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Jeffy25
06-17-2014, 01:43 PM
Where do you think Lebron will be playing next year, and what do you think is necessary for him to go somewhere?

What would Miami have to do to retain him?

Htownballa1622
06-17-2014, 01:48 PM
He'll probably play in every city at least once.

jk haha. :silly:

I think he'll stay in Miami and they'll have Wade/Bosh take pay cuts.

I think he should go to Houston. :dance:

Jeffy25
06-17-2014, 01:50 PM
Who is going to have significant cap room going into next season?

-Kobe24-TJ19-
06-17-2014, 01:53 PM
Lakers

GREATNESS ONE
06-17-2014, 01:57 PM
Lakers


Hahaha all hell would break loose.

c.c.
06-17-2014, 01:59 PM
Rockets would be a nice fit for him. He should come out here an have a talk with Morey, a few players, and staff members.

pebloemer
06-17-2014, 02:00 PM
I still think he stays in Miami.

But I could see a scenario where Lakers, Rockets or Cavs are able to get him. I just don't think it is likely.

abe_froman
06-17-2014, 02:02 PM
i say rockets,staying,cleveland in that order

gatkins11
06-17-2014, 02:03 PM
Dallas, but I'm biased. Haha.

Raidaz4Life
06-17-2014, 02:04 PM
Cleveland is my guess, I would imagine he wants to repair his image with his hometown before he retires.

mRc08
06-17-2014, 02:06 PM
He's staying in Miami. I don't think he really wants to live through another "leaving a city" situation. Plus if the spurs showed us anything its that you do not overreact and blow up a team if you lose in the finals.

Crackadalic
06-17-2014, 02:11 PM
Miami. He still gets a bye in the east even if every team in there improves. All they really have to do is getting younger in certain places and get wade to play a third option role instead

ohreally
06-17-2014, 10:49 PM
For his image and legacy I think he has to stay in Miami, though going back to Cleveland would probably repair his image for some folks and at least accepted by a majority since it's his hometown.

SPURSFAN1
06-17-2014, 10:53 PM
I was thinking he would go to houston but then I thought he'd get exposed in our division. He wouldn't wanna go there. He'd have to go up against real teams many times in a season.

Chrisclover
06-17-2014, 10:58 PM
Cleveland is my guess, I would imagine he wants to repair his image with his hometown before he retires.
but Gilbert!

Htownballa1622
06-17-2014, 11:10 PM
I was thinking he would go to houston but then I thought he'd get exposed in our division. He wouldn't wanna go there. He'd have to go up against real teams many times in a season.

Exposed? We were already 11-5 in our division with 4 wins coming against your spurs.

I think it'd be tougher for him because the west but not the division so much. Plus our team is already good. Adding the best player on the planet would help.

It's a moot point cuz I don't think he's coming, but he should.

Yanks All Day
06-17-2014, 11:10 PM
I was thinking he would go to houston but then I thought he'd get exposed in our division. He wouldn't wanna go there. He'd have to go up against real teams many times in a season.

Exposed as.... the greatest player on the planet? Not really sure why he'd be afraid to go there when he plays well against legitimately every team in the league.

Where should he go? The Clippers. Sign and trade LeBron for Griffin. The Heat get a young star in Blake and the Clips get the player to put em over the top. Doc, CP3, and Deandre are 3 things LeBron has never had: A Hall of Fame coach, super star PG (who is a close friend), and a rim protecting, athletic big man. Add in Redick, Dudley, and Barnes as shooters and Crawford as the 6th man and the Clippers have everything it takes to win it all.

Where will he end up? Probably Miami. I'd guess he has confidence that Pat Riley will re-tool the squad for next year's Finals. The Heat would be the favorites to win the East every year for the next 5-6 years just because of LeBron and have already been there 4 times in a row. They don't need a complete overhaul. Just a piece or two.

Asik's better
06-17-2014, 11:15 PM
He stays in miami until his last season where he goes back to Cleveland for a farewell season.

SPURSFAN1
06-17-2014, 11:16 PM
Exposed? We were already 11-5 in our division with 4 wins coming against your spurs.

I think it'd be tougher for him because the west but not the division so much. Plus our team is already good. Adding the best player on the planet would help.

It's a moot point cuz I don't think he's coming, but he should.

How'd that work out?

Htownballa1622
06-17-2014, 11:19 PM
How'd that work out?

Clearly, you're missing the point. I'm not saying the Rockets were better than the Spurs.

I'm saying they already did well in the division. Adding lebron could (in theory) only help rather than "expose."

Reading comprehension = key.

But nice subliminal jab. ;)

SPURSFAN1
06-17-2014, 11:22 PM
Clearly, you're missing the point. I'm not saying the Rockets were better than the Spurs.

I'm saying they already did well in the division. Adding lebron could (in theory) only help rather than "expose."

Reading comprehension = key.

But nice subliminal jab. ;)

I might add that Kawhi Leonard didn't play in like 2 or 3 and a lot of other injuries occured while we played ya. I reckon this year will be different.

torocan
06-17-2014, 11:28 PM
I think he probably stays in Miami (50/50), but if he doesn't I think it's a toss up between Houston and Cleveland.

Long shots would be Chicago, Dallas and the Clippers (assuming Sterling is gone).

kingkenny01
06-17-2014, 11:39 PM
Cleveland, with the possibility of a Irving and a trade for love I know he said he didn't want to go but lebron james is tempting

Htownballa1622
06-17-2014, 11:43 PM
I might add that Kawhi Leonard didn't play in like 2 or 3 and a lot of other injuries occured while we played ya. I reckon this year will be different.

Yeah like I said. I'm not talking about Houston being better. I'm just alluding to the point that Lebron would be fine in the southwest division imo.

I'm sure things will be diff this year. I'd gladly take losing to Spurs 4-0 and instead winning a chip like y'all just did. No question playoffs/finals win is better than a 4-0 regular season sweep we'll forget next year.

Champions are forever.

SPURSFAN1
06-17-2014, 11:44 PM
Yeah like I said. I'm not talking about Houston being better. I'm just alluding to the point that Lebron would be fine in the southwest division imo.

I'm sure things will be diff this year. I'd gladly take losing to Spurs 4-0 and instead winning a chip like y'all just did. No question playoffs/finals win is better than a 4-0 regular season sweep we'll forget next year.

Champions are forever.

:cheers:

prodigy
06-17-2014, 11:47 PM
Lakers are out, if I need to explain why you don't know sports. I also think any teams like rockets and bulls are out. Because he would be known as a title hopper and that could destroy his legacy. Knicks or nets are possible but both teams have so much money and crap players that they could be years away.

End of the day its heat or cavs. Heat has a destroyed wade and a 6'11 shooting who had a combine avg of 17 pts in playoffs,... by the numbers they were worse then cavs of 2007.

Cavs have enough cap to sign 2 max player's , #1 pick, young talented players. Not only could they sign 2 max contracts they could also trade for a star with the #1. So many options. Also a Very deep team.

Verbal Christ
06-17-2014, 11:52 PM
Adrain Wojanewski or however you spell his name said on the Dan Patrick show that Houston could be in the mix. 3 words HO LEE SHEET !!

I'd trade Harden and whatever and pair up Bron and Howard.

NJrockPD
06-18-2014, 02:12 PM
I was wondering how Houston would be in the mix. Would they be able to keep Harden and Howard with Lebron?

nickdymez
06-18-2014, 02:17 PM
Cleveland is the only place he could leave for. If he goes anywhere else then his legacy is over and he'll just be known as Stat stuffer with no heart and no determination

sep11ie
06-18-2014, 02:18 PM
I didn't think Dwight and LeBron got along anyways?

sep11ie
06-18-2014, 02:19 PM
I know it would be great for the team, but man it would be hard to root for the Rockets still if they got LeBron.

jerellh528
06-18-2014, 02:20 PM
I dont think james and howard would fit that well.
He's best off staying in miami, MAYBE going back to cleveland

torocan
06-18-2014, 02:25 PM
Never going to happen, but I think it would be intriguing to see Lebron go to the Spurs and play the Spurs way... IE, take a step back, not worry about MVP's, facilitate, etc.

Would people hold him in the same high esteem if he was putting up 20ppg instead of 28? Would they still accuse him of being passive if he was zipping the ball around with the likes of Diaw and Manu?

Would he still be considered a ring chaser? Would the public perception of the Spurs change?

Never going to happen, but Lebron being coached by Pops would be interesting to say the least...

Mell413
06-18-2014, 02:27 PM
I say he stays in Miami. Even as bad as wade and bosh were in the finals I think Miami has a good chance to make the finals again. I don't think they have to make huge changes in order to win another title.

PhillyBronco08
06-18-2014, 02:54 PM
i think he stays, but if he leaves im going with a sleeper pick.. Ive been hearign rumors of the 76ers

That they sign Lebron and Kevin Love to max contracts (they have over 40 mill in cap space + they can get rid of thad young)

MCW
WIGGINS/PARKER
LEBRON
LOVE
NOEL
AND WHOEVER THEY TAKE AT 10

THAT LOOKS LIKE A DANGEROUS TEAM

Cubs420
06-18-2014, 03:09 PM
He's staying in Miami. I don't think he really wants to live through another "leaving a city" situation. Plus if the spurs showed us anything its that you do not overreact and blow up a team if you lose in the finals.

This

Lebron is a smart guy, no way in hell he puts himself in a situation this year to be criticized like that. He is staying in Miami for at least another year.

Aust
06-18-2014, 04:11 PM
Can't see LAL or CLE, I just can't picture that.

RaiderLakersA's
06-18-2014, 04:12 PM
I firmly believe that he'll be in Miami next season.

Iron24th
06-18-2014, 04:25 PM
He'll probably stay, too risky for him to leave.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-19-2014, 04:27 AM
Who cares. This is the year Lebron starts his decline IMO. It's the Leonard and Durant era now.

amos1er
06-19-2014, 04:37 AM
Who cares. This is the year Lebron starts his decline IMO. It's the Leonard and Durant era now.

To me it looks like he started his decline this past season... Could have something to do with his minutes played though, but he just doesn't look the same and Durant is only getting better.

PurpleLynch
06-19-2014, 05:23 AM
I think he will stay in Miami. He's loved there,has won 2 championships and reached 4 Nba Finals and Pat Riley is still the boss in the organization. But Heat's FO must do a great job of working on the free angency and cutting absolutely Bosh & Wade contract.Bosh 14 millions per year and Wade 10 millions per year imo and they should accept that.Then,should they go after Monroe?He's not a star,but he gets the job done and Miami desperately needs a center.

shauneazy
06-19-2014, 06:32 AM
Let's be real.

The only place that he will have the best shot at winning and getting paid is Philadelphia.

You have MCW, Noel, Thad for trade bait if you decide to move him, a number 3 pick for either Wiggins, Parker or Embiid, the No. 10 pick and a boat load of money.

He'll get his max deal and they can sign marquee free agents to surround him.

Young and promising players, max contract, playing in the East and coach Brown coming from the San Antonio system.. what could be better?

RateSports
06-19-2014, 09:27 AM
Miami or Cleveland.

Period.

RateSports
06-19-2014, 09:32 AM
Who cares. This is the year Lebron starts his decline IMO. It's the Leonard and Durant era now.

This is hysterical.

Heatcheck
06-19-2014, 10:14 AM
To me it looks like he started his decline this past season... Could have something to do with his minutes played though, but he just doesn't look the same and Durant is only getting better.

couldn't agree more...between putting up 27 7 & 6 on 56% shooting for the season, and that stinker of a finals, averaging 28 8 & 4 on 58% shooting, im not sure hes even worth a max contract.

RateSports
06-19-2014, 10:38 AM
To me it looks like he started his decline this past season... Could have something to do with his minutes played though, but he just doesn't look the same and Durant is only getting better.

How dare he not win MVP EVERY year?!

I mean the nerve of LeBron to decline this quick.

Tony_Starks
06-19-2014, 11:28 AM
He stays in Miami. If he were to run to yet another team to ring chase even his apologist would have a hard time defending him.....

cdnsportsfan
06-19-2014, 11:42 AM
Where should he go? The Clippers. Sign and trade LeBron for Griffin. The Heat get a young star in Blake and the Clips get the player to put em over the top. Doc, CP3, and Deandre are 3 things LeBron has never had: A Hall of Fame coach, super star PG (who is a close friend), and a rim protecting, athletic big man. Add in Redick, Dudley, and Barnes as shooters and Crawford as the 6th man and the Clippers have everything it takes to win it all.

This would be his ideal situation, imho - great coaching, a solid young team and a great supporting cast. Plus he's in LA, so he stays in the spotlight big time. I can't see that Clippers team falling short of the Finals next season if he's there.

Though why S&T Griffin for LeBron when he'll become a FA? I'd try and move Griffin for current and future draft picks, trade exceptions and/or players they could buy out easily. The Heat mortgaged their future to win big with superstars, I could see the Clips solidify their future by moving Griffin. Build more than a championship team, build a legacy!

FYL_McVeezy
06-19-2014, 11:48 AM
Bucks

amak316
06-19-2014, 12:04 PM
Miami and Melo comes over. He's retiring on the heat for sure. He doesn't need the pressure that comes with forming a new super team.

bootypants
06-19-2014, 12:07 PM
How'd that work out?

You are lucky you guys played the Blazers imho. Don't get too cocky claiming you are better than teams you didn't even have to play. Also lucky Randolph was suspended vs OKC because the Clips or Griz would have been a harder challenge than an ibaka-less OKC.

bootypants
06-19-2014, 12:10 PM
This is hysterical.

I just laughed my way into a fresh 6-pack. Beach time.

Jeffy25
06-19-2014, 01:20 PM
If I'm Lebron, I determine staying in Miami if Wade takes a paycut and that money goes to a big guy to help rebound and defend in the paint. Can you imagine if they added Gasol? Even though his defense isn't great, that would be an insane lineup.


If that can't happen, then Cleveland actually makes a lot of sense.....in a lot of ways.


Miami

PG - Chalmers I guess
SG - Allen/Wade
SF - Lebron
PF - Bosh
C - Gasol

That's a mean team, everybody can score

RateSports
06-19-2014, 03:43 PM
Cleveland (Potentially if LBJ Committed Early)

Irving
Waiters
LeBron
Melo
Embid

That is a legitimate title contending team.


Or

Irving
Waiters
LeBron
Melo
Love

prodigy
06-19-2014, 04:23 PM
Cleveland (Potentially if LBJ Committed Early)

Irving
Waiters
LeBron
Melo
Embid

That is a legitimate title contending team.


Or

Irving
Waiters
LeBron
Melo
Love

Funny thing is this is very possible.

But question to people who say heat, im not trolling or anything just want an honest answer. What's the reasons for him to stay there?

Wade had a horrible playoffs and injury plagued regular season. He's just about done. Yet he will opt in at max money. Bosh is a 6'11 SG who can't rebound or defend. He will opt in for max money. So if lebron opts in for max money how is this team any better the this years? Lebron killed his self this past season and he don't wanna do that again.

They all will not take big enough pay cuts to get Carmelo or anything like that. So how do they get better? All they can do is sign washed up players to league mim.

IKnowHoops
06-19-2014, 07:09 PM
This would be his ideal situation, imho - great coaching, a solid young team and a great supporting cast. Plus he's in LA, so he stays in the spotlight big time. I can't see that Clippers team falling short of the Finals next season if he's there.

Though why S&T Griffin for LeBron when he'll become a FA? I'd try and move Griffin for current and future draft picks, trade exceptions and/or players they could buy out easily. The Heat mortgaged their future to win big with superstars, I could see the Clips solidify their future by moving Griffin. Build more than a championship team, build a legacy!

No, you don't get rid of your youngest star to solidify your future. You find a way to keep your two best players. (CP3, and Blake) and add Lebron to that. Otherwise its a lateral move or downgrade for Bron. No way they get rid of Blake. Watching Blake and Bron on the same team would really fun. I'd try and keep Deandre too. Let everyone go. If Bron could get 15 million, Id bet he'd play with Paul, Blake, and Deandre.

bucketss
06-19-2014, 07:15 PM
looks like arison is just gonna disband the dynasty, dude is cheap now. he amenistied miller,instead of using the draft pick to try and pick up someone solid he instead used it to unload joel anthony, he also didn't use the mid level exception.. hes let this roster age and i don't see him wanting to spend,

NYKNYGNYY
06-19-2014, 07:33 PM
I hate when people ruin polls I really like to see honest opinions....people really put Milwaukee and 4 ppl put Utah...smh

the knicks arnt to farfetched with Phil there but still 1/100 chance

NYKNYGNYY
06-19-2014, 07:34 PM
but I think he stays in Miami

slight chance he goes back to Cleveland only 2 possibilities I see

todu82
06-19-2014, 08:17 PM
He's staying in Miami.

