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View Full Version : How will winning this year affect Duncan's legacy?



Crunch Time
06-01-2014, 12:47 PM
A lot of people currently have him to close out their top 10. He's made his mark already both in terms of good numbers, rings, and longevity. Question is, will winning this year (probably not FMVP though, but it's not out of the question) catapult him a few places up? Or is his legacy pretty much set?

Question has been posed with respect to Kobe but most people here say that winning a ring won't do much to add to KB's legacy at this point. Was wondering if it's the same thing with Duncan.


As a side note, I don't think not winning will have an effect whatsoever. But feel free to disagree.

FlashBolt
06-01-2014, 12:55 PM
I'll bump him up over Hakeem and Shaq.

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
Kobe
Shaq
Hakeem
Duncan
Wilt
LeBron
Bird

KnicksorBust
06-01-2014, 02:18 PM
If they win and he plays okay, he will be around 6-7.

But...

If they win and Duncan wins finals mvp? That could put him top 5.

Hangtime
06-01-2014, 02:24 PM
I believe Duncan would have gotten MVP last year. If he has a similar performance and they win it all with MVP he would be top 5 for sure.

abe_froman
06-01-2014, 02:37 PM
it depends on how he plays

right now i have him in the middle of my top tier and unsure it'll change my ranking all that much

KnicksorBust
06-01-2014, 02:40 PM
I'll bump him up over Hakeem and Shaq.

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
Kobe
Shaq
Hakeem
Duncan
Wilt
LeBron
Bird

So a 5x League MVP cant even crack your top 10?

KnicksorBust
06-01-2014, 02:41 PM
it depends on how he plays

right now i have him in the middle of my top tier and unsure it'll change my ranking all that much

I find it hard to imagine a situation where a 5th title wouldnt improve someones legacy...

abe_froman
06-01-2014, 02:49 PM
I find it hard to imagine a situation where a 5th title wouldnt improve someones legacy...
i didnt say it wouldnt improve his legacy,just that i dunno if it would change my ranking because already have him so high(i cant bump him over someone like shaq or hakeem,because already have him higher than them).it'd have a much greater impact on parker as far as rankings/tiers go

Hangtime
06-01-2014, 02:54 PM
I find it hard to imagine a situation where a 5th title wouldnt improve someones legacy...

Not only that but another Finals MVP at his age speaks volumes. No way he should stay in the same spot.

FlashBolt
06-01-2014, 03:18 PM
So a 5x League MVP cant even crack your top 10?

Russell? The guy who won as a player-coach, played in a league in where they were only 10 teams, only 7 wins needed to make the Finals? I only put Wilt there because he was actually dominant regardless of the competition, 50/25 in any era is insane. However, Bill wasn't even a good offensive player and would borderline hit 10/10 in today's league. When Wilt joined the league, there were only 4 players above 6"8, with Russell/Wilt being two of them. In any team in the NBA today, even the small Miami Heat squad has more than 4 players above 6"8: James, Bosh, Anderson, Lewis, Haslem, Oden, Hamilton, Beasley, James Jones, and Battier.. Keep in mind, 6 of these players aren't even center's. So yeah, I'm not going to put Bill over someone like the likes of Duncan - who actually achieved his accolades.

NYKNYGNYY
06-01-2014, 03:46 PM
top 10 win top 15 lose...still got em to the finals 2 years in a row in his late 30's

NYKNYGNYY
06-01-2014, 03:47 PM
I don't wanna make a thread for this but I was thkning about it....

could Kawaii Lenard with a decent supporting cast bring a team to the playoffs with him being the number 1 option? even as a 8 seed?

Crunch Time
06-01-2014, 03:48 PM
I find it hard to imagine a situation where a 5th title wouldnt improve someones legacy...

People said a 6th ring (assuming fMVP as well, this was maybe 2-3 years ago) wouldn't add much if any to Kobe's.

P&GRealist
06-01-2014, 03:52 PM
People said a 6th ring (assuming fMVP as well, this was maybe 2-3 years ago) wouldn't add much if any to Kobe's.

Yup.

Sly Guy
06-02-2014, 12:46 PM
I don't wanna make a thread for this but I was thkning about it....

could Kawaii Lenard with a decent supporting cast bring a team to the playoffs with him being the number 1 option? even as a 8 seed?

