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View Full Version : NBA Alltime Redraft Conf. Finals (1) Los Santos vs (3) Rochestor



Matter.
05-29-2014, 11:47 AM
Hello Everyone. Welcome to the NBA All-time redraft playoffs. These will be a battle between two made up teams from our host of GMs in to see who reigns superiority over all of basketball. Please read the write-ups and vote for who you think would win in a 7 game series.

Los Santos has home court.

Los Santos
PG- Jason Kidd/Sam Cassell
SG- Ray Allen/World B. Free/Otis Birdsong
SF- Ron Artest/Paul Arizin/Antoine Walker
PF- Cliff Robinson/Charles Oakley/Antoine Walker
C- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar/Al Jefferson

Vs

Rochestor
PG: Tim Hardaway - Maurice Cheeks
SG: Sidney Moncrief - Richard Hamilton
SF: Chris Mullin - Rashard Lewis - Gus Johnson
PF: Karl Malone - Tom Chambers
C: Bill Walton - Shawn Bradley - Manute Bol

Los Santos write up

Congrats to Killerjug, Lucky, and Jets to making it all the way to the conference finals, But it ends here. Sorry guys

Defensive Philosphy

Tim Hardaway posses one best crossovers ever. He can also score, pass and defend really well also, Almost like a clone of Jason Kidd. However unlike Kidd, Hardaway has never won a championship and that may hurt this team in these games. Hardaway shot around 43% for his career and with Kidd being one of the best defenders ever as a point guard should be able to slow down Hardaway and cause him to turn the ball over more than he is use to. (Averaged 2.9 Turnovers per game on his career) I also want to point out who is Hardaway going to pass the ball to? Moncrief is being guarded by Ray Allen, and Chris Mullin is being guarded by Ron Artest. I plan on having both Allen and Artest deny Mullin and Moncrief the ball. Then he has two options down low in Karl Malone and Bill Walton. Karl Malone might be there best chance at scoring because he is guarded by Clifford Robinson and Charles Oakley all Game long. Yes Robinson isnt a shutdown defender but he can still pressure Malone into missing some shots and as for Walton being an offensive threat against Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Well, Umm Good Luck with that, Here are some head to head matchups in scoring, Kareem 50 points, Walton 7 points. Kareem 48 points Walton 12 points. Kareem 39 points, Walton 11 points. 35 points, Walton 16 points. Career wise in the regular season Kareem outscored Walton in head to match-ups by 9 points, (Kareem averaged 24.4 PPG, Walton averaged 15.3 PPG) And in the playoffs when everything matters most Kareem dominated Walton even more outscoring Walton 26.1 PPG to 9.2 PPG and there were a few times were Walton put up a big fat doughnut against Kareem in the playoffs. In Otherwords, Kareem wont have any trouble defending against Bill Walton.

Offensive Philosphy

As stated earlier between the match-up of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bill Walton, We try to get Kareem the most touches in this series because Kareem will destroy Walton 1 on 1. When Rochestor decides to double team or even triple team Kareem more than likely they will send Malone and Mullins on that assignment, but there will be a problem with this is he is leaving 2 people wide open to shoot, 1 is Cliff Robinson the other is Ron Artest, If you leave one of these guys wide open like that they will make the shot more often than not, 3 pointers are what can really kill a team, and both of these guys being left open can hit it. As for Ray Allen and Sidney Moncrief thats a tough one, Allen can drain the 3 all day long until your blue in the face, and Moncrief one of the best steals guys ever, and Moncrief got most of his points of steals as well. Ray Allen only turns over the ball roughly 2 times a game and usually in the NBA a good offense beats a good defense

In The End Los Santos should win this series in 6 games max. Los Santos compared to Rochester is loaded with Championship Rings and knows how to get the job done in crunch time, You cant say the same for Karl Malone who always happen to choke right at the final series before the NBA Finals or in the crucial moments of an NBA Finals game.

todu82
05-29-2014, 12:14 PM
Rochester

Shammyguy3
05-29-2014, 12:19 PM
Leaning Rochestor

KnicksorBust
05-29-2014, 12:19 PM
What's worse: having no writeup or having a bad one?

