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ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 04:51 PM
I understand taking less to win is admireable to some. But aren't the league rules being bent here? Under-the-table promises for contract negotiations?

Why Wade would Opt-out of that contract without under the table promises from Riley?
Same with Haslem, for a player who probably wont get more than a 1 year vet min deal anymore to opt out of a almost $5 million guaranteed for one year seems shady

Dade County
06-28-2014, 04:59 PM
Just stop it.

goingfor28
06-28-2014, 04:59 PM
Yes. Call the cops!

bucketss
06-28-2014, 05:01 PM
taking less to win is illegal?

Aust
06-28-2014, 05:03 PM
You aren't allowed to negotiate with your players under contract?

KobeOwnSU
06-28-2014, 05:04 PM
It's not illegal. They were on the same team. If their own owner and FO can't talk to them about a contract while under contract how the hell does anybody accomplish contract extensions? If they all want to take less only to lose again, more power to them.

cssdmark
06-28-2014, 05:06 PM
They are colluding but it is not illegal

Raps08-09 Champ
06-28-2014, 05:06 PM
Until they opt out, Riley can tell them whatever they want.

RowBTrice
06-28-2014, 05:06 PM
Not illegal but they are all *****es still

saints.raptors
06-28-2014, 05:07 PM
I think he means the apparent deals management is making with players before they are permitted to. I think what they seem to be doing now is fine.

Crackadalic
06-28-2014, 05:12 PM
Seriously?

They are apart of the same team and they are allowed to negotiate however they like with their own players

bucketss
06-28-2014, 05:14 PM
thuglife take this L right quick son.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-28-2014, 05:14 PM
I think he means the apparent deals management is making with players before they are permitted to. I think what they seem to be doing now is fine.

Teams talk contract extension talks well before the end of the season I bet.

ManRam
06-28-2014, 05:15 PM
No. It's not illegal.

/thread

Cromedome
06-28-2014, 05:16 PM
They all should be put in jail.

FraziersKnicks
06-28-2014, 05:20 PM
thuglife take this L right quick son.

This :laugh2:

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 05:20 PM
Why would Wade Opt-Out though? Not buying it. No one gives that much $ away.


This isn't a million or two million $ paycut. For Wade to take a contract that will give him half the money per year of the contract he just opted out of smells funky

Raps08-09 Champ
06-28-2014, 05:21 PM
Why would Wade Opt-Out though? Not buying it. No one gives that much $ away.


This isn't a million or two million $ paycut. For Wade to take a contract that will give him half the money per year of the contract he just opted out of smells funky

Duncan did the same thing. Dirk wil do the same. As will other players over the hill will do for their franchise.

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 05:23 PM
How isn't this breaking rules giving promises? No way Wade opts out without being promised at least something decent.. He probably couldn't get more than a 1 or 2 year deal around 11M a year on the open market right now.


Please explain how I'm wrong and getting flamed for this?

HandsOnTheWheel
06-28-2014, 05:24 PM
Anything to rip on Miami!

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 05:24 PM
Well then maybe it isn't illegal? Close the thread then. I thought under-table promises were against league rules.

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 05:25 PM
Anything to rip on Miami!

Why? I'll let the 2014 Finals do the talking there.

hugepatsfan
06-28-2014, 05:25 PM
Not illegal because they're already under contract. Now if they're talking about their plans with other players (Melo, Lowry, Gortat, whoever) then it might be a problem. If it's the players talking with those outside guys then I'm not sure it's illegal provided it's just them throwing around ideas. Now if LBJ/Wade/Bosh/Haslem are talking with Riley and then sharing those plans with other players I think we have a problem. And to be honest, I think all of us with common sense know that's the case. And it doesn't happen just in MIA either. I'm sure it's going on with HOU, CHI and other places trying to recruit major FAs right now. MIA is just the most prominent example because we all know about the collusion that happened 4 years ago and now it appears they're doing it again.

Maybe I'm just young and naive but I don't seem to remember this ever being as big a problem in the NBA as it was now. We have guys 2 and 3 years away from free agency plotting with guys on other teams for how they're going to team up. And this is NOT just a MIA issue like some people try to make it out to be. This is a league wide issue. If this trend continues it's going to be DEATH on a lot of teams. In the NBA you have no hope of winning without a superstar. Teams that don't have one now are starting to tank left and right for those stars. Now, even if they get one, they need to keep tanking for another star or 2 so that the one they just got doesn't leave. If they don't succeed in getting other stars after accomplishing the difficult task of getting one, then the first guy just leaves to play with a star somewhere else (or that other star comes and joins the team so the other team is left without a star). We're getting to a point where half the league wants to tank, a quarter of it really wants to win and the last quarter is just stuck in no man's land in the middle. It makes for an awful, awful season IMO. The disparity between the East and the West makes it even worse. If there was an even distribution of top teams in the East and West then at least the last few rounds of the playoffs would be exciting. But right now, the East isn't even worth watching at all. The Western Conference playoffs and the NBA Finals are quickly becoming the only thing that are even worth watching to the average fan who isn't a diehard of his favorite team.

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 05:28 PM
Not illegal because they're already under contract. Now if they're talking about their plans with other players (Melo, Lowry, Gortat, whoever) then it might be a problem. If it's the players talking with those outside guys then I'm not sure it's illegal provided it's just them throwing around ideas. Now if LBJ/Wade/Bosh/Haslem are talking with Riley and then sharing those plans with other players I think we have a problem. And to be honest, I think all of us with common sense know that's the case. And it doesn't happen just in MIA either. I'm sure it's going on with HOU, CHI and other places trying to recruit major FAs right now. MIA is just the most prominent example because we all know about the collusion that happened 4 years ago and now it appears they're doing it again.

Maybe I'm just young and naive but I don't seem to remember this ever being as big a problem in the NBA as it was now. We have guys 2 and 3 years away from free agency plotting with guys on other teams for how they're going to team up. And this is NOT just a MIA issue like some people try to make it out to be. This is a league wide issue. If this trend continues it's going to be DEATH on a lot of teams. In the NBA you have no hope of winning without a superstar. Teams that don't have one now are starting to tank left and right for those stars. Now, even if they get one, they need to keep tanking for another star or 2 so that the one they just got doesn't leave. If they don't succeed in getting other stars after accomplishing the difficult task of getting one, then the first guy just leaves to play with a star somewhere else (or that other star comes and joins the team so the other team is left without a star). We're getting to a point where half the league wants to tank, a quarter of it really wants to win and the last quarter is just stuck in no man's land in the middle. It makes for an awful, awful season IMO. The disparity between the East and the West makes it even worse. If there was an even distribution of top teams in the East and West then at least the last few rounds of the playoffs would be exciting. But right now, the East isn't even worth watching at all. The Western Conference playoffs and the NBA Finals are quickly becoming the only thing that are even worth watching to the average fan who isn't a diehard of his favorite team.


Thanks.

And yes maybe I'm naive to because I never remembered it much like this..seemed players just played and if moves happened? Then they'd transition themselves to the new team, not during the season if they're unhappy where they are.

Htownballa1622
06-28-2014, 05:29 PM
Here's thuglife…. :crying:

blahblahyoutoo
06-28-2014, 05:29 PM
it's as illegal as seizing the team from sterling.

Cromedome
06-28-2014, 05:42 PM
I hope Dwayne Wade gets caught because this is worse than selling drugs to children.

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 05:49 PM
Here's thuglife…. :crying:

an emocon? at least post a gif.
weak.

bucketss
06-28-2014, 05:51 PM
Why? I'll let the 2014 Finals do the talking there.

what about the previous two years?

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 05:55 PM
it's as illegal as seizing the team from sterling.

I don't know if you actually meant for this to be a good analogy but it actually is a really good one.. It is technically illegal, but will be done anyways.

This is true for both cases.

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 05:57 PM
what about the previous two years?

K? They won their expected championships? Good for you guys! What about 2011? With the infamous choking antics by Lebron or 2014 with the 60+ points victory by the Spurs?

What? That's not enough to rip on? lol I sure think it is

TylerSL
06-28-2014, 05:59 PM
Haha its not. They are still under contract until 12:00 a.m. July 1.

GottaLoveCubs
06-28-2014, 06:00 PM
The players association probably isn't happy with the stars taking less money. By the best player in the league taking less money, it kills everyone elses value too. "Lebron is only making 19 a year, you aren't anywhere close to him so we'll give you 12 a year."

Htownballa1622
06-28-2014, 06:02 PM
an emocon? at least post a gif.
weak.

:moon:

QueensG_718
06-28-2014, 06:04 PM
Put them in jail and throw away the keys. Those *****es would like it tho

bucketss
06-28-2014, 06:05 PM
K? They won their expected championships? Good for you guys! What about 2011? With the infamous choking antics by Lebron or 2014 with the 60+ points victory by the Spurs?

What? That's not enough to rip on? lol I sure think it is

any team would be happy with 2 out of 4 years.

therealwd27
06-28-2014, 06:05 PM
Lol this is sad

Wade n Fade
06-28-2014, 06:06 PM
Omg, this is like insider training guys. We need to use the fullest extent of the law to punish them. This is a horrible thread that needs to die after I finish posting.... now.

therealwd27
06-28-2014, 06:07 PM
any team would be happy with 2 out of 4 years.

Lol don't waste your time speaking logical to him. He's on the Amoser illusionist JerelHill level

therealwd27
06-28-2014, 06:08 PM
K? They won their expected championships? Good for you guys! What about 2011? With the infamous choking antics by Lebron or 2014 with the 60+ points victory by the Spurs?

What? That's not enough to rip on? lol I sure think it is

Just worry about your team and your 1st round exits for the next 5 years lol.

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 06:16 PM
Just worry about your team and your 1st round exits for the next 5 years lol.

If you hadn't been lucky to get the 'superteam' in 2011 where would you be? I don't think you'd be making pushes in the playoffs quite frankly

NYYCowboys
06-28-2014, 06:17 PM
It's not illegal but I'm sure it's frowned upon by the players union.

HandsOnTheWheel
06-28-2014, 06:17 PM
Why? I'll let the 2014 Finals do the talking there.

They lost to the better team? Are you trying to say that the Heat were expected to win the title this year?

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 06:22 PM
any team would be happy with 2 out of 4 years.

Haha love this one. Never gets old.

bucketss
06-28-2014, 06:24 PM
Just worry about your team and your 1st round exits for the next 5 years lol.

he doesn't have a team he just follows vince carter around, lol so i guess you're right about the 1st round exits for the next 5 years.

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 06:24 PM
They lost to the better team? Are you trying to say that the Heat were expected to win the title this year?

They lost by 15+ points nearly every game.
Weak

naps
06-28-2014, 06:24 PM
This OP can't take it anymore. Reminds me a lot about my last girlfriend I dumped.

