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View Full Version : What would the ultimate Dream Team of the ages look like?



rocketfuel
05-19-2014, 03:09 AM
12 man roster plus 3 alternates

with any player from any generation up until now. What would it look like? Defensive unit, rebounding, 3 point shooting, speed fast break unit....

J4KOP99
05-19-2014, 08:07 AM
All prime?

Magic, j kidd, Stockton
Michael, Kobe
Bird, kd, pippen
Lebron, Barkley
Shaq, Kareem, td

I think, keeping in mind the euro style of play, this would be a pretty well rounded roster. Having said that, there's about 1 million different ways you could go here and they would all be correct. I just happened to want to see this group.

JasonJohnHorn
05-19-2014, 08:41 AM
If I could pic a starting line-up of players in their prime it would look like this:

PG: John Stockton
SG: Ray Allen
SF: Grant Hill
PF: Tim Duncan
C: Hakeem

I realize that each of those players are not the best at their position, but I think in terms of ego and chemistry and fundamentals, that team would be able to beat any team you assembled with other players.

On the bench I'd go with

PG: Chris Paul
SG: Reggie Miller
SF: Larry Bird
PF: Karl Malone
C: Ben Wallace

Extras
PG: Jason Kidd
SG: Joe Dumars
SF: Scottie Pippen
PF: Dennis Rodman
C: Brad Daughter

leroyp33
05-19-2014, 08:47 AM
Starters
Hakeem
Duncan
Lebron James
Jordan
Magic

Bench
Shaq
Barkley
Pippen
Bird
Bryant
Oscar Robertson
Bob Cousy

Like this team. Especially the starters. Jordan is the only guy that needs to touch the ball everytime down. The rest can play solid D and be effective without the ball. Really would like to play positionless with Pippen, Bron, Magic Hakeem and Duncan. That team would run any 5 out of the building.

asandhu23
05-19-2014, 09:09 AM
C: Wilt C2: Kareem C3: Hakeem or Moses
PF: Duncan PF2: K Malone PF3: Garnett
SF: Bird SF2: LeBron SF3: Julius Erving
SG: Jordan SG2: Kobe SG3: Drexler
PG: Magic PG2: Oscar PG3: Stockton

I Rock Shaqs
05-19-2014, 09:26 AM
People don't think about the team concept and just throw out the best players they can think of..

PurpleLynch
05-19-2014, 10:25 AM
Magic
MJ
Bird
Duncan
Kareem

This is my starting lineup,excellent overall,crazy offense.Kareem is the starter because of the strong bond with Magic. Magic and MJ can run whatever offense they want,Bird is the ultimate spot up shooter,Duncan and Kareem=lot of boards and good rim protection+really good offense,but with Magic,MJ,Bird I think they can just focus on defense and boards.

Payton
Kobe
Pippen
Malone
Hakeem

This is my bench and has the role of the defensive unit.Pippen and Payton are among the best defenders ever,Hakeem gives you huge defense and also great offense. I put Kobe to have a scoring spark is this defensive unit and Malone is the perfect player to do pick and roll with Payton and at the same time has great defense.

Extras:Shaq,Rodman,James,Stockton,Allen. These players weren't in the lineup,but it's a matter of preferences,they can all play(with the exception of Rodman who must play only in the defensive unit)in both unit.

KnicksorBust
05-19-2014, 10:37 AM
Magic-Jordan-Bird have to start.

The only questions to me are:

Do you play LeBron at PF (for his passing/shooting) or Duncan (for his post-play/size)?

Which center do you prefer (Shaq/Kareem/Hakeem/etc)?

FlashBolt
05-19-2014, 11:54 AM
You can't go wrong with anyone. Each player has their own way of style that would mesh well. I'm talking about the greatest players, of course.

Chronz
05-19-2014, 12:50 PM
My ideal team

Stockton
Jordan
Pippen
Bird
67 Wilt


My ideal fast break team:
Nash
MJ
Pippen
Bron
Russell

My ideal defensive team (that can still play offense)
GP
MJ
Pippen
Duncan
Russell/Hakeem



These things are always more fun if we remove the top20 or so players tho

savvy1803
05-19-2014, 03:15 PM
C: Wilt C2: Kareem C3: Hakeem or Moses
PF: Duncan PF2: K Malone PF3: Garnett
SF: Bird SF2: LeBron SF3: Julius Erving
SG: Jordan SG2: Kobe SG3: Drexler
PG: Magic PG2: Oscar PG3: Stockton

Really like this list , well done .

rocketfuel
05-19-2014, 05:16 PM
I actually had a hard time figuring this out....because the greatest players at each position sometimes have the same strengths and demand the ball.... and sometimes you sacrifice outside shooting for putting together the best 5.

For instance, I wondered if this starting unit would work:

Oscar Robertson
Jordan
Lebron
Hakeem
Shaq
or replace Shaq with Kemp to allow Kemp to guard the faster power forwards.

I noticed how devastating 3 point shooting can be in the playoffs even if the 3 point shooter isn't one of the 20 greatest players. Glenn Rice in his prime was ridiculously money. What if you had Jordan, Reggie Miller and Glen Rice play together for a rotation.... not as a starting unit of course but the way coaches experiment with lineups to add more shooting.

rocketfuel
05-19-2014, 05:18 PM
What would be the best fast break unit for the second unit?

rocketfuel
05-19-2014, 05:19 PM
How do you think this unit would do as a second unit?

Iverson
R. Mller
Dominique Wilkens
Blake Griffin
Kareem Abdul Jabar

KnicksorBust
05-19-2014, 06:03 PM
My ideal team

Stockton
Jordan
Pippen
Bird
67 Wilt


Wouldn't this team:

Magic
Jordan
LeBron
Bird
67 Wilt

kick that team's ***?

valade16
05-19-2014, 06:33 PM
People don't think about the team concept and just throw out the best players they can think of..

This is NBA; superior talent wins more often than not.

The 04 Pistons beat the Lakers because of superior team chemistry. If that Lakers team had all been in their prime (prime Shaq; Kobe; Malone; Payton) the Pistons get slaughtered...

smith&wesson
05-19-2014, 06:39 PM
I have a better question, which one of these are the best starting 5 considering chemistry

Magic
Jordan
Lebron
Duncan
Shaq

Stockton
Kobe
Bird
K.Malone
Hakeem

Nash
Wade
Pippen
Barkley
Kareem

Oscar
Pistol Pete
Durant
M.Malone
Chamberlin

KnicksorBust
05-19-2014, 07:17 PM
I have a better question, which one of these are the best starting 5 considering chemistry

Magic
Jordan
Lebron
Duncan
Shaq

Stockton
Kobe
Bird
K.Malone
Hakeem

Nash
Wade
Pippen
Barkley
Kareem

Oscar
Pistol Pete
Durant
M.Malone
Chamberlin

The first team by a mile. It has 4 of the 10 best players ever and unselfish stars. I find it funny that those teams seem to be listed from best to worst.

rocketfuel
05-19-2014, 09:25 PM
Which are the 4?

Lakers + Giants
05-19-2014, 09:42 PM
C: Shaq, Kareem, Wilt
PF: Duncan, Barkley, Malone
SF: Lebron, Durant, Bird
SG: Jordan, Kobe, Wade
PG: Magic, Stockton, CP3

Kaner
05-19-2014, 09:47 PM
Stockton
Jordan
Lebron
Duncan
Hakeem

I like Chronz's idea of eliminating top 20 players so I'll give that a shot too

Gary Payton/ Steve Nash
Ray Allen/ Reggie Miller
Scottie Pippen/ T-mac or Grant Hill
Bob Mcadoo/ Horace Grant
Bill Walton/ Artis Gilmore

JPS
05-19-2014, 09:57 PM
Little M
Big M
The Doctor
Toney
and Ivaroni

Bring it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S47bb6RCLhs

joeyc77
05-19-2014, 10:17 PM
PGs: Payton, Stockton
SG: Jordan, Miller, Jerry West
SFs: Lebron, Bird, Pipen
PFs: Duncan, McHale
Cs: Robinson, Russell

Small lineup

Stockton
Jordan
Bird
Lebron
Duncan

Big

Stockton
Jordan
Lebron
Duncan
Robinson

Defense

Payton
Jordan
Pippen
Lebron
Russell

JPS
05-19-2014, 10:18 PM
Seriously though

PG Magic, Kidd, Zeke
SG Jordan, Ray Alllen, Reggie Miller (this is not a Kobe dig I just need shooters)
SF Bird, Lebron, DrJ
PF Duncan, Barkley, Dirk
C Wilt, Russell, KAJ

Chronz
05-19-2014, 11:42 PM
Wouldn't this team:

Magic
Jordan
LeBron
Bird
67 Wilt

kick that team's ***?


Are we playing with 1 ball or 2?

Shammyguy3
05-20-2014, 01:12 AM
if we're thinking of playing Lebron at the 4, or Bird at the 4... then why not

Jordan
Lebron
Bird
Duncan
Kareem

Yumboldt
05-20-2014, 01:44 AM
Lebron
Ray Allen
Kevin Durant
Kevin Garnett
Dwight Howard

Bench
Rondo
Reggie Miller
Larry Bird
Ryan Anderson/Dirk
Shaq

Shlumpledink
05-20-2014, 04:09 AM
Best team of all time

Magic
Jordan
Lebron
Duncan
Olajuwon

stockton
kobe
pippen
malone
Jabbar
Bird
Gary Payton (throw in with that starting rotation, to make sure no one scores, ever)

rocketfuel
05-20-2014, 05:15 AM
How are these guys going to share the ball? A lot of them demand the ball... and spacing is a concern because where are the shooters? It's almost like having shooters takes away a little from the defense since none of the shooters are lockdown, while some of the great defenders are ok shooters. If you have 5 great scorers on the floor at the same time, then 2 out of the 5 won't be as effective since they'd be forced into roles that they are not as good at like spot up shooting.

KnicksorBust
05-20-2014, 09:09 AM
Are we playing with 1 ball or 2?

The same amount that the original Dream Team was playing with in 1992. You can't possibly be trying to sell that Magic and LeBron, two transcendent passers, are going to ruin my chemistry.

dodie53
05-20-2014, 09:14 AM
magic,
MJ,
kobe,
lebron,
duncan

bench
kidd,
tmac,
pippen,
KD,
shaq

Raidaz4Life
05-20-2014, 09:26 AM
Chemistry/skill wise

Stockton
Jordan
Bird
Garnett
Kareem

THE MTL
05-20-2014, 10:14 AM
PG- Magic
SG- Jordan
SF- Allen
PF- Lebron
C- Hakeem

On defense, Magic would guard the SF, Jordan the PG, and Allen the SG.

I put Ray Allen because you absolutely need his 3pt shooting on a stacked roster. And I would NEED Hakeem's super defense if I'm playing LBJ at PF

Chronz
05-20-2014, 12:28 PM
The same amount that the original Dream Team was playing with in 1992.
Well if we are playing the same competition that the Dream Team went up against, then you could win with any mixture of GOATS. But in this game, Im imagining a team as talented as my own, if not moreso, at this level you prioritize how those players mesh IMO.


You can't possibly be trying to sell that Magic and LeBron, two transcendent passers, are going to ruin my chemistry.
Ruin? You do realize that you need the ball in their hands in order to utilize that passing ability, right? A simple switch at the PG gives me someone who can actually defend the position and be used as a decoy when he doesn't have the ball. Besides, are you trying to sell me on Stockton NOT being a transcendent passer? The only difference is, I dont have to worry about hiding him against traditional PG's and I dont have to worry about trying to find a place for him on the perimeter without the ball. Its going to be tough trying to hide Bird as it is, but at least hes an elite team defender. Adding Magic only compounds the problem and forces me into a type of offense I dont want to run with MJ and Wilt already in the fold.

If you have MJ and Magic along with Bron and a traditional bigman, your spacing gos to hell. The fact that Bron is your 2nd best long range shooter in the lineup isn't my ideal set up. Look, no matter what team you have, you're going to have to make jumpers. Your team isn't as well equipped at seeking out its best shooters because you are more limited in who you can trust.

Your team would be easier to cover because when you are running your sets, I can simply shade off several of your non-shooters, who can you shade off of on my team? MJ is going to be the guy who we run the most plays for, so you cant shade off him.

rocketfuel
05-20-2014, 06:21 PM
If Magic was on the team, then the opposing team can use a Tony Parker, Chris Paul to go at will against him.


I wonder if Jordan would do well with Reggie Miller and Glen Rice to space the floor and then have Hakeem and maybe an athletic big like Shawn Kemp/Black Griffin to provide energy.

By the way, what is the most ideal center for the fast break unit?

IKnowHoops
05-20-2014, 06:23 PM
PG Lebron--Magic--CP3
SG Jordan--Wade--Kobe
SF Durant--Bird--Mcgrady
PF Drob--Duncan--KG
C Shaq--Dream--KAJ

All three lineups are devastating. All can run, or half court. Just disgusting. Game over.

BenFrank
05-20-2014, 07:08 PM
PG - Magic / O. Robinson / Iverson
SG - Jordan / Kobe / McGrady
SF - Lebron / Durant / Bird
PF - Duncan / KG / Barkley
C - Hakeem / Shaq / Kareem

Hellcrooner
05-20-2014, 08:00 PM
Pg: Magic
Sg:Jordan
Sf: Lebron
PF: Tim Duncan
C: Kareem

Basically Jordan and Kareem do the Killer role whilst the other ones move the ball seflessly also the Sg, Sf , PF postions are very good defensively to make up for Magic and Kareems Laziness

Bench woud be;

Pg: Stockton
Sg:KObe
Sf:Grant Hill
Pf: Kevin Mchale
C: Wilt
same structure of a non selfish trio and two matadors

Last 2 spots

Pippen for all around game
Bird to have a 5th scoring threat

KnicksorBust
05-20-2014, 09:57 PM
Well if we are playing the same competition that the Dream Team went up against, then you could win with any mixture of GOATS. But in this game, Im imagining a team as talented as my own, if not moreso, at this level you prioritize how those players mesh IMO.

So let's break it down.


Ruin? You do realize that you need the ball in their hands in order to utilize that passing ability, right? A simple switch at the PG gives me someone who can actually defend the position and be used as a decoy when he doesn't have the ball.

Decreasing their usage doesn't make them any less talented as passers. Having 4 players who can create easy looks is a benefit not a detriment.


Besides, are you trying to sell me on Stockton NOT being a transcendent passer?

Don't see where you got that from. My main point is that the talent drop from Magic to Stockton is not worth some minor advantage in spacing. I really don't see how you can put him on Magic in the post and if you make any switches whatsoever than Stockton will get abused.