NBA_Starter
06-19-2014, 08:47 PM
Miami or with the Clippers

IKnowHoops
06-19-2014, 10:25 PM
Funny thing is this is very possible.

But question to people who say heat, im not trolling or anything just want an honest answer. What's the reasons for him to stay there?

Wade had a horrible playoffs and injury plagued regular season. He's just about done. Yet he will opt in at max money. Bosh is a 6'11 SG who can't rebound or defend. He will opt in for max money. So if lebron opts in for max money how is this team any better the this years? Lebron killed his self this past season and he don't wanna do that again.

They all will not take big enough pay cuts to get Carmelo or anything like that. So how do they get better? All they can do is sign washed up players to league mim.

This is all from Miami fans hoping against hope that he will stay with them so they can continue to have a chance to win rings, and haters also hoping he will stay with them thinking that the team will drown in the contracts of Wade and Bosh and will not be able to win anymore.

kobe4thewinbang
06-19-2014, 10:27 PM
He is 99% staying with the Miami Heat, who I assume will bring in some new players via free agency/trades.

On the off-chance that Miami doesn't see how bad they are, I think LeBron will at least mull over the idea of going back home, even though it would totally eclipse the draft pick that Cleveland chooses.

Oh, we got Wiggins/Parker/Embiid/Exum? Bow down to the king...lol.

IKnowHoops
06-19-2014, 10:31 PM
Cleveland is the only place he could leave for. If he goes anywhere else then his legacy is over and he'll just be known as Stat stuffer with no heart and no determination

haters gonna hate no matter what. He doesn't care about that crap. He's gonna go to the best team and win rings and put up huge stats and his haters gonna hate, his fans gonna cheer and that will be that.

Jeffy25
06-20-2014, 02:16 AM
He is 99% staying with the Miami Heat, who I assume will bring in some new players via free agency/trades.

On the off-chance that Miami doesn't see how bad they are, I think LeBron will at least mull over the idea of going back home, even though it would totally eclipse the draft pick that Cleveland chooses.

Oh, we got Wiggins/Parker/Embiid/Exum? Bow down to the king...lol.

Who of those picks would best work with Lebron?

Parker?

Chrisclover
06-20-2014, 02:26 AM
LeBron and have already been there 4 times in a row. They don't need a complete overhaul. Just a piece or two.
Either Bosh or Wade needs to be dealt ,which is close to an overhaul, if not a complete one.

Chrisclover
06-20-2014, 02:36 AM
He stays in miami until his last season where he goes back to Cleveland for a farewell season.

Sterling is a racist and LBJ said he will not play for him because racism is insulting.
Gilbert insulted LBJ in 2010 blatantly. And people keep saying LBJ will come back to Cleveland one day?They must be as forgiving as Jesus. Get slapped on your face? Turn the other face for others to slap.
You people are too infatuated with the prospect of a young Cleveland core and the hyped homesickness. Trust me, LBJ cares his ego really much and he will not come back to Cleveland until Gilbert sells his team.
Um....maybe some LBJ's super fans shall set Gilbert up the way Sterling got screwed, and then they advance to the next phase of recruiting LBJ.

FlashBolt
06-20-2014, 02:40 AM
I think Miami has a bad future. Their loyalty lies deep and with Bosh/Wade, I don't think this team will be winning as other teams get better. Let's face it, the league is much tougher now to win than ever. You guys can say all you want but look at the West. You've never seen it so tough. James needs to be in a team where players are young and can sustain their body for years to come. Bosh can't rough it up, Wade is injury prone, and they need to seriously stop digging for veterans. I really thought Oden would help, turns out he doesn't even play. Beasley would be a player that Miami should have played against Brooklyn/Bobcats so Wade wouldn't have to play as many games because it was awfully evident that his knees are banged up. Why Wade won't admit it? Because then no team out there would want him. Better off saying he had a bad series than admitting that his knees are forever gone. Battier, gone. Miss him but he was out of it. Went from Miami's fourth-fifth best player to being last. James Jones needs more minutes and with a new roster, I think he should be getting 15-20 daily. Allen can still play a couple of more years. Only complaint about Allen is he tries to do too much. He should shoot threes and that's it. Andersen, resign for $2m a year. Chalmers, let him go. As much as I love his persona, he is going to demand money that doesn't match his talent.

IKnowHoops
06-20-2014, 03:28 AM
I think Miami has a bad future. Their loyalty lies deep and with Bosh/Wade, I don't think this team will be winning as other teams get better. Let's face it, the league is much tougher now to win than ever. You guys can say all you want but look at the West. You've never seen it so tough. James needs to be in a team where players are young and can sustain their body for years to come. Bosh can't rough it up, Wade is injury prone, and they need to seriously stop digging for veterans. I really thought Oden would help, turns out he doesn't even play. Beasley would be a player that Miami should have played against Brooklyn/Bobcats so Wade wouldn't have to play as many games because it was awfully evident that his knees are banged up. Why Wade won't admit it? Because then no team out there would want him. Better off saying he had a bad series than admitting that his knees are forever gone. Battier, gone. Miss him but he was out of it. Went from Miami's fourth-fifth best player to being last. James Jones needs more minutes and with a new roster, I think he should be getting 15-20 daily. Allen can still play a couple of more years. Only complaint about Allen is he tries to do too much. He should shoot threes and that's it. Andersen, resign for $2m a year. Chalmers, let him go. As much as I love his persona, he is going to demand money that doesn't match his talent.

It would make my day if wherever Bron went, he would take Beasley and Oden with him and them two ball up under another coach just to show how ridiculous and stubborn Spoelstra is.

Chrisclover
06-20-2014, 04:09 AM
Who cares. This is the year Lebron starts his decline IMO. It's the Leonard and Durant era now.

it is an overstatement of Leonard.
He is just 22 and his regular season stats are just decent,not superior.

IKnowHoops
06-20-2014, 04:15 AM
Who of those picks would best work with Lebron?

Parker?

Wiggins. Them running together would be special.

Jeffy25
06-20-2014, 08:47 AM
it is an overstatement of Leonard.
He is just 22 and his regular season stats are just decent,not superior.

In one post he says Leonard is a third year guy who outplayed him.

And in another post, he's one of the two best players in the league

ewing
06-20-2014, 08:54 AM
He is staying with the Heat. Of course, he will make a show of it first

Chrisclover
06-20-2014, 08:55 AM
In one post he says Leonard is a third year guy who outplayed him.

And in another post, he's one of the two best players in the league
Surely his name says it all.

Max.This
06-20-2014, 08:55 AM
Got him going to Utah... #3peat......Not 1, Not 2, Not 3, Not 4, Not 5, Not 6, Not 7

Tmath
06-20-2014, 09:05 AM
Raptors obviously

Chrisclover
06-20-2014, 09:05 AM
His line has already become a laughing stock. Not 1,not 2......
Come on, going to the Finals in 4 consecutive years and winning back-to-back championships are already magnificent. Neither Jordan's Bulls or Shaq's Lakers did the first one.

Chrisclover
06-20-2014, 09:06 AM
He is staying with the Heat. Of course, he will make a show of it first
if so, I will watch it even if it is at midnight.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-20-2014, 12:49 PM
Lebron better stay or he'll be the biggest disgrace in sports history.

Hangin n Wangin
06-20-2014, 01:39 PM
Breaking News: LeBron will do another decision. "The Decision Part II".

ewing
06-20-2014, 03:00 PM
Lebron better stay or he'll be the biggest disgrace in sports history.

He is already a laughing stock. His team has been to four straight finals and the story is, will he leave. He should have committed immediately and publicly. If he did so and took a less then max deal the other guys would have no choice but to follow and then he would give Riles a chances to with a great core and some flexibility.

Jeffy25
06-20-2014, 03:23 PM
Lebron better stay or he'll be the biggest disgrace in sports history.

I too think guys coming off back to back Finals and league MVP's and has two other league MVP's to be disgraces.....

ink
06-20-2014, 03:32 PM
He is already a laughing stock. His team has been to four straight finals and the story is, will he leave. He should have committed immediately and publicly. If he did so and took a pay cut the other guys would have no choice but to follow and then he would give Riles a chances to with a great core and some flexibility.

The story should be about the Spurs, 2014 NBA Champions.

Midnightbottle
06-20-2014, 03:40 PM
I too think guys coming off back to back Finals and league MVP's and has two other league MVP's to be disgraces.....

If he just jumps ship to another star studded team its kinda hard to say hes not.

Jeffy25
06-20-2014, 03:48 PM
If he just jumps ship to another star studded team its kinda hard to say hes not.

The disgrace of the league?

for chasing titles...he is the disgrace of the league?

Not Donald sterling, James Johnson, Dante Cunningham or the hundreds of NBA players that have been arrested?

Jeffy25
06-20-2014, 03:49 PM
The story should be about the Spurs, 2014 NBA Champions.

Yes!

Midnightbottle
06-20-2014, 03:51 PM
The disgrace of the league?

for chasing titles...he is the disgrace of the league?

Not Donald sterling, James Johnson, Dante Cunningham or the hundreds of NBA players that have been arrested?

When your called the chosen one and king james you should act like it. Not run to the best possible situation when things get tough. Witch would be what hes doing yet again if he leaves Miami.

Jeffy25
06-20-2014, 03:51 PM
When your called the chosen one and king james you should act like it. Not run to the best possible situation when things get tough. Witch would be what hes doing yet again if he leaves Miami.

So he's the disgrace of the league?

Midnightbottle
06-20-2014, 03:53 PM
So he's the disgrace of the league?

In my opinion yes.

RaiderLakersA's
06-20-2014, 04:08 PM
The story should be about the Spurs, 2014 NBA Champions.

Sadly, that's not the case. The Spurs completely iced the Heat, but all we hear about is Big Three this, and Big Three that. I can wait until until the opt-in/out deadline comes and goes.

ewing
06-20-2014, 06:21 PM
The disgrace of the league?

for chasing titles...he is the disgrace of the league?

Not Donald sterling, James Johnson, Dante Cunningham or the hundreds of NBA players that have been arrested?


yep. i don't care what these guys do off the court. When you bring all this drama and camera hogging into the game you become a joke to me.

JesusNYY_Savior
06-20-2014, 06:22 PM
La with Melo and bean

ewing
06-20-2014, 07:16 PM
i think the NBA should just name LeBron a team captain and let him pick his own team

ewing
06-20-2014, 07:30 PM
The story should be about the Spurs, 2014 NBA Champions.

if Bron would just commit to his team it would be.

beliges
06-20-2014, 07:34 PM
So he's the disgrace of the league?

I don't think disgrace was the correct word. He would become the joke among all the greats that's for sure. He needs to still prove that he can have a team built around him.

Jeffy25
06-20-2014, 07:35 PM
I don't think disgrace was the correct word. He would become the joke among all the greats that's for sure. He needs to still prove that he can have a team built around him.

Where do you guys rank Malone and Barkley?

THE MTL
06-20-2014, 07:45 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if he stays in Miami, maybe another 3 years and then finishes off his career in Cleveland

ewing
06-20-2014, 07:49 PM
Where do you guys rank Malone and Barkley?

I rank them behind Bron as players and entitled attention whores

NBA_Starter
06-20-2014, 08:27 PM
Miami Heat

ewing
06-20-2014, 08:38 PM
All this talk. You would think Bron was on the knicks.

Chrisclover
06-20-2014, 10:07 PM
All this talk. You would think Bron was on the knicks.

I dont get it. Care to elaborate it?

beasted86
06-20-2014, 10:10 PM
All this talk. You would think Bron was on the knicks.
:laugh:

amos1er
06-20-2014, 10:51 PM
I rank them behind Bron as players and entitled attention whores

Lol.

amos1er
06-20-2014, 10:52 PM
Gosh... A lot of poll choices. Must a taking quite sometime to put together. Lol.

amos1er
06-20-2014, 10:57 PM
In response to the thread at hand...

Where will Lebron be playing next year...

Where ever the title chase takes him next. I'm sure his handlers will evaluate the situation and advise him as best they can on where the best odds of him contending for a title will be. My guess is Cleveland... The NBA has set the stage for this so that they can kill two birds with one stone... Get the lesser market teams on board with the new CBA and to cement their cash cow's legacy so that no one can throw salt on his legacy anymore by saying that he had to jump ship and take less money to form a super team to win. Now I they will say is that the NBA had to rig the draft three out of four years to put a team together to entice him into playing for the franchise that drafted him by stacking the deck in his favor once again. Only this time if we say anything, they can all label us as conspiracy theorists and nutjobs instead of haters.

amos1er
06-20-2014, 10:59 PM
Who the **** voted Utah... SMH.

sep11ie
06-20-2014, 11:06 PM
I voted utah

Chrisclover
06-20-2014, 11:55 PM
You shall bet on it.

Deutsch Konig
06-21-2014, 12:44 AM
Why on earth do Rockets fans think it's so easy to get rid of Asik and Lins TERRIBLE contracts/value???

NOBODY...I repeat NOBODY wants to trade for either of those guys at that price. Houston won't be adding anybody signifigant this offseason. They will be stuck in mediocre land with Harden and Dwight for the next couple of years.

PraiseJesus
06-21-2014, 12:45 AM
Knicks

JeffG20
06-21-2014, 02:00 AM
I want him in N.O for no other reason other then to call him the PeliKING

HesterJordan23
06-21-2014, 02:42 AM
1. Stays with heat.
2. Clips
3. Rockets
4.Knicks
5. Cavs

In that order

Chrisclover
06-21-2014, 04:17 AM
Why on earth do Rockets fans think it's so easy to get rid of Asik and Lins TERRIBLE contracts/value???

NOBODY...I repeat NOBODY wants to trade for either of those guys at that price. Houston won't be adding anybody signifigant this offseason. They will be stuck in mediocre land with Harden and Dwight for the next couple of years.
I heard that Lin's contract would only count as half in the team salary.
not sure if it is true.

ewing
06-21-2014, 08:45 AM
I dont get it. Care to elaborate it?


LeBron opts out in Clev and its the summer of LeBron. the Cavs had won 60 games multiple times, been the finals, and just lost in the EFC. They were excellent defensively, Mo was prefect fit at the PG next to Bron, West and Andy were highly underrated and great high energy guys to put next to Bron, being on a defensive oriented ball control team gave Bron's physical dominance more control over the game. INMO they were one piece from being clear cut favorites to when an NBA title. But reading these posts you would think that team was terrible

Now, Bron can opt out again. He has been to 4 straight NBA finals and won 2 of them. His team is historically good but again reading all this crap you would think the Heat were some joke franchise.

Chrisclover
06-21-2014, 08:56 AM
This shows that you are a diehard Knicks fan.

ewing
06-21-2014, 09:00 AM
This shows that you are a diehard Knicks fan.

care to elaborate? :)

Yanks All Day
06-21-2014, 09:06 AM
I understand why Cavs fans hate LeBron. Hometown boy left his team on national TV. Nevermind the fact he gave so many years to a franchise who's best 2nd options were Old Shaq and Mo Williams, but The Decision is what Cavs fans are salty about.

I even get why Laker fans hate LeBron, to an extent. He's already one of the greatest players ever and they don't want him being higher regarded than Kobe.

But I have no idea why Knicks fans hate LeBron. I think it's because he didn't go to New York? But I'm really not sure. A guy with no ties to New York City looking for championships is not going to go to a train wreck front office and a franchise who has no championship pieces on the court. There's no such thing as "bringing back the Garden" when evaluating someone's legacy. Additionally, reviving the Knicks isn't half of what reviving the Celtics or Lakers would be. It just seems like a lot of entitled fans think LeBron should join their team because it says New York on the front (much like us Yankee fans, admittedly), and then get mad when the player goes somewhere else. It blows my mind.

ewing
06-21-2014, 09:19 AM
I understand why Cavs fans hate LeBron. Hometown boy left his team on national TV. Nevermind the fact he gave so many years to a franchise who's best 2nd options were Old Shaq and Mo Williams, but The Decision is what Cavs fans are salty about.

