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View Full Version : The Spurs have the best ball movement of all time



IKnowHoops
06-10-2014, 11:46 PM
You don't break records for fg % without it. Great display today.

bucketss
06-10-2014, 11:49 PM
im still trying to figure out if it was humans or cyborgs playing that **** was unreal gotta hand it to them.

ManRam
06-10-2014, 11:51 PM
Well, again, ease with the hyperbole...

Unless you got some stats to back that up. "All time" is a reckless term to throw around.

They did lead the league in assists this year. No idea how far off the record they are.


Their shooting and unselfishness is just amazing though. People get so hung up on the importance of having one PG to be the floor general. Give me a team where everyone is a willing passer over that ANY day of the week. This whole notion that great passing PGs are so valuable is antiquated at this point. They can be, but, again, give me a TEAM that passes over that all day every day.

They were a clinic tonight. A joy to watch.

lakerboy
06-10-2014, 11:52 PM
It's beautiful to watch and they run the same play every time.

Duncan gives Parker a pick, and Parker passes it to Duncan right by the free throw line.

Duncan has 4 options.

-Drive in the lane if there is no help defense
-If there is help, pass to shooter 1
-If there is help, pass to shooter 2
-If there is help, pass to shooter 3

MrfadeawayJB
06-10-2014, 11:55 PM
You don't say?

Kashmir13579
06-10-2014, 11:56 PM
I agree. In an unfounded, hair-brain sort of way, I agree.

Vinny642
06-10-2014, 11:57 PM
It is a thing of beauty

Kashmir13579
06-10-2014, 11:58 PM
im still trying to figure out if it was humans or cyborgs playing that **** was unreal gotta hand it to them. in the 3rd qtr when Miami made that run, the Spurs just continue running their offense like its no sweat. Most coaches are calling a timeout in that spot.

beyourself
06-11-2014, 12:02 AM
They also shoot really, really well. People don't give a crap about ball movement if you can't knock down the shot.

PowerHouse
06-11-2014, 12:02 AM
I heard the A/C was fully operational at the game in Miami today. I wonder what Lebron's/Heat's lame excuse is going to be this time.

Sadds The Gr8
06-11-2014, 12:09 AM
Well, again, ease with the hyperbole...

Unless you got some stats to back that up. "All time" is a reckless term to throw around.

They did lead the league in assists this year. No idea how far off the record they are.


Their shooting and unselfishness is just amazing though. People get so hung up on the importance of having one PG to be the floor general. Give me a team where everyone is a willing passer over that ANY day of the week. This whole notion that great passing PGs are so valuable is antiquated at this point. They can be, but, again, give me a TEAM that passes over that all day every day.

They were a clinic tonight. A joy to watch.
that's why I'm not as high on Chris Paul anymore. pg's like that aren't needed to have a great offense...

Mr_Jones
06-11-2014, 12:15 AM
im still trying to figure out if it was humans or cyborgs playing that **** was unreal gotta hand it to them.

are you a heat fan

torocan
06-11-2014, 12:47 AM
I don't know if they are the greatest passing team of all time, but at their best I can't think of a single team I would definitively put above them. It's a hell of a thing.

Showtime Lakers, 2002 Kings... great passing teams. Still, I would have a hard time saying the Spurs aren't as good a passing team as them or any other NBA team I've seen in 25+ years as a fan.

We're all very lucky to know that we're seeing real history being made.

bucketss
06-11-2014, 12:50 AM
are you a heat fan

no.

steelcityroller
06-11-2014, 01:06 AM
I didn't watch all season but have watched these finals. Yeah the Spurs are playing textbook team basketball. The reason I quit watching years back was all the superstar mentality. But this is the type of ball I grew up loving with the Pistons, Knicks, Bulls, Jazz etc.

ewing
06-11-2014, 01:07 AM
this guy knows hoops

Hawkamania
06-11-2014, 01:17 AM
When it comes to a team game, San Antonio is great on both ends of the floor. I thoroughly enjoy watching them even though I'm not a fan.

Chrisclover
06-11-2014, 01:27 AM
If pop retires with Duncan this summer, the Spurs will be done.

Chrisclover
06-11-2014, 01:31 AM
The legend of the Spurs is largely due to Pop.

Kaner
06-11-2014, 01:49 AM
If pop retires with Duncan this summer, the Spurs will be done.

Wouldn't be surprised if Pop 'retiring' is just him leaving the bench and focusing on his pobbo job. Buford is a great GM and am sure they've got somebody in the wood works whose being groomed to take over for Pop when he retires. They'll miss the playoffs for a couple years and then be right back at the top of the league.

