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ManRam
06-29-2014, 10:26 AM
Voting for the #3 player of all time has concluded. The winner is...

Wilt Chamberlain

30.1 PPG | 22.9 RPG | 4.4 AST | .540% FG | 26.1 PER | 247.3 WS

Achievements:

4 Time MVP
13 Time All-Star
1 Time Finals MVP
'60 Rookie Of The Year
'60 All Star Game MVP
8 time All-NBA First Teamer
2 time All-NBA Second Teamer
2 time All-Devensive First Teamer
Led the league in scoring 7 times
Led the league in rebounding 11 times
All Time rebound leader
Led the league in assists once
Led the league in PER 8 times

Voting:

Wilt Chamberlain = 36 votes
Magic Johnson = 24 votes
Bill Russell = 7 votes
LeBron James = 3 votes
Hakeem Olajuwon = 3 votes
Larry Bird = 3 votes
Shaquille O'Neal = 2 votes
Kobe Bryant = 2 votes
Tim Duncan = 2 votes
Moses Malone = 0 vote
Oscar Robertson = 0 votes
Julius Erving = 0 votes
Jerry West = 0 votes
David Robinson = 0 votes


The List:

1. Michael Jordan (http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?868731-PSD-s-Official-1-Player-of-All-Time)
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?868922-PSD-s-Official-2-NBA-Player-of-All-Time)
3. Wilt Chamberlain (http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?869144-PSD-s-Official-3-Player-of-All-Time)

----------------------------------------

Please vote, explain AND nominate someone else to add to the future polling choices.

ManningToTyree
06-29-2014, 10:28 AM
Magic

Chronz
06-29-2014, 10:44 AM
Going Shaq here. Next best bigman, utterly DESTROYED teams on BOTH ends, took numerous teams to the Finals and was a constant double team threat. Will understand if popularity wins out here tho.

Crackadalic
06-29-2014, 11:47 AM
Going Shaq here. Next best bigman, utterly DESTROYED teams on BOTH ends, took numerous teams to the Finals and was a constant double team threat. Will understand if popularity wins out here tho.

Agree with this as well. He is only one ring less then Magic but the way he dominated teams from 92 till early 2000's was awesome to watch

akia83
06-29-2014, 12:22 PM
I have like 6 guys more or less at the same level.
It's between Bird, Lebron, O'neal, Magic and Duncan, depending on the day :)

I'm gonna go with Earvin "Magic" Johnson, and if I can nominate someone, it would be Elgin Baylor.

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 12:55 PM
Going Shaq here. Next best bigman, utterly DESTROYED teams on BOTH ends, took numerous teams to the Finals and was a constant double team threat. Will understand if popularity wins out here tho.

If Shaq didn't annoy me so much on TV with his all about me attitude, I'd be joining you with that vote but I'll wait. When ever I stop and think about it..who would I rather have? Magic or Bird or Shaq..it seems pretty easy Shaq. You can make any team great adding Mag or Bird but you make any team a champion with Shaq you couldn't stop him.

In offseasons teams in his conference thought about 'do we have someone to try and slow down Shaq?'
Teams would be tossing out all their bigs to TRY and stop him.

Bruno
06-29-2014, 12:58 PM
I went with Duncan.

Magics gona win this one.

RocketLoc80
06-29-2014, 01:05 PM
Magic shouldve won the last poll but I am gonna hedge my bets and predict the rest of the list

4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Shaq O` Neal
7. Duncan
8. Lebron
9. Hakeem
10. Kobe or Oscar

that how the list should look at the end.

FlashBolt
06-29-2014, 01:28 PM
Going with Kobe here. That longevity overshadows anyone.

Minimal
06-29-2014, 01:41 PM
going with Lebron here. simply a better player than others. shaq next.

FlashBolt
06-29-2014, 01:49 PM
going with Lebron here. simply a better player than others. shaq next.

