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View Full Version : Can Miami win WITHOUT Chris Bosh?



diu9leilomo
05-25-2014, 11:42 AM
Other than the first round, bosh played horrible, he plays like bargnani, doesn't rebound and only shoots 3s. However, the Heat is winning thanks to LBJ Wade and Allen. We all know he'll be gone if they Heat lose. The question is can they win it all with bosh playing like a girl?? If they do, does it mean Bosh will be gone next year regardless?? Is he still a max player??

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 11:47 AM
Clearly not a max player but they won't win without him. Maybe it's a matchup problem, but as a player, he has to adjust. Especially when you're regarded as a big one of the big three, you have to play like one. James/Wade are doing their part, it's time for Bosh to do his. I can get not rebounding, but you have to make your shots. He's a matchup problem because he is quick and has a shot. Defense is a liability but he does have his moments. They won't win without him but if they had someone such as Kevin Love, they wouldn't need Bosh anyways.

ATX
05-25-2014, 11:49 AM
Other than the first round, bosh played horrible, he plays like bargnani, doesn't rebound and only shoots 3s. However, the Heat is winning thanks to LBJ Wade and Allen. We all know he'll be gone if they Heat lose. The question is can they win it all with bosh playing like a girl?? If they do, does it mean Bosh will be gone next year regardless?? Is he still a max player??

Bosh is integral to the Heats style of play. Sure he's been off the last several games, but he impacts the game in ways that don't show up on the stat sheet. He took less than the max, and to the Heat, yes is worth every penny. He's a great fit, especially with his unselfishness and ability to set aside his ego. How do you know he's leaving if Miami loses? If he did, as a second option, he is clearly capable of putting up 20+ with 8-10 boards a game. He get's way too much disrespect, especially for a great TEAM player. Bargnani? Seriously?

IndyRealist
05-25-2014, 12:00 PM
I think he's is, has been, and always will be, a horrible fit with Lebron and Wade. Bosh was a 24/12/2 player his last year in Toronto, and widely considered a top 5 PF. The system the Heat run is predicated on the playmaking of Wade and Lebron, not the low block scoring of Bosh. Rings are great, and playing with your friends is nice, but he really hurt his legacy by sacrificing so much more than anyone else to make that team work.

I'd love to see him opt out and put up 20/10 somewhere else.

ManRam
05-25-2014, 12:05 PM
As currently constructed, the Heat need him. They just have so little up front. Thing is, he's really not producing any less than last year. Is the team as a whole as good as last year? No. Are the Spurs better than last year? I think so. So it might not be enough for him to just play like a slightly-better-than-role-player like he has been the last two years. I don't think they can beat the Spurs without Wade or Bosh playing like absolute super stars. We see flashes from Wade, but nothing consistent for a while now. So I'm not banking on them beating the Spurs.

I do think if they let him go they could replace him effectively for much less in the off season, however. They just couldn't do it with the guys they currently have.


The Bargnani comp is just silly, though. He's clearly far superior than Bargs. A lot of this has to do with the role he's asked to play. He's just not the ideal fit for a big man playing with LeBron and Wade. It clearly has worked well-enough, but it's not quite optimal IMO.

slaker619
05-25-2014, 12:08 PM
Nah .

nycericanguy
05-25-2014, 12:08 PM
Seems like every year Bosh becomes more and more of an after thought. His minutes, rebounds and scoring have been in steady decline every year he's been in MIA/

And yes he has become a glorified Bargs to a degree. His first year in MIA Bosh attempted 6.1 FT's per game, this year down to 3.4... a career low. Now he's down to being a 13 & 5 guy on 47% in the playoffs.

Wouldn't be surprised to see him opt out. You wonder just how happy he is down there.

ATX
05-25-2014, 12:08 PM
I think he's is, has been, and always will be, a horrible fit with Lebron and Wade. Bosh was a 24/12/2 player his last year in Toronto, and widely considered a top 5 PF. The system the Heat run is predicated on the playmaking of Wade and Lebron, not the low block scoring of Bosh. Rings are great, and playing with your friends is nice, but he really hurt his legacy by sacrificing so much more than anyone else to make that team work.

I'd love to see him opt out and put up 20/10 somewhere else.

How is he a horrible fit with James and Wade? Of course his stats were going to take the biggest hit, going from a #1 option to a #3. It's that unselfishness that makes him so valuable to the Heat. Not many players would be willing to do that in their primes for the greater good. He's making great money, and will continue to do so with the Heat. I think him wining rings and having the best chance to win rings by staying with the Heat is paramount to him beefing up his stat resume. Besides as Wade declines, Bosh will step in as the #2 option. I think if anything it helps his legacy. Winning rings or being a 20/10 player on a 1 and done team for years? The rings will be remembered, averaging 20/10 on a losing team will not.

ManRam
05-25-2014, 12:15 PM
How is he a horrible fit with James and Wade? Of course his stats were going to take the biggest hit, going from a #1 option to a #3. It's that unselfishness that makes him so valuable to the Heat. Not many players would be willing to do that in their primes for the greater good. He's making great money, and will continue to do so with the Heat. I think him wining rings and having the best chance to win rings by staying with the Heat is paramount to him beefing up his stat resume. Besides as Wade declines, Bosh will step in as the #2 option. I think it anything if helps his legacy. Winning rings or being a 20/10 player on a 1 and done team for years? The rings will be remembered, averaging 20/10 on a losing team will not.

His intangibles make him a great fit, for sure. I just think that, even in today's NBA, they could use a more "traditional" big man. A defensive stopper. A great rebounder. A guy who doesn't do the vast majority of his work outside the paint. I get how Bosh helps with spacing, however. But still. Their shortcomings have long been because of interior size.

He's not a bad fit. In many ways he's a great fit (spacing, selflessness, passing, agility, etc.). I just don't think it's quite optimal. I don't think it's a fluke that the lineup has done SOOOO much better with Birdman out there these playoffs, especially this series.

nycericanguy
05-25-2014, 12:23 PM
His intangibles make him a great fit, for sure. I just think that, even in today's NBA, they could use a more "traditional" big man. A defensive stopper. A great rebounder. A guy who doesn't do the vast majority of his work outside the paint. I get how Bosh helps with spacing, however. But still. Their shortcomings have long been because of interior size.

He's not a bad fit. In many ways he's a great fit (spacing, selflessness, passing, agility, etc.). I just don't think it's quite optimal. I don't think it's a fluke that the lineup has done SOOOO much better with Birdman out there these playoffs, especially this series.

a guy like Tyson Chandler would make MIA a better team IMO... with a stretch 4 like Ryan Anderson or Gallo or even a younger Battier.

This would never happen but Tyson & Shump for Bosh would benefit both teams. Shump can be that 3 & D Battier type for them.

Tyson
LBJ
Shump
Wade
Chalmers

ATX
05-25-2014, 12:32 PM
His intangibles make him a great fit, for sure. I just think that, even in today's NBA, they could use a more "traditional" big man. A defensive stopper. A great rebounder. A guy who doesn't do the vast majority of his work outside the paint. I get how Bosh helps with spacing, however. But still. Their shortcomings have long been because of interior size.

He's not a bad fit. In many ways he's a great fit (spacing, selflessness, passing, agility, etc.). I just don't think it's quite optimal. I don't think it's a fluke that the lineup has done SOOOO much better with Birdman out there these playoffs, especially this series.

Oh for sure I agree with all of this. I do think they need a legitimate traditional big man presence for the team. Anderson has played valiantly in his time for the Heat, but he's getting old, and just can't provide the needed minutes. Bosh posting up with players who have 30/40 pounds on him is something that Bosh is becoming more agitated doing. According to him it's zapping his energy, and therefore is affecting his game in other areas.

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 12:46 PM
a guy like Tyson Chandler would make MIA a better team IMO... with a stretch 4 like Ryan Anderson or Gallo or even a younger Battier.

This would never happen but Tyson & Shump for Bosh would benefit both teams. Shump can be that 3 & D Battier type for them.

Tyson
LBJ
Shump
Wade
Chalmers

Good for Miami and for NYK imo. Bosh could be a 20+/8 rebs player with his own squad.

85BearsDefense
05-25-2014, 12:59 PM
Miami wouldn't trade a top 25 player for 2 scrubs. Yes Shumpert and Chandler are scrubs.

naps
05-25-2014, 01:02 PM
a guy like Tyson Chandler would make MIA a better team IMO... with a stretch 4 like Ryan Anderson or Gallo or even a younger Battier.

This would never happen but Tyson & Shump for Bosh would benefit both teams. Shump can be that 3 & D Battier type for them.

Tyson
LBJ
Shump
Wade
Chalmers

No thank you. Tyson Chandler is not the same player anymore and I want no part of Shump. Bosh is infinitely better. Don't just look at the boxscore when judging players; What Bosh does for the Heat is never shown on the stat sheet.

nycericanguy
05-25-2014, 01:04 PM
No thank you. Tyson Chandler is not the same player anymore and I want no part of Shump. Bosh is infinitely better. Don't just look at the boxscore when judging players; What Bosh does for the Heat is never shown on the stat sheet.

lol Bosh isn't Jason Kidd man...

Bosh gets them 15 points or so, Tyson gets you 10 on much fewer shots, except he's better on D, rebounding and just gives them more size.

MIA would be beast on D if you added Shump & Tyson to that team.

diu9leilomo
05-25-2014, 01:18 PM
Spo should adjust the lineup tho, bosh should go back to 4 and put birdman starting 5. The term spacing is being over used, Lebron can pretty much get to the rim without "spacing"

PurpleLynch
05-25-2014, 01:18 PM
They can win against the Pacers,but against SA Bosh must do his duty if the Heat want to complete the three peat. Otherwise Duncan will beast and feast on him in the paint.

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 01:23 PM
This is just a matchup problem, though. Bosh has always struggled against the Pacers during the Hibbert era in the playoffs. It's just not his type of game. Against Spurs, I feel will be a better matchup for him because it fits his type of game more. I think every fan is just disappointed that he's making $20 million and isn't adjusting to changes. It's been evident that the Pacers were Miami's biggest rival coming to the EC and he still hasn't figured out a way to become an impact. I will say, though. If he picks it up along with Wade staying healthy the rest of the playoffs, it's going to be an interesting playoffs. Right now, Spurs look like the champs.

HuRRiCaNeS324
05-25-2014, 01:59 PM
We won last year without Bosh...

He did the same **** last year. I honestly can't stand Bosh anymore, he just isn't reliable when the game means a lot.

Jamiecballer
05-25-2014, 02:14 PM
Yeah he's a really bad fit. You could move Bosh but I'd argue it makes more sense to move one of Wade/Lebron and play a more conventional lineup.

smith&wesson
05-25-2014, 02:29 PM
Bosh is still among the best powerforwards in the league. its not his fault spolstra has no clue on how to use him.

He isn't a spot up shooter, but that's exactly how spo uses him... he can do much, much more than spotting up and shooting the open jumper.. but that's how he is being utilized. as if allen, beasly, lewis, cole, chalmers cant fill that role easily, they needed one of the big three to also fill that role

:facepalm: I don't know how spo is still the coach of that team.

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 02:35 PM
Bosh is still among the best powerforwards in the league. its not his fault spolstra has no clue on how to use him.

He isn't a spot up shooter, but that's exactly how spo uses him... he can do much, much more than spotting up and shooting the open jumper.. but that's how he is being utilized. as if allen, beasly, lewis, cole, chalmers cant fill that role easily, they needed one of the big three to also fill that role

:facepalm: I don't know how spo is still the coach of that team.

I agree that Spo isn't a really good coach but stop making excuses for Bosh. No one is forcing Bosh to not grab rebounds. Heck, his defense seems lazy 99% of the time. He doesn't put up 100% when he plays because there is no way Andersen is outrebounding Bosh while playing much less minutes. He's not amongst the "best". Barely cracking top 10.

Davis
Duncan
Blake
Love
Monroe
Jefferson
Nowitzki
Aldridge
Randolph
Gasol
David Lee

He's borderline cracking it. When you can't score, you find other ways to help your team and he hasn't done that the past two years. When you get paid $20,000,000 and take up a huge portion of the salary cap, you best damn well perform like it. I'm pretty sure LeBron and Wade/Miami front office are taking notice of this.

beasted86
05-25-2014, 02:42 PM
I don't get this annoying forum.

Every five seconds there are people complaining about there being too many HEAT threads, but then its a bunch on non Miami HEAT fans that feel the need to start 100 threads about the team in the NBA Forum and even the HEAT Forum about all of the "problems" with the team.

Wade sits out too many games and his knees are done, the HEAT can win without him
Bosh is soft and can't rebound, the HEAT can win without him
Battier is old and too small, the HEAT can win without him
Spoelstra can't develop young talent, and doesn't know how to use players, the HEAT can win without him
Chalmers is a turnover machine and not that good, the HEAT can win without him
Rashard Lewis is old and can't rebound, the HEAT can win without him
Greg Oden is injury prone, the HEAT can win without him

Etc.etc..etc..etc...

The HEAT are somehow a broken, inherently flawed team that need fixing and everybody knows how to fix them better than Pat Riley and Spoelstra on who should play, coach, be traded, and signed despite the team getting to the Finals every year and winning multiple championships. You've got to love PSD.

The only place where winning multiple championships means you need to break up your team, because you really can't win..... even though you are winning....... but you can't.

beasted86
05-25-2014, 02:46 PM
I agree that Spo isn't a really good coach but stop making excuses for Bosh. No one is forcing Bosh to not grab rebounds. Heck, his defense seems lazy 99% of the time. He doesn't put up 100% when he plays because there is no way Andersen is outrebounding Bosh while playing much less minutes. He's not amongst the "best". Barely cracking top 10.

