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View Full Version : Clippers are not worth $2.5 billion dollars. HELLO



Sssmush
05-28-2014, 04:46 PM
Ha Ha, first of all.... it's the Clippers. OK? So, it's in LA, big deal. The league could easily just drop another franchise into LA (or Orange County, or South County, or San Diego, or whatever). Are reporters ACTUALLY believing that the Clippers, whose brand name is total **** and who have been the icons of basketball mediocrity for 30 years, are worth five times the Milwaukee Bucks or the Seattle Supersonics? If an "NBA franchise" could be sold for $2.5 billion dollars, the league would simply sell two or three of them and split the money amongst all the owners and everybody would make their nut for the next ten years.

It's RIDICULOUS and the only reason these kind of numbers can even be mentioned is because the Clippers are in Los Angeles. However, anybody from LA can tell you that the Clippers have been like a tick embedded in the side of Los Angeles for decades; nobody to speak of likes the Clippers, they have no fans, and in fact they generally make basketball fans feel worse about their sport. The Clippers have pooped on the NBA for thirty years and given virtually nothing back to the sport, and now we are just beginning to see how intractable and unfixable this situation actually is.

It is so bad that, I would almost suggest that since Lebron and all these superstar guys can opt out, there is actually a window for somebody to start a new, scaled down, "superstars" pro basketball league. 10 teams. 30 games each, plus playoffs. That gives you 150 games of Lebron vs Carmelo vs Kobe vs Westbrook, easily enough to get a really solid nightly share. The bulk of viewers watch < 1 game a day, and most just watch the best game and don't care about cities. Also, the bulk of all the money is in TV revenue and advertising, as well as shoe contracts etc. Damon Lillard, for instance, just signed a $200 million dollar Nike endorsement, but meanwhile he is making $5 million a year on a franchise that people are now saying could be worth $2.5 billion dollars.

In other words, the Lebrons and Durants and Lillards of the world are being asked to work for tens of millions but to drag the ownership vehicles of the owners forward into the future of trillion dollar league valuations with the sweat of their brow. And meanwhile you have asshat owners like Sterling who do nothing but suck value from the league. Seriously... basketball is not an expensive sport, and most of these team names and traditions don't add up to jack squat. Owners whine because their franchises eat **** when a single superstar like Lebron leaves in free agency, and even winning the lotto three times in a row they still lose money. It would be quite easy, all things considered, to simply ramp up a new TV only league. For us, by us type of thing. All you'd need is some of the superstar talent. And HELLO because of the crap CBA, none of these guys are locked into lifetime contracts anymore. Virtually the entire superstar population of the NBA could opt out within 3 years.

Just to get back to the main point: Sterling's lawyers are driving up the valuation of the team for obvious reasons. Here's what you're going to see: "The Clippers are worth $3.7 BILLION DOLLARS!!" blah blah blah. Then the Clippers get sold for $750 million or whatever. THEN Sterling's lawyers sue the NBA for ($3.7 billion) - ($750 million) + (court costs) + (emotional damages).

Seriously, if the league is going to pay out $2 billion in damages to drag itself out of the pre-civil rights era, why not just start a new league? Somebody serious please tell me I am wrong. Lebron could singlehandedly **** the league out of $2 billion dollars if he wanted to. The only fix I see is to add a new wrinkle to the CBA which allows teams to offer up to a 5% ownership stake in a franchise to superstar players, which would not count against the "salary cap" (seriously I can't even say the word "salary cap" with a straight face anymore). Over time this would lead to an increase in player ownership and would tie the transcendent superstar players, who are becoming far more valuable than the teams, to the league.

grandsalami
05-28-2014, 04:55 PM
wut

goingfor28
05-28-2014, 04:57 PM
Hi

Pierzynski4Prez
05-28-2014, 04:59 PM
Clippers are worth what someone is willing to pay for them. Just like any other good or service.

Bruno
05-28-2014, 05:02 PM
Clippers are worth what someone is willing to pay for them. Just like any other good or service.

'merica.

grandsalami
05-28-2014, 05:03 PM
hi

hola!

d00d
05-28-2014, 05:07 PM
thread of the year

Jetsguy
05-28-2014, 05:08 PM
Sssmush, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

allday823
05-28-2014, 05:19 PM
Sssmush, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Billy Madison lmao that was on tv earlier

still1ballin
05-28-2014, 05:20 PM
wat?

jerellh528
05-28-2014, 05:31 PM
Sssmush, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Haha great line, good movie!

Cracka2HI!
05-28-2014, 05:36 PM
He mad!

Crackadalic
05-28-2014, 05:50 PM
Clippers are worth what someone is willing to pay for them. Just like any other good or service.

It's like people don't actually think when it comes to stuff like this. Think like a business man and you will know why people pay x amount for certain things for short term and long term

Bigbadmoffo
05-28-2014, 05:51 PM
By your logic Walmart employees should be making 100 times more if not a 1000.... Who cares if Lebron makes the fans come down because if he didn't the next guy would. The owners are owners because they chose a different path to success. Why should some guy who played a sport he loves his entire life and makes millions doing it lol I'm suppose to feel bad for him because he sweats? I hate when people say why should I make less then my boss or the owner if I work harder. If you wanna make more then them go start your own company and stop being the employee.

chi-townlove1
05-28-2014, 06:15 PM
Honestly as messed up as your entire post was I actually agree with you on some of the major points. Bottom line is these costs of teams and players are getting wayyy out of hand and it's destroying the league.

Sssmush
05-28-2014, 06:21 PM
Sssmush, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

break it down, beeoch. You got some counterpoints, bring it. What's up with the na-na-nanana nonsense yo

Sssmush
05-28-2014, 06:25 PM
Honestly as messed up as your entire post was I actually agree with you on some of the major points. Bottom line is these costs of teams and players are getting wayyy out of hand and it's destroying the league.

yeah, I mean it's creating a top heavy league that's out of balance with itself.

Ultimately, I mean a team like the freakin' Pelicans or Bobcats... what is it? They just roll the balls out and cut checks to their players and collect their cut of league revenues. Which is fine... but when you want to say these teams are worth BILLIONS of dollars (Sterling's lawyers and many media people are now saying Clippers worth upwards of $2.5 billion) then we are getting into crazy town NBA giant bubble territory.

Just consider that Damon Lillard signed a shoe contract last week which is worth about double of the Cleveland Cavaliers' entire payroll.... while meanwhile the worst owner in the league is saying his team is worth $2.5 billion dollars and many in the media actually agree with him. How can that possibly make sense? Yet that is what is happening. I am not making any of this up, anybody can go check the numbers.

Sssmush
05-28-2014, 06:29 PM
It's like people don't actually think when it comes to stuff like this. Think like a business man and you will know why people pay x amount for certain things for short term and long term

Ha Ha. People are paying for LEBRON. People tune in to see LEBRON. It's all about Lebron going head to head with Westbrook or whatever.

Nobody is paying to see some shirts that say "Heat" or "Pelicans" on them. Nobody gives a **** about that LoL.

They could play naked they would probably get even higher ratings. They could show up at press conferences with strippers on leashes and they'd double their views/money.

You could have a gay NBA superstar making a sex-tape next week. *Boom* How bout that? Press conference, reality show, sex tape, billion dollar apparel contract. **** you 1950s

Teeboy1487
05-28-2014, 06:32 PM
Tittays.

Deutsch Konig
05-28-2014, 06:37 PM
I don't know how to put this....but...the Clippers are kind of a big deal........people want them

PurpleLynch
05-28-2014, 06:38 PM
...We can't stop here! This is bat country!

CityofTreez
05-28-2014, 06:54 PM
Ha Ha. People are paying for LEBRON. People tune in to see LEBRON. It's all about Lebron going head to head with Westbrook or whatever.

Nobody is paying to see some shirts that say "Heat" or "Pelicans" on them. Nobody gives a **** about that LoL.

They could play naked they would probably get even higher ratings. They could show up at press conferences with strippers on leashes and they'd double their views/money.

You could have a gay NBA superstar making a sex-tape next week. *Boom* How bout that? Press conference, reality show, sex tape, billion dollar apparel contract. **** you 1950s

People are paying to see Blake Griffin & Chris Paul.....even Jack proved that this postseason.

Sounds like ssmush is pissed hat the Clip show is running LA recently.

joeyc77
05-28-2014, 07:06 PM
Ha Ha. People are paying for LEBRON. People tune in to see LEBRON. It's all about Lebron going head to head with Westbrook or whatever.

Nobody is paying to see some shirts that say "Heat" or "Pelicans" on them. Nobody gives a **** about that LoL.

They could play naked they would probably get even higher ratings. They could show up at press conferences with strippers on leashes and they'd double their views/money.

You could have a gay NBA superstar making a sex-tape next week. *Boom* How bout that? Press conference, reality show, sex tape, billion dollar apparel contract. **** you 1950s

But the ONLY reason Lebron exists is because of people who invested their money to own an NBA franchise. If those owners don't invest, there isn't a league for Lebron to dominate and in fact he is a probably a different person entirely.

If Lebron wants to invest his own money and start a league with other players they are more the welcome. The owners provide the players with an outlet for their talent not vice versa.

Deutsch Konig
05-28-2014, 07:14 PM
I don't know how to put this....but...the Clippers are kind of a big deal........people want them

NYJ - NYY
05-28-2014, 07:16 PM
Sssmush, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

I'd like to double Tap this message please and thanks.

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 01:49 AM
I don't know how to put this....but...the Clippers are kind of a big deal........people want them

Jeezus, you mean people want them GONE. LoL if the league could pay $300M cash tomorrow and make the Clippers disappear, then hold an open auction for a new franchise (or two), anywhere you want (Vegas, LA, Seattle) they would do that in a second.

People see the possibilities because the Clippers are obviously something that could be turned around. But actually, whoever buys them would do well to change the team name anyway. So what is the difference between a new franchise awarded to LA and the Clippers? Nothing. Their star players are only signed for 3 years more, so big whoop. If an investment group is going to pay $2 billion dollars for the Clippers because Blake and CP3 play for them then they are idiots.

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 01:58 AM
People are paying to see Blake Griffin & Chris Paul.....even Jack proved that this postseason.

Sounds like ssmush is pissed hat the Clip show is running LA recently.

Uh, yeah, the Clippers are "running LA." Sure, right. Awesome job Clippers.

Clippers have never been past second round of playoffs... never. And they are the biggest embarassment to the league right now, possibly in its history.

The Clippers... what a joke. They've always been a joke. For years I felt obliged to point out to bandwagoner Clipper fans that this was not a team you want to be a "fan" of, but no, hey "blah blah blah the Clippers are awesome."

