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View Full Version : If you were a GM, would you EVER trade a guy you picked to the Spurs?



JasonJohnHorn
06-27-2014, 11:24 AM
Recent trade (nothing big, granted), went down like this:

Spurs, 76ers swap second-round picks

San Antonio Spurs get:
No. 54 Nemanja Dangubic

Philadelphia 76ers get:
No. 58 pick Jordan McRae
No. 60 pick Cory Jefferson


Now... I have to say, if I got a call from the Spurs, and they said "We want that guy you drafted in the late first or second round" the first thing I'm going to do is HANG UP THE PHONE! If the SPURS want the guy I drafted, I'm guessing that I made the right pick. They've picked up Manu, Parker and Leonard in similar situations (drafting late themselves or making a trade), and they've also drafted a lot of other great guys late in the draft. Their scouting is hands down the BEST in the league (only Jerry West could rival the Spurs as a scout).

So, that said.... if the Spurs were trying to pry a late pick away from you, would you do it? Or would you just take that as a sign that you did your job right and hang onto the guy?

torocan
06-27-2014, 11:33 AM
Hard to say. The Spurs also have the BEST development system in the NBA, and have a system that emphasizes strengths differently than most other teams (high BBallIQ, character and passing skills over athleticism). They also are exceptionally good at picking players that will minimize their weaknesses while playing within the Spurs schemes.

They're usually not looking for a home run, but lots of singles and doubles that once in a while turn into a home run.

If you're another team, you might feel great that the Spurs value the player (and may wonder what they're seeing that you aren't), but you also have to ask yourself not only whether you actually can develop the player to their potential, but whether they can help you win with your current system over a different set of players.

In the end, if you can't maximize the player and you won't utilize the player, then you're probably better off making a trade for players that you CAN maximize and utilize.

Just as Diaw was a complete waste of a player with Woodson as a coach (Iso heavy offense), there are many players that would languish on other teams as their organizations and schemes won't utilize their skill sets effectively and may actually emphasize their weaknesses.

So yes, you have to consider the trade on a value for value basis. I'm going to be more concerned about whether it improves or worsens my own team than whether the Spurs pick up what is most likely another plug and play role player.

ManRam
06-27-2014, 11:36 AM
You still gotta trust yourself, your colleagues and the evaluations the organization has made. In the back of my head I'd be hesitant because the Spurs are amazing, but still...you gotta do what you feel is right.


We're talking late second round picks here. Yes, they've hit on a few (Manu, TP, etc.), but the odds are the guys they like that late in the draft aren't panning out. And the Spurs have lost trades like these before (see below).

Since Manu in 1999, these are the late picks by the Spurs have made. Corey Hightower, Randy Holcomb, Romain Sato, Sergei Karaulov, Damir Markota, Girogos Printezis, James Gist, Jack McClinton, Ryan Richards, Adam Hanga, Marcus Denmon and Deshaun Thomas. I'm pretty sure not a singly one of them outside of Holcomb ever stepped on an NBA court.

A few exceptions:

~Nando De Colo (2009) was a good pick.

~Luis Scola was drafted by San Antonio in 2002 late in the second, but couldn't get out of his contract overseas. Eventually the Rockets once traded Jackie Butler for Scola before Scola had ever played in the NBA. Who won that trade?

~Goran Dragic was traded on draft night by the Spurs for Malik Hairston and the 48th pick. Who won that one?


Odds are none of those 3 amount to anything. But the Spurs aren't infallible late in the second round...mainly because no one really ever hits at all anyways. They've traded late second rounders away and lost .

JasonJohnHorn
06-27-2014, 12:09 PM
You still gotta trust yourself, your colleagues and the evaluations the organization has made. In the back of my head I'd be hesitant because the Spurs are amazing, but still...you gotta do what you feel is right.


We're talking late second round picks here. Yes, they've hit on a few (Manu, TP, etc.), but the odds are the guys they like that late in the draft aren't panning out. And the Spurs have lost trades like these before (see below).

Since Manu in 1999, these are the late picks by the Spurs have made. Corey Hightower, Randy Holcomb, Romain Sato, Sergei Karaulov, Damir Markota, Girogos Printezis, James Gist, Jack McClinton, Ryan Richards, Adam Hanga, Marcus Denmon and Deshaun Thomas. I'm pretty sure not a singly one of them outside of Holcomb ever stepped on an NBA court.

A few exceptions:

~Nando De Colo (2009) was a good pick.

~Luis Scola was drafted by San Antonio in 2002 late in the second, but couldn't get out of his contract overseas. Eventually the Rockets once traded Jackie Butler for Scola before Scola had ever played in the NBA. Who won that trade?

~Goran Dragic was traded on draft night by the Spurs for Malik Hairston and the 48th pick. Who won that one?


Odds are none of those 3 amount to anything. But the Spurs aren't infallible late in the second round...mainly because no one really ever hits at all anyways. They've traded late second rounders away and lost .

Great points! Duncan noted that when the Spurs draft, there is a 50/50 chance he'll ever meet the player.

But look at who they do pick or trade for: Leonard, Dragic, Mills, Green, George Hill, Tony Parker, Manu, Leonard, Splitter, Beno Udrih, Barbossa, and Scola, I'd say those guys would make up a pretty good line-up that is an All-Star away from contender. Over the course of 12 years, getting that much talent in the first and second round is pretty impressive by any standard. Nobody has done that well.


But you have a good point, the the Spurs are giving you back two players that THEY picked for one player YOU picked, you might still be in a REALLY good situation!

And not all their picks pan out, and some get stuck overseas for a few years (Scola and Splitter notably).

