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Mile High Champ
06-19-2014, 01:10 PM
Hey guys, It is that time of year again! Once again we kick of the PSD NBA Off-Season Player Rankings. This is the 7th year I have done this on PSD and it typically always makes for good deabte and often initates terrific discussion. Consider that when these polls first began, the likes of Baron Davis and Devin Harris were cracking these polls. Which player will you rank high this year that may get some raised eyebrows as the years pass by? Only time will tell. Please keep things civil and discuss who you feel is most fitting and deserving of being voted in each poll.

A lot has changed since last season. Tim Duncan and the San Antonio Spurs are NBA champions for the 5th time after getting some revenge for their finals loss last season to the Heat. We could be looking at the end of the big 3 era.

Let start the discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 6 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

For a player to be eligible for this years poll, they must of played in a minimum of 10 games.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best. Though we do recognize that some voters will vote based soley on potential and others by last years numbers.

1) Chris Paul
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)




2013 Off-Season PSD PG Rankings
1) Chris Paul
2) Tony Parker
3) Russel Westbrook
4) Stephen Curry
5) Kyrie Irving
6) Deron Williams
7) Rajon Rondo
8) Mike Conley
9) John Wall
10) Ty Lawson

2012 Off-Season PSD PG Rankings
1) Chris Paul
2) Derrick Rose
3) Russell Westbrook
4) Deron Williams
5) Rajon Rondo
6) Tony Parker
7) Steve Nash
8) Kyrie Irving
9) Kyle Lowry
10) Ty Lawson

2011 Off-Season PSD PG Rankings
1) Chris Paul
2) Derrick Rose
3) Deron Williams
4) Russell Westbrook
5) Steve Nash
6) Rajon Rondo
7) Tony Parker
8) Jason Kidd
9) Chauncey Billups
10) Stephen Curry

2010 Off-Season PSD PG Rankings
1) Deron Williams
2) Chris Paul
3) Steve Nash
4) Rajon Rondo
5) Derrick Rose
6) Chauncey Billups
7) Russel Westbrook
8) Tony Parker
9) Jason Kidd
10) Tyreke Evans

2009 Off-Season PSD PG Rankings
1) Chris Paul
2) Deron Williams
3) Chauncey Billups
4) Tony Parker
5) Steve Nash
6) Derrick Rose
7) Devin Harris
8) Rajon Rondo
9) Jose Calderon
10) Jason Kidd

2008 Off-Season PSD PG Rankings
1) Chris Paul
2) Steve Nash
3) Deron Williams
4) Baron Davis
5) Tony Parker
6) Jason Kidd
7) Chauncey Billups
8) Gilbert Arenas
9) Jose Calderon
10) Andre Miller

Jeffy25
06-19-2014, 01:12 PM
Parker, Westbrook are the first two to come to mind, but I'll think about it and look up info before voting

Mile High Champ
06-19-2014, 01:14 PM
Mods please sticky.

Crackadalic
06-19-2014, 01:43 PM
To me it's curry or Westbrook. Curry had the better season and Westbrook miss time but Westbrook had a hell of a playoff run

Chronz
06-19-2014, 01:44 PM
Did I miss the first voting ballot? CP3 is no longer the best at his position, he may have had the best season, but Westbrook has done enough IMO.

sixers247
06-19-2014, 01:59 PM
Did I miss the first voting ballot? CP3 is no longer the best at his position, he may have had the best season, but Westbrook has done enough IMO.

Wait what? he is not the best but he may have had the best season? lol.

ManningToTyree
06-19-2014, 02:11 PM
Curry

Greet
06-19-2014, 02:23 PM
Tony Parker here for me. He's just everything I'd want in a point guard and more.

Bruno
06-19-2014, 02:42 PM
tough choice for me between Curry and Westbrook.

Shammyguy3
06-19-2014, 02:45 PM
Curry by the slightest of margins for me. Westbrook/Curry and Chris Paul are almost neck-and-neck. It'll be a weird day when Chris Paul isn't the consensus best PG in the game.

Jamiecballer
06-19-2014, 03:39 PM
i was stuck between Parker and Curry. i know Curry produces enough to deserve it but i went with Parker because i believe he could produce a lot more if he was wired that way.

FYL_McVeezy
06-19-2014, 03:48 PM
This one's easy too. Tony Parker. Russ is a good player, but not the 2nd best POINT GUARD in the league. No way no how!!!