IMO no, I think pop has a lot more to do with the spurs' success than any one player alone.

KnicksorBust
06-02-2014, 02:50 PM
Russell? The guy who won as a player-coach, played in a league in where they were only 10 teams, only 7 wins needed to make the Finals? I only put Wilt there because he was actually dominant regardless of the competition, 50/25 in any era is insane. However, Bill wasn't even a good offensive player and would borderline hit 10/10 in today's league. When Wilt joined the league, there were only 4 players above 6"8, with Russell/Wilt being two of them. In any team in the NBA today, even the small Miami Heat squad has more than 4 players above 6"8: James, Bosh, Anderson, Lewis, Haslem, Oden, Hamilton, Beasley, James Jones, and Battier.. Keep in mind, 6 of these players aren't even center's. So yeah, I'm not going to put Bill over someone like the likes of Duncan - who actually achieved his accolades.

Wilt dominated but Russell won more league MVPs. How do you explain that?

KnicksorBust
06-02-2014, 02:50 PM
People said a 6th ring (assuming fMVP as well, this was maybe 2-3 years ago) wouldn't add much if any to Kobe's.

They'd be wrong. That would put him as the 3rd greatest player of all-time.

P&GRealist
06-06-2014, 01:51 PM
Timmy had 21 & 10 on 9/10 shooting in game 1. I think he'll get better with every game. I hope the Spurs win and Timmy gets that 4th finals MVP. He'd definitely be in my top 5-6 all time.

ManRam
06-06-2014, 01:56 PM
Duncan's longevity is really becoming a force at this point. I think the success of recent years, and especially a ring this year, can't be understated.

His per 36 minute stats this year: 18.7 - 12.0 - 3.7 on 49% shooting
His career per 36 minute stats: 20.6 - 11.5 - 3.2 on 50.6% shooting


The guy's still producing amazingly well for a 38 year old. The advanced stats more accurately show how he certainly isn't the same force, but the basic stats are still pretty damn impressive. His level of production when he's on the court really hasn't dipped a ton. It's truly amazing. Longevity matters a ton, and he's starting to do it on historic levels.

What number would I attach to him for an all time ranking? I don't know. But I think it's time for most to start thinking that maybe his career legacy is a bit more impressive than whatever we thought it was 3-4 years ago.


The same exact would be true if Kobe was doing what Duncan is doing too. Longevity has always been Kobe's legacy strength (aside from team success). Extending that would have done wonders. Bump him up a few spots for sure. But that ship has unfortunately sailed.

ewing
06-06-2014, 01:59 PM
it will cement him as the best guy that played b/t Micheal and LeBron

bucketss
06-06-2014, 02:02 PM
he surpasses kobe,,for sure now since theres still a legit debate between the two,

P&GRealist
06-06-2014, 02:04 PM
he surpasses kobe,,for sure now since theres still a legit debate between the two,

I agree with that. Along with surpassing Shaq, and then Bird, and maybe even Wilt IMO as well.

kdspurman
06-06-2014, 02:53 PM
First guy to shoot 90% and have +20 points and +10 rebounds in a finals game since Wilt in 72. Only other guy to do it was Russell in 65. Unfortunately, it probably won't be discussed much. For a 38 year old in those conditions, pretty impressive work.

Bruno
06-06-2014, 03:23 PM
MJ, Wilt and KAJ are the only players in NBA history with legitimate arguments over the big fundamental w/ a sixth ring and finals MVP.

Magic, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, Hakeem, Russell. they're all behind Duncan if he racks a finals MVP imo.

Magic and Bird didn't play long enough or play enough defense. Kobe can't anchor a defense. Shaq was a career underachiever who bounced around from team to team for a reason and Hakeem hasn't accomplished as much as Duncan. thats my two cents, Duncan is under appreciated and a lot of players in NBA history are over rated in the all time rankings (Russell, Magic and Bird).

ManRam
06-06-2014, 03:32 PM
MJ, Wilt and KAJ are the only players in NBA history with legitimate arguments over the big fundamental w/ a sixth ring and finals MVP.

Magic, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, Hakeem, Russell. they're all behind Duncan if he racks a finals MVP imo.

Magic and Bird didn't play long enough or play enough defense. Kobe can't anchor a defense. Shaq was a career underachiever who bounced around from team to team for a reason and Hakeem hasn't accomplished as much as Duncan. thats my two cents, Duncan is under appreciated and a lot of players in NBA history are over rated in the all time rankings (Russell, Magic and Bird).

