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View Full Version : NBA All Time ReDraft (3) San Jose vs. (6) Roshtown



killthesux
05-16-2014, 12:15 PM
Hello Everyone. Welcome to the NBA All-time redraft playoffs. These will be a battle between two made up teams from our host of GMís in to see who reigns superiority over all of basketball. Please read the write-ups and vote for who you think would win in a 7 game series.

Roshtown

Rotation:

C: Nate Thurmond (31) | Mehmet Okur (10) | Antonio McDyess (7) | Caldwell Jones
PF: Chris Webber (36) | Antonio McDyess (12)
SF: Bobby Jones (29) | Rodney McCray (10) | Wesley Person (9)
SG: Kobe Bryant (37) | Fat Lever (11) | Wesley Person
PG: Penny Hardaway (33)| BJ Armstrong (8) | Fat Lever (7)

vs.

San Jose

Depth Chart:
PG: Dennis Johnson/Jamal Crawford/Steve Kerr
SG: Michael Finley/Tony Allen/Steve Kerr
SF: Grant Hill / Toni Kukoc/Toni Kukoc
PF: Pau Gasol/ Dave Debuscherre/Lou Hudson
C: Wilt Chamberlain/ Marc Gasol/Marc Gasol

San Jose has Home Court Advantage

Roshtown Write Up

C: Nate Thurmond (31) | Mehmet Okur (10) | Antonio McDyess (7) | Caldwell Jones
PF: Chris Webber (36) | Antonio McDyess (12)
SF: Bobby Jones (29) | Rodney McCray (10) | Wesley Person (9)
SG: Kobe Bryant (37) | Fat Lever (11) | Wesley Person
PG: Penny Hardaway (33)| BJ Armstrong (8) | Fat Lever (7)

First off, congrats to Matter for obtaining the 3-seed and building a very quality team in a stacked conference. This is a nightmare matchup for you guys though.

Offensively:
Roshtown will be running the triangle offense primarily. Chris Webber is a phenomenal post option for the triangle because he is one of the best passing big-men of all time, can hit the mid-range jumper at a high rate, and is proficient in the paint. Heís exactly what Kobe thrives off of in the post. We also thrive off of winning one-on-one matchups, especially in the backcourt. How many starting backcourts can guard both Penny Hardaway and Kobe Bryant? Penny Hardaway, playing at PG, led his team to the NBA Finals along with Shaquille OíNeal in just his second year and was a serious MVP candidate. He can shoot, drive, dish, and even post up with his 6-7 frame versus smaller guards. We all know that Kobe can win one-on-one matchups in a plethora of ways, whether it be post-ups, mid-range game, or driving to the basket. This is also what makes guys like Nate Thurmond and Bobby Jones so valuable. Bobby Jones made his living off of cutting to the hoop, grabbing loose balls, and crashing the glass. Nate Thurmond is a phenomenal rebounder and though his touch around the hoop is not the greatest, he can hit the mid-range jumper if need be. The offense of this team is going to run through our guards and Chris Webber, but all of these players are good and willing passers (Kobe- 5.1 APG, Penny- 6.7 APG, Bobby Jones-3.5 APG, Webber- 4.1 APG, and Thurmond-3.7 APG). When you have willing passers who can find the mismatch, and a backcourt that will wreak havoc for backcourts, itís a recipe for success.
This San Jose just doesnít have the perimeter defense to match up with Roshtown. Dennis Johnson is a great defender, but we know that no matter the defender, Kobe will get his. Dennis has the ability to frustrate Kobe and make him take some tough shots which may lead to some poor shooting games, but Kobe is one of the best tough shot makers in the game and also has the option to defer to his backcourt mate, Penny Hardaway. Penny is going to have a big mismatch on his hands if heís going against Michael Finley. Finley might have the height to guard him, but he doesnít have the quickness to guard someone like Penny who can get to the hoop at will. When Penny was in his prime in Orlando, he sported a 59% TS%. He is adept at getting to the line, setting up his teammates for easy buckets, and being aggressive getting to the paint. Heíll be causing a great deal of issues for San Jose this series because either he or Kobe is going to have Finley on him which is an ideal matchup for Roshtown. Down low, if they throw Wilt on Webber, then good luck to Pau trying to stop Nate on the offensive glass. In this case, Webberís scoring may be limited, but his presence in the post as a passer and mid-range option still remains. We imagine with guys like Kobe, Webber, and Hardaway, Wilt will have his hands full playing help defense and this will result in foul trouble. Lastly, Bobby Jones will get his hustle points no matter the defender. He can finish around the rim, grab offensive rebounds, and knows when to make the right cuts. His points arenít coming off of isolation plays, heís a player that feeds off the rest of the team and the ultimate role player for us.

