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View Full Version : Is it time for the Wheel now?



JasonJohnHorn
05-20-2014, 08:51 PM
The Cavs have gotten their THIRD first overall pick in FOUR years.

This is CRAZY. You get teams like Detroit who have missed the playoffs for FIVE straight seasons and have still failed to secure a top three pick.

People act like the lottery benefits somebody and makes sure teams that are performing poorly get high picks to rebuild with, but that doesn't seem to be working out.


Instead, some random team gets the first overall pick.

The wheel is the only way to ensure teams actually get a crack at selecting first over all. The way it works now, rumorus swirl about the draft being rigged, it alienates fans, and it screws teams over. I don't even see how this benefits anybody any more.

ManRam
05-20-2014, 08:53 PM
Wasn't the main goal of the wheel to disincentivize shamelessly tanking? Isn't that something that the Cavs didn't do?

No. The answer for me has always been no. It's still no. I'm not opposed to tweaking the system, but I think the wheel is a ridiculously flawed replacement.

*Superman*
05-20-2014, 08:54 PM
I'm for anything that involved the Cavs NOT getting the 1st pick.

celtics 34
05-20-2014, 08:58 PM
I'm for anything that involved the Cavs NOT getting the 1st pick.
This

Crackadalic
05-20-2014, 09:00 PM
The Cavs have gotten their THIRD first overall pick in FOUR years.

This is CRAZY. You get teams like Detroit who have missed the playoffs for FIVE straight seasons and have still failed to secure a top three pick.

People act like the lottery benefits somebody and makes sure teams that are performing poorly get high picks to rebuild with, but that doesn't seem to be working out.


Instead, some random team gets the first overall pick.

The wheel is the only way to ensure teams actually get a crack at selecting first over all. The way it works now, rumorus swirl about the draft being rigged, it alienates fans, and it screws teams over. I don't even see how this benefits anybody any more.

Sad thing is the pistons pick was outside of the top 8 and was 9th and is now going to NO

ATX
05-20-2014, 09:00 PM
All I can say is that the lottery system as it stands now is ****ed (Extremely flawed).

JLynn943
05-20-2014, 09:01 PM
This is CRAZY. You get teams like Detroit who have missed the playoffs for FIVE straight seasons and have still failed to secure a top three pick.

Kings have missed the playoffs for 8 straight years and haven't gotten a top 3 pick. It's crazy.

JEDean89
05-20-2014, 09:02 PM
Sad thing is the pistons pick was outside of the top 8 and was 9th and is now going to NO

pistons tanked so hard to keep that pick, i'm so glad they didn't get to.

JEDean89
05-20-2014, 09:03 PM
while i don't like the cavs getting the #1 pick, i don't like the idea of the 76ers getting it either, tanking is not a sound strategy, historically it does not make your team better.

Theyhateme459
05-20-2014, 09:05 PM
I've been against changing the system.... However at this point I think the NBA needs a tweak that will also add weighting to previous years positions in the draft. Teams like Cleveland this year should of had even less of a chance.

koreancabbage
05-20-2014, 09:05 PM
its not rigged. its just pure luck. lol that system is so hard to beat. lol

dalton749
05-20-2014, 09:06 PM
at the very least they should show the draft publicly
with everything being so media driven nowadays there should be like 12 cameras in there watching every little detail

ManRam
05-20-2014, 09:09 PM
at the very least they should show the draft publicly
with everything being so media driven nowadays there should be like 12 cameras in there watching every little detail

There are media members there. There are reps from each participating team there. There are NBA officials there. There are third party members from Ernst & Young (a company way bigger than the NBA) there too. I wouldn't worry about something fishy happening behind closed doors. That's a lot of people with a lot of different interests in there. Appeasing them all and keeping them all silent about a fix is all but an impossibility.

Raps08-09 Champ
05-20-2014, 09:10 PM
Yes. Let's bring the wheel because a team that you didn't want to win and didn't think would win actually won.

Kevj77
05-20-2014, 09:13 PM
I've been against changing the system.... However at this point I think the NBA needs a tweak that will also add weighting to previous years positions in the draft. Teams like Cleveland this year should of had even less of a chance.I like this much better than a wheel. Cleveland should have had zero percent chance of moving up due to previously moving up in the last few years. They already use a weighted system, but they don't take into account past lotto results.