Pretty much this. I think if they win he'll be potentially top-5 ever on my list. We're doing a PSD top-50 all time thing this summer...and I think Duncan will be one of the more interesting guys voted on.

I will say, I don't think "Kobe can't anchor a defense" isn't entirely fair when comparing him to Duncan. That's mostly just a positional difference. No wing is gonna ever be able to anchor a defense really. And Kobe was a great defender for a period of time there too. But hey, I've always thought comparing wings to bigs is so hard to do...that's just another big reason why.

Bruno
06-06-2014, 03:50 PM
Pretty much this. I think if they win he'll be potentially top-5 ever on my list. We're doing a PSD top-50 all time thing this summer...and I think Duncan will be one of the more interesting guys voted on.

I will say, I don't think "Kobe can't anchor a defense" isn't entirely fair when comparing him to Duncan. That's mostly just a positional difference. No wing is gonna ever be able to anchor a defense really. And Kobe was a great defender for a period of time there too. But hey, I've always thought comparing wings to bigs is so hard to do...that's just another big reason why.

i know. thats the thing, its totally unfair. but at the end of the day all were left to judge is the impact they leave on the floor and bigs are always at an advantage over wings because of what they can do defensively. peak kobe was an elite all time defender and I do credit him as such.

Jamiecballer
06-06-2014, 04:15 PM
Negligible IMO.

ManRam
06-06-2014, 04:15 PM
i know. thats the thing, its totally unfair. but at the end of the day all were left to judge is the impact they leave on the floor and bigs are always at an advantage over wings because of what they can do defensively. peak kobe was an elite all time defender and I do credit him as such.

Wings, especially modern ones, have a more significant impact offensively, however. Defense is hugely important and often overlooked far too much, but game is dualistic: the two sides of the court are equally as important. I think Kobe was a more significant offensive force in his prime than Duncan, and perhaps that makes up for the defensive impact advantage that bigs inherently have over wings.


It's tough, for sure. For as dissimilar as they are as players (and icons...and really just about everything), I've always felt their unfolding legacies as a spectator were so wildly similar...at least on the court. Duncan never was the transcending star Kobe was, obviously, but little of that had to do with on the court play. I'm really happy I got to see both play throughout their primes. When their careers are finally set in stone I think distinguishing between the two will be akin to splitting hairs.

Bruno
06-06-2014, 04:21 PM
Wings, especially modern ones, have a more significant impact offensively, however. Defense is hugely important and often overlooked far too much, but game is dualistic: the two sides of the court are equally as important. I think Kobe was a more significant offensive force in his prime than Duncan, and perhaps that makes up for the defensive impact advantage that bigs inherently have over wings.
haha, its funny that you and me are having this discussion. i agree that its very close, and yeah I can get behind that so long as the wing of discussion is still a great defender within his own role.


It's tough, for sure. For as dissimilar as they are as players (and icons...and really just about everything), I've always felt their unfolding legacies as a spectator were so wildly similar...at least on the court. Duncan never was the transcending star Kobe was, obviously, but little of that had to do with on the court play. I'm really happy I got to see both play throughout their primes. When their careers are finally set in stone I think distinguishing between the two will be akin to splitting hairs.


kobe and Duncan are most alike in their appreciation for fundamentals, maybe the only same characteristic other than the competitive drive. i do agree with the splitting hairs aspect and think its like that with a lot of the comparisons in the top 10-12. you almost have to reach for reasons to put one player over another. considering the longevity of the two players, it's actually a shame that they've only match up with all the marbles on the line ONCE since 2004. weird.

bucketss
06-06-2014, 04:25 PM
First guy to shoot 90% and have +20 points and +10 rebounds in a finals game since Wilt in 72. Only other guy to do it was Russell in 65. Unfortunately, it probably won't be discussed much. For a 38 year old in those conditions, pretty impressive work.

damn i didn't realize he was 38 wow

Avenged
06-06-2014, 04:32 PM
I'd be more interested in what it would do to Parkers legacy if he gets FMVP

flea
06-06-2014, 04:50 PM
I'd be more interested in what it would do to Parkers legacy if he gets FMVP

Probably nothing, and considering how limited he is that would be quite a feat. Even for the one Finals MVP that Parker did win he wasn't as impactful as Duncan. Again, part of that is position, but a big part is the fact that Parker has never been much defensively.