Defensively:
Weíre going to be sticking Kobe Bryant on Dennis Johnson and let Penny Hardaway guard Michael Finley. Kobe in his prime was one of, if not the best wing defender in the NBA and would give a smaller guy like Dennis Johnson fits. The half-court offense for San Jose will be reliant on post scoring from Wilt and penetration from Grant Hill and Dennis Johnson. Sticking Kobe on Dennis Johnson will definitely limit Dennis Johnsonís production. On the flipside, we have no issue putting Penny on Michael Finley, because Penny isnít a typical point guard. The man is 6-7, 195 and is definitely capable of guarding both guard positions. With Kobe giving all kinds of fits to Dennis, Iím sure San Jose will rely more heavily on Grant Hill to create some offense. Unfortunately for them, we have one of the best defenders to play the forward position guarding him in Bobby Jones. Jones made NINE All-Defensive First teams and is a guy who has the ability to really frustrate Grant Hill. Jones sports a 6-9 210 pound frame so you know he isnít getting posted up by Hill. Hill is great at getting to the hoop and creating for others, but with a brute like Thurmond down low and Bobby Jones sticking him like white on rice, itís going to be a long series for Hill.

In terms of big men, Webber will be guarding Pau and Thurmond will be guarding Chamberlain. Webber and Pau arenít exactly defensive stoppers, but they both bring a lot of the same things to the table. Webber in his prime just does the things that Pau does a little bit better. Heís a better passer in the post, has a better mid-range game, and is a better rebounder than Pau. Theyíre both pretty good defenders, but imagine that both of them will be able to execute their roles well this series, with Webber having the slight advantage of just being a better player. The money matchup this series is Wilt Chamberlain vs. Nate Thurmond. Matchups like these are why Roshtown drafted Nate. In his prime, Nate was one of the greatest defensive centers in the game. He went against Kareem, Wilt, and Russell in their prime. Hereís how he fared in a few of those playoff series:

In Wilts championship year he faced both Bill Russell and Nate.
VS Russell, Wilt averaged 21.6 PPG (56% FG %) - 32.0 REB - 10.0 AST
VS Nate in the Finals, Wilt averaged 17.6PPG (56%FG %) - 28.5 REB - 6.8 AST

1969 Playoffs:
Wilt Chamberlain vs. Nate: 12.0 PPG (50% FG %) - 23.5 REB - 3.0 AST

1972 Playoffs:
Kareem A.Jabbar - 22.8 ppg, 18.4 rpg, 5.4 apg, 40.5 %FG, 47.8 min
Nate Thurmond - 25.4 ppg, 17.8 rpg, 5.2 apg, 43.4 %FG, 46.0 min

1973 Playoffs:
KAJ - 22.8 PPG (42.8 FG%) - 16.2 REB - 2.8 AST
Nate- 13.5 PPG (39.7 FG%) - 9.8 REB - 3.2 AST


Nate is one of the best defenders at the center position and he would definitely give issues to Wilt. Though heís not a great offensive threat, he would force Wilt into some off nights in this series and disrupt San Joseís offense.

Bench
Off the bench, we can plug in a plethora of guys who all can perform their roles very well. BJ Armstrong is a great off-ball PG to go along with Kobe, Penny and Lever. He can shoot the lights out (44% 3P %). Fat Lever can play both guard positions and is a guy who could go for a triple double any night in his prime. He averaged 19.0 PPG, 8.9 RPG, and 7.4 APG in his peak three years and was an All-Defensive Team member. The guy is a jack of all trades and is an ideal sixth man for our team. At SF, we can plug in either McCray or Wesley Person. Person provides a great three point threat (41% 3P %) while McCray is a very strong defender (2x All-Defensive Team). Our primary big man off the bench will be the athletic Antonio McDyess. McDyess provides a big with a good midrange game, great athleticism, strong defense and good rebounding. He didnít have great longevity, but in his prime he was a very good power forward. We will also be seeing spurs of Mehmet Okur, who can space the floor at the center position (40 3P %) and bring San Joseís center out to the perimeter where he feels uncomfortable. We will also see a bit of Caldwell Jones if Nate is in foul trouble. Jones is a very strong defender (2x All-Defensive Team) and could board with the best of them.

Conclusion
This is a very close matchup, but Roshtown has assembled their team for matchups like these. The main reasons why Roshtown would win:
1. Penny Hardaway and Kobe Bryant cannot be contained by this San Jose backcourt
2. Wilt is being guarded by a guy who has limited him before and given him fits
3. Three of San Joseís best players are being guarded by three of the best defenders of all-time (Kobe, Jones, Thurmond)
Roshtown is a nightmare matchup for San Jose. In tough, gritty series like this, I trust Kobe Bryant to lead his team to victory more than I trust Wilt Chamberlain, who always let a less talented Bill Russell get in his way. Both teams are talented, but Roshtownís ability to limit Grant Hill, Dennis Johnson and Wilt Chamberlain is the difference here. Roshtown wins this series.

todu82
05-16-2014, 12:26 PM
San Jose

Matter.
05-16-2014, 12:33 PM
Even though Nate did limit Wilt's ppg, he was still scoring efficently and the fact of the matter is that he was shooting way less compared to the times he had before as his coach told him to pass around more therefore his higher assist numbers, hence i might add, one game where the sixers were down at half, wilt's coach, Hannum asked Chamberlain to take it to Nate in the second half. And with his teammates getting him the ball, Chamberlain scored 24 second half points on Thurmond, en route to a 30-26 game (with a listed 12 blocked shots), and a come-from-behind win. I believe even as good as thurmond is as 1 on 1 defender Prime wilt can still score 30+ on Thurmond.

