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View Full Version : Who was the best defensive point guard of all time?



JasonJohnHorn
06-28-2014, 08:20 AM
I tried to make a little but longer of a list, because this is so much harder to gauge than the center spot I think.

I'm allowing multiple votes, but please only pick your top three.


I have included a couple of guys that might seem odd. Darrell Walker for one, but that guy was an amazing defender and use to give Jordan fits in practice when he was on the Bulls. Players from the era would say he was one of the best defenders at the position

I've also included Stockton because even though he wasn't a lock-down one-on-one defender, there was nobody in the game who was a better at guarding the passing lanes and he was an amazing team defender and was always quick to move to help with a double team and still get back to his man when the ball got moved out.

I've also included Oscar Robertson even though he's got not All-Defensive teams spots. I am not old enough to have seen him play, but I know from listening to guys from back in the day, many said he was the best defender in the league, or the best defender in the back court, even though FRazier seems to have gotten more love at the time.

I'm also including Jerry West because though he played 'shooting guard' he often defended the point guard from what I hear, and he and Goodrich usually split ball handling duties (they were running with two shooting guards like the 96/97/98 Bulls.


My apologies if I missed anybody you liked, but please vote other in that case and share your thoughts on whoever I missed below.

GiantsSwaGG
06-28-2014, 08:22 AM
No Gary Payton?

eso
06-28-2014, 08:23 AM
His nick name was the Glove.. You can close the thread now :)

JasonJohnHorn
06-28-2014, 08:26 AM
No Gary Payton?


You responded before the poll was up!

GP is on there, don't worry. He's easily in my top threee.

ewing
06-28-2014, 08:36 AM
These questions are tough b/c we talk about offensive so much that guys with a less complete games get left off the list. I think Greg Anthony and Linsey Hunter were two the better defensive points i've ever seen. Henrick is also bad ***. I voted for GP and Mo- not sure though

DR_1
06-28-2014, 08:47 AM
Gary Payton for me.

WadeKobe
06-28-2014, 09:06 AM
This is Jason Kidd, and quite easily for me.

hidalgo
06-28-2014, 09:23 AM
Gary Payton

IndyRealist
06-28-2014, 10:11 AM
By reputation, Payton. But probably Dennis Johnson.

ManningToTyree
06-28-2014, 10:20 AM
The glove. Clyde deserves mention as well

kdspurman
06-28-2014, 10:38 AM
I'd say the Glove

Matter.
06-28-2014, 10:49 AM
Dennis Johnson.

ghettosean
06-28-2014, 11:46 AM
Payton

Alayla
06-28-2014, 01:29 PM
Come on man.... GP

FlashBolt
06-28-2014, 01:39 PM
GP but Ron Harper was pretty good too. Could probably put Kidd up there as well but Glove for sure.

slashsnake
06-29-2014, 12:39 AM
Went with Frazier but the Glove is a great choice. Winning defensive MVP in an era dominated by great defensive bigs.

But yeah part is legend of what he did. Game 4 of the finals, GP finally feeling better off of his injury (pulled calf or something). George Karl makes the call for him to guard Jordan the rest of the way. Jordan scores 23, 26, and 22, shooting 37% the rest of the way. That was an epic matchup.

FlashBolt
06-29-2014, 12:48 AM
GP said Stockton was tougher to guard than Jordan, btw.

SILVER SEAVER
06-29-2014, 01:29 AM
I have to go by the era in which I started watching which was the 80's to the present and I think DJ. Thta's what made Jordan's 63 point performance against the Celtics in the playoffs at the Boston Garden so impressive. You can't deny either what GP did during his prime. He gave Jordan fits in that Finals.

SILVER SEAVER
06-29-2014, 01:30 AM
GP said Stockton was tougher to guard than Jordan, btw.

Stockton was a tough little SOB.

Clippersfan86
06-29-2014, 01:33 AM
Payton for sure, D.J a close second. Kidd was great but not on their level.

Kashmir13579
06-29-2014, 01:34 AM
Glove and Frazier

nandovelez
06-29-2014, 01:34 AM
Walt Frazier and Kidd

Kashmir13579
06-29-2014, 01:35 AM
GP said Stockton was tougher to guard than Jordan, btw. He said it was his OPINION... lol

Gary gave a Solid speech.

Kashmir13579
06-29-2014, 01:43 AM
Kidd occurs to me if you factor that he guarded 3/4 different positions over the course of his career. On switches he wasn't the type to get bullied by bigger post players. I just wouldn't consider him a lock down guy like GP.

Kashmir13579
06-29-2014, 01:48 AM
These questions are tough b/c we talk about offensive so much that guys with a less complete games get left off the list. I think Greg Anthony and Linsey Hunter were two the better defensive points i've ever seen. Henrick is also bad ***. I voted for GP and Mo- not sure though i love the Lindsay Hunter shout out.