Davis
Duncan
Blake
Love
Monroe
Jefferson
Nowitzki
Aldridge
Randolph
Gasol
David Lee

He's borderline cracking it. When you can't score, you find other ways to help your team and he hasn't done that the past two years. When you get paid $20,000,000 and take up a huge portion of the salary cap, you best damn well perform like it. I'm pretty sure LeBron and Wade/Miami front office are taking notice of this.
They are taking notice that instead of him helping them win championships, he has only been helping them win championships?

smith&wesson
05-25-2014, 02:48 PM
I agree that Spo isn't a really good coach but stop making excuses for Bosh. No one is forcing Bosh to not grab rebounds. Heck, his defense seems lazy 99% of the time. He doesn't put up 100% when he plays because there is no way Andersen is outrebounding Bosh while playing much less minutes. He's not amongst the "best". Barely cracking top 10.

Davis
Duncan
Blake
Love
Monroe
Jefferson
Nowitzki
Aldridge
Randolph
Gasol
David Lee

He's borderline cracking it. When you can't score, you find other ways to help your team and he hasn't done that the past two years. When you get paid $20,000,000 and take up a huge portion of the salary cap, you best damn well perform like it. I'm pretty sure LeBron and Wade/Miami front office are taking notice of this.

do any of those other guys you listed play with 2 superstars on their team that they have to share the ball with ? when bosh was in Toronto he was averaging like 24 and 11 before he went to the heat. its not hard to get inflated stats. He is better than most of those players. . just in a different circumstance. If bosh played for a team as the first or second option he would be better than half the players you listed up there.

Also I'm not making excuses for bosh. when your parked on the 3 point line to "stretch the floor" its pretty dam hard to grab rebounds. Im just saying, they don't use him right, and then people scortch him. I think the guy can easily average 20-10 its not a talent issue that's for sure. Its the fact that he isn't involved enough or utilized to his strengths..

they ask him to be a 3&D type player, a spot up shooter. that's not what or who he is. if that's what they need they should just trade him for that need..

imo they should move bosh back to the 4 and start birdman or oden at the 5 vs teams with more traditional line ups like the spurs or pacers.

smith&wesson
05-25-2014, 03:00 PM
I don't get this annoying forum.

Every five seconds there are people complaining about there being too many HEAT threads, but then its a bunch on non Miami HEAT fans that feel the need to start 100 threads about the team in the NBA Forum and even the HEAT Forum about all of the "problems" with the team.

Wade sits out too many games and his knees are done, the HEAT can win without him
Bosh is soft and can't rebound, the HEAT can win without him
Battier is old and too small, the HEAT can win without him
Spoelstra can't develop young talent, and doesn't know how to use players, the HEAT can win without him
Chalmers is a turnover machine and not that good, the HEAT can win without him
Rashard Lewis is old and can't rebound, the HEAT can win without him
Greg Oden is injury prone, the HEAT can win without him

Etc.etc..etc..etc...

The HEAT are somehow a broken, inherently flawed team that need fixing and everybody knows how to fix them better than Pat Riley and Spoelstra on who should play, coach, be traded, and signed despite the team getting to the Finals every year and winning multiple championships. You've got to love PSD.

The only place where winning multiple championships means you need to break up your team, because you really can't win..... even though you are winning....... but you can't.

I agree with most of this. until the heat lose, no one can say what they are doing is not working....

But I will say this, from watching the playoffs this season and last season and seeing how spo utilizes bosh its become clear that LeBron and a healthy Wade can get the job done with out bosh. That means that bosh can be moved for assets to help the future of the team...to me this is pretty good news for heat fans. you get the win now + gain assets that will help them in the near future. best of both worlds.

diu9leilomo
05-25-2014, 03:04 PM
do any of those other guys you listed play with 2 superstars on their team that they have to share the ball with ? when bosh was in Toronto he was averaging like 24 and 11 before he went to the heat. its not hard to get inflated stats. He is better than most of those players. . just in a different circumstance. If bosh played for a team as the first or second option he would be better than half the players you listed up there.

Also I'm not making excuses for bosh. when your parked on the 3 point line to "stretch the floor" its pretty dam hard to grab rebounds. Im just saying, they don't use him right, and then people scortch him. I think the guy can easily average 20-10 its not a talent issue that's for sure. Its the fact that he isn't involved enough or utilized to his strengths..

they ask him to be a 3&D type player, a spot up shooter. that's not what or who he is. if that's what they need they should just trade him for that need..

imo they should move bosh back to the 4 and start birdman or oden at the 5 vs teams with more traditional line ups like the spurs or pacers.

You have a point, but if you watched the pacer series, theres A LOT of times bosh can drive and score in the paint or draw fouls, david west is too slow to guard bosh. But instead, he just pull up for contested jumpers. It exactly how bargnani plays in his last tenure as a raptor. I think he won't avg another 20/10 as a 1st option anymore, its mental. His physical condition still in prime, but its his mental that declined significantly.

beasted86
05-25-2014, 03:09 PM
I agree with most of this. until the heat lose, no one can say what they are doing is not working....

But I will say this, from watching the playoffs this season and last season and seeing how spo utilizes bosh its become clear that LeBron and a healthy Wade can get the job done with out bosh. That means that bosh can be moved for assets to help the future of the team...to me this is pretty good news for heat fans. you get the win now + gain assets that ill help them in the near future. best of both worlds.

Can you guys provide some examples of teams trading their 2nd-3rd options and repeating as champions? Because I can't name many. Glen Rice on the Lakers? Kobe improved drastically and the dynamic of the team didn't change. Adrian Dantley for Aguirre? Again the team dynamic didn't change, they simply got scoring from Aguirre as well as other players.

On the other hand, people want to trade/not re-sign Bosh, but simultaneously think the team needs to change its dynamic from the one they have been winning multiple championships with, because clearly, what hasn't been able to win, is what actually will be able to win, and is much better than what is already winning.... :facepalm:

This is my biggest issue with people saying we need to move Bosh.

jerellh528
05-25-2014, 03:10 PM
I don't think so, bosh is secretly the key to Miami. He hits big time shots and takes pressure off james and wade. He might not have the best stat sheet, but his presence is needed. Even of they could get pasts eastern foes without bosh, no way they get past San Antonio.

NoahH
05-25-2014, 03:11 PM
Bosh is severely underrated and gets alot of unwarranted flack. If Bosh went somewhere like Boston next year and started and was the #1 or #2 option he would average 22-8 or so guaranteed

diu9leilomo
05-25-2014, 03:18 PM
Can you guys provide some examples of teams trading their 2nd-3rd options and repeating as champions? Because I can't name many. Glen Rice on the Lakers? Kobe improved drastically and the dynamic of the team didn't change. Adrian Dantley for Aguirre? Again the team dynamic didn't change, they simply got scoring from Aguirre as well as other players.

On the other hand, people want to trade/not re-sign Bosh, but simultaneously think the team needs to change its dynamic from the one they have been winning multiple championships with, because clearly, what hasn't been able to win, is what actually will be able to win.... :facepalm:

This is my biggest issue with people saying we need to move Bosh.

Its obvious the Heat need to move Bosh. The guy is not happy and not producing. You want to pay someone 20mil and avg single digits in ECF?? Whens the last time you see him fire up? Whens the last time he drive and draw fouls? I don' know if hes lazy or what, but he is not producing. Hes no secret key to miami, its proven he is unnecessary to the team. He played like a beast during the finals against the mavs, but they loss.

smith&wesson
05-25-2014, 03:22 PM
Can you guys provide some examples of teams trading their 2nd-3rd options and repeating as champions? Because I can't name many. Glen Rice on the Lakers? Kobe improved drastically and the dynamic of the team didn't change. Adrian Dantley for Aguirre? Again the team dynamic didn't change, they simply got scoring from Aguirre as well as other players.

On the other hand, people want to trade/not re-sign Bosh, but simultaneously think the team needs to change its dynamic from the one they have been winning multiple championships with, because clearly, what hasn't been able to win, is what actually will be able to win, and is much better than what is already winning.... :facepalm:

This is my biggest issue with people saying we need to move Bosh.

Are you assuming you wouldn't get a player of equal value in return ? All I was saying, is if your still winning with out getting great production out of bosh, you can use him as trade bait to find another really good player that serves the needs of the team more..

Never said Miami "needs" to move bosh. Im just saying if it improves them further by doing so its an option. The guys not being used right at all.. it would almost seem beneficial to Miami to move him for a player that compliments Wade and Lebron more...

smith&wesson
05-25-2014, 03:25 PM
You have a point, but if you watched the pacer series, theres A LOT of times bosh can drive and score in the paint or draw fouls, david west is too slow to guard bosh. But instead, he just pull up for contested jumpers. It exactly how bargnani plays in his last tenure as a raptor. I think he won't avg another 20/10 as a 1st option anymore, its mental. His physical condition still in prime, but its his mental that declined significantly.

he did that in Toronto too. I hated it.. he stopped driving to the rim after his 3rd season or something like that. contested 17 footers all day long.

Jamiecballer
05-25-2014, 03:26 PM
You guys are dumb. In the playoffs you put the ball in your best guys hands even more than usual. That reduces Bosh to a spectator a lot of the time.

beasted86
05-25-2014, 03:33 PM
Are you assuming you wouldn't get a player of equal value in return ? All I was saying, is if your still winning with out getting great production out of bosh, you can use him as trade bait to find another really good player that serves the needs of the team more..

Never said Miami "needs" to move bosh. Im just saying if it improves them further by doing so its an option. The guys not being used right at all.. it would almost seem beneficial to Miami to move him for a player that compliments Wade and Lebron more...
I am a HEAT Fan, not a Bosh fan. If moving Bosh improves the team, so be it. But most of the time I'm not hearing names that compliment the team or LeBron and Wade better.

Instead I'm hearing about how we need this back to the basket player to win, or a guy who isn't effective outside 10 feet from the rim. You don't know how many times I've heard that nonsense Omer Asik for Bosh garbage. At least 1000 times already.

Most people don't appreciate the impact Bosh has on the team and opposing defenses. How many games has Bosh bailed the HEAT out with a huge 3 in the clutch? How many times has the opponent pulled players, such as infamously Hibbert last playoffs, simply because of Bosh's ability to spread the floor?

This is what I'm talking about with finding whatever means necessary to improve the team, but not change the dynamic of the team, when we are winning with this current dynamic.

My position is if this dynamic works, and Bosh's full potential is a 24/11 caliber player, there's nobody on the open market who will provide this same dynamic, along with the chemistry already built, so the solution is simple... just use him better. The team doesn't need to trade him away unless there is a remarkable upgrade that still lets us play to the style we have been playing.

Nobody here is going to convince me that changing our bigs to lane cloggers will improve the team, so nobody should waste the effort.

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 03:35 PM
They are taking notice that instead of him helping them win championships, he has only been helping them win championships?

There's a difference between helping and being the guy who grabs the rebound for one play and then have all his errors removed or something. I'm not denying that Bosh isn't helpful. I'm just stating that his inconsistencies are something Miami can't ignore in the off-season. Yes, he grabbed that huge rebound but who's to say such rebound is required if he had PLAYED to the level of expectations? Don't get me wrong, Bosh is a good player but do you really think he's worth $20,000,000? You should know better. Miami will keep Wade and Bron over anyone on the roster. If LeBron doesn't think they'll win and searches for another team, Miami has to seek options. Do you think Bosh is someone they'll think of disposing? If not, who else? You're getting the wrong idea. I never said Bosh wasn't a good player; just stating he needs to stay consistent and do more.

@Smith&Wesson, don't compare Bosh from Toronto to Bosh of Miami. Bosh of Toronto was more active and aggressive in getting boards. This Bosh seems much to feminine. +, Wade was off plenty of the games that Bosh was starting and he NEVER produced spectacular results. It was why they lost because James was the only player carrying them. In the games Wade hasn't played, Bosh averaged mediocre numbers. It's not an excuse. He's parked on the 3 point line because he said so himself, he found out that 3 is more than 2 and that he can't bang on the paint because he's TIRED.

beasted86
05-25-2014, 03:40 PM
Its obvious the Heat need to move Bosh. The guy is not happy and not producing. You want to pay someone 20mil and avg single digits in ECF?? Whens the last time you see him fire up? Whens the last time he drive and draw fouls? I don' know if hes lazy or what, but he is not producing. Hes no secret key to miami, its proven he is unnecessary to the team. He played like a beast during the finals against the mavs, but they loss.

Obvious to who? somebody who isn't a fan of the team?
Possibly somebody who doesn't want to continue seeing them win?
He's is unnecessary because you said so?

Sorry, but I watch all the HEAT games and pay close attention to how he impacts the game. I'm glad Spo and the rest of the team along with Riley knows his value.

smith&wesson
05-25-2014, 03:46 PM
You guys are dumb. In the playoffs you put the ball in your best guys even more than usual. That reduces Bosh to a spectator a lot of the time.

right, but that also makes bosh almost non existent. So how about moving him for a player who can still be productive with out the ball in his hands ? someone who can play great interior D, rack up 10-15 rebounds, even if he isn't as involved in the offense ? Seems like Miami needs that a hell of a lot more than a player who stretches the floor since they already have an abundance of those type of players.

JC_
05-25-2014, 03:50 PM
This thread is funny.

smith&wesson
05-25-2014, 03:57 PM
I am a HEAT Fan, not a Bosh fan. If moving Bosh improves the team, so be it. But most of the time I'm not hearing names that compliment the team or LeBron and Wade better.

Instead I'm hearing about how we need this back to the basket player to win, or a guy who isn't effective outside 10 feet from the rim. You don't know how many times I've heard that nonsense Omer Asik for Bosh garbage. At least 1000 times already.

Most people don't appreciate the impact Bosh has on the team and opposing defenses. How many games has Bosh bailed the HEAT out with a huge 3 in the clutch? How many times has the opponent pulled players, such as infamously Hibbert last playoffs, simply because of Bosh's ability to spread the floor?

