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View Full Version : Kevin Durant Believes Kawhi Leonard Is Product of Spurs System



Xplicit
06-16-2014, 11:15 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2098643-kevin-durant-believes-kawhi-leonard-is-product-of-spurs-system?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national


It makes sense

Raps18-19 Champ
06-16-2014, 11:22 PM
Yes and no.

I think Kawhi could've developed into a great player on another team, but his development was enhanced playing on the Spurs.

bucketss
06-16-2014, 11:29 PM
i think hes mad kwahi shut him down.

WITZ
06-16-2014, 11:30 PM
I for one am real curious what type of player he will become once Parker,Timmy & Ginobli have retired. Whether he can shoulder being the main man or like KD says he is a product of the spurs.

SPURSFAN1
06-16-2014, 11:39 PM
KD is very salty. Trying to rain down on the parade while KL wins a FMVP and ring.

sens#11fan
06-16-2014, 11:39 PM
Kawhi is a great player, but i still thin Paul George has a greater upside.

Wade n Fade
06-16-2014, 11:40 PM
Well, if he is, that system made him into one important corner stone. I saw him as a two way player who can get you about 16-18 a game if he was a huge factor in an offense. He learned well under Pops, Duncan, etc. SDSU turned out one good alumni. I wonder if Thames can be good in the NBA? I like KJ McDaniels to Kwhai Leonard.

jerellh528
06-16-2014, 11:43 PM
He might be right. Takes nothing away from kawhi but I would take George in the spurs system over kawhi also.

Hawkeye15
06-16-2014, 11:45 PM
the Spurs are the best NBA team at developing talent. I see no reason to believe that each and every player since Pops/Buford took over would be as good or better under any scenario.

They could turn Hellen Keller into an elite corner 3 shooter.

THE MTL
06-16-2014, 11:50 PM
I think this is obvious. The Spurs have a fantastic system. Everyone of their players are products of the system.

pacofunk64
06-16-2014, 11:51 PM
yep he sure is and he excelled in it. I think we all know that he's not the type of player to be the #1 option. He reminds me a lot of Scottie Pippen.

Jarvo
06-16-2014, 11:52 PM
KD came off salty reason why he deleted the tweets

Mr.Nate30
06-16-2014, 11:55 PM
KD may finally dethrone Blitz from my sig and hes been there for 2 years :laugh2:

FlashBolt
06-17-2014, 12:08 AM
KD is 100% right. Could you imagine Leonard having to do what Durant, George, Bron, and other superstars have to do? Leonard's team is stacked and it appears so because of the system that benefits all of them. I can only imagine what would happen if Durant and Bron would be able to accomplish in the Spurs.

SPURSFAN1
06-17-2014, 12:27 AM
KD is 100% right. Could you imagine Leonard having to do what Durant, George, Bron, and other superstars have to do? Leonard's team is stacked and it appears so because of the system that benefits all of them. I can only imagine what would happen if Durant and Bron would be able to accomplish in the Spurs.

Are you stupid? because we were great with richard jefferson? I guess the system just failed him, but it makes Kawhi look like a superstar. Why do you think he deleted it?

0nekhmer
06-17-2014, 12:29 AM
He's right. Leonard at this point would be at the skill level of lance Stephenson, trevor ariza, and on the path to a iguadoala career. So borderline all star and a good two way player is what he'd be outside this system

JEDean89
06-17-2014, 12:33 AM
obviously kawhi wouldn't be the finals mvp if he were on a worse team but the fact that he was the best player on the winning team in the finals means that he's at least a very good player. now pop himself said that he didn't run plays for Kawhi so the Spurs movement definitely helps him but if Durant is basically saying that all other systems suck (even the one he plays in) if he thinks you get finals mvp only because of the system.

force_within
06-17-2014, 12:48 AM
How about MJ, Pippen and Kobe? aren't they product of Bulls/Phil system?

Iron24th
06-17-2014, 12:50 AM
very stupid move by KD, I would have not expect that from him.

Hotone1401
06-17-2014, 02:31 AM
i think hes mad kwahi shut him down.

This.

Corey
06-17-2014, 02:34 AM
I'm in love with Leonard but he wouldn't be as effective as a distinct #1 option like George, Durant, Lebron, etc.

Leonard is a great catch and shoot player, he's developing off the dribble, and he gets his fair share of putbacks and easy scores off cuts. He hasn't shown to be an effective isolation player on a consistent basis.

Kawhi shot great percentages this year, but he was third on the team in attempts (9.8 per game) (Manu was a CLOSE fourth) and got a lot of open looks because of supporting cast.

George, for example, is expected to shoot upwards of 15-20 per game and carry the burden on offense. Kawhi hasn't done that, or had the opportunity to I guess...

Joshtd1
06-17-2014, 02:39 AM
The few times Kawhi has actually gotten a chance to show what he has without the big 3 playing, he's actually played very well. Want to say he's dropped 20+ points every game except maybe 1. He doesn't need to be the main guy, but he has all the tools.

Great post up, good catch and shoot. If he develops his ball handling a bit more he will be deadly. He is already solid off the pick and roll. He won't put up #'s like LBJ or Durant, but I could definitely see him putting up 20-22 on good %'s as the man while still locking down on D.

IversonIsKrazy
06-17-2014, 02:41 AM
He's jelous of the FMVP and ring honestly. Did Kawhi benefit being a Spur, definently. But hes a player who can shoot, rebound, defend, post, drive. He has the tools of something special, I mean when is the last time you heard Pop talk so highly of a player as he does with LeonarD?

Hotone1401
06-17-2014, 02:44 AM
I'm in love with Leonard but he wouldn't be as effective as a distinct #1 option like George, Durant, Lebron, etc.

Leonard is a great catch and shoot player, he's developing off the dribble, and he gets his fair share of putbacks and easy scores off cuts. He hasn't shown to be an effective isolation player on a consistent basis.

Kawhi shot great percentages this year, but he was third on the team in attempts (9.8 per game) (Manu was a CLOSE fourth) and got a lot of open looks because of supporting cast.

George, for example, is expected to shoot upwards of 15-20 per game and carry the burden on offense. Kawhi hasn't done that, or had the opportunity to I guess...