LeBron hasn't done more than Kobe, though. I don't see how you can give LeBron over Kobe, Tim, Shaq, Hakeem, and Magic just yet. I get that you're a Heat/LeBron fan but there is really no argument in regards to James needing more time to bump those guys out. I have James at the 9 just behind:

Jordan
KAJ
Hakeem
Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Magic
Wilt
LeBron
Bird

I know it will draw some hecklers because I rank Hakeem/Kobe so high but Hakeem is the most skilled center defensively and offensively. He makes his teammates better and dominates the opposing centers like no other besides maybe Shaq and Wilt in their primes (Hakeem was more skilled overall, though). Kobe's longevity really brings him up over here. 13 years of dominance is just hard to ignore along with his achievements throughout his career. Duncan/Shaq/Magic all a tossup, could really go either way between those players. Wilt I haven't seen and probably won't care enough to see because it's a clear fact he wasn't playing against the best players. Giving him a spot though just because I think he will be dominant in any era, just not as dominant as he was in his. LeBron over Bird, pretty much since Bird's career was rather short and LeBron's 10 years are by far better than Bird's 10 years.

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 01:57 PM
going with Lebron here. simply a better player than others. shaq next.

Lololol. *looks at SIG*

Oh makes sense now

Minimal
06-29-2014, 02:09 PM
LeBron hasn't done more than Kobe, though. I don't see how you can give LeBron over Kobe, Tim, Shaq, Hakeem, and Magic just yet. I get that you're a Heat/LeBron fan but there is really no argument in regards to James needing more time to bump those guys out. I have James at the 9 just behind:

Jordan
KAJ
Hakeem
Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Magic
Wilt
LeBron
Bird

I know it will draw some hecklers because I rank Hakeem/Kobe so high but Hakeem is the most skilled center defensively and offensively. He makes his teammates better and dominates the opposing centers like no other besides maybe Shaq and Wilt in their primes (Hakeem was more skilled overall, though). Kobe's longevity really brings him up over here. 13 years of dominance is just hard to ignore along with his achievements throughout his career. Duncan/Shaq/Magic all a tossup, could really go either way between those players. Wilt I haven't seen and probably won't care enough to see because it's a clear fact he wasn't playing against the best players. Giving him a spot though just because I think he will be dominant in any era, just not as dominant as he was in his. LeBron over Bird, pretty much since Bird's career was rather short and LeBron's 10 years are by far better than Bird's 10 years.
i know lebron won't win in next couple of votes, but i'm still gonna vote for him. he belongs next to wilt/kaj/mj as the best player to lace them up. key word is best, not the greatest. kobe was never on the level of lebron, nor were the others listed, maybe with the exception of shaq.

Bruno
06-29-2014, 02:10 PM
how high will heat and laker homerism propel James and Kobe/Magic in these threads?

not a popularity contest.

todu82
06-29-2014, 02:25 PM
Magic Johnson

Ebbs
06-29-2014, 02:27 PM
how high will heat and laker homerism propel James and Kobe/Magic in these threads?

not a popularity contest.

Good luck with that. Unfortunately life is a popularity contest

SLY WILLIAMS
06-29-2014, 02:35 PM
Bird aka Larry Legend.

Often the most under rated guy on PSD.

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 02:43 PM
how high will heat and laker homerism propel James and Kobe/Magic in these threads?

not a popularity contest.

That's what worries me. If people could just for once ignore their biases we could actually make a great list better than those you find on ESPN blogs or wherever.

Unfortunately all Heat/Lebron fans and all Kobe fans will find a way to squeeze them in 3-5 spots higher than they should be...

Magic is running away with this one, not too happy about that but better than some of the other votes in here.




When does voting close ManRammer?

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 02:43 PM
Bird aka Larry Legend.

Often the most under rated guy on PSD.

Easily!

