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View Full Version : Dwyane Wade opts out



Procision
06-28-2014, 03:36 PM
482969735777505280


As expected

DillyDill
06-28-2014, 03:38 PM
Melo for sure now that was huuugggeee

Saddletramp
06-28-2014, 03:38 PM
They're all staying. Darn.

Mr.Nate30
06-28-2014, 03:38 PM
Lol can't even spell name right when it's in the tweet

Mr. Baller
06-28-2014, 03:39 PM
Believe in the godfather

Procision
06-28-2014, 03:46 PM
LMAO can a mod please fix Dwyane spelling. Not sure what i was thinking

Big Zo
06-28-2014, 03:46 PM
D-Wade wasn't gonna **** his team, and his fans over. Well done.

Big Zo
06-28-2014, 03:47 PM
LMAO can a mod please fix Dwayne spelling. Not sure what i was thinking

You spelled it wrong again! Lol. D-W-Y-A-N-E

Procision
06-28-2014, 03:48 PM
You spelled it wrong again! Lol. D-W-Y-A-N-E

lmao, safe to say I have 0 clue how to spell dwyane

Big Zo
06-28-2014, 03:55 PM
lmao, safe to say I have 0 clue how to spell dwyane

Very unorthodox way of spelling it, I know. Lol

InRoseWeTrust
06-28-2014, 03:57 PM
Should pretty much lock up LeBron returning to Miami, imo.

MrfadeawayJB
06-28-2014, 03:58 PM
Wade needs to take a serious pay cut. He is worth no more than $10 million

KobeOwnSU
06-28-2014, 03:58 PM
Be ecstatic Heat fans. this means they are all working together...It will be interesting to see who they bring in and how much of a pay cut Bosh and Wade will take.

KobeOwnSU
06-28-2014, 04:00 PM
What do you guys think? Wade re-ups for 3 years 30 million? Bosh 3 years 42 million?

raiderfaninTX
06-28-2014, 04:00 PM
Well it should be pretty obvious Lebron stays now,

InRoseWeTrust
06-28-2014, 04:01 PM
What do you guys think? Wade re-ups for 3 years 30 million? Bosh 3 years 42 million?

I've always thought 3/30 is right around what it will come in at for Wade.

GiantsSwaGG
06-28-2014, 04:03 PM
Yaay, another thing goes right for the Heat

beasted86
06-28-2014, 04:10 PM
Funny hearing what fans think a player who they were so sure wasn't opting out is worth to a team that went to the Finals four years in a row.

beasted86
06-28-2014, 04:14 PM
Let the Godfather preach on this... You guys just sit back and watch history being made.

D Blue987
06-28-2014, 04:18 PM
I am going to laugh if LeBron decides to bail on Miami in the end after Bosh and Wade resign for less money. Haha.

abe_froman
06-28-2014, 04:22 PM
it is weird how every other team in the league cant get players to take less ,they have to be paid at or above market value to go there

Crackadalic
06-28-2014, 04:24 PM
3/30 seems about right for wade when including the amount of games he plays per season and age.

therealwd27
06-28-2014, 04:27 PM
And it begins let's go

Big Zo
06-28-2014, 04:33 PM
it is weird how every other team in the league cant get players to take less ,they have to be paid at or above market value to go there

As Don Johnson used to say: "This is Miami, pal!"

FYL_McVeezy
06-28-2014, 04:34 PM
LBJ, Wade, Bosh and Haslem are now FA's


The grand plan is almost complete...The Big 3 reloaded next season...

Fully expect them to add either Lowry or Gortat, maybe both, along with a key addition to the bench. That + Napier is enough to run away with the East for the 5 year in a row.

ChitownSports16
06-28-2014, 04:34 PM
Funny hearing what fans think a player who they were so sure wasn't opting out is worth to a team that went to the Finals four years in a row.

Umm cool?

ChitownSports16
06-28-2014, 04:36 PM
Let the Godfather preach on this... You guys just sit back and watch history being made.

Didn't ya say that 4 years ago?

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-28-2014, 04:40 PM
it is weird how every other team in the league cant get players to take less ,they have to be paid at or above market value to go there


As Don Johnson used to say: "This is Miami, pal!"
I think it's more likely a wink wink Swiss bank account back door payment.

Jerry West spoke at Jerry Buss' s eulogy and said he had worked and knows about a lot of crooked owners but Jerry was the only clean one. I think he was talking about this type of thing.

How easy is it to tell a player take a pay cut to help us with the cap, and we'll funnel the remainder to you in back channels? That's what I would do I if was an owner

PraiseJesus
06-28-2014, 04:42 PM
well thats another 4 years of finals for heat

PraiseJesus
06-28-2014, 04:46 PM
stay tuned for the NO SUPER TEAM clause in the next CBA

hahahah the NBA is a complete joke and all the small market owners deserve this!

C-Wick925
06-28-2014, 04:50 PM
You spelled it wrong again! Lol. D-W-Y-A-N-E

Actually his mother spelled it wrong, Everyone else spells it correct.

sturm
06-28-2014, 04:53 PM
hahah :laugh:

beasted86
06-28-2014, 04:55 PM
I think it's more likely a wink wink Swiss bank account back door payment.

Jerry West spoke at Jerry Buss' s eulogy and said he had worked and knows about a lot of crooked owners but Jerry was the only clean one. I think he was talking about this type of thing.

How easy is it to tell a player take a pay cut to help us with the cap, and we'll funnel the remainder to you in back channels? That's what I would do I if was an owner

Too many palms to grease in today's world. Too many electronic records and data to erase. That's not how things are done anymore. You can get away with things one on one like maybe AK47 and Prohkov but not a group of people. Too many people looking to make a quick 15 minutes of TMZ fame and write a book snitching now. When billionaires like Martha Stewart are finding a way to end up in jail is hard to hide and get away with anything now when there are this many financial and electronic data and recordings.

therealwd27
06-28-2014, 04:57 PM
A great day for the Heat

Burkey3472
06-28-2014, 04:57 PM
This gives them an opportunity to go out and get a big man and PG to help out.

Big Zo
06-28-2014, 04:57 PM
Actually his mother spelled it wrong, Everyone else spells it correct.

Actually his grandmother spelled it wrong, cuz it's also his father's name.

Yumboldt
06-28-2014, 04:57 PM
stay tuned for the NO SUPER TEAM clause in the next CBA

hahahah the NBA is a complete joke and all the small market owners deserve this!

Miami is a small market team

beasted86
06-28-2014, 04:58 PM
Didn't ya say that 4 years ago?

Exactly, this is like the Godfather 3. Y'all thought there wouldn't be a sequel to the sequel, thought the story was already finished.

C-Wick925
06-28-2014, 05:00 PM
Actually his grandmother spelled it wrong, cuz it's also his father's name.

Dear god excuse me for not knowing who first spelled it wrong!!!

KobeOwnSU
06-28-2014, 05:02 PM
They still cant out coach Pop.

goingfor28
06-28-2014, 05:02 PM
Actually his mother spelled it wrong, Everyone else spells it correct.
This

ChitownSports16
06-28-2014, 05:03 PM
Exactly, this is like the Godfather 3. Y'all thought there wouldn't be a sequel to the sequel, thought the story was already finished.

No, what everyone thought was that the Heat shoulda had 4 ships by now but failed. Therefore, no history was made kid.

FYL_McVeezy
06-28-2014, 05:03 PM
I think it's more likely a wink wink Swiss bank account back door payment.

Jerry West spoke at Jerry Buss' s eulogy and said he had worked and knows about a lot of crooked owners but Jerry was the only clean one. I think he was talking about this type of thing.

How easy is it to tell a player take a pay cut to help us with the cap, and we'll funnel the remainder to you in back channels? That's what I would do I if was an owner

I'm about 92% sure Proky did it for AK47...

Big Zo
06-28-2014, 05:05 PM
Dear god excuse me for not knowing who first spelled it wrong!!!

50 hail marys, and all will be forgiven,

Mr.B
06-28-2014, 05:05 PM
it is weird how every other team in the league cant get players to take less ,they have to be paid at or above market value to go there
Duncan did it two years ago when he resigned for $10 mil a year. Dirk is also expected to take a huge pay cut this off season and sign for about $10 mil. What Miami is doing this off season is nothing new.

beasted86
06-28-2014, 05:09 PM
Duncan did it two years ago when he resigned for $10 mil a year. Dirk is also expected to take a huge pay cut this off season and sign for about $10 mil. What Miami is doing this off season is nothing new.
Um, I'd say it's kind of new. I don't remember the last time 5 guys on the same team had guaranteed money and all opted out to most likely take less in the first year than they were guaranteed.

kozelkid
06-28-2014, 05:09 PM
Didn't ya say that 4 years ago?

Exactly, this is like the Godfather 3. Y'all thought there wouldn't be a sequel to the sequel, thought the story was already finished.

Have you seen godfather 3, because that'll mean that it'll be a disaster...

Mr.B
06-28-2014, 05:10 PM
Um, I'd say it's kind of new. I don't remember the last time 5 guys on the same team had guaranteed money and all opted out to most likely take less in the first year than they were guaranteed.
The amount of guys doing it is new but not taking less money to help your team.

beasted86
06-28-2014, 05:13 PM
No, what everyone thought was that the Heat shoulda had 4 ships by now but failed. Therefore, no history was made kid.
Well they have 3, and I'm not disappointed, I can't speak for anyone else. 4 Finals in a row, two titles and more possibly to come sounds great to me as a fan. I don't know of fans of another team that could have a more optimistic view than us.

beasted86
06-28-2014, 05:17 PM
The amount of guys doing it is new but not taking less money to help your team.

Still it goes just a bit further. What we've seen all through history is one teammate more often than not pushing others out, or the owner/GM accepting a core couldn't work and refusing to sign/extend one player or another.

Just going off the last couple multiple repeat champs, that's pretty much exactly how both the Shaq/Kobe and Jordan Bulls ended.

FlashBolt
06-28-2014, 05:19 PM
I have to say, this is great news for Miami and everything that I expected. The thing with these Miami Heat players, they were never going to opt out and leave. James was never going to leave Miami. I expected Wade/Bosh to opt out because they know what is on the line in Miami. This organization is truly professional from top to bottom. I would say they are a top 5 organization if you ask me.