Chrisclover
06-11-2014, 02:37 AM
I dont know much about the FO of the Spurs. After all, the media just tout Pop.

L8kers4life
06-11-2014, 02:47 AM
I don't know if they are the greatest passing team of all time, but at their best I can't think of a single team I would
definitively put above them. It's a hell of a thing.

Showtime Lakers, 2002 Kings... great passing teams. Still, I would have a hard time saying the Spurs aren't as good a passing team as them or any other NBA team I've seen in 25+ years as a fan.

We're all very lucky to know that we're seeing real history being made.

The second championship of the Lakers 3peat 2001, i believe that team went 15-1 in The playoffs, DFish and Horry I dont think missed a single shot in the playoffs (NOT LITERALLY) but it seemed like it, that was the most dominate I have ever seen a team play, iverson stole game 1 of the finals, or they would have swept everyone, if you look at whAt they did to the Spurs that playoffs also, it was incredible.

L8kers4life
06-11-2014, 02:51 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2001/playoffs/news/2001/06/15/lakers_sixers_ap/?mobile=no

Here is the link for the Lakers team that went 15-1.


3]The second championship of the Lakers 3peat 2001, i believe that team went 15-1 in The playoffs, DFish and Horry I dont think missed a single shot in the playoffs (NOT LITERALLY) but it seemed like it, that was the most dominate I have ever seen a team play, iverson stole game 1 of the finals, or they would have swept everyone, if you look at whAt they did to the Spurs that playoffs also, it
was incredible.[/QUOTE]

Mr_Jones
06-11-2014, 02:53 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2001/playoffs/news/2001/06/15/lakers_sixers_ap/?mobile=no

Here is the link for the Lakers team that went 15-1.


3]The second championship of the Lakers 3peat 2001, i believe that team went 15-1 in The playoffs, DFish and Horry I dont think missed a single shot in the playoffs (NOT LITERALLY) but it seemed like it, that was the most dominate I have ever seen a team play, iverson stole game 1 of the finals, or they would have swept everyone, if you look at whAt they did to the Spurs that playoffs also, it
was incredible.[/QUOTE]

why are you posting that

L8kers4life
06-11-2014, 02:56 AM
why are you posting that[/QUOTE

Didnt mean to quote myself, just wanted to post the link of the team that went 15-1 in The playoffs. Im posting it because the question was, are the spurs the best passing team of all time, and I believe this team which I posted the link to may have an argument as well.

IKnowHoops
06-11-2014, 05:05 AM
why are you posting that[/QUOTE

Didnt mean to quote myself, just wanted to post the link of the team that went 15-1 in The playoffs. Im posting it because the question was, are the spurs the best passing team of all time, and I believe this team which I posted the link to may have an argument as well.

They have no argument at all. They are easily more talented. You don't have to pass the ball to but two guys when you got Prime Shaq and Prime Kobe. That team wasn't near the level of passing between players as the Spurs have now. The Spurs back then didn't pass the ball like they do now either. They had Drob and Duncan so they had a different game. That lakers team may be be better than this spurs team, but do they move the ball on anywhere close to the level of this Spurs team? Hecky naw.

amos1er
06-11-2014, 06:00 AM
this guy knows hoops

Lol...

I always tell him that.

Well, quite the opposite actually.

PurpleLynch
06-11-2014, 07:14 AM
why are you posting that[/QUOTE

Didnt mean to quote myself, just wanted to post the link of the team that went 15-1 in The playoffs. Im posting it because the question was, are the spurs the best passing team of all time, and I believe this team which I posted the link to may have an argument as well.

Disagree,the Lakers were dominant,but they haven't the same level of passing the Spurs are showing us right now. We're talking about the team with the best ball movement of all time,not the best playoffs run of all time.

KnicksorBust
06-11-2014, 07:18 AM
Well, again, ease with the hyperbole...

Unless you got some stats to back that up. "All time" is a reckless term to throw around.

They did lead the league in assists this year. No idea how far off the record they are.


Their shooting and unselfishness is just amazing though. People get so hung up on the importance of having one PG to be the floor general. Give me a team where everyone is a willing passer over that ANY day of the week. This whole notion that great passing PGs are so valuable is antiquated at this point. They can be, but, again, give me a TEAM that passes over that all day every day.

They were a clinic tonight. A joy to watch.

They are off the record by over 500 assists... Mid 80s Lakers were not just the most prolific of all-time but ranked as the top 4 teams.

