonjorge
06-30-2014, 03:30 PM
Leonard averaged 18, 6, and 2 in the finals.

LeBron averaged 28, 8 and 4 in the finals.

Wouldn't exactly say Leonard outplayed LeBron..it was more of the Spurs just murdering the Heat.
Where are the turnover stats?

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 03:30 PM
I'm sorry the spurs play better team ball, and Leonard outplayed Lebron. You got to get over your love for Lebron man

Leonard averaged 18, 6, and 2 in the finals.

LeBron averaged 28, 8 and 4 in the finals.

Wouldn't exactly say Leonard outplayed LeBron..it was more of the Spurs just murdering the Heat.

Go look at the final three ganes, two of which came in Miami

XpLiCiTT
06-30-2014, 03:33 PM
You act like they don't have good pieces. The Heat beat the spurs last year so why should they get an excuse this year. You keep saying they're getting older but fail to realize the core of the spurs is ready to retire. Lebron got owned up by kid and now you guys are upset about it. How much help does Lebron need to win a ring,would Chris Paul and Howard do it for you guys?

Please go in to depth about these good pieces the Heat have. And then compare it to the Spurs for me. These "players that are ready to retire" on the Spurs, are still playing at a VERY high level. Wade can barely even walk.

Besides Duncan and Ginobili, who is retiring? They still have Kawhi, Parker, Green, Mills, and a few other role players.

XpLiCiTT
06-30-2014, 03:36 PM
Where are the turnover stats?

Kawhi doesn't have the ball in his hands as much as LeBron and they run COMPLETELY different offenses. Kawhi also isn't getting double and triple teamed. But yes Captain Obvious, LeBron turned it over more if that makes you happy..?

XpLiCiTT
06-30-2014, 03:38 PM
Go look at the final three ganes, two of which came in Miami

Like I said, it was more of just the Spurs dominating the Heat. You have to understand the depth, coaching, and way the Spurs run their offense. I am not discrediting Kawhi, he played great in those games.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 03:50 PM
You act like they don't have good pieces. The Heat beat the spurs last year so why should they get an excuse this year. You keep saying they're getting older but fail to realize the core of the spurs is ready to retire. Lebron got owned up by kid and now you guys are upset about it. How much help does Lebron need to win a ring,would Chris Paul and Howard do it for you guys?

Please go in to depth about these good pieces the Heat have. And then compare it to the Spurs for me. These "players that are ready to retire" on the Spurs, are still playing at a VERY high level. Wade can barely even walk.

Besides Duncan and Ginobili, who is retiring? They still have Kawhi, Parker, Green, Mills, and a few other role players.

Duncan did his thing, Parker was average, and luckily Gino didn't suck *** like last year. But they are still much older than the heats core. Outside of Leonard , the spurs have nothing but system players.The heat got outplayed plain and simple.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 03:51 PM
Go look at the final three ganes, two of which came in Miami

Like I said, it was more of just the Spurs dominating the Heat. You have to understand the depth, coaching, and way the Spurs run their offense. I am not discrediting Kawhi, he played great in those games.

Is that your way of admitting Leonard outplayed Lebron and took his finals MVP?

XpLiCiTT
06-30-2014, 04:00 PM
Is that your way of admitting Leonard outplayed Lebron and took his finals MVP?

No it is my way of saying you don't understand basketball.


Duncan did his thing, Parker was average, and luckily Gino didn't suck *** like last year. But they are still much older than the heats core. Outside of Leonard , the spurs have nothing but system players.The heat got outplayed plain and simple.

Again you fail to realize the health of the players. First off Parker is the same age as Wade (actually a few months younger). Duncan at his age is still better than what Bosh has been. And Kawhi is more of a core player than Ginobili at this point and moving forward.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 04:14 PM
Is that your way of admitting Leonard outplayed Lebron and took his finals MVP?

No it is my way of saying you don't understand basketball.


Duncan did his thing, Parker was average, and luckily Gino didn't suck *** like last year. But they are still much older than the heats core. Outside of Leonard , the spurs have nothing but system players.The heat got outplayed plain and simple.

Again you fail to realize the health of the players. First off Parker is the same age as Wade (actually a few months younger). Duncan at his age is still better than what Bosh has been. And Kawhi is more of a core player than Ginobili at this point and moving forward.

Come on bro, the Lebron apologizing has to stop at some point. He got destroyed in 07, beat up on by terry in 11, did very good vs Durant and Bo in 12, beat down again in 13 but saved by Allen, and then put down by Leonard in 14. He's a great talent, he's just not able to beat the best of the best most of the time.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 04:16 PM
The player who cost a finals series in 2004 playing on a team alongside Shaq, Malone, Payton should never ever sniff any top 20 list. If LeBron had a stacked team this year then that 2004 team that contained Shaq, Payton, Malone, and that ballhog SG was the greatest team assembled ever. That team lost the finals to a team without a superstar lmfao. So no top 10, top 20 please. Iverson or Vince or T-Mac could have earned more than 3 rings with a prime Shaq in 8 years easily.

Yeah let's not mention that Malone and Payton were 40:laugh: and this thread is about Lebron you troll so go hide under your rock. This is almost sig worthy if buckets didn't fail so hard.

ManRam
06-30-2014, 04:18 PM
Yeah let's not mention that Malone and Payton were 40:laugh: and this thread is about Lebron you troll so go hide under your rock. This is almost ago worthy if buckets didn't fail so hard.

So you're willing to provide context to Karl and Payton, but not these Heat players. That's not hypocritical!

hotdalton18
06-30-2014, 04:18 PM
He's 29 and already in the top 10 lmao

Get serious

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 04:19 PM
Yeah let's not mention that Malone and Payton were 40:laugh: and this thread is about Lebron you troll so go hide under your rock. This is almost ago worthy if buckets didn't fail so hard.

So you're willing to provide context to Karl and Payton, but not these Heat players. That's not hypocritical!wade and bosh are not that old! They looked. Pretty damn good vs every team but the spurs.

Bostonjorge
06-30-2014, 04:40 PM
wade and bosh are not that old! They looked. Pretty damn good vs every team but the spurs.

This will always be ignored because u can't use the first 3 series to explain how terrible wade and bosh played.

DWNTWNLakeShow
06-30-2014, 05:06 PM
There has never been a player who has won it alone.

MJ had two hall of famers on his team that weren't him and a great shooting pg.
Kobe had the best center of all time and then had another half of famer in Pau Gasol, a great center at the time in Bynum and a very good player in Lamar Odom.

The whole "couldn't do it alone" thing is incredibly idiotic because nobody has ever won it alone.

