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Im_in_Mia_bish
05-22-2014, 12:24 AM
Let's take a quick glance at the MVP's stats this post season:
KEVIN DURANT
PPG- 31.1
APG- 4.4
RPG- 9.5
FG%- 45.8
FT%- 83.1
TO- 4.1
WS- 2.2
WS/48- .171
PER- 23.2

I'm just thinking what abuse lebron would've gotten if he ever put up these **** stats up throughout the FULL postseason. Hell, we remember the pile on from the 2011 nba finals..

It's time to stop thinking of excuses like "Westbrook" or "Brooks" and to finally give heat to where it's due. And that's at the MVP, Kevin Durant.

Now I get it that there will be Durant apologists, as there always are.. But let's be real.. No amount of "you the real MVP" speeches can help the thunder get past the spurs. The time for speeches has passed. It's time to put up or shut up.

Hopefully we see much better production from the MVP.

The sad thing is that these stats doesn't reflect the **** game he just had! Yikes!

Thoughts?

mdm692
05-22-2014, 12:28 AM
Didn't it take Jordan, and Lebron for that matter, like 8 years to get his first ring.

Im_in_Mia_bish
05-22-2014, 12:30 AM
Didn't it take Jordan like 8 years to get his first ring and a couple tries to get past the bad boy pistons?

? What the hell does this have to do with anything?

This is about durant's playoff production.
The thunder are a solid team, and MJ still dominated and didn't put up pathetic stats that kd is doing at the moment..

Im_in_Mia_bish
05-22-2014, 12:31 AM
Didn't it take Jordan, and Lebron for that matter, like 8 years to get his first ring.

Neither lebron nor Jordan put up these pathetic stats for the full playoffs. This is the worst playoff production since his first year in the postseason..

jerellh528
05-22-2014, 12:36 AM
Neither lebron nor Jordan put up these pathetic stats for the full playoffs. This is the worst playoff production since his first year in the postseason..

You're so right
31 point
4 assists
10 rebounds
I can't believe his lack of production.

jerellh528
05-22-2014, 12:43 AM
? Do you comprehend what wS/48- .171 is? Or is that not something that you fully understand? Or the fact that he almost has a 1:1 assist to turnover ratio?

Let alone his nonexistent defense so far this postseason? My goodness.. First Kobe slurping and now kd? You do realize that he's the biggest threat to your lakers right? Lol!!

I can just imagine you a few years later hating on Durant. Typical.

Calm down fido. I'm agreeing with you.
He should be averaging at least 40 points, 10 assists, 12 rebounds and 0 turnovers a game with a 40 per.

Im_in_Mia_bish
05-22-2014, 12:45 AM
Calm down fido. I'm agreeing with you.
He should be averaging at least 40 points, 10 assists, 12 rebounds and 0 turnovers a game with a 40 per.

Or his ws/48 could be at .290, and he could learn to stop turning the ball over.

Leave it to a lakers fan to support someone who is bricking nonstop.

P&GRealist
05-22-2014, 12:48 AM
Let's take a quick glance at the MVP's stats this post season:
KEVIN DURANT
PPG- 31.1
APG- 4.4
RPG- 9.5
FG%- 45.8
FT%- 83.1
TO- 4.1
WS- 2.2
WS/48- .171
PER- 23.2

I'm just thinking what abuse lebron would've gotten if he ever put up these **** stats up throughout the FULL postseason. Hell, we remember the pile on from the 2011 nba finals..

It's time to stop thinking of excuses like "Westbrook" or "Brooks" and to finally give heat to where it's due. And that's at the MVP, Kevin Durant.

Now I get it that there will be Durant apologists, as there always are.. But let's be real.. No amount of "you the real MVP" speeches can help the thunder get past the spurs. The time for speeches has passed. It's time to put up or shut up.

Hopefully we see much better production from the MVP.

The sad thing is that these stats doesn't reflect the **** game he just had! Yikes!

Thoughts?

Durant won MVP, LeBron didn't.

Get over it.

Tittays

Im_in_Mia_bish
05-22-2014, 12:49 AM
Damn i guess people are still salty that lebron is still the best player in the league.

P&GRealist
05-22-2014, 12:51 AM
Damn i guess people are still salty that lebron is still the best player in the league.

And yet it's DWade closing out playoff games for them.

Lay off KD. Dude. Series isn't over yet.

jerellh528
05-22-2014, 12:52 AM
^ seriously lol

Im_in_Mia_bish
05-22-2014, 12:55 AM
And yet it's DWade closing out playoff games for them.

Lay off KD. Dude. Series isn't over yet.

So.. Lebron who is averaging 29/7/5 on 56%, with PER of 31.3 and ws/48 of .294 is getting his playoff games closed out for him? Gotcha.
Makes sense.

Bigbadmoffo
05-22-2014, 12:59 AM
Mvp goes to best regular season player end of story

mngopher35
05-22-2014, 01:10 AM
I do think Lebron is still the better player but it doesn't mean that Durant isn't close. It isn't like his production has been horrible this post season, you are exaggerating. Their team lost Ibaka and now they are likely going to lose to a great spurs team (series isn't over yet though). Yes he needs to improve his game still but he is only 25 and just won the MVP for the best regular season. Next year hopefully his team is at full health all playoffs.

WadeCounty
05-22-2014, 01:19 AM
I'm sorry, maybe it's because I might be slow and unaware of it but those stats look pretty good imo. I will admit I don't understand what the last 3 stats mean:
WS- 2.2
WS/48- .171
PER- 23.2

Granted he has more turnovers than assists but then again he does handle the ball a lot and chucks a lot of shots up

P&GRealist
05-22-2014, 01:25 AM
So.. Lebron who is averaging 29/7/5 on 56%, with PER of 31.3 and ws/48 of .294 is getting his playoff games closed out for him? Gotcha.
Makes sense.

Wade closed the deal yesterday against INDY in what was their most difficult gut-wrenching game played of these playoffs.

Nice try though.

mngopher35
05-22-2014, 01:26 AM
They are pretty good stats, it is an overreaction.

Im_in_Mia_bish
05-22-2014, 01:31 AM
They are pretty good stats, it is an overreaction.

It may be a little bit of an overreaction, but there's no denying his defense is suspect and he's getting exposed big time defensively.

I'm just annoyed because people throw out the 1A to 1B but refuse to give him the superstar pressure. Regardless of what stats any heat members put up, if the heat lose and lebron still dominates he gets pressure.

Durant, if the thunder do lose, deserves some heat. Simple as that.

nastynice
05-22-2014, 01:34 AM
You're so right
31 point
4 assists
10 rebounds
I can't believe his lack of production.

lol, same thing I thought when reading those stats. I couldn't even tell in the op if this guy was making a case FOR or AGAINST?

houstonfan
05-22-2014, 01:34 AM
Alright fine clearly OKC traded the wrong guy... we will give yall Harden back and we get Durant. You're welcome Thunder fans.

BTW if you think Durant is unreliable did you see Harden this postseason? Holy hell this dude sucked...

houstonfan
05-22-2014, 01:35 AM
Wade closed the deal yesterday against INDY in what was their most difficult gut-wrenching game played of these playoffs.

Nice try though.

Wait because he got a wide open dunk when Lebron passed it to him? Because both Lebron and Wade closed that game out, not just Wade...

nastynice
05-22-2014, 01:42 AM
Last post mighta made sense if I were a laker fan. But I'm not. So it didn't.

What you so angry about? miami had a big win yesterday...

beyourself
05-22-2014, 01:49 AM
So just put some numbers up there and ignore all context? I'll be the first to admit Durant isn't playing as well as I should, but this thread literally adds nothing to basketball discussion. It looks more like a pile on to me from a guy who enjoys seeing Durant struggle.

P&GRealist
05-22-2014, 01:56 AM
Oh ok, so because wade closed down yesterday's game, which btw lebron assisted him on and lebron scored 12 points in the 4th quarter, it must mean something.

I think you need to analyze a different sport. Basketball isn't your cup of tea obviously.

When did you start watching basketball?


Oh yes, maybe around July 8th, 2010?

mngopher35
05-22-2014, 01:59 AM
It may be a little bit of an overreaction, but there's no denying his defense is suspect and he's getting exposed big time defensively.

I'm just annoyed because people throw out the 1A to 1B but refuse to give him the superstar pressure. Regardless of what stats any heat members put up, if the heat lose and lebron still dominates he gets pressure.

Durant, if the thunder do lose, deserves some heat. Simple as that.

Sure, some people will definitely want to blame him and I'm sure they will. Just because a few posters on here (many with an obvious agenda) wanted to prop him up as the best in the world after 1 regular season doesn't mean much to me. I watched Durant have a less than spectacular playoffs, it is what it is. He wasn't bad by any means but I wasn't overly impressed either. Ibaka is now injured so their chances of coming back are/were pretty slim without a dominant performance vs. the Spurs. He is 25 with plenty of time to grow and improve next year with a hopefully healthy team.