KnicksorBust
05-29-2014, 12:30 PM
I also want to point out who is Hardaway going to pass the ball to?

Yeah he only has the 2nd leading scorer in NBA History in Karl Malone. Oh and Moncrief for 20ppg, Mullin for 25ppg and elite 3pt shooting and Bill Walton for 18ppg. I think he'll be fine?


I plan on having both Allen and Artest deny Mullin and Moncrief the ball.

I take it back. I didn't know you were employing this brilliant strategy.


In Otherwords, Kareem wont have any trouble defending against Bill Walton.

This is an interesting sticking point of the series. I agree with you when you bring up Kidd, Artest, Cliff, Oak as good defenders and Kareem fits right with them. The problem is those head to heads. There's also no recorded rebounds/assists/blocks/fg% numbers to compare. When Walton was healthy at his peak the scoring numbers were a lot closer than you make it seem but we still don't know the whole story.


As stated earlier between the match-up of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bill Walton, We try to get Kareem the most touches in this series because Kareem will destroy Walton 1 on 1.

Walton was a 2x member of 1st Team All-NBA Defense...



In The End Los Santos should win this series in 6 games max. Los Santos compared to Rochester is loaded with Championship Rings and knows how to get the job done in crunch time, You cant say the same for Karl Malone who always happen to choke right at the final series before the NBA Finals or in the crucial moments of an NBA Finals game.

Tough to dispute. I knew this would haunt Rochester later in the game.

Two very well constructed teams. Post-play, ball-handling, shooting, and defense. That's how it's done.

Raps18-19 Champ
05-29-2014, 12:45 PM
What's worse: having no writeup or having a bad one?

:laugh2:

Killerjug
05-29-2014, 01:02 PM
Hopefully will be able to get to a computer at some point to get some main points across

kobe4thewinbang
05-29-2014, 01:14 PM
I am looking forward to the other team's write-up, but I still see Los Santos winning the series, especially with home court. They just have better players, IMO. J-Kidd, Kareem, Ray Allen's daggers, and good defense. I would consider it an upset if Rochestor won. I'm thinking 5 games.

xxplayerxx23
05-29-2014, 01:40 PM
Rochester beat the best team in the conference :p yes I'm still bitter as hell but gotta go with them
Love the matchup. They win in 6 IMO

alexander_37
05-29-2014, 03:40 PM
Rochester is much much deeper.

Jets012
05-29-2014, 03:56 PM
Don't have much time, but I want to bring up some quick points:

To Start Off: For those of you that voted for Des Plaines to beat Los Santos, how could you not vote for Rochester in this match-up? Tim Duncan is better than Karl Malone, but overall we have the better front court with Bill Walton as a much better center than Mutombo, and still an all-time great PF in Karl Malone. Our PG, Tim Hardaway, is essentially a poor mans Allen Iverson. We have a very good defender (Moncrief) to put on Ray Allen, their only efficient and dependable perimeter offensive player. We also feel we have better overall depth than what Des Plaines had. So, for those of you that originally voted against Los Santos, how could you not vote against them now?

I really want to highlight that point in particularly. Everyone has said that this Los Santos team Achilles' heel is the lack of efficient perimeter shooters outside of Allen. While Allen is one of the best shooters of all-time, if not the best, he's going up against Moncrief who MIGHT just be one of the best perimeter defenders of all time. Since the DPOY award was created, 32 different players have won it. 4 have been guards with Moncrief being the only one to win multiple ones. Will Moncrief shut down Ray Ray, probably not, but would he limit him and make him work for every shot and give him low percentage looks? Without a doubt, he would.

For those of you who think Kidd is a massive upgrade over Hardaway, I have a few stats:

Career Ast %
Kidd - 38.5%
Hardaway - 37.9%

Career TO%
Kidd - 18.8%
Hardaway - 14.6%

Kidd's a terrific distributor, but as you can see, Hardaway can hold his own. Difference is their abilities to create for themselves and score, which Hardaway has a clear advantage. If you thought Iverson would make Kidd work, expect Hardaway to give Kidd all he can handle. You would expect to see tons of screens and pick and rolls to wear down Kidd.