will add more once, in a rush

roshan3ai
05-16-2014, 01:24 PM
Even though Nate did limit Wilt's ppg, he was still scoring efficently and the fact of the matter is that he was shooting way less compared to the times he had before as his coach told him to pass around more therefore his higher assist numbers, hence i might add, one game where the sixers were down at half, wilt's coach, Hannum asked Chamberlain to take it to Nate in the second half. And with his teammates getting him the ball, Chamberlain scored 24 second half points on Thurmond, en route to a 30-26 game (with a listed 12 blocked shots), and a come-from-behind win. I believe even as good as thurmond is as 1 on 1 defender Prime wilt can still score 30+ on Thurmond.

will add more once, in a rush

Wilt was also playing insane minutes and a much faster pace, so his numbers will be much higher. I doubt Wilt will be playing 47 minutes per game in this series, and the pace back then also played into his inflated numbers. Even with all those factors, Wilt averaged under 20 points per game in a couple of series' against Nate. He also affected Wilt's assist numbers. Against Nate, he simply didn't have the success he had against other centers.

The_Jamal
05-16-2014, 02:23 PM
Voting Roshtown here. Horrible match-up for San Jose. I just don't see how they deal with Penny and Kobe in the back-court and Webb would absolutely **** on Pau Gasol. While Wilt is the best player in the series, I like the match-up of Thurmond on him, who's had some success against him.

Sadds The Gr8
05-16-2014, 02:29 PM
Roshtown pretty easily to me, they shouldve been a higher seed and I think I had them 3 in the conference.

Ebbs
05-16-2014, 02:32 PM
Rosh has a very good team.

I just really like this San Jose team. Their post passing with Pau and Wilt is phenomenal. Finely and Hill on the perimeter who could both shoot and slash. DJ making it tough on Penny.

Ebbs
05-16-2014, 02:32 PM
I think Kobe has a fourty point series but it's not enough.

The_Jamal
05-16-2014, 02:45 PM
Rosh has a very good team.

I just really like this San Jose team. Their post passing with Pau and Wilt is phenomenal. Finely and Hill on the perimeter who could both shoot and slash. DJ making it tough on Penny.

Roshtown has excellent answers for the top 2 options for San Jose with Jones on Hill and Thurmond on Wilt. And the biggest mis-match, quite possibly in the entire 1st round of the playoffs, is Kobe matched up with Finley. If they switch DJ on Kobe, then I trust Penny just as much to tear Finley up. I also think Webb is a horrible match-up for Pau on both ends. I don't see Pau being able to handle the physicality of Webb

Ebbs
05-16-2014, 03:08 PM
I'd imagine DJ Tony Allen would see 20ish minutes a night together...

Matter.
05-16-2014, 03:09 PM
First of All, Grant hill will be guarding Kobe and Dennis Johnson will be guarding Penny, alternating each time. So Finley will be guarding Jones, Secondly, even if hill gets in foul trouble we can bring in another defender to defend Kobe as Tony Allen.

Also, Webber is not destroying Pau or my PF position as Debu and Pau still can give him fits.

Lucky.
05-16-2014, 03:26 PM
I really like Rosh's team and could have, or probably should have ranked him higher than what I did. I also feel he matches up very well here.

Leaning Roshtown.

roshan3ai
05-16-2014, 03:33 PM
First of All, Grant hill will be guarding Kobe and Dennis Johnson will be guarding Penny, alternating each time. So Finley will be guarding Jones, Secondly, even if hill gets in foul trouble we can bring in another defender to defend Kobe as Tony Allen.

Also, Webber is not destroying Pau or my PF position as Debu and Pau still can give him fits.

Finley guarding Jones is still a disaster. Jones has a huge size advantage and is not a scoring liablity whatsoever. He averaged 15 points per game and lead the league in TS% a couple of years. Finley would have loads of trouble downlow with Jones, especially on the boards as well as with his cuts to the hoop because of his size.

If Tony Allen is in the game, then all the better for me. I would love to see your team go 4 on 5 on offense. With Kobe on DJ, Jones on Hill and Thurmond on Wilt, you decimate your scoring even further by plugging in Allen. He also destroys your spacing, clogging the paint for Wilt.

Hill guarding Kobe is also still a big mismatch. Kobe is much quicker than Hill and Hill would have a tough time keeping Kobe in front of him. Kobe's getting to the line 10 times per game in his prime. Seeing Hill guard him and get into foul trouble is a dream come true for us, because with Hill out of the game, it's again becomes much tougher for San Jose to score.

roshan3ai
05-16-2014, 03:39 PM
I'd imagine DJ Tony Allen would see 20ish minutes a night together...