NBA_Starter
06-28-2014, 06:32 PM
Put him away..

beasted86
06-28-2014, 06:42 PM
Yes. Call the cops!
Have you seen The Godfather?

Um, I don't think that's a healthy decision.

beasted86
06-28-2014, 06:44 PM
Just worry about your team and your 1st round exits for the next 5 years lol.

Bang!

Jamiecballer
06-28-2014, 07:35 PM
I agree in the sense that I don't think in the future players should be allowed to opt out only to resign with their current teams.

But no, not illegal.

Dade County
06-28-2014, 07:39 PM
I agree in the sense that I don't think in the future players should be allowed to opt out only to resign with their current teams.

But no, not illegal.

What?

I am tired of people trying to change the rules every time the HEAT try to make moves.


Have you always been saying this (like starting 10yrs ago)?

JasonJohnHorn
06-28-2014, 07:44 PM
If players and teams make deals meant to circumvent the salary cap, then YES, it IS illegal.

The Timberwoves made such a deal with Joe Smith. The told him if he took less, then opted out once they had his Bird right's, they would give him more.

When the Heat signed LBJ, Bosh and Wade, they had to rescind their Bird rights to Haslem. IF Haslem simply took less to help the team win THAT is fine. HOWEVER, IF the Heat told him: take less now and then when you opt out in four years we will have your Bird right and THEN give you compensation to taking less now, THAT would be an illegal deal.

That is what the T-Wolves did and they had the deal rescinded and lost several first-round draft picks in the process.

Likewise, had Wade convinced Bosh and LBJ to join the Heat whilst they were still under contract the Toronto and Cleveland, that would be illegal. If they are now going to take less so the Heat can bring in Lowry, that is fine, but if they are agreeing to take less with the promise that they will be compensated later, THEN THAT would be illegal.

Cromedome
06-28-2014, 07:48 PM
If there's any justice in this world....they all would be sent to prison for life. Don't yank my chain and call me Susan.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-28-2014, 07:50 PM
I agree in the sense that I don't think in the future players should be allowed to opt out only to resign with their current teams.

But no, not illegal.

A lot of players like the opt out option for the financial security too I would think.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-28-2014, 07:51 PM
If players and teams make deals meant to circumvent the salary cap, then YES, it IS illegal.

The Timberwoves made such a deal with Joe Smith. The told him if he took less, then opted out once they had his Bird right's, they would give him more.

When the Heat signed LBJ, Bosh and Wade, they had to rescind their Bird rights to Haslem. IF Haslem simply took less to help the team win THAT is fine. HOWEVER, IF the Heat told him: take less now and then when you opt out in four years we will have your Bird right and THEN give you compensation to taking less now, THAT would be an illegal deal.

That is what the T-Wolves did and they had the deal rescinded and lost several first-round draft picks in the process.

Likewise, had Wade convinced Bosh and LBJ to join the Heat whilst they were still under contract the Toronto and Cleveland, that would be illegal. If they are now going to take less so the Heat can bring in Lowry, that is fine, but if they are agreeing to take less with the promise that they will be compensated later, THEN THAT would be illegal.

Good thing they aren't being compensated later on then.

bucketss
06-28-2014, 08:13 PM
I agree in the sense that I don't think in the future players should be allowed to opt out only to resign with their current teams.

But no, not illegal.

i don't think thats fair tho because a lot of players opt out to get more money + more years.

Saddletramp
06-28-2014, 08:34 PM
ThuglifeJ is nothing but a troll that got butthurt because these opt outs mean that they'll probably have enough to sign some better players and the Mavs won't get a chance at LeBron.



We need to stop feeding the troll.

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 08:38 PM
This OP can't take it anymore. Reminds me a lot about my last girlfriend I dumped.

Yah you rock on the internet man.

mightybosstone
06-28-2014, 08:39 PM
The love the double standards fans have for players in the NBA they don't like. The average superstar takes less money to help his team win? It's considered an honorable gesture and the guy is praised for years. The Heat players do exactly the same thing? They're complete cowards who should be ridiculed forever. Instead of *****ing about the Heat players for opting out to potentially take less money and help their team win, how about giving credit where credit is due and showing them a little respect?

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 08:42 PM
If players and teams make deals meant to circumvent the salary cap, then YES, it IS illegal.

The Timberwoves made such a deal with Joe Smith. The told him if he took less, then opted out once they had his Bird right's, they would give him more.

When the Heat signed LBJ, Bosh and Wade, they had to rescind their Bird rights to Haslem. IF Haslem simply took less to help the team win THAT is fine. HOWEVER, IF the Heat told him: take less now and then when you opt out in four years we will have your Bird right and THEN give you compensation to taking less now, THAT would be an illegal deal.

That is what the T-Wolves did and they had the deal rescinded and lost several first-round draft picks in the process.

Likewise, had Wade convinced Bosh and LBJ to join the Heat whilst they were still under contract the Toronto and Cleveland, that would be illegal. If they are now going to take less so the Heat can bring in Lowry, that is fine, but if they are agreeing to take less with the promise that they will be compensated later, THEN THAT would be illegal.

Really was looking for a response like this thanks. Clears it up. Don't know why everyone is pissing and moaning about me asking. Don't take it personally.

Interweb

Hawkeye15
06-28-2014, 08:45 PM
I understand taking less to win is admireable to some. But aren't the league rules being bent here? Under-the-table promises for contract negotiations?

Why Wade would Opt-out of that contract without under the table promises from Riley?
Same with Haslem, for a player who probably wont get more than a 1 year vet min deal anymore to opt out of a almost $5 million guaranteed for one year seems shady

if they go under the table, sure it's illegal. So far, during their careers, these players have made:

LeBron: $130 million, at age 29, with endorsements that exceed his basketball pay
Wade: $121 million at age 32, with tons of endorsements, also now married to a woman who makes a few million a year for a lot longer than his career will last
Bosh: $123 million at age 29, plus some endorsements.

Do these guys really care if they take a little paycut if it puts them right back into being the favorites to win? They have made a ton of money, and LeBron/Bosh will most likely sign ANOTHER contract after the one they are going to sign in a few weeks.

Haslem is the ultimate team player.

People can get upset, annoyed, whatever. How the **** do you think the Spurs kept being a super power despite their stars aging? Their stars took less money so they could get some more help. Miami is simply following the recipe....

Hawkeye15
06-28-2014, 08:46 PM
Really was looking for a response like this thanks. Clears it up. Don't know why everyone is pissing and moaning about me asking. Don't take it personally.

Interweb

if there was an under the table deal(s) that come up, it's illegal. I would guess that chances of that are slim to none.

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-28-2014, 08:46 PM
Good thing they aren't being compensated later on then.

That is what the OP is asking. Why lose 10 million a year for the next two years? Unless you're not actually losing it. Its actually being paid by $10 million into a Swiss bank account, and $10 million from an NBA team? Only 10 million counts against the cap, thus the team being able to stack the deck in their favor.

We know for a fact one team did it already. It's not a out of this world question to ask.

If I was a billionaire who owned an NBA team and I really wanted to win. I would give a trusted friend of mine money and tell him that he is going to put that money into certain accounts for certain players as long as they sign with my team. I would inform him to act as if he was just a huge fan of the team and wanted to see them succeed. He could not tell any of the players that he knew me in any shape or form. He could tell them if you sign for less to allow the team room for more talent, ill make up the difference and then some.

The owner wins in that scenario. He avoids the luxury tax, he fields a team seemingly too good to be true, And he has a chance to be in the finals every year. Especially if he is smart enough to buy a team in a conference where there are only retards running around giving his team an intentional walk to the finals. Its truly brilliant if you think about it

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 08:48 PM
Just worry about your team and your 1st round exits for the next 5 years lol.

Bang!

Ah heat lose 4 1 in blowouts. Bang?

Hawkeye15
06-28-2014, 08:49 PM
To the OP, the reason why you are getting pushback is because you have a history of openly disliking LeBron, the Heat, and everything about them. This thread comes off as a person who wanted so badly for the Heat to fade into obscurity (this comes from your history), and now seems upset that they are simply going to re-tool, the stars will take less money, and they will be back and a much better team next year.

We make our bed on this site. I have learned that. We all do after a period of time. I could praise Kobe Bryant for 6 months in a row and still be called a Kobe hater.

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 08:49 PM
Really was looking for a response like this thanks. Clears it up. Don't know why everyone is pissing and moaning about me asking. Don't take it personally.

Interweb

if there was an under the table deal(s) that come up, it's illegal. I would guess that chances of that are slim to none.
Ok so I was right then?

bucketss
06-28-2014, 08:51 PM
hey thuglife... what would you do if miami signs vince carter?

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 08:51 PM
To the OP, the reason why you are getting pushback is because you have a history of openly disliking LeBron, the Heat, and everything about them. This thread comes off as a person who wanted so badly for the Heat to fade into obscurity (this comes from your history), and now seems upset that they are simply going to re-tool, the stars will take less money, and they will be back and a much better team next year.

We make our bed on this site. I have learned that. We all do after a period of time. I could praise Kobe Bryant for 6 months in a row and still be called a Kobe hater.

So? I don't have to like them wtf lol

And that's not how I meant it

mightybosstone
06-28-2014, 08:51 PM
If players and teams make deals meant to circumvent the salary cap, then YES, it IS illegal.

The Timberwoves made such a deal with Joe Smith. The told him if he took less, then opted out once they had his Bird right's, they would give him more.

When the Heat signed LBJ, Bosh and Wade, they had to rescind their Bird rights to Haslem. IF Haslem simply took less to help the team win THAT is fine. HOWEVER, IF the Heat told him: take less now and then when you opt out in four years we will have your Bird right and THEN give you compensation to taking less now, THAT would be an illegal deal.

That is what the T-Wolves did and they had the deal rescinded and lost several first-round draft picks in the process.

Likewise, had Wade convinced Bosh and LBJ to join the Heat whilst they were still under contract the Toronto and Cleveland, that would be illegal. If they are now going to take less so the Heat can bring in Lowry, that is fine, but if they are agreeing to take less with the promise that they will be compensated later, THEN THAT would be illegal.

But who is to say that's actually happening in any of these case? You're suggesting that Miami is offering these guys some extra money on the back end to take less now. But the only way to prove that's the case is if they ACTUALLY are given more money on the end of their deals. And by then, what the hell is the league going to do? Strip them of any titles? I seriously doubt it.

So while it's possible there could be some shady, somewhat illegal business dealings going on, I don't think there's any way you can prove it. And I don't think Miami is doing anything or using any tactic that other NBA teams aren't using.

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-28-2014, 08:54 PM
if they go under the table, sure it's illegal. So far, during their careers, these players have made:

LeBron: $130 million, at age 29, with endorsements that exceed his basketball pay
Wade: $121 million at age 32, with tons of endorsements, also now married to a woman who makes a few million a year for a lot longer than his career will last
Bosh: $123 million at age 29, plus some endorsements.