Raps08-09 Champ
05-20-2014, 09:14 PM
There are media members there. There are reps from each participating team there. There are NBA officials there. There are third party members from Ernst & Young (a company way bigger than the NBA) there too. I wouldn't worry about something fishy happening behind closed doors. That's a lot of people with a lot of different interests in there. Appeasing them all and keeping them all silent about a fix is all but an impossibility.

Nah, it's rigged man. Think about it. Even though the NBA's profit is only a small fraction % (single digits) compared to Ernst and Young, they can buy them off. And E&Y will accept it and risk their Big 4 status for that.

It makes TOO MUCH sense.

urban85disciple
05-20-2014, 09:24 PM
My wife worked for E&Y. You cannot trust big finance firms in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. Its all about the $$$.

Sofnr
05-20-2014, 09:24 PM
There are media members there. There are reps from each participating team there. There are NBA officials there. There are third party members from Ernst & Young (a company way bigger than the NBA) there too. I wouldn't worry about something fishy happening behind closed doors. That's a lot of people with a lot of different interests in there. Appeasing them all and keeping them all silent about a fix is all but an impossibility.

Don't speak sense. It's all a big conspiracy. They just really really like Cleveland. And all the other owners are perfectly fine with that :)

Raps08-09 Champ
05-20-2014, 09:25 PM
My wife worked for E&Y. You cannot trust big finance firms in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. Its all about the $$$.

Imagine the money they lose for being part of this if it was rigged.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
05-20-2014, 09:26 PM
No to the wheel, but I feel like there should be a way that a team can't get the top pick back to back years.

MrfadeawayJB
05-20-2014, 09:30 PM
Why don't they just televise the actually ping pong balls

Raps08-09 Champ
05-20-2014, 09:33 PM
Why don't they just televise the actually ping pong balls

The actual process wouldn't make sense to televise. They do show it afterwards with team reps and a 3rd party bigger than the NBA. No team member or E&Y representative complained so far.


http://www.nba.com/video/channels/draft/2014/05/20/052014-draft-lottery-behind-the-scenes.nba/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpts

*Superman*
05-20-2014, 09:33 PM
Why don't they just televise the actually ping pong balls

This. Remove all doubt, make it public. Not this closed doors bull-****.

JasonJohnHorn
05-20-2014, 09:35 PM
Yes. Let's bring the wheel because a team that you didn't want to win and didn't think would win actually won.

That is not the argument at all. The argument is that the top picks aren't getting evenly distributed. Period.

NBA_Starter
05-20-2014, 09:37 PM
It has been time!

jimm120
05-20-2014, 09:38 PM
Why don't they just televise the actually ping pong balls

Cause it's not ping pong balls.

It's this number thing. Teams get a certain amount of number combinations (the worse teams get more). Then 1 number at a time is filled out/chosen randomly. The final sequence of numbers is then I place...and whichever team has it, is the winner.

Think of it as getting the #s of 1000 to 2000 for 1 team. 2001-2500 to another team. 2501-2750 to another team. So on and so forth. Each subsequent team gets less and less combinations.


Personally, ping pon balls are alright with me. 100 ping pong balls, with the worst team getting 25 of them and the rest getting less and less.

I think that THEN we would see the worst team getting the top pick 25% of the time, instead of 7% of the time (which is what's happening now)

Raps08-09 Champ
05-20-2014, 09:38 PM
That is not the argument at all. The argument is that the top picks aren't getting evenly distributed. Period.

The purpose of the draft is to compensate those who miss the playoffs, not to give everyone a turn. Yea, let's give the Heat Wiggins this year because it is their turn according to the wheel.

jimm120
05-20-2014, 09:40 PM
That is not the argument at all. The argument is that the top picks aren't getting evenly distributed. Period.

Exactly. If you look at the odds, the worst team is supposed to win this thing 25% of the time...meaning 1 out of every 4 drafts, the worst team should win it.

Instead, we have the worst team winning it only around 7% of the time right now.

Raps08-09 Champ
05-20-2014, 09:44 PM
Exactly. If you look at the odds, the worst team is supposed to win this thing 25% of the time...meaning 1 out of every 4 drafts, the worst team should win it.