Now, I don't know how much they will each opt for but I would suspect that James/Wade/Bosh will take in about $45-50 million total. Barely enough for another star but they won't have enough for a solid cast around them. I think if Wade/Bosh takes $12 million each and James takes $15 million, they would have about $20 million to work with after Haslem and Cole as well. That is well enough to get Melo. Miami should give up on Gortat imo. He's 30 years old and if they sign him into a long term contract, they might regret it. Give up on Lowry as well. Napier/Cole is sufficient enough at the PG spot. I have a feeling Napier will be much better than Chalmers because he doesn't force plays. All Miami needs to do is rebuff their bench. Marion, Livingston, Ariza, Allen, Jermaine Oneal, Chris Andersen, Meeks?

beasted86
06-28-2014, 05:21 PM
I have to say, this is great news for Miami and everything that I expected. The thing with these Miami Heat players, they were never going to opt out and leave. James was never going to leave Miami. I expected Wade/Bosh to opt out because they know what is on the line in Miami. This organization is truly professional from top to bottom. I would say they are a top 5 organization if you ask me.

Now, I don't know how much they will each opt for but I would suspect that James/Wade/Bosh will take in about $45-50 million total. Barely enough for another star but they won't have enough for a solid cast around them. I think if Wade/Bosh takes $12 million each and James takes $15 million, they would have about $20 million to work with after Haslem and Cole as well. That is well enough to get Melo. Miami should give up on Gortat imo. He's 30 years old and if they sign him into a long term contract, they might regret it. Give up on Lowry as well. Napier/Cole is sufficient enough at the PG spot. I have a feeling Napier will be much better than Chalmers because he doesn't force plays. All Miami needs to do is rebuff their bench. Marion, Livingston, Ariza, Allen, Jermaine Oneal, Chris Andersen, Meeks?

No offense, but that sounds like a ****ty plan to me.

Bruno
06-28-2014, 05:22 PM
smart.

Miami keeps the Bird rights even after a player opt out?

shep33
06-28-2014, 05:22 PM
Good stuff by Wade. They're going to have a huge problem long term if he takes a 5 year deal in the 75 mill range.

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 05:37 PM
Lebron needs more help :laugh2:

Love this tho..Heat will get someone like Melo or Lowry/Gortat, everyone super excited because the super team is now super super team and everyone will suck their Ds on the cake walk to the East Finalsa and then an expected championship again.

But then they run into a West team...who knows how to play together and you start to see their flaws and inability to handle the pressure.

ahh 2014 NBA Finals :) ... Good times.

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-28-2014, 05:42 PM
smart.

Miami keeps the Bird rights even after a player opt out?

No. Bird rights are used to go over the cap with your own players. So by your theory, Miami who had about $55 million in cap space could sign Melo, Lowry, Deng, Bledsoe, and then use Bird rights on LeBron's, Bosh and Wade to go into the $110 million dollar strata. that's not how it works. They are way under the cap now. They can sign guys up to about 63 million dollars. Once they reach that they can only sign guys for the veteran minimum contract up about a million dollars.

FlashBolt
06-28-2014, 05:48 PM
Lebron needs more help :laugh2:

Love this tho..Heat will get someone like Melo or Lowry/Gortat, everyone super excited because the super team is now super super team and everyone will suck their Ds on the cake walk to the East Finalsa and then an expected championship again.

But then they run into a West team...who knows how to play together and you start to see their flaws and inability to handle the pressure.

ahh 2014 NBA Finals :) ... Good times.

The reason they lost the 2014 NBA finals was because Miami didn't have enough to beat Spurs. So you basically contradicted yourself by saying James needs more help but then saying how they won't win anyways. Makes sense.

Dade County
06-28-2014, 05:49 PM
Lebron needs more help :laugh2:

Love this tho..Heat will get someone like Melo or Lowry/Gortat, everyone super excited because the super team is now super super team and everyone will suck their Ds on the cake walk to the East Finalsa and then an expected championship again.

But then they run into a West team...who knows how to play together and you start to see their flaws and inability to handle the pressure.

ahh 2014 NBA Finals :) ... Good times.

Thats the Nba job, is to keep their fans/viewers interested into their television drama series. You may even be able to see sneak previews before the show picks back up.

Enjoy.

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 05:52 PM
The reason they lost the 2014 NBA finals was because Miami didn't have enough to beat Spurs. So you basically contradicted yourself by saying James needs more help but then saying how they won't win anyways. Makes sense.

Hah no they didn't know how to beat the Spurs because the Spurs played better team basketball. Miami didn't have that type of connection or chemistry between players to trust eachother or move the ball well or make good passes. You can't honestly tell me the Heat didn't 'have enough'. That's a funny excuse and I love it.

and I'm saying he needs more help as a joke. Like forming a superteam in miami wasn't enough now he needs MORE help. Get it? Good.

therealwd27
06-28-2014, 05:53 PM
The amount of guys doing it is new but not taking less money to help your team.

Difference is Lebron is best player on the planet

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-28-2014, 05:53 PM
Thats the Nba job, is to keep their fans/viewers interested into their television drama series. You may even be able to see sneak previews before the show picks back up.

Enjoy.

I always see you saying this. So you think the Heat took a dive do the NBA fans would be entertained? If it's just a show, why do you "flaunt" their 3 titles in your sig?

therealwd27
06-28-2014, 05:57 PM
I always see you saying this. So you think the Heat took a dive do the NBA fans would be entertained? If it's just a show, why do you "flaunt" their 3 titles in your sig?

He's clearly not a fan. Must be another Amoser or JerelHill

Bruno
06-28-2014, 06:01 PM
Good stuff by Wade. They're going to have a huge problem long term if he takes a 5 year deal in the 75 mill range.

Miami would be in a Knick type purgatory well into the 2020's but it would have been worth it. with one more title they propel themselves right behind SAS for 5th most titles ever. they could tout themselves as a top five franchise despite being created in the late 80's.

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 06:07 PM
'If this is a plan to add another player then this just shows how stupid and artificially players are obtained in the NBA. It's basically tricks and loopholes that help develop a squad. Take away the salary cap, or at least make it a hard cap. Players "opting out" then "opting back in" to restructure for a fourth star player. Stupid.'

You can support it or be against it but this is what's going on.

therealwd27
06-28-2014, 06:10 PM
'If this is a plan to add another player then this just shows how stupid and artificially players are obtained in the NBA. It's basically tricks and loopholes that help develop a squad. Take away the salary cap, or at least make it a hard cap. Players "opting out" then "opting back in" to restructure for a fourth star player. Stupid.'

You can support it or be against it but this is what's going on.

Put the gun down. It's not worth it

superkegger
06-28-2014, 06:10 PM
I mean he pretty much had to opt out if he wanted LeBron to stay right? No way you can justify what he would have gotten paid for his production. It would seem this would signal that there's an even stronger chance than ever that LeBron will stay in Miami, but will be interesting to see how everything plays out.

ThuglifeJ
06-28-2014, 06:11 PM
Put the gun down. It's not worth it

Lol can't have your own opinion or sides? Don't stand up for yourself. People are sensitive. This is 2014.

RaiderLakersA's
06-28-2014, 06:17 PM
Have you seen godfather 3, because that'll mean that it'll be a disaster...

This.

NBA_Starter
06-28-2014, 06:29 PM
Houston better put the full court press on LeBron now.

TylerSL
06-28-2014, 06:34 PM
This basically ensures Lebron is coming back. Obviously its not a done deal until it happens, but this makes Miami the most flexible team with Bosh and Haslem also opting out. The only guys we have on cap next season is Cole at 2.15 million, and Napier on a rookie salary. We will NOT go out and get Melo or anything, but we will after guys like Lowry, Deng, Gortat, Okafor, Gasol, Vince Carter, and Ariza (hopefully, in that order).

I assume Wade/Bosh/Haslem will want new contracts fairly early in the Free Agent process while Lebron will wait to see what Miami builds around him before he signs a contract. Bosh is said to want 5 years in the $15-16 million per season range, while Wade is said to want 4 years in the $50-55 million total range. I expect Wade to get 4/56 million and Bosh 5/70 million. I also think their contracts will be a set 14 million a year. I believe this because Wade knows he is in decline and as he gets worse, he won't want to be looked at as just another overpaid player, but at the same time he doesn't want to be a $10 million or less player either. I believe Bosh will settle with 14 million/year as he wants to be in Miami for the long haul. Haslem, 34 will probably get a 4 year deal for something like 10 million, no options and all guaranteed. That will probably be Haslem's last contract in the NBA as he will be 38 when that would be up.

Asuming that is what they sign for and Napier gets his rookie salary which will be 1 million they would look like

Wade-14 million
Bosh-14 million
Haslem-2.5 million
Cole-2.15 million
Napier 1 million

Total 33.65

That would only make up just a little over 1/2 the cap and we would have a real chance at some good players. We can always go over the cap to resign Lebron too.

Quinnsanity
06-28-2014, 06:35 PM
Why are people suddenly acting like it's a lock that LeBron comes back? Looking at the free agency landscape, I don't think there's a single player that closes the gap between them and San Antonio. I mean, I guess you could argue Carmelo, but he doesn't exactly fix their bigger problems from last year (mainly, the defense, not to mention the fact he's a secretly horrible fit in Miami's offense unless he just becomes a spot-up shooter, which is a waste of his talent). Let's say they sign for a combined $45 million or so with Cole's $2 million still on the books. What do you do that really closes the gap between Miami and San Antonio? Kyle Lowry? Not a great fit, he's moody as hell and had his breakthrough in a contract year and on a team that let him control the ball (neither of which would come in Miami). Really, what they need is someone who can protect the rim without ruining their spacing. I don't see such a player out there. Considering Wade's aging, I don't think there's really an avenue for them to get significantly better. Carmelo would be just diminishing returns, and I don't think he's realistic anyway. Even if they get a fourth guy, what does the bench look like? Are you really winning titles with LeBron, aging Wade, Bosh, Free Agent X, Shabazz Napier, 139-year-old Udonis Haslem and whatever minimum salary guys they can scrape together? Didn't San Antonio just prove that you can't beat them that way?