#1.) 85 Lakers
#2.) 83 Lakers
#3.) 86 Lakers
#4.) 87 Lakers
#5.) 87 Celtics

Link: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tsl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=team_totals&lg_id=NBA&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&c1stat=ast_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=wins

However, is it over-simplifying "ball movement" just by looking at assists? If you look at AST/TO then suddenly the 92 Bulls become relevant as the only team in the Top 50 in assists that also have an AST/TO ratio over 2.

MagicBucsSox
06-11-2014, 08:02 AM
It's not better than LA show time or the Nash suns

Iron24th
06-11-2014, 08:55 AM
Their ball movementis beautiful to watch.

D-Leethal
06-11-2014, 10:58 AM
im still trying to figure out if it was humans or cyborgs playing that **** was unreal gotta hand it to them. in the 3rd qtr when Miami made that run, the Spurs just continue running their offense like its no sweat. Most coaches are calling a timeout in that spot.

I noticed that too. Very Phil-esque not calling a TO and they turned it around in a big way without one.

ManRam
06-11-2014, 11:07 AM
It's not better than LA show time or the Nash suns

Boris Diaw played a huge role with those Suns teams. The common denominator!

hugepatsfan
06-11-2014, 11:51 AM
Well, again, ease with the hyperbole...

Unless you got some stats to back that up. "All time" is a reckless term to throw around.

They did lead the league in assists this year. No idea how far off the record they are.


Their shooting and unselfishness is just amazing though. People get so hung up on the importance of having one PG to be the floor general. Give me a team where everyone is a willing passer over that ANY day of the week. This whole notion that great passing PGs are so valuable is antiquated at this point. They can be, but, again, give me a TEAM that passes over that all day every day.

They were a clinic tonight. A joy to watch.

Passing is most effective when you get the defense rotating. Being a passing PG is only part of what's needed - there ability to drive and break down the defense is another thing. Great ball movement starts with the first pass. It's not passing PGs that are overrated IMO. Judging the best passing PGs by assist numbers is what's overrated.

BALLER R
06-11-2014, 12:05 PM
The way the spurs offense is you don't need a great PG. What I don't understand is why other teams or players can't play like that. Is it safe to say majority of them are selfish. I hate seeing teams run ISO plays majority of the time. I hate when Toronto does it, OKC, and even New York. The spurs offense is just beautiful that's what a team is. Heck Miami's offense and ball movement is great too, it's just that the spurs ball movement is amazing.

cooters22
06-11-2014, 12:36 PM
My favorite team in the league to watch.....I don't need the dunking, traveling, showing off, etc.....that comes with what other teams do. I can only hope my Milwaukee Bucks can be the next San Antonio Spurs in passing.....yes, long road.

Stinkyoutsider
06-11-2014, 12:40 PM
Credit goes to the coaching staff for having the players buy into playing the sort of team ball we all saw last night. And credit also goes to the players for allowing themselves to be coached and executing it.

SLY WILLIAMS
06-11-2014, 01:33 PM
They did a great job but the best passing team I remember was the 1985-86 Celtics.

cooters22
06-11-2014, 01:51 PM
They did a great job but the best passing team I remember was the 1985-86 Celtics.

Yes, I also remember some great Laker teams with Magic, Rambis, Worthy, Kareem, Nixon. Heck every shot they looked to pass and push.

KnicksorBust
06-11-2014, 03:58 PM
They did a great job but the best passing team I remember was the 1985-86 Celtics.

Interestingly enough, the 86 Celtics were arguably the most successful team... but there were actually two separate 80s Celtics teams that produced more assists.


Yes, I also remember some great Laker teams with Magic, Rambis, Worthy, Kareem, Nixon. Heck every shot they looked to pass and push.

Those teams also rank very highly in turnovers (compared to other teams from my search). Does that hurt them at all?


They are off the record by over 500 assists... Mid 80s Lakers were not just the most prolific of all-time but ranked as the top 4 teams.

#1.) 85 Lakers
#2.) 83 Lakers
#3.) 86 Lakers
#4.) 87 Lakers
#5.) 87 Celtics

Link: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tsl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=team_totals&lg_id=NBA&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&c1stat=ast_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=wins

However, is it over-simplifying "ball movement" just by looking at assists? If you look at AST/TO then suddenly the 92 Bulls become relevant as the only team in the Top 50 in assists that also have an AST/TO ratio over 2.

Are the Bulls automatically DQ'd because of MJ? That 92 team had good passers like MJ-Scottie-Paxson-BJ-Grant.

MagicBucsSox
06-11-2014, 05:11 PM
Boris Diaw played a huge role with those Suns teams. The common denominator!