Instead, we have the worst team winning it only around 7% of the time right now.

In theroy, sure. There's a 75% chance they don't win though. Flip a coin and they should win 1 every 2 times but you can go like 6 straight flipping the opposite of what you called.

I think the chance for the #1 team to win 1 out of every 4 draft is 10.6% (25% chance to win x (3 drafts x 75% chance of not drafting #1).

North Yorker
05-20-2014, 09:45 PM
They could format the lottery like the NHL does. It is the exact same except the "winner" of the lotto only moves up 4 spots. So only the top 5 worse teams have an opportunity for the 1st pick.

So in this instance the Cavs would pick 5th, with the top 4 remaining the same.

*Superman*
05-20-2014, 09:47 PM
Cause it's not ping pong balls.

It's this number thing. Teams get a certain amount of number combinations (the worse teams get more). Then 1 number at a time is filled out/chosen randomly. The final sequence of numbers is then I place...and whichever team has it, is the winner.

Think of it as getting the #s of 1000 to 2000 for 1 team. 2001-2500 to another team. 2501-2750 to another team. So on and so forth. Each subsequent team gets less and less combinations.


Personally, ping pon balls are alright with me. 100 ping pong balls, with the worst team getting 25 of them and the rest getting less and less.

I think that THEN we would see the worst team getting the top pick 25% of the time, instead of 7% of the time (which is what's happening now)

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/draft/2014/05/20/052014-draft-lottery-behind-the-scenes.nba/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpts

JasonJohnHorn
05-20-2014, 09:48 PM
The argument is not about 'the NBA is rigged', it is about the picks being distributed evenly and every team getting access to top picks.

Jamiecballer
05-20-2014, 09:54 PM
I've always been in favor of the wheel. Transparency seems to be an issue and it doesn't get any more transparent than that.

mike_noodles
05-20-2014, 09:55 PM
The wheel is one of the worst ideas for fixing the draft ever the system does need to change but the league can't be that stupid about it.

Jamiecballer
05-20-2014, 10:08 PM
Thankfully there is support for it amongst league execs

Shlumpledink
05-20-2014, 10:16 PM
People were ready to revolt if the Lakers got the first pick. Cavs get third first pick in 4 years and people barely care

ATX
05-20-2014, 10:31 PM
Yes. Let's bring the wheel because a team that you didn't want to win and didn't think would win actually won.

Completely missing the point. The point is that it's flawed. A team should not be able to win the #1 overall pick in 3 out of 4 years. THey got lucky sure, but there are FAR more deserving franchises.

Raps08-09 Champ
05-20-2014, 10:39 PM
Completely missing the point. The point is that it's flawed. A team should not be able to win the #1 overall pick in 3 out of 4 years. THey got lucky sure, but there are FAR more deserving franchises.

The lottery is not about who deserves it the most. It never has been.

FOXHOUND
05-20-2014, 10:50 PM
And what exactly would determine what franchise "deserved" the top pick? Every team plays under the same rules, no team has an advantage in the draft. The NBA draft lottery is supposed to defer teams from tanking. The fact that the worst record only has a 25% chance to win and has only won about 7% of them does this to great effect. It's only been slight below par, as another poster showed the math that it's actually about a 10% chance to win.

People complain about the lottery results every year for many reasons, and it's always overblown. The wheel in particular is absolutely stupid. The only owners who would be in favor of a system like that are the idiots who think they've been wronged because of the poor job they've done running their franchise.

numba1CHANGsta
05-20-2014, 10:54 PM
Why do they keep giving the ball to Hibbert? Dumbass Pacers, do you see the Heat passing the ball to Birdman in every possession? NO

ATX
05-20-2014, 10:59 PM
Why do they keep giving the ball to Hibbert? Dumbass Pacers, do you see the Heat passing the ball to Birdman in every possession? NO

How is this related to this thread?

ATX
05-20-2014, 11:01 PM
The lottery is not about who deserves it the most. It never has been.

Ya, I get that. I'm saying that a team that is not the worst in the league wins the #1 overall 3 out of 4 years, then this should be evident that the system is severely flawed.

Raps08-09 Champ
05-20-2014, 11:10 PM
Ya, I get that. I'm saying that a team that is not the worst in the league wins the #1 overall 3 out of 4 years, then this should be evident that the system is severely flawed.