I mean honestly, doesn't Cleveland seem like a better pure basketball situation, especially since adding LeBron would likely come with a Kevin Love trade and extension? Doesn't Houston make a lot more sense considering they have two things LeBron sorely lacked last year (a rim protector and someone who could run the offense and give him a break), and will likely re-up Parsons and then deal him for role players midseason? I understand ignoring Chicago (Rose injury) the Lakers (Kobe's age and Kobe's personality) or the Clippers (Sterling mess), but I just can't imagine LeBron looking at Miami and then looking at Houston and Cleveland and saying "Miami gives me the best chance to continue winning championships." And before you go arguing that LeBron is loyal to Miami... do you really want to put the words "LeBron" and "loyal" in the same sentence? I think LeBron has pretty much proven that he's going to do what's best for LeBron, and that's totally fine. I don't know what Miami could do to make themselves his best basketball destination.

I'm not saying there's no chance that LeBron stays or even that they aren't the favorite, but I just can't imagine this is the lock everyone's making it out to be. There are far better basketball opportunities out there, he could restore his relationship with Cleveland, he could build his own dynasty in Houston, he could be the guy who saved the Lakers or the guy who permanently swung LA towards the Clippers, or he could go win titles in MJ's building and build up his GOAT case. These are all infinitely more appealing opportunities than wasting the tail end of your prime carrying Dwyane Wade's bum knees. I think LeBron is going to be more than amenable to a change of scenery. I think he just wants to keep winning.

DaBear
06-28-2014, 06:38 PM
Looks like Heat fans are opting out from attendance.

CityofTreez
06-28-2014, 06:40 PM
Lol can't have your own opinion or sides? Don't stand up for yourself. People are sensitive. This is 2014.

Let's not get too sensitive over an offseason decision in a sport.
Unless your altar is the United Center, then I fully understand!

naps
06-28-2014, 06:44 PM
Lebron needs more help :laugh2:

Love this tho..Heat will get someone like Melo or Lowry/Gortat, everyone super excited because the super team is now super super team and everyone will suck their Ds on the cake walk to the East Finalsa and then an expected championship again.

But then they run into a West team...who knows how to play together and you start to see their flaws and inability to handle the pressure.

ahh 2014 NBA Finals :) ... Good times.

So you are THAT much hurt that you even created a thread saying it's illegal for players to opt out and re-sign? Jesus...

TylerSL
06-28-2014, 06:45 PM
Why are people suddenly acting like it's a lock that LeBron comes back? Looking at the free agency landscape, I don't think there's a single player that closes the gap between them and San Antonio. I mean, I guess you could argue Carmelo, but he doesn't exactly fix their bigger problems from last year (mainly, the defense, not to mention the fact he's a secretly horrible fit in Miami's offense unless he just becomes a spot-up shooter, which is a waste of his talent). Let's say they sign for a combined $45 million or so with Cole's $2 million still on the books. What do you do that really closes the gap between Miami and San Antonio? Kyle Lowry? Not a great fit, he's moody as hell and had his breakthrough in a contract year and on a team that let him control the ball (neither of which would come in Miami). Really, what they need is someone who can protect the rim without ruining their spacing. I don't see such a player out there. Considering Wade's aging, I don't think there's really an avenue for them to get significantly better. Carmelo would be just diminishing returns, and I don't think he's realistic anyway. Even if they get a fourth guy, what does the bench look like? Are you really winning titles with LeBron, aging Wade, Bosh, Free Agent X, Shabazz Napier, 139-year-old Udonis Haslem and whatever minimum salary guys they can scrape together? Didn't San Antonio just prove that you can't beat them that way?

I mean honestly, doesn't Cleveland seem like a better pure basketball situation, especially since adding LeBron would likely come with a Kevin Love trade and extension? Doesn't Houston make a lot more sense considering they have two things LeBron sorely lacked last year (a rim protector and someone who could run the offense and give him a break), and will likely re-up Parsons and then deal him for role players midseason? I understand ignoring Chicago (Rose injury) the Lakers (Kobe's age and Kobe's personality) or the Clippers (Sterling mess), but I just can't imagine LeBron looking at Miami and then looking at Houston and Cleveland and saying "Miami gives me the best chance to continue winning championships." And before you go arguing that LeBron is loyal to Miami... do you really want to put the words "LeBron" and "loyal" in the same sentence? I think LeBron has pretty much proven that he's going to do what's best for LeBron, and that's totally fine. I don't know what Miami could do to make themselves his best basketball destination.

I'm not saying there's no chance that LeBron stays or even that they aren't the favorite, but I just can't imagine this is the lock everyone's making it out to be. There are far better basketball opportunities out there, he could restore his relationship with Cleveland, he could build his own dynasty in Houston, he could be the guy who saved the Lakers or the guy who permanently swung LA towards the Clippers, or he could go win titles in MJ's building and build up his GOAT case. These are all infinitely more appealing opportunities than wasting the tail end of your prime carrying Dwyane Wade's bum knees. I think LeBron is going to be more than amenable to a change of scenery. I think he just wants to keep winning.


I don't believe Lebron is looking to leave. I think he will/would have if Wade/Bosh did not opt out, basically forcing them to come back next year as the same team. I think he will if Miami cannot bring anyone else in around him, but the team has already brought in Napier, and looks to be ultra aggressive in building the best team they can around him.

Look at San Antonio, who has been together for 10+ years and are still competing for titles. Lebron has a chance to do that in Miami, but certain big moves have to be made to achieve that, and the only way he would leave, is if those moves have not or were not taking place, but they are.

beasted86
06-28-2014, 06:53 PM
Why are people suddenly acting like it's a lock that LeBron comes back? Looking at the free agency landscape, I don't think there's a single player that closes the gap between them and San Antonio. I mean, I guess you could argue Carmelo, but he doesn't exactly fix their bigger problems from last year (mainly, the defense, not to mention the fact he's a secretly horrible fit in Miami's offense unless he just becomes a spot-up shooter, which is a waste of his talent). Let's say they sign for a combined $45 million or so with Cole's $2 million still on the books. What do you do that really closes the gap between Miami and San Antonio? Kyle Lowry? Not a great fit, he's moody as hell and had his breakthrough in a contract year and on a team that let him control the ball (neither of which would come in Miami). Really, what they need is someone who can protect the rim without ruining their spacing. I don't see such a player out there. Considering Wade's aging, I don't think there's really an avenue for them to get significantly better. Carmelo would be just diminishing returns, and I don't think he's realistic anyway. Even if they get a fourth guy, what does the bench look like? Are you really winning titles with LeBron, aging Wade, Bosh, Free Agent X, Shabazz Napier, 139-year-old Udonis Haslem and whatever minimum salary guys they can scrape together? Didn't San Antonio just prove that you can't beat them that way?

I mean honestly, doesn't Cleveland seem like a better pure basketball situation, especially since adding LeBron would likely come with a Kevin Love trade and extension? Doesn't Houston make a lot more sense considering they have two things LeBron sorely lacked last year (a rim protector and someone who could run the offense and give him a break), and will likely re-up Parsons and then deal him for role players midseason? I understand ignoring Chicago (Rose injury) the Lakers (Kobe's age and Kobe's personality) or the Clippers (Sterling mess), but I just can't imagine LeBron looking at Miami and then looking at Houston and Cleveland and saying "Miami gives me the best chance to continue winning championships." And before you go arguing that LeBron is loyal to Miami... do you really want to put the words "LeBron" and "loyal" in the same sentence? I think LeBron has pretty much proven that he's going to do what's best for LeBron, and that's totally fine. I don't know what Miami could do to make themselves his best basketball destination.

I'm not saying there's no chance that LeBron stays or even that they aren't the favorite, but I just can't imagine this is the lock everyone's making it out to be. There are far better basketball opportunities out there, he could restore his relationship with Cleveland, he could build his own dynasty in Houston, he could be the guy who saved the Lakers or the guy who permanently swung LA towards the Clippers, or he could go win titles in MJ's building and build up his GOAT case. These are all infinitely more appealing opportunities than wasting the tail end of your prime carrying Dwyane Wade's bum knees. I think LeBron is going to be more than amenable to a change of scenery. I think he just wants to keep winning.

So let me get this straight. A team that got beat in the first round of the playoffs with home court advantage with everybody healthy is the best option over anything Miami could possibly put together? A team that failed miserably the last 4 years, plays a selfish brand of basketball from its "star" players down, has a rookie unproven head coach is the best option?

Did you really just say those things and actually believe them?

Shmontaine
06-28-2014, 06:54 PM
This basically ensures Lebron is coming back. Obviously its not a done deal until it happens, but this makes Miami the most flexible team with Bosh and Haslem also opting out. The only guys we have on cap next season is Cole at 2.15 million, and Napier on a rookie salary. We will NOT go out and get Melo or anything, but we will after guys like Lowry, Deng, Gortat, Okafor, Gasol, Vince Carter, and Ariza (hopefully, in that order).

I assume Wade/Bosh/Haslem will want new contracts fairly early in the Free Agent process while Lebron will wait to see what Miami builds around him before he signs a contract. Bosh is said to want 5 years in the $15-16 million per season range, while Wade is said to want 4 years in the $50-55 million total range. I expect Wade to get 4/56 million and Bosh 5/70 million. I also think their contracts will be a set 14 million a year. I believe this because Wade knows he is in decline and as he gets worse, he won't want to be looked at as just another overpaid player, but at the same time he doesn't want to be a $10 million or less player either. I believe Bosh will settle with 14 million/year as he wants to be in Miami for the long haul. Haslem, 34 will probably get a 4 year deal for something like 10 million, no options and all guaranteed. That will probably be Haslem's last contract in the NBA as he will be 38 when that would be up.

Asuming that is what they sign for and Napier gets his rookie salary which will be 1 million they would look like

Wade-14 million
Bosh-14 million
Haslem-2.5 million
Cole-2.15 million
Napier 1 million

Total 33.65

That would only make up just a little over 1/2 the cap and we would have a real chance at some good players. We can always go over the cap to resign Lebron too.

Nope...

The big 3 still have a 20 million dollar cap hold on each until they sign for less. Assuming they all resign, they will be under the cap, in which the heat can't go over it. No mle or mini mle either.

Dade County
06-28-2014, 06:58 PM
I always see you saying this. So you think the Heat took a dive do the NBA fans would be entertained? If it's just a show, why do you "flaunt" their 3 titles in your sig?

I wouldn't call it flaunting...

I am really truly only happy with the 1st title (even though Wade went to the line like 97tiimes)... What Lbj did in that Dallas series really made me kind of detached emotionally.