Sactown
05-22-2014, 02:12 AM
I'm a LeBron Fan and we saw what happened to LeBron the first time he met San Antonio in the playoffs... They're a tough team.. in 2006 LeBron posted 14 points 4 assists and 6 turnovers.. in the finals against them.. Yeah KD isn't impressing me, but its not the first time an MVP candidate has struggled against them

Im_in_Mia_bish
05-22-2014, 02:13 AM
Sure, some people will definitely want to blame him and I'm sure they will. Just because a few posters on here (many with an obvious agenda) wanted to prop him up as the best in the world after 1 regular season doesn't mean much to me. I watched Durant have a less than spectacular playoffs, it is what it is. He wasn't bad by any means but I wasn't overly impressed either. Ibaka is now injured so their chances of coming back are/were pretty slim without a dominant performance vs. the Spurs. He is 25 with plenty of time to grow and improve next year with a hopefully healthy team.

There will always be agenda driven fans on here. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the general media. It's always westbrook's fault or brook's fault.

For lebron, it doesn't work that way.

Look if kd dominates and wills his team to the finals, I'll be more than happy to give him credit.. I just think it's unfair the amount of criticism he gets compared to the praise he gets. He has a cushion..

All I ask for is fair blame. If people think that this is a troll thread, well.. Idk what to say then..

nastynice
05-22-2014, 02:21 AM
Lebron's the best player in the league. He's going to get criticized more than other players. That's how its always been, from the lakers in the 80's, to the bulls in the 90's, to the lakers/spurs in the 00's. Take it as a compliment, instead of getting butthurt.

Leftcoast_yg
05-22-2014, 02:21 AM
Word

mngopher35
05-22-2014, 02:44 AM
There will always be agenda driven fans on here. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the general media. It's always westbrook's fault or brook's fault.

For lebron, it doesn't work that way.

Look if kd dominates and wills his team to the finals, I'll be more than happy to give him credit.. I just think it's unfair the amount of criticism he gets compared to the praise he gets. He has a cushion..

All I ask for is fair blame. If people think that this is a troll thread, well.. Idk what to say then..

Not everyone has had the same pressure as him throughout his career, that is just how it is. He has been pushed by the media since he was in High School and pushed down people's throats as the best player in the league by some as early as 2007 when he made the finals (for me it was later). Now he is on a 2 time championship team looking to repeat. With all of the praise also comes incredible expectations even if some of it was unfair (like him winning in Cleveland with that roster). I don't think it is always fair how people give out blame, which is why I think this is harsh too. Just because one guy gets criticized too much doesn't mean we have to go overboard with every body.

I don't think your intent was necessarily to troll but it does kinda sound like a "hey look Lebron is still the best and we should bash Durant" thread. I just don't see the need for it really but I can understand a Heat's fans frustration as I like Lebron a lot too and there can be a higher standard set.

Durant has played good but not great throughout the post-season. There is no real reason to blame him in my eyes as they have made it this far and are losing to a great SA team without their 3rd guy in Ibaka.

HYFR
05-22-2014, 03:23 AM
OP just mad cuz his girl is from San Antonio

tredigs
05-22-2014, 03:47 AM
Lebron had a much better offensive cast + offensive system and only shot 44% on 25 a game against San Antonio last year. And their team (SAS) is even better this year. No Ibaka means 3 offensive liabilities on the floor against a team (when Green + Kawhi are in) that has 4 high end defenders in a groomed system. Memphis was also an extremely tough matchup for KD due to their combo of elite wing and post defenders (always has been). His/the teams struggles against these elite D's (especially with the first two in San Antonio) should not really surprise anyone, but I do find it funny how angry it makes you that there is not marching in the streets against him on account of it.

Also, what HYFR said.

WadeKobe
05-22-2014, 03:51 AM
This is so ridiculous. Durant is facing some great teams and his production mirrors that fact. Just like when Lebron faced great teams and his production suffered, or anyone else.

Players aren't machines. They struggle sometimes, especially against great teams, regardless of how great they are.

rex.reyesiii
05-22-2014, 04:06 AM
^ so far the greatest then is that 2011 Dallas Team. :)

FraziersKnicks
05-22-2014, 05:59 AM
Lets be real here, KD is still putting up numbers that maybe only 3-4 players in the league can (LeBron, Love and Griffin being the others). However his play in the playoffs this year is a drop off from the regular season.

PPG: 32 -------- 30.1
RPG: 7.4 ------- 9.4
APG: 5.5 ------- 4.2
FG%: 50.3 ----- 45.4
3PT%: 39.1 ---- 35.0
FT%: 87.3 ------ 82.2
TOPG: 3.5 ------ 4.0
PER: 29.8 ------ 22.6
WS/48: .295 --- .191

He's playing against some great defence but he isn't adjusting his game, he isn't facilitating when his shot isn't falling, he's still putting up contested jumpers instead of driving the lane. When you're the regular season MVP, you're expected to elevate your game in the playoffs if you want to be regarded as top dog in the league. Yes the competition is fiercer but that's what the playoffs are about. It's the best teams left in the league.

KD has seemed passive at times in this postseason, scared of the pressure that being the MVP has bought him. He is showing the same characteristics that many accused LeBron of before he got it and won that first title.

We all wondered whether he would be able to keep up his stellar play going into the postseason but his inability to raise his game is further proof that he's still not on LeBron's tier.

tredigs
05-22-2014, 06:23 AM
In Lebron's first Finals against the Spurs he averaged 22 ppg on 35.6% from the field. In the first 3 games in the Finals last season (2 losses, 2 games at home) he averaged 16 ppg on on 41% from the field before he/they began to turn it around; That was with a far better offensive cast and offensive system then we're seeing from OKC (he got a hell of a lot more help than a late 3 from Ray, Hawk. 4 other 10+ ppg scorers who did it on efficiency and ramped up their D big time. Durant has no chance as OKC is currently constructed). 'Bron is better than Durant, but let's not kid ourselves here. This team can make superstars look very mortal.

FraziersKnicks
05-22-2014, 06:39 AM
In Lebron's first Finals against the Spurs he averaged 22 ppg on 35.6% from the field. In the first 3 games in the Finals last season (2 losses, 2 games at home) he averaged 16 ppg on on 41% from the field before he/they began to turn it around; That was with a far better offensive cast and offensive system then we're seeing from OKC (he got a hell of a lot more help than a late 3 from Ray, Hawk. 4 other 10+ ppg scorers who did it on efficiency and ramped up their D big time. Durant has no chance as OKC is currently constructed). 'Bron is better than Durant, but let's not kid ourselves here. This team can make superstars look very mortal.

A 21 year old LeBron who's best sidekick was Zydrunas Ilgauskas? I'm gonna give him a pass there. That LeBron was nowhere near to the player KD is now.

You're right LeBron was stifled offensively in those first few games but he knew his shot wasn't falling and he wasn't getting good looks so he adapted his game. He also averaged 12.3 rebounds, 7.3 assists, 1.7 steals and 1 block whilst only turning the ball over twice a game in that 3 game stretch where he wasn't scoring well. That is the difference between the two, LeBron's ability to completely take over other aspects of the game and know when to do it is what separates them still.

It's unfortunate for KD that Ibaka is injured and and he has an inept coach but how many more excuses is he gonna get? He has a fantastic supporting cast (better than anything LeBron ever had in Cleveland). With the lack of scoring options now Ibaka is injured I would expect KD to REALLY elevate his game and completely take over the scoring load like no one else in the league can (LeBron included) exactly like he did in the regular season when Westy was out, but he's not and it's a disappointment. We know he can't elevate other aspects of his game like LeBron can but I would expect more explosive scoring from him considering that is EXACTLY what OKC needs right now (along with better interior D).

sammyvine
05-22-2014, 06:52 AM
your always making threads on durant

is he always on your mind ffs?

tredigs
05-22-2014, 06:55 AM
@Frazier -- Without Ibaka and w/ Scott Brooks as coach they're "a fantastic supporting cast"? That's a pretty **** supporting cast to start Thabo (who has fallen off to the point where he can't even hit open 3's), Collison (5 points in 2 games?) and Kendrick Perkins (enough said) if you ask me. And the Spurs bench is easily better than OKC so they don't make up any ground there. Despite Westbrook, it's really not better than what we saw from Bron in Cleveland when one of those two are out. Maybe next season if Adams really comes into form and they can toss Perkins aside they will get back to their elite ways (assuming they don't lose one of their big 3 midway through the playoffs again).

Bron was 22, in his 4th year and well developed as a capable 30/7/7 guy at that point btw. I can't offer him too much of a pass other than knowing just how well SAS can gameplan against one dimensional offenses (KD fared better than Lebron did in a similar situation against the Heat in the Finals). But yes, as I said Lebron is better than KD due to being more well rounded (although KD has proven throughout the year that he is very, very well rounded himself despite these games).