Of course it is flawed. But the wheel sure as hell isn't the answer. Sure, you can modify the lottery but should we punish teams who are lucky when they have done nothing wrong? Everyone knows the lottery is based on odds. We shouldn't get mad because someone else pulls the improbable.

Crackadalic
05-20-2014, 11:18 PM
The wheel to me is even more stupid then the current system. Imagine Heat or OKC with the number one pick just because it's their turn.

JdKing7
05-20-2014, 11:39 PM
Ya, I get that. I'm saying that a team that is not the worst in the league wins the #1 overall 3 out of 4 years, then this should be evident that the system is severely flawed.

If that were the case the system wouldn't be as flawed as it is now. If the team with the worst record has a 25% chance of winning the lotto, theres a 75 % chance another team wins it. So technically from a math standpoint, shouldn't another team besides the team with the worst record win it 3 out of the 4 years? It's just seems that the results seem like the team with the worst record has far less than 25 % chance of getting the top pick.

goingfor28
05-20-2014, 11:55 PM
Sad thing is the pistons pick was outside of the top 8 and was 9th and is now going to NO

Charlotte

ATX
05-21-2014, 12:03 AM
If that were the case the system wouldn't be as flawed as it is now. If the team with the worst record has a 25% chance of winning the lotto, theres a 75 % chance another team wins it. So technically from a math standpoint, shouldn't another team besides the team with the worst record win it 3 out of the 4 years? It's just seems that the results seem like the team with the worst record has far less than 25 % chance of getting the top pick.

I get "The math" I do. I get the idea of the lottery. In fact I have had minimal objection to it until I witnessed a team win it 3 out of 4 years. That's crazy, never been done before. If that is possible, then what's stopping the defunct Cav's organization from winning it again. The lottery system is flawed…All I'm saying. There must be a better way, and I NEVER once said (Not referring to your post) that the Wheel is the answer, just that there must be a better solution. Sure I admit that that I am a bit put off by the fact that it was the Cavs winning it again…I mean after the James exit, the script just seems too perfect, and moreover Gilbert is the LAST owner that should find such immaculate fortune..And their own fans were so disgraceful about the situation. It's personal sure, but I would have rather seen ANY other team outside of the Lakers win the lottery.

_Gmen_
05-21-2014, 12:05 AM
I don't like the lottery.

Worst team needs to get the highest pick. End of story.

OR, have every team in the league get a chance for #1 pick then all the rest go by exact records.

DR_1
05-21-2014, 12:05 AM
I've never understood why people like the wheel - there are problems with it that make it worse than the lotto. For example, college players will have some say in where they go, which could benefit certain teams but really hurt others. Also, it will hurt league balance if the champ happens to get a high pick.

NYMetros
05-21-2014, 12:07 AM
"And with the 1st overall pick in the 2014 NBA draft, the 3 time defending champion Miami Heat select.."

Yeah, bad idea.

cssdmark
05-21-2014, 12:25 AM
We'll the cavs in the past 4 years had 3 number one picks a 2 and 4, something like that. If they cannot make the playoffs next year they should be excluded from the lottery just on principal. With all those top picks and your team still sucks then it is not the players it is the organization.

_Gmen_
05-21-2014, 12:29 AM
"And with the 1st overall pick in the 2014 NBA draft, the 3 time defending champion Miami Heat select.."

Yeah, bad idea.

Not really.

Every team deserves a SHOT at the #1 pick.

JdKing7
05-21-2014, 12:32 AM
I get "The math" I do. I get the idea of the lottery. In fact I have had minimal objection to it until I witnessed a team win it 3 out of 4 years. That's crazy, never been done before. If that is possible, then what's stopping the defunct Cav's organization from winning it again. The lottery system is flawed…All I'm saying. There must be a better way, and I NEVER once said (Not referring to your post) that the Wheel is the answer, just that there must be a better solution. Sure I admit that that I am a bit put off by the fact that it was the Cavs winning it again…I mean after the James exit, the script just seems too perfect, and moreover Gilbert is the LAST owner that should find such immaculate fortune..And their own fans were so disgraceful about the situation. It's personal sure, but I would have rather seen ANY other team outside of the Lakers win the lottery.