I even get why Laker fans hate LeBron, to an extent. He's already one of the greatest players ever and they don't want him being higher regarded than Kobe.

But I have no idea why Knicks fans hate LeBron. I think it's because he didn't go to New York? But I'm really not sure. A guy with no ties to New York City looking for championships is not going to go to a train wreck front office and a franchise who has no championship pieces on the court. There's no such thing as "bringing back the Garden" when evaluating someone's legacy. Additionally, reviving the Knicks isn't half of what reviving the Celtics or Lakers would be. It just seems like a lot of entitled fans think LeBron should join their team because it says New York on the front (much like us Yankee fans, admittedly), and then get mad when the player goes somewhere else. It blows my mind.


I never thought Bron was coming to NY

Chrisclover
06-21-2014, 09:32 AM
care to elaborate? :)
lol.
First of all, I knew you are a Knicks fan long time ago.
Then, when I read your post, I felt your mixed feelings towards the Knicks when you said that people described the Heat as bad a team as the Knicks.
The Knicks is in a vortex but I hope they can become contenders. There is no reason for a big market team to lose all the time like a bottom team does.
Being a Knicks fan must not be easy, right?So is being a Lakers fan. I am going to see my team lose over and over again. But at least I can see Kobe's last show(the only good thing for a Lakers fan, probably)

ewing
06-21-2014, 09:40 AM
lol.
First of all, I knew you are a Knicks fan long time ago.
Then, when I read your post, I felt your mixed feelings towards the Knicks when you said that people described the Heat as a bad team as the Knicks.
The Knicks is in a vortex but I hope they can become contenders. There is no reason for a big market team to lose all the time like a bottom team does.
Being a Knicks fan must not be easy, right?So is being a Lakers fan. I am going to see my team lose over and over again. But at least I can see Kobe's last show(the only good thing for a Lakers fan, probably)


if you don't laugh you will cry

ewing
06-21-2014, 09:46 AM
remember when teams hated each other. now, you aren't even supposed to dislike opposing players unless they are inefficient or run dog flights.

Chrisclover
06-21-2014, 10:22 AM
remember when teams hated each other. now, you aren't even supposed to dislike opposing players unless they are inefficient or run dog flights.
yea, the league is more commercial and good players are always wanted no matter which teams they have played for. LBJ is certainly every GM's favorite.

Jeffy25
06-21-2014, 12:02 PM
remember when teams hated each other. now, you aren't even supposed to dislike opposing players unless they are inefficient or run dog flights.

Is it better to have players hate one another or something?

rocket
06-21-2014, 12:22 PM
Cle.

TheIlladelph16
06-21-2014, 01:12 PM
He's almost certainly staying in Miami.

Tony_Starks
06-21-2014, 01:38 PM
Why on earth do Rockets fans think it's so easy to get rid of Asik and Lins TERRIBLE contracts/value???

NOBODY...I repeat NOBODY wants to trade for either of those guys at that price. Houston won't be adding anybody signifigant this offseason. They will be stuck in mediocre land with Harden and Dwight for the next couple of years.

You haven't heard? Lin is the pg of the future and Asik is a suberb defensive anchor. Any team would be lucky to pay them a combined 30 million!

raiderposting
06-21-2014, 01:41 PM
Is it better to have players hate one another or something?

Yes

Jeffy25
06-21-2014, 01:55 PM
Yes

Lol, I just can't comprehend the outlooks some have of the game.

ewing
06-21-2014, 02:11 PM
Is it better to have players hate one another or something?

yes, rivalries are clearly good for the game

statquo
06-21-2014, 02:13 PM
Is it better to have players hate one another or something?

Yes

Deutsch Konig
06-21-2014, 05:57 PM
You haven't heard? Lin is the pg of the future and Asik is a suberb defensive anchor. Any team would be lucky to pay them a combined 30 million!

lmao....they're in the other forum talking about how easy it will be for Houston to trade lin and asik and how many teams are interested lmao....yea ok...we'll see

IKnowHoops
06-21-2014, 07:44 PM
LeBron opts out in Clev and its the summer of LeBron. the Cavs had won 60 games multiple times, been the finals, and just lost in the EFC. They were excellent defensively, Mo was prefect fit at the PG next to Bron, West and Andy were highly underrated and great high energy guys to put next to Bron, being on a defensive oriented ball control team gave Bron's physical dominance more control over the game. INMO they were one piece from being clear cut favorites to when an NBA title. But reading these posts you would think that team was terrible

Now, Bron can opt out again. He has been to 4 straight NBA finals and won 2 of them. His team is historically good but again reading all this crap you would think the Heat were some joke franchise.

the team was terrible. Bron was just that good. Notice how when he left, Mo sucked and the team barely won 20 games. Now conversely when Jordan left the Bulls, that team still won like 56 games or so. Now thats a good team. See the difference?

DaBear
06-21-2014, 07:59 PM
I understand why Cavs fans hate LeBron. Hometown boy left his team on national TV. Nevermind the fact he gave so many years to a franchise who's best 2nd options were Old Shaq and Mo Williams, but The Decision is what Cavs fans are salty about.

I even get why Laker fans hate LeBron, to an extent. He's already one of the greatest players ever and they don't want him being higher regarded than Kobe.

But I have no idea why Knicks fans hate LeBron. I think it's because he didn't go to New York? But I'm really not sure. A guy with no ties to New York City looking for championships is not going to go to a train wreck front office and a franchise who has no championship pieces on the court. There's no such thing as "bringing back the Garden" when evaluating someone's legacy. Additionally, reviving the Knicks isn't half of what reviving the Celtics or Lakers would be. It just seems like a lot of entitled fans think LeBron should join their team because it says New York on the front (much like us Yankee fans, admittedly), and then get mad when the player goes somewhere else. It blows my mind.

Most people don't like him because of the whole decision fiasco, and just how he carries himself. He's arrogant, he cries for fouls more than Wade. He's the best player, no doubt, but it's understandable why people don't like him.

amos1er
06-21-2014, 08:02 PM
the team was terrible. Bron was just that good. Notice how when he left, Mo sucked and the team barely won 20 games. Now conversely when Jordan left the Bulls, that team still won like 56 games or so. Now thats a good team. See the difference?

Wow. This has to be one of the worst posts I have read in a while. So many holes I can poke in it. For starters...

- Shaq left.
- Big Z left.
- Mo Williams only played in 36 games that season.
- Varejao only played in 31 games.
- Jamison only played in 56 games.
- Brand new coach.

Need I continue. You really make Lebron fans look bad with posts like these. Just stop. Oh and as for your comparison of Mo Williams to Scottie Pippen... :facepalm:

Let's not also forget that the guy who you say sucked in Mo Williams, averaged 2 more apg without Lebron there to rape his stat sheet.

DaBear
06-21-2014, 08:04 PM
Wow. This has to be one of the worst posts I have read in a while. So many holes I can poke in it. For starters...

- Shaq left.
- Big Z left.
- Mo Williams only played in 36 games that season.
- Varejao only played in 31 games.
- Jamison only played in 56 games.
- Brand new coach.

Need I continue. You really make Lebron fans look bad with posts like these. Just stop. Oh and as for your comparison of Mo Williams to Scottie Pippen... :facepalm:

LeBron is like a God to them. It's not like he went 2-2 with a stacked squad when he basically claimed he would win a title every year.

jerellh528
06-21-2014, 08:12 PM
Wow. This has to be one of the worst posts I have read in a while. So many holes I can poke in it. For starters...

- Shaq left.
- Big Z left.
- Mo Williams only played in 36 games that season.
- Varejao only played in 31 games.
- Jamison only played in 56 games.
- Brand new coach.

Need I continue. You really make Lebron fans look bad with posts like these. Just stop. Oh and as for your comparison of Mo Williams to Scottie Pippen... :facepalm:

Let's not also forget that the guy who you say sucked in Mo Williams, averaged 2 more apg without Lebron there to rape his stat sheet.

Yep people always forget that

IKnowHoops
06-21-2014, 08:30 PM
You haven't heard? Lin is the pg of the future and Asik is a suberb defensive anchor. Any team would be lucky to pay them a combined 30 million!

Yet some people think Asik and Lin for Bosh is a good trade for Miami.

IKnowHoops
06-21-2014, 08:36 PM
Wow. This has to be one of the worst posts I have read in a while. So many holes I can poke in it. For starters...

- Shaq left.
- Big Z left.
- Mo Williams only played in 36 games that season.
- Varejao only played in 31 games.
- Jamison only played in 56 games.
- Brand new coach.

Need I continue. You really make Lebron fans look bad with posts like these. Just stop. Oh and as for your comparison of Mo Williams to Scottie Pippen... :facepalm:

Let's not also forget that the guy who you say sucked in Mo Williams, averaged 2 more apg without Lebron there to rape his stat sheet.

hahahaha, man you just named a bunch of game changers. Nevermind the fact they won 60 games the year before without Shaq. Big Z was 50. Varejo? Really Varejo. Injuries are apart of the season. Now how have they done in all the years since Bron left. They have upgraded with Kyrie and they still aren't winning anything. they have gotten the number 1 pick 3 of 4 years. Whats your excuse for all those years without Bron? Please, I'm eagerly awaiting what other ridiculous garbage excuses you can come up with for Clevelands awfulness.

IKnowHoops
06-21-2014, 08:46 PM
Wow. This has to be one of the worst posts I have read in a while. So many holes I can poke in it. For starters...

- Shaq left.
- Big Z left.
- Mo Williams only played in 36 games that season.
- Varejao only played in 31 games.
- Jamison only played in 56 games.
- Brand new coach.

Need I continue. You really make Lebron fans look bad with posts like these. Just stop. Oh and as for your comparison of Mo Williams to Scottie Pippen... :facepalm:

Let's not also forget that the guy who you say sucked in Mo Williams, averaged 2 more apg without Lebron there to rape his stat sheet.

:facepalm: Wow, this never even happened. What's wrong with your ability to read and comprehend?

amos1er
06-21-2014, 09:14 PM
hahahaha, man you just named a bunch of game changers. Nevermind the fact they won 60 games the year before without Shaq. Big Z was 50. Varejo? Really Varejo. Injuries are apart of the season. Now how have they done in all the years since Bron left. They have upgraded with Kyrie and they still aren't winning anything. they have gotten the number 1 pick 3 of 4 years. Whats your excuse for all those years without Bron? Please, I'm eagerly awaiting what other ridiculous garbage excuses you can come up with for Clevelands awfulness.

If you can't see how incredibly out of context and deceptive your original post was then there is no real point in having this debate.

NBA_Starter
06-21-2014, 09:15 PM
Hornets :hope:

Zefflin
06-21-2014, 09:17 PM
Whereever the ring chaser has the best chance of winning another ring. Simple. Lebron only cares abouts stats and rings...pretty easy to see...

amos1er
06-21-2014, 09:22 PM
:facepalm: Wow, this never even happened. What's wrong with your ability to read and comprehend?

You implied it by comparing the Cavs to the Bulls. You stated Williams as the second option who took over after Lebron left and compared it to the Bulls when Scottie took over after Jordan left. Two completely different situations. The Bulls still had Pippen, Grant, and Phil, while the Cavs only had Williams for 36 games, and a gutted roster in addition to the loss of James not to mention a brand new coach. Of course a Pippen lead team with Phil still as the head coach is going to out perform a Mo Williams led Cavs team with a gutted roster, new coach, and Williams only playing in 36 games. You conveniently left all that out and by brining up Williams leading the Cavs to a horrible record and compare it to how the Bulls performed under Scottie in a vain and relatively weak effort to boost Lebron's value, you are essentially comparing Mo to Scottie as a player as well. Even if Mo played the entire season and the Cavs roster wasn't completely gutted and they kept the same coach, I would still expect a Pippen led team to out perform a Mo Williams led team... Do you see how that works now... In no way would that even remotely prove any sort of value for Lebron as a player over Jordan. Your entire comparison was laughable at best. I wouldn't ever bring it up in public if I were you.

jerellh528
06-21-2014, 09:24 PM
You implied it by comparing the Cavs to the Bulls. You stated Williams as the second option who took over after Lebron left and compared it to the Bulls when Scottie took over after Jordan left. Two completely different situations. The Bulls still had Pippen, Grant, and Phil, while the Cavs only had Williams for 36 games, and a gutted roster in addition to the loss of James not to mention a brand new coach. Of course a Pippen lead team with Phil still as the head coach is going to out perform a Mo Williams led Cavs team with a gutted roster, new coach, and Williams only playing in 36 games. You conveniently left all that out and by brining up Williams leading the Cavs to a horrible record and compare it to how the Bulls performed under Scottie in a vain and relatively weak effort to boost Lebron's value, you are essentially comparing Mo to Scottie as a player as well. Even if Mo played the entire season and the Cavs roster wasn't completely gutted and they kept the same coach, I would still expect a Pippen led team to out perform a Mo Williams led team... Do you see how that works now...

Don't bother with that troll. He's one of the worst posters on this site.

amos1er
06-21-2014, 09:27 PM
Whereever the ring chaser has the best chance of winning another ring. Simple. Lebron only cares abouts stats and rings...pretty easy to see...

That pretty much sums it up.

amos1er
06-21-2014, 09:30 PM
Don't bother with that troll. He's one of the worst posters on this site.

Ha... Clearly. I see that now. I really shouldn't waste my time swatting a fly like him, but I just couldn't resist.

ewing
06-21-2014, 09:30 PM
Wow. This has to be one of the worst posts I have read in a while. So many holes I can poke in it. For starters...

- Shaq left.
- Big Z left.
- Mo Williams only played in 36 games that season.
- Varejao only played in 31 games.
- Jamison only played in 56 games.
- Brand new coach.

Need I continue. You really make Lebron fans look bad with posts like these. Just stop. Oh and as for your comparison of Mo Williams to Scottie Pippen... :facepalm:

Let's not also forget that the guy who you say sucked in Mo Williams, averaged 2 more apg without Lebron there to rape his stat sheet.


I've made similar posts to this multiple times, don't worry the same posters will make the Cavs/bulls comparison tomorrow like it hold water. Yes, the bulls were better without Jordan, they were also better with him, and the Cavs team was gutted. Its a silly comparison. The Cavs were not the bulls but were a very good team and i actually think Bron influence is multiplied on a defensive ball control team as a opposed to a team that plays a more open style. It an even more suitable style for him now that he uses the post.

amos1er
06-21-2014, 09:34 PM
I've made similar posts to this multiple times, don't worry the same posters will make the Cavs/bulls comparison tomorrow like it hold water. Yes, the bulls were better without Jordan, they were also better with him, and the Cavs team was gutted. Its a silly comparison. The Cavs were a very good team

Lol. I have no doubt that they will. A shame that nearly anyone with a below average level of understanding of the game and it's history will see right through it. Guess these guys have to take whatever they can get at the present moment. It's kinda sad really.

Chronz
06-21-2014, 10:28 PM
Wow. This has to be one of the worst posts I have read in a while. So many holes I can poke in it. For starters...
This should be fun.


- Shaq left.
The same Shaq that was often a liability due to the negligence of Mike Brown. They often played worse with Shaq on the court, hence their higher winning% the year prior AND their superior +/- differential. Did you even watch the Cavs?


- Big Z left.
Big Z was nearing retirement and was no longer a productive player. Shows just how much you have to nitpick when you single out such an unproductive reserve who the team didn't miss when he was traded.


- Mo Williams only played in 36 games that season.
When Mo missed games, Bron simply played more PG and the team went like 10-0 IIRC or some high winning%


- Varejao only played in 31 games.
Their SRS was still awful with him around.


- Jamison only played in 56 games.
Which is MORE than he gave Cleveland in Brons first year, if anything, his mentioning should be an addition. You really hate Bron that much that your slipping this hard? LMFAO



- Brand new coach.
AKA Upgraded Coaching staff. LMFAO


Need I continue. You really make Lebron fans look bad with posts like these. Just stop. Oh and as for your comparison of Mo Williams to Scottie Pippen... :facepalm:
Thats his point, theres no comp.


Let's not also forget that the guy who you say sucked in Mo Williams, averaged 2 more apg without Lebron there to rape his stat sheet.
According to ACTUAL statisticians, Mo had his most PRODUCTIVE years ALONGSIDE Bron. So plz stop speaking on things you dont understand.