This is what I'm talking about with finding whatever means necessary to improve the team, but not change the dynamic of the team, when we are winning with this current dynamic.

My position is if this dynamic works, and Bosh's full potential is a 24/11 caliber player, there's nobody on the open market who will provide this same dynamic, along with the chemistry already built, so the solution is simple... just use him better. The team doesn't need to trade him away unless there is a remarkable upgrade that still lets us play to the style we have been playing.

Nobody here is going to convince me that changing our bigs to lane cloggers will improve the team, so nobody should waste the effort.

to be clear, I don't think Miami "needs" to do anything to win. they are champions, they have proven they can win with this team.

I don't think that Miami needs a back to the basket type player to win.. specially since they play a lot of small ball and use players to stretch the floor for Wade and LeBron. I totally get that.

I just think that Miami doesn't really need a finesse 4 and they could use a banger inside who provides interior D, elite type rebounding, setting hard screens, and can give me some scoring as well. Right now Bosh basically gives you some scoring and spotty defence, that's about it.

beasted86
05-25-2014, 03:59 PM
right, but that also makes bosh almost non existent. So how about moving him for a player who can still be productive with out the ball in his hands ? someone who can play great interior D, rack up 10-15 rebounds, even if he isn't as involved in the offense ? Seems like Miami needs that a hell of a lot more than a player who stretches the floor since they already have an abundance of those type of players.

So basically you are reverting to the stance of everyone I described above. You know better than Riley and Spo what style of play will win better than what is already winning.

A few extra rebounds a game is what will win us more championships than we've already been winning, rather than giving the best player on the planet room to operate.

Do you know how many of the top 20 rebounder's teams are still playing? How about even made it out of the first round? For unknown reasons, people highly operate rebounding on PSD. It's important but not as much as most of you think.

Jamiecballer
05-25-2014, 04:03 PM
right, but that also makes bosh almost non existent. So how about moving him for a player who can still be productive with out the ball in his hands ? someone who can play great interior D, rack up 10-15 rebounds, even if he isn't as involved in the offense ? Seems like Miami needs that a hell of a lot more than a player who stretches the floor since they already have an abundance of those type of players.

Agreed. But they knew that when they created this little club of theirs. Probably makes it tough to stab one of them in the back now by trading them.

smith&wesson
05-25-2014, 04:10 PM
So basically you are reverting to the stance of everyone I described above. You know better than Riley and Spo what style of play will win better than what is already winning.

A few extra rebounds a game is what will win us more championships than we've already been winning, rather than giving the best player on the planet room to operate.

Do you know how many of the top 20 rebounder's teams are still playing? How about even made it out of the first round? For unknown reasons, people highly operate rebounding on PSD. It's important but not as much as most of you think.

I stated that Miami didn't need to do anything they have already won with this group. I think my point, or suggestion went completely over your head because your taking everything as an attack.. like people are saying "Miami cant win with Bosh" in fact people are suggesting the opposite, they are saying "Miami can win with out Bosh" that's a compliment not a diss.

man you are really defensive. Im not bashing Bosh, the Heat, or Riley or anyone for that matter. All I was suggesting is that Miami can win now, as well as improve their team moving forward. but you took that as some kind of negative statement. I would be thrilled if my team were in that position.

smith&wesson
05-25-2014, 04:13 PM
Agreed. But they knew that when they created this little club of theirs. Probably makes it tough to stab one of them in the back now by trading them.

that's true too. . Also to bosh' credit he has really accepted a much lesser role to make this thing work. not a lot of players of his talent level would do that in the prime of their career. that is def something to consider as well.
the team has chemistry no matter who takes a back seat, it works.

beasted86
05-25-2014, 04:15 PM
I stated that Miami didn't need to do anything they have already won with this group. they don't need to prove that they can win yet again to convince any one. I think my point, or suggestion went completely over your head because your taking everything as an attack.. like people are saying "Miami cant win with Bosh" in fact people are suggesting the opposite, they are saying "Miami can win with out Bosh" that's a compliment not a diss.

man you are really defensive. Im not bashing Bosh, the Heat, or Riley or anyone for that matter. All I was suggesting is that Miami can win now, as well as improve their team moving forward. but you took that as some kind of negative statement. I would be thrilled if my team were in that position.
Actually I'm reiterating exactly what you are saying, but you seem to be the one taking offense.

Trading/not resigning Bosh means they are changing the play style (unless you know of another big with as good or better outside shooting and defense). So basically you are saying there is another style of play the HEAT can play that will win them championships. I don't understand where I misconstrued your stance on this topic. Is that not what you are saying?

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 04:20 PM
Obvious to who? somebody who isn't a fan of the team?
Possibly somebody who doesn't want to continue seeing them win?
He's is unnecessary because you said so?

Sorry, but I watch all the HEAT games and pay close attention to how he impacts the game. I'm glad Spo and the rest of the team along with Riley knows his value.

Jesus Christ, stop ranting like a child and read what everyone is saying. Just because you watch Heat games doesn't mean you are an educated individual in regards to basketball. We never said Bosh wasn't valuable. It is true, Miami goes as far as Bosh takes them AT THIS POINT because we know Wade and James are always going to give you a good game (Wade thus far has been playing consistent). Bosh is the head scratch-er. If he played the way we know he can play, this would be a rap. The playoffs would be Miami all over again. That is not the case because he isn't contributing to what his potential can. Don't tell me Bosh would produce better than K. Love or Anthony Davis.. I can name countless players who would benefit this team as of right now and this is based off the PRESENT Bosh who is NOT producing. We get his potential. We get his value. But to be valuable, you have to play like it. Don't just grab one rebound and make the pass to Ray Allen and think that's worth $20,000,000.. In that case, Ray Allen should be paid $40,000,000. You seem to think we're attacking you when we've been stating what you're trying to state. Bosh is a mid-range shooter who plays his best when he's knocking down those jumpers and fighting for offensive rebounds. He's not someone who can casually stay in the three point line and knock them down 2-3 times consecutively. I get that he can't bang with the Pacers front court but don't tell me Kevin Love or countless of other players can't. Anthony Davis would be a complete beast if he had Bosh's role.

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 04:24 PM
Actually I'm reiterating exactly what you are saying, but you seem to be the one taking offense.

Trading/not resigning Bosh means they are changing the play style (unless you know of another big with as good or better outside shooting and defense). So basically you are saying there is another style of play the HEAT can play that will win them championships. I don't understand where I misconstrued your stance on this topic. Is that not what you are saying?

So you're telling us Miami wouldn't do well if Bosh weren't playing on this team? That's a complete lie. Bosh is a liability at times because he can't bang with big bodies. For $20,000,000, you can get some amazing two piece talent front court that would make LeBron and Wade's job much easier. Spacing the floor, I get it. But do you honestly think LeBron and Wade wouldn't be able to adjust to Bosh being gone? Lmao, in that case, we must give all credit to Bosh and award him MVP. Although, I don't have the same opinion as Smith&Wesson, he's basically stating that Heat can win it with Bosh but there are other options that would make this team more lethal. I don't see the confusion there. Bosh is the center of their system only because Miami spent $20,000,000 and didn't look for an All-Star center. If you took James out, let's see how the Miami Heat system goes.. Good luck getting past Brooklyn, lol.

beasted86
05-25-2014, 04:25 PM
Jesus Christ, stop ranting like a child and read what everyone is saying. Just because you watch Heat games doesn't mean you are an educated individual in regards to basketball. We never said Bosh wasn't valuable. It is true, Miami goes as far as Bosh takes them AT THIS POINT because we know Wade and James are always going to give you a good game (Wade thus far has been playing consistent). Bosh is the head scratch-er. If he played the way we know he can play, this would be a rap. The playoffs would be Miami all over again. That is not the case because he isn't contributing to what his potential can. Don't tell me Bosh would produce better than K. Love or Anthony Davis.. I can name countless players who would benefit this team as of right now and this is based off the PRESENT Bosh who is NOT producing. We get his potential. We get his value. But to be valuable, you have to play like it. Don't just grab one rebound and make the pass to Ray Allen and think that's worth $20,000,000.. In that case, Ray Allen should be paid $40,000,000. You seem to think we're attacking you when we've been stating what you're trying to state. Bosh is a mid-range shooter who plays his best when he's knocking down those jumpers and fighting for offensive rebounds. He's not someone who can casually stay in the three point line and knock them down 2-3 times consecutively. I get that he can't bang with the Pacers front court but don't tell me Kevin Love or countless of other players can't. Anthony Davis would be a complete beast if he had Bosh's role.

So how are the HEAT getting Kevin Love or Anthony Davis again?

It sounds defensive because it is. This thread isn't "should the HEAT trade Bosh for Kevin Love or Anthony Davis", nor is it "is Bosh better than Kevin Love or Anthony Davis" its "can the HEAT win without Chris Bosh". To sum up all of my posts in this thread, my stance is officially: Probably not, but if so, I want to hear some suggestions of who can improve the team without changing their whole identity.

smith&wesson
05-25-2014, 04:28 PM
Actually I'm reiterating exactly what you are saying, but you seem to be the one taking offense.

Trading/not resigning Bosh means they are changing the play style (unless you know of another big with as good or better outside shooting and defense). So basically you are saying there is another style of play the HEAT can play that will win them championships. I don't understand where I misconstrued your stance on this topic. Is that not what you are saying?

lol no, read what I wrote again bro. "All I was suggesting is that Miami can win now, as well as improve their team moving forward."

The fact is that bosh, so far has not been a big part of the battles that Miami is fighting through to get to the ship. he is more of a role player who being carried there.

Why not get a player that fits the current system better. the team style of play doesn't have to change simply because you get a player that compliments wade and LeBron more. ie, a player who can provide elite interior d, elite rebounding, hard screens, things a big man does to help a team when he isn't a vocal part of the offense ..

why does Miami need a spot up shooter when they have Ray Ray, Cole, Chalmers, Beasley, Lewis, Battier, etc. they don't... But they could use a big man who can do all of the above things mentioned. No one saying they need to do this. Just saying that its an option.. its a luxury to have that option by the way. Not many contending teams have tradable assets that they can part with and still remain contenders. If moving bosh further helps Wade and Lebron, I don't see why its not an option worth exploring.

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 04:31 PM
So how are the HEAT getting Kevin Love or Anthony Davis again?

It sounds defensive because it is. This thread isn't "should the HEAT trade Bosh for Kevin Love or Anthony Davis", nor is it "is Bosh better than Kevin Love or Anthony Davis" its "can the HEAT win without Chris Bosh". To sum up all of my posts in this thread, my stance is officially: Probably not, but if so, I want to hear some suggestions of who can improve the team without changing their whole identity.

You just said to name players who could be a better option and I did; Anthony Davis and Love are two players out of many who could potentially make this team far better than they are at this point. Note, I said at this point because presently, Bosh is not playing the way he's supposed to be playing. You can't even argue this fact because he's averaging 9 points and 5 rebounds on 36% shooting. If this carries on, there is no way Miami beat the Spurs. I don't expect it to carry on since Bosh is notorious for playing below average against the Pacers; so in that sense, I think he's going to pick it up soon. As to who can pick it up without changing their identity, why shouldn't they change their identity? Do you realize Andersen, Cole, Haslem, and Hamilton are the only 4 players who are guaranteed? All those shooters are free agents. They have a lot of work to do this off-season and seeking other "identities" will be an option.

beasted86
05-25-2014, 04:35 PM
So you're telling us Miami wouldn't do well if Bosh weren't playing on this team?

Is that what this topic is? If so, I've been completely off topic throughout this whole thing. I was under the impression "win" meant win the championship, not just "win" as in win some games and "do well".

I think he has been a major piece. He isn't as good as LeBron if thats what you are asking me. But if you think that a player that has the impact to make another team's head coach take their best defender off the floor in the clutch is less valueable than other guys who can simply grab a few extra rebounds, then that's where we clearly disagree.

I think having a PF who has versatility to play Center also and defend the pick and roll in an elite way as well as cross match switch to defending a wing at times is what is unique to the identity and dynamic of this team. Are there other players better? Yes, of course. But most of the time I'm hearing about trading down for inferior players and changing the dynamic to a traditional lineup that limits LeBron and Wade's floor spacing and changing to a traditional "straight up" defense.

smith&wesson
05-25-2014, 04:36 PM
You just said to name players who could be a better option and I did; Anthony Davis and Love are two players out of many who could potentially make this team far better than they are at this point. Note, I said at this point because presently, Bosh is not playing the way he's supposed to be playing. You can't even argue this fact because he's averaging 9 points and 5 rebounds on 36% shooting. If this carries on, there is no way Miami beat the Spurs. I don't expect it to carry on since Bosh is notorious for playing below average against the Pacers; so in that sense, I think he's going to pick it up soon. As to who can pick it up without changing their identity, why shouldn't they change their identity? Do you realize Andersen, Cole, Haslem, and Hamilton are the only 4 players who are guaranteed? All those shooters are free agents. They have a lot of work to do this off-season and seeking other "identities" will be an option.

wait, so you mean that isn't worth 19 + million ?? :speechless:

smith&wesson
05-25-2014, 04:42 PM
Is that what this topic is? If so, I've been completely off topic throughout this whole thing. I was under the impression "win" meant win the championship, not just "win" as in win some games and "do well".

I think he has been a major piece. He isn't as good as LeBron if thats what you are asking me. But if you think that a player that has the impact to make another team's head coach take their best defender off the floor in the clutch is less valueable than other guys who can simply grab a few extra rebounds, then that's where we clearly disagree.