I like to think 2x MVP Steve Nash played the huger role

Raidergrant
06-11-2014, 05:36 PM
The Kings from 1999-2004 were a incredible passing team. Two of the best passing big men ever on the same team. But what the Spurs did yesterday was amazing and I really hope they do the same thing in game 4.

PurpleLynch
06-11-2014, 05:52 PM
Interestingly enough, the 86 Celtics were arguably the most successful team... but there were actually two separate 80s Celtics teams that produced more assists.



Those teams also rank very highly in turnovers (compared to other teams from my search). Does that hurt them at all?



Are the Bulls automatically DQ'd because of MJ? That 92 team had good passers like MJ-Scottie-Paxson-BJ-Grant.

Those Bulls must be included for sure,Mj was just the 2nd best passer in that team :D .

Pablonovi
06-11-2014, 06:51 PM
They are off the record by over 500 assists... Mid 80s Lakers were not just the most prolific of all-time but ranked as the top 4 teams.

#1.) 85 Lakers
#2.) 83 Lakers
#3.) 86 Lakers
#4.) 87 Lakers
#5.) 87 Celtics

Link: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tsl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=team_totals&lg_id=NBA&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&c1stat=ast_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=wins

However, is it over-simplifying "ball movement" just by looking at assists? If you look at AST/TO then suddenly the 92 Bulls become relevant as the only team in the Top 50 in assists that also have an AST/TO ratio over 2.

Hey KnicksorBust,
Thanx for the work you put into compiling this query chart; tons of useful info in one place.
I only wish it included every team, including the ones that were not >20 assists.
I'd love to see a similar one for ABA (& NBL if it exists).

P.S. Don't know if I'd told you before (or you noticed in one of my posts); but I'm born & raised N.J. (not far from NYC). Since the late '50's, my second-favorite has always been the Knicks (after the Lakers).
Yours sincerely,
Pablo

Goose17
06-12-2014, 04:44 AM
In terms of offense, that first quarter is the best quarter of basketball I have ever seen in my life. Simple as that.


I've said for years that San Antonio are the best TEAM in the NBA, I even said it at the start of this season and people on here mocked me saying they weren't even the best team in their conference listing OKC, Houston, LAC etc... it's amazing how people underrate them every ****ing year. For the last few years people always say that they're finished, last year was the end, they're too old etc.

rocketfuel
06-12-2014, 06:34 AM
Mark Jackson mentioned in game 1 that Duncan doesn't talk to Parker and Ginobli...what did he mean by that? I always thought they got along like gangbusters. Unless, Jackson mean that in a different context.

kdspurman
06-12-2014, 10:01 AM
Mark Jackson mentioned in game 1 that Duncan doesn't talk to Parker and Ginobli...what did he mean by that? I always thought they got along like gangbusters. Unless, Jackson mean that in a different context.

He may have been referring to something they were talking about when they (Parker/Ginobili) were both rookies, Duncan didn't really speak to them. If I had to guess I'd think it may have been in that regard, cause now of course they're all very close.

QueensG_718
06-12-2014, 11:45 AM
I love watching the spurs play. That's real basketball at its finest. The ball movement is amazing. And Boris diaw is the best fat basketball player of all time.

NBA_Starter
06-12-2014, 04:53 PM
No doubt about that, the proof is in the pudding!

LOOTERX9
06-12-2014, 05:18 PM
No but they are the most boring team. Spurs have good players and 1 great player that majority of fans dont care about. Sad but true

LOOTERX9
06-12-2014, 05:21 PM
No one is paying money to go see spurs when they come to town no matter if they win title. Fans still will pay to see okc, miami,clippers and GS. Thats the truth of the matter.

KnicksorBust
06-12-2014, 05:28 PM
No doubt about that, the proof is in the pudding!

What proof? Any reasonable statistic says it's a Mid 80s Lakers/Celtics team or the 90s Bulls.


No one is paying money to go see spurs when they come to town no matter if they win title. Fans still will pay to see okc, miami,clippers and GS. Thats the truth of the matter.

:laugh: Then how come the Spurs/Heat ratings were better than Heat/OKC? You don't know what you are talking about my friend.

Bruno
06-12-2014, 05:32 PM
definitely the best passing team in recent memory, along with the 2011 Mavs. thats without running any numbers.

rocketfuel
06-12-2014, 07:04 PM
He may have been referring to something they were talking about when they (Parker/Ginobili) were both rookies, Duncan didn't really speak to them. If I had to guess I'd think it may have been in that regard, cause now of course they're all very close.