If they're on the court at the same time, then where's the perimeter scoring coming from? Hill has his hands full guarded by Jones and DJ has Kobe on him. I just don't see San Jose matching up, because they'll have to make pure offense-defense subsitutions. For example, will Steve Kerr see minutes when I have Kobe and Penny both in? Because if he does, he's guarding on of Kobe and Penny and that's disastrous for San Jose.

D1JM
05-16-2014, 04:03 PM
if Dennis Johnson was able to guard Magic, then i am pretty sure he would be able to guard a guy like penny and kobe.

and nate might of slowed down wilt towards the end of his career, but wilt still dominated the boards. Nate's success against wilt was more towards the end of his career.

D1JM
05-16-2014, 04:19 PM
our starting five can also dish out the ball. finley had a high 5 assist per game one year, wilt 8 assist per game , hill 7 etc.. so our offense woulnt have trouble passing the ball side to side to find the open man neither.

Matter.
05-16-2014, 05:10 PM
The logic your going by on bobby Jones is that he has 9 all first defensive teams, and that he will shutdown Hill so if we put debu on Kobe and his 6 defensive teams Kobe will be shut Down?

Matter.
05-16-2014, 05:59 PM
bump

Shammyguy3
05-16-2014, 06:02 PM
I'm really split on this matchup

The_Jamal
05-16-2014, 06:20 PM
This was the match-up I predicted to have the best chance at an upset, before the playoffs started. I just see Penny-Kobe as too much for San Jose to deal with and I love the idea of Jones and Thurmond being able to play good physical D on San Jose's top offensive options.

Matter.
05-16-2014, 06:43 PM
This was the match-up I predicted to have the best chance at an upset, before the playoffs started. I just see Penny-Kobe as too much for San Jose to deal with and I love the idea of Jones and Thurmond being able to play good physical D on San Jose's top offensive options.

I don't understand how Dennis Johnson is being underrated and how hill and wilt are being so underrated

Sadds The Gr8
05-16-2014, 10:52 PM
Lol I didn't even know d1rose was in this game

D1JM
05-16-2014, 10:56 PM
Lol I didn't even know d1rose was in this game

i am too busy with the sim. dont really have a lot of time :)

D1JM
05-16-2014, 11:03 PM
I don't understand how Dennis Johnson is being underrated and how hill and wilt are being so underrated

especially Dennis Johnson. He would have no trouble guarding a guy like Penny.


Indisputably, DJ was the greatest defensive guard of his era: Nine straight All-Defensive appearances from 1979 to 1987 (six on the first team, three on the second team), and that doesn't even begin to describe how destructive he played on that end (only Scottie Pippen rivaled his talent for completely disrupting another team's offense). When the Celtics traded for him before the '84 season, they did it because they needed someone to shut down Philadelphia's Andrew Toney, who tortured them in the playoffs every spring. As it turned out, the Sixers never beat them again. Also, every Celtics fan remembers how the 1984 Finals turned when DJ demanded to guard Magic before Game 4 (Magic was a shell for the rest of the series), or DJ's singular obliteration of Robert Reid in the '86 Finals. An all-defensive team for the past 30 years cannot include anyone other than these five guys: DJ, Payton, Pippen, Ben Wallace and Hakeem. Nobody else qualifies.

He averaged 17.3 points, 5.6 assists and 4.3 rebounds for his playoff career -- including an astonishing 23-game run for a banged-up '87 Celtics team on which he averaged 19 points, 9 assists and a whopping 42 minutes a game guarding the likes of John Lucas, Sidney Moncrief, Isiah Thomas, Vinnie Johnson and Magic.

He splashed onto the scene as a high-flying, physical 2-guard for the Sonics, evolved into more of a scorer for the Suns, then reincarnated himself as a heady point guard for the Celtics, peaking as the ringleader of a loaded '86 team that scored a jaw-dropping 114 points a game. He could guard anyone shorter than 6-foot-9 and lock them down. He was such an intelligent player that Bird and DJ had a secret ESP play for six straight years, in which Bird would linger near the basket like he was waiting for someone to set him a pick, then DJ would whip a pass by the defender's ears and Bird would catch it at the last possible second for a layup (and the only way that play happened was if they locked eyes).


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070222

how can you say that dennis was an alright defender? Dennis was good defensively. one of the best

Matter.
05-16-2014, 11:25 PM
Bump!!

roshan3ai
05-17-2014, 10:51 AM
Bump

roshan3ai
05-17-2014, 11:48 AM
I don't understand how Dennis Johnson is being underrated and how hill and wilt are being so underrated

Thing is, you guys end up with a mismatch no matter what with whoever Finley is guarding. You also are risking severe foul trouble for Hill if he's guarding Kobe. Hill is a good defender, but Kobe scores in a plethora of ways and gets to the line at will. Hill has to be superman by being asked to limit Kobe while being a second option on offense while being guarded by Bobby Jones every night of the series.