ManRam
06-19-2014, 03:57 PM
I picked Westbrook over Curry. Mainly because I like Westbrook more than Curry. They're more or less neck and neck though. A very strong argument could be made for either. I'm just a tad biased towards my boy Russy

Bruno
06-19-2014, 04:24 PM
parker voters.

what say you of his statistical drop off between this year in last. it's substantial, in both regular season and playoffs. I think he can go 4th at best based off the year he just had.

akia83
06-19-2014, 04:32 PM
Please put Lillard and Dragic in the next (if Dragic isn't a SG), it's embarrassing seeing D-Rose and D-Will, and I'm a Bulls fan.
Westbrook here.

Bruno
06-19-2014, 04:33 PM
Please put Lillard and Dragic in the next (if Dragic isn't a SG), it's embarrassing seeing D-Rose and D-Will, and I'm a Bulls fan.
Westbrook here.

Lillard should be an option starting with the next thread, I agree.

I figured we'd call Dragic a SG? I don't know what MHCs plan with The Dragon is.

Bruno
06-19-2014, 04:35 PM
three headed statistical comparison between Curry, Westbrook and Parker:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=westbru01&y1=2014&p2=curryst01&y2=2014&p3=parketo01&y3=2014

Sportfan
06-19-2014, 04:40 PM
Curry does the most for his team out of the top 3 guys

DR_1
06-19-2014, 05:18 PM
My gut says Curry but I need to think on it.

tredigs
06-19-2014, 06:11 PM
Depends what you need between Westbrook/Curry, but Steph fits more teams and is the more potent and dangerous offensive weapon. Better scorer and similar if not better facilitator; underrated and smart rebounder. Westbrook is better defensively (though gambles too much and is far from an elite defender due to a lacking in BBIQ), a great offensive rebounder and a great penetrator with an improved mid-range game. Curry generally outproduces him in OKC/GSW matchups and is who I feel is the more talented player (also, my favorite player to watch), therefore I'm going him.

Led Westbrook in PPG/APG/SPG, WS, Offensive rating, WAR and RPM for what it's worth.

IversonIsKrazy
06-19-2014, 07:56 PM
Went w/Tony. He'd be avging a whole lot more if he played outside the spurs system.

Bruno
06-19-2014, 07:58 PM
Went w/Tony. He'd be avging a whole lot more if he played outside the spurs system.

he averaged a whole lot more last year playing within the Spurs system though.

Allphakenny1
06-19-2014, 08:02 PM
Why is Westbrook winning this? Curry is better in most counting stats as well as advanced stats. Is it because Westbrook's team went further in the playoffs? Curry is a top 5 player in the league right now!

kdspurman
06-19-2014, 09:46 PM
he averaged a whole lot more last year playing within the Spurs system though.

Part of that is because Pop played him less due to the finals run last year, then the French National Team in the summer and anticipated long run this year. I just think he is I guess the safest bet? If that makes sense? I feel like in a tight game, out of the 3, I'd want the ball in his hands cause I trust his judgement the best. His numbers aren't as good, but his role is different of course. And I don't think he's that far off even with the lesser role/system.

Corey
06-19-2014, 11:36 PM
Depends what you need between Westbrook/Curry, but Steph fits more teams and is the more potent and dangerous offensive weapon. Better scorer and similar if not better facilitator; underrated and smart rebounder. Westbrook is better defensively (though gambles too much and is far from an elite defender due to a lacking in BBIQ), a great offensive rebounder and a great penetrator with an improved mid-range game. Curry generally outproduces him in OKC/GSW matchups and is who I feel is the more talented player (also, my favorite player to watch), therefore I'm going him.

Led Westbrook in PPG/APG/SPG, WS, Offensive rating, WAR and RPM for what it's worth.

I was picking Curry before I looked at stats or read this post.

Still going with him :up:

At the end of the day, I think OKC is better with Curry than they are with Westbrook :shrug:

xnick5757
06-19-2014, 11:41 PM
I was picking Curry before I looked at stats or read this post.

Still going with him :up:

At the end of the day, I think OKC is better with Curry than they are with Westbrook :shrug:


Curry + Durant would be so incredibly efficient scoring wise

Sadds The Gr8
06-20-2014, 12:11 AM
Depends what you need between Westbrook/Curry, but Steph fits more teams and is the more potent and dangerous offensive weapon. Better scorer and similar if not better facilitator; underrated and smart rebounder. Westbrook is better defensively (though gambles too much and is far from an elite defender due to a lacking in BBIQ), a great offensive rebounder and a great penetrator with an improved mid-range game. Curry generally outproduces him in OKC/GSW matchups and is who I feel is the more talented player (also, my favorite player to watch), therefore I'm going him.

