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View Full Version : Report: Dwayne Wade Likely to Opt OUT and Take Paycut



Nikeman
06-22-2014, 01:34 PM
http://fansided.com/2014/06/21/report-dwyane-wade-likely-opt-contract-take-discount/#!2b5T5


From the New York Daily News:

Dwyane Wade is likely to opt out of his final two seasons, at $41.5 million, and probably accept a deal from the Heat worth $50 million-$55 million over four years to help the team open up cap space.

This is BIG, BIG news for the Miami HEAT in keeping LeBron, and to be honest, I think this means that there is a 100% chance LeBron stays.

I would have been ecstatic if D-Wade had taken a 5 year 60-65 mill deal, but 5 years @ 50-55 mill is 10-11 mill cap hit per year. If the HEAT back load the contract somewhat, Wade may have a cap hit of 7-8 mill this year instead of 20. Thus, Wade alone may allow the HEAT to get at least 10-12 million in cap space.

If Bosh follows suit, and takes somewhat of a paycut, from 21 mill to say 14-15 mill per year, and LeBron takes a 2-3 million paycut to 18 mill per year, Miami may have 16-18 million in cap space to add talent, essentially a max contract worth.

I am thinking this means they are going to attempt to make a strong push for Carmelo, which to be honest I would strongly hate. This would bring out LeBron critics in full force, in saying he needs 3 superstars around him to win, but also in that Carmelo and LeBron play the same position, and this means Bosh would become a full time center.

Instead, i am praying Miami uses this cap space to sign high quality role players,

Gortat @ 8-10m
Meeks @ 5-7m
Collison @ 2-4m

That right there gives Miami a much more complete team, and I personally believe that Meeks is a must for the HEAT. He needs to be on this team as Miami needs a very competent SG to play in games during the regular season where D-Wade is resting and he is a great, great 3 pt shooter and scorer.

kobe4thewinbang
06-22-2014, 01:36 PM
Hopefully D-Wade gets surgery/therapy on his knees, too, because even at 10 million he is overpaid. He might be loved by the Heat for being their hero with Shaq, but he can't contribute jack these days. Never thought LBJ was going anywhere else, but with this pay cut, Miami needs to capitalize and sign some new blood to boost the bench, especially if Bosh jumps ship.

GiantsSwaGG
06-22-2014, 01:40 PM
He will still be overpaid

Nikeman
06-22-2014, 01:41 PM
Hopefully D-Wade gets surgery/therapy on his knees, too, because even at 10 million he is overpaid. He might be loved by the Heat for being their hero with Shaq, but he can't contribute jack these days. Never thought LBJ was going anywhere else, but with this pay cut, Miami needs to capitalize and sign some new blood to boost the bench, especially if Bosh jumps ship.

If Wade takes such a significant paycut, that means Bosh is staying bro. Bosh has been the most vocal of the big 3 in saying he wants them to stay together and has already said he is willing to take a pay cut for this team to remain in tact.

Nikeman
06-22-2014, 01:42 PM
He will still be overpaid

A 19 ppg scorer shooting 55% along with getting 5 rebounds and 5 assists a game is not overpaid at 10 mill per season. Seeing as how Omer Asik and Jeremy Lin make 15 mill next season, At 10 million, Wade is an amazing contract.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
06-22-2014, 01:48 PM
so in another words...Lebron needs more help? geez

Nikeman
06-22-2014, 01:50 PM
so in another words...Lebron needs more help? geez

If you watched the NBA Finals this year, it was 1 vs 5. So yes, he does.

Cal827
06-22-2014, 01:50 PM
Oh, come on! :mad:


Although it makes a lot of sense with how his knees are, but goddamn. Miami is so damn lucky to be the ones to draft such a loyal player in 2003. Freaking like 9 more million to spend on Free Agency.

Now, even if Lebron Leaves, the team will still likely be contenders next year, cause (I'm under the assumption that Bosh is staying, after all of his comments during the year), they will have tons of cap space to build around.

Great.... Now I have to worry about Lowry leaving :mad:

Riodagoat
06-22-2014, 01:52 PM
Honestly, he would still be overpaid even with that salary. However, I'm not surprised that that would be his price tag.

As far as Carmelo goes, I don't want him in Miami. He doesn't fill in the gaps that this team needs. I'd rather spend the money on a quality big man and a great 6th man.

Chronz
06-22-2014, 01:54 PM
This contract wont end well but it does help in the short term

Muttman73
06-22-2014, 01:55 PM
Wade needs to take a seat

FriedTofuz
06-22-2014, 01:55 PM
Kyle Lowry staying in Toronto, regardless if the Heat can offer him the same money the raptors are offering.

abe_froman
06-22-2014, 01:55 PM
good for the heat(though it'll hurt on the back end),stupid for him

WadeCounty
06-22-2014, 01:56 PM
I only want Kevin Love :shrug: and some replacement for wade at the starting line up and force wade off the bench

Chronz
06-22-2014, 01:57 PM
so in another words...Lebron needs more help? geez

lemme guess, ur one of those who still thinks Miami has a big 3 huh?

WadeCounty
06-22-2014, 01:59 PM
If this does go down I can see Lebron opting in to his final 2 years on his contract, get paid the big bucks and hit the road after as wades contract the final 3 years will look awful paying 10m per for a guy that can't beat anyone off the dribble anymore. Lebron will be 32 at that point, he'll need younger players around him

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-22-2014, 02:00 PM
I say go all in for Melo. The NBA needs "a bad guy" to root against. It makes it fun.

Nikeman
06-22-2014, 02:00 PM
Its amazing how people don't think Dwayne Wade is worth 10 million a year. To put this in perspective, Ben Gordon, Kris Humphries, Javale McGee, Gallinari, Tiago Splitter, David Lee, Andrew Bogut, Emeka Okafor, Carlos Boozer, Rudy Gay etc etc are just some players who made more than 10 million this season with some making 15+.

Again, aside from the NBA Finals, Wade played a great season when on the court. In the ECF he averaged 20 on 55% shooting. He missed 30 games yes, but when on the court, for the most part he was an effective piece of the puzzle.

Its amazing how people are coming and saying he's still overpaid, and failing to overlook that the guy is scheduled to make 20 million dollars next season and is sacrificing half his salary to keep the team together. Tell me how many players would do that.

I was his biggest critic after the NBA finals and thought there was no way in hell he turns down 20 million for next season, but D-Wade proved me wrong again.

GiantsSwaGG
06-22-2014, 02:00 PM
A 19 ppg scorer shooting 55% along with getting 5 rebounds and 5 assists a game is not overpaid at 10 mill per season. Seeing as how Omer Asik and Jeremy Lin make 15 mill next season, At 10 million, Wade is an amazing contract.

He has to miss 50 games just to average 18ppg.

And aging SG with glass knees and guaranteed to miss 30+ games, yeah I say he's severely overpaid

Nikeman
06-22-2014, 02:02 PM
He has to miss 50 games just to average 18ppg.

And aging SG with glass knees and guaranteed to miss 30+ games, yeah I say he's severely overpaid

First off, it was 30. Second of all, he was coming off knee surgery, and third, I think he could have played many of those games but it was the Miami HEAT management who would take him out of the line-up to rest him.

I doubt he misses 30+ games this season again, and hopefully this off-season he realizes he needs to work on a consistent jump shot from long range and develops a better jump shot making him much more effective.

WadeCounty
06-22-2014, 02:03 PM
Its amazing how people don't think Dwayne Wade is worth 10 million a year. To put this in perspective, Ben Gordon, Kris Humphries, Javale McGee, Gallinari, Tiago Splitter, David Lee, Andrew Bogut, Emeka Okafor, Carlos Boozer, Rudy Gay etc etc are just some players who made more than 10 million this season with some making 15+.


Well half of them I wouldn't pay 10m either :shrug: Just because one GM was desperate and offered a ridiculous contract doesn't mean they deserve the amount they make

siix
06-22-2014, 02:04 PM
lol some of you guys are funny.....no way in hell melo or love are going to the heat....heat probably (and should) sign lowry or gortat.

Nikeman
06-22-2014, 02:05 PM
Well half of them I wouldn't pay 10m either :shrug: Just because one GM was desperate and offered a ridiculous contract doesn't mean they deserve the amount they make

The difference is, they were offered ridiculous contracts and took them.

Wade meanwhile has 20 mill for the next two years and is sacrificing that for the good of the HEAT and keeping them together. Rare to find players these days in professional sports willing to give up half of their salary for the good of the team.

goingfor28
06-22-2014, 02:06 PM
Heat forum?

Nikeman
06-22-2014, 02:07 PM
lol some of you guys are funny.....no way in hell melo or love are going to the heat....heat probably (and should) sign lowry or gortat.

Gortat, Lowry/Darren Collison, Jodie Meeks, and some defensive young athletic wings is the ideal off-season for the HEAT.

Procision
06-22-2014, 02:09 PM
I would expect bosh to take a paycut as well 16-18 per.

Nikeman
06-22-2014, 02:11 PM
I would expect bosh to take a paycut as well 16-18 per.

Wouldn't be shocked if LeBron did as well to be honest, if Wade can sacrifice 10m a year for the HEAT, Bosh 5-6, LeBron could afford to take a 2-3 mill pay cut as well.

FlashBolt
06-22-2014, 02:14 PM
This is huge news for Miami, wow. If this does happen, expect Bosh to take the same deal and putting LeBron at 20 million, that would be around 46 million - more than enough to get Lowry, Melo, or some key pieces. I think Miami should liquidate their salary rather than spend it all on one big player. Melo isn't the answer to their questions. They need a solid big man, a solid PG, and a bench that can boost the lead up with Wade/Bosh while Bron takes a rest.

Nikeman
06-22-2014, 02:17 PM
This is huge news for Miami, wow. If this does happen, expect Bosh to take the same deal and putting LeBron at 20 million, that would be around 46 million - more than enough to get Lowry, Melo, or some key pieces. I think Miami should liquidate their salary rather than spend it all on one big player. Melo isn't the answer to their questions. They need a solid big man, a solid PG, and a bench that can boost the lead up with Wade/Bosh while Bron takes a rest.

Hopefully the learned from the Spurs this NBA Finals.

Parker started Game 5, 0-8 and by the time he made his first FG, San Antonio was already up 20. The depth of that team just destroyed Miami.

Procision
06-22-2014, 02:22 PM
I don't think bosh will take the same paycut as wade, a cut yes but not that deep.

GiantsSwaGG
06-22-2014, 02:25 PM
I don't think bosh will take the same paycut as wade, a cut yes but not that deep.

Bosh will anything he's told. He's the 3rd wheel and he's comfortable
With it.

Hawkeye15
06-22-2014, 02:27 PM
so in another words...Lebron needs more help? geez

did you watch the finals hahaha?

Nikeman
06-22-2014, 02:28 PM
Bosh will anything he's told. He's the 3rd wheel and he's comfortable
With it.

Bosh could take 5/75 ideally.

GiantsSwaGG
06-22-2014, 02:29 PM
Bosh could take 5/75 ideally.

Pretty much. He's actually worth that maybe even less

tr3ymill3r
06-22-2014, 02:34 PM
So if he takes less money that will make him healthy again? Nope.

BALLER R
06-22-2014, 02:43 PM
Miami doesn't even need another star to be honest. They just need a better supporting cast. They need a quality big man that isn't afraid to be in the post. They also gotta utilize their players better. Bosh is basically just a 3pt shooter now.

jerellh528
06-22-2014, 02:49 PM
A 19 ppg scorer shooting 55% along with getting 5 rebounds and 5 assists a game is not overpaid at 10 mill per season. Seeing as how Omer Asik and Jeremy Lin make 15 mill next season, At 10 million, Wade is an amazing contract.

But but but, I thought Lebron has no help.

Hawkeye15
06-22-2014, 02:50 PM
Miami doesn't even need another star to be honest. They just need a better supporting cast. They need a quality big man that isn't afraid to be in the post. They also gotta utilize their players better. Bosh is basically just a 3pt shooter now.

I think Spo needs to break out of his box as well, and use the offense differently. They could for sure use an upgrade at PG, getting someone who can share some ball handling duties and give the defense different looks.

bgdreton
06-22-2014, 02:56 PM
But but but, I thought Lebron has no help.

Exactly he has help they were just not utilized well. Wade can't just Iso everyone anymore and Bosh is better than just a 3pt shooter.

jericho
06-22-2014, 02:56 PM
so in another words...Lebron needs more help? geez

If you watched the NBA Finals this year, it was 1 vs 5. So yes, he does.

Did the previous 2 yrs they played1 vs 5 as well?

Phenomenonsense
06-22-2014, 03:02 PM
http://fansided.com/2014/06/21/report-dwyane-wade-likely-opt-contract-take-discount/#!2b5T5



This is BIG, BIG news for the Miami HEAT in keeping LeBron, and to be honest, I think this means that there is a 100% chance LeBron stays.

I would have been ecstatic if D-Wade had taken a 5 year 60-65 mill deal, but 5 years @ 50-55 mill is 10-11 mill cap hit per year. If the HEAT back load the contract somewhat, Wade may have a cap hit of 7-8 mill this year instead of 20. Thus, Wade alone may allow the HEAT to get at least 10-12 million in cap space.

If Bosh follows suit, and takes somewhat of a paycut, from 21 mill to say 14-15 mill per year, and LeBron takes a 2-3 million paycut to 18 mill per year, Miami may have 16-18 million in cap space to add talent, essentially a max contract worth.

I am thinking this means they are going to attempt to make a strong push for Carmelo, which to be honest I would strongly hate. This would bring out LeBron critics in full force, in saying he needs 3 superstars around him to win, but also in that Carmelo and LeBron play the same position, and this means Bosh would become a full time center.

Instead, i am praying Miami uses this cap space to sign high quality role players,

Gortat @ 8-10m
Meeks @ 5-7m
Collison @ 2-4m

That right there gives Miami a much more complete team, and I personally believe that Meeks is a must for the HEAT. He needs to be on this team as Miami needs a very competent SG to play in games during the regular season where D-Wade is resting and he is a great, great 3 pt shooter and scorer.

You have no idea how cap space works obviously. Wade alone, taking a 9 million dollar pay cut, would still not get you under the cap and thus would not actually help you in any way. IF Wade takes a pay cut, IF Lebron takes your 2 million dollar pay cut, and IF Bosh takes your 4 million dollar pay cut, then that will leave you with like 5 million in cap space. The only other people that could be cut would be Justin Hamilton, saving .8 million. Haslem could decline his option and save another 4.6 million. The absolute most, using your own numbers, that the heat could have would be 10.4 million in cap space, with only 5 people on team: Lebron, Bosh, Wade, Andersen, and Cole. With 10 million dollars you would have to fill out the entire bench. Enjoy.

Jamiecballer
06-22-2014, 03:03 PM
This concerns me as a raptor/lowry supporter. Damn you wade, damn you to hell.

bucketss
06-22-2014, 03:04 PM
awful lot of money to spend on a role player.

