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View Full Version : After This Season the HEAT need a Roster Revamp



Nikeman
05-18-2014, 07:55 PM
Please do not come in here and say this is my reaction to one game, this is my reaction to this entire season.

Simply put, if our team is going to keep contending and winning championships in the future, the HEAT need to add and remove some serious pieces. While everybody believes LeBron is staying, I am scared he may leave, because LeBron is as great a basketball mind there is and he knows the situation we have.

I LOVE D-WADE TO DEATH, he is my man crush, the reason I follow Miami, etc etc, but at age 32, and breaking down, he is not getting the job done anymore. Some plays Wade makes during a game are completely bone-headed. I truly hope we do not give him a max contract next season because no max contract player should need to sit out 1/3rd of the season to "stay healthy and rested". He looks old, and he has lost athleticism which is what his game thrives off of.

If anyone watches Miami, whenever Bosh/LeBron play without Wade, Bosh tears it up. Anyone remember the Portland game, where LeBron sat out? Bosh scored 37 and hit the game winning 3? The ability for Bosh is there, the utilization is not. Bosh is a work horse, who has the ability to be given the ball down low and go to work. Its sad, because only LeBron and Wade have plays drawn up for them, when Bosh at this point is much more capable than Wade.

This small ball, which has won us titles the last two years, is not going to keep working as teams are getting bigger and more athletic as well as us getting older. It seems like everybody on our roster is 30+ now.

If we want to field a competitive team in the future, we need a quality center who can bang with the best of them, and vacuum in rebounds. Countless times this year I have seen a 7 footer get easy tip ins over a Haslem or Birdman as they just don't possess the size.

With LeBron hitting 30 this year, we need younger athletic players as well to come off the bench and give this team a spark. Other than the Spurs, the "Core" of every team is 25-26 years old, while ours is 30+. If our roster is not overhauled, our window is much smaller than we think.

Back when the Big 3 were formed, Miami in 2011, James was 26, Wade was 28 and Bosh was 26. The team was small, but was head and shoulders more athletic than any opponent they faced. The athleticism of the Big 3 has declined, and other teams have become bigger and more athletic themselves to counter us. The only athletic freak remaining on our team is James, about to hit 30. I can only see LeBron being able to bail us out so many more times with his ability. We need to get this guy a team and fast.

The bottom line is with our 3 max contracts, we do not have the ability to go out and sign other quality players. It leads us to sign players like Rashard Lewis, etc etc, players well passed their prime. Greg Oden was a stupid move in hindsight, shouldn't he be playing by now?? He was supposed to be the one banging with Roy Hibbert but I dont think hes played this entire playoffs. Bynum was available but we kept Oden?

On one hand, I love our team loyalty, but hopefully it doesnt affect the future of HEAT basketball.

lavilevi23
05-18-2014, 08:57 PM
In Pat We Trust!

Master Mind
05-18-2014, 09:18 PM
I absolutely agree Nikeman!

rex.reyesiii
05-18-2014, 10:18 PM
Since Wade is not "that"(kobe, uhm sorry) kind of player, I bet he agrees on not getting the max next season, maybe retire(?) with Gabby and the Kids. etc

SteBO
05-19-2014, 06:38 AM
Oh this is definitely a given. We have a lot of older guys, and it's been showing all year long. We still have enough to be able to win it all this year, and there's still a ton of time left to accomplish our goal THIS year but after this, we need to get younger.

beasted86
05-19-2014, 09:24 AM
A roster revamp for me means we are changing our core players, which isn't happening.

LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Chalmers, Haslem, and Birdman will all be here next year if it's up to Pat and Micky. So all we are doing is changing the outside role players... that's not a roster revamp.

While I agree we could use size, I'm more focused on athleticism. We need to get a lot quicker on the perimeter. The days of the "skirmish" are now gone with Wade and Battier getting older, and then adding an even slower Allen into the mix. I hope we add an Ariza or Marion type rather than a lumbering oaf with free throw shooting so bad he has to sit in the fourth quarter like DeAndre Jordan.