Led Westbrook in PPG/APG/SPG, WS, Offensive rating, WAR and RPM for what it's worth.

yea. people don't realize how much Westbrook gets owned on defense, but because of his aggressive style, it "looks" good and people assume he's a great defender.

Chronz
06-20-2014, 01:08 AM
Wait what? he is not the best but he may have had the best season? lol.

My bad, I meant regular Season.

Westbrook had a shining post season.

Which matters more to you?

koreancabbage
06-20-2014, 10:01 AM
I was picking Curry before I looked at stats or read this post.

Still going with him :up:

At the end of the day, I think OKC is better with Curry than they are with Westbrook :shrug:

meh, i don't think it would. Westbrook keeps the defense out of whack with his ability to drive and finish around the rim.

Curry + Durant would be efficient but they wouldn't go far.

and Westbrook > Curry overall, just because Curry can't guard Westbrook one on one.

Greet
06-20-2014, 11:09 AM
Tony Parker is the key piece in what has been the most efficient offense for years. I think he's getting way over looked here.

Sadds The Gr8
06-20-2014, 11:56 AM
Tony Parker is the key piece in what has been the most efficient offense for years. I think he's getting way over looked here.
the offense still runs Damn well without him. I've seen them win several games against good teams without him there or playing well. Parker was pretty garbage for his standards in the playoffs and they still won a title. it's mostly that system...

As a matter of fact, he was below his standards the whole season...don't see an argument for top 3 this year.

ManRam
06-20-2014, 12:07 PM
Tony Parker is the key piece in what has been the most efficient offense for years. I think he's getting way over looked here.

He's a piece. "Key piece"? Nah. That doesn't exist on the Spurs. They've shown plenty of times how they don't miss a beat when he's not playing. Just look at his on/off numbers. They were a net +14 per 100 possessions with him on the bench and +8 with him on the court. A similar trend in the regular season too.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2014/on-off/

He's not getting overlooked. He's on a better team than RWB and Curry, but that doesn't make him magically better than them.

Bruno
06-20-2014, 01:34 PM
Part of that is because Pop played him less due to the finals run last year, then the French National Team in the summer and anticipated long run this year. I just think he is I guess the safest bet? If that makes sense? I feel like in a tight game, out of the 3, I'd want the ball in his hands cause I trust his judgement the best. His numbers aren't as good, but his role is different of course. And I don't think he's that far off even with the lesser role/system.

i know, i was reading that pop bumped him down 2.5 minutes a game. but his per 36 numbers are also down across the board. his regular season was statistically below average for him (7th on his own team in WS/48 for the regular season).


his playoffs look like that of an average player (PER of 15.7 and a WS/48 of .071).

That playoff WS/48 of 0.71 ranks 13th out of 14th on the Spurs roster for the playoffs. Literally every single san antonio Spur other than Austin Daye posted a better WS/48 than Parker. he was slyly ineffective. He was 8th on the Spurs in PER for the playoffs.

statistically speaking, he was that far off. his playoff numbers were pretty terrible considering the success of the Spurs. Curry dominated the regular season (more than doubled Parkers regular season win-shares and Westbrook dominated the playoffs.)

if you look at the numbers he really doesn't have an argument.

tredigs
06-20-2014, 01:45 PM
meh, i don't think it would. Westbrook keeps the defense out of whack with his ability to drive and finish around the rim.

Curry + Durant would be efficient but they wouldn't go far.

and Westbrook > Curry overall, just because Curry can't guard Westbrook one on one.

But, you think Westbrook can? Haha. Not even close.

I truly do think Curry's a better player (he really just demands attention at a rate that arguably no other player matches, and still puts up the #'s he does), and a step ahead of Westbrook overall, but I'm a fan of both of their games and after Westbrook's playoff run this poll doesn't surprise me. Not a bad choice, either.

koreancabbage
06-20-2014, 02:06 PM
But, you think Westbrook can? Haha. Not even close.

I truly do think Curry's a better player (he really just demands attention at a rate that arguably no other player matches, and still puts up the #'s he does), and a step ahead of Westbrook overall, but I'm a fan of both of their games and after Westbrook's playoff run this poll doesn't surprise me. Not a bad choice, either.
No, I think westbrook can if it was straight up one on one. I think he would have more success guarding Curry one on one than Curry guarding westbrook.