NYKNYGNYY
06-22-2014, 03:09 PM
I only want Kevin Love :shrug: and some replacement for wade at the starting line up and force wade off the bench

U want mj to hop in a time machine n join you to? Screw it magic has money to I'm sure he can jump in one to

Nikeman
06-22-2014, 03:10 PM
You have no idea how cap space works obviously. Wade alone, taking a 9 million dollar pay cut, would still not get you under the cap and thus would not actually help you in any way. IF Wade takes a pay cut, IF Lebron takes your 2 million dollar pay cut, and IF Bosh takes your 4 million dollar pay cut, then that will leave you with like 5 million in cap space. The only other people that could be cut would be Justin Hamilton, saving .8 million. Haslem could decline his option and save another 4.6 million. The absolute most, using your own numbers, that the heat could have would be 10.4 million in cap space, with only 5 people on team: Lebron, Bosh, Wade, Andersen, and Cole. With 10 million dollars you would have to fill out the entire bench. Enjoy.

I think you don't know how the cap works tbh. Haslem and Cole will be the only two contracts on our team next season.

Haslem at 4.5 and Cole at 2. 6.5m in cap for 2014-2015. Wade @ 10, Bosh @ 15 and LBJ @ 18-20, puts our cap space at 50, giving 15m or so to resign free agents.

Now, say that Miami signed the other players first, we can even go over our cap I believe to sign our own players, LeBron, Wade, and Bosh as we have bird rights.

piaband
06-22-2014, 03:16 PM
Hahahhaha. I love that Miami fans are buying into this. There is NO way wade opts out. This is going to be hilarious.

d00d
06-22-2014, 03:18 PM
Instead, i am praying Miami uses this cap space to sign high quality role players,

God doesn't give 2 ***** about your prayers about the NBA.

FlashBolt
06-22-2014, 03:19 PM
These LeBron haters saw the Finals and still want to argue that James HAD help. He had help in the playoffs from Wade, Bosh wasn't even good in the playoffs. Point said, Wade/Bosh didn't play their $20 million worth and that is a huge problem considering every team is salary capped these days. How did you watch the Finals and still make an argument that James had help? No player outside Rashard Lewis played consistent other than James. James averaged 28 points, 8 rebounds, on 58% shooting. I don't care how you put it but to blame it on him and not his team is a joke. He came to play, his team didn't. With that being said, Wade is worth the $13 million ONLY if he can come back with passion. He played with no passion and looked helpless at times. It would be a pain to see Wade take $13 million, miss 40% of the games, and still not be able to show up ready to play when it matters. Bosh should take 13-15 million. Granted, he also needs to stop waiting in the three point line as if that is all he can do. I'm sure Spo will keep his job so it is up to Bosh to make it a mission to post up more. If I were Miami, I would look at Livingston rather than Lowry. Much cheaper and IMO, a matchup nightmare for any PG. Forget about Melo. That would only disappoint Bosh/Wade considering Melo demands the ball at a high rate. They need a serviceable big man who can dominate the paint.. aka Greg Monroe. Resign Allen, make UD take $3 million, James Jones, get Marion or Ariza, get Jermaine Oneal. Sign Morrow or RIP, basically a SG who can score while Wade is missing all those games.


Starter

James
Wade
Bosh
Monroe
Livingston

Cole
Allen Sign for $3 million
Jones
Udonis
Marion or Ariza
Jermaine O'neal
RIP or Morrow

Solid team but of course, the financial aspect of things will fall into place. James has to take a paycut as well. Probably in the 17 area so they can sign Monroe/Livingston and a solid cast.

bucketss
06-22-2014, 03:19 PM
God doesn't give 2 ***** about your prayers about the NBA.

why are you always so upset?

AddiX
06-22-2014, 03:20 PM
Is this source legit?

Would be major news if it was true. I don't believe it though.

THE MTL
06-22-2014, 03:21 PM
I think bosh needs to follow suit. And his contact should be about the same as well. He has been a disappointment this whole season as well

GiantsSwaGG
06-22-2014, 03:21 PM
God doesn't give 2 ***** about your prayers about the NBA.

Why so mad thou?

Nikeman
06-22-2014, 03:26 PM
These LeBron haters saw the Finals and still want to argue that James HAD help. He had help in the playoffs from Wade, Bosh wasn't even good in the playoffs. Point said, Wade/Bosh didn't play their $20 million worth and that is a huge problem considering every team is salary capped these days. How did you watch the Finals and still make an argument that James had help? No player outside Rashard Lewis played consistent other than James. James averaged 28 points, 8 rebounds, on 58% shooting. I don't care how you put it but to blame it on him and not his team is a joke. He came to play, his team didn't. With that being said, Wade is worth the $13 million ONLY if he can come back with passion. He played with no passion and looked helpless at times. It would be a pain to see Wade take $13 million, miss 40% of the games, and still not be able to show up ready to play when it matters. Bosh should take 13-15 million. Granted, he also needs to stop waiting in the three point line as if that is all he can do. I'm sure Spo will keep his job so it is up to Bosh to make it a mission to post up more. If I were Miami, I would look at Livingston rather than Lowry. Much cheaper and IMO, a matchup nightmare for any PG. Forget about Melo. That would only disappoint Bosh/Wade considering Melo demands the ball at a high rate. They need a serviceable big man who can dominate the paint.. aka Greg Monroe. Resign Allen, make UD take $3 million, James Jones, get Marion or Ariza, get Jermaine Oneal. Sign Morrow or RIP, basically a SG who can score while Wade is missing all those games.


Starter

James
Wade
Bosh
Monroe
Livingston

Cole
Allen Sign for $3 million
Jones
Udonis
Marion or Ariza
Jermaine O'neal
RIP or Morrow

Solid team but of course, the financial aspect of things will fall into place. James has to take a paycut as well. Probably in the 17 area so they can sign Monroe/Livingston and a solid cast.

I believe Greg Monroe is restricted, as much as I would love him, no way Detroit lets him walk, especially to us, and especially if we do not offer him a max contract.

That is why I believe Gortat is our more realistic option.

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-22-2014, 03:26 PM
But really the New York Post? It seems people believe everything they read. Didnt they make a commercial about this? The dude that was a French model. This sounds exactly like it.

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-22-2014, 03:30 PM
These LeBron haters saw the Finals and still want to argue that James HAD help. He had help in the playoffs from Wade, Bosh wasn't even good in the playoffs. Point said, Wade/Bosh didn't play their $20 million worth and that is a huge problem considering every team is salary capped these days. How did you watch the Finals and still make an argument that James had help? No player outside Rashard Lewis played consistent other than James. James averaged 28 points, 8 rebounds, on 58% shooting. I don't care how you put it but to blame it on him and not his team is a joke. He came to play, his team didn't. With that being said, Wade is worth the $13 million ONLY if he can come back with passion. He played with no passion and looked helpless at times. It would be a pain to see Wade take $13 million, miss 40% of the games, and still not be able to show up ready to play when it matters. Bosh should take 13-15 million. Granted, he also needs to stop waiting in the three point line as if that is all he can do. I'm sure Spo will keep his job so it is up to Bosh to make it a mission to post up more. If I were Miami, I would look at Livingston rather than Lowry. Much cheaper and IMO, a matchup nightmare for any PG. Forget about Melo. That would only disappoint Bosh/Wade considering Melo demands the ball at a high rate. They need a serviceable big man who can dominate the paint.. aka Greg Monroe. Resign Allen, make UD take $3 million, James Jones, get Marion or Ariza, get Jermaine Oneal. Sign Morrow or RIP, basically a SG who can score while Wade is missing all those games.


Starter

James
Wade
Bosh
Monroe
Livingston

Cole
Allen Sign for $3 million
Jones
Udonis
Marion or Ariza
Jermaine O'neal
RIP or Morrow

Solid team but of course, the financial aspect of things will fall into place. James has to take a paycut as well. Probably in the 17 area so they can sign Monroe/Livingston and a solid cast.

Are all these players supposed to take the vet minimum? Once a team gets to the proposed $63 million dollar cap, They can only sign players for about $1 millIon per.

Nikeman
06-22-2014, 03:30 PM
Are all these players supposed to take the vet minimum? Once a team gets to the proposed $63 million dollar cap, They can only sign players for about $1 millIon per.

MLE and mMLE

IgglesFanInCO
06-22-2014, 03:32 PM
I think Gortat should be their priority this offseason (assuming they retain LBJ)

If they can get Gortat and Lowry and maybe add a wing with consistent range.... they are right back to being favorites

goingfor28
06-22-2014, 03:33 PM
wouldn't be shocked if lebron did as well to be honest, if wade can sacrifice 10m a year for the heat, bosh 5-6, lebron could afford to take a 2-3 mill pay cut as well.
heat

Kevj77
06-22-2014, 03:35 PM
good news for Miami, especially if Bosh takes a paycut as well. Am I the only one that thinks Lebron will not take a paycut? I think he will want a raise he is 29 in his absolute peak the best player in the world if he signs a 3-4 year deal that will take him close to the end of his peak as a player.

FlashBolt
06-22-2014, 03:38 PM
Are all these players supposed to take the vet minimum? Once a team gets to the proposed $63 million dollar cap, They can only sign players for about $1 millIon per.

That's why I said of course the financial aspects of things have to fall into place.

Nikeman
06-22-2014, 03:39 PM
I think Gortat should be their priority this offseason (assuming they retain LBJ)

If they can get Gortat and Lowry and maybe add a wing with consistent range.... they are right back to being favorites

Don't think we can sign two players capable of making 10m+ on the open market as both Gortat and Lowry are capable of.

Ideally we sign Gortat, Darren Collison and Jodie Meeks along with some other defensive players, (Marion, Ariza) etc.

Our number one focus should be Gortat by far, then a capable PG, and then finding help for Wade at the 2 guard position (Meeks).

I wouldn't be terribly upset if we re-signed Chalmers, but I think Collison would be a great fit in Miami.

FlashBolt
06-22-2014, 03:39 PM
I believe Greg Monroe is restricted, as much as I would love him, no way Detroit lets him walk, especially to us, and especially if we do not offer him a max contract.

That is why I believe Gortat is our more realistic option.

I think so too but I really think Detroit should let go of Monroe. They need a better backcourt.

Nikeman
06-22-2014, 03:42 PM
good news for Miami, especially if Bosh takes a paycut as well. Am I the only one that thinks Lebron will not take a paycut? I think he will want a raise he is 29 in his absolute peak the best player in the world if he signs a 3-4 year deal that will take him close to the end of his peak as a player.

2-3 million for LeBron doesn't mean anything, he would take winning any day. He is smart with his money, knows where to invest and makes tons from endorsements, hell the guy has a god damn APP for him. He made as much money he's made the past two seasons in the Beats deal with Apple where he was rumored to get 30 million.

I think if Wade is willing to sacrifice such a significant amount, Bosh should follow, and LBJ will see his friends sacrifice and may take a small paycut himself.

Tony_Starks
06-22-2014, 03:43 PM
Wade knows the Heat will take care of him for life. Mourning, Juwan Howard, and Tim Hardaway are still on the payroll for Petes sake. Riley will take care of him.

However Bosh taking a paycut would be extremely dumb. The way he is being used is driving down his value and killing his last big payday. Take the money and run homey!

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-22-2014, 03:45 PM
MLE and mMLE

If the big 3 opt out of their contracts, The Heat would be under the cap and would not be allowed any exceptions.

FYL_McVeezy
06-22-2014, 03:46 PM
http://fansided.com/2014/06/21/report-dwyane-wade-likely-opt-contract-take-discount/#!2b5T5



This is BIG, BIG news for the Miami HEAT in keeping LeBron, and to be honest, I think this means that there is a 100% chance LeBron stays.

I would have been ecstatic if D-Wade had taken a 5 year 60-65 mill deal, but 5 years @ 50-55 mill is 10-11 mill cap hit per year. If the HEAT back load the contract somewhat, Wade may have a cap hit of 7-8 mill this year instead of 20. Thus, Wade alone may allow the HEAT to get at least 10-12 million in cap space.

If Bosh follows suit, and takes somewhat of a paycut, from 21 mill to say 14-15 mill per year, and LeBron takes a 2-3 million paycut to 18 mill per year, Miami may have 16-18 million in cap space to add talent, essentially a max contract worth.

I am thinking this means they are going to attempt to make a strong push for Carmelo, which to be honest I would strongly hate. This would bring out LeBron critics in full force, in saying he needs 3 superstars around him to win, but also in that Carmelo and LeBron play the same position, and this means Bosh would become a full time center.

Instead, i am praying Miami uses this cap space to sign high quality role players,

Gortat @ 8-10m
Meeks @ 5-7m
Collison @ 2-4m

That right there gives Miami a much more complete team, and I personally believe that Meeks is a must for the HEAT. He needs to be on this team as Miami needs a very competent SG to play in games during the regular season where D-Wade is resting and he is a great, great 3 pt shooter and scorer.

If that's the case then Bosh and LBJ are going to opt-out and re-sign there, giving Riley the flexibility to retool the roster, as they should. It hurts Bron's legacy to keep jumping ship. He chose South Beach so he should finish his career there.....

Tony_Starks
06-22-2014, 03:47 PM
Since the Heat were a tax paying team this last season, the have the lower mle of 3 million. They don't have a mILE but even if they did it's only with $500,000 more than the vet minimum.

Quick off topic question, what is the Lakers MLE situation?

Nikeman
06-22-2014, 03:48 PM
Wade knows the Heat will take care of him for life. Mourning, Juwan Howard, and Tim Hardaway are still on the payroll for Petes sake. Riley will take care of him.

However Bosh taking a paycut would be extremely dumb. The way he is being used is driving down his value and killing his last big payday. Take the money and run homey!

Exactly, Wade knows he's taken care of for life, but Bosh has said many times and has been the most vocal about the big 3 staying and said himself he'd take a pay cut for it.

As soon as Wade's career is over, he will be in the HEAT management in some way shape or form.

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-22-2014, 03:53 PM
Quick off topic question, what is the Lakers MLE situation?

We don't have any. We are under the cap

*Superman*
06-22-2014, 03:55 PM
What if he opted out and Miami didn't resign him? Lol.

kobe4thewinbang
06-22-2014, 03:59 PM
Whatever happens, I hope Bosh practices shooting. That dude missed so many open shots.

Now that Ray Allen can't hit open shots either, maybe he should hang it up.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-22-2014, 04:18 PM
I think Wade and Bosh will end up taking the same contract Pierce got a few years ago which was 4/60.

PraiseJesus
06-22-2014, 04:18 PM
So Melo opts out and Wade take a paycut on the same day....


Melo is going to the Heat, what BS....

They need to remove all the prohibitive Free agency rules

How can the owners claim they are losing money when the CLIPPERS just sold for 2 billion???

the NBA is unwatchable anymore

Dade County
06-22-2014, 04:31 PM
I hope you guys do know that Pat is going to try the same thing, like in 2010.

the HEAT are going to try to get Melo, Lowry & Gortat... This is not some sort of bad joke; bulls, rockets, dallas, raptors, & whoever fan base, are going to be really upset at the end of the day.

The league will try to step in & resolve the situation.

lakerfan85
06-22-2014, 04:36 PM
I hope you guys do know that Pat is going to try the same thing, like in 2010.

the HEAT are going to try to get Melo, Lowry & Gortat... This is not some sort of bad joke; bulls, rockets, dallas, raptors, & whoever fan base, are going to be really upset at the end of the day.

The league will try to step in & resolve the situation.

Did the salary cap get raised to $100 million per team??

bleedprple&gold
06-22-2014, 04:37 PM
I hope you guys do know that Pat is going to try the same thing, like in 2010.

the HEAT are going to try to get Melo, Lowry & Gortat... This is not some sort of bad joke; bulls, rockets, dallas, raptors, & whoever fan base, are going to be really upset at the end of the day.