As for OKC needing Durant to just go ham scoring wise to win these games? Not going to cut it. Even if he got into "the zone" and was able to drop 40 on 65% against that suffocating D, they'd still have lost the game tonight by double digits. He needs his teammates to rally around him and actually contribute; and he needs a coach that can best put them in a situation to do just that. But, that simply isn't going to happen for 4 games.

Like I called once Ibaka went down, Spurs in 5.

king4day
05-22-2014, 08:17 AM
I get the feeling if the heat and spurs meet in the finals, Lebrons numbers won't look so good either.

For the other series, okc played stiff competition. He's still the reason they are in the wcf

JasonJohnHorn
05-22-2014, 08:31 AM
Does the OP realize he just posted AMAZING stats and then they were bad?

WTF?

Those are INCREDIBLE stats.


And let's be honest. LBJ is playing with a health Wade (>Westy) and a healthy Bosh (>Ibaka) and he's played NOTHING but SUB-500 teams (or close to it) going into the conference finals and is now playing a team that was sub-500 for the last month and a half of the season.

CONTEXT!!! WE NEED CONTEXT!!!

CP3 and Blake Griffin were BOTH MVP candidates this year, and KD helped lift the Thunder past them. That was AMAZING.


Take Bosh out of the picture for James and let's see how well the Heat do.

ewing
05-22-2014, 08:34 AM
I get the feeling if the heat and spurs meet in the finals, Lebrons numbers won't look so good either.

For the other series, okc played stiff competition. He's still the reason they are in the wcf

this.

mightybosstone
05-22-2014, 08:39 AM
? Do you comprehend what wS/48- .171 is? Or is that not something that you fully understand? Or the fact that he almost has a 1:1 assist to turnover ratio?

Let alone his nonexistent defense so far this postseason? My goodness.. First Kobe slurping and now kd? You do realize that he's the biggest threat to your lakers right? Lol!!

I can just imagine you a few years later hating on Durant. Typical.

Are you aware that .171 WS/48 is actually really, really good? Or that a 23.2 PER in the postseason would rank as the 14th greatest postseason PER in the history of the NBA? This thread is just blatantly incompetent. I'm guessing you didn't know that Durant is 8th in career postseason PER and 13th in career postseason WS/48. The man has been as dominant in the postseason as any player not named Lebron James or Dirk Nowitzki over the last four or five years.

You should seriously just stop before this gets any worse.

mdm692
05-22-2014, 08:56 AM
Are you aware that .171 WS/48 is actually really, really good? Or that a 23.2 PER in the postseason would rank as the 14th greatest postseason PER in the history of the NBA? This thread is just blatantly incompetent. I'm guessing you didn't know that Durant is 8th in career postseason PER and 13th in career postseason WS/48. The man has been as dominant in the postseason as any player not named Lebron James or Dirk Nowitzki over the last four or five years.

You should seriously just stop before this gets any worse.

This. /Thread.

zn23
05-22-2014, 08:59 AM
He hasn't played up to his MVP standards thus far. He's still putting up some great numbers, but he's not playing to the level he was in the regular season.

therealwd27
05-22-2014, 10:00 AM
So.. Lebron who is averaging 29/7/5 on 56%, with PER of 31.3 and ws/48 of .294 is getting his playoff games closed out for him? Gotcha.
Makes sense.

Can't argue stats with Kobe fans bro. Like running your head into a wall.

2-ONE-5
05-22-2014, 10:34 AM
? What the hell does this have to do with anything?

This is about durant's playoff production.
The thunder are a solid team, and MJ still dominated and didn't put up pathetic stats that kd is doing at the moment..

since when is 31 and 10 pathetic stats? espically out west

2-ONE-5
05-22-2014, 10:37 AM
So.. Lebron who is averaging 29/7/5 on 56%, with PER of 31.3 and ws/48 of .294 is getting his playoff games closed out for him? Gotcha.
Makes sense.

playing against the bobcats and nets lol while kd has faced the grizz and clips and now the spurs

archdevil84
05-22-2014, 11:02 AM
and ofcourse his stats are gonna look les good in the postseason. regular season is much different then postseason where there are game plans and harder D and all. in the regular season durant can go off against any weaker team but its not like he could avg 50 points against the spurs or something. thats normal. lebron couldnt have done that either

Im_in_Mia_bish
05-22-2014, 12:40 PM
@Frazier -- Without Ibaka and w/ Scott Brooks as coach they're "a fantastic supporting cast"? That's a pretty **** supporting cast to start Thabo (who has fallen off to the point where he can't even hit open 3's), Collison (5 points in 2 games?) and Kendrick Perkins (enough said) if you ask me. And the Spurs bench is easily better than OKC so they don't make up any ground there. Despite Westbrook, it's really not better than what we saw from Bron in Cleveland when one of those two are out. Maybe next season if Adams really comes into form and they can toss Perkins aside they will get back to their elite ways (assuming they don't lose one of their big 3 midway through the playoffs again).

Bron was 22, in his 4th year and well developed as a capable 30/7/7 guy at that point btw. I can't offer him too much of a pass other than knowing just how well SAS can gameplan against one dimensional offenses (KD fared better than Lebron did in a similar situation against the Heat in the Finals). But yes, as I said Lebron is better than KD due to being more well rounded (although KD has proven throughout the year that he is very, very well rounded himself despite these games).

As for OKC needing Durant to just go ham scoring wise to win these games? Not going to cut it. Even if he got into "the zone" and was able to drop 40 on 65% against that suffocating D, they'd still have lost the game tonight by double digits. He needs his teammates to rally around him and actually contribute; and he needs a coach that can best put them in a situation to do just that. But, that simply isn't going to happen for 4 games.

Like I called once Ibaka went down, Spurs in 5.

That's cute and all, but there's a reason why I posted Durants full post season stats..
I'm talking about his overall production.. Scoring is this still there, however, his playmaking abilities, along with his turnover rate is extremely high.. And his defense is something left to be desired.. Not saying he is out of the race.. Just saying that he isn't playing his usual MVP level. That being said, series is still not over, and I do hope that Durant wills the thunder to the finals.

The purpose of this thread was to see if people were going to blame the okc role players/coach and give Durant a pass again.

Not saying it's all on Durant because that's just laker fan logic.. But Durant is part of the problem.

Im_in_Mia_bish
05-22-2014, 12:42 PM
since when is 31 and 10 pathetic stats? espically out west

Do you know what defense is? Can you comprehend what the last 3 advanced stats mean?

31 ppg on 23 FGA is actually quite possible.

Im_in_Mia_bish
05-22-2014, 12:46 PM
Does the OP realize he just posted AMAZING stats and then they were bad?

WTF?

Those are INCREDIBLE stats.


And let's be honest. LBJ is playing with a health Wade (>Westy) and a healthy Bosh (>Ibaka) and he's played NOTHING but SUB-500 teams (or close to it) going into the conference finals and is now playing a team that was sub-500 for the last month and a half of the season.

CONTEXT!!! WE NEED CONTEXT!!!

CP3 and Blake Griffin were BOTH MVP candidates this year, and KD helped lift the Thunder past them. That was AMAZING.


Take Bosh out of the picture for James and let's see how well the Heat do.

Again.. As someone pointed out in another thread.. Your signature tells us all there is to know.

I'm sorry but since when were the grizzlies an offensive juggernaut of a team? This isn't about kd's offensive production, my silly friend. This is about his defense and overall game.

It's good when you can score 31 on 23 shots, but when you average almost the same assists as turnovers, your teams in the whole, and your defense has been missing throughout the playoffs.. Well you would have to be a true homer to think Durant deserves no blame if the thunder go down.

mightybosstone
05-22-2014, 12:55 PM
Do you know what defense is? Can you comprehend what the last 3 advanced stats mean?

31 ppg on 23 FGA is actually quite possible.

:laugh: Did you even see my post? Those advanced stats you posted are incredible postseason numbers. A 23.2 PER would be the 14th highest career postseason PER of all time and a .171 WS/48 would be the 38th highest career postseason WS/48 of all time. In fact, those numbers are essentially what Dwyane Wade has averaged in his career (actually slightly better).

So before you go around ripping other people for not comprehending advanced statistics, perhaps you should consider whether you know what the hell you're talking about to begin with.

koreancabbage
05-22-2014, 12:56 PM
Does the OP realize he just posted AMAZING stats and then they were bad?

WTF?

Those are INCREDIBLE stats.


And let's be honest. LBJ is playing with a health Wade (>Westy) and a healthy Bosh (>Ibaka) and he's played NOTHING but SUB-500 teams (or close to it) going into the conference finals and is now playing a team that was sub-500 for the last month and a half of the season.

CONTEXT!!! WE NEED CONTEXT!!!

CP3 and Blake Griffin were BOTH MVP candidates this year, and KD helped lift the Thunder past them. That was AMAZING.


Take Bosh out of the picture for James and let's see how well the Heat do.

the context is that the Spurs are on another tier in the Western Conference. You have the Western Conference and then you have the Spurs.