What I'm saying is the same recipe of speed versatility and shooting can still work, not just size. A player like Serge Ibaka would make the team infinitely more dynamic than a Mark Gasol.

beasted86
05-19-2014, 09:43 AM
Which players are available this summer that is like a poor man's Ibaka? Or is in the draft? Guys like Larry Sanders and John Henson were taken outside the lottery

Wade n Fade
05-19-2014, 11:41 AM
Which players are available this summer that is like a poor man's Ibaka? Or is in the draft? Guys like Larry Sanders and John Henson were taken outside the lottery

Mil would trade those guys without hesitation. Those are Herb era guys. The less Herb era guys, the better for the Bucks. Sanders is a head case anyways. I would consider trading a 2nd for Henson. That's fair enough for me.

WadeCounty
05-19-2014, 02:24 PM
I agree with op, as for wade retiring already is just ludicrous. Give him a 7m contract or something along the lines of that, he surely is worth more than what mike miller was and mike received a similar amount.

Battier is retiring after this season, we're losing another perimeter defender and hustle guy

Ray Allen has one year left before he retires

Haslem needs a pay cut

Bosh needs a pay cut somewhere along the lines of 10m, I do think he deserves more than wade for what he brings to this team and how other teams will be trying to lure him away from us

Birdman has 1 year left if im not mistaken on his contract in which he can then leave and go to whomever will pay more, which someone will.

James Jones imo has always been consistent at scoring, his defense is not as bad as people make it seem. More playing time for him.

Beasley is our young player making the least which could help on offense, he's a must keep depending on his price tag ofcourse. He plays no defense you say? so does more than half this Heat team this year

I prefer Cole over Chalmers if Mario is looking for a big pay day.

I would have loved Kevin Love on the heat, a better bosh in the sense from shooting from long distance and he actually gets rebounds

UMdev
05-20-2014, 11:48 AM
I agree with op, as for wade retiring already is just ludicrous. Give him a 7m contract or something along the lines of that, he surely is worth more than what mike miller was and mike received a similar amount.

What do you mean "give" him a $7M contract. He already is guaranteed $42M for the next 2 years. At $7M he would have to work for 6 years just to get the money he's already guaranteed for 2. Who in their right mind would do that????

UMdev
05-20-2014, 11:52 AM
Bosh needs a pay cut somewhere along the lines of 10m, I do think he deserves more than wade for what he brings to this team and how other teams will be trying to lure him away from us

This is just as ridiculous. Bosh could easily get a max contract out there on the open market. Not to mention he is also guaranteed $42M over the next 2 years. You wan't him to basically give up over half of that????

I think these guys would give up a few million to get the stability of long term contracts and help but giving up over half your salary for a guy who makes no money from endorsements is just stupid. You might as well propose they work for free.

WadeCounty
05-20-2014, 12:58 PM
This is just as ridiculous. Bosh could easily get a max contract out there on the open market. Not to mention he is also guaranteed $42M over the next 2 years. You wan't him to basically give up over half of that????

I think these guys would give up a few million to get the stability of long term contracts and help but giving up over half your salary for a guy who makes no money from endorsements is just stupid. You might as well propose they work for free.

Giving him a max contract in the first place is what was ridiculous. The Heat have only next year left that they can actually compete with the roster they currently have by default on how week the east is. Compete as in reach ECF but that's it. If they want to have a chance at more rings they'll have to have a sitdown and restructure their contracts

UMdev
05-20-2014, 04:07 PM
Giving him a max contract in the first place is what was ridiculous. The Heat have only next year left that they can actually compete with the roster they currently have by default on how week the east is. Compete as in reach ECF but that's it. If they want to have a chance at more rings they'll have to have a sitdown and restructure their contracts

How is it ridiculous. The guy is worth that and more, he'd get more as a FA. What's ridiculous is you thinking a guy is going to give up millions of dollars of guaranteed money for the benefit of some rich owner. Do they need to give up some money if they want to compete, sure. But at the level your talking just isn't in the realm of possibility.