The league will try to step in & resolve the situation.

They can't afford all 3. Melo alone will take up all the cap space. They would be better off with Lowry and Gortat instead of Melo. They need a PG and a C badly.

Darc Mind
06-22-2014, 04:42 PM
I hope you guys do know that Pat is going to try the same thing, like in 2010.

the HEAT are going to try to get Melo, Lowry & Gortat... This is not some sort of bad joke; bulls, rockets, dallas, raptors, & whoever fan base, are going to be really upset at the end of the day.

The league will try to step in & resolve the situation.

You make us other Heat fans look like complete idiots. You dont have a crystal ball, you're not in the Heat organization. Just stop.

Nikeman
06-22-2014, 04:49 PM
You make us other Heat fans look like complete idiots. You dont have a crystal ball, you're not in the Heat organization. Just stop.

Dude chill, he was joking.

Do people on this forum not understand sarcasm?

Darc Mind
06-22-2014, 04:52 PM
You make us other Heat fans look like complete idiots. You dont have a crystal ball, you're not in the Heat organization. Just stop.

Dude chill, he was joking.

Do people on this forum not understand sarcasm?

Reread his post. Where do you see sarcasm?

Nikeman
06-22-2014, 04:54 PM
Reread his post. Where do you see sarcasm?

The sarcasm comes in the fact that any knowledgeable basketball fan knows Miami cannot get those three players with the cap space.

Seems like a troll

lakerboy
06-22-2014, 04:55 PM
Why don't they all just opt in?

They have a self-proclaimed top 10 PG anyway, Mario Chalmers haha

Dade County
06-22-2014, 05:08 PM
They can't afford all 3. Melo alone will take up all the cap space. They would be better off with Lowry and Gortat instead of Melo. They need a PG and a C badly.


If Wade and Bosh take a pay cut (not saying that they should; I think Wade should go for a near max contract); and Melo... I think Pat can grab Lowry & Gortat easy.



You make us other Heat fans look like complete idiots. You dont have a crystal ball, you're not in the Heat organization. Just stop.

You are assuming that I follow the majority way of thinking. Also you most be assuming that I think that Lbj/business entity will be on the HEAT roster next season.

I don't care or no what he is going to do, so I do not factor him in anything.


The sarcasm comes in the fact that any knowledgeable basketball fan knows Miami cannot get those three players with the cap space.

Seems like a troll

We do not no if Wade, Bosh & Melo will take less to play with each other. I am just saying that Pat might pull it of again, and get everyone discounted.

I am not trolling, I am considering history when it comes to this matter.

RocketsWin2013
06-22-2014, 05:13 PM
Um..........The guy from the NYDN that reported this, is one of the biggest reporting blackholes in sports...Heh...


I've done some research and everything he's ever reported, literally, has never happened. He has a twtter account, non-verified, with just 600 followers..You search his name on twtter and it's just people mocking him....

This is not even thread-worthy tbh. Nobody else has even reported this either. WOJ fromYahoo said this morning, everything looks the same as before....

Wait until somebody credible reports this to actually believe it.

Darc Mind
06-22-2014, 05:15 PM
Reread his post. Where do you see sarcasm?

The sarcasm comes in the fact that any knowledgeable basketball fan knows Miami cannot get those three players with the cap space.

Seems like a troll

How do I know if hes knowledgeable? Didn't sound it from that post.

Dade County
06-22-2014, 05:15 PM
Did the salary cap get raised to $100 million per team??

I am factoring the possibility of Wade, Bosh & Melo taking less; and relying on Pat to convince Lowry and Gortat to take a little less or market value.

Wade, Bosh, Melo take like 11-13mil a year... Wade & Bosh colluded before, who's to say that it can't happen again.

Just pointing out history.

Darc Mind
06-22-2014, 05:19 PM
They can't afford all 3. Melo alone will take up all the cap space. They would be better off with Lowry and Gortat instead of Melo. They need a PG and a C badly.


If Wade and Bosh take a pay cut (not saying that they should; I think Wade should go for a near max contract); and Melo... I think Pat can grab Lowry & Gortat easy.



You make us other Heat fans look like complete idiots. You dont have a crystal ball, you're not in the Heat organization. Just stop.

You are assuming that I follow the majority way of thinking. Also you most be assuming that I think that Lbj/business entity will be on the HEAT roster next season.

I don't care or no what he is going to do, so I do not factor him in anything.


The sarcasm comes in the fact that any knowledgeable basketball fan knows Miami cannot get those three players with the cap space.

Seems like a troll

We do not no if Wade, Bosh & Melo will take less to play with each other. I am just saying that Pat might pull it of again, and get everyone discounted.

I am not trolling, I am considering history when it comes to this matter.

With a post like yours, I have every right to assume.

You said every fan of every other franchise will be pissed. There was no "might".

Maybe we should just see what happens. Pretty crazy, right?

FlashBolt
06-22-2014, 05:19 PM
I am factoring the possibility of Wade, Bosh & Melo taking less; and relying on Pat to convince Lowry and Gortat to take a little less or market value.

Wade, Bosh, Melo take like 11-13mil a year... Wade & Bosh colluded before, who's to say that it can't happen again.

Just pointing out history.

I'm sorry but you have established yourself as a horrific poster if you can't use logic or be realistic.

goingfor28
06-22-2014, 05:22 PM
I am factoring the possibility of Wade, Bosh & Melo taking less; and relying on Pat to convince Lowry and Gortat to take a little less or market value.

Wade, Bosh, Melo take like 11-13mil a year... Wade & Bosh colluded before, who's to say that it can't happen again.

Just pointing out history.
lololololol

Crackadalic
06-22-2014, 05:30 PM
I am factoring the possibility of Wade, Bosh & Melo taking less; and relying on Pat to convince Lowry and Gortat to take a little less or market value.

Wade, Bosh, Melo take like 11-13mil a year... Wade & Bosh colluded before, who's to say that it can't happen again.

Just pointing out history.

They are not taking 11-13 mil a year just to win. Basketball is one of the most underpaid profession in sports for superstar players. Why the hell would that take that amount? Wade yeah but lebron bosh and even melo hell no

Verbal Christ
06-22-2014, 05:31 PM
Why does Heat fan think its a given that these guys keep taking less money? Mission accomplished in MIA, now they don't have much time left to pad the account. If CHI blows away Wade with a deal he'd be gone. Same for Bosh, one huge deal and he's gone. Lebron is ring hunting if he latches on with a team on the threshold he could start to catch some of the greats. Miami had a great run, but all good things come to an end.

Dade County
06-22-2014, 05:32 PM
With a post like yours, I have every right to assume.

You said every fan of every other franchise will be pissed. There was no "might".

Maybe we should just see what happens. Pretty crazy, right?

Agreed... But I don't think I wrote in absolutes.

It's just a possibility.


I'm sorry but you have established yourself as a horrific poster if you can't use logic or be realistic.

I brought up that it is a possibility that Pat might pull it off again. I am basing this off of history, but you write that I am not using logic or being realistic.

I don't know how they will work out the contracts, you got be there.

IndyRealist
06-22-2014, 05:36 PM
1) New York Daily News, the source of the blurb, is one step up from a tabloid.
2) If you read the article, it's a 3 line blurb at the end of random NBA notes, with no sources whatsoever.
3) How does it help the Heat's cap space for Wade to take $6M less per year?
4) No one else is reporting this that I see.

Dade County
06-22-2014, 05:39 PM
They are not taking 11-13 mil a year just to win. Basketball is one of the most underpaid profession in sports for superstar players. Why the hell would that take that amount? Wade yeah but lebron bosh and even melo hell no

I never factor in Lbj for anything.

And I don't know if they would take that amount; I am just saying if Pat could pull that off, they could get other players in here.

I also wrote in an earlier post, that I think Wade should try to get as much money as he could.


Why does Heat fan think its a given that these guys keep taking less money? Mission accomplished in MIA, now they don't have much time left to pad the account.

it is just a possibility.



If CHI blows away Wade with a deal he'd be gone. Same for Bosh, one huge deal and he's gone.

How do you know that?

Couldn't you replace Chicago with any team, and say they would be gone?



Lebron is ring hunting if he latches on with a team on the threshold he could start to catch some of the greats.

Who cares.




Miami had a great run, but all good things come to an end.

I agree... But that doesn't mean that the HEAT time is up.

ink
06-22-2014, 05:40 PM
so in another words...Lebron needs more help? geez

If you watched the NBA Finals this year, it was 1 vs 5. So yes, he does.

It was 1vs5 because the Spurs successfully made it 1vs5. It had kittle to do with "help".

Badluck33
06-22-2014, 05:40 PM
Well,

hypothetically....

If Wade does take a pay cut to $10m per and (HYPOTHETICALLY) LBJ and CB opt in then Miami salary sits at $60M still with only 7 guys on the payroll.

They are going to need more help than Wade to take the paycut....

lol.... :-/

Raps18-19 Champ
06-22-2014, 05:43 PM
Lol if Lebron was never on the Heat, people wouldn't even complain about the pay cut. But because Wade's willing to help his franchise by taking a lesser deal (same deals Duncan and other over the hill stars got), it's a bad thing despite him actually still being overpaid?

ink
06-22-2014, 05:44 PM
so in another words...Lebron needs more help? geez

did you watch the finals hahaha?

Seriously not you too? Did you watch the masterful coaching and D of the Spurs? Good lord.

Dade County
06-22-2014, 05:46 PM
Lol if Lebron was never on the Heat, people wouldn't even complain about the pay cut. But because Wade's willing to help his franchise by taking a lesser deal (same deals Duncan and other over the hill stars got), it's a bad thing despite him actually still being overpaid?

Your sig is funny

Raps18-19 Champ
06-22-2014, 05:47 PM
Your sig is funny

Because it is true,

Dade County
06-22-2014, 05:53 PM
Because it is true,

Thats if you don't factor in, why they played so bad.

Like maybe the perfect storybook ending, scripted out and whatnot.

Lots of possibilities, if you choose to look.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-22-2014, 06:01 PM
Thats if you don't factor in, why they played so bad.

Like maybe the perfect storybook ending, scripted out and whatnot.

Lots of possibilities, if you choose to look.

The gameplan was played perfectly. But it's not the first time his roster as disappeared on him.

kozelkid
06-22-2014, 06:39 PM
The gameplan was played perfectly. But it's not the first time his roster as disappeared on him.

Is he completely free from blame for the style of basketball he chooses to play (i.e. iso while the rest of his teammates space out the floor for him)?

ghettosean
06-22-2014, 06:40 PM
Oh, come on! :mad:


Although it makes a lot of sense with how his knees are, but goddamn. Miami is so damn lucky to be the ones to draft such a loyal player in 2003. Freaking like 9 more million to spend on Free Agency.

Now, even if Lebron Leaves, the team will still likely be contenders next year, cause (I'm under the assumption that Bosh is staying, after all of his comments during the year), they will have tons of cap space to build around.

Great.... Now I have to worry about Lowry leaving :mad:

I f**king hate you cal you ***** making me worry about lowry on my honeymoon!!! FUUUUUUUUU*K!!!

J/K much love he ain't leaving book it!

Heat are lucky *****es!!!

3ballbomber
06-22-2014, 06:51 PM
If you watched the NBA Finals this year, it was 1 vs 5. So yes, he does.

Spurs plan was to shut down everybody else but Lebron - reason why he was able to get his points, yet when he says he needs to do more still couldn't put up 35-40 pts while the Spurs focused on shutting down his team mates. Besides it's not about him doing more individually - Spurs lead Lebron right into their game plan by thinking that way. lebron showing up was way of Spurs plan, so all these justifications are overstated.

the brave eagle
06-22-2014, 06:54 PM
http://fansided.com/2014/06/21/report-dwyane-wade-likely-opt-contract-take-discount/#!2b5T5



This is BIG, BIG news for the Miami HEAT in keeping LeBron, and to be honest, I think this means that there is a 100% chance LeBron stays.

I would have been ecstatic if D-Wade had taken a 5 year 60-65 mill deal, but 5 years @ 50-55 mill is 10-11 mill cap hit per year. If the HEAT back load the contract somewhat, Wade may have a cap hit of 7-8 mill this year instead of 20. Thus, Wade alone may allow the HEAT to get at least 10-12 million in cap space.

If Bosh follows suit, and takes somewhat of a paycut, from 21 mill to say 14-15 mill per year, and LeBron takes a 2-3 million paycut to 18 mill per year, Miami may have 16-18 million in cap space to add talent, essentially a max contract worth.

I am thinking this means they are going to attempt to make a strong push for Carmelo, which to be honest I would strongly hate. This would bring out LeBron critics in full force, in saying he needs 3 superstars around him to win, but also in that Carmelo and LeBron play the same position, and this means Bosh would become a full time center.

Instead, i am praying Miami uses this cap space to sign high quality role players,

Gortat @ 8-10m
Meeks @ 5-7m
Collison @ 2-4m

That right there gives Miami a much more complete team, and I personally believe that Meeks is a must for the HEAT. He needs to be on this team as Miami needs a very competent SG to play in games during the regular season where D-Wade is resting and he is a great, great 3 pt shooter and scorer.

but tell me this why would either bosh or lebron take a pay cut? they won't so there goes that theory, an anthony will demand more than 20 mill a season so there goes that theory, gorat would be a nice sign an so would collison,

the brave eagle
06-22-2014, 06:57 PM
an im getting really annoyed about this 5 vs 1 BS.. just because 2 of "YOUR BIG 3" didnt show up doesnt mean its 5 vs 1. it was 5 vs. 5 an the sprurs 5 outplayed the heat's 5. enough said

3ballbomber
06-22-2014, 06:58 PM
Is he completely free from blame for the style of basketball he chooses to play (i.e. iso while the rest of his teammates space out the floor for him)?
as long as lebron scores his points he can't be criticized.....he and the media fancies him as a magic johnson sort of player with is passing abilities and often has the ball in his hands as he has been throughout his career - yet had more turn overs than assists. But again, give him his points and it's all about how his team mates are trash and how it's the cavs all over again spite of how absolutely stacked miami are. Perhaps it's Lebron himself, his lack of effective leadership and his selfish style of star-type brand of basketball he plays - wich the Spurs frown on (Pop about Duncan, Parker & Manu "They got over themselves a long time ago"). A team sport has no room for individualism, especially when you face a team like the Spurs. Miami were exposed - it's not that James team mates are trash or didnt turn up!

ink
06-22-2014, 07:00 PM
If you watched the NBA Finals this year, it was 1 vs 5. So yes, he does.

Spurs plan was to shut down everybody else but Lebron - reason why he was able to get his points, yet when he says he needs to do more still couldn't put up 35-40 pts while the Spurs focused on shutting down his team mates. Besides it's not about him doing more individually - Spurs lead Lebron right into their game plan by thinking that way. lebron showing up was way of Spurs plan, so all these justifications are overstated.