Oh good to know. I was temporarily disappointed when I heard that. Similar to the way I was disappointed in hearing that Jordan wasn't that nice of a guy.

rocketfuel
06-12-2014, 07:09 PM
Yes. Is it just me or does Boris Diaw look like he's upped his game 3 notches? I always thought he was a good player, but now he looks like a gamechanger.

I admit that I've secretly started becoming a fan of the Spurs. It reminded me of a friend of mine who used to rag on this Phillipino rap group that he played in his office. He would laugh at it...but then I noticed that he started humming to it every day, checking for updates on their fan page. This ain't your mama's Spurs. They go up and down the court fast, move the ball precisely and the ball seems to hit nothing but net on a higher percentage. It's a mixture of the old vets with the new young guns (Green, Kawhi, Mills) and rediscovered gems (Diaw).

The finals the last two years have been some of the most exciting finals basketball. I hope they face each other a 3rd time down the road. For some reason, I get the feeling that the other western conference teams would not have put up the challenge the way the Spurs are to the Heat. Makes for great drama.

Pablonovi
06-12-2014, 08:37 PM
Mark Jackson mentioned in game 1 that Duncan doesn't talk to Parker and Ginobli...what did he mean by that? I always thought they got along like gangbusters. Unless, Jackson mean that in a different context.

Hey rocketfuel,
I saw that too. That was SPECIFICALLY referring to their first year or two. TD does that with new guys. They have to earn his trust. They did, and BINGO.

QueensG_718
06-12-2014, 10:13 PM
No but they are the most boring team. Spurs have good players and 1 great player that majority of fans dont care about. Sad but true

The spurs are very fun to watch if your into basketball being played the right way. I don't know what your talking about. Their passing is dazzling to watch.

NYSpirit1
06-12-2014, 10:18 PM
I don't really get the Spurs. They're not overly talented and on paper with Duncan at 38 (with most of his counterparts retired), Parker at 32 and Ginobili at 36, they don't have the look of a team that gets out of the first round. They have two old former stars, Parker whose still a star, but doesn't put up the statistics of a star and a ton of role players.

Now here's the X factor. They've probably gotten the most out of 5 or 6 role players that any team has EVER. They may have the best ball movement EVER. And Gregg Popovich is a top 5 coach ever and still is.

Throw that with a team that on paper should win 45-50 games with those names and you get a team that's wiping the floor with a LeBron James-Heat team. Wow.

Game_Over
06-12-2014, 10:20 PM
The Spurs have me watching, I love to watch any team beat the heat!!

AssistantCoach
06-12-2014, 11:38 PM
Boris Diaw Manu Ginóbili that is all.

siix
06-12-2014, 11:54 PM
beautiful team

Pablonovi
06-13-2014, 12:18 AM
It's a bit of a challenge for me to realize that a team could challenge the Magic-led Show-Time Lakers. But, this is just better passing. You've got 9 guys that are almost interchangeable; and the ball never STICKS! You move the ball so quickly and continuously and you:
1) neutralize Miami's greatest strength, it's swarming D
2) get wide-open shots at an unprecedented rate;
3) wear the HEAT out, particularly LeBron who is already trying to do "everything".

POP has done something unique, imo. This is truly both a super-starless team and a TEAM for the ages.

steelcityroller
06-13-2014, 02:17 AM
It's not better than LA show time or the Nash suns

Can't speak for Showtime but I put them over the Nash Suns for sure.

The best ball movement I've seen in my 20+ years as a fan.

L8kers4life
06-13-2014, 02:57 AM
What proof? Any reasonable statistic says it's a Mid 80s Lakers/Celtics team or the 90s Bulls.



:laugh: Then how come the Spurs/Heat ratings were better than Heat/OKC? You don't know what you are talking about my friend.


The ratings went up because people want to see LeBron and the Heat lose, this next game of the finals on Sunday, May be one of the highest ratings we may see, because the Heat are facing elimination.

LOOTERX9
06-13-2014, 06:34 AM
that series was 4-1. spurs/heat went 7 so rating increased as series grew. the rating was the same 1st 3 games vs okc as 1st 3 games vs spurs last yr. next game will get higher rating cause heat may get eliminated. the heat brings ratings not the spurs. spurs historically has gotten lowest ratings besides when playing marquee teams like heat/okc

Pablonovi
06-13-2014, 08:36 AM
Can't speak for Showtime but I put them over the Nash Suns for sure.

The best ball movement I've seen in my 20+ years as a fan.

Why Spurfection Might Be Better Even Than Magic's Show-Time Lakers: THE BALL NEVER STICKS!