Do these guys really care if they take a little paycut if it puts them right back into being the favorites to win? They have made a ton of money, and LeBron/Bosh will most likely sign ANOTHER contract after the one they are going to sign in a few weeks.

Haslem is the ultimate team player.

People can get upset, annoyed, whatever. How the **** do you think the Spurs kept being a super power despite their stars aging? Their stars took less money so they could get some more help. Miami is simply following the recipe....

Actually the Spurs stars took less money and the team didn't use it to sign anyone. Look at their team salaries. All their players are on rookie to vet minimum deals with the exception of their center who makes around $10 million a year. I don't think they took a pay cut to give him all the money. The Spurs big 3 took a pay cut and all it has done for them is keep their owner out of the tax penalty.

Can you name a free agent they used that money to sign?

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 08:55 PM
If players and teams make deals meant to circumvent the salary cap, then YES, it IS illegal.

The Timberwoves made such a deal with Joe Smith. The told him if he took less, then opted out once they had his Bird right's, they would give him more.

When the Heat signed LBJ, Bosh and Wade, they had to rescind their Bird rights to Haslem. IF Haslem simply took less to help the team win THAT is fine. HOWEVER, IF the Heat told him: take less now and then when you opt out in four years we will have your Bird right and THEN give you compensation to taking less now, THAT would be an illegal deal.

That is what the T-Wolves did and they had the deal rescinded and lost several first-round draft picks in the process.

Likewise, had Wade convinced Bosh and LBJ to join the Heat whilst they were still under contract the Toronto and Cleveland, that would be illegal. If they are now going to take less so the Heat can bring in Lowry, that is fine, but if they are agreeing to take less with the promise that they will be compensated later, THEN THAT would be illegal.

But who is to say that's actually happening in any of these case? You're suggesting that Miami is offering these guys some extra money on the back end to take less now. But the only way to prove that's the case is if they ACTUALLY are given more money on the end of their deals. And by then, what the hell is the league going to do? Strip them of any titles? I seriously doubt it.

So while it's possible there could be some shady, somewhat illegal business dealings going on, I don't think there's any way you can prove it. And I don't think Miami is doing anything or using any tactic that other NBA teams aren't using.

Because wade and haslem wouldn't drop that much garunteed money unless they knew

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 09:00 PM
hey thuglife... what would you do if miami signs vince carter?

It will be very bittersweet. I'm a raptors fan first but would rather Vince stay in Dallas if he doesn't return. I simply don't like them, their city, or respect how they teamed up. Nor should I have to. Don't want VC riding that bus to end his career...plus Cuban said he won't let him go elsewhere

Hawkeye15
06-28-2014, 09:01 PM
Ok so I was right then?

if they signed an illegal deal, yes.

I am a Wolves fan. I am an expert on this haha

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 09:02 PM
Ok so I was right then?

if they signed an illegal deal, yes.

I am a Wolves fan. I am an expert on this haha

Well thanks for lookimg subjectively at it then

Hawkeye15
06-28-2014, 09:02 PM
Actually the Spurs stars took less money and the team didn't use it to sign anyone. Look at their team salaries. All their players are on rookie to vet minimum deals with the exception of their center who makes around $10 million a year. I don't think they took a pay cut to give him all the money. The Spurs big 3 took a pay cut and all it has done for them is keep their owner out of the tax penalty.

Can you name a free agent they used that money to sign?

sure they did. They used it to keep their own players. The Spurs FO is amazing at drafting. Without their stars sacrificing, they never have the room to keep their own players, let alone acquire cheap talent in FA.

amos1er
06-28-2014, 09:03 PM
What about when they were all on different teams back in 2010... That can't be legal. Hard to prove yes, but definitely illegal.

Hawkeye15
06-28-2014, 09:05 PM
What about when they were all on different teams back in 2010... That can't be legal. Hard to prove yes, but definitely illegal.

the players apparently had been planning that well before it all came together.

and yes, impossible to prove anything, so it's a waste of time complaining about it.

amos1er
06-28-2014, 09:10 PM
the players apparently had been planning that well before it all came together.

and yes, impossible to prove anything, so it's a waste of time complaining about it.

I was replying to another persons post on the first page... I just forgot to quote them... But yes, this whole point is a waste of time to complain about. Collusion is near impossible to prove and it happens a ton in the NBA and has happened throughout it's history. If we complain about this, than we have to bring up every other suspected collusion effort as well. Being a Lakers fan, I really don't want to go down that road... Lol.

mightybosstone
06-28-2014, 09:10 PM
the players apparently had been planning that well before it all came together.

and yes, impossible to prove anything, so it's a waste of time complaining about it.

Plus, I don't know how it's illegal for players who are friends outside of basketball to discuss their futures and the possibility of playing together. Guys are going to talk to one another. And when you have three friends who play together on the US Men's National Team who are all going to be free agents the same exact year, it's inevitable that it's a conversation that's going to come up.

You certainly can't penalize a front office for that. Should the league punish the players for it? I don't think they can or should be able to in the first place.

Hawkeye15
06-28-2014, 09:11 PM
I was replying to another persons post on the first page... I just forgot to quote them... But yes, this whole point is a waste of time to complain about. Collusion is near impossible to prove and it happens a ton in the NBA and has happened throughout it's history. If we complain about this, than we have to bring up every other suspected collusion effort as well. Being a Lakers fan, I really don't want to go down that road... Lol.

haha, touche

mightybosstone
06-28-2014, 09:12 PM
Because wade and haslem wouldn't drop that much garunteed money unless they knew

Or maybe they would if it means winning more rings together? I certainly don't think them giving up the guaranteed money means they're receiving any sort of illegal, behind-the-scenes bonus. And there's no way you can possibly prove they are.

Hawkeye15
06-28-2014, 09:12 PM
Plus, I don't know how it's illegal for players who are friends outside of basketball to discuss their futures and the possibility of playing together. Guys are going to talk to one another. And when you have three friends who play together on the US Men's National Team who are all going to be free agents the same exact year, it's inevitable that it's a conversation that's going to come up.

You certainly can't penalize a front office for that. Should the league punish the players for it? I don't think they can or should be able to in the first place.

the league would have no grounds unless there was documented proof of front office tampering. Good luck finding any of that..

therealwd27
06-28-2014, 09:12 PM
A great day for Heat fans

Jint.
06-28-2014, 09:13 PM
I blame Lebron

bucketss
06-28-2014, 09:13 PM
I was replying to another persons post on the first page... I just forgot to quote them... But yes, this whole point is a waste of time to complain about. Collusion is near impossible to prove and it happens a ton in the NBA and has happened throughout it's history. If we complain about this, than we have to bring up every other suspected collusion effort as well. Being a Lakers fan, I really don't want to go down that road... Lol.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Hawkeye15
06-28-2014, 09:14 PM
Or maybe they would if it means winning more rings together? I certainly don't think them giving up the guaranteed money means they're receiving any sort of illegal, behind-the-scenes bonus. And there's no way you can possibly prove they are.

Bosh and LeBron are 29. They are guaranteed millions more haha, as is Wade on a team friendly extension where they will pay him his money, just spread it out.

Like LeBron won't make another $100+ million playing basketball, plus much more in endorsements? Why does he care about losing a couple of years of guaranteed money that he will re-coup anyways?

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 09:14 PM
Because wade and haslem wouldn't drop that much garunteed money unless they knew

Or maybe they would if it means winning more rings together? I certainly don't think them giving up the guaranteed money means they're receiving any sort of illegal, behind-the-scenes bonus. And there's no way you can possibly prove they are.

I can't prove that obviously. But review wades contract again. Wade doesn't drop that contract. You think Riley won't pull strings?

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-28-2014, 09:18 PM
sure they did. They used it to keep their own players. The Spurs FO is amazing at drafting. Without their stars sacrificing, they never have the room to keep their own players, let alone acquire cheap talent in FA.
Anyone can sign their own players. Look at the Spurs roster for this year. Splitter makes 10 and Diaw makes 4. Those are the highest paid guys they have past the big 3.
Splitter was drafted by them and they used the mid level exception on Boris which they could have used even if all big 3 took max money. The Spurs did not use their cap money like Miami is trying to. Miami wants to use it on free agents. The Spurs used their pay cuts to avoid the tax.

ghettosean
06-28-2014, 09:32 PM
K? They won their expected championships? Good for you guys! What about 2011? With the infamous choking antics by Lebron or 2014 with the 60+ points victory by the Spurs?

What? That's not enough to rip on? lol I sure think it is

any team would be happy with 2 out of 4 years.

Say that to Jordans Bulls :D

slashsnake
06-28-2014, 10:17 PM
I can't prove that obviously. But review wades contract again. Wade doesn't drop that contract. You think Riley won't pull strings?

What strings?? Either Riley offers him a new deal he is ok with, or he offers one Wade doesn't like and he goes elsewhere. It isn't like Riley can circumvent the cap to give him more money here.

Remember... Players on different teams who discuss the idea of someday playing together is not tampering or collusion that is prohibited.

d00d
06-28-2014, 10:28 PM
Riley is one of the dirtiest mother ****ers you will ever encounter. Of course he breaks the rules of the NBA. The Miami Heat are hated because they take the easy way to rings but also do it in a dark deceitful way.

Haslem opting out is a great example OP.

NBA_Starter
06-28-2014, 10:30 PM
Rules are bent in every sport, people want to win.

dnl123
06-28-2014, 10:38 PM
Spurs did the same thing.

Saddletramp
06-28-2014, 10:45 PM
I'm pretty sure Wade's reasoning for opting out (and maybe Bosh's) was when LeBron opted out and told them something along the lines of: "I just opted out to get us help but if you guys don't opt out and take a pay cut too, then I'm leaving." And Haslem is like a loyal pitbull. They tell him what to do and he does it.


None of that is illegal. Stop reaching.

DemarDerozan
06-28-2014, 10:50 PM
Doesn't matter. They are still not getting past the Spurs or 3-4 other teams in the West even with Melo.

They are starting to look a lot like the Malone and Payton Lakers than champions. Which is pretty pathetic. Lebron will probably leave anyway. Just like he left Cleveland despite the franchise jumping through hoops to keep him.

He ends up with a proven winner with proven stars and coaching.

Not Spoeltras dumb *** and 52 year old Dwade.

DemarDerozan
06-28-2014, 10:54 PM
Riley is one of the dirtiest mother ****ers you will ever encounter. Of course he breaks the rules of the NBA. The Miami Heat are hated because they take the easy way to rings but also do it in a dark deceitful way.

Haslem opting out is a great example OP.

I would say he's more slimy than dirty. But agree with everything you said.