Funny thing is that George isn't even the #1 option this past year, Lance was if you watched the playoffs.

Kawhi without a doubt has proven himself to be one of the best two-way players in the game today. That's something KD isn't and he is just jealous.

Corey
06-17-2014, 02:48 AM
How does that make KD jealous? He said he would take George over Kawhi...

FlashBolt
06-17-2014, 02:53 AM
Are you stupid? because we were great with richard jefferson? I guess the system just failed him, but it makes Kawhi look like a superstar. Why do you think he deleted it?

What? Clearly Leonard was better than Richard but Kawhi receives plenty of help from IDK, Duncan, Parker, Gino, Green, and a bunch of players that are ready to play at any given moment. Kawhi is a top 20 player but he's probably the weakest FMVP since Billups. Not saying he's not good.. Don't get it twisted. I hate when Spurs fan get over-emotional. Anyone with some sense can tell the difference between Durant and Kawhi.

IKnowHoops
06-17-2014, 02:59 AM
Leonard is good but not quite as good as Paul George. The difference is he is receiving his tutelage from master Yoda(POP) Mace Windu(Tim) Obi won Ginobli, and Luke Skywalker(Parker) and Paul George is being raised by a pack of Orks.

Hotone1401
06-17-2014, 03:04 AM
What? Clearly Leonard was better than Richard but Kawhi receives plenty of help from IDK, Duncan, Parker, Gino, Green, and a bunch of players that are ready to play at any given moment. Kawhi is a top 20 player but he's probably the weakest FMVP since Billups. Not saying he's not good.. Don't get it twisted. I hate when Spurs fan get over-emotional. Anyone with some sense can tell the difference between Durant and Kawhi.

Kawhi would lock up Paul George.

FlashBolt
06-17-2014, 03:07 AM
If you guys don't see that system plays a huge part in a player's success, you guys are blind. No one is denying that Kawhi is good but exchange his role with Durant at OKC and put Durant in the Spurs.. Good luck beating the Spurs, Kawhi. Kawhi is an easy 20/8/5 player in the NBA but no way he comes close to the Finals without that Spurs squad.

PacersForLife
06-17-2014, 03:09 AM
Funny thing is that George isn't even the #1 option this past year, Lance was if you watched the playoffs.

Sorry, but this is false.

CityofChaos
06-17-2014, 03:19 AM
Richard Jefferson begs to differ.

WadeKobe
06-17-2014, 03:49 AM
Lol. George over Leaonard. You're funny KD.

PurpleLynch
06-17-2014, 04:18 AM
Instead of worrying for Leonard,KD should get Brooks fired. Leonard's performances are enhanced by Spurs system obviously,but he's just 22. And he already has a range of skills amazing. He can rebound,getting assists,very good shooter and underrated athlete. Excellent bball IQ for his age. He's a hard worker and he has consistency in his performance. George seems a little too much weak in his mind and act still like a child.

torocan
06-17-2014, 05:47 AM
We also shouldn't forget that Kawhi is only 22 years old vs PG being 24.

Kawhi didn't have a jump shot when he joined the Spurs. He does now. A big part of that was coaching as well as his willingness to work and improve.

The Spurs system is phenomenal for developing talent. It still requires someone who WANTS to develop their talent. No matter how good the Spurs system is, you can't force someone to want it. It's why the Spurs look for character, then Talent and fit.

A better comparison would be PG at 22 vs KL today. PG wasn't the player 2 years ago that he is today. And KL will be a much better player in 2 years than he is today because he's willing to learn from the coaches and put in the work.

Now whether he ends up better than PG in the end? No idea.

arlubas
06-17-2014, 05:57 AM
So let me get this straight: to everyone saying KD is just hating, do you think Kawhi would've produced the same numbers if all of the Heat's defensive plans weren't based on stopping TD, Parker & Manu but focused on stopping him? Cause it sounds pretty bogus to my ears.

The kid might have upside and could very well turn into an All-Star sooner than later but right now he is not that player but instead an athletic talented young guy that benefited playing along side one of the best trios and teams in NBA history.

SeoulBeatz
06-17-2014, 06:06 AM
He's right. Leonard at this point would be at the skill level of lance Stephenson, trevor ariza, and on the path to a iguadoala career. So borderline all star and a good two way player is what he'd be outside this system

Yeah, I could see him as an Iguodala type outside of the Spurs system.

KD is absoultely right (though he didn't have to put Kawhi on blast on twitter), Kawhi wouldn't look nearly as good as a #1 option on a mediocre team, because that's not who he is.

He is the ultimate fit for the Spurs system at the SF position, but he is not and will never be a #1 option.

rocketfuel
06-17-2014, 06:36 AM
i think hes mad kwahi shut him down.

This.


Kawhi has the thankless job of having to check the other team's best perimeter threat every series, while sacrificing his own game. He finally got the greenlight to just let it all hang out and we saw the results. He looks like he has more upside than Paul George, actually. We saw both series and Kawhi was way more disruptive.

BALLER R
06-17-2014, 08:02 AM
I swear I read somewhere that Pop literally has to pull Kawhi off the court. Think it was their assistant coach that said it. The guys a gym rat. With that work ethic there's no reason to think it's only the spurs system. Everyone remember the one knock on him coming in the league was that he couldn't shoot.

Also Pop said they never ran a single play for Kawhi in the finals. That's probably the most impressive part if that's true.

BALLER R
06-17-2014, 08:06 AM
Durant could say what he wants but realize Kawhi got a ring and he has plenty upside and he's just turning 23. Those two finals appearance are probably going to be a bigger reason for him becoming a good player.

BALLER R
06-17-2014, 08:11 AM
If you guys don't see that system plays a huge part in a player's success, you guys are blind. No one is denying that Kawhi is good but exchange his role with Durant at OKC and put Durant in the Spurs.. Good luck beating the Spurs, Kawhi. Kawhi is an easy 20/8/5 player in the NBA but no way he comes close to the Finals without that Spurs squad.

Your right, but the way Durant worded it I don't think he's saying this. He seems like he's saying Kawhi isn't that good and it's all the Spurs system.

NYKnickFanatic
06-17-2014, 08:19 AM
KD, you mad or nah?