Hey scr,
Perhaps you'll "take my word for it" (having watched the NBA rabidly since the late '50's; especially, but not at all restricted to, the Lakers); when the rebounder kicked the ball out to Magic, the break was ON! You'd see Magic's face just light up; the rest of the team would be sprinting down court to get in position. He had incredible court-vision while pounding the rock most of the 94 feet; he almost NEVER took it to the rim, because somebody else had to have a more open shot - and Magic was as self-less as they come. (My #1 GOAT TEAM-mate). His passes were always things of beauty. He automatically (with his team-first attitude and precision passion) made his teammates the best they could be.

The only time I ever really saw that decade's worth of Show-Time slowed was when they (I believe intentionally) screwed with the A/C at the Boston Gaaaaden in that Finals Game. The C's won because Show Time became a bit Slow Time in that ferocious heat.

Still, THIS Spurfection has something unique that, imo, is BETTER than Magic's Show-Time Lakers. All 9 guys are just about interchangeably great at moving the ball. THE BALL NEVER STICKS - which means that IF on the break or in the half-court set, a shot doesn't immediately open up; eventually it WILL because no team can, all 24 seconds long, all-game long, prevent the ball from finding an open guy (because the ball is always moving faster than the defenders feet can).

Witness Spurfection disintegrating the HEAT's Greatest Strength: their swarming D. The ball is just beating them virtually every possession AND wearing them out - so they're out of gas in the 4th.

rocketfuel
06-13-2014, 06:07 PM
Hey rocketfuel,
I saw that too. That was SPECIFICALLY referring to their first year or two. TD does that with new guys. They have to earn his trust. They did, and BINGO.

That's a little surprising. Though, TD looked like he loved his teammates yesterday.

rocketfuel
06-13-2014, 06:15 PM
The supporting cast for the Spurs is under rated. I think they are all hitting their peak or going above it. Boris Diaw is like a real game changer. Kawhi Leonard looks more dominant than Paul George. Paddy Mills is quick, a good 3 point shooter and an emerging talent. It looks its 10 on 4 out there. That's why Spolestra has to keep tinkering and throw in players that aren't as good to compete with the super subs of the Spurs. It's not just the Spurs system, the players themselves are actually very talented. As for going against the teams of the 80s, this Spurs team plays very good defense in addition to their offense as we are seeing with what the Heat are facing. I don't think the Heat aren't playing with passion....I think they are going up against competition that's really putting their backs against the walls. They didn't have to face this level with the Pacers, etc.

Pablonovi
06-13-2014, 07:07 PM
That's a little surprising. Though, TD looked like he loved his teammates yesterday.

Hey rocketfuel,
Well, it is and it isn't. Any veteran is going to TEND to NOT be too eager with the "Freshmen/Rookies"; waiting to see what if anything they're going to contribute and HOW they're going to behave generally, and specifically with the team's veteran leadership. This is only natural, no?

OTOH, of course any player is going to look like he loves his teammates after such a tremendous victory in such an important game in the Finals against the very team that beat them the year before in a heart-breaking fashion. That's only natural too.

When you think about it, the one does not in any way contradict the other.

Pablonovi
06-13-2014, 07:17 PM
The supporting cast for the Spurs is under rated. I think they are all hitting their peak or going above it. Boris Diaw is like a real game changer. Kawhi Leonard looks more dominant than Paul George. Paddy Mills is quick, a good 3 point shooter and an emerging talent. It looks its 10 on 4 out there. That's why Spolestra has to keep tinkering and throw in players that aren't as good to compete with the super subs of the Spurs. It's not just the Spurs system, the players themselves are actually very talented. As for going against the teams of the 80s, this Spurs team plays very good defense in addition to their offense as we are seeing with what the Heat are facing. I don't think the Heat aren't playing with passion....I think they are going up against competition that's really putting their backs against the walls. They didn't have to face this level with the Pacers, etc.

Hey rocketfuel,
I agree with almost everything you say.
I would just object to, "I don't think the Heat aren't playing with passion."
Judging passion is a very subjective, hard-to-nail-down thing. Almost always when teams win, they are said to have played with passion. Almost always when teams lose, they are said to have played without passion.

I think what's really going on is it is NOT about the HEAT at all. 9-Deep Spurfection is just overwhelming them on both ends of the floor.

On Offense: Spurfection means that the ball NEVER STICKS; instead it is moving so fast, that it has neutralized the HEAT's best weapon: their swarming Defense. AND, because the HEAT are constantly chasing the ball as it whips around the court AND because the Spurs are constantly rotating FRESH guys in - the HEAT are getting exhausted, especially LeBron who was already being asked to carry a huge load - kills himself for 3 quarters to no avail and is spent in the 4th.