DemarDerozan
06-28-2014, 10:56 PM
Not trying to turn this into a BronBron thing but his legacy is ruined. Even if he wins another MVP. The West has Miami figured out and if he wins somewhere else he will be known more for being disloyal rather than a winner.

Which is relieving. Because I've never like him.

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 11:01 PM
Riley is one of the dirtiest mother ****ers you will ever encounter. Of course he breaks the rules of the NBA. The Miami Heat are hated because they take the easy way to rings but also do it in a dark deceitful way.

Haslem opting out is a great example OP.

I see nothing wrong with this post. Good to see more people with a spine here.

You should definitely run and hide though because on here you will probably receive 10 infractions and be shunned by all the cool kids on the NBA board.

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 11:04 PM
Not trying to turn this into a BronBron thing but his legacy is ruined. Even if he wins another MVP. The West has Miami figured out and if he wins somewhere else he will be known more for being disloyal rather than a winner.

Which is relieving. Because I've never like him.

What took you guys so long?..

DemarDerozan
06-28-2014, 11:07 PM
I see nothing wrong with this post. Good to see more people with a spine here.

You should definitely run and hide though because on here you will probably receive 10 infractions and be shunned by all the cool kids on the NBA board.

The cool kids are too busy thinking of their new non-Miami loving names in case that team falls a part even more.

kdspurman
06-28-2014, 11:17 PM
Spurs did the same thing.

Not really, though I'm interested to hear why you think they did.

Bostonjorge
06-28-2014, 11:23 PM
Miami is becoming a bigger joke then they already are. James and co can't work and get better in the offseason to win. Before the season starts we all know Miami is already defeated unless they add another superstar player.

Okc are going to work and be a force next season. They will not add love, melo, Lowry, gortat or any stater type player and they will still take the spurs down.

Difference between a joke team that's getting every advantage u can think of and a team that has nothing but players who work hard to win.

bucketss
06-28-2014, 11:40 PM
Miami is becoming a bigger joke then they already are. James and co can't work and get better in the offseason to win. Before the season starts we all know Miami is already defeated unless they add another superstar player.

Okc are going to work and be a force next season. They will not add love, melo, Lowry, gortat or any stater type player and they will still take the spurs down.

Difference between a joke team that's getting every advantage u can think of and a team that has nothing but players who work hard to win.

we've been saying that about okc 2 years straight now, maybe when durant grows a sack and demands the ball from westbrook they can win.

lol but it just shows ur b ball iq, let me break it down to you, miami is one of the oldest teams in the league, wade is 32 and declining heavily, and bosh is 30 and has lost explosiveness.... now you're comparing it to 25 yr old durant and a young okc team SMH ofcourse they will get better

raiddalake
06-29-2014, 12:04 AM
Say that to Jordans Bulls :D
My point exactly. I was waiting for some one to say this. First of all i am a Laker fan I love Kobe the same way I loved Magic. I lived through the yeas of Magic vs Bird Magic vs Isiah Magic vs Stockton and Finally Magic vs Jordan. You get my point i believe if you are a Alpha dog you take your team to the fight and you prove you are who you say you are (KING). That is the real issue here its not illegal it is morally weak. I miss the Lebron vs Kobe Lebron vs Mello Lebron vs Wade. What about Bosh vs. anyone lol. He has killed his legacy should have went to a place where he could have established his owned legacy. He will be known as the other girl from three's company whats her name.......exactly.

Big Zo
06-29-2014, 12:09 AM
My point exactly. I was waiting for some one to say this. First of all i am a Laker fan I love Kobe the same way I loved Magic. I lived through the yeas of Magic vs Bird Magic vs Isiah Magic vs Stockton and Finally Magic vs Jordan. You get my point i believe if you are a Alpha dog you take your team to the fight and you prove you are who you say you are (KING). That is the real issue here its not illegal it is morally weak. I miss the Lebron vs Kobe Lebron vs Mello Lebron vs Wade. What about Bosh vs. anyone lol. He has killed his legacy should have went to a place where he could have established his owned legacy. He will be known as the other girl from three's company whats her name.......exactly.

It's real easy not to be "morally weak" when you're drafted to teams that have Kareem, and Shaq.

bucketss
06-29-2014, 12:13 AM
It's real easy not to be "morally weak" when you're drafted to teams that have Kareem, and Shaq.

but but but lebron had shaq to LMAO

raiddalake
06-29-2014, 12:16 AM
It's real easy not to be "morally weak" when you're drafted to teams that have Kareem, and Shaq.Key word DRAFT. You guys drafted Beasly you DRAFTED Wade so should i be compaining about your draft skills. Kobe and Shaq got there the same year by the way. LAkers werent that great the year before the got Magic either. Same way the Sixers could rise from the ashes (lil spurs). See me later if you have questions. But the point is those players you talk about came to a team that didnt have superstars until they drafted them.

DemarDerozan
06-29-2014, 12:21 AM
but but but lebron had shaq to LMAO

Lebron had excuses... Until he teamed up with the superfriends. They are the most embarrassing super team of all time. 1.5 championships is impressive but not as much after all of the lying, cHeating, and Lebroning. They will always be remembered as the team that took the easy way to the Finals.

bucketss
06-29-2014, 12:23 AM
Lebron had excuses... Until he teamed up with the superfriends. They are the most embarrassing super team of all time. 1.5 championships is impressive but not as much after all of the lying, cHeating, and Lebroning. They will always be remembered as the team that took the easy way to the Finals.

1.5 lmao keep reaching.

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 12:24 AM
Lebron had excuses... Until he teamed up with the superfriends. They are the most embarrassing super team of all time. 1.5 championships is impressive but not as much after all of the lying, cHeating, and Lebroning. They will always be remembered as the team that took the easy way to the Finals.

I'll always remember them as "Not 3!"


Spot on... Spot on.

Bigbadmoffo
06-29-2014, 12:24 AM
If the big 3 resign for less then they will be doing all owners a favor and lowering the value of all players. They will be the players that drastically lowered player salaries. I love the idea because players are already over payed.

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 12:27 AM
1.5 lmao keep reaching.

"Any team is happy with 2-4 in the finals :)"


Keep reaching.

raiddalake
06-29-2014, 12:27 AM
When he said not one not two not three he meant appearances lol. Look if Lebron came to the Lakers I would feel some sort of way. But I am a Laker fan so i would put the banner up and watch everygame anyways just like the rest of you guys even though you wont admit it lol. I just think he should be the lone star unless he recieved another one in the draft. If it were me i would go back to Cleveland. That roster would be pretty good with him Wiggins and Kyrie.

bucketss
06-29-2014, 12:28 AM
Key word DRAFT. You guys drafted Beasly you DRAFTED Wade so should i be compaining about your draft skills. Kobe and Shaq got there the same year by the way. LAkers werent that great the year before the got Magic either. Same way the Sixers could rise from the ashes (lil spurs). See me later if you have questions. But the point is those players you talk about came to a team that didnt have superstars until they drafted them.

kobe and magic were never put in that position as lebron lets be honest, kobe felt it for a little and already demanded a trade. completely different circumstances hilarious when you people try to compare it

bucketss
06-29-2014, 12:30 AM
"Any team is happy with 2-4 in the finals :)"


Keep reaching.

not a reach. considering only a few select teams have won a championship since the 80's, winning 2 chips in a 4 year span is amazing.

Big Zo
06-29-2014, 12:31 AM
Key word DRAFT. You guys drafted Beasly you DRAFTED Wade so should i be compaining about your draft skills. Kobe and Shaq got there the same year by the way. LAkers werent that great the year before the got Magic either. Same way the Sixers could rise from the ashes (lil spurs). See me later if you have questions. But the point is those players you talk about came to a team that didnt have superstars until they drafted them.
Uh... Those players I mentioned did have superstars when drafted. Kareem was already on the Lakers when Magic was drafted, and Shaq got there the same year Kobe was drafted. The Lakers also weren't that bad the year before Magic got there, having won 45 games, yet somehow were gifted the #1 pick.

bucketss
06-29-2014, 12:35 AM
Uh... Those players I mentioned did have superstars when drafted. Kareem was already on the Lakers when Magic was drafted, and Shaq got there the same year Kobe was drafted. The Lakers also weren't that bad the year before Magic got there, having won 45 games, yet somehow were gifted the #1 pick.

kobe was drafted before they signed shaq, so yeah same year BUT laker fans will make sure to let you know of that irrelevant point lol.

Big Zo
06-29-2014, 12:39 AM
kobe was drafted before they signed shaq, so yeah same year BUT laker fans will make sure to let you know of that irrelevant point lol.

I tell ya, anything to discredit. Must have been so hard for those guys having to play with other hall of famers, and coincidentally in big market cities that aren't in the middle of nowhere.

raiddalake
06-29-2014, 12:40 AM
Uh... Those players I mentioned did have superstars when drafted. Kareem was already on the Lakers when Magic was drafted, and Shaq got there the same year Kobe was drafted. The Lakers also weren't that bad the year before Magic got there, having won 45 games, yet somehow were gifted the #1 pick.
You miss the point they were drafted by there team. If people knew Kobe would be the mamba then the Hornets wouldnt have let him go on draft night. And gifted the #1 pick lol same way Clevland has gotten it damn near 3 years i a row. MAgic wasnt a superstar till he laced them up. He could have been Micheal Beasly lol.

Big Zo
06-29-2014, 12:46 AM
You miss the point they were drafted by there team. If people knew Kobe would be the mamba then the Hornets wouldnt have let him go on draft night. And gifted the #1 pick lol same way Clevland has gotten it damn near 3 years i a row. MAgic wasnt a superstar till he laced them up. He could have been Micheal Beasly lol.
Who cares if they were drafted by their team? The other superstars that they played with came from other teams. Do you consider Kareem and Shaq any less Lakers because they were drafted by Milwaukee, and orlando?

raiddalake
06-29-2014, 12:48 AM
So they played with a bunch of hall of famers lol. They were hall of famers because they were winners bro. They became hall of famers because they dominated their time. Back when Boston was winning over and over again they had teams with hall of famers on the bench. I mean there were only 18 teams back then but still. So the thing is Miami is a big market so you cant ever say anything about the market. Lebron Wade will stay Bosh not so sure but he was the weak link of the group right........ Then we will see how good your super team is......wait you should have Mello by then. I wonder who you guys will have for competition in the EAST. Doesnt matter because you will still get crushed when you play the WEST. Im not a Miami hater I actually like D Wade I just dont like how it went down that all im saying it takes the competition out of the league can we agree on that?

raiddalake
06-29-2014, 12:50 AM
The point is they were the only stars on the team when they came that was CAPS team until magic. Same for Shaq Kobe didnt start the first year he was a ball of potential.

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 12:52 AM
Who cares if they were drafted by their team? The other superstars that they played with came from other teams. Do you consider Kareem and Shaq any less Lakers because they were drafted by Milwaukee, and orlando?