When they took their contracts with the Heat they each gave up $15M over the life of the contract (let that sink in). So that is basically $2.5M a year discount. But they put in an early out option in 2014 so if they didn't win the rings at least they could bounce and get max pay again while still in their prime (outside of Wade). So at most they were risking $10M over 4 years for the opportunity to win rings. You want Bosh to give up that much every year.

Fast forward to today and now Bosh has 2 rings. And while everyone loves to compete let's be honest that more rings aren't going to make a real difference to Bosh. In fact you could argue if he goes somewhere else and puts up old Bosh numbers he would be better off. So would he be willing to give up a couple million a year again like he did last time? Possibly so. But give up HALF of his salary for the good of the team????

Again, Bosh has 2 yrs guaranteed for $42M. The Heat cant do anything to get him out that contract outside of trading him. So the only way to entice him would be to offer him more guaranteed years. So maybe you give him 4 extra years at $17M and then when you divide that total over 6 years it comes out to $18.3 a year which saves the team $2M next year and $4M the year after.

So with restructured deals you save $2m from Bosh, $2M from Lebron and $6M from Wade giving you $10M to go out and get some help.

Romo2Bryant
05-20-2014, 06:12 PM
I hear what you are saying Nikeman, but I don't think they need a roster revamp. Assuming if LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Allen, Haslem, Cole and Anderson returns next season that's the core of the team. Chalmers is a question mark, because I'm not sure how much he wants in free agency. Look at the Spurs they continue to add pieces around Parker, Duncan and Ginobili. They develop Splitter, traded George Hill for Kahwi Leonard, and also develop guys like Patty Mills and Danny Green. I been saying they to need add more athletic wing defenders. I would also like to see the Heat target guys like B. Diaw and S. Marion. Utah Jazz ended up drafting Gorgui Dieng with the 21st pick last year, then traded him to Minnesota. If the Heat are able to get a similar player with the 26th pick, I would be ecstatic.

Nikeman
05-20-2014, 07:17 PM
Romo, I agree with some points of your post, that being said, a core of Wade, Bosh and LeBron will not get the job done anymore in this league. You cannot put Wade as a core piece anymore on this team, (it pains me a lot to say this). Simply put, the guy is such a question mark with his health now, he cannot be counted on for the future. Resting a player 30-40 games a season to keep him healthy, does not make them a core player. Secondly, Tim Duncan, Parker, and Manu are not players that relied on supernatural athleticism to get them by, they played proper fundamental basketball. Our Big 3 in their peak was more athletic and bigger and stronger than the players at their position. The Spurs big 3 are the type of players that age well in the NBA, the opposite case is true for us. As we can already see, Wade at age 31-32 slowed down and is a shell of himself, imagine him at 35-36 like Manu.

Ideally, we are able to re-sign them for the contracts they are now worth, but I simply do not see Wade/Bosh signing for much less than close to a max deal which is what scares me as that will severely limit our future. Ideally, we could add a solid defensive big man, a 3 pt shooter, and an athletic wing.

At this point, with LeBron hitting 30 this year, we cannot ask him to do anything and everything anymore, he needs help. If anyone watched this season, while playing remarkably efficient offensive basketball, LeBron was not the same on defense. He cannot do it all for 48 minutes anymore and the sooner we realize this the better.

Hopefully at some point, the HEAT make Wade play 20-25 minutes a game, and make him a Jamal Crawford type 6th man, to lead our bench and be the spark on our second unit. This will reduce his minutes, and allow him to play the second units of the other teams which may help Wade.