I definitely agree with you. The lotto is highly flawed and the wheel is not the answer. I don't know what is the answer, but somehow and someway someone in the brain trust has to be able to figure out a better system to make the playing field a little more even. There is no way a single team should have the first overall pick 3 out of 4 years. That is just crazy. Like someone said before, the way the NHL does the lottery wouldn't be a terrible idea or the idea of a weighted system taking prior into consideration. The fact that teams are going to attempt to tank (whether that method is effective or not) throws another curveball into the mix of making it fair.

Sadds The Gr8
05-21-2014, 12:44 AM
no, the wheel idea is ****ing stupid. I don't understand why they dont just have a random draw, give the worst team the most balls (30), 2nd worst team the 2nd most balls (29), 3rd worst team the third most balls (28) and so on until the championship team gets the least amount of balls (1). Have a draw off that, and boom, tanking is gone since the low ranked playoff teams would have a chance at a high pick and avoid mediocrity. Host that draw live, and with EVERY TEAM being eligible for EVERY PICK (not just the lottery teams being eligible ONLY for top 3 spots) the lottery will get crazy ratings. It'd be awesome.

The whole lottery thing only being for the top 3 spots is stupid...

_Gmen_
05-21-2014, 12:56 AM
no, the wheel idea is ****ing stupid. I don't understand why they dont just have a random draw, give the worst team the most balls (30), 2nd worst team the 2nd most balls (29), 3rd worst team the third most balls (28) and so on until the championship team gets the least amount of balls (1). Have a draw off that, and boom, tanking is gone since the low ranked playoff teams would have a chance at a high pick and avoid mediocrity. Host that draw live, and with EVERY TEAM being eligible for EVERY PICK (not just the lottery teams being eligible ONLY for top 3 spots) the lottery will get crazy ratings. It'd be awesome.

The whole lottery thing only being for the top 3 spots is stupid...

LoL.

Interesting formula.

Trwood12
05-21-2014, 01:22 AM
I don't understand why the lottery is even a thing really. Just put it in order by record and cut the BS. But I guess they couldn't rig it that way..

Trwood12
05-21-2014, 01:25 AM
no, the wheel idea is ****ing stupid. I don't understand why they dont just have a random draw, give the worst team the most balls (30), 2nd worst team the 2nd most balls (29), 3rd worst team the third most balls (28) and so on until the championship team gets the least amount of balls (1). Have a draw off that, and boom, tanking is gone since the low ranked playoff teams would have a chance at a high pick and avoid mediocrity. Host that draw live, and with EVERY TEAM being eligible for EVERY PICK (not just the lottery teams being eligible ONLY for top 3 spots) the lottery will get crazy ratings. It'd be awesome.

The whole lottery thing only being for the top 3 spots is stupid...

I actually kind of like this idea. It might need some tweaking but it could work well.

_Gmen_
05-21-2014, 01:38 AM
I don't understand why the lottery is even a thing really. Just put it in order by record and cut the BS. But I guess they couldn't rig it that way..

People ignore the fact that teams tank regardless of if they are guaranteed the worst pick with the worst record.

So like I said, just put it in order of worst record getting the best pick.

Sadds The Gr8
05-21-2014, 01:56 AM
I actually kind of like this idea. It might need some tweaking but it could work well.

I guess a flaw would be repeatedly drawing the lottery balls of teams that have already gotten their slots later in the draft, making it longer but w/e, they can just do the top 14 picks on live tv since that's all everyone cares about, then show the rest online on espn's/nbatv's website or something.

Deception
05-21-2014, 02:01 AM
Just kick the Cavs out of the NBA, then there will be no more rigging.

_Gmen_
05-21-2014, 02:26 AM
All this talk of tanking is funny to me, like I said teams are going to tank regardless.

And what is worse, a team that has a terrible record and getting a high pick or a team that is truly bad and getting hosed by a mediocre team like previous years...

1993 Orlando Magic win lotto with a 1.5% chance
1995 Golden State wins lotto with 9.8% chance
2000 New Jersey wins lotto with 4.4 % chance
2002 Houston wins lotto with 8.9% chance
2005 Milwaukee 6.5 % chance
2006 Toronto 8.5% chance
2007 Portland 5.3% chance
2008 Chicago 1.7% chance
2011 LAC 2.8% chance
2014 Cleveland 1.7% chance

So as you can see it appears to be just getting worse and worse.