Uhm. Yes lmao. I mean only slightly and I'm sure they are still considered Lakers no question but it's slightly because they actually spent many years in LA. Especially Kareem.... How long did Bosh and Lebron and whoever comes next spend in Miami? If Lebron spends the rest of his career in Miami he'll be considered more a Heat but no way he's ever more a Heat then Wade.

Be real.

Big Zo
06-29-2014, 12:54 AM
So they played with a bunch of hall of famers lol. They were hall of famers because they were winners bro. They became hall of famers because they dominated their time. Back when Boston was winning over and over again they had teams with hall of famers on the bench. I mean there were only 18 teams back then but still. So the thing is Miami is a big market so you cant ever say anything about the market. Lebron Wade will stay Bosh not so sure but he was the weak link of the group right........ Then we will see how good your super team is......wait you should have Mello by then. I wonder who you guys will have for competition in the EAST. Doesnt matter because you will still get crushed when you play the WEST. Im not a Miami hater I actually like D Wade I just dont like how it went down that all im saying it takes the competition out of the league can we agree on that?

The league is no different now, than it was 30 years ago. It's always been only a handful of teams with a realistic chance of winning a championship. That's why only 9 teams have won since 1980. You're obviously just mad because it's no longer your Lakers on top, and they're stuck with Jim Buss.

Mudvayne91
06-29-2014, 12:55 AM
I'm pretty certain this is super duper illegal and I'm not ok with it at all.

raiddalake
06-29-2014, 12:55 AM
Big Zo I love the conversation to many times these conversations turn to Hate I see why you defend your team I would to i just know deep down most people feel like Lebron should have tken his team to the ship and won on his own he went with a bunch of nuckle heads while he was in Cleveland just didnt give it a chance to mature there.

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 12:58 AM
The point is they were the only stars on the team when they came that was CAPS team until magic. Same for Shaq Kobe didnt start the first year he was a ball of potential.

You really shouldn't have to explain yourself man. This is basic knowledge. You can't say Lebron/Wade/Bosh teaming up is equivalent to these examples. You just can't, not even they would say that.

Big Zo
06-29-2014, 12:58 AM
Uhm. Yes lmao. I mean only slightly and I'm sure they are still considered Lakers no question but it's slightly because they actually spent many years in LA. Especially Kareem.... How long did Bosh and Lebron and whoever comes next spend in Miami? If Lebron spends the rest of his career in Miami he'll be considered more a Heat but no way he's ever more a Heat then Wade.

Be real.
Why would I give a crap about who's more Heat than who?

bucketss
06-29-2014, 01:01 AM
So they played with a bunch of hall of famers lol. They were hall of famers because they were winners bro. They became hall of famers because they dominated their time. Back when Boston was winning over and over again they had teams with hall of famers on the bench. I mean there were only 18 teams back then but still. So the thing is Miami is a big market so you cant ever say anything about the market. Lebron Wade will stay Bosh not so sure but he was the weak link of the group right........ Then we will see how good your super team is......wait you should have Mello by then. I wonder who you guys will have for competition in the EAST. Doesnt matter because you will still get crushed when you play the WEST. Im not a Miami hater I actually like D Wade I just dont like how it went down that all im saying it takes the competition out of the league can we agree on that?

why complain if they're gonna get crushed by the west anyways, doesn't seem very competitive.

Big Zo
06-29-2014, 01:01 AM
Uhm. Yes lmao. I mean only slightly and I'm sure they are still considered Lakers no question but it's slightly because they actually spent many years in LA. Especially Kareem.... How long did Bosh and Lebron and whoever comes next spend in Miami? If Lebron spends the rest of his career in Miami he'll be considered more a Heat but no way he's ever more a Heat then Wade.

Be real.


You really shouldn't have to explain yourself man. This is basic knowledge. You can't say Lebron/Wade/Bosh teaming up is equivalent to these examples. You just can't, not even they would say that.

No one said they were equivalent examples. They're not. The other guys were drafted into good situations, LeBron and Bosh weren't.

raiddalake
06-29-2014, 01:01 AM
The league is no different now, than it was 30 years ago. It's always been only a handful of teams with a realistic chance of winning a championship. That's why only 9 teams have won since 1980. You're obviously just mad because it's no longer your Lakers on top, and they're stuck with Jim Buss.
Zo we got 17 I mean we cant win them all its pretty tuff to do that i mean come on. I dont care if were not winning them now the thing about it is neither are the HEAT with that team be real yall should have atleast 4. But thats neither here are there I just dont like watching boring games. As long as the Clippers lose I straight right now. And yeah Jim Buss is wack but Im a laker 4 life how long have you been a heat fan i been around before them #baby Jordan

raiddalake
06-29-2014, 01:05 AM
Thats what i mean teams in the East dont have the fire power to go toe to toe with the heat so the run through everyone. Then when **** gets real the heat cant climb out the minor leagues. See last years championship. By the time they got right it was almost to late
(see Ray Allen's 3)

Big Zo
06-29-2014, 01:05 AM
Uhm. Yes lmao. I mean only slightly and I'm sure they are still considered Lakers no question but it's slightly because they actually spent many years in LA. Especially Kareem.... How long did Bosh and Lebron and whoever comes next spend in Miami? If Lebron spends the rest of his career in Miami he'll be considered more a Heat but no way he's ever more a Heat then Wade.

Be real.


Big Zo I love the conversation to many times these conversations turn to Hate I see why you defend your team I would to i just know deep down most people feel like Lebron should have tken his team to the ship and won on his own he went with a bunch of nuckle heads while he was in Cleveland just didnt give it a chance to mature there.

"Won on his own." Who has won on their own before? I've never heard of a 1 on 5 NBA game before.

cssdmark
06-29-2014, 01:08 AM
The Heat do not do anything illegal they just let the players know when their career is over they will create a job within the organization and pay them then. I want Dolan to tell Melo to take a paycut and then he will hire LaLa in cable vision position and pay her the difference, that is fair.

Big Zo
06-29-2014, 01:10 AM
Zo we got 17 I mean we cant win them all its pretty tuff to do that i mean come on. I dont care if were not winning them now the thing about it is neither are the HEAT with that team be real yall should have atleast 4. But thats neither here are there I just dont like watching boring games. As long as the Clippers lose I straight right now. And yeah Jim Buss is wack but Im a laker 4 life how long have you been a heat fan i been around before them #baby Jordan

You got 16* of them, and 5 of those were in Minneapolis. ;) And if you must know, I've been a Heat fan since '97.

bucketss
06-29-2014, 01:11 AM
"Won on his own." Who has won on their own before? I've never heard of a 1 on 5 NBA game before.

it gets way too easy sometimes lool, anyways im gonna hit the hay


peace.

raiddalake
06-29-2014, 01:12 AM
"Won on his own." Who has won on their own before? I've never heard of a 1 on 5 NBA game before.
Win with his team Add srtars through the draft the way Clevland did the way OKC did the way SPURS have the way the lakers have before you say some thing slick Magic Worthy Mican Byron Scott Kobe We draft well too

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 01:14 AM
Big Zo I love the conversation to many times these conversations turn to Hate I see why you defend your team I would to i just know deep down most people feel like Lebron should have tken his team to the ship and won on his own he went with a bunch of nuckle heads while he was in Cleveland just didnt give it a chance to mature there.

I'm not saying Cleveland WOULD have matured into a great team, but if Lebron had stayed and they did it would be 1,000 time's more admirable if they ended up winning even if it was at the end of his career. Winning with the Heat was just a w.e. empty feeling. It just seems dumb for something like that to happen in Sports where so much money and time is involved, for a superteam to form in FA. Win the right way, you finally draft someone special? You're a winner. You developed your talent into stars? Winner. Trading/signings are allowed..but creating a superteam of top 10 players in the league in FA? Weak. Now that the Heat blew it in 2 finals just makes it seem like the non-supporters win..

If you felt gratification watching them win then all the power to you. I just don't get how you can. Had Cleveland ended up winning ONE ring it would hold so much more merit, even I would have to bow down and respect that kind of greatness to watch Lebron work his team and finally get a ring. Like I did Kobe, whom I didnt really like at first, with ring 4 and 5.

Even though I didn't really like Lebron much in Cleveland, I had to respect him for putting so much forth bringing those teams to the ECF. Once he had that 'quitness' moment vs Boston, he's never been the same and can't stand him.

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 01:19 AM
Why would I give a crap about who's more Heat than who?

Because you asked is Shaq or Kareem any less Laker because they weren't drafted there??? Mabye that's why?

raiddalake
06-29-2014, 01:20 AM
Does it matter we moved hell i wasnt born back then. But i been a Laker fan since 82 the first time i remembe bball. Im not questioning your loyalty..... ok yes i am i just want to know who will be there when its over......Some Laker fans left when Shaq left they became Heat fans Some of those fans where Bulls fans so im glad to meet a loyal fan Teams have ups and downs Hell im a Raider fan but the one thing about my Lakers they dont stay down for long now my Raiders thats a different story. lol

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 01:23 AM
The Heat do not do anything illegal they just let the players know when their career is over they will create a job within the organization and pay them then. I want Dolan to tell Melo to take a paycut and then he will hire LaLa in cable vision position and pay her the difference, that is fair.

Do you realize how much Wade left on the table?

He basically donated 10$ million to the Heat organization.. **** a job after retirement, he could get that at ESPN if he wanted be real, $10 million will cover any post retirement job anyways by a mile

Saddletramp
06-29-2014, 01:35 AM
Did somebody just ask a guy with the name Big Zo, a picture of Alonzo Mourning and a join date of 2008

how long have you been a heat fan i been around before them #baby Jordan?

Wow. I guarantee raiddake was born after the Lakers won a majority of their titles.


Seriously though, why are people still butthurt over LeBron leaving Cleveland? Dan Gilbert doesn't know what he's doing and the guys he hires don't know what they're doing either. He had crappy teammates and the coach they had was fired to try to please LeBron in a last ditch effort to try to keep him instead of getting him a better coach earlier than the offseason that he could leave. And he left to play with all-star friends in freaking Miami. Everyone would have made the same decision if it were to happen to them and everyone would have accepted him with open arms if he would have joined their teams and won championships.

SILVER SEAVER
06-29-2014, 01:35 AM
I understand taking less to win is admireable to some. But aren't the league rules being bent here? Under-the-table promises for contract negotiations?

Why Wade would Opt-out of that contract without under the table promises from Riley?
Same with Haslem, for a player who probably wont get more than a 1 year vet min deal anymore to opt out of a almost $5 million guaranteed for one year seems shady

I have wondered that myself. You never know what goes on behind closed doors. If Wade takes considerably less then you may indeed be correct. Even though Wade's skills are diminishing due to injuries he feels like he is responsible for all three Heat titles. Also take into consideration that Miami has no state tax so the money goes a little further plus it's South Beach for Christ Sake.