For some reason, wings seem to get a pass on defense. If they're bad, it's overlooked to a certain degree (Harden). If they're mediocre but have shown good utility at times (Kobe, Lebron) then it's assumed their defense isn't too far behind the offense. But for bigs, unless your free throw stroke is laughable it seems like defense is just kind of glossed over. Even if Duncan was a replacement level offensive player his defense would probably make him a top 5 player of the last 15 years. People don't go around touting that though.

kdspurman
06-06-2014, 05:05 PM
damn i didn't realize he was 38 wow

Yea... almost at 40

JasonJohnHorn
06-06-2014, 07:57 PM
He's already in my top 10. Kobe is not.

There isn't a better power forward in the history of the game. Simply as that.

Lakers + Giants
06-06-2014, 08:27 PM
Top 5 set in stone if he gets FMVP.

KnicksorBust
06-06-2014, 08:27 PM
First guy to shoot 90% and have +20 points and +10 rebounds in a finals game since Wilt in 72. Only other guy to do it was Russell in 65. Unfortunately, it probably won't be discussed much. For a 38 year old in those conditions, pretty impressive work.

It was posted on Sportscenter. I get that 90% of Duncan's career has been understated but this season falls in the 10% that's not. From the tribute videos, to the awards, to the media attention, the Spurs have been given their fair share this season.


MJ, Wilt and KAJ are the only players in NBA history with legitimate arguments over the big fundamental w/ a sixth ring and finals MVP.

Magic, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, Hakeem, Russell. they're all behind Duncan if he racks a finals MVP imo.

Magic and Bird didn't play long enough or play enough defense. Kobe can't anchor a defense. Shaq was a career underachiever who bounced around from team to team for a reason and Hakeem hasn't accomplished as much as Duncan. thats my two cents, Duncan is under appreciated and a lot of players in NBA history are over rated in the all time rankings (Russell, Magic and Bird).

But it wouldn't be his 6th... ??


He's already in my top 10. Kobe is not.

There isn't a better power forward in the history of the game. Simply as that.

:laugh: So you don't value titles and longevity?

Hotone1401
06-06-2014, 08:44 PM
He's already in my top 10. Kobe is not.

There isn't a better power forward in the history of the game. Simply as that.

It's a good thing your opinion means absolutely nothing.

Kyben36
06-06-2014, 08:44 PM
it would do wonders IMO, not many players go out on top like he would, he is still a quality player, ray allen could retire as well post a championship with miami, but he has tarnished his legacy a bit, he isnt the same player, clearly, he doesnt have to be, but still. moving team, all things that are IMO blemishes, Jordon should have retired on top as well, but he wanted to go play in Washington and looked terrible.

papipapsmanny
06-06-2014, 09:53 PM
He's already in my top 10. Kobe is not.

There isn't a better power forward in the history of the game. Simply as that.

I know I'll get killed, but I still say Malone was better. Not Legacy wise, but Malone if you look at his numbers was so damn good. I would at least him him as the better offensive player.... imo

Munkeysuit
06-06-2014, 09:58 PM
Duncan winning 5 rings definitely puts him in the top 10 conversation, I feel like there is no player within the last 10-15 years, that was more than deserving to win the way he has won. The guy is a humble professional, something of a rarity these days and yet his character and demeanor never affects his performance as he's been able to perform at a high level from day 1.
This is coming from a Miami Heat fan, I have nothing but the outmost respect for Tim Duncan and wish him all the best, if we (Miami) end up losing to San Antonio, I would be glad to relinquish the crown to Duncan and the Spurs, they are a class organization and the standard in which the Miami Heat hope to achieve someday soon.

kdspurman
06-07-2014, 09:50 AM
It was posted on Sportscenter. I get that 90% of Duncan's career has been understated but this season falls in the 10% that's not. From the tribute videos, to the awards, to the media attention, the Spurs have been given their fair share this season.


I didn't say anything about his career of this season, I was talking about his Game 1 specifically. It may have been posted on Sportscenter, but in no way is it getting the attention it should because of the Lebron stuff.