SanAntonioSpurs23
06-17-2014, 08:29 AM
Salty *** beta *****. Man up KD

beasted86
06-17-2014, 08:30 AM
For whatever reason system players get a bad rap on PSD. Being a great system player doesn't mean you aren't still good.

I think Deron Williams was a system player in Utah and played that system at an elite level. Nash was a system player in Phoenix, and played it at a back to back MVP levels. I definitely feel that Tony Parker and Kawhi Leonard are both system players, but that doesn't take anything away from how great they have performed.

rocketfuel
06-17-2014, 08:39 AM
Kawhi went up against probably the best player in the world and shined....so that tells you a lot right there. Even Paul George didn't do as well. Put almost any other player in front of Lebron, Lebron probably would have killed him. I thought Pop was just hyping him up at the start of the season, but I guess he wasn't kidding...he'd know since he's seen the kid play day in and ay out.

BALLER R
06-17-2014, 08:44 AM
Kawhi went up against probably the best player in the world and shined....so that tells you a lot right there. Even Paul George didn't do as well. Put almost any other player in front of Lebron, Lebron probably would have killed him. I thought Pop was just hyping him up at the start of the season, but I guess he wasn't kidding...he'd know since he's seen the kid play day in and ay out.

Kawhi Had to guard Durant then Lebron in back to back series. Pop always has good things to say about him. Pop's not known for doing that. I think him and Leonard probably have a special relationship kinda like him and Duncan but not at that level yet. You can just tell Pop loves that kid.

Miltstar
06-17-2014, 09:42 AM
I dunno he's pretty good on my NBA 2K14 team playing with B.Jennings and B.Beal

SlimKid
06-17-2014, 10:10 AM
If LeBron said this, PSD would implode.

ink
06-17-2014, 10:22 AM
I think this is obvious. The Spurs have a fantastic system. Everyone of their players are products of the system.

I agree except for Duncan but don't want to throw the thread OT by mentioning it. Leonard is certainly a product of the Spurs system as are TP and Manu. Diaw, of course, was pretty awesome already with the Suns, he's just gotten even better.

KnickaBocka.44
06-17-2014, 11:41 AM
KD is salty. End of story. Kawhi's numbers aren't crazy enough for him to be saying he excels because of the system. How about "The system helps everyone who buys into it excel"? Because then he's talking about his elders in the game and he can't talk trash about guys like Tony, Manu and Timmy who have the jewelry KD wants, so he will just talk about a guy people think he's better than.

Randy West
06-17-2014, 11:41 AM
If this were the case wouldn't system trump superstar or superstars every finals??

Spurs played basketball this series against the Heat like they were out of their minds for the most part. Flawless basketball as a team had a whole lot to do with this finals win.

Kawhai is tasked with defending some of the better players in the league and is doing a pretty good job of it

Tony_Starks
06-17-2014, 11:51 AM
KD, real recognizes real and homey you lookin unfamiliar right now!.......

MrfadeawayJB
06-17-2014, 11:53 AM
Kd must be mad that he doesn't play in a system but instead plays playground rules. "He who brings the ball into the frontcourt shall shoot the shot". I think subliminally kd is attacking not kawhi, but brooks. Also, what did Leonard ever do to deserve this? He's the quietest kid I've ever seen and is humble from all accounts.

D-Leethal
06-17-2014, 12:48 PM
Kawai showed me way more game off the dribble and as a ball handler than I gave him credit for when it comes to be a triple threat and an all star but I agree with KD. Guys who face doubles and the teams best defender for 48 minutes do not have the same luxuries Kawai is afforded playing off the best pick and roll tandem in the league and the best passing team in the league. Paul George could shoot 60% for a playoff series too in that role.

bucketss
06-17-2014, 12:52 PM
hes salty, doesn't make him wrong though.

slashsnake
06-17-2014, 01:09 PM
The position he is in absolutely has affected the player he has become. I think had he been drafted elsewhere he'd be an ok player but not what he's become. Having that coaching and that team around him has greatly helped his ability to grow as a player. Same can be said about Diaw's resurgence. I don't think he has that kind of return if he is on the Cavs for instance.

AIRMAR72
06-17-2014, 01:13 PM
i think hes mad kwahi shut him down. correct!!

ink
06-17-2014, 01:15 PM
KD is right. Leonard isn't an MVP the way people here think of stars. He's a very good part of the Spurs system.

Clippersfan86
06-17-2014, 01:23 PM
People don't seem to understand the other side of this. Kawhi gets far less opportunity on the Spurs too. As Pop said... He calls ZERO plays for Kawhi and he still manages great production. Let's see chucker PG be as efficient with no touches. I said it the last couple years... I'd take Kawhi over Paul.

No telling if Kawhi would already be a 20+ ppg player like George if he was the man on a team as well.

Clippersfan86
06-17-2014, 01:28 PM
How many greats has Pop witnessed or coached? If he says Kawhi has the drive to be the best matching anyone he's ever been around, I believe him. Unlike George, Leonard does whatever the team needs without a complaint. I will be anyone that as this transitions to his team... He becomes a 20+ ppg player and superstar.

slashsnake
06-17-2014, 01:36 PM
People don't seem to understand the other side of this. Kawhi gets far less opportunity on the Spurs too. As Pop said... He calls ZERO plays for Kawhi and he still manages great production. Let's see chucker PG be as efficient with no touches. I said it the last couple years... I'd take Kawhi over Paul.

No telling if Kawhi would already be a 20+ ppg player like George if he was the man on a team as well.

That is true.. Maybe he could be an Arron Afflalo type on a weak team. I don't think he is a 52% shooter on a team where he is the focal point though, or a 1 turnover a game type player. I think the big part of why he is so efficient is the same reason Bosh is now as a shooter. He isn't a focal point. He doesn't have plays drawn for him where its his job to beat the defense. He doesn't have to win his matchups consistently. When he is on, he can attack and shoot the ball more as we saw. When he isn't he can take a step back and put up 9 points and its ok for the team as he doesn't need to get his 15 shots a game for the team to still win.

Clippersfan86
06-17-2014, 02:26 PM
I'm not so sure. Good players adjust. Would he average 1 tpg? No way. Confident he would shoot better than George who's a what 41 or 42 percent shooter?