I think having a PF who has versatility to play Center also and defend the pick and roll in an elite way as well as cross match switch to defending a wing at times is what is unique to the identity and dynamic of this team. Are there other players better? Yes, of course. But most of the time I'm hearing about trading down for inferior players and changing the dynamic to a traditional lineup that limits LeBron and Wade's floor spacing and changing to a traditional "straight up" defense.

were not talking an extra couple of rebounds. he is your allstar big man, you would think he could easily average 10 rebounds a game since you know he did it though out his career until he got to Miami. Maybe just maybe he isn't being used right.

5-6 more rebounds per game, an extra couple of blocked shots, some harder set screens, better help D, yes that would be more valuable than the couple of spot up 3's that he hits every so often. surely you can understand the difference between that and " a couple of extra rebouds"

beasted86
05-25-2014, 04:42 PM
As to who can pick it up without changing their identity, why shouldn't they change their identity?

I don't get it. You guys are saying exactly what I said in post #41, but when I spell it out for you, you take offense.

I'm simply saying I disagree. To keep winning with the play style that has been winning until somebody proves you can't win that way. Every time a team makes major moves to key players to match up with an opponent, it seems to blow up in their face 99% of the time.

I think HEAT should continue to impose their will with quickness on the perimeter and bigs that can draw shot blockers out 22 feet from the rim. Whatever players they lose in free agency replace them with younger versions of the same type of player. Or simply ADD to the team, which for unknown reason seems to go over a lot of people's head. Does the HEAT have to replace Bosh, they can't just add another shot blocker and rebounder next to him like we did with Andersen? Apparently not on PSD.

smith&wesson
05-25-2014, 04:44 PM
I don't get it. You guys are saying exactly what I said in post #41, but when I spell it out for you, you take offense.

I'm simply saying I disagree. To keep winning with the play style that has been winning until somebody proves you can't win that way. Every time a team makes major moves to key players to match up with an opponent, it seems to blow up in their face 99% of the time.

I think HEAT should continue to impose their will with quickness on the perimeter and bigs that can draw shot blockers out 22 feet from the rim. Whatever players they lose in free agency replace them with younger versions of the same type of player. Or simply ADD to the team, which for unknown reason seems to go over a lot of people's head. Does the HEAT have to replace Bosh, they can't just add another shot blocker and rebounder next to him like we did with Andersen? Apparently not on PSD.

that's a valid point.. and fair enough.

beasted86
05-25-2014, 04:48 PM
were not talking an extra couple of rebounds. he is your allstar big man, you would think he could easily average 10 rebounds a game since you know he did it though out his career until he got to Miami. Maybe just maybe he isn't being used right.

5-6 more rebounds per game, an extra couple of blocked shots, some harder set screens, better help D, yes that would be more valuable than the couple of spot up 3's that he hits every so often. surely you can understand the difference between that and " a couple of extra rebouds"
So you want to compare Bosh's average to the average of the league leaders? Makes sense.

I think I've made it clear they need to use him better already, by the way. But at the same time, I seem to be in the minority with a few other HEAT fans that seem to agree with the idea to ride the wave. Maybe this is the way the team needs to use Bosh for them to win. I don't have some internal desire that thinks 20 PPG, 10 RPG magically = better team and more or easier championships. Last time I checked Bosh's best year with the HEAT, they lost. Maybe this is the role and way of play that allows them to win, but that idea is so foreign to everyone else.

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 04:50 PM
Is that what this topic is? If so, I've been completely off topic throughout this whole thing. I was under the impression "win" meant win the championship, not just "win" as in win some games and "do well".

I think he has been a major piece. He isn't as good as LeBron if thats what you are asking me. But if you think that a player that has the impact to make another team's head coach take their best defender off the floor in the clutch is less valueable than other guys who can simply grab a few extra rebounds, then that's where we clearly disagree.

I think having a PF who has versatility to play Center also and defend the pick and roll in an elite way as well as cross match switch to defending a wing at times is what is unique to the identity and dynamic of this team. Are there other players better? Yes, of course. But most of the time I'm hearing about trading down for inferior players and changing the dynamic to a traditional lineup that limits LeBron and Wade's floor spacing and changing to a traditional "straight up" defense.

You don't get it. You implied that Bosh is the center of their system - which is true. However, great players adapt and that's where Bosh isn't as big of a deal as you believe so. Obviously, Bosh is a huge piece of the puzzles... He takes up practically 1/4th of Miami's salary. That money being spent on Bosh could be spent more sparingly towards getting a center/PF who can rebound and defend while also spacing the floor. Don't tell me Bosh is the only PF/C capable of spacing the floor. +, are we watching the same games? Bosh's versatility to play center/PF? What versatility.. That would mean he is rebounding, defending, and being able to post up. In case you haven't realized, Bosh isn't either one of those things. His defense can be good but he's just not doing so. When he was in Toronto, he wasn't a great defender either but he hustled for rebounds and battled it out. I don't see that here in Miami. You even admitted there are better players... Don't change your view on it. Love will space the floor and grab you 13+ boards each night. Heck, if he limited his 3PA, he'll grab you upwards of 15 RPG. Anthony Davis isn't as big of a spacer but he'll rebound, provide post moves (thus allowing defenders to not rotate to LeBron and Wade), and he can defend against the best of them. Hell, if we are strictly talking about spacing the floor, who better than Ryan Anderson; who by the way is paid $8,500,000 - less than half of what Bosh is getting paid to do. Granted, he's not as good at defense but that's where the other $8,000,000 can go to Omer Asik. Great defender, elite rebounder, and will battle it out against bigs. Wait, that's $4,000,000 in excess. That $4,000,000 can make a huge difference when you're trying to sign LeBron and Wade with superb talent.

Let me see:

C: Omer Asik
PF: Ryan Anderson
SF: LeBron James
SG: Dwyane Wade
PG: Norris Cole

You can figure out the rest but this is a far better starting team than what Miami has now.

koreancabbage
05-25-2014, 04:56 PM
do you think they could trade Bosh for Kenneth Faired and Galinari??

Thats who I would target if I was Miami.

edit: or go after Ryan Anderson from NO

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 04:59 PM
So you want to compare Bosh's average to the average of the league leaders? Makes sense.

I think I've made it clear they need to use him better already, by the way. But at the same time, I seem to be in the minority with a few other HEAT fans that seem to agree with the idea to ride the wave. Maybe this is the way the team needs to use Bosh for them to win. I don't have some internal desire that thinks 20 PPG, 10 RPG magically = better team and more or easier championships. Last time I checked Bosh's best year with the HEAT, they lost. Maybe this is the role and way of play that allows them to win, but that idea is so foreign to everyone else.

It's one thing to not average 20/10. Not a lot of guys can do that. But not a lot of guys get paid $20,000,000. Consider the production:price ratio. Do you think he's worth $20,000,000? You should know, salary makes a team. If you don't have the funds, you don't have the team. How long can Miami continue winning if they are paying $20,000,000 to Bosh while other teams are coming up? Wade is not going to be better than he is; that's a given. James can be better but he's in his prime and it's hard to see him besting out the last couple of years. He's worth more than $20,000,000 so he makes up for a lot. You mentioned Chris Andersen but that's not every day that you can sign someone for dirt cheap who provides hustle, rebounding, put-backs, and defense for less than $1,000,000. That jut doesn't happen. A lot of things have to go wrong for something like that to happen and one of them was Chris Andersen having a bad public image and being unemployed for quite some time. But, that's just not enough for the future. Miami has to reconsider their options and they have plenty of options to do so during the off-season. Also, you're always talking about winning until someone can beat them but let's look at the options:

1) Miami hasn't won the championship.
2) Just because they haven't lost, doesn't mean they can't improve.

I get that you're a Heat fan and you're willing to defend every player to the bone but as a basketball fan who has no conflict with a team, I just think they can do so much better.

diu9leilomo
05-25-2014, 04:59 PM
What if Bosh opts out, sign Melo and move Lebron to the 4 and Birdman at 5? This team have much more potential to win multiple titles than the current one...

beasted86
05-25-2014, 05:03 PM
C: Omer Asik
PF: Ryan Anderson
SF: LeBron James
SG: Dwyane Wade
PG: Norris Cole

You can figure out the rest but this is a far better starting team than what Miami has now.

Well that's your opinion, and I simply disagree greatly.

Ryan Anderson stinks on defense, and Asik is a guy who can't even stay on the floor in the 4th because of putrid free throw shooting. He's a liability. This team also changes to a straight up defense because they can't cross match. I watched a game earlier this season where Bosh was draped the hell all over Joe Johnson, a 6'7" wing. Ryan Anderson can't do that. Asik can't do that. Anderson is also only a PF, and would do a far worse job at Center than Bosh, and we've already seen how crappy Asik looks at PF. Bosh offers versatility that is matched by very few guys. Love stinks on both pick and roll defense and rim protection. While Im not going to say that trading for him wouldn't improve us in some ways, I'm just not certain he can meet the defensive demands. Bosh is way better defensively. Davis is young and inexperienced, and not a great shooter. While I think he could do a better job down the line than Bosh, I think if today you traded one for the other, the HEAT is downgrading.

Obviously this lies strictly in a difference of opinion. These players clearly help in some ways and detract in other ways. I'm merely saying I don't want the HEAT to change their style until somebody proves they can't win that way. And aside from me just saying it, one of my first replies in this thread was on the subject of history. I don't remember many if any instances teams changed their 2nd or 3rd best players while changing their play style and wen on to repeat.

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 05:07 PM
What if Bosh opts out, sign Melo and move Lebron to the 4 and Birdman at 5? This team have much more potential to win multiple titles than the current one...

My point exactly. Although, here are the problems with LeBron being at the 4:

1) LeBron isn't a banger. He can bang but he does "whine" frequently and for health's sake, why put your star player in such a predicament? He's going to lose a year or two banging it out like that. Matchup nightmare but not in his best interest to do so. Melo at the 4 is a better option. He can rebound when needed and just like LeBron, a huge matchup problem.

But, Bosh is not opting out. He makes too much and the scenario he is at right now makes it almost impossible to reject. I do think if Bosh opts out, Melo is their first option and Heat would be Melo's first option as well. James/Wade have a better relationship with Melo than Bosh since Bosh doesn't seem to match their personalities.

Just the thought of having Melo, James, and Wade would be a nightmare for any team.

diu9leilomo
05-25-2014, 05:08 PM
http://basketball.******.com/wiretap/233565/Chris-Bosh-Understands-Post-Play-Isnt-Strength-For-Him-Anymore

he say he don't want to bang anymore...interesting

Jamiecballer
05-25-2014, 05:12 PM
My point exactly. Although, here are the problems with LeBron being at the 4:

Just the thought of having Melo, James, and Wade would be a nightmare for any team.
The worst nightmare probably belonging to the coach who has to handle that train wreck. If I was Lebron and they added Melo I'd probably ask to be dealt.

Minimal
05-25-2014, 05:15 PM
Probably not, because:
1. He spreads the floor like no other, making all bigs go after him leaving the paint clear for lebron and wade to create
2. He is a really great player, 1 series mean almost nothing
3. He is 2nd best player on the team defending the paint, some people underrate Bosh's defence, he is a really great defender. He is first on the team in +/- per 36 min with +6.4, LeBron is second with +5.1, thats the impact Bosh does, mostly because of his defensive prowess

beasted86
05-25-2014, 05:16 PM
1) Miami hasn't won the championship.
2) Just because they haven't lost, doesn't mean they can't improve.

I get that you're a Heat fan and you're willing to defend every player to the bone but as a basketball fan who has no conflict with a team, I just think they can do so much better.

Well as I've said its difference of opinion. But the results so far outweigh your opinion. You value rebounding and shot blocking. You think that's what it takes to win championships, and adding that to the team will improve them.

I simply disagree greatly. I think versatility and quickness on the perimeter defensively, ability to create deflections, close out to shooters, hedge and recover on the pick and roll, these types of dynamic skills this team has already shown in the past 4 years is what makes them so great and allows them to win.

I think the HEAT need the dynamic Bosh adds to win. They need to negotiate with all 3 of their players to avoid the repeater tax, but simply need to add to the core, even if they fall short this season. You don't revamp the identity of the team when this is what allows your best player LeBron to be so efficient and effective. It affords him the floor spacing in both the post and off the dribble, also his teammates allowing him to switch everything on defense means he doesn't have to get punished fighting over screens every time on the defensive end.

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 05:16 PM
The worst nightmare probably belonging to the coach who has to handle that train wreck. If I was Lebron and they added Melo I'd probably ask to be dealt.

Because? James is younger but he acts like a big brother to Melo. When Melo was going through free agency, he went to LeBron for advice. Melo, under the right circumstances, is dangerous. His entire career, he was the first option. Imagine if he were to be the 2nd/3rd option. No double-team? Green light every game.

IKnowHoops
05-25-2014, 05:20 PM
I think it was game 7 of the championship game against the spurs which was the biggest game of the year, Bosh scored a big fat ZERO points, so yes the heat can win without Bosh. They already did. Lets not forget when they beat Indian two years ago without him as well. So been there done that. As long as he gets his customary 7 points at a meaningful time, the heat will be fine. LOL, so sad.

NBA_Starter
05-25-2014, 05:21 PM
They should just start Birdman!

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 05:23 PM
Well as I've said its difference of opinion. But the results so far outweigh your opinion. You value rebounding and shot blocking. You think that's what it takes to win championships, and adding that to the team will improve them.

I simply disagree greatly. I think versatility and quickness on the perimeter defensively, ability to create deflections, close out to shooters, hedge and recover on the pick and roll, these types of dynamic skills this team has already shown in the past 4 years is what makes them so great and allows them to win.

I think the HEAT need the dynamic Bosh adds to win. They need to negotiate with all 3 of their players to avoid the repeater tax, but simply need to add to the core, even if they fall short this season. You don't revamp the identity of the team when this is what allows your best player LeBron to be so efficient and effective. It affords him the floor spacing in both the post and off the dribble, also his teammates allowing him to switch everything on defense means he doesn't have to get punished fighting over screens every time on the defensive end.

