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View Full Version : If Scottie Pippen had been on the Pacers instead of the Bulls in the 90's....



Jeffy25
05-27-2014, 07:40 PM
If Pippen had been on the Pacers from Jan 1, 1990 to Dec 31, 1999


How different would the East have looked?

How many rings would Jordan have ended up with?

How many rings would the Pacers have won if any?


Pippen was a good defender and a good facilitator, and really an all-time great too.

But did Jordan need him for all 6 rings?

And would Miller and Pippen been able to win one or multiple together?

MassoDio
05-27-2014, 07:42 PM
Who would the replacement player be to put on the Bulls in his place? That would make a difference.

abe_froman
05-27-2014, 07:54 PM
If Pippen had been on the Pacers from Jan 1, 1990 to Dec 31, 1999


How different would the East have looked?
pretty different


How many rings would Jordan have ended up with?
depends on who they have instead of scottie.if its him alone than it ends up being jordan playing hero ball and getting his *** kicked.the 1980's proved he needed help,like every championship winning star does


How many rings would the Pacers have won if any?
probably none




But did Jordan need him for all 6 rings?
mj needed another all star/top 20 player in the league to win(like most star players do),so he needed scottie or someone on his level



And would Miller and Pippen been able to win one or multiple together?
it depends on what the rest of the pacers look like,thats just not a strong enough duo unless they built a very deep supporting team around them like pistons did for all their championships

ThuglifeJ
05-27-2014, 07:56 PM
Ppl always feel bar for pippen and what not saying hed be a star elsewhere...he's one of my favorite players ever, loved him as a kid, but what if Jordan made pippen better? What if all the competitive practices made pippen what he was.

Just a thought.

Jeffy25
05-27-2014, 07:58 PM
Who would the replacement player be to put on the Bulls in his place? That would make a difference.

For this hypothetical, someone already on the bulls rosters (obviously they would have addressed that at some point, but let's go with a bench option for sake of ease).

Hardaway Here
05-27-2014, 08:02 PM
Jordan would still win rings. Not sure about the Pacers. Pippen said himself playing with Jordan made him the player he turned out to be so yeah idk what would of become of that Pacers team. Not to say Pippen couldn't turn out that way anyway, but it's obvious playing with MJ made it happen sooner than later.

FlashBolt
05-27-2014, 08:13 PM
Raises the question, would Pippen stop Jordan? That would be damn hell exciting to watch. Pippen was a good passer with extraordinary defense. I don't think anyone can stop Jordan but wow, Pippen/Miller would be a very competitive SF/SG duo.

I would say Jordan would have 4 rings with Pacers having one.

Jeffy25
05-27-2014, 08:15 PM
^ that's what I was really thinking of

Pippen would be guarding Jordan in any playoff series'.

And potentially, he could at least slow him down.

And if Jordan didn't have another strong option, that might limit him all together.

Not that Pippen and Miller would be a strong scoring tandem together, I do believe they could at least get to some Finals.

Jeffy25
05-27-2014, 08:16 PM
Jordan would still win rings. Not sure about the Pacers. Pippen said himself playing with Jordan made him the player he turned out to be so yeah idk what would of become of that Pacers team. Not to say Pippen couldn't turn out that way anyway, but it's obvious playing with MJ made it happen sooner than later.

Maybe those one-on-ones would have been with Miller, and that would have made Pippen just as good or possibly at least close to as good?

ramsizzle
05-27-2014, 08:18 PM
Pippen didn't become Pippen until he started getting his butt handed to him in practice daily by Jordan. So I assume he does not become the player he is known as today.

Assuming the bulls get a player of that caliber then it stays the same 6 rings. MAYBE 5 rings and the pacers squeaking passed the bulls in 1998.

Jeffy25
05-27-2014, 08:21 PM
Pippen didn't become Pippen until he started getting his butt handed to him in practice daily by Jordan. So I assume he does not become the player he is known as today.
well when did those practices begin then?

Pippen started out in Chicago.

ramsizzle
05-27-2014, 08:25 PM
well when did those practices begin then?

Pippen started out in Chicago.

so pippen left via FA to indy in this scenario? depending on the year the bulls go get themselves a tmac type player
or if it is late enough it would be tmac himself. Jerry did like him a lot.

though that tidbit makes it more interesting. Jordan was the best of the three and i trust in jordan, so my prediction stays the same.