LoL, really? The Clippers are awesome? Uh... Ok....you're absolutely right. :shrug:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXk5ru5gJQM

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 02:06 AM
the Clip show is running LA recently.

Yeah.... sorry but... wow, I almost feel like that is sig worthy. YES!!! You are absolutely right, the Clippers ARE running LA recently.

The Clippers are freakin' prodigies. Perhaps we could say they are the greatest franchise in the history of professional sports. Yankees, Montreal Canadiens, Patriots, Lakers, Manchester United... I'd say we gotta put the Clippers ahead of all of them.

Ok I've changed my mind on this. $2.5 billion dollars isn't even enough for the Clippers. They are such a magnificent franchise, perhaps we should be thinking about double or triple that amount. I'm talking $5 billion dollars at an absolute MINIMUM, and that is before the serious bidding even gets going.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXk5ru5gJQM

Also, while Sterling is suing everybody, maybe the players union can get a class action lawsuit going because, uh, team finances and valuations seem to have been ridiculously misrepresented while negotiating the current CBA.

goingfor28
05-29-2014, 02:10 AM
Someone is a butt hurt flaker fan

Clippersfan86
05-29-2014, 02:26 AM
The 2.5 billion number is Sterling trying to leverage a sale and offset the MASSIVE 700 million dollar tax bill or whatever he will automatically be forced to pay when the team is sold. That being said, the evaluation isn't as high as some are acting like. There is already a bidder offering 2 billion according to sources and remember all these guys in the bidding war are INSANELY rich. As in 20-60 billion rich each (or in the case of say Grant Hill's ownership, collectively that rich).

So the final figure will likely be around 1.5- 2 billion.

Clippersfan86
05-29-2014, 02:28 AM
Jeezus, you mean people want them GONE. LoL if the league could pay $300M cash tomorrow and make the Clippers disappear, then hold an open auction for a new franchise (or two), anywhere you want (Vegas, LA, Seattle) they would do that in a second.

People see the possibilities because the Clippers are obviously something that could be turned around. But actually, whoever buys them would do well to change the team name anyway. So what is the difference between a new franchise awarded to LA and the Clippers? Nothing. Their star players are only signed for 3 years more, so big whoop. If an investment group is going to pay $2 billion dollars for the Clippers because Blake and CP3 play for them then they are idiots.

Actually last year was the first year of CP3's and Blake's new 5 year deals, so 4 more years left with them. That's as long as any current duo of NBA stars.

Asik's better
05-29-2014, 02:29 AM
It's worth whatever someone wants to buy it for. That's how business has always worked. Its just like when Facebook decided a product that isn't for sale yet is worth 2 billion dollars. Whatever the market decides is what the product or company is worth. Business 101.

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 02:29 AM
Someone is a butt hurt flaker fan

Uh, really?

Yeah, maybe you're right, maybe I am just jealous of all the awesome positive media attention the Clippers have been getting lately. Their awesome ownership team... what positive role models they are... their overrated ex-Boston Celtic coach... their overrated point guard with the cool commercials who fumbled away the final two games of the OKC series in UNBELIEVABLE fashion...

wow, I'm not sure if I should be more jealous of the Clippers EPIC playoff run this year, or all of the awesome news and headlines they are making.

Yeah, sometimes at night I'm just like "why, why, why? Why am I a Laker fan? Why didn't I get on the Clipper bandwagon when I had a chance? I could've got in on the ground floor and right now I could be telling people I've been a Clipper fan for life."

Clippersfan86
05-29-2014, 02:31 AM
Lolz.

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 02:33 AM
It's worth whatever someone wants to buy it for. That's how business has always worked. Its just like when Facebook decided a product that isn't for sale yet is worth 2 billion dollars. Whatever the market decides is what the product or company is worth. Business 101.

It's THE CLIPPERS.

What can't you understand? People are acting like it's the New York Yankees or something. Whoever buys the team will probably change the name to the Wolverines or the Godzillas or something. The Clippers are a joke. Most people don't even realize that Clippers are sailboats, they probably think they are like scissors or coupon books or something.

goingfor28
05-29-2014, 02:33 AM
Uh, really?

Yeah, maybe you're right, maybe I am just jealous of all the awesome positive media attention the Clippers have been getting lately. Their awesome ownership team... what positive role models they are... their overrated ex-Boston Celtic coach... their overrated point guard with the cool commercials who fumbled away the final two games of the OKC series in UNBELIEVABLE fashion...

wow, I'm not sure if I should be more jealous of the Clippers EPIC playoff run this year, or all of the awesome news and headlines they are making.

Yeah, sometimes at night I'm just like "why, why, why? Why am I a Laker fan? Why didn't I get on the Clipper bandwagon when I had a chance? I could've got in on the ground floor and right now I could be telling people I've been a Clipper fan for life."

The way you're talking about them it's blatantly obvious. When the team sucked I guarantee you never said this kind of stuff. Not just you personally, but all the laker fans who now bash the clippers for their recent success after forever being the doormat of professional sports.

I applaud your devoted effort though.

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 02:36 AM
Actually last year was the first year of CP3's and Blake's new 5 year deals, so 4 more years left with them. That's as long as any current duo of NBA stars.

uh, if a contract to pay CP3 and Griffin $40m a year for 4 years makes your team worth $2.5 billion dollars then those guys seriously need to renegotiate.

You do understand that a billion is a thousand million, right?

Just what exactly is "the Clippers" besides an NBA license and an Excel spreadsheet and a bunch of bad publicity? They don't even have a stadium.

Clippersfan86
05-29-2014, 02:38 AM
Hahahahahaha. Poor Sssmush.

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 02:41 AM
The way you're talking about them it's blatantly obvious. When the team sucked I guarantee you never said this kind of stuff. Not just you personally, but all the laker fans who now bash the clippers for their recent success after forever being the doormat of professional sports.

I applaud your devoted effort though.

are you joking? I've made fun of the Clippers as long as they've been in LA. You're obviously not from LA or you'd realize what a longstanding joke that team is. And not a good, lovable, loyal joke like the Knicks, but a complete forgotten about worthless kind of joke.

Like seriously, back when there was local TV news, they'd show Laker highlights, then every team highlights, then hocky, baseball, boxing, track and field... and then wouldn't even show the Clipper highlights. Seriously, I'm not joking. Ask anyone from LA.

And when Clippers got to the playoffs I've rooted for them, I like to see LA teams do well so if they get past 1st round I root for them a bit. Not this year because I like OKC, but usually if they were playing Denver or something I'd root for the Clippers for sure.

Asik's better
05-29-2014, 02:43 AM
It's THE CLIPPERS.

What can't you understand? People are acting like it's the New York Yankees or something. Whoever buys the team will probably change the name to the Wolverines or the Godzillas or something. The Clippers are a joke. Most people don't even realize that Clippers are sailboats, they probably think they are like scissors or coupon books or something.
It dosn't matter what it is, it's worth what ever the market decides how much it's worth. How hard is that for you to understand. It's how the market works.

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 02:46 AM
also I admire CP3 and if you recall in a previous thread I suggested he could've maybe run for president someday if he had taken more of a stand and sat out a game or something. I also like Griffin I think he is super athletic and fun to watch. I don't really like Doc Rivers but that is just because he was a Celtic coach and a bitter Laker rival for many years; he seems like a good guy though from interviews so I've actually started to like him a bit more recently, which is saying something because there was bitter animosity between those Doc Rivers Celtics and the Kobe Lakers.

Rndy
05-29-2014, 02:46 AM
I just wonder how much the teams value has gone up over the last few years. Before Blake, CP3, Doc, and the 68 shooters they have on their team arrived. LA Clippers had to have been one of he lower valued teams bad roster and not owning your own arena.

Sterling family should be pretty grateful they are losing the team now instead of 5-10 years ago I'm sure it's just sky rocketed over the last few years.

goingfor28
05-29-2014, 02:49 AM
uh, if a contract to pay CP3 and Griffin $40m a year for 4 years makes your team worth $2.5 billion dollars then those guys seriously need to renegotiate.

You do understand that a billion is a thousand million, right?

Just what exactly is "the Clippers" besides an NBA license and an Excel spreadsheet and a bunch of bad publicity? They don't even have a stadium.

If the clippers don't have an arena than neither do the lakers. Bc staples is SHARED
A team is worth what someone will pay. If clips sell for 2B+ then if the lakers ever go for sale they'll fetch more than that easily

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 02:49 AM
It dosn't matter what it is, it's worth what ever the market decides how much it's worth. How hard is that for you to understand. It's how the market works.

No, believe me I understand that concept full well. I mean I'm not the one trying to spell out financial fundamentals or earnings potentials or projected revenues to say that the freakin' Clippers are worth $2.5 billion dollars.

In fact if I was gonna think this means anything it's that the dollar is tanking hard and we are in a bizarro inflation vortex so I hope your money is in stocks, art, real estate, precious metals, etc, and not sitting in a bank. Because a month ago the Clippers were worth $600M and today they are worth $2.5 billion or so we are being told.

goingfor28
05-29-2014, 02:51 AM
are you joking? I've made fun of the Clippers as long as they've been in LA. You're obviously not from LA or you'd realize what a longstanding joke that team is. And not a good, lovable, loyal joke like the Knicks, but a complete forgotten about worthless kind of joke.

Like seriously, back when there was local TV news, they'd show Laker highlights, then every team highlights, then hocky, baseball, boxing, track and field... and then wouldn't even show the Clipper highlights. Seriously, I'm not joking. Ask anyone from LA.

And when Clippers got to the playoffs I've rooted for them, I like to see LA teams do well so if they get past 1st round I root for them a bit. Not this year because I like OKC, but usually if they were playing Denver or something I'd root for the Clippers for sure.

Nope. I live in NC. But I'm well aware of how big a joke the clippers forever were. Were. You don't hear those jokes anymore bc they don't apply nowadays
Yes DTS sucks as an owner but guess who else currently does? Buss.
And how did DTS get introduced to the NBA? The recently deceased Buss.

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 02:57 AM
If the clippers don't have an arena than neither do the lakers. Bc staples is SHARED
A team is worth what someone will pay. If clips sell for 2B+ then if the lakers ever go for sale they'll fetch more than that easily

yeah.... I mean the Lakers are a storied franchise with incredible history and tradition. One of the original teams along with the Celtics.