What? You really think Miami winning the past two rings were because of Bosh? Uhm, the result is because LeBron is a damn beast and he can carry an above average team to a championship. It's one thing to say it's an opinion but don't get your priorities mistaken. Bosh is not the reason why Miami won. He played a role but he wasn't the star for that team. The fact that you are even questioning whether or not Asik/Anderson vs Bosh, Davis vs Bosh, or Love vs Bosh is simply laughable. Again, your opinion but very laughable. You said Asik is a terrible FT shooter but you ignore that he can rebound and is a much better defender than Bosh. You said Ryan Anderson's defense isn't good - which I agreed, but ignored the fact that Miami gets handled in the paint against big players and that's why Asik is there. Ryan Anderson is just there to space the floor. He's a much better floor spacer than Bosh and at less than half the price. You need to think of these things, not just say "Bosh is better because Miami won two rings." Them winning two rings is more about LeBron than Bosh.

beasted86
05-25-2014, 05:23 PM
http://basketball.******.com/wiretap/233565/Chris-Bosh-Understands-Post-Play-Isnt-Strength-For-Him-Anymore

he say he don't want to bang anymore...interesting

He's saying that since his demands are so high defensively on the pick and roll, he doesn't have the energy offensively to play in the post, which makes sense.

There's no team in the NBA that defends the pick and roll the way Miami does. It often times has the side effect of leaving the Center or Power Forward on the backs of their opponent and out of position for the rebound, but nobody hedges and traps like we do, no other team creates the deflections that we do.

P&GRealist
05-25-2014, 05:24 PM
Bosh doesn't have to score a single point, but just him being on the floor and being a threat where defenses have to scramble and account for an exceptional midrange jump shooter is why he's so important. Also, LeBron thrives when he is mentally happy, no one is judging me and is playing with his best buddies. Playing with Wade and Bosh (his brothers) does a lot of LeBron's morale. This is how Bosh is so valuable to this whole big 3 concept

IKnowHoops
05-25-2014, 05:26 PM
Miami wouldn't trade a top 25 player for 2 scrubs. Yes Shumpert and Chandler are scrubs.

This though.

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 05:27 PM
I think it was game 7 of the championship game against the spurs which was the biggest game of the year, Bosh scored a big fat ZERO points, so yes the heat can win without Bosh. They already did. Lets not forget when they beat Indian two years ago without him as well. So been there done that. As long as he gets his customary 7 points at a meaningful time, the heat will be fine. LOL, so sad.

Exactly. He scored 0 points but people will talk about his one lone rebound and assist that shouldn't have been required if he did his job and played accordingly. I always say, James doesn't shoot a lot of clutch shots because he handles the game before fourth quarter ever arrives while Kobe will often drag his team to 4th quarter time through inefficient shooting. Not a knock on Kobe, he's one of the greatest players. That's exactly what Bosh has to do. He needs to play well and consistent so they don't have to resort to that one rebound or assist. Different games have different circumstances but you can't ignore bad production for year(s).

IKnowHoops
05-25-2014, 05:28 PM
Spo should adjust the lineup tho, bosh should go back to 4 and put birdman starting 5. The term spacing is being over used, Lebron can pretty much get to the rim without "spacing"

This too.

Although I think Bird is on the second unit so that the second unit has enough talent to compete.

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 05:29 PM
Bosh doesn't have to score a single point, but just him being on the floor and being a threat where defenses have to scramble and account for an exceptional midrange jump shooter is why he's so important. Also, LeBron thrives when he is mentally happy, no one is judging me and is playing with his best buddies. Playing with Wade and Bosh (his brothers) does a lot of LeBron's morale. This is how Bosh is so valuable to this whole big 3 concept

According to numerous reports, LeBron/Wade aren't as cool with Bosh as many think. There was an interview out there and the interviewer asked Bosh where LeBron and Wade are and Bosh said "I don't know." Doesn't seem like they have the "brother" connection. We shouldn't take the "brother" term in basketball too figuratively. Didn't Paul George say he and Hibbert had a great relationship? Doubt it.

IKnowHoops
05-25-2014, 05:31 PM
Bosh is still among the best powerforwards in the league. its not his fault spolstra has no clue on how to use him.

He isn't a spot up shooter, but that's exactly how spo uses him... he can do much, much more than spotting up and shooting the open jumper.. but that's how he is being utilized. as if allen, beasly, lewis, cole, chalmers cant fill that role easily, they needed one of the big three to also fill that role

:facepalm: I don't know how spo is still the coach of that team.

This also

P&GRealist
05-25-2014, 05:31 PM
According to numerous reports, LeBron/Wade aren't as cool with Bosh as many think. There was an interview out there and the interviewer asked Bosh where LeBron and Wade are and Bosh said "I don't know." Doesn't seem like they have the "brother" connection. We shouldn't take the "brother" term in basketball too figuratively. Didn't Paul George say he and Hibbert had a great relationship? Doubt it.

Lol that doesn't really say much dude. I think you're reading to much into it.


LeBron knows he doesn't win either of these 2 titles without Bosh. Bosh got that huge offensive rebound to kick it out to Ray Allen for that 3 in game 6 against the Spurs. Probably the biggest offensive rebound in the history of Heat franchise if you really think about it.

diu9leilomo
05-25-2014, 05:31 PM
Bosh doesn't have to score a single point, but just him being on the floor and being a threat where defenses have to scramble and account for an exceptional midrange jump shooter is why he's so important. Also, LeBron thrives when he is mentally happy, no one is judging me and is playing with his best buddies. Playing with Wade and Bosh (his brothers) does a lot of LeBron's morale. This is how Bosh is so valuable to this whole big 3 concept

You serious bro? Yes they are buddies, but Lebron have many friends in the league, and Bosh is not even that close with lebron, Bosh's closest friend in the league is dwight. It's laughable when you can only win playing along with friends...they are professionals and Lebron can do better than that..

beasted86
05-25-2014, 05:32 PM
What? You really think Miami winning the past two rings were because of Bosh? Uhm, the result is because LeBron is a damn beast and he can carry an above average team to a championship. It's one thing to say it's an opinion but don't get your priorities mistaken. Bosh is not the reason why Miami won. He played a role but he wasn't the star for that team. The fact that you are even questioning whether or not Asik/Anderson vs Bosh, Davis vs Bosh, or Love vs Bosh is simply laughable. Again, your opinion but very laughable. You said Asik is a terrible FT shooter but you ignore that he can rebound and is a much better defender than Bosh. You said Ryan Anderson's defense isn't good - which I agreed, but ignored the fact that Miami gets handled in the paint against big players and that's why Asik is there. Ryan Anderson is just there to space the floor. He's a much better floor spacer than Bosh and at less than half the price. You need to think of these things, not just say "Bosh is better because Miami won two rings." Them winning two rings is more about LeBron than Bosh.

Im pretty sure you along with everybody else were saying the HEAT "needed" a Center and post presence to win even before they won. Its funny hearing from fans of losing teams what a team winning championships "needs".

Anyway this discussion is getting boring since you are starting to put words in my mouth. Asik is good defensively in some ways and not other ways is my point. Asik sucks at hedging pick and rolls. I watched a number of Rockets games this season, and was amused how many screens he went under just to watch Chris Paul or Stephen Curry, or some other PG torch his team with a 3. Just because a guy can rebound, and play post defense better doesn't mean that they will specifically help the HEAT. Asik isn't even a better shot blocker which makes it even worse. The HEAT has made a living blitzing the pick and roll and recovering... the results speak for themselves. At the end of the day, you think you know better than Riley and Spo what the team needs, and what play style will help LeBron to strive, but you unfortunately do not.

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 05:35 PM
The thing with Bird is he's a burst player. He'll give you a good 20-25 minutes but anything after that and you're asking too much. Even Spoelstra admitted that Bird will often give him the signal when he's had enough playing time. IMO, Miami needs to get Bosh to bargain down along with Wade. Neither of those two are max players and since they don't get taxed, it's not as if they are giving up a lot if they signed as the 1st option for another team. If it all comes down to winning, they would offer Bosh and Wade $13-15 a year, James can stay the same, Anderson, Cole, and Haslem are locked in at $7 million total for the year. Depending on how far they want to go, Miami has more than enough room to play with. Good future regardless of how things go.

amos1er
05-25-2014, 05:36 PM
Miami could win the east without Chris Bosh.

Miami could not win a title without Chris Bosh. They could replace him with other players that could get the job done though. Bosh is a top 5 PF in this league and any of the other top five would be sufficient to give Miami the same if not greater title winning chances.

P&GRealist
05-25-2014, 05:38 PM
You serious bro? Yes they are buddies, but Lebron have many friends in the league, and Bosh is not even that close with lebron, Bosh's closest friend in the league is dwight. It's laughable when you can only win playing along with friends...they are professionals and Lebron can do better than that..

No, he chose those teammates and that organization 4 yrs ago. I don't think he could do better than that at the time, and probably not at the current moment either. This is the PERFECT situation for LeBron and I do not think he can thrive playing with any one else without Bosh/Wade/Spo/Riles/Heatmedia having his back. He won't win championships without a Bosh and Wade. Those guys compliment him perfectly on and off the court, game style and personality wise.

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 05:46 PM
Lol that doesn't really say much dude. I think you're reading to much into it.


LeBron knows he doesn't win either of these 2 titles without Bosh. Bosh got that huge offensive rebound to kick it out to Ray Allen for that 3 in game 6 against the Spurs. Probably the biggest offensive rebound in the history of Heat franchise if you really think about it.

I beg to differ. Bosh got that rebound and assist but Tim Duncan wasn't there and Bosh didn't play exactly great. You can't give them a point for making one play and disregard the rest of the game.


Im pretty sure you along with everybody else were saying the HEAT "needed" a Center and post presence to win even before they won. Its funny hearing from fans of losing teams what a team winning championships "needs".

Anyway this discussion is getting boring since you are starting to put words in my mouth. Asik is good defensively in some ways and not other ways is my point. Asik sucks at hedging pick and rolls. I watched a number of Rockets games this season, and was amused how many screens he went under just to watch Chris Paul or Stephen Curry, or some other PG torch his team with a 3. Just because a guy can rebound, and play post defense better doesn't mean that they will specifically help the HEAT. Asik isn't even a better shot blocker which makes it even worse. The HEAT has made a living blitzing the pick and roll and recovering... the results speak for themselves. At the end of the day, you think you know better than Riley and Spo what the team needs, and what play style will help LeBron to strive, but you unfortunately do not.

Miami didn't win because of Bosh.. No one said Miami wouldn't win without a center. I think the cons were that they had no inside presence and that is perfectly true. Miami wins because LeBron is a damn beast. I don't care how you put it but LeBron is the reason why they have gotten so far these past years. It's not because Bosh is spacing the floor and providing "good" pick-and-roll defense. None of that stuff matters if you don't have LeBron. If what you're implying is that LeBron is doing so well because of what Bosh offers, sure, but you're downplaying LeBron. He's one of the greatest to play the game and a lock for top 5. He will adjust with or without Bosh. You don't seem to understand basketball on a advanced view of the game. I never said I knew more than Riley/Spo, I'm just saying Miami can use the $20,000,000 for much better opportunities. You can't read and therefore I think this discussion ends. Asik gets paid $8,000,000. You're comparing an $8,000,000 player to a $20,000,000 player. Bosh is better than Asik but he is not better than Asik+Anderson. At the end of the day, there are better options than Bosh and that's what you fail to understand. Let me know when Bosh picks up the slump and outplays a front court worth mentioning. Against Al, he would've been humiliated if Al wasn't injured. Against Brooklyn, he's lucky Robin Lopez was out. Against Pacers, you see what happens. Next, against TD/Splitter, let's see what comes of it.

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 05:47 PM
Lol that doesn't really say much dude. I think you're reading to much into it.


LeBron knows he doesn't win either of these 2 titles without Bosh. Bosh got that huge offensive rebound to kick it out to Ray Allen for that 3 in game 6 against the Spurs. Probably the biggest offensive rebound in the history of Heat franchise if you really think about it.


Miami could win the east without Chris Bosh.

Miami could not win a title without Chris Bosh. They could replace him with other players that could get the job done though. Bosh is a top 5 PF in this league and any of the other top five would be sufficient to give Miami the same if not greater title winning chances.

Bosh is better than Blake, Love, Davis, Nowitzki, Duncan, Aldridge, and Jefferson? Who knew...

P&GRealist
05-25-2014, 05:50 PM
Bosh is better than Blake, Love, Davis, Nowitzki, Duncan, Aldridge, and Jefferson? Who knew...

But do those guys compliment LeBron AND Wade, 2 ball dominant elite ball handling perimeter guys (who also need to drive into the paint to thrive and take away touches from the paint for those guys) better than Bosh?

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 05:53 PM
Lol that doesn't really say much dude. I think you're reading to much into it.


LeBron knows he doesn't win either of these 2 titles without Bosh. Bosh got that huge offensive rebound to kick it out to Ray Allen for that 3 in game 6 against the Spurs. Probably the biggest offensive rebound in the history of Heat franchise if you really think about it.


But do those guys compliment LeBron AND Wade, 2 ball dominant elite ball handling perimeter guys (who also need to drive into the paint to thrive and take away touches from the paint for those guys) better than Bosh?

Amo1ser said Bosh was a top 5 PF and so whether or not they fit Miami's system doesn't fall into place. You don't think Nowitzki is a better fit for Miami than Bosh? Love without a doubt is a better fit. Davis IMO is a better fit just because he handles so much of Miami's problems. Blake wouldn't fit but Aldridge/Jefferson, depending on how you look at it.