SPURSFAN1
06-17-2014, 02:57 PM
If Kawhi Leonard was on the Pacers, they would have beat the Heat in 6 games.

Jarvo
06-17-2014, 02:58 PM
KD need to worry about getting what Kawhi just got on Sunday.

ewing
06-17-2014, 03:02 PM
he is right but Leonard is very impressive. On defense and the boards he is excellent, he is a heck on an athlete, he is a quality shooter now, and he make more good plays then bad ones when he puts it on the floor despite being out of control. I think the last one is important. He finishes and turns out good results on a lot of plays where it looks like he shouldn't. I would much rather have a guy that needs to sure up his handle get learn to get his feet under him then a guy that has a handle already but bad timing and touch.

kdspurman
06-17-2014, 03:05 PM
Durant explains himself

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2098643-kevin-durant-believes-kawhi-leonard-is-product-of-spurs-system?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national2

SPURSFAN1
06-17-2014, 03:11 PM
Durant explains himself

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2098643-kevin-durant-believes-kawhi-leonard-is-product-of-spurs-system?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national2

The guy keeps sounding like a hater. It's going to be funny when KD meets the champs this coming season.

gbrl
06-17-2014, 03:21 PM
If Kawhi Leonard was on the Pacers, they would have beat the Heat in 6 games.

this has to be sarcasm.

Joshtd1
06-17-2014, 03:29 PM
So I guess the points Leonard gets off steals, offensive rebounds, transition, and cuts are all because of the system? Him being able to post up other players, and be able to hit a pull up J or attack the basket off a pick and roll is because of the system? He isn't Danny Green, Marco, or a Patty type where they are primarily there to spot up and hit 3's.

I've seen from Kawhi without the big 3 to make me think he will be a star in this league. It's not a coincidence that when we drafted him, the Spurs went from being a 1st round exit to the WCF/Finals/Champs. Kid is a stud in the making. Definitely don't think he is a product of the system

JC_
06-17-2014, 03:36 PM
If Kawhi Leonard was on the Pacers, they would have beat the Heat in 6 games.

lol No but he is a great player. Pretty dumb thing for Durant to say especially considering how bad PG played in the ECF. Either way, Durants PR person should have a talk with him.

Procision
06-17-2014, 03:55 PM
I think its pretty obvious almost any player will be a better player on the spurs. Doesn't mean hes not a good player though.

NBA_Starter
06-17-2014, 04:30 PM
KD is mad because he doesn't have one.

Mell413
06-17-2014, 04:35 PM
I'm still unsure if Kawhi is a "win because of" type of player. He seems more of a 2nd option on a title team now, but he's young enough where he can turn into something more.

FlashBolt
06-17-2014, 04:49 PM
Okay. So how many of you had Leonard on your top 10 list this season? Alright then.

Red_Pill
06-17-2014, 05:04 PM
He's right. Kawhi Lenoard is a solid player. But on any other team, he's an above average role player. Certain systems help certain guys. You put him on his own team, where he is "the man" and that team isn't going to do very much. He just isn't a Lebron/KD/CP3 type of impact player.

I watch the guy and I'm always wondering what the hype is about. He's just a guy who is in the right system for his skillset. Nothing more, nothing less.

kdspurman
06-17-2014, 05:10 PM
He's right. Kawhi Lenoard is a solid player. But on any other team, he's an above average role player. Certain systems help certain guys. You put him on his own team, where he is "the man" and that team isn't going to do very much. He just isn't a Lebron/KD/CP3 type of impact player.

I watch the guy and I'm always wondering what the hype is about. He's just a guy who is in the right system for his skillset. Nothing more, nothing less.

And that's your opinion, not a fact. There have been flashes of what he is capable of when Pop has elected to bench guys and he be the focal point. So you can have your opinion because you haven't watched the team enough to see what he can do as the main guy.

At the end of the day, Pop has said multiple times this guy can be the face of the franchise and has said the kind of work ethic he has. I take his word and his judgement 10/10 based off who he is and considering how well he knows Kawhi. You hardly ever hear him talk about anyone like that that's come to the Spurs.

jmaest
06-17-2014, 05:13 PM
Kawhi is a very good player. A star in the making I think. I don't know if KD should talk at all though. How your gonna hate on the guy that shut you down then went on to win Finals MVP--and he deserved it??

It doesn't matter if he has a point. It's just stupid for him to say it.

Red_Pill
06-17-2014, 05:19 PM
And that's your opinion, not a fact. There have been flashes of what he is capable of when Pop has elected to bench guys and he be the focal point. So you can have your opinion because you haven't watched the team enough to see what he can do as the main guy.

At the end of the day, Pop has said multiple times this guy can be the face of the franchise and has said the kind of work ethic he has. I take his word and his judgement 10/10 based off who he is and considering how well he knows Kawhi. You hardly ever hear him talk about anyone like that that's come to the Spurs.

If Pops benches players or not is irrelevant. Kawhi is still apart of the system. The system is the same no matter which players he's using to fulfill the system.

Honestly, I don't think he deserved finals MVP. It really was a collective effort from everyone, but TD seemed the most deserving to me and seemed to make more of an impact.

At any rate, it's great that he has a good work ethic. It will help him go far, but talent+hard work which is what people like Lebron, Durant, CP3, and George possess is greater than hard work alone. Kawhi is talented, but he is not nor will he ever be a top player in this league. Ever. An above average role player who plays in the perfect system for his skill set is all he ever will be.

Red_Pill
06-17-2014, 05:23 PM
Kawhi is a very good player. A star in the making I think. I don't know if KD should talk at all though. How your gonna hate on the guy that shut you down then went on to win Finals MVP--and he deserved it??

It doesn't matter if he has a point. It's just stupid for him to say it.

Parker, Diaw, or Duncan could have easily won finals MVP. It really was a collective group effort. Kawhi played well, but it really wasn't as clear cut as "he deserved it". As someone else stated, easily the weakest finals MVP since Billups in 2004, which again, was another collective team effort.

And Durant averaged over 25 a game on 46% shooting. Hardly shutting him down.

Red_Pill
06-17-2014, 05:30 PM
Yeah, I could see him as an Iguodala type outside of the Spurs system.

KD is absoultely right (though he didn't have to put Kawhi on blast on twitter), Kawhi wouldn't look nearly as good as a #1 option on a mediocre team, because that's not who he is.