I am just happy that the Miami HEAT organization actually won a title, in this corrupt league (but i didn't know back then what I know now).

I sometimes think to myself, I would enjoy a team like when we had tim hardaway, thunder dan, Zo & crew; because I know they are playing real every night, and their are NO unusual losses. Like when the HEAT had a chance to tie the C'3 streak of beating WC teams, and what do you know, they loss to the Kings.

This is the price of having a team, come together this way; and having the team leader (Lbj), so weak minded that he would actually compile with this madness (because he has the talent to over come the refs, if they try to take him out for an entire playoff series). This is one of the reason, if Lbj left, you wouldn't here any negativity from me.

So in short, I feel lucky that the HEAT actually were able to win some championships in this crooked *** league. Even though they should have more titles, and way more convincing wins in the playoffs and Final's, I understand that this is a business, and they just couldn't let the HEAT win 4 straight Final's, like they could have.

I would have enjoyed it, but the majority would have checked out already, if the HEAT would have already had an opportunity to 3 peat when they faced the Spurs last year.


He's clearly not a fan. Must be another Amoser or JerelHill

What? Just because I see the truth, you want me to go around ignoring it?

Man, I born in dade raised in dade. I went to Norland elementary, middle & high, I'm in North Miami right now lol.

therealwd27
06-28-2014, 07:00 PM
Nope...

The big 3 still have a 20 million dollar cap hold on each until they sign for less. Assuming they all resign, they will be under the cap, in which the heat can't go over it. No mle or mini mle either.

They can renounce there rights.

Shmontaine
06-28-2014, 07:03 PM
They can renounce there rights.

Correct.

In doing so, they are treated like any other FA, meaning the heat can't go over the cap to get them

Quinnsanity
06-28-2014, 07:14 PM
So let me get this straight. A team that got beat in the first round of the playoffs with home court advantage with everybody healthy is the best option over anything Miami could possibly put together? A team that failed miserably the last 4 years, plays a selfish brand of basketball from its "star" players down, has a rookie unproven head coach is the best option?

Did you really just say those things and actually believe them?

Let's try this another way: is a team that won 54 games in the West without LeBron better than a team that won 54 games in the East WITH LeBron? Yes. That's not even a question.

Does a team with a a 22-year-old All Star, an incoming No. 1 pick and a host of solid role players (Waiters, Thompson, Varejao, Jack etc...) give you a better chance at winning championships for the next five-seven years than a team with a 32-year-old no longer All Star, a 30-year-old borderline All-Star, Kyle Lowry and a mid-20's draft pick? The former. The only real argument to the contrary would be Cleveland's organizational history, but Cleveland is a better situation for winning even without a Kevin Love trade, which would likely come if LeBron signed.

Wanna keep playing this game? I don't think any intelligent basketball fan could say that, without LeBron, Houston, Chicago, the Clippers and even Cleveland all have a better chance of winning a championship than Miami. Therefore, it stands to reason that any of those teams would have a better chance of winning the title WITH LeBron.

I'm not saying that he absolutely won't go back to Miami. There's a very good chance that he does. But if you really think Miami gives him the absolute best chance of winning championships over the life of this next contract, you're wrong. You're absolutely wrong. If LeBron goes back to Miami, it's because he thinks there's SOME chance of winning titles there, not the best chance, and because he wants to continue playing in a city he enjoys with his friends. There is no logical argument that Miami could field the best basketball team around LeBron of any of the teams interested.

king4day
06-28-2014, 07:27 PM
I'm guessing Lowry and Gortat head to Miami. I'll be very angry if this happens. That'll remove two more teams from eastern conference competitiveness.

C-Wick925
06-28-2014, 07:30 PM
The whole team is planning a 2 hour special on ESPN to announce where they will sign..

Dade County
06-28-2014, 07:33 PM
Let's try this another way: is a team that won 54 games in the West without LeBron better than a team that won 54 games in the East WITH LeBron? Yes. That's not even a question.

Does a team with a a 22-year-old All Star, an incoming No. 1 pick and a host of solid role players (Waiters, Thompson, Varejao, Jack etc...) give you a better chance at winning championships for the next five-seven years than a team with a 32-year-old no longer All Star, a 30-year-old borderline All-Star, Kyle Lowry and a mid-20's draft pick? The former. The only real argument to the contrary would be Cleveland's organizational history, but Cleveland is a better situation for winning even without a Kevin Love trade, which would likely come if LeBron signed.

Wanna keep playing this game? I don't think any intelligent basketball fan could say that, without LeBron, Houston, Chicago, the Clippers and even Cleveland all have a better chance of winning a championship than Miami. Therefore, it stands to reason that any of those teams would have a better chance of winning the title WITH LeBron.

I'm not saying that he absolutely won't go back to Miami. There's a very good chance that he does. But if you really think Miami gives him the absolute best chance of winning championships over the life of this next contract, you're wrong. You're absolutely wrong. If LeBron goes back to Miami, it's because he thinks there's SOME chance of winning titles there, not the best chance, and because he wants to continue playing in a city he enjoys with his friends. There is no logical argument that Miami could field the best basketball team around LeBron of any of the teams interested.

But you are not factoring in what Pat can do with a little time. Pat has 50plus to play with, I trust that he can build around any star player as the years go by.

Hawkeye15
06-28-2014, 07:37 PM
Correct.

In doing so, they are treated like any other FA, meaning the heat can't go over the cap to get them

we would have to assume they will sign a deal the first possible second, while another deal/trade, whatever Riley has secured will follow immediately.

There is a plan behind all of this, Riley just has to hope it works.

Shmontaine
06-28-2014, 07:37 PM
I think they can add one solid player, but they have mandatory cap holds on all roster slots. They have to sign all major players for 55 million. It's great flexibility, but not enough to add 5 difference makers IMO. Plus, all remaining role players have to sign for minimums (Allen's and the like).

Hawkeye15
06-28-2014, 07:38 PM
But you are not factoring in what Pat can do with a little time. Pat has 50plus to play with, I trust that he can build around any star player as the years go by.

we will really have to see what Wade/Bosh contracts look like. Hopefully for Miami's sake, Wade takes around $10 million a year for 4 years, Bosh similar, leaving a $14-16 million starting salary for LeBron, which leaves $16-17 million left to play with.

Hawkeye15
06-28-2014, 07:39 PM
I think they can add one solid player, but they have mandatory cap holds on all roster slots. They have to sign all major players for 55 million. It's great flexibility, but not enough to add 5 difference makers IMO. Plus, all remaining role players have to sign for minimums (Allen's and the like).

agreed. It's not like this means they can just re-tool the team entirely. They will have money for one serious player, and some money left to upgrade that bench. We will see where the Lowry deal goes, that would be a big upgrade for them, and they can still try and get some reliable big defender and a shooter or two.

Shmontaine
06-28-2014, 07:41 PM
we would have to assume they will sign a deal the first possible second, while another deal/trade, whatever Riley has secured will follow immediately.

There is a plan behind all of this, Riley just has to hope it works.

Actually, the way to work it best is to do all the s&t for the players not gonna be on the team next year and get as much salary as you can with the trades. Then when the players resign they can hopefully stay over the cap, retaining their exceptions. It will be interesting to see if the rest of the team will take sign and trades to help the heat.

raiderposting
06-28-2014, 07:43 PM
Lebron isn't the best player on the planet. Seventh Woods is.

Jarvo
06-28-2014, 07:50 PM
it is weird how every other team in the league cant get players to take less ,they have to be paid at or above market value to go there

Spurs?

cssdmark
06-28-2014, 08:00 PM
Exactly, this is like the Godfather 3. Y'all thought there wouldn't be a sequel to the sequel, thought the story was already finished.

The sequel to the sequel suckec

beasted86
06-28-2014, 08:02 PM
Let's try this another way: is a team that won 54 games in the West without LeBron better than a team that won 54 games in the East WITH LeBron? Yes. That's not even a question.

Does a team with a a 22-year-old All Star, an incoming No. 1 pick and a host of solid role players (Waiters, Thompson, Varejao, Jack etc...) give you a better chance at winning championships for the next five-seven years than a team with a 32-year-old no longer All Star, a 30-year-old borderline All-Star, Kyle Lowry and a mid-20's draft pick? The former. The only real argument to the contrary would be Cleveland's organizational history, but Cleveland is a better situation for winning even without a Kevin Love trade, which would likely come if LeBron signed.

Wanna keep playing this game? I don't think any intelligent basketball fan could say that, without LeBron, Houston, Chicago, the Clippers and even Cleveland all have a better chance of winning a championship than Miami. Therefore, it stands to reason that any of those teams would have a better chance of winning the title WITH LeBron.

I'm not saying that he absolutely won't go back to Miami. There's a very good chance that he does. But if you really think Miami gives him the absolute best chance of winning championships over the life of this next contract, you're wrong. You're absolutely wrong. If LeBron goes back to Miami, it's because he thinks there's SOME chance of winning titles there, not the best chance, and because he wants to continue playing in a city he enjoys with his friends. There is no logical argument that Miami could field the best basketball team around LeBron of any of the teams interested.

I honestly cannot believe that somebody is trying to entertain the idea that a team that was so terrible they JUST won the #1 overall pick is suddenly ripe as a contending squad. I really am not going to delve any further into that. View that stance as a straw man if you must. You didn't say 2-3 years from now, but actually right now being that the main crux of your argument LeBron only cares about winning right away and has no loyalty to Miami nor Cleveland or any team, his only loyalty is to winning championships. Cleveland isn't worth discussing as the best option for winning right now, period, as far as I'm concerned.

As for the Rockets "winning" the regular season means very little when they were terrible in the post season. I really don't think you are letting how disappointing their playoff showing was resonate. They lost to a younger inexperienced team with homecourt advantage and couldn't push the series to 7 games. The team would certainly suffer form chemistry issues beyond what we already saw last season as there is a new power struggle for touches and role that will begin. Beyond these factors, I deem it absolutely absurd that you would state with complete confidence that Beverley, Harden, Parsons, and Howard is better than ANYTHING that Riley could possibly compose using cap space given that the last time he used cap space it brought together 3 top 10 players in the league.