Deutsch Konig
05-27-2014, 08:27 PM
What if the sun was the moon and the moon was the sun?
Would night be day and day be night?

Big Zo
05-27-2014, 08:31 PM
If Jordan didn't have Pippen, he'd do what he currently swears in hindsight that he wouldn't have done, and join a team with another star player or two.

Hawkeye15
05-27-2014, 08:32 PM
people really underestimate how good Pippen was. Jordan was already amazing individually, when Pippen finally grew into being a great player, and they were able to knock off the Pistons in 1991 because of his growth (amongst other things, but even the Pistons players from that year have stated he was the biggest reason the Bulls jumped to a chip team, instead of just a good team with the best player on the planet on it).

Though, the Bulls would have made other moves, so we have no idea.

But Pippen was integral for every chip they won.

On the Pacers, I think he would have been enough if you just slapped him on the roster without thinking about who would realistically be left out because of his addition, to win a couple of titles for sure. Great PG, great shooter, interior that was physical and understood how to help their perimeter players maximize, and hey, they would have had possibly the best individual in the game to guard MJ.

abe_froman
05-27-2014, 08:33 PM
Not that Pippen and Miller would be a strong scoring tandem together, I do believe they could at least get to some Finals.
get to some ,sure.the east would be a 3/4 team race(bulls,knicks,pacers,magic) that would rotate the conf. winner,but i doubt any of them beat the west winners

Hawkeye15
05-27-2014, 08:37 PM
get to some ,sure.the east would be a 3/4 team race(bulls,knicks,pacers,magic) that would rotate the conf. winner,but i doubt any of them beat the west winners

they could potentially, but that was also the era of the dominant big man (sans MJ), so I do agree they would have a hard time beating any west team constructed with a Jackson/Miller/Pippen/Davis/Smits team.

But, it is possible.

abe_froman
05-27-2014, 08:49 PM
they could potentially, but that was also the era of the dominant big man (sans MJ), so I do agree they would have a hard time beating any west team constructed with a Jackson/Miller/Pippen/Davis/Smits team.

But, it is possible.

their best shot wold be '98,the rest i cant see them standing much of a chance against

Shlumpledink
05-27-2014, 08:49 PM
Pacers would be a better team for sure, and I don't think Jordan wins as many as he does, if he wins at all. Pippen was integral to their championships, I don't think Phil Jackson, or anybody who was within the Bulls organization would tell you any differently.

You may find talking heads, and fans tell you differently, but I don't believe anyone in the no would say differently or has alluding to that in any effect.

Pippen was the point guard of that triangle, and the best defender on the team. Playing defense against Jordan would be very interesting to say the least. Would Pippen be as good a defender if he didn't have Jordan to defend against in practice every day? Probably not, but he had the defensive knowhow, desire, and special combination of length and athleticism that was second to none in basketball at the time. Michael Cooper is the only one close, and I believe pippen was actually longer, and stronger than Coop was.

The combination of the Pacers getting stronger, and the Bulls getting weaker makes me think Jordan faces greater struggles to get into offense, and struggles on defense since they don't have the twoheaded monster of Pippen and Jordan.

Jeffy25
05-27-2014, 08:57 PM
they could potentially, but that was also the era of the dominant big man (sans MJ), so I do agree they would have a hard time beating any west team constructed with a Jackson/Miller/Pippen/Davis/Smits team.

But, it is possible.


Maybe the Jazz, Suns, or Sonics?

I don't see them beating the Rockets

Reminds me a bit of the Warriors when they had Chris Mullen, Hardaway, and Richmond

Bruno
05-27-2014, 09:24 PM
wow. cool hypothetical i've never considered. Pippen/Reggie. nice.

FlashBolt
05-27-2014, 09:43 PM
I don't think people even know Reggie/Pippen were drafted in the same year. Back to what Hawkeye was saying, people do give too much credit for Jordan and not enough to Pippen. He was a complete stud at UCA and often forgotten, Pippen was 3rd in MVP voting the year Jordan first retired and was also All NBA First Team, NBA All Star MVP, and furthermore led them to 55 wins. They were also seconds away from getting into the Eastern Conference Finals. I seriously think people underestimate Pippen. Greatest defender of all time and certainly one of the all around legends.

Hawkeye15
05-27-2014, 10:02 PM
Maybe the Jazz, Suns, or Sonics?