If we are seriously saying that just a random NBA franchise that happens to be in LA is worth a similar amount to the Lakers, the Celtics, the Yankees, the Knicks, the Dallas Cowboys, etc... if we are seriously saying the Clippers might be worth $2.5 billion dollars....

then why not just start a new league or something? Seriously, think about what you could buy for $2.5 billion dollars instead of the Clippers. You could buy the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, the Milwaukee Bucks, plus one or two NHL Hockey teams and a euro soccer team. Or you could own "The Clippers."

I mean you could start a whole new league with $2.5 billion dollars. That is enough money to pay the salaries of every team in the league for an entire year and still have $600 million left over.

goingfor28
05-29-2014, 02:59 AM
Ok but if the clips do sell for that then obviously if the lakers cowboys yankees etc ever go for sale they will sell for way over 2.5B
Again. Something is worth what someone is willing to pay. Simple as that

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 02:59 AM
Nope. I live in NC. But I'm well aware of how big a joke the clippers forever were. Were. You don't hear those jokes anymore bc they don't apply nowadays
Yes DTS sucks as an owner but guess who else currently does? Buss.
And how did DTS get introduced to the NBA? The recently deceased Buss.

wow. just wow. You don't think the Clippers are still a joke? Have you been living in a cave for the past month?
The Clippers are the biggest circus/embarassment the league has ever seen, and Sterling is just getting started at this point.

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 03:08 AM
Ok but if the clips do sell for that then obviously if the lakers cowboys yankees etc ever go for sale they will sell for way over 2.5B
Again. Something is worth what someone is willing to pay. Simple as that

Yeah, well, that's true, but it's also true that a lot of people have overpayed for a lot of things over the years.

To me, if I'm investing that kind of money, I'm not going anywhere near the Clippers. For one thing, the current NBA ownership structure feels a lot like a big Ponzi scheme to me. Second, I just don't see that much value in the Clippers. Bad name, bad team history, no real fanbase, huge competitor in their backyard.

I mean it's not exactly correct to say that whatever somebody pays for something is what it's worth. That amount is what the market/buyer valued it at, but sometimes it can be a total ripoff. I seem to remember AIG and half of Wall Street eating **** on their ****ed up valuations of real estate and loan equity derivatives and having to be bailed out by the government for more than a trillion dollars. So, just because I pay you $200 for a signed Jeter poster doesn't mean it's actually worth that--it just means you were able to make $200 bucks off it. Somebody will probably buy the Clippers after all the legal backlash has petered out, but we'll just have to see how that plays out and whether they get a good deal or not and for how much. My prediction is this gets held up in court via an injunction so it will likely be years before serious bids can even be selected from.

goingfor28
05-29-2014, 03:12 AM
Court can't do ****. It's the same thing as an arbitration hearing. DTS will get nowhere fast. Look how well suing the MLB and MLBPA helped arod. It's the same thing here.

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 03:25 AM
Court can't do ****. It's the same thing as an arbitration hearing. DTS will get nowhere fast. Look how well suing the MLB and MLBPA helped arod. It's the same thing here.

maybe. It would be nice to see a change of ownership for the Clippers. Good things could happen, it could be pretty sweet and a big win-win for everybody.

what I was commenting on originally is I saw the capital gains tax contention thing (again, ironic if the team owners haven't paid taxes for decades and then this sale makes them pay taxes finally) and then right after that all the talk about $2.5 billion dollars.

So I can easily see Sterling going after the league in court, even after the sale of the team, for ( ($2.5 billion) - selling price of the Clippers) ) + (capital gains tax paid out on sale) + (legal fees) + (libel and defamation compensation related to illegal recording) at a very minimum.

It's going to be very interesting to see what they pull out of their hat as we approach the June 3rd vote. I'm actually quite interested and I grudgingly admire their willingness to fight. But yeah, I just don't see the $2.5 billion valuation but maybe the prospective bidders know something.

Method28
05-29-2014, 07:18 AM
Bro you are talking mess on the Clips yet your name is Smush? Lol ok .

Idk what era you grew up in but there's a thing called change. The Steelers used to be a laughing stock. The Pats were trash. Heck even OKC/Seattle hadn't done very much. Things change. The Clips are in a great situation both on the court and financially.

Their cable deal is going to expire as well. That is major dollars right there. Stop living in the past and realize potential and talent.

Have they won a title yet? No. But they're set up for some runs just as good as anyone else right now.

PhillyFaninLA
05-29-2014, 07:44 AM
take a sedative

tr3ymill3r
05-29-2014, 07:59 AM
I thought PSD made you take an IQ test before posting such dumbassery?? Do some research.

Yanks All Day
05-29-2014, 08:26 AM
Coming from New York, I think that many casual fans from big cities (not talking hardcore fans here) are bandwagon fans. As humans, we want winners. No one in New York grew up in the 90s a Mets fan because they chose that life. The Yankees were winning World Series. They were what's hot. People flock to winners. On the other hand, plenty of Mets fans grew up in the 80s. Today, there are more Yankees fans than Mets fans it seems, but if the Mets rattled off 3 or 4 titles in a decade and the Yankees consistently missed the playoffs, you'd see more blue and orange around NYC. Same thing for Los Angeles basketball.

If anything, the Lakers are just as much to blame for the Clippers' worth as the Clippers are. For years, the Lakers were winning titles and getting all the star players while the Clippers were bottom feeders who shared their arena.
Now, the Lakers are hot garbage, have a terrible owner, and no foreseeable future while the Clippers have a premiere coach, two star players, and one of the most talented rosters in the NBA. They're still in Los Angeles and on most nights, they're the most fun team in the league to watch. There's sure to be a new TV deal coming soon that would pay for the team itself, and the amount of sponsors that can still flock to LAC for CP3 and Blake isn't going to slow down. If the Lakers were still relevant because of their on-court abilities, they would still own LA, even if the Clippers were better. But the fact that the Lakers are so bad and the Clippers are on the upswing means the tide has completely changed. Of course the Clippers value is going to skyrocket, and the scandal might actually have helped that, but there are many more factors that go into a team's worth as well.

2-ONE-5
05-29-2014, 10:02 AM
Ha Ha, first of all.... it's the Clippers. OK? So, it's in LA, big deal. The league could easily just drop another franchise into LA (or Orange County, or South County, or San Diego, or whatever). Are reporters ACTUALLY believing that the Clippers, whose brand name is total **** and who have been the icons of basketball mediocrity for 30 years, are worth five times the Milwaukee Bucks or the Seattle Supersonics? If an "NBA franchise" could be sold for $2.5 billion dollars, the league would simply sell two or three of them and split the money amongst all the owners and everybody would make their nut for the next ten years.

It's RIDICULOUS and the only reason these kind of numbers can even be mentioned is because the Clippers are in Los Angeles. However, anybody from LA can tell you that the Clippers have been like a tick embedded in the side of Los Angeles for decades; nobody to speak of likes the Clippers, they have no fans, and in fact they generally make basketball fans feel worse about their sport. The Clippers have pooped on the NBA for thirty years and given virtually nothing back to the sport, and now we are just beginning to see how intractable and unfixable this situation actually is.

It is so bad that, I would almost suggest that since Lebron and all these superstar guys can opt out, there is actually a window for somebody to start a new, scaled down, "superstars" pro basketball league. 10 teams. 30 games each, plus playoffs. That gives you 150 games of Lebron vs Carmelo vs Kobe vs Westbrook, easily enough to get a really solid nightly share. The bulk of viewers watch < 1 game a day, and most just watch the best game and don't care about cities. Also, the bulk of all the money is in TV revenue and advertising, as well as shoe contracts etc. Damon Lillard, for instance, just signed a $200 million dollar Nike endorsement, but meanwhile he is making $5 million a year on a franchise that people are now saying could be worth $2.5 billion dollars.

In other words, the Lebrons and Durants and Lillards of the world are being asked to work for tens of millions but to drag the ownership vehicles of the owners forward into the future of trillion dollar league valuations with the sweat of their brow. And meanwhile you have asshat owners like Sterling who do nothing but suck value from the league. Seriously... basketball is not an expensive sport, and most of these team names and traditions don't add up to jack squat. Owners whine because their franchises eat **** when a single superstar like Lebron leaves in free agency, and even winning the lotto three times in a row they still lose money. It would be quite easy, all things considered, to simply ramp up a new TV only league. For us, by us type of thing. All you'd need is some of the superstar talent. And HELLO because of the crap CBA, none of these guys are locked into lifetime contracts anymore. Virtually the entire superstar population of the NBA could opt out within 3 years.

Just to get back to the main point: Sterling's lawyers are driving up the valuation of the team for obvious reasons. Here's what you're going to see: "The Clippers are worth $3.7 BILLION DOLLARS!!" blah blah blah. Then the Clippers get sold for $750 million or whatever. THEN Sterling's lawyers sue the NBA for ($3.7 billion) - ($750 million) + (court costs) + (emotional damages).

Seriously, if the league is going to pay out $2 billion in damages to drag itself out of the pre-civil rights era, why not just start a new league? Somebody serious please tell me I am wrong. Lebron could singlehandedly **** the league out of $2 billion dollars if he wanted to. The only fix I see is to add a new wrinkle to the CBA which allows teams to offer up to a 5% ownership stake in a franchise to superstar players, which would not count against the "salary cap" (seriously I can't even say the word "salary cap" with a straight face anymore). Over time this would lead to an increase in player ownership and would tie the transcendent superstar players, who are becoming far more valuable than the teams, to the league.

when did you start working for Forbes?

grandsalami
05-29-2014, 11:03 AM
Someone is a jealous laker fan.

ManRam
05-29-2014, 11:14 AM
If you say so!!


But seriously, I was stunned to see that $2.5B figure too...but whatever. If someone's willing to pay that, then that's what they're technically worth. And yes, they are "The Clippers", but their future success/worth/value etc. is what matters, not their history. Being in LA, getting out of the grasp of DTS and having two very marketable stars currently on the roster aren't something worth ignoring. The franchise absolutely should be worth more than the majority of teams. Be forward thinking...the past is the past.

slashsnake
05-29-2014, 11:43 AM
stunned by that figure too.

Of course 33 years ago, 12.5 million seemed like a lot for the Clippers too. If someone else had paid 50 mil for that franchise then, it would have been an insane shocker. Granted they would be sitting quite nicely today on that team, gaining 1.5 billion plus. If I had 30 billion to my name, I'd overpay for a basketball team in a big market like that. What else are you going to do with that cash... besides start your own space program, which would be pretty cool. Even with 350% inflation since then, we would be looking at a 1000% return at minimum on their investment of overpaying 4 times what the team was "worth". League revenue has jumped something like 40% since 2010-11.