Main difference in the match is efficiency. Kareem is obviously their #1 option. Ray Allen is their #2. Kareem is obviously going to play really well, but Walton is no slouch on defense. We just feel that Moncrief will really be able to limit Allen's production, thus making Los Santos rely on Artest/Robinson/Kidd to carry the load. All 3 are great players, but we feel that in an All-Time RD none of them are efficient enough to carry the load and keep up with our starting lineup which features 5 unselfish guys who all have the capability to put up 20.

The_Jamal
05-29-2014, 04:00 PM
Sheesh. Los Santos write-up is god awful. So much bad information.

leaning rochester

Corey
05-29-2014, 04:05 PM
I like Los Santos better. I dont agree that Rochester has better depth :shrug:

killthesux
05-29-2014, 05:03 PM
You guys can say that Malone would destroy Robinson but how many times has he choked right at the end of the game in meaningful games in playoffs? A bunch he has never won a ring and everyone on Los Santos has tons of playoff and championship experience compared to Rochester, Los Santos knows how to get the job done

Shammyguy3
05-29-2014, 05:53 PM
Sheesh. Los Santos write-up is god awful. So much bad information.

leaning rochester

yeah that was a terrible write-up, i stopped reading half way through because i want to see if KTS can make up for it in any debate

killthesux
05-29-2014, 06:03 PM
yeah that was a terrible write-up, i stopped reading half way through because i want to see if KTS can make up for it in any debate

Im not very good a doing write ups, I hate doing them

Sadds The Gr8
05-29-2014, 08:16 PM
Looool at that writeup. I think Rochester in 5

Kaner
05-30-2014, 01:55 AM
I think Los Santos is overrated. After Ray Allen who's guarded by a dpoy in Moncrief, and Kareem guarded by an all-time great center in Walton, nobody else on Los Santos's squad can score the ball at a decent efficiency.


The biggest problems looking at Rochester is they have Mullin and Hardaway both starting and both of them are weak defenders that could be huge mismatches potentially but if they are guarding Kidd and Artest, who both again are ineffective scorers with career ts% ~50%, I think they'll do fine especially with Walton and Malone to sure up the paint if they attack the basket. Offensively it's not even close between the two teams everyone on Rochester's starting 5 is stupidly efficient and a good passer.

Ebbs
05-30-2014, 02:02 AM
See Los Santos getting massacred for a ****** write up lol.

I just don't get the Kidd Hardaway comparison. Don't see it at all, how are they similar?

The_Jamal
05-30-2014, 03:39 AM
Los Santos depends heavily on how you perceive Artest and Kidd as offensive scorers in this series. Allen, for all intensive purporses, is getting locked out by an all-time great perimeter defender. Probably the Best SG defender ever. And while KAJ is certainly a big advantage in any match-up, I don't see him running over Walton either. Both are similiar in their play styles of being extremely skilled.

Malone on Cliff is the biggest mismatch in the series by far. I don't care about Malone supposed "choking" in the playoffs in this case. When you're that much better of a player, talent wins supreme.

Rochester takes this in 6 and heads to the finals.

Turtle55
05-30-2014, 09:43 AM
Rochester

Greet
05-30-2014, 01:50 PM
Los Santos depends heavily on how you perceive Artest and Kidd as offensive scorers in this series. Allen, for all intensive purporses, is getting locked out by an all-time great perimeter defender. Probably the Best SG defender ever. And while KAJ is certainly a big advantage in any match-up, I don't see him running over Walton either. Both are similiar in their play styles of being extremely skilled.

Malone on Cliff is the biggest mismatch in the series by far. I don't care about Malone supposed "choking" in the playoffs in this case. When you're that much better of a player, talent wins supreme.

Rochester takes this in 6 and heads to the finals.