Meh, if you take out Bosh, you just replace him with another 3 point shooter on the floor. I would think at this point in time, the Bosh factor isn't that appeasing in any argument lol

DemarDerozan
05-22-2014, 12:57 PM
:laugh::laugh: go back to your hole troll.

Minimal
05-22-2014, 01:00 PM
lol at LeBron haters trying to praise Durant for his post season.
Just so you can understand Durant plays 43.3 minutes per game, his per 36 stats are garbage.
25/6.6/4.3 .45 FG% 22.6 PER .151 WS/48 and awful defense

mightybosstone
05-22-2014, 01:06 PM
lol at LeBron haters trying to praise Durant for his post season.
Just so you can understand Durant plays 43.3 minutes per game, his per 36 stats are garbage.
25/6.6/4.3 .45 FG% 22.6 PER .151 WS/48 and awful defense

Those are not garbage stats in any way, shape or form. If those are garbage stats, then almost every other team in the league would love to have a garbage player like that, because they don't have anyone capable of producing them.

I'm not a Durant lover or hater, and I've been as supporting of Lebron as anyone on this site. Heat fans seriously need to get over themselves. Durant has not been as good as Lebron in the postseason. This is not surprising, because I don't think he is as good as Lebron and have never thought that despite him having a better regular season. But ripping a guy for not putting up numbers as strong as the best player in the world is a really ****ing weak argument.

Quit ripping on Durant for playing slightly worse in the postseason than he did during the regular season (which almost every player in NBA history has done) and focus on the series your team is actually playing for a change.

koreancabbage
05-22-2014, 01:16 PM
Those are not garbage stats in any way, shape or form. If those are garbage stats, then almost every other team in the league would love to have a garbage player like that, because they don't have anyone capable of producing them.

I'm not a Durant lover or hater, and I've been as supporting of Lebron as anyone on this site. Heat fans seriously need to get over themselves. Durant has not been as good as Lebron in the postseason. This is not surprising, because I don't think he is as good as Lebron and have never thought that despite him having a better regular season. But ripping a guy for not putting up numbers as strong as the best player in the world is a really ****ing weak argument.

Quit ripping on Durant for playing slightly worse in the postseason than he did during the regular season (which almost every player in NBA history has done) and focus on the series your team is actually playing for a change.

well said. Lebron homers are becoming like Kobe homers in a glance - rather annoying - if you keep it up.

I obviously have advocated for Lebron here on this site but Durant is another great talent in his own right. We get it that Lebron has gotten a lot of flak (in the past and present) because he isn't your prototypical superstar player (high volume shooter/scorer)

Durant is getting seasoned up right and he needs to decide if he is going to start taking history in his own hands or let someone like Westbrook do it for him (who's been forcing the issue at times when Durant goes missing during games)

koreancabbage
05-22-2014, 01:21 PM
adding to the fire: Westbrook was giving Durant a piece of his mind last night during the game. and Durant just walks to the bench, saying nothing.

Durant really really needs to be more vocal and show up for 48 minutes.

The same had been said for James as well. Its a learning process. and now look at James with two rings on back to back years and maybe 3 in a row. Durant has all the pieces on the current team to win now - just needs to mature as well as Westbrook and Ibaka.

2-ONE-5
05-22-2014, 01:21 PM
i dont think these heat trolls realize how much tougher getting through the west is compared to the east. i still beleive the thunder, Spurs, and Grizz all would beat Miami

Minimal
05-22-2014, 01:31 PM
Those are not garbage stats in any way, shape or form. If those are garbage stats, then almost every other team in the league would love to have a garbage player like that, because they don't have anyone capable of producing them.

I'm not a Durant lover or hater, and I've been as supporting of Lebron as anyone on this site. Heat fans seriously need to get over themselves. Durant has not been as good as Lebron in the postseason. This is not surprising, because I don't think he is as good as Lebron and have never thought that despite him having a better regular season. But ripping a guy for not putting up numbers as strong as the best player in the world is a really ****ing weak argument.

Quit ripping on Durant for playing slightly worse in the postseason than he did during the regular season (which almost every player in NBA history has done) and focus on the series your team is actually playing for a change.
I just responded to those stupid haters who mentioned Durant having good stats with 31/10/4 in these playoffs.
By garbage, I meant that his stats are garbage compared to what he is capable in the regular season.
Durant is not playing sligthly worse this post season, thats where you are wrong, he is playing a lot worse, he supposed to be the leader of the team, but Westbrook is outplaying him in the playoffs. Durant should get all the criticism, because he deserves, heck they were almost eliminated against Memphis, because of Durants awful play, I think people keep forgetting that.

Minimal
05-22-2014, 01:37 PM
i dont think these heat trolls realize how much tougher getting through the west is compared to the east. i still beleive the thunder, Spurs, and Grizz all would beat Miami
I so so hope Thunder win against Spurs, so we can sweep them in the finals, they are an awful TEAM, against good defenses they have zero chance, its so easy to alter that team, to play the way you want. There are so many teams like that in the West, heck the only 2 that arent are Grizzlies and Spurs, no wonder Heat were always succesful against the West.

Shkelqim
05-22-2014, 01:39 PM
LeBron is still the best player. And none of those teams can Beat the Heat, be an honest fan right now. LeBron can take over any game in different ways. He's not the best shooter, but he can dish out assists, rebound, defend, steal. Lets be realistic also more mature than Durant emotionally, i watched Durant in college and follow him with the Thunder, hes a beast, knows alot about the game. But, he hides sometimes. He needs to become ignorant and just demand the game, dont trust westbrook too much, utilize him but still one player can control a basketball game. He'll learn that quickly.

HeatFan
05-22-2014, 01:39 PM
I am a Heat Fan and defend Lebron but really, Durant has been doing his part, as has Westbrook, at least in game 1, didn't see game 2. However, think about it. In game one no matter who shot the ball other than Durant and Westbrook you just knew the ball wasn't going in (other than a few Fischer 3s early in the game). The two stars have no support at all and no one steps up. Spurs on the other hand have about 50 players (or it seems like they do) who can all step in and make plays, at least open shots. Because of this, Durant and Westbrook both have to push and try to create even when the whole defense is focused on them two. This will and probably always does mean you may make poor decisions and maybe turn the ball over. I think Durant's production is not the story here. It is really how impressive San Antonio has been. They ran over a really good Portland Team and are dominating a shorthanded Oklahoma team that wasn't even deep to begin with before the Ibaka injury. At this point, I prefer Durant taking a bad shot than Sefalosha taking an open one.

Crackadalic
05-22-2014, 01:39 PM
lol at LeBron haters trying to praise Durant for his post season.
Just so you can understand Durant plays 43.3 minutes per game, his per 36 stats are garbage.
25/6.6/4.3 .45 FG% 22.6 PER .151 WS/48 and awful defense

Man I wish every team had a player who can put up those garbage stats!!!

L8kers4life
05-22-2014, 01:43 PM
Or his ws/48 could be at .290, and he could learn to stop turning the ball over.

Leave it to a lakers fan to support someone who is bricking nonstop.

Here we go, another idiot bringing up Lakers when it has nothing to do with Them. Just because he is a Lakers fan, doesnt mean thats why he said what he did. How old are you? F*&*in children in here.

L8kers4life
05-22-2014, 01:48 PM
God can anyone mention Lebron with out bringing up Kobe?

mightybosstone
05-22-2014, 01:51 PM
I just responded to those stupid haters who mentioned Durant having good stats with 31/10/4 in these playoffs.By garbage, I meant that his stats are garbage compared to what he is capable in the regular season. Durant is not playing sligthly worse this post season, thats where you are wrong, he is playing a lot worse, he supposed to be the leader of the team, but Westbrook is outplaying him in the playoffs. Durant should get all the criticism, because he deserves, heck they were almost eliminated against Memphis, because of Durants awful play, I think people keep forgetting that.

Durant's postseason numbers have not been remotely what they've been in his last three postseasons, I'll give you that, but I don't think you can compare regular season to postseason as an apple to apples comparison. As for Westbrook "outplaying" Durant, that's certainly debatable. Westbrook is playing up to his standards while Durant isn't playing up to his, but Durant has still been the superior statistical player. I do think Westbrook has stepped up a little more late in games when it's mattered, but it's not like that's mattered much in this San Antonio series.

If the Thunder lose this series, there will be plenty of blame to go around. I blame Durant for not playing up to his potential. I blame Westbrook for playing such inefficient offensive basketball. I blame injuries for taking Ibaka out of a series where he was desperately needed. I blame Scotty Brooks for his mediocre coaching and Sam Presti for trading Harden and not getting nearly enough in return for him. And I think a little of the blame has to go to the supporting cast for not stepping up and playing better with Ibaka out of the lineup.

There's plenty of the blame to go around, and most of it has nothing to do with Kevin Durant. Does that mean he deserves a pass? Hell no. But he also doesn't deserve the intense criticism he's getting right now on PSD.

sep11ie
05-22-2014, 02:05 PM
Damn i guess people are still salty that lebron is still the best player in the league.