It all depends on where you think the league is going. Are they just starting their international entrance, or have they saturated the foreign market and at where they will be? Will they get teams in Europe in another decade? Will China continue to build as an economic power and feed them millions of fans with money? Do they see their players becoming bigger and bigger stars in the future of social media? Will they get their own arena somewhere? If not will they get a cut of the luxury suites where they are? How do they think the next CBA will go? Where will profit sharing go?

Or are professional sports the next housing bubble ready to burst?

A lot of questions those guys have to look over to make their choice of how much to pay.

goingfor28
05-29-2014, 12:30 PM
Someone is a jealous laker fan.

Don't bother. Read the past couple pages from last night lol

slashsnake
05-29-2014, 01:20 PM
yeah.... I mean the Lakers are a storied franchise with incredible history and tradition. One of the original teams along with the Celtics.

If we are seriously saying that just a random NBA franchise that happens to be in LA is worth a similar amount to the Lakers, the Celtics, the Yankees, the Knicks, the Dallas Cowboys, etc... if we are seriously saying the Clippers might be worth $2.5 billion dollars....

then why not just start a new league or something? Seriously, think about what you could buy for $2.5 billion dollars instead of the Clippers. You could buy the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, the Milwaukee Bucks, plus one or two NHL Hockey teams and a euro soccer team. Or you could own "The Clippers."

I mean you could start a whole new league with $2.5 billion dollars. That is enough money to pay the salaries of every team in the league for an entire year and still have $600 million left over.

Depends.. if you have 20 billion and live in LA, how many games are you seeing of your team in Milwaukee, Tampa, and Europe? Just because I can get cheap beachfront property for 100 times less in Ethiopia than I can in Florida doesn't mean its a deal I want.

You could start a league and pay the players but are you convincing players to come over after all the failed secondary leagues in pro sports? You are paying them more, and getting into a bidding war with the NBA. Now are you getting the TV deals that the NBA or NFL has to return that money on your investment? Where are they playing?

Are you convincing those cities they need to shell out a half billion each to build new arena's for you? If not, better add a half billion a team to that price. We'd be talking 30 billion or so just to put together a 20 team league to get on even footing with the NBA. And if the talent level is similar, who are you watching? The NBA and their storied Lakers, or the USBA and their opening year of the LA Stars?

It has been 40 years since we've had any successful new leagues in major sports America. They did it by hitting major markets the NFL and NBA had yet to tap into (AFL and ABA). And even the ABA wasn't a success. 8 of the 12 teams folded. 1 got a good deal to fold that paid them well. With the USFL, that is 26 out of 30 teams that folded because they couldn't get that viewership, and we are talking a MUCH smaller investment to compete in those days (12.5 million to but the Clippers in 1981, a lot more today).

lakerboy
05-29-2014, 01:42 PM
It's finance. I doubt you know anything about future value, comparable, multiples and market premium. Leave it to the best guys in the world (e.g. Guggenheim) to do what they do. They make billions off this, and know what they are doing.

Deutsch Konig
05-29-2014, 02:20 PM
smush.....nobody agrees with you brother, just take your ball and go home

PrettyBoyJ
05-29-2014, 02:54 PM
Business 101:
The greater fool theory states that the price of an object is determined not by its intrinsic value, but rather by irrational beliefs and expectations of market participants. A price can be justified by a rational buyer under the belief that another party is willing to pay an even higher price. Or one may rationally have the expectation that the item can be resold to a "greater fool" later

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 03:15 PM
stunned by that figure too.

Of course 33 years ago, 12.5 million seemed like a lot for the Clippers too. If someone else had paid 50 mil for that franchise then, it would have been an insane shocker. Granted they would be sitting quite nicely today on that team, gaining 1.5 billion plus. If I had 30 billion to my name, I'd overpay for a basketball team in a big market like that. What else are you going to do with that cash... besides start your own space program, which would be pretty cool. Even with 350% inflation since then, we would be looking at a 1000% return at minimum on their investment of overpaying 4 times what the team was "worth". League revenue has jumped something like 40% since 2010-11.

It all depends on where you think the league is going. Are they just starting their international entrance, or have they saturated the foreign market and at where they will be? Will they get teams in Europe in another decade? Will China continue to build as an economic power and feed them millions of fans with money? Do they see their players becoming bigger and bigger stars in the future of social media? Will they get their own arena somewhere? If not will they get a cut of the luxury suites where they are? How do they think the next CBA will go? Where will profit sharing go?

Or are professional sports the next housing bubble ready to burst?

A lot of questions those guys have to look over to make their choice of how much to pay.

well, the point I would make is that basketball is actually a very inexpensive sport. And currently we are still kind of basing things off of a 1970s media model -- in the 50s, 60s, 70s etc the TV networks had vast monopolies and the costs and entrance barriers to televising something were significantly greater than they are now.

With current technology, anyone could basically rent an abandoned stadium and host basketball games or a basketball tournament and globally televise it very cheaply -- Internet streaming, cable, satellite, pay per view, etc. An abundance of advertising models are available also, PPC, PPI, etc. Advertising revenue is just sitting there ready for anything that gets eyeballs. And the global on-demand merchandising systems mean you can sell a load of swag (shirts, gear, shoes, etc) for a ton of profit with almost zero risk (because you don't have to store all your gear in a warehouse and pay for it up front).

So, the only missing ingredient is the basketball talent. As many posters in this thread have pointed out, tradition and legacy don't really mean much--even a team as lowly as the Clippers can suddenly be worth $2.5 billion and have a ton of fans if they simply sign a CP3 and a Griffin. So what does that tell you? It tells me that the actual teams, and by extension the entire league, don't have nearly the value of superstar players. If you boil it down then you will realize you could just have an "The Ultimate Fighter" style reality show starring 10-20 of those players, punctuated by incredible pay per view basketball games or something like that, and you would pwn the NBA. In the future there will probably just be more competitor leagues.

All the NBA does now is try to build a fence around its revenue streams... but as just mentioned, the only thing of value it has are the actual players. The NBA product is actually quite weak and most fans are frustrated with it and tired of it; the main problem is that instead of seeing the Lebrons and the Westbrooks cut loose and transcend to the max of their talent, what we get is a tightly controlled (some would say scripted) series of games, where stubby little referees chase around Lebron and Griffin or whoever and call them for every imagined touch foul. Where referees routinely make astronomically marginal calls on infintesimal contact, but then when forced to go to instant video replay say the call is "too undeterminable to reverse", which begs the question as to why you have to make 30 of these calls every game.

Everybody tunes in to "the big NBA game" expecting something great, and within 30 seconds there is another lame as foul call by another suspect ****** referee reminding you of just how frustrating and meaningless this game is going to be just like all the others. Literally, the game is almost played for the refs. The refs -- how you can impress them or get the calls -- is basically the entire game. Check the score differential in most games and then check the difference in team free throw counts -- the number is very often exactly the same. Team A wins by 7 points and it got *surprise* 7 more free throws than team B. Over and over and over and over. It's boring. And there's a huge window for anybody who can put together a better game.

So that's all I'm saying, is, one, F the Clippers. Those ****ing clowns and their a-hole tradition. A tradition that any real basketball fan would rather forget, the 30 years of cynical plantation mentality the NBA has been forced to live with. And, second, who's got next? And I don't think there is anything that says it has to be all about the NBA either.

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 03:19 PM
Depends.. if you have 20 billion and live in LA, how many games are you seeing of your team in Milwaukee, Tampa, and Europe? Just because I can get cheap beachfront property for 100 times less in Ethiopia than I can in Florida doesn't mean its a deal I want.

You could start a league and pay the players but are you convincing players to come over after all the failed secondary leagues in pro sports? You are paying them more, and getting into a bidding war with the NBA. Now are you getting the TV deals that the NBA or NFL has to return that money on your investment? Where are they playing?

Are you convincing those cities they need to shell out a half billion each to build new arena's for you? If not, better add a half billion a team to that price. We'd be talking 30 billion or so just to put together a 20 team league to get on even footing with the NBA. And if the talent level is similar, who are you watching? The NBA and their storied Lakers, or the USBA and their opening year of the LA Stars?

It has been 40 years since we've had any successful new leagues in major sports America. They did it by hitting major markets the NFL and NBA had yet to tap into (AFL and ABA). And even the ABA wasn't a success. 8 of the 12 teams folded. 1 got a good deal to fold that paid them well. With the USFL, that is 26 out of 30 teams that folded because they couldn't get that viewership, and we are talking a MUCH smaller investment to compete in those days (12.5 million to but the Clippers in 1981, a lot more today).

that's the point though, the NBA has salary capped itself to the point where it couldn't really compete with a legit rival league. The only reason you can pay Lebron $20 million while your $350m franchise appreciates to $2.5+ billion is because there is no market competition for his services. Seeing as he IS the league, such a circumstance cannot continue indefinitely.

Secondly, as I mentioned, it's not that expensive to run a basketball league. I mean in the early days of the NBA they were probably doing it for thousands of dollars -- shirts, sneakers, balls, rent a gym. What else you need? Oh yeah, global live television streaming, which *HELLO* anybody can do these days, for very inexpensive and totally scalable costs.

ManRam
05-29-2014, 03:20 PM
So that's all I'm saying, is, one, F the Clippers. Those ****ing clowns and their a-hole tradition. A tradition that any real basketball fan would rather forget, the 30 years of cynical plantation mentality the NBA has been forced to live with. And, second, who's got next? And I don't think there is anything that says it has to be all about the NBA either.

Should have just lead with this. Thread title: "I hate the Clippers let me show you how much".

That's all history. Bad and terrible history, but history. With new ownership the "Clippers" might as well just be some laundry. With Sterling out, it's a whole new ball game for that organization. And again, as a potential buyer, you're making an investment; it's all about what lies ahead and not what happened in the past.

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 03:33 PM
It's finance. I doubt you know anything about future value, comparable, multiples and market premium. Leave it to the best guys in the world (e.g. Guggenheim) to do what they do. They make billions off this, and know what they are doing.

sure, and like I said this might have more to do with global currency markets than anything else. We might just be seeing "the next wave" of super-valuations in rare commodities. But what you have to ask yourself is, are the Clippers being over-valued or under-valued? Are you buying them at the zenith of potential value, or are you certain that their actual value (based on projected revenue and appreciation) could catch up to that $1 billion + figure (of the absurd $2.5 billion figure) within 10 years?

What's weird is that if these investment groups do go as high as $2.5 billion and are WRONG, then essentially it could sink team valuations for years going forward--the cautionary tale of the group that lost billions on a stupid NBA Clippers franchise. In which case it becomes Sterling who killed the golden goose, the one guy who cashed out with more equity than the entire league put together for a stupid irrelevant team the league would rather have contracted out of the league every season for the past 20 years.