He is the ultimate fit for the Spurs system at the SF position, but he is not and will never be a #1 option.

This.

kdspurman
06-17-2014, 05:36 PM
If Pops benches players or not is irrelevant. Kawhi is still apart of the system. The system is the same no matter which players he's using to fulfill the system.

Honestly, I don't think he deserved finals MVP. It really was a collective effort from everyone, but TD seemed the most deserving to me and seemed to make more of an impact.

At any rate, it's great that he has a good work ethic. It will help him go far, but talent+hard work which is what people like Lebron, Durant, CP3, and George possess is greater than hard work alone. Kawhi is talented, but he is not nor will he ever be a top player in this league. Ever. An above average role player who plays in the perfect system for his skill set is all he ever will be.

Again, you have no facts for this, it's just your opinion. Paul George was in a similar position, his development was excelled due to the injury to Granger. He sort of rushed the process, who knows if he develops as quickly as he did with Granger healthy.

Kawhi on the other hand, is in his 2nd full season (first I don't really count as it was a lockout year and he had very little prep-time) and is only 22 years old. He's improved every year and there is no reason to think he can't take his game to the next level. Spurs will not rush the process cause they don't have to. But we'll see where he is in the next 2-3 years.

His #'s now will never be high like those guys simply because that's now how this Spurs team is constructed to be successful. I'm looking forward to him proving a lot of folks wrong.

kdspurman
06-17-2014, 05:38 PM
Parker, Diaw, or Duncan could have easily won finals MVP. It really was a collective group effort. Kawhi played well, but it really wasn't as clear cut as "he deserved it". As someone else stated, easily the weakest finals MVP since Billups in 2004, which again, was another collective team effort.

And Durant averaged over 25 a game on 46% shooting. Hardly shutting him down.

Compared to his 32ppg on 50% shooting during the regular season? That's pretty damn good though. You don't shut down great offensive players per say, but if you can make them work for it? And see a dip in production from what they're used to? That's all you can ask for

Red_Pill
06-17-2014, 05:45 PM
Again, you have no facts for this, it's just your opinion. Paul George was in a similar position, his development was excelled due to the injury to Granger. He sort of rushed the process, who knows if he develops as quickly as he did with Granger healthy.

Kawhi on the other hand, is in his 2nd full season (first I don't really count as it was a lockout year and he had very little prep-time) and is only 22 years old. He's improved every year and there is no reason to think he can't take his game to the next level. Spurs will not rush the process cause they don't have to. But we'll see where he is in the next 2-3 years.

His #'s now will never be high like those guys simply because that's now how this Spurs team is constructed to be successful. I'm looking forward to him proving a lot of folks wrong.

Are you counting on him to be another Duncan? He's good, but not that good. I've watched the Spurs enough and have watched enough basketball to trust my eyes and instincts. I know he's a good player, and I know he will probably make an all-star team or two. I just think you, and a few others have this need or want for him to be something that he isn't. He doesn't have what it takes to lead a team from the start of the season to the finals.

You guys are the ultimate team. And that's awesome. It's why you guys are successful. But this guy is not going to be "the man" on this Spurs team if you guys want to maintain the championship pedigree. You will have to get a real number one option down the road.

I do wish him luck and hope he proves me wrong. But my instincts tell me he's not going to be much more than an Iggy type of player.

SPURSFAN1
06-17-2014, 05:49 PM
Next thing you know people will call Tim Duncan a role player because he plays for the spurs. hahahaahahaa

rocketfuel
06-17-2014, 05:53 PM
If anything, it's the players like Kawhi that are making Pop and his system look good. Pop was punching Kawhi because he was thrilled that his prized mentee had surpassed even what he expected in execution of his gameplan. You put Shaqtinafool players on Pop's team and he'd have a hard time looking as brilliant... Kawhi might be one of the main reasons that the Spurs are once again a powerhouse... that Hill/Leonard trade looks like one of most lopsided trades. Kawhi has actually been restrained by the system to not only guard the greatest perimeter threats every series, but play on a team with many great scorers that all believe in sharing the ball. On another team that might baby him, he'd probably have plays run for him, not always have to guard the toughest guy.

Btw, Diaw should get some kind of honorary award because it was when he was asserted into the starting lineup that he presented a challenge too great for the Heat...you just can't cover these studs on the perimeter yet have to cover bigs with that much talent like Diaw and Duncan inside.

Red_Pill
06-17-2014, 05:54 PM
Next thing you know people will call Tim Duncan a role player because he plays for the spurs. hahahaahahaa

TD was a beast from day one. But it could be argued a couple years ago he was more of a role player before his recent resurgence.

kdspurman
06-17-2014, 05:54 PM
Are you counting on him to be another Duncan? He's good, but not that good. I've watched the Spurs enough and have watched enough basketball to trust my eyes and instincts. I know he's a good player, and I know he will probably make an all-star team or two. I just think you, and a few others have this need or want for him to be something that he isn't. He doesn't have what it takes to lead a team from the start of the season to the finals.

You guys are the ultimate team. And that's awesome. It's why you guys are successful. But this guy is not going to be "the man" on this Spurs team if you guys want to maintain the championship pedigree. You will have to get a real number one option down the road.

I do wish him luck and hope he proves me wrong. But my instincts tell me he's not going to be much more than an Iggy type of player.

Not at all am I considering him another Duncan. 2 totally different players.

My point is, you are saying he will never be "the man" if that team wants to be successful. And he doesn't have what it takes. And this is all because your eye and instincts. Nothing factual at all to predict say that.

Out of curiosity (if you were watching then) how were your eyes and instincts when Parker came into the league? Did you think he would develop into the player he is today? My guess is no. Because no one really saw that coming. So while I respect your opinion, I much rather put my stock into what Pop sees into him, a guy who is obviously a basketball genius.

Red_Pill
06-17-2014, 05:55 PM
Btw, Diaw should get some kind of honorary award because it was when he was asserted into the starting lineup that he presented a challenge too great for the Heat...you just can't cover these studs on the perimeter yet have to cover bigs with that much talent like Diaw and Duncan inside.