On Defense: The HEAT's "best play" is to drive it to the rim. BUT the Spurs are swarming/packing the paint. Instead of the HEAT getting relatively easy points and getting the Spurs in foul trouble; the HEAT are missing and picking up charges.

Your MAIN POINT is absolutely correct. It is the combination of the right players PLUS a superb system (Spurfection) that is just too much for the HEAT (as it was too much for 3 very tough Western Conf. opponents earlier in these Play-Offs).

The best reason why OKC fought them so tough is because:
1) OKC's team speed is very high (seemingly a lot higher than the HEAT's)
2) In particular, Westy * has demon speed and just dominated TP. Miami doesn't have anybody like that; and TP is "running wild" on them. When they put LeBron on TP, he can stop him; but it costs him so much energy that the HEAT lose on Offense what they've gained on Defense.

* Russell Westbrook (I've been predicting he will be next year's 2015 MVP - because of his unique demon speed.)

torocan
06-13-2014, 07:17 PM
That's a little surprising. Though, TD looked like he loved his teammates yesterday.

Let's not forget that TD has been around a LONG time. He has no idea whether these guys are going to make the team or how long that they'll last, or if they'll last at all.

I suspect it may be part of it that TD is just an introvert. He doesn't seem the type that's going to open up to just anyone, especially someone who's may be gone in 3 or 6 months. That and he's probably seen one too many young bucks who think that they know everything that he just may not have the patience for it.

TD wants to see what you're made of on the court and in the gym. Show him who you are first. Then maybe he'll be interested in what you have to say.

rocketfuel
06-14-2014, 01:08 AM
Hey rocketfuel,
Well, it is and it isn't. Any veteran is going to TEND to NOT be too eager with the "Freshmen/Rookies"; waiting to see what if anything they're going to contribute and HOW they're going to behave generally, and specifically with the team's veteran leadership. This is only natural, no?

OTOH, of course any player is going to look like he loves his teammates after such a tremendous victory in such an important game in the Finals against the very team that beat them the year before in a heart-breaking fashion. That's only natural too.

When you think about it, the one does not in any way contradict the other.

I was just a little surprised by Jackson's comments since I have such an elevated image of Duncan as the ultimate team guy. It shouldn't matter if a guy has been here 1 day or 15 years, they are your teammate and the new guys might need it more since they are anxious about joining the league. I just have not seen him in any of the games interacting like that. I don't know if there's really any basis to Jackson's comments.





Let's not forget that TD has been around a LONG time. He has no idea whether these guys are going to make the team or how long that they'll last, or if they'll last at all.

I suspect it may be part of it that TD is just an introvert. He doesn't seem the type that's going to open up to just anyone, especially someone who's may be gone in 3 or 6 months. That and he's probably seen one too many young bucks who think that they know everything that he just may not have the patience for it.

TD wants to see what you're made of on the court and in the gym. Show him who you are first. Then maybe he'll be interested in what you have to say.

He might just be an introvert and it was misinterpreted that way....and we don't even know if Jackson has any basis for this. Duncan, Parker and Ginobli seem pretty fond of each other. They talk about each other pretty endearingly. I love how Parker calls him Tim-eeee.

rocketfuel
06-15-2014, 02:42 AM
Hey rocketfuel,
I agree with almost everything you say.
I would just object to, "I don't think the Heat aren't playing with passion."
Judging passion is a very subjective, hard-to-nail-down thing. Almost always when teams win, they are said to have played with passion. Almost always when teams lose, they are said to have played without passion.

I think what's really going on is it is NOT about the HEAT at all. 9-Deep Spurfection is just overwhelming them on both ends of the floor.

On Offense: Spurfection means that the ball NEVER STICKS; instead it is moving so fast, that it has neutralized the HEAT's best weapon: their swarming Defense. AND, because the HEAT are constantly chasing the ball as it whips around the court AND because the Spurs are constantly rotating FRESH guys in - the HEAT are getting exhausted, especially LeBron who was already being asked to carry a huge load - kills himself for 3 quarters to no avail and is spent in the 4th.

On Defense: The HEAT's "best play" is to drive it to the rim. BUT the Spurs are swarming/packing the paint. Instead of the HEAT getting relatively easy points and getting the Spurs in foul trouble; the HEAT are missing and picking up charges.

Your MAIN POINT is absolutely correct. It is the combination of the right players PLUS a superb system (Spurfection) that is just too much for the HEAT (as it was too much for 3 very tough Western Conf. opponents earlier in these Play-Offs).