Kobe only played with one other superstar (shaq) during his early years, the rest were just role players.
Threw 2007-2012 he played with only 1 superstar in Pau Gasol and borderline star at the time in Bynum. LO was just a role player as well. Tell me how Kobe's 2009 and 2010 teams compare to Lebrons Heat with Three total Superstars! Not just role players but stars; now if they go out and get another allstar how does that not affect Lebrons Legacy

bucketss
06-30-2014, 05:08 PM
This will always be ignored because u can't use the first 3 series to explain how terrible wade and bosh played.

yeah because its the first time wade showed signs of declining :rolleyes:. and wade is on the wrong side of 32, he is heavily reliant on his athleticism since he can't shoot, and apparently he can't play defence now

bucketss
06-30-2014, 05:15 PM
Kobe only played with one other superstar (shaq) during his early years, the rest were just role players.
Threw 2007-2012 he played with only 1 superstar in Pau Gasol and borderline star at the time in Bynum. LO was just a role player as well. Tell me how Kobe's 2009 and 2010 teams compare to Lebrons Heat with Three total Superstars! Not just role players but stars; now if they go out and get another allstar how does that not affect Lebrons Legacy

bosh was never a superstar, he was a very good pf that put up numbers on a bad raptors team.

btw shaq >> both wade and bosh, and everyone and their mamas would take shaq over both those guys

Vinylman
06-30-2014, 05:22 PM
bosh was never a superstar, he was a very good pf that put up numbers on a bad raptors team.

btw shaq >> both wade and bosh, and everyone and their mamas would take shaq over both those guys


ladies and gentlemen ... history being rewritten one lie at a time

bucketss
06-30-2014, 05:28 PM
ladies and gentlemen ... history being rewritten one lie at a time

nothing i said was a lie, i watched bosh in Toronto for 7 years, never felt he was a superstar. he led us to one winning season. he also made only ONE all nba team during those 7 years, how many superstars are like that? name one

Bostonjorge
06-30-2014, 05:35 PM
nothing i said was a lie, i watched bosh in Toronto for 7 years, never felt he was a superstar. he led us to one winning season. he also made only ONE all nba team during those 7 years, how many superstars are like that? name one
So bosh and gasol are not superstars then. Gasol never won a playoff game or made any all nba teams. Once he went to LA his best season there still never got him to a 1st all nba team. Yet he was enough for kobe to go back to back.

DWNTWNLakeShow
06-30-2014, 05:38 PM
So bosh and gasol are not superstars then. Gasol never won a playoff game or made any all nba teams. Once he went to LA his best season there still never got him to a 1st all nba team. Yet he was enough for kobe to go back to back.

Yes, Thank you!!

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 05:44 PM
ladies and gentlemen ... history being rewritten one lie at a time

nothing i said was a lie, i watched bosh in Toronto for 7 years, never felt he was a superstar. he led us to one winning season. he also made only ONE all nba team during those 7 years, how many superstars are like that? name one

Kevin love

bucketss
06-30-2014, 05:44 PM
So bosh and gasol are not superstars then. Gasol never won a playoff game or made any all nba teams. Once he went to LA his best season there still never got him to a 1st all nba team. Yet he was enough for kobe to go back to back.

gasol was not a superstar in my definition, superstars are the best players in the league,and yeah must be so hard going back to back against Orlando and broken down celts..

btw gasol made all nba team every year in LA, when they were competing. bosh has made it once his whole career period.

bucketss
06-30-2014, 05:46 PM
Kevin love

kevin love has made two all nba 2nd teams.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 05:46 PM
So bosh and gasol are not superstars then. Gasol never won a playoff game or made any all nba teams. Once he went to LA his best season there still never got him to a 1st all nba team. Yet he was enough for kobe to go back to back.

gasol was not a superstar in my definition, superstars are the best players in the league,and yeah must be so hard going back to back against Orlando and broken down celts..

btw gasol made all nba team every year in LA, when they were competing. bosh has made it once his whole career period.

You mean the magic and celtics who beat the **** out of the Vegas favorite Cavs?

bucketss
06-30-2014, 05:52 PM
You mean the magic and celtics who beat the **** out of the Vegas favorite Cavs?

yeah they beat the cavs, who was on that team lebron and...? ...? i honestly forget can you help me out here, ummm mo williams,,... and .... ummm

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 05:54 PM
You mean the magic and celtics who beat the **** out of the Vegas favorite Cavs?

yeah they beat the cavs, who was on that team lebron and...? ...? i honestly forget can you help me out here, ummm mo williams,,... and .... ummm

"Vegas favorites"

lol, please
06-30-2014, 06:52 PM
This poll is laughable and an accurate reflection of what a laughing stock the NBA forum is.

XpLiCiTT
06-30-2014, 07:02 PM
Come on bro, the Lebron apologizing has to stop at some point. He got destroyed in 07, beat up on by terry in 11, did very good vs Durant and Bo in 12, beat down again in 13 but saved by Allen, and then put down by Leonard in 14. He's a great talent, he's just not able to beat the best of the best most of the time.

Saved by Allen? Ok thanks you verified for me that you're clearly just a LeBron hater. LeBron averaged 25, 11, and 7 that series. But yeah keep trying to discredit anything he's ever accomplished.

Nobody could have been in LeBrons shoes this year with that supporting cast and beat this Spurs team with how well they were playing. NO ONE.

The fact that you're even trying to bash him for losing to the Spurs when he was young and on the Cavs is comical. And then you go on to say he got "beat down in 13", and "beat by Leonard in 14"..you're knowledge is abysmal.

RB#20
06-30-2014, 07:35 PM
LeBron will not only be listed in the top 10 of all time but could be the best when it's all said and done. I can't wait for the day when professional sports stops judging individual players on how many TEAM championships they win just. It's deceptive marketing at it's finest.

Bostonjorge
06-30-2014, 07:43 PM
James is in the 17-20 range. That's a good spot him. I'm even ignoring him leading his team to the worst beat down in history. Teaming up with 2 other superstars and still losing twice. Winning 2 rings against much weaker competition. Having a losing record in the finals. Complaining and crying in the media every chance he gets. No one in the top 20 had this only James.

After I ignore all this I have him in 17-20 range right behind Durant at 16 but the more he teams up and still loses he only starts to slip out of the top 20.

bucketss
06-30-2014, 07:47 PM
James is in the 17-20 range. That's a good spot him. I'm even ignoring him leading his team to the worst beat down in history. Teaming up with 2 other superstars and still losing twice. Winning 2 rings against much weaker competition. Having a losing record in the finals. Complaining and crying in the media every chance he gets. No one in the top 20 had this only James.

After I ignore all this I have him in 17-20 range right behind Durant at 16 but the more he teams up and still loses he only starts to slip out of the top 20.

welcome to my ignore list. you're also going in my sig congrats.

Jamiecballer
06-30-2014, 07:49 PM
James is in the 17-20 range. That's a good spot him. I'm even ignoring him leading his team to the worst beat down in history. Teaming up with 2 other superstars and still losing twice. Winning 2 rings against much weaker competition. Having a losing record in the finals. Complaining and crying in the media every chance he gets. No one in the top 20 had this only James.

After I ignore all this I have him in 17-20 range right behind Durant at 16 but the more he teams up and still loses he only starts to slip out of the top 20.
Are you not tired of cutting and pasting the exact same post in every thread? Its so word for word there is no doubt in my mind that you constantly have a file open in Microsoft Word titled '******** about James; PSD edition" just ready to go

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 07:49 PM
Come on bro, the Lebron apologizing has to stop at some point. He got destroyed in 07, beat up on by terry in 11, did very good vs Durant and Bo in 12, beat down again in 13 but saved by Allen, and then put down by Leonard in 14. He's a great talent, he's just not able to beat the best of the best most of the time.

Saved by Allen? Ok thanks you verified for me that you're clearly just a LeBron hater. LeBron averaged 25, 11, and 7 that series. But yeah keep trying to discredit anything he's ever accomplished.

Nobody could have been in LeBrons shoes this year with that supporting cast and beat this Spurs team with how well they were playing. NO ONE.

The fact that you're even trying to bash him for losing to the Spurs when he was young and on the Cavs is comical. And then you go on to say he got "beat down in 13", and "beat by Leonard in 14"..you're knowledge is abysmal.