Yeah, Diaw changed this series and the last one. He was everywhere. Did his part well, and I feel he was an important component for their victory. Maybe even moreso than Kawhi.

rocketfuel
06-17-2014, 05:56 PM
Duncan looks reborn.... I think they just sped up the tempo with all these athletes and the team now has a nice balance where they can attack you from many different angles, rather than just throw it into the block.

SPURSFAN1
06-17-2014, 05:58 PM
Yeah, Diaw changed this series and the last one. He was everywhere. Did his part well, and I feel he was an important component for their victory. Maybe even moreso than Kawhi.

More than Kawhi? OK now you just spouting bull to prove your case. hahahahaha :laugh:

Red_Pill
06-17-2014, 06:00 PM
Not at all am I considering him another Duncan. 2 totally different players.

My point is, you are saying he will never be "the man" if that team wants to be successful. And he doesn't have what it takes. And this is all because your eye and instincts. Nothing factual at all to predict say that.

Out of curiosity (if you were watching then) how were your eyes and instincts when Parker came into the league? Did you think he would develop into the player he is today? My guess is no. Because no one really saw that coming. So while I respect your opinion, I much rather put my stock into what Pop sees into him, a guy who is obviously a basketball genius.

Fair enough. Pops obviously sees something in the kid that many of us don't. And obviously Pops knows a hell of a lot more than I do. We'll just have to see how things play out.

Question for you. Do you believe he overwhelming deserved finals MVP or do you others on the team had just as good of a claim?

I mean, it makes for a great story for the NBA. A boy whose father was murdered wins finals mvp on Fathers Day. Just wondering what your take is.

SPURSFAN1
06-17-2014, 06:04 PM
Fair enough. Pops obviously sees something in the kid that many of us don't. And obviously Pops knows a hell of a lot more than I do. We'll just have to see how things play out.

Question for you. Do you believe he overwhelming deserved finals MVP or do you others on the team had just as good of a claim?

I mean, it makes for a great story for the NBA. A boy whose father was murdered wins finals mvp on Fathers Day. Just wondering what your take is.

Forget about the story lines. As a spurs fan, he deserved it and more.

Red_Pill
06-17-2014, 06:05 PM
More than Kawhi? OK now you just spouting bull to prove your case. hahahahaha :laugh:

If it wasn't for Diaw, you guys probably wouldn't have even made it to the finals. Diaw did well for you guys. You should respect what he did for your team.

As for the finals, he guarded Lebron at times, scored, assisted, rebounded...the guy was everywhere. Perhaps he didn't deserve it more than Kawhi, but he was a HUGE reason for your team success. I think Duncan did more than Kawhi, though. But it was good that Kawhi redeemed himself after last years missed free throws.

Red_Pill
06-17-2014, 06:09 PM
Forget about the story lines. As a spurs fan, he deserved it and more.

No doubt he deserved it, but I don't think he was the only one on the team who deserved it. Everyone on your team stepped up. Not trying to disparage the award, but this has to be one of the "weakest" winners we've had. I genuinely am trying to appreciate what he did, but it just doesn't seem special sense everyone else on the team played well, and a few played on the same level as him.

So, is he a Superstar now? :eyebrow:

Hawkamania
06-17-2014, 06:19 PM
the Spurs are the best NBA team at developing talent. I see no reason to believe that each and every player since Pops/Buford took over would be as good or better under any scenario.

They could turn Hellen Keller into an elite corner 3 shooter.

Lol this all the way.

sammyvine
06-17-2014, 06:23 PM
He may be right but he shouldnt be saying it really. its comes across as pure jealousy to me.

kdspurman
06-17-2014, 06:25 PM
Fair enough. Pops obviously sees something in the kid that many of us don't. And obviously Pops knows a hell of a lot more than I do. We'll just have to see how things play out.

Question for you. Do you believe he overwhelming deserved finals MVP or do you others on the team had just as good of a claim?

I mean, it makes for a great story for the NBA. A boy whose father was murdered wins finals mvp on Fathers Day. Just wondering what your take is.

Not at all do I think he was the overwhelming Finals MVP. I thought it would be Duncan personally, but I am not necessarily against it. He was just great in games 3,4 & 5.

I think Duncan winning it on Fathers Day would have been just a good a story after going through the divorce last year and what not. I thought throughout the series he was more consistent , but what Leonard did in the last 3 games on both ends was pretty special.

Red_Pill
06-17-2014, 06:28 PM
Not at all do I think he was the overwhelming Finals MVP. I thought it would be Duncan personally, but I am not necessarily against it. He was just great in games 3,4 & 5.

I think Duncan winning it on Fathers Day would have been just a good a story after going through the divorce last year and what not. I thought throughout the series he was more consistent , but what Leonard did in the last 3 games on both ends was pretty special.

I still think being good for the entire series is better than three games. I mean, he was a no show for games one and two. It's almost like that's being forgotten.

Touche. That makes for a good story as well.

jmaest
06-17-2014, 07:35 PM
Parker, Diaw, or Duncan could have easily won finals MVP. It really was a collective group effort. Kawhi played well, but it really wasn't as clear cut as "he deserved it". As someone else stated, easily the weakest finals MVP since Billups in 2004, which again, was another collective team effort.

And Durant averaged over 25 a game on 46% shooting. Hardly shutting him down.

I disagree. You're playing revisionist history. His explosion in Game 3 could arguably be what propelled SAS to such a dominating performance. He was excellent defensively as well. There's no possible case that could be made for either Duncan or Parker over Leonard. None. Diaw definitely was a game changer and a really, really tough matchup for Miami. Not sure what he did warrants "MVP" consideration but he was a game changer for sure.

Fact is 25 and 46% is 7 & 4% less than what he was getting in the regular season. Plus he had to work twice as hard for those points. That's a heckuva job by Kawhi.

ohreally
06-17-2014, 07:56 PM
KD is 100% right. Could you imagine Leonard having to do what Durant, George, Bron, and other superstars have to do? Leonard's team is stacked and it appears so because of the system that benefits all of them. I can only imagine what would happen if Durant and Bron would be able to accomplish in the Spurs.

Well, Pop is saying he can be the cornerstone of the team moving forward, so I guess Pop is a fool then.