The only difference is, I dont have to worry about hiding him against traditional PG's and I dont have to worry about trying to find a place for him on the perimeter without the ball. Its going to be tough trying to hide Bird as it is, but at least hes an elite team defender. Adding Magic only compounds the problem and forces me into a type of offense I dont want to run with MJ and Wilt already in the fold.

Magic's offensive advantage over Stockton far outweighs his disadvantage defensively. Plus, with MJ and LeBron how do you not take advantage of the transition game by using the greatest fastbreak PG of all-time (Nash 1B)?


If you have MJ and Magic along with Bron and a traditional bigman, your spacing gos to hell. The fact that Bron is your 2nd best long range shooter in the lineup isn't my ideal set up. Look, no matter what team you have, you're going to have to make jumpers. Your team isn't as well equipped at seeking out its best shooters because you are more limited in who you can trust.

How does my spacing go to hell with Jordan-LeBron-Bird? All of which had seasons over 40% from 3pt. I'm down with spacing but the notion that I need more shooting than that seems like overkill.


Your team would be easier to cover because when you are running your sets, I can simply shade off several of your non-shooters, who can you shade off of on my team? MJ is going to be the guy who we run the most plays for, so you cant shade off him.

Just curious, would you cover Jordan with Jordan or Pippen?

Chronz
05-21-2014, 12:20 AM
Decreasing their usage doesn't make them any less talented as passers.
It decreases the utility of it, but all of this is moot considering Stockton is every bit as great a passer as the game has ever seen.


Having 4 players who can create easy looks is a benefit not a detriment.
Agreed?



Don't see where you got that from.
Because you brought up passing as a strength for Magic OVER Stockton in this scenario. The passing acumen remains the same, making it a non-distinguishing factor.



My main point is that the talent drop from Magic to Stockton is not worth some minor advantage in spacing.
That much is obvious, I just dont agree with the reasons you have given.


I really don't see how you can put him on Magic in the post and if you make any switches whatsoever than Stockton will get abused.
Thats the thing, you trying to abuse a singular matchup in the post is what I would WANT as a defense with strongside overloading principles. That means you're not going to MJ and that leaves you with very little shooting when I wall up the paint. And on the other end, I dont have to force the issue in the post as Stockton can and did kill Magic off the dribble.

We just have different ideas of how to build the perfect team. If you add Magic, I think you have to make some changes elsewhere on the roster.



Magic's offensive advantage over Stockton far outweighs his disadvantage defensively.
In a vacuum, yes. But in a team setting with these circumstances, I dont agree. We've already seen Stockton abuse Magic, Gary Payton named him his toughest cover (over MJ), I really dont see this as a diss against Magic, just me going for the guy who personifies the position. If it makes you feel any better, I would actually have Jerry West as my PG in this lineup if we give him the advantage of growing up in the 3pt era but Im just trying to keep this simple.


Plus, with MJ and LeBron how do you not take advantage of the transition game by using the greatest fastbreak PG of all-time (Nash 1B)?
Thats a fair point, but playoff basketball between 2 teams of this quality will be won by halfcourt play IMO and I have more than enough post players, I need an outlet option for those guys.



How does my spacing go to hell with Jordan-LeBron-Bird? All of which had seasons over 40% from 3pt.
Cmon man, I dont know whether to feel disrespected or discouraged because it sounds like ur trying to pull a fast one on me by claiming MJ shot 40% when we both know that aberration of a season was due to the NBA making it easier to make 3's. Under any normal circumstances, we both know hes not shooting 40%. But MJ isn't really your problem, its more the fact that you go from being a team that feeds off MJ, to making MJ the outlet option off Magic's post passing. Which sounds deadly but not what I would want from MY TEAM. And as accurate as Bron was that year, hes not really the type to hoist away in that outlet role to offset his teammates inability to space, neither is Stockton but hes MUCH better at it than Magic.





I'm down with spacing but the notion that I need more shooting than that seems like overkill.
I think in situations like this, having more than 1 absolute non-shooter is a problem, especially if hes not a demon defensively.



Just curious, would you cover Jordan with Jordan or Pippen?
Definitely MJ, that way I can have Pippen flanking him. Pippen got abused in the post from what my memory tells me but he came up big in perimeter isolations and team defensive setting. But with Magic on the team, anyone trying to go to MJ in simple post up sets is going to find him facing alot of zone sandwiches. IIRC, Magic Johnson missed like 90% of his wide open 3's in the Finals vs MJ. I would have no fear of him out there.

_Gmen_
05-21-2014, 12:25 AM
Shaq/David Robinson
Tim Duncan/ Karl Malone
LeBron/ Durant/ Melo
Jordan/ Wade/ Kobe
Johnson/ Stockton

rocketfuel
05-21-2014, 04:19 AM
What about Oscar Robertson as the starting guard. In 1961, he averaged 30 points 12 rebounds and 11 assists. Pair that with two way players like Jordan and Lebron....

rocketfuel
05-21-2014, 04:29 AM
David Robinson
Hakeem
Lebron
Jordan
Oscar Robertson

You have a twin tower of two athletic 7 footers who have tremendous shotblocking and reboudning numbers. Oscar Robertson is a huge guard that rebounds better than Russell Westbrook and is capable of passing...and all 5 guys are terrific passers and all around players. They can play at a fast pace or in the half court.

BRADfromOZ
05-21-2014, 04:30 AM
I'd have to go with:
PG Magic, Stockton, Robinson
SG Jordan, West, Kobe
SF Bird, LeBron, Dr J
PF Russell, Duncan, Olajuwon
C Chamberlain, Kareem, Shaq

KnicksorBust
05-21-2014, 09:17 AM
It decreases the utility of it, but all of this is moot considering Stockton is every bit as great a passer as the game has ever seen.

So then why do you need Stockton if the utility of his greatest asset will be diminished? Why not just go with a 3 and D guy who can guard 1-3 instead of Stockton who can only guard PGs?


Because you brought up passing as a strength for Magic OVER Stockton in this scenario. The passing acumen remains the same, making it a non-distinguishing factor.

I brought up passing acumen because you implied that my team would need 2 basketballs to satisfy its need. I can't imagine LeBron going alpha dog on Jordan and hogging the ball. This is guy who was a willing passer to Boobie Gibson.


Thats the thing, you trying to abuse a singular matchup in the post is what I would WANT as a defense with strongside overloading principles. That means you're not going to MJ and that leaves you with very little shooting when I wall up the paint. And on the other end, I dont have to force the issue in the post as Stockton can and did kill Magic off the dribble.

Thibs and Doc would be proud. This is one aspect of this conversation that is a dead end because your comeback that you will "wall up the paint" sounds logical but in practicality I don't see how you prevent the 6'9 Magic from hitting his Junior-Junior Sky Hook all game long. Bird-LeBron are perfectly fine as spot-up shooters and MJ is opposite looking to cut if his man naps.


We just have different ideas of how to build the perfect team. If you add Magic, I think you have to make some changes elsewhere on the roster.


You can't cut MJ. Bird gives me shooting. LeBron gives me elite defense and an unstoppable transition game. There is no logical sub unless I scrap Wilt.


In a vacuum, yes. But in a team setting with these circumstances, I dont agree. We've already seen Stockton abuse Magic, Gary Payton named him his toughest cover (over MJ), I really dont see this as a diss against Magic, just me going for the guy who personifies the position. If it makes you feel any better, I would actually have Jerry West as my PG in this lineup if we give him the advantage of growing up in the 3pt era but Im just trying to keep this simple.

How much stock do put in to player profiles like that? Kobe said Melo was the toughest cover in the game. Does that elevate him?


Thats a fair point, but playoff basketball between 2 teams of this quality will be won by halfcourt play IMO and I have more than enough post players, I need an outlet option for those guys.

Agree to disagree. Magic's size would allow him to drive-pass-shoot over the significantly smaller Stockton all game.


Cmon man, I dont know whether to feel disrespected or discouraged because it sounds like ur trying to pull a fast one on me by claiming MJ shot 40% when we both know that aberration of a season was due to the NBA making it easier to make 3's. Under any normal circumstances, we both know hes not shooting 40%. But MJ isn't really your problem, its more the fact that you go from being a team that feeds off MJ, to making MJ the outlet option off Magic's post passing. Which sounds deadly but not what I would want from MY TEAM. And as accurate as Bron was that year, hes not really the type to hoist away in that outlet role to offset his teammates inability to space, neither is Stockton but hes MUCH better at it than Magic.

If I don't get MJ then you don't get Pip and then we're looking at Bird vs. Bird (wash), Stockton vs. LeBron (edge: you). But again that small shooting advantage of Stockton is negated in other places. Plus I'm not so sure if we just let LeBron spot-up he couldn't hit 40% consistently.


I think in situations like this, having more than 1 absolute non-shooter is a problem, especially if hes not a demon defensively.

I'm assuming this is your cover for Pippen.


Definitely MJ, that way I can have Pippen flanking him. Pippen got abused in the post from what my memory tells me but he came up big in perimeter isolations and team defensive setting. But with Magic on the team, anyone trying to go to MJ in simple post up sets is going to find him facing alot of zone sandwiches. IIRC, Magic Johnson missed like 90% of his wide open 3's in the Finals vs MJ. I would have no fear of him out there.

First part makes sense. I'll have to fact-check that 10% shooting percentage. :laugh:

Chronz
05-21-2014, 01:22 PM
Good talk bro, Ill answer some of these questions in abit but I just wanted to say I truly enjoy arguing irrelevant matters with you

nickdymez
05-21-2014, 04:02 PM
Peyton, Magic, Isiah
Kobe, Clyde, Tmac
Jordan, Bird, Grant Hill
Duncan, Barkley, Malone
Shaq, Hakeem, KAJ

valade16
05-21-2014, 05:22 PM
PG: John Stockton
SG: Michael Jordan
SF: Larry Bird
PF: Tim Duncan
C: Hakeem Olajuwan

Stockton and Bird can be outside shooters for Jordan. Stockton and Bird can be initiators of the offense. Stockton and Duncan can Pick and Roll. Duncan and Olajuwan mesh perfectly for high-post and low-post. 4 Elite defenders at their positions (and Bird was a great team defender).

I feel that team would be tough to beat...

Pablonovi
05-21-2014, 05:32 PM
C: KAJ (my GOAT#1); Wilt (my GOAT#4); Shaq (my GOAT #6-9) * Bill Walton
PF: Hakeem (my GOAT #6-9); TD (my GOAT #6-9); Karl Malone;
SF: LBJ (my GOAT #5-9); Dr J (my GOAT #10, ABA Super-Greatness included); Bird
SG: MJ (my GOAT #3); Kobe (my GOAT #6-9); West
PG: Magic (my GOAT #2); Stockton; Big "O"

So, here I have 15 players, 3 at each position. (They also compose my top 15 GOAT players).

The hardest players for me to leave off: Elgin Baylor (I go back and forth between he & Bird) AND Moses Malone.

imo, the gap between 1, 2 and 3 at each position is small. Which continues to surprise me. Given this, I can "live with" any order of the three at each position; and I would pick my line-ups depending on the opponent. It seems to me that it would tend to take a 7-Game Series to find the winner between/among any/all of the 5-man combos of these 15 players.

I did get to see the complete careers of all these players.

Notes about individual players (by my GOAT ranking):
#1 KAJ (Sky Hook =unequivocably, the Greatest-Ever Shot; 4 More Finals & 50% More Great Seasons than MJ)
#2 Magic (Greatest Team Mate ever; 3 More Finals than MJ)
#3 MJ (Greatest Assassin; worst team-mate here; only 11 Great Years; gambling/quitting=big negative for me)
#4 Wilt (Most era-dominant ever **; IF he/they could have won another Game 7 or two, he'd be higher)
#5 LBJ (Most Complete; with a 3rd Chip: for each future Great Year he completes, I might move him up a spot)
#6-9 Kobe (= LEAST PEAK of My Top 10, But Longest-Prime Ever (excepting KAJ & with TD about =)
#6-9 Shaq (2nd most era-dominant, after Wilt; if he'd of stayed with Kobe; they'd both be higher)
#6-9 T.D. (=LEAST PEAK of my Top 10, But 3rd Longest-Prime Ever (behind KAJ and maybe Kobe);
#6-9 Hakeem (most complete Center; his only Chips came when MJ wasn't around = why he's not even higher)
#10 Dr. J. (his ABA years (against ABA=NBA competition) were Phenomenal)

#11-15: West, "O", Stockton, K.Malone, Bird (in any order).
#16-20: Baylor, M. Malone, Bill Russell, J.Kidd, Pettit (I only saw the last 1/3rd or his career) (in any order)

* C: (uninjured) Bill Walton (best defender of the great offensive centers; best offensive player of the great defensive centers). I'd take him FIRST, not only at Center, but on my entire team IF Walton=Uninjured. (He was utterly complete, unselfish, totally team-oriented, super-smart.
BUT Walton really shouldn't qualify because he barely had two Great full-seasons due to injuries.

** George Mikan could easily be said to be the All-Time Era-Most-Dominant; but I can't count that because:
a) pro-B-Ball was not-integrated then;
b) pro B-Ball was distinctly more-"primitive" back than as compared to soon afterwards and ever onwards;
c) the overall pool of pro B-Ball-players and teams was so small.

rocketfuel
05-22-2014, 04:07 AM
If you have Jordan and Lebron on the floor, do you even need a true point guard? Might as well have a sharpshooter like Reggie Miller or Glenn Rice to punish defenses for crowding the paint.

All of these players are great, but which player's game fits with each other for the best starting unit? Which power forward would fit best with a Kareem or Hakeem or Shaq? Their games are different....

nandovelez
05-22-2014, 04:38 AM
If I did a top 20 team I have
C. Wilt pf. Malone. SF. Bird. Sg. Jordan. Pg. Magic
If we weren't allowed a top 20 lol. I roll with
C. Moses he's fringe for me. Pf.Dirk. SF. McGrady. sg. Ray Allen. Pg. Jason Kidd that be a fun team to watch

nandovelez
05-22-2014, 04:40 AM
Pg. Not phone dumb auto correct lol

bagwell368
05-22-2014, 05:26 AM
5: Hakeem/Walton
4/5: Duncan/KG
4/3/5: McHale
3/4: JBJ
3: Bird
1/2: Glove
2: Jordan/Allen
1: Magic/Stockton

Starters interchangeable depending on match-ups. Have inside and outside, passing, D, rebounding. It's not just ball dominant guys that have led the league in scoring.

Could argue Pippen over McHale, but I love having a number of the really elite low post scorers of all time on my team, and a guy that could in his prime cover 1/2 the league on D.

tredigs
05-22-2014, 05:45 AM
C: Walton / Hakeem
PF: Duncan / McHale
SF: Pippen / Lebron / Bird
SG: Jordan / Jerry West / Reggie
PG: Stockton / Magic

ALT: Shaq, Wilt and Kobe depending on whether or not we need to call in the ringers for a blood bath.