I don't think Dennis Johnson is being underrated though. He's a great defender, and I even said in my writeup that he will make it tough on whoever he guards. But realize that Penny in his prime was also an insanely good point guard. He led that Magic team past Jordan's Bulls in his second year en route to a finals appearance. And you know he was going to be seeing a heavy dose of Jordan/Pippen that series.

Matter.
05-17-2014, 03:03 PM
Thing is, you guys end up with a mismatch no matter what with whoever Finley is guarding. You also are risking severe foul trouble for Hill if he's guarding Kobe. Hill is a good defender, but Kobe scores in a plethora of ways and gets to the line at will. Hill has to be superman by being asked to limit Kobe while being a second option on offense while being guarded by Bobby Jones every night of the series.

I don't think Dennis Johnson is being underrated though. He's a great defender, and I even said in my writeup that he will make it tough on whoever he guards. But realize that Penny in his prime was also an insanely good point guard. He led that Magic team past Jordan's Bulls in his second year en route to a finals appearance. And you know he was going to be seeing a heavy dose of Jordan/Pippen that series.


But you fail to realize Magic was Smothered by Dennis and Penny is no Magic which we all know, Which is why Penny would be smothered and won't be as effective and would we would be taking out your Second scoring option.

Also PRIME GRANT HILL, is a mini Lebron. 20-7-6 with 1.5spg, is all the we would need with PRIME Wilt getting his 30+ on 50% EVEN AGAINST THURMOND. Also how are you stopping our ball movement, we have 4 amazing ball handlers, and passers in Hill,Wilt,Pau and Dennis. This is a grit and grind series but even though Thurmond had "Success" against a Wilt that is fading, but I doubt he could stop a Prime Wilt.

xxplayerxx23
05-17-2014, 03:10 PM
I don't get why you speak on magic. Magic was the best but magic wasn't known to score the way penny was. I voted San Jose because I feel like you have hill, you have Allen to slow Kobe up a bit, while rosh has a guy to give wilt trouble you aren't stoping wilt with man coverage. While webber would score on pau they have bench players like Dave debu to help out and webber wasn't a defensive player to stop pau. Prime pau was an animal offensively. Finley can spot up, They have amazing passing with Johnson hill pau wilt being good passers and they have another ball handler in hill to give Johnson a break. The series was real
Tight for me but I want San Jose in 7.

Sadds The Gr8
05-17-2014, 03:20 PM
damn, I remember when these games got like 50+ votes per matchup...nobody cares to vote anymore

Ebbs
05-17-2014, 03:50 PM
I'm telling you twitter voting wise would save these games.

Eliminates gm bias as well.

Shammyguy3
05-17-2014, 04:14 PM
how could either GM make their case for why they should advance though? Posting it on twitter would take out write-ups and strategies each GM has.

roshan3ai
05-17-2014, 05:22 PM
But you fail to realize Magic was Smothered by Dennis and Penny is no Magic which we all know, Which is why Penny would be smothered and won't be as effective and would we would be taking out your Second scoring option.

Also PRIME GRANT HILL, is a mini Lebron. 20-7-6 with 1.5spg, is all the we would need with PRIME Wilt getting his 30+ on 50% EVEN AGAINST THURMOND. Also how are you stopping our ball movement, we have 4 amazing ball handlers, and passers in Hill,Wilt,Pau and Dennis. This is a grit and grind series but even though Thurmond had "Success" against a Wilt that is fading, but I doubt he could stop a Prime Wilt.

Wait if I'm using your logic, then I can use this fact: Kareem, who is better than Wilt, never shot above 50% in any of his playoff series' versus Nate Thurmond. This is when Nate and KAJ were in their primes, not when Nate was only in his 3rd/4th year.

Wilt's strong shooting percentages came when Nate was still extremely young. And even so, he did limit Wilt's scoring production massively, so I don't know where you're getting 30+ and 50%. He never averaged 50%. AND you're playing a much slower pace because you're a halfcourt team. So I don't know where 30+ points is coming from when you have less shots per game and he's never done it playing a faster pace versus a young Nate.

If you think Hill is going to stop Kobe AND put up those numbers on one of the best defensive forwards on the game, then I don't know what to say. That's ridiculous. He is gonna see foul trouble during this series guarding Kobe. Kobe is definitely going to ware him out this series, because again it's a nitty gritty series. Bobby Jones also has the size to disrupt Hill's penetration and passing.

Bobby Jones averaged 2 steals per game, Kobe averaged 1.6 steals, Penny averaged 2 steals per game, Webber averaged 1.5 steals, and even Lever off the bench averaged 2.7 steals per game. If there's one thing that Roshtown does on D, it's disrupt passing lanes. All of these guys are extremely active. Not to mention, Webber's physicality down low is going to make it tough on Pau in terms of passing and getting in position.

We could also ask you the same question about passing. Thurmond averaged 3.7 assists, Webber averaged 4.1, Jones averaged 3.5, Kobe averaged 5.1, Hardaway averaged 6.7, and Lever averaged 7.4. This team has some of the best ball movement in the game, and I don't really see many people disrupting our ball movement. Johnson is a great man to man defender but was never a leader in the steals department. Finley and Gasol aren't big names in the steals department either. Hill is the best one with a career high of 1.8 steals per game. If anything, we would disrupt San Jose's passing much more than you guys would disrupt ours.

roshan3ai
05-17-2014, 05:24 PM
Also, in close games down the stretch, we might even hack-a-Wilt. Guy is a career 51% free throw shooter and was over 60% only once.