RocketLoc80
06-29-2014, 03:23 PM
LeBron hasn't done more than Kobe, though. I don't see how you can give LeBron over Kobe, Tim, Shaq, Hakeem, and Magic just yet. I get that you're a Heat/LeBron fan but there is really no argument in regards to James needing more time to bump those guys out. I have James at the 9 just behind:

Jordan
KAJ
Hakeem
Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Magic
Wilt
LeBron
Bird

I know it will draw some hecklers because I rank Hakeem/Kobe so high but Hakeem is the most skilled center defensively and offensively. He makes his teammates better and dominates the opposing centers like no other besides maybe Shaq and Wilt in their primes (Hakeem was more skilled overall, though). Kobe's longevity really brings him up over here. 13 years of dominance is just hard to ignore along with his achievements throughout his career. Duncan/Shaq/Magic all a tossup, could really go either way between those players. Wilt I haven't seen and probably won't care enough to see because it's a clear fact he wasn't playing against the best players. Giving him a spot though just because I think he will be dominant in any era, just not as dominant as he was in his. LeBron over Bird, pretty much since Bird's career was rather short and LeBron's 10 years are by far better than Bird's 10 years.


Sorry but Kobe is just way too high so is Hakeem as much as a love his game and think he was the best center of his generation by far. But Kobe over Shaq,Duncan,Lebron .Magic,Wilt and Bird don`t fly in my book just no man.

JasonJohnHorn
06-29-2014, 04:18 PM
I went with Hakeem because of his skill and impact on both ends (I don't think Bird of Magic impacted defense like Hakeem, and though Shaq was good, he wasn't as skilled). Though I'm VERY tempted to go with either Russell (11 rings) or Robertson (3D King). And of course, I got a monster hard on for Tim Duncan....

Really, though, there is no wrong answer here. All these guys have a legit case for a spot at number one let alone a spot at number four.

D-Leethal
06-29-2014, 04:29 PM
Madge, than Larry. Then things get interesting especially after Duncan added another title to his resume.

Ebbs
06-29-2014, 04:37 PM
Bird aka Larry Legend.

Often the most under rated guy on PSD.

I agree actually.

For me:

MJ
Kareem
Wilt
Bird
Magic
Shaq
LeBron
Duncan
Hakeem
Kobe
Russell

Ebbs
06-29-2014, 04:38 PM
Nominate Dirk Nowitzki

jerellh528
06-29-2014, 04:54 PM
The more I think of it, the more I drop magic further down my list. People wanna dock larry for having a short career, but I actually think larry was the better player. And he also played more minutes than magic ever did if I'm not mistaken.

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 04:55 PM
When does voting close

Raidaz4Life
06-29-2014, 06:09 PM
Gotta go Bird here

Raps18-19 Champ
06-29-2014, 07:44 PM
Kobe because I'm a Lakers fan.

tredigs
06-29-2014, 08:09 PM
I think it's close - but clear - that Larry was always better than Magic until he hurt his back around 88.

In his ~8 year peak he was putting up 26/10/7 +2stls & 1blk on 51/38/89. All NBA 1st Team 9 straight years (in a league where guys like Dr. J, Barkley, Wilkins, Drexler, Magic, Kareem, Olajuwon, Malone, etc were taking turns on 2nd team), top 3 in MVP voting 7 straight years (including 3 in a row where he was also Finals MVP two of those years). Also top 3 in PER and WinShares for 6 straight years (multiple #1's on both) against that deadly crop of players, and that included a few Defensive Team nods.

Magic himself readily admits that he always considered Bird the better player, and that seems to be the sentiment from most people who watched both play; he was the better shooter/scorer, rebounder and defender along with being arguably the GOAT passer at forward. Magic was the better passer and ball handler.

Career wise, it's tough because Magic had more success from 88 on after Bird was hurt, but I prefer to lean on peak play when two players are so close, and that's Bird for me between the two.

kdspurman
06-29-2014, 08:10 PM
how high will heat and laker homerism propel James and Kobe/Magic in these threads?

not a popularity contest.

That's exactly what it will come down to unfortunately. Seeing Lebron/Kobe get votes at 1/2 spot is enough to tell you how some people think lol. Hopefully more logical people vote than homers.

I think I'll go with Magic here and Larry next .

amos1er
06-29-2014, 08:48 PM
how high will heat and laker homerism propel James and Kobe/Magic in these threads?

not a popularity contest.

So your saying that Wilt has a more accomplished resume than Magic.

HandsOnTheWheel
06-29-2014, 08:49 PM
how high will heat and laker homerism propel James and Kobe/Magic in these threads?

not a popularity contest.
This lol.