NBA fans don't understand this just like Lebron didn't understand. Our ball culture is stunningly obtuse. It's all about rings and what free agent goes where. No wonder Pops was able to pick the Heat apart. It doesn't always work but it did this year. Signs sre that Lebron got it briefly -- like maybe for part of a press conference. But as soon as the series was over reverted back to the dumbed down "I need help to win" narrative. Truly sad.

ink
06-22-2014, 07:02 PM
Is he completely free from blame for the style of basketball he chooses to play (i.e. iso while the rest of his teammates space out the floor for him)?
as long as lebron scores his points he can't be criticized.....he and the media fancies him as a magic johnson sort of player with is passing abilities and often has the ball in his hands as he has been throughout his career - yet had more turn overs than assists. But again, give him his points and it's all about how his team mates are trash and how it's the cavs all over again spite of how absolutely stacked miami are. Perhaps it's Lebron himself, his lack of effective leadership and his style selfish style of star-type brand of basketball he plays - wich the Spurs frown on (Pop about Duncan, Parker & Manu "They got over themselves a long time ago")

Nailed it completely.

Deutsch Konig
06-22-2014, 07:06 PM
"IF" I were the Heat GM, I think it's obvious to simply trade Bosh for 2 slightly lesser talents at C and PG.

If the Sixers were willing, Maybe Bosh and Heat 1st round pick from Thad Young and MCW??? I "think" salaries match and value is about the same. MCW is good but he was overrated last year due to the ridiculously lousy rookie class. That would leave the Heat with

MCW/Cole
Wade/Allen
James/Lewis
Young/Haslem
Andersen/Oden/Hamilton

Much better lineup than what they put on the floor in the finals imo

Orrrrrr

Trade Bosh for Lin and Asik "If" contracts match up

Lin/Cole
Wade/Allen
James/Lewis
Andersen/Haslem
Asik/Oden/Hamilton

I don't know, just throwing out ideas....But in short, the Heat need a legit C and PG, and Bosh doesn't mesh with Wade and James...

Raps18-19 Champ
06-22-2014, 07:19 PM
as long as lebron scores his points he can't be criticized.....he and the media fancies him as a magic johnson sort of player with is passing abilities and often has the ball in his hands as he has been throughout his career - yet had more turn overs than assists. But again, give him his points and it's all about how his team mates are trash and how it's the cavs all over again spite of how absolutely stacked miami are. Perhaps it's Lebron himself, his lack of effective leadership and his selfish style of star-type brand of basketball he plays - wich the Spurs frown on (Pop about Duncan, Parker & Manu "They got over themselves a long time ago"). A team sport has no room for individualism, especially when you face a team like the Spurs. Miami were exposed - it's not that James team mates are trash or didnt turn up!

Lol what a horrible ratio to compare. How many assist are you getting if no one else is scoring the ball?

Maybe instead of comparing assist to TO ratio, you compare good passes and bad passes and if it was the same result, then you can knack on him being a bad passer.

I can literally throw a bad pass and if someone makes a 35 foot heave every single time, I stack up my assist. Or if I pass it to a wide open player for 3 and they miss, then I get no assist.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-22-2014, 07:28 PM
an im getting really annoyed about this 5 vs 1 BS.. just because 2 of "YOUR BIG 3" didnt show up doesnt mean its 5 vs 1. it was 5 vs. 5 an the sprurs 5 outplayed the heat's 5. enough said

That's the point. If you didn't show up, it was basically 1 on 5. Spurs played them great and definitely shut them down. Doesn't change the fact that Lebron was the only one contributing.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-22-2014, 07:29 PM
Is he completely free from blame for the style of basketball he chooses to play (i.e. iso while the rest of his teammates space out the floor for him)?

No one said he was free from blame.

ink
06-22-2014, 07:35 PM
an im getting really annoyed about this 5 vs 1 BS.. just because 2 of "YOUR BIG 3" didnt show up doesnt mean its 5 vs 1. it was 5 vs. 5 an the sprurs 5 outplayed the heat's 5. enough said

That's the point. If you didn't show up, it was basically 1 on 5. Spurs played them great and definitely shut them down. Doesn't change the fact that Lebron was the only one contributing.

Definitely doesn't mean "he needs help". He, his teammates and his coach need to improve their ball IQ. Being suckers to a great team system does NOT mean the players around him are bad. They're just stupid.

Acquiring an ISO oriented player like Melo just plays further into the hands of a masterful coach. So obtuse.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-22-2014, 07:39 PM
Definitely doesn't mean "he needs help". He, his teammates and his coach need to improve their ball IQ. Being suckers to a great team system does NOT mean the players around him are bad. They're just stupid.

Acquiring an ISO oriented player like Melo just plays further into the hands of a masterful coach. So obtuse.

I've never said they should acquire another player on top of what they already have.

ink
06-22-2014, 07:45 PM
Definitely doesn't mean "he needs help". He, his teammates and his coach need to improve their ball IQ. Being suckers to a great team system does NOT mean the players around him are bad. They're just stupid.

Acquiring an ISO oriented player like Melo just plays further into the hands of a masterful coach. So obtuse.

I've never said they should acquire another player on top of what they already have.

The second part of my answer was to the underlying assumption of the thread. With a straight face people actually think Lebron needs "help".

Well he does but it's not other players he needs, it's team IQ he needs help with. And he's a part of the team that was made to look foolish by a team that understood the game at a superior level.

benzni
06-22-2014, 07:47 PM
Wade is a good guy. I dislike the Heat but I hate seeing Wade on the backend of his career.

bucketss
06-22-2014, 07:47 PM
as long as lebron scores his points he can't be criticized.....he and the media fancies him as a magic johnson sort of player with is passing abilities and often has the ball in his hands as he has been throughout his career - yet had more turn overs than assists. But again, give him his points and it's all about how his team mates are trash and how it's the cavs all over again spite of how absolutely stacked miami are. Perhaps it's Lebron himself, his lack of effective leadership and his selfish style of star-type brand of basketball he plays - wich the Spurs frown on (Pop about Duncan, Parker & Manu "They got over themselves a long time ago"). A team sport has no room for individualism, especially when you face a team like the Spurs. Miami were exposed - it's not that James team mates are trash or didnt turn up!

they are not trash but they didn't show up and thats a fact. please explain to me how this is lebrons fault

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IakSy1cO9ss

Raps18-19 Champ
06-22-2014, 07:48 PM
The second part of my answer was to the underlying assumption of the thread. With a straight face people actually think Lebron needs "help".

Well he does but it's not other players he needs, it's team IQ he needs help with. And he's a part of the team that was made to look foolish by a team that understood the game at a superior level.

If we are talking about another star, then no he doesn't need help. If we are talking about actual role players, the Heat are in the lower part of that category in the league and they can use the money to get help.

bucketss
06-22-2014, 07:59 PM
Spurs plan was to shut down everybody else but Lebron - reason why he was able to get his points, yet when he says he needs to do more still couldn't put up 35-40 pts while the Spurs focused on shutting down his team mates. Besides it's not about him doing more individually - Spurs lead Lebron right into their game plan by thinking that way. lebron showing up was way of Spurs plan, so all these justifications are overstated.

people keep saying this but its not true, spurs absolutely tried to stop lebron when ever he took a step into the paint he was double triple teamed, a lot of the stops on him looked like a foul but nothing to cry about. they even changed the strategy from last year when they were allowing him to shoot. nobody shut down guys like chalmers, are you kidding me he shut himself down.

FlashBolt
06-22-2014, 08:04 PM
Lol. 5v5, Miami Heat got outplayed but it was a 1v5 and that was why they got outplayed. James did his part... Miami lost as a team but if James did his part, his team clearly didn't do theirs.. Stop making ignorant posts.

WITZ
06-22-2014, 08:12 PM
Ill believe it when is see it.

3ballbomber
06-22-2014, 08:24 PM
NBA fans don't understand this just like Lebron didn't understand. Our ball culture is stunningly obtuse. It's all about rings and what free agent goes where. No wonder Pops was able to pick the Heat apart. It doesn't always work but it did this year. Signs sre that Lebron got it briefly -- like maybe for part of a press conference. But as soon as the series was over reverted back to the dumbed down "I need help to win" narrative. Truly sad.
it baffles me how people are discussing a stacked team like Miami & how Lebron needs help yet again? needs even MORE help? really?

At one point the commentators were saying numerous times "Where Are They Going To Get Their Offense From?". The absurdity of this statement is mind boggling considering how and why a team like Maiami was built for. Seriously? How does Lebron, the best player in the league, surround himself with Wade, Bosh, then Ray Allen & Lewis & still have troubles scoring!!!?!???!! They actually had to ask where the scoring was going to come from? Regarding a Super Team? & now they need even more help.......WOW!!!!

3ballbomber
06-22-2014, 08:26 PM
Lol what a horrible ratio to compare. How many assist are you getting if no one else is scoring the ball?

Maybe instead of comparing assist to TO ratio, you compare good passes and bad passes and if it was the same result, then you can knack on him being a bad passer.

I can literally throw a bad pass and if someone makes a 35 foot heave every single time, I stack up my assist. Or if I pass it to a wide open player for 3 and they miss, then I get no assist.
arm must be sore from reaching so hard

bucketss
06-22-2014, 08:34 PM
Lol. 5v5, Miami Heat got outplayed but it was a 1v5 and that was why they got outplayed. James did his part... Miami lost as a team but if James did his part, his team clearly didn't do theirs.. Stop making ignorant posts.

these guys are so blinded by their hate for lebron they dont even see what happened in this years finals and just throw the blame all over lebron.

"they let lebron score, and shut everyone else down that was their game plan" ridiculous, never seen such a desperate attempt to discredit lebron.

xnick5757
06-22-2014, 08:35 PM
This contract wont end well but it does help in the short term

eh it's not a bad deal at all

50 mil is:

11
11.825
12.711875
13.665265625


55 mil is

12.25
13.17
14.16
15.22

force_within
06-22-2014, 08:40 PM
If you watched the NBA Finals this year, it was 1 vs 5. So yes, he does.

lol

xnick5757
06-22-2014, 08:41 PM
You have no idea how cap space works obviously. Wade alone, taking a 9 million dollar pay cut, would still not get you under the cap and thus would not actually help you in any way. IF Wade takes a pay cut, IF Lebron takes your 2 million dollar pay cut, and IF Bosh takes your 4 million dollar pay cut, then that will leave you with like 5 million in cap space. The only other people that could be cut would be Justin Hamilton, saving .8 million. Haslem could decline his option and save another 4.6 million. The absolute most, using your own numbers, that the heat could have would be 10.4 million in cap space, with only 5 people on team: Lebron, Bosh, Wade, Andersen, and Cole. With 10 million dollars you would have to fill out the entire bench. Enjoy.


incorrect.


The cap is 63.2 million next year, and Miami has 68,002,206 in current cap commitments (if they renounce the rights to their free agents). Wade taking a 9 mil paycut (11 mil is what a 4 year, 50 mil contract would start at) would give them ~4 mil in cap; Bosh/Lebron paycuts (or if haslem opts out) would add to this number. They only need to get under by 10/11 to give lowry a deal

FlashBolt
06-22-2014, 08:42 PM
it baffles me how people are discussing a stacked team like Miami & how Lebron needs help yet again? needs even MORE help? really?

At one point the commentators were saying numerous times "Where Are They Going To Get Their Offense From?". The absurdity of this statement is mind boggling considering how and why a team like Maiami was built for. Seriously? How does Lebron, the best player in the league, surround himself with Wade, Bosh, then Ray Allen & Lewis & still have troubles scoring!!!?!???!! They actually had to ask where the scoring was going to come from? Regarding a Super Team? & now they need even more help.......WOW!!!!

Did you not watch the Finals? LeBron had trouble scoring? He was 58% scoring 28 and grabbed 8 rebounds.. And yet his team were down 20-30 because he couldn't make up for their mishaps. Wade, Bosh, Allen, Rashard are all out of their prime. Wade took 33% of the regular season off because he was injured. Bosh waits outside the three point line and was outplayed by Duncan 5/5 games. Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis, LOL.

Rashard Lewis:
Regular season
http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/57/a5/57a5f4b0b366c295d1fde8dbb1ddedef.png
Playoff season
http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/c0/22/c022b9b2748b6caa9b78bf34cdfca2c4.png

I am sorry but the fact that you mentioned Rashard Lewis just destroys your credibility to no return.

ink
06-22-2014, 08:44 PM
Lol. 5v5, Miami Heat got outplayed but it was a 1v5 and that was why they got outplayed. James did his part... Miami lost as a team but if James did his part, his team clearly didn't do theirs.. Stop making ignorant posts.

these guys are so blinded by their hate for lebron they dont even see what happened in this years finals and just throw the blame all over lebron.

"they let lebron score, and shut everyone else down that was their game plan" ridiculous, never seen such a desperate attempt to discredit lebron.

And the response ... drumroll ... is that anyone who points out the sheer silliness of the cliche help idea is "hating". Another cliche.

If you actually read the posts, no one is even discrediting Lebron. Imo you're getting too caught up in the Star Wars way of seeing the NBA. The sooner people see that, the sooner we will see great team ball again across the league.

Jeffy25
06-22-2014, 08:48 PM
This contract wont end well but it does help in the short term

I feel like it's a must, otherwise Bosh and Lebron are gone, and he'll get 40 million bucks to be on a bad team the next two years and rot away.

Why not find a way to make a few million more guaranteed, and be a role player on a competitive team. Makes sense for both parties.

Jeffy25
06-22-2014, 08:49 PM
This is also, another example of why salary caps are so dumb. just takes money away from the players.

Jeffy25
06-22-2014, 08:51 PM
Spurs plan was to shut down everybody else but Lebron - reason why he was able to get his points, yet when he says he needs to do more still couldn't put up 35-40 pts while the Spurs focused on shutting down his team mates. Besides it's not about him doing more individually - Spurs lead Lebron right into their game plan by thinking that way. lebron showing up was way of Spurs plan, so all these justifications are overstated.

Is that why the Spurs had their best defender on Lebron all series, and did everything they could to keep the ball away from him?


I'm assuming you didn't watch the series, because nobody was just letting Lebron score, not at all.

FlashBolt
06-22-2014, 08:53 PM
And the response ... drumroll ... is that anyone who points out the sheer silliness of the cliche help idea is "hating". Another cliche.

If you actually read the posts, no one is even discrediting Lebron. Imo you're getting too caught up in the Star Wars way of seeing the NBA. The sooner people see that, the sooner we will see great team ball again across the league.

If reading comprehension and intelligence were applied, you would not be a mod. You said James had a low BBIQ. Really? He's been consistently praised by the greatest players and analysts as having one of the highest BBIQ of the game. To my point, read 3ballbomber's post before you make a silly one yourself.

FlashBolt
06-22-2014, 08:55 PM
This is also, another example of why salary caps are so dumb. just takes money away from the players.

It really isn't dumb. It means teams have to be more strategic with their spending. It's not like baseball where one player has as much impact as an NBA player(s). You stack an NBA team and you'll be winning for many years. I think players get paid too much rather than the salary is too low. When you have players like Amare getting paid $20 million+, something needs to be re-evaluated.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-22-2014, 08:57 PM
arm must be sore from reaching so hard
The facts weren't too hard to reach

bucketss
06-22-2014, 08:57 PM
And the response ... drumroll ... is that anyone who points out the sheer silliness of the cliche help idea is "hating". Another cliche.

If you actually read the posts, no one is even discrediting Lebron. Imo you're getting too caught up in the Star Wars way of seeing the NBA. The sooner people see that, the sooner we will see great team ball again across the league.

im not gonna say his team mates are trash or he doesn't have enough help but they simply didn't show up, every playoffs they stepped up, battier/miller/chalmers/cole, but they didn't show up this year and now guys are blaming it on lebron?


they did discredit bron take a look at 3ballbombers comment.. only reason lebron had good numbers was because spurs let him have it...

beasted86
06-22-2014, 08:58 PM
Did the OP read the post he himself quoted? Really?