I am very eager to see how this off-season plays out, as I believe that will determine our future for the next 3-4 years. Like the 2011 off-season, which set us up very well for the next 4 years, this off-season is crucial in determining HEAT basketball. I trust Pat, but I doubt Wade and Bosh take enough of a paycut to allow us to bring in younger, quality players. Simply put, signing players 32+ past their prime willing to take a pay cut to be on a contending team, (Ray Allen, Roger Mason, etc etc) will not get the job done anymore

Romo2Bryant
05-21-2014, 08:55 PM
Nikeman, I think Pat Riley feels like this current team can win another championship this year, then during the off-season that's when he starts to add more younger and new role players. I mean there has to be a reason why N. Cole is the only contract guaranteed for next season. Maybe Riley knows something that we don't know. Now only if Riley can find a way to get K. Love (I know just wishful thinking). At this point, I got no idea what's going to happen. LeBron shouldn't have to take a pay-cut, if anything he should be getting a raise this off-season.

On the other hand, I heard a rumor that Bosh and Lakers have mutual interest (Link) (http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2014/05/lakers-mutual-interest.html). For the record, I like having Bosh on the team. But let's say if he ended up signing with the Lakers, then what's next for the Heat?

Nikeman
05-21-2014, 11:20 PM
Nikeman, I think Pat Riley feels like this current team can win another championship this year, then during the off-season that's when he starts to add more younger and new role players. I mean there has to be a reason why N. Cole is the only contract guaranteed for next season. Maybe Riley knows something that we don't know. Now only if Riley can find a way to get K. Love (I know just wishful thinking). At this point, I got no idea what's going to happen. LeBron shouldn't have to take a pay-cut, if anything he should be getting a raise this off-season.

On the other hand, I heard a rumor that Bosh and Lakers have mutual interest (Link) (http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2014/05/lakers-mutual-interest.html). For the record, I like having Bosh on the team. But let's say if he ended up signing with the Lakers, then what's next for the Heat?

If Bosh leaves, we use his designated money on a true center, and a capable PF along with a wing. Gortat can easily be had with an 8m deal, and 5m each for another PF and wing player may not be so bad. That being said, if Bosh leaves, 99% Bron does too.

With the Cavs getting the #1 pick, I am truly scared he may leave. If they trade the #1 pick for love, a 22 year old Kyrie Irving, 25 year old Kevin Love and a LeBron team has a window of 5-6 years to dominate this league.

king james
05-22-2014, 12:30 AM
And can someone tell me where is the D on that Cleveland team? If they get Love; where is his D suppose to come from? Can kyrie stay healthy? Waiters and Kyrie don't play well together. Can Varejo even play at his normal level again. Tristen Thompson is a joke and the rookie from last year Bennett is considered to b thee worst overall #1 selection of all time. They don't have a bench and not to mention they don't even have a COACH. They don't know what type of team they will even have next year. Not to mention that they have a owner who has fired each of his teams coach in the last 4 years. One of the coaches has been fired twice.

Now after all of this do u really think that lebron would trust his legacy tied to a team or better yet organization that has had 3 1st overall picks and 1 other high 1st rdr in the last 4 years and still have not made the playoffs 1 time. Come on Man U guys r just looking at names on the paper. These names that u all r seeing r well known and just bcuz they r on the same team u think they r going to ball automatically. As u all should remember, our big 3 didn't jell that quickly 2gether their 1st yr. and u r talking about a finals MVP. At that time a nba 2x MVP and at that time one of the best pfs in the game. Had issues and they all had been n the league 4 8yrs. But u all really think that he is going to give up all that he has accomplished here winning 2 mvps and championships just to go back to Cleveland to play with a guy that can't stay healthy, a couple of rookies and a cast of other misfits on that roster. U got to be kidding me. Lol. If he was to leave at least bring up a team that has a chance to win the title next yr like golden st. or some other team that actually has talent to win it all if he came aboard. But to put Cleveland up there is just being disrespectful to what he is about as a player.

rex.reyesiii
05-22-2014, 01:01 AM
Its only the LBJ "haters" who wants to discredit his rings here in Miami that wants him to go back to the Cavs. They invent this criteria so they can to give respect to "The King".