SILVER SEAVER
06-29-2014, 01:38 AM
They will call Kobe Mr. Laker if he wins a sixth title even though we know Magic revolutionized the point guard position and resurrected the Lakers organization so Kobe can take it over and join forces with the most dominant big man in NBA history. Magic is Mr. Laker but this generation just sees what Kobe is doing present day.

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 01:44 AM
Did somebody just ask a guy with the name Big Zo, a picture of Alonzo Mourning and a join date of 2008
?

Wow. I guarantee raiddake was born after the Lakers won a majority of their titles.


Seriously though, why are people still butthurt over LeBron leaving Cleveland? Dan Gilbert doesn't know what he's doing and the guys he hires don't know what they're doing either. He had crappy teammates and the coach they had was fired to try to please LeBron in a last ditch effort to try to keep him instead of getting him a better coach earlier than the offseason that he could leave. And he left to play with all-star friends in freaking Miami. Everyone would have made the same decision if it were to happen to them and everyone would have accepted him with open arms if he would have joined their teams and won championships.

Lol this is so funny and not true. If any star came up to MJ and said "Hey I have the best idea, let's just team up. If were on the same team who can beat us It wouldn't even be fair!" he would't take it...he wanted to beat the competition not join together. Maybe for the Olympics and Space Jam but then after that it was back to business proving as to why he's the best.

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 01:51 AM
I have wondered that myself. You never know what goes on behind closed doors. If Wade takes considerably less then you may indeed be correct. Even though Wade's skills are diminishing due to injuries he feels like he is responsible for all three Heat titles. Also take into consideration that Miami has no state tax so the money goes a little further plus it's South Beach for Christ Sake.
Plus it's closest to oversea bank accounts.....just saying

unleashthebeast
06-29-2014, 01:51 AM
Lol this is so funny and not true. If any star came up to MJ and said "Hey I have the best idea, let's just team up. If were on the same team who can beat us It wouldn't even be fair!" he would't take it...he wanted to beat the competition not join together. Maybe for the Olympics and Space Jam but then after that it was back to business proving as to why he's the best.

The only correct answer to the "would MJ team up?" question is that we simply dont know. It was never a possibility for Jordan, so you and I have no idea whether or not he would have teamed up with stars outside of his own team's players to put himself in a better place to win. So I don't know why you say with such certainty that he never would do it, he never had the chance.

Saddletramp
06-29-2014, 01:55 AM
Lol this is so funny and not true. If any star came up to MJ and said "Hey I have the best idea, let's just team up. If were on the same team who can beat us It wouldn't even be fair!" he would't take it...he wanted to beat the competition not join together. Maybe for the Olympics and Space Jam but then after that it was back to business proving as to why he's the best.

If Jordan didn't have a 50 greatest player on his team and some other solid role players and Phil freaking Jackson with his system as his coach, and was in a shithole like Cleveland, he'd have jumped ship, too. But wouldacouldashoulda won't get us anywhere, just like your original question. Stop hating because guys worked around the system (legitly, for all we know). If they would have went to your favorite team, you wouldn't have a god damn problem. And I'm not even a Heat fan, I just think the hate they get is laughable.

Saddletramp
06-29-2014, 01:59 AM
Plus it's closest to oversea bank accounts.....just saying

Classic ThuglifeJ

Kashmir13579
06-29-2014, 02:03 AM
thuglife take this L right quick son. lol

SILVER SEAVER
06-29-2014, 02:04 AM
Lol this is so funny and not true. If any star came up to MJ and said "Hey I have the best idea, let's just team up. If were on the same team who can beat us It wouldn't even be fair!" he would't take it...he wanted to beat the competition not join together. Maybe for the Olympics and Space Jam but then after that it was back to business proving as to why he's the best.

Spot on. Michael wanted to beat Bird, Magic, Isiah, Ewing, Barkley, Drexler etc. He would have straight up told them to their faces to kick some rocks. That's what separates that era from this era. This era is like society in general, want it fast, want it easy. It's so much easier to bolt out of town and join a superpower. For as much as I respect LeBron's game if he goes elsewhere as a hired gun to join another team that's on a verge his legacy takes a hit. I don't really blame him for leaving Cleveland because Gilbert is a complete tool and that was as good as it was gonna get it Cleveland, a four game *** kicking in the Finals courtesy of Duncan and company. But as Riley stated, it's better to work things out and find out how to improve then go out the first open door when the going gets tough. Is LeBron even opting out or considering other options if they win? Heck no, he's going for a four peat and not opting out even if Wade was playing on one good wheel. He needs to stay with the Heat and build towards another title with Riles and if Wade doesn't want to take a cut then family or not they need to send him packing because he's becoming a shell of his former self.

raiddalake
06-29-2014, 02:05 AM
born in 78 seen 10 championships brotha

Kashmir13579
06-29-2014, 02:09 AM
Do you realize how much Wade left on the table?

He basically donated 10$ million to the Heat organization.. **** a job after retirement, he could get that at ESPN if he wanted be real, $10 million will cover any post retirement job anyways by a mile i just dont know why you're mad about it. People are always on about how all athletes are greedy and money is the bottom line. This is more altruistic on Wade's part than it is illegal.

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 02:11 AM
If Jordan didn't have a 50 greatest player on his team and some other solid role players and Phil freaking Jackson with his system as his coach, and was in a shithole like Cleveland, he'd have jumped ship, too. But wouldacouldashoulda won't get us anywhere, just like your original question. Stop hating because guys worked around the system (legitly, for all we know). If they would have went to your favorite team, you wouldn't have a god damn problem. And I'm not even a Heat fan, I just think the hate they get is laughable.

Lol so now you're making bold assumptions but I can't. I said "He wouldn't have teamed up". You say "he'd have jumped ship too" "you wouldn't have a problem if they joined your team''. Double standard?

I can promise you that if something like if Lebron-Wade came to Toronto to team with Bosh (lol) I would simply do this. Enjoy it as much as I can, but not be as gratified or fulfilled if they won a championship like that. And I never liked Lebron that much to begin with because his personality characterisitcs.
I would definitely not be as happy compared to if the team were to have work through ADVERSITY and THEN get to promiseland...however long that may take. It's like paying for your homework or someone to do your job...yeah you can try to enjoy that the best you can but you won't feel as satisfied with the end result as if you were to do it the right way and yourself .. Well maybe if the assignment sucked but you get what I'm saying.


And Jordan was a pure competitor, he proved this, to the fullest. He does this it on and off the court. Golf, gambling, w.e. The dude doesn't team up with you he wants to beat the competition. So no he wouldn't have teamed up with the opportunity there.

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 02:22 AM
i just dont know why you're mad about it. People are always on about how all athletes are greedy and money is the bottom line. This is more altruistic on Wade's part than it is illegal.

Yeah if that were true. But because Wade wouldn't do that unless he had negotiations with Riley 'under the table'. Either side money or garunteed to know what his contract will be if he opts out. Hence my point on legality.

I mean who knows maybe I'm wrong and Wade would do that but he doesn't seem like the guy to drop garunteed millions

Bostonjorge
06-29-2014, 02:23 AM
we've been saying that about okc 2 years straight now, maybe when durant grows a sack and demands the ball from westbrook they can win.

lol but it just shows ur b ball iq, let me break it down to you, miami is one of the oldest teams in the league, wade is 32 and declining heavily, and bosh is 30 and has lost explosiveness.... now you're comparing it to 25 yr old durant and a young okc team SMH ofcourse they will get better

Spurs players had fell of as well. Mills was to fat and couldn't get off the bench, Manu was done last year, diaw was thrown away by a non playoff team yet they all got better the next season. But poor Miami right. I mean if Durant had bosh and wade we would understand him not winning either. Durant has Perkins and sefolosha as starters on his team and that's more help than any team ever.

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 02:26 AM
Spurs players had fell of as well. Mills was to fat and couldn't get off the bench, Manu was done last year, diaw was thrown away by a non playoff team yet they all got better the next season. But poor Miami right. I mean if Durant had bosh and wade we would understand him not winning either. Durant has Perkins and sefolosha as starters on his team and that's more than any team ever.

HAHA. Exactly. The difference in Heat and Spurs organizations.

Spurs: Lose finals in embarassing fashion (game 6) - Work hard all offseason, develop great chemistry and teamwork and come back with a vengence. (you are right about Diaw too, thought he was a joke).

Heat: Lose finals in embarassing fashion (4-1 on blowout losses) - OHHHHHMYYYY GOODDDD WHAT DO WEE DOO WEEE NEEEED ANOTHER STARRRRRRRRR

bucketss
06-29-2014, 02:36 AM
Lol so now you're making bold assumptions but I can't. I said "He wouldn't have teamed up". You say "he'd have jumped ship too" "you wouldn't have a problem if they joined your team''. Double standard?

I can promise you that if something like if Lebron-Wade came to Toronto to team with Bosh (lol) I would simply do this. Enjoy it as much as I can, but not be as gratified or fulfilled if they won a championship like that. And I never liked Lebron that much to begin with because his personality characterisitcs.
I would definitely not be as happy compared to if the team were to have work through ADVERSITY and THEN get to promiseland...however long that may take. It's like paying for your homework or someone to do your job...yeah you can try to enjoy that the best you can but you won't feel as satisfied with the end result as if you were to do it the right way and yourself .. Well maybe if the assignment sucked but you get what I'm saying.


And Jordan was a pure competitor, he proved this, to the fullest. He does this it on and off the court. Golf, gambling, w.e. The dude doesn't team up with you he wants to beat the competition. So no he wouldn't have teamed up with the opportunity there.

u met him? LMAO so petty. tell the truth you hate him because you're scared hes creeping up on your childhood hero.

bucketss
06-29-2014, 02:37 AM
HAHA. Exactly. The difference in Heat and Spurs organizations.

Spurs: Lose finals in embarassing fashion (game 6) - Work hard all offseason, develop great chemistry and teamwork and come back with a vengence. (you are right about Diaw too, thought he was a joke).

Heat: Lose finals in embarassing fashion (4-1 on blowout losses) - OHHHHHMYYYY GOODDDD WHAT DO WEE DOO WEEE NEEEED ANOTHER STARRRRRRRRR

the heat never said any of this tho LOL

MickeyMgl
06-29-2014, 02:38 AM
It's not illegal but I'm sure it's frowned upon by the players union.

If I understand the CBA correctly, the Players Union gets roughly the same amount of money no matter how much the best players take. It'll be about 50% of all revenue, give or take.

bucketss
06-29-2014, 02:39 AM
Spurs players had fell of as well. Mills was to fat and couldn't get off the bench, Manu was done last year, diaw was thrown away by a non playoff team yet they all got better the next season. But poor Miami right. I mean if Durant had bosh and wade we would understand him not winning either. Durant has Perkins and sefolosha as starters on his team and that's more help than any team ever.

he also has westbrook and ibaka, who are both better wade/bosh, well you can argue with ibaka/bosh but westbrooks is worlds better than wade.