MoneyBall20
06-28-2014, 08:17 PM
D Wade with bad knees are u sure Miami u want 2 sign him back,not sure.
Maimi will b loyal and sign him back. This is all set up 2 free up money and 2 get some other talented free agents :(

NBA_Starter
06-28-2014, 08:20 PM
D Wade with bad knees are u sure Miami u want 2 sign him back,not sure.
Maimi will b loyal and sign him back. This is all set up 2 free up money and 2 get some other talented free agents :(

I wonder how low of a contract he will take?

Chrisclover
06-28-2014, 08:30 PM
Should pretty much lock up LeBron returning to Miami, imo.
As expected, he opted out. I would say he has earned a lot of respect from Miami fans.

Chrisclover
06-28-2014, 08:34 PM
I've always thought 3/30 is right around what it will come in at for Wade.
Forsaking 40million in 2 years in return for 30 million in 3 years means that he works for one more year and “donates ” 10 million.
Insane.

Chrisclover
06-28-2014, 08:35 PM
Lebron isn't the best player on the planet. Seventh Woods is.
Who is this guy ?

NBA_Starter
06-28-2014, 09:10 PM
Who is this guy ?

A young high school player, he is a bad man but not better than LeBron. Youtube him.

TylerSL
06-28-2014, 09:32 PM
delete

TylerSL
06-28-2014, 09:36 PM
delete

Quinnsanity
06-28-2014, 10:05 PM
I honestly cannot believe that somebody is trying to entertain the idea that a team that was so terrible they JUST won the #1 overall pick is suddenly ripe as a contending squad. I really am not going to delve any further into that. View that stance as a straw man if you must. You didn't say 2-3 years from now, but actually right now being that the main crux of your argument LeBron only cares about winning right away and has no loyalty to Miami nor Cleveland or any team, his only loyalty is to winning championships. Cleveland isn't worth discussing as the best option for winning right now, period, as far as I'm concerned.

As for the Rockets "winning" the regular season means very little when they were terrible in the post season. I really don't think you are letting how disappointing their playoff showing was resonate. They lost to a younger inexperienced team with homecourt advantage and couldn't push the series to 7 games. The team would certainly suffer form chemistry issues beyond what we already saw last season as there is a new power struggle for touches and role that will begin. Beyond these factors, I deem it absolutely absurd that you would state with complete confidence that Beverley, Harden, Parsons, and Howard is better than ANYTHING that Riley could possibly compose using cap space given that the last time he used cap space it brought together 3 top 10 players in the league.

If you can't consider the improvement of an incredibly young team, then no, we can't have the Cleveland discussion. But as for Houston, really? You're going to bring up the playoffs? Because last I checked, Miami stormed through the ****** Eastern Conference and then got absolutely decimated by San Antonio. The team that beat Houston, Portland, was better than any team Miami beat. Had Houston and Miami switched conferences, the Rockets absolutely win the East. I don't know what happens to Miami in the West, but we saw two teams really push San Antonio: an eight seed and a team playing with an injured rim third guy. Both did significantly better against the Spurs than the Heat did. Miami plays in a weaker conference. They were not the second best team in basketball last year. Don't let their appearance in the Finals fool you.

And yes, Harden, Howard, Parsons and Beverley IS better than ANYTHING Riley could possibly do short of Carmelo (and that's just talent-wise, frankly I don't see the fit). Look at it this way. Harden is significantly better than Wade, Howard is better than Bosh AND serves a far more vital function and Beverley is better than Cole/Napier. So basically, in order for Miami to catch up, they'd need to find someone in free agency or in a trade that is significantly better than Chandler Parsons and will remain so for the life of the contract. Such a player does not exist with the exception of Carmelo and Eric Bledsoe (fat chance Phoenix lets him go to Miami). Please, if you have a scenario in free agency that leads to a better opportunity than Houston, speak up. They'd have to find a rim protector (the only real one out there is Gortat) and they'd have to sign another top level role player (Lowry/Deng) just to make it a conversation. No freaking way Washington is letting either Gortat or Ariza go after the season they just had and the weakness of the East, they'll massively overpay, they think they're contenders. Considering the season Lowry just had and the fact that Toronto has no reasonable alternative, they'll probably end up paying him $13 or $14 million per year to stay. Maybe more. If you want to match that, go ahead, you'll have a six man roster and three of them will be point guards. It's not a matter of me not having faith in Riley, because he's an extraordinary GM, but the free agents it would take for him to vault Miami past Houston in terms of having a better overall team to entice LeBron with simply don't exist. Could Riley do some interesting things to give Miami a better shot to win next year's title? Yea, definitely. Those things just won't involve building a team that is better than what Houston has now (obviously not including LeBron). Oh, and on top of that, Houston has a likely lottery pick next year to add another strong piece. Houston has more talent, Houston is younger, and Houston is a far better basketball fit because they actually have a rim protector and they have someone who can run the offense and take pressure off of LeBron (a legitimate factor considering how much he wore down in the Finals). There is no scenario in free agency where Miami builds a better non-LeBron-included team than Houston. It cannot happen. Is Miami better than Houston with LeBron? Even that's up in the air depending on what else the Rockets do. Will Miami end up with a better record? Maybe, but that's only because they're in the East. Stick a LeBron-led Rockets team in this Eastern conference and they might win 73.

Again, I'm not saying LeBron is absolutely leaving or even that I think he will, but there is absolutely no question that there are better basketball situations for him out there. We haven't even discussed the Clippers (who would be no matter what), the Bulls (who would be assuming Rose is healthy) or the Lakers (who could be with some maneuvering). Miami is just not the best basketball situation for LeBron. It might be the best total situation depending on what he wants, but it absolutely is not the best basketball situation.

FlashBolt
06-28-2014, 10:33 PM
If you can't consider the improvement of an incredibly young team, then no, we can't have the Cleveland discussion. But as for Houston, really? You're going to bring up the playoffs? Because last I checked, Miami stormed through the ****** Eastern Conference and then got absolutely decimated by San Antonio. The team that beat Houston, Portland, was better than any team Miami beat. Had Houston and Miami switched conferences, the Rockets absolutely win the East. I don't know what happens to Miami in the West, but we saw two teams really push San Antonio: an eight seed and a team playing with an injured rim third guy. Both did significantly better against the Spurs than the Heat did. Miami plays in a weaker conference. They were not the second best team in basketball last year. Don't let their appearance in the Finals fool you.

And yes, Harden, Howard, Parsons and Beverley IS better than ANYTHING Riley could possibly do short of Carmelo (and that's just talent-wise, frankly I don't see the fit). Look at it this way. Harden is significantly better than Wade, Howard is better than Bosh AND serves a far more vital function and Beverley is better than Cole/Napier. So basically, in order for Miami to catch up, they'd need to find someone in free agency or in a trade that is significantly better than Chandler Parsons and will remain so for the life of the contract. Such a player does not exist with the exception of Carmelo and Eric Bledsoe (fat chance Phoenix lets him go to Miami). Please, if you have a scenario in free agency that leads to a better opportunity than Houston, speak up. They'd have to find a rim protector (the only real one out there is Gortat) and they'd have to sign another top level role player (Lowry/Deng) just to make it a conversation. No freaking way Washington is letting either Gortat or Ariza go after the season they just had and the weakness of the East, they'll massively overpay, they think they're contenders. Considering the season Lowry just had and the fact that Toronto has no reasonable alternative, they'll probably end up paying him $13 or $14 million per year to stay. Maybe more. If you want to match that, go ahead, you'll have a six man roster and three of them will be point guards. It's not a matter of me not having faith in Riley, because he's an extraordinary GM, but the free agents it would take for him to vault Miami past Houston in terms of having a better overall team to entice LeBron with simply don't exist. Could Riley do some interesting things to give Miami a better shot to win next year's title? Yea, definitely. Those things just won't involve building a team that is better than what Houston has now (obviously not including LeBron). Oh, and on top of that, Houston has a likely lottery pick next year to add another strong piece. Houston has more talent, Houston is younger, and Houston is a far better basketball fit because they actually have a rim protector and they have someone who can run the offense and take pressure off of LeBron (a legitimate factor considering how much he wore down in the Finals). There is no scenario in free agency where Miami builds a better non-LeBron-included team than Houston. It cannot happen. Is Miami better than Houston with LeBron? Even that's up in the air depending on what else the Rockets do. Will Miami end up with a better record? Maybe, but that's only because they're in the East. Stick a LeBron-led Rockets team in this Eastern conference and they might win 73.

Again, I'm not saying LeBron is absolutely leaving or even that I think he will, but there is absolutely no question that there are better basketball situations for him out there. We haven't even discussed the Clippers (who would be no matter what), the Bulls (who would be assuming Rose is healthy) or the Lakers (who could be with some maneuvering). Miami is just not the best basketball situation for LeBron. It might be the best total situation depending on what he wants, but it absolutely is not the best basketball situation.

Some great analysis but Miami is indeed the best place for LeBron.

1) Less pressure. With LeBron on another team other than Miami or Cleveland, he will receive a crap ton of pressure because everyone will just blast him for hopping teams. We all know LeBron doesn't like the media hating him and the past couple of years, the media has been nothing but supportive. No way LeBron doesn't take that into consideration.

2) Wade/Bosh get the system. Who's to say if LeBron goes to Houston that James Harden or Rose are willingly giving him the option to lead and defer to him? We all know Kobe is not deferring to any one. The dude won't even pass the ball to his daughter if it mattered.

3) Houston plays in the West. The best basketball conference by far vs the weaker conference that guarantees the East Finals every year as long as LeBron has a decent amount of help. Houston isn't even the 5th best team in the West. Clippers, Portland, OKC, Spurs, and Warriors or Memphis are right up there as well. Even with James, Houston would have trouble getting past any of them.

4) Wade is better than Harden. Regular season was a different story but come playoff time, Wade performed much better than Harden did. The thing that people forget with Wade was that he was playing amazing before the Spurs Finals. Wade was easily their second best player and playing much better than he did since 3 years ago. Harden was a major disappointment against Portland. He scored 26 or whatever but if you watched that series, he was horrible. Chucking up shots, turning over the ball, and missing freebies left and right. He had maybe two good games and other than that, he did nothing that leads me to believe he was better than Wade. Oh yeah, that was just 6 games. Wade played great for 15 games in the playoffs. Had Houston gone against Spurs, James Harden would have played even worse! Yes, I understand that Harden played against Portland, blah, blah, blah. But the level of consistency Wade had in those series far overshadows Harden having to play 6 measly games against Portland - who aren't exactly a great defensive team. Indiana had the best defense, btw. Which is a testament that Portland might be the third and not second best team on the East.