For varying reasons - mostly being the best mix of peak dominance with on-court chemistry - that is the way I would orchestrate the starting lineup + bench.

mngopher35
05-22-2014, 05:45 AM
Lebron
Jordan
Bird
Duncan
Hakeem

This would probably be my main lineup.

Magic
Kobe
Durant
KG
Shaq

Second unit.

Wilt and Allen as the final 2 maybe without thinking too in depth.

rocketfuel
05-22-2014, 05:56 AM
If I did a top 20 team I have
C. Wilt pf. Malone. SF. Bird. Sg. Jordan. Pg. Magic
If we weren't allowed a top 20 lol. I roll with
C. Moses he's fringe for me. Pf.Dirk. SF. McGrady. sg. Ray Allen. Pg. Jason Kidd that be a fun team to watch

Of course top 20 are allowed. The idea is to build the most unstoppable 15 player squad on the planet. Even if they faced a team filled with allstars, they'd still smite them easily.

rocketfuel
05-22-2014, 06:03 AM
Ok....is there a better starting five than this:

Shaq
Hakeem
Lebron
Jordan
Oscar Robertson

All five players can explode for 30 every night. Oscar has been able to average 31 points 12 rebounds and 11 assists for an entire year. Shaq and Hakeem would bully teams down low with 2 7 footers. And all 5 are very good passers. You can always bring shooters off the bench if this starting five struggles with their shot.

tredigs
05-22-2014, 06:28 AM
It's a powerful starting 5, not too sure it would work chemistry wise (or with 1 ball) what-so-ever, though.

rocketfuel
05-22-2014, 06:35 AM
It's just very intriguing to me because you'd have one of the most athletic guys at their respective positions and each player is top 3-5 at their position, with Jordan #1 and the other guys being top 10 players. Plus, they're all super athletes, who are skilled. I'd probably have Glenn Rice and Reggie Miller come in and space it out if they need 3 point fire power: Jordan/Miller/Rice

IKnowHoops
05-22-2014, 07:26 AM
It's a powerful starting 5, not too sure it would work chemistry wise (or with 1 ball) what-so-ever, though.

I don't like the chemistry/one ball argument. All you have to do is look at the original dream team and all the good dream teams there after. The teams were comprised with nothing but scorers who embraced playing selfless basketball because they new they could do it and win. Barkley and Drob scored more than Jordan did during the olympics and Jordan didn't care at all. Great scorers/players don't need the ball to be successful. But on the team they are on during the regular season, the teams need the ball in there hands as much as possible for them to be successful. This 1 ball theory is a complete myth and the proof is in the dream teams that have dominated. When all the players are hall of famers, hero ball is non existent. Enough with the tired 1 ball theory.

No disrespect

Pablonovi
05-22-2014, 11:14 AM
If I did a top 20 team I have
C. Wilt pf. Malone. SF. Bird. Sg. Jordan. Pg. Magic
If we weren't allowed a top 20 lol. I roll with
C. Moses he's fringe for me. Pf.Dirk. SF. McGrady. sg. Ray Allen. Pg. Jason Kidd that be a fun team to watch

Hey nandovelez,
What if you [B]didn't do a top 20 team, who'd you have? *

P.S. That's a nice non-top 20 team.

* I was just laughing over you saying "If I did ..." and then you went ahead and did do it. Of course, you were really trying to make a distinction between a team composed of YES Top 20-ers; and a team of NOT Top 20-ers. But that' ain't gonna stop me from being silly and having my fun "at your expense".

Pablonovi
05-22-2014, 11:24 AM
C: Walton / Hakeem
PF: Duncan / McHale
SF: Pippen / Lebron / Bird
SG: Jordan / Jerry West / Reggie
PG: Stockton / Magic

ALT: Shaq, Wilt and Kobe depending on whether or not we need to call in the ringers for a blood bath.
For varying reasons - mostly being the best mix of peak dominance with on-court chemistry - that is the way I would orchestrate the starting lineup + bench.

Hey tredigs,
Bring On The BLOOD BATH, MoFo's !!!

Let the starters get ahead by 50 in the first quarter; then bring in Kobe for 81 in the last 3 quarters! Plus an easy 100 from Wilt!

LET IT BLEED!!!

Pablonovi
05-22-2014, 11:28 AM
I don't like the chemistry/one ball argument. All you have to do is look at the original dream team and all the good dream teams there after. The teams were comprised with nothing but scorers who embraced playing selfless basketball because they new they could do it and win. Barkley and Drob scored more than Jordan did during the olympics and Jordan didn't care at all. Great scorers/players don't need the ball to be successful. But on the team they are on during the regular season, the teams need the ball in there hands as much as possible for them to be successful. This 1 ball theory is a complete myth and the proof is in the dream teams that have dominated. When all the players are hall of famers, hero ball is non existent. Enough with the tired 1 ball theory.

No disrespect

Hey IKnowHoops,
You don't know bleep (hehe).

" tired 1 ball theory"

Let 'em play with 5 balls (one each!). BLEEP IT!!!

That'd be so WILD. Heck, If We're Going "Hypothetical"; Let's Go Hypothetical All-The-Way !

nandovelez
05-22-2014, 12:08 PM
U know wat I changed my mind lol. ima just combine my two separate teams lol.
C. Wilt/moses
Pf.karl malone/dirk
SF. Bird/mcgrady
Sg. Jordan/ Allen
Pg. Magic/kidd
I believe the chemistry on that team would be unbelievable lol

valade16
05-22-2014, 01:41 PM
I don't like the chemistry/one ball argument. All you have to do is look at the original dream team and all the good dream teams there after. The teams were comprised with nothing but scorers who embraced playing selfless basketball because they new they could do it and win. Barkley and Drob scored more than Jordan did during the olympics and Jordan didn't care at all. Great scorers/players don't need the ball to be successful. But on the team they are on during the regular season, the teams need the ball in there hands as much as possible for them to be successful. This 1 ball theory is a complete myth and the proof is in the dream teams that have dominated. When all the players are hall of famers, hero ball is non existent. Enough with the tired 1 ball theory.

No disrespect

This is not a very good argument as they were facing teams of vastly inferior talent. If you are playing teams of comparable talent the idea that fit need not matter is ridiculous. Look at what happened when the US Olympic and World Championship teams faced teams of comparable talent; they lost.

MonroeFAN
05-22-2014, 01:42 PM
The fact that there is a new one of these topics every week is super annoying.

MonroeFAN
05-22-2014, 02:10 PM
what an awesome user name.

Pablonovi
05-22-2014, 02:55 PM
The fact that there is a new one of these topics every week is super annoying.

Hey MonroeFAN,
I don't know; except maybe for only you (no offense intended); the rest of us can't get enough of re-hashing anything and everything about these TRULY All-Time Great Athletes and B-Ball Players. They EARNED the praise; we relish in giving it.

Heck, Let's do this again next week too!

Pablonovi
05-22-2014, 02:56 PM
what an awesome user name.

Hey MonroeFAN,
Just to be completely clear:
To who's username are you referring?

rocketfuel
05-22-2014, 03:04 PM
As great as that 92 team was....and I couldn't believe my eyes (those guys weren't even breaking a sweat)....that was just scratching the surface. Bird and Magic were not in their primes. Shaq should have been on there.... you didn't have sharpshooters like Reggie Miller, Glenn Rice and Ray Allen. No Dream.

ricky recon
05-22-2014, 03:47 PM
Stockton - Kidd
Jordan - R. Miller
Bird - Magic
Duncan - Malone - Dirk
Hakeem - Wilt - Shaq

That'd be my 12 man squad. LeBron, Pippen, and G. Payton would be my inactives.

Pablonovi
05-22-2014, 04:44 PM
I'm noticing that most posters in this thread are NOT ranking KAJ high or even listing him.
I'd add just two things about him:

1) KAJ was picked to the All-NBA FIRST Team 10 Times & All-NBA 2nd Team 5 times. Thus, for easily the toughest of the 5 positions, he was considered THE #1 for 10 seasons & #2 for 5 more seasons. (No other center comes close to this).

Only Karl Malone and Kobe Bryant have more (1 more) First-Team Selections; and only Kobe ties KAJ for most over-all selections (BUT during KAJ's career there were no 3rd-Teams picked; undoubtedly he would have picked up at least one if not 2 3rd-Team Selections (had they existed) during his other 2-3 Great Years (when he wasn't selected 1st or 2nd). Given this, he'd rank ahead of Kobe, alone as the All-Time All-NBA Team "Most Selected".

2) SKY HOOK = Awesome "Semi-Automatic-Weapon"


Not counting semi-automatic shots from within three feet of the rim (including but not limited to dunks and finger rolls); The Sky Hook was the "most-automatic" (plus: difficult-to-make, unstoppable and Beautiful) shot in all of pro-ball history. An awesome "semi-automatic-weapon" to have on my/your squad.

Chronz
05-23-2014, 12:54 AM
So then why do you need Stockton if the utility of his greatest asset will be diminished? Why not just go with a 3 and D guy who can guard 1-3 instead of Stockton who can only guard PGs?
1st Q: Because hes the best passer that can still play off the ball. (Outside of West, who I think I should take instead. Certainly reduces the importance of any talent gap)
2nd Q: Thats a fair question but 3-D guys who can still play the point dont really exist, do they? I guess I could put Durant but I question his decision making at the moment.



I brought up passing acumen because you implied that my team would need 2 basketballs to satisfy its need.
Whats the point tho? You're not distinguishing Magic and the 1 basketball problem still exists for a lesser shooter/defender on that particular team. I said what I did knowing the comparison was between Magic and Stockton, thus the single ball problem. You cant refute that point by ignoring that key element.


I can't imagine LeBron going alpha dog on Jordan and hogging the ball. This is guy who was a willing passer to Boobie Gibson.
To be honest I dont really care about this alpha dog bull. Totally has nothing to do with what I think about their ego's, Im focusing strictly on skillset overlap.




Thibs and Doc would be proud. This is one aspect of this conversation that is a dead end because your comeback that you will "wall up the paint" sounds logical but in practicality I don't see how you prevent the 6'9 Magic from hitting his Junior-Junior Sky Hook all game long.
1 problem, this isn't the 80's (is it?). I can zone-sandwich him to at least make you work and while I wont prevent him from hitting a few, you and I both know its about the efficiency of the team, I would much rather force Magic into looking for his own against a crowd than give MJ more room to work with 1 on 1.


Bird-LeBron are perfectly fine as spot-up shooters and MJ is opposite looking to cut if his man naps.
Sure, but perfectly fine isn't what I want to run (lol, had to do it man, you set me up). Seriously though, your squad could crush mine if those guys are hitting their outside shots simply because I will yield more open perimeter looks but I want a team that can play off of MJ/Wilt in the post, with a better shooter/defender surrounding them. Think Ill change my guy to West tho.

West
MJ
Bron
Bird
Wilt

OR
West
MJ
Bird
Duncan
Hakeem

I think I like the 2nd team more now that I think of it.



You can't cut MJ. Bird gives me shooting. LeBron gives me elite defense and an unstoppable transition game. There is no logical sub unless I scrap Wilt.
Bingo. But then again, maybe Im overrating the skill margins and underrating the talent difference. Totally dont blame you for calling me out but I've been watching alot of Stockton lately. Im also starting to realize what a defensive sieve Magic could be.




How much stock do put in to player profiles like that? Kobe said Melo was the toughest cover in the game. Does that elevate him?
It was a throw away statement, meant only to shed light on how he was perceived. I know full well hes not a tougher cover than MJ, but I think very highly of GP's defensive mind and I think its telling of how surgical Stockton was. On this particular team, I would want that type.




Agree to disagree. Magic's size would allow him to drive-pass-shoot over the significantly smaller Stockton all game.
Maybe, but I dont fear Magic's shot in a crowd nor him passing out to inferior outlet options as much I fear MJ having more space to work with. Besides, I've already seen teams force Magic into passing out of post action (despite favorable matchups) and that was in an era where you actually had to wait for him to get the ball before sending that help. If its West/Stockton vs Magic in a crowd, Ill take that over MJ going 1 on 1.





If I don't get MJ then you don't get Pip and then we're looking at Bird vs. Bird (wash), Stockton vs. LeBron (edge: you). But again that small shooting advantage of Stockton is negated in other places.
HUH?



Plus I'm not so sure if we just let LeBron spot-up he couldn't hit 40% consistently.
You mean current Bron or historically? Cuz historically, I dont buy that teams couldn't have exploited a hidden skill in Bron if he had it. If you have a deadly set shooter, you will run sets that may get him open, Bron doesn't run them often because he doesn't take those kind of shots for a reason. IMO, hes already maximized the damage he can do from out there, by seeking more high% ones.



I'm assuming this is your cover for Pippen.
What do you mean?




First part makes sense. I'll have to fact-check that 10% shooting percentage. :laugh:
Ill see what I find

MonroeFAN
05-23-2014, 09:45 AM
Hey MonroeFAN,
Just to be completely clear:
To who's username are you referring?

Hey Pablonovi,

I'm referring to the username "BobSacamano".

Have a great day.

Pablonovi
05-23-2014, 10:41 AM
Hey Pablonovi,

I'm referring to the username "BobSacamano".

Have a great day.

Hey MonroeFAN,
I haven't had a TV in decades so I never experienced Seinfeld, so I had no idea what Bob Sacamano signified - I only found out yesterday thru a PM exchange with somebody here. That's why I couldn't know why you called that username "awesome" - it had meant nothing to me. (And then that username sent me a VM with all Links to scat-porn which I didn't think was particularly awesome.)

Thanx for the answer.
Do have a great day also.
Yours Sincerely,
Pablo

Chronz
05-23-2014, 11:25 AM
If you have Jordan and Lebron on the floor, do you even need a true point guard? Might as well have a sharpshooter like Reggie Miller or Glenn Rice to punish defenses for crowding the paint.

All of these players are great, but which player's game fits with each other for the best starting unit? Which power forward would fit best with a Kareem or Hakeem or Shaq? Their games are different....

I think you made a great point, obviously talent matters but you do need some glue guys to fit smaller roles IMO.

Ok....is there a better starting five than this:

Shaq
Hakeem
Lebron
Jordan
Oscar Robertson

All five players can explode for 30 every night. Oscar has been able to average 31 points 12 rebounds and 11 assists for an entire year. Shaq and Hakeem would bully teams down low with 2 7 footers. And all 5 are very good passers. You can always bring shooters off the bench if this starting five struggles with their shot.
Pretty much got the most physically dominant players for every position. I think we should do this without the Top-50 or so because its hard to argue against ANY team when they are all so stacked.