But today I see an article from Ramona Shelbourne saying exactly what I said in my OP yesterday, which is that experts working with those groups are legitimately concerned that Sterling is just using this "bidding process" to establish an inflated market value of the team so that he can sue the league for damages.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/29/report-shelly-sterling-has-received-handful-of-1-billion-plus-bids-for-clippers/related/

I also like the part about the $300 million non-refundable deposit for bidders. Ha ha, ok, so they are basically saying on the one hand "hell no we won't sell we will sue you forever" and on the other hand "ok, trust us, we are going to sell" and then they want you to give them $300 million up front before the sale, non-refundable, which will then be stuck in limbo forever while they sue and counter-sue you and refuse to sell the team.

Yeah, hey, if you see a lot of value there then go for it. I will just watch the show, thank you very much. Maybe somebody will write some business textbooks on this case.

alexander_37
05-29-2014, 03:38 PM
Read a book ... They are in LA, what the second biggest media market in the country. Most Lakers fans are bandwagoners as it is so the Clippers are picking up steam. The local TV deals alone are in the hundreds of millions.

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 03:40 PM
Should have just lead with this. Thread title: "I hate the Clippers let me show you how much".

That's all history. Bad and terrible history, but history. With new ownership the "Clippers" might as well just be some laundry. With Sterling out, it's a whole new ball game for that organization. And again, as a potential buyer, you're making an investment; it's all about what lies ahead and not what happened in the past.

Yeah, well if Rebel Wilson went on a diet and lost 100 pounds she'd be as hot as Kate Upton. And if Jerry Jones was as smart as Bill Bellicheck he'd be winning the super bowl every year. And if Detroit wasn't a burned out wasteland it would be the greatest city on Earth.

wtf

Seriously, you gonna pay 5x more than the cost of any previous NBA franchise for a team with a dog**** name and a bunch of "what ifs"? with a bunch of lawsuits being threatened?

honestly, I just don't get where the will to like the Clippers or to convince yourself to find a way to be a Clipper fan even comes from. You like CP3 and Griffin, ok fine. But the Clippers? Even those guys can't stand the Clippers and are trying to find ways for the league to let them leave the team. Why on Earth would anyone want to be a Clipper fan, especially now. ESPECIALLY now. I think you could make a much better case for being a Milwaukee Bucks fan or a Phoenix Suns fan actually.

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 03:47 PM
Read a book ... They are in LA, what the second biggest media market in the country. Most Lakers fans are bandwagoners as it is so the Clippers are picking up steam. The local TV deals alone are in the hundreds of millions.

Local TV... LOCAL TV?!?!?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. What are you still livin' in the 90's? LoL, "local tv." The phrase "local tv market" is a complete oxymoron. Even the league is trying to expand viewership to Europe and Asia. I've been watching every minute of OKC vs San Antonio and Miami vs Indiana in huge vivid HD and I am sitting in California. You can get every single game. If anything, to me it seems like "local TV" deals are just a way to lock out local fans of the local games and send them through another "local paywall" to watch "local games."

Send your cable/satellite providers a message: there are a zillion things to watch/do, so if you overcharge me or bore me for one second I am just switching channels. I've got 200 awesome movies on my Netflix that I haven't even had time to get to watch yet... LoL that I am going to worry about watching some Clippers game. Jeezus the NFL draft got higher ratings than the NBA playoffs. What the hell are people thinking

slashsnake
05-29-2014, 04:02 PM
that's the point though, the NBA has salary capped itself to the point where it couldn't really compete with a legit rival league. The only reason you can pay Lebron $20 million while your $350m franchise appreciates to $2.5+ billion is because there is no market competition for his services. Seeing as he IS the league, such a circumstance cannot continue indefinitely.

Secondly, as I mentioned, it's not that expensive to run a basketball league. I mean in the early days of the NBA they were probably doing it for thousands of dollars -- shirts, sneakers, balls, rent a gym. What else you need? Oh yeah, global live television streaming, which *HELLO* anybody can do these days, for very inexpensive and totally scalable costs.

So kind of do what the stars did during the lockout. Drew League, Goodman League type keep it small and simple stuff.

So you don't want to go with the giant boards and screens to promote your sponsors at games but just do it at a regular gym. Say goodbye to those dollars. You aren't getting an arena with the luxury boxes or that can seat 18000 fans, have multiple food and team gear sales, etc... say goodbye to those dollars (about 1/3 to 1/2 of the league revenue). Not spending millions marketing the league, jerseys, etc here and overseas to China and Brazil and Europe (majority of NBAshop.com hits are from overseas). Yup, goodbye to that income... So what are you paying these guys?

Even if somehow a new league was able to kick off 28 teams running 82 games a year, and get the same television deals as the NBA, they are looking at still needing another billion dollars to pay the players the same as what they would make in the NBA AND haven't spent one dime yet on their costs.


It's only expensive if you want the revenue to do things like pay the players.


The thing is Bird/Magic was the league. Then Jordan was the league. Then Kobe, AI, and Shaq were the league. Then Lebron. Then Durant. IF Lebron was truly the league, the league would tank when he retires. But someone has to be the best, someone has to win championships. The league continues markets its next star and moves on.

I just don't buy that the sell to Kobe is "We are skimping on the best coaching staff, trainers, way to market our league and you, hard fouls are part of the game (hope you brought your own ice), don't worry about your guaranteed pensions and insurance, you only have a few thousand fans at your games, etc... now hop on the bus, we've got a 40 hour drive for our game in Boston tomorrow" is going to sell him to change leagues.

It sounds nice in theory.. You can't just build that fan base, history and infrastructure for free.

ManRam
05-29-2014, 04:04 PM
Yeah, well if Rebel Wilson went on a diet and lost 100 pounds she'd be as hot as Kate Upton. And if Jerry Jones was as smart as Bill Bellicheck he'd be winning the super bowl every year. And if Detroit wasn't a burned out wasteland it would be the greatest city on Earth.

wtf

Seriously, you gonna pay 5x more than the cost of any previous NBA franchise for a team with a dog**** name and a bunch of "what ifs"? with a bunch of lawsuits being threatened?

honestly, I just don't get where the will to like the Clippers or to convince yourself to find a way to be a Clipper fan even comes from. You like CP3 and Griffin, ok fine. But the Clippers? Even those guys can't stand the Clippers and are trying to find ways for the league to let them leave the team. Why on Earth would anyone want to be a Clipper fan, especially now. ESPECIALLY now. I think you could make a much better case for being a Milwaukee Bucks fan or a Phoenix Suns fan actually.

You're a Lakers fan. We don't expect you to understand what liking any other team besides the Lakers is like. Don't worry....

grandsalami
05-29-2014, 04:08 PM
Dude take off the ****ing laker homer glasses.

grandsalami
05-29-2014, 04:10 PM
Op might as well said " I'm a laker fan who hates everything clippers". Read a ****ing book on finance before you spout false info.

slashsnake
05-29-2014, 04:49 PM
Kinda thought that he might be a laker fan not just from the animosity but the saying that the Clippers were a bad team name. Taking a vacation next week, thinking about checking out the beautiful lakes in the LA area.

If we wanted to rank bad team names Lakers would be near the top of the list. Of course they only sound as bad as the team playing. Redskins can be a racial slur but beloved. What Dutch in NY still call themselves knickerbockers? Pelicans sounds bad, but they win a few rings and nobody will care anymore.

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 05:03 PM
Kinda thought that he might be a laker fan not just from the animosity but the saying that the Clippers were a bad team name. Taking a vacation next week, thinking about checking out the beautiful lakes in the LA area.

If we wanted to rank bad team names Lakers would be near the top of the list. Of course they only sound as bad as the team playing. Redskins can be a racial slur but beloved. What Dutch in NY still call themselves knickerbockers? Pelicans sounds bad, but they win a few rings and nobody will care anymore.

haha, seriously? The Lakers are a bad name? The LA-kers? The LA Lakers? The Los Angeles Lakers?

Etymology 2

From Middle English lake, lak, lac (also loke, laik, layke), from Old English lāc (“play, sport, strife, battle, sacrifice, offering, gift, present, booty, message”), from Proto-Germanic *laiką (“play, fight”), *laikaz (“game, dance, hymn, sport”), from Proto-Indo-European *loig-, *leig- (“to bounce, shake, tremble”). Cognate with Old High German leih (“song, melody, music”) and Albanian luaj (“I move, play”). More at lay.

Noun

lake (plural lakes)

(obsolete) An offering, sacrifice, gift.
(dialectal) Play; sport; game; fun; glee.

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 05:22 PM
I always thought the Redskins played a somewhat primitive style of football. And a lot of their players seem to get busted for drinking too much. Their leader is kind of sneaky too. Overall I don't think Redskins is the worst name. Redskin football, Redskin team, Redskin franchise, Redskin gear, Redskin nation, Redskins win, Redskins lose, Redskins play the Cowboys, Redskins beat the Chiefs, Redskins in the hunt, Redskins out of the hunt, Redskins eliminated, Redskins steal a game, Redskins win the championship, Redskins back on defense, Redskins on the offensive, black players on the Redskins, white players on the Redskins, Redskins fired a white coach and hired a black coach, Redskins interview a black coach but hire a white coach. Redskins profits were in the red but now they are in the black and they are not waving the white flag anytime soon.

RedSkins RedSkins
RedSkins RedSkins
RedSkins RedSkins
RedSkins RedSkins
RedSkins RedSkins
RedSkins RedSkins
RedSkins RedSkins
RedSkins RedSkins
RedSkins RedSkins
RedSkins RedSkins
RedSkins RedSkins
RedSkins RedSkins
RedSkins RedSkins
RedSkins RedSkins
RedSkins RedSkins
RedSkins RedSkins

tredigs
05-29-2014, 05:31 PM
Smush is making a serious push for most belligerent troglodyte on PSD right now. This is an impressive collection of nonsensical ramblings, and in just one thread!

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 05:35 PM
So kind of do what the stars did during the lockout. Drew League, Goodman League type keep it small and simple stuff.

So you don't want to go with the giant boards and screens to promote your sponsors at games but just do it at a regular gym. Say goodbye to those dollars. You aren't getting an arena with the luxury boxes or that can seat 18000 fans, have multiple food and team gear sales, etc... say goodbye to those dollars (about 1/3 to 1/2 of the league revenue). Not spending millions marketing the league, jerseys, etc here and overseas to China and Brazil and Europe (majority of NBAshop.com hits are from overseas). Yup, goodbye to that income... So what are you paying these guys?