Are you gonna be when he leaves after this year?

Jamiecballer
05-22-2014, 02:21 PM
I'm on the fence here. His numbers are pretty darn good but he's definitely playing well below his capabilities.

JLynn943
05-22-2014, 02:31 PM
I mean, he's not playing as well as he can, but it's not like he's playing poorly.

2-ONE-5
05-22-2014, 02:59 PM
I am a Heat Fan and defend Lebron but really, Durant has been doing his part, as has Westbrook, at least in game 1, didn't see game 2. However, think about it. In game one no matter who shot the ball other than Durant and Westbrook you just knew the ball wasn't going in (other than a few Fischer 3s early in the game). The two stars have no support at all and no one steps up. Spurs on the other hand have about 50 players (or it seems like they do) who can all step in and make plays, at least open shots. Because of this, Durant and Westbrook both have to push and try to create even when the whole defense is focused on them two. This will and probably always does mean you may make poor decisions and maybe turn the ball over. I think Durant's production is not the story here. It is really how impressive San Antonio has been. They ran over a really good Portland Team and are dominating a shorthanded Oklahoma team that wasn't even deep to begin with before the Ibaka injury. At this point, I prefer Durant taking a bad shot than Sefalosha taking an open one.

this a million percent. OP is insulting the Spurs by not giving them any credit whatsover.

DODGERS&LAKERS
05-22-2014, 03:02 PM
Are we just going to ignore a competition?

Hawkeye15
05-22-2014, 03:21 PM
Are we just going to ignore a competition?

when you are a player of Durant's capabilities, it still shouldn't drop by what it has, production wise.

Pull up Jordan, or LeBron against great teams. They are still destroying it stat wise.

Tony_Starks
05-22-2014, 03:43 PM
Are we just going to ignore a competition?

Apparently so. Not like he had to face 3 of the best teams in the league or anything.

If KD had to go through that soft competition in the east he'd probably be putting up 40 a night.

But no I guess we have to put up with his "garbage" 31 10 and 4. Lol

tredigs
05-22-2014, 03:45 PM
You sure about that Hawk?

Lebron's #'s in the Finals versus the Spurs = 23.5/9/7 +1.8 stl / 0.7 blk & 3.7 TO's on 43/28/74 = 49% TS.
Average age = 25. W/L = 4-7

Durant's #'s in the WCF's versus the Spurs = 27/7/4.5 +1.2 stl / 1.1 blk & 2.8 TO's on 50/36/88 = 63% TS.
Average age = 24. W/L = 4-4

SlimKid
05-22-2014, 03:59 PM
Didn't you get the memo? You are not allowed to criticize KD.

But seriously, you can't say his stats have been garbage, that's the epitome of trolling.

Shammyguy3
05-22-2014, 05:12 PM
Can we change this thread to "Mr. OP's Misguided Viewpoint" please? It would be more accurate

koreancabbage
05-22-2014, 06:43 PM
You sure about that Hawk?

Lebron's #'s in the Finals versus the Spurs = 23.5/9/7 +1.8 stl / 0.7 blk & 3.7 TO's on 43/28/74 = 49% TS.
Average age = 25. W/L = 4-7

Durant's #'s in the WCF's versus the Spurs = 27/7/4.5 +1.2 stl / 1.1 blk & 2.8 TO's on 50/36/88 = 63% TS.
Average age = 24. W/L = 4-4

great team(s) is what he said. just not the Spurs

tredigs
05-22-2014, 06:52 PM
It's by far the most applicable comparison of great team(s) they've each faced in high pressure playoff situations, and it completely counters what he contended. I'd say it's worth a mention.

FlashBolt
05-22-2014, 07:08 PM
Durant is playing good but not great. It's not entirely his fault but he needs to step it up like all greats do. No more of this "next year, they will learn from this." No, it's time to win.

FlashBolt
05-22-2014, 07:09 PM
You sure about that Hawk?

Lebron's #'s in the Finals versus the Spurs = 23.5/9/7 +1.8 stl / 0.7 blk & 3.7 TO's on 43/28/74 = 49% TS.
Average age = 25. W/L = 4-7

Durant's #'s in the WCF's versus the Spurs = 27/7/4.5 +1.2 stl / 1.1 blk & 2.8 TO's on 50/36/88 = 63% TS.
Average age = 24. W/L = 4-4

Can you really include Spurs vs Cavs? Or should I say, James vs Spurs? KD is a great player but he's had more help than LeBron ever had in Cavs.

tredigs
05-22-2014, 07:21 PM
Yes, I would compare a team where KD has been double/triple teamed on a significant amount of shooting opportunities and includes Thabo Sefolosha, Nick Collison and Kendrick Perkins in their starting lineup against any Finals team ever.

HYFR
05-22-2014, 07:28 PM
You sure about that Hawk?

Lebron's #'s in the Finals versus the Spurs = 23.5/9/7 +1.8 stl / 0.7 blk & 3.7 TO's on 43/28/74 = 49% TS.
Average age = 25. W/L = 4-7

Durant's #'s in the WCF's versus the Spurs = 27/7/4.5 +1.2 stl / 1.1 blk & 2.8 TO's on 50/36/88 = 63% TS.
Average age = 24. W/L = 4-4

LeBron never had a player of Westbrook's caliber. Not even a fair argument.

Is this the ****ing twilight zone? So we are gonna act like wade is trash? Smh

JLynn943
05-22-2014, 07:53 PM
Is this the ****ing twilight zone? So we are gonna act like wade is trash? Smh

We're going to act like Wade was on the Cavs with LeBron? Maybe this really is the twilight zone.

Hawkeye15
05-22-2014, 09:51 PM
You sure about that Hawk?

Lebron's #'s in the Finals versus the Spurs = 23.5/9/7 +1.8 stl / 0.7 blk & 3.7 TO's on 43/28/74 = 49% TS.
Average age = 25. W/L = 4-7

Durant's #'s in the WCF's versus the Spurs = 27/7/4.5 +1.2 stl / 1.1 blk & 2.8 TO's on 50/36/88 = 63% TS.
Average age = 24. W/L = 4-4

wait, you are throwing in 22 year old LeBron's finals, when he was an unrefined kid, playing with Big Z, Larry Hughes, and Drew Gooden as his best players, compared to a 25 year old Durant, who is having his worst playoffs since 2011, and who is a refined player in his prime, with a far better roster?

You know LeBron had no business being in the finals that year with that team.

And I might add that Duncan/Manu/Parker were 7 years younger. Ie, BETTER as a trio in a landslide.

Hawkeye15
05-22-2014, 09:55 PM
Is this the ****ing twilight zone? So we are gonna act like wade is trash? Smh

he was by his standards last season in the playoffs. Miami LeBron finally has help. The result? 2 championship in 3 years....

HYFR
05-22-2014, 09:57 PM
Is this the ****ing twilight zone? So we are gonna act like wade is trash? Smh

We're going to act like Wade was on the Cavs with LeBron? Maybe this really is the twilight zone.

Was referring to the post where he mentioned lebron numbers vs the spurs in 10-11..

Crackadalic
05-22-2014, 10:03 PM
You sure about that Hawk?

Lebron's #'s in the Finals versus the Spurs = 23.5/9/7 +1.8 stl / 0.7 blk & 3.7 TO's on 43/28/74 = 49% TS.
Average age = 25. W/L = 4-7

Durant's #'s in the WCF's versus the Spurs = 27/7/4.5 +1.2 stl / 1.1 blk & 2.8 TO's on 50/36/88 = 63% TS.
Average age = 24. W/L = 4-4

That 07 spurs team would manhandle that current spurs. They were that great defensively

ramsizzle
05-22-2014, 10:04 PM
wait, you are throwing in 22 year old LeBron's finals, when he was an unrefined kid, playing with Big Z, Larry Hughes, and Drew Gooden as his best players, compared to a 25 year old Durant, who is having his worst playoffs since 2011, and who is a refined player in his prime, with a far better roster?

You know LeBron had no business being in the finals that year with that team.

And I might add that Duncan/Manu/Parker were 7 years younger. Ie, BETTER as a trio in a landslide.

So just like a post ago you said competition doesnt matter, that superstars should dominate. then when its lebron yoour tune changes completely..... :rolleyes:

its sad and hilarious.

Hawkeye15
05-22-2014, 10:08 PM
So just like a post ago you said competition doesnt matter, that superstars should dominate. then when its lebron yoour tune changes completely..... :rolleyes:

its sad and hilarious.

competition matters to some degree, but to act like Durant isn't struggling against a team that LeBron played much better against 11 months ago is ridiculous.

Durant is still not at LeBron's level, despite so many claiming he is.

DODGERS&LAKERS
05-22-2014, 10:56 PM
competition matters to some degree, but to act like Durant isn't struggling against a team that LeBron played much better against 11 months ago is ridiculous.

Durant is still not at LeBron's level, despite so many claiming he is.