Chronz
05-23-2014, 11:27 AM
If I did a top 20 team I have
C. Wilt pf. Malone. SF. Bird. Sg. Jordan. Pg. Magic
If we weren't allowed a top 20 lol. I roll with
C. Moses he's fringe for me. Pf.Dirk. SF. McGrady. sg. Ray Allen. Pg. Jason Kidd that be a fun team to watch

Why so low on Moses/Dirk? Two guys who have accomplished the rare feat of MVP+F.MVP+Ring all while being at one point the most productive player in the league.

Pablonovi
05-23-2014, 11:55 AM
I think you made a great point, obviously talent matters but you do need some glue guys to fit smaller roles IMO.

Pretty much got the most physically dominant players for every position. I think we should do this without the Top-50 or so because its hard to argue against ANY team when they are all so stacked.

Hey High Horse,
I like the idea of BOTH discussions:
Best Team of 12-15 NBAs;
Best Team of 12-15 NBA-ers that are NOT Top 25, or 50 All-Time Players. *

* The only problem, (WITH THIS SECOND OPTION) and potentially a HUGE one, is we'd have to at least somewhat agree who was in and who was not in that Top 25 or Top 50. Perhaps if we start addressing a would-be Top 50, THRU THAT, we could reach a general consensus on a Top 25 (perhaps with some 5 "candidate members" so that we could reach a higher level of consensus; i.e., 30 agreed-upon "Candidates" for the Top 25). Then we could try to build teams EXCLUDING those 25-30 guys.

What say?

Hawkize31
05-23-2014, 12:10 PM
Honestly, I feel like all you need is:

Jordan and Lebron

Shaq or Wilt

Any other combination of 12 players.

Pablonovi
05-23-2014, 12:22 PM
Honestly, I feel like all you need is:

Jordan and Lebron

Shaq or Wilt

Any other combination of 12 players.

Hey Hawkize31,
IF you make that "Any other combination of 12 other All-Time Great players"; then you pretty much nailed it.

Chronz
05-23-2014, 01:25 PM
Hey High Horse,
I like the idea of BOTH discussions:
Best Team of 12-15 NBAs;
Best Team of 12-15 NBA-ers that are NOT Top 25, or 50 All-Time Players. *

* The only problem, (WITH THIS SECOND OPTION) and potentially a HUGE one, is we'd have to at least somewhat agree who was in and who was not in that Top 25 or Top 50. Perhaps if we start addressing a would-be Top 50, THRU THAT, we could reach a general consensus on a Top 25 (perhaps with some 5 "candidate members" so that we could reach a higher level of consensus; i.e., 30 agreed-upon "Candidates" for the Top 25). Then we could try to build teams EXCLUDING those 25-30 guys.

What say?

PSD's Top-50 list is the default option. Better guide than nothing.

Kaner
05-23-2014, 01:30 PM
PSD's Top-50 list is the default option. Better guide than nothing.

I was actually planning on making a thread for this taking out the top 50 players once this thread got buried but it's been taking awhile. Don't know what the top-50 list is but I was just going to use the top 50 picks of the all-time redraft.

Tony_Starks
05-23-2014, 01:46 PM
Magic
Kobe
Mullin
Webber
Ben Wallace

Isiah Thomas
Mitch Richmond
Bird
Sheed
Mourning

Michael Cooper and Pippen as plug ins.

Chronz
05-23-2014, 01:48 PM
I was actually planning on making a thread for this taking out the top 50 players once this thread got buried but it's been taking awhile. Don't know what the top-50 list is but I was just going to use the top 50 picks of the all-time redraft.

My fault for bumping so often lol.

I was going to beat you to it but today has been my first day off in a really long time so I've been slow this morning. Then I thought of something else.

What would this team look like if we made a team comprised of phenoms, age 21 and under.

MonroeFAN
05-23-2014, 01:52 PM
Hey MonroeFAN,
I haven't had a TV in decades so I never experienced Seinfeld, so I had no idea what Bob Sacamano signified - I only found out yesterday thru a PM exchange with somebody here. That's why I couldn't know why you called that username "awesome" - it had meant nothing to me. (And then that username sent me a VM with all Links to scat-porn which I didn't think was particularly awesome.)

Thanx for the answer.
Do have a great day also.
Yours Sincerely,
Pablo

Hey Pablonovi,

Scat-porn isn't all that bad,

Zack.

Kaner
05-23-2014, 02:10 PM
My fault for bumping so often lol.

I was going to beat you to it but today has been my first day off in a really long time so I've been slow this morning. Then I thought of something else.

What would this team look like if we made a team comprised of phenoms, age 21 and under.

still with the all-time theme or just right now?

right now I'd probably go with

Drummond
Davis
Parker
Wiggins
Dante Exum or Marcus Smart

Kind of surprised that I think this starting line-up would be really good defensively.

Chronz
05-23-2014, 02:11 PM
Definitely All-time

Pablonovi
05-23-2014, 02:17 PM
Hey Pablonovi,

Scat-porn isn't all that bad,

Zack.

Hey MonroeFAN,
I have a personal opinion about scat-porn; besides it just being sh***y. (hehe)
My addressing the issue here has ONLY to do with a VM in my "VM box" full of links to that "crap" ... is NOT something I'd want people looking there to run across (as: possible "guilt by association").

Kaner
05-23-2014, 02:19 PM
Yeah their weren't alot of options right now since you can just cross out the 2013 draft:laugh2:


To be honest I think you'll be underwhelmed with the variation all-time as well

80-81 Magic
rookie Jordan
05-06 Lebron
rookie Duncan
93-94 Shaq
Most all-time greats were superstars year 1

Pablonovi
05-23-2014, 03:09 PM
Yeah their weren't alot of options right now since you can just cross out the 2013 draft:laugh2:


To be honest I think you'll be underwhelmed with the variation all-time as well

80-81 Magic
rookie Jordan
05-06 Lebron
rookie Duncan
93-94 Shaq
Most all-time greats were superstars year 1

Hey Kaner,
71-72 KAJ (34.8 ppg among other proofs of dominance)
The year before his Bucks won 66 games including 20 Straight and blitzed thru the POs 12-2. A couple of years later he won his 3rd MVP in 4 years! Few Peaks Match that.

Trwood12
05-23-2014, 06:11 PM
C: Wilt C2: Kareem C3: Hakeem or Moses
PF: Duncan PF2: K Malone PF3: Garnett
SF: Bird SF2: LeBron SF3: Julius Erving
SG: Jordan SG2: Kobe SG3: Drexler
PG: Magic PG2: Oscar PG3: Stockton

This is probably my list as well. Hard to argue with.

Pablonovi
05-23-2014, 06:59 PM
This is probably my list as well. Hard to argue with.

Hey Trwood12,
Relatively minor stuff:
I'd take Jerry West over Clyde; Put Bird 3rd at SF; switch Wilt & KAJ

Sometimes I think I'd take K.Malone over T.D. Actually, imo, all 3 PFs are pretty darn even.

Another option, with the same players:
PG: LeBron in which case I'd move Magic downwards (LeBron can do what Magic did passing & team-first wise; and is a far more complete player). Don't know who'd I'd have 2nd PG - strong arguments for both "O" and Stockton. (imo, Stockton is vastly underrated in virtually every All-Time NBA Greats poll I've seen.)

savvy1803
05-23-2014, 07:02 PM
This is probably my list as well. Hard to argue with.

Agreed Trwood , really liked this list the only tweak i might make is swapping Drexler with Jerry West but that's just a matter of personal preference .

savvy1803
05-23-2014, 07:04 PM
Lol , as i put up my post Pablo got in just before me for swapping out Drexler :D .

Pablonovi
05-23-2014, 07:23 PM
Lol , as i put up my post Pablo got in just before me for swapping out Drexler :D .

Hey savvy1803,
See !?!?!
For whatever's that's worth? hehe

You know, I saw your post and thought it was mine, at first. And I thought "Wait a moment, did PSD give somebody else my post??"

Guess you're not as savvy as you claim (hehe).
While I might be as "Prophetic" as I claim (hehe).

rocketfuel
05-24-2014, 02:45 AM
I think you made a great point, obviously talent matters but you do need some glue guys to fit smaller roles IMO.

Pretty much got the most physically dominant players for every position. I think we should do this without the Top-50 or so because its hard to argue against ANY team when they are all so stacked.


When I was trying to think up of the most unstoppable team on the planet would look like, I was surprised at how hard it was to come up with the perfect team.... Even among the hall of famers, there's going to be some weakness in their game or duplication of their strengths. Certainly, wanted to have the best combination of defense and offense in the starting unit and have a fast break explosive offensive unit as the second...and all the other needs subbing from the 3rd unit.

I think the Big O doesn't get his due because he was before most people's times including mine...but based on the old footage and his stats, the guy was amazing. Shaq/Hakeem/Lebron/Jordan/Oscar Robertson might be too much for most teams. I was also intrigued by a fastbreak team that featured Kareem and Blake Griffin.....surround those two with some slashers and shooters that can go up and down the court.

Although, if it was the final shot...I would probably slip one non-hall of famer in there. I'd probably have this group on the floor:

Hakeem (for rebounding)
Robert Horry (still the most exciting clutch 3 shooter I've seen at hitting the series winning shot)
Reggie Miller
Jordan

Kaner
05-24-2014, 02:47 AM
Hey Kaner,
71-72 KAJ (34.8 ppg among other proofs of dominance)
The year before his Bucks won 66 games including 20 Straight and blitzed thru the POs 12-2. A couple of years later he won his 3rd MVP in 4 years! Few Peaks Match that.

Hey Pablonovi,

I was responding to Chronz's post of an all-time under 21 phenoms and unfortunately according to basketball reference Kareem was 22 his rookie year.

naps
05-24-2014, 09:08 AM
I would roll with:

LeBron
Jordan
Bird
Hakeem
Kareem

Hakeem is perfectly skilled to play PF. This team has everything IMO. Suffocating defense at the perimeter and in the post, length, rebounding, supreme perimeter scoring and shooting, finest post offense, and IQ. Also, notice how both my bigmen are pretty awesome free throw shooter for 7 feet length. I won't have any problem keeping my starting unit intact in the crunch time.

Magic Johnson is probably the greatest PG ever but his lack of defensive capability and long range is the reason he won't be my starting PG. Most smaller, quick PGs will just go by him easily. Most opposing point guards will be overwhelmed with LeBron's size, length, and quickness on defense.


Now give me:

Stockton
Allen
Pippen
Rodman
Russell

Off the bench. Defense, shooting, hustle, and HEART!

eso
05-24-2014, 09:16 AM
Steve Blake
Mike James
Rick Fox
Tractor trailor
Greg Ostertag..

Close thread.

SilverFalco8
05-24-2014, 09:30 AM
If I could pic a starting line-up of players in their prime it would look like this:

PG: John Stockton
SG: Ray Allen
SF: Grant Hill
PF: Tim Duncan
C: Hakeem

I realize that each of those players are not the best at their position, but I think in terms of ego and chemistry and fundamentals, that team would be able to beat any team you assembled with other players.

On the bench I'd go with

PG: Chris Paul
SG: Reggie Miller
SF: Larry Bird
PF: Karl Malone
C: Ben Wallace

Extras
PG: Jason Kidd
SG: Joe Dumars
SF: Scottie Pippen
PF: Dennis Rodman
C: Brad Daughter

No Jordan or Ewing?

Pablonovi
05-24-2014, 12:38 PM
Hey Pablonovi,

I was responding to Chronz's post of an all-time under 21 phenoms and unfortunately according to basketball reference Kareem was 22 his rookie year.

Hey Kaner,
Thanx for the clarification (I had seen him address the "under 21" question; I just hadn't realized your post was in response to THAT.

P.S. If you like you can call me either: Pablo OR thePropheticHoopsPablo (hehe)

rocketfuel
05-25-2014, 03:34 PM
Are there any under rated players like David Robinson, Shawn Kemp and Gary Payton that would fit in well even if there are not higher on the list?

Seeing how devastating an older Ray Allen was yesterday against the Pacers, I see how much of a weapon 3 point shooting is. I'd probably stock the team with 3 point snipers every where to spread the floor.

jerellh528
05-25-2014, 03:41 PM
Kaj
Duncan
Bird
Jordan
Magic

Pablonovi
05-25-2014, 03:51 PM
Kaj
Duncan
Bird
Jordan
Magic

Hey jerellh528,
Nice team.
I'd take Dr J * or LBJ ahead of Bird (but it might not be a (much) better team).

* THE ABA-version of Dr J - with moves and fluidity perhaps never seen before nor since - he was simply and unstoppably phenomenal!

jerellh528
05-25-2014, 03:53 PM
Hey jerellh528,
Nice team.
I'd take Dr J or LBJ ahead of Bird (but it might not be a (much) better team).

No need for him with magic and Jordan. But yes Lebron would make a good addition to any team, I used bird for my team of the ages in big part due to his aura and legend.

Bruno
05-25-2014, 04:01 PM
Jason Kidd or Chris Paul
Ray Allen or Reggie Miller
Larry Bird or Kevin Durant
LeBron James
Wilt Chamberlain.

the pieces fit. LBJ at small ball four with Wilt in the post, the wings running off screens and Kidd/Paul taking pressure off LBJ to facilitate? Four three point shooters. Wilt gets single coverage 50% of the game with this three point shooting barrage raining down from the heavens. really love the idea of putting Wilt with a small ball four instead of another post PF who prefers to be mid post or low block.

Bruno
05-25-2014, 04:04 PM
I would roll with:

LeBron
Jordan
Bird
Hakeem
Kareem

Hakeem is perfectly skilled to play PF. This team has everything IMO. Suffocating defense at the perimeter and in the post, length, rebounding, supreme perimeter scoring and shooting, finest post offense, and IQ. Also, notice how both my bigmen are pretty awesome free throw shooter for 7 feet length. I won't have any problem keeping my starting unit intact in the crunch time.

Magic Johnson is probably the greatest PG ever but his lack of defensive capability and long range is the reason he won't be my starting PG. Most smaller, quick PGs will just go by him easily. Most opposing point guards will be overwhelmed with LeBron's size, length, and quickness on defense.


Now give me:

Stockton
Allen
Pippen
Rodman
Russell

Off the bench. Defense, shooting, hustle, and HEART!

that's my logic too.

Pablonovi
05-25-2014, 04:08 PM
No need for him with magic and Jordan. But yes Lebron would make a good addition to any team, I used bird for my team of the ages in big part due to his aura and legend.

Hey jerellh528,
Like-minded ...

Yeah, Larry wasn't called "The Legend" for nothing. He was "aura-ble"!
And besides, you can't beat his last name! *

* Caaaaw, caawww! (oops, is that really "fly like a Sea-gull???)