JasonJohnHorn
06-27-2014, 12:13 PM
Hard to say. The Spurs also have the BEST development system in the NBA, and have a system that emphasizes strengths differently than most other teams (high BBallIQ, character and passing skills over athleticism). They also are exceptionally good at picking players that will minimize their weaknesses while playing within the Spurs schemes.

They're usually not looking for a home run, but lots of singles and doubles that once in a while turn into a home run.

If you're another team, you might feel great that the Spurs value the player (and may wonder what they're seeing that you aren't), but you also have to ask yourself not only whether you actually can develop the player to their potential, but whether they can help you win with your current system over a different set of players.

In the end, if you can't maximize the player and you won't utilize the player, then you're probably better off making a trade for players that you CAN maximize and utilize.

Just as Diaw was a complete waste of a player with Woodson as a coach (Iso heavy offense), there are many players that would languish on other teams as their organizations and schemes won't utilize their skill sets effectively and may actually emphasize their weaknesses.

So yes, you have to consider the trade on a value for value basis. I'm going to be more concerned about whether it improves or worsens my own team than whether the Spurs pick up what is most likely another plug and play role player.

Fantastic points! Their player development is AMAZING. Regardless of who they pick, they usually find a way to make them successful in their system. Bowen, Roger Mason and Gary Neal are all great examples. They have either been cut by other teams, or simply didn't play as well in other systems. The player development guys they have are great, and Pop's system accommodates players' strengths. A guy like Leonard, for instance, would have been fighting for minutes with Granger and George and would likely have been watching the finals at home and would be begging for a contract heading into next year instead of hoisting up an MVP trophy.

jerellh528
06-27-2014, 12:23 PM
I would trust my own board. Spurs have had just as many misses as other. If they were an all knowing club, they'd win the finals every year, which they don't. So I'm going to go with trust my scouts and my draft board. They don't have a better eye, they just develop talent greater than most.

dannyy08
06-27-2014, 12:37 PM
I guess that depends... Am I the Cavaliers Scouting Department...

ManRam
06-27-2014, 02:42 PM
Great points! Duncan noted that when the Spurs draft, there is a 50/50 chance he'll ever meet the player.

But look at who they do pick or trade for: Leonard, Dragic, Mills, Green, George Hill, Tony Parker, Manu, Leonard, Splitter, Beno Udrih, Barbossa, and Scola, I'd say those guys would make up a pretty good line-up that is an All-Star away from contender. Over the course of 12 years, getting that much talent in the first and second round is pretty impressive by any standard. Nobody has done that well.


But you have a good point, the the Spurs are giving you back two players that THEY picked for one player YOU picked, you might still be in a REALLY good situation!

And not all their picks pan out, and some get stuck overseas for a few years (Scola and Splitter notably).

I only focused on later picks because of the trade you were referencing. If we're talking first rounders, then yeah...I'd be scared shitless trying to trade with them.

hugepatsfan
06-27-2014, 03:25 PM
If you don't trust your own decisions then you're doomed whether you trade with the Spurs or not. You can't last like that.

beasted86
06-27-2014, 05:56 PM
Because they can find players that fit their system greatly doesn't mean they are great players who are a must keep.

Like didn't they win a couple championships with scrub front court players next to Duncan and then when those same guys went to other teams they were total bums? Malik Rose and that European guy come to mind. I know Bruce Bowen was not good at all with the HEAT, and I'm not sure he had similar impact, maybe with only a very thin mold of teams.

It happens. There's also guys they couldn't get to truly fit their system but were not just good, but all-star caliber on other teams. Rodman, S-Jax Turkoglu, etc.. come to mind.

JasonJohnHorn
06-27-2014, 06:04 PM
I would trust my own board. Spurs have had just as many misses as other. If they were an all knowing club, they'd win the finals every year, which they don't. So I'm going to go with trust my scouts and my draft board. They don't have a better eye, they just develop talent greater than most.

They haven't had a pick higher than 20th in 16 years and they've managed to pull out 2 finals MVPS and two all-stars, three All-NBA team players, and several All-Rookie team guys... which is FAR more that most teams have picked with MULTIPLE lottery picks.

Do they miss sometimes? Of course! They usually pick 28 or later, but the fact that they've gotten THAT much talent with such low picks demonstrates that they know what the fawk they are doing.

cvburg
06-27-2014, 07:26 PM
And all can say is how perfect does kyle Anderson fit their team..my god in this draft not a guy who screams spurs more than him

Jamiecballer
06-27-2014, 07:37 PM
Yeah, probably not

king4day
06-27-2014, 08:08 PM
When people use Barbosa and Dragic as comparisons for who the Spurs drafted for another team, it doesn't mean they had plans to draft the player for themselves.

The Suns drafted Rondo for Boston but from what I've heard, they never would have drafted him had they kept the pick. We don't know if the same would be said for Deng or Nate Robinson.

SPURSFAN1
06-27-2014, 08:24 PM
Easy to pick bad players when you can't even crack a lottery pick in 17 years. If getting a starter out of 4 very late late picks, you already made it.

Hawkamania
06-27-2014, 08:55 PM
I would trust my own board. Spurs have had just as many misses as other. If they were an all knowing club, they'd win the finals every year, which they don't. So I'm going to go with trust my scouts and my draft board. They don't have a better eye, they just develop talent greater than most.

This is exactly how I feel. If you trust another teams scouting and front office more than your own, you're not going to have a job for very long.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-27-2014, 11:29 PM
If Bruno was picked by the Spurs, it wouldn't have been news to anyone.

MrfadeawayJB
06-27-2014, 11:33 PM
The trade was probably completed before the sixers selected that guy. They made the pick for the spurs I guarantee it