If there were picks involved, Curry is deadly bc if westbrook goes under the screen, Curry can quick release.

I think overall westbrook is the better athlete and on both ends of the floor. Curry can leave a lot to be desired on the defensive end.

tredigs
06-20-2014, 02:14 PM
No, I think westbrook can if it was straight up one on one. I think he would have more success guarding Curry one on one than Curry guarding westbrook.

If there were picks involved, Curry is deadly bc if westbrook goes under the screen, Curry can quick release.

I think overall westbrook is the better athlete and on both ends of the floor. Curry can leave a lot to be desired on the defensive end.
It's an irrelevant scenario seeing as it is a team game and they will never be simply 1v1 with no potential for picks or help D, but I have seen them in isolation a ton of times and Curry's handles/quick-release + Westbrook's overaggressive D is just a comical combo. He absolutely roasts him.

On the other end when Curry is matched up with him he just gives Westbrook space and either lets him shoot or tries to get him clogged in the paint. The bonus is that there's little threat of a 3 ball, but obviously Curry can't stop Westbrook 1v1 either.

D-Leethal
06-20-2014, 02:40 PM
Westbrook - Curry - Parker

tredigs
06-20-2014, 03:36 PM
I was picking Curry before I looked at stats or read this post.

Still going with him :up:

At the end of the day, I think OKC is better with Curry than they are with Westbrook :shrug:

Actually I agree. He'd open up Durant more and Sefolosha is a very good compliment to Steph defensively (even if he is marginally improved on that end and decent overall, he still needs help with large guards). There's no way a team with KD should not have a top 5 offense, and despite Brooks ineptitude I think they'd be 1-3 with Curry.

Sadds The Gr8
06-20-2014, 06:18 PM
No, I think westbrook can if it was straight up one on one. I think he would have more success guarding Curry one on one than Curry guarding westbrook.

If there were picks involved, Curry is deadly bc if westbrook goes under the screen, Curry can quick release.

I think overall westbrook is the better athlete and on both ends of the floor. Curry can leave a lot to be desired on the defensive end.
that's irrelevant in this discussion. Lots of players are good 1v1 but complete garbage at team ball. Using picks well makes you a good player...i dont see why that can be used as an argument against Curry.

I think Curry is slightly better but there's clearly an argument for both. Just think your "picks/screens" argument is bogus. Westbrook's biggest weakness on defense is ability to guard PnR's

bootypants
06-20-2014, 07:21 PM
where is Lillard & Dragic.

Not voting either top 3 but i take both over a few on the list lol.

THE MTL
06-20-2014, 07:31 PM
If ur judging solely on this season then its Steph Curry and its no question

NYKNYGNYY
06-20-2014, 08:20 PM
Curry... IMO Westbrook should be a 2 guard

DR_1
06-20-2014, 08:31 PM
I'm going to go Curry. Shame I forgot to actually vote lol.

Oh and why is D-Rose an option? I obviously like him (look at my username!) but he barely played last season. Guys like Lillard should at least get more consideration.

jerellh528
06-20-2014, 11:04 PM
How is lillard not on the list? He's probably a top 5 pg

bgdreton
06-21-2014, 12:00 AM
Curry and it's not even close based on just the pass year. He played the most of the 3 we are arguing. Is really the only dominate player on the warriors plus our iso system sucked but he still put up numbers. If Parker and curry switched he would score 30 a game in that system prob. Westbrook didn't play enough games this year.

FlashBolt
06-21-2014, 02:19 AM
Curry's defense is completely crap and I don't see what he does better than Westbrook at other than shooting. Gimme Westbrook. Though, I'd rather have a pair of Curry/Durant than Westbrook. That would be beautiful.

Sadds The Gr8
06-21-2014, 01:22 PM
Curry's defense is completely crap and I don't see what he does better than Westbrook at other than shooting. Gimme Westbrook. Though, I'd rather have a pair of Curry/Durant than Westbrook. That would be beautiful.
Passing?

Kaner
06-21-2014, 02:06 PM
Curry's defense is completely crap and I don't see what he does better than Westbrook at other than shooting. Gimme Westbrook. Though, I'd rather have a pair of Curry/Durant than Westbrook. That would be beautiful.