5) No one knows what Miami's cap situation is. We do however know what Houston's cap is. They don't resign Parsons next year if they get Bron, Harden, and Dwight. Parsons is worth at least 8 million and that is at least. He can easily get 10 million on any other team that needs a boost. Beverley is a steal for less than a million. Again, you don't get him the year after this for under a million. Try at least 5 million just for his defense. So basically you have those players on your roster for 1 year and with James, you barely have enough to make a solid roster the year after that. James wants to win for years to come. This is probably going to be his last contract in regards with his prime years. With Wade/Bosh/James/Haslem all opting out and if they take less, they will have around 10-20 million to play with if things go the way I think it should goes. (Wade takes 12, Bosh takes 14, Haslem takes 3, and James takes 15 or 20), trade Cole and sign Lowry with Napier coming off the bench, very do-able. And you do know Toronto taxes are off the charts, right?

Xplicit
06-28-2014, 10:36 PM
maybe

13mil for 5years for Wade..
13-15mill for 5years for Bosh..

Chrisclover
06-28-2014, 11:02 PM
A young high school player, he is a bad man but not better than LeBron. Youtube him.
Thanks for your info.

Quinnsanity
06-29-2014, 12:17 AM
Some great analysis but Miami is indeed the best place for LeBron.

1) Less pressure. With LeBron on another team other than Miami or Cleveland, he will receive a crap ton of pressure because everyone will just blast him for hopping teams. We all know LeBron doesn't like the media hating him and the past couple of years, the media has been nothing but supportive. No way LeBron doesn't take that into consideration.

2) Wade/Bosh get the system. Who's to say if LeBron goes to Houston that James Harden or Rose are willingly giving him the option to lead and defer to him? We all know Kobe is not deferring to any one. The dude won't even pass the ball to his daughter if it mattered.

3) Houston plays in the West. The best basketball conference by far vs the weaker conference that guarantees the East Finals every year as long as LeBron has a decent amount of help. Houston isn't even the 5th best team in the West. Clippers, Portland, OKC, Spurs, and Warriors or Memphis are right up there as well. Even with James, Houston would have trouble getting past any of them.

4) Wade is better than Harden. Regular season was a different story but come playoff time, Wade performed much better than Harden did. The thing that people forget with Wade was that he was playing amazing before the Spurs Finals. Wade was easily their second best player and playing much better than he did since 3 years ago. Harden was a major disappointment against Portland. He scored 26 or whatever but if you watched that series, he was horrible. Chucking up shots, turning over the ball, and missing freebies left and right. He had maybe two good games and other than that, he did nothing that leads me to believe he was better than Wade. Oh yeah, that was just 6 games. Wade played great for 15 games in the playoffs. Had Houston gone against Spurs, James Harden would have played even worse! Yes, I understand that Harden played against Portland, blah, blah, blah. But the level of consistency Wade had in those series far overshadows Harden having to play 6 measly games against Portland - who aren't exactly a great defensive team. Indiana had the best defense, btw. Which is a testament that Portland might be the third and not second best team on the East.

5) No one knows what Miami's cap situation is. We do however know what Houston's cap is. They don't resign Parsons next year if they get Bron, Harden, and Dwight. Parsons is worth at least 8 million and that is at least. He can easily get 10 million on any other team that needs a boost. Beverley is a steal for less than a million. Again, you don't get him the year after this for under a million. Try at least 5 million just for his defense. So basically you have those players on your roster for 1 year and with James, you barely have enough to make a solid roster the year after that. James wants to win for years to come. This is probably going to be his last contract in regards with his prime years. With Wade/Bosh/James/Haslem all opting out and if they take less, they will have around 10-20 million to play with if things go the way I think it should goes. (Wade takes 12, Bosh takes 14, Haslem takes 3, and James takes 15 or 20), trade Cole and sign Lowry with Napier coming off the bench, very do-able. And you do know Toronto taxes are off the charts, right?

See, at least you're actually making points and not just blindly arguing for the Heat. I respect that. Even if I disagree.

1. I suppose it's true, but I don't imagine it's a big consideration for him at this point. After all, nothing will top the pressure of 2010.

2. Again, I suppose that's true, but logically Harden and Howard are better basketball fits than Bosh and Wade. Howard's game revolves mostly around post defense, the one thing LeBron really can't do on his own. His post ups tend to slow the game down and limit ball movement, but I imagine they'd be able to come to a happy medium over time. Harden's personality is really geared more towards deferring anyway. He sent a letter to Presti before the draft saying something to the effect of "please draft me, I'll happily be a role player, I just want to win." He has the personality of someone who doesn't necessarily want to be the leader, he just wants to be on the best team. There would obviously be an adjustment period, but I think in the end fit wouldn't be a problem.

3. This is the one real point I'd put in Miami's favor. Playing in the West is murder.

4. You can't judge Harden off of a six-game sample size, especially one in which he was largely guarded by Nic Batum. Dwyane Wade has the benefit of being guarded by the opponent's worse wing defender, as the top guys (Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, etc...) are typically busy with LeBron. And again, though I haven't looked extensively at the numbers, I have a hard time believing Wade's efficiency trumps Harden's 26/6/5, and even if it does, you can't really believe that he'll stay at or even near Harden's level for the life of the contract. Harden still has room to grow, Wade is on the decline. And by the way, for Wade to play at his best in the playoffs he had to miss 30 games this year. That's extra wear and tear on LeBron's body that I imagine he doesn't want every year.

5. We actually do know how Houston's cap situation plays out. Here's the short version. Because they have Chandler Parsons' bird rights and because his cap hold is so low, they have the very unique opportunity to both retain his rights without it affecting their cap space AND bring him back over the cap without penalty. Basically, all they need for that to happen is for Parsons not to sign an offer sheet before they sign LeBron (as the moment he does, they either have to match it and watch his cap hold jump from practically nothing to whatever his new deal is worth or lose him for nothing). The overwhelming belief in the league is that they have an agreement in place to make sure he won't. So essentially, they can sign him to whatever deal they want, regardless of what happens with LeBron.

Now, the real question is this: do they keep Parsons? They likely answer is no. LeBron, Harden, Howard and Parsons would combine to make approximately $65-$70 million on their own. That pushes them up against the tax. Luckily, they have Beverley locked up for under a million and a few other players they hope to turn into rotation pieces (Isaiah Canaan, Troy Daniels, Terrance Jones, Donatas Motiejunas) all locked up for a grand total of around $5 million. So basically, they'd have 9 players in the range of $75 million. Not an ideal situation, that's already a few million above the tax, and that's before bringing in a few more minimum salary pieces to round out the roster. The likely resolution? Trading Parsons for multiple cheaper role players. This way, they still retain Parsons' value by getting something back for him and Parsons gets a bigger deal because Houston has no real cap limitations to what they can pay him. All they'd have to do is what until December 1st, or agree to a sign and trade, and this becomes possible. Beverley likely leaves in a year, but they have a likely lottery pick from New Orleans to replace him. In other words, you're looking at a roster of Dwight, Harden, LeBron, two solid role players acquired for Parsons (who has quite a bit of trade value, he's at least comparable to Danilo Gallinari in 2011 who was the main piece in a deal for Carmelo), Beverley, Jones, Canaan, Daniels, Motiejunas and a few minimum salary guys (with Ray Allen as a prime suspect considering how much he wants to keep playing with LeBron). The New Orleans pick replaces Beverley in a year, but overall that team is a really nice mix of overall basketball skills, star power and rotation players. It's an extraordinary team top to bottom, one that does a little bit of everything and should be easily the league's best defensive team even with Harden in the lineup.

As for the Lowry situation, it looks good on paper, but it doesn't really make much sense from a basketball standpoint. Lowry is notoriously moody, someone multiple coaches have clashed with, not someone you'd want to bring in to supposedly revitalize your aging contender. He also had his breakout year in a contract year and on a team that let him control the ball. Neither of those circumstances are replicable in Miami. Finally, Miami doesn't really ask much of their point guards, so signing Lowry doesn't make much sense schematically either. The real prize would be Marcin Gortat, because they need someone to protect the rim. However, unless Miami is willing to severely overpay, he's not leaving Washington. The Wizards just had their best year in while, and they will absolutely overpay to keep that team together. So basically, Miami CAN get Lowry if they want, but that leaves Miami with seven players under contracts, three of which are point guards, one of which is a big man who couldn't get minutes in the playoffs, one of which is 32 and aging in dog years with his bum knees, and absolutely no more cap space to bring in other players (remember, they have no mid-level exception considering they're opening free agency with this much cap space). They'd have to rely on minimum salary free agents to fill out their bench as nobody would give them a viable bench piece for Cole (who's value has never been lower). Even if they manage to do so, none of this solves the defensive issues that allowed San Antonio to absolutely feast on them in the Finals. So basically, Miami's situation is totally up in the air. Houston's is not.

SILVER SEAVER
06-29-2014, 12:36 AM
Next we'll hear that Pat Riley is opting out of his lifetime contract.

SILVER SEAVER
06-29-2014, 12:39 AM
See, at least you're actually making points and not just blindly arguing for the Heat. I respect that. Even if I disagree.

1. I suppose it's true, but I don't imagine it's a big consideration for him at this point. After all, nothing will top the pressure of 2010.

2. Again, I suppose that's true, but logically Harden and Howard are better basketball fits than Bosh and Wade. Howard's game revolves mostly around post defense, the one thing LeBron really can't do on his own. His post ups tend to slow the game down and limit ball movement, but I imagine they'd be able to come to a happy medium over time. Harden's personality is really geared more towards deferring anyway. He sent a letter to Presti before the draft saying something to the effect of "please draft me, I'll happily be a role player, I just want to win." He has the personality of someone who doesn't necessarily want to be the leader, he just wants to be on the best team. There would obviously be an adjustment period, but I think in the end fit wouldn't be a problem.

3. This is the one real point I'd put in Miami's favor. Playing in the West is murder.

4. You can't judge Harden off of a six-game sample size, especially one in which he was largely guarded by Nic Batum. Dwyane Wade has the benefit of being guarded by the opponent's worse wing defender, as the top guys (Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, etc...) are typically busy with LeBron. And again, though I haven't looked extensively at the numbers, I have a hard time believing Wade's efficiency trumps Harden's 26/6/5, and even if it does, you can't really believe that he'll stay at or even near Harden's level for the life of the contract. Harden still has room to grow, Wade is on the decline. And by the way, for Wade to play at his best in the playoffs he had to miss 30 games this year. That's extra wear and tear on LeBron's body that I imagine he doesn't want every year.