IKnowHoops
05-25-2014, 05:54 PM
do you think they could trade Bosh for Kenneth Faired and Galinari??

Thats who I would target if I was Miami.

edit: or go after Ryan Anderson from NO

Im not with trading Bosh for two lesser players. Bosh will produce on another team. I would trade Bosh in a heartbeat for Anthony Davis and you can take spacing, fit, and all that other BS. Anthony Davis on this team instead of Bosh would make this team waaaaaaaaaaaay better.

Jamiecballer
05-25-2014, 05:59 PM
Because? James is younger but he acts like a big brother to Melo. When Melo was going through free agency, he went to LeBron for advice. Melo, under the right circumstances, is dangerous. His entire career, he was the first option. Imagine if he were to be the 2nd/3rd option. No double-team? Green light every game.

Because he's a cancerous black hole of a basketball player that would be absolutely guaranteed to mess up the chemistry of that team IMO.

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 06:00 PM
Assuming Miami keeps Bosh, they should look at Hawes, Jermaine, or Frye. They could provide 20+ minutes and with Anderson as the backup, you can finally move Bosh at the PF.

amos1er
05-25-2014, 06:05 PM
Bosh is better than Blake, Love, Davis, Nowitzki, Duncan, Aldridge, and Jefferson? Who knew...

Jefferson and Davis essentially play a PF/C roll. I would consider them centers. Dirk and Duncan are better, but both are old now and can't give teams consistent 35 plus minute nights. I would say that Bosh is on par with Blake or Aldridge. Bosh would be a 20/10 player on any other team easily and he is a very good stretch 4. He has had to adjust his game tremendously to play with Lebron. Make no mistake that this dude is a top five PF and would be the center piece of nearly any other team in this league at the PF position. Remember, this guy was a top 15 player with a lot of upside in the NBA back when Lebron teamed up with him in 2011.

IKnowHoops
05-25-2014, 06:21 PM
Bosh is a great player. The thing is he is making 20 million in the role of a 5 million dollar player. If all you need him to do is space the floor, go get a 5 million dollar player who can space the floor, then get a great PG like Steph Curry/John Wall/Westbrook with the rest of the money.

I'm not falling for this bullcrap of having to keep our current style of play to win rings because its worked. I think this team would be better with Russell Westbrook at PG and letting Ray Allen come in at the three and play Bron at the 4. Bron wouldn't have to bang cause they don't ask Bosh to bang. Here are a list of guys I would trade straight up for Bosh.

Westbrook
Curry
Wall
Melo
Love
Davis
Blake
George
Dwight
Harden
Kyrie
Tony Parker
Cousins
Lillard
Deandre Jordan + Jamal crawford
Paul (obviously)
Durant (obviously)

Many of these guys would change the dynamic from Bosh obviously, but the heat can go get someone to camp out at the three point line much better than bosh for cheap, while gaining a lot more other things with these guys.

FlashBolt
05-25-2014, 06:24 PM
Bosh is a great player. The thing is he is making 20 million in the role of a 5 million dollar player. If all you need him to do is space the floor, go get a 5 million dollar player who can space the floor, then get a great PG like Steph Curry/John Wall/Westbrook with the rest of the money.

I'm not falling for this bullcrap of having to keep our current style of play to win rings because its worked. I think this team would be better with Russell Westbrook at PG and letting Ray Allen come in at the three and play Bron at the 4. Bron wouldn't have to bang cause they don't ask Bosh to bang. Here are a list of guys I would trade straight up for Bosh.

Westbrook
Curry
Wall
Melo
Love
Davis
Blake
George
Dwight
Harden
Kyrie
Tony Parker
Cousins
Lillard
Deandre Jordan + Jamal crawford
Paul (obviously)
Durant (obviously)

You know what the funny part is? Those respective teams wouldn't trade their respective player for Bosh. I don't agree with Westbrook, Curry, Wall, George, Harden, Kyrie, Parker, or Lillard for Bosh. They are dominant ball handlers and when you have Bron/Wade, you're essentially going to waste production. It needs to even out. Of course, I excluded Paul/Durant because they are just too good to not take. But yeah, I get what you're saying. Everyone always says Bosh spaces out the floor and is the central piece to this team but if spacing is truly what they wanted, go grab Anderson. Bosh doesn't provide elite defense or rebounding so to solve that, who better than Love? He's not a defensive player but who's a better rebounder/spacing the floor player than Love? I just don't get it.

IKnowHoops
05-25-2014, 06:25 PM
Jefferson and Davis essentially play a PF/C roll. I would consider them centers. Dirk and Duncan are better, but both are old now and can't give teams consistent 35 plus minute nights. I would say that Bosh is on par with Blake or Aldridge. Bosh would be a 20/10 player on any other team easily and he is a very good stretch 4. He has had to adjust his game tremendously to play with Lebron. Make no mistake that this dude is a top five PF and would be the center piece of nearly any other team in this league at the PF position. Remember, this guy was a top 15 player with a lot of upside in the NBA back when Lebron teamed up with him in 2011.

I don't think Aldride would help the heat any more than Bosh this year. All the others would make the Heat better than what Bosh can. Sure they would have to change a few things, but they would reap the benefits of these changes making them a better team.

Jamiecballer
05-25-2014, 07:12 PM
You know what the funny part is? Those respective teams wouldn't trade their respective player for Bosh. I don't agree with Westbrook, Curry, Wall, George, Harden, Kyrie, Parker, or Lillard for Bosh. They are dominant ball handlers and when you have Bron/Wade, you're essentially going to waste production. It needs to even out. Of course, I excluded Paul/Durant because they are just too good to not take. But yeah, I get what you're saying. Everyone always says Bosh spaces out the floor and is the central piece to this team but if spacing is truly what they wanted, go grab Anderson. Bosh doesn't provide elite defense or rebounding so to solve that, who better than Love? He's not a defensive player but who's a better rebounder/spacing the floor player than Love? I just don't get it.
A Bosh for Westbrook deal is interesting. Popular opinion might be that Oklahoma says no thanks but i think that would be a fantastic deal for them. And the end of the Dynasty in Miami. Finally a suitable second banana for Durant.

amos1er
05-25-2014, 07:32 PM
A Bosh for Westbrook deal is interesting. Popular opinion might be that Oklahoma says no thanks but i think that would be a fantastic deal for them. And the end of the Dynasty in Miami. Finally a suitable second banana for Durant.

I feel that a wing player would be a better wingman for Durant. No pun intended. Westbrook should be traded for a less ball dominant passing wing who can play good D. A tall order I know, but it is within the realm of possibility to acquire such a player.

Oh and btw... The expression is third banana; not second banana.

NBA_Starter
05-25-2014, 07:50 PM
I feel that a wing player would be a better wingman for Durant. No pun intended. Westbrook should be traded for a less ball dominant passing wing who can play good D. A tall order I know, but it is within the realm of possibility to acquire such a player.

Oh and btw... The expression is third banana; not second banana.

They need more help in the post, they shoot too many jumpers to win a Title.

HangingSlider84
05-25-2014, 08:20 PM
They can beat Indiana but they won't win it all

Hellcrooner
05-25-2014, 08:21 PM
If he does not get replaced no they cant.

If they lose him and Instead Add Carmelo or Dirk or Pau this summer yes they can.

Jamiecballer
05-25-2014, 09:06 PM
I feel that a wing player would be a better wingman for Durant. No pun intended. Westbrook should be traded for a less ball dominant passing wing who can play good D. A tall order I know, but it is within the realm of possibility to acquire such a player.

Oh and btw... The expression is third banana; not second banana.

I think you are confusing bananas with wheels but I digress

NBA_Starter
05-25-2014, 09:27 PM
If he does not get replaced no they cant.

If they lose him and Instead Add Carmelo or Dirk or Pau this summer yes they can.

They need to replace him for sure.

amos1er
05-25-2014, 09:51 PM
I don't think Aldride would help the heat any more than Bosh this year. All the others would make the Heat better than what Bosh can. Sure they would have to change a few things, but they would reap the benefits of these changes making them a better team.

Tough to say for sure. Duncan and Dirk have specific teams constructed around their talents in order to extract the max from them at the lesser minutes they now play. Wouldn't really work with a team designed around Lebron. Duncan and Dirk would both be reduced to jump shooting role players like Bosh. Wouldn't be bad for Dirk, but Duncan would not be utilized at all. Blake would have a Birdman like role only with higher minutes. Perhaps a few screen and rolls here and there. With Lebron and Wade's high usage, Blake would not have any opportunities like he has in LA. Lebron works best with high % jump shooters... Blake would be a horrible pick up for the Heat. The only one I could see working would be Love as he is an excellent jump shooter. The only thing would be that Lebron would have to be without the ball in his hands as much and he would lose out on assists, points, and especially rebounds. Being the stats conscious guy that Lebron is, I can't really see him being up for this unless Love agreed to change his game around much like Wade and Bosh had to do and sacrifice stats in order to play with Lebron. The only thing then would be is that a winning formula. Mix in the eastern conference and it just might be with the right coaching and supporting cast of three point snippers and guys willing to let their stat sheet take a hit in order to play with his majesty. Bosh is the perfect guy I always thought because of his ability to be so beta to Lebron who is himself a beta. Pretty hard to find a skilled vagina like Bosh around. The Heat are very lucky to have him as are the Lebron fans.

amos1er
05-25-2014, 09:54 PM
I think you are confusing bananas with wheels but I digress

Third wheel is like bringing an extra dude with you when you are trying to bang a chick or are on a date with a girl/girlfriend. In a team sporting concept, the correct term is third banana.

Jtirado16
05-25-2014, 09:59 PM
I do not think so. He's a great glue guy for them

Shammyguy3
05-26-2014, 12:01 AM
This current Miami team certainly cannot. Future Miami teams will have to, because although Bosh is far more talented than the names I'm about to bring up, the way he is utilized can be filled by cheaper players that better round out the team.

Say for example, all three guys opt out. The Heat resign Lebron and Wade, and then let Bosh walk. To replace him, they sign Marcin Gortat and Trevor Ariza.

Chalmers - Wade - Ariza - Lebron - Gortat

provides greater spacing, and greater rebounding. The interior defense is similar, the perimeter defense improves, trapping on picks would be tougher for Gortat. However the spacing improves and Gortat provides a legit 3rd option in the post/painted area. Ariza provides another 3&D guy that as a 4th ball-handler is fantastic.

Kushed
05-26-2014, 12:22 AM
Bosh one of most overrated players in game. Absolutely disappears for good stretches. Will light it up and make everyone think he's a top PF and then go back to ******** the bed. Very poor rebounder.

naps
05-26-2014, 12:45 AM
lol Bosh isn't Jason Kidd man...

Bosh gets them 15 points or so, Tyson gets you 10 on much fewer shots, except he's better on D, rebounding and just gives them more size.

MIA would be beast on D if you added Shump & Tyson to that team.

You probably never look beyond the boxscore, do you? It's not how much he scores himself. He has one of the most consistent and respected midrange shots among all bigmen in the league which is instrumental for LeBron/Wade's drives and cuts. And he is one of the smartest help defenders in the league as well. Bosh is supremely important to what Miami does both offensively and defensively.

JC_
05-26-2014, 01:54 AM
You probably never look beyond the boxscore, do you? It's not how much he scores himself. He has one of the most consistent and respected midrange shots among all bigmen in the league which is instrumental for LeBron/Wade's drives and cuts. And he is one of the smartest help defenders in the league as well. Bosh is supremely important to what Miami does both offensively and defensively.

This. Bosh might be struggling against Indy but luckily Wade is fresh after resting a lot of the season and is able to fill the void. Regarding this thread, it's like game 7 of the finals last year - critics will talk **** because of the stat sheet but Bosh played great.

DemarDerozan
05-26-2014, 05:28 AM
I can see him getting the Max on a small market team (Phoenix, Minny, Charlotte) but he will probably take a cut to 9-12mil per year to stay on a big market playoff contender.

He definitely wouldn't be the worst max out there and if he does go to a small market he can look like a superstar again for a couple years.

arlubas
05-26-2014, 09:14 AM
I think he's is, has been, and always will be, a horrible fit with Lebron and Wade. Bosh was a 24/12/2 player his last year in Toronto, and widely considered a top 5 PF. The system the Heat run is predicated on the playmaking of Wade and Lebron, not the low block scoring of Bosh. Rings are great, and playing with your friends is nice, but he really hurt his legacy by sacrificing so much more than anyone else to make that team work.

I'd love to see him opt out and put up 20/10 somewhere else.
Here's the thing though: he doesn't. He doesn't care or even want to be THE man on a team, that's why he headed down south. He enjoys being on a championship squad, not being the center of attention night in and night out and living the life of a champion. Would I have sacrificed so much if I were in his shoes? Absolutely not. But Bosh doesn't live his life to satisfy the fans' opinion but his own desires. And the place he's in right now is exactly the one he wants to be, he obviously doesn't care about being a 20/10 guy in this league anymore.

JasonJohnHorn
05-26-2014, 09:24 AM
Other than the first round, bosh played horrible, he plays like bargnani, doesn't rebound and only shoots 3s. However, the Heat is winning thanks to LBJ Wade and Allen. We all know he'll be gone if they Heat lose. The question is can they win it all with bosh playing like a girl?? If they do, does it mean Bosh will be gone next year regardless?? Is he still a max player??

Do we really need to go down this route with the chauvinism?

The WNBA may not be as entertaining as the NBA, but there are women in there that play hard and work the glass. We don't need to feminize a player to critique their game.