Matter.
05-17-2014, 05:50 PM
Wait if I'm using your logic, then I can use this fact: Kareem, who is better than Wilt, never shot above 50% in any of his playoff series' versus Nate Thurmond. This is when Nate and KAJ were in their primes, not when Nate was only in his 3rd/4th year.

Wilt's strong shooting percentages came when Nate was still extremely young. And even so, he did limit Wilt's scoring production massively, so I don't know where you're getting 30+ and 50%. He never averaged 50%. AND you're playing a much slower pace because you're a halfcourt team. So I don't know where 30+ points is coming from when you have less shots per game and he's never done it playing a faster pace versus a young Nate.

If you think Hill is going to stop Kobe AND put up those numbers on one of the best defensive forwards on the game, then I don't know what to say. That's ridiculous. He is gonna see foul trouble during this series guarding Kobe. Kobe is definitely going to ware him out this series, because again it's a nitty gritty series. Bobby Jones also has the size to disrupt Hill's penetration and passing.

Bobby Jones averaged 2 steals per game, Kobe averaged 1.6 steals, Penny averaged 2 steals per game, Webber averaged 1.5 steals, and even Lever off the bench averaged 2.7 steals per game. If there's one thing that Roshtown does on D, it's disrupt passing lanes. All of these guys are extremely active. Not to mention, Webber's physicality down low is going to make it tough on Pau in terms of passing and getting in position.

We could also ask you the same question about passing. Thurmond averaged 3.7 assists, Webber averaged 4.1, Jones averaged 3.5, Kobe averaged 5.1, Hardaway averaged 6.7, and Lever averaged 7.4. This team has some of the best ball movement in the game, and I don't really see many people disrupting our ball movement. Johnson is a great man to man defender but was never a leader in the steals department. Finley and Gasol aren't big names in the steals department either. Hill is the best one with a career high of 1.8 steals per game. If anything, we would disrupt San Jose's passing much more than you guys would disrupt ours.

YOu do know the times when Nate did defend Wilt it was not one on one it was a team effort he would be getting triple teamed or double teamed, and unlike Wilt's 1960's teams Wilt actually has players who he could pass too and get them open IF YOU plan on doubling him. Nate Thurmond did not defend Wilt 1 on 1 all the time it was mostly double and triple teams that were on him.

Same could be said about Kobe and Jones, do you think Bobby will get his 15ppg while guarding a PRIME HILL, and how does Kobe stay up defending DJ while he is running around.

While you bring up your bench, my bench also does play nitty gritty. If we put Dave in, he is going to make Webber work as you should know, Dave plays tough and gritty defense. Also, you may have Fat Lever but we also have Tony Allen, a elite wing defender and a DPOY in Marc Gasol who can also play gritty defense as shown in Memphis' games.Plus I do not see anyone on your bench capable of what Toni Kukoc and Steve Kerr, and Crawford can do, which is score or bring momentum for us.

Wilt had seasons where he averaged 5.2,7.8,8.6 apg, Pau averages about 3.5apg, HILL averages 6apg, Finley about 4apg, and DJ averaged 7apg in his prime, alongside we also have a couple good ball handlers deep into our bench in Crawford, Kukoc and Gasol who could pass easily. Also I do not see how Thurmond is outrebounding Wilt, he couldn't do in the time of which Wilt was receding, so I do not see how he will with PRIME WILT. Also you lack 3 point shooting in your lineup outside of Kobe.

Also I do not see Penny Hardaway as effective as you think he would be. DJ is going to SHUT DOWN PENNY.


In the 1978 NBA Finals, Johnson blocked seven shots in a game. The NBA Guide has DJ as 10th all time in blocked shots in the NBA Finals, tied with likely 2010 inductee Scottie Pippen. None of the nine ahead of him is a guard. DJ was 6-foot-4!

roshan3ai
05-17-2014, 06:06 PM
YOu do know the times when Nate did defend Wilt it was not one on one it was a team effort he would be getting triple teamed or double teamed, and unlike Wilt's 1960's teams Wilt actually has players who he could pass too and get them open IF YOU plan on doubling him. Nate Thurmond did not defend Wilt 1 on 1 all the time it was mostly double and triple teams that were on him.

Same could be said about Kobe and Jones, do you think Bobby will get his 15ppg while guarding a PRIME HILL, and how does Kobe stay up defending DJ while he is running around.

While you bring up your bench, my bench also does play nitty gritty. If we put Dave in, he is going to make Webber work as you should know, Dave plays tough and gritty defense. Also, you may have Fat Lever but we also have Tony Allen, a elite wing defender and a DPOY in Marc Gasol who can also play gritty defense as shown in Memphis' games.Plus I do not see anyone on your bench capable of what Toni Kukoc and Steve Kerr, and Crawford can do, which is score or bring momentum for us.