I'm going bird

amos1er
06-29-2014, 09:08 PM
Going Shaq here. Next best bigman, utterly DESTROYED teams on BOTH ends, took numerous teams to the Finals and was a constant double team threat. Will understand if popularity wins out here tho.

IMO it won out last round when Wilt won it over Magic. Magic clearly achieved a greater level of greatness in his career than both Wilt and Shaq. Guess your definition of greatness and criteria used to judge it is different than most eh.

amos1er
06-29-2014, 09:15 PM
I think it's close - but clear - that Larry was always better than Magic until he hurt his back around 88.

In his ~8 year peak he was putting up 26/10/7 +2stls & 1blk on 51/38/89. All NBA 1st Team 9 straight years (in a league where guys like Dr. J, Barkley, Wilkins, Drexler, Magic, Kareem, Olajuwon, Malone, etc were taking turns on 2nd team), top 3 in MVP voting 7 straight years (including 3 in a row where he was also Finals MVP two of those years). Also top 3 in PER and WinShares for 6 straight years (multiple #1's on both) against that deadly crop of players, and that included a few Defensive Team nods.

Magic himself readily admits that he always considered Bird the better player, and that seems to be the sentiment from most people who watched both play; he was the better shooter/scorer, rebounder and defender along with being arguably the GOAT passer at forward. Magic was the better passer and ball handler.

Career wise, it's tough because Magic had more success from 88 on after Bird was hurt, but I prefer to lean on peak play when two players are so close, and that's Bird for me between the two.

Why does everybody always want to play the "what if" game...

What if Birds career was longer... So what... I can always counter with what if Magic didn't retire early. Thats the problem with the "what if" game... For every one "what if" you can think of, I can always think of another to counter yours... Both impossible to prove. Hence the problem with using hypothetical arguments to determine actual greatness.

JordansBulls
06-29-2014, 09:42 PM
Took Magic here.

hidalgo
06-29-2014, 10:12 PM
Magic Johnson (#2 imo)

tredigs
06-29-2014, 10:24 PM
Why does everybody always want to play the "what if" game...

What if Birds career was longer... So what... I can always counter with what if Magic didn't retire early. Thats the problem with the "what if" game... For every one "what if" you can think of, I can always think of another to counter yours... Both impossible to prove. Hence the problem with using hypothetical arguments to determine actual greatness.

You're acting as if I'm talking about Brandon Roy here. I laid out reasons why I believe Bird > Magic, regardless of the fact that his career did not end in the way he hoped.

Chronz
06-29-2014, 10:45 PM
IMO it won out last round when Wilt won it over Magic. Magic clearly achieved a greater level of greatness in his career than both Wilt and Shaq. Guess your definition of greatness and criteria used to judge it is different than most eh.
Yeah, I rely on facts, I laid waste to ur argument why in the prior thread.

Lol selfless

FlashBolt
06-30-2014, 01:31 AM
Sorry but Kobe is just way too high so is Hakeem as much as a love his game and think he was the best center of his generation by far. But Kobe over Shaq,Duncan,Lebron .Magic,Wilt and Bird don`t fly in my book just no man.

1) Hakeem is the most skilled center defensively and offensively. I might give you Kareem over Hakeem offensively just because of the skyhook but Hakeem was the complete offensive player and he's arguably the best defensive center as well. Best offensive/best defensive center is hard to ignore when you account for the fact that the Center position is probably the most stacked in terms of GOAT's with Shaq, Robinson, Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, and Moses.

2) I have Kobe up so high because he has been so good for so long. He has amassed so many achievements over a career that only maybe Duncan, Shaq, KAJ, and Jordan has surpassed in the list of top 10. Magic never achieved more than Kobe because of his health catastrophe. Bird's career was clearly cut short so I don't really see an argument for him. Longevity is the only reason KAJ is undeniably up there so high. Shaq was practically a shell of himself since being traded to Miami. Can't really give him any points for those pointless seasons. Tim Duncan has had his career preserved by amazing surrounding players. LeBron clearly not even close to Kobe, yet. I do see LeBron getting into the 3rd spot by career's end.