I mean, I saw the game being replayed on NBA TV and it said' AC Takes care of Heat in game 1" (that's just an example)

ChicagoFan4Eva
06-07-2014, 11:56 AM
I hate him because he destroys my Bulls whenever we play :( but mad props to that guy. Playing legend. If he wins he is part of top 10? of a very good class of players with multiple championships

ChicagoFan4Eva
06-07-2014, 12:00 PM
Duncan winning 5 rings definitely puts him in the top 10 conversation, I feel like there is no player within the last 10-15 years, that was more than deserving to win the way he has won. The guy is a humble professional, something of a rarity these days and yet his character and demeanor never affects his performance as he's been able to perform at a high level from day 1.
This is coming from a Miami Heat fan, I have nothing but the outmost respect for Tim Duncan and wish him all the best, if we (Miami) end up losing to San Antonio, I would be glad to relinquish the crown to Duncan and the Spurs, they are a class organization and the standard in which the Miami Heat hope to achieve someday soon.

:claps:

Shammyguy3
06-07-2014, 12:55 PM
Right now Duncan's firmly cemented in my top-6 right now (Jordan, Kareem, Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan). If he wins this year and plays pretty darn well (he doesn't have to get finals MVP) then I see no rhyme or reason why he can't be argued for as high as 3rd.

Pablonovi
06-07-2014, 01:25 PM
Here's MY NBA All-Time GOAT TOP 10:
1. KAJ
2. Magic
3. MJ
4. Wilt
5. LeBron
6. Kobe
7. Shaq
8. TD
9. Hakeem
10. Dr. J.

I have a sizeable gap between:
KAJ and Magic-MJ
The Top 4 (including Wilt) and LeBron James

After that, the "gaps" are small indeed; I even tend to change my order for spots 6-9.

Thus, for me at least, TD winning another Chip (and especially another fMVP) would be very important.
I'd move him past Shaq and perhaps in a two-way tie with Kobe for 6th.

P&GRealist
06-07-2014, 02:19 PM
Here's MY NBA All-Time GOAT TOP 10:
1. KAJ
2. Magic
3. MJ
4. Wilt
5. LeBron
6. Kobe
7. Shaq
8. TD
9. Hakeem
10. Dr. J.

I have a sizeable gap between:
KAJ and Magic-MJ
The Top 4 (including Wilt) and LeBron James

After that, the "gaps" are small indeed; I even tend to change my order for spots 6-9.

Thus, for me at least, TD winning another Chip (and especially another fMVP) would be very important.
I'd move him past Shaq and perhaps in a two-way tie with Kobe for 6th.

Id have Timmy ahead of Bron. There is something to be said about head2head finals matchups, and as I firmly believe Spurs will win the chip this time, it'll be Duncan 2, LeBron 1 in head to head matchups. Take into account that while Bron will have twice as many league MVPs, Timmy will have twice as many finals mvps. And 4 finals mvps for Timmy is more than Kareem (2), Kobe (2), LeBron (2), Bird (2), Hakeem (2), Shaq (3) and Magic (3). 4 would be 2nd most in history behind MJ's 6.

Pablonovi
06-07-2014, 02:41 PM
Id have Timmy ahead of Bron. There is something to be said about head2head finals matchups, and as I firmly believe Spurs will win the chip this time, it'll be Duncan 2, LeBron 1 in head to head matchups. Take into account that while Bron will have twice as many league MVPs, Timmy will have twice as many finals mvps. And 4 finals mvps for Timmy is more than Kareem (2), Kobe (2), LeBron (2), Bird (2), Hakeem (2), Shaq (3) and Magic (3). 4 would be 2nd most in history behind MJ's 6.

Hey P&GR,
Most of your points are certainly strong arguments for your point of view.
The one that is "iffy" for me is: addressing face-to-face Finals battles, you are already assuming that TD/Spurs win this year's Chip; so, then TD2>LBJ1.
But, IF the HEAT win it, it will be LBJ2>TD1, right?

So, don't we logically have to wait to see which team wins this year AND if either of these two guys wins the fMVP?

One more thing:
In my All-Time GOAT Top 10, I make a distinction between 2 "Groups" based on PEAK.
I have Magic, Kobe & TD lower than the other guys strictly in terms of PEAK.
I "adjust" (move them upwards vis--vis other guys) because their PRIMES were longer OR they "accomplished" something special, as follows:

1) Magic: best TEAMmate ever (though I think LBJ ends up at the end of his career with this "crown") (3 More Finals than MJ)

2) Kobe & TD: 15 Great Year PRIME is LONGER than everybody else's (in my top 10) except KAJ.