UMdev
05-22-2014, 01:51 PM
I think there is 0 chance Lebron goes back to cleveland. It just doesn't make any logical sense. Not only would he be leaving one of the best organizations today but he would be basically starting up all the craziness again. He came to Miami lost the first year, put up with the pressure and finally won 2 championships. As long as he adds another one or two over the next few years here he's fine. However the second he goes back to cleveland all of that will be erased. Just think of the noise if he goes back and doesn't win the first year or better yet not even the second year. All of a sudden the argument would be he can't win without superfriends. Plus I don't think you can chase the legacy of the greats by jumping teams every 4 years.

His best bet is to finish out his career in Miami, be a good contender for the championship several times similar to the spurs and after playing for the Heat for 10 years the vast majority of people won't even remember his time in cleveland.

rex.reyesiii
05-22-2014, 11:13 PM
I think there is 0 chance Lebron goes back to cleveland. It just doesn't make any logical sense. Not only would he be leaving one of the best organizations today but he would be basically starting up all the craziness again. He came to Miami lost the first year, put up with the pressure and finally won 2 championships. As long as he adds another one or two over the next few years here he's fine. However the second he goes back to cleveland all of that will be erased. Just think of the noise if he goes back and doesn't win the first year or better yet not even the second year. All of a sudden the argument would be he can't win without superfriends. Plus I don't think you can chase the legacy of the greats by jumping teams every 4 years.

His best bet is to finish out his career in Miami, be a good contender for the championship several times similar to the spurs and after playing for the Heat for 10 years the vast majority of people won't even remember his time in cleveland.

That(highlighted) is what I meant with the imaginary "criteria" Lebron haters have. They would only respect him if he got the Cavs a ring and finish his career there without his superfriends.

Romo2Bryant
05-23-2014, 01:26 PM
If Cleveland seriously wants LeBron back, they have to trade for K. Love. LeBron is probably willing to mentor Wiggins and Parker, but that doesn't mean they are ready to contribute as of now to win a championship. Everyone is seeing Cavaliers drafting these players with the 1st four picks (Irving, Thompson, Waiters, Bennett) and are assuming they are All-Stars or have shown tremendous upside. Only one is Irving, and he has shown he can't stay healthy and still has a lot of work to do with his game. The one move I knew the Cavaliers were going to regret was not drafting Andre Drummond, that's someone LeBron would love playing with and already have a close relationship with Drummond.

Furthermore, this is the same team that haven't reach the playoffs since they had LeBron, still have Dan Gilbert and changing they're G.M. and head coach yet again. I can see LeBron returning to Cleveland late in his career but as of now he trusts Pat Riley to surround him with a championship caliber team. Which is something Dan Gilbert couldn't do in LeBron's first seven years with Cleveland.

rocketfuel
05-24-2014, 04:27 AM
I don't see Lebron going back to Cleveland. You hardly ever see a player leave a fun city to go back to a small market team. Lebron has south beach, the security of an organization that he has had success with. It's too much pressure to go back to the place that burned your jersey and had the owner call you out. Also, I just get the feeling that Cleveland can't get their act together and Lebron would not put that team over the top. No doubt the Heat would be beating up the Pacers right now if the other "big 2" lived up to the level Lebron is having and if you paired Lebron with one of the top shooting guards, they would be rolling...just not sure how they'd do that without ruffling some feathers. Wade's been one of the faces of the franchise for a decade. He really doesn't look like the player that I remember who dominated the Mavs in that championship. As for big men, an Ibaka like player really fits with what they do. I think with Love, you'd compromise their defense and whatever he brings offensively wouldn't be enough to offset the defense since Lebron would be the primary scorer and Love wouldn't get the same touches.

beasted86
05-26-2014, 09:30 AM
I don't see Lebron going back to Cleveland. You hardly ever see a player leave a fun city to go back to a small market team. Lebron has south beach, the security of an organization that he has had success with. It's too much pressure to go back to the place that burned your jersey and had the owner call you out. Also, I just get the feeling that Cleveland can't get their act together and Lebron would not put that team over the top. No doubt the Heat would be beating up the Pacers right now if the other "big 2" lived up to the level Lebron is having and if you paired Lebron with one of the top shooting guards, they would be rolling...just not sure how they'd do that without ruffling some feathers. Wade's been one of the faces of the franchise for a decade. He really doesn't look like the player that I remember who dominated the Mavs in that championship. As for big men, an Ibaka like player really fits with what they do. I think with Love, you'd compromise their defense and whatever he brings offensively wouldn't be enough to offset the defense since Lebron would be the primary scorer and Love wouldn't get the same touches.