Chronz
06-21-2014, 10:31 PM
I've made similar posts to this multiple times, don't worry the same posters will make the Cavs/bulls comparison tomorrow like it hold water. Yes, the bulls were better without Jordan, they were also better with him, and the Cavs team was gutted. Its a silly comparison. The Cavs were not the bulls but were a very good team and i actually think Bron influence is multiplied on a defensive ball control team as a opposed to a team that plays a more open style. It an even more suitable style for him now that he uses the post.

Ive destroyed similar posts in the past. Feel free to attack my previous post for amosier, look forward to seeing what you have to say about the Cavs CONSISTENTLY winning so long as 1 player was around, Bron. It doesn't matter who you put around him, he will fill the gaps accordingly. Its why he could lead a moribund Cavs team to the Finals despite a team that couldn't win a single game in 8 tries without him (IIRC)

NBA_Starter
06-21-2014, 10:43 PM
The Rockets look to be enticing now.

DemarDerozan
06-21-2014, 10:56 PM
Houston. Dark Horse Detroit. Hear me out:

SVG has been one of the biggest LBJ supporters. They are strong at every position that the heat are weak at. If the Pistons could dump Josh Smith's contract on someone (looking at you Charlotte). It would be a good place for a new beginning. LBJ opening the paint up for Drummond and Monroe would result in the best front court of all time. Add a couple shooters and they are set. Not to mention LBJ has admired Drummond and Monroe publicly in the past.

ldawg
06-21-2014, 11:01 PM
I find it funny these players willing to accept pay cuts. Wade is set to make 48mill in two years he is willing to accept a similar amount over 4 years. That's nuts. While I respect Duncan for taking such a huge pay cut so the team could have resign Manu I also respect Kobe for not given money back. If it was me I was going with the cash Tell the NBA to raise the cap and stop asking me to take less to increase your profit. I just don't get how you can max a player at 25mil yet the cap is 58. makes no sense.

ldawg
06-21-2014, 11:08 PM
we had a lock out and owners force the players to take pay cuts now players volunteer to take pay cuts? really? I am missing something.

ldawg
06-21-2014, 11:10 PM
If I am Lebron James in my prime you are going to pay top dollar for my services.

amos1er
06-21-2014, 11:44 PM
This should be fun.

Are you really taking this one on, or are you just trolling now. Clearly you see how the Cavs Bulls comparison without Jordan and Lebron the following year is just plain ludicrous. Completely different dynamic all together. In no way does that prove anything about Lebron holding more value to a team than Jordan... Which is what the OP was attempting to infer.


The same Shaq that was often a liability due to the negligence of Mike Brown. They often played worse with Shaq on the court, hence their higher winning% the year prior AND their superior +/- differential. Did you even watch the Cavs?

Plus minus is a worthless stat. If this is the extent of your argument I surely have to lol. If you really want to go by that, then why not go by it in the finals this year when Lebron had the worst +/- on his team during key games... Not just game one where he left with cramps either.


Big Z was nearing retirement and was no longer a productive player. Shows just how much you have to nitpick when you single out such an unproductive reserve who the team didn't miss when he was traded.

Big Z was at the end of his career yes, but still a solid bench contributor and their fifth best rebounder from the year before. He was their ninth best scorer yes, but still was averaging near double figure scoring. Just goes to show how deep their team was before it was completely gutted.


When Mo missed games, Bron simply played more PG and the team went like 10-0 IIRC or some high winning%

Lol. Could easily be rationalized as an anomaly. Eastern Conference was a complete joke that year like it has been every year for the past 15 seasons or so. I would be curious to know the teams they were playing during this miraculous run you speak of. Also just makes his argument even weaker because as I said earlier, Mo Williams is a far cry from Scottie Pippen. Of course a Pippen lead team is going to perform better. Give me a break. Pippen is a top 50 player of All-Time and Mo Williams is not even top 300.


Their SRS was still awful with him around.

Sample size. New coach new system. Clearly there were more factors in play here than just losing Lebron.


Which is MORE than he gave Cleveland in Brons first year, if anything, his mentioning should be an addition. You really hate Bron that much that your slipping this hard? LMFAO

The only valid point you have made. I'll give you that, though I should mention that his level of play dipped off tremendously since the previous year and he was asked to play significantly more minutes than he was used to as a third option... Which is the roll he was always used to playing.


AKA Upgraded Coaching staff. LMFAO

Yes obviously Scott is the better coach and I'm hopeful the Lakers sign him this year, but still have to factor in the gutted roster and new system. The previous years Cavs team was built to play around Lebron, with no Lebron, that cast of characters really didn't fit together all that well.


Thats his point, theres no comp.

Was that really his point... Lol. My take on it was some homeristic Lebron love post implying that Lebron meant more to his team than Jordan did. I was a bit sarcastic by saying that he was comparing Scottie and Williams, but I'm sure you already knew that and that alone should be a huge determining factor as to why the Bulls without Jordan performed better than the Cavs without Lebron. Also have to factor in how much stronger the east was during the mid 90's and a team like the Bulls who essentially had the same championship core and coach in tact less Jordan.


According to ACTUAL statisticians, Mo had his most PRODUCTIVE years ALONGSIDE Bron. So plz stop speaking on things you dont understand.

Who are these actual statistician you speak of and what were the metrics they used... Williams was essentially the same player he was the year before he was traded to the Cavs by most metrics I can think of... Only he posted near a career low in assists when teaming up with Lebron. But that is a theme we see in nearly all of Lebron's teammates throughout the years. Passers average less assists, rebounder average less rebounds, scorers score less, and Lebron somehow continues to be the best scorer, assister, and rebounder on bottom tier scoring, assisting, and rebounding teams. Yet you and others will sit here straight faced and tell me that Lebron's stats come naturally and make his team and teammates better... LMAO.

5ass
06-22-2014, 12:08 AM
No man you're right LeBron is taking stats away from them. He does it on purpose. That's why he karate kicks bosh for a rebound. He's also responsible for all the threes the heat missed because he can't really make a good pass, he just throws it anywhere and prays a teammate catches it. Let's not forget the fact that he calls for the ball every time, and *****es and complains if his teammates dont give it to him. Its all LeBron, a great player and passer, great help defender, versatile individual defender, one of the most efficient 25+ PPG scorers ever, and he's making his team and teammates worse. Obviously, Cleveland is a great example with the success they had after he left. All this time he was holding them back from getting that championship.
Amos1er do you believe the **** you type?

*Silver&Black*
06-22-2014, 12:54 AM
Jeff Teague
Kyle Korver
Lebron James
Paul Millsap
Al Horford

amos1er
06-22-2014, 01:02 AM
No man you're right LeBron is taking stats away from them. He does it on purpose. That's why he karate kicks bosh for a rebound. He's also responsible for all the threes the heat missed because he can't really make a good pass, he just throws it anywhere and prays a teammate catches it. Let's not forget the fact that he calls for the ball every time, and *****es and complains if his teammates dont give it to him. Its all LeBron, a great player and passer, great help defender, versatile individual defender, one of the most efficient 25+ PPG scorers ever, and he's making his team and teammates worse. Obviously, Cleveland is a great example with the success they had after he left. All this time he was holding them back from getting that championship.
Amos1er do you believe the **** you type?

How do you explain Lebron's teams being mediocre to bottom ranked in scoring, assisting, and rebounding throughout his career then. But heck, Lebron is consistently the best in all three on his team so lets just ignore all of that right... LMAO

Why is it then that Kobe has been the best scorer, and passer on his teams that have won rings against superior competition and less help than Lebron when those teams were tops in the league in both scoring, and assisting... Kind of puts things into perspective about all of this stats nonsense doesn't it...

Clearly when Kobe is leading his teams in assists and points, his teams benefit and when Lebron is leading his teams in points, assists, and rebounds, his teams don't live up to the hype. Check Wade and Bosh's statistical decline since teaming up with Lebron if you don't believe me.

5ass
06-22-2014, 01:12 AM
Yeah yeah Kobe is better than born, same old song and dance with you, we all know your agenda and its very pathetic. You're not worth the trouble, but I'm sure someone will come here and shut you up.. again. As for now, you want to convince people LeBron makes his team worse, go ahead, you're only making yourself look like an idiot.

ghettosean
06-22-2014, 01:13 AM
This should be fun.

Are you really taking this one on, or are you just trolling now. Clearly you see how the Cavs Bulls comparison without Jordan and Lebron the following year is just plain ludicrous. Completely different dynamic all together. In no way does that prove anything about Lebron holding more value to a team than Jordan... Which is what the OP was attempting to infer.


The same Shaq that was often a liability due to the negligence of Mike Brown. They often played worse with Shaq on the court, hence their higher winning% the year prior AND their superior +/- differential. Did you even watch the Cavs?

Plus minus is a worthless stat. If this is the extent of your argument I surely have to lol. If you really want to go by that, then why not go by it in the finals this year when Lebron had the worst +/- on his team during key games... Not just game one where he left with cramps either.


Big Z was nearing retirement and was no longer a productive player. Shows just how much you have to nitpick when you single out such an unproductive reserve who the team didn't miss when he was traded.

Big Z was at the end of his career yes, but still a solid bench contributor and their fifth best rebounder from the year before. He was their ninth best scorer yes, but still was averaging near double figure scoring. Just goes to show how deep their team was before it was completely gutted.


When Mo missed games, Bron simply played more PG and the team went like 10-0 IIRC or some high winning%

Lol. Could easily be rationalized as an anomaly. Eastern Conference was a complete joke that year like it has been every year for the past 15 seasons or so. I would be curious to know the teams they were playing during this miraculous run you speak of. Also just makes his argument even weaker because as I said earlier, Mo Williams is a far cry from Scottie Pippen. Of course a Pippen lead team is going to perform better. Give me a break. Pippen is a top 50 player of All-Time and Mo Williams is not even top 300.


Their SRS was still awful with him around.

Sample size. New coach new system. Clearly there were more factors in play here than just losing Lebron.


Which is MORE than he gave Cleveland in Brons first year, if anything, his mentioning should be an addition. You really hate Bron that much that your slipping this hard? LMFAO

The only valid point you have made. I'll give you that, though I should mention that his level of play dipped off tremendously since the previous year and he was asked to play significantly more minutes than he was used to as a third option... Which is the roll he was always used to playing.


AKA Upgraded Coaching staff. LMFAO

Yes obviously Scott is the better coach and I'm hopeful the Lakers sign him this year, but still have to factor in the gutted roster and new system. The previous years Cavs team was built to play around Lebron, with no Lebron, that cast of characters really didn't fit together all that well.


Thats his point, theres no comp.

Was that really his point... Lol. My take on it was some homeristic Lebron love post implying that Lebron meant more to his team than Jordan did. I was a bit sarcastic by saying that he was comparing Scottie and Williams, but I'm sure you already knew that and that alone should be a huge determining factor as to why the Bulls without Jordan performed better than the Cavs without Lebron. Also have to factor in how much stronger the east was during the mid 90's and a team like the Bulls who essentially had the same championship core and coach in tact less Jordan.


According to ACTUAL statisticians, Mo had his most PRODUCTIVE years ALONGSIDE Bron. So plz stop speaking on things you dont understand.

Who are these actual statistician you speak of and what were the metrics they used... Williams was essentially the same player he was the year before he was traded to the Cavs by most metrics I can think of... Only he posted near a career low in assists when teaming up with Lebron. But that is a theme we see in nearly all of Lebron's teammates throughout the years. Passers average less assists, rebounder average less rebounds, scorers score less, and Lebron somehow continues to be the best scorer, assister, and rebounder on bottom tier scoring, assisting, and rebounding teams. Yet you and others will sit here straight faced and tell me that Lebron's stats come naturally and make his team and teammates better... LMAO.

Wow I know you and Chronz are completely off topic but fantastic post and responses to every single post and poster. You hit on all points... plus minus, team being gutted, coaching and system changes. Bravo!!! Amazing post and rebuttal!!!

ewing
06-22-2014, 01:14 AM
Ive destroyed similar posts in the past. Feel free to attack my previous post for amosier, look forward to seeing what you have to say about the Cavs CONSISTENTLY winning so long as 1 player was around, Bron. It doesn't matter who you put around him, he will fill the gaps accordingly. Its why he could lead a moribund Cavs team to the Finals despite a team that couldn't win a single game in 8 tries without him (IIRC)

in don't understand your post. the cavs were a good team. This is not debatable. Were the heat a lot better then the Cavs the last couple years? The Heat were better but i wouldn't put my mortgage on the heat in a series. the Cavs were very Bron dependent. they were also good. you put a really good defensive team on the floor and play a ball control style a super natural player like Bron he can assert more influence. every one breaks down to slower pace grind where someone has break down D and you have bron. they were a guy away from being a favorite. that'd good you don't deserved to be favorite ever year.

ghettosean
06-22-2014, 01:20 AM
Just to add they did replace Lebron with Alonzo Gee (or Joey Graham take your pick no longer in the NBA i might add) and there superstar hopes after Lebron ran off in the night to Miami was Baron Davis also no longer in the NBA... not even sure who Big Z was replaced with so no doubt they were going to be pathetic.

prodigy
06-22-2014, 02:15 AM
I've made similar posts to this multiple times, don't worry the same posters will make the Cavs/bulls comparison tomorrow like it hold water. Yes, the bulls were better without Jordan, they were also better with him, and the Cavs team was gutted. Its a silly comparison. The Cavs were not the bulls but were a very good team and i actually think Bron influence is multiplied on a defensive ball control team as a opposed to a team that plays a more open style. It an even more suitable style for him now that he uses the post.

Ive destroyed similar posts in the past. Feel free to attack my previous post for amosier, look forward to seeing what you have to say about the Cavs CONSISTENTLY winning so long as 1 player was around, Bron. It doesn't matter who you put around him, he will fill the gaps accordingly. Its why he could lead a moribund Cavs team to the Finals despite a team that couldn't win a single game in 8 tries without him (IIRC)

Every good team has a superstar(s) they depend on. Take that star or stars off that team will be bad. Called the NBA.

ewing
06-22-2014, 02:27 AM
Every good team has a superstar(s) they depend on. Take that star or stars off that team will be bad. Called the NBA.

Yep

Chrisclover
06-22-2014, 04:56 AM
yes, rivalries are clearly good for the game
I admit that the rancor between LBJ and the Pierce-KG-era Celtics is riveting. It was almost a certain thing that the reporters would report/create some tensions before and after each game they played,which made me think that it could be a TV show.

Jamiecballer
06-22-2014, 01:13 PM
Why are you guys debating this? Obviously the Cavs lost more than just Lebron but only marginal contributors so its pretty hard to argue that Lebron wasn't responsible in one way or another for a large percentage of the dropoff.

It would be silly to argue that those other players had zero impact on it just like it would be silly to say they had a big impact considering the players we are talking about and the point they were at in their careers.

Bottom line the bulls had a holdover capable of doing a lot of the things MJ could do while the Cave did not.

JordansBulls
06-22-2014, 01:20 PM
Not sure really. With this guy you never know.

Chronz
06-22-2014, 02:41 PM
Are you really taking this one on, or are you just trolling now. Clearly you see how the Cavs Bulls comparison without Jordan and Lebron the following year is just plain ludicrous. Completely different dynamic all together. In no way does that prove anything about Lebron holding more value to a team than Jordan... Which is what the OP was attempting to infer.
In terms of raw win totals, yes, Bron was incredibly more valuable to the 1-man show in Cleveland than MJ was to a team that could have made the Finals without him. Does that make him more valuable overall? Hell no, but thats not what Im arguing.




Plus minus is a worthless stat. If this is the extent of your argument I surely have to lol.
Extent of my analysis? You offered even less than that by simply naming names. LOL all you want, I said the Cavs were often better without him, which is a fact if you paid attention to the team, did you? That its supported in the kind of lineup analysis that actual statisticians use to gauge these things is something I dont have to apologize for. Feel free to add whatever contextual factors you wish, Im certain you didn't pay much attention to the team, the only thing "worthless" is unsubstantiated opinion with absolutely no supporting evidence of ANY kind.



If you really want to go by that, then why not go by it in the finals this year when Lebron had the worst +/- on his team during key games... Not just game one where he left with cramps either.
+/- analysis isn't restricted to the raw figures of a single series sample. But I would be open to any argument you want to make.