If the series would have ended in six lebrons stats were laughable. Everyone in the world knows he didn't have a good series outside game 7. Not to mention he stat padded in 3/7 games. Keep making your excuses for the guy but his finals wins and record speaks for it's self.

jerellh528
06-30-2014, 07:51 PM
James is in the 17-20 range. That's a good spot him. I'm even ignoring him leading his team to the worst beat down in history. Teaming up with 2 other superstars and still losing twice. Winning 2 rings against much weaker competition. Having a losing record in the finals. Complaining and crying in the media every chance he gets. No one in the top 20 had this only James.

After I ignore all this I have him in 17-20 range right behind Durant at 16 but the more he teams up and still loses he only starts to slip out of the top 20.

That's too low, he's at least in the 11-15 range for sure. Although he doesn't have what the other greats do, he does have the individual stats stuffed enough to get him some recognition among the greats. When it's all said and done I could see him being behind mj, kaj, wilt, Kobe, Duncan, shaq. So about 7th.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 07:54 PM
James is in the 17-20 range. That's a good spot him. I'm even ignoring him leading his team to the worst beat down in history. Teaming up with 2 other superstars and still losing twice. Winning 2 rings against much weaker competition. Having a losing record in the finals. Complaining and crying in the media every chance he gets. No one in the top 20 had this only James.

After I ignore all this I have him in 17-20 range right behind Durant at 16 but the more he teams up and still loses he only starts to slip out of the top 20.

That's too low, he's at least in the 11-15 range for sure. Although he doesn't have what the other greats do, he does have the individual stats stuffed enough to get him some recognition among the greats. When it's all said and done I could see him being behind mj, kaj, wilt, Kobe, Duncan, shaq. So about 7th.

:laugh2: Boston had some solid points but sometimes goes over board. Your post is spot on tho.

bucketss
06-30-2014, 07:55 PM
If the series would have ended in six lebrons stats were laughable. Everyone in the world knows he didn't have a good series outside game 7. Not to mention he stat padded in 3/7 games. Keep making your excuses for the guy but his finals wins and record speaks for it's self.

but it didn't end in six, and lebron pushed it to 7 and than dominated in game 7.

bucketss
06-30-2014, 07:57 PM
:laugh2: Boston had some solid points but sometimes goes over board. Your post is spot on tho.


That's too low, he's at least in the 11-15 range for sure. Although he doesn't have what the other greats do, he does have the individual stats stuffed enough to get him some recognition among the greats. When it's all said and done I could see him being behind mj, kaj, wilt, Kobe, Duncan, shaq. So about 7th.

you know your post sucked when two of the biggest lebron haters/kobe fans disagree with you, dude said durant at 16 :laugh:

ManRam
06-30-2014, 08:05 PM
Jesus Christ...

How many horses must y'all bludgeon?

:horse: :horse: :horse: :horse: :horse: :horse: :horse: :horse: :horse:

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-30-2014, 08:05 PM
If the series would have ended in six lebrons stats were laughable. Everyone in the world knows he didn't have a good series outside game 7. Not to mention he stat padded in 3/7 games. Keep making your excuses for the guy but his finals wins and record speaks for it's self.

but it didn't end in six, and lebron pushed it to 7 and than dominated in game 7.

The greatest shot of all time sent it to game seven. Lebron missed the biggest shot of his career prior to ray saving him.

bucketss
06-30-2014, 08:08 PM
The greatest shot of all time sent it to game seven. Lebron missed the biggest shot of his career prior to ray saving him.

i think 18 fourth quarter pt's, which will be remembered as the "no head band game" had more to do with it, than a single shot worth 3 points, although the timing of that shot made it more special.

rocket
06-30-2014, 09:06 PM
bruh

FYL_McVeezy
06-30-2014, 09:11 PM
It's funny cuz I just said to myself how we needed some more LBJ threads on here...

ManRam
06-30-2014, 09:14 PM
I'm moving on. Like I said a few posts back, all anyone is doing here is just beating a dead horse. Ideally people just move along since their points have been made. This is just a message board and people can say what they want tho...so be it. I've always respected you, Jerrellh, more than the people you get grouped in with. You're always willing to go back and forth and respond to points. That's all one can ask for.

Rush
06-30-2014, 09:19 PM
You guys needs to stay on topic and quit the baiting. This thread is about LeBron and whether he will be a top player of all-time. Not Kobe, LeBron. If you don't like LeBron, fine, then don't post in here. If you don't think he will be a top 10 player, voice your opinion, but do it respectfully without the intention to antagonize or bait other posters or groups.

Remember that there is a zero tolerance policy in effect still.

Tony_Starks
06-30-2014, 09:20 PM
He'll crack top 10. Easy. As much as the Lebron apologist, idolaters, and agenda pushers annoy me it's hard to imagine he won't be there.

I will say this summer is crucial though. He runs again to take the easy route and he catches an epic fail and legacy hit.

JordansBulls
06-30-2014, 10:00 PM
Dumb thread. Better question is top 4 all time basically mount rushmoore top 4 all time

Jeffy25
06-30-2014, 10:02 PM
Thread title doesn't match poll question.

Alayla
07-01-2014, 02:54 PM
Lebron is allready top 10 people really need to stop riding his ***

Hawkeye15
07-01-2014, 04:42 PM
he is already top 10

Hawkeye15
07-01-2014, 04:43 PM
It's funny cuz I just said to myself how we needed some more LBJ threads on here...

hahahaha, this!

bagwell368
07-01-2014, 06:57 PM
Because it`s consensus Lebron is not or never be a top 10 player of all time

WTF? Get a job.

Tony_Starks
07-01-2014, 07:08 PM
Thread starter obviously doesn't know that "Lebron is already better than Magic and Bird EVER were."....... says the PSD lynch mob.

jerellh528
07-01-2014, 07:16 PM
Thread starter obviously doesn't know that "Lebron is already better than Magic and Bird EVER were."....... says the PSD lynch mob.

I made some huge adjustments to my top 10.

Mj
Kaj
Wilt
Kobe
Shaq
Hakeem
Duncan
Bird
Magic
Russell

FlashBolt
07-01-2014, 07:20 PM
I made some huge adjustments to my top 10.

Mj
Kaj
Wilt
Kobe
Shaq
Hakeem
Duncan
Bird
Magic
Russell

I have the same list but Russell is definitely not top 10 quality.

Tony_Starks
07-01-2014, 07:43 PM
I made some huge adjustments to my top 10.

Mj
Kaj
Wilt
Kobe
Shaq
Hakeem
Duncan
Bird
Magic
Russell

My order is different but I agree, these are the exact players on my top 10. I see Lebron passing The Dream (10th on my list) eventually, the rest remains to be seen.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-01-2014, 07:56 PM
He already is.

MrfadeawayJB
07-01-2014, 10:07 PM
He's arguably already a top 10 player all time.

This. Op is an obvious troll

Bostonjorge
07-01-2014, 10:54 PM
I made some huge adjustments to my top 10.

Mj
Kaj
Wilt
Kobe
Shaq
Hakeem
Duncan
Bird
Magic
Russell

Great list.

NBA_Starter
07-01-2014, 10:57 PM
This is about as false as they come.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-01-2014, 11:23 PM
He already is.lawl

amos1er
07-02-2014, 03:43 AM
To me it's 50/50 honestly. If he can win a ring with a non-super team against some pretty good competition and still be the best player on the court both impact wise and statistical wise, than it would be hard for me and others to argue against it. So far, he is 11-15 for me.

amos1er
07-02-2014, 03:44 AM
I won't vote on this poll because the question is too ambiguous and there should be another poll option for maybe IMO.

cahawk
07-02-2014, 04:21 AM
Lebron is already top 5 if not higher.