TheMightyHumph
06-29-2014, 02:03 AM
I'd go with Frazier and Micheal Ray

PowerHouse
06-29-2014, 02:34 AM
I voted for the glove but gotta give a big shout out to Sidney Moncreif the only PG in history with multiple DPOYs.

FlashBolt
06-29-2014, 03:29 AM
He said it was his OPINION... lol

Gary gave a Solid speech.

I fail to see your argument. Of course it is his opinion.. That is why I said GP said Stockton. Clearly indicates that GP felt Stockton was tougher for him to guard.

CoaChad
06-29-2014, 03:53 AM
Pretty easy choice....Payton was one of the greatest defenders ever period, even late in his career. I am surprised that Moncreif hasn't gotten any votes...too far back I guess.

FlashBolt
06-29-2014, 04:02 AM
Pretty easy choice....Payton was one of the greatest defenders ever period, even late in his career. I am surprised that Moncreif hasn't gotten any votes...too far back I guess.

Moncreif had a very short career compared to the others listed, though. Not to mention that the NBA only began handing out DPOY in 1982 I believe. Milwaulkee as a team was a great defensive team in general. I think Paul and Stock deserve more votes, though. Stock was just an annoying rat of a defender and Paul has been impressive with his defense these couple of years. I really feel Payton's defense is a bit overrated. They played really dirty back then so it's not shocking that some of those dirty plays were regarded as defensive prowess. A lot of what he did defensively would not be allowed in today's era.

bgdreton
06-29-2014, 05:25 AM
Moncreif had a very short career compared to the others listed, though. Not to mention that the NBA only began handing out DPOY in 1982 I believe. Milwaulkee as a team was a great defensive team in general. I think Paul and Stock deserve more votes, though. Stock was just an annoying rat of a defender and Paul has been impressive with his defense these couple of years. I really feel Payton's defense is a bit overrated. They played really dirty back then so it's not shocking that some of those dirty plays were regarded as defensive prowess. A lot of what he did defensively would not be allowed in today's era.

So that doesn't even matter everyone back then played within the guidelines of the rules or what was allowed. As do the players of this era do the same. Just because there was a bit more hand checking in the past your going to knock a guy bc that's not what they do today. Thats like saying the guys who sacked the QB before the sack was a stat aren't great sack artist just because the rules are different. I'm sorry that's a stupid arguement. It's not Payton's fault everyone played as such at that time. Since you feel he is overrated, is "playing dirty" your only argument for the stance you have? Do you have any other explanations why you feel this way? Stats maybe or is it just an shot in the dark opinion with zero substance.... For goodness sake the fact he guarded Jordan on the biggest stage and giving up 2-3 inches and at least 20 or so pounds and held his own was amazing in itself. I wait....

THE MTL
06-29-2014, 05:28 AM
Can we just skip to the 2nd best defensive PG of all time? This is pretty much Gary Payton /end thread.

FlashBolt
06-29-2014, 05:42 AM
So that doesn't even matter everyone back then played within the guidelines of the rules or what was allowed. As do the players of this era do the same. Just because there was a bit more hand checking in the past your going to knock a guy bc that's not what they do today. Thats like saying the guys who sacked the QB before the sack was a stat aren't great sack artist just because the rules are different. I'm sorry that's a stupid arguement. It's not Payton's fault everyone played as such at that time. Since you feel he is overrated, is "playing dirty" your only argument for the stance you have? Do you have any other explanations why you feel this way? Stats maybe or is it just an shot in the dark opinion with zero substance.... For goodness sake the fact he guarded Jordan on the biggest stage and giving up 2-3 inches and at least 20 or so pounds and held his own was amazing in itself. I wait....

Jesus, calm down. I agreed that GP is the best defensive PG but stop acting as if some of his defensive plays were legal defensive basketball plays. Lots of pushing and shoving and wrongful acts that were not known as BASKETBALL PLAYS. I don't recall that a good defender will shove, grab jerseys and arms, and commit dirty plays. Those aren't basketball plays to me. When I said they played dirty, I only meant that some defensive plays were just bully ball. Just cause you can push someone doesn't mean you're a good defender. Maybe you read my post wrong but in no shape or form did I not say Payton wasn't a great defender. Check back a couple of posts; he is undoubtedly the best defender for a PG.

Kashmir13579
06-29-2014, 05:54 AM
He said it was his OPINION... lol

Gary gave a Solid speech.

I fail to see your argument. Of course it is his opinion.. That is why I said GP said Stockton. Clearly indicates that GP felt Stockton was tougher for him to guard. I'm not arguing. I'm referencing a joke Payton at his induction.

Hotone1401
06-29-2014, 05:55 AM
These questions are tough b/c we talk about offensive so much that guys with a less complete games get left off the list. I think Greg Anthony and Linsey Hunter were two the better defensive points i've ever seen. Henrick is also bad ***. I voted for GP and Mo- not sure though

This.