Big Z was at the end of his career yes, but still a solid bench contributor and their fifth best rebounder from the year before. He was their ninth best scorer yes, but still was averaging near double figure scoring. Just goes to show how deep their team was before it was completely gutted.
5th best rebounder? LMFAO was that suppose to distinguish him in some way? Why would I ignore the far more important fact that he was producing at a below league average rate? The team was deep with middling talent, I agree, but that talent winning was predicated on 1 man.




Lol. Could easily be rationalized as an anomaly.
The kind of anomaly you cant just casually dismiss, 10-0 streaks dont just happen. And I just looked it up, they actually went 11-0.



Eastern Conference was a complete joke that year like it has been every year for the past 15 seasons or so.
And yet 11-0 isn't the kind streak that you see often, thats because its far more often a sign of cohesion. That the Cavs achieved it without Bron's sidekick shows you just how important he is. That they went winless without him in seasons past only adds to the evidence Im sure you want to dismiss. And they actually played some quality comp (including the Champion Lakers)




I would be curious to know the teams they were playing during this miraculous run you speak of.
Look it up.


Also just makes his argument even weaker because as I said earlier, Mo Williams is a far cry from Scottie Pippen.
That only strengthens the argument.


Of course a Pippen lead team is going to perform better. Give me a break. Pippen is a top 50 player of All-Time and Mo Williams is not even top 300.
Thats why it should be easy to see just how much more reliant they were on Bron and why the drastic drop off was a result of him leaving.




Sample size. New coach new system. Clearly there were more factors in play here than just losing Lebron.
Factors that never seemed to matter so long as 1 player was around. And the sample size doesn't change the fact that its a FAR greater measurement of the teams level of play and what we should reasonably expect once the sample stabilizes.




The only valid point you have made.
Wish you would return the favor, but your selective analysis is painfully obvious. Im still laughing about 5th best rebounder while ignoring the pitiful OVERALL production and MASSIVE decline in his game.


I'll give you that, though I should mention that his level of play dipped off tremendously since the previous year and he was asked to play significantly more minutes than he was used to as a third option... Which is the roll he was always used to playing.
That would only serve in supporting the importance of Bron being there to optimize the teams lineups.




Yes obviously Scott is the better coach and I'm hopeful the Lakers sign him this year, but still have to factor in the gutted roster and new system.
Would not change the fact that Scott is a MASSIVE upgrade compared to the likes of Brown.


The previous years Cavs team was built to play around Lebron, with no Lebron, that cast of characters really didn't fit together all that well.
Yup, thats why its silly to blame a descent of this kind on the peripheral players that ALL wound up missing time or playing inconsistently, yet the team would never skip a beat so long as 1 person was around. 11-0 without your alleged sidekick says something about Mo's AND Brons value. If you actually saw those games (which Im guessing you at least saw the game vs LA) you would see that Bron simply picked up the slack wherever necessary, elite versatility with that guy.




Was that really his point... Lol. My take on it was some homeristic Lebron love post implying that Lebron meant more to his team than Jordan did. I was a bit sarcastic by saying that he was comparing Scottie and Williams, but I'm sure you already knew that and that alone should be a huge determining factor as to why the Bulls without Jordan performed better than the Cavs without Lebron. Also have to factor in how much stronger the east was during the mid 90's and a team like the Bulls who essentially had the same championship core and coach in tact less Jordan.
Thats not how I took it. As for the Bulls, I know what I would argue here to help explain why the Bulls only dropped off 5 games, it does have to do with championship experience but also quite abit of luck.




Who are these actual statistician you speak of and what were the metrics they used... Williams was essentially the same player he was the year before he was traded to the Cavs by most metrics I can think of... Only he posted near a career low in assists when teaming up with Lebron.
Thats the thing, you can pick blindly among them all and he improved. Career high efficiency/usage combo tends to do that regardless of the metric.


But that is a theme we see in nearly all of Lebron's teammates throughout the years. Passers average less assists, rebounder average less rebounds, scorers score less
They also tend to become more efficient and we've already proven how bad you are at evaluating rebounding. Notice how you lie about bottom tier rebounding teams, as if offensive and defensive rebounding shouldn't be isolated. His first championship team was actually a top 10 defensive rebounding team and his Cavs were actually better at rebounding than you remember.


and Lebron somehow continues to be the best scorer, assister, and rebounder on bottom tier scoring, assisting, and rebounding teams.
It depends on his team and their philosophy. The Cavs were actually a great rebounding team most years. And why are you nit picking about rebounding and assisting when what matters is the collective efficiency of the TEAM. Throughout Brons career, his teams have a tendency of being strong 2-way clubs. Not sure how your theories offset that.


Yet you and others will sit here straight faced and tell me that Lebron's stats come naturally and make his team and teammates better... LMAO.
Thats because we dont deal in a world of extremes. Bron has been a part of a variety of teams, to suggest something like they have all been bad at rebounding is a level of ignorance reserved for those who rather lie than actually take the time to research.

And of course we're straight faced, why would anyone trust you when it comes to statistical analysis? Remember when you tried to tell me Bron would average like 5 rebounds on a great rebounding team? Truly lol worthy. Did you ever find a single statistical model that would project as such BTW? Still waiting on that one huh....

I dont know where you're trying to take this argument (actually I do, its your M.O. to spin things negatively for Bron) but it has nothing to do with the original argument. That the Cavs fell apart because of the dominant force they built around, and not because of a few flimsy pieces that would not explain such a monumental collapse.

I mean lets be real, lets say everything else was equal with the team, the only difference is that Bron isn't around. How many wins do the Cavs get in the year before he left and the year he actually did? Really curious how far your madness stems.

Chronz
06-22-2014, 02:45 PM
No man you're right LeBron is taking stats away from them. He does it on purpose. That's why he karate kicks bosh for a rebound. He's also responsible for all the threes the heat missed because he can't really make a good pass, he just throws it anywhere and prays a teammate catches it. Let's not forget the fact that he calls for the ball every time, and *****es and complains if his teammates dont give it to him. Its all LeBron, a great player and passer, great help defender, versatile individual defender, one of the most efficient 25+ PPG scorers ever, and he's making his team and teammates worse. Obviously, Cleveland is a great example with the success they had after he left. All this time he was holding them back from getting that championship.
Amos1er do you believe the **** you type?

Whats crazy is how he can conjure up a conspiracy that the Cavs have been gifted numerous first rounders as a way to bring back Bron (to give him the support he needs to win there) yet not realize that the jump from lotto to contender is only possible if Bron joins . Thereby reaffirming what we've been saying all along, that the Cavs are utterly dependent on him, so much so that years after hes gone, they are still a downtrodden franchise.

Chronz
06-22-2014, 02:51 PM
in don't understand your post. the cavs were a good team. This is not debatable. Were the heat a lot better then the Cavs the last couple years? The Heat were better but i wouldn't put my mortgage on the heat in a series. the Cavs were very Bron dependent. they were also good. you put a really good defensive team on the floor and play a ball control style a super natural player like Bron he can assert more influence. every one breaks down to slower pace grind where someone has break down D and you have bron. they were a guy away from being a favorite. that'd good you don't deserved to be favorite ever year.
The Cavs were a great team, so long as they had 1 player. Bron. You take him off and you go from a Finals contender, to a lotto team. The Bulls were not that kind of team is the point Im making. To point to a bunch of role players as a big reason when they never seemed to matter so long as Bron was around is underselling the dominance Bron provided.


Wow I know you and Chronz are completely off topic but fantastic post and responses to every single post and poster. You hit on all points... plus minus, team being gutted, coaching and system changes. Bravo!!! Amazing post and rebuttal!!!

LOL. Only if you're a fan of flawed statistical analysis, lies and dismissing more important factors than unsubstantiated opinion.

What did he say about +/-? Nothing. Team being gutted? Those players never seemed to matter when Bron was around. Coaching and System changes were an improvement on the year prior, they just lacked someone like Bron to implement those systematic changes, as he has done in the past.

Im sure you could do better if you tried, plz do because this is TOO easy.

Chronz
06-22-2014, 02:56 PM
Every good team has a superstar(s) they depend on. Take that star or stars off that team will be bad. Called the NBA.

Agreed. Its the level of the dropoff that Im focusing on. Bron carried by far the least talented team to 66 wins. Find me a single other team as productive as those Cavs were, take off their best player, they should at least still have 1 other All-Star caliber producer. Mo wasn't even selected by the coaches to make the All-Star team despite being on the team with the most wins. That shows you just how Bron centric that team was.

If you compare that to say what Kobe dealt with in the past (teams that could compete without him), in fact, in his youth Kobe sitting out is actually what forced him into being a team player as he was forced to see just how effective passing the ball could be.

Goose17
06-22-2014, 02:57 PM
He has more chance of signing with Atlantis than any of the other 29 teams not named Miami.

Chronz
06-22-2014, 02:57 PM
Ok. Hey everyone Scottie Pippen is better than Moe Williams. Just thought I'd let everyone in on this huge secret that I left out.

Dude I really think you have a disability. My point was The bulls were a good team with or without Jordan and that the Cavs were a bad team without Bron. To show your lack of understanding, you went on a diatribe about how a Pippen led team was better than a Moe williams led team only proving my point but somehow trying to prove me wrong by stating this.

I said three sentences so no I haven't back pedaled from anything I said. Now you took those three sentences and made it into a novel of random arguments.

Great stuff dude. Funny watching you pat yourself on the back for being the master of the obvious while backing up my point. Your a beauty.

LOL . Ur best post against him yet.

Its like he doesn't know hes only arguing for us by announcing Pippens superiority, as if the world doesn't already know this.

5ass
06-22-2014, 03:52 PM
In terms of raw win totals, yes, Bron was incredibly more valuable to the 1-man show in Cleveland than MJ was to a team that could have made the Finals without him. Does that make him more valuable overall? Hell no, but thats not what Im arguing.




Extent of my analysis? You offered even less than that by simply naming names. LOL all you want, I said the Cavs were often better without him, which is a fact if you paid attention to the team, did you? That its supported in the kind of lineup analysis that actual statisticians use to gauge these things is something I dont have to apologize for. Feel free to add whatever contextual factors you wish, Im certain you didn't pay much attention to the team, the only thing "worthless" is unsubstantiated opinion with absolutely no supporting evidence of ANY kind.



+/- analysis isn't restricted to the raw figures of a single series sample. But I would be open to any argument you want to make.



5th best rebounder? LMFAO was that suppose to distinguish him in some way? Why would I ignore the far more important fact that he was producing at a below league average rate? The team was deep with middling talent, I agree, but that talent winning was predicated on 1 man.




The kind of anomaly you cant just casually dismiss, 10-0 streaks dont just happen. And I just looked it up, they actually went 11-0.



And yet 11-0 isn't the kind streak that you see often, thats because its far more often a sign of cohesion. That the Cavs achieved it without Bron's sidekick shows you just how important he is. That they went winless without him in seasons past only adds to the evidence Im sure you want to dismiss. And they actually played some quality comp (including the Champion Lakers)




Look it up.


That only strengthens the argument.


Thats why it should be easy to see just how much more reliant they were on Bron and why the drastic drop off was a result of him leaving.




Factors that never seemed to matter so long as 1 player was around. And the sample size doesn't change the fact that its a FAR greater measurement of the teams level of play and what we should reasonably expect once the sample stabilizes.




Wish you would return the favor, but your selective analysis is painfully obvious. Im still laughing about 5th best rebounder while ignoring the pitiful OVERALL production and MASSIVE decline in his game.


That would only serve in supporting the importance of Bron being there to optimize the teams lineups.




Would not change the fact that Scott is a MASSIVE upgrade compared to the likes of Brown.


Yup, thats why its silly to blame a descent of this kind on the peripheral players that ALL wound up missing time or playing inconsistently, yet the team would never skip a beat so long as 1 person was around. 11-0 without your alleged sidekick says something about Mo's AND Brons value. If you actually saw those games (which Im guessing you at least saw the game vs LA) you would see that Bron simply picked up the slack wherever necessary, elite versatility with that guy.




Thats not how I took it. As for the Bulls, I know what I would argue here to help explain why the Bulls only dropped off 5 games, it does have to do with championship experience but also quite abit of luck.




Thats the thing, you can pick blindly among them all and he improved. Career high efficiency/usage combo tends to do that regardless of the metric.


They also tend to become more efficient and we've already proven how bad you are at evaluating rebounding. Notice how you lie about bottom tier rebounding teams, as if offensive and defensive rebounding shouldn't be isolated. His first championship team was actually a top 10 defensive rebounding team and his Cavs were actually better at rebounding than you remember.


It depends on his team and their philosophy. The Cavs were actually a great rebounding team most years. And why are you nit picking about rebounding and assisting when what matters is the collective efficiency of the TEAM. Throughout Brons career, his teams have a tendency of being strong 2-way clubs. Not sure how your theories offset that.


Thats because we dont deal in a world of extremes. Bron has been a part of a variety of teams, to suggest something like they have all been bad at rebounding is a level of ignorance reserved for those who rather lie than actually take the time to research.

And of course we're straight faced, why would anyone trust you when it comes to statistical analysis? Remember when you tried to tell me Bron would average like 5 rebounds on a great rebounding team? Truly lol worthy. Did you ever find a single statistical model that would project as such BTW? Still waiting on that one huh....

I dont know where you're trying to take this argument (actually I do, its your M.O. to spin things negatively for Bron) but it has nothing to do with the original argument. That the Cavs fell apart because of the dominant force they built around, and not because of a few flimsy pieces that would not explain such a monumental collapse.

I mean lets be real, lets say everything else was equal with the team, the only difference is that Bron isn't around. How many wins do the Cavs get in the year before he left and the year he actually did? Really curious how far your madness stems.
If I can add one thing you didn't mention is that the cavs had a full off season under mike brown and started off strong, actually having a better record than Miami the first 15 or so games. So that goes against his new coach new system argument. Other than that, all I have to say to him is LeBron made brown coach of the year, and Kobe made him look like the worst coach in basketball. Great reply though, Its funny how much he hates LeBron lol. Like a jealous little kid.

FlashBolt
06-22-2014, 08:34 PM
Amos1er, how many of LeBron's 2008 teammates are still playing at a high level? 0. Antawn Jamison went from being their second best player to playing in the bench for the Clippers. Mo Williams, who is considered one of James best teammates at Cleveland is now a bench player for the Trailblazers and hasn't generated any buzz in the free agency market. Ilgauskas retired, Varejao is injured, and Cleveland is still losing 4 years later. Yet, that is not enough proof to convince you that LeBron was the reason they were even winning? Mike Brown won COTY and beat the likes of Pop, Doc, Phil, and other great coaches. Mike Brown came into LAL and was fired. Mike Brown then came into the Cavailers and got fired. This is one of the worst coaches who only got COTY because of LeBron's impact on the team. The year after Jordan left, Pippen leads his team to 55-27 and was one win away from the ECF. The year after James left, well, no one really cared for the Cavs. They still to this day have not played a playoff game since James left - over 4 fricking years ago and nearly 300 games later. The reason why when Kobe is passing and his team tends to win is because - wait for it - his teammates can play. Kobe just hogs the opportunities from them. Superior competition? This Spurs team would give Kobe nightmares. You act as if this Spurs team was a complete joke. Newsflash, they beat the second best player and swept the Blazers. Oh yeah, they have a pretty good roster and coach. Cleveland 4 years ago lost LeBron and 4 years later after all that happened, are still trying to get LeBron! It is quite funny, though, that amos1er and his minions are calling other people bad posters yet they still think that Cleveland squad was stacked.. LOL.
Scottie Pippen vs Mo.. I have to admit, the fact that Amos1er even brought that comparison up was just hysterical.

kickflip.master
06-22-2014, 09:21 PM
i don't know why but i feel that Atlanta and golden state are the best teams for lebron. Both would be top 3-4 teams in the league if lebron goes there.
I can explain the warriors choice because of klay and curry with bogut in the paint for defense, rebounding and putbacks.
i can't fully explain the atlanta choice but they do seem like they would run the spurs system better than the spurs in lebron goes there.

FlashBolt
06-22-2014, 09:25 PM
Whichever team LeBron goes will most likely be a top team so regardless of what is being said, there is no team that wouldn't improve because of James.

jerellh528
06-22-2014, 09:28 PM
Whichever team LeBron goes will most likely be a top team so regardless of what is being said, there is no team that wouldn't improve because of James.