How do you mistake 4yrs for 5 years. Pretty significant difference.

Also this is all BS speculation.

Jeffy25
06-22-2014, 08:58 PM
It really isn't dumb. It means teams have to be more strategic with their spending. It's not like baseball where one player has as much impact as an NBA player(s). You stack an NBA team and you'll be winning for many years. I think players get paid too much rather than the salary is too low. When you have players like Amare getting paid $20 million+, something needs to be re-evaluated.

But the real winner here is the owner of the Heat. Why should the players take less money so the owner can make more?

ink
06-22-2014, 08:59 PM
Spurs plan was to shut down everybody else but Lebron - reason why he was able to get his points, yet when he says he needs to do more still couldn't put up 35-40 pts while the Spurs focused on shutting down his team mates. Besides it's not about him doing more individually - Spurs lead Lebron right into their game plan by thinking that way. lebron showing up was way of Spurs plan, so all these justifications are overstated.

Is that why the Spurs had their best defender on Lebron all series, and did everything they could to keep the ball away from him?

I'm assuming you didn't watch the series, because nobody was just letting Lebron score, not at all.

Don't take his point so literally. Pops has done this before. His strategy is often to kill you with your strength.

FlashBolt
06-22-2014, 09:01 PM
I just can't seem to understand how one person can truly make such statements if they had truly watched the NBA finals. Clearly evident that everyone outside of James and Lewis played horribly. Wade/Allen/Bosh are household names but in no way are they even close to their prime. Seriously, Allen is just a three point shooter and for those saying he can create offense, most of the time that leads to a turnover because Allen gets careless with the ball. Can you justify Wade having a great finals? No. Can you justify that Bosh had a great playoffs? No. Can you justify that James played more than great for Miami? Yes. That only concludes that his teammates weren't playing up to task and that is why Spurs won. Sure, it is a team game but the only player who wasn't outplayed by the Spurs was LeBron.

ink
06-22-2014, 09:01 PM
And the response ... drumroll ... is that anyone who points out the sheer silliness of the cliche help idea is "hating". Another cliche.

If you actually read the posts, no one is even discrediting Lebron. Imo you're getting too caught up in the Star Wars way of seeing the NBA. The sooner people see that, the sooner we will see great team ball again across the league.

im not gonna say his team mates are trash or he doesn't have enough help but they simply didn't show up, every playoffs they stepped up, battier/miller/chalmers/cole, but they didn't show up this year and now guys are blaming it on lebron?


they did discredit bron take a look at 3ballbombers comment.. only reason lebron had good numbers was because spurs let him have it...

Don't worry so much about superstars getting "discredited". Not everyone is into the lameass "my star is better than your star" garbage that has ruined this website. Try to think team strategy instead of worrying about Lebron.

ink
06-22-2014, 09:03 PM
I just can't seem to understand how one person can truly make such statements if they had truly watched the NBA finals. Clearly evident that everyone outside of James and Lewis played horribly. Wade/Allen/Bosh are household names but in no way are they even close to their prime. Seriously, Allen is just a three point shooter and for those saying he can create offense, most of the time that leads to a turnover because Allen gets careless with the ball. Can you justify Wade having a great finals? No. Can you justify that Bosh had a great playoffs? No. Can you justify that James played more than great for Miami? Yes. That only concludes that his teammates weren't playing up to task and that is why Spurs won. Sure, it is a team game but the only player who wasn't outplayed by the Spurs was LeBron.

You're not understanding because you're fixating on individual performance.

shep33
06-22-2014, 09:05 PM
Yeah, Miami will run into cap problems regardless if Wade takes a cut.

Good for the near future anyways

FlashBolt
06-22-2014, 09:05 PM
Don't worry so much about superstars getting "discredited". Not everyone is into the lameass "my star is better than your star" garbage that has ruined this website. Try to think team strategy instead of worrying about Lebron.

What don't you understand that Spurs beat Miami because Miami's players outside of James didn't show up. We get it. You don't like the superstar vs superstar comparisons but let's talk about position vs position. Duncan outplayed Bosh, Parker outplayed Chalmers, Manu outplayed Wade, Boris Diaw/Splitter outplayed Rashard, but James outplayed everyone else. Team game, blah blah blah, Wade and Bosh didn't hold their own against their own players and that is why in a team sense, they lost. Had Wade/Bosh played better with James having that usual performance, this would be a different discussion as to which team was better. The only reason you are not bringing up the superstar talk is because then you would have no reason to trash on LeBron.

FlashBolt
06-22-2014, 09:06 PM
You're not understanding because you're fixating on individual performance.

And you're not understanding because you clearly don't understand the simple fact that Miami played horrible as a team because no one showed up outside of James.

ink
06-22-2014, 09:07 PM
Don't worry so much about superstars getting "discredited". Not everyone is into the lameass "my star is better than your star" garbage that has ruined this website. Try to think team strategy instead of worrying about Lebron.

What don't you understand that Spurs beat Miami because Miami's players outside of James didn't show up. We get it. You don't like the superstar vs superstar comparisons but let's talk about position vs position. Duncan outplayed Bosh, Parker outplayed Chalmers, Manu outplayed Wade, Boris Diaw/Splitter outplayed Rashard, but James outplayed everyone else. Team game, blah blah blah, Wade and Bosh didn't hold their own against their own players and that is why in a team sense, they lost. Had Wade/Bosh played better with James having that usual performance, this would be a different discussion as to which team was better. The only reason you are not bringing up the superstar talk is because then you would have no reason to trash on LeBron.

Seriously it is not hard to understand what you believe. Problem is, Pops exploited those beliefs and beat the team of stars with lesser players who understood how to play like a team. Truly, we get the star-approach to ball you're repeating. It's all we ever hear.

Tony_Starks
06-22-2014, 09:11 PM
I think a lot of people need to re-listen to Riley's speech. The Heat will re-tool, not rebuild. The big 3 got you to four straight Finals, I seriously doubt they are about to reinvent the wheel here.

Plug in complimentary pieces here and there and keep it moving. The Spurs lost with a less talented older roster than the Heat the year before and the biggest move they made is signing Bellineli. Riley isn't dumb man....

FlashBolt
06-22-2014, 09:12 PM
Seriously it is not hard to understand what you believe. Problem is, Pops exploited those beliefs and best the team of stars with lesser players who understood how to play like a team. Truly, we get the star-approach to ball you're repeating. It's all we ever hear.

Did Wade play like a star? No. Did Bosh play like a star? No. Spurs beat Miami because every single one of Spurs players came to play. Miami didn't outside of LeBron. So we're going to criticize LeBron when his teammates were the ones playing horrific? Sure, I get your team aspect but Miami with Wade/Bosh playing up to standards and with Chalmers not being a complete dummy doll would compete against the Spurs and not get beat down 20 points each game. If you have a hard time understanding what happened in the finals, well, you shouldn't be throwing out posts that contradict your own statements.

ink
06-22-2014, 09:15 PM
Seriously it is not hard to understand what you believe. Problem is, Pops exploited those beliefs and best the team of stars with lesser players who understood how to play like a team. Truly, we get the star-approach to ball you're repeating. It's all we ever hear.

Did Wade play like a star? No. Did Bosh play like a star? No. Spurs beat Miami because every single one of Spurs players came to play. Miami didn't outside of LeBron. So we're going to criticize LeBron when his teammates were the ones playing horrific? Sure, I get your team aspect but Miami with Wade/Bosh playing up to standards and with Chalmers not being a complete dummy doll would compete against the Spurs and not get beat down 20 points each game. If you have a hard time understanding what happened in the finals, well, you shouldn't be throwing out posts that contradict your own statements.

Read your first sentence. The star think is why you can't understand.

the brave eagle
06-22-2014, 09:19 PM
these guys are so blinded by their hate for lebron they dont even see what happened in this years finals and just throw the blame all over lebron.

"they let lebron score, and shut everyone else down that was their game plan" ridiculous, never seen such a desperate attempt to discredit lebron.

by saying that how is that to discredit lebron? so what you're telling is that lebron won that 2nd game of the series? just him an no one else? i think yous are just in love with lebron that you think he's god for some reaso. it's a team sport whether you win or lose, so it's always gonna be 5 vs 5, did lebron score every single point in every single game? of course not

kickflip.master
06-22-2014, 09:19 PM
this will be a lot for him a couple years from now when he can't play at all.

FlashBolt
06-22-2014, 09:22 PM
Read your first sentence. The star think is why you can't understand.

You said Pop exploited the team of stars with lesser players but the fact holds that Wade/Bosh were not playing like stars. Stars perform to their abilities in any circumstance. You're telling me a team of Jordan/LeBron/Shaq would lose to this Spurs team? No. So that beats your argument that stars don't mean crap. They do IF they perform like one. Wade was lockdowned by Danny Green. Bosh was just outside shooting threes. This was not what Spurs made them do. They played bad and so did the rest of the roster. I don't know why you have trouble understanding that. It takes individuals to make a team - so how do you differentiate if a player sucks or not? If I could use your argument, no player would be playing bad.

the brave eagle
06-22-2014, 09:23 PM
im not gonna say his team mates are trash or he doesn't have enough help but they simply didn't show up, every playoffs they stepped up, battier/miller/chalmers/cole, but they didn't show up this year and now guys are blaming it on lebron?


they did discredit bron take a look at 3ballbombers comment.. only reason lebron had good numbers was because spurs let him have it...

i think most of us can agree he's at least a top 3 player, an he had a great series, but you guys are doing the samething that people are doing with saying it was lebrons fault except backwards

FlashBolt
06-22-2014, 09:23 PM
by saying that how is that to discredit lebron? so what you're telling is that lebron won that 2nd game of the series? just him an no one else? i think yous are just in love with lebron that you think he's god for some reaso. it's a team sport whether you win or lose, so it's always gonna be 5 vs 5, did lebron score every single point in every single game? of course not

Obviously he didn't score 100 points by himself. But, he was the only one who played consistent in the finals on Miami's side. Can you agree or disagree with that? Name one player who made a difference for Miami and gave them production? I'll be waiting.

the brave eagle
06-22-2014, 09:27 PM
an i think we might be also discrediting the spurs, they had a game plan an that game plan was played perfectly, they played great defense throughout the series an the heat couldn't do anything about that, which is the whole teams fault including lebron for not changing their game plan

FlashBolt
06-22-2014, 09:29 PM
an i think we might be also discrediting the spurs, they had a game plan an that game plan was played perfectly, they played great defense throughout the series an the heat couldn't do anything about that, which is the whole teams fault including lebron for not changing their game plan

I understand that Spurs played great and executed by how is it LeBron's fault for not changing the game plan? The game plan was that Miami had to play better and point blank, one man cannot force his teammates to make shots. Danny Green isn't even know for his defense and shut down Wade. Ginobili would be the second best player in Miami for that Finals based on production and he was Spurs 4th best player. Hard to overcome such circumstances. I get it, you want to blame Bron. But, his team failed him and not the other way around.

bucketss
06-22-2014, 09:32 PM
by saying that how is that to discredit lebron? so what you're telling is that lebron won that 2nd game of the series? just him an no one else? i think yous are just in love with lebron that you think he's god for some reaso. it's a team sport whether you win or lose, so it's always gonna be 5 vs 5, did lebron score every single point in every single game? of course not

i didn't say that actually... all i said was lebrons teamates didn't show up.


and yes its discrediting because firstly its false, secondly that dude was trying to say the only reason lebron had good stats was because the spurs let him score.

jerellh528
06-22-2014, 09:37 PM
Obviously he didn't score 100 points by himself. But, he was the only one who played consistent in the finals on Miami's side. Can you agree or disagree with that? Name one player who made a difference for Miami and gave them production? I'll be waiting.

Game 1 wade scored 19, bosh scored 18 and Allen scored 16. Didn't make a difference though, the spurs tightened their game plan and executed it to perfection. Game 2 he got good production from bosh wade and Lewis. Game 3 wade scored the same as bron on better efficiency. Game 4 and 5 spurs completely took over and there wasn't much coming back from that.

the brave eagle
06-22-2014, 09:38 PM
what im trying to say is there is no 5 vs 1 in this league, it will always be 5 vs. 5 they didnt get to the finals this year all because of 1 player, they didn't win the last 2 finals just because of one player, let's be realistic here that's im trying to do

Tony_Starks
06-22-2014, 09:40 PM
Obviously he didn't score 100 points by himself. But, he was the only one who played consistent in the finals on Miami's side. Can you agree or disagree with that? Name one player who made a difference for Miami and gave them production? I'll be waiting.

I could've swore the rhetoric for years has been "Lebron makes everybody better." How did we go from that to he doesn't even make stars better?

And Bosh and Wade did hit the clutch shots to win game 2 btw, let's not rewrite history and act like they were absentees the entire series.

ink
06-22-2014, 09:41 PM
Read your first sentence. The star think is why you can't understand.

You said Pop exploited the team of stars with lesser players but the fact holds that Wade/Bosh were not playing like stars. Stars perform to their abilities in any circumstance. You're telling me a team of Jordan/LeBron/Shaq would lose to this Spurs team? No. So that beats your argument that stars don't mean crap. They do IF they perform like one. Wade was lockdowned by Danny Green. Bosh was just outside shooting threes. This was not what Spurs made them do. They played bad and so did the rest of the roster. I don't know why you have trouble understanding that. It takes individuals to make a team - so how do you differentiate if a player sucks or not? If I could use your argument, no player would be playing bad.

It would be good if they didn't play like stars, all of them. That's the point. Playing like a phenomenal team is how the Spurs walloped them.

ink
06-22-2014, 09:42 PM
an i think we might be also discrediting the spurs, they had a game plan an that game plan was played perfectly, they played great defense throughout the series an the heat couldn't do anything about that, which is the whole teams fault including lebron for not changing their game plan

This.

jerellh528
06-22-2014, 09:42 PM
what im trying to say is there is no 5 vs 1 in this league, it will always be 5 vs. 5 they didnt get to the finals this year all because of 1 player, they didn't win the last 2 finals just because of one player, let's be realistic here that's im trying to do

Lebrons cast played extremely well throughout the regular season and entire playoffs up until they met San Antonio, who's game plan was to take the cast away and let james try to beat them. To james credit though, not only his play was lowered from regular standards, his entire casts was as well as durants as well. Spurs were just too good, I mean, what other team could make Lebron average more turnovers than assists through a whole series.

bucketss
06-22-2014, 09:45 PM
I understand that Spurs played great and executed by how is it LeBron's fault for not changing the game plan? The game plan was that Miami had to play better and point blank, one man cannot force his teammates to make shots. Danny Green isn't even know for his defense and shut down Wade. Ginobili would be the second best player in Miami for that Finals based on production and he was Spurs 4th best player. Hard to overcome such circumstances. I get it, you want to blame Bron. But, his team failed him and not the other way around.

i posted a youtube video of wades clear lack of effort, dude is out of shape and it showed as the series continued. once the spurs started passing and pushing the tempo wade was completely out the game. dude just couldn't keep up sad for a supposed "superstar". which is what makes this thread funny, because i don't consider what the op proposed as a paycut, a bit overpaid if you ask me.

