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View Full Version : NBA All-Time Redraft (3) Rochester vs (6) Lincoln



Matter.
05-16-2014, 11:10 AM
Hello Everyone. Welcome to the NBA All-time redraft playoffs. These will be a battle between two made up teams from our host of GM’s in to see who reigns superiority over all of basketball. Please read the write-ups and vote for who you think would win in a 7 game series.


Rochester Has Homecourt Advantage!

Rochester Depth Chart
PG: Tim Hardaway - Maurice Cheeks
SG: Sidney Moncrief - Richard Hamilton
SF: Chris Mullin - Rashard Lewis - Gus Johnson
PF: Karl Malone - Tom Chambers
C: Bill Walton - Shawn Bradley - Manute Bol

vs

Lincoln Depth Chart
PG: Walt Frazier (39) | Bob Cousy (9)
SG: Clyde Drexler (38) | Allan Houston (10)
SF: James Worthy (35) | Sean Elliott (7) | Stephen Jackson (6)
PF: Dennis Rodman (37) | Paul Silas (11) | Al Horford
C: Bill Laimbeer (35) | Al Horford (10) | Rony Seikaly (3)


Lincoln Write Up:

Matchups:
Walt Frazier (6’4, 200 lbs) vs Tim Hardaway (6’0, 175 lbs)
Clyde Drexler (6’7, 210) vs Sidney Moncrief (6’3, 180)
James Worthy (6’9, 225) vs Chris Mullin (6’6, 200)
Dennis Rodman (6’7, 210) vs Karl Malone (6’9, 250)
Bill Laimbeer (6’11, 245) vs Bill Walton (6’11 210)

How we stop Rochester:
Rochester’s #1 option is Karl Malone, our #1 defender is Dennis Rodman (2x DPOY). Rodman will guard Karl and frustrate him with his pressure. Tim Hardaway is a great point guard but is he John Stockton? No, and he won’t be able to get Malone the ball the way Stockton could. He especially won’t be able to because he will have the greatest defensive point guard of all-time on him in the form of Walt Frazier. Sidney Moncrief is a great defender but with Clyde Drexler on him he won’t be much of a threat on offense, especially since he was a well below average 3 point shooter. Chris Mullin vs. James Worthy is next matchup and Mullin was a great shooter and scorer but Worthy was one of the most athletic SFs of his time and he will be able to pressure Mullin while staying in front of him. Finally Bill Walton vs. Bill Laimbeer, Laimbeer will be physical with Walton and frustrate him just like Rodman will do to Malone. Walton will get some points but we are the one team in the playoffs that they can’t bully inside. Our superior length and speed will also force turnovers. And is a seven-game series we would wear down their post players.

How we score on Rochester:
Clyde Drexler has Sidney Moncrief on him and Sidney is a great defender, Clyde will still get his because he is 4 inches taller than Moncrief and 30 pounds heavier while still being just as athletic, but Moncrief will frustrate him just like Rodman will Karl. We however will run this interior oriented team into the ground. We have speed at every spot except Laimbeer and we will use it to beat Malone and Walton down the court and use Worthy and Drexler’s finishing ability over their smaller players. When in the half-court we will use Laimbeer’s shooting to pull out Walton and Rodman also be cleared out on the other side of the lane to occupy Malone and we will post up and play through “Big Game” James Worthy (it is the playoffs after all). James is 6’9 225, while Mullin is 6’6 200. Mullin simply can’t guard him. Worthy has great handles so he won’t be stealing it and if they rotate and double he is an outstanding passer. Walt Frazier will also be able to get to the rim and score with his mismatch. Frazier is 6’4 200, while Hardaway is 6’0 175. And Walton won’t help or else Laimbeer will kill them will open jumpers.

Matter.
05-16-2014, 11:30 AM
Will Wait for Rochester before voting

todu82
05-16-2014, 12:28 PM
Lincoln.

Ebbs
05-16-2014, 12:41 PM
Rochester by a hair. Sucks Lincoln shouldn't have been a six seed.

Sadds The Gr8
05-16-2014, 01:02 PM
Really like both teams. Tough choice but I think Lincoln by a hair, in game 7

Lucky.
05-16-2014, 01:03 PM
Rochester’s #1 option is Karl Malone, our #1 defender is Dennis Rodman (2x DPOY). Rodman will guard Karl and frustrate him with his pressure.