Ya don't say

beliges
06-22-2014, 10:10 PM
Whichever team LeBron goes will most likely be a top team so regardless of what is being said, there is no team that wouldn't improve because of James.

I don't see how.lebron can possibly leave. I mean the heat were the favorites to.win it all this year and are already the favorites for next season. How much more of a talented team can he possibly join.

amos1er
06-23-2014, 05:09 AM
In terms of raw win totals, yes, Bron was incredibly more valuable to the 1-man show in Cleveland than MJ was to a team that could have made the Finals without him. Does that make him more valuable overall? Hell no, but thats not what Im arguing.




Extent of my analysis? You offered even less than that by simply naming names. LOL all you want, I said the Cavs were often better without him, which is a fact if you paid attention to the team, did you? That its supported in the kind of lineup analysis that actual statisticians use to gauge these things is something I dont have to apologize for. Feel free to add whatever contextual factors you wish, Im certain you didn't pay much attention to the team, the only thing "worthless" is unsubstantiated opinion with absolutely no supporting evidence of ANY kind.



+/- analysis isn't restricted to the raw figures of a single series sample. But I would be open to any argument you want to make.



5th best rebounder? LMFAO was that suppose to distinguish him in some way? Why would I ignore the far more important fact that he was producing at a below league average rate? The team was deep with middling talent, I agree, but that talent winning was predicated on 1 man.




The kind of anomaly you cant just casually dismiss, 10-0 streaks dont just happen. And I just looked it up, they actually went 11-0.



And yet 11-0 isn't the kind streak that you see often, thats because its far more often a sign of cohesion. That the Cavs achieved it without Bron's sidekick shows you just how important he is. That they went winless without him in seasons past only adds to the evidence Im sure you want to dismiss. And they actually played some quality comp (including the Champion Lakers)




Look it up.


That only strengthens the argument.


Thats why it should be easy to see just how much more reliant they were on Bron and why the drastic drop off was a result of him leaving.




Factors that never seemed to matter so long as 1 player was around. And the sample size doesn't change the fact that its a FAR greater measurement of the teams level of play and what we should reasonably expect once the sample stabilizes.




Wish you would return the favor, but your selective analysis is painfully obvious. Im still laughing about 5th best rebounder while ignoring the pitiful OVERALL production and MASSIVE decline in his game.


That would only serve in supporting the importance of Bron being there to optimize the teams lineups.




Would not change the fact that Scott is a MASSIVE upgrade compared to the likes of Brown.


Yup, thats why its silly to blame a descent of this kind on the peripheral players that ALL wound up missing time or playing inconsistently, yet the team would never skip a beat so long as 1 person was around. 11-0 without your alleged sidekick says something about Mo's AND Brons value. If you actually saw those games (which Im guessing you at least saw the game vs LA) you would see that Bron simply picked up the slack wherever necessary, elite versatility with that guy.




Thats not how I took it. As for the Bulls, I know what I would argue here to help explain why the Bulls only dropped off 5 games, it does have to do with championship experience but also quite abit of luck.




Thats the thing, you can pick blindly among them all and he improved. Career high efficiency/usage combo tends to do that regardless of the metric.


They also tend to become more efficient and we've already proven how bad you are at evaluating rebounding. Notice how you lie about bottom tier rebounding teams, as if offensive and defensive rebounding shouldn't be isolated. His first championship team was actually a top 10 defensive rebounding team and his Cavs were actually better at rebounding than you remember.


It depends on his team and their philosophy. The Cavs were actually a great rebounding team most years. And why are you nit picking about rebounding and assisting when what matters is the collective efficiency of the TEAM. Throughout Brons career, his teams have a tendency of being strong 2-way clubs. Not sure how your theories offset that.


Thats because we dont deal in a world of extremes. Bron has been a part of a variety of teams, to suggest something like they have all been bad at rebounding is a level of ignorance reserved for those who rather lie than actually take the time to research.

And of course we're straight faced, why would anyone trust you when it comes to statistical analysis? Remember when you tried to tell me Bron would average like 5 rebounds on a great rebounding team? Truly lol worthy. Did you ever find a single statistical model that would project as such BTW? Still waiting on that one huh....

I dont know where you're trying to take this argument (actually I do, its your M.O. to spin things negatively for Bron) but it has nothing to do with the original argument. That the Cavs fell apart because of the dominant force they built around, and not because of a few flimsy pieces that would not explain such a monumental collapse.

I mean lets be real, lets say everything else was equal with the team, the only difference is that Bron isn't around. How many wins do the Cavs get in the year before he left and the year he actually did? Really curious how far your madness stems.

Without getting sidetracked and falling into your usual go-to tactic trap of getting caught up in a bombardment of red herrings and wasting an hour of my time in a futile effort that will lead nowhere, I will summarize my original point once again...

In no way can one use the situation where Lebron left Cleveland in 2010 and compare it to when Jordan left Chicago briefly in 93 to quantify in any way shape or form that Lebron is more valuable to a team than Jordan was based on the previous years wins and losses. There are too many differing variables in play here to ascertain such a conclusion. The fact that the Cavs were nearly gutted and brought in a brand new coach in addition to the departure of James and the fact that Jordan's championship squad was completely in tact with the same coach and system with the only major change being that Jordan left just leaves too many unknowns to say without a doubt that one or the other was more or less valuable to their team. Now factor in differing era's and the fact that the Bulls were lead by Scottie Pippen who was a far better player than Mo Williams who led the Cavs according to the OP and also only played in 36 games for them that season and it becomes even more difficult to prove. The burden of proof is on you and is impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt additionally. The end.

amos1er
06-23-2014, 05:19 AM
Agreed. Its the level of the dropoff that Im focusing on. Bron carried by far the least talented team to 66 wins. Find me a single other team as productive as those Cavs were, take off their best player, they should at least still have 1 other All-Star caliber producer. Mo wasn't even selected by the coaches to make the All-Star team despite being on the team with the most wins. That shows you just how Bron centric that team was.

If you compare that to say what Kobe dealt with in the past (teams that could compete without him), in fact, in his youth Kobe sitting out is actually what forced him into being a team player as he was forced to see just how effective passing the ball could be.

Ugh... Eastern Conference. You always seem to conveniently forget to factor that variable into the equation.

More competition at the guard spot than at the power forward/center spot might also explain why Mo would have a harder time making the team than say Pau who btw had only one All-Star selection and zero playoff wins to boot before teaming up with Kobe. Heck, even Kaman made the team as a reserve in 2010.

I really don't get how you can hand your hat on the argument that Lebron led the Cavs to 66 wins in the regular season in the eastern conference and somehow think that is the case cracker. Lebron had a much much better supporting cast on the Heat and wasn't able to get 66 wins in the regular season. Of course he did win two championships which is much more important proves the point that 66 regular seasons in a watered down conference is meaningless if you lose to the teams in the playoffs that you worked all regular season to get HCA over in the first place. In the Western Conference, those Cavs teams would have been lucky to win 50 games and surely James would not have been in MVP discussions as a result which also goes to show just how much his MVP's were a result of convenience (playing in the East) than actual dominance over the ENTIRE league.

amos1er
06-23-2014, 05:22 AM
LOL . Ur best post against him yet.

Now I know your trolling. Lol.


Its like he doesn't know hes only arguing for us by announcing Pippens superiority, as if the world doesn't already know this.

This is going right over you head isn't it. Point being is that obviously a team led by Pippen and the same core and coach that won a championship in the previous year is going to perform significantly better than a team led by Mo Williams for only 36 games, a gutted rosters, and a new coach. The Pippen/Williams comparison just makes your point even more difficult to prove. Only way we could ascertain Jordan's/Lebron's comparative values to a team would be to go back in time and swap players. Seeing as how we can't do that and also taking into account that certain players perform better in certain systems regardless, just makes your argument even more baseless and impossible to prove.

Asik's better
06-23-2014, 07:11 AM
Why are you guys debating this? Obviously the Cavs lost more than just Lebron but only marginal contributors so its pretty hard to argue that Lebron wasn't responsible in one way or another for a large percentage of the dropoff.

It would be silly to argue that those other players had zero impact on it just like it would be silly to say they had a big impact considering the players we are talking about and the point they were at in their careers.

Bottom line the bulls had a holdover capable of doing a lot of the things MJ could do while the Cave did not.
This whole argument should of stopped at this post. Perfect post.

Munkeysuit
06-23-2014, 07:19 AM
No one knew he was going to Miami the first time around, and now everyone thinks they know what's his next move is? everything is speculation, some of these predictions make a lot of sense and some could be true! BUT no one really knows, however, I am really glad people actually care about Lebrons decision.

IKnowHoops
06-23-2014, 11:41 AM
How do you explain Lebron's teams being mediocre to bottom ranked in scoring, assisting, and rebounding throughout his career then. But heck, Lebron is consistently the best in all three on his team so lets just ignore all of that right... LMAO

Why is it then that Kobe has been the best scorer, and passer on his teams that have won rings against superior competition and less help than Lebron when those teams were tops in the league in both scoring, and assisting... Kind of puts things into perspective about all of this stats nonsense doesn't it...

Clearly when Kobe is leading his teams in assists and points, his teams benefit and when Lebron is leading his teams in points, assists, and rebounds, his teams don't live up to the hype. Check Wade and Bosh's statistical decline since teaming up with Lebron if you don't believe me.

Your lack of understanding statistics is getting funny. Wade is at his physical worst ever, yet his efficiency is at his best ever. This is because Lebron makes it easy for him to score. He plays less minutes than ever, so of course he's going to score less points. He can't destroy guys in Iso situation anymore because of his knees and age, yet he is still at his career best in efficiency. Players may not score as much with Bron, but they are usually much more efficient. But instead you go to your "go to" Its Lebrons fault. Even when you watch a Heat team in which none can get a bucket on there own accept Lebron you still say Lebrons fault. Your just a hater dude, thats it. Period end of story. And your such a hater that you can't even understand what is being said. You keep talking about How Pippen is better than Mo as if that disproves anything. That bolsters the argument for me. Lebron won 66 games with Mo as his best player. More than Jordan won with Pippen for many years. Mo is not a good player. If Mo is the second best player on a championship contender your in trouble. Did you watch how bad Mo was in the playoffs? He was shooting right around 20%. Anyway as hard as your trying to make a point of why you can't compare Brons value compared to Jordans value, all your showing is that you have to much hate in your heart for Lebron to understand what the argument is. Go back an re read what I wrote. It was never about comparing Jordans value to Lebrons value. It was about comparing Jordan's teams value, to Lebron's teams value. The Bulls were a good team with or without Jordan that is a fact. The Cavs have been awful ever since Lebrons departure, that is a fact. They have been more talented than the teammates of Bron and they have still been awful, that is a fact. Again, you need to work on comprehension and understanding because you are arguing with yourself and making my points for me half the time you type.

IKnowHoops
06-23-2014, 11:43 AM
in don't understand your post. the cavs were a good team. This is not debatable. Were the heat a lot better then the Cavs the last couple years? The Heat were better but i wouldn't put my mortgage on the heat in a series. the Cavs were very Bron dependent. they were also good. you put a really good defensive team on the floor and play a ball control style a super natural player like Bron he can assert more influence. every one breaks down to slower pace grind where someone has break down D and you have bron. they were a guy away from being a favorite. that'd good you don't deserved to be favorite ever year.

They were a good team because of Bron. Take Bron off that team, and they don't make the playoffs. Unlike the Bulls teams. Thats the point. Any team with Bron on it is a good team.

IKnowHoops
06-23-2014, 11:47 AM
Whats crazy is how he can conjure up a conspiracy that the Cavs have been gifted numerous first rounders as a way to bring back Bron (to give him the support he needs to win there) yet not realize that the jump from lotto to contender is only possible if Bron joins . Thereby reaffirming what we've been saying all along, that the Cavs are utterly dependent on him, so much so that years after hes gone, they are still a downtrodden franchise.

Thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiis!!!!!!!!!!!

DetroitBadBoy
06-23-2014, 11:48 AM
Well Detroit would be nice but him leaving Miami never sounded realistic. Why would he want to leave Miami?

ewing
06-23-2014, 11:49 AM
They were a good team because of Bron. Take Bron off that team, and they don't make the playoffs. Unlike the Bulls teams. Thats the point. Any team with Bron on it is a good team.

you don't know hoops

NYKnickFanatic
06-23-2014, 11:54 AM
James' wife just posted a pic on Instagram of Akron saying, "Home sweet home, the countdown is real!!!," for whatever that's worth.

NYKnickFanatic
06-23-2014, 11:57 AM
Supposedly he has enrolled his kids in Ohio for school.

ichitownclowni
06-23-2014, 12:03 PM
Yea he also bought a warehouse in Chicago a few years back lol

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

ichitownclowni
06-23-2014, 12:06 PM
James' wife just posted a pic on Instagram of Akron saying, "Home sweet home, the countdown is real!!!," for whatever that's worth.

They also still have a home in Akron

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

ichitownclowni
06-23-2014, 12:06 PM
http://www.complex.com/sports/2014/06/lebron-james-wife-savannah-instagram-post

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

Chronz
06-23-2014, 12:18 PM
I don't see how.lebron can possibly leave. I mean the heat were the favorites to.win
By the time the Finals rolled around, they were under dogs and had displayed a lower level of play all year. The only reason the team was given any chance was because of the Bron effect, that and people assumed Wade was revving up for his best performance of the year, it is what they saved him for all year.


it all this year and are already the favorites for next season. How much more of a talented team can he possibly join.

Any team he joins would be among the favorites, you've ignored that point twice now. The Heat aren't as talented as you pretend they are. They were probably the 4/5th best team in the league last year, which is fine, but there are other improving teams in the East that suddenly find the conference wide open with a depleted EC Champ.

Chronz
06-23-2014, 12:46 PM
Without getting sidetracked and falling into your usual go-to tactic trap of getting caught up in a bombardment of red herrings and wasting an hour of my time in a futile effort that will lead nowhere, I will summarize my original point once again...
When all else fails, regurgitate. ...


In no way can one use the situation where Lebron left Cleveland in 2010 and compare it to when Jordan left Chicago briefly in 93 to quantify in any way shape or form that Lebron is more valuable to a team than Jordan was based on the previous years wins and losses.
Speak for yourself.


There are too many differing variables in play here to ascertain such a conclusion.
Variables that upon inspection, were actually of negligible importance when discussing the disparity of their respective teams descent.


The fact that the Cavs were nearly gutted and brought in a brand new coach in addition to the departure of James and the fact that Jordan's championship squad was completely in tact with the same coach and system with the only major change being that Jordan left just leaves too many unknowns to say without a doubt that one or the other was more or less valuable to their team.
False, I've already outlined why these peripheral factor were actually minuscule in importance. Its why I asked you to provide any sort of projection from those squads in hypothetical situations. It doesn't even have to be objective/statistically inclined(that would be expecting FAR too much here), you can toss out whatever subjective blurb you want, Im just honestly curious as this point.


Now factor in differing era's and the fact that the Bulls were lead by Scottie Pippen who was a far better player than Mo Williams who led the Cavs according to the OP and also only played in 36 games for them that season and it becomes even more difficult to prove.
Actually, that only enhances the argument because it shows you just how reliant the Cavs were on Bron, whereas the Bulls had HOF'ers leading them in Phil+Pip.

Now plz do tell me, how exactly are you factoring the different eras? Or do you think spewing cliches is somehow an argument in and of itself?



The burden of proof is on you and is impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt additionally. The end.
Something being impossible to prove doesn't prevent us both from making subjective breakdowns/hypotheticals of all sorts. It doesn't prevent us from debating, that you resort to "you cant prove it 100%" is the biggest white flag you've ever raised, the "the end" to seal it was an especially nice touch. Sorry bud, the points I raised still stand, none of the factors you mentioned ever seemed to matter so long as 1 man was around. That a few of those factors were actually ADDITIONS to the team (like Ramon Sessions+Antawn Jamison actually being with them from day 1) only lessen the gap.


Ugh... Eastern Conference. You always seem to conveniently forget to factor that variable into the equation.
Nope, I factored it in. Now show me how I didn't before you bring up "equations". This should be interesting LMFAO. The actual "equations" we have as barometers for team level of play do not support your extremist stance.