DallasTrilla23
06-29-2014, 08:35 AM
GP. He's the only point guard to win DPOY

KnicksorBust
06-29-2014, 10:22 AM
GP. He's the only point guard to win DPOY

Alvin Robertson... and arguably Sidney Moncrief although he's more of a SG. :)

My list:

#5.) John Stockton
#4.) Jason Kidd
#3.) Walt Frazier
#2.) Dennis Johnson
#1.) Gary Payton

SLY WILLIAMS
06-29-2014, 11:44 AM
Alvin was very good but he played a lot of SG.

Mookie was very good

DJ was strong in the post for a PG and he had good hands but he was not the quick on his feet later in his career.

I'm a bit surprised Sugar Ray and Derrick Harper were not in the poll. They both could really hound guys early in their careers. Sugar had the speed and strength. Harper played very physical defense.

Nick O
06-29-2014, 12:41 PM
The Glove

bgdreton
06-29-2014, 12:59 PM
Jesus, calm down. I agreed that GP is the best defensive PG but stop acting as if some of his defensive plays were legal defensive basketball plays. Lots of pushing and shoving and wrongful acts that were not known as BASKETBALL PLAYS. I don't recall that a good defender will shove, grab jerseys and arms, and commit dirty plays. Those aren't basketball plays to me. When I said they played dirty, I only meant that some defensive plays were just bully ball. Just cause you can push someone doesn't mean you're a good defender. Maybe you read my post wrong but in no shape or form did I not say Payton wasn't a great defender. Check back a couple of posts; he is undoubtedly the best defender for a PG.

Lol ok. You do realize on offense you could do that as well with your off hand right. Look at Jordan's last memorable shot he shoved Russell like 5 ft to the right with his off hand vs the Jazz. That was the way the game was played on both sides of the ball. How is someone overratted if as you just said, "he is undoubtedly the best defender for a PG"? My bad didn't mean to seem like I was super hyped that just the way I type lol. Anyway close thread it's too obvious unless we were suppose to rank them and I missed that...

Hawkamania
06-29-2014, 01:11 PM
His nick name was the Glove.. You can close the thread now :)

And... we're done here.

FlashBolt
06-29-2014, 01:23 PM
Lol ok. You do realize on offense you could do that as well with your off hand right. Look at Jordan's last memorable shot he shoved Russell like 5 ft to the right with his off hand vs the Jazz. That was the way the game was played on both sides of the ball. How is someone overratted if as you just said, "he is undoubtedly the best defender for a PG"? My bad didn't mean to seem like I was super hyped that just the way I type lol. Anyway close thread it's too obvious unless we were suppose to rank them and I missed that...

I hope you know overrated/underrated can apply to anyone regardless of their status. You can be MJ and be overrated just like you can be GP and be overrated. I said he is undoubtedly the best defender for a PG but there was a lot of pushing, shoving, and grabbing that have nothing to do with being a basketball player with a basketball motive. I can find a 300 lb guy to push and shove players around, doesn't mean they are great defenders. As for Jordan's shot against Russell, I think we can all agree that was a foul that was clearly not called because MJ was the golden boy for NBA. Read about it, Nike's owner had an amazing relationship with the higher upper of NBA. They marketed the crap out of MJ and that usually meant making MJ look at good as possible. In no way is that a basketball play, though. I think people get confused with what basketball really is. Don't get me wrong, Jordan is the GOAT.

JJ_JKidd
06-29-2014, 08:31 PM
I tried to make a little but longer of a list, because this is so much harder to gauge than the center spot I think.

I'm allowing multiple votes, but please only pick your top three.


I have included a couple of guys that might seem odd. Darrell Walker for one, but that guy was an amazing defender and use to give Jordan fits in practice when he was on the Bulls. Players from the era would say he was one of the best defenders at the position

I've also included Stockton because even though he wasn't a lock-down one-on-one defender, there was nobody in the game who was a better at guarding the passing lanes and he was an amazing team defender and was always quick to move to help with a double team and still get back to his man when the ball got moved out.

I've also included Oscar Robertson even though he's got not All-Defensive teams spots. I am not old enough to have seen him play, but I know from listening to guys from back in the day, many said he was the best defender in the league, or the best defender in the back court, even though FRazier seems to have gotten more love at the time.

I'm also including Jerry West because though he played 'shooting guard' he often defended the point guard from what I hear, and he and Goodrich usually split ball handling duties (they were running with two shooting guards like the 96/97/98 Bulls.


My apologies if I missed anybody you liked, but please vote other in that case and share your thoughts on whoever I missed below.

Ze Glove 20

asandhu23
06-30-2014, 05:16 PM
Jerry West was pretty good. Jason Kidd was awesome. Iconic defensive PG, however, is still Gary Dwayne Payton.

PowerHouse
06-30-2014, 10:46 PM
Alvin Robertson... and arguably Sidney Moncrief although he's more of a SG. :)


Sidney Moncrief actually played a lot more point than Robertson. Robertson only played the 2 his whole career, except one year he was playing a lot of 3 believe it or not.

Jarvo
06-30-2014, 10:56 PM
Dumbass phone voted for Kidd, But it's GP The Glove Gary Payton!