Pablonovi
05-25-2014, 04:14 PM
I would roll with:

LeBron
Jordan
Bird
Hakeem
Kareem

Hakeem is perfectly skilled to play PF. This team has everything IMO. Suffocating defense at the perimeter and in the post, length, rebounding, supreme perimeter scoring and shooting, finest post offense, and IQ. Also, notice how both my bigmen are pretty awesome free throw shooter for 7 feet length. I won't have any problem keeping my starting unit intact in the crunch time.

Magic Johnson is probably the greatest PG ever but his lack of defensive capability and long range is the reason he won't be my starting PG. Most smaller, quick PGs will just go by him easily. Most opposing point guards will be overwhelmed with LeBron's size, length, and quickness on defense.


Now give me:

Stockton
Allen
Pippen
Rodman
Russell

Off the bench. Defense, shooting, hustle, and HEART!

Hey naps,
That starting 5 would average 30 ppg EACH; that's 150 a game per 36 mpg (and the assists would be OFF THE CHARTS!)

And then, for a "little" change of pace ...

In come the subs: and the opposing team goes: SCORELESS! Talk about a LOCK-DOWN set of bigs!
It'd be Stockton-to-RayRayForThray!!! EndlessLAY !

What a fun team!

rocketfuel
05-26-2014, 12:44 AM
Hey naps,
That starting 5 would average 30 ppg EACH; that's 150 a game per 36 mpg (and the assists would be OFF THE CHARTS!)

And then, for a "little" change of pace ...

In come the subs: and the opposing team goes: SCORELESS! Talk about a LOCK-DOWN set of bigs!
It'd be Stockton-to-RayRayForThray!!! EndlessLAY !

What a fun team!

Each of those players could probably score every single time they touch the ball.

Lebron's developing into a pretty good 3 point shooter.

Seeing the aerial assault Ray Allen did the last game and what Danny Greene last year, an ultimate team could probably field a way better version of the splash brothers: Reggie Miller, Glenn Rice and Ray Allen.

How are Reggie Miller, Glenn Rice and Ray Allen's defense by the way?

IKnowHoops
05-27-2014, 10:32 AM
I would roll with:

LeBron
Jordan
Bird
Hakeem
Kareem

Hakeem is perfectly skilled to play PF. This team has everything IMO. Suffocating defense at the perimeter and in the post, length, rebounding, supreme perimeter scoring and shooting, finest post offense, and IQ. Also, notice how both my bigmen are pretty awesome free throw shooter for 7 feet length. I won't have any problem keeping my starting unit intact in the crunch time.

Magic Johnson is probably the greatest PG ever but his lack of defensive capability and long range is the reason he won't be my starting PG. Most smaller, quick PGs will just go by him easily. Most opposing point guards will be overwhelmed with LeBron's size, length, and quickness on defense.


Now give me:

Stockton
Allen
Pippen
Rodman
Russell

Off the bench. Defense, shooting, hustle, and HEART!

In order to maximize overall size, speed, and athleticism and still garnish elite passing any all time team needs to start with Lebron at PG. The mismatch he would create alone with any other PG would just be to much to overcome. Then compile that with the ability to start another top wing such as Bird or Durant means that every time down those guys are getting open looks because you need to double team Bron because your PG whether it be Stockton, Chris Paul, or Big O is going to need tons of help or get scored on easily. Bron at PG represents the biggest mismatch in this entire thread IMO.

Pablonovi
05-27-2014, 01:50 PM
In order to maximize overall size, speed, and athleticism and still garnish elite passing any all time team needs to start with Lebron at PG. The mismatch he would create alone with any other PG would just be to much to overcome. Then compile that with the ability to start another top wing such as Bird or Durant means that every time down those guys are getting open looks because you need to double team Bron because your PG whether it be Stockton, Chris Paul, or Big O is going to need tons of help or get scored on easily. Bron at PG represents the biggest mismatch in this entire thread IMO.

I AGREE
And even more so, because not only on the O side of the ball is it a serious mismatch; but when he's on D, IF his job were to just play PG; he'd, at least severely slow down any of the All-Time PGs - damaging their effectiveness in a big way and thus hurting the other team's overall performance significantly.

Gee, just maybe ... you do know hoops ?

hehe

rocketfuel
05-27-2014, 09:19 PM
Can lebron guard speedy point guards for the whole game? His defense looked good last night.

FlashBolt
05-27-2014, 09:32 PM
In an all time first team, I think you would be stupid to not choose someone who is an elite defender/offensive player. Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Shaq.. wouldn't take them over CP3, LeBron, Hakeem, respectively.

Magic is dominant on the offensive end but he has limited scoring abilities and who knows how many of those passes he would have if it were Kwame Brown being his center. Larry Bird was an okay defender but I think LeBron causes way too much problems for any SF defender. As for Hakeem vs Shaq, I feel Hakeem's game was much more well rounded for a superstar assembled starters. He's a much better defender, passer, scorer, and equally as good at rebounding.

LeBron
CP3
Hakeem
Jordan
Duncan

I expect a lot of hate for choosing CP3 but he's the most well rounded PG.

FlashBolt
05-27-2014, 09:33 PM
Can lebron guard speedy point guards for the whole game? His defense looked good last night.

I don't think he can guard them for the WHOLE game. With LeBron, he can certainly guard anyone with elite defense for stretches or parts of the game. It's too physically demanding for him to chase PG's around. No doubt, I think he can stop anyone outside of Durant and Carmelo.

Sactown
05-27-2014, 10:55 PM
Gary Payton
Reggie Miller
LBJ
KG
Shaq

I find the spacing here works with GP and LBJ sharing ball responsiblies, and honestly I'm not super worried with offense as any group of HOFers can put up 100+ but I find a mix of these elite defenders can make any lineup work

FlashBolt
05-27-2014, 11:37 PM
Gary Payton
Reggie Miller
LBJ
KG
Shaq

I find the spacing here works with GP and LBJ sharing ball responsiblies, and honestly I'm not super worried with offense as any group of HOFers can put up 100+ but I find a mix of these elite defenders can make any lineup work

Why Shaq over Hakeem?
Why Reggie?
I can understand GP, KG, and LBJ.

Sactown
05-28-2014, 12:11 AM
Why Shaq over Hakeem?
Why Reggie?
I can understand GP, KG, and LBJ.

Shaq gives you the most dominant post presence is history while Reggie spaces the floor about as well as anyone, and moves off the ball as well as anyone. While still giving you two dominant wing defenders and Shaq helps clog the lane and KG being the biggest defensive presence down low..

I just like the balance of this team

rocketfuel
05-28-2014, 04:15 AM
In an all time first team, I think you would be stupid to not choose someone who is an elite defender/offensive player. Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Shaq.. wouldn't take them over CP3, LeBron, Hakeem, respectively.

Magic is dominant on the offensive end but he has limited scoring abilities and who knows how many of those passes he would have if it were Kwame Brown being his center. Larry Bird was an okay defender but I think LeBron causes way too much problems for any SF defender. As for Hakeem vs Shaq, I feel Hakeem's game was much more well rounded for a superstar assembled starters. He's a much better defender, passer, scorer, and equally as good at rebounding.

LeBron
CP3
Hakeem
Jordan
Duncan

I expect a lot of hate for choosing CP3 but he's the most well rounded PG.

Is CP3 an elite defender? Do you like him better than Gary Payton overall? I'm trying to recall if Payton was a good 3 point shooter...I do remember a few games where he got hot, but can't remember overall.

What do you think of Oscar Robertson's defense?

rocketfuel
05-28-2014, 04:22 AM
Gary Payton
Reggie Miller
LBJ
KG
Shaq

I find the spacing here works with GP and LBJ sharing ball responsiblies, and honestly I'm not super worried with offense as any group of HOFers can put up 100+ but I find a mix of these elite defenders can make any lineup work

I was always intrigued about what a pairing of Reggie Miller with Jordan would look like... an old Ray Allen already punishes defenses....I can't imagine what a prime Reggie Miller would do for teams trying to stop Jordan. or if you have Glen Rice, Reggie Miller and Jordan in one rotation.

I've debated whether it's best to Shaq, Hakeem or Kareem as the center and which power forward matches best with each. With Shaq, his thing is he is so strong he'll just muscle his way in. Hakeem is more mobile and won't compromise your defense. And, I admit that Kareem intrigues me from an offensive standpoint. He can really shoot and if you pair him with a Blake Griffin it would be devastating.

Would any of these work?:

Shaq/Hakeem
Hakeem/David Robinson
Hakeem/Shawn Kemp

Which would be best? With Hakeem playing power forward I just wonder if he can cover some of the faster power forwards; or if you have twin towers of Hakeem and Dvaid Robinson that would be plenty of size and mobility. With Kemp, I always liked his pure athleticism..in his prime he literally could jump out of the gym the way Blake Griffin can.

Pablonovi
05-28-2014, 11:21 AM
I was always intrigued about what a pairing of Reggie Miller with Jordan would look like... an old Ray Allen already punishes defenses....I can't imagine what a prime Reggie Miller would do for teams trying to stop Jordan. or if you have Glen Rice, Reggie Miller and Jordan in one rotation.

I've debated whether it's best to Shaq, Hakeem or Kareem as the center and which power forward matches best with each. With Shaq, his thing is he is so strong he'll just muscle his way in. Hakeem is more mobile and won't compromise your defense. And, I admit that Kareem intrigues me from an offensive standpoint. He can really shoot and if you pair him with a Blake Griffin it would be devastating.

Would any of these work?:

Shaq/Hakeem
Hakeem/David Robinson
Hakeem/Shawn Kemp

Which would be best? With Hakeem playing power forward I just wonder if he can cover some of the faster power forwards; or if you have twin towers of Hakeem and Dvaid Robinson that would be plenty of size and mobility. With Kemp, I always liked his pure athleticism..in his prime he literally could jump out of the gym the way Blake Griffin can.

Hey rocketfuel,
The most intriguing for me would be: DRob/Hakeem - unlimited versatility, mobility and athleticism on both ends.

rocketfuel
05-28-2014, 01:57 PM
Hey rocketfuel,
The most intriguing for me would be: DRob/Hakeem - unlimited versatility, mobility and athleticism on both ends.

Who would you play at center in that tandem? Who's faster? I always thought Hakeem was fast....but Pippen mentioned that he was surprised that D Rob covered such a wide area so fast.

rocketfuel
05-28-2014, 02:00 PM
Watching Ibaka and Westbrook take over a game just with the blocks and steals makes me think that maybe having a shotblocker and a perimeter player that can cause turnovers could really change a game with easy buckets.

What about this super athletic lineup? A lot of defense, hands in your face challenging and speed to run up and down the court:

Russell Westbrook
Jordan
Lebron
Shawn kemp
Hakeem

They can switch a lot and don't have to cross-match the way they would do for players like Magic where the coach would have to hide the player on defense.

Dee_Edge
05-28-2014, 02:32 PM
Opening Day Starting Line Up
PG: Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, Jason Kidd
SG: Micheal Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade
SF: LeBron James, Larry Bird, Scottie Pippen
PF: Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, Dennis Rodman
C: Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaq, Kareem Abdul Jabbar

D-Unit/Rebounding
PG: MJ, Oscar
SG: Scottie, MJ
SF: LBJ
PF: Rodman
C: Dream

3-point unit
PG: (Old) J.Kidd
SG: MJ
SF: Kobe
PF: Bird
C: Dirk

Fast unit
PG: (Young) Kidd
SG: MJ
SF: Kobe
PF: LBJ
C: Rodman

Pablonovi
05-28-2014, 02:41 PM
Who would you play at center in that tandem? Who's faster? I always thought Hakeem was fast....but Pippen mentioned that he was surprised that D Rob covered such a wide area so fast.

Hey rocketfuel,
I don't think it'd really matter. Remember, Hakeem-Sampson worked (and would have continued to work if Ralph's knees hadn't of gone bad). And I'd take DRob over Sampson any day.

Perhaps start both playing outside the deep post; and, as each particular Offensive play develops, one might go deeper while the other goes a little further out - either could hit from there.

Same thing defensively, depending on the match-ups.
DRob WAS an incredible & super-fit athlete. Quick (explosive) and fast.

True Sports Fan
05-28-2014, 02:42 PM
Kwame Brown
Scalbrine
Outlaw
CDR
Mike James

With James and Scalbrine, don't even need a bench

FOBolous
05-28-2014, 04:25 PM
Starting Lineup:

PG - Magic
SG - Jordan
SF - Pippen
PF - Tim Duncan
C - Kareem

2nd Unit:

PG - Stockton
SG - Kobe
SF - Durant
PF - Karl Malone
C - Shaq

Then LeBron and Bird

Both the 1st unit and 2nd Unit is balanced in terms of talent, skill set, and chemistry

3 Alternates: Kidd, Hakeem, Kevin Garnett

Pablonovi
05-28-2014, 04:34 PM
PG: Stockton
SG: Jerry West
SF: Bird
PF: McHale
C: Walton

sub: Rick Barry
Lots of smarts, excellent ball-movement and Teamwork. 3 sharp shooters outside; 2 dynamic scorers inside.
Decent defense.

rocketfuel
05-29-2014, 02:38 AM
Hey rocketfuel,
I don't think it'd really matter. Remember, Hakeem-Sampson worked (and would have continued to work if Ralph's knees hadn't of gone bad). And I'd take DRob over Sampson any day.

Perhaps start both playing outside the deep post; and, as each particular Offensive play develops, one might go deeper while the other goes a little further out - either could hit from there.

Same thing defensively, depending on the match-ups.
DRob WAS an incredible & super-fit athlete. Quick (explosive) and fast.

Which do you think is a more formidable combination:

D Rob/Hakeem
Hakeem/Shawn Kemp

D Rob has size, but does Shawn Kemp cover more ground? I am intrigued by a twin tower though...and Hakeem and D Rob seem to be the only 2 7 footers that can move well and also score well on the offensive side. Could always have Mutombo/Hakeem.

Also, is it better to surround Jordan/Lebron with a shooter like Reggie Miller or a defensive point guard like Russell Westbrook?

Bigbadmoffo
05-29-2014, 03:10 AM
pg Rondo
sg Jordan
Sf Durant
PF Dirk
C Shaq

This to me would be a good fit and maybe there's better players but I'm looking at chemistry. Lebron is better then Durant all around but just having 2 7ft shooters with great defense and play making around them would own.

Bigbadmoffo
05-29-2014, 03:12 AM
Dream team should not be American in this day and age:p but if you insist I would switch Dirk for Garnett.