More competition at the guard spot than at the power forward/center spot might also explain why Mo would have a harder time making the team
Not sure if positions matter when your such a "meh" player anyways. He was on the team with the most wins in the league. I repeat, MOST WINS. That he couldn't make it over the likes of Devin Harris on an awful team despite that advantage is my point. He was basically gifted the spot so that Cleveland could send 2 All-Stars while a team like Boston/Orlando each sent 2 or more despite less team success. Just goes to show how much Cleveland relied on Bron, as opposed to the Bulls who could compete without MJ.


than say Pau who btw had only one All-Star selection and zero playoff wins to boot before teaming up with Kobe. Heck, even Kaman made the team as a reserve in 2010.
I think you forget that Kaman made the team as Stern's selection as well. He was clearly never as productive or as influential as Pau.


I really don't get how you can hand your hat on the argument that Lebron led the Cavs to 66 wins in the regular season in the eastern conference and somehow think that is the case cracker.
Case cracker of what, exactly?


Lebron had a much much better supporting cast on the Heat and wasn't able to get 66 wins in the regular season. Of course he did win two championships which is much more important proves the point that 66 regular seasons in a watered down conference is meaningless if you lose to the teams in the playoffs that you worked all regular season to get HCA over in the first place.
Different teams played to different strengths. I never contested that he had better teams in Miami, hence me focusing on Cleveland here.



In the Western Conference, those Cavs teams would have been lucky to win 50 games
Not by any credible projection system. But if we are throwing out unsubstantiated numbers with no rhyme or reason then sure, by all means knock yourself out, by why would someone like me even care? Its like I always tell you, the minute you start spewing out any sort of number, keep in mind who you are talking to. That **** may fly with the casuals but not with someone who actually pays attention to the statistical movement. If you think your opinion carries more weight than the APBR barometers in place then we aren't going anywhere with this debate.



and surely James would not have been in MVP discussions as a result which also goes to show just how much his MVP's were a result of convenience (playing in the East) than actual dominance over the ENTIRE league.
Ladies and gentlemen, we've entered full blown rage mode.


Now I know your trolling. Lol.



This is going right over you head isn't it. Point being is that obviously a team led by Pippen and the same core and coach that won a championship in the previous year is going to perform significantly better than a team led by Mo Williams for only 36 games, a gutted rosters, and a new coach. The Pippen/Williams comparison just makes your point even more difficult to prove. Only way we could ascertain Jordan's/Lebron's comparative values to a team would be to go back in time and swap players. Seeing as how we can't do that and also taking into account that certain players perform better in certain systems regardless, just makes your argument even more baseless and impossible to prove.
Nah, I prefer to look at the evidence actually available and debate the likeliest conclusion than use the cop-out that we dont have a time machine to prove all sorts of theories. I disagree with that being the sole method and deep down inside, I know you do too.

Chronz
06-23-2014, 01:01 PM
you don't know hoops

At least he reports the facts instead of trying to pervert logic in a way where you can have your cake and eat it too.

Chronz
06-23-2014, 01:05 PM
If I can add one thing you didn't mention is that the cavs had a full off season under mike brown and started off strong, actually having a better record than Miami the first 15 or so games. So that goes against his new coach new system argument. Other than that, all I have to say to him is LeBron made brown coach of the year, and Kobe made him look like the worst coach in basketball. Great reply though, Its funny how much he hates LeBron lol. Like a jealous little kid.
Thing is, even when Cleveland got off to a relatively good start in terms of wins, they were still god awful in terms of efficiency. Its why even when the Heat were 8-8, their level of efficiency was indicative of a Finals contender, so at that point , that score was the most likeliest projection, that it was bolstered by their actual talent level and them actually making the Finals is as concrete as you can get. The Cavs were winning, but they weren't likely to sustain it based on their efficiency and low talent level.

KnicksorBust
06-23-2014, 01:10 PM
I'm mad at the Cavs. They should have already traded that #1 overall pick for Kevin Love. Kyrie Irving + Kevin Love is such a better version of Wade/Bosh at this point that LeBron would have to seriously consider relocating.

BKLYNpigeon
06-23-2014, 01:26 PM
Lebron is staying with Miami, why is this thread still open?

Heatcheck
06-23-2014, 01:30 PM
I'm mad at the Cavs. They should have already traded that #1 overall pick for Kevin Love. Kyrie Irving + Kevin Love is such a better version of Wade/Bosh at this point that LeBron would have to seriously consider relocating.

Love is from southern California, he's not moving to cleveland

ewing
06-23-2014, 01:35 PM
At least he reports the facts instead of trying to pervert logic in a way where you can have your cake and eat it too.


i would do no such thing. logic is wholesome and pure

KnicksorBust
06-23-2014, 01:42 PM
Love is from southern California, he's not moving to cleveland

If he woke up in 2 weeks and realized his new teammates were Kyrie Irving and LeBron James, I'm sure he could warm up to that idea. :)

KnicksorBust
06-23-2014, 01:43 PM
Thing is, even when Cleveland got off to a relatively good start in terms of wins, they were still god awful in terms of efficiency. Its why even when the Heat were 8-8, their level of efficiency was indicative of a Finals contender, so at that point , that score was the most likeliest projection, that it was bolstered by their actual talent level and them actually making the Finals is as concrete as you can get. The Cavs were winning, but they weren't likely to sustain it based on their efficiency and low talent level.

Where do you think he should go?

Heatcheck
06-23-2014, 02:11 PM
If he woke up in 2 weeks and realized his new teammates were Kyrie Irving and LeBron James, I'm sure he could warm up to that idea. :)

no cuz, Cleveland is Cleveland. have you been to Cleveland? its the furthest thing from southern California ever, ever.
to each his own, not knocking Cleveland, but I doubt Irving and the possibility of playing with LeBron is going to sway him. I think golden state is the best bet.

prodigy
06-23-2014, 02:11 PM
I see lot of posts about the cavs old teams and the heat. Let's talk about right now. Right now you take lebron off the heat cavs are a better team I'm not sure that can even be debated after what we just saw from wade and bosh in the finals. wade is on the back 9 and just pulled out his putter, bosh has become a 3pt shooter who can't defend or rebound. Its all lebron and he even said this has been the toughest season he's ever been threw.

Now you look at the cavs. People need to stop bashing the city, I mean grow up already. Every major city has nice areas and crap hole areas Cleveland is the same. As for the team-

1. Cap space. Their young talent are still on rookie contracts so cavs currently have the cap space to sign not only lebron but another star if they could.

2. #1 pick. They have options here, keep the pick and build with that player or trade it for a proven star.

3. Young talent and depth. Irving, waiters, Thompson, #1 pick, Bennett, AV, Zeller, hawes, jack, miles, whoever they sign with cap etc...

Heat cannot offer any of that.

DaBear
06-23-2014, 02:15 PM
I see lot of posts about the cavs old teams and the heat. Let's talk about right now. Right now you take lebron off the heat cavs are a better team I'm not sure that can even be debated after what we just saw from wade and bosh in the finals. wade is on the back 9 and just pulled out his putter, bosh has become a 3pt shooter who can't defend or rebound. Its all lebron and he even said this has been the toughest season he's ever been threw.

Now you look at the cavs. People need to stop bashing the city, I mean grow up already. Every major city has nice areas and crap hole areas Cleveland is the same. As for the team-

1. Cap space. Their young talent are still on rookie contracts so cavs currently have the cap space to sign not only lebron but another star if they could.

2. #1 pick. They have options here, keep the pick and build with that player or trade it for a proven star.

3. Young talent and depth. Irving, waiters, Thompson, #1 pick, Bennett, AV, Zeller, hawes, jack, miles, whoever they sign with cap etc...

Heat cannot offer any of that.

Not trying to poke fun, but Cleveland does really blow. Like Noah said, who goes to Cleveland?

Tony_Starks
06-23-2014, 02:23 PM
I'm so tired of this Lebron needs more help nonsense. It doesn't matter how many allstar teams you construct around him, nobody is going to win every year. There's a reason only a few teams in history have 3 peated.

People act like they actually believed the "not 1, not 2, not 3......" jargon. Did you guys really expect them to win like 6 straight titles or something?

prodigy
06-23-2014, 02:33 PM
I see lot of posts about the cavs old teams and the heat. Let's talk about right now. Right now you take lebron off the heat cavs are a better team I'm not sure that can even be debated after what we just saw from wade and bosh in the finals. wade is on the back 9 and just pulled out his putter, bosh has become a 3pt shooter who can't defend or rebound. Its all lebron and he even said this has been the toughest season he's ever been threw.

Now you look at the cavs. People need to stop bashing the city, I mean grow up already. Every major city has nice areas and crap hole areas Cleveland is the same. As for the team-

1. Cap space. Their young talent are still on rookie contracts so cavs currently have the cap space to sign not only lebron but another star if they could.

2. #1 pick. They have options here, keep the pick and build with that player or trade it for a proven star.

3. Young talent and depth. Irving, waiters, Thompson, #1 pick, Bennett, AV, Zeller, hawes, jack, miles, whoever they sign with cap etc...

Heat cannot offer any of that.

Not trying to poke fun, but Cleveland does really blow. Like Noah said, who goes to Cleveland?

People who live there? Lol, also other parts of Ohio. We are ranked #1 in Nicest suburbs for a reason. Also cleveland isn't a vacation spot dude, nobody ever said that. Its a working city. You can take what you said and apply it to amost any city that's not on a beach lol.

Wanna hear my first Chicago experience? Honest truth not ment to be raciest. I was staying in Rosemont and we decided to see the city and took the subway. When we walk up to street level the first thing we see are over 200 black young adults fighting and running around in the street and over 30 police officers on horse back and prob 20 more in cars and walking around. A officer even stopped us and asked what we were doing. We said wanted to shop. This is right in middle of down town too lol. That has never happened to me in Cleveland. Never.

NYKnickFanatic
06-23-2014, 02:36 PM
Lebron is staying with Miami, why is this thread still open?

Oh, he opted in already?

KnicksorBust
06-23-2014, 02:40 PM
I'm so tired of this Lebron needs more help nonsense. It doesn't matter how many allstar teams you construct around him, nobody is going to win every year. There's a reason only a few teams in history have 3 peated.

People act like they actually believed the "not 1, not 2, not 3......" jargon. Did you guys really expect them to win like 6 straight titles or something?

I predicted 4 titles in 5 years. You do realize that LeBron and Wade were both top 5 players at the time? And Bosh was top 20? When those types teams form, it is theirs for the taking. The way Wade is playing and their inability to re-tool makes it questionable if Miami is the best place for him to win the most titles. At the end of the day, I think he stays. He's tied himself there. However, there is a reason why Cleveland rumors haven't completely disappeared. A part of him probably wants that homecoming and with Kyrie Irving (22) and Kevin Love (25) both in Cleveland that would create another 5-7 year window where he could win titles. Plus they both fit him perfectly as talented scorers who can shoot from anywhere on the floor and are deadly on the perimeter.

Wade n Fade
06-23-2014, 02:40 PM
The thread is about to get hit w/ more drones saying Savannah James' Instagram photo will determine his next basketball team. I really find how the media creates nonsense out of nothing annoying. Stop buying into the crap and they will move onto something else, people. I just can't wait till July 11th-13ish. This FA nonsense will be over by that time. 2010 was rough, but this is as almost as bad.

DaBear
06-23-2014, 02:43 PM
I see lot of posts about the cavs old teams and the heat. Let's talk about right now. Right now you take lebron off the heat cavs are a better team I'm not sure that can even be debated after what we just saw from wade and bosh in the finals. wade is on the back 9 and just pulled out his putter, bosh has become a 3pt shooter who can't defend or rebound. Its all lebron and he even said this has been the toughest season he's ever been threw.

Now you look at the cavs. People need to stop bashing the city, I mean grow up already. Every major city has nice areas and crap hole areas Cleveland is the same. As for the team-

1. Cap space. Their young talent are still on rookie contracts so cavs currently have the cap space to sign not only lebron but another star if they could.

2. #1 pick. They have options here, keep the pick and build with that player or trade it for a proven star.

3. Young talent and depth. Irving, waiters, Thompson, #1 pick, Bennett, AV, Zeller, hawes, jack, miles, whoever they sign with cap etc...

Heat cannot offer any of that.

Not trying to poke fun, but Cleveland does really blow. Like Noah said, who goes to Cleveland?

People who live there? Lol, also other parts of Ohio. We are ranked #1 in Nicest suburbs for a reason. Also cleveland isn't a vacation spot dude, nobody ever said that. Its a working city. You can take what you said and apply it to amost any city that's not on a beach lol.

I'm pretty sure Cleveland is one of the last cities people talk about relocating to. It's not in a big market, the weather sucks, there isn't much to do there, it's in ohio. Not much else needs to be said

prodigy
06-23-2014, 02:44 PM
The thread is about to get hit w/ more drones saying Savannah James' Instagram photo will determine his next basketball team. I really find how the media creates nonsense out of nothing annoying. Stop buying into the crap and they will move onto something else, people. I just can't wait till July 11th-13ish. This FA nonsense will be over by that time. 2010 was rough, but this is as almost as bad.

Heat fans feeling the pressure lol. Don't worry bud I'm sure your just pick a new team.

Wade n Fade
06-23-2014, 02:46 PM
Heat fans feeling the pressure lol. Don't worry bud I'm sure your just pick a new team.

I love how you don't even know me but insist that I am banwagonner. Try watching Yakoba Diawara then call me a banwagonner.

prodigy
06-23-2014, 02:47 PM
I see lot of posts about the cavs old teams and the heat. Let's talk about right now. Right now you take lebron off the heat cavs are a better team I'm not sure that can even be debated after what we just saw from wade and bosh in the finals. wade is on the back 9 and just pulled out his putter, bosh has become a 3pt shooter who can't defend or rebound. Its all lebron and he even said this has been the toughest season he's ever been threw.

Now you look at the cavs. People need to stop bashing the city, I mean grow up already. Every major city has nice areas and crap hole areas Cleveland is the same. As for the team-

1. Cap space. Their young talent are still on rookie contracts so cavs currently have the cap space to sign not only lebron but another star if they could.

2. #1 pick. They have options here, keep the pick and build with that player or trade it for a proven star.

3. Young talent and depth. Irving, waiters, Thompson, #1 pick, Bennett, AV, Zeller, hawes, jack, miles, whoever they sign with cap etc...

Heat cannot offer any of that.

Not trying to poke fun, but Cleveland does really blow. Like Noah said, who goes to Cleveland?

People who live there? Lol, also other parts of Ohio. We are ranked #1 in Nicest suburbs for a reason. Also cleveland isn't a vacation spot dude, nobody ever said that. Its a working city. You can take what you said and apply it to amost any city that's not on a beach lol.

I'm pretty sure Cleveland is one of the last cities people talk about relocating to. It's not in a big market, the weather sucks, there isn't much to do there, it's in ohio. Not much else needs to be said

Doctors and sick people would completely disagree with u. They have one of the best hospitals in the world. And I'd bet you never been to Ohio to its cool. Take cheap shots at a city if that helps you feel like a tough guy.

Tony_Starks
06-23-2014, 02:49 PM
I predicted 4 titles in 5 years. You do realize that LeBron and Wade were both top 5 players at the time? And Bosh was top 20? When those types teams form, it is theirs for the taking. The way Wade is playing and their inability to re-tool makes it questionable if Miami is the best place for him to win the most titles. At the end of the day, I think he stays. He's tied himself there. However, there is a reason why Cleveland rumors haven't completely disappeared. A part of him probably wants that homecoming and with Kyrie Irving (22) and Kevin Love (25) both in Cleveland that would create another 5-7 year window where he could win titles. Plus they both fit him perfectly as talented scorers who can shoot from anywhere on the floor and are deadly on the perimeter.


Well I think Kyrie is on his way out of Cleveland and I can't see Lebron even considering going there until Dan Gilbert goes on a public apology tour.

That being said when all the smoke clears I think Lebron will have no problem staying. When you look at the big picture taking trips to the Finals every year, playing with your boy in South Beach with Riley running the show is just too great of a situation to walk away from.

Miami has made improvements to the roster every year, I see no reason to think they won't do it again.

DaBear
06-23-2014, 02:55 PM
I see lot of posts about the cavs old teams and the heat. Let's talk about right now. Right now you take lebron off the heat cavs are a better team I'm not sure that can even be debated after what we just saw from wade and bosh in the finals. wade is on the back 9 and just pulled out his putter, bosh has become a 3pt shooter who can't defend or rebound. Its all lebron and he even said this has been the toughest season he's ever been threw.