Even if somehow a new league was able to kick off 28 teams running 82 games a year, and get the same television deals as the NBA, they are looking at still needing another billion dollars to pay the players the same as what they would make in the NBA AND haven't spent one dime yet on their costs.


It's only expensive if you want the revenue to do things like pay the players.


The thing is Bird/Magic was the league. Then Jordan was the league. Then Kobe, AI, and Shaq were the league. Then Lebron. Then Durant. IF Lebron was truly the league, the league would tank when he retires. But someone has to be the best, someone has to win championships. The league continues markets its next star and moves on.

I just don't buy that the sell to Kobe is "We are skimping on the best coaching staff, trainers, way to market our league and you, hard fouls are part of the game (hope you brought your own ice), don't worry about your guaranteed pensions and insurance, you only have a few thousand fans at your games, etc... now hop on the bus, we've got a 40 hour drive for our game in Boston tomorrow" is going to sell him to change leagues.

It sounds nice in theory.. You can't just build that fan base, history and infrastructure for free.

Yeah, but ask yourself, who is making all that money? Why should it matter to Lebron, who is making $20 million either way, if the league can develop revenue streams in China and London and get its franchises valued at $2.5 billion dollars? Lebron is still making $20 million a season thanks to the salary cap.

I mean think about it the Kim Kardashian sex tape made $20 million dollars. Psy made $20 million off of gangnam style.

If you really think about it, the college game and the metrics / scouting / combines are what make the stars. Jadeveon Clowney is already a legend and he hasn't even played one game yet. Lebron was already the acknowledged future best in the NBA while he was still in high school. You want to see what these guys can do against the top competition, you want to see deep playoff tournaments and all that, but in reality the NBA has no monopoly on basketball talent. There are already perfectly viable and successful basketball leagues in Europe and Asia, and any of them could theoretically step in and do more or less exactly what the NBA does. It would be different if the NBA held a patent on the game of basketball but as it so happens they don't.

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 05:36 PM
Smush is making a serious push for most belligerent troglodyte on PSD right now. This is an impressive collection of nonsensical ramblings, and in just one thread!

ad hominem -- zero points

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 05:39 PM
honestly I can't believe that people are strenuously arguing that the Clippers are worth $2.5 billion dollars and are seriously debating that the Clippers are a great franchise worth being a fan of. I... don't get it. What will you say after CP3 formally applies to the league to be released from his Clipper's contract.

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 05:40 PM
The Clippers... hahahaha omfg. I guess if you wait long enough you see everything. *wheeeeeee* yay for the Clippers LoL

Sssmush
05-29-2014, 05:41 PM
wait, what did Sterling do today? seriously it is just as if not more entertaining than the playoffs

Tony_Starks
05-29-2014, 06:12 PM
Sssmush, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Lol. Classic, yet appropriate.

ryder78c
05-29-2014, 06:38 PM
Agree move them to Seattle then I can go watch the i5 rivalry again I seen fights at the garden and key arena my two favorite teams blazers and Sonics grew up in both areas all my life. ever since the clippers came to be they have been the bobcats to the whole league a annoying team that's always been crappy even when there good all there fans are either Lakers fans or b listers

Kevj77
05-29-2014, 07:14 PM
Maybe not 2.5 billion, but Clippers are easily worth over a billion. I don't think it is even debatable. Lets see they play in big market with a new arena. Have stars like CP3 and Blake with Doc as the coach. Add that they are in line for a new TV deal if it is even worth half of what the Lakers and Dodgers recently got it is worth billions. That alone adds tremendous value to the team in a potential sale.

LA_Raiders
05-29-2014, 07:21 PM
Folks, sssmush has some valid points, but some are not possible due to the nature on the "sport" having a team of superstars? I would be a reality show with all the crying and baggage they carry. I wouldn't mind the strippers idea.

P&GRealist
05-29-2014, 07:38 PM
Clips just got sold for $2B.

Guess Smush Parker can eat his words now.

steelcityroller
05-29-2014, 08:18 PM
Anything is worth what somebody is willing to pay for it....

2-ONE-5
05-29-2014, 08:27 PM
Smush is making a serious push for most belligerent troglodyte on PSD right now. This is an impressive collection of nonsensical ramblings, and in just one thread!

i think he takes the cake.

bucketss
05-29-2014, 08:37 PM
Clips just got sold for $2B.

Guess Smush Parker can eat his words now.

what smush say?

bucketss
05-29-2014, 08:39 PM
ohhhhhhh i thought you guys were talking about the real smush parker.

goingfor28
05-29-2014, 08:52 PM
ohhhhhhh i thought you guys were talking about the real smush parker.

:laugh2:

Tony_Starks
05-29-2014, 09:40 PM
ohhhhhhh i thought you guys were talking about the real smush parker.

Lol. He's somewhere living in the smushmobile!

NBA_Starter
05-29-2014, 09:47 PM
I guess Ballmer disagrees with the OP!

RLundi
05-29-2014, 10:38 PM
Bitterness is pretty pathetic.

Clippersfan86
05-29-2014, 10:52 PM
The 2.5 billion number is Sterling trying to leverage a sale and offset the MASSIVE 700 million dollar tax bill or whatever he will automatically be forced to pay when the team is sold. That being said, the evaluation isn't as high as some are acting like. There is already a bidder offering 2 billion according to sources and remember all these guys in the bidding war are INSANELY rich. As in 20-60 billion rich each (or in the case of say Grant Hill's ownership, collectively that rich).

So the final figure will likely be around 1.5- 2 billion.

Right again.

NBA_Starter
05-29-2014, 10:58 PM
Who cares what they are worth as long as they were sold.

JasonJohnHorn
05-30-2014, 02:45 AM
...we can't stop here! This is bat country!
+1

rip hst

JasonJohnHorn
05-30-2014, 02:51 AM
What is the team worth? It depends on how you look at it.

Are you looking at is as an investment? Then no. The team simply doesn't make enough money to warrant an investment like that. If you are a business person, you look at overhead and profits and capital investment. Most investors want to make their money back within a few years and then have a steady income afterwards. If the steady income is big enough, they might wait a few more years to make back their initial investment. The fact that the Clippers makes less than 20 million a year indicates that it will take literally over 100 years to make that money back.

As a play thing for a billionaire? It is worth whatever the billionaire is willing to pay.

Clippersfan86
05-30-2014, 03:11 AM
What is the team worth? It depends on how you look at it.

Are you looking at is as an investment? Then no. The team simply doesn't make enough money to warrant an investment like that. If you are a business person, you look at overhead and profits and capital investment. Most investors want to make their money back within a few years and then have a steady income afterwards. If the steady income is big enough, they might wait a few more years to make back their initial investment. The fact that the Clippers makes less than 20 million a year indicates that it will take literally over 100 years to make that money back.

As a play thing for a billionaire? It is worth whatever the billionaire is willing to pay.

Serious question Jason. Do you follow the Clippers whatsoever? You're a nice guy and I've never had an issue with you. But on this particular thing you've been a bit out of the loop. Let me explain the whole profit situation.


Why did Donald Sterling not make much profit?

1. He actually made the 15th most profit of any owner, despite doing nothing.

2. The Clippers have a VERY mediocre TV deal that pays just a measly 20 million a year. New estimates have them getting 80+ million a year with the next deal. That alone increases annual profit 60+ million (could be higher than 80).

3. Donald has NEVER invested in any sort of EXTRAS when it comes to marketing the brand. He's never had pride in it obviously. With as entertaining and exciting as this team has been the last 3 years, they should be a WAY bigger brand.


Why will this pay off as an INVESTMENT and not a toy?


1. Huge TV deal coming, which will be a massive profit boost.

2. Expect huge marketing/merchandise pushing, possibly a rebranding... which Sterling never made the effort to do.

3. This is the richest NBA owner now by a long ways (4.5 billion richer than number two Paul Allen, his old boss ironically). If you don't think he's going to pour a lot into the team similarly to what Mark Cuban did when he bought the Mavs, you're probably mistaken.


Maybe some of this will clear things up for you.

Chronz
05-30-2014, 03:19 AM
What is the team worth? It depends on how you look at it.

Are you looking at is as an investment? Then no. The team simply doesn't make enough money to warrant an investment like that. If you are a business person, you look at overhead and profits and capital investment. Most investors want to make their money back within a few years and then have a steady income afterwards. If the steady income is big enough, they might wait a few more years to make back their initial investment. The fact that the Clippers makes less than 20 million a year indicates that it will take literally over 100 years to make that money back.

As a play thing for a billionaire? It is worth whatever the billionaire is willing to pay.

Yea but imagine when that billionaire gets to sell his steady profit stream. Thats where the value comes. But yes its mostly a play thing, but one that increases in value and can be sold fairly easily.

Chrisclover
05-30-2014, 06:52 AM
The damn Sterling certainly stirred up the price but it was a fair bidding. Ballmer is not stupid --he is a businessman with the experience of running Microsoft under his belt. If you question the price, you just wait for his explanation.

Chrisclover
05-30-2014, 07:07 AM
certainly the NBA didnt rig this bidding. It is all about business --the one who bids highest wins.
Ballmer was driven out of his office because he was considered unfit for the future of Microsoft, which was highlighted by the fiasco of the Surface RT, costing Microsoft a lot of money.
With his money, Ballmer certainly wants to be the big boss again and this is a golden chance. The Clippers have the potential to a perennial contender and it is in LA. So long as Ballmer manages it well, the Clippers wont fall apart and will likely be a family business for Ballmer.
Granted,as a businessman, Ballmer prioritizes profit but he may also chase other things. He may want the limelight, the fame and also, the respect from the Clippers fans. This man is VERY RICH. 2 billions consists just 10% of his wealth at best.
In a nutshell, this is just the freedom of Ballmer.You disagree?

Chrisclover
05-30-2014, 07:14 AM
Their star players are only signed for 3 years more, so big whoop. If an investment group is going to pay $2 billion dollars for the Clippers because Blake and CP3 play for them then they are idiots.

You dont call a billionaire an idiot. Ballmer has his own reasons.
The boss of Nets, Proky,also threw tons of money to buy his team and assemble this roster. You call him an idiot?no. Proky has way more money than what he has lost and his main goal is not earning money but gaining himself fame, which can be used to boost his popularity in Russia, in order to become the president.
Again, we average people really dont know what the super-rich people want.

SiteWolf
05-30-2014, 08:23 AM
Think about it. Paul Allen co-founded Microsoft and Steve Ballmer only began as an employee of Microsoft 5 years later. While he eventually became the CEO, that still left Allen as his boss all those years. Yet his net worth is higher than Paul's...........which should tell you he knows a little something about investments.