In Karl Malone's H2H career vs Rodman he averaged 27 PPG on 53% shooting. I am by no means questioning Rodman's defensive ability, but I'll taker my chances in a seven game series. Especially if you want to talk about the size being a difference in your write-up, as Rodman is giving up 40 pounds and is considered undersized. I don't believe in this size makes a difference, just looks at who's been guarding Kevin Durant these playoffs, but I'm just saying.


Tim Hardaway is a great point guard but is he John Stockton? No, and he won’t be able to get Malone the ball the way Stockton could. He especially won’t be able to because he will have the greatest defensive point guard of all-time on him in the form of Walt Frazier.

Tim Hardaway doesn't have to be John Stockton in this series, or in the playoffs in general for this team to be successful. That's terrible logic. I'm sorry I couldn't get multiple players that were some of the GOAT at their respectful positions in an ATRD. There were what, 25-26 other teams drafting? Still, Tim Hardaway is a phenomenal ball handler and distributor that's capable of spacing the floor. And it's not like he'll be the only player in my lineup distributing the ball. Sidney Moncrief is very capable as well.


Sidney Moncrief is a great defender but with Clyde Drexler on him he won’t be much of a threat on offense, especially since he was a well below average 3 point shooter.

Sidney Moncrief is arguably my fourth option on offense. A fourth option that for his career had a .591 TS% and for a good portion had above a .600 TS%. This is something no one in your starting five accomplished. And you seem to be forgetting there is not one person in your starting five that is a consistent 3pt shooter. Drexler and Laimbeer for their careers were around the 31-32% as far as 3pt shooting goes, which isn't terrible, but far from reliable.

I'll try and get to the rest later, but for now this is all I can provide. Another thing that I would like to point out considering it was never mentioned, was bench roles.

xxplayerxx23
05-16-2014, 01:18 PM
Interesting matchup I probably won't vote since I face winner

The_Jamal
05-16-2014, 02:24 PM
Rochester. One of my favorite teams to make the finals in this conference.

Ebbs
05-16-2014, 02:30 PM
I feel like AP always makes a killer team in this game that gets undervalued. However just drew a tough matchup here. Playing a better front court and Squid on Drexler is a solid contester.

roshan3ai
05-16-2014, 03:47 PM
Rochester. One of my favorite teams to make the finals in this conference.
Yeah I had them as the best team in the conference. I'm the idiot that forgot to rank Los Santos, but I actually think it's debatable between them and Rochester. Rochester advances here though, I hate Lincoln's lack of post scoring.

PatsSoxKnicks
05-16-2014, 04:51 PM
I really underestimated Rochester in my rankings (definitely underseeded them) but I had them and Lincoln as very close so definitely an interesting matchup here. One thing that I think will hurt Rochester is the lack of postseason success of their players and I unfairly punished them for that in my rankings (which admittedly were crap because I had no time to do them properly). However, it is an issue that can't be ignored. So I'd like to see Rochester address that. Because otherwise, the team fits very well together.

AP=MVP
05-16-2014, 05:16 PM
I still want to know how they would contend with all my length on the perimeter and how Chris Mullin is suppose to guard James Worthy.

Shammyguy3
05-16-2014, 05:18 PM
I had Rochester first in my rankings, and am heavily leaning towards them right now. But I will give both teams their due diligence in heated debate before making a vote.

Raps08-09 Champ
05-16-2014, 05:19 PM
What were Malone's stats against Rodman in the finals?

AP=MVP
05-16-2014, 05:19 PM
I feel like AP always makes a killer team in this game that gets undervalued. However just drew a tough matchup here. Playing a better front court and Squid on Drexler is a solid contester.

I feel the same way lol. In a 7 game, knock down drag out series I don't think they hold up as well to our physicality and I have maybe the most clutch performer of all time in a huge mismatch situation

AP=MVP
05-16-2014, 05:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sXhKrn2uWg

Rodman will be doing a lot of this kind of stuff, he will be working to piss Malone off as much as possible and he will always be pressuring him and forcing him to not puttee ball on the floor and also use his incredibly strong base to prevent Karl from getting to his spots (as he does with Shaq in this video repeatedly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg3BiOw4TWo ). And Hardway is a great player but he never faced a defender like Walt Frazier for a full series and he will not set Malone up like Stockton can (no one can do that) so it limits Malone to at least a degree.