The best reason why OKC fought them so tough is because:
1) OKC's team speed is very high (seemingly a lot higher than the HEAT's)
2) In particular, Westy * has demon speed and just dominated TP. Miami doesn't have anybody like that; and TP is "running wild" on them. When they put LeBron on TP, he can stop him; but it costs him so much energy that the HEAT lose on Offense what they've gained on Defense.

* Russell Westbrook (I've been predicting he will be next year's 2015 MVP - because of his unique demon speed.)

Yeah, I could play with "passion" against a prime Michael Jordan and he'd still put up 100 points on me. Mark jackson was kind of overstating the passion angle. In fact, I think the Heat looked confused that they were playing so hard and getting trounced. The Spurs get tagged for being "old," bu they really aren't. They have some young guns on that team that are playing way out of their minds. This is the team that took them to the brink last year, but their supporting cast have gotten way better.

Kawhi has pretty much cancelled out Lebron the last two games, if not slightly playing better because he's been more disruptive on defense.
Boris Diaw, barely a factor last year, is hitting on all cylinders of his talent and looks like one of the best all around passing big men I've seen.
Danny Green. Set the record for finals 3 last year....this year he showed it's no fluke and now he's really shown some other areas of his game, defense and driving the ball.
Paddy Mills. He looks way improved from last year. He's fast, can penetrate and shoots better from 3 than Tony Parker.
And we haven't even gotten to the big 3 Duncan, Tony Parker and Ginolbli who have played well. The other guys like Tiago and Bellini are pretty solid.

Spolestra is stuck trying to find a decent sub from Jones, Tony Douglas to make for Chalmers and Cole have subpar games.

This year's Spurs just hits at the Heat's weak spots.

1. They don't turn the ball over. Heat depend on steals and turnovers to go on breaks to make up for their lack of size.
2. The Spurs have talent at their bigs and their bigs happen to be some of their best passers. Bosh is more of a perimeter player.
3. With Diaw in the starting lineup, the Spurs are balanced at all 5 positions and force the Heat to guard all 5 positions, while the Heat have basically 3 guys (4 if Allen is in) to guard on the other end. That's exhausting because no other guys really present threats.
4. The Spurs have really good shooting from most of their positions and can outduel them in a shooting contest.

OKC presented a unique challenge because Ibaka is a tremendous shotblocker. Westbrook looked like the most athletic point guard we've seen probably ever. The Spurs eventually overwhelmed them with depth and more guys that can score....

slashsnake
06-15-2014, 04:48 AM
:laugh: Then how come the Spurs/Heat ratings were better than Heat/OKC? You don't know what you are talking about my friend.

It is interesting. But to be honest, I think its the heat. These last 4 years have all been around a 10.1-10.4 rating.

Last time the Spurs were in the finals before that (against the Cavs) it was the lowest rated finals ever (6.2).

Time before that was Spurs Pistons which was 3 points lower than the Lakers/Pistons the year before.

Time before that was the Nets, with the 2nd lowest finals ever and a huge drop.

Time before that was the Spurs/Knicks, which at the time was the lowest rated finals since 1981.

I'd like to believe it is because fans finally are changing their mind on the Spurs, but I honestly think it's the Heat. Their draw has been pretty consistantly the same the past 4 years no matter who else is playing them. You look at the Jordan Bulls, and the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, it was pretty consistent with them too.


And actually looking at it they aren't better.

Game 1... OKC 9.9 rating, Spurs 9.0 and 8.8 ratings
Game 2... OKC 10.4 rating, spurs 8.5 and 9.0
Game 3... OKC 8.8 rating, Spurs 8.5 and 9.0
Game 4... OKC 10.5 rating, Spurs 10.0 and 9.3?
Game 5... OkC 10.9 rating. Spurs 9.5

Games 6 and 7 (always the most watched when games go deeper) is the only reason OKC had fewer viewers. But game for game they've beaten the spurs consistently in viewership.

rocketfuel
06-15-2014, 07:38 AM
It's also because of the exciting series last year. Like a great movie that comes out with a sequel. People show up for the sequel.

JJ_JKidd
06-15-2014, 08:39 PM
And I thought lob, dunks, PER, MVPs, and other individual BS is what's important here @ PSD, and not the game as played by a TEAM as a whole?

bagwell368
06-15-2014, 09:46 PM
Certainly the best of this era. Might want to tune in to the Celts and Lakers of mid the 80's too.

BTW looking at assist numbers is massively flawed. Cousy would have averaged 5-6 more a game given the way they hand them out now. Even in Magic's time they didn't hand them out as easily as now.

Love to see SAS beating the 3 super star/meh team concept teams to get the title I must say. Too bad they didn't get it last year as well.