MickeyMgl
06-29-2014, 02:40 AM
What?

I am tired of people trying to change the rules every time the HEAT try to make moves.


Have you always been saying this (like starting 10yrs ago)?

The loophole hadn't been discovered yet.

Kashmir13579
06-29-2014, 03:12 AM
Yeah if that were true. But because Wade wouldn't do that unless he had negotiations with Riley 'under the table'. Either side money or garunteed to know what his contract will be if he opts out. Hence my point on legality.

I mean who knows maybe I'm wrong and Wade would do that but he doesn't seem like the guy to drop garunteed millions I want to believe winning is the bottom line for Lebron and Wade. We needn't worry ourselves about under the table isht.

Saddletramp
06-29-2014, 03:22 AM
Lol so now you're making bold assumptions but I can't. I said "He wouldn't have teamed up". You say "he'd have jumped ship too" "you wouldn't have a problem if they joined your team''. Double standard?


he'd have jumped ship, too. But wouldacouldashoulda won't get us anywhere, just like your original question.
You forgot I said that bolded part.

And it looks like I was right, you wouldn't have a problem if they joined your team:


I can promise you that if something like if Lebron-Wade came to Toronto to team with Bosh (lol) I would simply do this. Enjoy it as much as I can, but not be as gratified or fulfilled if they won a championship like that.

Lol, dude.

PartyPoison15
06-29-2014, 03:26 AM
Colluding isn't illegal.

Dumb, yes.

But not illegal.

slashsnake
06-29-2014, 03:28 AM
Yeah if that were true. But because Wade wouldn't do that unless he had negotiations with Riley 'under the table'. Either side money or garunteed to know what his contract will be if he opts out. Hence my point on legality.

I mean who knows maybe I'm wrong and Wade would do that but he doesn't seem like the guy to drop garunteed millions

I am sure they had talks about what he'd be worth to them before he opted out. It isn't collusion if you are talking a future contract with your own player who is under contract. This happens all the time.

As for side money.. I'd want to see proof before jumping in there. Duncan went from the 3rd highest player in the NBA to the 4th highest on his own team in a deal. That one would smell a lot worse than anything Wade took (unless he took 6-7 mil). Especially considering Wade makes more off the court.

Saddletramp
06-29-2014, 03:43 AM
^Uh-Oh. Derozan an up there is quick to call up the mods. Be careful.

slashsnake
06-29-2014, 03:43 AM
HAHA. Exactly. The difference in Heat and Spurs organizations.

Spurs: Lose finals in embarassing fashion (game 6) - Work hard all offseason, develop great chemistry and teamwork and come back with a vengence. (you are right about Diaw too, thought he was a joke).

Heat: Lose finals in embarassing fashion (4-1 on blowout losses) - OHHHHHMYYYY GOODDDD WHAT DO WEE DOO WEEE NEEEED ANOTHER STARRRRRRRRR

I don't know if they need that but it is clear that Wade is no longer the guy he once was, and Bosh isn't either. They've got the oldest team in the NBA around Lebron. They need younger talent, which the Spurs said a few years back as well. Battier after this loss isn't going to come back an improved player next year. Nor is Birdman, Haslem, Lewis, Allen, Jones... Quite a different situation than the spurs who had Green, Bellinelli, Splitter, Mills, and Leonard.

Kind of common sense. lose the finals with good young players on your roster, things are looking up. Go for it with an aged group and aren't able to win it, might want to think about retooling that roster. Maybe going after guys like Richard Jefferson and Stephen Jackson to pair with your lineup isn't the right move, but instead get younger there, and not pay your stars max dollar...

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 03:53 AM
So what? How effin spoiled is that? Going gets semi sort of barely tough at all and you don't try to work through it?

Don't try again just look for a way to make it easy again?

5ass
06-29-2014, 03:59 AM
:pity:

Saddletramp
06-29-2014, 04:07 AM
So what? How effin spoiled is that? Going gets semi sort of barely tough at all and you don't try to work through it?

Don't try again just look for a way to make it easy again?

At the end of the day it's all about winning. They didn't get it done with that roster so they're re-tooling. Every contending team will try to make offseason moves to make their club better. The Heat couldn't make their team better without the $20 million guys spreading their money out to other better players and did so legitimately via opting out and renegotiating a new contract. HOW IS THIS A HARD CONCEPT TO UNDER****INGSTAND?

koreancabbage
06-29-2014, 09:14 AM
At the end of the day it's all about winning. They didn't get it done with that roster so they're re-tooling. Every contending team will try to make offseason moves to make their club better. The Heat couldn't make their team better without the $20 million guys spreading their money out to other better players and did so legitimately via opting out and renegotiating a new contract. HOW IS THIS A HARD CONCEPT TO UNDER****INGSTAND?

He's a Vince carter fan, he knows little about winning. Hahaha jk jk

ATX
06-29-2014, 10:44 AM
So what? How effin spoiled is that? Going gets semi sort of barely tough at all and you don't try to work through it?

Don't try again just look for a way to make it easy again?

Wait the Heat are trying to get better and upgrade the oldest roster in the NBA? That's F'ing CRAZY! I mean how dare they try and retool the roster! It must be ILLEGAL, right?! Can someone please call the baby police, because it just ain't right man, just ain't fair! Those players are spoiled! Whaa! Whaa! Mommy, Mommy can you pwetty pwease do something about this?! It's not fair! Where's my bwanky?!! Come on man...I mean for the love of God.

mightybosstone
06-29-2014, 10:51 AM
So what? How effin spoiled is that? Going gets semi sort of barely tough at all and you don't try to work through it?

Don't try again just look for a way to make it easy again?

I don't understand your criticism whatsoever. Look at this Heat team and how badly they just got beat in the Finals. Their roster was about to get gutted in free agency with Norris Cole and Udonis Haslem the only role players left on the roster, and poor ones at that. If they DIDN'T do something, that team was completely ****ed. They would have been over the cap with five players.

Instead, the took a look at themselves and made a smart call. Wade and Bosh are not worth this kind of money based on the production they're providing in the playoffs. And they could keep the $40 million over the next two years and wait to get their next contract two years from now, but they'd essentially be wasting the two most productive remaining years of their career to play for a team that already peaked and wasn't likely to win another title as currently constructed.

I don't understand why other teams and players get praised for taking less money to help their franchise build a contender, but when the Heat do it, they're complete cowards. Someone will have to explain that double standard to me, because I've just got too much common sense to understand that flawed logic.

infernoscurse
06-29-2014, 11:13 AM
basketball needs to step in, these selfish bastards are ruining the sport to those who have big talent and want to get paid the premium

ATX
06-29-2014, 11:19 AM
basketball needs to step in, these selfish bastards are ruining the sport to those who have big talent and want to get paid the premium

Says a Yankee fan :rolleyes:

hugepatsfan
06-29-2014, 11:52 AM
basketball needs to step in, these selfish bastards are ruining the sport to those who have big talent and want to get paid the premium

That's not the point. The NBA is a sport where one player means infinitely more than one player does in any other sport. With rare exception, you simply can't win without a superstar player. (DET did it once and SA has consistently competed without a top 10 player since Duncan declined to below that level - though Parker is borderline that level at times.) If the superstars take less money so they can play with each other now you reduce the number of teams that have that player they need to compete. And now the league has caught on that if you don't have that player to build around you should tank and try to get a high pick so you can maybe get him. Half of the fan bases in the league right now want their team to be bad next year so they can maybe draft the next superstar. It just makes for awful basketball.

If the stars were "selfish" and taking max dollar they wouldn't be able to team up together. That means more teams would have a superstar they felt comfortable building around. There wouldn't be so much tanking. The playoffs would be better because lower seeds wouldn't be as completely outmatched (not as much a problem in the West but in the East). Players taking less money to win is a noble thing in and of itself but when it becomes a league wide trend like it has I think it ends up hurting the NBA as a whole.

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 01:09 PM
So what? How effin spoiled is that? Going gets semi sort of barely tough at all and you don't try to work through it?

Don't try again just look for a way to make it easy again?

I don't understand your criticism whatsoever. Look at this Heat team and how badly they just got beat in the Finals. Their roster was about to get gutted in free agency with Norris Cole and Udonis Haslem the only role players left on the roster, and poor ones at that. If they DIDN'T do something, that team was completely ****ed. They would have been over the cap with five players.

Instead, the took a look at themselves and made a smart call. Wade and Bosh are not worth this kind of money based on the production they're providing in the playoffs. And they could keep the $40 million over the next two years and wait to get their next contract two years from now, but they'd essentially be wasting the two most productive remaining years of their career to play for a team that already peaked and wasn't likely to win another title as currently constructed.

I don't understand why other teams and players get praised for taking less money to help their franchise build a contender, but when the Heat do it, they're complete cowards. Someone will have to explain that double standard to me, because I've just got too much common sense to understand that flawed logic.

I understand we've garnered this mindset but I'm picturing a team like SA, or other past teams who were contenders..I mean yeah they got brutally beat down in the finals but like you all say they DID win 2 before that. One lost championship and all confidence shattered? I just think maybe give it another go. The team isn't that different from 2012 or 13.. But I guess if they come back with the same core its giving it another go. Just most teams I think if would train in the off season maybe pick up/swap a role play and correct your flaws from the finals loss..give it another go..adding another star can seem like the key but also drastically shake things up. good or bad. That's thinking melo.

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 01:11 PM
At the end of the day it's all about winning. They didn't get it done with that roster so they're re-tooling. Every contending team will try to make offseason moves to make their club better. The Heat couldn't make their team better without the $20 million guys spreading their money out to other better players and did so legitimately via opting out and renegotiating a new contract. HOW IS THIS A HARD CONCEPT TO UNDER****INGSTAND?

He's a Vince carter fan, he knows little about winning. Hahaha jk jk

Raptors, Nets. 11 years. Give me a break man.

WSU Tony
06-29-2014, 01:22 PM
The same people on here who still hate Lebron for his Cleveland to Miami move are now endorsing the "take less" to win mentality. You guys understand this is the same principal, right? Lebron taking the easy way out is the exact same thing as AK opting out of an 11 million dollar contract with the Wolves to take a 4 million dollar contract with the Nets. If the league isn't run in a purely capitalist way, the team spending caps mean absolutely nothing.

This is why teams will spend almost everything to get 2-3 stars on a team. They know the vets who normally should be paid 10+ million will take 3-4 million to play on their team. If we did a fair market analysis of the "value" (in FA) of some of these teams it would be 2X the team caps.

You all hate Lebron for doing it but the smaller guys get a pass?