The numbers don't have to work for us, they just have to work for him.

amos1er
05-30-2014, 08:46 AM
Like any asset in a capitalist society, the Clippers are worth whatever someone is willing to pay for them.

slashsnake
05-30-2014, 04:28 PM
What is the team worth? It depends on how you look at it.

Are you looking at is as an investment? Then no. The team simply doesn't make enough money to warrant an investment like that. If you are a business person, you look at overhead and profits and capital investment. Most investors want to make their money back within a few years and then have a steady income afterwards. If the steady income is big enough, they might wait a few more years to make back their initial investment. The fact that the Clippers makes less than 20 million a year indicates that it will take literally over 100 years to make that money back.

As a play thing for a billionaire? It is worth whatever the billionaire is willing to pay.

You are still missing the value of the team. Like I said earlier, a brick of gold gets you 0 dollars a year income. If Donald Sterling didn't make a dime of profit in any year he owned the clippers, he is still going to come out with a $1,950,000,000 profit on his investment.

futureman
05-30-2014, 04:30 PM
If the Clippers aren't, the Lakers aren't either. Teams don't usually get sold when they're contending.

LongIslandIcedZ
05-30-2014, 04:32 PM
I would love to see what the Lakers and Knicks would go for in a similar situation.

BKLYNpigeon
05-30-2014, 04:54 PM
Kobe was right about Sssmush Parker, he was an troll.

Clippersfan86
05-30-2014, 04:58 PM
I would love to see what the Lakers and Knicks would go for in a similar situation.

Depends on what the owner wants. If they care about winning like Mark Cuban did when he bought the Mavs, or Ballmer does with the Clippers... any buyer would run FAR from the Lakers or Knicks right now. If all they care about is profit/merchandise sales, than I'd assume they could get 2.5 billion probably.

Remember.. the Clippers evaluation would still be top 5, even if other teams were up for sale right now. People act like the Clippers don't have a ton going for them.

BKLYNpigeon
05-30-2014, 04:59 PM
Listen, there's only 30 teams in the nba. Good luck finding one for sale. Clippers are not worth 2billion, it was valued closer to 1.2 billion. But the future value of the clippers is what's more valuable. Ballmer is worth 20 billion I don't think he cares how much he spends.

Clippers tv deal is expected to be renewed in two years. They will get a lucrative payday.

Sssmush
05-30-2014, 05:04 PM
You dont call a billionaire an idiot. Ballmer has his own reasons.
The boss of Nets, Proky,also threw tons of money to buy his team and assemble this roster. You call him an idiot?no. Proky has way more money than what he has lost and his main goal is not earning money but gaining himself fame, which can be used to boost his popularity in Russia, in order to become the president.
Again, we average people really dont know what the super-rich people want.

Well, I don't know if you've ever seen a "whale" going wild in a casino, throwing down handfuls of $50k chips on the pass line every single roll... and trust me that is not my world at all... but it does seem to me that just because someone is willing to throw around a bunch of money that doesn't mean it's a good value. Whole industries are set up just to catch the crumbs of extra value that fall off the table, and it seems like Donald Sterling just cashed in big time by being in the right place and the right time. Somehow. I mean he should send V. Stiviano a present with another $1.8 million dollars inside because that series of events just paid of incredibly for him. I mean seriously the Clipper just sold for 4x the previous high price for an NBA franchise, and for a higher price than both the Dodgers and Manchester United. To me that is beyond unprecedented and is incredible.

I don't think it is entirely irrational and it actually tells me something about what is happening with capital and how that relates to the value of tangible assets. And I don't begrudge the Sterlings their windfall -- despite coming across as somewhat unsavory, they seem to play by the rule of law and I respect that. I also think there is something romantic about Shelly and Donald fighting it out all these years, them against the world, and it isn't terrible that they cashed in with a +equity payday. Sure they seem to have some prejudiced attitudes but I actually don't think they represent the worst sort of people or the worst sort of prejudice by any means.

All that being said, I could see the Ballmer Clippers being a sparkling, wonderful attraction in Los Angeles. The Red, White and Blue and all that... America's team... boat parades in the harbor... fireworks... superstars... big splashy promotions and the full goodwill of the community. It could be a beautiful thing and great for the NBA.

The $2.1 billion dollars is a lot, but if you think about it in 2024 dollars then it is very likely a pretty decent deal, even though they seem to be buying at the tip top of the market right now. I was wrong about the value, at least in terms of what someone was willing to pay for the team. Not sure what their process was but it's hard to question what is surely very sophisticated investors.

WestCoastSportz
05-30-2014, 06:44 PM
$2 billion is A LOT of money....for the majority of society, but to a guy that is worth $20 billion, it isn't much. Thats 10% of his wealth to help make him happy, so why not overpay a ridiculous amount? You have to look at it from a certain perspective. How many people out there have $1000 in their bank account, but just bought a $100 pair of shoes?

Chrisclover
05-30-2014, 08:36 PM
$2 billion is A LOT of money....for the majority of society, but to a guy that is worth $20 billion, it isn't much. Thats 10% of his wealth to help make him happy, so why not overpay a ridiculous amount? You have to look at it from a certain perspective. How many people out there have $1000 in their bank account, but just bought a $100 pair of shoes?

Exactly what I am thinking

bagwell368
05-30-2014, 09:08 PM
Ha Ha, first of all.... it's the Clippers. OK? So, it's in LA, big deal. The league could easily just drop another franchise into LA (or Orange County, or South County, or San Diego, or whatever). Are reporters ACTUALLY believing that the Clippers, whose brand name is total **** and who have been the icons of basketball mediocrity for 30 years, are worth five times the Milwaukee Bucks or the Seattle Supersonics? If an "NBA franchise" could be sold for $2.5 billion dollars, the league would simply sell two or three of them and split the money amongst all the owners and everybody would make their nut for the next ten years.

It's RIDICULOUS and the only reason these kind of numbers can even be mentioned is because the Clippers are in Los Angeles. However, anybody from LA can tell you that the Clippers have been like a tick embedded in the side of Los Angeles for decades; nobody to speak of likes the Clippers, they have no fans, and in fact they generally make basketball fans feel worse about their sport. The Clippers have pooped on the NBA for thirty years and given virtually nothing back to the sport, and now we are just beginning to see how intractable and unfixable this situation actually is.

It is so bad that, I would almost suggest that since Lebron and all these superstar guys can opt out, there is actually a window for somebody to start a new, scaled down, "superstars" pro basketball league. 10 teams. 30 games each, plus playoffs. That gives you 150 games of Lebron vs Carmelo vs Kobe vs Westbrook, easily enough to get a really solid nightly share. The bulk of viewers watch < 1 game a day, and most just watch the best game and don't care about cities. Also, the bulk of all the money is in TV revenue and advertising, as well as shoe contracts etc. Damon Lillard, for instance, just signed a $200 million dollar Nike endorsement, but meanwhile he is making $5 million a year on a franchise that people are now saying could be worth $2.5 billion dollars.

In other words, the Lebrons and Durants and Lillards of the world are being asked to work for tens of millions but to drag the ownership vehicles of the owners forward into the future of trillion dollar league valuations with the sweat of their brow. And meanwhile you have asshat owners like Sterling who do nothing but suck value from the league. Seriously... basketball is not an expensive sport, and most of these team names and traditions don't add up to jack squat. Owners whine because their franchises eat **** when a single superstar like Lebron leaves in free agency, and even winning the lotto three times in a row they still lose money. It would be quite easy, all things considered, to simply ramp up a new TV only league. For us, by us type of thing. All you'd need is some of the superstar talent. And HELLO because of the crap CBA, none of these guys are locked into lifetime contracts anymore. Virtually the entire superstar population of the NBA could opt out within 3 years.

Just to get back to the main point: Sterling's lawyers are driving up the valuation of the team for obvious reasons. Here's what you're going to see: "The Clippers are worth $3.7 BILLION DOLLARS!!" blah blah blah. Then the Clippers get sold for $750 million or whatever. THEN Sterling's lawyers sue the NBA for ($3.7 billion) - ($750 million) + (court costs) + (emotional damages).

Seriously, if the league is going to pay out $2 billion in damages to drag itself out of the pre-civil rights era, why not just start a new league? Somebody serious please tell me I am wrong. Lebron could singlehandedly **** the league out of $2 billion dollars if he wanted to. The only fix I see is to add a new wrinkle to the CBA which allows teams to offer up to a 5% ownership stake in a franchise to superstar players, which would not count against the "salary cap" (seriously I can't even say the word "salary cap" with a straight face anymore). Over time this would lead to an increase in player ownership and would tie the transcendent superstar players, who are becoming far more valuable than the teams, to the league.

Why not? Let him overpay? It's funny money made with garbage software. UNIX/Linux walk all over M$ anyday.

NBA_Starter
05-30-2014, 09:26 PM
Exactly what I am thinking

That is a Great way to put it.

Vinylman
05-30-2014, 10:25 PM
Smush is making a serious push for most belligerent troglodyte on PSD right now. This is an impressive collection of nonsensical ramblings, and in just one thread!

come to the Laker forum ... they are a daily occurence

NBA_Starter
05-30-2014, 10:59 PM
Daily wow!

slashsnake
05-31-2014, 12:01 PM
Well, I don't know if you've ever seen a "whale" going wild in a casino, throwing down handfuls of $50k chips on the pass line every single roll... and trust me that is not my world at all... but it does seem to me that just because someone is willing to throw around a bunch of money that doesn't mean it's a good value. Whole industries are set up just to catch the crumbs of extra value that fall off the table, and it seems like Donald Sterling just cashed in big time by being in the right place and the right time. Somehow. I mean he should send V. Stiviano a present with another $1.8 million dollars inside because that series of events just paid of incredibly for him. I mean seriously the Clipper just sold for 4x the previous high price for an NBA franchise, and for a higher price than both the Dodgers and Manchester United. To me that is beyond unprecedented and is incredible.

And I don't begrudge the Sterlings their windfall -- despite coming across as somewhat unsavory, they seem to play by the rule of law and I respect that. I also think there is something romantic about Shelly and Donald fighting it out all these years, them against the world, and it isn't terrible that they cashed in with a +equity payday.



They seem to play by the law? Have you seen their litigation history? You don't pay out the biggest housing discrimination settlement in the history of the world if you are "playing by the law".

Are you that out of it that you are saying two people banding up together to kick people out of their homes based solely on race is "romantic"? No, nothing comes across as romantic about what those two have done, and if you think it is, I really question your morals.