3ballbomber
06-22-2014, 10:06 PM
Did you not watch the Finals? LeBron had trouble scoring? He was 58% scoring 28 and grabbed 8 rebounds.. And yet his team were down 20-30 because he couldn't make up for their mishaps. Wade, Bosh, Allen, Rashard are all out of their prime. Wade took 33% of the regular season off because he was injured. Bosh waits outside the three point line and was outplayed by Duncan 5/5 games. Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis, LOL.

Rashard Lewis:
Regular season
http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/57/a5/57a5f4b0b366c295d1fde8dbb1ddedef.png
Playoff season
http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/c0/22/c022b9b2748b6caa9b78bf34cdfca2c4.png

I am sorry but the fact that you mentioned Rashard Lewis just destroys your credibility to no return.
lol the last 3-4 yrs this was considered an elite team, many called it an all-star team, a super team comprised of elite players - When their winning that is :rolleyes: All of a sudden most of them are out of their prime and deemed useless?!? Wasn't it just last season Ray Allen, the oldest player in a Heat uniform saved the Heat from elimination? Lewis also played great vs the Pacers when Spo put him in the starting line up & was the 3rd leading scorer in that game 2 win vs Spurs. These same players helped take Miami to the finals and now you put them under the bus.

& i never said Lebron couldn't score :confused: you wouldn't have said that as a retort had you understood my point.

It takes a big collapse and most people deem as massive failure to have built a team like this and go down in such horrific way. Miami don't need more help, more talent......they need to understand that this is a team orientated sport and will get exposed when facing teams who approach the game as such. This was just proof of that and this star-mentality was exposed in the long run. So now what Lebron gets surrounded with more talent but then still end up depending on him when things go bad? Perhaps this is an on going pattern that people might need to observe more rather than being awed by bright, shining glitter & diamonds.

3ballbomber
06-22-2014, 10:11 PM
these guys are so blinded by their hate for lebron they dont even see what happened in this years finals and just throw the blame all over lebron.

"they let lebron score, and shut everyone else down that was their game plan" ridiculous, never seen such a desperate attempt to discredit lebron.

this cat makes it out as if it's a real stretch for teams to approach trying to defeat Miami w/ this game plan. It's not like it's anything new. It's not like it's never been done before. It's an old strategy & one they used last season also.

have you ever thought to realize you're so enamored w/ Lebron that you fail to see factors outside of your own mind! but no any opinion not supporting your very own deems others as "Haters" & "Hating". this retort is so redundant, tiring & immature.

jerellh528
06-22-2014, 10:13 PM
this cat makes it out as if it's a real stretch for teams to approach trying to defeat Miami w/ this game plan. It's not like it's anything new. It's not like it's never been done before. It's an old strategy & one they used last season also.

have you ever thought to realize you're so enamored w/ Lebron that you fail to see factors outside of your own mind! but no any opinion not supporting your very own deems others as "Haters" & "Hating". this retort is so redundant, tiring & immature.


Seriously. I posted a sports illustrated article that stated that was exactly the spurs gameplan lol but no james lover ever replied to it.

Phenomenonsense
06-22-2014, 10:16 PM
I think you don't know how the cap works tbh. Haslem and Cole will be the only two contracts on our team next season.

Haslem at 4.5 and Cole at 2. 6.5m in cap for 2014-2015. Wade @ 10, Bosh @ 15 and LBJ @ 18-20, puts our cap space at 50, giving 15m or so to resign free agents.

Now, say that Miami signed the other players first, we can even go over our cap I believe to sign our own players, LeBron, Wade, and Bosh as we have bird rights.

Except that is the same calculations I had. The cap was at 58 million this year, giving you roughly 10 million in cap space if it goes up by two million for next year. Maybe you shouldn't talk **** if you don't know what you're talking about.

Another thing: Due to cap holds, you will never be able to sign people over the cap. Wade/Lebron/Bosh's cap holds will be something ridiculous and you won't have any cap space. I don't feel like looking up the exact numbers, but their cap holds will roughly be 70 million combined until they resign or are waived. You can get rid of their holds by waiving them, but then you can't go over the cap to resign them. People far better at numbers and far smarter than you have put a lot of time into making sure there aren't glaring loopholes like the ones you think exist.

3ballbomber
06-22-2014, 10:17 PM
Seriously. I posted a sports illustrated article that stated that was exactly the spurs gameplan lol but no james lover ever replied to it.
if it's no prob could you please re-post link here. not to prove anything but just because i'm interested to read it.

bucketss
06-22-2014, 10:23 PM
Seriously. I posted a sports illustrated article that stated that was exactly the spurs gameplan lol but no james lover ever replied to it.

im sorry your'e usually just cosigning so i tend to look over your posts a lot . may you repost it please

TylerSL
06-22-2014, 10:26 PM
lol @ the idea that Wade would be overpaid in this scenario. 19/5/5 on 55% shooting for an entire season is worth 15+ million/year in today's market. Next season, when Amare is making 23.5 million, Joe Johnson is making 23.1 million, Deron Williams is making 19.8 million, Rudy Gay is making 19.3 million, Derrick Rose is making 18.9 million, and even Hibbert is making 14.9 million will make Wade playing at 12-14 million a year look cheap.

Lets not just look at the worst contracts in basketball, Andrew Bogut will make 13 million, Andrea Bargnani will make 12 million, Steve Nash will make 9.7 million, and George Hill will make 8 million. Even good players like Rondo will make 13 million, Iggy will make 12.3 million, Demar Derozan will make 9.5 million.

If Wade signs 4 years 55 million that would him at 13.75 million/year but it would probably be back loaded with him making the most in his final year, so in this case, Wade will be making Iguodala money. Last year, Iguodala averaged 9/5/4 while shooting .480/.354/.652 in 63 games, while Wade averaged 19/5/5 while shooting .545/.281/.733 in 54 games. Wade would in no way be overpaid if he does take this said pay cut.

Sandman
06-22-2014, 10:27 PM
these guys have plenty of money from their shoe deals

I also read somewhere that Melo took a stake in Beats instead of a payout when he did an endorsement deal, and may have pocketed 100m from the apple sale

Tony_Starks
06-22-2014, 10:37 PM
this cat makes it out as if it's a real stretch for teams to approach trying to defeat Miami w/ this game plan. It's not like it's anything new. It's not like it's never been done before. It's an old strategy & one they used last season also.

have you ever thought to realize you're so enamored w/ Lebron that you fail to see factors outside of your own mind! but no any opinion not supporting your very own deems others as "Haters" & "Hating". this retort is so redundant, tiring & immature.


It's mind boggling how many people can't see this simple gameplan. Lebrons game is mostly predicated on drive and kick. If you double him, he hits the open shooters and game over. The Spurs didnt have to double him because Kawhi Leonard did his job. Lebron got nice numbers, everyone else was held in check, and there you have it.

The fact that Lebron fans take that simple analysis as some sort of huge insult against him is just a serious sign of over sensitivity....

ink
06-22-2014, 10:44 PM
Seriously. I posted a sports illustrated article that stated that was exactly the spurs gameplan lol but no james lover ever replied to it.

tbh it's not a Lebron love issue. It's the sad excuse for ball IQ that we have in this disappointment of a forum.

People are always fighting to prove their player is the best, fighting over rankings. The funny thing is that over the years people have actually not learned anything about the game, the sport itself.

Here's a question: in all the time you or anyone else has been posting, how many times have you/anyone posted your top 10 all time? I bet hundreds of times. Then, how many times have you/anyone ever made a post about plays, strategies, teamwork? Likely ZERO. No exaggeration. No wonder nobody gets the game itself in here.

So, when SA comes along and schools the Heat, no one really gets what they've just seen. This is an indictment against any and all star ball whether it's practised by Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Melo, Durant. Doesn't matter.

The answer for MIA isn't to pick up more stars FFS haha. It's to play the team game the way it was meant to be played.

Even though it was stunning to watch the Spurs move the ball around, it's BASIC BASKETBALL. But I'm not sure the NBA has a hope in hell of replicating it. The Spurs are getting older, David Blatt may not be able to rein in his high draft picks, and few of the rest of the teams seem inclined to play the game the right way.

People just can't get it because they can't break themselves of the dumbed down habit of expecting star individual performances, even after watching the best clinic of team ball we've seen in a generation.

Quinnsanity
06-22-2014, 11:06 PM
tbh it's not a Lebron love issue. It's the sad excuse for ball IQ that we have in this disappointment of a forum.

People are always fighting to prove their player is the best, fighting over rankings. The funny thing is that over the years people have actually not learned anything about the game, the sport itself.

Here's a question: in all the time you or anyone else has been posting, how many times have you/anyone posted your top 10 all time? I bet hundreds of times. Then, how many times have you/anyone ever made a post about plays, strategies, teamwork? Likely ZERO. No exaggeration. No wonder nobody gets the game itself in here.

So, when SA comes along and schools the Heat, no one really gets what they've just seen. This is an indictment against any and all star ball whether it's practised by Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Melo, Durant. Doesn't matter.

The answer for MIA isn't to pick up more stars FFS haha. It's to play the team game the way it was meant to be played.

Even though it was stunning to watch the Spurs move the ball around, it's BASIC BASKETBALL. But I'm not sure the NBA has a hope in hell of replicating it. The Spurs are getting older, David Blatt may not be able to rein in his high draft picks, and few of the rest of the teams seem inclined to play the game the right way.

People just can't get it because they can't break themselves of the dumbed down habit of expecting star individual performances, even after watching the best clinic of team ball we've seen in a generation.

This. Just... this.

Quinnsanity
06-22-2014, 11:11 PM
Also, can I point out how odd it is that nobody else is reporting this? It's been close to 36 hours, and nobody else is confirming it? Doesn't that seem a bit strange? I'm calling BS on this report. I feel like it's just the writer's guess as opposed to an actual report, even if the source is reputable.

therealwd27
06-22-2014, 11:19 PM
Except that is the same calculations I had. The cap was at 58 million this year, giving you roughly 10 million in cap space if it goes up by two million for next year. Maybe you shouldn't talk **** if you don't know what you're talking about.

Another thing: Due to cap holds, you will never be able to sign people over the cap. Wade/Lebron/Bosh's cap holds will be something ridiculous and you won't have any cap space. I don't feel like looking up the exact numbers, but their cap holds will roughly be 70 million combined until they resign or are waived. You can get rid of their holds by waiving them, but then you can't go over the cap to resign them. People far better at numbers and far smarter than you have put a lot of time into making sure there aren't glaring loopholes like the ones you think exist.

They would have to renounce there rights. But it can be done.

bucketss
06-22-2014, 11:42 PM
It's mind boggling how many people can't see this simple gameplan. Lebrons game is mostly predicated on drive and kick. If you double him, he hits the open shooters and game over. The Spurs didnt have to double him because Kawhi Leonard did his job. Lebron got nice numbers, everyone else was held in check, and there you have it.

The fact that Lebron fans take that simple analysis as some sort of huge insult against him is just a serious sign of over sensitivity....

okay i give in, since you guys keep insisting this.. and since it was so obvious please tell me how it was executed and i will go back into the tapes and watch. it was obvious right? when i watched that series i didn't see them giving any special treatment to the role players when i compare it to last year.

i also find it funny how someone is able to shut down a stacked supporting cast hmm..

bucketss
06-22-2014, 11:44 PM
and lebron not being double teamed is a damn lie.

Darc Mind
06-23-2014, 12:07 AM
My God, how this thread got derailed...

Tony_Starks
06-23-2014, 12:11 AM
okay i give in, since you guys keep insisting this.. and since it was so obvious please tell me how it was executed and i will go back into the tapes and watch. it was obvious right? when i watched that series i didn't see them giving any special treatment to the role players when i compare it to last year.

i also find it funny how someone is able to shut down a stacked supporting cast hmm..

Man Kawhi defended Lebron straight up. When he wasn't on him Diaw defended him straight up. At one point he had more turnovers than assist for the series. The "special treatment" for the cast is that they weren't left wide open, altering MIAs typical three point barrage.

Do you really watch games or just skim through it?

Tony_Starks
06-23-2014, 12:19 AM
My God, how this thread got derailed...

Any time there's a MIA related topic this is what happens. Im actually shocked a troll hasn't turned it into Lebron vs Kobe yet.....

FOXHOUND
06-23-2014, 12:19 AM
okay i give in, since you guys keep insisting this.. and since it was so obvious please tell me how it was executed and i will go back into the tapes and watch. it was obvious right? when i watched that series i didn't see them giving any special treatment to the role players when i compare it to last year.

i also find it funny how someone is able to shut down a stacked supporting cast hmm..

and lebron not being double teamed is a damn lie.

It's not that difficult, the special treatment is simply just smart defense. When LeBron drives he looks for kick outs, it's how he gets a ton of his assists. If you just stay on the shooter instead of helping on LeBron then you take away his passing lanes, giving him just the option of driving to the rim and shooting. He's great at that too, which is why so many teams have problems guarding him, but as long as you have a strong on ball defender (Leonard, Green: check) and smart interior defenders who can get good position and contest shots at the rim without fouling dumb (Duncan, Splitter, Diaw... Spurs: check) then you have a good shot at neutralizing LeBron's TEAM, regardless of how many points he scores or how efficiently.

The Indiana Pacers excelled at this last year when they had their heads on straight, it's a big reason why they were able to send that ECF to game 7. LeBron plays a ball dominant heavy style and for the most part turns his teammates into spectators. Against poor/average/not smart defensive teams it can lead to a ton of damage. If a team simply decides to take one or the other, either on a quarter/half/game/series basis, and keeps that focus then a LeBron James led offense will always sputter and be inconsistent. Double him and dare his teammates to beat you on good looks or stay on them and see if LeBron is going to average 40 PPG in a series. I never understand why so many teams try the first method, but having one player trying to outscore your team for a series usually ends up in your favor.

LeBron was not double teamed. Help defense is not a double, neither are timely collapses and traps. That's just help D. Saying players were double teamed is often misused, just as the forms of help D can also be overlooked as effective without needing hard doubles all of the time.

Darc Mind
06-23-2014, 12:23 AM
My God, how this thread got derailed...

Any time a MIA related topic this is what happens. Im actually shocked a troll hasn't turned it into Lebron vs Kobe yet.....

Dont be shocked, Kobe has more rings than Lebron. So Lebron cant even be mentioned in the same sentence. Because this is a individual sport. See what I did?

Jeffy25
06-23-2014, 12:24 AM
tbh it's not a Lebron love issue. It's the sad excuse for ball IQ that we have in this disappointment of a forum.

People are always fighting to prove their player is the best, fighting over rankings. The funny thing is that over the years people have actually not learned anything about the game, the sport itself.

Here's a question: in all the time you or anyone else has been posting, how many times have you/anyone posted your top 10 all time? I bet hundreds of times. Then, how many times have you/anyone ever made a post about plays, strategies, teamwork? Likely ZERO. No exaggeration. No wonder nobody gets the game itself in here.

So, when SA comes along and schools the Heat, no one really gets what they've just seen. This is an indictment against any and all star ball whether it's practised by Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Melo, Durant. Doesn't matter.

The answer for MIA isn't to pick up more stars FFS haha. It's to play the team game the way it was meant to be played.

Even though it was stunning to watch the Spurs move the ball around, it's BASIC BASKETBALL. But I'm not sure the NBA has a hope in hell of replicating it. The Spurs are getting older, David Blatt may not be able to rein in his high draft picks, and few of the rest of the teams seem inclined to play the game the right way.

People just can't get it because they can't break themselves of the dumbed down habit of expecting star individual performances, even after watching the best clinic of team ball we've seen in a generation.