Jamiecballer
06-29-2014, 01:33 PM
What?

I am tired of people trying to change the rules every time the HEAT try to make moves.


Have you always been saying this (like starting 10yrs ago)?
It has nothing to do with the Heat because I am a fan.

I like the idea of players being able to opt out so that players aren't stuck in situations where they are unhappy or blocked from being able to make a bigger contribution.

But opting out so that you can sign longer deals at less $ per year seems less like unselfishness and more like blatant manipulation of the salary cap by the team.

Saddletramp
06-29-2014, 04:39 PM
^Why? It's a safety net for the players that have earned it if they feel like bailing or signing a new deal to extend their time there. And in this case they are trying to help their team sign some new guys and get better. If the Celtics would've done this a few years ago it would've been ok. If Durant and Westbrook do this it will be ok. If those jerks in Miami do it then it's a big deal apparently.

Too much whining around here.

koreancabbage
06-29-2014, 04:42 PM
Raptors, Nets. 11 years. Give me a break man.

hahahah i love Vince Carter still, don't worry, I know how you feel =P

Jamiecballer
06-29-2014, 06:22 PM
^Why? It's a safety net for the players that have earned it if they feel like bailing or signing a new deal to extend their time there. And in this case they are trying to help their team sign some new guys and get better. If the Celtics would've done this a few years ago it would've been ok. If Durant and Westbrook do this it will be ok. If those jerks in Miami do it then it's a big deal apparently.

Too much whining around here.
Well I explained why.

LOOTERX9
06-29-2014, 06:53 PM
Not illegal but they are all *****es still

yeah i agree with this. these 3 guys are not your classic man-ly men here thats for sure. These guys are weak minded

d00d
06-29-2014, 06:58 PM
you can't tell me these 2 aren't gay http://slamonline.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/dwyane_wade_lebron_james.jpg

ThuglifeJ
06-29-2014, 07:03 PM
Not illegal but they are all *****es still

yeah i agree with this. these 3 guys are not your classic man-ly men here thats for sure. These guys are weak minded

Yezzir. Not hard to see that

bucketss
06-29-2014, 07:23 PM
you can't tell me these 2 aren't gay http://slamonline.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/dwyane_wade_lebron_james.jpg

they maybe you got a problem with that? although i have no clue how you came to that conclusion looking at that pic.


maybe someone is insecure about their sexuality :whistle:

hugepatsfan
06-29-2014, 07:39 PM
It has nothing to do with the Heat because I am a fan.

I like the idea of players being able to opt out so that players aren't stuck in situations where they are unhappy or blocked from being able to make a bigger contribution.

But opting out so that you can sign longer deals at less $ per year seems less like unselfishness and more like blatant manipulation of the salary cap by the team.

Sometime it's in the best interest of a player to opt out and miss out on the big immediate payday for a guaranteed cash flow of multiple years at a slightly less AAV. Let's say you have a 30 year old player with a $12 million player option. At age 30, he's probably in decline but let's say he's coming off a pretty strong season. Let's say the team is willing to pay him 3 years, $30 million if he opts out. That's a pay cut from $12 million but he has more long term security. If he opts in for that $12 mil then he'd be a 31 year old coming off a bad year. He wouldn't get 3 years at $10 million per. He'd probably get closer to MLE type money as an AAV and teams would be wary of giving him more years. By opting out, he's eliminating that risk for himself even though technically he's taking less. He's hedging his bet.

bleedprple&gold
06-29-2014, 07:47 PM
What?

I am tired of people trying to change the rules every time the HEAT try to make moves.


Have you always been saying this (like starting 10yrs ago)?
It has nothing to do with the Heat because I am a fan.

I like the idea of players being able to opt out so that players aren't stuck in situations where they are unhappy or blocked from being able to make a bigger contribution.

But opting out so that you can sign longer deals at less $ per year seems less like unselfishness and more like blatant manipulation of the salary cap by the team.

Call it what you want, its completely within the rules of the CBA. And how do you propose its fixed? Get rid of player options? Disallow players if they opt out from re-signing with the same team. Neither is a better solution.

Jamiecballer
06-29-2014, 08:41 PM
Sometime it's in the best interest of a player to opt out and miss out on the big immediate payday for a guaranteed cash flow of multiple years at a slightly less AAV. Let's say you have a 30 year old player with a $12 million player option. At age 30, he's probably in decline but let's say he's coming off a pretty strong season. Let's say the team is willing to pay him 3 years, $30 million if he opts out. That's a pay cut from $12 million but he has more long term security. If he opts in for that $12 mil then he'd be a 31 year old coming off a bad year. He wouldn't get 3 years at $10 million per. He'd probably get closer to MLE type money as an AAV and teams would be wary of giving him more years. By opting out, he's eliminating that risk for himself even though technically he's taking less. He's hedging his bet.
I understand and have zero issue with that scenario. What I find leaves a bad taste in my mouth is when an entire team does it clearly as a means to add talent and delay their payday. Then it seems less like its about taking care of themselves and more like being bullied by the organization to go along, OR an attempt to add more high end talent to a team that is already stacked rather than realigning or fixing a real issue of team building that has become quite evident there.

Jamiecballer
06-29-2014, 08:43 PM
Call it what you want, its completely within the rules of the CBA. And how do you propose its fixed? Get rid of player options? Disallow players if they opt out from re-signing with the same team. Neither is a better solution.
Personally I think both are better solutions but to each his own. Less angst for fans that their players are going to cut and run and both sides would have to think long and hard about where they wanted to be before committing to each other.

Having said that, nowhere did I suggest it was against the rules

Arch Stanton
06-29-2014, 09:10 PM
It's not illegal but I'd be watching like a hawk for off-the-book deals. Will Wade become the highest paid Miami executive when he retires? Probably so... Same with Haslem.

slashsnake
06-29-2014, 09:28 PM
I understand and have zero issue with that scenario. What I find leaves a bad taste in my mouth is when an entire team does it clearly as a means to add talent and delay their payday. Then it seems less like its about taking care of themselves and more like being bullied by the organization to go along, OR an attempt to add more high end talent to a team that is already stacked rather than realigning or fixing a real issue of team building that has become quite evident there.

Ehhh players not worth max deals bully organizations into signing them to max deals in the hope of having 1 star as well. If you call that bullying it works both ways. How many times have we seen a player under contract force a trade? And this happens all over the league. Dirk is taking less than he's worth to make the team better. Phil's asking Melo to opt out and take less. Howard and Igoudala left money on the table to win.

And they still have the option. Dwyane could have taken his 40 mil if he wanted to, sure there was pressure to take less. That was on the spurs big three as well, and now those three make combined what Kobe does in a year. Were they also bullied into that deal? Because of that, the spurs were able to fix the real issues of team building that had become evident there as well, that their big three needed more help and in order to get that help, they'd have to take less. How was that not "an attempt to add more high end talent to a team that is already stacked"?

Saddletramp
06-29-2014, 09:34 PM
I understand and have zero issue with that scenario. What I find leaves a bad taste in my mouth is when an entire team does it clearly as a means to add talent and delay their payday. Then it seems less like its about taking care of themselves and more like being bullied by the organization to go along, OR an attempt to add more high end talent to a team that is already stacked rather than realigning or fixing a real issue of team building that has become quite evident there.

Lol, dude. That's exactly what they're doing. Are they just supposed to wait and draft players in the high 20's and second round and give them a few years to develop? They're taking a pay cut to add better role players and maybe even another star like Carmelo or Kyle Lowry because they want to win now. They know Wade is close to being done and Bosh is a good role player on a good team where he was an allstar on his own team. Their window for the Big Three and small time role players is over. At least give them credit for realizing it and laugh because they failed to bring in every title by themselves.


I don't think I'm going to keep track of this thread anymore. It's like talking to republicans; things like facts and common sense don't matter when it could change one's mind. You guys hate LeBron and how the Heat assembled their team so nothing else matters even if other teams and players have done the same thing.

Saddletramp
06-29-2014, 09:40 PM
Ehhh players not worth max deals bully organizations into signing them to max deals in the hope of having 1 star as well. If you call that bullying it works both ways. How many times have we seen a player under contract force a trade? And this happens all over the league. Dirk is taking less than he's worth to make the team better. Phil's asking Melo to opt out and take less. Howard and Igoudala left money on the table to win.

And they still have the option. Dwyane could have taken his 40 mil if he wanted to, sure there was pressure to take less. That was on the spurs big three as well, and now those three make combined what Kobe does in a year. Were they also bullied into that deal? Because of that, the spurs were able to fix the real issues of team building that had become evident there as well, that their big three needed more help and in order to get that help, they'd have to take less. How was that not "an attempt to add more high end talent to a team that is already stacked"?

Yup. Well ssid. And didn't Richard Jefferson opt out a few years ago and sign a longer contract to help the Spurs with some flexibility? Did anyone call shenanigans then?

Jamiecballer
06-29-2014, 10:14 PM
Lol, dude. That's exactly what they're doing. Are they just supposed to wait and draft players in the high 20's and second round and give them a few years to develop? They're taking a pay cut to add better role players and maybe even another star like Carmelo or Kyle Lowry because they want to win now. They know Wade is close to being done and Bosh is a good role player on a good team where he was an allstar on his own team. Their window for the Big Three and small time role players is over. At least give them credit for realizing it and laugh because they failed to bring in every title by themselves.


I don't think I'm going to keep track of this thread anymore. It's like talking to republicans; things like facts and common sense don't matter when it could change one's mind. You guys hate LeBron and how the Heat assembled their team so nothing else matters even if other teams and players have done the same thing.
I like the heat so you are barking up the wrong tree there. But what you described is not realigning or fixing anything. It's "we couldn't win even though we have the most talent in the league, but rather than address the fact that we are poorly utilizing the talent we do have, let's just go grab more and hope to overwhelm everybody".

Its the opposite of let's get better because it involves not looking in the mirror at what's really going on.

therealwd27
06-29-2014, 10:21 PM
I like the heat so you are barking up the wrong tree there. But what you described is not realigning or fixing anything. It's "we couldn't win even though we have the most talent in the league, but rather than address the fact that we are poorly utilizing the talent we do have, let's just go grab more and hope to overwhelm everybody".

Its the opposite of let's get better because it involves not looking in the mirror at what's really going on.

I'm not sure what your argument is. They clearly need more depth because they are lacking, and I'd trust an NBA coach a little more than you to decide on who plays and how long they play. They ran out of gas and needed more production from the bench and role players, they realized that and are making sure next season they are more equipped to make a deeper run. Theyve played like an extra season this past 4 years because of playoff minutes so them wanting fresh bodies is a bad thing? You don't make any sense and I can't tell if you are a troll but they are addressing the problem the best way THEY see fit, who the hell cares what we, you or anyone outside of the Heat think.