Pablonovi
05-29-2014, 12:16 PM
Which do you think is a more formidable combination:

D Rob/Hakeem
Hakeem/Shawn Kemp

D Rob has size, but does Shawn Kemp cover more ground? I am intrigued by a twin tower though...and Hakeem and D Rob seem to be the only 2 7 footers that can move well and also score well on the offensive side. Could always have Mutombo/Hakeem.

Also, is it better to surround Jordan/Lebron with a shooter like Reggie Miller or a defensive point guard like Russell Westbrook?

Hey rocketfuel,
You some kind of troublemaker? (hehe)
You wanna make me choose between DRob and Kemp?
Well, if I have to, I'll go DRob (Kemp might have been a bit more intense on D; but DRob was just an "ultimate" athlete" - a prime DRob paired with Hakeem would truly be something to behold. (I'd also rather not; but if you force me ... DRob over Mutombo because DRob's more complete/versatile).

Then you want more trouble forcing me to choose between Reggie and Westy?
Well, in most cases I'd have to choose "Game 4 vs S.A." Westy - I don't know if he's ever been more wickedly-quick/explosive/all-out dynamite on both sides of the ball. I don't know if I've even seen ANYBODY play like that before?

BUT, on a team with LeBron at PG; I'd have to bring Westy in as his sub. And on a team with MJ at the SG; I'd have to bring Reggie in as HIS sub. So there !

Overall, I'd bring all of them in as subs: Kemp, Mutombo, Reggie & Westy. Not a bad "starting team" (or at least 4/5ths of one) to have coming in off the bench!

Pablonovi
05-29-2014, 12:23 PM
Hey rocketfuel,
Along the same lines of "Twin Towers" I've often toyed with the idea of which of the older-times All-Time Centers I'd go "Twin Towers" with.

How about:
Center: Wilt (ultimate dominance in the paint against all comers, offensively and defensively)
PF: KAJ (keep him at 10 or so feet; with that Ultimate, Unique Weapon, The Unstoppable Sky Hook)

Wilt would block fast-break shots like but better than LeBron (he had absolutely blazing full-court speed!)
KAJ would pass the living day-lights out of the ball anytime the Sky Hook wasn't called for.
Wilt would beast and feast with KAJ's pinpoint (from way up high) passing.
KAJ would beast and feast being freed up from the heaviest of the bumping and grinding down low.

If the two greatest PFs ever are considered to be: T.D. & K. Malone; neither could stop KAJ's Sky Hook; and neither would be fast enough to dominate him offensively. Advantage KAJ.

Those two would utterly DOMINATE any other set of bigs, PERIOD.

Pablonovi
06-05-2014, 04:12 PM
The following is a post I wrote back on Aug 19, 2013 *. Re-reading it, I wouldn't change a thing; except I'd go ahead and list Wilt as my starting Center (with my Bill Walton comments as a footnote.)

Hey guys/gals,
I'm impressed with the quality in this thread of both the suggested teams and the dignity of the back-and-forth subsequent discussion.

My All-Time Starting 5 (+7)
PG: Magic (best offensive glue-guy; teammate, smarts)
SG: MJ (of the great-offensive guards, he's the best defensively; #1killer, smarts)
SF: LeBron (best two-way multi-positional player; teammate, smarts)
PF: KAJ (most unstoppable shot, I'd keep him just outside the lane for the "C"; teammate, smarts)
C: Bill Walton (best offensive player amongst the all-time best defensive centers; best defensive player amongst the all-time offensive centers; PLUS Magic-Bird level of team-work and smarts).
Ppg: Magic + Walton: 10 @; MJ, LeBron, KAJ: 20@ = 80 ppg for 1st Unit
Mpg: 30@
(if Walton is disqualified due to having had only one great year, THEN: Wilt is here: 20ppg while Magic doesn't score)

back-ups (small step-down from first-team):
PG: Stockton (mini-Magic; smallest ego)
SG: Kobe (mini-MJ; best footwork)
SF: Bird (#2 glue-guy; best passing big-man; shot-range)
PF: Hakeem (complete; I'd keep him just outside the lane to make room for the "C")
C: Wilt (greatest NBA athlete; there was nothing he couldn't do well; except FTs)
Ppg: Stockton: 0; Kobe + Bird + Hakeem + Wilt: 10@ ... 40 ppg for 2nd Unit
Mpg: 15@

Mostly-Offensive Match-Up "Nightmares":
C: Shaq (maxi-Wilt; wear down opponents)
G: West (unlimited range; good D)
Ppg: 5@
Mpg: 7.5@

N.B. If Walton is disqualified, all C's move up and Duncan joins team.
Defense: C/PF: Duncan (complete, self-less, great passing teammate)
Ppg: 3 (West would go from 5 to 7)
Mpg: 7.5
- - - -- -
* Post #61; LINK: http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?562141-What-Would-be-the-BEST-Starting-5-ever/page2

Pablonovi
06-05-2014, 04:38 PM
ALL-Decade Teams: 1960's

Hey guys (and gals?),
To keep this going/interesting and add a little extra spice; how about All-Decade Teams:
1960's:
PG: Oscar Robertson (9)
SG: Jerry West (8)
SF: Elgin Baylor (9)
PF/C: Bill Russell (9) (PR on Offense, C on Defense)
C/PF: Wilt Chamberlain (9) (C on Offense, PF on Defense)
subs:
PG: Hal Greer (8)
SG: John Havlicek (4)
SF: Bob Pettit (6)
PF: Jerry Lucas (5)
C: Willis Reed (3)

Bob Cousy (4)
Rick Barry (2)
Sam Jones (3)
Tommy Heinsohn (4)


This might be the best Starting-5 of any decade!

N.B. Number in parenthesis = All-NBA 1st-Team + 2nd-Team Selections
I dropped Gus Johnson off this list

Pablonovi
06-05-2014, 04:49 PM
ALL-Decade Teams: 1970's

PLEASE NOTE: I've essentially re-done this to more-fully integrate the ABA-ers of the 1970's.
[SEE: Post #143 below]

ALL-Decade Teams: 1970's NBA (mostly)
PG: Nate Tiny Archibald (4)
SG: Walt Frazier (6)
SF: Dr. Julius Erving (7, including ABA)
PF: Elvin Hayes (6)
C: Kareem Abdul Jabbar (9)
subs:
Gs: Jerry West (4), Rick Barry (4), Pistol Pete Maravich (4), George Gervin (3), Paul Westphal (3)
Big Men: Spencer Haywood (4), Dave Cowens (3)

N.B. Number in parenthesis = All-NBA 1st-Team + 2nd-Team Selections

Pablonovi
06-05-2014, 05:04 PM
ALL-Decade Teams: 1980's
PG Magic Johnson (9)
SG: Isiah Thomas (7)
SF: Larry Bird (9)
PF: KAJ (7)
C: Moses Malone (9)
subs
Gs: MJ (4), George Gervin (4), Sidney Moncreif (5)
Fs: Alex English (6), Dr J. (5), Bernard King (4), Dominique Wilkins (4)
Cs: Hakeem Olajuwon (4), Robert Parish (4)

N.B. Number in parenthesis = All-NBA 1st-Team + 2nd-Team + 3rd-Team Selections

Pablonovi
06-05-2014, 05:32 PM
ALL-Decade Teams: 1990's
PG: John Stockton (6)
SG: Michael Jordan (7)
SF: Charles Barkley (6)
PF: Karl Malone (10)
C: David Robinson (6)
subs
PG: Gary Payton (5), Kevin Johnson (3)
SG: Tim Hardaway (4), Mitch Richmond (3)
SF: Scottie Pippen (5), Grant Hill (4)
PF: Hakeem Olawuon (5), Shawn Kemp (3)
C: Patrick Ewiing (5), Shaquille O'Neal (3)

N.B. Number in parenthesis = All-NBA 1st-Team + 2nd-Team Selections

Pablonovi
06-05-2014, 05:46 PM
ALL-Decade Teams: 2000's
PG: Jason Kidd (5)
SG: Kobe Bryant (9)
SF: LeBron James (5)
PF: Tim Duncan (10)
C: Shaquille O'Neal (7)
subs
PG: Allen Iverson (5), Steve Nash (4)
SG: Tracy McGrady (5), Dwyane Wade (3)
Fs: Dirk Nowitzki (7), Amare' Stoudemire (3), Chris Webber (3)
C: Kevin Garnett (7), Ben Wallace (3)

N.B. Number in parenthesis = All-NBA 1st-Team + 2nd-Team Selections

Pablonovi
06-05-2014, 06:01 PM
ALL-Decade Teams: 2010's (1st Half-Decade ONLY)
PG: Chris Paul (3)
SG: Kobe Bryant (4)
SF: LeBron James (5)
PF: Kevin Durant (5)
C: Dwight Howard (4)
subs
Gs: Tony Parker (3), Russell Westbrook (3), Dwyane Wade (2)
Bigs: Blake Griffin (3), Carmelo Anthony (2), Kevin Love (2), Dirk Nowitski (2), Amare Stoudemire (2)

N.B. Number in parenthesis = All-NBA 1st-Team + 2nd-Team Selections
- - -- - -
Honorable Mentions (1 All-NBA 1st-Team Selection)
Tim Duncan
James Harden
Joakim Noah
Derrick Rose

Honorable Mentions (1 All-NBA 2nd-Team Selection)
Andrew Bynum
Stephen Curry
Marc Gasol
Pau Gasol
Steve Nash
Deron Williams

Pablonovi
06-05-2014, 07:50 PM
ALL-Decade Teams: ABA (1968-1976 = 9 Years)

G: Mack Calvin (4),
G: Louie Dampier (4)
F: Julius Erving (5),
F: Rick Barry (5)
C: Artis Gilmore (5)
subs
Gs: Donnie Freeman (4), Ralph Simpson (4), Jimmy Jones (3) Larry Jones (3)
Fs: George McGinnis (3), Roger Brown (3)
Cs: Dan Issel (5), Mel Daniels (5)

OVERALL LIST
Artis Gilmore 5
Dan Issel 5
Julius Erving 5
Mel Daniels 5
Mack Calvin 4
Louie Dampier 4
Donnie Freeman 4
Rick Barry 4
Ralph Simpson 3
George McGinnis 3
Jimmy Jones 3
Roger Brown 3
Larry Jones 3

Pablonovi
06-05-2014, 07:51 PM
Combined ALL-ERA Teams: Pre-1960 (NBL 1938-1949; & NBA (BAA) 1947-1959)

Rank LEAGUE .......... NAME COMBINED SELECTIONS (1st-Team + 2nd-Team)
N.B. "TWO" = Selections In Both Leagues

..1 NBA Schayes, Dolph (10)
- - - - -
- - - - -
..2 TWO Mikan, George (8)
..3 NBA Cousy, Bob (8)
..4 NBL Edwards, Leroy (8)
- - - - -
..5 TWO Davies, Bob (7)
..6 NBL McDermott, Robert (7)
..7 NBL Shipp, Charley (7)
- - - - -
..8 TWO Jeannette, Buddy (6)
..9 NBA Sharman, Bill (6)
- - - - -
10 TWO Cervi, Al (5)
11 TWO Pollard, Jim (5)
12 NBA Arizin, Paul (5)
13 TWO Dancker, Edward (5)
14 NBA Johnston, Neil (5)
15 NBA Martin, Slater (5)
16 NBA Pettit, Bob (5)
- - - - -
17 NBL Bush, Gerard (4)
18 NBL Calihan, Robert (4)
19 NBA Fulks, Joe (4)
20 NBA Macauley, Ed (4)
21 NBA Mikkelsen, Vern (4)
22 NBL Ozburn, Jack (4)
23 NBA Zaslofsky, Max (4)

N.B. Numbers in parentheses are the combined number of Selections to the:
ALL-NBL 1st-Teams & 2nd-Teams PLUS ALL-NBA (BAA) 1st-Teams & 2nd-Teams

Pablonovi
06-05-2014, 08:22 PM
ALL-Decade Teams: 1970's (COMBINED: NBA + ABA)

PG: Nate "Tiny" Archibald (4)
SG: John Havlicek (7)
F: Rick Barry (8)
F: Dr. Julius Erving (7),
C: Kareem Abdul Jabbar (9)
subs:
Gs: Walt Frazier (6), George Gervin (5), Jerry West (4)
Fs: Elvin Hayes (6), Spencer Haywood (5), George McGinnis (5)
Cs: Artis Gilmore (5), Dan Issel (5), Mel Daniels (5)

Honorable Mention:
Mack Calvin (4)
Louie Dampier (4)
Donnie Freeman (4)
Pete Maravich (4)

N.B. Number in parenthesis = COMBINED ALL-NBA & All-ABA 1st-Team + 2nd-Team Selections

rocketfuel
06-07-2014, 12:18 AM
Hey rocketfuel,
You some kind of troublemaker? (hehe)
You wanna make me choose between DRob and Kemp?
Well, if I have to, I'll go DRob (Kemp might have been a bit more intense on D; but DRob was just an "ultimate" athlete" - a prime DRob paired with Hakeem would truly be something to behold. (I'd also rather not; but if you force me ... DRob over Mutombo because DRob's more complete/versatile).

Then you want more trouble forcing me to choose between Reggie and Westy?
Well, in most cases I'd have to choose "Game 4 vs S.A." Westy - I don't know if he's ever been more wickedly-quick/explosive/all-out dynamite on both sides of the ball. I don't know if I've even seen ANYBODY play like that before?

BUT, on a team with LeBron at PG; I'd have to bring Westy in as his sub. And on a team with MJ at the SG; I'd have to bring Reggie in as HIS sub. So there !

Overall, I'd bring all of them in as subs: Kemp, Mutombo, Reggie & Westy. Not a bad "starting team" (or at least 4/5ths of one) to have coming in off the bench!

I think with:

Westbrook
Jordan
Lebron or Pippen
Shawn Kemp
Hakeem

You would have a freakishly explosive and athletic team that can run teams off the court, jump out of the gym and force turnovers. You're right. Westbrook was really impressive in that game 4. It seemed like he kept forcing turnover after turnover and this wasn't against some crap team that couldn't execute...this was against the well-orchestrated we play with precision Spurs. I can just imagine this unit swarming on the ball, running up and down the court and exploding to the basket for some monster dunks. Now, for some shooting, explosive punch you could also throw in a unit that looks like this:

Jordan
Reggie Miller
Glenn Rice
Blake Griffin
Kareem Abdul Jabar

A great slasher in Joran, two devastating 3 point shooters that can take a 10 point lead and turn it into a 20 point lead in just 2 minutes, an explosive power forward to attack the rim and a sure handed center that you can throw the ball to when all else fails and who can also shoot from many areas of the floor. When I looked at some of the earlier Kareem, it was surprising how well he ran the break and he can do more than just that skyhook!