I just don't agree with this. Jason Kidd is an all-time great point guard and he's arguably one of the best at running an efficient offense. Ray Allen would get his shots.... But I do agree it has to do a lot with the perception of Kidd and Artest, are we considering them the decent 3-pt shooters that they developed into later in their careers or not?

But lets not forget that in their primes, Kidd and Artest are both ELITE defenders and Allen wasn't too bad himself. Los Santos defense is scary good and if we consider Kidd and Artest as the decent 3-pt shooters they eventually developed into.... Los Santos wins this series easily.

Greet
05-30-2014, 02:08 PM
Career Ast %[/B]
Kidd - 38.5%
Hardaway - 37.9%

Career TO%
Kidd - 18.8%
Hardaway - 14.6%


People are also forgetting two big things: Jason Kidd was a very physical point guard, during his prime he might not have been that great of a shooter but when he had a smaller guard on him (Like Hardaway), he was very good in the post. AND Jason Kidd was an ELITE rebounding guard while Hardaway was average/below average. Jason Kidd still holds the 3rd spot in the league for all time triple doubles with 107 in the regular season and he's 2nd all time in playoff triple doubles with 11.

I seriously believe that this match-up is the most glaring difference in the whole series and it's a HUGE advantage towards Los Santos.

Jason Kidd also played for 6 more seasons than Hardaway and over 100 more playoff games than Hardaway.... This is the playoffs after all and Hardaway was not a very good player in the playoffs.

Playoff WS/48
Hardaway - .069
Kidd - .144

Kidd has much more experience than Hardaway on this stage.

Kaner
05-30-2014, 02:08 PM
I just don't agree with this. Jason Kidd is an all-time great point guard and he's arguably one of the best at running an efficient offense. Ray Allen would get his shots.... But I do agree it has to do a lot with the perception of Kidd and Artest, are we considering them the decent 3-pt shooters that they developed into later in their careers or not?

But lets not forget that in their primes, Kidd and Artest are both ELITE defenders and Allen wasn't too bad himself. Los Santos defense is scary good and if we consider Kidd and Artest as the decent 3-pt shooters they eventually developed into.... Los Santos wins this series easily.

This is a total misconception about Kidd, he wasn't on a team that was top 10 in offensive efficiency until 2010 with Dallas when he was a role-player. Most of those Nets teams were top 5 defensively and then average on offense that's surprising considering he had alot of offensive weapons on those teams.

Also you don't get to nit pick these guys abilities for their career, Jason Kidd was a poor 3pt shooter for his prime and didn't pass 40% from downtown until 2009. You can either get the elite defender and all around player of his prime or you can get the 3-d player on Dallas that was much slower on defense. Artest never passed 40% from range and you don't get the 2003 dpoy and the Sacramento and Houston 3pt shooter when he was decent from there.

Kaner
05-30-2014, 02:19 PM
People are also forgetting two big things: Jason Kidd was a very physical point guard, during his prime he might not have been that great of a shooter but when he had a smaller guard on him (Like Hardaway), he was very good in the post. AND Jason Kidd was an ELITE rebounding guard while Hardaway was average/below average. Jason Kidd still holds the 3rd spot in the league for all time triple doubles with 107 in the regular season and he's 2nd all time in playoff triple doubles with 11.

I seriously believe that this match-up is the most glaring difference in the whole series and it's a HUGE advantage towards Los Santos.

Jason Kidd also played for 6 more seasons than Hardaway and over 100 more playoff games than Hardaway.... This is the playoffs after all and Hardaway was not a very good player in the playoffs.

Playoff WS/48
Hardaway - .069
Kidd - .144

Kidd has much more experience than Hardaway on this stage.

This isn't a matchup we need to do alot of guessing on they both played each other in their primes.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=kiddja01&p2=hardati01

take out the last 5 games when Hardaway was a role player and the game he got injured and Hardaway goes backup too about 20/10 against Kidd. Also notice Jason Kidd's fg% in the series 34% is terrible. Having a pg who's that inefficient is going to hurt alot on a team who again really doesn't have a lot of offensive weapons after Allen and Kareem.