Come on. Leave your racism at home for once. That's either just trolling, or flat out ugly to say.

Sssmush
05-31-2014, 09:33 PM
They seem to play by the law? Have you seen their litigation history? You don't pay out the biggest housing discrimination settlement in the history of the world if you are "playing by the law".

Are you that out of it that you are saying two people banding up together to kick people out of their homes based solely on race is "romantic"? No, nothing comes across as romantic about what those two have done, and if you think it is, I really question your morals.


Come on. Leave your racism at home for once. That's either just trolling, or flat out ugly to say.

I understand what you're saying, and I find the racial prejudice aspect of all this to be very distasteful and very unfortunate. But I'm just pointing out that they aren't criminals, as such, and if they fought people or kicked people's butts it was all done in court. You may not like them but if you wanted to fight them you had to head into a court of law to do it.

Also, we should consider that Sterling was a self-made guy who battled his way up from nothing. Nobody ever said lawyers were saints, and in any case he surely took his share of beatings in his life and probably had to face prejudice as well. I never liked his attitude toward the NBA and I always thought he was condescending and actually contemptuous of the game, the players and the league, but then again I don't know the entire story because I just heard what I read in the news--and much of that comes from agents and players trying to get giant paydays (before the salary cap). So, say Elton Brand or Danny Manning or *whoever* are trying to get $100M 10 year deals back in the 90s and Sterling laughed and traded them or let them walk so sportswriters said he was a pariah in sports. However he also never went broke with his team, mismanaged his team salaries to the point where small market owners demanded a lockout and imposed this weird self-defeating CBA. Sterling never needed a CBA or a salary cap, actually, because if he thought a player was overpriced or didn't want to have a $200M payroll he just let the players walk and never cared if everybody said he was a terrible owner. And that isn't stupid: most of those mega-deals for players turn out to be dogs, from A-Rod with the yankees to Pujols with the Angels to Chandler, Rashard Lewis, Nash, etc etc in the NBA.

Again I've never been fond of Sterling and I think it is a great relief for the NBA to be rid of him. I also find it weird that the cost was $2 billion dollars, even though that was just fair open-market value apparently. I do grudgingly admire though the way the two of them stick together and fight all comers, them against the world, and don't even let mistresses and hookers and tons of money come between them. Even if I don't particularly like them I have to say that is kind of cool to have a partner like that. And we shouldn't get too overboard about how bad Sterling was; the recordings after all were made by a black woman who openly says she is really fond of him. He may be super racist or super prejudiced for all we know but he might also just be jealous and have issues with black guys or with his girlfriend liking black dick or whatever. It's all a learning experience and hopefully we are all more enlightened as a society after the past two months.

Also Sterling should certainly not be the "most hated man in America" that is ridiculous. You could throw a rock downtown and hit a mugger, molester, murderer, medicare scammer, mobster, multi-level marketer, misogynist, or maniac who probably is much more deserving of our collective "hate."

I mean I think we've all over-analyzed what Sterling said and got back and forth with this more than enough. But I can assure you that I am NOT racist and I won't break it down philosophically for you but I am probably just about as far from being a racist as you could possibly imagine. That doesn't mean that we can't rationally compare the differing cultures or belief systems of various population groups objectively, but as far as "race" is concerned we all come from the same human roots and we all have the same human "soul" or mind and I consider it primitive and foolish to judge people by the color of their skin, plain and simple.

CityofTreez
06-01-2014, 04:48 AM
Just admit it ssmush....

You're ecstatic that the Clippers owner can buy the Staples Center and call it home!

slashsnake
06-01-2014, 10:00 AM
However he also never went broke with his team, mismanaged his team salaries to the point where small market owners demanded a lockout and imposed this weird self-defeating CBA.

I do grudgingly admire though the way the two of them stick together and fight all comers, them against the world, and don't even let mistresses and hookers and tons of money come between them.

So they aren't criminals, just nice guys who won in court like OJ?

And you say he never went broke with his team? Stern had to step in and offer him a lifeline because he was unable to pay his players and was about to get kicked out of the league!!!

How is that not mismanaging his teams finances there? Where's the day when Mark Cuban told Dirk Nowitzki, "sorry I am broke, I'll try to pay you after a few more home game receipts"....

Yeah, he didn't take on a big contract and overpay anyone because he was unable to just pay them period. Have you seen his budget idea's?

Electric typewriters cost too much so he wanted to get a bunch of used manual ones for his offices.

He wanted to find ways to keep fans from going to games because he was having to pay security and parking attendants and just wanted the TV money! He truly wanted no one in the stands for his games.

He was putting on contests at half time, such as free throw contests and not paying the prize money, forcing them to take him to court to collect their winnings.

He couldn't get hotels to put his team up in for road games because he wouldn't pay their bills.

He couldn't find companies to wash the uniforms for the team because he wouldn't pay them.

He was trying to find out how to run a scouting dept on a $1000 budget (no wonder they didn't do well).

He was trying to find a way to run training camp and all the teams medical expenses to a $200 a year budget (this is serious).

He didn't replace injured players (picked up a pickup ball player who didn't even start in college to meet the NBA's requirement to field a minimum 8 man roster once) because he would have to pay them. He even dressed injured players that year so he could field a team when he was about to forfeit a game for only having 7 healthy players.

He asked his coach if he could just "tape the guys up" so he wouldn't have to get a team trainer.

He vetoed trades, even ones that could have gotten him all stars because he would have to pay them more.

He would have his scorers take assists away from his own guys in home games to try and keep their value down.

The league put a committee together of owners that unanimously voted to remove him from the league because he was mismanaging his teams money. He agreed to sell his team, they backed off, and then he backed off selling and with the help of Stern finally got above water.




And isn't Sterling suing his wife for a billion dollars now? How is that "sticking together" and not letting money or hookers come between them? She says they are estranged and she's going to divorce him, and he finds hookers and sues her for a billion bucks. Romance at its best.

mike_noodles
06-01-2014, 10:37 AM
Good thing they only sold for 2 billion and nobody overpaid.

Sssmush
06-01-2014, 09:08 PM
So they aren't criminals, just nice guys who won in court like OJ?

And you say he never went broke with his team? Stern had to step in and offer him a lifeline because he was unable to pay his players and was about to get kicked out of the league!!!

How is that not mismanaging his teams finances there? Where's the day when Mark Cuban told Dirk Nowitzki, "sorry I am broke, I'll try to pay you after a few more home game receipts"....

Yeah, he didn't take on a big contract and overpay anyone because he was unable to just pay them period. Have you seen his budget idea's?

Electric typewriters cost too much so he wanted to get a bunch of used manual ones for his offices.

He wanted to find ways to keep fans from going to games because he was having to pay security and parking attendants and just wanted the TV money! He truly wanted no one in the stands for his games.

He was putting on contests at half time, such as free throw contests and not paying the prize money, forcing them to take him to court to collect their winnings.

He couldn't get hotels to put his team up in for road games because he wouldn't pay their bills.

He couldn't find companies to wash the uniforms for the team because he wouldn't pay them.

He was trying to find out how to run a scouting dept on a $1000 budget (no wonder they didn't do well).

He was trying to find a way to run training camp and all the teams medical expenses to a $200 a year budget (this is serious).

He didn't replace injured players (picked up a pickup ball player who didn't even start in college to meet the NBA's requirement to field a minimum 8 man roster once) because he would have to pay them. He even dressed injured players that year so he could field a team when he was about to forfeit a game for only having 7 healthy players.

He asked his coach if he could just "tape the guys up" so he wouldn't have to get a team trainer.

He vetoed trades, even ones that could have gotten him all stars because he would have to pay them more.

He would have his scorers take assists away from his own guys in home games to try and keep their value down.

The league put a committee together of owners that unanimously voted to remove him from the league because he was mismanaging his teams money. He agreed to sell his team, they backed off, and then he backed off selling and with the help of Stern finally got above water.




And isn't Sterling suing his wife for a billion dollars now? How is that "sticking together" and not letting money or hookers come between them? She says they are estranged and she's going to divorce him, and he finds hookers and sues her for a billion bucks. Romance at its best.

Well, I haven't heard all of these allegations or stories that you're bringing up. As I understand it, having followed the stories peripherally over the years, the guy has money like unbeknownst. He started/owned one of the most prestigious law firms in Los Angeles and owns a ton of property. He is well known, in fact, for *never* having sold *anything*, ever. So the guy's net worth is way up there, and probably nobody even knows exactly how high. Also consider that he can throw a (what I would call) non-elite escort like V. Stiviano $1.8 million dollars just like nothing. I mean there's very few women in the entire world who wouldn't let you lick their *** for that kind of money, but he throws this local LA 30-year old $1.8m just because he likes her and she's his "silly rabbit" or whatever. I mean all respect to her because she is obviously good and has serious game, but I'm just pointing out that she isn't Kate Upton or something crazy like that. But the point is that Sterling clearly had a lot of money so that makes me wonder about stories that he couldn't afford to buy tape for the player's ankles or something.

Again I'm not defending Sterling, but let's keep things in perspective. When speaking about the Holocaust, Louis Farrakhan said truly horrible things like "when God puts you in the ovens, it's forever." And yet some NBA players like Kareem changed their names and said they had respect for him as a religious leader. Muhammad Ali spoke at a KKK rally, and openly admitted that he thought whites and blacks should be segregated, that he didn't believe that people of different "races" should live together. In the early days of the NBA I seriously doubt if many of the Southern states would even have allowed a basketball team with black players to play there.

So we should keep things in perspective. Sterling might seem prejudiced or racist or condescending or whatever to us, but by 1950's standards he's probably some kind of hippie or something. I mean he's owning an NBA team, having black women sit on his face, partying it up at Staples after games, whatever. Hardly a square. The guy's not perfect obviously but there are far worse people in the world than him. And we all learn, we all try to improve, right? It serves no purpose to make him a big scapegoat because the real problems are still out there.

LongIslandIcedZ
06-01-2014, 09:24 PM
Depends on what the owner wants. If they care about winning like Mark Cuban did when he bought the Mavs, or Ballmer does with the Clippers... any buyer would run FAR from the Lakers or Knicks right now. If all they care about is profit/merchandise sales, than I'd assume they could get 2.5 billion probably.

Remember.. the Clippers evaluation would still be top 5, even if other teams were up for sale right now. People act like the Clippers don't have a ton going for them.

The Lakers or Knicks are not nearly as good as the Clippers are right now, thats for sure. But if either team went up for sale, owners would never run far away.

The Clippers are not on hte level of either.