XpLiCiTT
07-02-2014, 04:26 AM
Lebron is already top 5 if not higher.

Most people on this site are LeBron haters, trolls, in denial, or all of the above.

More-Than-Most
07-02-2014, 05:20 AM
He is easily already top 7 and top 5 can be argued.

FraziersKnicks
07-02-2014, 05:46 AM
:laugh2: at Kobe being above Shaq, Hakeem, Magic and Bird…

More-Than-Most
07-02-2014, 05:52 AM
:laugh2: at Kobe being above Shaq, Hakeem, Magic and Bird…

and Duncan and James... I just ignore posts like that honestly

Munkeysuit
07-02-2014, 06:42 AM
I seriously can't even name 5 players all time that is better than he is right now, however, I will make an attempt...Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Wilt Chamberlain...I honestly haven't seen much of Bill Russell and I'd really hate to assume he was better just because of his rings, I can say Kobe still has a slight edge over Lebron as well. That is the best I can do! I would love to give Tim Duncan some credit but I am not so sure Tim Duncan even at his best could match LBJ, the difference between those 2 would be the amount of rings...so I guess thats it? Maybe Hakeem could be up there to above LBJ but not so much.

DemarDerozan
07-02-2014, 07:31 AM
Already in 8-10 range. Completely blew his top five chances this year. And LOL at all the Lebron gobblers who are making up excuses for his 2-4 finals record. You could also argue that in 2012 he was given a Finals win due to a shortened season and having a stacked team. You could also argue that he lost the 2013 Finals but RayRay won it for the Heat. So using your flawed theory Lebron could be 0-4 as well. But he's not. He is 2-4. Worse Finals record than MJ, Magic, Kobe and Timmy to name a few. And he took the easy route. There are no shortcuts to greatness.

DemarDerozan
07-02-2014, 07:34 AM
I seriously can't even name 5 players all time that is better than he is right now, however, I will make an attempt...Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Wilt Chamberlain...I honestly haven't seen much of Bill Russell and I'd really hate to assume he was better just because of his rings, I can say Kobe still has a slight edge over Lebron as well. That is the best I can do! I would love to give Tim Duncan some credit but I am not so sure Tim Duncan even at his best could match LBJ, the difference between those 2 would be the amount of rings...so I guess thats it? Maybe Hakeem could be up there to above LBJ but not so much.

There was this guy name Kareem. I heard he was pretty good.

DemarDerozan
07-02-2014, 07:35 AM
When all is said and done and the jerseys are retired LBJ will end up somewhere between Shaq and Moses Malone.

RLundi
07-02-2014, 12:40 PM
False.

He's already almost there. Unless the rest of his career implodes due to injury or drug use, or unless he dies, he's going to be in the top 10 assuredly.

RLundi
07-02-2014, 12:43 PM
welcome to my ignore list. you're also going in my sig congrats.

:laugh2:

Tony_Starks
07-02-2014, 12:45 PM
Whenever I see people say ridiculous stuff like "he's already top 5....." or "will probably end up from 1-3"... I would love for them to put their age. I'm guessing from like 16-24.

XpLiCiTT
07-02-2014, 12:56 PM
Already in 8-10 range. Completely blew his top five chances this year. And LOL at all the Lebron gobblers who are making up excuses for his 2-4 finals record.
That's just an ignorant and senseless statement. And his record is 2-3, get your facts straight. You can't blame him for losing with the Cavs, and this past finals he had no chance beating that Spurs team by himself. NO ONE could have been in his shoes and won that series with the way his teammates played.


You could also argue that in 2012 he was given a Finals win due to a shortened season and having a stacked team. You could also argue that he lost the 2013 Finals but RayRay won it for the Heat. So using your flawed theory Lebron could be 0-4 as well. But he's not. He is 2-4.
I don't know why I'm even responding to you, because you clearly don't have any clue what you're talking about. "Given a finals win due to a shortened season" and "RayRay won it for the Heat", give me a break. And no, he's 2-3, proving further more you have no clue what you're talking about.


Worse Finals record than MJ, Magic, Kobe and Timmy to name a few. And he took the easy route. There are no shortcuts to greatness.

LeBrons only finals loss there is no excuse for is 2011 against the Mavs. This past season and when in Cleveland he literally had no help at all.

XpLiCiTT
07-02-2014, 12:58 PM
Whenever I see people say ridiculous stuff like "he's already top 5....." or "will probably end up from 1-3"... I would love for them to put their age. I'm guessing from like 16-24.

Love or hate LeBron, right or wrong, that is not "ridiculous".

Chronz
07-02-2014, 01:37 PM
LOL I've never seen someone admit their rankings of a player can free fall.

Thats so *** backwards, what is set in stone should never be taken away. If a player has done enough to be deemed superior, anything else he provides in his career is only EXTRA. You should never be able to drop by playing more, thanks bostonjorge, I now know to put you in that same class with moser and +1

AIRMAR72
07-02-2014, 01:58 PM
simple answersrubbish

DemarDerozan
07-02-2014, 08:43 PM
That's just an ignorant and senseless statement. And his record is 2-3, get your facts straight. You can't blame him for losing with the Cavs, and this past finals he had no chance beating that Spurs team by himself. NO ONE could have been in his shoes and won that series with the way his teammates played.


I don't know why I'm even responding to you, because you clearly don't have any clue what you're talking about. "Given a finals win due to a shortened season" and "RayRay won it for the Heat", give me a break. And no, he's 2-3, proving further more you have no clue what you're talking about.



LeBrons only finals loss there is no excuse for is 2011 against the Mavs. This past season and when in Cleveland he literally had no help at all.

Still a losing record. But yeah I got it wrong. Still nowhere near top 7.

tnewkirk
07-02-2014, 08:45 PM
he's already top ten.

amos1er
07-02-2014, 10:08 PM
Yet they still has the best squad on Paper. Get real! No one the last 4 years has had more help than Lebron

Nope... No they haven't. The disparity in talent is like nothing I have seen before. Only Russell's Celtics had such an unfair advantage.

NBA_Starter
07-02-2014, 10:16 PM
This whole thread is a joke.

beliges
07-03-2014, 12:06 AM
Lebron will certainly crack the top 10 by the tim his career comes to an end. Some would even argue he's there just on his accomplishents up to this point. However with a couple of more championships, he can assure himself somewhere in the top 7 players to ever play the game. And at that point you can take your pick where you want to rank him in that top 7.

bucketss
07-03-2014, 12:11 AM
if there was no chance than this thread wouldn't be 12 pages long, some of you are in denial and its hilarious.