Since 1985 only THREE teams with the worst record have won the lotto.

kobe4thewinbang
05-21-2014, 02:37 AM
I don't understand why the lottery is even a thing really. Just put it in order by record and cut the BS. But I guess they couldn't rig it that way..THIS.

/thread

Avenged
05-21-2014, 02:40 AM
Not gonna lie but I'm kind of loving the backlash that the Cavaliers are getting as compared to the the lakers getting #7. I said earlier, before the draft, if the cavaliers won the lottery i would literally flip my ****. This has gotten ridiculous. The odds of them getting the #1 pick continously is close to impossible.

kobe4thewinbang
05-21-2014, 02:51 AM
Not gonna lie but I'm kind of loving the backlash that the Cavaliers are getting as compared to the the lakers getting #7. I said earlier, before the draft, if the cavaliers won the lottery i would literally flip my ****. This has gotten ridiculous. The odds of them getting the #1 pick continously is close to impossible.And the Cavs will still stink it up next season. Team made the NBA FINALS then went to utter crap and *not* just because LeBron left.

Jtirado16
05-21-2014, 02:52 AM
I think it should like the other sports.. Just do it by records.. If a team has the worst record in the league then they should draft #1.

Avenged
05-21-2014, 03:10 AM
I think it should like the other sports.. Just do it by records.. If a team has the worst record in the league then they should draft #1.

That's flawed too though. I can imagine all these teams literally tanking for real now under that system..

_Gmen_
05-21-2014, 03:12 AM
That's flawed too though. I can imagine all these teams literally tanking for real now under that system..

It is not flawed.

Hellcrooner
05-21-2014, 03:14 AM
it will never be time for the Wheel
Its the stupidest idea ever and the certificate of defuction for some franchise that is not doing well and suddenly descovers they will have 1st pick in 2067

pd7631
05-21-2014, 03:16 AM
I hate the idea of the wheel, but I do think a few minor tweaks to the current system are in order.

In my opinion, if a team gets itself a top 3 pick(not via trade), then they should be allowed to pick no higher than 4th for the following 3 seasons. For example; if the Cavs are the 3rd worst team in the league next year, they are automatically leapfrogged by the team with the 4th worst record(so long as that team was not the Bucks or Sixers).

This way, teams that haven't been fortunate enough to hit in the lottery are given a better opportunity to do so, and this still allows for the bad teams who are top 3 ineligible to be towards the top of the draft to add much needed talent.

Spreads the wealth a little more while keeping the rich from getting richer.

kobe4thewinbang
05-21-2014, 03:27 AM
That's flawed too though. I can imagine all these teams literally tanking for real now under that system..Teams are already tanking...so no difference.

MickeyMgl
05-21-2014, 04:41 AM
They could format the lottery like the NHL does. It is the exact same except the "winner" of the lotto only moves up 4 spots. So only the top 5 worse teams have an opportunity for the 1st pick.

So in this instance the Cavs would pick 5th, with the top 4 remaining the same.

That sounds like a good one. Better than the current system, and WAY better than that ridiculous Wheel.

HoopsDrive
05-21-2014, 06:52 AM
The NHL idea seems reasonable. Also, limiting teams to 1 first overall pick in a span of 3 years doesnt sound bad either.

The wheel idea is ridiculous.

NoahH
05-21-2014, 10:43 AM
Wasn't the main goal of the wheel to disincentivize shamelessly tanking? Isn't that something that the Cavs didn't do?

No. The answer for me has always been no. It's still no. I'm not opposed to tweaking the system, but I think the wheel is a ridiculously flawed replacement.

I agree, I hate the wheel. I think the lottery is fine. So teams tank. Whatever. The only tweak I would do is to make tiers of probability for the lottery. Eg 1-3 worst teams get 12.5% chances, 4-6 worst teams get 7.5% chances, 7-10 get 5% chances 11-14 2.5% 15-19 1% 20-24 0.5% 25-30 0.4% etc or something like that

NoahH
05-21-2014, 10:44 AM
I dont understand how 2 days ago everyone was complaining about the fact that the NBA Lottery is rigged and unfair because of tanking and NOW everyone is complaining because average teams like the Cavs are getting top picks.