Wilt had seasons where he averaged 5.2,7.8,8.6 apg, Pau averages about 3.5apg, HILL averages 6apg, Finley about 4apg, and DJ averaged 7apg in his prime, alongside we also have a couple good ball handlers deep into our bench in Crawford, Kukoc and Gasol who could pass easily. Also I do not see how Thurmond is outrebounding Wilt, he couldn't do in the time of which Wilt was receding, so I do not see how he will with PRIME WILT. Also you lack 3 point shooting in your lineup outside of Kobe.

Also I do not see Penny Hardaway as effective as you think he would be. DJ is going to SHUT DOWN PENNY.

Where exactly are you getting this information that Wilt was double and triple teamed by one of the best one on one defenders of all time? I don't plan on doubling him. It seems that you forgot he played with Baylor and West at one point in his career and ended up with a whopping 2 rings.

Bobby Jones is my fifth option. I'll sacrifice his scoring in order to shut down Hill. He's been an energy player his whole career. He will still be cutting, grabbing loose balls and winning on the boards versus Finley.

Dave plays very good defense. But your bench has one dimensional players. Dave is a good rebounder and defender, but a poor offensive weapon. He's extremely inefficient. Kerr is a good shooter but he can't defend Penny or Kobe. Gasol is a strong defender but also a mediocre at best rebounder (horrible rebounder for this game). He's going to get destroyed by a guy like Thurmond or Jones. To space the floor we have 3 40%+ three point shooters in Okur, Armstrong and Person. Fat Lever can do it all as seen by his 19-9-8 line and McDyess is one of the best all around backup bigs in the game. When you put Kukoc, Kerr and Crawford in, you also have to worry about who those defensive liablities are gonna guard on the other end. Because Lever is another guy off the bench who is far from a scrub, he is all over the place.

I didn't question your ball movement. I questioned your ability to stop mine as opposed to my ability to stop yours. And I have guys that play the passing lanes much better than you do. We both have teams with strong passing big men.

If you can just write off Penny, who again got past Scottie and MJ, as being shut down by DJ, then I'll go ahead and say Hill and DJ are going to be completely shut down. Then it comes down to the fact that Webber wins his matchup versus Pau and Bobby Jones winning his matchup versus Finley. Hill is a good defender, but he's nothing great. Kobe will still have his way against this defense. Nate has a much better shot at limiting Wilt than Hill does of limiting Kobe.

Matter.
05-17-2014, 06:15 PM
Kobe will get his way no matter who is the defender. But your other 4 players wont get as much.

WILL ADD more but i have to go so ill respond in a few hours

xxplayerxx23
05-17-2014, 07:26 PM
Rosh I get what you are saying but steals don't really tell you everything. In no shape or form
Is webber a good defender. Wilt was still pretty efficient and rebounded well against Nate. Dennis was a very strong man to man defender he will make things tougher on penny, I won't go as far as shut down but will make him work. Hill and Allen should bother Kobe as well. Like I said this is a close matchup I just feel like a couple things here lean towards San Jose

roshan3ai
05-17-2014, 08:55 PM
Rosh I get what you are saying but steals don't really tell you everything. In no shape or form
Is webber a good defender. Wilt was still pretty efficient and rebounded well against Nate. Dennis was a very strong man to man defender he will make things tougher on penny, I won't go as far as shut down but will make him work. Hill and Allen should bother Kobe as well. Like I said this is a close matchup I just feel like a couple things here lean towards San Jose

What? Did you read anything I said in context? The steals numbers just prove I have the ability to disrupt his ball movement.

And Webber is no shape or form a good defender? What?

xxplayerxx23
05-17-2014, 09:46 PM
What? Did you read anything I said in context? The steals numbers just prove I have the ability to disrupt his ball movement.

And Webber is no shape or form a good defender? What?


I read it, and no webber is not a good defender.

D1JM
05-18-2014, 12:56 AM
Wilt's strong shooting percentages came when Nate was still extremely young. And even so, he did limit Wilt's scoring production massively, so I don't know where you're getting 30+ and 50%. He never averaged 50%.

where are you getting your numbers from that wilt NEVER avg'd 50% against nate? he did. of course nate was a great man to man defender and took wilt out of his comfort zone. However, if wilt didn't like a shot he would look to pass.


í67 Finals (vs Nate Thurmond)

17.6 points, 28.5 rebounds, 6.8 assists on 56% field goal percentage yeah he never avg over 50% against nate :rolleyes:

in addition


Coach Alex Hannum asked from Wilt to cut down his scoring and to pass more and play aggressive defense more. In other words, he was asked to use his skills, physicality and intelligence in a way that would make him dominant on both sides and make damage to opposing teams in a team way. The result?