Pablonovi
07-03-2014, 01:21 AM
LeBron, Already In GOAT Top 10
To Even Be In The Discussion Of NBA GOAT Top 10, You Need 10+ Great Seasons

Here's the entire list of the 18 NBA(-ABA) players who have had at least 10 Great Regular Seasons (and the 4 guys with 9, who are just outside the main list):

This list is based on the yearly selection of: ALL-NBA(-ABA) 1st-Team & 2nd-Team:

Rank, Name, 1st-Teams+2nd-Teams; 1st, 2nd + 3rd-Teams; MVPs
1 Abdul-Jabbar, Kareem 15 10 5 +0 6
double gap
2 Bryant, Kobe 13 11 2 +2 1
3 Malone, Karl 13 11 2 +1 2
4 Duncan, Tim 13 10 3 +1 2
gap
5 West, Jerry 12 10 2 +0 0
6 Erving, Julius 12 9 3 +0 4 (MVP's: 3 ABA; 1 NBA)
gap
7 Jordan, Michael 11 10 1 +0 5
8 Robertson, Oscar 11 9 2 +0 1
mini-gap
9 Baylor, Elgin 10 10 0 +0 0
10 Johnson, Magic 10 9 1 +0 3
11 Bird, Larry 10 9 1 +0 3
12 Barry, Rick 10 9 1 +0 3
13 O'Neal, Shaquille 10 8 2 +4 1
14 James, Lebron 10 8 2 +0 4
15 Chamberlain, Wilt 10 7 3 +0 4
16 Havlicek, John 11 4 7 +0 0
17 Russell, Bill 11 3 8 +0 5
18 Barkley, Charles 10 5 5 +1 1
gap
19 Olajuwon, Hakeem 9 6 3 +3 1
20 Gervin, George 9 5 4 +3 1
21 Nowitzki, Dirk 9 4 5 +3 1
22 Malone, Moses 9 4 5 +3 1

So, this is the list of those players who have basically been the best or second best at their position (in the regular season) at least during 10 separate seasons. A very impressive list.
imo, if you have anybody in your GOAT Top 10 who is NOT on this list; then you're way wrong.

Where does LeBron rank within these All-Time GOAT Top 22?

Let's start by "eliminating" those players LBJ has already clearly passed, starting from the bottom (we'll start by listing those players just about everybody would agree that he's passed):

Moses Malone, Dirk Nowitzki, George Gervin, Charles Barkley, John Havlicek.

That's 5, leaving only 17.

Next group: Hakeem Olajuwon, Rick Barry, Bill Russell, Elgin Baylor.

That's 4, leaving only 13. In other words, he's already in the GOAT Top 13.

I'd say there's only 4 guys who are (so far) clearly better than LeBron:
KAJ, MJ, Magic & Wilt.

This leaves LeBron "competing" against the following 7 guys for spots 5-13 (in order of ALL-NBA Selections). If he's better than any 3 of these guys, then he's already in the GOAT All-Time Top 10:
Kobe Bryant
Karl Malone
Tim Duncan
Jerry West
Julius Erving
Oscar Robertson
Larry Bird
Shaquille O'Neal

I think most people (including myself) rank LeBron's career as better already than at least 3 of these guys; (we don't have to agree about which are the three); thus, he ALREADY IS IN THE GOAT Top 10.

Personally I have him already better than:
Larry Bird (iirc, Bird himself has recently said so too)
The Big "O"
Dr J
Jerry West
Karl Malone.

That would leave LeBron in the group of GOAT #s 5-8
LeBron
Kobe
Shaq
TD
That's where I have LeBron.

XpLiCiTT
07-03-2014, 01:23 AM
^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^

Do you only post novels?

Pablonovi
07-03-2014, 01:47 AM
^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^

Do you only post novels?

No

Jamiecballer
07-03-2014, 05:48 PM
Whenever I see people say ridiculous stuff like "he's already top 5....." or "will probably end up from 1-3"... I would love for them to put their age. I'm guessing from like 16-24.
35

Pablonovi
07-03-2014, 10:26 PM
LOL I've never seen someone admit their rankings of a player can free fall.

Thats so *** backwards, what is set in stone should never be taken away. If a player has done enough to be deemed superior, anything else he provides in his career is only EXTRA. You should never be able to drop by playing more, thanks bostonjorge, I now know to put you in that same class with moser and +1

Hey High Horse,
Yeah, I completely agree. Once you've achieved your highest ranking, nothing YOU can do can lower that. The only way you can be lowered is when newer guys come along and pass you.

Pablonovi
07-03-2014, 10:29 PM
Whenever I see people say ridiculous stuff like "he's already top 5....." or "will probably end up from 1-3"... I would love for them to put their age. I'm guessing from like 16-24.

Hey TS,
I've got LeBron in the GOAT 5-8 range (probably closer to 5 than 8).
I'm in my mid-60's (been watching the NBA for 55+ years).
I wouldn't mind being 40-50 years younger and being in that 16-24 age group - had a lot of fun (and watched a lot of 60's NBA Greats, back then).

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-03-2014, 11:55 PM
Whenever I see people say ridiculous stuff like "he's already top 5....." or "will probably end up from 1-3"... I would love for them to put their age. I'm guessing from like 16-24.

Hey TS,
I've got LeBron in the GOAT 5-8 range (probably closer to 5 than 8).
I'm in my mid-60's (been watching the NBA for 55+ years).
I wouldn't mind being 40-50 years younger and being in that 16-24 age group - had a lot of fun (and watched a lot of 60's NBA Greats, back then).

:laugh: Lebron top 5. Thanks for the good laugh

jp611
07-04-2014, 12:27 AM
Top 10 players don't chase rings.

Front runners aren't top 10 players.

Pablonovi
07-04-2014, 01:48 AM
:laugh: Lebron top 5. Thanks for the good laugh

Hey ILUSIONIST,
Lots of people have Bird around GOAT #5; imo, LeBron's better and has had a better career already.

Tony_Starks
07-04-2014, 02:14 AM
Hey TS,
I've got LeBron in the GOAT 5-8 range (probably closer to 5 than 8).
I'm in my mid-60's (been watching the NBA for 55+ years).
I wouldn't mind being 40-50 years younger and being in that 16-24 age group - had a lot of fun (and watched a lot of 60's NBA Greats, back then).

Hey I can't knock you sir. I saw your breakdown and agreed with the logic sans Lebron already passing Bird, Kobe, Timmy, Shaq. I believe in time he will pass them but I just can't put him there now.

As far as the older players I'll definitely defer to you and take your word for it. It's one thing to make comparisons off of stats and YouTube vids but its an entirely different story when you actually witnessed it.....

bucketss
07-04-2014, 02:24 AM
the king winning 82% of the votes, logic always wins.

jp611
07-04-2014, 02:28 AM
the king winning 82% of the votes, logic always wins.

You know where you're at, right?

cahawk
07-04-2014, 02:55 AM
Lebron top 10 easily & probably top 5.
I am 70.

jerellh528
07-04-2014, 03:08 AM
Lebron top 10 easily & probably top 5.
I am 70.

You must be senile already.

jp611
07-04-2014, 03:11 AM
You must be senile already.

:laugh2:

bucketss
07-04-2014, 04:05 AM
You know where you're at, right?

im not sure what this is suppose to mean.

Pablonovi
07-04-2014, 12:12 PM
Lebron top 10 easily & probably top 5.
I am 70.

LeBron James, Most COMPLETE PLayer Ever?

Hey cahawk,
I agree with you: Top 10 EASILY; probably Top 5 - when "forced to choose"; that's the exact spot I have him in.
(I've never been much of a HEAT fan; nor of DWade (I DO have him ranked about GOAT #5 SG; so I DO respect his game; or used to - seems to me, even with all the rest this past season, he just doesn't have "it" anymore.)

It was what LBJ did with the Cavs that definitely drew my attention - when has anybody "muscled" such a "D-League" squad to the Finals?

I ask myself, WHO else could have done as much with so little - I'm not sure anybody else at all could have - and that's saying a LOT. My GOAT Top 4: KAJ, Magic, MJ, Wilt - I doubt even any of them could have done it - it took a special player with a very specific set of skills (basically EVERY skill in Spades!; or enough of what each of those 4 All-Time Greats brought "to the table") to do be able to do that (bring the ball up and pass like Magic, score almost at will like MJ, play D like Wilt; be as reliable KAJ. *

Wow, somebody around here who's older than me. How cool.
If you don't mind me asking:
When did you first seriously start watching the NBA?
Who were your first favorite players and why?

