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raiderfaninTX
05-31-2014, 11:51 PM
His stats look great but honestly if anyone watched the playoffs he did not look like the MVP or a top 2 player in the league except for a few flashes.

So the first excuse was that tony allen was just that good. Then he looked off disappearing at times during the clippers series. Lastly pretty much vanished from the spurs series.

So what's the deal is it westbrook, got tired, needs more size, or Scott brooks?

(** I have been very critical of Durant during the playoffs**)

B'sCeltsPatsSox
05-31-2014, 11:52 PM
Through seven years:

LeBron, 2 conference finals appearances, 1 Finals appearance, 2 MVPs

Durant, 3 conference finals appearances, 1 Finals appearance, 1 MVP

If Durant only adds to that conference finals appearances part by the end of his ninth year, then I think it'd be fair to get on his case. And I know that Durant didn't necessarily the best playoffs, but he still was OKC's most consistent player in the playoffs and was one of the best players in the playoffs.


Scott Brooks is holding the Thunder back though.

ManRam
05-31-2014, 11:52 PM
Those two carry such an insane load. That team needs to figure something out at the 2 and the 5 going forward. They're going 3 on 5 far more often than not on the offensive end.

KD's play was definitely a big step below his regular season play (which was uncanny), but I have a hard time putting too much of the blame on him. That team just does not match up well against the versatility, experience and depth of the Spurs, at all.

Red_Pill
05-31-2014, 11:53 PM
He needs more size. When he gets some size, he'll be able to be better in the post, which will completely open up his game.

And Scott Brooks needs to be fired.

ManRam
05-31-2014, 11:55 PM
Through seven years:

LeBron, 2 conference finals appearances, 1 Finals appearance, 2 MVPs

Durant, 3 conference finals appearances, 1 Finals appearance, 1 MVP

If Durant only adds to that conference finals appearances part by the end of his ninth year, then I think it'd be fair to get on his case. And I know that Durant didn't necessarily the best playoffs, but he still was OKC's most consistent player in the playoffs and was one of the best players in the playoffs.


Scott Brooks is holding the Thunder back though.

The comparisons between the two during their first 7 years are such a reach for so many reasons. Nothing about either of their circumstances, for better or worse, are the same at all. Not sure why LeBron's first 7 years (let's not forget how insanely criticized he was) renders KD immune from any sort of criticism.

sens#11fan
05-31-2014, 11:57 PM
De ja Vu, same thing happened with lebron earlier in his career and his first finals with Miami. I think its a mixture of coaching and i agree he and Westy are carrying to much of a load. Its 3 on 5 on offense. That leads to him and westy getting more of the attention.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-01-2014, 12:01 AM
The comparisons between the two during their first 7 years are such a reach for so many reasons. Nothing about either of their circumstances, for better or worse, are the same at all. Not sure why LeBron's first 7 years (let's not forget how insanely criticized he was) renders KD immune from any sort of criticism.

Oh yeah I know there are some differences between the two, but wouldn't say that Durant having the better roster has to make up for them having the clear superior conference? And all of those games the Thunder lost last year to the Grizzlies were only decided by two possessions or less when it was just Durant running the show.

Oh, and the only year LeBron legitimately deserved criticism when he was in Cleveland was in 2010.

ManRam
06-01-2014, 12:05 AM
Oh yeah I know there are some differences between the two, but wouldn't say that Durant having the better roster has to make up for them having the clear superior conference? And all of those games the Thunder lost last year to the Grizzlies were only decided by two possessions or less when it was just Durant running the show.

Oh, and the only year LeBron legitimately deserved criticism when he was in Cleveland was in 2010.

That's why I said "for better or worse".

As always, I'm not campaigning for KD to be criticized for his team's "failures", I'm just hoping people maybe are becoming aware of how hypocritical they are with the criticizing and especially the idiotic "clutch" narratives when they bend over backwards to not even say a single bad thing about KD's play.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-01-2014, 12:06 AM
That's why I said "for better or worse".

As always, I'm not campaigning for KD to be criticized for his team's "failures", I'm just hoping people maybe are becoming aware of how hypocritical they are with the criticizing and especially the idiotic "clutch" narratives when they bend over backwards to not even say a single bad thing about KD's play.