But what don't you get? The system is a team first system, and it really doesn't matter whether any particular guy on a team could be a STAR on a team built around stars. I think the Spurs just showed, in a frankly amazing way, that a team concept can trounce a star system. Who the hell cares whether a star thinks Kawhi is on his level or not?

jmaest
06-17-2014, 08:05 PM
Well, Pop is saying he can be the cornerstone of the team moving forward, so I guess Pop is a fool then.

But what don't you get? The system is a team first system, and it really doesn't matter whether any particular guy on a team could be a STAR on a team built around stars. I think the Spurs just showed, in a frankly amazing way, that a team concept can trounce a star system. Who the hell cares whether a star thinks Kawhi is on his level or not?

I think that's the point. And maybe KD was alluding to this but it didn't come out well. Maybe Kawhi isn't better than Paul George 1on1. Maybe he is. On the Spurs it doesn't matter.

I completely disagree with the concept of changing people on a team and getting the same result, by the way. Swapping Kawhi for George, as KD said, may not have produced the same result. 2 different types of players but George didn't look nearly as good against Miami as Leonard did and Indiana has a pretty good team too. In a team concept chemistry has a little something to do with it as does personality. Leonard may just be the right fit.

Either way, an actual team will trounce star power every time, to your point.

KobeOwnSU
06-17-2014, 08:39 PM
You the real MVP, Kawhi! :clap:

blahblahyoutoo
06-17-2014, 08:46 PM
losing more and more respect for KD.

slashsnake
06-17-2014, 09:14 PM
I still think being good for the entire series is better than three games. I mean, he was a no show for games one and two. It's almost like that's being forgotten.

Touche. That makes for a good story as well.

Yeah but he was great for the three game sweep, not for the 1-1 start. It is tough, especially giving a MVP to a guy who was outplayed by his opponent in the series matchup. But I think he's a fine choice. It could have gone to Duncan, Diaw, Parker (great D on Chalmers to boot), even Ginobili. A great level team all around. Outside of Bosh and Lebron, Miami was pretty awful in that series.

Max.This
06-17-2014, 09:19 PM
when he made that clutch block on westbrook in game 6 he made me a believer in his abilities.

MagicBucsSox
06-17-2014, 09:38 PM
i think hes mad kwahi shut him down.

Lmaoooo I love how people I this k.Leonard high, are quick to say he shuts ppl down, yet they always have over 20 on him. He's a help defender , not a **** down guy like T.Allen, Artest etc

kdspurman
06-17-2014, 09:41 PM
A lot of folks have been making the Leonard-Pippen comparison.

Saw this earlier-

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10373994_867679229912891_3237215870904283568_n.jpg

MagicBucsSox
06-17-2014, 09:42 PM
Well, Pop is saying he can be the cornerstone of the team moving forward, so I guess Pop is a fool then.

But what don't you get? The system is a team first system, and it really doesn't matter whether any particular guy on a team could be a STAR on a team built around stars. I think the Spurs just showed, in a frankly amazing way, that a team concept can trounce a star system. Who the hell cares whether a star thinks Kawhi is on his level or not?
Lmaooooo so what else was Pop suppose to say?

kdspurman
06-17-2014, 09:46 PM
Lmaooooo so what else was Pop suppose to say?

He could not say it :shrug:

Pop doesn't just talk like that about anyone. He isn't the kind of guy to come out and say something like that, and perhaps put unnecessary pressure on a young player in his 2nd year.

MagicBucsSox
06-17-2014, 09:53 PM
He could not say it :shrug:

Pop doesn't just talk like that about anyone. He isn't the kind of guy to come out and say something like that, and perhaps put unnecessary pressure on a young player in his 2nd year.
Dude they've said that since he was a rookie. He's had 3consecutive good games and ppl praising him as if he carried the Spurs. The guy he guarded still score over 20 on him. It's easy guarding a guy when he has no help and you have Duncan behind you. And he's not in Paul George atmosphere

SPURSFAN1
06-17-2014, 10:05 PM
Dude they've said that since he was a rookie. He's had 3consecutive good games and ppl praising him as if he carried the Spurs. The guy he guarded still score over 20 on him. It's easy guarding a guy when he has no help and you have Duncan behind you. And he's not in Paul George atmosphere

It's always all these east coast cats that put down KL. Does anyone actually watch the games besides boxscores? Kawhi Leonard was the best player in those last 3 games.

MagicBucsSox
06-17-2014, 10:10 PM
It's always all these east coast cats that put down KL. Does anyone actually watch the games besides boxscores? Kawhi Leonard was the best player in those last 3 games.

No I'm actually from Cali(Pomona) I'm a fan of him. But homers like you, and non spurs homers overrated a guy from a spur(no pun) of good games. Damn let the kid grow. You can bash me yet not point to one thing I said as untrue. I guess Diaw is an all star too

kdspurman
06-17-2014, 10:12 PM
Dude they've said that since he was a rookie. He's had 3consecutive good games and ppl praising him as if he carried the Spurs. The guy he guarded still score over 20 on him. It's easy guarding a guy when he has no help and you have Duncan behind you. And he's not in Paul George atmosphere

Except, they didn't say that since he was a rookie. His rookie year was a lockout year, and he started the season coming off the bench. They didn't know what to expect of him when he came to the team.

& Look at Lebron's numbers quarter by quarter for some of these games. There were a few he had a bunch in the 1st, and nothing really after. You don't "lock down" super stars. You make them work on both ends and hope their numbers are not as good as they're accustomed to getting. And saying he's not in Paul George's atmosphere? Well, you're entitled to your own opinion. I don't think many will agree with you.

SPURSFAN1
06-17-2014, 10:15 PM
No I'm actually from Cali(Pomona) I'm a fan of him. But homers like you, and non spurs homers overrated a guy from a spur(no pun) of good games. Damn let the kid grow. You can bash me yet not point to one thing I said as untrue. I guess Diaw is an all star too

FMVP > ecf

deal wit it

MagicBucsSox
06-17-2014, 10:58 PM
FMVP > ecf

deal wit it

Lmao my man I'm fine with it, your the one can't handle winning. You may think you getting under my skin but I'm laughing at ppl like you. Your a fan of a team not the game. Huge difference. He had 3 good games. Great . I'm happy for the guy but he's nothing special. We'll see when Duncan Parker ginobili are gone.