Raps08-09 Champ
05-21-2014, 01:38 PM
That's flawed too though. I can imagine all these teams literally tanking for real now under that system..

Exactly. The NBA had that and teams would actually throw games on purpose.

Raps08-09 Champ
05-21-2014, 01:39 PM
Teams are already tanking...so no difference.

Yea, but teams are not being rewards the #1 pick though even when they tank. You want teams to tank and be given the #1 pick?

MonroeFAN
05-21-2014, 01:41 PM
I dont understand how 2 days ago everyone was complaining about the fact that the NBA Lottery is rigged and unfair because of tanking and NOW everyone is complaining because average teams like the Cavs are getting top picks.

Whomever was complaining about how the lottery was unfair because of teams tanking is stupid. We've never had to deal with that problem.

king4day
05-21-2014, 01:51 PM
I've been against changing the system.... However at this point I think the NBA needs a tweak that will also add weighting to previous years positions in the draft. Teams like Cleveland this year should of had even less of a chance.

This is actually a really good idea.

LongIslandIcedZ
05-21-2014, 02:04 PM
Wasn't the idea of the lottery to stop teams from tanking?

Well that didn't work. Teams still tank. Just give the worst team in the league the first pick IMO.

Sly Guy
05-21-2014, 02:05 PM
I'm for anything that involved the Cavs NOT getting the 1st pick.

me too. Fortunately, they'll still find a way to pick badly.

I Rock Shaqs
05-21-2014, 02:51 PM
Honestly it's really not that difficult or complicated, if a team gets the #1 pick one year they shouldn't be aable to get a top 5 pick for the next 3 years or something along those lines.

MickeyMgl
05-21-2014, 07:25 PM
Wasn't the idea of the lottery to stop teams from tanking?

Well that didn't work. Teams still tank. Just give the worst team in the league the first pick IMO.

Oh you haven't seen tanking. What happens now is not tanking. What happened when they just gave the worst team in the league the first pick was TANKING.

This system is fine. Maybe a tweak here or there in the percentages, but it's fine.

MickeyMgl
05-21-2014, 07:26 PM
me too. Fortunately, they'll still find a way to pick badly.

Over the last ten years, the 1st pick in the draft turned out to be the best player in that draft only six times out of the ten.

MickeyMgl
05-21-2014, 07:37 PM
First off, let's remember that the Cavs got Kyrie Irving with a pick that the Clippers traded to them. Good move by the Cavs, and dumb move by the Clippers.

Second, there should be no limit to the number of top picks a team gets in consecutive years. People are treating this like some sort of reward, but the top pick in the draft is not a reward! It is welfare. If you suck, you get a chance* to draft first. The idea is still to produce a better team on the court. They're not being rewarded, because drafting first is not the objective. Also, drafting first, as we have seen on many occasions with numerous teams, is not a guarantee that you will select the best player. So people need to refrain from getting their panties all twisted over the draft order. It's not an exact science.

*A "chance" that can be traded for other assets. A "chance" that is weighted toward the worst records, but only guarantees the worst record a top 4 pick. Still, a "chance".

Trueblue2
05-21-2014, 08:42 PM
Watch them take dario saric

hugepatsfan
05-21-2014, 08:50 PM
If you jut got rid of the lottery and went by record I think the overall amount of tanking would decrease. The handful of worst teams in the NBA would still do it but you wouldn't have teams with 7th worst record tanking to have the 4th or 5th worst record instead. The few teams poor enough to legitimately be the worst team in the NBA would tank for better position like they do now but further down the lottery there would be less incentive to.

cooters22
05-23-2014, 12:10 PM
Why don't they do everything, count the balls, pick the balls, etc., live on tv? I don't like the idea of the wheel, but I do think it's better than the current way it's being run. Why should anybody outside of the top 5 have any chance at the #1 pick anyways. That alone is absurd. Do a lottery drawing, but only top 5 worst teams are eligible for top pick; then something like top 8 are eligible for #2 pick and so on for the #3 pick. I'd also like to see all places get selected. So the worst team also has a chance at the #13 pick.