Have you been watching Wade in the ECF?

If he's not playing as good as you expect, then I'm sorry, because there is no better SG out there to trade or sign. No SG has had a playoff series recently at the level Wade is playing right now. 24 ppg, 62% Fg, 60% 3pt, 4 apg, 3 rpg.

If that's not good enough, then I'm not sure what else we need against the Pacers other than trade for Durant or find a cloning machine for LeBron.

Dré
05-26-2014, 10:50 AM
Have you been watching Wade in the ECF?

(I don't usually agree w/ you but) forget the ECFs, Wade's been really solid through the playoffs (and something tells me he's only recently shifted out of first gear, kind of looked like he was sleep-walking through rounds 1 and 2).

Wade is shooting .542 from 2-pt range, .400 from 3-pt range, .534 from the floor, and has an adjusted FG% (eFG%) of .545 and a TS% of .584. He's also done a good job finding teammates (4.1 assists/game) and has really been limiting his turns (2.3/game). The only thing he's truly been bad @ doing, is rebounding (unfortunately). Other than that though, he hasn't really been below-average in any other statistical category. Like I said though, Wade looks like he still has at least 2 extra gears he could hit, before finally maxing out. (If 06 Finals Wade shows up, then upwards of 2 would be much more appropriate).

Most important players thus far (through the first three rounds) have been Allen, Anderson, Bron, and Wade (no surprise there).

Romo2Bryant
05-26-2014, 02:08 PM
Have you been watching Wade in the ECF?

If he's not playing as good as you expect, then I'm sorry, because there is no better SG out there to trade or sign. No SG has had a playoff series recently at the level Wade is playing right now. 24 ppg, 62% Fg, 60% 3pt, 4 apg, 3 rpg.

If that's not good enough, then I'm not sure what else we need against the Pacers other than trade for Durant or find a cloning machine for LeBron.

Right! Wade been tremendous this series. I just wish Bosh steps up when he plays against the Pacers. But the thing is once people start criticizing Bosh, he usually steps up and make some clutch plays.

ReBirthofNumber81
05-26-2014, 02:13 PM
This thread is dumb. Miami will stay together next year for one more run

rocketfuel
06-15-2014, 02:50 AM
Have you been watching Wade in the ECF?

If he's not playing as good as you expect, then I'm sorry, because there is no better SG out there to trade or sign. No SG has had a playoff series recently at the level Wade is playing right now. 24 ppg, 62% Fg, 60% 3pt, 4 apg, 3 rpg.

If that's not good enough, then I'm not sure what else we need against the Pacers other than trade for Durant or find a cloning machine for LeBron.

I know you're a Heat fan, but you could not possibly be arguing that this version of Wade is anywhere close to the version that beat up the Mavs in their first championship.

beasted86
06-15-2014, 09:21 AM
I know you're a Heat fan, but you could not possibly be arguing that this version of Wade is anywhere close to the version that beat up the Mavs in their first championship.
Duh!

Is there any player in the NBA that is the same player they were 8 years ago?

rocketfuel
06-15-2014, 04:57 PM
Duh!

Is there any player in the NBA that is the same player they were 8 years ago?

Then, what are you quibbling about? That was my point that you highlighted. Sigh.

Way_Of_Life
06-17-2014, 01:31 AM
Good post Nikeman. The team should go after better younger role players. Everybody need to take pay cuts. Especially Wade. That the difference this year between Heat and Spurs. Their guys took pay cuts and had better role players.