ThuglifeJ
06-30-2014, 02:13 AM
I think it's close - but clear - that Larry was always better than Magic until he hurt his back around 88.

In his ~8 year peak he was putting up 26/10/7 +2stls & 1blk on 51/38/89. All NBA 1st Team 9 straight years (in a league where guys like Dr. J, Barkley, Wilkins, Drexler, Magic, Kareem, Olajuwon, Malone, etc were taking turns on 2nd team), top 3 in MVP voting 7 straight years (including 3 in a row where he was also Finals MVP two of those years). Also top 3 in PER and WinShares for 6 straight years (multiple #1's on both) against that deadly crop of players, and that included a few Defensive Team nods.

Magic himself readily admits that he always considered Bird the better player, and that seems to be the sentiment from most people who watched both play; he was the better shooter/scorer, rebounder and defender along with being arguably the GOAT passer at forward. Magic was the better passer and ball handler.

Career wise, it's tough because Magic had more success from 88 on after Bird was hurt, but I prefer to lean on peak play when two players are so close, and that's Bird for me between the two.

Why does everybody always want to play the "what if" game...

What if Birds career was longer... So what... I can always counter with what if Magic didn't retire early. Thats the problem with the "what if" game... For every one "what if" you can think of, I can always think of another to counter yours... Both impossible to prove. Hence the problem with using hypothetical arguments to determine actual greatness.

What if you stopped ignoring that bird was better than magic in their primes? Magic wanted to have fun and bird wanted to beat everybody and did you couldn't stop a guy 10 steps ahead of everyone. Obviously magics arguable for this 4 spot, but bird is getting robbed if he falls anywhere past 5. I had Bird 3 because I truly think he could lead a team in his prime, before back probs, to beat Jordan's bulls or just about anyone. Dude was who you wanted in charge his IQ was insane the passes he could make

Chronz
06-30-2014, 02:16 AM
1) Hakeem is the most skilled center defensively and offensively. I might give you Kareem over Hakeem offensively just because of the skyhook but Hakeem was the complete offensive player and he's arguably the best defensive center as well. Best offensive/best defensive center is hard to ignore when you account for the fact that the Center position is probably the most stacked in terms of GOAT's with Shaq, Robinson, Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, and Moses.
It gets easier to ignore when you realize his defensive prime and offensive prime only intertwined for a short portion of his career. Took him years to master the art of passing.


2) I have Kobe up so high because he has been so good for so long. He has amassed so many achievements over a career that only maybe Duncan, Shaq, KAJ, and Jordan has surpassed in the list of top 10. Magic never achieved more than Kobe because of his health catastrophe. Bird's career was clearly cut short so I don't really see an argument for him. Longevity is the only reason KAJ is undeniably up there so high. Shaq was practically a shell of himself since being traded to Miami. Can't really give him any points for those pointless seasons. Tim Duncan has had his career preserved by amazing surrounding players. LeBron clearly not even close to Kobe, yet. I do see LeBron getting into the 3rd spot by career's end.
Shaq was an All-NBA/All-Star performer after Miami and had started dominating at a younger age. His longevity is underrated.

naps
06-30-2014, 03:08 AM
Took Magic here.

So you are off the Bill Russell bandwagon finally? You always had Russell in your top 3, how come you are taking Magic here over Russell then?

Pablonovi
06-30-2014, 09:27 AM
Magic Johnson (#2 imo)

Hey hidalgo,
Me too (in both regards).
Why do I get so thrilled when we agree about something?
Could it be because it hardly ever happens?

Pablonovi
06-30-2014, 09:40 AM
Is it possible to agree with almost all of the previous posts?
I mean, it seems to me that very legitimate arguments can be made for everyone of the guys who are getting serious votage here in this poll. So, I guess that means that the gaps between players has already, after only just the Top 3, gotten quite small.

I can more than live with that.

btw, Hey ManRam, do you still go back to the earlier threads and read the recent posts?
I ask because I'm pissed (NOT!) that somebody here candidated "MY" Elgin Baylor (does my nomination of him count, if it was earlier but nobody saw it in that earlier thread???)