I don't see them beating the Rockets

Reminds me a bit of the Warriors when they had Chris Mullen, Hardaway, and Richmond

The Pacers would probably struggle against the Sonics, with Payton able to temper Jackson, and Kemp probably not being stopped by the front line of Indiana.

The Suns, and Jazz pose the same problems. Literally. But yes, those would have been their chances, if they didn't need to deal with interior bigs.

The biggest issue here is, Pippen's value may have come far more in the eastern conference side of the playoffs, though I am not saying he wasn't a huge contributor in the finals. I just mean for pure matchup purposes.

KnickNyKnick
05-27-2014, 10:37 PM
uh, did the op recently watch the new xmen movie?

Jeffy25
05-27-2014, 11:13 PM
^ no

flea
05-27-2014, 11:17 PM
If this scenario occurred I think Hakeem's Rockets, Drexler's Blazers, and the Jazz would have split the championships abandoned by the Bulls. We'd be talking about the West's dominance over the last 25 years instead of just the last 15.

smiddy012
05-27-2014, 11:46 PM
Pippen didn't become Pippen until he started getting his butt handed to him in practice daily by Jordan. So I assume he does not become the player he is known as today.

Assuming the bulls get a player of that caliber then it stays the same 6 rings. MAYBE 5 rings and the pacers squeaking passed the bulls in 1998.

Yeah... Pippen did certainly take time to develop into a star, unlike MJ.

Shlumpledink
05-28-2014, 01:30 AM
uh, did the op recently watch the new xmen movie?


Did Pippen play for the pacers in the end credits scene? That would be like depicting the end of the world as we know it

IKnowHoops
05-28-2014, 06:24 AM
If Pippen had been on the Pacers from Jan 1, 1990 to Dec 31, 1999


How different would the East have looked?

How many rings would Jordan have ended up with?

How many rings would the Pacers have won if any?


Pippen was a good defender and a good facilitator, and really an all-time great too.

But did Jordan need him for all 6 rings?

And would Miller and Pippen been able to win one or multiple together?

If the bulls just didn't have him with no replacement then jordan has zero rings. Easy as that.

slashsnake
05-28-2014, 11:38 AM
If the bulls just didn't have him with no replacement then jordan has zero rings. Easy as that.

I don't know.. no first threepeat for Jordan probably gives you a lineup with Jordan, Ewing, Oakley, Pat Riley, etc.

I think Chicago would have made some big moves to find talent to put around him rather than let him go.

Lo Porto
05-28-2014, 12:02 PM
Pacers would be a better team for sure, and I don't think Jordan wins as many as he does, if he wins at all. Pippen was integral to their championships, I don't think Phil Jackson, or anybody who was within the Bulls organization would tell you any differently.

You may find talking heads, and fans tell you differently, but I don't believe anyone in the no would say differently or has alluding to that in any effect.

Pippen was the point guard of that triangle, and the best defender on the team. Playing defense against Jordan would be very interesting to say the least. Would Pippen be as good a defender if he didn't have Jordan to defend against in practice every day? Probably not, but he had the defensive knowhow, desire, and special combination of length and athleticism that was second to none in basketball at the time. Michael Cooper is the only one close, and I believe pippen was actually longer, and stronger than Coop was.

The combination of the Pacers getting stronger, and the Bulls getting weaker makes me think Jordan faces greater struggles to get into offense, and struggles on defense since they don't have the twoheaded monster of Pippen and Jordan.

Excellent post and dead on.

The last time I checked, Jordan never won anything without Scottie Pippen. Their combination brought out the best in Jordan. Jordan had a reputation for being a top defender (and even won a Defensive Player of the Year Award), but Pippen was the true perimeter defender on that team. Phil has even said that. Jordan was the star on offense with Pippen supporting and Pippen was the star on defense with Jordan supporting. Pippen did all the little stuff that Jordan didn't really want to do or really wasn't that great at (loose balls, defending 1-4, rebounding, passing, etc.).

So to answer the thread's hypothetical question - if you were to switch Derrick McKey with Scottie Pippen, I think an Indiana with Reggie and Pippen win more titles than MJ's Bulls. Jordan was determined enough, Phil was good enough, and the Chicago FO was ambitious enough to win at least one title. But Mark Jackson, Reggie Miller, Scottie Pippen, and whatever the combo was down low was as good as anybody in that era. Definitely better than a Scottieless Bulls of the first threepeat.