Ah okay. Agree with ya there.

bucketss
06-01-2014, 12:16 AM
he needs to get stronger so they don't throw little guys like tony allen at him.

mngopher35
06-01-2014, 12:23 AM
He will work on his game (hopefully in the post) and come back next year hopefully ready to prove he is #1 in the league. It was a rough post-season for him and disappointing ending though. Just needs to figure out more ways to make an impact on the game and different ways to get in scoring position. I understand why people want him held to the same standards as other stars though so he deserves his fair share of criticism.

Westbrook was a beast though and I think that should be the main topic for OKC. He was amazing for them and if he can improve his decision making will be a top 5 player in the NBA for years to come. He is an athletic freak.

FlashBolt
06-01-2014, 12:39 AM
Westbrook has to go. Scott Brooks has to go.

Kyrie Irving/Varejao for WB, amnesty Perkins, sign Bradley or Deng.
Replace Brooks with George Karl.

Changes need to be made. We're running out of excuses..

Red_Pill
06-01-2014, 01:09 AM
Westbrook has to go. Scott Brooks has to go.

Kyrie Irving/Varejao for WB, amnesty Perkins, sign Bradley or Deng.
Replace Brooks with George Karl.

Changes need to be made. We're running out of excuses..

I wouldn't trade for Irving or Varejao. They are both highly injury prone and we are better off with Westbrook. Shifting things around, perhaps we can try and get someone like Deng or Pau to be a REAL third option.

Also, a more potent bench with three point shooting. A Ryan Anderson/Kyle Korver type of player.

But I agree with you, we need a new coach.

cahawk
06-01-2014, 02:20 AM
KD is great but not Lebron.
Lebron makes his teammates & team better while being very efficient, unselfish & a complete player.
KD is mainly a volume shooter & great scorer but if Lebron takes as many shots he easily outscores KD.

Conference championship games a good example:
Lebron: 12 fga's for 25pts = Win
Durant: 26 fga's for 31pts = Loss

lawrule
06-01-2014, 02:37 AM
The gap between lebron and the rest of the field is appalling.

And the refs are getting even more lenient with lebron. Dude is walking all over the place. He gets at least 2 more steps than any other player in the league.

But seriously, I think KD is about 70% as effective as lebron is. It's like comparing Daryl Dawkins to a ballerina in terms of size and strength.

Shammyguy3
06-01-2014, 02:46 AM
KD is great but not Lebron.
Lebron makes his teammates & team better while being very efficient, unselfish & a complete player.
KD is mainly a volume shooter & great scorer but if Lebron takes as many shots he easily outscores KD.

Conference championship games a good example:
Lebron: 12 fga's for 25pts = Win
Durant: 26 fga's for 31pts = Loss

Lebron 10 fga's for 7pts = Loss (game 5)
Durant: 22 fga's for 31pts = Win (game 5)

one game sample sizes suck. And, you don't think Kevin Durant is efficient? He's one of the most efficient players of all time man.

JayW_1023
06-01-2014, 02:53 AM
He needs a post game badly. He'll be unguardable once he can play with his back to the basket.

Shkelqim
06-01-2014, 02:55 AM
LeBron is on another Planet. Screw the comparisons, Durant needs to be more ball dominant. I just dont think being the second option is good enough to win. LeBron is a PG with SG skills nd SF rebounding, they guy plays easy 4 positions. Durant isnt as versitale yet. Needs to be more creative with his talent, and stop being so ****ing humble. It hurts your team truthfully.

Munkeysuit
06-01-2014, 03:17 AM
Lets be honest for a second...Westbrook, thats whats wrong with KD

r8derguy805
06-01-2014, 03:45 AM
The problem is not KD or Russ. The problem is outside of those 2 you got nothing. Not even a legit 3rd option. And the fact Brooks can't make late game adjustments doesn't help. I am a die hard laker fan and I would take either of these 2 any day. By adding Gasol at the PF position, Ibaka will make up for his weak *** on D. That gives them a legit post threat. Many won't agree but I strongly feel Jodie Meeks is the best option for OKC at the SG position. He is a catch and shoot guy and doesn't need the ball in his hands to be affective and won't be expensive. Now this only works if OKC can get rid of Perkins.

R.Westbrook
J.Meeks or R.Jackson how ever you want it.
K.Durant
P.Gasol
S.Ibaka

Gasol is the key for there advancement.

Bostonjorge
06-01-2014, 03:45 AM
Fisher playing the whole 4th and overtime is what's wrong with KD.

THE MTL
06-01-2014, 05:19 AM
I dont know why you guys are criticizing Westbrook. If NOT for him, the Thunder would have been lost in this game late in the fourth. His clutch free throws and layups and steals is what gave them a chance.