5. We actually do know how Houston's cap situation plays out. Here's the short version. Because they have Chandler Parsons' bird rights and because his cap hold is so low, they have the very unique opportunity to both retain his rights without it affecting their cap space AND bring him back over the cap without penalty. Basically, all they need for that to happen is for Parsons not to sign an offer sheet before they sign LeBron (as the moment he does, they either have to match it and watch his cap hold jump from practically nothing to whatever his new deal is worth or lose him for nothing). The overwhelming belief in the league is that they have an agreement in place to make sure he won't. So essentially, they can sign him to whatever deal they want, regardless of what happens with LeBron.

Now, the real question is this: do they keep Parsons? They likely answer is no. LeBron, Harden, Howard and Parsons would combine to make approximately $65-$70 million on their own. That pushes them up against the tax. Luckily, they have Beverley locked up for under a million and a few other players they hope to turn into rotation pieces (Isaiah Canaan, Troy Daniels, Terrance Jones, Donatas Motiejunas) all locked up for a grand total of around $5 million. So basically, they'd have 9 players in the range of $75 million. Not an ideal situation, that's already a few million above the tax, and that's before bringing in a few more minimum salary pieces to round out the roster. The likely resolution? Trading Parsons for multiple cheaper role players. This way, they still retain Parsons' value by getting something back for him and Parsons gets a bigger deal because Houston has no real cap limitations to what they can pay him. All they'd have to do is what until December 1st, or agree to a sign and trade, and this becomes possible. Beverley likely leaves in a year, but they have a likely lottery pick from New Orleans to replace him. In other words, you're looking at a roster of Dwight, Harden, LeBron, two solid role players acquired for Parsons (who has quite a bit of trade value, he's at least comparable to Danilo Gallinari in 2011 who was the main piece in a deal for Carmelo), Beverley, Jones, Canaan, Daniels, Motiejunas and a few minimum salary guys (with Ray Allen as a prime suspect considering how much he wants to keep playing with LeBron). The New Orleans pick replaces Beverley in a year, but overall that team is a really nice mix of overall basketball skills, star power and rotation players. It's an extraordinary team top to bottom, one that does a little bit of everything and should be easily the league's best defensive team even with Harden in the lineup.

As for the Lowry situation, it looks good on paper, but it doesn't really make much sense from a basketball standpoint. Lowry is notoriously moody, someone multiple coaches have clashed with, not someone you'd want to bring in to supposedly revitalize your aging contender. He also had his breakout year in a contract year and on a team that let him control the ball. Neither of those circumstances are replicable in Miami. Finally, Miami doesn't really ask much of their point guards, so signing Lowry doesn't make much sense schematically either. The real prize would be Marcin Gortat, because they need someone to protect the rim. However, unless Miami is willing to severely overpay, he's not leaving Washington. The Wizards just had their best year in while, and they will absolutely overpay to keep that team together. So basically, Miami CAN get Lowry if they want, but that leaves Miami with seven players under contracts, three of which are point guards, one of which is a big man who couldn't get minutes in the playoffs, one of which is 32 and aging in dog years with his bum knees, and absolutely no more cap space to bring in other players (remember, they have no mid-level exception considering they're opening free agency with this much cap space). They'd have to rely on minimum salary free agents to fill out their bench as nobody would give them a viable bench piece for Cole (who's value has never been lower). Even if they manage to do so, none of this solves the defensive issues that allowed San Antonio to absolutely feast on them in the Finals. So basically, Miami's situation is totally up in the air. Houston's is not.

Solid post.

FlashBolt
06-29-2014, 12:46 AM
See, at least you're actually making points and not just blindly arguing for the Heat. I respect that. Even if I disagree.

1. I suppose it's true, but I don't imagine it's a big consideration for him at this point. After all, nothing will top the pressure of 2010.

2. Again, I suppose that's true, but logically Harden and Howard are better basketball fits than Bosh and Wade. Howard's game revolves mostly around post defense, the one thing LeBron really can't do on his own. His post ups tend to slow the game down and limit ball movement, but I imagine they'd be able to come to a happy medium over time. Harden's personality is really geared more towards deferring anyway. He sent a letter to Presti before the draft saying something to the effect of "please draft me, I'll happily be a role player, I just want to win." He has the personality of someone who doesn't necessarily want to be the leader, he just wants to be on the best team. There would obviously be an adjustment period, but I think in the end fit wouldn't be a problem.

3. This is the one real point I'd put in Miami's favor. Playing in the West is murder.

4. You can't judge Harden off of a six-game sample size, especially one in which he was largely guarded by Nic Batum. Dwyane Wade has the benefit of being guarded by the opponent's worse wing defender, as the top guys (Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, etc...) are typically busy with LeBron. And again, though I haven't looked extensively at the numbers, I have a hard time believing Wade's efficiency trumps Harden's 26/6/5, and even if it does, you can't really believe that he'll stay at or even near Harden's level for the life of the contract. Harden still has room to grow, Wade is on the decline. And by the way, for Wade to play at his best in the playoffs he had to miss 30 games this year. That's extra wear and tear on LeBron's body that I imagine he doesn't want every year.

5. We actually do know how Houston's cap situation plays out. Here's the short version. Because they have Chandler Parsons' bird rights and because his cap hold is so low, they have the very unique opportunity to both retain his rights without it affecting their cap space AND bring him back over the cap without penalty. Basically, all they need for that to happen is for Parsons not to sign an offer sheet before they sign LeBron (as the moment he does, they either have to match it and watch his cap hold jump from practically nothing to whatever his new deal is worth or lose him for nothing). The overwhelming belief in the league is that they have an agreement in place to make sure he won't. So essentially, they can sign him to whatever deal they want, regardless of what happens with LeBron.

Now, the real question is this: do they keep Parsons? They likely answer is no. LeBron, Harden, Howard and Parsons would combine to make approximately $65-$70 million on their own. That pushes them up against the tax. Luckily, they have Beverley locked up for under a million and a few other players they hope to turn into rotation pieces (Isaiah Canaan, Troy Daniels, Terrance Jones, Donatas Motiejunas) all locked up for a grand total of around $5 million. So basically, they'd have 9 players in the range of $75 million. Not an ideal situation, that's already a few million above the tax, and that's before bringing in a few more minimum salary pieces to round out the roster. The likely resolution? Trading Parsons for multiple cheaper role players. This way, they still retain Parsons' value by getting something back for him and Parsons gets a bigger deal because Houston has no real cap limitations to what they can pay him. All they'd have to do is what until December 1st, or agree to a sign and trade, and this becomes possible. Beverley likely leaves in a year, but they have a likely lottery pick from New Orleans to replace him. In other words, you're looking at a roster of Dwight, Harden, LeBron, two solid role players acquired for Parsons (who has quite a bit of trade value, he's at least comparable to Danilo Gallinari in 2011 who was the main piece in a deal for Carmelo), Beverley, Jones, Canaan, Daniels, Motiejunas and a few minimum salary guys (with Ray Allen as a prime suspect considering how much he wants to keep playing with LeBron). The New Orleans pick replaces Beverley in a year, but overall that team is a really nice mix of overall basketball skills, star power and rotation players. It's an extraordinary team top to bottom, one that does a little bit of everything and should be easily the league's best defensive team even with Harden in the lineup.

As for the Lowry situation, it looks good on paper, but it doesn't really make much sense from a basketball standpoint. Lowry is notoriously moody, someone multiple coaches have clashed with, not someone you'd want to bring in to supposedly revitalize your aging contender. He also had his breakout year in a contract year and on a team that let him control the ball. Neither of those circumstances are replicable in Miami. Finally, Miami doesn't really ask much of their point guards, so signing Lowry doesn't make much sense schematically either. The real prize would be Marcin Gortat, because they need someone to protect the rim. However, unless Miami is willing to severely overpay, he's not leaving Washington. The Wizards just had their best year in while, and they will absolutely overpay to keep that team together. So basically, Miami CAN get Lowry if they want, but that leaves Miami with seven players under contracts, three of which are point guards, one of which is a big man who couldn't get minutes in the playoffs, one of which is 32 and aging in dog years with his bum knees, and absolutely no more cap space to bring in other players (remember, they have no mid-level exception considering they're opening free agency with this much cap space). They'd have to rely on minimum salary free agents to fill out their bench as nobody would give them a viable bench piece for Cole (who's value has never been lower). Even if they manage to do so, none of this solves the defensive issues that allowed San Antonio to absolutely feast on them in the Finals. So basically, Miami's situation is totally up in the air. Houston's is not.

Well, I mean we are free to our own opinions so obviously nothing we say is totally correct.

2) I don't believe Harden is a better fit than Wade. We're judging Wade as a second fiddle to Bron compared to Harden who is a 1st option on his team. Hard to compare that when you consider that Wade gave up a lot to play with Bron. Of course, Harden takes more pressure off James but can they co-exist as well as Wade/James? I agree with Howard being a better match with James than Bosh, though.

4) Wade was being defended by Paul George and Lance Stephenson, though. These two are much better defenders than Batum and Pacers were much better than Portland on defense as well. Wade gets to the rim, faces Hibbert. Harden gets to the rim, gets Aldridge. Completely different circumstances and there is no doubt it is easier to score against Portland than Pacers. Harden played 6 games and would have gone against Spurs and if they got past Spurs, against OKC. I don't think he's going to improve any better against those two teams. Wade played 15 games before playing the Spurs and averaged 19/4/4 on 53% shooting. That is much better than 26/6/5 on 38%. Not to mention Harden played 44 minutes compared to Wade's 36 minutes.