Now you look at the cavs. People need to stop bashing the city, I mean grow up already. Every major city has nice areas and crap hole areas Cleveland is the same. As for the team-

1. Cap space. Their young talent are still on rookie contracts so cavs currently have the cap space to sign not only lebron but another star if they could.

2. #1 pick. They have options here, keep the pick and build with that player or trade it for a proven star.

3. Young talent and depth. Irving, waiters, Thompson, #1 pick, Bennett, AV, Zeller, hawes, jack, miles, whoever they sign with cap etc...

Heat cannot offer any of that.

Not trying to poke fun, but Cleveland does really blow. Like Noah said, who goes to Cleveland?

People who live there? Lol, also other parts of Ohio. We are ranked #1 in Nicest suburbs for a reason. Also cleveland isn't a vacation spot dude, nobody ever said that. Its a working city. You can take what you said and apply it to amost any city that's not on a beach lol.

I'm pretty sure Cleveland is one of the last cities people talk about relocating to. It's not in a big market, the weather sucks, there isn't much to do there, it's in ohio. Not much else needs to be said

Doctors and sick people would completely disagree with u. They have one of the best hospitals in the world. And I'd bet you never been to Ohio to its cool. Take cheap shots at a city if that helps you feel like a tough guy.

Doctors and good hospitals make up for everything I said about Cleveland? Like I said, there is a reason why it's not an enticing destination. And let's not act like Cleveland is a safe place either

IKnowHoops
06-23-2014, 02:57 PM
I'm so tired of this Lebron needs more help nonsense. It doesn't matter how many allstar teams you construct around him, nobody is going to win every year. There's a reason only a few teams in history have 3 peated.

People act like they actually believed the "not 1, not 2, not 3......" jargon. Did you guys really expect them to win like 6 straight titles or something?

Well the Bulls basically did. I think the big diff is the coaching. They have gone 4 straight times, and probably can go 3 more straight times. Id feel confident in them being 4-0 if Pop was there head coach instead of Spoelstra. Larry Brown, Phil jackson too probably

Tony_Starks
06-23-2014, 03:06 PM
Well the Bulls basically did. I think the big diff is the coaching. They have gone 4 straight times, and probably can go 3 more straight times. Id feel confident in them being 4-0 if Pop was there head coach instead of Spoelstra. Larry Brown, Phil jackson too probably

Even Phil couldn't get Kobe and Shaq to four straight finals, the greatest 1-2 punch ever. Pop has never got a back to back.

I think Spo deserves a lot more credit than most people give him, he's done a helluva job considering his main 3 stars don't really naturally fit together.

IKnowHoops
06-23-2014, 03:13 PM
Even Phil couldn't get Kobe and Shaq to four straight finals, the greatest 1-2 punch ever. Pop has never got a back to back.

I think Spo deserves a lot more credit than most people give him, he's done a helluva job considering his main 3 stars don't really naturally fit together.

If Kobe and Shaq would of been best friends on the court, Im sure they would of been. Or if Kobe just wasn't so selfish on the court. Kobe kinda hurt the lakers during that time.

KnicksorBust
06-23-2014, 03:24 PM
Well the Bulls basically did. I think the big diff is the coaching. They have gone 4 straight times, and probably can go 3 more straight times. Id feel confident in them being 4-0 if Pop was there head coach instead of Spoelstra. Larry Brown, Phil jackson too probably

Even Phil couldn't get Kobe and Shaq to four straight finals, the greatest 1-2 punch ever. Pop has never got a back to back.

I think Spo deserves a lot more credit than most people give him, he's done a helluva job considering his main 3 stars don't really naturally fit together.

Kareem and Magic say hi... :)

Tony_Starks
06-23-2014, 03:31 PM
Kareem and Magic say hi... :)

Kareem and Magic never swept the entire western playoffs. Or had a game in which they both scored 40 plus at the same damn time. Or won 3 straight.......etc.

beliges
06-23-2014, 03:41 PM
By the time the Finals rolled around, they were under dogs and had displayed a lower level of play all year. The only reason the team was given any chance was because of the Bron effect, that and people assumed Wade was revving up for his best performance of the year, it is what they saved him for all year.


Any team he joins would be among the favorites, you've ignored that point twice now. The Heat aren't as talented as you pretend they are. They were probably the 4/5th best team in the league last year, which is fine, but there are other improving teams in the East that suddenly find the conference wide open with a depleted EC Champ.

By the time the Finals rolled around Miami was the favorites. To further evidence that, Vegas already has them as the favorites next season as well. So enough. The Spurs just man handled them on the biggest of all stages. This Miami team, since the inception of the big 3, will forever be known as one of the most talented teams ever assembled. No matter how you want to downplay their talent.

koreancabbage
06-23-2014, 05:06 PM
he's playing with the Lakers. I wonder how 'Lakers' fan (aka Kobe fans) would feel lol.

chitown85
06-23-2014, 05:27 PM
he's playing with the Lakers. I wonder how 'Lakers' fan (aka Kobe fans) would feel lol.

They would love it and so would Kobe (maybe not Kobe 5 years ago; but for sure Kobe now).

Miami.

prodigy
06-23-2014, 05:33 PM
I see lot of posts about the cavs old teams and the heat. Let's talk about right now. Right now you take lebron off the heat cavs are a better team I'm not sure that can even be debated after what we just saw from wade and bosh in the finals. wade is on the back 9 and just pulled out his putter, bosh has become a 3pt shooter who can't defend or rebound. Its all lebron and he even said this has been the toughest season he's ever been threw.

Now you look at the cavs. People need to stop bashing the city, I mean grow up already. Every major city has nice areas and crap hole areas Cleveland is the same. As for the team-

1. Cap space. Their young talent are still on rookie contracts so cavs currently have the cap space to sign not only lebron but another star if they could.

2. #1 pick. They have options here, keep the pick and build with that player or trade it for a proven star.

3. Young talent and depth. Irving, waiters, Thompson, #1 pick, Bennett, AV, Zeller, hawes, jack, miles, whoever they sign with cap etc...

Heat cannot offer any of that.

Not trying to poke fun, but Cleveland does really blow. Like Noah said, who goes to Cleveland?

People who live there? Lol, also other parts of Ohio. We are ranked #1 in Nicest suburbs for a reason. Also cleveland isn't a vacation spot dude, nobody ever said that. Its a working city. You can take what you said and apply it to amost any city that's not on a beach lol.

I'm pretty sure Cleveland is one of the last cities people talk about relocating to. It's not in a big market, the weather sucks, there isn't much to do there, it's in ohio. Not much else needs to be said

Doctors and sick people would completely disagree with u. They have one of the best hospitals in the world. And I'd bet you never been to Ohio to its cool. Take cheap shots at a city if that helps you feel like a tough guy.

Doctors and good hospitals make up for everything I said about Cleveland? Like I said, there is a reason why it's not an enticing destination. And let's not act like Cleveland is a safe place either

Haha now your just stupid. Name one major city that's perfectly safe, I'll wait. U think Miami is? No LA right? Hahahha. I feel much safer in Cleveland then I did in chi-town. Haters gonna hate, get over yourself. Btw- the places around the stadiums are very nice and safe. If you wonder off a few miles away then you end up in trouble lol. Like any city

prodigy
06-23-2014, 05:42 PM
I predicted 4 titles in 5 years. You do realize that LeBron and Wade were both top 5 players at the time? And Bosh was top 20? When those types teams form, it is theirs for the taking. The way Wade is playing and their inability to re-tool makes it questionable if Miami is the best place for him to win the most titles. At the end of the day, I think he stays. He's tied himself there. However, there is a reason why Cleveland rumors haven't completely disappeared. A part of him probably wants that homecoming and with Kyrie Irving (22) and Kevin Love (25) both in Cleveland that would create another 5-7 year window where he could win titles. Plus they both fit him perfectly as talented scorers who can shoot from anywhere on the floor and are deadly on the perimeter.


Well I think Kyrie is on his way out of Cleveland and I can't see Lebron even considering going there until Dan Gilbert goes on a public apology tour.

That being said when all the smoke clears I think Lebron will have no problem staying. When you look at the big picture taking trips to the Finals every year, playing with your boy in South Beach with Riley running the show is just too great of a situation to walk away from.

Miami has made improvements to the roster every year, I see no reason to think they won't do it again.

What was their improvement the last off season? They got no money man. Unless they all take big pay cuts that's not gonna change. I could see the heat convincing him to stay 1 more year, but unless they do something big i dont think they have any chance to win another ship. Just not a good team, if wade is not giving you 20+ a night and healthy there's no reason for him to stay. I mean drew gooden and boobie Gibson avged more points in the finals then wade and bosh lol

IKnowHoops
06-23-2014, 06:07 PM
By the time the Finals rolled around Miami was the favorites. To further evidence that, Vegas already has them as the favorites next season as well. So enough. The Spurs just man handled them on the biggest of all stages. This Miami team, since the inception of the big 3, will forever be known as one of the most talented teams ever assembled. No matter how you want to downplay their talent.


The point is SanAntonio ended up being more talented and better coached. It was beyond obvious as 1-10 was outplaying the number 2 guy on the Heat every single night. Who cares if Miami was the favorites and then it was proved that the Spurs should of been the favorites and were more talented. Lets go by what is and not by what was thought. The burden of proof is in the result not the prediction.

IKnowHoops
06-23-2014, 06:09 PM
What was their improvement the last off season? They got no money man. Unless they all take big pay cuts that's not gonna change. I could see the heat convincing him to stay 1 more year, but unless they do something big i dont think they have any chance to win another ship. Just not a good team, if wade is not giving you 20+ a night and healthy there's no reason for him to stay. I mean drew gooden and boobie Gibson avged more points in the finals then wade and bosh lol

But the Heat are so stacked this year.

Hawkamania
06-23-2014, 06:20 PM
It will almost certainly be Miami.

jerellh528
06-23-2014, 06:43 PM
They would love it and so would Kobe (maybe not Kobe 5 years ago; but for sure Kobe now).

Miami.

I would hate it, good thing it's not happening anyways.

beliges
06-23-2014, 06:47 PM
The point is SanAntonio ended up being more talented and better coached. It was beyond obvious as 1-10 was outplaying the number 2 guy on the Heat every single night. Who cares if Miami was the favorites and then it was proved that the Spurs should of been the favorites and were more talented. Lets go by what is and not by what was thought. The burden of proof is in the result not the prediction.

The point is the Heat underachieved while the Spurs played their best against Lebron and the Heat. The Heat had no answer for the Spurs and not even Lebron made it a competitive series.

I think the main point of this entire thread is that Lebron cannot just jump ship again and go to another team, especially considering the Heat are already once again the favorites to win it all next season too.

chitown85
06-23-2014, 06:59 PM
See
I would hate it, good thing it's not happening anyways.

Really? You would "HATE" to have Lebron James on your team? One of the best players in the game (most likely the best player in the game). It won't happen, but if it did happen? I don't believe you would "HATE" it.

chitown85
06-23-2014, 07:03 PM
I sure as hell wouldn't "HATE" if he joined the Bulls, which also isn't happening. He automatically makes any team instantly much better...not debatable.

prodigy
06-23-2014, 07:15 PM
The point is SanAntonio ended up being more talented and better coached. It was beyond obvious as 1-10 was outplaying the number 2 guy on the Heat every single night. Who cares if Miami was the favorites and then it was proved that the Spurs should of been the favorites and were more talented. Lets go by what is and not by what was thought. The burden of proof is in the result not the prediction.

The point is the Heat underachieved while the Spurs played their best against Lebron and the Heat. The Heat had no answer for the Spurs and not even Lebron made it a competitive series.

I think the main point of this entire thread is that Lebron cannot just jump ship again and go to another team, especially considering the Heat are already once again the favorites to win it all next season too.

Out come will be the same. Unless the heat can make real upgrades and not just sign washed up players to the vets mim. Wade is just not good enough anymore.

Tony_Starks
06-23-2014, 07:56 PM
If Lebron is indeed the "best player on the planet" then minimal upgrades to the supporting cast should be sufficient to continue contending.

RateSports
06-23-2014, 08:11 PM
If Lebron is indeed the "best player on the planet" then minimal upgrades to the supporting cast should be sufficient to continue contending.

So are you honestly saying that he isn't?

I love when people say "well if he is so great, he should be able to do X".

Dude is a human lol, not a super hero.

Yeah he is the best basketball player in the world, that doesn't all of a sudden make Dwyane Wade a superstar again, or give Bosh his Jurassic Park powers back, or stop all of the Spurs 3-pointers, or prevent Leonard from blossoming, or affect Coach Pop, or help Spoelstra's gameplan, or not make him cramp, etc.

These generalized statements are literally ********.

prodigy
06-23-2014, 10:14 PM
If Lebron is indeed the "best player on the planet" then minimal upgrades to the supporting cast should be sufficient to continue contending.

Lebron will always contend. But you need a team to win ship, not one guy doing everything.

Tony_Starks
06-23-2014, 10:52 PM
Lebron will always contend. But you need a team to win ship, not one guy doing everything.

Last I checked he's been playing with allstars, 3 point shooting champs, and future HOF'ers for the last 4 years. I think he'll be ok.....

Chrisclover
06-23-2014, 11:09 PM
They also still have a home in Akron

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

Rich people buy as many houses in different places as what we do in Grand Theft Auto.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-23-2014, 11:18 PM
Lebron will always contend. But you need a team to win ship, not one guy doing everything.

Last I checked he's been playing with allstars, 3 point shooting champs, and future HOF'ers for the last 4 years. I think he'll be ok.....

Lol seriously

jerellh528
06-23-2014, 11:18 PM
I sure as hell wouldn't "HATE" if he joined the Bulls, which also isn't happening. He automatically makes any team instantly much better...not debatable.

Yes, I would hate it. It's like the joker joining forces with batman. I can't root for the guy. He's been in the league goin on 12 years and has 2 rings. In large part because he teamed up with a couple all stars and created a super team. There are other ways to win rings besides Lebron. I don't want him, I'd rather get kd in 2016 who will be younger too. Both equally have a slim to none chance of happening anyways.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-23-2014, 11:20 PM
By the time the Finals rolled around, they were under dogs and had displayed a lower level of play all year. The only reason the team was given any chance was because of the Bron effect, that and people assumed Wade was revving up for his best performance of the year, it is what they saved him for all year.


Any team he joins would be among the favorites, you've ignored that point twice now. The Heat aren't as talented as you pretend they are. They were probably the 4/5th best team in the league last year, which is fine, but there are other improving teams in the East that suddenly find the conference wide open with a depleted EC Champ.

By the time the Finals rolled around Miami was the favorites. To further evidence that, Vegas already has them as the favorites next season as well. So enough. The Spurs just man handled them on the biggest of all stages. This Miami team, since the inception of the big 3, will forever be known as one of the most talented teams ever assembled. No matter how you want to downplay their talent.

They won't stop apologizing for Lebron, it's the same thing when the lakers won back to back while the Cavs were the favorites. Lebron always loses while the favorite.

Asik's better
06-23-2014, 11:39 PM
Last I checked he's been playing with allstars, 3 point shooting champs, and future HOF'ers for the last 4 years. I think he'll be ok.....


Lol seriously
There is a difference between good on paper and good on court. Something that seems to escape you two.

ILLUSIONIST^248
06-23-2014, 11:45 PM
Last I checked he's been playing with allstars, 3 point shooting champs, and future HOF'ers for the last 4 years. I think he'll be ok.....


Lol seriously
There is a difference between good on paper and good on court. Something that seems to escape you two.

Lebron got beat up on by three old dudes and a second year player, get over it. Lebron has had all the help in the world for the last four years.

bucketss
06-24-2014, 12:12 AM
lebron one of the greatest player of all time (at least top 5) when its all said and done. this dude can literally make contenders out of any team in the league. BUT its shocking to see hes approaching 30 now!!!, and as we know this might one of his last shots at big money, imo he will start declining at around 34, so lebron go out there pal and get all you can. if im lebron i would be offended at deals guys like kobe got, when hes not only greater as a player but more marketable than kobe ever was.

i predict he will resign with miami since they can offer the most.

Tony_Starks
06-24-2014, 12:25 AM
There is a difference between good on paper and good on court. Something that seems to escape you two.

If you seriously think you can make 4 straight Finals by being a one man show and merely "good on paper" I'm really not sure what to tell you. The Heat have a great team dude get over it.....