Last year vs the Spurs Lebron had a true shooting% of 52.9 while turning it over 3 times a game. His shooting numbers were 44/35/79.
He did average 25/10.9/7 but his first three games were subpar. He turned it around later in the series. Durant has played two games vs the Spurs, he still has time to fix things.

Also, competition is everything. It is more important that what teammates you have. If the Pacers were in the west, they would have been out in the first round. Miami would not have been able to basically give Wade the entire year off to save him for the playoffs and he would not be as good as he has been in the playoffs. There is a reason why every time someone says "player x dragged his weak teammates to the finals" its always coming out of the east the past 15 years. Whether it be Miller, Kidd, Iverson, Lebron, or Dwight. Is it that these guys are superhuman? Or is it that nobody takes into account that they beat other teams without a lot of talent.

Due to there not being a lot of other talent on the teams, great players don't have to exert themselves defensively via one on one defense or team defense due to their not being real threats on the other side of the court. This keeps certain players legs fresh to be able to put up good offensive numbers.

But for any great player playing against other great players, that player is forced to try to either guard another offensive stud, or be moving around constantly for team defense. There are no plays off and that is mentally and physically exhausting. That takes away from your offensive game.

therealwd27
05-22-2014, 11:25 PM
Last year vs the Spurs Lebron had a true shooting% of 52.9 while turning it over 3 times a game. His shooting numbers were 44/35/79.
He did average 25/10.9/7 but his first three games were subpar. He turned it around later in the series. Durant has played two games vs the Spurs, he still has time to fix things.

Also, competition is everything. It is more important that what teammates you have. If the Pacers were in the west, they would have been out in the first round. Miami would not have been able to basically give Wade the entire year off to save him for the playoffs and he would not be as good as he has been in the playoffs. There is a reason why every time someone says "player x dragged his weak teammates to the finals" its always coming out of the east the past 15 years. Whether it be Miller, Kidd, Iverson, Lebron, or Dwight. Is it that these guys are superhuman? Or is it that nobody takes into account that they beat other teams without a lot of talent.

Due to their not being a lot of other talent on the teams, great players don't have to exert themselves defensively via one on one defense or team defense due to their not being real threats on the other side of the court. This keeps certain players legs fresh to be able to put up good offensive numbers.

But for any great player playing against other great players, that player is forced to try to either guard another offensive stud, or be moving around constantly for team defense. There are no plays off and that is mentally and physically exhausting. That takes away from your offensive game.

Just curious...whats Kobes finals FG% in each finals he has played in i'll wait.

I do not get why people claim Kobe is so much better than LeBron? Is it the number of rings? If you give LeBron Shaq in his prime I really cant imagine the amount of rings they would've won.

DODGERS&LAKERS
05-23-2014, 12:37 AM
Just curious...whats Kobes finals FG% in each finals he has played in i'll wait.

Google is an amazing tool. Look it up. But how bout I do this for you. Since TS% is a better tool than fg% Ill provide this for you. Kobe's TS % in his 7 finals appearances is an abysmal 50.7. That is -3.4% points lower than his normal playoff ts% of 54.1.

Lebrons TS% for his 4 finals apperances is an abysmal 51.4. That 6% lower than his normal ts% of 57.4.

Kobe turns the ball over 11.62% of the time in the finals. Up .62% from his playoff average of 11.62
Lebron turns the ball over 15.1% of the time in the finals. Up 2.8% from his playoff average of 12.3

Lebron's numbers take a far bigger hit than Kobe's do when they face the other conference. Kobe pretty much plays the same while Lebrons numbers drop to where Kobe has been for his entire career.


I do not get why people claim Kobe is so much better than LeBron? Is it the number of rings? If you give LeBron Shaq in his prime I really cant imagine the amount of rings they would've won.

When did I mention Kobe in my post? You are the one who brought him up. A lot of you see any post from a Laker fan and immediately try to equate it to some type of hidden agenda to prop up Kobe. I was only talking about Lebron and Durant for this year. But since you brought it up....

Kobe has played 30 games vs the other best team the past decade and a half in the playoffs.
He put up 28.2 pts, 6 rebounds, 5 assist on 47%/35%/73% with 2.5 turnovers per game. 22 of those games were played by Kobe as a 20, 21 and 22 year old. Not even close to his prime yet. These games were also played against the Spurs with a prime Duncan and Robinson, as well as a prime Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker. Not the older version that Lebron played last year.

Lebron is averaging 24.1pts, 9.5 rebounds, 6.9 assist on 41%/29%/75% with 3.7 turnovers per game. 4 of those games had Lebron as a 22 year old.

I would like to ask a Spurs fan who remembers Kobe when he was young. Who would they rather play? Kobe or Lebron. Seems Kobe gave them a tougher time.

FlashBolt
05-23-2014, 01:34 AM
Google is an amazing tool. Look it up. But how bout I do this for you. Since TS% is a better tool than fg% Ill provide this for you. Kobe's TS % in his 7 finals appearances is an abysmal 50.7. That is -3.4% points lower than his normal playoff ts% of 54.1.

Lebrons TS% for his 4 finals apperances is an abysmal 51.4. That 6% lower than his normal ts% of 57.4.

Kobe turns the ball over 11.62% of the time in the finals. Up .62% from his playoff average of 11.62
Lebron turns the ball over 15.1% of the time in the finals. Up 2.8% from his playoff average of 12.3

Lebron's numbers take a far bigger hit than Kobe's do when they face the other conference. Kobe pretty much plays the same while Lebrons numbers drop to where Kobe has been for his entire career.



When did I mention Kobe in my post? You are the one who brought him up. A lot of you see any post from a Laker fan and immediately try to equate it to some type of hidden agenda to prop up Kobe. I was only talking about Lebron and Durant for this year. But since you brought it up....

Kobe has played 30 games vs the other best team the past decade and a half in the playoffs.
He put up 28.2 pts, 6 rebounds, 5 assist on 47%/35%/73% with 2.5 turnovers per game. 22 of those games were played by Kobe as a 20, 21 and 22 year old. Not even close to his prime yet. These games were also played against the Spurs with a prime Duncan and Robinson, as well as a prime Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker. Not the older version that Lebron played last year.

Lebron is averaging 24.1pts, 9.5 rebounds, 6.9 assist on 41%/29%/75% with 3.7 turnovers per game. 4 of those games had Lebron as a 22 year old.

I would like to ask a Spurs fan who remembers Kobe when he was young. Who would they rather play? Kobe or Lebron. Seems Kobe gave them a tougher time.

http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/39/49/3949ae02613b9ecfa9b85aa92cc9864c.png

Sactown
05-23-2014, 02:03 AM
Reality is the Thunder are poorly coached and there offense is KD and Weary taking turns running Iso or single PnR.... The Spurs load up on these plays and the two aren't able to facilitate or find the open man and nobody is moving and creating passing lanes...

Reality is also Durant isn't going to kill the Spurs facilitating an offense and the Spurs coaching staff knows this so theyre going to load up on him and change his game.. OKC needs to run him off the ball and get him in his spots . Setting up curls off picks where he can catch and shoot or screens back door..

Next LeBron is a different animal.. he can destroy a team as a facilitator and defender and rebounder.. he can dominate posting only 18 points while Durant can't.. his ability to create for others doesn't allow a team to load up on him.. his ability to post makes it harder to double , and he doesn't get everything from an I Do.. SPO does a good job of getting him in his spots..

Conclusion:
Durants limitations on offense allow SAS to load up and force jumpers knowing he's going to ISO and not facilitate

LeBrons versatility on both ends forces teams to play honest on shooters , helping clear driving lanes and scoring opportunities for himself and teammates . Post game allows for easy baskets and kick out on double teams

tredigs
05-23-2014, 03:26 AM
Comparing this OKC team to Miami's finals team is far more ridiculous than this to Lebron's Finals Cavs team. Both in coaching and in supplemental offensive talent. The Spurs defense on Lebron was, "whatever, shoot. Here's 7 feet". On KD it is double to triple teams from 24 feet in. They have zero care if Collison, Sefolosha or Perkins get the rock, and Westbrook from 3 is not a shot they mind giving up either. It creates a massively high pressure defense on Durant.

Should he be playing better? Yes, I'd expect him to. But to brush off young Lebron (a 4 year vet who had put up 28/7/7 for years and was arguably the games best player mind you) versus the Spurs in one breath (despite Durant crushing them as a 23 year old himself in the WCF's... shooting like 66% TS on 30 a game in a backdoor sweep) then directly comparing this pathetically run and painfully offensively inept OKC team to Miami's is actual reaching serious homer status. I expect better... from all parties.

mngopher35
05-23-2014, 03:58 AM
Aren't you the one who started the comparison when none really fit? A comparison of a 22 year Lebron with no help doesn't compare to either run (it took a spectacular series before to get there). A 23 year old Durant with multiple options on O in wcf against a Spurs team that hadn't quite gotten to this level defensively is probably the closest match up to Heat vs. Spurs we can get. Either way I think the situations are different all around and am not sure it matters.