* imo, LBJ is a MUCH better player since then than he was then. Much more COMPLETE. Who in history has ever been able to defend 4.5 positions, do so at a "shut-down" level when necessary, dominating great offensive players (and still having enough left on the offensive end)? He is #1 in the League NOW at going to the rim (though, in the Finals, Spur-fection did an excellent job of frustrating that, what DEFENSE!). He is approaching League-Best level from deep; his passing is Magic-like. His TEAM-work is impeccable (there are times I tend to wish he'd go "assassin" with the ball; but he insists on keeping his teammates involved - as he SHOULD!)

And his knowledge of the game (current and historical) seems near-encyclopedic. Talk about complete!

Mell413
07-04-2014, 12:17 PM
He already is.

Pablonovi
07-04-2014, 12:22 PM
He already is.

Hey Mell413,
Funny how the OP's seeming intent to denigrate LeBron's career (so far) has so thoroughly back-fired.

LOL - to you being a "rookie" with 20+ thousand posts!

Pablonovi
07-04-2014, 12:23 PM
duplicate post, sorry

Mell413
07-04-2014, 12:24 PM
He already is.

Hey Mell413,
Funny how the OP's seeming intent to denigrate LeBron's career (so far) has so thoroughly back-fired.

LOL - to you being a "rookie" with 20+ thousand posts!

Only reason it says that is because the default was something that would make me look self absorbed so I changed it. I'll change it once my computer is working.

ChiCubsFan
07-04-2014, 12:28 PM
Even as someone who doesn't like Lebron I don't even see this as a legit question. Of course he is top 10.

TheIlladelph16
07-04-2014, 01:30 PM
These threads are great for weeding out people to put on my ignore list. Welcome to it OP. He's already a Top 10 player ever.

Pablonovi
07-04-2014, 02:02 PM
These threads are great for weeding out people to put on my ignore list. Welcome to it OP. He's already a Top 10 player ever.

Heyk TI16,
I've never put anybody on my ignore list. Doesn't doing so make the threads a little confusing? (I suppose it might be worth it to avoid the "aggravation"?)

TheIlladelph16
07-04-2014, 02:53 PM
Heyk TI16,
I've never put anybody on my ignore list. Doesn't doing so make the threads a little confusing? (I suppose it might be worth it to avoid the "aggravation"?)

It can make it confusing at times, but it's typically better than having the majority of NBA threads filled with nonsense like this. People who dislike Lebron have been waiting years for him to hit FA so they can turn every thread into a circle jerk about how terrible he "really" is.

Kings Faithful
07-04-2014, 03:30 PM
One thing that really tarnishes lebrons legacy to me is his ties or lack there of to a franchise. All of the all time greats have a team that they are historically tied to...
Jordan/bulls, Bird/Celtics, Kobe/Lakers, Magic/Lakers, Stockton/Jazz, Malone/Jazz, Webber/Kings, Payton/Sonics. Durant will always be thought of as a Thunder even. Lebron, especially if he leaves, to me has no tie. If he did it would be the Cavs....whose fanbase despise him, unlike any of the players i previously mentioned.

Hawkamania
07-04-2014, 03:47 PM
I hate when people make polls and put the question in the title, but then ask the complete opposite in the poll question...

I feel your pain.

Pablonovi
07-04-2014, 03:52 PM
One thing that really tarnishes lebrons legacy to me is his ties or lack there of to a franchise. All of the all time greats have a team that they are historically tied to...
Jordan/bulls, Bird/Celtics, Kobe/Lakers, Magic/Lakers, Stockton/Jazz, Malone/Jazz, Webber/Kings, Payton/Sonics. Durant will always be thought of as a Thunder even. Lebron, especially if he leaves, to me has no tie. If he did it would be the Cavs....whose fanbase despise him, unlike any of the players i previously mentioned.

Hey Kings Faithful,
How would you respond to (my) claim that another list, equally impressive, could be made of NBA greats who played for more than one team (much less those who, in retrospect, wished they had)? What about the many who put great pressure on their own FO to improve the team with the implied threat that they'd walk otherwise?

How many "stay-at-home" great players would have stayed there IF their team had not challenged for Chips? I bet MJ would have bolted; same for Bird.

Payton played for more than one team. Durant's still early in his career. If he were to change teams in the future, I, personally, would have ZERO problem with that.

Do none of these players qualify for YOU as "All of the all-time greats"? Wilt, Barry, Dr. J., KAJ, Moses, Shaq

jerellh528
07-04-2014, 04:07 PM
Hey Kings Faithful,
How would you respond to (my) claim that another list, equally impressive, could be made of NBA greats who played for more than one team (much less those who, in retrospect, wished they had)? What about the many who put great pressure on their own FO to improve the team with the implied threat that they'd walk otherwise?

How many "stay-at-home" great players would have stayed there IF their team had not challenged for Chips? I bet MJ would have bolted; same for Bird.

Payton played for more than one team. Durant's still early in his career. If he were to change teams in the future, I, personally, would have ZERO problem with that.

Do none of these players qualify for YOU as "All of the all-time greats"? Wilt, Barry, Dr. J., KAJ, Moses, Shaq

I don't think it's so much that he left his team in his prime, as that he left to go join 2 other all stars for an easy path to rings therefore an easy path to a greater legacy. And all this talk of him wanting bosh and wade to take a 10 million pay cut each so he can resign for the max on a 1 or two year contract doesn't help. Let's just hope he stays in Miami or goes back to Cleveland, for the sake of his reputation.

bucketss
07-04-2014, 04:12 PM
anymore 70 yr olds on this forum? just curious.

BcEuAbRsS
07-04-2014, 04:33 PM
If I was to build two teams to play each other I would be shocked if LeBron wasn't picked.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-04-2014, 04:50 PM
anymore 70 yr olds on this forum? just curious.nope just one 20 year old named buckets.

bucketss
07-04-2014, 04:53 PM
nope just one 20 year old named buckets.

theres only one 20 year old on this forum, hilarious.

amos1er
07-05-2014, 08:50 PM
Ok man. Listen to me, I'm not gonna argue with you about the way I feel about the game of basketball. You made valid points, but that's your opinion and your opinion isn't strong enough to steer mine. Your obviously a big LeBron fan and nothing I say can make you feel otherwise. It seems like you want to find excuses for him. The greatest player of this generation shouldn't need that many excuses for losing or taking the easy route to try and win. Good talking to you though

Probly the best post in this thread. Props.

amos1er
07-05-2014, 08:52 PM
I just can't imagine ranking a player top ten with that good of a team who has failed as the clear vegas odds favorite time and time again. Having a losing record in the finals doesn't help his case much either.

XpLiCiTT
07-05-2014, 08:56 PM
I just can't imagine ranking a player top ten with that good of a team who has failed as the clear vegas odds favorite time and time again. Having a losing record in the finals doesn't help his case much either.

LeBron and the Cavs were not vegas odds favorites. Nor were the Heat this past season...

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-05-2014, 09:17 PM
I just can't imagine ranking a player top ten with that good of a team who has failed as the clear vegas odds favorite time and time again. Having a losing record in the finals doesn't help his case much either.

LeBron and the Cavs were not vegas odds favorites. Nor were the Heat this past season...

Lmao, fail!!! The Cavs were favorites back to back years when Kobe and co took 2 in a row. And the heat have been favorites for the majority of them being together. Do some research.