P&GRealist
06-07-2014, 02:48 PM
Hey P&GR,
Most of your points are certainly strong arguments for your point of view.
The one that is "iffy" for me is: addressing face-to-face Finals battles, you are already assuming that TD/Spurs win this year's Chip; so, then TD2>LBJ1.
But, IF the HEAT win it, it will be LBJ2>TD1, right?

So, don't we logically have to wait to see which team wins this year AND if either of these two guys wins the fMVP?

One more thing:
In my All-Time GOAT Top 10, I make a distinction between 2 "Groups" based on PEAK.
I have Magic, Kobe & TD lower than the other guys strictly in terms of PEAK.
I "adjust" (move them upwards vis--vis other guys) because their PRIMES were longer OR they "accomplished" something special, as follows:

1) Magic: best TEAMmate ever (though I think LBJ ends up at the end of his career with this "crown") (3 More Finals than MJ)

2) Kobe & TD: 15 Great Year PRIME is LONGER than everybody else's (in my top 10) except KAJ.

Of course we have to wait and see how things play out, but I'll firmly stick with the Spurs winning this time. There are so many guys that are on that Spurs roster that besides the coach and big 3, haven't ever won a title, while the Heat have 80% of their roster who are already champs. The only guys are Oden, Beasley and Douglas.

Kawhi, DGr33n, Diaw and those boys are HUnGry!

Spurs in 5

kdspurman
06-07-2014, 03:02 PM
Hey P&GR,
Most of your points are certainly strong arguments for your point of view.
The one that is "iffy" for me is: addressing face-to-face Finals battles, you are already assuming that TD/Spurs win this year's Chip; so, then TD2>LBJ1.
But, IF the HEAT win it, it will be LBJ2>TD1, right?

So, don't we logically have to wait to see which team wins this year AND if either of these two guys wins the fMVP?

One more thing:
In my All-Time GOAT Top 10, I make a distinction between 2 "Groups" based on PEAK.
I have Magic, Kobe & TD lower than the other guys strictly in terms of PEAK.
I "adjust" (move them upwards vis--vis other guys) because their PRIMES were longer OR they "accomplished" something special, as follows:

1) Magic: best TEAMmate ever (though I think LBJ ends up at the end of his career with this "crown") (3 More Finals than MJ)

2) Kobe & TD: 15 Great Year PRIME is LONGER than everybody else's (in my top 10) except KAJ.

Curious, what would make you consider LBJ as the best teammate over a guy like TD? I think Magic is a great pic btw overall.

Pablonovi
06-07-2014, 03:11 PM
Curious, what would make you consider LBJ as the best teammate over a guy like TD? I think Magic is a great pic btw overall.

Hey KD,
There's no arguing against TD being a great, even near-perfect, teammate.
It's just that LBJ is actually "running the Point" on offense - thus involving his entire team, 36+ minutes a game; whereas, TD's deep-interior role "automatically" restricts his overall influence on his team's ball-movement and teamwork.

Perhaps to help "enlighten" my own point: Most people (including myself) would say that "the bigger the guy, the more over-all influence he has on the over-all game; that's why most GOAT Top 10s have a pre-ponderance of Bigs, especially Centers. It just "comes with the territory", no?

Pablonovi
06-07-2014, 03:30 PM
Curious, what would make you consider LBJ as the best teammate over a guy like TD? I think Magic is a great pic btw overall.

Hey KD,
Another, perhaps super-clear example.
On my All-Time GOAT TEAMmate Top 5: I've had:
1. Magic
2. Stockton
3. Dr. J
4. Bird
5. Kidd/Nash

Four of the 6 are PGs. (And LBJ, on "O" is still another "PG". I've already addressed this somewhat in my previous post).

Here I focus on just Magic Vs Bird.
I can NOT say that Magic had a better attitude than Bird did; just that he did play a (much) bigger role in making his team go. That's why I have Magic above Bird. (Bird was an awesome teammate).

P&GRealist
06-07-2014, 03:48 PM
Pablonovi,

Dribbling dribbling dribbling and finding wide open 3 pt shooters sipping a cup of coffee and reading the newspaper is great and all, but that doesn't mean that makes you a better teammate than Tim Duncan.