I think for the twin towers thing.... A Drob/Hakeem is big and athletic enough that they can rotate and cover a lot of ground. I wanted to have a Shaq twin towers because he can bully people but wondered if on defense he can cover ground...seeing how a lot of teams are using stretch 4s and annoying power forwards/centers that move around and shoot 3s. One name I noticed hasn't been mentioned enough is Duncan. Do you think a prime Duncan has the footspeed on defense and offense for the ultimate team---I envision an ultimate team to be freakishly fast and athletic.

rocketfuel
06-07-2014, 12:24 AM
ALL-Decade Teams: 2010's (1st Half-Decade ONLY)
PG: Chris Paul (3)
SG: Kobe Bryant (4)
SF: LeBron James (5)
PF: Kevin Durant (5)
C: Dwight Howard (4)
subs
Gs: Tony Parker (3), Russell Westbrook (3), Dwyane Wade (2)
Bigs: Blake Griffin (3), Carmelo Anthony (2), Kevin Love (2), Dirk Nowitski (2), Amare Stoudemire (2)

N.B. Number in parenthesis = All-NBA 1st-Team + 2nd-Team Selections
- - -- - -
Honorable Mentions (1 All-NBA 1st-Team Selection)
Tim Duncan
James Harden
Joakim Noah
Derrick Rose

Honorable Mentions (1 All-NBA 2nd-Team Selection)
Andrew Bynum
Stephen Curry
Marc Gasol
Pau Gasol
Steve Nash
Deron Williams



Good job on the all decade teams....that's an interesting food for thought. How do you evaluate Oscar Robertson's game? What did you think of his defense?

My take is that even though the 3 point shot wasn't invented at the time he was playing, he would have been great at it if it was and he had been coached to do it----because he was such a terrific shooter for everywhere else on the court. Also in making the ultimate team, the point guard is one of the hardest to come up with because there's always some weakness at that position. A lot of the great point guards are great passers, but might be liability on defense: Magic, Nash.... or not great 3 point shooters.... or ok scorers... Westbrook was one that I thought was freakishly athletic and disruptive on defense while still pretty dominant on offense--though I wish he could pass like Nash. And it's been a while since I've watched Gary Payton so I can't remember who's a better player Gary Payton or Russell Westbrook--but my gut tells me that Westbrook is way more athletic... I haven't seen a point guard explode to the rim like that or jump into the passing lane in a blur to steal consecutive steals to take over a game.

Quinnsanity
06-07-2014, 04:08 AM
Starting 5:

Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
LeBron James
Tim Duncan
Hakeem Olajuwon

Bench:

Chris Paul
Elgin Baylor
Larry Bird
Scottie Pippen
Dirk Nowitzki
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Bill Walton

Done and done. It's not about having the best team, it's about having the right one. Hakeem is worse than Kareem, but I'm starting him because of his defense, which I'd prefer in the starting unit. I want chemistry, which is why Kobe, Oscar and a few others don't make the cut. I want diversity, which is why Dirk makes it over Barkley/Malone (much harder to defend Dirk's shot with all of these HOFers on the team). I want passing, which is why Walton gets the edge over Russell. I don't need Shaq's dominance with this group. Starting five relies on Magic and LeBron's playmaking to open things up for MJ. The twin towers can take care of themselves. They're mainly around for defense. The bench plays big with Paul running the point, Pippen and Bird on the wings and Walton and Kareem as the bigs. So much passing, such excellent defense. Baylor is my wildcard scorer (the place I'd give Kobe if I trusted him on this sort of team), Dirk is my wildcard matchup nightmare.

rocketfuel
06-07-2014, 04:24 AM
Just out of curiosity, why do you think you wouldn't have chemistry with Oscar?

Pablonovi
06-07-2014, 11:04 AM
Good job on the all decade teams....that's an interesting food for thought. How do you evaluate Oscar Robertson's game? What did you think of his defense?

My take is that even though the 3 point shot wasn't invented at the time he was playing, he would have been great at it if it was and he had been coached to do it----because he was such a terrific shooter for everywhere else on the court. Also in making the ultimate team, the point guard is one of the hardest to come up with because there's always some weakness at that position. A lot of the great point guards are great passers, but might be liability on defense: Magic, Nash.... or not great 3 point shooters.... or ok scorers... Westbrook was one that I thought was freakishly athletic and disruptive on defense while still pretty dominant on offense--though I wish he could pass like Nash. And it's been a while since I've watched Gary Payton so I can't remember who's a better player Gary Payton or Russell Westbrook--but my gut tells me that Westbrook is way more athletic... I haven't seen a point guard explode to the rim like that or jump into the passing lane in a blur to steal consecutive steals to take over a game.

All-Decade Teams (Super-Instructive/Useful); West, "O", Payton & Westy (Westbrook)

Hey rocketfuel,
Thanx muchly for the compliment.
btw, each of those ALL-NBA, ALL-ABA, ALL-NBL/BAA/NBA: 1st-Teams & 2nd-Teams took me about an hour to "process" - it was a labor of love. I did it for myself & for everybody else: it IS so informative to have such a compilation of them in "one place".

Each time I look at those ALL-DECADE Lists, it strikes me as a super-small-sized encapsulation of each of those decades. One may or may not remember * which Teams dominated; but sure WILL remember which players did (over 10-year chunks of history).

Having watched the complete careers of the All-Time Greats from the 60's (Wilt, West-Baylor, "O", Russell, and more than half of Pettit's) I've been comparing them to each other, and everybody since.

I have always ranked: West, "O" and Baylor just about even; and pretty much change my mind between West & O everytime I have to pick an order. West's D was definitely better than Oscar's; not so much because Oscar was weak; but West's was more consistently intense. Between the two, on a Team For The Ages; I'd take West if I needed unlimited range (he could hit at least as good as such as today's Curry) & a bit more D; I'd take "O" if I needed a bit more passing & rebounds from the guard position. imo, West DID have more range than "O"; or, put a slightly different way, West more consistently took & made deep(er) shots. But you can't go wrong with "O" because he was so multi-skilled; and as you guess, given an existing 3-pt shot; no doubt he would have been at least League-average efficiency at it.

With Westbrook for sure our sample size is a bit small so far. But my gut tells me that he'll end up being widely-regarded as THE most explosive PG (and combo PG-SG) ever - I can't picture any of the other All-Time PG's (or combos) having his insane speed - particularly in the WCF, where I was "studying" him to try to ascertain just how "unique" that speed is - he seemed to have a gear consistently (on BOTH ends of the court) that I don't believe anybody else has ever had before this.

They called GP "the Glove" because his D was excellent for all of a Decade - one can never go wrong with him on D. However, I bet Westy, IF he can keep this new-level of Defensive-intensity up, will replace him in the All-Time Annals of Defensively Great Guards. I call his speed, "Demon Speed"!

* Seeing the ALL-DECADE Lists DOES bring up an almost instant-recall of how the best Teams did in each of those 10-Year periods. Even for the pre-1960's, I've read/studied EXTENSIVELY (in addition to, starting in the latest of the 1950's, having had my dad continually informing me of what had gone on before I was old enough to understand the game. He had watched/read everything that was available about Mikan & his era.)

Pablonovi
06-07-2014, 11:17 AM
Just out of curiosity, why do you think you wouldn't have chemistry with Oscar?

The Royals' Big "O" Dominated For Them To Compete; The Bucks' "O" Was Pure TEAMmate
Hey rocketfuel,
I know you were asking this of Quinnsanity; but here's MY thoughts.
It was widely-publicized way back then, that the Big "O", before he had played a second in the NBA, worked out with his future team: The Cincinnatti Royals. The Royals had, at that time, THE best player in the League: Jack Twyman. In those very first work-outs Oscar just shredded Twyman (& the rest of the team).

btw, When MJ first scrimmaged with the Bulls, it was said by the other players that he made them feel like High School-ers because he was so much better than all of them. THIS was what the Royals' players, including the Great Jack Twyman, had said about "O". His "handles" were never-before-seen. He led his team in "everything" from game 1. He averaged a Triple-Double for his combined first 5-Years! Even on the down-side of his career, when he joined the 3rd-year expansion team Mil. Bucks, he was clearly the missing-piece to facilitate that KAJ-led team to the Chip. (Lew Alcindor changed his name to KAJ after winning the Chip).

At first glance it might be hard to judge what "O" would have done on a balanced team. With the Royals (where only Jerry Lucas was a bonafide All-Star), for them to compete vs the All-Star Celtics & Wilt's teams, "O" had to dominate. But, when he joined the Bucks, he did NOT dominate at all. So, given that when he finally had another Great Player to play with, he was an ultimate-TEAMmate; I don't doubt that he would play a similar role of a "Team For The Ages" squad.

rocketfuel
06-07-2014, 05:13 PM
The Royals' Big "O" Dominated For Them To Compete; The Bucks' "O" Was Pure TEAMmate
Hey rocketfuel,
I know you were asking this of Quinnsanity; but here's MY thoughts.
It was widely-publicized way back then, that the Big "O", before he had played a second in the NBA, worked out with his future team: The Cincinnatti Royals. The Royals had, at that time, THE best player in the League: Jack Twyman. In those very first work-outs Oscar just shredded Twyman (& the rest of the team).

btw, When MJ first scrimmaged with the Bulls, it was said by the other players that he made them feel like High School-ers because he was so much better than all of them. THIS was what the Royals' players, including the Great Jack Twyman, had said about "O". His "handles" were never-before-seen. He led his team in "everything" from game 1. He averaged a Triple-Double for his combined first 5-Years! Even on the down-side of his career, when he joined the 3rd-year expansion team Mil. Bucks, he was clearly the missing-piece to facilitate that KAJ-led team to the Chip. (Lew Alcindor changed his name to KAJ after winning the Chip).

At first glance it might be hard to judge what "O" would have done on a balanced team. With the Royals (where only Jerry Lucas was a bonafide All-Star), for them to compete vs the All-Star Celtics & Wilt's teams, "O" had to dominate. But, when he joined the Bucks, he did NOT dominate at all. So, given that when he finally had another Great Player to play with, he was an ultimate-TEAMmate; I don't doubt that he would play a similar role of a "Team For The Ages" squad.

Good job on all the research for the big O and the Team of ages posts above. It makes for an interesting read that you have analysis to go with your opinions.

When I look at the old timers, a few stand out as being able to thrive now against the current crop who are obviously very athletic. O's numbers tell me that he was so much more gifted than the other guys that he easily did that on a nightly basis. It's too bad that he didn't stay with Kareem much longer because the clips of them together is very impressive. It's high octane and teams look confused having to stop both. I've wondered what would happen if you have the Big O, MJ and Lebron on the same team.

I didn't understand why Westbrook was recruited by the Olympic team until I started to watch games specifically for him and noticed how explosive he is. He's not just fast, his footwork is terrific. He seems able to lock down on the speediest players. Not to mention he can explode to the rim and jump like an athletic shooting guard.

Pablonovi
06-07-2014, 05:36 PM
Good job on all the research for the big O and the Team of ages posts above. It makes for an interesting read that you have analysis to go with your opinions.

When I look at the old timers, a few stand out as being able to thrive now against the current crop who are obviously very athletic. O's numbers tell me that he was so much more gifted than the other guys that he easily did that on a nightly basis. It's too bad that he didn't stay with Kareem much longer because the clips of them together is very impressive. It's high octane and teams look confused having to stop both. I've wondered what would happen if you have the Big O, MJ and Lebron on the same team.

I didn't understand why Westbrook was recruited by the Olympic team until I started to watch games specifically for him and noticed how explosive he is. He's not just fast, his footwork is terrific. He seems able to lock down on the speediest players. Not to mention he can explode to the rim and jump like an athletic shooting guard.

Hey rocketfuel,
Thanx for the compliments, you are most kind.
Usually when I address the past generally and the past Greatest Players & Teams, it is from memory (i.e. I rarely have to re-research that stuff). They burned their way into my memory banks back then because I "couldn't fight the feeling", the glory.

Big "O": Your right; in any era he would, at worst, have been either All-NBA 1st-Team or All-NBA 2nd-Team for 10 full years. He not only had the skills, but he was BIG and POWERFUL for a guard.

"O", MJ & LeBron: Add any two average-quality NBA Big Men; and NOBODY BEATS THAT TEAM. The ball-movement would have been a sheer blur. The two big guys would look like All-Stars. The D would be impenetrable. The three of them could literally take turns having either 40 points or 20 assists; plus 8+ rebs @.

Westy: I'm "claiming 1st" to call him as next year's Reg. Season MVP. (I did so earlier in these playoffs.)
Big deal, I know, hehe.

rocketfuel
06-08-2014, 01:09 AM
Hey rocketfuel,
Thanx for the compliments, you are most kind.
Usually when I address the past generally and the past Greatest Players & Teams, it is from memory (i.e. I rarely have to re-research that stuff). They burned their way into my memory banks back then because I "couldn't fight the feeling", the glory.

Big "O": Your right; in any era he would, at worst, have been either All-NBA 1st-Team or All-NBA 2nd-Team for 10 full years. He not only had the skills, but he was BIG and POWERFUL for a guard.

"O", MJ & LeBron: Add any two average-quality NBA Big Men; and NOBODY BEATS THAT TEAM. The ball-movement would have been a sheer blur. The two big guys would look like All-Stars. The D would be impenetrable. The three of them could literally take turns having either 40 points or 20 assists; plus 8+ rebs @.

Westy: I'm "claiming 1st" to call him as next year's Reg. Season MVP. (I did so earlier in these playoffs.)
Big deal, I know, hehe.

How do you think the Big O would fare as a defender in today's game? Let's say he's given the advantage of the best coaching by the likes of Poppovich's or Phil Jackson's staff. Which big men would you pair with Big O, Jordan, Lebron for the best two way attack?

What do you think would be the best fast break unit to put together as the second unit?

Pablonovi
06-08-2014, 03:32 AM
How do you think the Big O would fare as a defender in today's game? Let's say he's given the advantage of the best coaching by the likes of Poppovich's or Phil Jackson's staff. Which big men would you pair with Big O, Jordan, Lebron for the best two way attack?

What do you think would be the best fast break unit to put together as the second unit?

"O"-MJ-LBJ-KAJ-Wilt PLUS Magic-West-DrJ-Hakeem-DRob: Score: 180-90 every game
Hey rocketfuel,
Let's see if I got this straight?
You are "forcing me" to build a team around "O", MJ & LBJ AND I get to pick the two Big Men???

What, you want to feed my every all-time fantasy? Really?
OK, I'm game:

PG/SF: "O"+LBJ
SG: MJ
PF: KAJ
C: Wilt

This starting unit plays 36 minutes per game on the floor TOGETHER. They each average 30 ppg, scoring 150 points in the equivalent of 3 quarters; while the opposing team doesn't smell 80 points.
You wouldn't be exaggerating much by saying, "Nobody stops this team & nobody scores on this team!"