:clap:

Tony_Starks
06-23-2014, 12:25 AM
Dont be shocked, Kobe has more rings than Lebron. So Lebron cant even be mentioned in the same sentence. Because this is a individual sport. See what I did?

You're comical. But yeah Miami post get derailed all the time with nonsense.

FOXHOUND
06-23-2014, 12:26 AM
tbh it's not a Lebron love issue. It's the sad excuse for ball IQ that we have in this disappointment of a forum.

People are always fighting to prove their player is the best, fighting over rankings. The funny thing is that over the years people have actually not learned anything about the game, the sport itself.

Here's a question: in all the time you or anyone else has been posting, how many times have you/anyone posted your top 10 all time? I bet hundreds of times. Then, how many times have you/anyone ever made a post about plays, strategies, teamwork? Likely ZERO. No exaggeration. No wonder nobody gets the game itself in here.

So, when SA comes along and schools the Heat, no one really gets what they've just seen. This is an indictment against any and all star ball whether it's practised by Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Melo, Durant. Doesn't matter.

The answer for MIA isn't to pick up more stars FFS haha. It's to play the team game the way it was meant to be played.

Even though it was stunning to watch the Spurs move the ball around, it's BASIC BASKETBALL. But I'm not sure the NBA has a hope in hell of replicating it. The Spurs are getting older, David Blatt may not be able to rein in his high draft picks, and few of the rest of the teams seem inclined to play the game the right way.

People just can't get it because they can't break themselves of the dumbed down habit of expecting star individual performances, even after watching the best clinic of team ball we've seen in a generation.

:dance:

Darc Mind
06-23-2014, 12:37 AM
Dont be shocked, Kobe has more rings than Lebron. So Lebron cant even be mentioned in the same sentence. Because this is a individual sport. See what I did?

You're comical. But yeah Miami post get derailed all the time with nonsense.

Tip your waitresses. And ive read the forums for years. Just never posted, till couple of days ago. I know how these things can get. Just sad really, to see my team get discredited because of stupid s**t.

bucketss
06-23-2014, 12:49 AM
It's not that difficult, the special treatment is simply just smart defense. When LeBron drives he looks for kick outs, it's how he gets a ton of his assists. If you just stay on the shooter instead of helping on LeBron then you take away his passing lanes, giving him just the option of driving to the rim and shooting. He's great at that too, which is why so many teams have problems guarding him, but as long as you have a strong on ball defender (Leonard, Green: check) and smart interior defenders who can get good position and contest shots at the rim without fouling dumb (Duncan, Splitter, Diaw... Spurs: check) then you have a good shot at neutralizing LeBron's TEAM, regardless of how many points he scores or how efficiently.

The Indiana Pacers excelled at this last year when they had their heads on straight, it's a big reason why they were able to send that ECF to game 7. LeBron plays a ball dominant heavy style and for the most part turns his teammates into spectators. Against poor/average/not smart defensive teams it can lead to a ton of damage. If a team simply decides to take one or the other, either on a quarter/half/game/series basis, and keeps that focus then a LeBron James led offense will always sputter and be inconsistent. Double him and dare his teammates to beat you on good looks or stay on them and see if LeBron is going to average 40 PPG in a series. I never understand why so many teams try the first method, but having one player trying to outscore your team for a series usually ends up in your favor.

LeBron was not double teamed. Help defense is not a double, neither are timely collapses and traps. That's just help D. Saying players were double teamed is often misused, just as the forms of help D can also be overlooked as effective without needing hard doubles all of the time.

thats pretty interesting., but one thing i would say is how did wade the guy who is least dependant on lebrons passing be the one who took the biggest hit?

the shooters getting shut down is one thing, but wade getting shut down? isnt he suppose to be a star who is an elite shot creator.?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IakSy1cO9ss


you can tell by his defence his effort level through the whole series was low, wade isn't even a player who is heavily dependant on lebrons passes. if you look through player performances from the cast you will see the only one to take a HUGE hit was wade. if wade is himself we would have a different series, miami might still lose but wade made spurs job MUCH easier.

All-In
06-23-2014, 12:55 AM
Did anyone read the article? Its totally bogus.....Wade opting out to take a pay cut can't be further from the truth at this point...........but still.....the thread has 13 pages.....zzzzz.....zzzzzz

FOXHOUND
06-23-2014, 01:10 AM
thats pretty interesting., but one thing i would say is how did wade the guy who is least dependant on lebrons passing be the one who took the biggest hit?

the shooters getting shut down is one thing, but wade getting shut down? isnt he suppose to be a star who is an elite shot creator.?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IakSy1cO9ss


you can tell by his defence his effort level through the whole series was low, wade isn't even a player who is heavily dependant on lebrons passes. if you look through player performances from the cast you will see the only one to take a HUGE hit was wade. if wade is himself we would have a different series, miami might still lose but wade made spurs job MUCH easier.

Wade in games 1-3 was just like he was against Indiana, just facing a better team. 18 PPG on 54% is nothing to sneeze at. Was he limited? Sure, but he's been limited all year by the health of his knees so I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised by that. Games 4 and 5 he hit some sort of wall and his legs were just shot, that was really easy to see.

Wade wasn't the difference though. You don't take the worst beatdown in Finals history because of one player, or by accident. It could have been closer, but how much closer? Maybe they win game 1 instead of losing game 1? Speaking of game 1, there was a 20 minute stretch in that game where both LeBron and Bosh went scoreless, during which time Wade carried them and kept them in the game. He also had big time 3rd quarters in games 2 and 3 to help get them back in those games.

Either way they were losing games 3, 4 and 5, and I'm sure a possible game 6 too if a better Wade would have been the difference in game 1. But you know, it's not like Tony Parker was healthy either. The Spurs just beat them down with team basketball vs star basketball, simple as that.

Tony_Starks
06-23-2014, 01:53 AM
Tip your waitresses. And ive read the forums for years. Just never posted, till couple of days ago. I know how these things can get. Just sad really, to see my team get discredited because of stupid s**t.

A poster with a actual sense of humor! Post more often man, shake up the established nonsense.......

lakerboy
06-23-2014, 04:46 AM
I heard Mario Chalmers is also taking a paycut. Instead of a max contract, he will again go for the minimum.

Darc Mind
06-23-2014, 06:18 AM
tip your waitresses. And ive read the forums for years. Just never posted, till couple of days ago. I know how these things can get. Just sad really, to see my team get discredited because of stupid s**t.

a poster with a actual sense of humor! Post more often man, shake up the established nonsense.......

anarchy!

TornadoOfSouls
06-23-2014, 06:36 AM
Wade does what Kobe don't.

Munkeysuit
06-23-2014, 07:25 AM
so in another words...Lebron needs more help? geez

Are you kidding me? dude, you have 20k+ posts and you ask a question like that? please tell me your not one of those dudes that still think the Miami Heat is a stacked super team that was built oh so unfairly! Did you just see what the Spurs did to them? I am a Heat fan BUT I am glad we loss the way we did, because in order to get better, you have to know where your going wrong and the Spurs exposed a lot of holes in our team structure. To answer your question (if it was a real question) YES Lebron does need help! I think it was pretty apparent LMAO!

Heatcheck
06-23-2014, 09:51 AM
19 5 &5 on 55% for 10 mil sounds pretty damn good to me. and hopefully he spends his summer improving that 3pt shot. and if bosh takes s cut too, it gives them a bunch of options. Gortat, Okafor, Lowry, Bradley, hill, blair, morrow, even gasol, all offer something we need. I realize Bledsoe wont be going anywhere, so ill ignore him.
but there are a lot of serviceable role players that can be had for not a whole lot.

ink
06-23-2014, 10:45 AM
so in another words...Lebron needs more help? geez

Are you kidding me? dude, you have 20k+ posts and you ask a question like that? please tell me your not one of those dudes that still think the Miami Heat is a stacked super team that was built oh so unfairly! Did you just see what the Spurs did to them? I am a Heat fan BUT I am glad we loss the way we did, because in order to get better, you have to know where your going wrong and the Spurs exposed a lot of holes in our team structure. To answer your question (if it was a real question) YES Lebron does need help! I think it was pretty apparent LMAO!

Everything is solved by bringing in new shiny parts. That's how sports works right? Buy, use, replace, buy again. Wouldn't have anything to do with lack of internal development or intelligent teamwork. /irony

jmaest
06-23-2014, 10:49 AM
Everything is solved by bringing in new shiny parts. That's how sports works right? Buy, use, replace, buy again. Wouldn't have anything to do with lack of internal development or intelligent teamwork. /irony

Well said.

Chronz
06-23-2014, 10:50 AM
Everything is solved by bringing in new shiny parts. That's how sports works right? Buy, use, replace, buy again. Wouldn't have anything to do with lack of internal development or intelligent teamwork. /irony
Its abit of everything right. Spurs dont return to contention if they never trade for Kawhi not to mention picking up Diaw off waivers when he was making +10M.

ink
06-23-2014, 10:56 AM
Everything is solved by bringing in new shiny parts. That's how sports works right? Buy, use, replace, buy again. Wouldn't have anything to do with lack of internal development or intelligent teamwork. /irony
Pretty much yea, Spurs dont return to contention if they never trade for Kawhi not to mention picking up Diaw off waivers when he was making +10M.

Despite the team-driven MVP for KL this year, all their advances are due to internal development. His talent was not bought. The point is that star ball is wasteful and hit and miss because it has no foundation. It doesn't rely on integrating intelligent team concepts, it relies on purchasing new toys.

Chronz
06-23-2014, 11:18 AM
Despite the team-driven MVP for KL this year, all their advances are due to internal development. His talent was not bought. The point is that star ball is wasteful and hit and miss because it has no foundation. It doesn't rely on integrating intelligent team concepts, it relies on purchasing new toys.

I disagree, they dont get that shiny new toy if they never trade for him. That they developed him came AFTER the fact. The guy was an athletic freak that they invested in.

And I dont know what you mean by wasted. Hit and miss applies to all teams, including the Spurs.

IKnowHoops
06-23-2014, 11:19 AM
Heat need a better coach, Spo sucks

ink
06-23-2014, 11:38 AM
I disagree, they dont get that shiny new toy if they never trade for him. That they developed him came AFTER the fact. The guy was an athletic freak that they invested in.

And I dont know what you mean by wasted. Hit and miss applies to all teams, including the Spurs.

Drafting talent is the epitome of internal development. The player they traded (GH, 26) for the pick they used for him (KL, 15) was also drafted by them. Their system maximizes efficiency in every way and enhances value, raising a 26 pick to the value of a 15 pick, which they converted into a meaningful piece that eventually became an FMVP. Do I also need to point out the appreciation in value of the picks they used to select TP and MG? How about Patty Mills (55th pick by Portland, developed in SA into a key piece on this championship team). The Spurs teach us how to build a team. The fact they claimed another key piece, Diaw, off waivers only underlines the ability of their system to increase the value of players they pick up and develop.

By contrast this thread is about a star ball team discarding players as soon as they are deemed not to be satisfactory "help". Stupid business practice, and stupid basketball tbh, as we witnessed in the finals when they were easily dismantled on the court. Now, foolishly, many are talking about dismantling them off the court too.

RLundi
06-23-2014, 12:02 PM
Wade used to be my favorite player but he's done. A 5-year deal is way too long if I'm the Heat. I'd rather overpay him on his average salary and give him a 2- or 3-year deal.

In fact, maybe him opting in is the best deal for both sides. I would also let Bosh walk and try to go after Gortat and shore up the bench. The Heat need to retool badly. They're aging and their offensive schemes seem archaic at this point.

Chronz
06-23-2014, 12:10 PM
Drafting talent is the epitome of internal development.
So trading other talent+assets to acquire a better draft pick is no different than trading for actual players? Kudos that they developed a talented player but Im not seeing your bigger picture about team building and the success rate of there methodology.


The player they traded (GH, 26) for the pick they used for him (KL, 15) was also drafted by them. Their system maximizes efficiency in every way and enhances value, raising a 26 pick to the value of a 15 pick, which they converted into a meaningful piece that eventually became an FMVP. Do I also need to point out the appreciation in value of the picks they used to select TP and MG? How about Patty Mills (55th pick by Portland, developed in SA into a key piece on this championship team). The Spurs teach us how to build a team. The fact they claimed another key piece, Diaw, off waivers only underlines the ability of their system to increase the value of players they pick up and develop.
Everything you've said here is true, I honestly didn't consider the fact that the assets they used to acquire KL were organically created, that does change the chain abit. They are one of the better drafting teams for sure and that always helps sustain success but at the same time, they've had their Big-3 locked in on the cheap for years. That is what has allowed them to retain the supporting cast, so the hard part of their job has been over for some time now. The only complaint I have here is that Diaw only became available to them is because he was overpaid on an inept franchise, my point wasn't that the system deterred him, just that the Spurs didn't organically acquire such a pivotal piece, they added that shiny new toy in the same way all other teams have.

Thats why I edited my previous post, I dont think the Spurs apologized when the splurged on guys like Brent Barry and Finley. Spurs have tried to add high profile players like Kidd, Tmac, Hedo/Jackson (ok the last 2 not so much) before, so if they are showing us how to build teams then its clear they utilize whatever is available and there is no shame in adding other pieces through other means.


By contrast this thread is about a star ball team discarding players as soon as they are deemed not to be satisfactory "help". Stupid business practice, and stupid basketball tbh, as we witnessed in the finals when they were easily dismantled on the court. Now, foolishly, many are talking about dismantling them off the court too.
I dont see what makes it foolish when its proven successful. I get that there is something to be said for standing pat, its what I want the Clippers to do this season, I feel we have all the pieces necessary to contend in the foreseeable future but other teams aren't so fortunate. You have to project forward and come to a conclusion on a players performance level. The Heat may not have the luxury of standing pat and their best means to acquire talent are through FA. Its how they have won every championship they've ever had.

Chronz
06-23-2014, 12:12 PM
Wade used to be my favorite player but he's done. A 5-year deal is way too long if I'm the Heat. I'd rather overpay him on his average salary and give him a 2- or 3-year deal.

In fact, maybe him opting in is the best deal for both sides. I would also let Bosh walk and try to go after Gortat and shore up the bench. The Heat need to retool badly. They're aging and their offensive schemes seem archaic at this point.

Archaic? Their defense seemed just as bad in the Finals. They cant play the active/aggressive style anymore so a more traditional bigman might be better but I think of Bosh as a MUST HAVE. His range and defensive mobility are too important to what the Heat do best.

ink
06-23-2014, 12:35 PM
Everything you've said here is true, I honestly didn't consider the fact that the assets they used to acquire KL were organically created, that does change the chain abit. They are one of the better drafting teams for sure and that always helps sustain success but at the same time, they've had their Big-3 locked in on the cheap for years. That is what has allowed them to retain the supporting cast, so the hard part of their job has been over for some time now. The only complaint I have here is that Diaw only became available to them is because he was overpaid on an inept franchise, my point wasn't that the system deterred him, just that the Spurs didn't organically acquire such a pivotal piece, they added that shiny new toy in the same way all other teams have.

Diaw was hardly a shiny new toy. He was on waivers. They recycled a player who had been denigrated and undervalued for quite a while. And remember, their big 3 was developed internally, so they're really building on top of what they've already created. I have no problem with stars taking pay cuts. What I have a problem with is looking to buy the answers to problems instead of solving them through ball IQ in the players and improved team play. That's what's lacking on the Heat, not talent.