AP=MVP
05-16-2014, 05:53 PM
Also please tell me how you stop Worthy. Both Mullin and Lewis will get abused especially in a playoff scenario when Big Game James is always at his finest.

AP=MVP
05-16-2014, 06:08 PM
What were Malone's stats against Rodman in the finals?

He averaged 25 a game against the Worm in the playoffs which is impressive till you realize he took 20.6 shots a game to get there. He also turned the ball over 3 times a game, and without Stockton setting him up right at the rim, we expect that number to increase. Malone will get his but Worm will make him work for it and he won't be efficient

Jets012
05-16-2014, 06:42 PM
I just want to bring up 3 main points, that in my opinion, will be the difference of this matchup:

1) Lincoln's Lack of Floor Spacing
I'm surprised this hasn't been critiqued or touched upon yet. Arguably one of Lincoln's major flaws is their lack of 3 point shooting. Both Worthy and Fraizer can not be counted upon to stretch the floor and hit a 3. In fact, in Worthy's first 7 seasons, he had just made 5 3 pointers. While Laimbeer is decent for his position, he can not be counted on to hit multiple 3s in a game. Drexler is the only guy in the starting line-up who has had a considerable amount of 3 point attempts. Drexler, however, is also not a great shooter as he was just a mediocre 31.8% from downtown. If you put Houston in the game, the offense will struggle to score, because mostly like if you put Houston in, you're taking one of Drexler/Worthy out who are their two top offensive weapons.

2) Lincoln's Lack of Offense
Lincoln's Lack of Offense is also concerning. Currently constructed, they don't have much of an offense down-low. Neither Rodman nor Laimbeer are major threats offensively. Laimbeer was a solid offensive player, but Walton is one of the better defensive Centers of all time so he will struggle to score. Drexler is their #1 option, but Moncrief is a 2x Defensive Player of the Year. While we don't expect Moncrief to fully shut down Drexler, we expect him limit Drexler. Drexler only averaged 18.6 PPG against Moncrief in his career on below average efficiency. I don't know if Fraizer and Worthy are able to pick up the slack and keep up with the players on our side, especially when we have Mo Cheeks and Rip Hamilton off the bench who were both solid defenders.

3) Rochester's Underrated Passing
As currently constructed, we feel that our starting five is one of the better passing teams in this game. While Tim Hardaway might not have been a Steve Nash like floor setter, he still was able to put up an assist percentage of over 40 multiple seasons in his career. In addition, every other starter on our team is above average at their position in terms of creating for the players around them. 4 guys on our starting lineup averaged over 5 APG in an individual season in their careers. Bill Walton is regarded as one of the best passing post players of all time. When Karl Malone, who still was above average at his position passing the ball, is the worst passer in you're starting 5, you know you have a team that can create for each other and move off the ball well.

I want to say great job to AP. He built a great team once again. We just feel that our team will be a little too much for Lincoln.

AP=MVP
05-16-2014, 06:50 PM
So your way to stop Worthy is Rip Hamilton? Yes please.

Lucky.
05-17-2014, 01:54 AM
I really underestimated Rochester in my rankings (definitely underseeded them) but I had them and Lincoln as very close so definitely an interesting matchup here. One thing that I think will hurt Rochester is the lack of postseason success of their players and I unfairly punished them for that in my rankings (which admittedly were crap because I had no time to do them properly). However, it is an issue that can't be ignored. So I'd like to see Rochester address that. Because otherwise, the team fits very well together.

I just don't understand this thinking in these games. It's like when you said in the chatzy that you have chemistry because you have some role players that played together. It just makes no sense to me. We picked 19th, built a team many believe to be a great fit with good overall talent, AND we have to pick players that won consistently throughout their careers? These players never played on a team like this. And that goes for every team in this RD. How am I supposed to address, argue or however you would like to call it? Did our best player, Karl Malone, win a title? No. You're asking me to address something that isn't arguable.

However, Bill Walton, our second best player, did win a title. He's the only player in our starting five that did. We also have Maurice Cheeks, Richard Hamilton, Rashard Lewis and Gus Johnson who have won titles. And even though none of those players are starting, they know what it takes to win a championship. I don't want to call that leadership in an ATRD, but if this were a regular RD, that would be considered leadership. Just because our best player and the majority of our starters didn't win, doesn't mean that winning attitude can't be provided elsewhere.