I think Durant choked hard this game. That three at the end should have been hit and I counted 2 other easy buckets he blew.

sammyvine
06-01-2014, 05:20 AM
If they are not careful they will keep coming short and never win a ring

They need a new coach and trade westbrook

torocan
06-01-2014, 09:30 AM
Game 6.

51-5 in favor of Spurs vs OKC bench.

I don't care who you are, if that's all the help you're getting you're being asked to do too much. Did anyone Really expect KD to put up 40 points per game? Would Lebron do much better with that kind of help and that much defensive focus?

Sure, you can get away with just KD, WB, Ibaka and Jackson against a lot of teams... that just isn't going to cut it against the best of the best.

KD wasn't transcendent, but it wasn't like he was a no show either. Give him actual help and we'd be looking at a completely different series.

JJ_JKidd
06-01-2014, 09:41 AM
Ill se this post again next year

FraziersKnicks
06-01-2014, 05:35 PM
I didn't really see any passion, drive or leadership from him, three more reasons why he's not close to LeBron. Westy showed so much more heart than KD all playoffs, KD didn't demand the ball and went missing on numerous occasions.

In an MVP season, KD had the biggest dropoff in PER from regular season to playoffs in NBA history (29.8 down to 23.1) and the 2nd biggest decrease in WS/48 ever (.295 to .165). Westbrook was the best player for the Thunder in the playoffs and KD failed to cap off what could've been an historic season as his played dropped from it's lofty standards he set in the regular season.

beyourself
06-01-2014, 05:41 PM
You just can't count on him to be the team leader if he can't even lead the team in USG%. So all that heart, leadership, etc. talk can be attributed to that. He can't lead the team if he's literally not leading them on the court.

For KD to be basically almost phased out of the offense in overtime is a bad, bad thing. He is a top 3 scorer ever.

Other than that though, he's capable of better. Better luck next year.

KnicksorBust
06-01-2014, 06:01 PM
He needs a real point guard.

CHANGO
06-01-2014, 09:27 PM
Game 6.

51-5 in favor of Spurs vs OKC bench.

I don't care who you are, if that's all the help you're getting you're being asked to do too much. Did anyone Really expect KD to put up 40 points per game? Would Lebron do much better with that kind of help and that much defensive focus?

Sure, you can get away with just KD, WB, Ibaka and Jackson against a lot of teams... that just isn't going to cut it against the best of the best.

KD wasn't transcendent, but it wasn't like he was a no show either. Give him actual help and we'd be looking at a completely different series.

Isn't like the OKC bench had the opportunity to make an impact.

Nick Collison - 2 minutes
Steven Adamns - 12 minutes
Derek Fisher - 33 minutes
Jeremy Lamb - 6 minutes

Between Adams, Fisher and Lamb they only have 8 shots attempted. Durant(25) and Westy(23) shoot 48 shots and Reggie Jackson 16, 64 shots between 3 of those players. We are talking about 78% of the shots of the Thunder taken by three dudes.

They never played like a team, they were an ISO team, you can blame KD, you can blame Westy, you can blame Brooks, but the bottomline is that you can't complain about not having a bench when they don't play like a team.

CHANGO
06-01-2014, 09:28 PM
And I'm very dissapointed with KD in the playoffs not for his stats or the elimination, just for his attitude, he's letting Westbrook to be the man. He is deferring and I don't think he's being a leader.

KnicksorBust
06-01-2014, 09:57 PM
And I'm very dissapointed with KD in the playoffs not for his stats or the elimination, just for his attitude, he's letting Westbrook to be the man. He is deferring and I don't think he's being a leader.

Westbrook could play with MJ and he would still lead the team in shots. One of them has to go and it wont be Durant.

cmellofan15
06-01-2014, 11:38 PM
nothing is up with him. he's just not good enough to win a ring with this team, seems pretty evident :shrug:

beyourself
06-02-2014, 11:13 AM
Westbrook could play with MJ and he would still lead the team in shots. One of them has to go and it wont be Durant.

I don't think he gets it. Westbrook being the PG is the primary ball handler. He can if he chooses so, to shoot whenever he wants because there is only 1 ball and you need the ball to shoot and well since he's the PG he has the ball.

Basic Logic.

Goose17
06-02-2014, 11:24 AM
Nothing happened, people just over hyped him due to his great regular season.