I'd like to see something along the lines of a team signing a FA that they have to give up their next years first round pick to the team they signed the player from; something like they do in baseball. Otherwise some of these lower bunk teams will always be picking great players and losing them and getting nothing in return. Just an idea.

slashsnake
05-23-2014, 12:30 PM
If you jut got rid of the lottery and went by record I think the overall amount of tanking would decrease. The handful of worst teams in the NBA would still do it but you wouldn't have teams with 7th worst record tanking to have the 4th or 5th worst record instead. The few teams poor enough to legitimately be the worst team in the NBA would tank for better position like they do now but further down the lottery there would be less incentive to.

Not sure that would work. Take the Kings for example at #7. With the lottery they have a 15% chance of a top 3 pick. A 60% chance to stay at #7. And a 25% chance to fall.

If they tanked to #6. They have a 21% chance to move up, a 44% chance to stay where they are, and a 35% chance to fall.

So they increase their chances to move up by 6%, but their chance to fall goes up by 10%. Tanking to 6th without a lottery doesn't give you that 6% increase to get into the top 3. But does give you 100% chance to move up with 0% chance to fall from the previous spot.

Its a tough one to weigh. That top 3 really could change your franchise. But you are looking at getting that tanking working once out of every 15 times.

CELTICS4LYFE
05-23-2014, 01:12 PM
I don't mind the ping pong balls but think the system should change. Something like putting the team logo on the balls(worst team with 14 n last lotto team with only 1) n drawing it live on tv.

Bruno
05-23-2014, 03:08 PM
maybe they need to alter the rules of the lottery where a team is only eligible for the top pick twice over a five year period, and only eligible for top three times over a seven year period. :shrug:

so ridiculous that Cleveland got this pick i'm with simmons in saying that i wish any other team got it.

Hellcrooner
05-23-2014, 10:42 PM
Watch them take dario saric

They can do much worse.

Glen Robinson ?

Shammyguy3
05-23-2014, 11:16 PM
Cause it's not ping pong balls.

It's this number thing. Teams get a certain amount of number combinations (the worse teams get more). Then 1 number at a time is filled out/chosen randomly. The final sequence of numbers is then I place...and whichever team has it, is the winner.

Think of it as getting the #s of 1000 to 2000 for 1 team. 2001-2500 to another team. 2501-2750 to another team. So on and so forth. Each subsequent team gets less and less combinations.


Personally, ping pon balls are alright with me. 100 ping pong balls, with the worst team getting 25 of them and the rest getting less and less.

I think that THEN we would see the worst team getting the top pick 25% of the time, instead of 7% of the time (which is what's happening now)

The odds are exactly the same. This does absolutely nothing.


Honestly it's really not that difficult or complicated, if a team gets the #1 pick one year they shouldn't be aable to get a top 5 pick for the next 3 years or something along those lines.

So what if a team that TRULY deserves a top-pick, gets the 1st pick in a ****** *** draft like last year's after just missing a franchise player in the previous draft ... only for the next draft to be much like this year's where there are potentially a handful of future top-20ish players available. That team should be punished for being unlucky and getting a top pick in the worst draft ever?

Nah. Don't buy it.


A better thing to do is to have only the #1 overall selection drawn for by only the 5 worst teams in the league (or the bottom 17% of the NBA teams, statistically). The 6th through 14th worst teams are locked into those draft positions. For the 5 worst teams in the league, the chances of winning the top pick goes as follows

30th best team - 30% chance
29th best team - 25%
28th best team - 20%
27th best team - 15%
26th best team - 10%

It's simple, has a good # to base it off, and would still not "guarantee" someone the top selection by tanking.

Jamiecballer
05-24-2014, 05:37 PM
Simple trick to eliminate tanking.

Same rules as normal but at the end of the lottery league pulls out a 6 sided die. 5 of the sides have a zero on it. The final side has a 1. If it comes up 1 (only 16.6% chance) the entire draft order 1 through 30 is reversed.

Bonus entertainment seeing the faces of the 13 lottery representatives on years where it comes up 1.

astonmartin10
05-24-2014, 06:52 PM
I am all for changing the system. It looks like the lottery might be flawed as there should be something that weights your possibilities if you have won the previous years.

I like how the NHL does it. You win the lottery you move up a certain spots. But even then you won't stop tanking. Probably it will make more teams tank.