I know, in an ATRD you're bound to have players throughout your team that have won championships. Further proving my point why it's a ridiculous argument (this goes for every team, not just mine). This is all without even considering, like how I pointed out before, that none of these players have played on a team like this in the first place.

Lucky.
05-17-2014, 02:39 AM
Clyde Drexler has Sidney Moncrief on him and Sidney is a great defender, Clyde will still get his because he is 4 inches taller than Moncrief and 30 pounds heavier while still being just as athletic, but Moncrief will frustrate him just like Rodman will Karl.

There's not much to argue here. I mean, Clyde will get his some games. But with a defender like Moncrief on him he's not going to go off and he's going to have to work for everything he gets. Moncrief will make Clyde have some games where Worthy would have to completely take over, which we would be completely fine with. If we can throw Drexler or Worthy off their game and force one of them to have to go off for 45+, we'll gladly take it.


We however will run this interior oriented team into the ground. We have speed at every spot except Laimbeer and we will use it to beat Malone and Walton down the court and use Worthy and Drexler’s finishing ability over their smaller players. When in the half-court we will use Laimbeer’s shooting to pull out Walton and Rodman also be cleared out on the other side of the lane to occupy Malone and we will post up and play through “Big Game” James Worthy (it is the playoffs after all). James is 6’9 225, while Mullin is 6’6 200. Mullin simply can’t guard him. Worthy has great handles so he won’t be stealing it and if they rotate and double he is an outstanding passer. Walt Frazier will also be able to get to the rim and score with his mismatch. Frazier is 6’4 200, while Hardaway is 6’0 175. And Walton won’t help or else Laimbeer will kill them will open jumpers.

We feel Worthy is the one player in this series that we simply can't defend on a consistent basis. That's why we're going to force him to beat us. We can put Moncrief on Drexler while also having the ability to bring Maurice Cheeks off the bench to defend Frazier if Frazier starts to go off. I don't want to sound like some of those people that think if a great defensive player is put on a great offensive player, the offensive player automatically gets completely taken out of the game. But if we have two very good defenders on Drexler and Frazier throughout the series, I just simply don't see a way how Lincoln can beat us offensively. You have no consistent three point shooter in the starting lineup. No offensive post scoring. I mean, you would need both Frazier and Drexler to beat Moncrief and Cheeks (when he's in the game, which he will if Frazier is hot) consistently throughout a seven game series to win, and even then it's no guarantee.

I wanted to touch more so on defense, but as far as your Laimbeer comment about being able to bring out opposing bigs with his jumper, both Malone and Walton were very capable mid-range shooters themselves. So what you can do offensively, so can I.

AP=MVP
05-17-2014, 03:23 AM
OK if Cheeks is playing that further limits their scoring.

We will not rely on 3s. 3s aren't the only way to space the floor, we have some outstanding mid-range shooters. Drexler, Frazier, and Worthy will continue to run in transition and be Rochesters bigs down the floor.

With Cheeks in we are even less scared of Rochester off the dribble and we will enter a full-press against them. Walt Frazier will be unleashed, He will hound Cheeks and Drexler will do the same with Moncrief. Drexler and Frazier's length and superior athleticism will make life very difficult for Rochester and we will turn this game into an uptempo game which really favors us.

Also in the half-court thanks for letting Worthy beat you, he is a total mismatch as you said and since you aren't helping on him he will destroy Mullin and whoever else you got. In our half-court (when you actually manage to slow us down) Worthy will be able to get wherever he wants on Mullin and he is obviously one of the best finishers in league history and one of the biggest performers under the brightest lights.

As shown here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVlkghTbuYY Worthy was normally defended by McHales and Rodmans type players (and he still could score in post) so the opportunity to post a Mullin is something he will very much enjoy.

AP=MVP
05-17-2014, 12:36 PM
I wanted to touch more so on defense, but as far as your Laimbeer comment about being able to bring out opposing bigs with his jumper, both Malone and Walton were very capable mid-range shooters themselves. So what you can do offensively, so can I.

Yeah but it doesn't help you as much as it does me since your guards can't drive on my even with open lane and your guards can't post up, 2 things mine can do all day, especially Worthy.