That said, given that they barely won last year, I'd say they have an up-hill battle. Can they do it? Obviously. On nights when Wade and James are playing at their potential, even with D-league players around them, they could beat the best team in the league, and with supporting players like Allen and Birdman, they always have a good shot.

slashsnake
05-26-2014, 09:32 AM
You probably never look beyond the boxscore, do you? It's not how much he scores himself. He has one of the most consistent and respected midrange shots among all bigmen in the league which is instrumental for LeBron/Wade's drives and cuts. And he is one of the smartest help defenders in the league as well. Bosh is supremely important to what Miami does both offensively and defensively.

What you bring up is describing a good role player though. Rasheed Wallace at the end of his career or Antonio McDyess late in his career. Hit the midrange and open the paint, play great help D.... Battier the past couple years has been a key part of the Heat for those two things.

I do agree on the importance.. It is kind of like Roy Hibbert, his stats aren't everything. But in games when he is clearly beaten in his individual matchups, he is losing his positional battle. Take games 6/7 of the Finals last year. Duncan outscored him by 44 and outrebounded him by 11 in those two games.

He is overrated if you look at him as a superstar. He's still a borderline star of the league though. Very important to his team, sure.

Munkeysuit
05-26-2014, 09:34 AM
Bosh is actually the best fit for this team and how it is designed, what I believe to be the problem is too many shots from the 3 (Chalmers/ Allen and now even Cole) that is taking away from Bosh's touches, I see Miami is running more backdoor plays out of the high post and it seems they never deliver towards the weak side in this series, because James or Wade is handling the ball for the majority of the possessions.
I feel like when Bosh plays with Haslem or Bird, he can be more of himself, when he's the lone big man with a smaller unit, its harder for him to be effective on the boards because of how Miami spaces the floor, its a wonder how great Miami shoots from the field and in the paint, because we don't get many second chance shots/ points, its like once the shot goes up, we are 1 and done almost every single time! it's really bizarre how we win games.

Yanks All Day
05-26-2014, 09:52 AM
You probably never look beyond the boxscore, do you? It's not how much he scores himself. He has one of the most consistent and respected midrange shots among all bigmen in the league which is instrumental for LeBron/Wade's drives and cuts. And he is one of the smartest help defenders in the league as well. Bosh is supremely important to what Miami does both offensively and defensively.

This is it. Put a traditional center in there like Tyson Chandler and other teams pack the paint, which is the exact opposite of what Miami usually wants to do. Bosh is one of the best mid-range shooters in all of basketball. He takes big men away from the basket. That's especially helpful to Dwyane Wade, who doesn't have as consistent a jumper as LeBron.

He'll usually play big in big games and do the things that don't show up on a stats sheet and get overlooked. Indy is a real tough matchup for Miami's big men, but it doesn't mean Bosh isn't useful against 28 other teams in the league. If Bosh hits a few big 3s in the Finals, I bet we see a bunch of threads saying how underrated he's been to Miami, as opposed to overrated. Bosh seems like a good guy who is gladly playing a 3rd option role when he could be the main scorer somewhere else. He means a lot more to Miami than everyone who says otherwise thinks.

beasted86
05-26-2014, 10:11 AM
This is it. Put a traditional center in there like Tyson Chandler and other teams pack the paint, which is the exact opposite of what Miami usually wants to do. Bosh is one of the best mid-range shooters in all of basketball. He takes big men away from the basket. That's especially helpful to Dwyane Wade, who doesn't have as consistent a jumper as LeBron.

He'll usually play big in big games and do the things that don't show up on a stats sheet and get overlooked. Indy is a real tough matchup for Miami's big men, but it doesn't mean Bosh isn't useful against 28 other teams in the league. If Bosh hits a few big 3s in the Finals, I bet we see a bunch of threads saying how underrated he's been to Miami, as opposed to overrated. Bosh seems like a good guy who is gladly playing a 3rd option role when he could be the main scorer somewhere else. He means a lot more to Miami than everyone who says otherwise thinks.

There are few people who seem to get it, but you do.

I don't understand how people don't see the value and impact of having a player that has the ability to force the other team's head coach to take a DPOY candidate off the floor so your best player has the floor spacing to drive in for the game winning layup. Having a big that has won quite a few games already with a 3 at the buzzer. You don't change the core, you build around it. If Bosh isn't worth $20M any more then negotiate a new deal.

The team might need to find ways to use Bosh better. He was a killer from the high post, able to drive right by his guy or hit the 15 footer, but they simply don't use him this way at all. As Wade gets older I see Bosh's scoring role increasing, but since the scoring model seems to be working, why try and fix what is broken? The team just posted the highest Fg% of all time in the regular season if I'm not mistaken. The team is one of the best at creating defections and turnovers with Bosh blitzing the p&r, but somehow our defense is broken also. Bosh somehow can't do anything right defensively or offensively, yet in the same breath people say he could be a 2nd option on another championship team. So why get rid of him then?

JasonJohnHorn
05-26-2014, 10:55 AM
There are few people who seem to get it, but you do.

I don't understand how people don't see the value and impact of having a player that has the ability to force the other team's head coach to take a DPOY candidate off the floor so your best player has the floor spacing to drive in for the game winning layup. Having a big that has won quite a few games already with a 3 at the buzzer. You don't change the core, you build around it. If Bosh isn't worth $20M any more then negotiate a new deal.

The team might need to find ways to use Bosh better. He was a killer from the high post, able to drive right by his guy or hit the 15 footer, but they simply don't use him this way at all. As Wade gets older I see Bosh's scoring role increasing, but since the scoring model seems to be working, why try and fix what is broken? The team just posted the highest Fg% of all time in the regular season if I'm not mistaken. The team is one of the best at creating defections and turnovers with Bosh blitzing the p&r, but somehow our defense is broken also. Bosh somehow can't do anything right defensively or offensively, yet in the same breath people say he could be a 2nd option on another championship team. So why get rid of him then?

On the offensive end Bosh is a great fit, no doubt.

I think most people's concern is his declining rebounding and the fact that he is not a defensive 'force' on the other end of the court. That is not to say he is a 'bad' defender, just not a 'force'. People are used to seeing strong defensive centers help championship teams: Chandler, Wallace, Shaq, Duncan. It is odd to see a team like Miami NOT have something comparable to those guys. And that said, they BARELY won it last year. They almost lost to Indy and they almost lost to SAS.

It's not like this is a fool proof approach. Had Indy's coach not taken Hibbert out on the last play in game one, and had Pop not taken Duncan out at the end of game six, the Heat likely wouldn't have been able to drive the lane against Indy and get those offensive rebounds to beat SAS.

The Heat have a great chemistry and they put themselves in a position to win, but I understand the frustration fans have with Bosh lack or rebounding and defensive dominance, but you are right, there is a fluid chemistry offensively that Bosh offers being able to take long jumpers.

That said, I think Kevin Love might be a better fit.

SilverFalco8
05-26-2014, 11:02 AM
They can probably manage. Haven't they done it before?

beyourself
05-26-2014, 11:04 AM
I think so. Because all 4 remaining teams have a weakness. A glaring weakness actually, it's not like the early 2000's Lakers or 90s Bulls where one team was dominant.

Spurs- Very old, lacking athleticism
Pacers- Lacking superstar player, struggle to score
Thunder- Horrible system, Lacking Front Line Depth
Heat- Terrible Rebounding, Big men get owned in the paint

So the Heat don't have a reliable banger, they have a weakness, but so does everyone else.

beasted86
05-26-2014, 11:31 AM
On the offensive end Bosh is a great fit, no doubt.

I think most people's concern is his declining rebounding and the fact that he is not a defensive 'force' on the other end of the court. That is not to say he is a 'bad' defender, just not a 'force'. People are used to seeing strong defensive centers help championship teams: Chandler, Wallace, Shaq, Duncan. It is odd to see a team like Miami NOT have something comparable to those guys. And that said, they BARELY won it last year. They almost lost to Indy and they almost lost to SAS.

It's not like this is a fool proof approach. Had Indy's coach not taken Hibbert out on the last play in game one, and had Pop not taken Duncan out at the end of game six, the Heat likely wouldn't have been able to drive the lane against Indy and get those offensive rebounds to beat SAS.

The Heat have a great chemistry and they put themselves in a position to win, but I understand the frustration fans have with Bosh lack or rebounding and defensive dominance, but you are right, there is a fluid chemistry offensively that Bosh offers being able to take long jumpers.

That said, I think Kevin Love might be a better fit.

Well every player has a unique fit and will impact the team positively in some was and negatively in other ways.

You claim that the only reason they beat Indiana and the Spurs is their coaches pulling their Centers, but fail to acknowledge Bosh is THE specific reason those players were pulled.

But getting back to what I said above, Bosh fits the team in a unique way that few others can. I've grown to appreciate his lateral speed on the pick and roll and ability to trap and recover. Love doesn't show nearly the activity level that Bosh does. I'm sure everybody will agree with that. Simply going under on most screens and boxing out for the rebound is not what I want from our big men. I don't think even with dedicated coaching Love can be as good as Bosh defending the pick and roll. He's also one of the worst big men in the NBA at protecting the rim, and all the stats are there to prove it.

Maybe I'm blinded by the on going success of the current team, but I can't see too many clear upgrades that can't be gained by simply using Bosh more effectively on offense and adding another shot blocker along side him so he doesn't have to bang for 36 minutes. If they get Bosh to cut down to around $17M and free enough room to use the full non-tax payer MLE, I think that's enough to bring in that suitable guy to play next to Bosh.

cssdmark
05-26-2014, 12:08 PM
Good for Miami and for NYK imo. Bosh could be a 20+/8 rebs player with his own squad. only problem is it would not be Bosh's squad it would be Melo's. If yhe heat win this year Bosh should opt out and go to Dallas, he is from there. He can get his numbers backup. At this rate he will not be a Hall of Fame but Lebron and D Wade will be.

cssdmark
05-26-2014, 12:17 PM
This is it. Put a traditional center in there like Tyson Chandler and other teams pack the paint, which is the exact opposite of what Miami usually wants to do. Bosh is one of the best mid-range shooters in all of basketball. He takes big men away from the basket. That's especially helpful to Dwyane Wade, who doesn't have as consistent a jumper as LeBron.

He'll usually play big in big games and do the things that don't show up on a stats sheet and get overlooked. Indy is a real tough matchup for Miami's big men, but it doesn't mean Bosh isn't useful against 28 other teams in the league. If Bosh hits a few big 3s in the Finals, I bet we see a bunch of threads saying how underrated he's been to Miami, as opposed to overrated. Bosh seems like a good guy who is gladly playing a 3rd option role when he could be the main scorer somewhere else. He means a lot more to Miami than everyone who says otherwise thinks.
I agree I believe Bosh has sacrificed a lot and is under appreciated. I hear him and Lebron are really not that close, to me it appears he gets phased out too much. If they win this year, if I was him it would be time to go. He would have three rings. Time to get those numbers back up and try to get in the Hall.

dalton749
05-26-2014, 12:52 PM
Bosh should come back to toronto
he would fit in perfectly now and make them a contender to come out of the east

JasonJohnHorn
05-26-2014, 01:21 PM
Well every player has a unique fit and will impact the team positively in some was and negatively in other ways.

You claim that the only reason they beat Indiana and the Spurs is their coaches pulling their Centers, but fail to acknowledge Bosh is THE specific reason those players were pulled.

But getting back to what I said above, Bosh fits the team in a unique way that few others can. I've grown to appreciate his lateral speed on the pick and roll and ability to trap and recover. Love doesn't show nearly the activity level that Bosh does. I'm sure everybody will agree with that. Simply going under on most screens and boxing out for the rebound is not what I want from our big men. I don't think even with dedicated coaching Love can be as good as Bosh defending the pick and roll. He's also one of the worst big men in the NBA at protecting the rim, and all the stats are there to prove it.

Maybe I'm blinded by the on going success of the current team, but I can't see too many clear upgrades that can't be gained by simply using Bosh more effectively on offense and adding another shot blocker along side him so he doesn't have to bang for 36 minutes. If they get Bosh to cut down to around $17M and free enough room to use the full non-tax payer MLE, I think that's enough to bring in that suitable guy to play next to Bosh.

I don't mean to say Miami only one because the coaches pulled those players, just noting that things could have turned out differently. One call goes this way, one ball bounces this way, and all of a sudden, the Spurs win their fifth banner against the Pacers.

But Miami PUT themselves in a position to win, and that is 99% of the battle. Miami is a GREAT team and they EARNED every win. There are evenly match teams out there, and last year the Pacers and Heat were evenly matched and the Spurs and the Heat were evenly matched. Those series could have went either way, and all I mean to say by that is that the formula that Miami is using is GREAT but that it's not unbeatable.

The Bulls in 91 were unbeatable. There was no question about who the best team in the league was that year, and the same can be said for the 96 Bulls as well. The Heat, last year, won the title, but there were two other teams that were just as good. The Heat earned their banner with skill and talent and hard work and solid coaching and nobody can take anything away from them, but if Bosh were Bosh on offense and looked more like Serge Ibaka on defense, then the Heat would likely finish the playoffs with a record of 16-4 at the very worst and perhaps a record as good as 16-2 like the 91 Bulls.

DoMeFavors
05-26-2014, 01:21 PM
Yes I feel like if Bosh leaves the Heat should try to get Boozer and then move Andersen to starting C. That team could be better.

diu9leilomo
05-26-2014, 01:56 PM
Bosh should come back to toronto
he would fit in perfectly now and make them a contender to come out of the east

he'll only be a good fit if cheap. He'll probably be another 3rd option, behind demar and lowry..

diu9leilomo
05-26-2014, 02:03 PM
Yes I feel like if Bosh leaves the Heat should try to get Boozer and then move Andersen to starting C. That team could be better.

not sure if boozer's defense is acceptable tho...he is SLOW

Ty Fast
05-26-2014, 02:14 PM
bosh dosnt care about putting up stats. he cares about winning.