I think people are more disappointed with the entire run for KD so far, not just this series. It just hasn't been one of his better post-seasons overall. You are the one who brought it to them both vs. the Spurs even though the comparisons are certainly different for multiple reasons. It is the very bad game 4 vs. Memphis where it was up to reggie jackson to get 30+ to win and keep them in the series. Then the next series he plays pretty well but Westbrook seems to be just as if not more important, now this vs. Spurs. It isn't bad by any means as there have been very good games in there too. It seems as though now with Durant getting an MVP people are going to hold him to the "you must win and play amazing" standard.

Every player has post-season failures and if this is the worst of it for Durant moving forward that's not bad at all. The series isn't even over yet though and he could come out swinging (I think he will). It is probably unfair to expect them to win the series at this point with no Ibaka, but hopefully he can play good enough to keep some of these games competitive.

FlashBolt
05-23-2014, 04:12 AM
Comparing this OKC team to Miami's finals team is far more ridiculous than this to Lebron's Finals Cavs team. Both in coaching and in supplemental offensive talent. The Spurs defense on Lebron was, "whatever, shoot. Here's 7 feet". On KD it is double to triple teams from 24 feet in. They have zero care if Collison, Sefolosha or Perkins get the rock, and Westbrook from 3 is not a shot they mind giving up either. It creates a massively high pressure defense on Durant.

Should he be playing better? Yes, I'd expect him to. But to brush off young Lebron (a 4 year vet who had put up 28/7/7 for years and was arguably the games best player mind you) versus the Spurs in one breath (despite Durant crushing them as a 23 year old himself in the WCF's... shooting like 66% TS on 30 a game in a backdoor sweep) then directly comparing this pathetically run and painfully offensively inept OKC team to Miami's is actual reaching serious homer status. I expect better... from all parties.

Stop it. You're smart enough to know that it's not even fair to compare their situations. Durant is playing bad. Nevermind this Spurs team, what about against Memphis? Questionable calls and Zach getting suspended might've been the end for OKC. If that wasn't bad enough, PLENTY of questionable calls against LAC. To make things worse, Westbrook is arguably the best player for them this post season. They may have dared LeBron to shoot but Durant isn't making anything, either. The dude started out his early career with Harden, Westbrook, and Ibaka. That's a solid squad no matter how you put it.

SPURSFAN1
05-23-2014, 05:21 AM
Durant is getting more and more tired as the series goes along. The spurs are making him pay down low. He can't even make his free throws. hahahaah. That is a clear sign he was fatigued in the first quarter. Pop is resting his players and sending out fresh legs throughout the game. The spurs are going to run him out the floor. He will play better game 3 because of extended rest and might win that game. If not, I see the spurs taking the next 2 games.

FraziersKnicks
05-23-2014, 06:25 AM
Comparing this OKC team to Miami's finals team is far more ridiculous than this to Lebron's Finals Cavs team. Both in coaching and in supplemental offensive talent. The Spurs defense on Lebron was, "whatever, shoot. Here's 7 feet". On KD it is double to triple teams from 24 feet in. They have zero care if Collison, Sefolosha or Perkins get the rock, and Westbrook from 3 is not a shot they mind giving up either. It creates a massively high pressure defense on Durant.

Should he be playing better? Yes, I'd expect him to. But to brush off young Lebron (a 4 year vet who had put up 28/7/7 for years and was arguably the games best player mind you) versus the Spurs in one breath (despite Durant crushing them as a 23 year old himself in the WCF's... shooting like 66% TS on 30 a game in a backdoor sweep) then directly comparing this pathetically run and painfully offensively inept OKC team to Miami's is actual reaching serious homer status. I expect better... from all parties.

Wait wait wait, so you're not going to take into account that LeBron's teammates in that first finals were Sasha Pavlovic, Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Larry Hughes and KD's were Russell Westbrook, Serge Ibaka and James Harden? Are you really going to ignore that? You think the Spurs aren't scared of Collison, Perkins and Sefolosha but the Spurs were scared of Pavlovic, Big Z and Larry Hughes? Their defense was ENTIRELY focused on LeBron that series to the point if he had shot over 45% it would've been a miracle. That Spurs team was also at the height of it's power with a prime Duncan, prime TP and prime Manu all posting PER's above 20.

Basically there is no comparison to be made there and I would expect better from you Tre. Along with Hawk, ManRam and Chronz I see you as one of the more knowledgable posters on this site but I feel like you're love for KD is turning you against LeBron as you are constantly downplaying LBJ in an attempt to support KD. Don't let the hate blind you from enjoying one of the greats! Just as I'm trying not to do the same with KD.

JasonJohnHorn
05-23-2014, 06:27 AM
Again.. As someone pointed out in another thread.. Your signature tells us all there is to know.

I'm sorry but since when were the grizzlies an offensive juggernaut of a team? This isn't about kd's offensive production, my silly friend. This is about his defense and overall game.

It's good when you can score 31 on 23 shots, but when you average almost the same assists as turnovers, your teams in the whole, and your defense has been missing throughout the playoffs.. Well you would have to be a true homer to think Durant deserves no blame if the thunder go down.


His turnovers are up, which isn't good. I agree.

But you talk about his defense? Have the guys he's been guarding been going off on him? He limited Leonard to FOUR Points in one game and had him shooting 7/16 in another. What else is he supposed to do?


As to who to 'blame', that is always problematic in a team sport. A guy who causes 6 turnovers will blame the guy who missed the last-second shot that would have won the game, without realizing that his 6 turnovers put them in that position to start with.


This is a team sport, so obviously there are always things somebody could do to make things better, but if Durant only have 3 turnovers instead of 6 in game one, THEY STILL LOSE.

He only have 3 in game two (to 5 assists) and the got BLOWN OUT.

So your 'turnover' argument isn't doing any more than your defense argument.

Blaming Durant for the team losing is pointless. What are you saying? He should have held Leonard to 0 points instead 4?

He should have scored He should have scored 47 points instead of 28 in game one so they could have won? He shot over .500 that game.

He had a bad shooting night in game two. It happens. But even if he shot 100% from the floor, the Thunder STILL get blown out.


Duncan was 11/19 in game one and scored almost 30 points in less than 30 minutes. That is because Ibaka is not there. What is Durant supposed to do? Turn into a center and guard Duncan?

KD had a bad game in game 2. Players have bad games. As of right now, Durant is putting up great numbers (turnovers aside). Period. He and Westbrook are the reason the Thunder are in the conference finals and NOT the Clippers.

They have lost a key shooter and defender in Ibaka. The Spurs defense doesn't need to guard Collison the way they would Ibaka, so they can send more help to Durant.

The Spurs are one of the best defensive team in the league with perhaps the best defensive coach, and the Thunder have no depth. You do the math.

ewing
05-23-2014, 08:26 AM
god what a homer thread this turned into

D-Leethal
05-23-2014, 09:57 AM
Comparing this OKC team to Miami's finals team is far more ridiculous than this to Lebron's Finals Cavs team. Both in coaching and in supplemental offensive talent. The Spurs defense on Lebron was, "whatever, shoot. Here's 7 feet". On KD it is double to triple teams from 24 feet in. They have zero care if Collison, Sefolosha or Perkins get the rock, and Westbrook from 3 is not a shot they mind giving up either. It creates a massively high pressure defense on Durant.

Should he be playing better? Yes, I'd expect him to. But to brush off young Lebron (a 4 year vet who had put up 28/7/7 for years and was arguably the games best player mind you) versus the Spurs in one breath (despite Durant crushing them as a 23 year old himself in the WCF's... shooting like 66% TS on 30 a game in a backdoor sweep) then directly comparing this pathetically run and painfully offensively inept OKC team to Miami's is actual reaching serious homer status. I expect better... from all parties.

I'm in agreement with you here.

ManRam
05-23-2014, 10:53 AM
I kinda am avoiding this stuff as much as I can. On one hand, I'm not mad that the infallible white knight in shining armor is developing some chinks in his armor, because it does (for petty reasons) annoy me that he can do no wrong. On the other hand, like most criticism a lot of it is becoming sensationalized and unfair.

While I don't think the comparisons between LeBron 2007 and KD 2014 work at all, the in-game pressure on KD certainly is rivals the attention LeBron got in his Cavs days. As great as Russy is and mostly has been these playoffs, KD is the guy the Spurs are keying in on and making the effort to shut down (I disagree with the ridiculously oversimplified description of the Spurs' defense on LeBron that tre used, it was far more complex than "whatever, shoot" :laugh). They're packing the paint and KD is settling for jumpers. Often that's not a bad thing, but it has been. The fact that he is such a great shooter makes his struggles, whenever they may happen, all the more stunning. He ISN'T LeBron when it comes to that.