Thats why I edited my previous post, I dont think the Spurs apologized when the splurged on guys like Brent Barry and Finley. Spurs have tried to add high profile players like Kidd, Tmac, Hedo/Jackson (ok the last 2 not so much) before, so if they are showing us how to build teams then its clear they utilize whatever is available and there is no shame in adding other pieces through other means.

By shiny new toys I'm referring to so-called superstars. I'm aware that all teams add the best role players they can. All the same, on balance, look at the composition of a built team's roster and look at a bought team's roster and you will see internal development of low-valued assets on the built one and instant expectation (and often discards if they don't produce) from highly-valued assets on the bought one. The fact that Melo is in the conversation just makes me shake my head.


I dont see what makes it foolish when its proven successful. I get that there is something to be said for standing pat ...

It's foolish because it's wasteful. Look at the carcasses left behind in the wake of Kobe or Lebron's finals appearances. There are no carcasses left behind in a Spurs win, for example.

I'm not advocating for standing pat. Ironically what Riley said at his recent rambling press conference is the closest I've heard to sense from that org in a while. We've heard way too much from and about Lebron and I like that we're hearing from the actual team builder. He says the team has to "organically grow from within". He also challenged the stars "guts" to develop from within but we don't know if they will or if they will bail. Growing from within is not standing pat, not in any way. Growing from within is what the Spurs do year in year out, regardless of the role players they acquire (to further develop).

The Heat have the talent, in fact the starting point of the talent they have is much much better than much of the talent the Spurs ever start with. It's what they do with it that creates such excellence.

BKLYNpigeon
06-23-2014, 12:53 PM
they need Bosh to take 5 mil less and the Heat should be able to reload with some solid players.

Heatcheck
06-23-2014, 01:11 PM
... they didn't hit their shots and the spurs did, all the passing in the world cant help you if you don't make your shots. as much as they've been praised for their basketball Iq these last couple of years, and finding the extra pass, its surprising how quick people knee-jerk into basically calling them a team full of iversons.

Their key players got old. Wades still good, but not the way he has been, and not for the amount we rely upon him. And he had a terrible series to boot.

Battier is someone we relied upon heavily the last two championships. he can guard multiple positions extremely well (or at least he use to) is a tremendously smart player, and a great passer, always made the offense look that much better when he was on the court. not too mention a very good three point shooter.

And so on, Chalmers played horrifically, allens a shell of his former self, he played alright but just doesn't have enough in him to pick up the slack for wade, cant really blame him at his age.

you just have to look at your options and rebuild.

Chronz
06-23-2014, 01:43 PM
Diaw was hardly a shiny new toy. He was on waivers.
AKA the contenders most inexpensive form of adding valuable talent.


They recycled a player who had been denigrated and undervalued for quite a while. And remember, their big 3 was developed internally, so they're really building on top of what they've already created. I have no problem with stars taking pay cuts. What I have a problem with is looking to buy the answers to problems instead of solving them through ball IQ in the players and improved team play. That's what's lacking on the Heat, not talent.
Yeah, the Spurs were in position to do so, not all teams can take the same approach depending the makeup of the rest of the team.


By shiny new toys I'm referring to so-called superstars. I'm aware that all teams add the best role players they can. All the same, on balance, look at the composition of a built team's roster and look at a bought team's roster and you will see internal development of low-valued assets on the built one and instant expectation (and often discards if they don't produce) from highly-valued assets on the bought one. The fact that Melo is in the conversation just makes me shake my head.
Spurs have chased those guys too, even against their current stars best wishes (Remember TP hating the Kidd rumors), they just didn't land them. And I dont see why superstars are the only ones who are being held to this obscure standard.



It's foolish because it's wasteful. Look at the carcasses left behind in the wake of Kobe or Lebron's finals appearances. There are no carcasses left behind in a Spurs win, for example.
Whats the alternative? Its hit or miss for all of them, Spurs have been the best run organization because they best utilize everything available to them and have the good fortune of players who are willing to take paycuts to keep the gang alive. Not every team is as fortunate with their core players. Im not disputing that the Spurs are the best run organization, Im disputing that its a result of them following a narrow approach of internally developing their core. We'll see how well that lasts when their best players really decline and they are forced into finally rebuilding. But I think you will see San Antonio pursue big star pieces in ways beyond the draft again some day. Whether they actually land them is something that remains to be seen.


I'm not advocating for standing pat.
But if they aren't allowed to add free agents or make trades, that means they can only use their very poor draft pick to improve. Which means developing a wild card of a player over time. Wade doesn't have that much time in his career to take that approach. With this core of players, they are in win now mode. They dont have the luxury of time the way the Spurs did when they were going through their down time.


Ironically what Riley said at his recent rambling press conference is the closest I've heard to sense from that org in a while. We've heard way too much from and about Lebron and I like that we're hearing from the actual team builder. He says the team has to "organically grow from within". He also challenged the stars "guts" to develop from within but we don't know if they will or if they will bail.
He would say that, wonder if the Cavs delivered a similar message when trying to retain Bron.


Growing from within is not standing pat, not in any way.
Thing is, not every core can grow from within. Wade/Battier/Udonis/Ray Allen have all been in a steady decline for years, so to has Miami's ability to compensate for their lack of size with overwhelming athleticism. Them waiving important heroes like Mike Miller speaks to the backwards thinking from that organization. Im sure they could improve in minor ways, but the way San Antonio beat them exposed chinks in their armor that I dont think they can compensate for without a shakeup of some kind. It doesn't have to be a huge addition but something that offsets their obvious weaknesses. Something similar to how San Antonio got KL in the first place would be ideal, but those kind of deals dont happen often and are still a toss up.



Growing from within is what the Spurs do year in year out, regardless of the role players they acquire (to further develop).

Thing is, its not regardless of the "role players", there is a pretty big singular reason why they returned to contention after years of being something of a treadmill team that was susceptible to being upset. He was their Finals MVP. If the Heat could add a prospect of similar potential, they would gladly take it.



The Heat have the talent, in fact the starting point of the talent they have is much much better than much of the talent the Spurs ever start with. It's what they do with it that creates such excellence.I disagree, I think the Spurs were more talented, thought they were last year as well. They may not have the top heavy talent, but they have more pieces necessary to win.

I really dont know what you would expect Miami to do in order to win with their talent but I think they did just fine in their prior 2 championships, they played beautiful basketball and played with a frenetic defensive system that I just dont see often, thing is, that talent degraded by standing pat for the most part.

tr3ymill3r
06-23-2014, 01:54 PM
If Wade is the second best player on the Heat, it doesn't matter if he's getting paid $20+ million or $2 million per year the Heat will continually lose in the finals if that's the case.

Chronz
06-23-2014, 02:03 PM
If Wade is the second best player on the Heat, it doesn't matter if he's getting paid $20+ million or $2 million per year the Heat will continually lose in the finals if that's the case.

Bosh will become their 2nd best player and Wade is a fine 3rd option, the thing is he has to realize hes further down the pecking order than he thinks. When you start talking about a teams 3rd guy, if that guy isn't a great compliment to the other 2 (Current Wade is not) then you have to rethink your entire rotation. Its why I made the +/- thread regarding Wade. I think the days of him having to be out there are over. He should become a true 6th man by this point. What makes it tricky is finding the guy worth starting over him .

ink
06-23-2014, 02:04 PM
AKA the contenders most inexpensive form of adding valuable talent.

Which was never at issue, so not a good example.


Spurs have chased those guys too, even against their current stars best wishes (Remember TP hating the Kidd rumors), they just didn't land them. And I dont see why superstars are the only ones who are being held to this obscure standard.

lol, hardly obscure when we're talking about star ball.


Whats the alternative? Its hit or miss for all of them, Spurs have been the best run organization because they best utilize everything available to them and have the good fortune of players who are willing to take paycuts to keep the gang alive. Not every team is as fortunate with their core players. Im not disputing that the Spurs are the best run organization, Im disputing that its a result of them following a narrow approach of internally developing their core. We'll see how well that lasts when their best players really decline and they are forced into finally rebuilding. But I think you will see San Antonio pursue big star pieces in ways beyond the draft again some day. Whether they actually land them is something that remains to be seen.

You believe in randomness. I doubt Pops or Buford do.

They aren't just fortunate with their core players. It's their ethos.

Regarding decline, they have a HOFer lottery pick at their core, an essential ingredient in building a franchise. Built not bought. Built through the draft. So many advantages.


But if they aren't allowed to add free agents or make trades, that means they can only use their very poor draft pick to improve. Which means developing a wild card of a player over time. Wade doesn't have that much time in his career to take that approach. With this core of players, they are in win now mode. They dont have the luxury of time the way the Spurs did when they were going through their down time.

Who said they weren't allowed to add FAs or make trades? I didn't. I'm specifically talking about buying a superstar.


He would say that, wonder if the Cavs delivered a similar message when trying to retain Bron.

Yes, he's a hypocrite but that doesn't make what he said wrong. To argue that would be a logical fallacy right?


Thing is, not every core can grow from within. Wade/Battier/Udonis/Ray Allen have all been in a steady decline for years, so to has Miami's ability to compensate for their lack of size with overwhelming athleticism.

They should have planned better instead of just trying to take a big chunk of the 2008 Olympic team and win.


Them waiving important heroes like Mike Miller speaks to the backwards thinking from that organization. Im sure they could improve in minor ways, but the way San Antonio beat them exposed chinks in their armor that I dont think they can compensate for without a shakeup of some kind. It doesn't have to be a huge addition but something that offsets their obvious weaknesses. Something similar to how San Antonio got KL in the first place would be ideal, but those kind of deals dont happen often and are still a toss up.

I'm saying the superstar philosophy is wasteful and has a short shelf life. The Heat are proving that to be true.

Regarding KL, 14 other teams had a shot at him on draft night. George Hill was a pretty hot commodity when the Spurs were shopping him. People want the Spurs assets. Funny thing is, when they get them, they mysteriously don't perform quite as well, which re-inforces my point about the strength of their internal development system. It's symbiotic: the players and the team thrive off each other. In a star ball system, the team is only as good as the stars are in that season or playoff series. Case in point: people dismiss MIA's "help" as old and worthless after one finals loss. Instant garbage. That, despite the fact that the players looked pretty good just a few weeks before. People are over-reacting to the fact that the Spurs just thoroughly outclassed them from FO to bench and every point in between.


Thing is, its not regardless of the "role players", there is a pretty big singular reason why they returned to contention after years of being something of a treadmill team that was susceptible to being upset. He was their Finals MVP. If the Heat could add a prospect of similar potential, they would gladly take it.

The Heat don't cultivate internal talent as well in any way. That's exactly my point. The Spurs groomed him. btw, he may not deliver at MVP levels from here on in. It's a bit naive if you've watched the Spurs to extrapolate from one series like that. Their team has a way of getting absolutely spectacular play out of one guy in one series and then another guy in another series. Their depth is remarkable that way.


I disagree, I think the Spurs were more talented, thought they were last year as well. They may not have the top heavy talent, but they have more pieces necessary to win.

I totally agree they have better quality (internally developed) depth. In fact, virtually everything about their talent is internally developed. Built not bought.


I really dont know what you would expect Miami to do in order to win with their talent but I think they did just fine in their prior 2 championships, they played beautiful basketball and played with a frenetic defensive system that I just dont see often, thing is, that talent degraded by standing pat for the most part.


Agree to disagree. Two weeks before the final the talent had not degraded. They were beaten by a better organization top to bottom. It's just this instant success/instant garbage star-think that discards so quickly that is so messed up.

Tony_Starks
06-23-2014, 02:34 PM
The biggest problem the Heat will have this year is incorporating Bosh into the offense. Lebron is going to have to adjust his game to give Bosh room to operate.

That is not a bad problem to have at all with players that talented in their primes....

Darc Mind
06-23-2014, 04:14 PM
The biggest problem the Heat will have this year is incorporating Bosh into the offense. Lebron is going to have to adjust his game to give Bosh room to operate.

That is not a bad problem to have at all with players that talented in their primes....

Its not that Lebron should adjust, its that Spo needs to use him as a big man. Lebron should never adjust his game. If Bosh is going to be the full time center, he needs to learn to post up and maybe gain a few pounds. He needs to limit his outside shooting and adjust his game. Not Lebron.

blahblahyoutoo
06-23-2014, 08:15 PM
meeks is available?
i like him. him and lowry.

RLundi
06-23-2014, 10:16 PM
Archaic? Their defense seemed just as bad in the Finals. They cant play the active/aggressive style anymore so a more traditional bigman might be better but I think of Bosh as a MUST HAVE. His range and defensive mobility are too important to what the Heat do best.

What they do best seems like it won't work anymore moving forward. I think the Spurs showed everyone how the Heat can consistently be beat (although a weakened Wade, porous defense and lack of a bench were also instrumental in their downfall). They need a true big man. Bosh was masquerading as one for a while, then they turned him into a stretch player but the fact is a big man works better for them, both offensively and defensively.

Wade is Miami's own and I suspect they'll always 'take care' of him, as much as that'll be to their detriment. They need better pieces and a more effective bench. Tbh, if they have to pay Wade, Bosh seems to be the odd man out.

FlashBolt
06-23-2014, 10:17 PM
Any team could use Meeks. Dude can ball.

DR_1
06-24-2014, 04:38 PM
Wouldn't be shocked if LeBron did as well to be honest, if Wade can sacrifice 10m a year for the HEAT, Bosh 5-6, LeBron could afford to take a 2-3 mill pay cut as well.

Please stop typing Heat in capital letters. We get it, you like them, but it distracts from the rest of the post.

kickflip.master
06-24-2014, 05:20 PM
the only way lebron stays in miami is if bosh takes a 15 mil per year deal and wade takes 10 mil per year deal. This is the only way they can contend for a championship.

NBA_Starter
06-24-2014, 05:28 PM
That is something I didn't expect but he should do the right thing and retire.

goingfor28
06-24-2014, 05:47 PM
I heard Mario Chalmers is also taking a paycut. Instead of a max contract, he will again go for the minimum.
Lol

goingfor28
06-24-2014, 05:49 PM
Please stop typing Heat in capital letters. We get it, you like them, but it distracts from the rest of the post.

:hi5: I'm not the only one!

I always read it like screaming. Like a 10 year old fanboy

but that's how it's written. oh. lol :rolleyes:

Spanklin
06-24-2014, 06:07 PM
Too bad the Heat will still be well over the cap after Wade's alleged $6,000,000/yr paycut. How you gonna replace just Shane Battier with the MLE, let alone every one of the other aged vets? Miami is done unless all three go down below $15,000,000/per.

Yeah, Lebron needs more help.

Phenomenonsense
06-24-2014, 06:52 PM
They would have to renounce there rights. But it can be done.

If they renounce the rights they can no longer go over the cap to resign them. Therefore it changes absolutely nothing.

Uncle Chuck
06-24-2014, 07:51 PM
the only way lebron stays in miami is if bosh takes a 15 mil per year deal and wade takes 10 mil per year deal. This is the only way they can contend for a championship.


I don't even think that's enough. Say Lebron at 18m, Bosh15m, Wade at 10m = 43m. add Haslem and Cole for another 6m. almost 50mil of your 63mil cap. AND a whole second unit to fill out.

Realistically, you need Bron at 18, Bosh at 12, and Wade at 8 to get a powerhouse lineup back.