Curry's defense hasn't been crap for years, He's got better court vision and is a better passer. In general though Curry just runs an offense alot better then Westbrook can.

ManRam
06-21-2014, 08:03 PM
Passing?

Negligible at best.

bucketss
06-21-2014, 10:29 PM
tough choice but luckily the poll is already closed lol.

Kashmir13579
06-21-2014, 11:27 PM
Parker

DoMeFavors
06-22-2014, 12:41 AM
Surprised Deron got zero votes, only a few yrs ago he was voted best PG in NBA

mightybosstone
06-22-2014, 09:54 AM
I'm surprised Westbrook won so easily over Curry. I would have picked Curry here. I just think he's the more superior offensive player and this postseason wasn't a large enough sample size to sway my opinion toward Westbrook. Curry ought to win the next one by a landslide. I love Parker, but he doesn't remotely belong in the same conversation as those top three guys anymore. Hell, I'd put some serious consideration into putting Lillard or Dragic over him.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-22-2014, 07:20 PM
Surprised Deron got zero votes, only a few yrs ago he was voted best PG in NBA

Incorrectly.

Kashmir13579
06-22-2014, 08:06 PM
Surprised Deron got zero votes, only a few yrs ago he was voted best PG in NBA ankles

alexander_37
06-23-2014, 01:39 AM
Really??????

It should have went Parker, Curry, Westbrook.

koreancabbage
06-23-2014, 11:20 AM
Surprised Deron got zero votes, only a few yrs ago he was voted best PG in NBA


Incorrectly.

LOL pretty sums it all up. In the end, DW was NEVER the best PG in the entire league even if he won best PG over CP a few years ago in the PSD realm.

Outside Sloan's system, even if DW was healthy , he would never become a championship PG.

Greet
06-23-2014, 01:21 PM
Curry and it's not even close based on just the pass year. He played the most of the 3 we are arguing. Is really the only dominate player on the warriors plus our iso system sucked but he still put up numbers. If Parker and curry switched he would score 30 a game in that system prob. Westbrook didn't play enough games this year.

Do you (and anyone else) seriously believe that a guy like Curry/Westbrook could just be plugged into Pops system in place of Parker and be more successful? I think that's complete disrespect to Tony Parker. He should win the next vote, and he should have won this vote.

Allphakenny1
06-23-2014, 01:33 PM
^ If they are better players (which they are), then Pop would get more out of them then he does Parker. Maybe you are just disrespecting Pop as a coach. It should have been 1. Paul, 2. Curry, 3. Westbrook & 4. Parker.

koreancabbage
06-23-2014, 05:09 PM
Surprised Deron got zero votes, only a few yrs ago he was voted best PG in NBA


Do you (and anyone else) seriously believe that a guy like Curry/Westbrook could just be plugged into Pops system in place of Parker and be more successful? I think that's complete disrespect to Tony Parker. He should win the next vote, and he should have won this vote.

yes. I think they will be. As long as the ball doesn't stick to one man's hands, any of the top PGs could be an awesome PG

Bruno
06-23-2014, 06:38 PM
Surprised Deron got zero votes, only a few yrs ago he was voted best PG in NBA

2010 was more than a few years ago. Deron would be lucky to crack top ten at the most stacked position in the league today after the mediocre season he just had.

Jarvo
06-23-2014, 07:08 PM
Westbrook should have been #1 and Parker #2

Allphakenny1
06-23-2014, 09:16 PM
^ Hahaha, WOW!

bgdreton
06-25-2014, 03:39 AM
Westbrook should have been #1 and Parker #2

Ummm no just no... Westbrook doesn't run an offense at all and doesn't seem like he cares to. Plus he was hurt most of the season. As I said before it is difficult to rate players from the spurs except for Duncan bc Pops system to so far and away better than anyone else's. Every year some old bum or unknown player goes ham in thier system. Can I say Gary Neal where is he now rotting on a bucks team I believe. Thats just one example but people here on PSD vastly underrate Pop as a coach. Cp3 would probably be the best PG to run that system actually.

tredigs
06-25-2014, 06:14 AM
So, going on about a week later we're still on "#2 PG" of 10 PG's, and we're expecting to do a top 10 of all 5 positions? And this is after the poll has been closed for 4 or 5 days? Is this a year long event?

MillHigh, you must be busy - which is a good thing - but let's go ahead and pass this off to somebody who can actually run the votes, or not have it at all.

bgdreton
06-25-2014, 02:32 PM
It's has been forever lol..