I also candidated John Stockton, imo, easily the All-Time 2nd Best PG. (The only PG I'd think twice about replacing with Magic - he was that good offensively and better defensively *). I've got him as my "GOAT" #2 All-Time TEAM-mate. Besides, he might not have had a great PEAK; but his LONG career was basically all one steady, consistently excellent PRIME.

My only "problems" with Hakeem is: non-simultaneous offensive/defensive PEAK & less than 10 combined ALL-NBA 1st-Team + 2nd-Team (in other words, he was NOT a Top 2 Center for 10 Years; given the incredible "crop" of Centers, these two things drop him just out of my GOAT Top 10. OTOH, I can accept awesome arguments in his favor.

I guess it's kind of like how I feel about Bill Walton. Based on 1.8 or so SUPER seasons (in Portland) and a splendid 6th man with the Cs, I might take him as my GOAT #1; but that just doesn't seem fair to what, for most people, myself included, GOAT Top 10 is really all about.

* I often wonder if Magic could have gotten either of those two Jazz Finals teams over the hump.

Pablonovi
06-30-2014, 09:44 AM
Hey ManRam,
I'm thinking (imagine that!) ...
I'm thinking that you should "adjust" your thread-making "schedule" to allow more time the higher up the list we are; and less time the lower down the list we get.

Makes sense, no? I mean, with the exception of personal favorites; the overwhelming majority of us, the overwhelming majority of the time, care (much) more about the debates and votes involving the Top guys over the lower guys.

NYKalltheway
06-30-2014, 11:10 AM
Magic Johnson

Longhornfan1234
06-30-2014, 01:54 PM
Magic Johnson.

Jeffy25
06-30-2014, 09:24 PM
Shaq takes this spot for me.

IversonIsKrazy
06-30-2014, 09:56 PM
going w/Larry legend

ThuglifeJ
06-30-2014, 10:11 PM
Lol Tim Duncan beats Lebron in the finals again, with his team blowing them out the waters to add...and he's still going to get beat by him in this voting.

Go figure

JordansBulls
06-30-2014, 10:18 PM
So you are off the Bill Russell bandwagon finally? You always had Russell in your top 3, how come you are taking Magic here over Russell then?

Actually I was between forums so figured Russ was already selected then figured Magic was next.

bucketss
07-01-2014, 03:40 AM
Lol Tim Duncan beats Lebron in the finals again, with his team blowing them out the waters to add...and he's still going to get beat by him in this voting.

Go figure

spurs beat the heat/cavs**

vics
07-01-2014, 07:43 AM
If Lebron's not top 3, at least he's top 4 all time. to good not to be at the top.

NYKalltheway
07-01-2014, 08:03 AM
If Lebron's not top 3, at least he's top 4 all time. to good not to be at the top.

Lebron is not even a top 10 player.

kdspurman
07-01-2014, 09:20 AM
Lol Tim Duncan beats Lebron in the finals again, with his team blowing them out the waters to add...and he's still going to get beat by him in this voting.

Go figure

Yea, I don't think Lebron should go higher than Duncan by any means. I guess we'll see how people vote in the upcoming polls.

Tony_Starks
07-01-2014, 08:16 PM
Magic......shouldn't be this low tho but whateva

Tony_Starks
07-01-2014, 08:19 PM
Lol Tim Duncan beats Lebron in the finals again, with his team blowing them out the waters to add...and he's still going to get beat by him in this voting.

Go figure

Lol. I'm shocked he didn't get 3rd. On here there's no way he'll go lower than 5 with these sheep....

Pablonovi
07-01-2014, 11:46 PM
I think our overall voting is pretty decent.
Everybody I had in the GOAT Top 4, were voted into it (though not in my order: KAJ, Magic, MJ, Wilt). But I can live with the order we've collectively come up with.

Further, in this poll in particular, most of the people who got most of the votes are in my GOAT Top 10:
5 LBJ,
6-8 Kobe
6-8 Shaq
6-8 TD
9 West
10 Dr. J

Only the last two of my "Top 10ers" got little or no votes.