MagicBucsSox
06-17-2014, 11:10 PM
Except, they didn't say that since he was a rookie. His rookie year was a lockout year, and he started the season coming off the bench. They didn't know what to expect of him when he came to the team.

& Look at Lebron's numbers quarter by quarter for some of these games. There were a few he had a bunch in the 1st, and nothing really after. You don't "lock down" super stars. You make them work on both ends and hope their numbers are not as good as they're accustomed to getting. And saying he's not in Paul George's atmosphere? Well, you're entitled to your own opinion. I don't think many will agree with you.
Lebron had 25 35 22 28 31= 28.2 , he avg 27 in the season so....... What exactly did Leonard do? Stop him from scoring 35ppg? Even if he does get 37 ppg they still lose. Just relax enjoy your championship without ruining it over exaggerating

Iggz53
06-18-2014, 01:38 AM
He's probably right, PG is more than likely the better all-around player. But Durant kind of comes off as an ******* tweeting that.

kdspurman
06-18-2014, 08:03 AM
Lebron had 25 35 22 28 31= 28.2 , he avg 27 in the season so....... What exactly did Leonard do? Stop him from scoring 35ppg? Even if he does get 37 ppg they still lose. Just relax enjoy your championship without ruining it over exaggerating

Games 1/2 he was in foul trouble. Hardly good examples, especially game 2. He went off with Diaw guarding him.

And I think it was game 3 where he had either 16 or 18 in the first quarter, and he ended up with only 22 and also 7 turnovers. Again, box scores don't tell the whole story. Especially when you factor in different guys guarding him, garbage time, etc...

I'll dig up the #'s with Leonard guarding him, maybe that'll paint a better picture for you.

BTW, I'm very relaxed. I just enjoy proving people wrong is all ;)

AddiX
06-18-2014, 10:04 AM
The fact pop says he didn't even run a play for kawhi tells you the system plays a big part.

Lets be for real here, you put kawhi in a role where he's a go to guy, he's not leading you anywhere.

kdspurman
06-18-2014, 10:29 AM
The fact pop says he didn't even run a play for kawhi tells you the system plays a big part.

Lets be for real here, you put kawhi in a role where he's a go to guy, he's not leading you anywhere.

He doesn't run many plays for anyone though, Parker & Duncan included. So it's tough to put much thought into that statement.

kdspurman
06-18-2014, 10:37 AM
Lebron had 25 35 22 28 31= 28.2 , he avg 27 in the season so....... What exactly did Leonard do? Stop him from scoring 35ppg? Even if he does get 37 ppg they still lose. Just relax enjoy your championship without ruining it over exaggerating


Leonardís defense on LeBron James in the series was key. Though James shot 57.6 percent against him, the Heat superforward wasnít always able to get his shot off or even get the ball. Nineteen percent of Jamesí touches against Leonard resulted in a James field goal attempt, compared to 33 percent against all other defenders. James was held without a touch on 33 percent of the Heatís possessions when guarded by Leonard, compared to 23 percent against all other defenders. Leonardís defense was still strong when he did find himself on someone other than James, with the rest of the Heat shooting just 27.8 percent (5-of-18) against him in the finals

and


Fewer shots
Only 17 percent of LeBronís touches against Leonard in the Finals have resulted in a field goal attempt. Thatís half the rate James has against all other defenders. That means Leonard has been successful forcing him to pass the ball or turn it over.

Fewer touches
Leonard has been successful keeping the ball out of LeBronís hands. James has been held without a touch on 35 percent of the Heatís possessions when heís guarded by Leonard. Against all other defenders heís held without a touch 25 percent of the time.

Fewer drives
James has driven to the basket on 13 percent of his touches against Leonard. That rate jumps to 22 percent against all other defenders. Leonard has been able to keep James in front of him and force tough angles to keep him away from the basket.

It all equals more Leonard vs James
Leonard finished a Heat possession on James 65 percent of the time when James was on the court in Game 3. James attempted only 14 field goal attempts in the game despite a series-high 73 touches.

Or how about from Game 5? Lebron's numbers guarded by Leonard vs others


Guarded by Leonard: 5 Points on 1-6 shooting ... Guarded by All Others: 19 points on 6-11 shooting


But yea... "What exactly did Leonard do". :pity:

Oh, BTW.... He also shot 65% when guarded by Lebron, so he made him work on both ends. People underestimate the value of Leonard's crazy long wing span and large hands. He is able to keep Lebron in front of him, like no one else has shown to do consistently. He did the same thing last year to a lesser degree.

Box score doesn't tell the whole story man. And using that only, you're doing yourself a disservice as you are missing valuable info.

http://www.rappler.com/sports/by-sport/basketball/60882-holding-court-spurs-trump-talent-teamwork

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/91407/kawhi-leonard-wreaking-havoc-on-lebron

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/91529/mvp-leonard-does-it-all

ink
06-18-2014, 11:09 AM
It's always all these east coast cats that put down KL. Does anyone actually watch the games besides boxscores? Kawhi Leonard was the best player in those last 3 games.

Maybe the point is that it doesn't matter. You of all people, as a Spurs fan, should realize that ranking of players is ludicrous. Pops proved that when he benched his whole starting rotation in the game against OKC.

Sure KL is excellent, but not in that ******** way "superstars" are good in this league. He's not the look-at-me-I-did-this type. His coach could lean on him hard in one series or in one game and then go to someone else in the next. That's the nature of team ball, especially as practised by Popovich.

I don't even see why this KD comment is being taken as a diss. Unless fans just enjoy being offended and fighting about their favourite players.

TylerSL
06-18-2014, 01:39 PM
Kevin Durant clearly has sour grapes but Kawhi is a better player by being on the Spurs. He is being taught not only how to play basketball the right way, but how to be a great leader by Popovich, Duncan, Manu and Parker who have been through it all. That does not mean he is only benefiting from playing in the Spurs system, he isn't. They didn't even run plays through him these first three years so that should prove every ounce of success he has had is him. He has benefited from being around and learning from great leaders, which he would not have had in Indiana, but all his talent he shows on the court is all him.

I could honestly see next year Kawhi becoming the offensive leader of that team. I think he will lead the team in minutes (about 35) and average something like 19/8/4 next year.