He didnít win the scoring title after seven years of dominance, but instead led the league in two several categories, made excellent impact, led Philly to the best record and easily won his second consecutive MVP award in a row.

http://******************/best-ever-series-why-wilt-chamberlain-has-a-great-case-as-the-greatest-of-all-time-official-h-n-article/

and how exactly do you know that bobby jones will shut down hill if pippen couldn't?hill had a .488FG% against pippen. if that's shutting down, than i'll take it.

Ebbs
05-18-2014, 12:59 AM
Bobby Jones played power forward. I highly doubt he'd have the lateral speed to play a second tier wing. Not sure why everyone thinks he's this elite wing defender

D1JM
05-18-2014, 01:13 AM
Bobby Jones played power forward. I highly doubt he'd have the lateral speed to play a second tier wing. Not sure why everyone thinks he's this elite wing defender

i mean, i can put dave on kobe and he will get shut down right?

D1JM
05-18-2014, 01:31 AM
The rookie Chamberlain then shocked Warriors' fans by saying he was thinking of retiring. He was tired of being double- and triple-teamed, and of teams coming down on him with hard fouls. Chamberlain feared he might lose his cool one day.[2] As Celtics forward Heinsohn said, himself no stranger to dirty play against Chamberlain: "Half the fouls against him were hard fouls ... he took the most brutal pounding of any player ever".

In Chamberlain's first year, and for several years afterward, opposing teams simply didn't know how to handle him. Tom Heinsohn, the great Celtics forward who later became a coach and broadcaster, said Boston was one of the first clubs to apply a team-defense concept to stop Chamberlain. "We went for his weakness," Heinsohn told the Philadelphia Daily News in 1991, "tried to send him to the foul line, and in doing that he took the most brutal pounding of any player ever.. I hear people today talk about hard fouls. Half the fouls against him were hard fouls."


http://www.nba.com/history/players/chamberlain_bio.html

D1JM
05-18-2014, 01:32 AM
double post

roshan3ai
05-18-2014, 02:00 AM
where are you getting your numbers from that wilt NEVER avg'd 50% against nate? he did. of course nate was a great man to man defender and took wilt out of his comfort zone. However, if wilt didn't like a shot he would look to pass.

yeah he never avg over 50% against nate :rolleyes:

I misspoke, my bad. I meant he never averaged 30 PPG versus Nate in any series with a high pace and ridiculous minutes. KAJ never averaged over 50% in a playoff series. I misspoke though.






http://******************/best-ever-series-why-wilt-chamberlain-has-a-great-case-as-the-greatest-of-all-time-official-h-n-article/


What's this trying to prove?



and how exactly do you know that bobby jones will shut down hill if pippen couldn't?hill had a .488FG% against pippen. if that's shutting down, than i'll take it.

Again, this logic can be used for literally anything. In his prime, Nate forced KAJ into series after series of sub-50% field goal percentages. KAJ>Wilt. So I can just say that Nate would shut down Wilt right? Penny beat an MJ-Pippen team 4-2. He was guarded by Pippen and MJ. So I can assume because he was great that series that DJ wouldn't stop him at all right?

Jones is 6-9, 210 btw. I'm pretty sure he guarded both forward positions extremely well and would do a good job on Hill who has rather large size (6-8, 225).

D1JM
05-18-2014, 02:27 AM
I misspoke, my bad. I meant he never averaged 30 PPG versus Nate in any series with a high pace and ridiculous minutes. KAJ never averaged over 50% in a playoff series. I misspoke though.






What's this trying to prove?



Again, this logic can be used for literally anything. In his prime, Nate forced KAJ into series after series of sub-50% field goal percentages. KAJ>Wilt. So I can just say that Nate would shut down Wilt right? Penny beat an MJ-Pippen team 4-2. He was guarded by Pippen and MJ. So I can assume because he was great that series that DJ wouldn't stop him at all right?

Jones is 6-9, 210 btw. I'm pretty sure he guarded both forward positions extremely well and would do a good job on Hill who has rather large size (6-8, 225).

why not? that's what you are basing your argument on. what does hill being 225 mean? that he was slow?

roshan3ai
05-18-2014, 10:41 AM
why not? that's what you are basing your argument on. what does hill being 225 mean? that he was slow?

I'm only doing the same thing you're doing to prove that we can do that argument for days and by that logic, nobody would score on anybody.

Nah, not saying Hill is slow. But saying that it's not a stretch to think that Jones has the lateral quickness to keep up with Hill, since Jones is basically a current small forward's size.

KnicksorBust
05-18-2014, 04:28 PM
Before Jones went to Philly he used to guard guys like Julius Erving so I don't think it's a stretch at all to play him at SF.

KnicksorBust
05-18-2014, 04:30 PM
REALLY liked both of these teams. Would not have been surprised to see Roshtown win and go on a run but looks like it wasn't in the cards. Love the Wilt team. That team is tailor-made for the triangle.

Sadds The Gr8
05-18-2014, 05:43 PM
Surprised roshtown lost in the 1st round. I think current form has influence in this game cuz I couldn't see Rosh losing this matchup 2 years ago when Kobe was healthy

Iggz53
05-18-2014, 09:19 PM
I also don't think too many people know just how good of a defender Bobby Jones was