XpLiCiTT
07-05-2014, 09:21 PM
Lmao, fail!!! The Cavs were favorites back to back years when Kobe and co took 2 in a row. And the heat have been favorites for the majority of them being together. Do some research.

Cavs were not favored against the Spurs in the 2007 finals, and the Heat were not favored in the 2014 finals, so…you're wrong. But it's okay, that seems to be a tendency of yours.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-05-2014, 09:27 PM
(null)

Nice way to nitpick. Why don't you talk about the Cavs being favorites in 08-10? The heat have being vegas favorites before the season starts four straight years. And we're basically even for the finals this year. Get off lebrons dick already, he got exposed so just except it already.

XpLiCiTT
07-05-2014, 09:30 PM
Nice way to nitpick. Why don't you talk about the Cavs being favorites in 08-10? The heat have being vegas favorites before the season starts four straight years. And we're basically even for the finals this year. Get off lebrons dick already, he got exposed so just except it already.

Nitpick? You called me out for saying LeBrons finals teams were not vegas favorites to win. And you were wrong, so I was just letting you know. Wasn't nitpicking.

You are in every thread looking for ways to irrationally bash LeBron. Do you ever get tired of it? Give it a rest.

Chronz
07-05-2014, 09:30 PM
I just can't imagine ranking a player top ten with that good of a team who has failed as the clear vegas odds favorite time and time again. Having a losing record in the finals doesn't help his case much either.

Thats because you fail to see what Legends like Larry Bird have seen. Making the Finals is still an accomplishment, its not as if his legacy would be any better if he had never made it to the Finals with Cleveland, even though 2-2 is technically better than 2-3.

Just think of how asinine your argument is, had Cleveland simply lost in the ECF instead of overachieving beyond a superior team, Bron would have a better argument... some how... lmfao


You dont even know how Vegas odds are calculated nor what they suggest, its hilarious watching you 2 prop up Vegas odds as if it somehow detracts from a player.

FlashBolt
07-05-2014, 09:32 PM
Nice way to nitpick. Why don't you talk about the Cavs being favorites in 08-10? The heat have being vegas favorites before the season starts four straight years. And we're basically even for the finals this year. Get off lebrons dick already, he got exposed so just except it already.

And being the favorites means they are going to win? If by your logic, we might as well not watch the NBA, correct? He got exposed by what? 2-5, he's only 29 and has good years ahead of him still. He is in reach of 4 rings and will still be in his prime. Don't see what's wrong when you lose to a great team like the Spurs. And how's Kobe doing without Shaq and Gasol in their prime? Not doing too well, is he?

When people say 2-2 vs 2-3, what does that really mean? % wise, 2-2 is better but is it really? Reaching the Finals is much better than losing in the first round. Reaching the Finals is an accomplishment - not a failure. Of course, winning the ring is the end all - be all, but I'm more impressed with 2-10 than 2-2. It shows that a player and his team were able to reach the Finals 8x more.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-05-2014, 09:32 PM
Nice way to nitpick. Why don't you talk about the Cavs being favorites in 08-10? The heat have being vegas favorites before the season starts four straight years. And we're basically even for the finals this year. Get off lebrons dick already, he got exposed so just except it already.

Nitpick? You called me out for saying LeBrons finals teams were not vegas favorites to win. And you were wrong, so I was just letting you know. Wasn't nitpicking.

You are in every thread looking for ways to irrationally bash LeBron. Do you ever get tired of it? Give it a rest.

How was I wrong when I just destroyed your post?

FlashBolt
07-05-2014, 09:34 PM
How was I wrong when I just destroyed your post?

You never destroyed anyone's post. It's usually the other way around.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-05-2014, 09:34 PM
Nice way to nitpick. Why don't you talk about the Cavs being favorites in 08-10? The heat have being vegas favorites before the season starts four straight years. And we're basically even for the finals this year. Get off lebrons dick already, he got exposed so just except it already.

And being the favorites means they are going to win? If by your logic, we might as well not watch the NBA, correct? He got exposed by what? 2-5, he's only 29 and has good years ahead of him still. He is in reach of 4 rings and will still be in his prime. Don't see what's wrong when you lose to a great team like the Spurs. And how's Kobe doing without Shaq and Gasol in their prime? Not doing too well, is he?

Lebron has more loses as the favorite than anyone I can think of. Kobe's an old guy now on one of the worst teams in the league, what do you want him to do? Lol. Kobe 5-2 in the finals and Lebron is 2-3. Go cry about it to someone else

XpLiCiTT
07-05-2014, 09:41 PM
How was I wrong when I just destroyed your post?

You were wrong, I corrected you, but you "destroyed my post". That's logical.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-05-2014, 09:43 PM
How was I wrong when I just destroyed your post?

You were wrong, I corrected you, but you "destroyed my post". That's logical.

You pointed out 1 year he wasn't the favorite and I pointed out 6 that he was. Nice try

BALLER R
07-05-2014, 09:45 PM
Honestly y'all need to STFU with this Lebron threads. The hate is just stupid now. I use to hate it when Y'all got at Kobe but then I use to get at Lebron. Dude won whether you like it or not he's a beast. It's hypocritical of me to bash Lebron. Coming on this site is just getting annoying now. Y'all too disrespectful to great players.

FlashBolt
07-05-2014, 09:46 PM
Lebron has more loses as the favorite than anyone I can think of. Kobe's an old guy now on one of the worst teams in the league, what do you want him to do? Lol. Kobe 5-2 in the finals and Lebron is 2-3. Go cry about it to someone else

Kobe wasn't even the best player for three of those finals.. Take Shaq out and he doesn't make the Finals nor does he even win one of them. Funny how you speak about the worst teams in the league but when James was stuck at Cleveland, you said they had a very good roster, really? Has more losses? Buddy, Magic is 5-9 and lost 4 finals. How is 3 losses more than 4 losses? I question your intelligence.

FlashBolt
07-05-2014, 09:49 PM
Honestly y'all need to STFU with this Lebron threads. The hate is just stupid now. I use to hate it when Y'all got at Kobe but then I use to get at Lebron. Dude won whether you like it or not he's a beast. It's hypocritical of me to bash Lebron. Coming on this site is just getting annoying now. Y'all too disrespectful to great players.

Exactly. It's as if they need to create lies to stir up some mess that doesn't even make sense. At the end of the day, they are great basketball players rings or no rings. Not everyone wins a ring - does that mean you wouldn't take them in a pickup game? Barkley would be a top 10 player on my team, Malone is a great player along with Stockton. Rings defines their legacy as a team achievement but in no way does it define them as a player. But you know what, this forum is honestly a joke. I am thankful you said that because ISH was never this bad. You had the occasional fan who would hate on a player but at least they weren't trolling thread after thread. I really hope Mod's do some cleaning up and create a separate forum for people who have no infractions.

XpLiCiTT
07-05-2014, 09:50 PM
You pointed out 1 year he wasn't the favorite and I pointed out 6 that he was. Nice try

It's becoming more and more apparent that you can't read or comprehend anything in your delusional head. I pointed out 2 finals appearances in which he was NOT favored. He's been in 5 finals, favored in 3, won 2 of those. What do you not understand?

amos1er
07-05-2014, 09:51 PM
Cavs were not favored against the Spurs in the 2007 finals, and the Heat were not favored in the 2014 finals, so…you're wrong. But it's okay, that seems to be a tendency of yours.

Heat are always favored at the beginning of every season. They are even the odds on favorites this next season if they should decide to stay together.

amos1er
07-05-2014, 09:54 PM
LeBron and the Cavs were not vegas odds favorites. Nor were the Heat this past season...