5) I still don't get how you keep Parsons/Beverley longer than a year. These two are the most notable support on this team. The rest are average or below average bench players. Howard grabbing 22 million and Harden snagging in 16 million. That is about give or take, 13 million more than Wade/Bosh. 13 million more to sign better talent that Houston doesn't have. I don't even think MIA should go after Gortat/Lowry. I changed my mind as soon as they got Napier because Cole/Napier IMO is sufficient enough to hold the PG position. Miami's problem isn't the PG position. It was their lack of depth because their bench would be good 3-4 years ago, not now. Gortat is 30 years old and I don't feel he's going to be worth the money he'll receive long term. If it were up to me, focus strictly on the supporting cast. Start Bosh, sign Jermaine O'Neal, Wade, Napier, and James. bench: Cole, Andersen, Marion, Ariza, Allen, James Jones, Udonis Haslem, Shaun Livingston, Mo Williams, Jodie Meeks? I mean there are many solid players out there that can boost Miami's bench. 2015-2016 is an amazing free agency with front court talent being on the market. They should find their center in that year, not now.

beasted86
06-29-2014, 09:18 AM
If you can't consider the improvement of an incredibly young team, then no, we can't have the Cleveland discussion. But as for Houston, really? You're going to bring up the playoffs? Because last I checked, Miami stormed through the ****** Eastern Conference and then got absolutely decimated by San Antonio. The team that beat Houston, Portland, was better than any team Miami beat. Had Houston and Miami switched conferences, the Rockets absolutely win the East. I don't know what happens to Miami in the West, but we saw two teams really push San Antonio: an eight seed and a team playing with an injured rim third guy. Both did significantly better against the Spurs than the Heat did. Miami plays in a weaker conference. They were not the second best team in basketball last year. Don't let their appearance in the Finals fool you.

And yes, Harden, Howard, Parsons and Beverley IS better than ANYTHING Riley could possibly do short of Carmelo (and that's just talent-wise, frankly I don't see the fit). Look at it this way. Harden is significantly better than Wade, Howard is better than Bosh AND serves a far more vital function and Beverley is better than Cole/Napier. So basically, in order for Miami to catch up, they'd need to find someone in free agency or in a trade that is significantly better than Chandler Parsons and will remain so for the life of the contract. Such a player does not exist with the exception of Carmelo and Eric Bledsoe (fat chance Phoenix lets him go to Miami). Please, if you have a scenario in free agency that leads to a better opportunity than Houston, speak up. They'd have to find a rim protector (the only real one out there is Gortat) and they'd have to sign another top level role player (Lowry/Deng) just to make it a conversation. No freaking way Washington is letting either Gortat or Ariza go after the season they just had and the weakness of the East, they'll massively overpay, they think they're contenders. Considering the season Lowry just had and the fact that Toronto has no reasonable alternative, they'll probably end up paying him $13 or $14 million per year to stay. Maybe more. If you want to match that, go ahead, you'll have a six man roster and three of them will be point guards. It's not a matter of me not having faith in Riley, because he's an extraordinary GM, but the free agents it would take for him to vault Miami past Houston in terms of having a better overall team to entice LeBron with simply don't exist. Could Riley do some interesting things to give Miami a better shot to win next year's title? Yea, definitely. Those things just won't involve building a team that is better than what Houston has now (obviously not including LeBron). Oh, and on top of that, Houston has a likely lottery pick next year to add another strong piece. Houston has more talent, Houston is younger, and Houston is a far better basketball fit because they actually have a rim protector and they have someone who can run the offense and take pressure off of LeBron (a legitimate factor considering how much he wore down in the Finals). There is no scenario in free agency where Miami builds a better non-LeBron-included team than Houston. It cannot happen. Is Miami better than Houston with LeBron? Even that's up in the air depending on what else the Rockets do. Will Miami end up with a better record? Maybe, but that's only because they're in the East. Stick a LeBron-led Rockets team in this Eastern conference and they might win 73.

Again, I'm not saying LeBron is absolutely leaving or even that I think he will, but there is absolutely no question that there are better basketball situations for him out there. We haven't even discussed the Clippers (who would be no matter what), the Bulls (who would be assuming Rose is healthy) or the Lakers (who could be with some maneuvering). Miami is just not the best basketball situation for LeBron. It might be the best total situation depending on what he wants, but it absolutely is not the best basketball situation.

No, we can't have a conversation about how a team supposedly improves from being terrible enough to win the draft lottery to supposedly being the best championship ready supporting cast. It's a total waste of time discussion based on fantasy rather than actual impact. This goes for the Bulls and Lakers also. If we're supposedly going to judge Wade only on his appearance in the Finals and Bosh based on a given role he's playing and under no circumstances can Wade trim down some more and Bosh become more incorporated as a scoring option, then to be equal all around, we can't assume Rose or Kobe improve any from the putrid stats they put up last season. So for the basis of discussion and debate of current roster standings the HEAT flat out trump the Cavs, Bulls, and Lakers, and that's before any additional talent is even added.

The Rockets have a supposed rim projector (make that two of them last playoffs) that were lit up for multiple 30+ games in a playoff that they lost with home court advantage. Aldridge and Lilliard did whatever they pleased on offense with this supposed rim protector on the Rockets. This supposed second ball handler who is so much better than Wade just finished his second straight playoff showing shooting in the 30 percent range. Wade had never, ever shot in the 30s in a playoff series, that's throughout all his seasons playing, whether injured or healthy, whether that's playing with Shaq as his second option on a contender or morbid 21% shooting Jermaine O'Neal on a crappy rebuilding team. I find it amusing you state almost as fact that the Rockets are a supposed great team that would win 73 games in the East and crush everyone on their way to the Finals which has better defensive teams than the West (Rockets were 10-6 against East playoff teams BTW) and would have the primary scoring option shooting an ungodly terrible percentage.

I think your perception of both teams is warped to be honest.

Quinnsanity
06-29-2014, 05:33 PM
No, we can't have a conversation about how a team supposedly improves from being terrible enough to win the draft lottery to supposedly being the best championship ready supporting cast. It's a total waste of time discussion based on fantasy rather than actual impact. This goes for the Bulls and Lakers also. If we're supposedly going to judge Wade only on his appearance in the Finals and Bosh based on a given role he's playing and under no circumstances can Wade trim down some more and Bosh become more incorporated as a scoring option, then to be equal all around, we can't assume Rose or Kobe improve any from the putrid stats they put up last season. So for the basis of discussion and debate of current roster standings the HEAT flat out trump the Cavs, Bulls, and Lakers, and that's before any additional talent is even added.

The Rockets have a supposed rim projector (make that two of them last playoffs) that were lit up for multiple 30+ games in a playoff that they lost with home court advantage. Aldridge and Lilliard did whatever they pleased on offense with this supposed rim protector on the Rockets. This supposed second ball handler who is so much better than Wade just finished his second straight playoff showing shooting in the 30 percent range. Wade had never, ever shot in the 30s in a playoff series, that's throughout all his seasons playing, whether injured or healthy, whether that's playing with Shaq as his second option on a contender or morbid 21% shooting Jermaine O'Neal on a crappy rebuilding team. I find it amusing you state almost as fact that the Rockets are a supposed great team that would win 73 games in the East and crush everyone on their way to the Finals which has better defensive teams than the West (Rockets were 10-6 against East playoff teams BTW) and would have the primary scoring option shooting an ungodly terrible percentage.

I think your perception of both teams is warped to be honest.

No, I just think you're vastly overrating what Pat Riley can do in free agency. It's not a matter of whether or not he's capable of luring great players, it's a matter of the players Miami needs simply not existing on the market. Maybe if Tyson Chandler were still a Knick and they could orchestrate a trade to absorb his salary it'd be possible, but otherwise the rim protector they so sorely need is not out there. The closest thing they could get for one, Marcin Gortat, is probably staying in Washington on a vastly overpaid contract. The most likely outcome here is that they use up most of their extra space on Kyle Lowry. Ultimately, you're deciding between these rosters:

Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Kyle Lowry, Norris Cole, Shabazz Napier, Udonis Haslem

James Harden, Dwight Howard, Chandler Parsons (or whatever they trade Parsons for), Patrick Beverley, Terrance Jones, Donatas Motiejunas, Troy Daniels

Kyrie Irving, Andrew Wiggins, Dion Waiters, Tristan Thompson, Anderson Varejao, Jarrett Jack, Anthony Bennett

Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson, Jimmy Butler, Doug McDermott

Whatever the hell the Clippers do

I get throwing the Bulls out because of Rose, but why would you hitch your wagon to that Miami team? Wade is 32 and aging in dog years, we just watched what happens when you give him the rest necessary to perform in the playoffs: it wears LeBron down. Kyle Lowry doesn't solve the issues Miami had last year, and we don't even know what he'd be in a non-contract year and in a situation where he isn't controlling the ball (though we do know he's incredibly moody and could harm team chemistry). Houston has more talent right now, has a likely lottery pick coming from New Orleans and has a hefty trade exception from Omer Asik ready to add even more talent if necessary. Cleveland has so much young talent that is ready to blossom, adding LeBron right as all of those guys develop into the players that they're going to be would make them incredibly dangerous.

You're only looking at what happened last year, in a VERY small sample size with Harden. Saying that you'd rather play with Wade for the next four-five years than Harden is simply a dumb opinion. I can't argue with dumb opinions. Bosh over Howard is slightly more defensible due mainly to Howard's back issues, but still the overwhelming majority of basketball people would take Howard. As for Cleveland, Kyrie Irving is about as perfect a fit to play with LeBron as there is in the league. Considering the extra space of having LeBron around, he might hit 45% of his three-pointers. LeBron's greatest gift is creating open shots for others, and Kyrie's shooting perfectly takes advantage of that. They also have another star defender (Wiggins, who may not be a superstar but will be an excellent defender from day one), another scorer who can create his own shot (Waiters), and two legitimate rebounders (Thompson and Varejao) compared to Miami's none. And by the way, Cleveland retains cap space even if they sign a max deal, so they could go out and add another decent piece. Maybe you could say that staying in Miami presents the best basketball opportunity for this upcoming season. I'd disagree with it, but I guess there's an argument to be made for it. But to say that sticking around on this Miami team with likely have very little depth and has two other stars hitting the wrong side of their prime is a better long-term opportunity than Houston or Cleveland, where their stars are in or near their primes and they have far more in the way of depth (or at least avenues to getting depth) is just ridiculous.

Will LeBron re-sign in Miami? Absolutely. It looks like a near-lock at this point. But it's not the best basketball opportunity. We're going to see that next year regardless of who they add.

LOOTERX9
06-29-2014, 06:49 PM
these 3 guys are really soft mentally. they gonna follow each other around rest of thier career's while tryin to add thier friend melo to the squad. lebron looks weak doing this stuff.