For the remaining 12 minutes per game, I go with:
PG: Westy (Russell Westbrook) for his demon speed (on both ends of the floor)
If I can't have Westy because he's "disqualified" for not having played enough years yet; I go with:
PG Magic (the All-Time Ultimate Fast-Break Weapon)

SG: West (Jerry) for his virtually unlimited range, amazing court-vision & passing (& nasty D). If the break doesn't end up at the rim, the ball's dumped to him for 3!

SF: Dr J (the ABA version: when he rebounded and saw no teammates ahead of him up the floor, he regularly single-handedly beat all 5 players on the opposing team to the other basket, often dribbling BETWEEN HIS LEGS as he advanced the ball without losing speed or control. He was the ultimate fast-break wing).

PF: Hakeem Olajuwon
C: DRob

These two Bigs are Ultimate Athletes - they'd be able to endlessly run & finish fast-breaks for 12 minutes a game. And their D was impeccable.

This "Back-Up 5" would physically "run into the ground" any other 5 in the history of the planet (except our Starting 5; who they'd never have to face, except in our "All-Star Game" practices.

Typical Box Score: Our Starting 5 =150pts; Our Back-Up 5 = 30 points
Average Final Score: "Pablo's All-Time Team":180 - 90 (the World's "Remaining All-Time Stars")

rocketfuel
06-08-2014, 04:14 AM
Westy won't get disqualified for the number of years. We just want to put the best talent out there. Your backup bigs almost seem like they are way faster than your starters. :) Do you think KAJ has the footspeed to cover at power forward?

I don't even think your main units will play more than 20 minutes a night... they'd probably build a 25 minute lead by half time... The 92 Dream Team was the best...but even that one wasn't perfect. Barkely wouldn't be my #1 choice at power forward.... Bird/Magic were in the twilight of their years.

Do you think the Big O can play like GP on the defensive end in the modern era? I like that all 5 positions are versatile....watching the Spurs and Heat...it helps when teams have guys that are versatile. Btw, the passing would be phenomenal between Big O, Jordan and Lebron...it would literally be like watching a Monet every time down the court.

Pablonovi
06-08-2014, 04:34 AM
Westy won't get disqualified for the number of years. We just want to put the best talent out there. Your backup bigs almost seem like they are way faster than your starters. :) Do you think KAJ has the footspeed to cover at power forward?

I don't even think your main units will play more than 20 minutes a night... they'd probably build a 25 minute lead by half time... The 92 Dream Team was the best...but even that one wasn't perfect. Barkely wouldn't be my #1 choice at power forward.... Bird/Magic were in the twilight of their years.

Do you think the Big O can play like GP on the defensive end in the modern era? I like that all 5 positions are versatile....watching the Spurs and Heat...it helps when teams have guys that are versatile. Btw, the passing would be phenomenal between Big O, Jordan and Lebron...it would literally be like watching a Monet every time down the court.

Hey rocketfuel,
Big "O" wasn't noted for his D; it was adequate, not great. Compared to "my" other player's D, "O" would be below elite; as I believe he would be in today's game (his "game's" only sub-elite aspect).


Yes "O"-MJ-LBJ, as I said, would take turns picking up 20 assists..
KAJ had the footspeed to cover POWER Forwards who, after all are not known for nor generally required to have blazing speed. KAJ during his PEAK ran the break. He was agile & quick. He'd have more problems strength-wise (against the burliest of opposing PFs) than speed-wise; but that's why I've got Wilt behind him at Center!

I loved Barkley's "fight"; but I'd take a number of guys over him at PF, including TD, Garnett, & K.Malone (perhaps most PSD-ers would disagree here about Karl). Also, I'd readily plug in some versatile Centers in at PF (Hakeem, at times DRob, others).

Yes, my back-up bigs ARE faster than KAJ (not than Wilt - who used to beat the PGs down the court on the break). BUT, you specifically "required" a fast-break-specialist back-up team ... so that's why I gave you, no?

I don't care about my starters building huge leads: I'm going "Harlem Globetrotters" vs the Washington Generals. Max scoring for max entertainment value - every game a wildly-exciting blow-out.

P.S. Born & raised just outside of NYC in New Jersey, I got to "experience" (Wilt &) the Harlem Globetrotters a few times LIVE. An Unforgettable experience. If you didn't already love Pro-ball; you left the arena a RABIN fan! I already loved it; but their showmanship blew me (and my dad) away. It was all laughs and screams!

emman03
06-08-2014, 05:31 AM
starters:
Shaq/TD/LBJ/MJ/D-Wade
bench:
Hakeem/KG/Bird/Kobe/Magic
Kareem/Dirk/Pippen/Clyde/Iverson

notable:

PG: CP3/D-Rose
SG: T-mac/Carter
SF: KD/D-Wilkins
PF: Barkley/Malone
C: Bill/Wilt/D-Robinson

Pablonovi
06-08-2014, 12:07 PM
starters:
Shaq/TD/LBJ/MJ/D-Wade
bench:
Hakeem/KG/Bird/Kobe/Magic
Kareem/Dirk/Pippen/Clyde/Iverson

notable:

PG: CP3/D-Rose
SG: T-mac/Carter
SF: KD/D-Wilkins
PF: Barkley/Malone
C: Bill/Wilt/D-Robinson

Hey emman03,
Not enough Greats on your team *

* hehe (You only list what 26?)

SLY WILLIAMS
06-08-2014, 06:09 PM
I'd start:

Stockton (Passing/Shooting)
Jordan
Lebron
Bird
Kareem

Reserves
Magic
Kobe
Durant
Duncan
Shaq

rocketfuel
06-08-2014, 06:39 PM
Hey rocketfuel,
Big "O" wasn't noted for his D; it was adequate, not great. Compared to "my" other player's D, "O" would be below elite; as I believe he would be in today's game (his "game's" only sub-elite aspect).


Yes "O"-MJ-LBJ, as I said, would take turns picking up 20 assists..
KAJ had the footspeed to cover POWER Forwards who, after all are not known for nor generally required to have blazing speed. KAJ during his PEAK ran the break. He was agile & quick. He'd have more problems strength-wise (against the burliest of opposing PFs) than speed-wise; but that's why I've got Wilt behind him at Center!

I loved Barkley's "fight"; but I'd take a number of guys over him at PF, including TD, Garnett, & K.Malone (perhaps most PSD-ers would disagree here about Karl). Also, I'd readily plug in some versatile Centers in at PF (Hakeem, at times DRob, others).

Yes, my back-up bigs ARE faster than KAJ (not than Wilt - who used to beat the PGs down the court on the break). BUT, you specifically "required" a fast-break-specialist back-up team ... so that's why I gave you, no?

I don't care about my starters building huge leads: I'm going "Harlem Globetrotters" vs the Washington Generals. Max scoring for max entertainment value - every game a wildly-exciting blow-out.

P.S. Born & raised just outside of NYC in New Jersey, I got to "experience" (Wilt &) the Harlem Globetrotters a few times LIVE. An Unforgettable experience. If you didn't already love Pro-ball; you left the arena a RABIN fan! I already loved it; but their showmanship blew me (and my dad) away. It was all laughs and screams!

Hmmm. Well, I guess that starter lineup would be better off with Westbrook instead of the Big O because of the D... with Lebron and Jordan there's already plenty of offense and Westbrook's disruptive d goes well with Jordan and Lebron.

What do you think of Duncan's footspeed? Is it better off to go with an athletic center like D Robinson or Hakeem at power forward or with one of the greatest power forwards that is 7 foot tall in Duncan... or probably the most athletic power forwards in Kemp (at his prime, not the fat one).

rocketfuel
06-08-2014, 06:41 PM
The could've been team...if we take guys that were brilliant for a short time, but not enough to have a hall of fame career....and just put them there at their very peak:

Ralph Sampson
Shawn Kemp
Tmac
Grant Hill
Penny Hardaway

rocketfuel
06-08-2014, 06:42 PM
Explosive subs who are great scorers to put on that 3rd unit:

Iverson
Dominique Wilkens
Blake Griffin
Glenn Rice
Ray Allen

Pablonovi
06-08-2014, 07:13 PM
Explosive subs who are great scorers to put on that 3rd unit:

Iverson
Dominique Wilkens
Blake Griffin
Glenn Rice
Ray Allen

Hey rocketfuel,
P.S. That's Wilkins (with an "I") as opposed to say, Lenny Wilkens (the great guard & All-Time Coach)

Unfortunately, that 3rd unit ain't gonna get any minutes! hehe (too many monsters taking all the available minutes - but they COULD intimidate the other team's bench by sitting and staring.)

rocketfuel
06-17-2015, 09:50 PM
Most dominating defensive unit

Westbrook
Jordan
Pippen or Lebron
Garnett
Hakeem/Mutombo

Explosive fastbreaking second unit..
point guard?
Reggie Miller
Dominique Wilkins
Shawn Kemp
Center?

Shooters: Reggie Miller, Glen Rice...
Big men that can shoot: KAJ, Lamarcus Aldridge.

MTar786
06-17-2015, 11:21 PM
magic/oscar
jordan/kobe
lebron/bird/durant
duncan/hakeem/kg
shaq/kareem

rocketfuel
06-18-2015, 03:47 PM
Just out of curiosity, what would your ultimate fastbreaking 2nd unit look like? to compete with the likes of the Golden State Warriors or the Nash Suns in terms of flying up and down the court....

kovacs22
06-18-2015, 04:02 PM
Quote Originally Posted by asandhu23 View Post
Really like this list , well done.

C: Wilt C2: Kareem C3: Hakeem or Moses
PF: Duncan PF2: K Malone PF3: Garnett
SF: Bird SF2: LeBron SF3: Julius Erving
SG: Jordan SG2: Kobe SG3: Drexler
PG: Magic PG2: Oscar PG3: Stockton


I second this list. I'd probably throw in Shaq, though.

Not worthy of this list but I'd throw in a young Vince Carter or Dominique Wilkins, and a Muggsey Bogues for kicks.

Redrum187
06-18-2015, 04:06 PM
Starters:

PG: Stephen Curry (he's not the greatest PG but he is one of the best shooters of all time)
SG: Michael Jordan
SF: LeBron James
PF: Dirk Nowitzki
C: Hakeem Olajuwon

Bench:

PG: Jason Kidd (doesn't need to score to be effective; does everything Curry doesn't)
SG: Scottie Pippen
SF: Larry Bird
PF: Tim Duncan (better than Dirk but Dirk starts for floor spacing)
C: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

11th/12th:

SG: Reggie Miller
SF: Dennis Rodman

FYL_McVeezy
06-18-2015, 09:42 PM
PG: Oscar Robertson
SG: Micheal Jordan
SF: Lebron James
PF: Dirk Nowitzki
C: Wilt Chamberlain

Bench:
Scottie Pippen
Hakeem Olajuwon
Gary Payton
Kevin Garnett
Reggie Miller

Reserves:
Kevin Durant
Chris Paul
Kevin McHale

Steelersfan84
06-18-2015, 11:07 PM
Magic
Jordan
Bird
Malone
Kareem

Stockton
Kobe
Pippen
Barkley
Shaq

Oscar Robertson
Wilt Chamberlain
James Worthy

Minimal
06-19-2015, 07:55 AM
Starters:
John Stockton
Reggie Miller
LeBron James
Tim Duncan
Shaquille O'Neal

2nd Unit
Chris Paul
Michael Jordan
Scottie Pippen
Kevin Garnett
Wilt Chamberlain

2 extras
Kevin Durant
Hakeem Olajuwon

Great floor spacing due to great 3 point shooters in Stockton, Miller, Paul, Durant. Also great perimeter defense. Duncan and Garnett provide great rim protection and space in the paint for Bron and Jordan to work with. Shaq and Wilt dominate in the paint.

YAALREADYKNO
06-19-2015, 12:09 PM
The defensive unit should be

Payton
Jordan
Pippen
Garnett
Olajuwon

and I guarantee they're holding everyone to under 60 and im being nice

rocketfuel
06-19-2015, 03:09 PM
That unit would hold most NBA championship teams to their lowest numbers. But, what do you think of substituting Westbrook for Payton? I think Westbrook is so freakishly athletic for a point guard. It would make it the most athletic starting unit and versatile 2-way....

Jamiecballer
06-19-2015, 04:26 PM
If we were talking about an actual basketball "team", i'd say pretty close to the '95 Bulls with a better center.

Ty Fast
06-19-2015, 04:38 PM
My ideal team

Stockton
Jordan
Pippen
Bird
67 Wilt


My ideal fast break team:
Nash
MJ
Pippen
Bron
Russell

My ideal defensive team (that can still play offense)
GP
MJ
Pippen
Duncan
Russell/Hakeem



These things are always more fun if we remove the top20 or so players tho

nash is canadian

rocketfuel
06-20-2015, 12:58 AM
What's the difference between Hakeem's defense and Mutombo's? How would it impact the lineup?
What's the difference between Pippen and Lebron's defense?

Raps08-09 Champ
06-20-2015, 01:12 AM
We're talking about American players right (Dream Team was Team USA).

C - Chamberlain, Abdul Jabbar, Shaq
PF - Duncan, Garnett, Olajuwon
SF - Lebron, Bird, Durant
SG - Jordan, Kobe, Allen
PG - Magic, Curry, Paul

We need more shooters and less ISO players.

IKnowHoops
06-20-2015, 01:24 AM
I think an all time dream team 15 deep would go like this. This is based off what I think the World would want to see.

PG-Magic
SG-Mike
SF-Lebron
PF-Duncan
C-Shaq

2nd
PG-Chris Paul
SG-Kobe
SF-Bird
PF-Dream
C-KAJ

3rd
PG-Iverson
SG-Wade
SF-TMAC
PF-DROB
C-WILT


My Personal

PG-Lebron
SG-Mike
SF-Durant
PF-Drob
C-Shaq

2nd
PG-Wade
SG-Kobe
SF-Tmac
PF-Duncan
C-Dream

3rd
PG-Magic
SG-Iverson
SF-Bird
PF-KG
C-Wilt



Out of the six, which lineup is the best?

Raps08-09 Champ
06-20-2015, 01:26 AM
Half of these teams have no 3 point shooting.

rocketfuel
06-20-2015, 04:08 PM
Magic's not a very good defender.... if you have great players in there that can already pass, you don't really need him. And if you have 10 great one on one players already, a Glen Rice or Reggie Miller would be way more effective than another guy who's great at scoring, but not an efficient shooter. Also, just like Igoudala became very important, sometimes a lockdown defender on your team would make a huge difference and end up supplanting a more explosive offensive player...