Wrong buddy...

http://www.oddsshark.com/nba/nba-futures

FlashBolt
07-05-2014, 09:55 PM
It's funny because if you check through Illusionist's other threads not relating to LeBron, he uses valid arguments and doesn't seem biased. Seems like an honest poster who just wants to talk about basketball and not shrewd nonsense all over the thread. In one thread, he said "keep the thread clean." Yet, on LeBron threads, he does the exact opposite. Illusionist, who is paying you to hate on LeBron?

XpLiCiTT
07-05-2014, 09:57 PM
Heat are always favored at the beginning of every season. They are even the odds on favorites this next season if they should decide to stay together.

That's irrelevant. When it comes time to plays the actual games is what is relevant. But if thats what you were going by then never mind, I just figured you would be going by the vegas odds of the actual finals series.

FlashBolt
07-05-2014, 09:58 PM
Wrong buddy...

http://www.oddsshark.com/nba/nba-futures

So odds dictate who actually wins? You do realize these people vote on popularity most of the time, right?

amos1er
07-05-2014, 09:59 PM
Honestly y'all need to STFU with this Lebron threads. The hate is just stupid now. I use to hate it when Y'all got at Kobe but then I use to get at Lebron. Dude won whether you like it or not he's a beast. It's hypocritical of me to bash Lebron. Coming on this site is just getting annoying now. Y'all too disrespectful to great players.

How do you think we all fell when you guys are constantly overhyping the guy and singing his undeserved praises. If I had to imagine how he looked based on the overall description given by Lebron homers and never got to see him actually play, I would think he was 8 feet tall and could shoot laser beams out of his eyes. Yes, it is that disgusting. Lebron fans are by far the most obnoxious fans in any sport in all the world. So when you think you hear people constantly ripping on him, just know that it's just a defense mechanism put in place to cope with all the annoying crap his fans are constantly propagating around the web.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-05-2014, 10:00 PM
Lebron has more loses as the favorite than anyone I can think of. Kobe's an old guy now on one of the worst teams in the league, what do you want him to do? Lol. Kobe 5-2 in the finals and Lebron is 2-3. Go cry about it to someone else

Kobe wasn't even the best player for three of those finals.. Take Shaq out and he doesn't make the Finals nor does he even win one of them. Funny how you speak about the worst teams in the league but when James was stuck at Cleveland, you said they had a very good roster, really? Has more losses? Buddy, Magic is 5-9 and lost 4 finals. How is 3 losses more than 4 losses? I question your intelligence.

Go look at Kobe's stats in the playoffs those years. Keep acting like he didn't do anything. The Cavs were pretty good, and being the Vegas favorites confirms that. Magic lost 4 and wasn't the favorites in some of those. He also has 5 wins in the finals, 3 more than Lebron.

XpLiCiTT
07-05-2014, 10:00 PM
Wrong buddy...

http://www.oddsshark.com/nba/nba-futures

You sent me a link to the 2015 (next years) championship odds. I said the Heat were not favored against the Spurs in the 2014 finals, nor were the Cavs favored in the 2007 nba finals. How am i wrong, buddy?

amos1er
07-05-2014, 10:01 PM
So odds dictate who actually wins? You do realize these people vote on popularity most of the time, right?

Huh...

Ya, thats exactly why the house always wins. :rolleyes:

When they say that someone is a 3/1 favorite, they are just making that crap up and pulling numbers from their arse.

amos1er
07-05-2014, 10:02 PM
You sent me a link to the 2015 (next years) championship odds. I said the Heat were not favored against the Spurs in the 2014 finals, nor were the Cavs favored in the 2007 nba finals. How am i wrong, buddy?

Scroll down genius.

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-05-2014, 10:03 PM
You sent me a link to the 2015 (next years) championship odds. I said the Heat were not favored against the Spurs in the 2014 finals, nor were the Cavs favored in the 2007 nba finals. How am i wrong, buddy?

Scroll down genius.

Lol zinggggg

XpLiCiTT
07-05-2014, 10:03 PM
Scroll down genius.

Read, genius.

http://www.si.com/nba/point-forward/2014/06/02/nba-finals-odds-spurs-heat-favorite-2014

ILLUSIONIST^248
07-05-2014, 10:05 PM
It's funny because if you check through Illusionist's other threads not relating to LeBron, he uses valid arguments and doesn't seem biased. Seems like an honest poster who just wants to talk about basketball and not shrewd nonsense all over the thread. In one thread, he said "keep the thread clean." Yet, on LeBron threads, he does the exact opposite. Illusionist, who is paying you to hate on LeBron?

I honesty never hated Lebron before this site. I just can't stand Lebron fans and how they put him on a level he hasn't reached.

bucketss
07-05-2014, 10:07 PM
heat are usually favs(beginning of the season) because they're the only ones expected to make the finals, while out west theres a bunch of teams that can make a run. but once the finals rolls around people know what to expect.

bucketss
07-05-2014, 10:08 PM
I honesty never hated Lebron before this site. I just can't stand Lebron fans and how they put him on a level he hasn't reached.

are you sure, kb-pau liked lebron just check by profile.

XpLiCiTT
07-05-2014, 10:08 PM
heat are usually favs(beginning of the season) because they're the only ones expected to make the finals, while out west theres a bunch of teams that can make a run. but once the finals rolls around people know what to expect.

Thank you, some people struggle to grasp this simple concept.

amos1er
07-05-2014, 10:09 PM
Read, genius.

http://www.si.com/nba/point-forward/2014/06/02/nba-finals-odds-spurs-heat-favorite-2014


Oddsmaking service Bovada.LV lists the Spurs as a slight favorite in the 2014 Finals, which begin Thursday night at San Antonio's AT&T Center. San Antonio is given 4/5 odds while Miami is set at 21/20.

Weren't we talking about Vegas odds. :laugh: What an epic failure. Oh my.

amos1er
07-05-2014, 10:12 PM
heat are usually favs(beginning of the season) because they're the only ones expected to make the finals, while out west theres a bunch of teams that can make a run. but once the finals rolls around people know what to expect.

Heat are always the favorites. Vegas and the majority of media analysts always pick them to win it all.

RazzleDazzle
07-05-2014, 10:12 PM
How do you think we all fell when you guys are constantly overhyping the guy and singing his undeserved praises. If I had to imagine how he looked based on the overall description given by Lebron homers and never got to see him actually play, I would think he was 8 feet tall and could shoot laser beams out of his eyes. Yes, it is that disgusting. Lebron fans are by far the most obnoxious fans in any sport in all the world. So when you think you hear people constantly ripping on him, just know that it's just a defense mechanism put in place to cope with all the annoying crap his fans are constantly propagating around the web.

lol its as if he doesn't deserve the propoganda in your mind

its well warranted as he is a special player, due to his size and extreme athleticism, and has all the skills in the world, can do all basketball related, a player the NBA has never seen before - so yes - its kinda expected to receive backlash from someone like you, fan of another player that is also polarizing in love and hate discussions.

But to say he is 8 feet tall and could shoot lazer beams out of his eye - i don't think anyone has said that - you are definitely reading between the lines and letting your emotions get the better of you.

Amos1er, you come off as irrational because of your views stated in your post, lol. Not saying your arguments are right or wrong, but with your overzealous statements, I don't think its the right way to attack the topic when it comes to Lebron lol. You seem pretty normal when it comes to other posts, just like Illusionist, but when it comes to Lebron, you totally change.