IKnowHoops
05-26-2014, 02:27 PM
Tough to say for sure. Duncan and Dirk have specific teams constructed around their talents in order to extract the max from them at the lesser minutes they now play. Wouldn't really work with a team designed around Lebron. Duncan and Dirk would both be reduced to jump shooting role players like Bosh. Wouldn't be bad for Dirk, but Duncan would not be utilized at all. Blake would have a Birdman like role only with higher minutes. Perhaps a few screen and rolls here and there. With Lebron and Wade's high usage, Blake would not have any opportunities like he has in LA. Lebron works best with high % jump shooters... Blake would be a horrible pick up for the Heat. The only one I could see working would be Love as he is an excellent jump shooter. The only thing would be that Lebron would have to be without the ball in his hands as much and he would lose out on assists, points, and especially rebounds. Being the stats conscious guy that Lebron is, I can't really see him being up for this unless Love agreed to change his game around much like Wade and Bosh had to do and sacrifice stats in order to play with Lebron. The only thing then would be is that a winning formula. Mix in the eastern conference and it just might be with the right coaching and supporting cast of three point snippers and guys willing to let their stat sheet take a hit in order to play with his majesty. Bosh is the perfect guy I always thought because of his ability to be so beta to Lebron who is himself a beta. Pretty hard to find a skilled vagina like Bosh around. The Heat are very lucky to have him as are the Lebron fans.

I completely disagree with the theory blake would not work well with the Heat. He would be just like Lebron and Wade. The three of them all finish at the rim great, and all three are great passers. I see the three of them getting each other a lot more open dunks and cuts to the basket, much like Blake gets deandre.

IKnowHoops
05-26-2014, 02:32 PM
I completely disagree with the theory blake would not work well with the Heat. He would be just like Lebron and Wade. The three of them all finish at the rim great, and all three are great passers. I see the three of them getting each other a lot more open dunks and cuts to the basket, much like Blake gets deandre.

Lebron doesn't need someone who can hit jumpers, he needs someone who can put the ball in the hoop at a high percentage. Lebron doing pick and roll with Blake would be dirty. And Blake doing pick and roll with Bron would be nasty. Both doing pick and roll with Wade would be nasty. And Blake or Bron following the play from behind the pick and roll would be nasty. Lebron is a chameleon and can adapt to any style of play. I think a change in style would be great for the Heat, and I think it would play more to Lebron's strengths. Ray would still be on the floor and Norris or Chalmers could still be on the floor and they would still have great spacing with elite finishing. I think the offense is better with Blake.

mjm07
05-26-2014, 02:35 PM
Yes I feel like if Bosh leaves the Heat should try to get Boozer and then move Andersen to starting C. That team could be better.

Pass over here whatever you're smoking, homie! lol

mjm07
05-26-2014, 02:36 PM
bosh dosnt care about putting up stats. he cares about winning.

This. HEAT don't beat Spurs without Bosh. Among many other games. HEAT need Bosh. /thread

DoMeFavors
05-26-2014, 02:37 PM
Pass over here whatever you're smoking, homie! lol

Bosh camps at the 3 point line you can pay a guy the vet min to do that, Boozer has been mostly a winner his entire career. Bosh was putting up stats on bad Raptors teams. Bosh gets out played nearly every game.

mjm07
05-26-2014, 02:53 PM
Bosh camps at the 3 point line you can pay a guy the vet min to do that, Boozer has been mostly a winner his entire career. Bosh was putting up stats on bad Raptors teams. Bosh gets out played nearly every game.

I'll take Bosh over Boozer, happily, any day of the week. No thks.

smiddy012
05-26-2014, 02:58 PM
I think Miami would be better off with an elite rebounder/shot-blocker than Bosh. Such a defensive improvement would more than make up for whatever offense was lost (if not simply replaced). Even a guy like Asik would have an overall greater impact on the Heat than Bosh IMO, in fact just the idea of that is kinda scary as a Bull's fan.

That said, the two times Miami eliminated the Bulls from the playoffs (when Rose was healthy), Bosh very much was the key difference maker.

Either way you look at it, Miami's in a good spot. Can't see any of the big three leaving if they win it again this year.

Lim
05-26-2014, 03:33 PM
They won last year without him... If I recall he had a donut in game 7 of the finals last year... Wade is playing 3x better than last year... However there is no reason why Bosh cant average 10 rebounds a game... especially on a horrible rebounding team like the heat... He doesn't like to bang down low in order to conserve energy.... for what? To miss open jump shots? Lmfao

Yanks All Day
05-26-2014, 03:56 PM
They won last year without him... If I recall he had a donut in game 7 of the finals last year... Wade is playing 3x better than last year... However there is no reason why Bosh cant average 10 rebounds a game... especially on a horrible rebounding team like the heat... He doesn't like to bang down low in order to conserve energy.... for what? To miss open jump shots? Lmfao

Chris Bosh was 0-5 from the field in Game 7. He had 7 rebounds, 3 of them offensive. He focused all of energy on defense, and held Tim Duncan to 8-18 from the floor (though TD still put up 24/12 for the game). Game 7, offensively, was mostly LeBron James and a lot of Dwyane Wade. The duo went 23-44 from the field for 60 points and 22 rebounds. When your best players are working, you get out of their way and do the other things to help the team win. The Heat don't beat the Spurs without Chris Bosh.

slashsnake
05-26-2014, 04:08 PM
I get that Indy made the mistake of pulling Roy last year, but come on. Roy KILLED Bosh last year in that series because of who Bosh is in the paint. The last 4 games of that series, Bosh was averaging 7 points and 5 boards on 23% shooting. Hibbert was averaging 22-9 on 59% shooting.

Again, everything I hear describes Horry, Rasheed, and McDyess.

I can't tell you how much a guy like Bill Wennington opened up the paint for Jordan and Pippen. He played good team defense against much better bigs. He hit big shots when they kicked it to him.

OK I get how important that is. NOT arguing that. Bosh has ALWAYS had an excellent midrange shot. But you were able to talk about how he also took over games offensively. How he would get you 23 and 11 and dominate his matchup making it easier on his teammates. How you could go through him to run your offense and defense. His midrange shot didn't make him a superstar. His help D didn't make him a superstar. They were part of it, sure. But just a couple parts. Those things don't make him an elite player.

JC_
05-26-2014, 04:42 PM
I get that Indy made the mistake of pulling Roy last year, but come on. Roy KILLED Bosh last year in that series because of who Bosh is in the paint. The last 4 games of that series, Bosh was averaging 7 points and 5 boards on 23% shooting. Hibbert was averaging 22-9 on 59% shooting.



Hibbert was destroying the whole Heat team last year. He was playing out of this world and he was such an intimidating presence that pretty much every Heat player was afraid to drive to the basket. This series, Hibbert was 3-9 with Bosh guarding him in game 1, after which Bosh was put on West, which is about the worst match-up you can give him. The Haslem + Bosh combo is terrible against Indy so I'm not sure why Spo has been using it (must be some kind of jedi mind trick). Either way, Bosh isn't really put in a position to succeed this series. He just needs to give max effort when he's in and the Heat will take care of business.

D-Leethal
05-26-2014, 05:17 PM
Bosh is still an all star he is just playing the role of a 4th option perimeter jump shooter. When your feeding off table scraps, some nights you ain't gonna eat.

P&GRealist
05-26-2014, 05:23 PM
Bosh camps at the 3 point line you can pay a guy the vet min to do that, Boozer has been mostly a winner his entire career. Bosh was putting up stats on bad Raptors teams. Bosh gets out played nearly every game.

What has Carlos Boozer ever won in his career? He's been a bum for the Bulls the last 3 yrs, he hasn't lived up to his max contract that he signed in the summer of 2010. Not even close to it. And he couldn't get jack **** done in Utah with that guy in your sig pic. Boozer is overrated as hell and his best yrs are behind him. Bulls need to amnesty his *** this summer.

smith&wesson
05-26-2014, 05:26 PM
lol no ones actually answering the thread question.

the question is "can Miami win with out Bosh"??? The answer is, yes they can and they pretty much are.. it doesnt hurt having him, but do they NEED him ?? not at all.

cssdmark
05-26-2014, 05:28 PM
No thank you. Tyson Chandler is not the same player anymore and I want no part of Shump. Bosh is infinitely better. Don't just look at the boxscore when judging players; What Bosh does for the Heat is never shown on the stat sheet.
I agree I would not waste my time with Bosh if I was NYC there are more impactful players to spend your max on, like Marc a Gasol he can bang down low, post up and pass. Bosh is a good player but he would bring nothing to the Knicks. Keep Shump and trade Chandler for a draft pick.

D-Leethal
05-26-2014, 05:29 PM
lol no ones actually answering the thread question.

the question is "can Miami win with out Bosh"??? The answer is, yes they can and they pretty much are.. it doesnt hurt having him, but do they NEED him ?? not at all.

Goes to show the talent level on this team. They have 20-10 all stars playing roles designed for 8-5 role players.

smith&wesson
05-26-2014, 05:29 PM
Bosh camps at the 3 point line you can pay a guy the vet min to do that, Boozer has been mostly a winner his entire career. Bosh was putting up stats on bad Raptors teams. Bosh gets out played nearly every game.

thats crazy talk bro, Bosh is a much better two way player than boozer ever was or will be.

you must remember that bosh plays with two superstars and is forced to playoff the ball other wise he could easily average 24 & 11 like he was in Toronto before he want to Miami. Boozers defence leaves much to be desired, and if you replace boozer with bosh the bulls become a better team instantly.

smith&wesson
05-26-2014, 06:01 PM
Goes to show the talent level on this team. They have 20-10 all stars playing roles designed for 8-5 role players.

and paying that allstar 19 + million this year and 20 + million next year, and 22 + million the season after that to be a role player. :laugh2:

meanwhile teams like the twolves cant hold on to the one all star they drafted and are forever stuck in rebuild mode. there will never ever be any parity in this league in terms of talent disparity. they should make it a 4 team league because thats what it basically is. its a joke.

slashsnake
05-26-2014, 06:02 PM
Hibbert was destroying the whole Heat team last year. He was playing out of this world and he was such an intimidating presence that pretty much every Heat player was afraid to drive to the basket. This series, Hibbert was 3-9 with Bosh guarding him in game 1, after which Bosh was put on West, which is about the worst match-up you can give him. The Haslem + Bosh combo is terrible against Indy so I'm not sure why Spo has been using it (must be some kind of jedi mind trick). Either way, Bosh isn't really put in a position to succeed this series. He just needs to give max effort when he's in and the Heat will take care of business.

Not just defensively, though he didn't look good against either big in that series. Bosh wasn't a great help defender in the post on Hibbert or West, and didn't look great manning them either. And it wasn't just that series, though it exposed him. Duncan looked 5 years younger playing Bosh and that was a series Miami went smaller a lot and they were 1 on 1 a whole bunch with Mike Miller getting Haslems minutes.

I think Bosh is better than Boozer, but those two were pretty much a wash in last years playoffs. Miami had the much better team for sure, but those two were a standstill.

slashsnake
05-26-2014, 06:16 PM
Chris Bosh was 0-5 from the field in Game 7. He had 7 rebounds, 3 of them offensive. He focused all of energy on defense, and held Tim Duncan to 8-18 from the floor (though TD still put up 24/12 for the game).

Exactly. The heat had to ride James and Wade because Bosh got outscored by 24 points at his position. All that and defensively he "held" Duncan to two of his 3 best games of the playoffs in games 6 and 7 and while he was on the floor the Spurs outscored the Heat in those games.

Again, what stars do that? Where's the game Lebron scored 0 because he was working so hard on D, or Duncan? Rodman did it but Rodman wasn't a super star for his play. He was a role player on a great team, not a star who could lead one. And no offense to Bosh, but his defense isn't on par with Rodman.

amos1er
05-26-2014, 06:33 PM
Lebron doesn't need someone who can hit jumpers, he needs someone who can put the ball in the hoop at a high percentage. Lebron doing pick and roll with Blake would be dirty. And Blake doing pick and roll with Bron would be nasty. Both doing pick and roll with Wade would be nasty. And Blake or Bron following the play from behind the pick and roll would be nasty. Lebron is a chameleon and can adapt to any style of play. I think a change in style would be great for the Heat, and I think it would play more to Lebron's strengths. Ray would still be on the floor and Norris or Chalmers could still be on the floor and they would still have great spacing with elite finishing. I think the offense is better with Blake.

I had to Lol @ that.

amos1er
05-26-2014, 06:36 PM
Bosh camps at the 3 point line you can pay a guy the vet min to do that, Boozer has been mostly a winner his entire career. Bosh was putting up stats on bad Raptors teams. Bosh gets out played nearly every game.

Haha... Ya, Lebron turned a max franchise player into a taller Shane Battier.

amos1er
05-26-2014, 06:41 PM
bosh dosnt care about putting up stats. he cares about winning.

Too bad the leader of his team does not share this same sentiment. Lucky for him, his two franchise player side-kicks are willing to sacrifice.

amos1er
05-26-2014, 06:43 PM
Bosh is still an all star he is just playing the role of a 4th option perimeter jump shooter. When your feeding off table scraps, some nights you ain't gonna eat.

Hahaha. Hilarious but true.

mjm07
05-26-2014, 07:27 PM
Too bad the leader of his team does not share this same sentiment. Lucky for him, his two franchise player side-kicks are willing to sacrifice.

Troll, troll, troll your boat.

smith&wesson
05-26-2014, 07:33 PM
gently down psd lol

ATX
05-26-2014, 07:33 PM
Troll, troll, troll your boat.

lol, seriously…The second he gets off ban, just immediately resorts back to his disruptive Heat/James trolling.

Yanks All Day
05-26-2014, 11:08 PM
We might never know if the Heat can win it all without Bosh, but we do know they're pretty much unbeatable when he shows up. I think Miami will take that.