But the Thunder are KD and Russy and then not much else offensively. They start 3 offensive non-factors. They're just over-matched, or at least have been. For a team as deep, smart and experienced as the Spurs, they'll figure ways out to just dominate. Especially when the team's rim protector is out. They've just been overmatched. Some of it is an indictment on KD, but I don't think it's a ton. He's the best player, but he might not be on the best team. That happens.


The drop off from KD's regular season to KD's playoffs has been stark. He had a PER of 29.8 in the regular season vs. 22.6 in the playoffs. His WS/48 have almost been cut in half. His shooting efficiency has dropped a ton. Really, across the gamut of non-volume stats, it's been bad. No way around it. Even in LeBron's 2011, the drop off over the course of the playoffs was never this stark. So, for the sake of consistency, I won't get mad if people to pin a lot of blame on KD too. But I'm certainly not going to be campaigning for it

slashsnake
05-23-2014, 10:58 AM
I know Ibaka hurts to lose... A LOT. but not 52 points in two games a lot. I don't think his on the court impact is that big, and if it is, he's the best player on their team (he isn't).

I think OKC ran into a team that would be up 2-0 no matter what right now. They did it a couple years ago too though and look how that turned out (granted with a healthy team).

Im_in_Mia_bish
05-23-2014, 08:11 PM
Wtf are some of y'all babbling? One person is comparing lebron as a 22 year old and his production against the spurs, one person is talking about Kobe-lebron, one person is talking about kd's production for one series..?

All I said was that if lebron posted these stats, and his team was down 0-2, the media and fans would eat him alive.

For more info: check out 2009 LeBron.

For someone who many consider 1B to lebron's 1A, they sure are quick to defend him yet have a double standard when talking about lebron.

If you have unrealistic expectations for lebron, and in your mind kd is "1B" then you should have the same unrealistic expectations for kd as well.

Simple as that. Stick to the point and stop talking about nonsensical things like "Kobe vs bron" or some other ****

P&GRealist
05-23-2014, 08:21 PM
Wtf are some of y'all babbling? One person is comparing lebron as a 22 year old and his production against the spurs, one person is talking about Kobe-lebron, one person is talking about kd's production for one series..?

All I said was that if lebron posted these stats, and his team was down 0-2, the media and fans would eat him alive.

For more info: check out 2009 LeBron.

For someone who many consider 1B to lebron's 1A, they sure are quick to defend him yet have a double standard when talking about lebron.

If you have unrealistic expectations for lebron, and in your mind kd is "1B" then you should have the same unrealistic expectations for kd as well.

Simple as that. Stick to the point and stop talking about nonsensical things like "Kobe vs bron" or some other ****

:yawn:

Im_in_Mia_bish
05-23-2014, 08:29 PM
:yawn:

Cool story bro.

Tony_Starks
05-23-2014, 09:13 PM
"First they love you then they hate you then they love again....."

P&GRealist
05-23-2014, 09:15 PM
Cool story bro.

U really need to just concentrate on your boy LeBron and his Heatles. Concentrate on the series that you're involved in. Don't worry about the series of the other conference.

FraziersKnicks
05-24-2014, 08:44 AM
After ManRam mentioned KD's drop off in PER and WS/48, I did some research to see the differences in regular season PER and WS/48 and playoff PER and WS/48 for all the MVP winners in the last 34 years (dating back to 1980).

KD has the biggest PER drop off ever at -7.2 (29.8 to 22.6) and the second biggest drop off in WS/48 with -0.144 (.295 to .151) trailing Dirk's flop when the Mavs got eliminated by the Warriors in 2007 (much smaller sample size so tempted to say KD's is actually worse.)

KD's postseason dropoff is at a historical level for an MVP winner, yes 31/10/4 are good numbers but the advanced stats (although with their flaws, a much better measurement of a players impact as opposed to points, rebounds, assists) show how hollow they are.

koreancabbage
05-24-2014, 08:49 AM
U really need to just concentrate on your boy LeBron and his Heatles. Concentrate on the series that you're involved in. Don't worry about the series of the other conference.

lol what an internet response.

don't tell people what to do. :catfight:

NoahH
05-24-2014, 10:05 AM
His stats dont look that bad IMO? :shrug:

PurpleLynch
05-24-2014, 11:20 AM
SA's will to smash the league this year is beyond reach.
I don't now how will turn for SA,but the bball that they showed us this year was magnificent.
Durant isn't a Mr.Unreliable,he could play better,but Pop is preventing him to do it,with an amazing defense. Also,until Brooks sits on that bench,Okc probably will never win a championship(same problems of last year,he just doesn't run anything on offense.Okc,sometimes,looks like a pick up team to me. With that roster a good coach could build a dinasty imo).
Don't forget Ibaka's injury(a huge problem,on both offense and defense),that allows SA to attack easily the paint,while giving more pressure to KD on the other end.

b@llhog24
05-24-2014, 12:40 PM
He's played well but he's still hasn't played up to the standards of his most recent regular season campaign. To me he's been too inconsistent this year for my liking.

b@llhog24
05-24-2014, 12:44 PM
I kinda am avoiding this stuff as much as I can. On one hand, I'm not mad that the infallible white knight in shining armor is developing some chinks in his armor, because it does (for petty reasons) annoy me that he can do no wrong. On the other hand, like most criticism a lot of it is becoming sensationalized and unfair.

While I don't think the comparisons between LeBron 2007 and KD 2014 work at all, the in-game pressure on KD certainly is rivals the attention LeBron got in his Cavs days. As great as Russy is and mostly has been these playoffs, KD is the guy the Spurs are keying in on and making the effort to shut down (I disagree with the ridiculously oversimplified description of the Spurs' defense on LeBron that tre used, it was far more complex than "whatever, shoot" :laugh). They're packing the paint and KD is settling for jumpers. Often that's not a bad thing, but it has been. The fact that he is such a great shooter makes his struggles, whenever they may happen, all the more stunning. He ISN'T LeBron when it comes to that.

But the Thunder are KD and Russy and then not much else offensively. They start 3 offensive non-factors. They're just over-matched, or at least have been. For a team as deep, smart and experienced as the Spurs, they'll figure ways out to just dominate. Especially when the team's rim protector is out. They've just been overmatched. Some of it is an indictment on KD, but I don't think it's a ton. He's the best player, but he might not be on the best team. That happens.


The drop off from KD's regular season to KD's playoffs has been stark. He had a PER of 29.8 in the regular season vs. 22.6 in the playoffs. His WS/48 have almost been cut in half. His shooting efficiency has dropped a ton. Really, across the gamut of non-volume stats, it's been bad. No way around it. Even in LeBron's 2011, the drop off over the course of the playoffs was never this stark. So, for the sake of consistency, I won't get mad if people to pin a lot of blame on KD too. But I'm certainly not going to be campaigning for it

Wish I saw this earlier. But basically this.

mzgrizz
05-24-2014, 01:21 PM
Like I said before, KD needs a big Mr Reliable center, and then they might have a real run. But I prefer they keep their lineup just as it is.

P&GRealist
05-24-2014, 01:28 PM
lol what an internet response.

don't tell people what to do. :catfight:
What in God's green earth is an internet response?

You kids these days with your Lingos and labels and selfies and snapchats. SMDH.

FlashBolt
05-24-2014, 03:06 PM
What in God's green earth is an internet response?

You kids these days with your Lingos and labels and selfies and snapchats. SMDH.

You grandpas these days with your SMDH. SMH.

P&GRealist
05-24-2014, 03:36 PM
You grandpas these days with your SMDH. SMH.

I need to take a dump.....

I need to mow the lawn....


I need to take my exam...

But first....



LET ME TAKE A SELFIE!

Jamiecballer
05-24-2014, 05:39 PM
Tittays

Tony_Starks
05-25-2014, 11:25 PM
KD is so unreliable in pressure games. Lol.

Wait never mind, if he has a bad game in game 4 I'm sure the haters will be calling him unreliable again....

raiderfaninTX
05-25-2014, 11:57 PM
KD is so unreliable in pressure games. Lol.

Wait never mind, if he has a bad game in game 4 I'm sure the haters will be calling him unreliable again....
Is this guy serious? Yeah he sure did dominate tonight. LOL

I think we watched 2 different games

raiderfaninTX
05-31-2014, 11:35 PM
The MVP struck again,

Just a great second half from the best player in the league. Just proves again he doesn't need westbrook there

koreancabbage
05-31-2014, 11:36 PM
Is this guy serious? Yeah he sure did dominate tonight. LOL

I think we watched 2 different games

well he sure disappeared again in the dying moments. took like one shot?

B'sCeltsPatsSox
05-31-2014, 11:46 PM
Through seven years:

LeBron, 2 conference finals appearances, 1 Finals appearance, 2 MVPs

Durant, 3 conference finals appearances, 1 Finals appearance, 1 MVP

If Durant only adds to that conference finals appearances part by the end of his ninth year, then I think it'd be fair to get on his case. And I know that Durant didn't necessarily the best playoffs, but he still was OKC's most consistent player in the playoffs and was one of the best players in the playoffs.