Just cuz Duncan isn't flashy and isn't dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble all the time doesn't mean he isn't getting his teammates involved. The dynasty early 2000s Spurs and sometimes even now, they move the ball with Timmy as the focal point in the post, everything runs through him.


There are different ways to run a team and different ways to get your teammates involved. Just cuz Duncan doesn't flex his muscles after a dunk or pass to a teammate or isn't demonstrative with his expressions and histrionics doesn't make him less of a great teammate.

Shammyguy3
06-07-2014, 03:50 PM
Just checked out Duncan's career on basketball-reference. He's never had a PER below 21 :laugh2: never had a WS/48 below 0.160 ... that's insane (for a 38 year old)

Pablonovi
06-07-2014, 04:40 PM
Pablonovi,

Dribbling dribbling dribbling and finding wide open 3 pt shooters sipping a cup of coffee and reading the newspaper is great and all, but that doesn't mean that makes you a better teammate than Tim Duncan.


Just cuz Duncan isn't flashy and isn't dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble all the time doesn't mean he isn't getting his teammates involved. The dynasty early 2000s Spurs and sometimes even now, they move the ball with Timmy as the focal point in the post, everything runs through him.


There are different ways to run a team and different ways to get your teammates involved. Just cuz Duncan doesn't flex his muscles after a dunk or pass to a teammate or isn't demonstrative with his expressions and histrionics doesn't make him less of a great teammate.

Hey P&GR,
I'm no longer "Pablo"? hehe

For me "dribbling ..." has zero to do with this discussion (which is why I did NOT bring it up).
Generally I've got:
1) Big men more dominating the game than non-big-men (and thus "dominating" my All-Time GOAT Top 10);
but
2) Non big-men more dominating the TEAMwork than big men (and thus "dominating" my All-Time GOAT Top 10 TEAMmate list).

I readily admit this is MY thinking; and that I could be wrong.
"No problemo" (the Terminator mispronouncing "problema")

P.S. I specifically addressed what I think of TD's teamwork in Post #50:
"There's no arguing against TD being a great, even near-perfect, teammate."
I would think that that is crystal clear.

shauneazy
06-07-2014, 05:00 PM
Top 5 if they win.. top 7 if they don't.. and if he were to stick around and win again next year........

Bruno
06-07-2014, 05:07 PM
anyone else agree with JVG and Lowe?

the "greatest PF in league history" title is actually a disservice to Duncans legacy.

he's more than that. he's one of the best big men in league history, including centers.

slashsnake
06-07-2014, 05:20 PM
anyone else agree with JVG and Lowe?

the "greatest PF in league history" title is actually a disservice to Duncans legacy.

he's more than that. he's one of the best big men in league history, including centers.

Its tough. I think 30 years ago he would have gotten to go down as the greatest PF in NBA history. Now he's played the majority of his career at center. Now he isn't the best at a given position ever. He's one of the best big men ever sure, but its easier to put him ahead of Barkley and Malone than it is over Wilt, KAJ, and Shaq.

Also what do you rate being a teammate on? On court passing ability to set others up? Raising the level of practice and striving for perfection from all his teammates like Jordan? Russell inspiring his teammates defensive play?

Pablonovi
06-07-2014, 05:23 PM
anyone else agree with JVG and Lowe?

the "greatest PF in league history" title is actually a disservice to Duncans legacy.

he's more than that. he's one of the best big men in league history, including centers.

Hey Bruno,
I agree with this for a couple of "contradictory" reasons:
1) For ME, he's a natural Center (that's what his play "looks, eye-test-wise" to me);
2) The PF position is universally acknowledged as THE weakest of the 5 positions. Nobody (besides TD) is even seriously considered to be in the NBA All-Time GOAT Top 15. So being ranked at the top of the weakest position IS a disservice.

shauneazy
06-07-2014, 05:26 PM
anyone else agree with JVG and Lowe?

the "greatest PF in league history" title is actually a disservice to Duncans legacy.

he's more than that. he's one of the best big men in league history, including centers.

I don't know if he'd be the greatest big of all time. I think he's definitely up there top 3.. but to say he's better than Kareem, Wilt and MAYBE Shaq as of now - eh.. he's close but that's debatable. However, if he wins this year he'll probably solidify himself up there with Kareem ..