I said it before and I will say it again, KD is the second best player in this league, an elite talent who is only going to get better as he matures, a future hall of famer.

But the gap between KD and Lebron is just as big as it was between MJ and whoever you want to peg as second best back then.

Before people start flaming me, I'm not saying Lebron is on the same level as MJ, I'm not even thinking that, not for a ****ing second. But what I am saying is the gap between Lebron and the rest of the league now is comparable to the gap between MJ and the rest of the league in his prime.


Durant is an elite talent and he will win a few championships before all is said and done.



Oh and it's all about perspective. I mean the Lakers last championship was in 2010, in game 7, the final game of the final series, Kobe shot less than 30% from the field and turned the ball over 4 times. All he did in that game was rebound, make free throws and shoot aggressively (but miss). And yet most people on here will give him ALL of the credit for the Lakers winning that series simply because he's Kobe. Nobody really mentions Metta's defense or Odom being the only guy on that bench that produced, I don't even think anyone else on the Lakers bench scored a single point or grabbed a single rebound in game 7.

If OKC had won the game, people wouldn't be questioning this as much.

IKnowHoops
06-02-2014, 11:53 AM
De ja Vu, same thing happened with lebron earlier in his career and his first finals with Miami. I think its a mixture of coaching and i agree he and Westy are carrying to much of a load. Its 3 on 5 on offense. That leads to him and westy getting more of the attention.


To think, the load that Westy and Durant carry on OKC, Lebron carried by himself in Cleveland.

D-Leethal
06-02-2014, 12:01 PM
I don't think he gets it. Westbrook being the PG is the primary ball handler. He can if he chooses so, to shoot whenever he wants because there is only 1 ball and you need the ball to shoot and well since he's the PG he has the ball.

Basic Logic.

It is true, but you think Kobe lets Westbrook go hyper-chuck mode and relegate him to a bystander? KD has to grow some balls in this relationship too. Westbrook needs to get with it as well, but its kind of pathetic for KD the MVP just to sit back and choose to let Westbrook run the show as a silent bystander.

Sadds The Gr8
06-02-2014, 12:08 PM
just lacks aggressiveness at times. I think he'll get it in a couple years like Lebron did.

beyourself
06-02-2014, 12:23 PM
It is true, but you think Kobe lets Westbrook go hyper-chuck mode and relegate him to a bystander? KD has to grow some balls in this relationship too. Westbrook needs to get with it as well, but its kind of pathetic for KD the MVP just to sit back and choose to let Westbrook run the show as a silent bystander.

Oh yeah I agree that KD should say something to Westbrook behind closed doors to stop going rogue.

Still like I said Westbrook has the ball. If Kobe was a wing player on this team I bet (I know) he would have said something behind closed doors to Westbrook since Kobe for example is a better scorer. It would have been interesting to see though if Kobe was in KD's shoes would Westbrook actually give a crap on the floor though? At the end of the day words can't stop him from going rogue.

I also hated KD's public endorsement of Westbrook's style of play during his MVP speech.

Stinkyoutsider
06-02-2014, 01:09 PM
I really think that KD needs to get angry. He needs to demand that Westbrook defers to him and he needs to put more of his own imprint onto the team. OKC seems like it's Westbrook's team and this should change because I think KD can improve his game and carry this team.

Needs to improve his mental game for sure this offseason. He turns the ball over more than I would suspect and looks kind of hurried sometimes. Like, if he doesn't force his shot, he may lose the opportunity to get the ball back.

I know Westbrook has that alpha type personality but KD has to take this team over fully. Westbrook needs to realize that Durant is just as good as he is and they need to move the ball more.

This offseason, Durant has to figure out that it's not about him catching Lebron. It's about dominating the league in your own way and it starts by completely taking over his team. If Westbrook isn't with that program, he's got to go if I'm KD.

From a coaching perspective, Brooks isn't working out. They need a new voice in the locker room. Possibly a coach who will let KD and Westbrook figure out their partnership themselves. The Thunder also need to improve the squad. I like the shot blocking Adams gives them and could swap him and Perkins in the lineup. To be honest, he probably can give you everything Perkins can plus block shots at a high rate.

Goose17
06-02-2014, 01:09 PM
People are quick to blame Westbrook. He's not doing anything different from what other "stars" have done in the past and been praised for.

Would OKC have made it this far if you replace Westbrook with say... Mike Conley? Interesting thought.

Personally I think KD is better with Westbrook and vice versa.